Too broke for the ER, patients flee

Right. Illegals get excellent medical care. How ignorant are you? If an illegal comes to a hospital with an injury, all he/she gets for free is stabilized. That's it. They get treated the same way a U.S. citizen without insurance gets treated - like crap.

Does anyone have any ideas about how to make the system work better? Or are you just going to complain about illegal immigration, which is not the subject of this article?

Here's how to make the system work better and cheaper

1. deny medical coverage to anyone who is not here legally.

a. illegals don't pay their bills and run up costs at hospitals.

b. illegals take up space in ER's for runny noses and sniffles.

2. eliminate lawsuits cash cow payouts.

a. lawyers are killing the medical system with ridiculous lawsuits and even more ridiculous payouts.

b. limit doctor liabilities, malpractice insurance is extremely expensive and adds to costs.

3. make health insurance mandatory just like car insurance.

a. almost eveyrone who doesn't have health insurance has a cell phone, cable tv, multiple cars.

b. make health insurance tax deductible.

Deport all illegals and fine any company that knowingly employs them.

It's easier to spout out blame.

In fact it's a lot easier to blame Mexicans, insurance companies, Democrats, Republicans, Obama, Bush, the Government, the free market, etc than it is to sit around and expect that our 535 honorable lobbyist-puppets in DC are gonna fix the problem.

It’s a shame that you people have made illegal aliens a red herring when it comes to just about anything. You name it and you hate filled people blame it on people who for the most part just want a better life.

The discussion about the illegals abusing the system is all well and fine, but it is more important to recognize that our health care system itself is in shambles and is an absolute disgrace.

"If you have money, you can have health care. If not, you can still have it if you want, but you will go bankrupt". That's the message.

Who is to blame? Greedy corporate fat-cat insurance companies, greedy big pharma and the practicianeres themselves oh and lets not forget about our greedy self-serving prostitute politicians who play golf with these guys.

Captain, Right on!!!

What will the motion picture and music business do when they can't drug a victim now and then?

Do you think that the corporate scum actually create?

EMTALA....a law - we cannot turn people away if they show up at the ER, and we CANNOT discuss costs. This is your federal government at work. Even when people show up at the ER because - they have a sore throat, they vomitted once, they twisted their ankle, they have a rash - they've had for 3 wks. Now the guy in this story did need to be seen. There are ways to get assistance if you need it. Why is it so expensive to go to the ER? Read the list of reasons why many people come and you will know. The ER's in this country are OVER BURDENED by people who don't need to be there. Just 2 weeks ago the Chicago ER's were overwhelmed by the "worried well" - they had a cough, so maybe it was swine flu. Even though they are told - only if you are VERY sick go to the ER, otherwise stay home. For those who don't have a Dr, there are walk in clinics - much MUCH cheaper than going to the ER.

There is a 3rd scenario. The patient receives all the care a non-profit hospital has to offer, incurs a bill for test/treatments/hospital stay, and recovers. Goes home, receives a bill, and puts it in file 13. The hospital writes it off, and raises the room rate/charges on people that do have insurance. Ask your local hospital what percentage of the amount they actually bill is recovered.

Well, last year we went to the Emergency room and ended up leaving too. We have insurance but the deductible would have cost us too much to get the CatScan they wanted to do. They said it was $2700 but we could go to our doctor and get a dr's order for one the same thing and the charge would be $700. This is due to all these people using the ER as their private medical services for free and the insurance companies are having to pick up the costs with the overcharges on insured patients.

Mexico has better health service anyway these days for a lot cheaper.

When our daughter went in with pnuemonia this year they tried to give her sedatives to take when she said she was leaving. The nurse came in with three pills and she asked what each was. She knows what they are and what they do - they tried to admit her against her will and she told them she was going home period.

84 hospitals are gone in california due to non payment of services and the doctors all say that the millions of illegals are causing the problem... why deny the facts when they are screaming in yoUR FACE.

Captain Marvelous

We spend over a $trillion a year on healthcare. Providing free care to illegals is a tiny fraction of that.

Some states have set caps on medical malpractice awards. Nothing has happened to med-mal insurance premiums in those states. Why? Because you can't constitutionally cap the award of medical expenses and lost wages. All you can cap is pain & suffering, disfigurement, and the like - they're called non-economic damages. They make up a very small portion of the total money awarded in med-mal claims. Hence, limiting them has had a negligible impact on med-mal insurance.

