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‘Tidal wave’ of homeless students hits schools

Mon Mar 2, 2009 7:20 AM EST
education, television, only-on-msnbc-com, school, kids, students, homeless, she, districts, los-angeles�, nine-year-old-daniel-valdez, swiss-family-robinson�
msnbc.com News — By Kari Huus, msnbc.com
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— OXNARD, Calif. - Nine-year-old Daniel Valdez is absorbed in “The Swiss Family Robinson,” the fictional story of a family shipwrecked on a tropical island. In real life, he and his family also are marooned, but there is little romance in their tale of survival in this seaside town northwest of Los Angeles. 

Daniel, his mother and five brothers, ages 1 to 17, live in a garage without heat or running water in a modest, low-lying neighborhood that sits between celebrity-owned mansions in the hills and the Pacific Ocean. Each morning, they arise at 6:30, get dressed and then leave quietly; they return only after dark — a routine born out of the fear that detection could mean the loss of even this humble dwelling.

Daniel and his brothers have been sleeping in the garage for more than a year — members of what school officials and youth advocates say is a rapidly growing legion of homeless youth.

While the problem may be worse in economically stricken regions like Southern California, where foreclosures and job losses are taking a harsh toll on families, anecdotal evidence suggests it is a growing issue nationally and one with serious ramifications for both a future generation and the overburdened public school system.

Research shows that the turmoil of homelessness often hinders children’s ability to socialize and learn. Many are plagued by hunger, exhaustion, abuse and insecurity. They have a hard time performing at grade level and are about 50 percent less likely to graduate from high school than their peers.

“Homeless children are confronted daily by extremely stressful and traumatic experiences that have profound effects on their cognitive development and ability to learn,” said Ellen Bassuk, a Harvard Medical School psychiatry professor and president of the nonprofit National Center on Family Homelessness. “They tend to have high rates of developmental delays, learning difficulties and emotional problems as a product of precarious living situations and extreme poverty.”

Mary Aguilar, Daniel’s mother, said she believes the family’s tenuous existence is largely responsible for her son's struggles with his third-grade lessons.

“He’s depressed a lot,” she said of Daniel, whom she says has been the most affected of her sons by the loss of their home. “He does his work for class, but very slowly, like he’s thinking. He worries a lot about living like this.”

Under federal law, schools are charged with keeping homeless students like Daniel from falling behind their peers academically. This can mean providing a wide range of services, including transportation, free lunches, immunizations and referrals to family services.

But with insufficient federal funding and budgets that are severely strained, many schools are struggling to meet the rising need.

‘It's like a tidal wave’
In Vista, Calif., about 35 miles north of San Diego, the population of homeless kids in the local school district reached 2,542 this year — about 9 percent of the student body and nearly 10 times the number just two years ago, said Rebecca Benner, the district’s homeless liaison.

“It’s like a tidal wave this school year,” she said.

Benner’s role as homeless liaison — only part of her job providing student services — is now full time, as she scrambles to register homeless students for free lunches, arrange for  transportation, provide P.E. uniforms, line up counseling and cover SAT fees.

“It was supposed to be one small piece of my day,” she said. “… Now it’s almost insurmountable to get to the bottom of the phone messages.”

Hard-to-get numbers
The number of homeless people in the U.S. is the subject of much debate and disagreement. An annual one-night count, performed by social service organizations and volunteers who then report to the federal Department of Housing and Urban Development, attempts to tally the number of people living on the street, in cars or makeshift tents and in emergency shelters. The most recent survey — conducted in January 2008, before the full brunt of the recession hit — tallied 759,101 homeless Americans. Roughly 40 percent of them — or about 300,000 — were families with minor children, according to the survey.

Advocates for the homeless say a more reliable picture of what is taking place comes through a separate count conducted in public schools, in which the definition of “homeless” is broader.

Under the McKinney-Vento Homeless Assistance Act, “homeless” includes not just children who live on the streets, but “any individual who lacks a fixed, regular and adequate nighttime residence.” In addition to those living in shelters or cars or sleeping on the street, that figure includes children whose families are doubled up with other families or living in trailers due to economic hardship, those who live in substandard housing and kids awaiting foster care placement.

In 2007-2008 — the last school year for which data is available — the nation’s 14,000 public school districts counted more than 780,000 homeless students, a 15 percent increase from the previous year.

“I think that was the beginning of seeing the foreclosure crisis impact,” said Barbara Duffield, policy director of the National Association for the Education of Homeless Children and Youth.

In a voluntary survey late last year by the association and another nonprofit, First Focus, 330 school districts reported that the number of homeless students appears to be far higher, said Duffield, co-author of a report on the survey published in December. She estimated that the number of homeless students is now close to 1 million — exceeding numbers in the period right after Hurricanes Katrina and Rita.

“It’s this year, 2008-2009, that the rug was pulled out from under many school districts,” she said.

Stimulus package to boost funding
Federal funding for schools to provide services for homeless kids is allocated through McKinney-Vento, a 1987 law that was bolstered by the No Child Left Behind legislation of 2002.

“Under McKinney-Vento, every district is required to have a liaison with the responsibility to identify homeless kids,” said Duffield. In addition to the staff, the school districts are responsible for providing a number of services, which can include everything from meals and  clothing to athletic uniforms and educational field trips. One of the biggest costs in serving homeless kids is providing transportation to and from school, required even if the kids move out of the immediate area, she said.

The law included funding, but school districts must apply for grants to tap into it. Duffield estimated that only about 6 percent of the nation’s school districts received money through McKinney-Vento last year, though many more applied.

This year, schools were slated to receive $64 million to aid homeless students under the act. The newly passed federal stimulus package will add $70 million more in funding.

That will be a big help, Duffield said, while maintaining that the program “was woefully underfunded” even before the economic crisis pushed more people over the brink.

Duffield is now combing through the rest of the $787 billion economic stimulus package to see if funding in other categories might be used to help homeless students. For instance, the stimulus package includes $79 billion for a “State Fiscal Stabilization Fund” — about 80 percent of which is earmarked for K-12 education and is intended to offset state cuts in education funding.

The stimulus also adds $13 billion for Title I, the biggest federally funded education program, for schools that have large concentrations of needy students. Under some interpretations, these funds cannot be used to pay for transportation or liaisons for homeless students.

“(But) if the district identifies transportation, liaisons, social workers, gas cards, backpacks or shoes, they ought to be able to use their funds for that, because those are literally some of the needs,” Duffield said. “We’re looking for flexibility.”

Responses to the survey of school districts illustrate the variety of challenges that come with providing for homeless kids.

The Wisconsin Rapids Public School District, which serves 5,700 students in the state’s rural heart, counted 160 homeless students, a 50 percent increase over two years ago.

"One of the biggest challenges is transportation,” Heather Lisitza, the school district’s homeless liaison, was quoted as saying in the report. “Our city has only one taxi cab service and no public bus system. Another challenge (is)… we … have long, cold winters, all students need proper outerwear to go outside — snow boots, hat, mittens, snow pants and a winter jacket that has a working zipper or buttons on it. This expense adds up quickly and it is hard to provide to the increasing number of homeless students.”

More families pushed over the edge
School districts also say they are seeing more students from middle-class, working-class and working-poor families being pushed into homelessness.

Among them are Martin and Luz de la Rosa, who arrived one recent afternoon at the Ventura County (Calif.) Community Action Center, a facility that primarily serves chronically homeless men, for an appointment with a social worker.

The de la Rosas explained that they were seeking government assistance for the first time because they and their eight children — ages 3 to 16 — were just days from being evicted from their apartment.

Clutching a Bible, Luz de la Rosa said she lost her job at a small jewelry store as the recession kicked in. Then in November, her husband was laid off from the small Oxnard machine shop where he had been earning $19 an hour.

Martin said that left him with two untenable choices — continuing to collect unemployment benefits of $1,600 a month or taking a job at minimum wage, neither of which would cover rent for a home big enough for his family. The de la Rosas said they wouldn’t mind moving into a two-bedroom apartment, which is all they can afford here, but landlords won’t allow that many occupants.

Social worker Delores Suarez said she would like to place them somewhere together, but at the moment, there is simply not enough emergency housing available.

“They are probably going to end up split up among relatives” and attending different schools, she said.

Other homeless parents said that some schools are either unaware of their obligations to help or aren’t eager to provide the required services because of budget constraints.

Next in Suarez’s appointment book was a 35-year-old woman named Sylvia, who declined to provide her last name. She said that after a divorce three years ago, she lost her home to foreclosure and then couldn’t keep up with rent when she was laid off from her job at a car parts factory. She and her three kids then moved in with a friend.

“When the school found out we had moved (away from the neighborhood) … they wanted to remove the kids from school,” she said. Only after she met with district officials were they allowed to continue to attend, she said.

Identifying the homeless
Compounding the problem of getting school districts to live up to their responsibilities is the fact that many homeless families are unwilling to acknowledge their living situation and therefore don’t receive services that could help them, said Susan Eberhart, principal of the Sheridan Way Elementary School in Ventura.

“People have to identify themselves as homeless (in order to get help), but that frequently doesn’t happen,” she said.

Eberhart said she and her staff are accustomed to kids who are struggling at home — nearly all of the school’s 514 K-5 students are poor enough to qualify for free breakfast and lunch. Although 86 of them were identified as homeless in the last survey, she guesses that, based on telltale signs, at least 100 meet the criteria.

“They have no place to keep stuff, so their backpacks are very full. Their clothes are not clean. They haven’t had a haircut, haven’t seen a dentist,” she said. “… Maybe a kid has asthma and is out of meds.”

Eberhart said she is swamped by the scope of the problem. She no longer has the assistance of a county social worker who used to handle much of the load — a budget cut caused the county to eliminate that resource. Now she is urging people to ask for help — and prodding community organizations to help fill the gaps as she identifies them.

“Some families are sort of floating, she said. “If we can get them to land, we can provide … continuity.”

While the stigma of homelessness prevents some from acknowledging their plight, others have more immediate concerns, said Beth McCullough, homeless liaison for the Adrian Public Schools in economically battered southeast Michigan.

Families with children living in emergency shelters, pop-up campers, cars and tents can be charged with neglect by Child Protective Services workers, and there have been instances where parents have lost custody, she said. 

Fearing the loss of their kids, she said, "parents call in and say their kid won't be in school because they are going to Disneyland for a week, when the fact is that (they) don’t have a way to get them to school. Or parents will tell kids to lie about where they live."

Homework in pandemonium
For Mary Aguilar, the Oxnard woman living with her kids in the garage — which she rents for $150 a month from a cousin — the assistance her kids might receive at school is not worth the risk that other children will ridicule them if their living arrangement becomes known.

So she tries to help them stay on track, though it’s a daily struggle. Daniel recently missed several days of school because of yet another cold — a common ailment, his mother said, because the garage has been especially cold this winter. Normally she walks three of her sons to their elementary school, but some days heavy rains have kept them home.

For now, the family has few prospects for better housing. The family became homeless after Aguilar's boyfriend, father to the two youngest boys, left about a year and a half ago, and Aguilar could not pay rent. When an opportunity came to sign up for emergency housing five months ago, she lined up at the courthouse before dawn. For that, she got her name on a waiting list of about two years.

She has applied for jobs in stores and fast-food restaurants and come up empty-handed. She is exploring a work rehab program offered by the state. Meantime, the family gets by on about $1,300 a month in food stamps and cash aid — but no child support from the boys’ fathers.

For now, the routine remains the same. After school, Aguilar and the six boys go to her mother’s apartment, where her brother and sister also live. Aguilar’s family can’t stay overnight — that would put the others at risk of eviction — but it is a place to eat and for the boys to study.

But Daniel’s 11-year-old brother, Isaac, said he’s sometimes too distracted by the pandemonium of 10 people and the television to do his homework.

“Then he tries to do it when we get back to the garage, but the light keeps everyone awake,” said Aguilar.

Isaac has fallen behind a grade, and Aguilar’s eldest son, 17-year-old Joshua, is attending a remedial program for drop-outs. Aguilar is pleased that Daniel has so far been able to keep up with his grade level.

Unaware of the tough odds he faces, Daniel says he plans to finish high school. Like other boys his age, he still has big dreams — of becoming a basketball star and working at something important someday.

But first and foremost, he dreams of “a very beautiful house … with a room of my own.” The walls would be decorated, he said, “with posters, and pictures that I have drawn, and tests that I did in school.”

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happysocialist985Restored

Bush cut all GOOD social programs and people have been suffering for too long !! What is the matter with right wing, hypocrit church goer republicans ????? They are the ones preaching us for helping others, but are the ones who do not help the poor !! What have the poor done to you?????

More money need to be used to create good programs to help the most unfortunates !! this is the 21st century, these tragedies should no longer exist, not in america !!

  • 21 votes
#1 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 7:41 AM EST
Florida_kes

The "church goer republicans" aren't the ones cutting programs. It's the fiscally "responsible" ones that are doing the cutting while the church goers sit around worrying about things like abortion, gay marriage and what ever else their "leaders" keep them distracted with.

  • 17 votes
#1.1 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 8:24 AM EST
Mike-501780

FIRST- Check their "green" cards

SECOND- Media, keep telling them that things are bad and they are suffering. They'll use that excuse for the rest of their life.

THIRD- Why is it, the news media picks someone named Valdez? Why not Anderson or Goldstein?

Are the "Mexican-American"s the only ones who are homeless? Did they have a home to begin with?

Yup, I feel bad for the kids, but their parents are the ones who put them in this spot. Their parents should be telling them: We screwed up. We bought more than we could afford. This is NOT how you should try to live your life, learn from our mistakes.

Instead, they'll be telling them It's OK. Someone will bail us out. Soon.

  • 28 votes
#1.2 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 9:00 AM EST
Eric-289829

The failure of adults to be reproductively and economically wise does not require a bailout it requires hardship to get the point across. Most of these kids will not be so irresponsible with their own lives since they will have learned the lesson. I could have created a family so large it would burden my state too had there been a giveaway of services that I could take advantage of in a selfish manner but I didn't. The responsibility must be taught through experience. Unless you want government dictating your family size based on your income.

  • 13 votes
#1.3 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 9:01 AM EST
troy1Expand Comment Comment collapsed by the community

Happysocialist- The name says it all. You don't even know the circumstances of the story you stupid, liberal prick loser. These are probably illegals to wit I say get the hell out and quit soaking up all the taxpayers revenue.

  • 13 votes
#1.4 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 9:33 AM EST
mr common sense

Idiot, Its the 'everyone has to have a house ' mentality that has ruined the economy in the first place. If you cant afford a house in the US then LEAVE. Us who have worked for everything are tired of wiping A$$eS of you freeloaders that think we owe you something. The revolution is coming soon people and these scum and their liberal enablers will be the first to go

  • 11 votes
#1.5 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 9:40 AM EST
saxon

We are witnessing the begining of the collapse of the American economy. The entrance of America as a third-world country. Wake up America, this is no accident, it is being done by design.

  • 23 votes
#1.6 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 9:41 AM EST
troy1

Saxon- Excellent post. You hit the nail on the head. America will wake up-after it's too late.

  • 13 votes
#1.7 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 9:43 AM EST
hometowngirl-510510

i agree, 1st thing i thought was my gosh the size of these families are ridiculous.. 6 kids and 8 kids, geez, even without a recession this brood must have been hard to take care of. this article also highlights that we must make men pay, that one dad has just left the family and pays no child support..thats not right. charming cousin to charge $150 to rent the garage!! its time to stop overbreeding unless your sure you can take care of all kids and when times get rough family should be stepping in to help, no wonder we are broke, for that one family alone we pay $1300 a month plus free meals for her kids and clothing, why doesnt she work? as usual msnbc picks cases that i find to sympathise with

  • 6 votes
#1.8 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 9:43 AM EST
Donna-451187

Happysocialist....They are not responsible people 5 children? What is the mother doing with the money she recieves for 5 children? Im sure she is on some assistance? This is not a socialist country. Where is the father or fathers? Responsible people quit having more children then they could support 40 years ago. Responsible people who paid their own bills, saved, did without to save and prepare for their future. Found themselves in HUD taken over neighborhoods. Where the Government moved in the lawless and gang members. God says in both Testiments about the poor. Their prosperity is in their fallow fields, in those times the poor had the use of the corners of fields. that they did not plow. If you dont' work you dont eat, Jesus said that. We are a very generous people and have voted in programs to help those who are unfortunate and in trouble. All that did was allow the Government to waste money on the irresponsible. And I suspect it was their aim the Gov. to create those to fill their beaurocracy. The largest industry in California is Prisons. They needed them full. Its going to get worse. Prophecy says money will be worthless even gold and jewels will have no value. Because while the Gov. was so busy bailing the crimminal bankers no one noticed God has removed the blessings to the world. How are the crops in your area? CA feeds the country Arnold gave the farmers 0 water allotment? God controls the weather. Havent you noticed how strange the weather patterns are. If you follow Gods law you owe no man. Our Government punishes you for this. No bills no deductions. The responsible are prepairing for what is comming. God gave no free rides. His laws dont change. Charity is something we have all embraced but when charity becomes the destruction of the country and the individual its over. It was Bill Clintons charity to the irresponsibile to help them own property...just look what happened. I feel very sorry for this kid, but it was the government and its irresponsibility that brought this on, not mine.

  • 8 votes
#1.9 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 9:43 AM EST
benramz2

So what if the Social Programs were cut! I donate to the charities of my choice. I do not feel I should have to support my family on 50K a year and the irresponsible are rewarded for not being able to pay the bills but can buy new cars.

