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3 slain Pittsburgh officers remembered as heroes

Sun Apr 5, 2009 7:53 AM EDT
us-news, shooting, pittsburgh, pittsburgh-police, pittsburgh-shooting, pittsburgh-mayor-luke-ravenstahl, allegheny-county-police, paul-sciullo-ii, stephen-mayhle
Dan Nephin, Associated Press Writer
Pittsburgh police chief Nate Harper says negotiators were able to coax a gunman out of his home.
< PreviousNext >
showing 1 of 35 photos
<p>Police escort a female relative of one of the policemen shot on Fairfield Street in the Stanton Heights section of Pittsburgh where a gunman shot police officers early Saturday morning, April 4, 2009. The man opened fire on officers during a domestic disturbance call Saturday morning, killing three of them, a police official said. Police spokeswoman Diane Richard would only say that at least five officers were wounded, but wouldn't give any other details. (AP Photo/John Heller)</p>

Police escort a female relative of one of the policemen shot on Fairfield Street in the Stanton Heights section of Pittsburgh where a gunman shot police officers early Saturday morning, April 4, 2009. The man opened fire on officers during a domestic disturbance call Saturday morning, killing three of them, a police official said. Police spokeswoman Diane Richard would only say that at least five officers were wounded, but wouldn't give any other details. (AP Photo/John Heller)

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PITTSBURGH — Two served on the Pittsburgh police force less than two years. The third was a veteran of 14 years.

At a memorial service attended by 10,000 people Thursday, each was remembered as a hero, someone who found his calling in uniform and carrying out the motto: To protect and serve.

Stephen Mayhle, Paul Sciullo II and Eric Kelly, who were killed while responding to a domestic call Saturday morning, should be honored by people living out that motto, Mayor Luke Ravenstahl said.

Deputy Chief Paul Donaldson said he felt his "badge shone brighter, I walked taller and I felt a little prouder," because of his fallen colleagues' actions.

Sciullo left a comfortable career in the private sector to become a policeman, Ravenstahl said. Mayhle shared his birthday dinner with his family the night before he died. Kelly went to back up his fellow officers, the mayor said, even though his shift had just ended. Fatally wounded, he was able to call in details, likely saving the lives of other officers.

As law enforcement officers, dignitaries and family gathered to mourn the slain officers at the University of Pittsburgh's basketball arena, experts said their surviving colleagues will face many challenges in returning to the job. Officers left behind may be reluctant to answer similar calls and may even be more likely to divorce or retire, experts say.

"It's life-altering for these people. They will never be the same," said Suzie Sawyer, executive director of Concerns of Police Survivors Inc. "You don't experience grief like this and be the same person."

The Camdenton, Mo.-based nonprofit provides resources to surviving families and affected co-workers of law enforcement officers killed in the line of duty.

Colleagues of slain officers are more likely to retire early, resign or get divorced, she said. Officers will also be extra alert for months, if not years.

Michael Lyman, a professor of criminology at Columbia College in Columbia, Mo., and a former state trooper in Kansas and Oklahoma, agreed officers may be hesitant about responding.

"That's normal, and it's very proper to kind of question the nature of calls in the future," Lyman said.

Counseling can help, Lyman and Sawyer said.

The Pittsburgh Police Department will offer counseling for as long as it's needed, said Diane Richard, a department spokeswoman.

Jeff Thomason, spokesman for the Oakland, Calif., police department, which had four officers killed last month, said the department has a counselor on retainer and about 20 department staff who offer peer counseling.

Those immediately involved in the Oakland shootings were required to get counseling and other officers took advantage it, he said.

"In law enforcement, you don't want people to see your feelings, but since this affected our whole department, everyone understands you need to talk about the grieving process," he said. "You're never going to get over it, but you have to talk about it."

Lyman expects Pittsburgh police will also dissect the shootings: "What could we do better?" he said. "How could we — if we could do it all over again — approach this situation in a way that would prevent our officers from being killed?"

One aspect of Saturday's shooting that's already being examined is the performance of a 911 operator. The operator learned there were weapons in the house where the shooting took place but didn't press for more details and didn't ensure officers knew about the weapons.

Saturday's call showed no outward signs of danger. Margaret Poplawski simply told police she wanted their help in getting her son out of the house.

When she opened the door for the officers, son Richard Poplawski was standing behind her and opened fire, police said. Sciullo, 37, was shot in the home and Mayhle, 29, on the front stoop. Both men were dead within seconds. Kelly, 41, was shot as he arrived to provide backup, prompting a four-hour siege and gun battle with police.

Richard Poplawski is being held in the Allegheny County Jail on homicide and related charges.

© 2009 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.
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  • Dan Nephin's Column, All of Newsvine
  • Groups: Crime and Punishment
  • Regions: United States , Pittsburgh
  • Public Discussion (92)
Ralph-482541

How come all these loosers are frustrated about loosing their jobs but always seem to have enough money to buy guns and bulletproof vests. It's just an excuse, like thinking that Obama was going to ban guns so "use it or lose it" I guess. This dope could have heard that the moon was going to crash into the earth and used that as an excuse. He should be executed.

  • 4 votes
Reply#1 - Sun Apr 5, 2009 8:26 AM EDT
Sherry working hard

Its people like this that will be the cause of the ban. I hope they hang him.

  • 5 votes
#1.1 - Sun Apr 5, 2009 8:51 AM EDT
Oh WellDeleted
Writing Athena

Its people like this that will be the cause of the ban.

You are exactly right: the self-fulfilling prophecy of the paranoid right-wing nutjobs.

  • 3 votes
#1.3 - Sun Apr 5, 2009 3:12 PM EDT
Sherry working hard

I do not know right wing, left wing no wing. Its nuts plain and simple that are going to cause this. This guy was no more afraid of gun control than I am young and friskey. This friend is probably full of crap. This cop killer was waiting for the cops because momma had called them to get him out.

  • 1 vote
#1.4 - Sun Apr 5, 2009 3:31 PM EDT
John Franklin Mason

How come all these loosers are frustrated about loosing their jobs but always seem to have enough money to buy guns and bulletproof vests.

Ralph-482541

They are hearing the call to; "Join us Today and See You Are Not Alone," from the Fox Nation. That's how gangs do it too.