Ridiculous lawsuits? Name one. Lawyers who do that get sanctioned and pay heavy fines.

"make health insurance mandatory just like car insurance."

Brilliant. The government says "if you buy a car you have to have insurance." If you don't have insurance, you can't register your car, so it's pointless t get one - you'll get fined if they pull you over. How would that work with health insurance, exactly? Over 26% of all single-parent households live below the poverty line. How are those people supposed to spend $10k+ a year to get health insurance? What do you propose we do with them if they refuse (and opt to eat instead)? Cell phone + cable does not equal health insurance. Not even close.

Our justice system has awarded people in law suits enormous amounts of money and some not for a very good reason.  If a doctor gets sued the hospital automatically get sued if the patient was in the hospital.  Therefore malpractice rates for physicians and hospitals are thru the roof....also Medicare and Medical Assistance pay only cents on the dollar.

Many uninsured (Americans) go to the ER because they have no other access to a doctor. If I (who has insurance) was concerned about having the Swine Flu, I'd call my primary and come in for a visit. Why would I go to the ER? But those without insurance have no other options. Think of the cumulative savings in healthcare if these people just had access to a primary.

They should do what the illegal immigrants do. Give a false name and address and phone number, carry no ID, and then just stiff them for the bill.

Typical hospital emergency room visit cost = $3,000-$5,000. Actual cost to patient $0.

It works great for them, and they get free medical care.

But this only works in a hospital emergency room, because federal law prohibits hospitals from refusing treatment, regardless of ability to pay.

Why did it take the global recession for the doctors, pharmectical companies,and insurance agencies to decided to ct cost and show concern for the expense of medical care? In my opinion, the only reason why there is concern is because it is the middle and upper-middle classes thhat are being affected this time. The working poor have been unable for years to afford healt care! Now, there is concern about cost??? Spare me!

This should have been achieved about 40 years ago.

we're going to have to revolt in order to get single payer healthcare. the politicians are far too crooked to serve the people, particularly when the banks and health insurance companies are footing the bills for their lavish lifestyles.

Sue-322113

Do you have any info to back-up any of your statements? Find me a big medical malpractice award that was given out for no good reason. The biggest I've seen recently are for babies born with severe birth-defects because the doctor screwed up royally.

"If a doctor gets sued the hospital automatically get sued if the patient was in the hospital."

Absolutely. Shouldn't the hospital be responsible for the actions of its doctors? Would you go to a hospital whose doctors routinely screwed up? The fact is that hospitals try to avoid this liability by having the doctors be "independent contractors." Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.

Malpractice rates are through the roof because the insurance companies are robbing the doctors and hospitals blind. That's why more and more hospitals are self-insuring and doctors are also getting into alternative insurance plans. As with healthcare, generally, the costs of medical malpractice insurance are the result of greedy insurance companies. Not the patients, not the lawyers...the insurance companies.

Something new please

"make health insurance mandatory just like car insurance."

I'd like to start a company to insure against getting hit by a meteoite, and my premiums will be ridiculously high. Can we require that everybody buy my insurance too?

The real answer is a single payer system like Canada to cut out the 50% of costs that the insurance companies bleed from the system.

I suppose you're volunteering for the latter. Right, Puck?

I don't have a solution, just a question?

Why are there two prices on medical treatment?

If I have insurance, a medical procedure will cost as little as half of the cost, than if I don't have insurance.

If I incur a large bill from a hospital stay, the hospital will settle for approximately half.

For these scenarios to exist, and for the medical facilities to be able to cut these bills almost in half, there has to be excess profit taking going on.

The medical profession needs to get it's act together before Washington steps in, but it won't. Because we all know when government gets involved, it gets worse and more expensive. The medical profession has gone overboard with testing because of lazy or incompetent staff, which have driven medical costs up significantly.

SuzyQ

Must you make every issue an avenue for expressing your hate for the illegal immigrants? This is not the time nor place for that subject. Get a life. Unbelievable!

Agree that this should have been on the table long time ago, "about 40 years ago." I hope the Republicans and the lobbyst will not jam this up (13-15 years ago), and more importantly that we will not allow them to jam this up this time around.

I had a cat bite that got infected. It was looked at by a MD. I was given a tetnus shot and prescription for antibiotics. Bill to my insurance 5K.