People are not entitled to anything but life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Nothing in th Constitiution says they don't have to work to get these things.

Cut Government spending on Social welfare programs by 75% across the board. Then let the charity begin at home. Statistics prove that fiscal conservatives give more to charity than all the liberals put together.

Stop the madness, tell President Barack (BOHICA) Obama what he can do with his social welfare state.

  • 9 votes
#1.10 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 9:44 AM EST
Leo Katz

One more sob story by the liberal education system to try and suck money out of the budget. Generations of Americans grew up during tough times and still learned to read, speak English and understand basic math and science. We spend a fortune and our children graduate from high school without even the most basic skills.

What was the original promise of the American Education System? I think it was to teach basics, not sex ed, drama, provide life counseling, insuring a warm place to sleep, free meal plans, healthcare, family planning, day care, etc. Get back to teaching basics, once that is successful we can talk about more money for extras.

Yes, parents and families are part of the problem, but we had generation of parents who could not read or write and had little involvement in their children's education. They also had problems with living conditions that were abysmal. Yet, we produced some of the greatest and most educated generations in history. Our educational establishment has become a liberal and lazy drain on our society as it stands.

Get out of the social work or social engineering business and back into basic solid teaching of fundamental without a liberal social agenda.

Yes, lest I forget – teach American children not illegal aliens or their children.

  • 11 votes
#1.11 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 9:51 AM EST
DD50

My brother the teacher was right, "The poor will always be blamed for being poor, even if they are only 8 years old".

Troy - hey, you're a winner (sarcasm), the heartless b@stard calling the prick a loser.

  • 6 votes
#1.12 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 9:55 AM EST
Jan-357844

Bash Bush. Not gonna do any good. He is gone and the Messiah is here.

California democrats are to blame for the shape they are in. They give give to people that are not there legally and let the legal ones suffer. I feel for the kids but quit blaming Republicans and church goers.

  • 8 votes
#1.13 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 10:22 AM EST
Longhair

Illegals have been putting a strain on the budget for so long and clinton/obama wants to give them handouts instead of sending them back.

Send them back to where they came from - including their children - and the problem will have a visible solution.

  • 8 votes
#1.14 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 10:27 AM EST
ripit22

What are you talking about? You know nothing. What happened to the Faith Based initiative? Obama is the one that cut the funding too the homeless you ignorant person to this fact.

  • 1 vote
#1.15 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 10:33 AM EST
JThomas2121

You want to talk about doing 'good,' how about this: as a resident of the area mentioned here, and fiancee of a Vista school district employee, I can tell that an incredibly high number of these students are illegals. Now, before you go on about 'oh, you're being insensitive and racist' I'll mention this: laws were created in this country for a reason. I have to obey them or I get punished. But here we are, ignoring those that break the law to get into this country because we say it's so hard for them back in their countries, they just want a better life. So do I and I work very hard to get by. And what about all those immigrants, who have built this country up, that did it legally. By allowing illegals to have access and rights to stay in this country, whether by amnesty or ignoring their status, you, in effect, slap all the others in the face.

It's not about being mean or insensitive, it's about right and wrong. It's about a group of individuals that don't pay into a system yet strain it more than any other faction. Illegals in this region make up a massive percentage of the population (like Vista), they pay nothing to the government, but they use a majority of its resources. There are none left for hard working, tax paying Americans, of all backgrounds, when times get tough like this.

We don't need more social programs. We need to more responsible leaders who will end this debate, send the illegals home with instructions on how to return legally. Then, we're happy to help and the system won't collapse under their weight. Those who disagree should actually live in these areas for themselves.

I talk with legal immigrants and many are as upset (or more) about illegals here than we are (remember, they did it the right way and worked hard to get here).

  • 15 votes
#1.16 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 10:44 AM EST
Kevin-859385

OK socialist. Families having six and eight kids has nothing to do with the problem? You are a perfect example of why this country is headed for third world status. Too many families showing no responsibility, no planning ahead, no looking at the bigger picture.

Blame it on Bush? Socialist you are pathetic.

  • 4 votes
#1.17 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 10:46 AM EST
ROY WILSON-336103

happysocialist985

"Bush cut all GOOD social programs and people have been suffering for too long !!"

I don't recall Bush cutting any social programs, so is this just a gratuitous jab?

These are certainly sad situations, but if you think about it, ultimately it's the result of poor decisions made by the parents. Perhaps some "real life" classes in school would be helpful in the future to prepare the students for reality.

Ultimately, increased welfare programs that subsidize this behavior end up expanding the problem, because the old adage still applies "If you want to encourage something, subsidize it, and if you want to discourage something, tax it".

It may seem heartless, but that doesn't make it any less true. Personal responsibility may go out of fashion, but it will never die.

JThomas2121 also pointed out that a large number of these students and their parents are illegal immigrants (in Vista at least), which puts a tremendous strain on the available resources.

  • 7 votes
#1.18 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 10:53 AM EST
ChevsMark

Well said! I almost feel sorry for Californians, but they voted in the bleeding heart liberals who created this mess. The State I live in cut spending on social programs, and we now have less illegals living here. Unfortunately, I have a job and with the Socialist we have as President will put me out of work and my home, bankrupting me so the poor illegals can have a home too. Oops, they already are doing that aren't they, with Fanny and Freddie!

  • 1 vote
#1.19 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 10:58 AM EST
motorcityrickDeleted
ROY WILSON-336103

ChevsMark

Unfortunately, I live in California, and it's really sad to see the social programs in action. If you go into a welfare office, almost all of the people are Spanish speakers, and if you go into the waiting rooms of hospitals, the majority are also Spanish speaking (who don't pay their bill), and more than half of the inmates in the prisons are illegal immigrants. You can't blame them because they have a far better life here on welfare than they would in their country, but guess who has to pay for it. The Dems in Sacramento encourage this because they consider them future voters for their Party, and they continue to create new programs to attract even more of them. That a big part of the reason that California has a budgey deficit of over $40 Billion, and now they are going to dramatically raise taxes in the middle of a recession, which any economist will tell you if the worst thing you can do. It used to be a great State - before the liberals took over. Now you'd better learn Spanish if you want to get around.

  • 1 vote
#1.21 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 11:11 AM EST
Stacey and tired of the lies

To most of you above, especially benramz 2 -

I'm a liberal from a blue state in the top tax bracket. I support much stronger immigration laws, including deportation, increased border funding and criminalizing the hiring of illegals. Democrats are not the only obstructionists. Republican's can't even come up with their own consistent plan on this issue. Some want immunity, others want deportation. Most don't want to really punish businesses that hire illegals which is the real root of the problem. You see, perhaps it's not unchristian to ask these folks to be self sufficient but it is if you exploit them. You can't have it both ways.

Lastly to Mr. Benramz and those similarly situated, good for you that you work so hard to support your family but even you are not self sufficient on $50k/year. You're not even covering the costs of your kids education. People like me are and I'd appreciate it, if you accept my largesse you just said thank you and quit with the name calling.

  • 3 votes
#1.22 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 11:18 AM EST
Mr. Rogers.

Bush cut all GOOD social programs and people have been suffering for too long !! What is the matter with right wing, hypocrit church goer republicans ????? They are the ones preaching us for helping others, but are the ones who do not help the poor !! What have the poor done to you?????

Wake up man... There IS NO MONEY.. the COUNTRY IS INSOLVENT. The state of California is a freaking disaster and the country is not far form behind.

  • 1 vote
#1.23 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 11:47 AM EST
h2o-393184

You can argue about adult responsibility all day long, but that does not help the situation. It is indeed heart-breaking.

  • 3 votes
#1.24 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 11:58 AM EST
schwannomin

DD has it right

My brother the teacher was right, "The poor will always be blamed for being poor, even if they are only 8 years old".

Best post I've seen all day.

  • 3 votes
#1.25 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 1:13 PM EST
Kurt-449104

IF F#cken Retardicans didn't hire illegals they wouldn't come here. They undermine the middle class, turning this into a two tier , third world society where a few have it all, and the other 90%+ fight for the scraps.

Besides, no one in the article mentioned they were illegals.

  • 1 vote
#1.26 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 3:46 PM EST
Bam Bam

Don't know why the community collapsed this? Seems not offensive to me?

    #1.27 - Wed Mar 4, 2009 1:38 AM EST
    Reply
    A.S

    This is just heartbreaking.

    • 12 votes
    #2 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 7:41 AM EST
    Munsta Boy

    And it will continue to be a tragedy as Deflation makes its way through the economy getting the jobs first. Greed in America has given birth to the BEAST and it is roaming throughout the world taking economies out. So continue to hold on to your riches you whom live in glass houses. The day will come soon when you will be asked yet again to take care and give. If you refuse this time then there will be no mercy for you. Americans will come against you in greater numbers and you WILL fall. Americans are tired of the GREED priced in everything. We have spoken and continue to speak.

    It is a shame in this country that anyone should go homeless when just around the corner from this family are huge homes with lots of space for them to take shelter. Its makes me so embarassed and outraged that we have soldiers whom fought in wars for us to be this way with each other.

    • 13 votes
    #2.1 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 9:23 AM EST
    ChevsMark

    Sorry kid (munsta), but here in America we need to work to get what we want. Since you don't have a clue I'll give you one. This is not yet a socialist state and I hope and pray Obama does not get his way and make us one with the help of a liberal dominated congress. I am of the working middle class. For how long? I'm in the auto industry, working to build the cars of the future that no one will buy.

    • 20 votes
    #2.2 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 11:03 AM EST
    Greg-281912

    I agree, this is heartbreaking.

    However, if you want kids, you should be able to afford them. Period. Having children is a CHOICE (and we all know how to prevent having children).

    • 35 votes
    #2.3 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 11:06 AM EST
    USA4Him

    This story is sad and scary. We live in the northeast and job losses are high.

    I have to believe by Faith that things will get better!

    Also, I am not trying to sound mean, but did'nt these moms use birth control! why bring so many children into the world if you can't afford them!? and they have losers for "fathers"?!

    • 22 votes
    #2.4 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 11:11 AM EST
    Marty From ModestoDeleted
    jeeesus

    hello, billions of dollars bailouts for big companies..chicken feed/ peanuts to poor/common Americans..the GREED insanity continues, freedom is not free..money can be so wicked..more police, more taxes, more control, higher prices..this life is hell !!.......

    • 8 votes
    #2.6 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 11:15 AM EST
    we'reallfrenchnowDeleted
    ROY WILSON-336103

    Certainly a sad situation, but if you really think about it, this is the result of poor decisions by the parents. Personal responsibility may go out of fashion, but it will never die. Perhaps some classes on "real life" might help the kids in the future, but with more and more programs being implemented to help irresponsible people, it will just get worse. The old adage is still true "If you want to encourage something, subsidize it, and if you want to discourage something, tax it".

    Unfortunately, I live in California, and I suspect that a large percentage of these kids have illegal immigrant parents. If you go into any welfare office here, almost all of the people speak Spanish, and this is also true in hospital emergency rooms (they get free medical care by not paying the bill). Illegal immigrants also make up more than half of prison inmates. It's great for the immigrants because they live better here on welfare than they would back home, but guess who pays the bills? The Democrats in Sacramento are actually expanding programs for illegal immigrants because they consider them future voters for their Party.

    This used to be a great State - until Liberals took over. Now we have a $43 Billion Deficit, and growing. I fear that Washington is now repeating the "California Experience".

    • 27 votes
    #2.8 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 11:27 AM EST
    ang-704073

    I am amazed at this heartlessness and hatred in people's posts on this board. The anonymous aspect of the internet really does show peoples true colors. For those of you who call yourselves Christians you should really take a look at your selves and ask yourselves if your hatred is really a "Christian" virtue that you should be holding. Do you think God looks at somebody who is suffering and asks first whether they are an illegal American before he makes his judgement or blessing on them? If God is a forgiving and loving God, do you think he looks at a struggling single mom with 6 kids and says "You deserve no help now, you got yourself in the boat your in for having so many kids..." For you Christians, did you not read the part of the bible where Jesus said "He who has not sinned cast the first stone" when all the people wanted to stone the prostitute for her sins?

    Take politics out of it, stop blaming Bush or Obama or whoever you want to blame. This is not a political issue, this is a human issue.

    It's really easy for people to sit back and put down others for the choices that they have made in their lives, it's easy for people to sit back and put down or hate the poor for needing help or blame them for the situations that they are in. It's really easy to do these things when you are not in the situation nor have ever been in that situation yourself.

    For those of you who call yourselves Christians who are complaining that these people have had too many kids...are you not the same people who are against abortion and are pro-abstinance only education? (I am pro-life myself btw, but also pro-sex education) Some of you are stating that people should not be allowed to have so many kids...are you insinuating that we should now have laws that state how many kids one person should be allowed to have? Do you really want this to be like China? That is a dangerous road to go down...many of you complain about the socialist agenda and fear us becoming a communist state, yet you want the amount of children one should have be a mandate of the state???? I'm confused as to why anybody would want the government regulating that!

    Here's a quote for you to think about:

    ""You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image, when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do."

    • 24 votes
    #2.9 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 11:38 AM EST
    Richie-416314

    So I guess if you have kids before your a millionaire that was poor planing on the parents part so I guess most of you that kick these people when their down are all millonaires ..... 

    • 7 votes
    #2.10 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 11:38 AM EST
    randall-736902Deleted
    1peanut

    To We'reallfrench now - You might want to do a little reseach into teachers unions. I am a teacher and NOT a member of the union by choice. Please don't blame the teachers. Blame the politically corrupt greedy unions and school district administration. If you knew anything about how the educational system works, you would know that teachers have zero control over anything that happens in public schools anymore and that is the problem with our educational system. It is run by a bunch of people who know nothing about what truly happens in the classroom.

    Some of us are lucky - we are not forced to join a union. Other states - like New York - require it. How American is that???

    • 10 votes
    #2.12 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 11:42 AM EST
    Un-Common Common Sense

    Why do I sense that this story is mostly about Illegal Aliens?? I feel sorry about the kids but if they are here illegally then their parents are at fault.

    • 31 votes
    #2.13 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 11:44 AM EST
    IcarDeleted
    Middle Class Mom-931372

    We constantly hear sad stories about very poor and very large families. Do these people not understand birth control! Should everyone else (including their children) pay the price for their irresponsible behavior?

    • 17 votes
    #2.15 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 11:45 AM EST
    Richie-416314

    ang-704073

    Being a so called Christian is just a front for most of these people what goes around always comes around they can have their nose in the air now but if they ever lose what they have We shall see, it's so easy to lose your job today and I hope they all get a taste of what these unfortunate people are experiencing.

    • 6 votes
    #2.16 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 11:46 AM EST
    bwana1961Deleted
    A.S

    Does it not enter any of your minds that there are many factors outside of a person's control that can lead to homelessness? Or where they can fall upon hard times through no fault of their own.

    As a single mom of three with an ex that split and cut off support, harassed me at work, harassed me at night, lied about his income, refused to help cover cost associated wtih our children's needs I resent the fact that so many people here seem to have hearts of stone. While I was raising our children and working and dealing with his stalking and abuse and threats I nearly lost my house because I couldn't afford to pay rent due to my income (which would have been higher had I not been the primary care giver and finished University like he was able to do). So I tried to get another job to make ends meet and my boss got us in a serious car accident. You know sometimes things can just happen and I fought hard and long to get things turned around but if not for the kind hearted people out there willing to help out where they could I don't know where we would be today. Not everyone falling on hard times is looking for a free ride and to those who spout off about not having you children if you can't afford them - well many can and it is not their fault when their husband's or wives bugger off or have to be left because they are abusive jerks. Or when they fall on hard times due to layoffs and other losses. At the end of the day it is the children who truly suffer and believe you me, women and men who have gone through similar things as I have love their children and want the best for them just as much as the rest of you.

    And I could list tons of examples of those who have been hit with exceptional loss who are NOT illegals but why bother because many of you here and now who have nothing but negative to say about anyone needing any sort of help what so ever or falling on hard times may just be one more person added to that list and you will soon find out yourself just how it feels to be on the other end of the spectrum.

    • 16 votes
    #2.18 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 12:12 PM EST
    DrowningGrover

    "Does it not enter any of your minds that there are many factors outside of a person's control that can lead to homelessness? Or where they can fall upon hard times through no fault of their own."

    Of course it doesn't. For the majority of these idiotic rightwingers if a person is poor it is a direct result of being either brown-skinned, not working hard enough, or some combination of both. Nevermind reality and facts and figures showing this not to be the case, or stats showing that a large portion of this countries homeless are war veterens with mental trauma, or that women are disproportionitly (sic?) more prone to being homeless than men, or any other FACT one can come up.

    If you're homeless in this country, it's cause you're not pulling on your boot straps hard enough according to the right...

    :rollseyes:

    • 15 votes
    #2.19 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 12:20 PM EST
    ForTheBreakUpDeleted
    Deb-454574Deleted
    netprophet

    Regardless of whether those interviewed for this article were legal or not, the problem out there in California is illegal immigration. Agriculture gets cheap labor and the taxpayers foot the bill for massive services and ER healthcare. I have no sympathy for these people. Either immigrate legally, or get your ass back to Mexico. Roy Wilson is right, no one wants to do anything about this problem because they don't want to lose Latino votes. So the problem gets bigger and bigger until the state is bankrupt. This problem is massive, and I don't think even Obama wants to touch this one with a ten foot pole.

