Obama announces plan to close tax loopholes

closing loopholes is not big government.

Hey OBOMBA...

Instead of Rasing the taxes on the overseas companies to encourage them to come back here....

How about you.... uh oh... here it goes.... I know you liberals have a heart attack when you hear this buuuuuuuuuuut..... how about you..

LOWER THE TAX RATE IN THE US....

GASP!!!!!!!

Behind, you are 100% correct.  When these changes take place it will lead to smaller government.  With these changes, a U.S. corporation doing business in 100 countries - GE, 3M, etc. will not be able to compete with similar businesses headquartered in other countries.  So we will lose even more jobs - yes high paying executive and headquarters positions.  With the loss of U.S. corporations there will be less taxes collected and therefore a smaller government will be the result as tax revenues will plummet and now that China has shut off the spigot of money back to us, we will not be able to keep the drunken spending going.

The U.S. still has a lower tax rate than Japan and Western Europe.

The concept of taxes is less applicable in China and other dictatorships in which behind the scenes bribery takes the place of tax revenue.

It always seems like the people who gripe the most about taxes are the ones who still have the most after-tax dollars left over.

Having said that, under no circumstances should Congress raise taxes for the foreseeable future. It is the worst thing they could do during a recession.

BJK - actually the U.K. has much lower corporate tax rates and many of the EU countries rates are lower too. The U.S. is at the higher end of tax rates on corporations today. We were lower under Reagan, but other countries saw the benefits to lowering tax rates and voila they not only caught us, but in fact surpassed us. That is why Rep. Rangel has been working on a plan to lower the top corporation income tax rate from 35% to 25-29%.

Hello, Mc Fly!

We lower our tax rate. The other countries lower the Tax Rate, loosen regulation like safety and good wages. We lower our taxes again. The other countries lower taxes again and even more loosen regulation.

Corporation will have more profits. Executives and other upper management get bigger bonuses, more stock options, etc with many more deferred until later.

Corporations still less likely to come back with jobs. US Government will find elsewhere for our taxes. The Rich? No, they will fight it to death payoff politicians. Eventually, it will return back to the Middle Class and Working Class already struggling.

Plus, we have less $$$ to cover our expenses so we will incur more debt. Are cut more expenses on Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, Defense, rebuild roads, etc. Unlikely!

Don't you love how most Republicans masses who are not in the upper tax brackets or are not responsible for corporate finance are more worry about them paying taxes than reality of themselves. The Middle Class and definitely the Working Class should be paying less taxes. Upper Tax Bracket and Corporation especially certain corporation using Tax Haven, etc should be paying more taxes.

Did you know? A some corporation with creative accountants and tax lawyers pay less taxes percentage wise than more poverty tax rate people. Not all Corporation pay their fair taxes.

mr.o,

Why don't you start with your administration and make sure they are all paid up to date first, including the "LOAN SHARK" penalty & interests the IRS charges, they should have had to pay like we do....................

So, adding 800 new tax agents is going to reduce the size of government. Could somebody please explain the logic behind that one. Also, we know how the government works, it will start with 800 and climb astronomically from there. I agree with DavidC123. Why not try to entice these corps back to US soil instead of penalizing them. And as for finding Tax Havens a violation of US Tax Law and holding those who have them accountable will never come to fruition. Hell I would lay odds that 95% of Congress would have to be held accountable as well as most of Obamas tax cheat administration. This administration is in so far over their heads I can only hope someone with some sense throws them a life preserver.

Half the tax cheats are or were going to be in mr.o's administration......

Big Brother wants the big Companies to merge together around the world...so they have better control over the population of the world....this is the beginning of the new world order, you all have been saying is a bunch of poppy cock.....you'll see...the world will all be under one government in less than 100 years.........if mr.o has his way it would be tomorrow with him as the supreme ruler.............sittin' on Lincoln's lap smilin' ............

You all sound like you know exactly what you're talking about. Maybe you should have all run for president.

/sarcasm.

Sounds good to me. Ship those jobs overseas? Lose your tax haven.

davidC123

Instead of Rasing the taxes on the overseas companies to encourage them to come back here....

How exactly would you propose Obama raise taxes over seas? Lay out a plan for him. Might be interesting.

David

Instead of Rasing the taxes on the overseas companies to encourage them to come back here....

Companies which make profits overseas are not taxed on those profits unless they repatriate them. This was past by order of Corporate America. If they pay local taxes to their host countries, they can deduct these taxes off their facilities state side! What more do you want?!

How about you.... uh oh... here it goes.... I know you liberals have a heart attack when you hear this buuuuuuuuuuut..... how about you..

LOWER THE TAX RATE IN THE US....

Big business doesn't pay nearly the amount of taxes you think because over the years they purchased 'the good will' of Congress and the White House.

I really don't understand what conservative's expect.

They expect Obama to lower taxes everywhere while balancing the budget and at the same time they scream and yell if you mention cutting their piece of the pie.

I hate having to inject tax payer money into the economy, but how quickly you forget that Bush did the same thing in November, the only difference is that Obama is attempting to make sure that the money is used properly to help the economy and not just give management bonuses. Obama's stimulus package probably could have been less if the first stimulus package wasn't such a failure due to lack of regulation.

Regulation is what the American financial system needs, the state we are in is a direct cause of the lack of it, they have already proven they can't be trusted. Regulating them is not socialism, it is protecting the government's investment and trying to prevent this from happening again.Protecting your investment and having a say how the corporation you support is run is a capitalist idea, not socialist

The fallacy of tax breaks for corporations is that people think if companies have more money it will trickle down the the employee's, but that is not what happens, the reason for this recession is simple corporate greed, they did whatever they could to make a quick buck, and screwed over the majority of the population and is the direct reason I lost over 50% of my money in my 401K.

The reality is that to balance the budget you need to raise funds, he's not even making or raising taxes on this one, just closing a loophole that should have never existed. We can't trust these corporations to fix the problem they created and I think it's high time the working class republicans realized that the republican agenda is not designed to help you, it's designed to increase the wealth of the people who screwed us over.

The working class needs affordable health care, good schools, and power that doesn't cost an arm and a leg, which means alternative power sources and new technology and the corporations you are protecting won't give you that.

It's hilarious that a group of tax cheats known as the Obama Administration desires to crack down on.......tax cheats!!!

I couldn't make this sh!t up if I tried. Thanks for the laugh.

Lets just tax the crap out of the job producing companies, and see how much job growth we have from the middle and lower class.

That should get things going.

Then we can complain about bad health care, schools and higher power bills, as the wealthy companies take their money and run and/or, go over seas and produce for overseas only.

Then there's that Hide the money and government seeks game. Where's the money!

Then government can raise revenue from the middle and lower class. What a boom for us again.

finally a president that will take the lead. now maybe the poor will benefit for awhile instead of the selected few.

@ lostsoul:

The only way the poor will benefit is from government checks. Companies that hire them will be a distant past.

jbdaad.............

How exactly would you propose obama raise taxes over seas?

He does not have to tax them over there....he just has to raise the import taxes on the products coming into America...............

Or raise the taxes on our "raw material" export suppliers......

Breaking News: Your going to have to pay a death tax starting next week....you have to fill out the form 6 weeks before your anticipated death, with your payment included or you'll have to pay late fees and penalties.............

Enigma69

I really don't understand what conservative's expect.

They expect Obama to lower taxes everywhere while balancing the budget and at the same time they scream and yell if you mention cutting their piece of the pie.

Yes. We want Obama to lower taxes, but we also want him to cut spending. How is Obama balancing the budget when he is borrowing and printing Trillions? That's not balance. It's debt. That's a fact and it's not rocket science.

I hate having to inject tax payer money into the economy, but how quickly you forget that Bush did the same thing in November, the only difference is that Obama is attempting to make sure that the money is used properly to help the economy and not just give management bonuses. Obama's stimulus package probably could have been less if the first stimulus package wasn't such a failure due to lack of regulation.

Just because Bush did it fist doesn't mean it's right and it doesn't mean that Conservatives supported Bush's actions because we didn't. If TARP money that was spent under Bush was mismanaged it's because Bush made the mistake of allowing the Democrats to write the TARP bill. It was the Democrats that wrote the damn thing, Bush merely signed it.

Regulation is what the American financial system needs, the state we are in is a direct cause of the lack of it, they have already proven they can't be trusted. Regulating them is not socialism, it is protecting the government's investment and trying to prevent this from happening again.Protecting your investment and having a say how the corporation you support is run is a capitalist idea, not socialist

Yes you must have regulations to help prevent fraud and other white collar criminal activity. I cannot disagree with you there. But it's not the regualtions that have us screaming socialism. It's the government takeover of business. The government is going beyond the limits placed on them by the Constitution in the form of bailouts and controlling stock in American companies.

The fallacy of tax breaks for corporations is that people think if companies have more money it will trickle down the the employee's, but that is not what happens, the reason for this recession is simple corporate greed, they did whatever they could to make a quick buck, and screwed over the majority of the population and is the direct reason I lost over 50% of my money in my 401K.

We know this recession was caused by greed. What does tax breaks for companies have to do with it? Want to see more jobs leave this country? Tax companies more. I hope Obama's plan goes through. Then we will see who is right and who is wrong about this, Liberals or Conservatives.

The reality is that to balance the budget you need to raise funds, he's not even making or raising taxes on this one, just closing a loophole that should have never existed. No.

The reality is that to balance the budget you need to stop all of this excessive borrowing and spending. You will never balance the budget by increasing debt. Never. And this is exactly what Obama is doing.