Here in Yakima half the residents are illegal which is amazingly the same amount that get goverment services. Which include Medical. If they have a baby they'll actually have the MD to write a presription for diapers and the local medical suppy shop will fill it.

All you peole that insist people are just "hating" on illegals need to wake up to the reality of what illegals are doing to our hospitals. The reason that honest citizens are leaving hospitals for fear of an insanely high hospital bill, is because the cost the hospitals are absorbing from illegals taking advantage, ussing false ID, and having no intension of paying their bills, is being passed on to the rest of us. Many hospitals around the country are looking at shutting down due to the millions and millions in unpaid services to the poor, needy, illegals that just want "a better life".

Just a question. He was in a bike accident, why would he need blood tests?I can understand x-rays, etc., but why the blood tests??

it is sooo spooky that the USA is like this. It scares me if I get sick. U should watch "Sicko" from Micheal Moore. That movie will scare the poo out of u!!

harborside appraisal

The practice of which you speak allows the hospitals/medical-offices to take bogus write-offs and reduce their tax liability. You should see what Medicare/Medicaid pays - it's even less than the HMOs.

Actually. Disease don't have to mutate. The illegal just have to bring in disease we thought we eradicated Like TB and Polio. They don't immunize in 3rd world countries. I'm an ER Nurse and caught TB 15 yrs ago. I was sick for a week with a temp closed to 104. I test positive for the skin prick TB test, so once a year I have to get a chest film.

This moron refused medical treatment for a possible head injury because he didn't want to get stuck for "a $5,000 bill"? He probably runs that up on his credit card for traveling, meals and cool gadgets without giving it a second thought.

I was in the ER last year for 8 hours and my bill was $7,000.00. Enough said.

Positive, your accident, your injury, your responsibility. That's why we have insurance.

Guarantee the GOP will jam this up like they did with Clinton. Think about all the huge contributions the RNC gets from Insurance, HMOs and Pharmaceticals. They would be the losers. MDs would win. Malpractice is rare in countries with national healthcare since the problem created would be covered by the healthcare.

Sort of like the Dems jam up tort reform to protect their trial lawyer constituency. Everyone has their hand in somebody's pocket.

what's next? pushing for Universal Dental Insurance?!?!?

i had a dental abscess that could have become meningitis and had to pay 3000 for a root canal and some fix up work. i paid the money gladly over 6 months. people pay all kinds of money for different necessetites to dentist, lawyers etc. why the hell is it that if it's medical and to a doctor, they think it should be free or covered by some one else. medical care is not a right.

One of the biggest problems with health insurance is people don't use it as insurance. Do you use you car insurance when you get an oil change, new brakes or new tires? Of course not. If you did, auto insurance premiums would be through the roof. So why do people think their health insurance should cover a checkup, prescription drugs, or a visit to the doctor for a runny nose? Ordinary health care costs should be paid out of pocket and insurance should be for the big stuff that could bankrupt you. I pay $389/month for a high deductible family plan with Aetna. The "catch" is my deductible is $6,000 ($3,000 per person). If something major happens to me I can handle a $3,000 bill but I'm not bankrupted and I'm not paying a $1,000 month in premiums. EVERYONE SHOULD LOOK INTO HEALTH SAVING ACCOUNTS!!!

KDEA:

our health care system itself is in shambles and is an absolute disgrace.

"If you have money, you can have health care. If not, you can still have it if you want, but you will go bankrupt". That's the message.

Who is to blame? Greedy corporate fat-cat insurance companies, greedy big pharma and the practicianeres themselves oh and lets not forget about our greedy self-serving prostitute politicians who play golf with these guys.

Thank you for pointing out where the blame actually rests. The corporate fatcats and politicians are experts at creating class warfar to deflect blame away from themselves and onto basically powerless groups like illegal immigrants and poor people.

I am not taking a stand here in support of illegal immigration. I am saying that the prevailing situation with the abysmal failure we call our health care system exists only because those in power, and those who exert their influence on those in power, permit it to exist. They are to blame.

westbury64

You're comparing the money from the trial lawyer lobby to the money from the insurance lobby? The insurance money is multiples bigger. Also, tort reform has been done in several jurisdictions (notably, California) and it has not produced lower costs. Most judgments consist primarily of economic damages which would be unconstitutional to limit. You can't keep people from recovering medical expenses and lost wages. If a doctor screws up in a way that leaves his patient a quadriplegic, the lifetime medical bills (and lost wages) will add up to millions. That's where the numbers come from. I agree that non-economic damages should be capped nation-wide, but that won't do much to this country's healthcare costs.