    • 9 votes
    #2.22 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 12:35 PM EST
    George-313012Deleted
    A.S

    I raise my children thank you very much - even through the hard times where we lost almost everything.

    So what are you going to do when you get married (or are already married) and have kids and you are hit with hard circumstances after the fact? Avoid your responsibility as a parent and toss your kids out cause now you can't afford them? Or think back and say oh gee I should have seen this coming and not had you little buggers in the first place now go get jobs. Let me tell you something if you think the only people who fall on hard times do so and then get themselves knocked up you've little education. Anyone, at any time can end up in this position regardless of all the planning in the world - even those who were rich and swimming in tubs of money can one day find themselves hit hard by a set of circumstances that change everything in their lives.

    As for the free birth control - I suggest you take your own advice and use it cause I would hate to see how you handle what others have gone through as a single person let alone as a parent.

    Perhaps if someone stops feeding you, you will stop spouting off ignorance.

    • 6 votes
    #2.24 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 12:39 PM EST
    Missy Turan

    Hey, where is the Child Services of the United States of America!?

    • 2 votes
    #2.25 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 12:40 PM EST
    Deb-454574

    It is like that here in NJ as well. The public schools are over-run with kids who don't speak English, violent & sex crimes by illegals are through the roof, and I am afraid t go shopping after dark because they are lurking around everywhere. Our state is broke and they keep raising taxes on the American citizens homeowners to supports these freeloaders.

    • 13 votes
    #2.26 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 12:44 PM EST
    SvenolafsonDeleted
    GOZO-unlimited

    All communities should be educated on the homeless in their sphere of influence and organize accomodations for them. Compassion and concern should fuel our actions not greed and self obsession. It is a crime that our government allowed open borders...encouraging foreign workers to illegally migrate here. The corporations who benefitted from cheap labor should be held accountable for the welfare of the families they abused. But it appears they are in control of the treasury and our lives .....they really don't give a damn.

    • 5 votes
    #2.28 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 1:01 PM EST
    Gus-393033

    Ang 704....

    Why the diatribe against Christians? Sure, these are human beings and they need to be helped. But I didn't see you getting all over the Hindus for not helping! What about the Muslim community....what are they doing to help?

    Instead of wasting your time getting all over Christians and what they should do or think..."GO OUT AND BE ONE YOURSELF!" In the end, it is what you do for others that will be taken account. There will always be a lack of concern...that is the way that it is.

    James said "You can talk all you want about your faith...but I will show you mine by my works." Paraphrased Gus Version

    The Ideal situation would be for everybody to help one another...but it is not in our collective character to be that way.

    • 2 votes
    #2.29 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 1:03 PM EST
    ROY WILSON-336103

    There seem to be a lot of people who think it's "heartless" to complain about illegal immigrants coming here to live off our welfare system. I would like to pose a question for them. There are about 6.7 Billion people in the World. Approximately 1/3 of them are the unskilled and uneducated who are unable to make it in their own countries. Why should we limit the illegal immigration to those from Mexico and Central America? Isn't that discriminating against the 2 Billion + unskilled and uneducated from China, India and Africa?

    Either we set reasonable immigration standards or we should open it up to the poor and uneducated from everywhere. And anyone that thinks we can and should absorb the unskilled and uneducated without suffering a dramatic drop in our standard of living should perhaps move to a third World nation and see what it's really like that you're promoting here.

    It may seem "heartless" to you, but it is reality. America was founded on immigrants, but they came for the opportunity and either worked hard or perished. That is no longer true of modern day immigrants. They come for the opportunity, but stay for the "free" benefits, and the "system" no longer requires hard work to survive.

    There's a reason that our standard of living has been declining, and illegal immigration by the unskilled and uneducated is a significant part of it. We are being sold out for partisan political reasons.

    • 14 votes
    #2.30 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 1:09 PM EST
    The_Drill1116

    Whats heartbreaking is the fact that these people push out kids for no reason into a society that they expect to support them....thats heartbreaking. Let people start starving to death and maybe they will learn the error of their ways

    • 7 votes
    #2.31 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 1:13 PM EST
    The_Drill1116

    Oh and BTW nobody supports my family except for me.

    • 5 votes
    #2.32 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 1:14 PM EST
    schwannomin

    DD has it right

    My brother the teacher was right, "The poor will always be blamed for being poor, even if they are only 8 years old".

    Best post I've seen all day.

    I copied it to the end of 1.###, but it was collapsed. This needs to be seen as much as possible.

    • 8 votes
    #2.33 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 1:14 PM EST
    Rich-300568

    the stock market is down 3000 pts since the election and this worthles msnbc is sticking its head in the sand. You angry liberals including obama are watching this country burn but then it is erasing the retirement accounts of millions of americans but then you angry liberals are all governemnt union employees that get their retirement funds from us the taxpayers..ROME IS BURNING

    • 5 votes
    #2.34 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 1:16 PM EST
    schwannomin

    Let people start starving to death and maybe they will learn the error of their ways

    You should give out your actual name. That way we know who you are when it is you starving and homeless.

    • 2 votes
    #2.35 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 1:16 PM EST
    Richard Baxter

    Change for America, Obamaics, billions more for welfare, people that dont want to work, are lazy, even those who before couldn't have more babies because the GOVERNMENT wouldn't pay for them, relief IS in sight. Mr. Obama has changed all that, you can have as many babies as you need! The OBAMA administration will send you a check for each and EVERYONE of them. If you want an abortion, the government pays...it's free! Don't worry, if youre illegal and can't afford the house the CLINTON administration made the banks finance for you, once again the GOVERMENT will pitch in and pay for your home, plus you can now even apply for welfare, citizen of the United States of not. I do not feel sorry for anyone, male or female that will not work, sorry.

    • 5 votes
    #2.36 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 1:17 PM EST
    schwannomin

    Once again another outstanding post:

    I don't feel like merely voting for you guys is sufficient. I will repost you. Seriously, it is people like you that keep this country great.

    "Does it not enter any of your minds that there are many factors outside of a person's control that can lead to homelessness? Or where they can fall upon hard times through no fault of their own."

    Of course it doesn't. For the majority of these idiotic rightwingers if a person is poor it is a direct result of being either brown-skinned, not working hard enough, or some combination of both. Nevermind reality and facts and figures showing this not to be the case, or stats showing that a large portion of this countries homeless are war veterens with mental trauma, or that women are disproportionitly (sic?) more prone to being homeless than men, or any other FACT one can come up.

    If you're homeless in this country, it's cause you're not pulling on your boot straps hard enough according to the right...

    :rollseyes:

    • 5 votes
    #2.37 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 1:19 PM EST
    schwannomin

    As much venom as there is on these boards (and in this country, more generally) for the poor, I see glimmers of hope. DD and DrowningGrover(?) are all over this thing. I commend both of you. You guys (girls?) are the backbone of a stable civilization. You are the ones that keep us from decending into a fully survival-of-the-fittest thunderdome.

    Many of the posts seen here are from people so privleged that they don't even know what the fear is like when you see the kitchen pantry empty. I've experienced that fear. I've felt the shame heaped upon me from so many in my community. I've made it to the other side, but I will never forget how easy it is to slip into poverty. Almost everyone on this board is one lost job or one big sickness away from being the ones they so despise.

    • 8 votes
    #2.38 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 1:28 PM EST
    Ruby-614050

    I feel very sorry for these kids; it's not their fault or their choices--it's often their parents! Reading of the mother whose children missed school when it was raining--that's not a good excuse. Salvation Army provides help to people, churches have coat drives and give coats to those needing them. Pride can't rule when children have needs.

    I KNOW people are losing jobs, homes, etc. There is unemployment, welfare checks, etc. I know there are millions of people who do legitimately need help. They should be helped, but each case should stand on its own merits. Americans are certainly generous to those needing help. Americans DON"T like being TOLD it is their responsibility to give/provide to ALL who say they need help. I also know there are many whose lives have been lived "off the government". In my own family, a relative tried to coach her daughter to pretend she was disabled to collect more money. The daughter confided to my mother she didn't want to be labeled as "dumb" because she wasn't. After graduating, she went to work while her two adult siblings lived at home collecting welfare with their mother. Morbid obesity claimed their lives early (before 35).

    The Bible clearly teaches us to have charity. It also says if a man "won't" work, neither should he eat. That would be a choice. The kids---YES, they should be helped!! I had tears reading about those kids. I wanted someone to give that son a lamp so he could study without the overhead light bothering the others who were sleeeping. Most garages have electric plug-ins. Teachers often buy for students when they know they need something.

    AMERICANS, DO NOT TURN AGAINST EACH OTHER. We need each other. Don't let politics/politicians kill or divide the concern and care we have for each other. I believe that if people will make their needs known to those around them, they will receive some help--that's what we as Americans do. WE LIKE BEING ASKED, NOT TOLD OR COMMANDED!

    I think that if all the pork and earmarks were removed from Washington's spending spree---we would have more than enough for housing, food, etc. for all those needing it!!!

    • 3 votes
    #2.39 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 1:30 PM EST
    Laurelei-99-916779Deleted
    schwannomin

    It is a crime that millions of American children live in destitute conditions. But the fact remains there are tens of millions who will tell them they deserve it because of the mistakes of their parents. So long as tens of millions are so unaffected by poverty that they can tell others it is their own fault, this country is on the decline.

    One silver lining in this current economic collapse is that poverty will touch just about every one of us. Maybe none of those tens of millions will personally be impoverished, but they will probably know someone who is and it just might be someone they even (GASP) care about. Perhaps they will see it isn't always a person's fault she is poor.

    • 3 votes
    #2.41 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 1:41 PM EST
    schwannomin

    I find the scapegoating of illegal immigrants absolutely hilarious. It's as though there isn't one homeless American citizen in the country. And from the looks of just how many people are posting here that I've "ignored author," it looks like this story has really brought the racists out of the woodwork.

    • 7 votes
    #2.42 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 1:48 PM EST
    schwannomin

    As an addendum...

    Cogratulations black America! There is a new minority whites scapegoat for our country's poverty. After 230 years you have finally graduated to first class citizenship.

    • 1 vote
    #2.43 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 1:50 PM EST
    tony-268769

    Sorry...but I've given up feeling guilty and refuse to acknowledge blame being cast on "greed" and "heartlessness" or any political entity.

    With what is going on in this country and this planet, my tear ducts have been dried out. Another sob story about not enough being done to serve one more woman with six or seven kids with five or six different last names...it is not anyone's fault but the female producer of these children. I cannot really even blame the absent fathers...or should I say 'sperm donors'. Did Ms. Aguilar believe for an instant that the sperm donors for children numbers 4, 5, or 6 was going to stick around and help raise and finance the children of the previous sperm donors who had done their deed and took off ??? I'm surprised the 'donor' and 'recipient' were even able to find a quiet moment in which to consumate Ms. Aguilar's latest implantations of DNA material. But then again, I guess "romance" isn't really a part of the equation...simple mass reproduction is more to the point.

    And we wonder why the costs of running this country has spiralled way beyond control ???

    • 9 votes
    #2.44 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 2:06 PM EST
    schwannomin

    So why do you suppose gov't sponsored contraception was one of the first things axed from the stimulus package? Seems as though we, as a country, would prefer that provision being in there.

    • 3 votes
    #2.45 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 2:19 PM EST
    schwannomin

    The Palin girl could have used some gov't subsidized contraception. We know her mom would never buy it for her.

    • 1 vote
    #2.46 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 2:27 PM EST
    ang-704073

    Gus-393033

    I am a Christian...thank you.

    I am confronting you so called Christians who hypocritically go to church on sunday and praise Jesus, yet don't listen to his message and live your lives accordingly. You "Christians" who are on here spewing your hatred and racism about the poor rather than having a compassionate heart as Jesus would.

    • 4 votes
    #2.47 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 2:32 PM EST
    tony-268769

    ang.....I'm guessing that Jesus would have told Ms. Aguilar to slow down with the baby-making for a while.

    • 5 votes
    #2.48 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 2:59 PM EST
    Dun Trino

    I wonder if ya'll realize that it is racist beyond belief to assume that someone is illegal just because they are of Latin-American descent.

    Besides, they wouldn't do an article about an illegal family living in squalor. That certainly isn't news.

    • 1 vote
    #2.49 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 3:13 PM EST
    guywithabrain

    George said: As to war vets - why is it we have so much mental trauma these days and none during WWII and Korea. Maybe it has more do to yellow streaks and drug addiction.

    George,

    I am sure some degree of mental trauma experienced by some WW II veterans. It would be ridiculous to imply otherwise. But times were different, and perhaps there was a feeling among the troops that the events of WW II were more justifyable than any of the US military adventures, or should I say misadventures since then. If you don't feel completely justified in what you are being ordered to do, there may be higher levels of trauma. Make sense?

    • 1 vote
    #2.50 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 3:14 PM EST
    Dioneca

    As a hardworking, tax-paying bi-racialite with no kids, I kind of have it easiest when it comes to saying that these people--black, white, hispanic or otherwise--need to stop taking my money by over-populating the country with kids they have no means to support. If I, of all people, am infuriated by the wanton ways of the lower class (from whence I came), then you, the middle and upper classes of America, damned sure ought to be pissed off, too.

    And yeah, ang--Jesus would've said, "Cool it with the baby-making..."

    • 6 votes
    #2.51 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 3:17 PM EST
    Only1Paula23

    schwannomin

    As an addendum...

    Cogratulations black America! There is a new minority whites scapegoat for our country's poverty. After 230 years you have finally graduated to first class citizenship.

    This black American has a comment for you...SCREW YOU BUDDY!!! I live in California and I know first hand that the illegal immigrants and their offspring are probably the number 1 contributor to our states decline financially, environmentally, educationally and socially. Please do not try to compare people hopping a border illegal and popping out babies like a Pez dispenser to what my ancestors had to go through in this country.

    • 10 votes
    #2.52 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 3:25 PM EST
    IMMIGRATIONFORYOUDeleted
    Jessicaf

    A regular unemployment rate 5% we are at 7.6%, which is high but we have experienced this in the early 90 and late 70's. With that being said their are still low paying jobs out there available and a small % more than usual have lost jobs.

    When making the choice to have children you are making the choice to be a parent and take sole responsibilty of your children. We are not addressing the problem that these parents did not make responsible choices for their children and have become 1 parent households with no one bringing in an income besides our gov. to pay for their families that they chose to have. I have 3 children and would and have done whatever it takes to make ends meet. My husband and I had 3 children by the age of 21 and took complete responsibility for our family. We both worked around the clock while he went to school full time. This was our choice for our own life and family so why should anyone else pay the bill for our decisions. We make the choice of where and what we become in life and hardwork pays off. The dems in congress wants your votes and making people dependant on the gov. is their best way to do so.

    • 2 votes
    #2.54 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 3:32 PM EST
    Kurt-449104

    I understand how Republicans feel. I think Democrats as well feel overwhelmed. However, the article here stated (sidebar) that all were legal. Also the majority of people who are on welfare are CAUSCASION!!! Illegals pay taxes on everything they buy. Employers hire these people (and from reading posts it seems Republicans think only Republicans are business owners) , so Republicans blame yourselves. Middle Class people suffer as they become lower-middle class people competing with illegals. All the while Republicans(you're all union hating business owners,right?) send jobs out of the country. Then they buy Lexus's and tell people get a job,,,lol... This is becoming a two-tier society... Remember, the king became a king at the end of a sword or gun, so Johnny get your gun and take what you can't have. Is that the solution? Turn on each other?

    Republicans had 8 years and this is their fault, just as they are already blaming Obama after less then 60days, don't whine you didn't have enough time or influence. Your policies screwed things up so bad, that now Obama is doing trauma surgery, and the cost is the same as the difference as someone who could have gone to the Dr. with a cold but couldn't afford it, so now we all pay for his lung surgery... To bad you let Bush steal that 2nd election.

    • 5 votes
    #2.55 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 4:14 PM EST
    Karen in Los Angeles

    While I feel for this family, I am also upset. Why in the world did this family have so many children that they can not support?

    I am truly fed up with saving for my retirement, trying to save to buy a condominium (min price in Los Angeles is $500,000 for a small condo), and trying to take care of me who chose not to get married and have a family so I could keep my money.

    Then we have people who keep pumping out kids they can not afford and expect me to fork out more money in taxes so that they can.

    Why is that fair?

    • 6 votes
    #2.56 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 4:19 PM EST
    Karen in Los Angeles

    Since the Catholic Church does not believe in birth control, I suggest that the Pope starts giving all these HUGE FAMILIES money to support the families.

    I was brought up Catholic. My mother is the oldest of 11 children and they all worked on my grandfather's farm.

    Why in the world would a family bring 8 children into the world if they work as a clerk in a jewelry store? PUH-LEEZ - get a grip on reality.

    • 8 votes
    #2.57 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 4:22 PM EST
    Harry-413088

    George re:post 2.23 Mental Trauma has existed since the Civil War days and probably before that. The only thing is that the medical profession did not fully understand what it was and what caused it or how to treat it. Even today the medical field is still learning more about it. Mental trauma has had various names Including shell shock, combat fatigue and the current name of Post traumatic Stress Disorder. Not everyone who has PTSD reacts in the same way and the level of of the illness depends a lot on the severity and length of exposure to the stess situation. but those are not the only factors. Mental Trauma has nothing to do with drug addiction or cowardice. As wars become more and more violent and troops are exposed to combat situations for longer periods of time we will see an increase in Mental Trauma cases.