We can't trust these corporations to fix the problem they created

Then why did Bush and Obama bail these corporations out? Why did the government put multi-billions of bailout money into the hands of the very companies responsible for this crisis? Why do these companies CEO's still have their cushy jobs?

The government should never have given taxpayer money to these people. Yes the government needed to step in. But not in the way that they did. They should have refused to bailout any of the banks, put the proper regulations in place to prevent this type of fraud from occurring again, and investigated and prosecuted the people who made this crisis possible.

We are 8 months into this economic crisis, yet not 1 arrest. Why?

and I think it's high time the working class republicans realized that the republican agenda is not designed to help you, it's designed to increase the wealth of the people who screwed us over.

You mean like the Bush/Obama bailouts?

greg709692 i was not talking about hiring of mexicans, i was talking about our own poor people in the united states. as rich as our county is as they say since everyone wants to get here. why is it our own people are hurting and i dont mean immigrants i mean original americans. born and raised here people. that can talk english. we need to watch out for our own for once instead of people that dont give a crap about us anyway. they are in the states to take and not give. obama has woke up alot of ideas to numerous ideas that will work but it takes working together to get anything done.

All Non-profit and Churches pay a Flat 5% Federal Tax - No Deductions allowed

All Corporations should have to pay a Flat 10% Tax of Gross income in Federal Taxes - No Deductions allowed

All Individuals should have to pay a Flat 15% Tax of Gross income in Federal Taxes- No Deductions allowed

No City, County, or State should charge income taxes.

All States should charge a standard Flat 10% Sales Tax on any and all purchases.

The above should work, if I did my math right we will be out of debt by Christmas 2010...

i was not talking about hiring of mexicans

Nether was I!

As far as government Help, You need to talk to this government. They seem to want to stop the crackdown on the Illegals.

See Napolitano and Pres. Obama on Immigration Policy and Border shut downs. They don't even think its important to stop travel between us and mexico, due to the swine flu, and its coming from there. Same with Illegals.

Shut the Illegal Problem down, get the lower class to take those jobs, after we get rid of Illegal immigration, they will have pay, health care, schools etc...

Mr C

Yes. We want Obama to lower taxes, but we also want him to cut spending. How is Obama balancing the budget when he is borrowing and printing Trillions? That's not balance. It's debt.

You should be criticizing the previous administration much more harshly than the present for this mess. If they had things in hand we wouldn't need to spend what we are spending to hopefully get things going. I'm afraid things are so bad that no amount of money will do more than start a recovery which will crash in no time. At least we must try something other than old, wornout cliches like, "We want Obama to lower taxes, but we also want him to cut spending."

Mr C

Then why did Bush and Obama bail these corporations out? Why did the government put multi-billions of bailout money into the hands of the very companies responsible for this crisis? Why do these companies CEO's still have their cushy jobs?

An excellent question deserves an excellent answer: Corporations and Wall Street own the government. No other country in the first world would ever allow corporations the free-for-all that this government has.

DaVinci-984257

You should be criticizing the previous administration much more harshly than the present for this mess.

This mess was caused by deregulation of the banking industry. Not Bush.

When the Glass-Steagll Act was repealed it allowed the banks to become what our governments says is too big to fail. It allowed commercial and investment banks to consolidate into mega-firms and go crazy. Republicans did draft this bill, but it was indeed supported by Democrats and signed into law by Clinton at the end of his Presidency. The effects of this most certainly would landed on Bush's Presidency. You are blaming him for something he had nothing to do with whatsoever.

If they had things in hand we wouldn't need to spend what we are spending to hopefully get things going.

So you're answer to clean up after Bush is to borrow and spend 4 times more money than Bush and create 4 times more debt than Bush created? Do you know how foolish that sounds?

And what exactly did you want Bush to do? Did Clinton and the Democrats that helped Republicans repeal Glass-Steagall have the foresight to see what this terrible legislation would allow to happen to the economy before they repealed it? No.

I'm afraid things are so bad that no amount of money will do more than start a recovery which will crash in no time. At least we must try something other than old, wornout cliches like, "We want Obama to lower taxes, but we also want him to cut spending."

It's not a cliche. Bush lowered taxes but did not cut spending. Obama claims he is going to lower taxes but will not cut spending. Both are creating wreckless debt without consideration of unforseen crises that may come in the future.

Stop blaming only one party. This crisis was a bi-partisan phuck up in the biggest way.

DaVinci-984257

Mr C

An excellent question deserves an excellent answer: Corporations and Wall Street own the government. No other country in the first world would ever allow corporations the free-for-all that this government has.

Well then surely you must see and agree that banking corporations own Obama's a$$ too. They owned Clinton, they owned Bush, and now they own Obama.

Why is it that the people appointed to address and fix this crisis come from the Goldman Sachs frat club?

Mr C

This mess was caused by deregulation of the banking industry. Not Bush.

Let me start out by saying that I forgot the "s" off of "previous administration"! Sorry

The mess was not caused by deregulation of the banking industry alone. It's not that simple. For 8 long years Bush was in bed with Wall Street and look the other way. Prior to this the previous three administrations were as one in ignoring things when it came to the real power in this country. Clinton was too busy with his women. Bush I needed a war to show this nation and the world that in the near future there would be no more borders, nationalities, in effect no more countries, just a financial elite that would run things. This was his "New World Order". As for Reagan, he didn't know one day from another.

Mr C

Why is it that the people appointed to address and fix this crisis come from the Goldman Sachs frat club?

It's people like this who own America. This is why the Bush people were so quick to shove the bailout down the throats of their masters on Wall Street. They didn't want any debate on the subject as Wall Street over the years took out what we might call an "insurance policy" just in case things went South. The government said that some were too big to fail. Fine, as that suggests they are near monopolies which have far too much power. If so they should be broken up so they cannot bring down a country so easily again.

DaVinci-984257

The mess was not caused by deregulation of the banking industry alone.

That's true. The CRA and Democrats allowing Fannie and Freddie to go crazy and low income families to take out mortgages they couldn't afford helped push this this along also.

Bush was in bed with Wall Street and look the other way. Prior to this the previous three administrations were as one in ignoring things when it came to the real power in this country. Clinton was too busy with his women. Bush I needed a war to show this nation and the world that in the near future there would be no more borders, nationalities, in effect no more countries, just a financial elite that would run things.

You mean kind of like how Obama is in bed with the banks and AIG? To pin this only on Bush II is rediculous and I'm glad to see you can acknowledge that Bush I and Clinton had a hand in this.

This was his "New World Order".

The NWO has been the agenda for corporate elitists for decades now. It's not just a Bush thing. It's called Globalism. And Obama is an accomplice because he is a Globalist.

I amazed when I hear someone say that these companies who already moved their jobs overseas should not be made to pay their taxes, because they will move their jobs overseas. What in the hell are you guys smoking?

My ex-husband worked in a call center for Avon in the US. They closed the call center and now route all the calls through one in India. They still sell goods in the US but since the orders are being placed in India (overseas) they don't have to pay taxes! No wait they do have to pay taxes if they bring that money into the US so instead they make off-shore accounts so they don't have to. So they took the jobs away, they get to keep all the money and don't pay taxes!

BUT the current President shouldn't fix this because there are people in his administration are not up for saint hood! YOU HAVE TO BE KIDDING ME!

You all sound pretty stupid.

Closing loopholes on corporate tax cheats will reduce the deficit.

* The Dead Head *#1.18

He does not have to tax them over there....he just has to raise the import taxes on the products coming into America...............

Or raise the taxes on our "raw material" export suppliers......

Now were getting somewhere. Continue from here.

Unless there are some more slimy whiny maggots that have some more to say.

DaVinci-984257

Mr C

It's people like this who own America. This is why the Bush people were so quick to shove the bailout down the throats of their masters on Wall Street. They didn't want any debate on the subject as Wall Street over the years took out what we might call an "insurance policy" just in case things went South. The government said that some were too big to fail. Fine, as that suggests they are near monopolies which have far too much power. If so they should be broken up so they cannot bring down a country so easily again.

What do you think of Obama's boy Geithner and his Goldman ties? He is a Goldman Sachs sympathizer. Again kindly stop with the Bush blame and focus on the bi-partisan globalists that are running this country into the ground.

Patrick The Mighty Quinn

Closing loopholes on corporate tax cheats will reduce the deficit.

Not unless the government stops borrowing and spending. Do you have proof that they will?

Anyone in congress that does not approve of this, or gives a hard time in passing this should be carefully considered to be a tax cheat. Why would they be against this, unless they intentionally pack the "bill" with all kinds of junk so that it does not pass. We should demand, along with Obama, a clear bill, with no junk. This "bill" should not have any problem getting through congress, and should draw huge concern about the "invaders" we have in congress.

roadlesstraveled

Why would they be against this, unless they intentionally pack the "bill" with all kinds of junk so that it does not pass

Exactly! 300 plus Bills they have to work on and most of it is junk! There are much better ways that these can be handled if not for all the junk.

So, adding 800 new tax agents is going to reduce the size of government. Could somebody please explain the logic behind that one. Also, we know how the government works, it will start with 800 and climb astronomically from there. I agree with DavidC123. Why not try to entice these corps back to US soil instead of penalizing them. And as for finding Tax Havens a violation of US Tax Law and holding those who have them accountable will never come to fruition. Hell I would lay odds that 95% of Congress would have to be held accountable as well as most of Obamas tax cheat administration. This administration is in so far over their heads I can only hope someone with some sense throws them a life preserver.