  • 2 votes
#1.5 - Sun Apr 5, 2009 5:41 PM EDT
Reply
Sherry working hard

I was worried there may be an open field day on the cops since Cali. God bless the families.

  • 1 vote
Reply#2 - Sun Apr 5, 2009 8:50 AM EDT
JCK-424672

This displays a worriesome discontent with what citizens perceive as a growing inequality in our society. People are properly concerned of losses of freedom. Freedom is ingrained in us from childhood and where it is felt freedom is threatened the first to react are those who, for whatever reason, feel it more acutely that the general population. This should be taken as a warning sign for everyone that something is going very wrong.

The current financial meltdown is a strong driver of a pervasive and growing fear. Where the general populace has lost untold amounts our government has seen fit to take care of banks and large investors but hasn't done a whole lot for the losses suffered by people who have worked their entire lives and played by the rules only to have their life savings diminish by half. The working middle class really can't afford such a loss and the perception this is an intentional product of government action or inaction is very real.

  • 4 votes
Reply#3 - Sun Apr 5, 2009 9:04 AM EDT
abolish taxes

What's going wrong is people like this have no perspective on life. You can blame economics or the perception of fascism, but in the end what it comes down to is these types of people that do these sort of things are arrogant and ignorant. Their narcissism allows them to negate the plight of others and reinforces their diseased deduction that they are suffering some kind of pain that no one else could possibly understand. These people are a product of a society that promotes this idea that money and power are not only how you achieve success in life, but are actually themselves the only goal. Lack of compassion and empathy are the byproducts of such a purposeless existence. Love might not be all you need, but if you don't have love for life itself, regardless of the struggle it may be at any particular point in your human existence, then you will never be capable of any semblence of happiness. Aristotle made the point beautifully in Nicomachean Ethics, in which he stated that the happy individual is happy regardless of whether or not fortune is on his or her side. The happy individual is impervious to fortune because their happiness is not based in material gains or social status. Rather, it is based in the profound understanding that it is your personal moral response to situations which defines your character, and your character is the only true thing which you possess in this brief, yet ever-changing world.

  • 1 vote
#3.1 - Sun Apr 5, 2009 2:54 PM EDT
landspirit

abolish taxes

These people are a product of a society that promotes this idea that money and power are not only how you achieve success in life, but are actually themselves the only goal. Lack of compassion and empathy are the byproducts of such a purposeless existence

I could not agree more. Not only is "your character the only true thing which you possess" it is also the character of others that should hold our value. Our success=money and money=power social systems have created the desire to get what is not important at all while sacrificing your own character and ignoring the beauty in others. I truly doubt things will change unless we shift from a materialistic world to an individualistic world. The true value is the talent of each. And I agree, there is one thing each of us has the ability always to control in a world out of control: our own character.

My heart goes out to the families who lost their loved ones in such a senseless, meaningless battle. They died selflessly in the protection and public service of us all.

    #3.2 - Sun Apr 5, 2009 4:24 PM EDT
    A Human-989802

    I totally agree. It's a "all for yourself and your wallet" mindset and looks what it's doing. We value the dollar above human life. It's disgusting.

      #3.3 - Mon Apr 6, 2009 8:40 AM EDT
      Reply
      JCK-424672

      This displays a worriesome discontent with what citizens perceive as a growing inequality in our society. People are properly concerned of losses of freedom. Freedom is ingrained in us from childhood and where it is felt freedom is threatened the first to react are those who, for whatever reason, feel it more acutely that the general population. This should be taken as a warning sign for everyone that something is going very wrong.

      The current financial meltdown is a strong driver of a pervasive and growing fear. Where the general populace has lost untold amounts our government has seen fit to take care of banks and large investors but hasn't done a whole lot for the losses suffered by people who have worked their entire lives and played by the rules only to have their life savings diminish by half. The working middle class really can't afford such a loss and the perception this is an intentional product of government action or inaction is very real.

      • 2 votes
      Reply#4 - Sun Apr 5, 2009 9:04 AM EDT
      Ralph-482541

      JCK:

      BULLS**T,

      There have been entire populations that have had it hard and worked their way though it. Loosing your job or some phoney stock value is no reason to go off the deep end. We enable these folks by saying we "understand" their pain. Folks need to toughen up and work harder, adjust their priorities and believe in a better future days. Shooting up the neighborhood does none of that, all though I guess it resolves any homelessness issues as you wind up with "three hots and a cot" from the government for life.

      • 10 votes
      #4.1 - Sun Apr 5, 2009 9:23 AM EDT
      melb

      Killing innocent people who have done nothing to you does not justify anything... By teling them we understand, we are some what allowing the next idiot to shoot some very innocent people. Freedome yes is a big thing but then we have to think freedome from what and freedom to do what.. If this is what freedome means then I think freedom should be reigned in because obviously it is not a good thing.......

      • 7 votes
      #4.2 - Sun Apr 5, 2009 9:44 AM EDT
      govcontrol

      There are a lot of people who have lost jobs and IRA's. This is not an excuse to shoot police or innocent bystanders. I don't buy your argument JCK. The question is where did he get the bullet proof vest and weapon? Does this change the way people feel about the freedom of anyone to have any type of weapon they would like? Obviously the screening process did not work for this guy and several like him in the news lately.

      • 8 votes
      #4.3 - Sun Apr 5, 2009 10:22 AM EDT
      Sherry working hard

      Where are they all getting them, the day before or it may have been on the same day the NY. shooter at the citizenship place had on a vest. see criminals will always find a way.

      • 1 vote
      #4.4 - Sun Apr 5, 2009 2:47 PM EDT
      A Human-989802

      First of all, totally agree with govcontrol and melb. Secondly, ALL Americans need to get a grip on reality. Our "recession" is nothing compared to how others in the world truly have it. If you have a house, food, clothes on your back - you have a lot more than others do. These whiny, self absorbed gunmen are just ridiculous already. Hate Life? Want to die? Fine - kill yourself. Don't take innocent people down with you.

        #4.5 - Sun Apr 5, 2009 3:01 PM EDT
        Reply
        bondibox

        Poplawski had feared "the Obama gun ban that's on the way" and "didn't like our rights being infringed upon," said Edward Perkovic, his best friend.