    • 2 votes
    #2.58 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 4:24 PM EST
    doubting thomas 1

    Kurt-449104

    Let's keep it to SIX years not EIGHT years, since the democrats have controlled Congress the last two years.

    Yes, the economy is in trouble because of Greed. The main question is who knew about the problems and for how long and why are we not hearing about them going after the guilty ????????

    Maybe it is because many or most of the guilty are still in Power ?????

    • 1 vote
    #2.59 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 4:26 PM EST
    doubting thomas 1

    Heartbreaking Maybe ????

    How many of these people entered our Country illegally and had their babies here (at our expense) and then stayed because they have "anchor babies" as someone further down these posting mentioned ?

    If Obama wants to give Universal Health Care out and 1/3 to 1/2 of these people are illegally in this Country, what does that say about Him and his Party. Oh! Maybe some of you want to award Him the Great humanitarian award ! (He and Gore can stand on Stage together !)

    10% of the people from Mexico are living illegally in our Country and that does not include all the other illegals living here who most people do not even talk about !!

    • 4 votes
    #2.60 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 4:30 PM EST
    Kurt-449104

    Karen, I can find you a nice condo in LA for $100k-$200k easy, even up here in Saugus where all the white people from the SFV fled too. Check out Realtor.com.

    I to am Catholic and always question the abortion, birth control stance of our church.

    I am an odd bird, I'm a Democrart who supports the 2nd Amendment as if my life and liberty depended on it (because they do). I am pro-Death Penalty, kill them if they murder, raped, kidnapped or are violent (and I don't mean Texas convictions- where there is doubt or only circumstancial evidence). I am also Pro-Abortion- kill them now, save the 18years and their potential victims. Deport Illegals. And shoot any business owners in the face that hire them. Also gangbangers are terrorists and should be used for target practice. Oh yeah and women with tattos are stupid slut whores.

    Does that cover it 4 ya?

    • 1 vote
    #2.61 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 4:32 PM EST
    Karen in Los Angeles

    Kurt - thanks for the advice and maybe prices have lowered now but I can only imagine that a condo for $100K is in the Rampart division of Los Angeles where Korean gangs run rampant.

    We have a lot in common and I don't think the Pope would agree that you call yourself Catholic because you and I don't believe in all of the dogma.

    HEY CALIFORNIANS ---- the increase in our income taxes, sales taxes and car registrations are not enough for you to contact your legislators to tell them to get off their buts and start deporting illegals? Wait until that income tax starts getting deducted from your check.

    I need some help. Thanks.

    • 2 votes
    #2.62 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 4:43 PM EST
    Kurt-449104

    All this and little Bernie Maddoff (sp?) is still in his penthouse apartment in NewYork with his butler, maids, chaffuer, house cleaners, etc etc etc. If he wasn't so rich, he'd be in jail getting ready for the electric chair where he belongs. Hell, even drug dealers who are rich, get their assets seized and have to use a public defender and in LosAngeles they are seizing houses dealers bought for their moms, etc. but NO WAY not for Madoff and his wife, she took $15million weeks before her husband was arrested. What????

    Elitists take more money than all the unions and union members combined- the people actually doing the work and Unions are bastardized by the right 24x7... what a joke.

    Picking industries we can crush the competition in , is our solution.

    Food costs have gone up 300% for tomatoes etc... I suppose the illegals pay has gone up accordingly right? Wrong! So where did all that profit go? The last year it might have gone to arabs, what about the 5-10 years before that? GREEEEEEEED anyone.

    So much blame, so few answers.

    • 2 votes
    #2.63 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 4:45 PM EST
    doubting thomas 1

    That should read:

    10% of Mexico's population is living here illegally !

    • 3 votes
    #2.64 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 4:47 PM EST
    ang-704073

    Oh Really? Jesus would have said cool it with the baby making? So now you are all so clever that you know what Jesus would have said?

    Maybe he would have said that, who knows. But would Jesus, after the babies were born say that the babies must suffer because their mom had them when she couldn't afford them? I doubt it.

    Another thing, there is so much focus on the mother being at fault for having so many babies, yet the man get's off scott free in this...Clearly, men can sleep around and have as many babies as they want and not have to take care of them or pay for them, yet the woman is the one at fault....

      #2.65 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 4:47 PM EST
      Kurt-449104

      Karen, go to Realtor.com and type in 91350 for the area you want to search, for $150k and up (for $200k-$300k you can find upper class neighborhood where walking alone at night isn't like playing russian roulette, its pretty sweet) you can literally find a nice place and not in the worst parts of what is still a nice town.

      • 1 vote
      #2.66 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 4:48 PM EST
      skipster56

      " Many are plagued by hunger, exhaustion, abuse and insecurity. They have a hard time performing at grade level and are about 50 percent less likely to graduate from high school than their peers."

      This is a real problem and should be addressed for what it is. People that do not have an education have no ability to help their own children learn. Americans think the teachers are responsible and that's not the way it is. The problem is the government wanted the all children "streamlined" which means they have the same rights as any other student. Facts are facts! If those children are having problems and under achieving, they need to be put in a special education class. That is one of the biggest problems in America. Children having children and too many to afford, then not being able to weather any storm. When those children, as mentioned, don't graduate, then go out to have their own children, why would anyone expect them to change the future, if it was handed down to them. They are the people that want the governments help, and when that happens, why would anyone want to work when they get "free" money? If you are not educated and you have money handed to you, you don't know how to manage it, let alone earn it. That's a problem we have in America and it's will only worsen. What you will see, in years to come, is a poor population that will revolt against the government and wealthy people. That's what happens when you are a majority that doesn't get what you want.

      • 1 vote
      #2.67 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 4:54 PM EST
      Kurt-449104

      Outsourcing Jobs to help Wall St and the S&P is our downfall. And now we see how much Wall St has down to protect our stocks and 401k's--- nothing , because they can't. If you have a decent company don't ever let it go public, otherwise you'll be beholden to posting unrealistic gains every 90 days and it will cripple you in the end, but if your only goal is to get out while the gettin is good,then issue your IPO and enjoy.

      • 4 votes
      #2.68 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 4:55 PM EST
      Brooklyn BoxerDeleted
      Greg-281912

      Kurt, you can't even find a condo in (God forbid) Hemet or Perris for 100k.

      However, I did find on realtor.com a 1948 trailer at Bombay Beach for only 99K. But I digress.

      Having children is a CHOICE and you should be able to fund them through age 18 before you even THINK about conception. Period.

      • 2 votes
      #2.70 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 5:00 PM EST
      Kurt-449104

      Ladies, besides children, the next biggest group of poor in this country is retired women, or women who should be retired (as they are 65+).

      Ladies, get your money straight... keep 20% in gold in a safe deposit box(s) ,

      keep 20% in staples- like General Mills - because Americans wont buy Japanese cereal - even though we buy Toyota etc to our own economic suicide ,

      keep 20% in oil stocks because exxon will pimp us again soon enough (once we move closer to wind & solar move there) ,

      keep 20% in S&P and buy now , because it will come back again if you have a 5-10-20 year time line and

      put 20% in speculative companies, which right now might include former BlueChips like AIG, Ford, GM etc... or just some up & coming company you like and do the legwork on...

      If I was you , you might ignore my advice on 20% here or there but take this advice to heart,,, that nut job on Mad Money(Jim Cramer) gives out sound advice DON'T take his stock picks without doing your own homework, but he is the 1st guy I ever met that tells you WHAT THE HOMEWORK IS and where to find it, as well as the tools to gauge results of a company. Also read Rich Dad , Poor Dad series. And Nice Girls Dont Get Rich, 75 avoidable mistakes women make with money by Lois Frankel (sp?)...

      The Millionaire Next Door , and each one of them recommends many other books as well... Also The 177 MENTAL TOUGHNESS SECRETS OF THE WORLD CLASS by Steve Siebold,,, a great book especially now... and he also recommends dozens of other great books.

      One last thing, NEVER NEVER NEVER let any man - control your finances, I don't give a rats a$$ how great he is or how long you've been married. He shouldn't be able to move a penny of yours without your signature, period, end of discussion. If you want to let him have access make sure its that 20% for speculative investments you can afford to loose, because chances are - you will loose it.

      Good Luck, you'll need it if you don't take charge of your finances.

      • 1 vote
      #2.71 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 5:17 PM EST
      Kurt-449104

      Greg281912, I just looked in Hemet and removed land, mobile homes etc and found a total of 360 houses for under $100k !!!!!!! Including condo's !!!! Then I removed all listings except Multi-Family, ie Investment Properties and found 6 listings under $100k in Hemet. Try again Greg !!! Oh by the way, the cheapest mobile home in Hemet was $8,500- !!!

      • 1 vote
      #2.72 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 5:28 PM EST
      Smokeysmom

      I have four times seen people walking down the streets in my neighborhood well after dark, dragging a suitcase behind them, looking about as bewildered and sad as you can get. The fourth time, I stopped and asked the woman I saw where she was going. She said she was going to try to get to the train station. She had lost literally everything -- her job, her house, her car, and she was going to walk 6.5 miles to the train station at 8PM, when I saw her, to try to get into the city to catch a bus. I offered her a ride to the train station and told her it was closed and she'd have to wait all night. She said that was better than waiting for eviction from her home. She wasn't Latino, either. That was last year, when things started to go sour. Now, when I run into someone who is having a rough time, I try to offer something, even if it's just a copy of the newspaper ads showing jobs available, to someone who just lost a job.

      It's rough now, and it's going to get rough later, so you little wankers who are busy pointing fingers, just remember: what goes around, comes around. The more you sneer at the unfortunate and make nasty remarks, the more likely you are to get hit next. Go ahead: blame, blame, blame. What's that old proverb? "As ye shall sow, so shall ye reap." If you can't figure that out, it means you get back what you give out.

      • 2 votes
      #2.73 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 5:33 PM EST
      Kurt-449104

      Greg, Up here in Northern LA County, where the honkies and the uppity others who dare to want to live in a gunfire free zone, I find about a dozen listings within 5 miles of the zip code of 91350... if you go for $100k-$200k in strictly 91350 over 300listings... make it 3+ bedrooms for $100k-$200k you find 138 houses & condos...

      Greg - look harder , this is the opportunity of a lifetime for those willing to keep an open mind. and to work 1-2-3 jobs and fix your credit in the next 24 months, hell even if you give up a foreclosure right now, in 2-3 years that will include so many of us they'll be selling houses to you again- no doubt.

      America, keep your chin up, we might bend but we will never break (til we make the planet uninhabitable but thats a different source of fun)... !!!

      Work Work Work , Save and Invest Intelligently... and Buy & Hold is not intelligently.

        #2.74 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 5:40 PM EST
        Karen in Los Angeles

        Kurt - 91350 - isn't that Sherman Oaks? My friends own a home in Sherman Oaks.

        My friends just put in another set of steel doors with barriers because of a rash of robberies in his neighborhood - near Woodman and Ventura.

          #2.75 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 5:45 PM EST
          Gus-393033

          Ang 704...

          I am a Christian...thank you.

          I am confronting you so called Christians who hypocritically go to church on sunday and praise Jesus, yet don't listen to his message and live your lives accordingly. You "Christians" who are on here spewing your hatred and racism about the poor rather than having a compassionate heart as Jesus would.

          What do you mean by "You"? Anyone who claims to be Christian and spews out the kind of venom you are letting out has an axe to grind. Not everyone who says they are Christian is Christian. Even Jesus recognized this. He also made it plain that what others are doing should not color the way that "I am" doing things.

          Your bitterness is ill-placed. Throwing labels out on everyone is ill-placed. More Christian groups do a great service in the name of Christ than you give them credit for. They just choose not to stand on the corners and toot their own horns, another thing that Jesus instructed them not to do. And so they go unnoticed by the general public. But their real work does not go unseen by God.

          I am astonished at your attacks while stating that you are somehow a "real Christian". If God's people bite and devour one another...how will they get the real work done? And how do these attacks bring glory to His Name?

            #2.76 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 5:53 PM EST
            God bless America

            No worries - all of America is about to bail California out.

            • 1 vote
            #2.77 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 6:01 PM EST
            Kurt-449104

            Karen, no 91350 is Saugus, kinda near Magic Mountain & Valencia. Near the 5 & 14 freeways... , its a couple miles off any freeway, which might be one reason its stayed nice for the most part.

              #2.78 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 9:21 PM EST
              Karen in Los Angeles

              Kurt Dude - I am not a commuter as I live a very active life outside the office.

              I am not living in Valencia when I work in West Hollywood. PERIOD. It would take at least 2 hours to drive during traffic - and Tom Leykis is off the air.

              Like I said, the minimum price for a small condo is $500K in my neighborhood.

              • 1 vote
              #2.79 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 10:37 PM EST
              Kurt-449104

              Karen how far are you willing to drive? in 90069 you see condos for $380k and up... in zip code 90025 I see the same thing $390k and up. I'd personally rather live in the 90272 Pacific Palisades in a 3b/2b mfd/mobile/modular home right across from the beach for $400k (much less if you can bring in your own trailer and find an empty spot).

              It might cost you $2500 month, but if you're in the 90025 now you must be paying a pretty penny to rent. And prices aren't going to get much cheaper , maybe a little, but not much more.

              You also have Culver City $225k and up.

              Santa Monica $164k and up (most $225k to $350K good choices).

              Encino you have a ton of choices between $89k and $250k (38 to be exact)...

              w/pools, fireplaces, security gates... (and that leaves another $250k for your guard dog Leonna Helmsley fund !!! lol... )

              5-10 years from now, people who cant or dont buy will be kicking their own butts. That goes for stocks and real estate.

                #2.80 - Tue Mar 3, 2009 6:57 AM EST
                David Hogan

                What is this a new name for migrate people hiding out in schools?Give us a break.Homeless kids .You need to stop braind washing us with your feelings

                • 1 vote
                #2.81 - Tue Mar 3, 2009 8:27 AM EST
                Kurt-449104

                David, did you read the sidebar ALL were LEGAL.

                  #2.82 - Tue Mar 3, 2009 2:30 PM EST
                  Karen in Los Angeles

                  Maybe all the homeless students in the article were legal residents of the state.

                  That still does not negate the fact that we Californians are footing the bill for hundreds of thousands, if not millions, illegal aliens.

                  I am simply tired of it. I just did my mother's income taxes. She increased her IRA distributions by $3,000 for the year, which is less than 10% of her total income, but her taxes DOUBLED. She is 73 and retired.

                  I am tired of footing the bill for people who did not earn it. My mother was brought up on a farm during the Depression. She has a right to be retired, but why does she have to pay the bill for illegals?

                  • 3 votes
                  #2.83 - Tue Mar 3, 2009 4:10 PM EST
                  Kurt-449104

                  Karen I think we can all agree that no one wants to foot the bill for freeloaders... and if we have 15million illegals (not counting the one's who already received immunity)... and CA has 10% of the US population, we would have 1.5million illegals... and you know CA, AZ, NM, TX have more than our fair share of illegals. I think Reublicans gave them amnesty to keep everyones salary down. Its working too, a little to well I might add.

                    #2.84 - Thu Mar 5, 2009 9:59 PM EST
                    Kurt-449104

                    Karen , how did her taxes double? You need to see a CPA or sumtin... Unless she waited until she was over 70.5 to take her IRA distributions , and then and only them they'd tax you on what you didn't take (compared to the required minimum). No ones taxes have been raised yet.

                      #2.85 - Thu Mar 5, 2009 10:03 PM EST
                      Reply
                      copperpossum88

                       

                       

                       I do feel sympathy for the children,who are in a bad situation due to a parents' flawed decision-making; six kids by numerous men? The married couple with EIGHT children?Wouldn't 2 or 3 children sufficed? 'Oh,well,the taxpayers will feed/educate them'.

                      • 25 votes
                      #3 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 7:47 AM EST
                      Florida_kes

                      So what do you suggest? Means testing? If you can't afford kids, automatic sterilization?

                      • 8 votes
                      #3.1 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 8:24 AM EST
                      piglizard420

                      There goes the old taxpayer crap again. This has gotten so far beyond taxpayer. And how can you possibly equate losing your job due to extreme mismanagement and abuse of our economy by our country's leadership the "parent's flawed decision-making?" These situations are being forced upon the middle and lower classes by the rich gentry, sponsored exclusively by the last administration, in what can only be characterized as a modern day middle ages. You feel no sympathy, so don't pretend to.

                      • 11 votes
                      #3.2 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 8:35 AM EST
                      Eric-289829

                      so piglizard, you propose no restraint on reproduction because it is your right to reproduce without any planning?

                      If this were fifty years ago you would be still able to live off the land when jobs dried up but not so anymore. The logical choice to put risk assessment ahead of large families is not optional it is obvious.

                      • 7 votes
                      #3.3 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 9:05 AM EST
                      gillanator

                      Restraint on reproduction, Right to reproduce. How about regulations so the rich don't corrupt, keep financial preditors at bay so our economy doesn't get tanked by irresponsible CEO's trying to increase their portfolio at the expense of the American people and their repercussion is to get a tax a payer bailout. Now that is accountability ?

                      Granted some parents had made bad choices. But let's keep thinks in perspective. Lets keep our eye on the real problem. This is just fallout from the people that have really assulted this country.

                      • 8 votes
                      #3.4 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 9:22 AM EST
                      raederae

                      You should only have kids if you can afford them. I used to work in a OB/GYN office and it would disgust me when a woman would come in, pregnant again and show is her medicaid card that listed her six kids with six different dads. Who were obviously out of the picture since all the kids were on medicaid.