I like what you said! But wouldn't it be easier to spot these "tax cheats" if this plan passed? Wouldn't it give everyone a great advantage picking their next candidate if this plan passed and we could see who and what companies "steal" money from the U.S-us?

roadlesstraveled

But wouldn't it be easier to spot these "tax cheats" if this plan passed? Wouldn't it give everyone a great advantage picking their next candidate if this plan passed and we could see who and what companies "steal" money from the U.S-us?

Assistance To Keep Politicians Honest Try here.

jbdaad- I hope Im not one of those slimy whiny maggots.... thanks for that last link.

The Dead Horse wrote:

He does not have to tax them over there....he just has to raise the import taxes on the products coming into America...............

Or raise the taxes on our "raw material" export suppliers......

I work in raw materials....they are shipping our jobs overseas...Raw materials has been hit the hardest by this recession and is on the verge of moving all suppliers and manufactures out, to China, Spain, and Germany. They have already purchased the lands over in China and are currently building hundreds of plants (all diff materials)there. I believe in two, maybe three years we will not have but a few left.

When that happens, will you all be happy? I like working.

Oh, The Dead Horse, I really liked post 1.21, it should be that way already.

roadlesstraveled

I hope Im not one of those slimy whiny maggots.... thanks for that last link.

I don`t think so. No prob on the link.

We all get frustrated sometimes. Me too. :(

roadlesstraveled

Dead Horse?.............I may be on my last leg, but I'm not done yet................

Businesses do not pay taxes. They pass these costs on to consumers just like the costs of the labor and materials used to produce the goods and services they provide. If you raise taxes on business, these costs will simply be added to the sales price of all the goods and services consumed by all of us. This is simply more feel-good talk from the liberals and like all their feel-good ideas, the American taxpayer will foot the bill.

Businesses do not pay taxes. They pass these costs on to consumers just like the costs of the labor and materials used to produce the goods and services they provide

Important point to look into to assure it does not happen. Any ideas?

Businesses do not pay taxes,

Exactly......that is why this country is broke....................OH by the way....it depends on how good your CPA is too..................mine is really good...............

` If you raise taxes on business, these costs will simply be added to the sales price of all the goods and services consumed by all of us. This is simply more feel-good talk from the liberals and like all their feel-good ideas, the American taxpayer will foot the bill.

ever hear of BOYCOTT?

Smoot-Hawley ring a bell?

I just want the Timmy Geithner tax plan. That's all. Prettys simple if you ask me. Nothing like a tax cheat fixing the tax issues. Kindda like failed bank execs. fixing banking problems. This BO guy really is smart. LOL Yes we can!

I just want my one paragraph IRS Code as drafted above.......#1.21.

But it is too simple of a Tax Code......plus then we'll need to bailout all the CPA firms and accountants who will not be needed anymore, and abolish 90% of the IRS staff and buildings, because it could all be electronically done, the 10% staff still on duty will be for audits, administration, paper jams, etc...

accountants will still be needed, as will CPAs because businesses will still need accounting for their internal fiscal monitoring and planning.

Of course CPA's will still be needed, but they won't have to go through 60,000 pages of IRS Charmin [tax codes]....

I know you have to keep track of accounts receivables, etc......

Or it should read "Obama provides additional incentive for profitable companies to take their business elsewhere."

Everybody whines about companies moving their manufacturing operations to other countries then applaud this kind of crap. What do you expect?

Take their businesses elsewhere?

Like where?

Canada? Europe? Australia? Those places have higher taxes than us?

Mexico, South America? Good luck with all of the crime and graft in those places?

Southeast Asia? Perhaps.

If they go elsewhere, they will not enjoy the creature comforts of America.

Only Japan taxes corporate income at a higher rate than the U.S. Germany had higher tax rates than the U.S. in 2000 but now has a lower rate (38.9 percent). Ireland has a 12.5 percent corporate rate, nearly the lowest in the world, and yet collects 3.6 percent of GDP in corporate revenues, well above the international average. The U.S., by contrast, with its near 39.3 percent rate, has been averaging less than 2.5 percent of GDP in corporate receipts.

US has the second highest business tax in the world. And that's before our corporations get obama-nized.

Like where?

Like nooooowhereee.

This is a threat for the gullible. If they move to a -gasp- socialist country, like denmark, canada, japan, etc. they'll face pay limitations, government regulation, mandatory benefits for their employees.

If they go to mexico or china they won't make any money selling their product. These companies will stay right here and gripe because they can't play robber baron anymore.

Janice,

Where will they take it? If they do business here we will tax them... Who doesn't want to do business in the most consumer driven economy on the planet?

jawill11 - this will hurt U.S. based corporations. You might know them. They provide JOBS. If GE, Boeing, 3M, etc. are forced to comply with this law while their counterparts in other countries are not, then they will not be able to compete and the end result will be these companies either relocate their HQ overseas (loss of U.S. jobs) or they go BK (loss of U.S. jobs unless you count BK attorneys as job creation). Sorry, I do not buy your approval, but feel free to support this. Just no complaining when the company you work for is out of business.

An Interesting Point,

Ireland is going bankrupt...

http://bankruptcy.org.uk/2388/bankruptcy-news/how-ireland-became-an-economic-basket-case-and-the-lessons-for-daily-mail/

also those businesses who bank offshore receive TAX BREAKS when are no longer US companies..they are global companies.

these same businesses claim that they pay global taxes but no proof and they need to show that they really paid if not they need to pay their share to cover roads, sewage, infrastructure care.

Like where?

Like nooooowhereee.

This is a threat for the gullible

You all should do some research. USA taxes on corporations are like 40 percent compared to Europe as around 23 percent. Mexico and most of the rest of the World is LOWER than the USA. The USA is in the top bracket for highest taxes on corporations... so Obama raising it.. will probably put us smack in number 1 spot. Unless you can show me otherwise. Theres an old saying "Don't bite the hand that feeds you". How many of you don't work for one of these big corporations your so happy to tax more?? Honestly...?

One source:

http://www.cnsnews.com/Public/content/article.aspx?RsrcID=36986

This is something people need to get through their skulls: no business ever pays a tax. It is all calculated into the cost of the product/service. Raise taxes and you will eventually see prices rise as the additional cost is factored in. It cracks me up how hypocritical politicians who want to "help the poor" are.

Who will this measure really hurt while basking in the glow of moral superiority: consumers and people struggling to get by.

Who will this measure really hurt while basking in the glow of moral superiority: consumers and people struggling to get by.

Bingo! Thank you.

ohiogal-479871

please take the time to do some research before you begin to even comment.

robber barons is a nonsense word. try googling the truth about the so called robber barons.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=active&ei=0hX_SeivFMfAtwf75cSRDA&sa=X&oi=spell&resnum=0&ct=result&cd=1&q=robber+barons&spell=1

Mav

janice

Or it should read "Obama provides additional incentive for profitable companies to take their business elsewhere."

So let them but do not allow their products to enter the US. The people in this nation have yet to learn that a small number of big investors couldn't care less about this nation. They want to live here as it is the best place in the world to live in many ways. However, they want to make money by offshoring American jobs which is destroying the standard of living of most people in this nation. Most nations take care of their own, in American big business there is no sense of obligation to borders, just profit for a small few.

i totally agree, the companies have lived high on the hog long enough let them know what its like to really work for there money. flying private jets and big money for bonuses why didnt they take the bonus out of there own paycheck.

ohiogal-479871

If they go to mexico or china they won't make any money selling their product. These companies will stay right here and gripe because they can't play robber baron anymore.

Yes they will. They will make money by shipping and selling their products to America just like any of the foreign companies doing business here that don't pay high taxes on their exports to this country. They will benefit greatly from this thing called NAFTA. Maybe you've heard of it.

janice

US has the second highest business tax in the world. And that's before our corporations get obama-nized.

Few corporations pay the maximum tax rate. There are so many loopholes that many corporations pay next to nothing.

Mr. C

And we then excise taxes on them for doing business here.

It's highly unlikely that will happen. If American companies move out of America outright they will be new foreign companies doing business in America and NAFTA will proptect them just like it does current foreign companies doing business in the U.S. now.

You're not very bright, are you?

economicparty, janice, etc. See my response at comment #39 to the issue of passing taxes onto the consumer.

U guys aren't very convincing.

I say let them goooooo! There is only a finite amount of companies that are capable to go and a finite amount of places they can go. You think other countries can support a company's growth like Americans can? Nope. So no matter what lies they tell to reel in the gullible on their side, if they want to make money they will keep their sellling their products here no matter what.

All these companies want to do is, take advantage of other countries cheap labor and then hike up prices to take advantage of us. If I had my way Id say tax the @#$% out of these ROBBER BARONS. >:)

(btw this isn't obama is doing he is just getting those @#$%ers that cheat using tax havens in the first place)

If the former U.S. companies become foreign companies wanting to invest in the U.S. then the U.S. can impose a high tarriff on those goods getting those lost taxes. They will stay in the U.S. Besides, I thought all the jobs were already being shipped overseas?

Dawn

If the former U.S. companies become foreign companies wanting to invest in the U.S. then the U.S. can impose a high tarriff on those goods getting those lost taxes.

If we are trading with a member of the World Trade Organization (WTO) then we cannot levy tariffs except under a very few situations.

As Mr C and DaVinci has pointed out, we have a problem.

these trade agreements are what kicked the door open to all this offshoring and sheltering of profits. The Business friendly politicians have been reving up to screw America for decades and once we joined the WTO and gave China "most favored nation" status, it was all over.

Dead Head - great idea. Let's tax corporations at 10% of their gross income. Brilliant Einstein.