        It's time we called out the rightwing leaders like Rush & Sean for propagating this utter bull@!$%# about Obama coming to get your guns. It's just invented propaganda to keep their followers on a leash. They need to take responsibility for being a part of this slaying.

        You know, when Bush was elected (and reelected), I was dismayed beyond belief, because I thought he would bankrupt the government, stifle dissent, funnel money into oil and military, and thrash the economy. All of us on the left were quite upset, moving to Canada was a serious topic and something which I actually looked into. But we all kept out heads. None of us busted into a church dead set on killing republicans, or held a police standoff to protect our freedom of choice. So why have we seen such a rash of irresponsible rightist behavior? Again, I point to Rush, Sean, and their ilk for whipping up the frenzy -- not with facts but with propaganda and lies. This disconnect with reality is what I think leads their people to do crazier things.

        • 10 votes
        Reply#5 - Sun Apr 5, 2009 9:24 AM EDT
        Ire

        Heye, bondi - there is a definite correlation, there, though many on the right see their hate as "righteous indignation" due to their high propensity for brainwash.

        • 7 votes
        #5.1 - Sun Apr 5, 2009 11:56 AM EDT
        George-369262

        There is nothing more contemptible than using a tragedy like this to promote a political agenda. I suppose that AG Holder talking about renewing the assault rifle ban doesn't count ? That he doesn't speak for Obama on this issue ? Rush has nothing to do with this, and it's nonsense for you to say so.

        • 1 vote
        #5.2 - Sun Apr 5, 2009 11:58 AM EDT
        Ire

        To wit.

        • 3 votes
        #5.3 - Sun Apr 5, 2009 12:09 PM EDT
        John Franklin Mason

        Rush has nothing to do with this, and it's nonsense for you to say so.

        George-369262

        Rush has nothing but encouragement to do with this. I don't see you or any other ditto heads speaking out against guys like this threatening stuff like this all over the internet. In fact, on newsvine, the guys making the threats defend Limbaugh Cheese and Fox News seasoning just like you do.

        No links, just surf the threads and see for yourself, it's all in writing. Seems to me Rush promotes a political agenda by encouraging tragies like this and I have been saying so repeatedly all over newsvine from months. I'm certain you have seen the threats and warnings unless you chose to overlook them. I have seen your name before and in fact it would be interesting to see what comments you have been making.

        • 3 votes
        #5.4 - Sun Apr 5, 2009 4:01 PM EDT
        A Human-989802

        I agree with John. Did Limbaugh actively tell the guy to murder? No. But when Limbaugh spews his hateful, unfounded, fearmongering on open airwaves he certainly encourages people that are already mentally unbalanced.

        • 3 votes
        #5.5 - Sun Apr 5, 2009 4:04 PM EDT
        Oh WellDeleted
        Reply
        American Spirit

        I just heard some of this guy's history. Domestic violence calls, threats to kill his girlfriend. Why was he still allowed guns?

        • 7 votes
        Reply#6 - Sun Apr 5, 2009 10:46 AM EDT
        John Franklin Mason

        Why was he still allowed guns?

        American Spirit

        Had anyone reported that he had guns? I guess his family, friends and community was able to live with him and them.

        • 1 vote
        #6.1 - Sun Apr 5, 2009 5:49 PM EDT
        Reply
        southwest Page

        If that's the way we should think, Than I guess you could say that Obama is to blame. He's the one that scared this man in doing this irrational act. No will ever know just what was going on in this guys head, but you can bet nut job in the country is going to get on TV and tell us why it happened.

        • 1 vote
        Reply#7 - Sun Apr 5, 2009 10:56 AM EDT
        Victoriawood

        Dear Southwest,

        I find your post confusing.

        Than I guess you could say that Obama is to blame. He's the one that scared this man in doing this irrational act.

        Obama scared this man in doing this irrational act? Obama was doing the irrational act? What was the irrational act Obama was doing that scared this man?

        you can bet nut job in the country is going to get on TV and tell us why it happened

        Who is nut job in the country? New talk show we haven't heard of? Like Prairie Home Companion? I will be looking forward to hearing what nut job has to say on TV. Perhaps it was a nut allergy that drove the man to this ungodly heinous act of selfish, self-righteous terrorism.

        • 5 votes
        #7.1 - Sun Apr 5, 2009 11:41 AM EDT
        Ire

        Victoria,

        You're killin' me!

        • 4 votes
        #7.2 - Sun Apr 5, 2009 11:57 AM EDT
        Victoriawood

        In a good way, I hope. :)

        • 4 votes
        #7.3 - Sun Apr 5, 2009 1:08 PM EDT
        Ire

        Indeed! :)

        • 4 votes
        #7.4 - Sun Apr 5, 2009 1:51 PM EDT
        John Franklin Mason

        Obama is to blame. He's the one that scared this man in doing this irrational act.

        southwest Page

        You don't have to look far to find those that think like Poplawski. Maybe someone needs to take southwest Page's guns away too. The Fox Nation wants you to "Join us today and see you are not alone."

        The infamous pair that blew up the Oklahoma City Federal Building were homegrown terrorist and ditto heads.

        • 2 votes
        #7.5 - Sun Apr 5, 2009 6:35 PM EDT
        Reply
        eugenia crisanto

        this guy is a mental sick individual, it is no reazon to do .They have all kind excuses to kill inocent people.
        Many people lost their job and not go and kill.
        God Bless the familiy of these polices .God Bless America.

        • 2 votes
        Reply#8 - Sun Apr 5, 2009 11:27 AM EDT
        F-22-937412

        the man wasnt even a legal US citizen, why did the GOVERMENT allow him a pistol permit. in the upcoming political debates i forsee that that fact is going to be overlooked.

          Reply#9 - Sun Apr 5, 2009 12:16 PM EDT
          Marine 56

          why did the GOVERMENT allow him a pistol permit

          I saw nothing in the article that said he had a permit. If you think that the gun control laws in effect now or any future laws will keep the criminal element from having guns you are sadly mistaken. They are after all criminals and could care less about the laws. They will just buy on the black market as most do all ready!

