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New jobless claims unexpectedly drop to 639K

Thu Mar 5, 2009 8:37 AM EST
business, politics, economy
Christopher S. Rugaber, AP Economics Writer
< PreviousNext >
showing 1 of 5 photos
<p>Job seekers listen to potential employer Pam Smith with Core-Mark during a job fair in the Egyptian Ballroom at the Fox Theater on Tuesday, March 3, 2009, in Atlanta. The event, sponsored by EmploymentGuide.com was a part of the "Putting Americans Back to Work" job fair series. The government says the number of new claims for jobless benefits and the total number of people receiving benefits dropped last week, though they remain at elevated levels. (AP Photo/Erik S. Lesser)</p>

Job seekers listen to potential employer Pam Smith with Core-Mark during a job fair in the Egyptian Ballroom at the Fox Theater on Tuesday, March 3, 2009, in Atlanta. The event, sponsored by EmploymentGuide.com was a part of the "Putting Americans Back to Work" job fair series. The government says the number of new claims for jobless benefits and the total number of people receiving benefits dropped last week, though they remain at elevated levels. (AP Photo/Erik S. Lesser)

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WASHINGTON — The number of new jobless claims and the total number of people receiving unemployment benefits both dropped more than expected last week, though they remain at elevated levels and are unlikely to fall substantially in the coming months.

Few economists expect a turnaround in the battered labor market anytime soon with companies laying off thousands of workers weekly.

Still, the tally of initial requests for unemployment benefits fell to 639,000 from the previous week's figure of 670,000, the Labor Department said Thursday. Analysts expected a smaller drop to 650,000.

In separate reports, factory orders fell for a record sixth consecutive month in January, the Commerce Department said, as demand fell across a wide cross-section of industries. And worker productivity fell more steeply than previously estimated in the fourth quarter, the Labor Department said.

Retailers, meanwhile, said sales dropped in February but at a slower pace than the previous month.

The stock markets, already trading lower, extended their decline after the factory orders report. The Dow Jones industrial average dropped about 260 points, or 3.8 percent, while broader indexes also fell in afternoon trading.

The 670,000 new job claims total reported a week ago was a new high for the current recession and the most since October 1982, when the economy was emerging from a severe downturn, though the labor force has grown by half since then.

The number of people claiming benefits for more than a week fell slightly to 5.1 million in the latest report from 5.12 million, after rising to record-highs for five straight weeks. Analysts expected 5.15 million continuing claims.

But an additional 1.4 million people were receiving benefits under an extended unemployment compensation program approved by Congress last year. That tally was as of Feb. 14, the latest data available, and brings the total jobless benefit rolls to about 6.5 million.

That's up sharply from a year ago, when 2.8 million people were receiving benefits.

The four-week average of new claims, which smooths out fluctuations, increased 2,000 to 641,750, the highest since October 1982.

More job losses were announced this week. General Dynamics Corp. said Thursday it will lay off 1,200 workers due partly to plummeting sales of business and personal jets that forced it to cut production and reduce its profit guidance for the year. Los Angeles-based defense contractor Northrop Grumman Corp. said Wednesday it will lay off 750 workers, mostly in southern California.

Elsewhere, Tyco Electronics Ltd., which makes electronic components, undersea telecommunications systems and wireless equipment, said it is laying off more employees, though it would not say how many.

London-based Diageo PLC, the world's largest producer of alcoholic drinks, said Wednesday it would eliminate 150 positions in North America next month. The company's brands include Ketel One vodka, Baileys and Captain Morgan. And Seagate Technology, meanwhile, said it is cutting 20 percent of its vice presidents and other top executives on top of previously announced layoffs.

"There can be no doubt that employers continue to shed labor at a frightening pace, with no end in sight," Ian Shepherdson, chief U.S. economist at High Frequency Economics, wrote in a client note Wednesday.

The nation's unemployment rate in January jumped to 7.6 percent, the highest in more than 16 years, while employers cut a net total of 598,000 jobs. The government will release February jobs data on Friday and many economists expect the unemployment rate rose to 7.9 percent while employers cut 648,000 jobs.

Among the states, Illinois reported the biggest increase in new jobless claims with a jump of 3,791 for the week ended Feb. 21, due mainly to layoffs in the construction, trade and manufacturing industries. The next largest increases were in Massachusetts, Missouri, Ohio and California.

Florida had the largest decrease, a drop of 3,586 claims, due to fewer layoffs in the construction, trade and service industries. The next largest drops were in Virginia, New York, Michigan and New Jersey.