                      For those of you who thinks it is ok, why don't you take in one or two of these homeless kids and see who much it realy costs to have a child. There are plenty of places to get FREE birth control..condoms included to prevent this.

                      • 26 votes
                      #3.5 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 9:28 AM EST
                      DD50

                      rae - it's not ok, but for the kids' sakes - and to extend this sad scenario, isn't this a lovely example of how "Abstinence Only Sex Ed" would be (and is) a complete and utter joke? The people in the article, FYI, who are hispanic, are Catholic - and unless you are clueless, you know what that means. A Catholic run hospital won't even tie a woman's tubes if asked - what a crock.

                      • 13 votes
                      #3.6 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 10:05 AM EST
                      ChevsMark

                      Reproductive responsibility is just being responsible. There are numerous organizations who will assist with reproduction. Planned Parenthood comes to mind. But who am I kidding? The ones who are not responsible won't read this any way. And by the way, we only wanted 2 kids because we figured it was all we could afford. We ended up with 3, and before he was born I had a vasectomy.

                      DD50? Catholic hospitals do hysterectomy's.....

                      • 5 votes
                      #3.7 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 11:09 AM EST
                      Cyn-525813

                      I am as upset by the number of positive votes for this posting as I am by the article. How many of you would be so judgmental if the economy was fine? The family with 8 children is together with a mother and father, not some reckless or simple person who has children with multiple partners without marriage or support. Get off their case. That being said, we need to be only thinking of the children right now, not the morals or stupid choices of the 'adults'. (Its not about sex ed when the parents are in their late twenties plus. And you should figure it out pretty quick after the first or second pregnancy that birth control is a good idea)

                      And a special 'thumbs down' to the cousin who is renting an unheated garage to a family member with children. $150 is a lot of electricity and water....

                      • 1 vote
                      #3.8 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 11:11 AM EST
                      sumthin fishy

                      Folks:

                      The words "heartbreaking", "sympathy", "irresponsible", "greed", "choices" are popping up a lot in the posts above.

                      I do not think this rising homelessness is a big surprise, we should have known this was coming for a long time.

                      Of course this is touching for gosh sakes, who can not feel something for anybody on the street, especially a child who has little control over their fate. Only a monster would not feel something sympathetic. Yet in these really lousy economic times, don't we all try to see after the home fires first and try not to think about the circumstances of others around us?

                      It is easy to blame the individuals, especially if it is felt that they caused the problem for themselves due to irresponsibility leading to poor choices. What is harder to do is think about the reasons for this behavior and to conceive of ways to permanently change the direction of our country to steer clear of these obstacles in the future.

                      We have been very aware for well over 40 years that change to almost everything in the society of the planet must be reviewed and probably changed to insure any kind of quality life, yet there have been few gains in any major way on many of the major concerns, including and especially related to population control or living improvements for those without homes. Why have we turned our collective minds away from these obvious problems. Apparently excessively greedy behavior is a reason to continue with business as usual, unfortunately the fruits of this overarching avarice remain with a very few people and do not lead to any alteration of habits they depend on for profit motives.

                      Bear in mind, without a home, the next generation of homeless is merely being raised with ingrained issues that promote the same behavior. The cycle must be broken to be erased. Just complaining, or ignoring, or hoping it will go away is ineffective. Let's all hope we do not find ourselves in similar positions soon, but if we do, let us hope some one is concerned about us.

                      Good Luck.

                      • 6 votes
                      #3.9 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 11:15 AM EST
                      Un-Common Common Sense

                      The correct terminology is "Anchor Babies"

                      • 13 votes
                      #3.10 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 11:47 AM EST
                      DrowningGrover

                      "rae - it's not ok, but for the kids' sakes - and to extend this sad scenario, isn't this a lovely example of how "Abstinence Only Sex Ed" would be (and is) a complete and utter joke? The people in the article, FYI, who are hispanic, are Catholic - and unless you are clueless, you know what that means. A Catholic run hospital won't even tie a woman's tubes if asked - what a crock."

                      Shh, these are just facts and real world situations contributing to this problem. You are not supposed to use pieces of information like this when ranting with rightwingers...

                      • 6 votes
                      #3.11 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 12:23 PM EST
                      DD50

                      LOL! So true. The guy that thinks a hysterectomy is for sterilization - well, yes - at the veterinarian's office it is. Oh well.

                      • 2 votes
                      #3.12 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 12:31 PM EST
                      George-313012

                      Sumthin Fishy - The way to end the cycle is to cancel all welfare and the Democratic Party

                      • 7 votes
                      #3.13 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 12:45 PM EST
                      Deb-454574

                      I for one DO NOT feel sorry for these kids because their parent did this to them (or in the rare case when they have 2 parents). They chose to have kids they couldn't support, that's the bottom line. If they don't care about how they are going to provide for their kids, why should I?

                      • 9 votes
                      #3.14 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 12:51 PM EST
                      Jojo50

                      But they are kids. They did not ask for this. No compassion at all. what if, someday this might happen to you, and there won't be any compassion for your children. How would that make you fee, what if you lost your job, home and everything you owned.

                      • 3 votes
                      #3.15 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 1:01 PM EST
                      Deb-454574Deleted
                      Richard Baxter

                      This is what OBAMA'S America will be in just a few more years. WELFARE state.

                      • 4 votes
                      #3.17 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 1:19 PM EST
                      schwannomin

                      Good thing Bristol Palin was born into wealth. I couldn't imagine what would happen to that baby if her mom wasn't governor.

                      • 3 votes
                      #3.18 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 2:25 PM EST
                      tony-268769

                      More of the same...blame the "rich"...blame Washington, DC...blame those heartless working taxpayers who fork over 25-50% of their paychecks to help fund the parade of services made available to others who do nothing in this world but procreate and pass the pile of bills to others. Isn't it time just to blame George Bush ???

                      Maybe we should buy these people new computers so they can all follow the tales of "Octomom" and her two public relations agents...a great role model that can be emulated...a true "American Idol" for those with their hands stretched out, always pleading for more while making one dumb reproductive decision after another. After all, if not enough people are stepping forward to help with one's brood of six or seven kids, why not go for the gusto and really start putting up some big numbers.

                      For those of you who find opinions like this 'heartless' or 'greedy'... make yourselves happy and proud and dig down into your own individual pockets and start paying for this nonsense yourselves...and stop asking or demanding that others join you in that task via the continuing pillaging of their hard earned dollars by this nation's politicians.

                      • 4 votes
                      #3.19 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 2:57 PM EST
                      Laura in TX

                      I would support free birth control to anyone on public assistance (not mandated but very available and free). I would also support mandated sterilization to anyone who's had a baby born addicted to drugs. No second chances on the later! It's one thing to make bad decisions and ruin your own life but another to ruin your child's chance at a normal life. I would also support prosecuting mothers of drug addicted babies for child abuse.

                      • 5 votes
                      #3.20 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 3:17 PM EST
                      tony-268769

                      Laura...I agree.

                      • 1 vote
                      #3.21 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 3:55 PM EST
                      Karen in Los Angeles

                      If you can not afford children - DON'T HAVE THEM. It's really a simple concept.

                      I also support FREE BIRTH CONTROL because it sure is cheaper than taking care of 8 kids from birth through college.

                      • 3 votes
                      #3.22 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 4:45 PM EST
                      crossfire55

                      Karen

                      Carefull now. You don't want to offend the Christian extremists, do you? FREE BIRTH CONTROL is not politically correct in their eyes.

                      • 3 votes
                      #3.23 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 5:26 PM EST
                      skipster56

                      gillanator

                      "Restraint on reproduction, Right to reproduce. How about regulations so the rich don't corrupt,"

                      So, you are making an assumption that because we are wealthy, we are corrupt. You are making yourself the first three letters of my 6th word. I guess we can take it you are poor and believe you are owed what we worked for.

                      • 1 vote
                      #3.24 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 5:26 PM EST
                      Kurt-449104

                      Just as many here assume the poor are lazy or jobless, when actually they usually have more than one job. Unfortunately they work for rich, lazy or corrupt companies or employers.

                      • 2 votes
                      #3.25 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 9:25 PM EST
                      Kurt-449104

                      Hey George, when they cancel the Democratic Party as you wish for, then a monopoly will eat your business alive and you will piece a homeless piece of sh#t, just like those you judge so harshly. Right now your just a piece of sh#t with a house , and a big fat nose to look down upon others with.

                        #3.26 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 9:37 PM EST
                        Reply
                        raymond-392453

                        The Next Generation of Criminals by Necessity----"Escape from L.A."

                        • 9 votes
                        Reply#4 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 7:59 AM EST
                        LPJ-887011

                        This is the perfect scenario for young people to become criminals. And why not? food, shelter, heat, clothes, and plenty of time to work on your homework.

                        • 3 votes
                        #4.1 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 9:17 AM EST
                        ChevsMark

                        The largest sigment of unemployed people around L.A. are illegals, also the highest percentage of incarcerated. I have an idea, instead of jailing them deport them!

                        • 13 votes
                        #4.2 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 11:11 AM EST
                        Dun Trino

                        I have an idea, instead of jailing them deport them!

                        Why? So they can turn around and sneak back in the very next day and commit crimes? You haven't put much real thought into this problem, have you?

                        • 2 votes
                        #4.3 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 3:15 PM EST
                        Karen in Los Angeles

                        There was already a movie - Escape from L.A. - based on the Escape from N.Y. movie.

                        ChevsMark - this CA Girl agrees with you. If CA deported all the illegals living in our state, we would not have a budget crisis and we could get to work faster because they would not be using the roads.

                        I write to my legislators and governor every so often to remind them.

                        And Dun Trino - if that damn fence was finished, we would not have to worry about them coming back.

                        • 5 votes
                        #4.4 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 4:27 PM EST
                        skipster56

                        Can you imagine wealthy immigrants sneaking into America? The only people that try to sneak in are those that have nothing. As far as I am concerned, if they want what we have in the U.S. send them back to where they came from. Then they can organize a group to overthrow their government. When they succeed, they can then apply for statehood, then apply for the free money our government is handing out.

                        • 2 votes
                        #4.5 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 5:30 PM EST
                        Smokeysmom

                        So what you're saying is that if this were the 1930s, you'd be saying the same things about the Okies and their families?

                        • 1 vote
                        #4.6 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 5:37 PM EST
                        Reply
                        TIred of silly

                        Its a shame, and I hope more can be done to help citizens who have become homeless. I also hope people stop having so many children. How do you expect to raise and feed 6 and 6 kids?

                        • 4 votes
                        Reply#5 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 8:02 AM EST
                        Dr. Zook

                        People raise and feed six kids in Third World countries but they can't do the same thing in the wonderful USA, the greatest, richest country on Earth?  Do you not see something wrong with that picture?

                        I am personally not in favour of breeding like a bunny on an over-populated planet, but I really don't follow your reasoning here.

                        This has been a Dr. Zook post: "Just enough truth to be believable."

                        • 7 votes
                        #5.1 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 8:59 AM EST
                        Eric-289829

                        In third world countries the mortality rate takes care of the over production. Nature fixes what ignorance creates.

                        • 12 votes
                        #5.2 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 9:07 AM EST
                        hometowngirl-510510

                        also in 3rd world countries they have learnt self survival and living off the land, farming, trading and walking how many miles to wells etc, here in america we cannot be self sufficient, we have become a country with no self responsibilitiy and a feeling that we longer have to work for anything and when we dont the government will look after us

                        • 7 votes
                        #5.3 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 9:57 AM EST
                        George-313012

                        Anouther few months of Obama and the US will be a 3rd world country - so we can try out all these suggestions

                        • 4 votes
                        #5.4 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 12:50 PM EST
                        Cliff-342584Deleted
                        Smokeysmom

                        For Eric and Hometown: Oh, REALLY ? Have either of you been to India or Brazil and taken a good, hard look at the grinding poverty in the slums? Have you been to China lately, where the people who moved to factory towns that sprung up during China's recent manufacturing boom are now starving because the factories are shuttered and these people can't eat buy a bowl of rice? They certainly are NOT living off the land in any of those countries. You think you know so much -- go VISIT before you open your mouths.

                          #5.6 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 9:15 PM EST
                          Reply
                          PauliDeleted
                          Didn'tVoteForThisIdiot

                          All overseas money should be spent in this country helping OUR AMERICAN kids avoid this style of living. I also firmly believe that the parents should be held responsible for meeting strict guidelines so that baby factories are done away with. As it is now, some people are producing kids just to get a free hand out... and most of the time it works for awhile.

                          • 15 votes
                          Reply#7 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 8:09 AM EST
                          Bob-434277Deleted
                          DD50

                          And someone - memo the Pope.

                          • 3 votes
                          #7.2 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 10:08 AM EST
                          Marty From ModestoDeleted
                          skipster56

                          What you are saying is correct. "Only works for a little while" the problem is the mdia throws it in our faces. Why doesn't the media step up to the plate and do something for them. Oh. I forgot. They are like the government and only think of themselves.

                          • 2 votes
                          #7.4 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 5:36 PM EST
                          Reply
                          SFree1

                          I agree I mean how many children do people need to have if they cannot financially support them.....in all reality though only God can judge her....I feel sad for the kids.

                            Reply#8 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 8:21 AM EST
                            Dwater

                            You can't bash Bush anylonger. Obama is pledging $900 Million to rebuild Gaza and those Hamas @!$%#s are today, again shooting rockets and mortars at Israel....right after getting their asses kicked by Israel two months ago. $900 million would build substantial Safe Haven camps for temporary housing of homeless families. Bare necessity shelter with beds, kitchens, showers, laundry and power. In the 30s there were Hoovervilles across California; ramshackle camps of homeless and jobless living in squalid tents and tarpaper shacks. We can do better.

                            • 19 votes
                            #9 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 8:23 AM EST
                            rdixiesunrise61

                            They need to set up tent cities in Washington DC again to get some action. Right there at the mall and in Obamas face!

                            • 5 votes
                            #9.1 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 8:25 AM EST
                            will-793570Expand Comment Comment collapsed by the community

                            You can blame Bush-Cheney. They ran up this bill, President Obama has to get us out of. You didn't open up your mouth then. So Sit back and watch a real President work.

                            • 10 votes
                            #9.2 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 8:48 AM EST
                            TIred of silly

                            We didn't have a real one with Bush, and we still do not have a real one with Obama.

                            • 3 votes
                            #9.3 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 8:54 AM EST
                            troy1Deleted
                            Cyn-525813

                            A person who has to make a childish reference to the President's middle name has no credibility...period.

                            • 5 votes
                            #9.5 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 11:14 AM EST
                            macaddict

                            Yes, we still blame bush, because he did NOTHING to help the economy.

                            He started the wars in Afganistan, and Iraq, he turned a blind eye while huge banks and other investment companies ran their businesses into the ground, while CEO's were getting hundreds of millions of dollars every year just in bonuses. He stiffled alternative energy. What else would you like, I could go on all day.

                            • 6 votes
                            #9.6 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 11:16 AM EST
                            crossfire55

                            macaddict

                            Good post! I know you could go on all day and I would, most likely, agree with you. This mess was brought on by 8 years of lame leadership and it's time to set the course in a different direction. Of course, those who profited by 8 years of foolishness will not be receptive to it, but let's move on without their approval.

                            • 3 votes
                            #9.7 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 11:29 AM EST
                            mommhill6

                            Amen!

                              #9.8 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 11:37 AM EST
                              xrayspex

                              Actually the Taliban and al-Queda started the war in Afghanistan by sponsoring an attack that killed 3000 of our citizens.In Iraq Saddam Hussein had 12 years to comply with agreements he made to get our foot out of his a** (not that we couldn't have waited).As for your other points,fine point taken but don't forget to add Harry and Nancy had 2 years in charge before everything went to s**t.

                              • 6 votes
                              #9.9 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 11:44 AM EST
                              DrowningGrover

                              "Still blaming Bush...same old liberal rhetoric. I suppose after the fool Hussein fiscally buries this nation, it will still yet be Bush's fault"

                              It is laughable to suggest that the problems being faced in this country right now are not a direct result of policies and decisions made during the Bush administration.

                              Absolutely.... laughable...

                              "As for your other points,fine point taken but don't forget to add Harry and Nancy had 2 years in charge before everything went to s**t."

                              two years with a Republican president who would veto anything the D's tried to get passed, except they couldn't even get ANYTHING passed because they had literally the slimmest possible majority one could have. We had two years of stalemate, not two years of Democratic rule. Get it straight!

                              • 1 vote
                              #9.10 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 12:25 PM EST
                              crossfire55

                              xrayspex

                              Just for the record, those killed in 9/11 were not ALL our citizens. Many of them were from other countries, including Arabs. Saddam Hussien was an evil man, but he and Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11. Our invasion of Iraq was in no way connected with the events of 9/11. The only Americans who benefitted from our invasion of Iraq were companies like Haliburton, Blackwater, and Exxon Mobil. It was all a farce perpetrated on the American people by Bush/Cheney.