Have you ever looked at a financial statement or tax return of most businesses? Most make less than 10% of revenue in net profit so basically you want to tax them far in excess of their net income from operations. Some grocery stores have a 2% net profit so they should lose 8%. You must live in CA as this is the logic of taxes in that over-taxed state.

So my brilliant friend, let's tax you at 15% of gross income on individual income as you so eloquently suggest. Now remember, your employer should then add to your taxable gross income the social security and medicare taxes, health insurance premiums, pension or profit sharing plan, life insurance, disability insurance, etc. So if you have a great benefits package your taxable gross could be 150% of your gross pay. So now you are really paying 22.5% tax (15% of 150%). Welcome to the economic party!

economicparty

Einstein.......nope..........but real close.......I own 3 Corporations.......and have a chit load of CPA's & Lawyers on staff....

Funny thing too.........I get refund checks...........

economicparty

Oh by the way...........those numbers above in #1.21 were not meant to be hard number's, just a guide to get the ball rolling....the system we have now .....SUX...

Have a nice day.............

Awww, poor little billionaires. I feel so sorry for them.

And you'll feel really sorry for yourself when the company you or your spouse or your children work for moves overseas.

OR,

Lays you off because the money that they HAD to pay you with now needs to go to the government's tax bill..

So now you will have no job... but not to worry, you can always get your 200 dollar monthly welfare check.... which is FAR better than working right...?

But you can't find a job, because all the money that the company had to pay you, now has to be given to the Obama abortion lover, tax lover, his GLAMOROUS wife, and their dog fu fu.... Not to mention his kids private tudors.

Newly remodeled kitchen, new plants for the yard....

OH and gasp... what is Michell gonna wear to the white house bathroom.... maybe a diamond studded GLAMOROUS bathrobe!!

GASP!!

Then maybe Vanity Fair can take pictures of it.... after all that is SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO important..

No, I am not hating on her.... I just don't give a flying swine flu crap what she wears... if DOES NOT need to be on every news channel..... I am not impressed by glamor....

This is another example of why we need to go to a flat or fair tax. 800 new IRS employees is not what we need. The present tax code is already over 7 million words long and we feel we need to expand on that? The fair tax concept would do away with the IRS, I am starting to feel this would be a good idea. After reading the fair tax website it seems to be a fairly easy plan to implement. We need to attract new business not drive it away. What effect would that have on foriegn companies such as Toyota like businesses that have factories here, would they try and tax the parent company on their profits? If so that is going to drive out alot of investment and jobs here. I do not think any of the adminisrtations new tax plans this or cap and treade will raise the revenue they are planning on. To raise the billions they want are based on present revenue and employee numbers which will in all likelihood would fall substantially. Which in turn the revenue needed to fund the new spending will come from taxpayers on all levels. I don't think these are very well thought out plans.

FLAT TAX, CONGRESSIONAL TERM LIMITS, LINE ITEM VETO. Have a nice life.

The flat or fair tax is not a very well thought out plan in itself!!... I agree it sounds very good in theory, I had to do some research on it myself!!! The problem with it, is that as cliche as it sounds.... the rich really will become richer and we will see an extinction of the middle class. Do you know how much annual interest is accrued on $1 million in a normal savings account?? (5-8%). While the rest of us gain around 1%. The modern tax code is implemented to combat this trend. Also, another problem with a fair tax is that these percentages mean a lot more to people who don't make that much money....

On 10% flat tax:

10% on 30K.... $3000 may mean feeding this person's family

10% on $1 Million..... $100,000 may mean you can't afford that new Bentley

but those same companies have moved off shore along with their money but they still receive TAX BREAKS

Look at haliburton, it has moved DUBYA where they get to live the fabulous life, claim to be AMERICAN company but don't employee AMERICANS

They receive Government contracts BUT EMPLOYEE cheap labor FROM AROUND THE 3RD WORLD COUNTRIES

DC42- you need to reread the fair tax, a family making 30K will get a rebate check every month. It is a 23% tax on what you purchace. A new car you pay 23%, used car you pay 0%, the tax was already payed. There is alot more to it, that is is just a small examle. By reading your comment I see you haven't really researched it. Google fair tax and have a look.

Ms.B- Halliburton works in almost every country in the world, including the U.S. Their main business is oilfield service. They were given a no bid contract in the middle east because they were the only company at the time that had equipment already in place. They have been involved in servicing the oilfields in the middle east and the rest of the world for decades. They employ a large number of american citizens both domestic and overseas. In other countries by contract they have a certain percentage of local citizens that has to be employed. The operations in the U.S. only employ U.S. citizens or legaly documented workers.

FLAT TAX, CONGRESSIONAL TERM LIMITS, LINE ITEM VETO. Have a nice life.

janice

And you'll feel really sorry for yourself when the company you or your spouse or your children work for moves overseas.

When is the last time you lost a job because it went overseas? Why do you bend over backward for the billionaire crowd? Why are you so beholden to the few? The fact is that jobs have been going overseas since DC passed all the loopholes possible to help companies go overseas, things like the huge tax breaks.

i agree janice needs to look for jobs in the US, there are plenty around but apparently janice is accustom to riches for nothing work.

DC42

On 10% flat tax:

10% on 30K.... $3000 may mean feeding this person's family

10% on $1 Million..... $100,000 may mean you can't afford that new Bentley

What the heck are you talking about? State governments and the Federal government take away more than 10% from us now.

Boatrash: If you google fair tax, there are about 48 million articles that come up...I'm sorry I haven't researched the one you are referring to!!! But, the one you are referring to from wikipedia proposes a 30% sales tax on goods and services..... once again widening the gap between rich and poor.... I know if I have to pay 30% tax on everything I buy, I'm going to be pissed along with every other American taxpayer!!!
From Wikipedia: The sales tax rate, as defined in the legislation, is 23 percent of the total payment including the tax ($23 of every $100 spent in total—calculated similar to income taxes). This would be equivalent to a 30 percent traditional U.S. sales tax ($23 on top of every $77 spent—$100 total).
A fair tax could be up for discussion, but to defend Halliburton?? Since, we're about googling things.... google KBR (a subsidiary of Halliburton) check out what they've done with their no-bid contracts.....Kill American soldiers through faulty electrical work!!! Oh yea, they were awarded another $35 million in December!!! On top of their $460 Million base contract!!

Mr. C:

I was being hypothetical to defend against a "fair tax"!!! I believe a "fair tax" will cause the extinction of the middle class!!! If you want to look at Boatrash's "fair tax" idea.... it proposes a 30% sales tax on everything we buy.... who in their right mind would want that??

VLH

Awww, poor little billionaires. I feel so sorry for them.

I feel their pain too! It's so painful that I'm laughing! It must be terrible for billionaires to pay taxes, damn, it's just plain unfair!

DC42- I am referring to the fair tax web site by Niel Boortz fairtax.org. Also not defending Haliburton just stating facts. Mrs.B posted they didn't employ U.S. citizens. In the oilfields Haliburton and Kellog,Brown and Root are household names.

FLAT TAX, CONGRESSIONAL TERM LIMITS, LINE ITEM VETO. Have a nice life.

Boattrash: The website you're referring to is the same plan that is described on wikipedia.... 30% sales tax!!

boattrash: your comment about halliburton:

They were given a no bid contract in the middle east because they were the only company at the time that had equipment already in place. They have been involved in servicing the oilfields in the middle east and the rest of the world for decades. They employ a large number of american citizens both domestic and overseas. In other countries by contract they have a certain percentage of local citizens that has to be employed. The operations in the U.S. only employ U.S. citizens or legaly documented workers. IS THAT YOU KKKARL?

DC42- No it's not, you have to read through the entire plan, if you want to base your decisions on whats on wikipedia thats up to you. When it comes to my money I would do a bit more research. If you are willing to keep a 7 million word tax code it is your choice, but it will always benifit those who write it. For those that can't afford a tax lawyer to decipher it you never knowed when you are being taken.

AMERICANA2- Just stating facts, I have worked in the oilfields for quite a while and know plenty of people that work for both Haliburton and KBR. They are no different than General Electric which makes a good deal of money in Iran and has close ties to the present administration. Just the same ole political bs, it happens on both sides of the aisle. Reference Murtha, Fienstien, ect... ect... All are career politicians just like the last bunch in charge. Term limits is one way of getting a handle on both parties.

FLAT TAX, CONGRESSIONAL TERM LIMITS, LINE ITEM VETO. Have a nice life.

boattrash: The plan is exactly the one that I was referring to on Wikipedia, Fair Tax Act (H.R. 25/ S. 296).

From Wikipedia: In recent years, a tax reform movement has formed behind the FairTax proposal. Increased support was created after talkshow host Neil Boortz and GA. congressman John Linder published The FairTax Book in 2005.....

Once again, 30% SALES TAX!!!! If you are willing to keep advocating this, then that's your choice!! But chances are, along with me, you are in the middle class......not for long if this passes..... Ever been to China???

DC42- All I am saying is read the plan, give it one hour, read the numbers for yourself. A half dozen sentences is not enough to give you a clear view of what the plan will do for the average taxpayer. The 30% number is not correct, it is 23% but there are provisions for the lower income brackets that will receive a rebate check monthly making their rate much lower. Right now when you add all the federal taxes we pay on gas, electricty, cigarettes (if you smoke), corporate taxes passed on to us by the corporations and list goes on, add that to the 28% or whatever your bracket is, we pay probably close to 35%+. If the new cap and trade passes we will be paying even more with that backdoor tax. Just give it a fair look without letting politics get in the way, it is about our money, not about politics. I don't know about you, but I have worked hard to get where I am at and the goverment keeps taking more and more. With the way the spending has been esculating for the past twenty years there is no way taxes will go any where but up for everyone. I just think we are due for a change in the tax code. I really believed a flat tax would be the way to go, but after reading the fair tax plan I see where it would be easier to implement. This my opinion if you don't believe this will work that is your choice, but the current system is not going to get better for anyone. It is not a republican or democrat thing, it's the politicians on both sides, neither side could care less for the average tax payer, we don't make enough to buy influence and that is what is for sale on both sides.