          Gun control laws only affect law abiding citizens not criminals. They will get their guns even if you as a law abiding citizen can not.

          • 3 votes
          #9.1 - Sun Apr 5, 2009 12:38 PM EDT
          john-537378

          lots of dead people is just the price to be paid for a country awash with guns. When that price gets too large something will be done.

          • 2 votes
          #9.2 - Sun Apr 5, 2009 1:32 PM EDT
          John Franklin Mason

          Gun control laws only affect law abiding citizens not criminals.

          Marine 56

          Wasn't he a law abiding citizen before the shootings and a criminal during and after the murders? With the stuff put out by Rush Limbaugh and Fox Nation you would think he was in the "right."

            #9.3 - Sun Apr 5, 2009 5:56 PM EDT
            A Human-989802

            BS Marine 56. How do all of these other countries have stricter gun control laws?

            BTW - Question:

            In ALL of these shooting since the 1980s; NONE of the victims had a gun on their person? Not one? I wager that they did and still didn't do a damned bit of good.

              #9.4 - Mon Apr 6, 2009 8:43 AM EDT
              Reply
              pelican

              When a cop kills an innocent citizen, it gets swept under the rug with a city broom very quickly. You don't hear much about it later, and repeated inquiries are answered with: "SORRY SIR, THIS MATTER IS UNDER INVESTIGATION" and you are sent on your way, directed thru the maze of hierarcy of dept heads, phone numbers, contact lists, and so on until you end up chasing your tail.

              They have got this stuff down pat. Throw downs are common (and no, I don't watch too many cop shows)

              On the other hand, when a cop, or cops in this case are gunned down for no apparent reason, it hangs around forever, they put up another memorial, they have press conferences up the wazoo, fund drives, etc, and everyone goes home and pats their local cops on the head for a job well done.

              ?.......

              Cops are armed and trained to kill first and ask questions later. News archives are full of them.........

              Now try to fill in the blanks of what really happened...."in any of those broomed cases" and I'll listen to any of your pandering, bleeding heart posts with no argument.

              This is The USA and we ALL have a right to speak freely, no matter the view, Anyone ever listen to the shooter BEFORE he went on a rampage? Its ALWAYS the last resort in these peoples minds to resort to violence. Someone, somewhere had to have slammed the door in his face (figuratively speaking) more than a few times to drive him to this......

              Ask yourself honestly if you can, where YOUR breaking point is...........

              All I get from this story is: This was one pissed off person trying to get even with a system that LET HIM DOWN.......somewhere..... and a lot...

              • 1 vote
              Reply#10 - Sun Apr 5, 2009 12:42 PM EDT
              pelican

              The dog had to take a "PISS".... Now three cops are dead and a 23 year old is a killer.

              Nice going guys.

              ?

              That ought to stir up the pot.....

              • 1 vote
              #10.1 - Sun Apr 5, 2009 12:52 PM EDT
              Sherry working hard

              Yes the dog pissed in the house, now if my dog does this I immediately put on my bullet proof vest(because we all have one for these urine spills.) they are part of the protocol for cleaning up spills .Then I cause a domestic dispute so the cops can help clean up the mess. Then I hide so I can shot the cops. No I was not there but this is the standard...right? There is no way to condone what this individual did, the only STUPID thing he did was not shoot himself.

              • 1 vote
              #10.2 - Sun Apr 5, 2009 2:55 PM EDT
              A Human-989802

              Are you living under a rock Pelican? Cops who kill/hurt civilians are kept under wraps? Really? I suggest you go back in news archives and read up before you make such an erroneous statement. Let me give you a few names to start with:

              Rodney King

              Iman Morales

              Robert Dziekański

              Andrew Meyer

              Patrick Dorismond

              Sean Bell

              ALL of these stories were national, even international news. ALL of these men were killed BY cops. ALL of these were well publicized.

              What was there to talk about? The dog peed, mom and son got into an argument. So how is there any LOGICAL JUMP from an argument with mom to murdering three police officers? Answer: There is none.

                #10.3 - Sun Apr 5, 2009 3:16 PM EDT
                John Franklin Mason

                That ought to stir up the pot.....

                pelican

                It's the Limbaugh Cheese and Fox News seasoning that really reeks. They feed it to all that join in listening too Rush and the Fox News Nation.

                  #10.4 - Sun Apr 5, 2009 6:02 PM EDT
                  LasVegasRocks

                  pelican
                  All I get from this story is: This was one pissed off person trying to get even with a system that LET HIM DOWN.......somewhere..... and a lot...

                  Exactly how did the system "LET HIM DOWN?"

                  He lived in his momma's house? He attacked his Drill Sergeant in boot camp? He bought and traded guns on-line?

                  Who or what let him down?

                    #10.5 - Sun Apr 5, 2009 6:49 PM EDT
                    John Franklin Mason

                    All I get from this story is: This was one pissed off person trying to get even with a system that LET HIM DOWN.......somewhere..... and a lot...

                    pelican

                    Conservative seem to be very liberal in their judgement of Poplawski. Could it be that Conservatives wouldn't want others like Poplawski to feel they would be abandoned like Limbaugh abandoned, at lease publicly, the militants from which the Oklahoma City Federal Building bombers hailed? And Fox Nation says "Join us today and see you are not alone" so I'm sure they are likely to be liberal in their judgement to. Course we can expect, and even have already heard in this thread that it is the President's fault.

                      #10.6 - Sun Apr 5, 2009 6:51 PM EDT
                      pelican

                      "Are you living under a rock Pelican? Cops who kill/hurt civilians are kept under wraps? Really? I suggest you go back in news archives and read up before you make such an erroneous statement. Let me give you a few names to start with:

                      Rodney King

                      Iman Morales"

                      Ok I'll go there for the moment, but I'm really not sure what you are getting at...

                      In both cases the cops walked (even after the beatings and taserings were viewed by MILLIONS of people) and curiously in the Iman Morales case, the cop that killed him later commited suicide. Now just why do you think he did that?

                      .....and why do you think most cruisers have VIDEO recorders in them now?

                      I'm not going to give you a history lesson, Don't give me one.