                              • 4 votes
                              #9.11 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 12:26 PM EST
                              George-313012

                              Crossfire -

                              The mess started with LBJ and continued with Nixon, Carter, Clinton, GWB and Obama. They are all losers. LBJ started the only war the US every lost and created the welfare state. Nixon was too busy being a crook to do much of anything else. Carter started the subprime mess with his CRA. Clinton trying to wreck the country with universal health care - but the Reb congress stopped him. GWB spent trillions and started a useless war. Obama is continuing where GWB left off - destroying the US economy

                              • 4 votes
                              #9.12 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 1:10 PM EST
                              tony-268769

                              Dwater....How about if we spend the money to rebuild Gaza and then send families like that of Ms. Aguilar over there to live...rent-free. The Aguilar clan would have no interest in firing mortars at the Israelis so hostilities shoud cease and since the Palestinians are supposedly so persecuted, folks like Ms. Aguilar and those in her corner should feel right at home.

                                #9.13 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 4:09 PM EST
                                doubting thomas 1

                                macaddict and crossfire55

                                "Yes, we still blame bush, because he did NOTHING to help the economy. "

                                Yes, I agree with the comments about CEOs and Wars (at least partially).

                                But, most of you liberals (sorry if you are not) do not give the facts to back up your statements. Maybe you both are too young to remember what was happening to our economy right after 9/11. The economy was sinking fast, unemployment was growing. Bush and company had several stimulus bills and acitivities and grew the economy by over 1 million jobs that had been lost.

                                I know eight years is a long time and most Americans tend to forget what happened last week, but let's try to stay with the historical events.

                                • 1 vote
                                #9.14 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 4:41 PM EST
                                oldmustang42

                                DrowningGrover,

                                two years with a Republican president who would veto anything the D's tried to get passed,

                                Please provide a list of all bills that Democrats pushed through Congress that would have helped to solve or prevent the current situation only to have Bush veto since they took control of Congress.

                                except they couldn't even get ANYTHING passed because they had literally the slimmest possible majority one could have. We had two years of stalemate, not two years of Democratic rule.

                                And yet, according to you Republicans were able to push through any legislation they wanted with the same 'slimmest possible majority'. How exactly is that possible?

                                • 1 vote
                                #9.15 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 4:45 PM EST
                                crossfire55

                                George

                                Most people like you tend to go back in history to shift the blame for 8 years of failure by the Bush bunch. If what you are saying has any merit, and I'm not saying it does, then why in the world did not the Bush bunch undo that mess? They had 8 YEARS and a friendly congress for 6 of those years. Quit pointing fingers and come back into the present.

                                • 1 vote
                                #9.16 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 4:46 PM EST
                                Kurt-449104

                                good point CrossFire55... were they that impotent to accomplish nothing good and lasting in 8 years? Since 1969 Repubs have ruled their kingdom with an iron fist and a philosophy of let them eat cake for 28 years... with all their brilliance(Repubs) and all the buffoons (Democrats are buffoons right Repubs?)

                                  #9.17 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 10:28 PM EST
                                  Corie

                                  Dwater

                                  Obama is pledging $900 Million to rebuild Gaza...$900 million would build substantial Safe Haven camps for temporary housing of homeless families

                                  I'll bet that $900 million, when added to the $2 billion he is going to spend on defeating al Qaeda (by globally providing non-extremist schools for Islamic kids) would be enough to support many of the illegal and legal children (homeless or not) in California.

                                  According to many news sites, Obama plans to;

                                  defeat al Qaeda...by returning to an American foreign policy consistent with America’s traditional values and by working with moderates within the Islamic world to counter al Qaeda propaganda. Barack Obama will establish a $2 billion Global Education Fund to work to eliminate the global education deficit and offer an alternative to extremist schools

                                  The above quote was taken from http://sweetness-light.com/archive/obama-give-terrorists-2-billion-for-education, although it is the exact quote found on many other sites.

                                  Why should Obama help homeless American kids when there are Islamic kids who need new schools in other countries?

                                  I think we could help some of the homeless kids if we could convince one of the democrats to sneak an earmark for them into the next billion/trillion dollar bill Obama signs. Earmarks have been added for many other things that really don't help the people - maybe they would consider helping homeless kids as important as diminishing pig manure odor or helping potentially-homeless mice.

                                  • 1 vote
                                  #9.18 - Wed Mar 4, 2009 1:59 AM EST
                                  Reply
                                  rdixiesunrise61

                                  I feel sorry for those kids that have to live like that. As for the poster above who said that the family should not have had 8 kids...apparently they could afford them WHEN THEY WERE WORKING! But they both got laid off and they went for help BEFORE they ended up on the streets.

                                  I feel sorry for Daniel and his family who have to live in their cousins garage but it is better than on the streets. I don't understand why they have to leave during the day though. That is so stupid. Why can't her cousin offer a place inside the house? Are they ashamed of them? The article didn't state why the garage and not a place in the home. I can understand that there may not be room but I don't understand why they can not go into the home to take care of needs. When I first started to read this I thought they were there illegally. Maybe they are in the state of California but I am sure that the state will overlook this since it is an epidemic. If she gets 1300.00 a month in some sort of help what is she doing with the money? The state needs to find this deadbeat dad and get money from him for these kids. He probably went back to Mexico.

                                  • 9 votes
                                  Reply#10 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 8:23 AM EST
                                  Mike-501780Deleted
                                  DD50

                                  The article said they try to make themselves scarce around the garage so as to be undetected. As for her assistance, she has like $1350 a month after paying the cousin (does seem kinda bad to charge her), so under $340 a week left to try and feed all those kids, plus whatever clothes, school supplies, etc., they may need. And she was trying to find work, but she needs that job training - maybe she could work for the school system.

                                  The deadbeat dad issue seems like it will never go away, regardless of ethnic background. Most states have a department to deal with that, but if the guys went back to Mexico, oh well - Mexico has bigger fish to fry these days.

                                  • 7 votes
                                  #10.2 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 10:20 AM EST
                                  jeeesus

                                  hello, poverty/ homelessness is not a race or ethnic issue..it affects many good Americans..times are hard, peoples hearts are hard..please don't damn the unfortunate ones..they been caught in the web of crisis economics..joblessness is at a all time high, credit is scarce and maybe no longer available to most..people are losing their homes, from all directions..this is hell for many, don't kick them when there down..the narcissistic behavior of the uncompassionate is so very mean..if you don't have something, positive or nice to say..please keep it to yourself..condemnation is judging, and is not very smart..if your life is good, that is wonderful/ great!! be happy with your blessings, bragging, better than thou attitudes suck..humility is cherished, please try to have a good day..I believe most don't want handouts, they just want to work........

                                  • 1 vote
                                  #10.3 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 3:36 PM EST
                                  IMMIGRATIONFORYOUDeleted
                                  DD50

                                  What's E verify?

                                    #10.5 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 6:28 PM EST
                                    IMMIGRATIONFORYOUDeleted
                                    Reply
                                    eastern

                                    The problem with funding the California school system is the same problem with funding all of its "social programs". Illegal immigration has taken a toll on California's finances, now they want the rest of America to bail them out because they are irresponsible. They are criminals, because whether they hold a gun to my head or have the federal government do it, they are stealing from the rest of the taxpayers to pay for their faults. Over taxing me for things I do not support against my will is robbery.

                                    What is the matter with right wing, hypocrit church goer republicans ?????

                                    Well you are what is wrong with the churches, churches are charged in the bible to take care of the needy, homeless, sick and orphans. You as a liberal freak who does not understand what the charge or what the true meaning behind seperation of church and state has caused a bigger mess then you know how to solve. You have put into place government to run orphanges, help the sick, and help the homeless. Government cannot do this properly or efficiently due to the laws of bureaucracy. This ultimately is the falacy of the liberal (socialist) way of thinking. Instead of gaining understanding, knowledge, or wisdom they react with government. Could the church as a whole do a better job? Certainly and you would have to be an idiot to think otherwise. That process should be aided though not hindered and definitely not replaced (as it has been) by social programs that are inefficient and ineffective.

                                    More money need to be used to create good programs to help the most unfortunates !! this is the 21st century, these tragedies should no longer exist, not in america !!

                                    You call your "happy socialist", I don't think you can find a socialist country with happy people in it. Everytime I see people write stuff like this I realize they are ignorant and immature. You are a child, maybe not in chronological years but in mental development definitely. To suggest you want to be a socialist means that you do not understand anything about true socialism. Our society was built upon the "opportunity" to suceed not the "right" to succeed. You are bitter because you are a failure and the only one who caused you to fail is you. That is a hard thing to live with and now you want everyone to be "equal". Eventhough you already have "equal" opportunity you want what someone else has or you don't want anyone to have it. That is sad and horrible, You are sad and horrible.

                                    • 20 votes
                                    #11 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 8:33 AM EST
                                    bajangirl53Expand Comment Comment collapsed by the community

                                    eastern

                                    You are the one who is sad and horrible! You are attributing thoughts to "happysocialist" that the poster never expressed. You have a great imagination.

                                    As to "I don't think you can find a socialist country with happy people in it"..........that's just the problem; you can only "not think", because you obviously haven't travelled enough to know anything different. Travel and learn, and stop posting your ignorance!

                                    • 11 votes
                                    #11.1 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 8:57 AM EST
                                    Eric-289829

                                    OK baja, name a socialist country that is full of happy people. Come on, just one shouldn't be too difficult.

                                    • 12 votes
                                    #11.2 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 9:12 AM EST
                                    bajangirl53Restored

                                    Hey Eric, ever visit France?? Can't find a much happier people than the French! I spent 24 years among them. You could learn a lot!!

                                    • 5 votes
                                    #11.3 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 9:15 AM EST
                                    eastern

                                    26% unemployment in France and have you ever been to a French ghetto? They are not happy, I lived there and in Sweden for over 8 years. I lived in Europe in total for over 13 years. How long did you live there baj? You have visited I'm sure, seen the malls and talked to the locals. Put your kids in school there, pay thier crazy tax rate, and get crappy healthcare. When you have done all of this please let me know, I don't speak out of ignorance but out of experience.

                                    Oh are you asking Eric two questions ?? or just one?

                                    • 8 votes
                                    #11.4 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 9:36 AM EST
                                    jazzie2010

                                    bajangirl53.....You are wasting your breath talking to heartless idiots. One day, they too, may end up on the streets hungry and cold and there will be someone just as heartless as they are who willfeel the same way about them. Then who will be looking for a hand-out????

                                    • 7 votes
                                    #11.5 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 9:43 AM EST
                                    eastern

                                    Good point jazzie. One day I may end up without a job and homeless, it is not tottaly out of the realm of possibility. If I did I would look to my church and family for support, not the government. I would look inside myself and determine where my failures lie and how to solve them. I would pick myself up and then succeed again, oh by the way, I have already done this once when I was laid off by GE in 1992. So from experience I know this formula works. this is how I ended up moving to Sweden to take a job in the first place.

                                    • 13 votes
                                    #11.6 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 9:54 AM EST
                                    DD50

                                    You're right jazzie. And the day that will come, I predict, will be when the Social Security fund crashes and burns, right along with Medicare. The youth of today, if not helped in their time of need, will not be able to help tomorrow's elders in theirs. Oh well!

                                    • 1 vote
                                    #11.7 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 10:25 AM EST
                                    happysocialist985Deleted
                                    eastern

                                    Wow, you obviously didn't read, I did live in Sweden. I do know a few things about business too, Norway is becoming a more capitalist country then we are here in the US. The defining thing that marks a country as as socialist or capitalist tends to be the governemt expenditures as a percent of GDP. You can look it up Norway gets a ton of its income from oil and is spending less on government entitlements. The socialist model is failing and turning directly to a capitalist model. Because it works and raises everyones standard of living. Understanding how to win and lose does not make us idiots or selfish, but being lazy and depending on government to help you does.

                                    Why did you want to go to Norway to get better government benefits since France's kinda suck?

                                    • 5 votes
                                    #11.9 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 11:23 AM EST
                                    crossfire55

                                    eastern,

                                    TRUE capitalism works, but this country has not been functioning under TRUE capitalism , but rather we have been functioning under a form of Fascism, ( the military contractors in bed with the government.) So your argument doesn't apply.

                                    • 3 votes
                                    #11.10 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 11:35 AM EST
                                    Richie-416314

                                    Well if capitalism really works why are we in this mess everything from high wages and gas prices come from capitalism, So how good is it working, people need to grow a brain. People here will say it's all because people bought homes they could not afford well try this, greedy people gave loans to push up the market value of homes and they only cared about the money they could make and guess what that's capitalism. It was all about personal gain, pure greed, I hope all the greedy people lose everything and end up living on the street like these people..

                                    • 1 vote
                                    #11.11 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 11:58 AM EST
                                    eastern

                                    crossfire,

                                    I do think we have not been operating under "true" capitalism for a long time, if we were we would be a completely neutral country making money off all side of every conflict. we tend to choose sides, alot of the time the most lucrative. I am not saying we do not have flaws and they should not be addressed. I am saying we need to lean more to the small government and limited entitlements.

                                    I think to call us Fascist is a bit extreme and obviously said with no consideration for people who suffered through real fascism, people in pre-war Nazi Germany and Italy. Those people were treated harshly and without remorse.

                                    I think you need to review the definition fo fascism and realize it is a dictatorship that looks to promote violence against minorities and those percieved as the weak in society. Not give all "opportunity". It is also run by a dictatorship not a republic (our current government) and freedom of speech is violently stamped out, which we are all enjoying here today (freedom of speech).

                                    Since I was speaking of socialism and entitlements and your point speaks to a misguided attempt to make this about fascism that you clearly do not understand, I think we know your point is invalid.

                                    • 4 votes
                                    #11.12 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 12:00 PM EST
                                    crossfire55

                                    eastern

                                    I didn't say we were operating under Fascism. I said we were operating under a "form" of Fascism. Our middle class working people are not being "treated harshly", but for the past 8 years they have been ignored by the administration. Our system of government was approaching Fascism. I've studied Socialism and Fascism and in my opinion, we were rapidly approaching a form of Fascism. Freedom of speech was slowly, but surely being "stamped out." If you were against the Bush policies, you were called unpatriotic. And as for "opportunity" where has the opportunity for working class Americans to live the "American dream" gone? It just isn't there anymore. So if you want to call my point "invalid", I don't have a problem with that. You too still have the right ot express YOUR opinions.

                                    • 1 vote
                                    #11.13 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 12:43 PM EST
                                    eastern

                                    Crossfire: Ok well if we are done telling each other their opinions/points are invalid then we can discuss things more productively.

                                    I agree that under some Bush policies, especially the treatment of media in relation to the war was inappropriate. I do however believe that there is enough blame to go around on all sides. I think the media plays that up a bit too.

                                    I guess the freedom of speech we still have in this country needs to be put into perspective, is freedom of speech wearing a t-shirt that says "I hate <insert political or religous/racial/ethnic group>" Or is it the ability to speak out against tyranical government and report on their inefficiencies? Maybe both? I think one incites people to hate the other is hated by politicians but they want to confuse the two and make them seem the same. This directly relates to schools, homelessness, taxes, socialism, and any other hot buttons. Instead of addressing an issue, like homelessness. It is turned into a racial, religous, or political commentary. My point was maybe not as clear as I wanted it to be.

                                    Here it is in a nutshell, some have commented in this forum that the people in the article are citizens, I could not find a clear answer to this in the article but I will assume they are for sake of argument. The people in this article cannot find good temporary relief from a terrible situation because of the mismanagement of government in California. There is too much money spent on illegal immigrants therefore not enough left to help those actual citizens in need. (I know some pay taxes but some don't) Because there is not enough money due to government mismangement, California wants the rest of America to pay for their mistakes and their social programs. That is socialism. Socialism fails where ever it is tried and eventually they move back to capitalism. I do not believe given true understanding of socialism this is the road most Americans would want to take. Churches are charged with taking care of this temporary relief, they have been restricted from doing so in the name of seperation of church and state. This should be corrected, churches need to do a better job and they should. This is one of a churches primary duties and it has been forsaken. If promoted as such and set up in this way the pains of homlessness would not disapear but could probably be lessened.

                                    Richie: Greed is what is glorified. There is a reason greed is one of the seven deadly sins, because it consumes men and destroys their perception of right and wrong. If being humble and responsible were glorified then that would lead to a better capitalistic model. Economics and government are just a reflection of society.

                                    • 2 votes
                                    #11.14 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 1:53 PM EST
                                    Laura in TX

                                    Here are the rules of success in life as I learned them--so far they have worked pretty well:

                                    Study hard in school and take hard classes--math and science will set you apart from the humanities majors who end up managing KFC and defaulting on their $100K student loans. Art and music may be interesting and make you more fun to talk to at cocktail parties but a decent engineering/science degree will almost guarentee you a > $50K/yr job. (which is better than the $7.00/hr your roommate who majored in political science will be making)

                                    Marry a nerd or geek. They earn more and appreciate being loved.

                                    Don't take drugs or commit crimes--your future employer may do a background check on you.

                                    Look for a job with health insurance, even if it pays less in the beginning.

                                    Work hard and save all you can because someday you may lose your good job to foreign workers in India. Look into what your COBRA payments might be and have at least 6 months worth of those saved up in addition to basic living expenses.

                                    Have kids only when you can afford them...BTW they are expensive! Childcare is $200 per week or more per kid in many cities!

                                    Don't expect anyone else or the government to EVER help you--they will promise the world and give you nothing.

                                    Expect the rest of society to punish you for working so hard and the government to tax you about 40%. Buy a house if you want to shelter some of this but only a house you can EASILY afford. Donlt forget the added expenses of owning a home.

                                    Expect to hear many sad stories about other people who did not follow this advice.