FLAT TAX, CONGRESSIONAL TERM LIMITS, LINE ITEM VETO. Have a nice life.

Well put!!! It's not about politics for me either, I'm not affiliated with either of the two main parties...... I mean, you're obviously right about one thing, and that is that the modern tax code is clearly deficient!!...However, I do believe that it's the only thing thats slowed the flow of money upward as of late, considering how much interest banks pay on large amounts of money!! I've got some research to do on the rebate checks, though!!

Everything I've read says this: The sales tax rate, as defined in the legislation, is 23 percent of the total payment including the tax ($23 of every $100 spent in total—calculated similar to income taxes). This would be equivalent to a 30 percent traditional U.S. sales tax ($23 on top of every $77 spent—$100 total)...........

This is where I got the 30% number from.... Is this correct or is there more to it??

you control the amount taxed by what you buy, if you control your spending you control your tax rate. You recieve your total gross pay, then you are taxed on your purchaces. To cover those below the average they recieve a rebate check monthly to reimburse for nessecities such as food and shelter. I can't remember all the figures, but it seemed reasonable to me. I f you purchase a new car the tax federal would be 23%. If you buy a used car there is no tax, because it is already been paid. It is to indepth for me to explain every aspect, but it eliminates the need for corporate,estate(death) tax. The figures show over they past thiry years how this would be a more stable revenue stream for the goverment than the present code. By eliminating corporate taxes that would put the U.S. on a very competitive footing in the global market, the jobs created would more than cover the lost tax revenue through the old corporate tax system. It is hard for me to explain, but the website has several explanations available from simple to very indepth, I am past the simple ones and still trying to get through the others, so far it seems to be worth taking a good look at. All I can say is give it a read it may change your mind.

Businesses like Google , GE, Hewlett Packard and others on the list provide hundreds of thousands of American jobs. They are optimizing their profits by all legal means just like every business would. If they are hit for an additional 1 Billion ( more in some cases) in taxes they will shed jobs, cut production and raise prices for their products. That sound good ? Why does the crowd shouting "Eat the Rich" not get that , small business and large corporations are the source of most of our jobs and by hitting them with more and more cost means fewer and fewer jobs?.

Funny how business was able to get along just fine before Regan created these tax loopholes.

Funny how business was able to get along just fine before Regan created these tax loopholes.

I seem to remember 21% interest and runaway inflation, during the '70's, just to be nostalgic.

FLAT TAX, CONGRESSIONAL TERM LIMITS, LINE ITEM VETO. Have a nice life.

Boattrash: I still have some reading to do, but I have to say that some of the things you described don't sound appealing to me. No corporate or estate tax.....corect me if I'm wrong but only about one percent of deaths in the U.S. result in people actually having to pay an estate tax.... The first $3.5 Million is tax exempt, once again I think this plan may stand to benefit that 1% elite class!! I'm also not a fan of lowering or getting rid of corporate taxes.... if corporations want to move jobs, let them move jobs just penalize the hell out them for it!! And 23% on a new car.....what would this do to our car companies that are already in trouble?? This would make owning a new car an absolute impossibility for many people!!

The estate tax has a real function. It is meant to keep all the wealth from accumulating into the hands of the few over time. It is a tax that Thomas Jefferson had advocated for because he knew, if there was no method of moving wealth out of the top segments of society, then the US would fall back into a tyranny of the aristocracy which is the exact system they fought against.

Screen: That is exactly my point!!.... The current system of estate taxes was employed in 2001 by you know who!!! This system eventually raised the amount of tax exempt funds that could be inherited to a per spouse exemption of $3.5 Million!! In 2010, this plan is set to expire reverting back to pre-Bush era of a $1 Million dollar per spouse exemption!! Although this may not last long because if my sources are correct, Obama is planning to go with a similar plan of the $3.5 Million and eventually doing away with the estate tax!!....I'm not a fan of this either!! In 2006, 0.7% of the deaths in the U.S. resulted in people actually having to pay an estate tax!!

How many times do you justify taxing the same money. You are taxed on your income, then again when you use the money to purchase energy in what ever form electricity, gas, heating oil. You are then taxed on other purchases of certain goods and services. Then if you are lucky enough to save and start a business or family farm, then you die and the goverment has there hand out again. Where does it end. The money people leave to their heirs was earned and taxed. I ask again how many times is fair to tax the same money? The money is already gathering at the top it's called our goverment, look at the nepotism that goes on with the reguard to our tax money. They take from people who earned it and give it to thier spouses, family, friends, or for campaign contributions through taxpayer sponsered contracts for BS. You are right all our wealth is gathering in one spot. The repeal of the corporate tax would do a great deal in getting jobs back to this country where they belong. It would also lower prices on products through the competition, because more people could afford to open manufactoring type businesses, we could actually compete with the countries that are killing us with thier lower labor rates. Just take a little while and read the plan. I do it no justice trying to paraphrase.

FLAT TAX, CONGRESSIONAL TERM LIMITS, LINE ITEM VETO. Have a nice life.

The plan does not call for cutting or scaling back any goverment assistance programs, it is just another way to provide the revenue steam that funds them. The system we have at this point is broken it is unfair to everybody, even to the rich. I have no problem with people getting wealthy and passing it on to thier families, as long as it is legal, if they worked for it more power to them. One example look at what former politicians are paid for a speaking engagement, $200,000+ you think this is for being a good speaker or just pay back. With the fair tax system it will take the "gaming the system" out of it. Both parties are guilty of this, under the fair tax system it will reduce one factor in influence peddling. If you think big oil is catered to through tax breaks, wait and watch General Electric among other "Green companies" with the present congress. It is the same game different players. This cap and trade looks like it could be one of the biggest scams so far. Watch who this enriches. This is going to continue until we change the system, the fair tax may not be the answer, but from what I have read so far it is looking alot better than the present tax code. No plan is going to be perfect at the start and adjustments will have to be made. Our current system is going from bad to worse. It is to easily manipulated.

FLAT TAX, CONGRESSIONAL TERM LIMITS, LINE ITEM VETO. Have a nice life.

Boattrash: I don't justify the taxing of money several times, but as I said above.... only 0.7% of deaths in the U.S. in 2006 actually resulted in people paying an estate tax and honestly if you're receiving an inheritance of more than $3.5 Million per spouse you've probably not had a real rough life nor had to work too awful hard!! And as I've said many times, I've still got research to do, but from what you've told me I'm very skeptical....I just believe the high rate of sales tax will burden a lot of the people in the lower classes.... although I will look into those rebate checks you had spoke of!!

Boattrash: I've enjoyed our debate, but after a little more reading, I don't think you're going to sell me on the fair tax!! It's still my belief it's going to hurt those in the middle class, which is the backbone of our economy!! Although, it doesn't sound too bad for the lower class, full rebate checks go to people up to the poverty line of about 27K, and half rebate checks go out to people making around 54K.... these people making 54K will still wind up paying 15% federal sales tax on things they buy.

I researched and found the discrepancy between 23 and 30%....... the 23% is a tax inclusive rate, which is not the way we calculate sales tax. Sales tax is calculated as tax exclusive....Meaning in my state we pay 8% sales tax and when we buy a $10 item we pay $10.80 and under the fair tax we would pay $13.00 for the $10 item, so if we equate it to the traditional system it is actually a 30% sales tax.

Another problem I have is that we would also have to add state sales tax on top of this rate. In my state 4 of the 8% is state and county tax so in reality, I would wind up paying 34% tax on things I buy!!!.....This is just not appealling to me and I still believe it stands to benefit the wealthier people!! I also believe that this would stand to hurt all businesses because of less spending. An extra 34% added on top of the price of items is going to make many things, even some everyday items unaffordable for some people.

boattrash,

ALL money is taxed multiple times. Every time there is a transaction in this country money is taxed. The sales tax I pay, the capital gains I pay, etc. Anything I make gets taxed and anything that I spend gets taxed.

The inheritance was taxed MAYBE one time when the person earned it. It is being transferred to a non-spouse (a child) who did not earn it, thus it is income to that person. The inheritor is the one who gets taxed.

It is a fantasy dreamed up by conservatives to think money should or is only taxed once except for this "unfair" estate tax.

The fact is still there.... it was created to guard against the creation of a permanent aristocracy in the US. It is only possible to have "the American dream" that conservatives love to tout if permanent aristocracy is kept from forming. This is a view of the founders of this country and if you have a problem with that, then I suggest you find yourself another country to live in.

You are already paying your state income and sales tax. Just federal at this time is 28% for me plus all the federal taxes on energy ect... puts that rate into the 30% to 40% range. Now add your state income and sales tax. This would lower federal taxes to a 23% sales tax. You have to put our current tax code out of your head, look at your check stub the gross is what you get. Go to the gas pump take the federal taxes off the top. The companies that produce our products would pay less for energy, allowing for lower prices, through competition, if they didn't lower the price it would now be affordable enough for a new company to take their place. I think it would work. Maybe the rebates for lower income will have to be adjusted, but no plan is perfect. I do no the current code only works for those that can afford tax lawyers to translate it. Right now our corprate rate is the second highest in the world and we are wondering why our jobs are are being offshored. We don't have a climate for growth in this country and it is going to get worse. With the increased growth this plan will generate we may be able to pay for universal healthcare or other social programs. Right now our taxes will have to go up in order to pay for these things. The estate tax is a small part of this plan, I don't think that is enough of a issue to control the debate on this plan. We need to try and not put labels on stuff. I could care less if it is conservative or liberal or whatever. It's our money thats it. I vote all over the board depending on who I think has my interests in mind, I do not tie myself to one side or the other.