                      I'm lucky to be alive right now and writing this. I was mistaken for a suspect driving a car like mine and was thrown on the ground at gun point and cuffed with the cops foot on by back, detained for 30 minutes, yelled at the whole time and accused of being somewhere I've never even heard of. A police report of the incident is nonexistent and the officers involved have had a gag order slapped on them for even talking to me.

                      ...by the way, I was in my own car lots parking lot.....

                      Sorry it didn't make the national news for your little list.........

                        #10.7 - Sun Apr 5, 2009 9:54 PM EDT
                        A Human-989802

                        That is not what you said though. You said, "When a cop kills an innocent citizen, it gets swept under the rug with a city broom very quickly. You don't hear much about it later, and repeated inquiries are answered with: "SORRY SIR, THIS MATTER IS UNDER INVESTIGATION" and you are sent on your way, directed thru the maze of hierarcy of dept heads, phone numbers, contact lists, and so on until you end up chasing your tail."

                        That is very different than arguing over the punishment or lack thereof for law enforcement killings.

                          #10.8 - Mon Apr 6, 2009 8:45 AM EDT
                          A Human-989802

                          Sorry. I was not giving you a history lesson. I was merely disagreeing with your statement that I found incorrect. If you are going to make a statement, be prepared to back it up. Don't get huffy because you (a) mis-spoke and (b) got proven wrong.

                            #10.9 - Mon Apr 6, 2009 8:47 AM EDT
                            A Human-989802

                            And my "little list"? I kept it short for clarity. Again - you do the research. If that really happened you should have fought harder to get it in the public eye. Otherwise - you are just part of the problem.

                              #10.10 - Mon Apr 6, 2009 8:48 AM EDT
                              pelican

                              A lawyer told me to let it go..... Sorry if I insulted you. I'm a peace loving person and my world was altered by the acts of a couple of bad cops who will not go away....

                              By the way, last Easter Sunday the cop that stopped me, found his guy in a yellow Mustang like mine and shot him and his passenger. The passenger was killed and the driver refuses to testify or even talk to investigators for fear he wont make it to see another Easter.

                              So far he will..... Maybe.

                                #10.11 - Mon Apr 6, 2009 7:29 PM EDT
                                Reply
                                Victoriawood

                                Wow! When I first read and commented, the dog pee part wasn't in there! Amazing how updates can put a different spin on things.

                                • 2 votes
                                Reply#11 - Sun Apr 5, 2009 1:12 PM EDT
                                John Franklin Mason

                                the dog pee part wasn't in there! Amazing how updates can put a different spin on things.

                                Victoriawood

                                The Limbaugh Cheese and Fox News seasoning were present from conception and the smell overpowers the pee anyhow.

                                  #11.1 - Sun Apr 5, 2009 6:55 PM EDT
                                  Reply
                                  marcus-592613

                                  This is another very sad moment in time. Three innocent lives and one confused individual are now dead. They leave behind family members on both sides that are hurting for their loved ones. Last week in Oakland, California the same event transpired with a similar out come. The public out cry though has been by far very different. Before you had a black suspect kill four police officers. Today we discuss a white suspect who killed three officers. This blog by now would have been in the hundreds filled with racial stereotyping and innuendos. As someone stated earlier, the past two weeks have been marred with mass killings and police shooting. 'What is the world coming too'?

                                    Reply#12 - Sun Apr 5, 2009 1:16 PM EDT
                                    waukone

                                    My own respectful challenge is on the use of the word "confused". The man was mentally ill and had show signs of his instability for a great deal of his life. When I say mentally ill it doesn't mean that he shouldn't bear the brunt of his actions. He wasn't confused he was CRAZY. Let's call it what it is.

                                    We should have billboards that say "If you want to hit, beat, kill your wife, kids, family and neighbors you are sick - go to your closest mental health facility before we have to pay to keep you locked up or the death penalty for the rest of your life - save the tax payors money- turn your self in". OK well its' a big sign.

                                    We still dance around the obvious.

                                    • 1 vote
                                    #12.1 - Sun Apr 5, 2009 2:00 PM EDT
                                    Sherry working hard

                                    The guy in Cali had a criminal record and was wanted. That man did not want to go back to jail so he decided to kill cops. I do not care what color they are that is not important. Then this guy who had a domestic violence issue shot and killed 3 cops.

                                    These cops were doing their jobs it does not matter the color. The color only matters to those who are racist themselves. If you are a criminal you should be held accountable. I do not see this neighborhood protesting that this guy was great as the Oakland one did. The Oakland neighborhood praised this man, he was a jail criminal no one is praising this Pitt cop killer. Is one black and the other white? Were the blacks praising their hero and the whites not because a criminal is a criminal. Two different events the blacks were praising that killer no one is praising this killer. See where I am going? Does it matter the color? Where is the common sense justice?

                                    • 1 vote
                                    #12.2 - Sun Apr 5, 2009 3:25 PM EDT
                                    John Franklin Mason

                                    'What is the world coming too'?

                                    marcus-592613

                                    A Fox Nation prehaps?

                                    • 1 vote
                                    #12.3 - Sun Apr 5, 2009 6:58 PM EDT
                                    Reply
                                    Head-Negro

                                    Mommy putting the bad boy out of the nest. What was he to do ? fill up his shopping cart with his PlayStation, bullet proof vest, assault rifles, guns and ammo and live on streets.

                                    • 2 votes
                                    Reply#13 - Sun Apr 5, 2009 1:43 PM EDT
                                    John Franklin Mason

                                    Mommy putting the bad boy out of the nest. What was he to do

                                    Head-Nergo

                                    Well he did not shoot mommy so he wasn't too pissed with her.

                                      #13.1 - Sun Apr 5, 2009 7:02 PM EDT
                                      Head-Negro

                                      He used his Mom as a shield and shot the Cops from behind her.

                                      she said she duck and ran for the basement and shouted what the hell you do that for??

                                      and he also didn't shoot the dog who started the whole mess in the first place

                                      • 1 vote
                                      #13.2 - Sun Apr 5, 2009 8:14 PM EDT
                                      ShellerDeleted
                                      Reply
                                      Spike Eng2

                                      The ease with which anyone can get any type of firearm that they want is disgusting. The hypocritical N.R.A. will defend to the death any psycho,s right to have his weapon of mass destruction. Why are military types of weapons allowed in the civilian sector? What does anyone of sane mind think will happen when some nut ball gets an AR 15 with a clip? I guess the right of some people to have any weapon that trips their trigger supercedes the right of everyone elses right to not be shot up by some nut job. Yes, I am a gun owner and I have no respect for the N.R.A. Reasonable gun laws do not infringe on anyone rights.