                                    • 3 votes
                                    #11.15 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 4:09 PM EST
                                    Karen in Los Angeles

                                    Eastern - my family lives in New York (east coast) where I was raised.

                                    When I bring up how I want illegals deported and how I am totally against amnesty for illegals, friends of the east coast family tell me I am incorrect and should have sympathy.

                                    That is because NONE of the eastern states (except Florida) have the number of illegals living in their state that we in CA, AZ and TX do.

                                    I hope you tell your friends to tell their FEDERAL legislators to say NO TO AMNESTY because every legislator on the east coast almost got the amnesty bill passed.

                                    PLEASE - PLEASE - tell all your friends because you are in the minority.

                                    • 5 votes
                                    #11.16 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 4:32 PM EST
                                    crossfire55

                                    Karen

                                    Your post makes a lot of sense, especially since you live in CA. CA is broke because they have spent millions in handouts to illegals and their children.

                                    • 3 votes
                                    #11.17 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 4:51 PM EST
                                    TaxSlaveRevolt1Deleted
                                    rhondamom

                                    I live in CA and would like to formally apologize to those of you who have to pay more taxes to bail us out. I tried to vote our dysfunctional legislature out, but I am outnumbered. This state is sinking fast. Unfortunately, there is the saying "as California goes, so goes the country". I hope it isn't true.

                                    We definately need to have the bulk of charity come from the private sector. Liberals think the government should fix things, but it only makes things worse. I think that liberals mistakenly call coservatives "uncaring" about the less fortunate when what we would like to see is the government getting out of the charity business. Conservatives give more to charity, putting their money where there mouth is.

                                    • 2 votes
                                    #11.19 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 5:21 PM EST
                                    crossfire55

                                    rhondamom

                                    There was also once a saying that went, "As General Motors goes, so goes the country." GM is in big trouble now because, beginning with Reagan, successive administrations have opened the door to unfair foreign competition in the American market place. As for Conservatives giving more to charity, I find that a bit of a stretch since most conservatives I know are really tight with a buck.

                                    • 1 vote
                                    #11.20 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 5:39 PM EST
                                    rhondamom

                                    I have read differing opinions on the whole "unfair" foreign trade problem, but both sides make compelling arguments so I can't give you anything on that point.

                                    As for conservatives giving more to charity, it's very true and I'll look for the study and post it for you tomorrow since my lunch break is over.

                                      #11.21 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 6:38 PM EST
                                      rodzmtnangel

                                      my husband and i also live in california, albeit in the foothills of the sierra nevadas. we both grew up in the state and have seen enough! we have even considered moving to another state, preferably one that isn't being strangled by illegals or the offspring there of. over the years my husband has been unable to even get a job washing dishes ( he was a fireman before being injured on the job) restaurant owners would rather hire a mexican because they will work for less money. i've had to work 2 jobs just to keep us afloat, and because one store i work at is getting ready to close we will only have my one job to support us.

                                      as soon as we can we are moving out of this state and we hope it falls into the fricken ocean and pray it will take all the illegals with it!!!

                                      that said does anyone know how Nevada is doing job wise??

                                      • 1 vote
                                      #11.22 - Tue Mar 3, 2009 1:24 AM EST
                                      Reply
                                      IAmJane

                                      Haven't these folks ever heard of "birth control"! It is impossible even under the best of circumstances to feed, cloth and educate such large families. All they are doing is propergating more of the same! Their children will grow and we will have another round of children on the public dole.

                                      All the financial and material help in the world will not help these individuals one bit, if they do not help themselves and prevent all these additional births. It just will mean more on the already overburden welfare system. American taxpayers are getting quite tired of constantly increasing tax revenues to pay for those who will not help themselves!

                                        Reply#12 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 8:34 AM EST
                                        arthur l

                                        i live in a rural area with 65% black. i feel sorry for the fatherless children running around in the streets while the mom puts the checks into the video machines every month. if it were not for the grandparents, these kids would starve probably. i know it happens in all races, it is just that i see this every day. these children donot have a chance to succed, the mom curses white people all day because she has to live in poverty and the children pick it up. it is a pity. that is one problem hobama needs to work on. but him and michell would probably deny that this is happening all over America

                                        • 17 votes
                                        Reply#13 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 8:38 AM EST
                                        jazzie2010

                                        Barack and Michelle Obama do not live all over America, they live in Washington,D.C. Why don't you just send an e-mail to the white house telling the president of your concerns or write a letter to him? But no, you would rather complain about them not caring about these people.

                                        • 4 votes
                                        #13.1 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 9:48 AM EST
                                        Jan-357844

                                        You think Obama is going to listen to anyone but the Wicked Witch from the West, Reid and Queer Barney? And just what is the white house's email address. I'd like to send them one.

                                        • 3 votes
                                        #13.2 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 10:28 AM EST
                                        kristin-743590

                                        whitehouse.gov

                                        • 1 vote
                                        #13.3 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 10:39 AM EST
                                        Jan-357844

                                        Thank you Kristin

                                          #13.4 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 10:46 AM EST
                                          Paige-502377

                                          Remember OBama has handlers that won't let him read any negative mail so don't count on yours getting through

                                          • 4 votes
                                          #13.5 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 11:33 AM EST
                                          crossfire55

                                          Paige

                                          Unlike Bush, Obama goes out among the people and actually listens to their concerns. As for the mail, very few Presidents have had the time to read every bit of mail that has been sent to them, so you might as well get off that kick.

                                          • 4 votes
                                          #13.6 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 11:38 AM EST
                                          Laura in TX

                                          Obama does not seem to be listening to the many people who do not want America to be a socialist country. Maybe he is too busy paying for all those liberal votes of people who prefer not to work. He sure seems to be really good at giving away other people's hard earned money!

                                          • 2 votes
                                          #13.7 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 5:55 PM EST
                                          crossfire55

                                          Laura

                                          You seem to have a problem with socialism when it applies to working class Americans, but you don't seem to have any problems with socialism when it applies to large corporations. The large corporations are the ones who have been stealing the hard earned money of Americans.

                                          • 1 vote
                                          #13.8 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 7:01 PM EST
                                          IMMIGRATIONFORYOUDeleted
                                          Reply
                                          JF New Jersey

                                          These are the same alien invasions that brought about the fall of Rome and other great empires.

                                          • 8 votes
                                          Reply#14 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 8:41 AM EST
                                          jazzie2010

                                          And your source of information is...........???????????????????????????????????????????

                                          • 2 votes
                                          #14.1 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 9:50 AM EST
                                          Dawn-859541

                                          And it depends on which fall of Rome you are talking about. The Empire failed three times.

                                          And it was out-sourcing of merchants to fight their wars that caused the major collapses.

                                          • 1 vote
                                          #14.2 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 12:10 PM EST
                                          Karen in Los Angeles

                                          It is tough sending emails to the White House. The space is limited. I usually have to send one rant at a time.

                                          • 1 vote
                                          #14.3 - Tue Mar 3, 2009 4:11 PM EST
                                          Reply
                                          Bob-434277

                                          I might have missed it in the article - did they mention if any of these people were NOT USA citizens?

                                          • 6 votes
                                          Reply#15 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 8:47 AM EST
                                          LPJ-887011

                                          They are all legal US residents

                                          • 3 votes
                                          #15.1 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 9:23 AM EST
                                          Bob-434277

                                          Wow, I am as surprised as anyone.

                                            #15.2 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 9:58 AM EST
                                            Koldwindblows-856274

                                            The subject of citizenship was not addressed. These posts claiming that they are all legal US citizens are unsubstantiated. The article never said that.

                                            • 9 votes
                                            #15.3 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 10:08 AM EST
                                            Bronwen

                                            Koldwind - I just read the article through again, and you are 100% correct. Nowhere does it mention whether or not the families are legal. The very fact that it is omitted from the article tells me that they are illegal - typical media bias writing.

                                            I am just amazed at this propaganda - we get it all the time when it comes to illegal aliens.

                                            • 4 votes
                                            #15.4 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 10:26 AM EST
                                            LPJ-887011

                                            "While the subjects interviewed for this article on homelessness were legal residents or citizens of the United States, "

                                            taken from the side bar on the article, 3rd page

                                            • 2 votes
                                            #15.5 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 10:29 AM EST
                                            LPJ-887011

                                            sorry, I read the article on MSNBC, not newsvine, where their US Citizenship is included.

                                            • 2 votes
                                            #15.6 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 10:41 AM EST
                                            happysocialist985Deleted
                                            macaddict

                                            It matters a great deal. In economic times like these, you have to be tough. If they are illegals then send them back to where ever they came from.

                                            • 7 votes
                                            #15.8 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 11:22 AM EST
                                            Dun Trino

                                            The fact that ya'll were just raring to jump on the anti-illegal band wagon just because they are of Mexican descent proves your racism.

                                              #15.9 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 3:23 PM EST
                                              Bernie-548913

                                              Dun Trino: I agree. A lot of these posts show how bigoted & racist some of these people are. They have low reading comprehension & it shows in their ignorant posts. Answering their post is like talking to the neighborhood dog, in one ear & out the other.

                                              • 1 vote
                                              #15.10 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 3:31 PM EST
                                              Kurt-449104

                                              Tough times, bring out the worst in people and the best in people... Who will I be, who will you be , who will we be for the next 8-10 years???

                                              Invest in solar, wind and lets tax the hell out of China to use it when the Russians & Saudia's cut them off.

                                              • 1 vote
                                              #15.11 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 3:51 PM EST
                                              Reply
                                              Ashamed of peoples stupidityDeleted
                                              woodsman1stDeleted
                                              John Moss-931095

                                              STOP...this is not about Republicans or Democrats, Liberals, or Conservatives. I am just plain sick and tired of my tax dollars being used to feed, house and school illegal immigrants period. Why would anyone have 4, 5, 6 children when they know in there heart that they can never support them properly? Oh yes of course....lets go to the US, have are babies where they are automaticly US citizens. This tax payers can not afford or be expected to foot the bill for this tide of people from the south.

                                              • 17 votes
                                              Reply#18 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 8:52 AM EST
                                              Koldwindblows-856274

                                              Right on John!!

                                              • 3 votes
                                              #18.1 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 10:18 AM EST
                                              FROID

                                              It's simple. Quit paying your taxes. Taxing us on our income is illegal anyway.

                                              • 3 votes
                                              #18.2 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 10:26 AM EST
                                              GregL-671049

                                              Froid,

                                              You first...Let us know how that works for you...

                                              • 1 vote
                                              #18.3 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 3:17 PM EST
                                              Bridget M

                                              Absolutely correct John. No responsibility or accountability..they just keep having children they cant support and rely on the government to take care of them.

                                              Abstinence works..

                                              • 2 votes
                                              #18.4 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 6:34 PM EST
                                              Corie

                                              John Moss-931095

                                              tax payers can not afford or be expected to foot the bill for this tide of people from the south.

                                              Get used to it. Remember, Obama promised to grant amnesty to illegals from all countries, and plans to do so before the 2010 census is taken. He wants more democrat votes by then & to have Emanuel redraw the voting district lines to make as many democrat-majority districts as possible, using the census. Obama learned to do this when he was a senator and got hold of the 2000 census - he figured out how to redraw voting district lines for his own purpose - which worked. He was able to have district lines redrawn so many Whites, Asians, and Hispanics were disenfranchised & Black voters would be the majority in as many districts as Obama could control. That is common knowledge & no longer a secret. Redrawing district lines in Illinois was easily accomplished by him - now he knows how easy it will be to redraw districts in the entire USA.

                                              This time he'll have voting district lines redrawn to include a majority of democrats in as many areas as possible. Instead of working to disenfranchise Whites, he will work to disenfranchise non-democrat Whites. Instead of working to disenfranchise Hispanics, he will count on the millions of Hispanics/Latinos that used to be illegal to vote as his workers tell them to vote. I expect his minions will make sure the illegals are given homes all over the USA (once they get amnesty & become citizens) and will be registered as democrats (like Clinton's party made sure of in his huge amnesty), in order to help ensure that the voting district redraw shows them, and their relatives, as a majority in any district that is currently shown as not having a democrat majority.

                                              The amnesty will not stop the influx of illegals into the USA, just like the amnesty granted by Reagan and the ones granted by Clinton did not stop illegals from swarming here. It was the complete opposite - the amnesties encouraged more illegals to come, knowing that there is, on average, another amnesty granted about every 10 years.

                                              We actually probably will not have a long-continuing problem with many more illegals coming here in the future. Emanuel supports Obama's desire for open borders for Mexico, Canada, and the USA. No more nasty illegals anywhere, when all are allowed to travel freely to all 3 countries.

                                              Looks like Obama picked the right person to make sure his promised amnesty will go off without any problems for him. Emanuel is the same person who, in 1992, told Clinton to pass an amnesty and told Clinton that he could quickly make sure there would be hundreds of thousands of new democrat voters (by the end of 1996), if Clinton would

                                              exploit the issue of immigration for his political advantage...swiftly naturalize the ever-growing number of non-citizen immigrants residing in the U.S., he would have a “great opportunity” to increase the pool of potential voters who might support his re-election bid in 1996...to fast-track the naturalization process for both legal and illegal immigrants before the 1996 election...regardless of their immigration status or criminal history.

                                              Emanuel and Clinton made sure many new democrats were granted amnesty - so many that at just one area in Chicago, many thousands of people were given citizenship at in a single process which was

                                              held inside the Soldier Field football stadium, approximately 11,000 new citizens were sworn in en masse...A former INS district director, William Carroll, stated that in March 1996 he and his colleagues had been given “marching orders” to naturalize as many new citizens as possible in advance of the November election, even in the absence of criminal and national security background checks of the applicants

                                              And every new adult citizen was registered to vote as a democrat, unless he refused the wishes of the president who gave him citizenship. The new citizen did not need to know how to read, nor how to write, nor even what an election was. The important thing was to get a new democrat - someone from the DNC could always show up later to 'help' them fill out an absentee ballot. There were a huge number of new ceremonies to grant citizenship, held

                                              at stadiums with DNC (Democratic National Committee) staff registering them as voters right there...goal of completing more than a million cases by the end of fiscal year 1996

                                              above quotes from http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/individualProfile.asp?indid=2355

                                              • 1 vote
                                              #18.5 - Wed Mar 4, 2009 4:17 AM EST
                                              Reply
                                              sncknbrgDeleted
                                              JennyW

                                              A one year old, Where oh Where is the sperm donor in all of this. Lets not feel pity until we know why she has got herself in the situation. How many children? Where oh where is the sperm donor or donors.

                                              • 8 votes
                                              Reply#20 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 8:54 AM EST
                                              Eric-289829

                                              Why? If you can't stop having sex at least stop having babies. Did you ever stop to think that there are TWO people responsible for babies not just a donor and paycheck?

                                              • 8 votes
                                              #20.1 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 9:19 AM EST
                                              Reply
                                              Gus-387868

                                              I think all those so-called bleeding hearts in Hollywood should get off their collective asses and start putting some of their hard earned money back into the community. I'm sure they could finance some low cost housing (that's a joke, there is no low cost housing in LA.) to help support these peopel.

                                              I'll bet though they just keep trying to talk the problem to death.

                                              • 9 votes
                                              Reply#21 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 8:55 AM EST
                                              crossfire55

                                              Gus

                                              Good point, but I'm thinking some of these CEOs who have been ripping off decent, hardworking Americans should also chip in. They can certainly well afford it.

                                              • 1 vote
                                              #21.1 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 4:58 PM EST
                                              IMMIGRATIONFORYOUDeleted
                                              Reply
                                              Besibug-561369

                                              Where are the TWO FATHERS of the garage kids? It is THEIR responsibility to see that their children are taken care of. Why doesn't the state use some of it's funds to track down these deadbeats and make them pay their share?

                                              • 7 votes
                                              Reply#22 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 8:59 AM EST
                                              xrayspex

                                              Probably because they have returned to Mexico and money runs in one direction there-in. They should make sure they aren't in another state making more "anchor babies".

                                              • 2 votes
                                              #22.1 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 12:17 PM EST
                                              Reply
                                              dangstraightupDeleted
                                              Abishag98Deleted
                                              ED STAN

                                              The problem is that the liberal based networks will not address the problem of the so called baby factories that come here illegally from Mexico.They are potrayed as just poor women with 6 kids.

                                              • 8 votes
                                              Reply#25 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 9:04 AM EST
                                              LPJ-887011

                                              The article is not about illegal immigrants!

                                              • 1 vote
                                              #25.1 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 9:48 AM EST
                                              Bronwen

                                              LPJ - will you stop that! Nowhere in the article does it address their legality, which is almost a dead giveaway that they ARE illegal.

                                              • 2 votes
                                              #25.2 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 10:28 AM EST
                                              LPJ-887011

                                              dammit! sidebar, page 3, titled "Immigration Impact"

                                              "While the subjects interviewed for this article on homelessness were legal residents or citizens of the United States, "

                                              • 1 vote
                                              #25.3 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 10:35 AM EST
                                              FROID

                                              Once again LPJ move them into your home. Set an example for the rest of us. If there's one thing I can't stand is someone like you that tries to make everyone feel bad because they are tired of their tax dollars supporting this type of crap. You are the type of person that shoots off their mouth about what everyone else should be doing but you yourself does nothing or very little.

                                              • 3 votes
                                              #25.4 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 10:43 AM EST
                                              DD50

                                              I would let them in, but my naturalized husband from an Asian country wouldn't hear of it. America gets all these immigrants, but first generation are as heartless as right wingers. Guess "they got theirs", and that's enough. (That and non-Christian countries are not very liberal toward the downtrodden AT ALL.) Well, despite the heartless on this blog, I would never live anywhere else but in America - and don't blame others for wanting to join up.