FLAT TAX, CONGRESSIONAL TERM LIMITS, LINE ITEM VETO. Have a nice life.

You can't let the present tax code cloud your thinking when reading this plan. Prices we pay for things at this time reflect federal taxes. Corporations don't pay taxes they collect them, through us in the form of higher prices on goods and services. I had a hard time the first couple of times I read this plan, because I couldn't let go of the present tax code ad business model. Through natural competition the prices we pay today will not be the prices we would pay in the future, the whole business model would change. It levels the playing field, the corporations would either adapt or they would be put out of business by companies that do adapt. The plan actually puts money in play that is not presently in the system due to tax shelters, offshore accounts, various foundation schemes. Why do you think everybody and their brother from hollywood to wallstreet has a foundation? they are not that generous, it is a loophole, which this plan eliminates. The wealthy would no longer be able to hide money, every time they get their wallet out they would pay the tax. People not in the system drug dealers, organized crime, illegal immigrants, ect.. would pay every time they get their wallet out, no more hiding money. Anything we do will require a adjustment period. It is a hard concept to imagine, you have to totally let go of the present system, to see how this plan works. It took me a while to comprehend it, but the more I read and think about it the more sense it makes. In our present system tax deductions and loopholes are a commodity that politicians are selling at our expence, this is not a party thing it is accross the board no matter if they are republicans or democrats. It has to stop.

FLAT TAX, CONGRESSIONAL TERM LIMITS, LINE ITEM VETO. Have a nice life.

Boattrash: Those things you just mentioned are a lot of assumptions to be made, and I don't know if I could ever wrap my mind around them. Maybe they would happen, but possibly not, and if they didn't we would be in a world of hurt!! And, honestly I believe the people who wrote The FairTax Book used the 23% tax inclusive rate to mislead the public because that's not what we think of when we think of sales tax, we think of a tax exclusive rate!!

You never know, but the way capitol hill has been operating for the past thirty years we know the present system is not getting any better, to many career politicians, it does not matter who is in charge it's always the same game with different players. I think they have fixed the present tax code till it is broken. I don't think now there is any way of fixing it. Might as well scrap it and start over.

I agree, the current code is obviously deficient....just as you said the last thirty years have been horrendous!! We'll see though, maybe someone will come along who doesn't have an agenda and help us fix our current problem... maybe someone from a foreign country without ties to the big money here in the U.S.!!

I look foward to something, not sure what that is at this point, but we shall see. Have a good one.

Me too!! You have a good one as well!!

George Soros does not care. His corporations are not based in the U.S. so this gives him an even bigger competitive advantage over his U.S. based rivals.

Warren Buffet might be the better person to ask if he is excited about these changes since he lives here and his corporation is U.S. based.

Buffet's been pushing for tax code overhaul for years..so he may not be the posterchild you're hoping for.

No Buffet is the person I want to talk to. He understands economics better than most people. All I care about is economics. You liberals can take all of your social positions and stick them wherever you want. Same for republicans. I could care less if you want to marry your dog or want 18 wives. Just support them and stop complaining. You want 5 abortions - go for it. Hate abortions do not get one. Pretty simple really. Live your life and never complain to me about your social views as I could care less.

But you did miss my point. Soros does not care if we change the law. He is not a U.S. citizen so it will not affect him. Buffet is a U.S. citizen and his company is a U.S. corporation so he is affected by this change.

PDueth hooray for you, good comment

PDeuth

Fair is fair. If I have to pay my taxes, those who can better afford to pay their share can pay their share, too. If life as a super-rich is so onerous, just give it up and join the rest of us.

I like where you refer to the "onerousness" of being one of the super-rich! There are some former presidents like Reagan and George W who felt so sorry for the rich that they just couldn't do enough for them!!!!

They did. Now do you agree that the corporations should also?

They only did AFTER it was brought into light...

Otherwise they would not have.

davidc123

They only did AFTER it was brought into light...

Otherwise they would not have.

you don't know that.

Thank you President Obama, this is one of my biggest beef's.

Nearly two thirds of US companies PAY NO FEDERAL TAX

My question to you is.. if they all pay butt loads of taxes.. and they all shut down, layoff workers, raise prices on goods, or simply ship jobs to good old Mexico, China, India etc because taxes our lower.. will you then be "happy" at the outcome? You can then say "we made them pay our taxes" but made life crappier for Americans in the process. Is that worth it? Remember companies responsibility is to there shareholders and themselves.... I think this is one reason why ExxonMobile is buying back there stock in huge amounts and plans to go a private company soon.

IndependentVoter

Question: Why not just have his appointees pay their back taxes?

Answer: In the words of Leona Helmsley, ""We don't pay taxes only the little people pay taxes."

SR, there will always be people living in America, so there will always be someone here to sell products to them. The idea that all our business will suddenly fly away is absurd. Many companies already left the US or are employing foreign workers because of the cheap labor. Do you think if this legislation gets passed, they won't want to sell in America anymore? Its nuts!

If a company does business here, I think they should pay their fair share of taxes, because they are taking advantage of the secure marketplace, secure property rights, and legal protections not available in every country. Why don't they pay for it?

I think if a company does big business here, but the govt lets them off the tax hook if they take their $$ to another country, in effect, the govt is subsidizing companies to move elsewhere! Am I right?

So everyone is complaining about how these companies that move out of the country now to employ the cheapest labor and not have to worry about EPA or workers regulations should continue to pay nothing. They have a base office here that if closed down would amount to a truly stunning small amount of job loss. These corporations that play the game of hide the money and keep it oversees now would be hurt? I think not. It is time to close the loopholes as the taxes for these companies are filed full of them while the general working class person has little or no way to shield the government from their money. People who are not corporate heads should not be complaining about this ...go figure. You are so inundated with BS you don't even understand the laws in this country and are fooled into feeling bad for the billionaires.

Local governments provide police and fire protection through property and sales taxes. The federal government only provides grant funds for special projects.

just out of curiosity janice do you even know what percentage of the federal budget goes for grants and special projects?

Do you?

yes, do you?

These companies that are currently cheating the system are already laying people off, closing plants, and raising prices while still finding money to pay out billions in bonuses, executive salaries and benefits, and golden parachutes.

What is it with you conservative, right-wing whacko, Obama haters? If he didn't do anything about this, and allowed the corporations to continue to outsource US jobs to keep more money in their pockets y'all would be pissing and moaning about that too.

Also, what empirical evidence do any of you( janice22, Simplistic Reality) have to prove that hiking taxes for companies that outsource will result in the companies outsourcing even more jobs? Where has that happened in history?

I've never once had a business owner tell me that their hiring decisions were based upon the amount of taxes they pay. Hiring decisions are made according to how much business a particular company is doing at the time. Higher or lower taxes doesn't affect how much business is coming in the door. If a good or service is in demand, it's in demand and business is good, regardless of taxes.

I think you people just need to get over the fact that the American people have had enough of the way republican morons have run this country and want accountability from big business.

Right wingers are the most childish people on the planet. You people aren't satisfied unless there's something to complain about.

These companies that are currently cheating the system are already laying people off, closing plants, and raising prices while still finding money to pay out billions in bonuses, executive salaries and benefits, and golden parachutes.

So you'd like to see even MORE of that happening then whats going on now? Noted.

Also, what empirical evidence do any of you( janice22, Simplistic Reality) have to prove that hiking taxes for companies that outsource will result in the companies outsourcing even more jobs? Where has that happened in history?

Do a little reasearch and you'll see.. or see how peachy things are in the countries around the world who HAVE the highest tax rates on big buisness.

• High investment tax rates cause international investors to switch their investments to countries with more favorable tax regimes.
• High investment tax rates lower the expected return-on-investments on projects involving some risk as a company pays 100 percent of their losses (if they lose money), but only 80, 70, 60 etc. percent of their gains, since their profits are taxed. (Of course, issues such as gains from other projects, being able to carry over losses, etc. complicate matters). Because of this assymetry, a lot of worthwhile projects may not be undertaken if tax rates are too high.

Etc, etc, etc, etc.

I mean.. you would think it would be common sense. If your taxes went up even more... wouldn't your personal lifestyle change? Less money for investing in things.. buying things... you'd have to cut back on maybe some lifestyle choices... eating out.. or luxury items. Now apply to that to a large corporation... upping there taxes or in some cases imposing taxes on them... they are going to have to change "there lifestyle" to accomidate money they now have lost to taxes... and HOW do you think thats going to be implimented?... You see where this train of thought is going......

For instance.. my company is struggling financially because of all this. I've been laid off since November. 1/3rd of the force of 70,000 employees are laid off. The employees also had to take a 10 percent cut in pay... and have to pay more for medical etc.. or the company probably would tank. Now imagine adding MORE taxes on that. They'd probably go under and there goes 70k Teamster jobs down the drain.

Another thing for thought is most peoples retirement funds / mutual funds / 401k etc etc... involve owning stocks in these very same BIG CORPORATIONS that that you all want to tax more.. which might mean ultimatly.. lower returns on your investments... meaning your going to make less.. on your retirement account.. etc etc. So.. it hurts everyone.. not just "Joe Blow Billionaire" because.. hes going to be a millionaire regardless of the taxes. Its everyone below him.. that going to feel it one way or another. Just my thoughts.