                                      • 3 votes
                                      Reply#14 - Sun Apr 5, 2009 2:04 PM EDT
                                      aliveinsd

                                      Spike: Well-said. Something is very wrong...read #17. I am in full agreement with you, and more. We could all move out, but leaving the ignorant in charge of the World's largest cache of nuclear and offensive arms is scary, too. Somebody needs to say it. Truth sits hard on the ears, but it IS truth.

                                      • 3 votes
                                      #14.1 - Sun Apr 5, 2009 2:58 PM EDT
                                      Reply
                                      magsby47

                                      I find it frightening so that many posters are looking to excuse this lunatic's actions. Sorry, but I've had a lot of very difficult times in my life, emotionally, spiritually and have been financially destitute with no parents or family to go live with like this guy had, and I've never even thought about hurting another human being because of my circumstances. This seeking justification is part of the Oprahification of America as I refer to it - no one is responsible for what they do, everything is blamed on real or perceived abuses suffered at some point in their life.

                                      There is evil in this world and not everyone who kills people does so because of mental illness or any circumstance but just because they need the sense of control and power or just because it is forbidden.

                                      • 3 votes
                                      Reply#15 - Sun Apr 5, 2009 2:07 PM EDT
                                      Head-Negro

                                      lol you think he watches Oprah

                                      more like Rushification and the same reason apply that you wrote

                                      wont take blame for their actions always pointing the finger at others as the problem and everybody is the enemy and coming to get you

                                      yep sounds like Rushification to me

                                      • 2 votes
                                      #15.1 - Sun Apr 5, 2009 2:29 PM EDT
                                      aliveinsd

                                      Agreed. So many simple excuses for so many horrific crimes. A crime by any other name is still a crime...

                                      The officer did not deserve to die. His job did not mean that he should risk death everyday at the hands of a killer, mental or not. The killer is tripe. The life of the police officer, his family, destroyed. Sickening.

                                      There are still more good people than bad on the planet. Though, with population exploding and limited resources, things might get worse, still.

                                      An old Native American saying: "Not all animals that go on two legs are Human, my son."

                                      • 3 votes
                                      #15.2 - Sun Apr 5, 2009 8:07 PM EDT
                                      Head-Negro

                                      here is your Oprahifcation right here

                                      http://head-negro.newsvine.com/_news/2009/04/05/2645301-poplawski-frequented-right-wing-and-neo-nazi-web-sites?threadId=546937&commentId=6333480#c6333480

                                      I hear they just love to watch Oprah, they never miss a show

                                      • 1 vote
                                      #15.3 - Sun Apr 5, 2009 11:47 PM EDT
                                      Reply
                                      Al 616

                                      I wish that fathead Limbaugh would STFU about Mr. Obama and do something good with the amount of listeners he has. He could actually try to reduce tensions and try to keep people calm. Instead, he's not exactly adding gasoline to the fire, but he is leaving the gas can out for anyone who might take it "without his knowledge."

                                      That man is stone cold greed evil.

                                      • 6 votes
                                      Reply#16 - Sun Apr 5, 2009 2:14 PM EDT
                                      Ire

                                      He's 0ne twisted mofo, alright.

                                      • 2 votes
                                      #16.1 - Sun Apr 5, 2009 5:18 PM EDT
                                      John Franklin Mason

                                      do something good with the amount of listeners he has.

                                      Al 616

                                      "Join us today and see you are not along." the Fox Nation. Rush Limbaugh and Fox News want to do something good for greedy capitalist and that is no taxes and no regulation.

                                      This incident curiously coincides with Rush Limbaugh call for "Boston Tea Parties."

                                      • 1 vote
                                      #16.2 - Sun Apr 5, 2009 6:10 PM EDT
                                      madvargr

                                      Maybe if all the right wingers got together for a tea bag session, they wouldn't be so high strung, shooting up cops and all...

                                      • 2 votes
                                      #16.3 - Sun Apr 5, 2009 10:51 PM EDT
                                      Reply
                                      aliveinsd

                                      Good Heavens!!

                                      Just how are police to do the job that they are sworn too? Officer Scullio, no doubt has family, perhaps wife and kids. How can any person that pretends to be part of the Human Race justify their existence after killing a policeman...just doing his job...?

                                      Pittsburg can join a list of "untouchable" communities: Detroit, Michigan; Compton, California; et al. They just don't seem to be quite Human, because how could a Human have an excuse, any excuse, for this behavior. Only animals could. Treat those cities as large zoos.

                                      It's like reading the "Travis" Chimpanzee attack on its owner's friend. Something is very wrong with those people. Lack of employment is NOT an excuse. There are at least, unofficially, 15% unemployed in the U.S. They are not murdering. They are making do and looking for work.

                                      Sickening.

                                      • 2 votes
                                      Reply#17 - Sun Apr 5, 2009 2:42 PM EDT
                                      Rixar13

                                      What a scary situation but I realize the possibility when anger is mixed with Menatl Illness. My step son now 17-1/2 was a very dangerous and my intuition kept me on guard. I feared he would stab me while sleeping so I did not sleep. After almost getting him in the Army he committed some serious crimes and the State of Maine is quite good and managing youthful offenders. He was put away until age 19 and my and my wife left the State.

                                      Margaret Poplawski opened the door and told them to come in and take her 23-year-old son, apparently unaware that he had grabbed a long rifle and was standing behind her, according to the court papers.

                                      • 3 votes
                                      Reply#18 - Sun Apr 5, 2009 3:16 PM EDT
                                      pelican

                                      from post 4.2......

                                      "If this is what freedom means then I think freedom should be reigned in because obviously it is not a good thing".......

                                      Is that what the answer is?...... Is that what everyone thinks will stop this kind of violence?

                                      Taking away freedom?

                                      There are more than a few posters on here that would address this violence by taking peoples rights away from them.

                                      Sorry, that's unacceptable for the majority of Americans, myself included.