In a separate report, the Labor Department said Thursday that worker productivity slid more than expected in the fourth quarter, while wage pressures shot up at the fastest clip in two years.

The department said productivity, the amount of output per hour of work, fell at an annual rate of 0.4 percent in the October-December period. At the same time, unit labor costs surged 5.7 percent.

While the combination of falling productivity and rising wage pressures would normally raise alarm bells about inflation, the threat of any resurgence of price pressures is seen as remote given the severity of the current recession.

The Commerce Department said demand for manufactured products dropped 1.9 percent in January. That was smaller than the 3.5 percent drop that economists had expected but it was still the sixth consecutive monthly fall, a record number of declines for a data series that goes back to 1992.

The weakness in January included a big plunge in orders for transportation equipment, reflecting the continued troubles facing automakers struggling with the weakest sales in decades.

___

AP Economics Writer Martin Crutsinger contributed to this report.

© 2009 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.
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  • Public Discussion (66)
raymond-392453

The Government is DESPERATE to DECIEVE-----Just another "Shell Game" with Statistics. The Unemployment numbers are FAR GREATER than you're led to believe.

  • 6 votes
Reply#1 - Thu Mar 5, 2009 8:56 AM EST
Lkessler

Raymond: I agree with your assessment that unemployment numbers are far higher than what's being reported. However, I do believe that there are less claims. The reason? People understand there is no money to pay out those benefits, so why bother? It's only going to make this catastrophe far worse.

  • 5 votes
#1.1 - Thu Mar 5, 2009 9:36 AM EST
Oh WellDeleted
Truth__mattersDeleted
Blizzy

However, I do believe that there are less claims. The reason? People understand there is no money to pay out those benefits, so why bother?

Sorry, but that's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. If someone is unemployed do you honestly think they won't file for benefits because they think there's no money? LMAO.

Every state reconciles unemployment numbers between claims and employer reporting. While the number may be slightly higher it's only because there's such a large number of people working illegally in this country, and they're joblessness is not counted for. But there's no conspiracy, so you can take off your foil hats...LoL

  • 5 votes
#1.4 - Thu Mar 5, 2009 11:54 AM EST
rickace

raymond-392453

The Government is DESPERATE to DECIEVE-----Just another "Shell Game" with Statistics. The Unemployment numbers are FAR GREATER than you're led to believe.

It wouldn't be the first time the feds slyly changed the metrics to advance their agendas.

  • 1 vote
#1.5 - Thu Mar 5, 2009 11:56 AM EST
rickace

Blizzy

If someone is unemployed do you honestly think they won't file for benefits because they think there's no money?

I'm unemployed and I'm not filing for benefits. But then I wasn't raised in a family of bottom feeders.

But there's no conspiracy, so you can take off your foil hats...LoL

Really now? President Obama and Congress are continuing the fiscal malfeasance begun under the Bush administration by conspiring to enrich their homies in the private sector by saddling the nation with debt that our children's children will be struggling to pay off. Perhaps it's you who should take off the tin foil hat?

  • 2 votes
#1.6 - Thu Mar 5, 2009 12:01 PM EST
Blizzy

Then you're either independently wealthy, or an idiot rick.

The bible refers to it as cutting off your nose to spite your face. Unemployment benefits are not "hand outs". They're benefits provided to you by your employer in exchange for your work there. A form of insurance. You only get what you put in.

President Obama and Congress are continuing the fiscal malfeasance begun under the Bush administration by conspiring to enrich their homies in the private sector by saddling the nation with debt that our children's children will be struggling to pay off. Perhaps it's you who should take off the tin foil hat?

All I can do is laugh.

  • 6 votes
#1.7 - Thu Mar 5, 2009 12:12 PM EST
pjwrites

Oh Well, I agree with everything you just said.

Here's the kicker: it's really up to individuals to determine their own worth. Personally, I wouldn't work a job that paid me so little, so I went out and started my own business in order to determine my own worth.

If people would quit taking @!$%# jobs for @!$%# pay, then businesses would be forced to pay better.

Oh . . . except our government allows them to take these jobs to other countries for cheaper wages.

Oh . . . except our government allows those same companies and individuals to hide their profits in Swiss banks so they can deny making enough money to support paying decent wages.

My bad.

  • 3 votes
#1.8 - Thu Mar 5, 2009 12:16 PM EST
Blizzy

Oh . . . except our government allows them to take these jobs to other countries for cheaper wages.

Oh . . . except our government allows those same companies and individuals to hide their profits in Swiss banks so they can deny making enough money to support paying decent wages.

But that's the free market economy the republicans think we should have. Regulation is bad, so let them keep up these practices. It's been good for the country and the shareholders right?