Don't you people realize it's our fault for getting sick or hurt to begin with?

Seriously though, I have to literally be dying to go to the emergency room or the doctor. And I have insurance.

Doctors are like politicians, some are actually trying to help, but the majority are only in it for the Porsche. So the good ones get so disgusted they take a job mopping floors, while the "medico politico" play the game with no regard for the patient.

I can't really say I blame them, frivilous lawsuits and RIDICULOUS malpractice premiums can turn the most caring individual into a money grubbing, morally inept worm.

I don't know what the answer is, but I'm sure it doesn't involve nationalizing health care. All that will do is turn a rapidly dwindling, profitable medical profession, into a "how many can I push through the door in one day" , farce!

sherri2012

I think it can't be said enough that all of our politicians get government healthcare, and they love it. Everyone in America should have healthcare as good as Congress gets.

SusyQ

Sad to say that you are ABSOLUTELY correct on this. It is of course something you don't want to do but it is equally sad that it would work.

Sorry MSNBC collapsed your comment even though it wasn't offensive.

I don't understand how the hospital can refuse to tell a patient the cost of treatment...every other company is required to tell you what you need to pay before you receive a service! Can you imagine going to a restaurant and ordering food, and the waiter refusing to let you know how much it costs, until you receive an exorbanant bill? And by that time, you've already eaten the food, so you must pay the bill. Except in this situation, it's not something as optional as eating out - it's potentially live-saving treatment.

I hope this article opens the eyes of a lot of people who are still in denial about the broken state of our health care system. We pride ourselves on being the best country in the world, yet people are forced to run out of hospitals and refuse treatment based on cost? Come on! In terms of health care, we're a third-world country.

The only way to get this resolved is to put Congress on a half ass medical insurance plan like the rest of the masses.

When the powers that be are denied coverage for an existing condition, have a new condition that needs a treatment the insurance companies decide to be "experimental or not proven effective" or have to pay thousands out of pocket a month for meds they'll decide the system is broken. So long as they don't experience the problems they won't worry about fixing it.

While I am not fully on board with Nationalization of health care, the argument against it of not having beauracrats making my health care decisions is invalid. If you have "health insurance" beauracrats are making the decisions; not gov't beauracrats but profit beauracrats who are watching the bottom line, not your best interests.

We applied for new health insurance today (changed jobs) Aetna wanted our bank informaton, routing and account numbers, before they would provide a final quote or qualify coverage. Tell me, do I trust them??

They wouldn't have to run out if they had insurance, but they would rather spend their money on other things. Gotta impress the neighbors and co-workers and health insurance premiums aren't cool. How many of these people with no health insurance have big car payments, multiple credit card bills for TVs, computers, etc., boats or snowmobiles, etc.

How about driving a used car, keeping the old TV and eating at home so you can afford insurance. Oh, I forgot, have to live beyond our means to impress people.

I don't care what kind of "insurance" it is, the concept of having a valuable service in time of need, has long since been replaced by an utterly criminal enterprise!

So....lets look at the health insurance reform stakeholders....1) food manufacturers, 2) FDA, 3) pharmaceutical companies, 4) phisicians, 5) health insurers 6) media, 7) corporate/government,....I am not going to add the recipient because it is not about you.....it is about the extinction of the American people.

For decades, the food industry has been successful in destroying the health of the American people unchallenged by corporate/government oversight.......the FDA, EPA, AG Dept......etc. And the treatment for disease caused by malnutrition is provided by our pharmaceutical companies in the form of a little pilll developed to appease you but not heal you, while ignoring your complaints of fatal side effects.

The pharmaceutical companies......making money on your demise.....and the physicians charged to save you from destruction no longer need to update their skills and education....they satisfy their extended education by being brainwashed by the pharmaceutical industry....yea the ones that are making a fortune on your suffering.

The health insurers, also controlled by the pharmaceutical companies, execute the distribution of fraud and abuse while satisfying their share holders... the anonomous people who share responsibility for perpetrating this nightmare.

The media....making billions from their collusion with pharmaceutical and food companies normalizing disease and lying to you about the negative effects of drugs, food , and consumer items marketed to you.

And our corportate/government can't get their head aroud the truth....