For instance.. my company is struggling financially because of all this. I've been laid off since November. 1/3rd of the force of 70,000 employees are laid off.

How many people at the top of your company's food chain were let go?

For instance.. my company is struggling financially because of all this.

Because of all what? Nothing from this article has been implemented.

Your company has been losing money because of a terrible economy, not because Obama is proposing raising taxes on corporations and individuals who utilize overseas tax havens to maximize profits/return.

pete520 i agree to some extent but the company is failing because the big dogs want more piece of a pie. they got greedy and lived big while there workers barely made it.

another words bad management is what is getting these companies in trouble....plain and simple

Simplistic, see my response at comment #39.

SR, and others defending the status quo. Please keep in mind that if abc company feels that higher taxes would reduce their profit and ability to hire AMERICANS:

a. Many cos don't care if they hire americans or not, its business, they want to make a profit, and

b. COMPETITION. If these cos cry foul and close their doors, (assuming there is still demand) another company will open or expand to fill the gap.

If they can't stay profitable by hiring US workers AND not hiding from the tax man, maybe they're not so great business people anyway.

If regular folks can make difficult but ultimately wise business decisions that improve their personal economies without getting tax breaks, why do you expect less from big companies?

It is the small business that has been suffering more as they dont have the resources the international corporations have with their team of lawyers to push themselves into tax havens. It is time to level the playing field. Small businesses are the ones that hire more people in the US and consume more of the resources made here. Quit crying for the huge companies that are not helping the country and care for the small businesses.

I lost my last job when ITW moved 25% of our production capabilities, mostly, to China. Capital equipment - printing presses - were taken away from our facility and shipped to China. We lost 25% of our workforce within 4 months of that: this was 30 months ago, a full 18 months before the recession officially started. The weekend shift at that plant has recently been eliminated. They are down to 40% of the workforce today, compared to just before I lost my job.

I predicted, around three years ago, that if they local facility did not do something to improve quality and productivity, ITW would shut the plant down completely within 5 years. They are presently on pace to do that. My prediction, by the way, wasn't well-received, nor were my suggestions for quality and productivity improvements. They place was infested with sales people and full of cliques and cronies. CYA was always the order of the day. They deserve their failure; those they employ do not.

Sorry to hear about your situation, unfortunately, many companies are not well managed. But, one or even several does not provide and lessons to be learned.

Mark,

That sounds like good reading. Do you have a link for everyone ?

Oh my, Oh my, If only the mean mean liberals with leave the poor poor corporations alone. Surely they would expand, increase profit, hire more American workers at a fare wage, and all would be right with world.

Well, I'm citing a renouned Harvard professor as my source for contending that very thing. What is your source for your rant?

Here is the link

http://www.hbs.edu/research/pdf/09-107.pdf

Mark

I read the article you referenced and it's typical of the Harvard Business School and other snobbish institutes that have much to gain by playing up to the Free-Marketeers. The author's position at Harvard I'm sure is a secure one as someone like him can get a job as chief propagandist anywhere. Corporations love guys like that. It's not their standard of living that is suffering. People like the author are like the court jesters of old - they need to make their king happy.

I love nonsense from the so called study like:

Similarly, it appears that there is little systematic evidence to support the depiction of the relationship between foreign and domestic activity that naturally grows out of the arbitrage view - that foreign activity by multinational firms displaces domestic economic activity.

Obviously this jackass never had his job outsourced. I guess we're supposed to assume that the more jobs that go overseas, the more jobs are created here or at the very least nothing changes state side! I knew Timothy Leary was on stuff, I guess he's wasn't the only one. Statistics at the Bureau of Labor Statistics would disagree!

So, who else do we know that has a Harvard education, maybe the characterization is a good one after all.

Mark

So, who else do we know that has a Harvard education, maybe the characterization is a good one after all.

Well let's see, who went to Harvard Business School for an MBA? Oh yes, it was George W!

This is nonesense. I cite a renouned authority on the topic and you attach him not because you understand the topic but because you want to shelter your precious Obummer. Here is a quote from a recent news story.

"The United States is the last major economic power to tax the profits of locally headquartered companies if that income is earned abroad. Other nations, including most recently Japan and Britain, are moving to a territorial system that taxes only corporate profits earned within their borders. Instead of following that trend, Obama proposes to move in the opposite direction. "

Let's not worry about whether or not our U.S. companies can compete, lets tax them and worry about that later.

The real problem behind all this is the fact that the U.S. has outpaced other countries in development and improving the standard of living. Now that we have more of a global economy we are competing with those persons who are anxious to catch up and willing to work for lower wages because they have a lower standard of living. If U.S. companies do not make inexpensive goods by employing foreign labor some will not be able to compete in the world market.

So lets see how many of you are willing to put your $$ behind your words, how many of you buy only U.S. goods even though the price may be higher? I'll bet there are none of you that can say that you do and until that changes, we will have this situation.

Is that you rush? Go crawl back under your rock

Mark

This is nonesense. I cite a renouned authority on the topic and you attach him not because you understand the topic but because you want to shelter your precious Obummer.

There you go saying I'm trying to shelter Obama. On another topic on this site I was accused of being a bigot, racist and everything under the sun because I suggested the primary criteria for the next appointee to the Supreme Court should be based on the "horrible racist qualities" of scholarship, ability and integrity, not preferential treatment!

As you can cite a so called authority so can I. Institutions with money and power like Wall Street want to be left alone to make all the profit they can without any obligations to the country that shelters them. (Heaven forbid they should act like the aristocrats of old, you know Noblesse Oblige.) In this they use educational institutions as part of their attempt to brainwash Americans as in the eyes of many, educational institutions, especially the Ivy League, maintain an aura of legitimacy and ethics, which is primarily a facade in reality. Educational institutions are beholden to big money and would never bite the proverbial hand that feeds them, especially Ivy League institutions.

Do you remember when the big deal in economics was Milton Friedman and the Chicago school? Do you remember their preaching of a market that is free of regulation, free to make all the profit in the world with no real obligation to society? Now Friedman and the Chicago School are as they said, Look for it only in books, for it is no more than a dream remembered, a Civilization gone with the wind!

Mark

Now that we have more of a global economy we are competing with those persons who are anxious to catch up and willing to work for lower wages because they have a lower standard of living.

Oh come now Mark! They work for lower wages not because they are willing to but because they have no other choice! I mean what's their alternative, either work for poor wages or say go to Medical or Law School?

Yes we are competing with other nations but the competition is for the cheapest labor possible. Some competition isn't it? Do you remember reading some time ago that China warned those that outsourced to them that there was social unrest brewing? As a result they said they might need to raise wages, etc. Immediately American trade negotiators and corporate reps went to China and said in no uncertain terms that if wages, etc, were to rise, they just might not invest in Chinese labor anymore! You see, the poor have no recourse but to work in sweatshops to keep their Chinese and American masters in riches.

Mark

So lets see how many of you are willing to put your $$ behind your words, how many of you buy only U.S. goods even though the price may be higher?

I have no problem with that but just about everything I see in stores says "Made in China" or some such place! In fact I would pay more for items made here as they are almost always superior to Chinese junk.

Market's up 150 points so far today...

Mark

The real problem behind all this is the fact that the U.S. has outpaced other countries in development and improving the standard of living. Now that we have more of a global economy we are competing with those persons who are anxious to catch up and willing to work for lower wages because they have a lower standard of living. If U.S. companies do not make inexpensive goods by employing foreign labor some will not be able to compete in the world market.

You are looking short term in your description. A better and more far reaching explanation is that Capitalism is now spreading throughout the world as predicted by I think it was either Groucho or Karl Marx. As this occurs each nation will try to out do other nations in terms of profit. Here's the conundrum - Capitalism is based on continual expansion yet, both labor and resources are finite. In time the system will crash more and more. Most of the time the crash will be nastier than the last. Eventually the system will have reached its limit of expansion and the whole thing dies never to rise again from its ashes.

hg1234, there are already laws in most countries to prevent this kind of thing if they are inforced. Most countries have some kind of transfer pricing laws that dictate that one cannot transfer income or deductions between high and low tax rate jurisdictions. Unfortunately, some governments participate in such schemes and have actually developed it into in industry. What do you think U.S. States are doing when they offer tax incentives to businesses to locate plants or infrastructure in their State. Part of the problem is that our governments participate in this sort of thing.

I certainly believe that companies and people should be able to organize in ways that minimize their tax liability within the law (paraphrasing Judge Learned Hand), but these transfers that accomplish nothing but reducing taxes should not be permitted.

By the way, companies that defer paying U.S. tax on foreign earnings is not what I would call a loophole, the tax law is designed to function in that manner to make U.S. companies' foreign investment competitive with foreign companies. Many countries have the same kind of rules. Is the fact that you can deduct home mortgage interest a loophole?? But if Obama represented it as a provision to allow U.S. companies to be able to compete in foreign markets, how many people would support a change?

Mark,

Is the fact that you can deduct home mortgage interest a loophole??

Poor analogy, and not even close to being the same thing! We are paying property taxes, school tax, and a host of other taxes when you own property. Hiding money in countries where the U.S. can't touch it in order to avoid paying taxes is absolutely ridiculous, fraudulent, and soon to be illegal!

What do you think U.S. States are doing when they offer tax incentives to businesses to locate plants or infrastructure in their State.

And if foreign businesses place their plants here, they should still be subject to the taxes of their own country! We give them tax incentives because they create jobs for americans, and bring revenue to particular states.