                                              All I can do is my job at an almost inner city school, and as is obvious here today, that's a thankless job indeed.

                                              • 1 vote
                                              #25.5 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 11:09 AM EST
                                              LPJ-887011

                                              FROID,

                                              I'm afraid I have no idea why I am the subject of your attack. You've never known any decent, hardworking people that fell on bad times? I lived in a tent while I paid my way through college, lucky for me I did have retired grandparents that could help me a little, but what if I had no one? My mother lived in a garage with her parents, 5 brothers and sisters, and 2 baby cousins when she was a teenager in the late 60's. Their house burned down, so they moved into the garage. My Grandfather had 2 jobs at the time. S@%T happens, even to American Citizens!

                                              • 1 vote
                                              #25.6 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 11:11 AM EST
                                              MrIndia

                                              Ed STAN -

                                              Why are you singling out just liberals ? This is the problem with all debates in America now a days. A never ending blame game between liberals and conservatives.

                                              Do you rememebr or not that it was the conservative leadership under Bush that first advocated the cause of extending amnesty to illegals and legitimize them ? All 11 million of them.

                                              • 1 vote
                                              #25.7 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 5:38 PM EST
                                              crossfire55

                                              Mrindia

                                              Conservatives are know for having very selective memory. Most of them don't seem to remember the past 8 years.

                                              • 1 vote
                                              #25.8 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 5:43 PM EST
                                              Reply
                                              Jeffh4006

                                              Not too much of a surprise here, the government doesn't need to do anything more to get us "out" of this recession. The people who are homeless and truly suffering at the ones who couldn't afford the stuff they had anyway. They were the people who weren't smart enough with their money to live within their means. Good riddence

                                                Reply#26 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 9:06 AM EST
                                                sbv-418808

                                                as a.s. said earlier and i concur, "this is heartbreaking." these are children, and as the article clearly states, these are american children, children who will continue to live here in our country as citizens of our country, the same as you or i. these are parents who love their children no less than you or i, who are willing to work hard - many times at jobs most americans no longer will do - and who pay taxes, spend their money and contribute to our economy.these children will one day be paying your social security, that's how the system works.

                                                as president obama has said, "if your house is burning, you don't ask the firemen if they are republican or democrat." if children are going homeless, tired, hungry, falling behind in school, doing without proper medical care; should we first be arguing about whether they are legal residents of this country or whether their parents are? where are our priorities?

                                                in some ways, it reminds me of the quote about the holocaust..first coming for the jews and saying nothing, then the catholics, intellectuals, the gays each time saying nothing until they came for me.

                                                • 4 votes
                                                Reply#27 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 9:11 AM EST
                                                Eric-289829

                                                The "system" only works when the laws are obeyed. The fallout from lack of enforcement is an overburdened government. You don't fix it by electing a president that sees an opportunity to take advantage of the illegals by making them voters either. You fix it by applying the laws. Anyone, including the president, who fails to enforce the laws is guilty of violating their oath of office and or aiding fugitives.

                                                • 8 votes
                                                #27.1 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 9:45 AM EST
                                                xrayspex

                                                sbv if the father(s) is (are) so loving, where is (are) he (they)?

                                                • 1 vote
                                                #27.2 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 12:56 PM EST
                                                rz-547309

                                                The family became homeless after Aguilar's boyfriend, father to the two youngest boys, left about a year and a half ago, I bet he doesn't pay child support.

                                                • 2 votes
                                                #27.3 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 2:51 PM EST
                                                tony-268769

                                                Sorry 'sbv'...but Ms. Aguilar is NOT "working hard"...NOT "paying taxes"...and NOT "contributing to our economy".....she is mass-producing human beings that she cannot afford. Never mind the $10,000 to $12,000 per child, PER YEAR that it will cost to put her kids through K-12 schooling...also add in the cost of all the services that exist and the costs those myriad services entail. You're into the millions here....6 kids times 13 years of K-12 schooling at what is presently $10-12 grand per child, per year. Goose those numbers up thru the next 17 years as her precious children ( & maybe more to come !!! ) age into the year 2025+.

                                                This is not " how the system works "...rather it is the way this " system " has been and continues to be destroyed.

                                                • 6 votes
                                                #27.4 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 3:28 PM EST
                                                GregL-671049Deleted
                                                Made their bed, Monterey Park, CA

                                                sbv,
                                                Good post. Though, many here, will not or chose not, to understand.

                                                  #27.6 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 3:58 PM EST
                                                  Made their bed, Monterey Park, CA

                                                  tony,
                                                  Sorry, but this IS how the system works. Be it far from perfect, it is what it is. While we all have some gripes about how much we pay for taxes and what those taxes are for. We can not pick and choose what taxes we are willing to pay for (or at least it seems this way). Regarding the cost per child for education, are you suggesting each family pay for their own child's education, K-12? That would be the absolute fairness. You see, I have no children, but some of the taxes that I pay for, willingly mind you, goes for schools and education. This subject/compassion is part of the thread that makes this country great. In this day and age, we have little more than that. And from reading most of these posts, it seems that our compassion is leaving too. However, when it comes to people's lives, especially when children are involved, everything is not as black and white as we'd like it be. Count yourself blessed if you live a more fortunate life.

                                                    #27.7 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 6:10 PM EST
                                                    tony-268769

                                                    madetheirbed....thre are what now....6 billion people on this overworked planet ??? Sorry, but it's tough to alaways feel one must feel 'compassionate' for numbers that have breeded beyond all reason.

                                                    And I am not saying that every parent should be forced to pay for their own children's education, I do say that it is patently unfair for people to breed numbers well past their ability to help pay their own way. How come folks like Ms. Aguilar are not supposed to have any 'compassion' for others who are forced to pay for her continuingly lousy reproductive choices ??? I guess that none is required...just hand off your own bills and expenses for others to pay. And those that pay are always the bad guys if they do not agree to simply nod their heads, grin painfully, and fork over their hard earned dollars to pay for the incredibly lousy decisions of others.

                                                    • 3 votes
                                                    #27.8 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 10:42 PM EST
                                                    Made their bed, Monterey Park, CA

                                                    tony,
                                                    I understand your point. Nor am I trying to force compassion on anyone. Nor can anyone force someone not to be compassionate. Either you are or you aren't. Either way, it doesn't make one, neccessarily, right or wrong.
                                                    Regarding schools and education. There are too many scenarios for it to be, as you might put it, "patently fair". Many hard working people, without any government assistance, have large families. Many, like myself, have no children. So, yes, I nod my head, grin painfully, and hand over my hard earned money. It's called paying taxes. Like it or not. Because like death, we can't escape it.

                                                      #27.9 - Tue Mar 3, 2009 1:01 PM EST
                                                      Reply
                                                      Rev G -812396

                                                      This is really hard to watch but i must ask. Are these people illegal? California got themselfs into this mess by NOT enforcing imigration laws.

                                                      Im sorry but the only people i feel for in this situation is the children.

                                                      • 5 votes
                                                      Reply#28 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 9:17 AM EST
                                                      LPJ-887011

                                                      All families in the article are legal citizens of the US

                                                        #28.1 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 9:53 AM EST
                                                        lulie -828371

                                                        I live in So. California. There are illegals running all over the place. There is not one city you can move to around here to get away from them. They are everywhere. You just get used to them I have lived here my whole life. And yes, California is in the mess that they are in because of the illegals. They get free everything. The state is going to be sending out iou's because its broke. I'd like to be able to send the state an iou when I have to pay my taxes.

                                                        • 9 votes
                                                        #28.2 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 11:07 AM EST
                                                        Cali-305006

                                                        I here you...............

                                                        Immigration impact

                                                        While the subjects interviewed for this article on homelessness were legal residents or citizens of the United States, discussion of public schools’ financial woes inevitably sparks a fierce debate about the extent to which illegal immigration is responsible, especially in states like California and Florida where the number of new arrivals — both legal and illegal — is high.

                                                        • 6 votes
                                                        #28.3 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 11:55 AM EST
                                                        Bridget MDeleted
                                                        Trav_nurse

                                                        Part of the problem could be with children whose parents are illegal immigrants. However, most of these children are born here in the US so therefore, they are legal. Why not build Dormitory style housing within so many miles of these schools, such as one would with private/boarding schools, and allow the children to live here during the week. We are spending money on transportation and resupplying what they lose over the weekend. They would each get a cafeteria style meal 3 times a day and would have help with school work. This would work. All we need is a Resident assistant for each floor to assist and college kids could be used to provide their time as part of college requirement. Schools would provide security. Think about it!

                                                        • 6 votes
                                                        #28.5 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 1:01 PM EST
                                                        onlybuyusa

                                                        why dont we build them a 9 bedroom house and purchase them a hummer and 5 gold toilets and give them airfare to fly around the world and learn about other nations and dig them a pool for those hot summer days and why not a second home in maine ???

                                                        • 7 votes
                                                        #28.6 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 1:10 PM EST
                                                        Rev G -812396

                                                        Its the same mentality as this friggin octomom. We are going to end up taking care of her and her children as well. I don't give California ANY sympathy. They are in this problem because of out of control immigration. I have lived there my entire life until recently. When we had "a day without a mexican" protest in the los angeles area, the freeways were clear and there was no traffic. It was a pretty good indicator as to how much immigration is an issue there.

                                                        I feel no pity for California.

                                                        • 3 votes
                                                        #28.7 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 2:07 PM EST
                                                        Vandmyshadow

                                                        Does Rev in RevG stand for reverend?

                                                          #28.8 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 4:19 PM EST
                                                          mike-568809

                                                          Its not the people's fault we can't get a wall built. The Democrats and Republicans are fighting tooth and nail for the Mexican Hispanic vote so they won't dare do anything to offend them. If it were up to me we'd build a wall and round up the ones who are already here. Not to mention if neither of your parents were born here you shouldn't get automatic citizenship.

                                                          Although, it should be noted that illegal immigrants, for the most part, are hard working individuals. Americans complain a lot about illegals stealing jobs but those are jobs no American would take.

                                                          • 2 votes
                                                          #28.9 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 4:25 PM EST
                                                          Reply
                                                          Gus-387868

                                                          Take the children away, for now send the mother to Berkley to get a good communist perspective and education then give her a high paying job in the BO government, maybe Minister of Welfare.

                                                          • 7 votes
                                                          Reply#29 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 9:22 AM EST
                                                          Calgal-931240

                                                          Berkeley, three "e"s not two, try learning how to spell it before you slam it, smarty pants.

                                                          • 2 votes
                                                          #29.1 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 10:46 AM EST
                                                          John Sawyer

                                                          Gus:

                                                          I lived in Berkeley for 28 years, until last year. I can see you've fallen for the pop media nonsense about Berkeley.

                                                          • 1 vote
                                                          #29.2 - Tue Mar 3, 2009 6:59 PM EST
                                                          Reply
                                                          Stevo-Deleted
                                                          eastern

                                                          eastern

                                                          You are the one who is sad and horrible! You are attributing thoughts to "happysocialist" that the poster never expressed. You have a great imagination.

                                                          As to "I don't think you can find a socialist country with happy people in it"..........that's just the problem; you can only "not think", because you obviously haven't travelled enough to know anything different. Travel and learn, and stop posting your ignorance!

                                                          baj,

                                                          I lived in socialist Europe for years, my taxes were high and my healthcare was crappy. My kids did not learn anything they could not have learned in the United States. So to me the school systems are equal. How long did you live Sweden?

                                                          Class warfare there is extreme. Case in point:

                                                          From 1934 to 1974, 62,000 Swedes were sterilized as part of a national program grounded in the science of racial biology and carried out by officials who believed they were helping to build a progressive, enlightened welfare state...In some cases, couples judged to be inferior parents were sterilized, as were their children when they became teenagers.

                                                          Is this what you want for our country? People who are found to be inferior, steralized? Wow. So your battle cry is lets steralize and abort poor peoples kids and those that are deemed by a "Social Program" to be racially inferior. You are sad and horrible.

                                                          baj why don't you travel a bit, looks like you need to. Also you need to read here is something for you.

                                                          The , meanwhile, reports that "90 per cent of [those sterilizied] were women," and that "the practice, which predated and outlived Nazi Germany, started as an attempt to weed out perceived genetic weaknesses, mental or physical defectsand ended as a method of social control." According to Professor Gunnar Broberg, "Young girls were told they would be set free from [mental] homes and prisons ‘if we are allowed to make you calmer.’"

                                                          • 4 votes
                                                          Reply#31 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 9:23 AM EST
                                                          Besibug-561369

                                                          sbv - Yes, I agree that these children should have food,shelter,etc, the basics - they didn't ask to be put in this situation. I do feel sorry for them. HOWEVER, I think some of the funds provided by the state should go into TRACKING DOWN the fathers of these children so that that THEY can be held accountable for the kids needs.

                                                          • 7 votes
                                                          Reply#32 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 9:23 AM EST
                                                          Eric-289829

                                                          While mom is free to pop out a few more kids to sate her motherly tastes. Get real. Man bashing is out, responsibility is in and that means for BOTH parents and government.

                                                          • 5 votes
                                                          #32.1 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 9:50 AM EST
                                                          Besibug-561369

                                                          Eric - I am not giving the mothers' a free pass on this subject - they are as responsible. I was just saying that the absent father's of these kids could be tracked down and made to finance their offspring.

                                                          • 5 votes
                                                          #32.2 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 10:09 AM EST
                                                          DD50

                                                          Man bashing? Bit extreme of a reply to a valid point. Absent fathers of ALL ethnic backgrounds are a problem - for ALL taxpayers. No bashing, just fact.

                                                          During the Depression this was also a problem.

                                                          • 1 vote
                                                          #32.3 - Mon Mar 2, 2009 10:40 AM EST
                                                          Karen in Los Angeles

                                                          Most states require the mothers to advise the state where the father is so that the father's wages can be garnished.

                                                          Nonetheless, I am a female and I blame the females - MOST OF THE TIME. So many of them try and trap men by getting pregnant.

                                                          It needs to stop. I have absolutely no sympathy anymore. I am tired of taking care of me and my own and now the entire country is demanding those with jobs (not the wealthy - those with jobs who are required to pay income taxes) pay their way.

                                                          It needs to stop and it starts with us - the people who have jobs.

                                                          I never voted for Obama and his trillion dollar budgets. Tell your legislators - HELL NO - WE WON'T GO TO THE POORHOUSE.

                                                          • 1 vote
                                                          #32.4 - Tue Mar 3, 2009 12:24 AM EST
                                                          Karen in Los Angeles

                                                          Kurt -

                                                          I work in the 90069 zipcode and my friend owns a condo in this zipcode. Her roomate is trying to buy in this zipcode and the LOWEST prices she is finding (and she's been looking for a year) is $440K.

                                                          I am not certain I would want to live in West Hollywood. I prefer Beverly Hills where I can possibly get a cement pond.

                                                            #32.5 - Tue Mar 3, 2009 4:31 PM EST
                                                            Kurt-449104

                                                            Yes, I can agree with you on the 90210, but I think buying now and within 5-7 years you'll have some equity which you wouldn't have as a renter. As well as a track record of paying a mortgage, not rent.

                                                            All of these things have particulars--- can you stomach a room-mate, are you already paying $2k a month by yourself, are you willing to drive a little for a few years to ensure you own you home free and clear by the time you retire???

                                                            Also, if you are very active as you describe, then if you're anything like me, I never went directly home after work, so traffic never really bothered me like most people. I'd make it from parties or the bar or gym from 8pm-2am and be home from LA to Saugus in 35-45 minutes and when I lived in Granada Hills and Sherman Oaks it was even quicker.

                                                            Stats show that retired women who own their homes free & clear are 50% less likely to fall within the poverty guidelines.

                                                            A friend of mine bought his properties with as little cash as possible, kept as much cash on hand (didn't blow it on jet skis & flashy cars)... bought a couple more properties in Arizona and Detroit, rented them out - built up his track record. Bought more and then after he had them about 5 years, he re/fi's them into 15year loans, so at the end of 20years they are his except for property taxes and repairs. I'm beginning to follow his lead. I think if nothing else most people should do this on their primary residence.

                                                            Idiots who say , keep your residence for tax benefits don't use calculators, you still need to spend $10k to get a $3k tax break, so its idiotic.

                                                            However if you'd rather keep $200k in a 5% Annuity , Emergency Funds, etc... then cash on hand is actually smarter then paying off your mortgage IMHO... you just can't spend it , you just have to let it compound, at even 5% it will double in 14-15years to $400k while your mortgage will be going down anyway. If a business has a $200k loan and $200k cash on hand they consider themselves to be debt free on their balance sheet, while individuals don't think that way, they want to hand over their cash, but cash is power and again IMHO cash should be kept on hand whenever and wherever possible.

                                                            I hope you get a home you are pleased with , as well as a great retirement.

                                                              #32.6 - Wed Mar 4, 2009 2:29 AM EST
                                                              Karen in Los Angeles

                                                              Thanks Kurt. You sound like my mother, sister and former boyfriend who is a realtor.

                                                              The other issue with owning property is taking care of it. Not certain I am ready for that.

                                                              Not to mention, I will inherit my mother's property.

                                                                #32.7 - Wed Mar 4, 2009 10:56 AM EST
                                                                Reply
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