I'm convinced Pjwrites - that some people just don't understand the idea behind balance. A balanced economy needs regulation to keep things in check and...dare I say it...fair. OMG the republicans hate the F word, but I drop it reguarly. Fair figgity Fair Fair.

  • 3 votes
#1.9 - Thu Mar 5, 2009 12:31 PM EST
Florida_kes

Then you're either independently wealthy, or an idiot rick.

Or living with mommy and daddy.

  • 1 vote
#1.10 - Thu Mar 5, 2009 1:16 PM EST
pjwrites

LOL, seriously, Blizzy - that made me laugh.

I would have no problem with conservative ideals if our government worked more responsibly, but the truth is our government is comprised of people, and people will tend toward greed and self-service every time. It's the old survival instinct kicking in and the way our society worships the accumulation of money and power and fame - so you couldn't be more right about the checks and balances needed here.

The world and the humans in it need and will find balance - which is why I have always thought our Constitution and BoR were such awesome documents, in that they formed a nearly perfect balance between government powers and individual powers.

I am more convinced every day that it has been the gradual denigration of those documents that has led us to where we are today, with a chaotic and astoundingly unfair legal and criminal system that creates "criminals" out of thin air, the bold usurpation of individual rights and freedoms in the name of a "civilized" and "safe" society, and complacent, fear-filled, rule-following citizenry who no longer seem to understand the need for supporting and defending the ideals put forth in these documents - to the death, if necessary.

The situation we find ourselves in today is not the fault of Republicans or Democrats or government or big business - it is the fault of lazy, uncaring citizenry.

We should be ashamed of ourselves for allowing this to happen. Fairness is what it was supposed to be about.

  • 1 vote
#1.11 - Thu Mar 5, 2009 1:32 PM EST
jdl-28

The government has lie about this, but you must understand your government has done this to you. With them helping out all the other country trying to make sure their people has jobs, many American citizens lost their jobs do to off shoring, H1-B visa, allowing illegal in to take other jobs and also companies moving plants over sea.

They wanted to help the hold world and in return cost us and our children their futures, but we sure made China rich so I guess it was all worth it. Now they are still sending money to other countries plus are pushing for more H1-B visa people to come in and take more jobs, allowing Mexico to bring their truck into our country beside going to give amnesty to all the illegal and their children. Us American must be very forgiving people willing to allow our government to take our jobs away and still vote the same people back in office.

    #1.12 - Thu Mar 5, 2009 2:33 PM EST
    rickace

    Blizzy

    Then you're either independently wealthy, or an idiot rick.

    I am neither.

    Unemployment benefits are not "hand outs".

    Sure they are. You go to the office and without earning the benefits the government hands them out to you.

    They're benefits provided to you by your employer in exchange for your work there. A form of insurance.

    If you keep calling some by an inviting name long enough, sheeple will begin to believe that's what it is. Like the "stimulus package", which the thieving feds know won't make a difference in the economy. Insurance is a voluntary payment to lay off risk. There's nothing voluntary about payments to the government under the mantle of unemployment "insurance". That's just the name the socialists give it. It's actually legalized extortion, depriving companies and their shareholders of earned income and enriching those who take the money without earning it.

    See now, unlike you liberals, we true conservatives are not moral relativists.We have principles we and our families hold dear. We bind ourselves to them. If you understood that, it would be perfectly clear that what I am doing is not cutting off my nose. One principle of mine is that it is wrong to take money without earning it. If I went to the unemployment office I would be violating that. Adherence to principles protects me from descending into the path of greed, as our Washington politicians have done. It permits me to see with clear eyes the malfeasance our president and Congress are visiting upon the nation. That, sir is what gives me, a 54 year old unemployed software developer with few friends and a deepening case of depression, an edge over you in survival.

    Precious few Americans are aware of the economic danger that looms. Mark my words, there will be a price to be paid for those who "hope" that something won't happen instead of preparing for the possibility that it could. Many Americans will die as the economic noose tightens and riots and food shortages plague the cities and suburbs. The Washington pols haven't even considered the risks of elevating the national debt as the worst economic times since the 1930s descend upon the nation. In preparation I arrange my affairs accordingly to hunker down with relatives and help our families to ride out this horrible storm.

    • 3 votes
    #1.13 - Thu Mar 5, 2009 5:01 PM EST
    Blizzy

    Moral elitists more like it. But whatever, if you're dumb enough to believe that only conservatives hold principles and beliefs dear to their families, then you're dumb enough to believe the tooth fairy actually exists...