                                      Clearly this guy should have been taken to a hospital long ago, evaluated, medicated and should have been in some sort of controlled medical program. Anger in anyone is progressive and can never be cured by more anger pointed in their direction. If you think this was one sick bastard, you are right. BUT WHY?

                                      Aren't you even curious?

                                      Please don't take my posts the wrong way, I would NEVER condone violence in ANY situation except to protect another from harm. But I would really like to know what turns ordinary people with seemingly small problems into raving lunatics......

                                      ....and don't just skirt the question by simply telling me he's just another nut job and was born to kill.

                                      In a dangerous world, that kind of thinking is not conducive to solving the violence problems that seem to be getting worse by the day.

                                      That guy had a reason, demented as it was, to get up that morning and put on a bullet proof vest....He bought it to use it... But why?.......

                                        Reply#19 - Sun Apr 5, 2009 4:18 PM EDT
                                        John Franklin Mason

                                        There are more than a few posters on here that would address this violence by taking peoples rights away from them.

                                        pelican

                                        Isn't it ironic people are talking about taking peoples rights away because of a few murders being committed by someone who was hearing and thinking the President was out to take his rights away? Of course he has proven to be the type most people here seem to think should not be in pocession of weapons anyway.

                                        Can you say Obama created this situation by wanting to get weapons out of the hands of deranged elements like Poplawski or has Rush Limbaugh and Fox Nation contributed to this situation by wanting to help keep weapons in the hands of people like Poplawski and saying to them "Join us and see you are not alone."

                                        • 1 vote
                                        #19.1 - Sun Apr 5, 2009 6:24 PM EDT
                                        Reply
                                        pelican

                                        If you all want to have a discussion about gun rights, or Obama, or whatever.... have at it, but.....

                                        Somehow I just thought THIS article was about a guy that gunned down three other human beings and I'm trying to understand why.

                                        No luck so far....

                                        I didn't come here to debate gun bans. But now that you asked, let me ask you how you would go about determining who gets them and what the requirements might be?.... besides the obvious one of being of sound mind....

                                          Reply#20 - Sun Apr 5, 2009 9:23 PM EDT
                                          A Human-989802

                                          1. Semi and automatic weapons need to be banned and destroyed.

                                          2. ANYONE with a mental or criminal history needs to be banned from EVER owning a gun

                                          3. ANYONE who was discharged from the military and/or law enforcement needs to be banned from EVER owning a gun.

                                            #20.1 - Mon Apr 6, 2009 8:51 AM EDT
                                            paflyer

                                            A Human-989802:

                                            1. Automatic, already limited through licensing... why "ban"? Do you honestly think that criminals give a (explative) about the law to begin with?

                                            2. Again, already in place in any state that does a background check. Then again, if they REALLY want a weapon, they will find a way to get it.

                                            3. You come on over to my house and TRY to take my weapons away from me (retired military). At least the military and law enforcement are (normally) trained on the proper use and care of weapons. You are making a broad generalization that is unwarranted and unjustified with this statement. Much like saying "take away all the weapons from the Democrats" because you think SOME of them may be irresponsible.

                                            I guess you are the "any weapon that has a clip needs to be banned" type of person then? That seems to be what SOME folks (in DC anyway) think is a good idea.

                                              #20.2 - Mon Apr 6, 2009 1:30 PM EDT
                                              A Human-989802

                                              1. That is why I said "ban and DESTROY"

                                              2. Not to the full extent that it should be used.

                                              3. I am making an educated judgment based on the facts of past serial killers and mass shooters. That should have said "dishonorably discharged".

                                              I think any semi or automatic weapon needs to be banned and destroyed. There is no need for them in the general public.

                                                #20.3 - Mon Apr 6, 2009 7:02 PM EDT
                                                Sgt C USMC

                                                A human,

                                                The university of Texas shooting (deadliest campus shooting until VA Tech) was done with a Remington model 700 bolt action rifle.

                                                Insurgents use fully automatic AK47's , and we use M16A4s in single shot mode. The difference is we focus on the quality of our shots, not the quantity. Our kill ratio in engagements is almost 100 /1. (Consider in Fallujah in 2004, we lost 34 servicemembers and killed over 1300 insurgents. ( I don't remember the exact number.)

                                                Any idiot can point a fully automatic weapon and spray a bunch of rounds. That's what automatic weapons do - they put a lot of lead into the air indiscriminitely. If you've ever seen two warring Iraqi factions in a firefight. They fire from the hip, and their goal is to put enough lead into the air that sooner or later, there's nowhere left to hide.

                                                Now in my (former) profession, I take only one shot from a bolt action rifle. The target never even heard the shot, all of a sudden the lights just went out.

                                                Guns don't kill people. Internal bleeding kills people. Only bullets that actually hit someone cause internal bleeding. The average rounds/kill ratio for an automatic weapon ? 12/1 . The ratio for a MP5 in 3 round burst ? 6/1. (That's with a skilled operator - the problem is the caliber of round. 9mm doesn't have a lot of stopping power.) The rounds / kills ratio for a single shot weapon ? 1.25 /1 . So for every 5 rounds a servicemember fires, 4 hit and kill their intended target.

                                                All the firepower /rate of fire doesn't mean a damned thing if the person you're spraying and praying at knows how to aim. You'll eventually run empty, and then the lights will go out...

                                                  #20.4 - Mon Apr 6, 2009 11:11 PM EDT
                                                  A Human-989802

                                                  Your post is totally convoluted. You are proving my point. Any idiot with a gun can spray bullets indiscriminately and kill. You can't honestly believe that knowing how to use a gun and not knowing how to use the gun makes the difference when it's being shot, do you?

                                                  • 1 vote
                                                  #20.5 - Tue Apr 7, 2009 9:20 AM EDT
                                                  A Human-989802

                                                  Guns cause the internal bleeding that kill people.

                                                  • 1 vote
                                                  #20.6 - Tue Apr 7, 2009 9:21 AM EDT
                                                  Sgt C USMC

                                                  A human,

                                                  You can't honestly believe that knowing how to use a gun and not knowing how to use the gun makes the difference when it's being shot, do you?