Obama fan,

I try to type slowly so you can understand this time.

Corporations that are deferring US tax because they choose to leave the money in foreign countries are doing so legally, it is part of well accepted tax law.

I agreed that schemes that shift taxable income and deductions without any other purpose should not be permitted.

Do you actually think your governments attract businesses to employ you? No, the do it to increase the tax base.

Mark,

I'm trying to give you the benefit of the doubt that you are some what intelligent but with comments like "I try to type slowly so you can understand this time." I'm finding it extremely difficult!

as well as consider U.S. citizens who use tax havens in the Bahamas or Cayman Islands guilty of violating U.S. tax laws.

My previous comment was solely based on this portion of the article! Now you are right in that it is totally legal to keep profits earned overseas, overseas! But when you hide money in banks that you know will not cooperate with U.S. Tax agencies for the expressed purpose of defrauding the U.S. government you will have a problem! Got it! Good!

Now the other part of your comment that made little sense!

Do you actually think your governments attract businesses to employ you? No, the do it to increase the tax base.

Tell me! How do you increase the tax base without employing workers? Of course employing American's will increase the tax base! let me type slowly for you!

Foreign company comes to America. Foreign company employs Americas. Americans pay taxes, buy house, car, and spend money in general. Company get tax break, American gets job, Government gets tax revenue! Geez!!!

What government beleives it's in thier interest for it's citizens to be unemployed?

Obama fan

You did not mention you were only addressing 1/2 of the article and in fact you state you support Obama's proposal to tax companies on foreign earnings that remain invested in foreign countries, so how am I to know unless you are more specific? What gets me is to call what companies are doing a "loophole." My definition of a loophole is taking advantage of the tax law to accomplish a reduction in tax that goes beyond the intended purpose of the statute. So using loophole as a description of this activity is wrong at best and at worst lying to the public for political gain. What happened to all of the transparency Obama promised? Inaccurately describing something is just as bad as lying about it.

How do we know that people "hiding" money in foreign jurisdictions is such a problem, have you heard of thousands or even hundreds of people being convicted? It has always been unlawful to do so, now the government is going to say you are guilty unless proven innocent? Don't you have a problem with that. There are many people who have accounts in those areas for legitimate reasons and it is not their fault that a country's banking laws prevent the bank from disclosing information to IRS.

Companies that build factories or retail stores pay sales tax on the building materials. When the location is completed, they pay property tax. If it is a retail location like a shopping mall, it brings in huge amounts of sales tax and property tax while not employing all that many persons and the employment is not always incremental because some stores just move there. Yes, you also increase the tax base via employment, but that is beside my point which was that those governments care more about the increased tax base than they do about employing people or their citizens.

Mark:"Do you actually think your governments attract businesses to employ you? No, the do it to increase the tax base. "

Basically the same thing, but excellent point!

FLfunnyboy, that was my exact point. It has reached the point that government officials, especially at the local level, are willing to lie, cheat, and steal to increase their tax base so that they have more money to spend to fortify their power base. They really don't care about the people that live in their district. In my area there are several instances of where local governments are using the power of imminant domain to oust homeowners and smaller businesses so that they can build a shopping mall and an office tower so that they can increase the sales tax base and the property tax base. Most everyone that would work in the office tower would not even live in the municipality.

OBAMA-FAN,

And in post 22.1 below you accuse companies of hiding money overseas, so my comment above is appropriate after all.

Sounds exactly like the way the IRS treats me.

I have only had one time where I had to interact with the IRS and it turned out pretty positive.

That being said, my understanding is your experience is the norm. If it is the norm, why do we need the change in policy I wonder.

I was worried about that as well. It's a way to ease it into the mainstream, first the evil rich and corporations then on down to hate crimes defendants and eventually get rid of the whole troublesome innocent until proven guilty.

It's a bad bad idea and I hope somehow Congress doesn't allow a reversal of our justice system no matter how slick the administration tries to slide it by.

One is innocent until proven guilty, but under our tax law, deductions are a matter or legislative grace, so the burder of proof is on the taxpayer. If you prepare your taxes in a correct manner and have the documentation to back it up, then you have nothing whatsoever to fear of the IRS. There are some overzealous auditors out there, but if you have the proof, they have no teeth. If you are being treated unfairly, tell the agent you are going to call the taxpayer advocate. If that does not help, actually call the taxpayer advocate.

A new approach,

So if you make enough money, now you are to be considered guilty and you have to prove your innocence?

i know you can read! that is not even close to what is meant in the tax plan! If you are hiding money in offshore accounts to avoid paying U.S. taxes then you will be committing a crime! the only purpose there is to bank in a country that does not cooperate with U.S. tax agencies is to hide the revenue of business (legal or illegal) from the government!

Absolutely I can read...

It essentially would reverse a long-held assumption of innocence in U.S. courts.

Did you read something different because it is right up there still in the seed?

OBAMA-FAN,

The question is do you believe everything you read? Believe it or not, there are legitimate reasons to have accounts with at least some of those banks. Remember the all the articles about the Swiss bank that would not volunteer to give information to IRS? Apparently that particular bank offers lower minimum balance requirements that other banks and some other advantages that attract U.S. citizen's deposits. One such persons was using the account to hedge against U.S. dollar currency flucuations. Many other persons were expatriates working in the area that have accounts there because of the attractive features that the bank offers. I cannot speak to every bank and every depositor, but there certainly are legitimate reasons for having accounts with those banks.

The real issue is the the Swiss banking laws prevent the bank from disclosing the information. Do you want them to violate their countries laws to comply with IRS? Our government should be pressuring the Swiss government, not the individual depositors.

I am very informed thank you and know a considerable amount about the U.S. tax law.

I quoted from a news story in a post above the fact that the U.S. is one of the last countries to tax companies on world-wide income. All other countries tax on a territorial basis and only tax income earned within their borders. This results in tax neutrality concerning where a company locates its manufacturing and other facilities.

The real problem is that companies can locate in countries with less regulation and a supply for highly skilled low wage workers like India or China. Those costs drive the decision of where to locate much more so than the tax rates, although tax is more important in a few jurisdictions. Obummer is trying to offset the cost of business advantage that some other countries have with what would amount to a tax penalty for locating in those countries. I do not believe that will work because the difference is too large and all he will end up doing is driving some companies out of business our out of the U.S. altogether.

At least I have read that some prominent Dems that actually understand this are being cautious about jumping on board. Hopefully they will bring some common sense to this debate.

If you haven't yet figured out Obummer's strategy this is it; he has his socialist agenda which will cost billions. So he needs to find revenue to fund those programs and he is going after areas where he can manipulate the present and uninformed public opinion to raise billions of additional tax revenue to support his programs. He gives no care or consideration to the damage he does as he makes these changes as his programs are his top priority. Nothing like running as fast as you can with blinders on.

pj,

So you'd rather the corporations be able to hide their money while the government taxes yours? And technically it's not "more business taxes", it's forcing the companies who hide money overseas to avoid paying taxes to actually pay taxes on that money!

Obama-Fan,

I'm of the opinion that either way, I pay.

Are you aware of the fact that our government is now the largest employer in the country? Are you aware that, over the past 50 years - one lifetime - we've gone from giving up about 12% of our personal income to our government to nearly 50% today?

I'm no fan of tax cheats or frauds of any kind, but the outcome of this will bring us closer to a government that will soon consume all business and personal wealth in the U.S., in the name of taxes and regulations.

Plus, these businesses won't be hurt by this, the consumer will simply pay that much more for whatever that business has to offer.

pj,

can I have the links to those stats your threw out? Thanks.

I think this will bring us closer to a government that is in line with the thoughts of Americans. A couple months ago IBM Shipped 8k jobs overseas, but the sad part is, they actually fired americans to do so, and this is during a recession. Government will not consume businesses or personal wealth. It's obvious that these tax loopholes are what is wrong with "American" business!

Here are a few things to take a look at, OF,

http://ask.yahoo.com/20040802.html
http://federaljobs.net/
http://www.taxfoundation.org/research/show/1120.html
http://www.npr.org/news/specials/polls/taxes2003/
http://mwhodges.home.att.net/piechart.htm
http://www.sbsc.org/content/display.cfm?ID=774

The government grows its business to the detriment of the citizen, creating a bloated toad of bureaucracy that even they can't keep up with. That's why there is so much rampant fraud and corruption. With every tragedy and every new fear, there will soon be a government committee to deal with whatever it is. How many government institutions were created with the advent of the Iraq war, for example?

I'm all for everyone paying their fair share, but I think our tax program needs a complete overhaul in order to truly be fair to the people, who are being taxed to death, between income, in some cases city and state, sales, excise, property, sin, etc., taxes, as well as regulations that cost us all.

Just one person's view, Obama Fan.

The government grows its business to the detriment of the citizen, creating a bloated toad of bureaucracy that even they can't keep up with. That's why there is so much rampant fraud and corruption. With every tragedy and every new fear, there will soon be a government committee to deal with whatever it is. How many government institutions were created with the advent of the Iraq war, for example?

Thaat`s right!

I applaud you. And that's exactly what he's doing - creating a "smart government" - a "fair government". You haters had your chance in November. Hating now, is not going to change things. If you will notice, all the hate, bigotry, racism, inequality, extremism, etc., etc. is ALL coming out. You tried to hide it, but with a Black man being in the white house, it's a bit more than many of you can stand. That's okay - we expected it. I don't give a d — — — about the large corporations. They sure don't give a d — — — about me. However, from where I sit, there's always a recession or a depression. There are just some of us that know how to work through it.

Boycott the GREEDY bastards...