    And perhaps you should read about how unemployment benefits work. See first, you can only get a percentage of what you earned. If you didn't work, you can't get benefits. You additionally, can only receive what your employer put in on your behalf. Additionally you cannot get benefits if you voluntarily quit your job, or if you worked for less than 2 consecutive quarters.

    You literally work in order to receive future social security, medicare, and unemployment benefits should it come to that.

    When your beliefs willfully ignore the facts they become rhetoric. Plain and simple.

    • 1 vote
    #1.14 - Fri Mar 6, 2009 1:25 AM EST
    Reply
    AfricanMadman

    Maybe the reason for the decline as because people are getting their tax returns and "taking a break" from the Work One line for a couple of weeks....

    They'll come back when that money's gone.....

    • 2 votes
    Reply#2 - Thu Mar 5, 2009 9:04 AM EST
    Brian-497171

    Or, hope is dwindling.

    • 2 votes
    #2.1 - Thu Mar 5, 2009 10:03 AM EST
    Lintee

    African Madman

    The reason for the decline in unemployment compensation is because of a new quarter. That means people are running out of unemployment so consequently the number of people drawing unemployment is lower. Statistically the only way to count unemployment is by how many draw claims. When the claim runs out the person is no longer counted but chances are still unemployed.

    It makes me mad when articles try to make the employment picture brighter when in fact it's a shift of numbers and the same amount of people are unemployed only unaccounted.

    • 1 vote
    #2.2 - Thu Mar 5, 2009 11:04 AM EST
    miasma

    My wife has been out of work since July. She cannot even get a job in fast food. This thing is real. People by and large are not "taking a break" they are taking a beating.

    • 2 votes
    #2.3 - Thu Mar 5, 2009 11:27 AM EST
    AfricanMadman

    Didn't either of you 2 get the extension?

    I haven't even got the 22 extra weeks yet and I'm good til November of this year...

    • 2 votes
    #2.4 - Thu Mar 5, 2009 11:47 AM EST
    Blizzy

    The reason for the decline in unemployment compensation is because of a new quarter. That means people are running out of unemployment so consequently the number of people drawing unemployment is lower.

    This is untrue - the stimulus package recently extended benefits. I have a friend who's unemployment ends in a month and he received a letter that he would receive an additional 4 months of benefits because of the extension.

    • 1 vote
    #2.5 - Thu Mar 5, 2009 11:59 AM EST
    miasma

    1) Unemployment benefits are not enough to live on. That wouldn't even cover the cost increase to having her on my insurance policy.

    2) She's not getting unemployement benefits.

      #2.6 - Thu Mar 5, 2009 2:21 PM EST
      rickace

      They aren't "benefits".

      • 1 vote
      #2.7 - Thu Mar 5, 2009 5:02 PM EST
      Lkessler

      Blizzy wrote:

      (Previously quoted by Blizzy): The reason for the decline in unemployment compensation is because of a new quarter. That means people are running out of unemployment so consequently the number of people drawing unemployment is lower.

      Blizzy wrote: This is untrue - the stimulus package recently extended benefits. I have a friend who's unemployment ends in a month and he received a letter that he would receive an additional 4 months of benefits because of the extension.

      And after the four months are over, Blizzy, then what? More money magically appears? Give us all a break--money doesn't grow on trees, inasmuch as Mr. Obama may wish for it to. The fact is that Mr. Obama and his administration are effectively committing theft against those who still have a job--and if they should lose it, God help them, because Mr. Obama won't come with a cadre of cash to solve the problems that he and his administration will have created for them.

      • 2 votes
      #2.8 - Thu Mar 5, 2009 5:20 PM EST
      Blizzy

      It must suck being so negative all the time. If your glass is always half empty, you must be the most thirsty person on the planet I guess.

      Certain areas are picking up steam in terms of rehiring people. I'm seeing this firsthand in the IT industry, where more of my friends who are recruiters, are having to fill job orders. The nursing industry, construction, public service, are all seeing increases. Even walmart and target are busy hiring associates. If in 4 months, the unemployment rate is cut by 10% then a lot has been done.

      What would your solution be? Not extend benefits? Have more people going on welfare or worst? Inaction is what scared people do. At least Obama is trying to stand up to the crisis rather than sit back and watch it happen.

      BTW - people who are currently working will have their benefits available to them should they lose their job. That's the way the system works. I've been an employer before, so I know first hand what the purpose of unemployment is; and that program is one of the more important programs out there because it provides a way to prevent people from losing everything over losing a job.

      Oh and unemployment is backed by federal funds, but every state runs their system differently.