                                                  Considering 3 combat deployments, multiple firefights, and the fact that I'm still here? I most certainly can say that with complete confidence. Rate of fire has NOTHING do with the ability to effectively put rounds on target. If anything, it's a hinderance. And effectively putting rounds on target is the only thing that matters.

                                                  An M16A2 has a 3 round burst function which SOP says never gets used. The reason is, is the weapon rises high and to the right, so if the first shot is center mass, the second will be high in the shoulder, and the third will be a miss to the right of the head. We use the fully automatic function of M4 & M16A4s only as either suppressive fire, or a lure: the fireteam leader would open up, until he ran empty, and the DM would take down the adversary with one well placed shot when he popped up thinking that the shooter was out of ammo.

                                                  So yes, in my professional experience marksmenship is the ONLY thing that matters.

                                                  Cops need to more quickly decide to take headshots , rather than aiming center mass. But the theory is , the bigger the target, the easier it is to hit it.

                                                    #20.7 - Tue Apr 7, 2009 11:17 AM EDT
                                                    A Human-989802

                                                    Even if you are right and I am dubious about that, it doesn't make the difference to the people who are killed, now does it?

                                                    A gun that is neither semi or automatic is ALOT slower than either of the aforementioned - no matter WHO is using it.

                                                      #20.8 - Tue Apr 7, 2009 11:35 AM EDT
                                                      Sgt C USMC

                                                      A human, no it doesn't. But it makes the world of difference to those who are alive to go home to their families and friends.

                                                      For the most part you are correct. But I do know a few snipers in the military who can fire a bolt action .308 with near the same speed as a semi-automatic weapon. They are rare, it's true...and it's definitely a learned skill. But it is possible. A revolver in the right hands can fire just as fast as a semi auto pistol (you have to slap the hammer, but it's possible.)

                                                        #20.9 - Tue Apr 7, 2009 12:13 PM EDT
                                                        paflyer

                                                        IMO, banning all the weapons will only stop the LAW ABIDING folks. The criminal will find a way to get the weapon

                                                        I agree with Sgt C USMC in that the rate of fire doesn't make up for poor marksmanship. I have seen some folks with revolvers that will match and exceed semi-auto fire without a problem. Some of them even fire accurately as well.

                                                          #20.10 - Tue Apr 7, 2009 3:23 PM EDT
                                                          A Human-989802

                                                          Well, it sure didn't hurt the VT killer or the guy in Binghamton or in CA. Or many other places.

                                                            #20.11 - Tue Apr 7, 2009 10:43 PM EDT
                                                            Reply
                                                            bigbugy

                                                            One of the comments by the mother was that the son feared police would confiscate his guns under the Obama administration.

                                                            This is the kind of right wing bull that Bush provoked with his policy of fear to manipulate the public.

                                                            Then you got all kinds of web sites where people encourage this kind of non sense and rediculous fear and this is a result.

                                                            Paranoia sucks when you dont have the faculties to distinguish truth from lies and deciet.

                                                            • 4 votes
                                                            Reply#21 - Sun Apr 5, 2009 10:35 PM EDT
                                                            A Human-989802

                                                            I will ask this again since no one answered (to my knowledge):

                                                            To the pro-gun folks. Do you think any of the hundreds of people killed in mass shootings had a gun? If so, why weren't there any shots fired from them? I am SURE that out of all these shootings at least one victim had a gun in their possession.

                                                              Reply#22 - Tue Apr 7, 2009 9:21 AM EDT
                                                              Sgt C USMC

                                                              A human, I have a CCW permit. That doesn't mean I always carry my weapon. Sometimes it's not pratical due to what I'm wearing, sometimes it's not possible due to the location (state and government buildings, campuses, national parks, etc) all prohibit the carrying of firearms.

                                                              I 've read a few stories where people with CCW permits have stopped shootings.

                                                              http://www.qando.net/details.aspx?Entry=5861

                                                              http://voices.kansascity.com/node/1312

                                                              http://johnrlott.blogspot.com/2007/10/georgia-concealed-carry-holder-stops.html

                                                              Many of the shootings you see are places where the shooter knows that their prey (they are more or less prey at that point) can't be armed. They are predators at that point.

                                                              Consider in the mid 80s after the rash of German tourist killings in Florida that Florida went to an open carry policy. Everyone was allowed to carry a weapon, with one condition - the weapon must be loaded. (The reason for this was that if you pulled the weapon on someone , there was no question about your intention. Arizona has a similar policy.) Within 60 days , crime dropped 95% . Who wants to pickpocket someone they know would be armed ?

                                                              Personally, I think CCW permits should be much harder to get than they are in most states, and they should be standardized. You can take a 2 hour class, and be licensed to carry concealed in 42 states. I think CCW permits should require actual training and certification, mandatory yearly recertification, and actual qualification course requirements - much like the police are required to do. Again, having a weapon doesn't mean a thing if you can't hit your target.

                                                                #22.1 - Tue Apr 7, 2009 12:34 PM EDT
                                                                paflyer

                                                                I have also noticed that the shootings that were ended by a CCW are not as widely advertised by the media as those that end with multiple deaths. Seems the CCW ending the fight before it gets started doesn't serve the media's version of gun control.

                                                                As Sgt C says, the CCW should be hard to get. The background checks should be thorough, annual testing and qualification, LIVE FIRE (or at least blanks) and my version of gun control - HIT the target. Having a weapon to defend yourself doesn't help if you can't hit the broad side of a barn at 25 feet.

                                                                Standardization of the CCW would require states to agree with each other on requirements, and ... well, I can't see that happening. Would be nice, would possibly allow states to recognize other state's CCW permits.

                                                                  #22.2 - Tue Apr 7, 2009 3:29 PM EDT
                                                                  A Human-989802

                                                                  PA Flyer - you may very well be right. Interesting.

                                                                    #22.3 - Tue Apr 7, 2009 10:44 PM EDT
                                                                    Reply
                                                                    F-22-937412

                                                                    this is just a thought, if a group of people really wanted to make firearms illegal, why not have a bribe a bunch of people to use legally bought weapons in murders. that would be the easist way to get guns banned. there are people that determined and that sick minded.

                                                                      Reply#23 - Fri Apr 10, 2009 6:38 PM EDT
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