        #2.9 - Fri Mar 6, 2009 1:33 AM EST
        Lkessler

        Oh yeah, because the government stealing from those who aren't unemployed to give to those who are isn't still theft...

        You like to keep your glass half full--and that's ok if that what makes theft ok in your book. I choose to be realistic and call what I see happening by its only name--theft.

        • 1 vote
        #2.10 - Fri Mar 6, 2009 7:40 AM EST
        Blizzy

        LMAO theft how? You, as an individual don't pay unemployment contributions; and your taxes haven't increased, so instead of the tax money you already paid going to Iraq, it's going to help states prevent more people from having to file bankruptcy.

        What I find funny is how little people understand about the government's finances.

        If you give $1.00 in taxes, .60 goes to our nation's defense (because don't forget, they are employees of the country - so that's healthcare, education, living expenses, AND salaries). .25 goes to administrative costs (salaries, buildings, etc.), .05 goes to education (so disproportionate), .05 goes to infrastructure and special projects, and another .05 goes to earmarks which are spent pretty much everywhere. That doesn't include amounts given to other countries in the form or aid or bond payments. Of course the figures aren't exact, but the general idea shows where money is spent.

          #2.11 - Fri Mar 6, 2009 10:41 AM EST
          Reply
          Wizeguy

          Analysts expected a smaller drop to 650,000

          WHAT? It must be all the programs the Republicans put into action. It can't be that the stimulus money that is already got workers being called back to work in any way could be working.

          http://abcnews.go.com/WN/story?id=7009732&page=1

          Just watch this snowball. I watched this story on ABC News last night. This is just the tip of the iceberg.

          raymond-392453said "The Government is DESPERATE to DECEIVE"

          Methinks you are desperate to see it fail!

          • 4 votes
          Reply#3 - Thu Mar 5, 2009 9:09 AM EST
          DonkeyRidder

          Hey, Wizeguy, employment always tends to rise in the spring, when construction and agriculture picks back up from the winter lull. "Analysts" are Obama operatives working to deceive the public with statistics manipulations and outright lies, part of the government-media complex, and members of the Obama Department of Disinformation.

          The small deviation from the "analysts" projections doesn't men squat. Nice try at putting a good spin on a hideous employment scenario.

            #3.1 - Thu Mar 5, 2009 10:11 AM EST
            Wizeguy

            So I guess what I saw on the news last night was propaganda initiated by a left wing conspiracy to deceive us.

            Shucks here I go being the optimsit again......

            • 3 votes
            #3.2 - Thu Mar 5, 2009 10:20 AM EST
            DonkeyRidder

            If you didn't see it on FoxNews, it wasn't real.

              #3.3 - Thu Mar 5, 2009 10:26 AM EST
              Chuck1968

              Well, at least we understand why DonkeyRidder stays ignorant.

              • 2 votes
              #3.4 - Thu Mar 5, 2009 10:41 AM EST
              DonkeyRidder

              And why Chuckie stays so misinformed.

                #3.5 - Thu Mar 5, 2009 10:51 AM EST
                Chuck1968

                what the hell is a ridder anyway?

                • 1 vote
                #3.6 - Thu Mar 5, 2009 5:30 PM EST
                DonkeyRidder

                One who rids. A nicer word for eradicator. Donkey is the Democrat party symbol.

                  #3.7 - Thu Mar 5, 2009 6:04 PM EST
                  Reply
                  George From Illinois

                  This is a load of garbage, the true numbers will not be officially released until tomorrow. The true number will be 697,000 give or take. This looks like an increase to me not a decrease.

                  • 1 vote
                  Reply#4 - Thu Mar 5, 2009 9:21 AM EST
                  Aalaf Alot

                  Get ready from both sides of the political spectrum start claiming credit especially the RepubliCONS. They will say block Obama policy is having affect.

                  • 4 votes
                  Reply#5 - Thu Mar 5, 2009 9:28 AM EST
                  Hider5000

                  How come all the people in that picture are black?

                  • 2 votes
                  Reply#6 - Thu Mar 5, 2009 9:41 AM EST
                  Damon1

                  Your racism is showing,Stash.

                  Better cover it back up before someone calls you out on it....oh wait, I just did.

                  • 1 vote
                  #6.1 - Thu Mar 5, 2009 9:49 AM EST
                  Hider5000

                  I didn't say anything racist. I made an observation. Just because you want to ignore the big white elephant in the living room (or the black one for that matter) doesn't mean I'm going to play stupid to be nice.

                  • 2 votes
                  #6.2 - Thu Mar 5, 2009 9:57 AM EST
                  DonkeyRidder

                  StashHider, get the heck out of here if you want to discuss the real issues. And turn off your powers of observation. They are obviously not welcome here.

                  • 1 vote
                  #6.3 - Thu Mar 5, 2009 10:00 AM EST
                  Hider5000

                  Is that right? Maybe I'm just wondering if the media isn't being racist for publishing such a non-diversified portrayal. Maybe I'm the one championing for the fair treatment of the black man. Did you think of that smart guy?

                  Tells me a lot about the way you percieve things doesn't it--you automatically assume racism where there is none--someone that atuned to racism cleary must spend a considerable time thinking about it, perhaps a racist themself, perhaps trying to covertly flame the fires of racist sentiment by playing the devil's advocate in the matter. You know, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to find out you had a few white sheets with eye holes cut in them hidden in the back of your closet.

                  • 1 vote
                  #6.4 - Thu Mar 5, 2009 10:28 AM EST
                  biggerthebetter-620467

                  Maybe white people aren't looking for work, but have their hands out at the welfare office instead?

                    #6.5 - Thu Mar 5, 2009 10:33 AM EST
                    Hider5000

                    Maybe white people are just too busy accusing other white people of being racist, and playing the "I'm more PC than you are" game.

                    • 3 votes
                    #6.6 - Thu Mar 5, 2009 10:52 AM EST
                    ComSen

                    It looks like there may be at least one or two European-Americans in the back.

                    • 1 vote
                    #6.7 - Thu Mar 5, 2009 11:03 AM EST
                    Julian in Dallas

                    StashHider5000,

                    I'm Black, and I didn't think your observation was racist. In fact that was my first thought when I looked at the photo too.

                      #6.8 - Thu Mar 5, 2009 11:29 AM EST
                      Anibunny

                      Maybe I'm just wondering if the media isn't being racist for publishing such a non-diversified portrayal.

                      It depends on where the photo was taken. If it is in a city where the population is predominantly black, then of course we are going to see more blacks than whites. Or hispanics. Or asians for that matter.

                      Even though the story reflects the nation as a whole, the reporter and photographer are in one city. Photographs are going to better reflect their location.

                      If it had been done where I am, you would probably only see whites. If it was done in my hometown, you would probably see mostly hispanics. That's all.

                        #6.9 - Thu Mar 5, 2009 11:58 AM EST
                        Blizzy

                        LoL wtf are any of you even talking about?

                        • 1 vote
                        #6.10 - Thu Mar 5, 2009 12:01 PM EST
                        Hider5000

                        We're talking about how I want so bad to be more PC than all the other white people. When little black babies are born, I wait outside the hospital and ask the mothers if I can be the first one to apologize to their newborns about slavery. I also put black pepper on popcorn, french fries, margarita glasses, icy walkways, etc. I don't think just because salt is white people should think it's better.

                        • 2 votes
                        #6.11 - Thu Mar 5, 2009 12:53 PM EST
                        biggerthebetter-620467

                        You should try that lace in the photo above, Stash. It's an employment office. It sounds like you have too much free time.

                        :)

                          #6.12 - Thu Mar 5, 2009 2:48 PM EST
                          Reply
                          DonkeyRidder

                          Wow, that's a relief. It's now less than a million a week. Obama has saved us! Yaaay!

                          I agree with Obama. I think we should all lose our jobs. Like Obama said, we all need to put a little skin in the game. What better way to share the Obama misery than to lose your job with the rest of America, heck, the real Obama domain, the rest of the world.

                            Reply#7 - Thu Mar 5, 2009 9:59 AM EST
                            Shawn [a.k.a. "Shadow"]

                            Here's a couple points to gnash on:

                            1.) The unemployment figure is really quite useless other than a relative "guide". Why you may ask? Because...if you were making 100k as a senior IT manager somewhere and were laid off, the unemployment rate just added 1...so now you're looking and looking...can't find another salary for 100k...90k...80k...mortgages are due, bank accounts dropping, etc. so you settle for a job as a checkout person at a conv. store for 10/hour to assist in paying the bills. Guess what...the unemployment figure just subtracted 1. SO, you are no longer unemployed, just making 90% less than you were before.

                            2.) Companies, save mall sales staff for holiday ramp up (usually) don't hire at years end. They close out their books for the year...it's coming up on the end of Q1 of the new year and as budgets are set for the upcoming year, companies are hiring again (as they normally do) - again, may not be for what they were the year before (tighting their belts and what not), but that is traditionally when new hires take place.

                            3.) "The Obama administration has said that theeconomic stimulus plan will immediately target construction and repair projects that are "shovel ready," investing directly in the nation's roads, bridges, schools and hospitals." So...how many out of work white collar business folks are ready (or able) to pick up shovel and start digging a ditch in your new career path?

                              Reply#8 - Thu Mar 5, 2009 10:21 AM EST
                              Wizeguy

                              So...how many out of work white collar business folks are ready (or able) to pick up shovel and start digging a ditch in your new career path?

                              Saw a guy on the news last night sitting down to dinner at what looked like a homeless shelter or church dinner. Looked like he was well groomed and seemed intelligent. He said "I can and will do anything" to get back to work. Large construction firms don't only need laborers they need office workers and engineers also. These people will get paid spend the money at the grocery and department stores who will need to hire more people to serve the customers. It goes up from there. I call it "trickle up" from shovel ready to planning for the future we need to get the Country moving again.

                                #8.1 - Thu Mar 5, 2009 10:38 AM EST
                                Chuck1968

                                So...how many out of work white collar business folks are ready (or able) to pick up shovel and start digging a ditch in your new career path?

                                What is Shawn too great for that kind of work?

                                • 2 votes
                                #8.2 - Thu Mar 5, 2009 10:46 AM EST
                                Blizzy

                                Shawn, I agree with your first point - and it's a very valid one. I don't think there's a good way to measure that in the short term, but in the long term we'll see that in the productivity index state by state (annual number though).

                                On your 3rd point, I agree it's relative. However, even shovel ready projects require white collar workers with "special skills". For example, a state gets money to repair a bridge, so they contract an architecture firm to check out the bridge's structural capacity, so that firm hires a project manager (who may've come from IT or elsewhere) to manage that project, and the construction companies contracted to do the repair work also need support for their technologies, etc. etc.

                                These days, all jobs are interrelated, so adding any job has a deeper effect elsewhere in the industry.

                                • 1 vote
                                #8.3 - Thu Mar 5, 2009 12:08 PM EST
                                Shawn [a.k.a. "Shadow"]

                                What is Shawn too great for that kind of work?

                                Chuck1968,

                                Accusations like that are really uncalled for, considering you know nothing about me - read other posts of mine and maybe you'll start to see that I can guarantee that I do and sacrifice more to get dinner on the table than most.

                                I'm referring more to say...someone in their 50's/60's that has been used to a business office environment. Do you REALLY see them suddenly, without the conditioned body, lungs, and heart for the type of requirement that manual labor demands out there suddenly swinging sledgehammers around in the freezing cold and smashing things up.

                                I guess that would be a way to cull the older sect of the herd before retirement and social security, but it doesn't make sense to throw a wearier older horse into the races, and it doesn't make much sense to take an unconditioned and unhardened body and put them in the streets...but hey, whatever it takes.

                                I'm not saying many won't do whatever it takes - I just see the next issue down the line, people suddenly dropping dead because they've gone from a completely sedentary lifestyle to one that requires you to be muscle strong and body conditioned.

                                Again, know your target before you start trying to make accusations...it'll serve you well.

                                  #8.4 - Thu Mar 5, 2009 12:18 PM EST
                                  Chuck1968

                                  Accusations like that are really uncalled for, considering you know nothing about me - that I can guarantee that I do and sacrifice more to get dinner on the table than most.

                                  This is precisely the attitude I'm talking about. Right here you suggest you're better than most.

                                  You actually have the audacity to believe YOU work harder than most. I seriously doubt that you do. But keep strokin' your ego if it makes you feel better.

                                  So...how many out of work white collar business folks are ready (or able) to pick up shovel and start digging a ditch in your new career path?

                                  These comments alone let me know plenty about you. Your assumptions are elementary. Starting with the premise that all the jobs associated with infrastructure are purely physical.

                                  Not to mention the only reason you mentioned it was NOT becasue of your concern for the older folks but so you can criticize Obama's stimulus package by falsly pointing out it won't help anyone because not everyone can pick up shovels.

                                    #8.5 - Thu Mar 5, 2009 5:27 PM EST
                                    Shawn [a.k.a. "Shadow"]

                                    oh Chuck...

                                    Ever have a grand mal seizure, pop your own shoulder back in socket, pull pieces of ceramic out of your chin with a pair of tweezers (because your fall smashed the back of the toilet in half) and then head to work because you are trying to resolve a supposed Y2K issue? (1999)

                                    Ever cough up blood while you're at your desk but because there are bills to pay, you just deal with it until you get a chance to drive yourself to the hospital when your shift was over? (2001)

                                    Ever come home from AM surgery because of a Dural-AVM (that would be surgery to the lining of the brain) and that night put together a vender integration strategy so that the client is able to stay in business? (2002)

                                    Ever (most recent issue) find out that you have a DVT from a martial arts accident which has caused a blood clot in your leg, which has broken off into both off and is now stuck in your lungs and you ask your spouse to pick up a wireless card so you can make sure the software that is being used to keep people in their homes doesn't miss the deadline while you're stuck in bed in the hospital for four days, doctors running tests to see if you're going to make it through the week, looking at you like you're a fool for caring about anyone but yourself? (this past December)

                                    Like I said...you don't know anything about me - it's not about being "better" as you put it - it's about understanding what needs to be done...and doing it - period!

                                    {Oh, and you're wrong on the last part as well - It was a point brought up to me by my father (in the automotive industry) who's been industrialized for 35 years as a manager/director, the notion of him doing heavy hardcore labor for 8 solid hours without his heart failing - not happening. Again, nice try though.}

                                      #8.6 - Thu Mar 5, 2009 8:29 PM EST
                                      Blizzy

                                      Shawn - you might be a candidate for the world's most dangerous jobs.

                                      But you'd be the first computer tech...

                                        #8.7 - Fri Mar 6, 2009 1:37 AM EST
                                        Shawn [a.k.a. "Shadow"]

                                        No doubt Blizzy...

                                        All I can say is thank heaven's I'm in the computer industry as it affords me the ability to be productive even WITH the issues that seem to come my way from time to time.

                                        • 2 votes
                                        #8.8 - Fri Mar 6, 2009 9:59 AM EST
                                        Reply
                                        MHammer

                                        But isn't the whole deception of the article the point? It is not the figures, they can be manipulated to fit anyones purpose, what we have here is deception and fraud. Then you tack on the fact that BHO released the 9 Billion in mortgage funds today, you know the funds for those who can not, will not or shold never have had a home mortgage to begin with, and what happens, the Stock Market immediately foes down 200 points. Does anyone else see the correlation to the massive amounts of money being thrown at problems and the marked decline in the Stock Market? There will be no turn around while BHO keeps throwing money at problems and continues his push for the Socialization of this nation. The Market will continue to tank as long as BHO and Geithner keep getting it wrong. Now where are the stories from the Liberal Media talking about that connection?

                                        • 2 votes
                                        Reply#9 - Thu Mar 5, 2009 11:49 AM EST
                                        AfricanMadman

                                        Then you should know, there's no money to be made doing the right thing Hammer....

                                        When you muck up something, it leaves you another work day to "try" to fix it.... You see?

                                        • 1 vote
                                        #9.1 - Thu Mar 5, 2009 11:57 AM EST
                                        Reply
                                        Mike All Night

                                        Chris did your article or research consider that you need to measure the new claims filed for welfare assistance as well in that unemployment benefits do not inur for eternity and once benefits are exhausted the only other resort is to file for welfare assistance?

                                        In taking stats from both you will get a better measure of true unemployment. Of course within the welfare ranks you will also find that percentage of Americans who never worked long enough to collect unemployment and are therefore off the stats charts. Maybe ACORN can help find them since they registered them to vote 2 and 3 times.

                                        • 2 votes
                                        Reply#10 - Thu Mar 5, 2009 12:12 PM EST
                                        Mike All Night

                                        Just a thought: Back before election day when Obama told the nation to take the day out of work for that historical day, maybe alot of people did and had to file for unemployment because they were fired for not showing up but were encouraged to appeal the unemployment decision (to deny benefits) by the President and won their appeals--hence obtaining unemployment benefits for good cause. Maybe that accounted for the high 4th quarter filings.

                                        It was a home run for Obama since the unemployment numbers went up before Georgy left the whitehouse he could blame that one on him too!

                                          Reply#11 - Thu Mar 5, 2009 12:22 PM EST
                                          TitaniumSpork

                                          the number of new claims for jobless benefits and the total number of people receiving benefits dropped last week

                                          That's due to their UI running out. Everyone filed for UI and they only get so much (usually 26 weeks). Some people who lost their jobs can't file for it due to the fact that they were not at the job long enough or they were paid under the table. Once again the Govt. thinks that we are blind to the actual stats.

                                          • 1 vote
                                          Reply#12 - Thu Mar 5, 2009 12:59 PM EST
                                          Blizzy

                                          The government actually didn't publish the report...the individual states did, and their reports were combined.

                                          The evil government, on the other hand, admitted in a recent report than unemployment continued to increase in the last quarter.

                                          • 1 vote
                                          #12.1 - Fri Mar 6, 2009 1:39 AM EST
                                          Reply
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