This article reflect the terrible shape of our health care...How is it possible that in our great country, with the best and most advance medicine in the whole world...we, the citizens, have to choose between health care of becoming broke...WHAT A SHAME!!!Health Care Reform must happen and soon.

westbury64: Not all people are without health insurance because they're spendthrifts. What about those of us who are in school, and going to class is our 'full time job'? I don't have a car, don't have a TV, use a prepaid cell phone, don't have an iPod, don't have any fancy gadgets.

That said, many people who cannot afford health insurance are working full time, but cannot make the monthly payment. Health insurance is ridiculously expensive if you buy it independently and don't get it through employee benefits. Please do not assume that many of us without insurance are simply wasting our money. Sometimes it truly is beyond our means.

westbury64

You ask an interesting question. Do you know how many? Don't assume. Ask. I know a number of people without health insurance that have none of those things. In fact, none of the uninsured people I know have any of them, with the possible exception of a car payment (on a used car) that they need to get to work. You need to get the image of the "welfare queen" out of your head. I'm sure there are a number of people making bad decisions out there. And nobody likes the idea of bailing them out. But can't you see that there are also a great many that just don't have the money?

Captain Marvelous,

You must be an M.D., you are so dumb. Lawsuits for malpractice are necessary because Docs make so many mistakes and bad decisions. Doctors kill patients every day. I'm not saying murder, but the patient is dead nonetheless. The dead can't sue. Those who survive malpractice if they are smart will sue. I was prescribed a drug, Ziprasidone, based on mistaken diagnosis. I have been having seizures and other terrible side effects for a year after discontinuing the drug. I have seen 30 doctors and 3 neurologists - no diagnosis. I mention Geodon at each examination and the Docs fall silent - word does not appear on chart. I recently did some research and found the likely cause of my condition:

Damagae to the D2 Dopamine receptor in the Substantia Nigra of Basal Ganglia.

BTW, I left the hospital AMA.

Pfizer is the richest drug company in America. They "convinced" FDA to withhold "black box" warning label after substantial evidence Geodon side effects tardive diskenesia, neuroleptic malignant syndrome, heart attacks (changes Q-T interval), and increased suicide risk. I am in contact with hundreds of people who suffered similar siide effects as me. DAMN RIGHT WE'LL SUE! I can't help but believe some Docs are complicit in drug pushing and cover ups.

Do not trust doctors or hospitals! These AMA runners had it right! BTW, Flesh Eating Bacteria infests many hospital ventilation systems. That's just my two cents.

GOZO

You hit the nail on the head. The Hippocratic oath is now the hypocrical oath. I read patient websites regarding various drugs. They are all bad. The whole system is corrupted, and Americans are dying.

Something, since when do "welfare queens" have big car payments, laptop computers and/or boats and snowmobiles?

so what? all they have to do is say they're unemployed and/or homeless and the taxpayers will pay for it all. even people with jobs are walking away from hospital bills, which the rest of us end up paying for, I see it several times a day at work.

here is my solution-

A medical Debit/Credit card. Every person with a social security number gets one. The card works like a savings account when you are not using it. Rather than your employer paying insurance on you he deposits an amount into your account. If you need any medical care you can use the card. Which is debited the amount of the care. The patient has access to his account so he knows exactly how much is billed. if the card gets below zero the balance is a negative amount.

If the balance is below zero any amount debited is paid by the government and up to 10 percent of the employees/patients pay is taken until the balance is zero again. This will prevent patients from running up unnecessary charges because they will be responsible for the bill although it will not bankrupt them so they wont be discouraged from returning to work. Upon death 1/2 the positive balance would pass on to family while the other half of the positive balance will go to the government. If the account is negative the government eats the loss.

This program would be a lot less expensive than Nationalized healthcare yet it would preserve our current hospital system and actually improve it because the hospitals would save a ton of time and money on billing. The system may actually pay for itself as younger healthier people grow larger accounts that can sustain the future medical bills.

Brad O'Neill: That's a wonderful idea. Unfortunately, it would never be used because there's no possibility for profit. Insurance companies are profit-driven, thus why they won't give people with pre-existing conditions an insurance plan. They give insurance based on the assumption that you are going to pay more than you use.

It's sad, but health insurance and prescriptions are profit-driven and that is the unfortunate truth. Your idea is a fair and logical one: people pay only what they use, and the government gets half of a deceased person's 'surplus' to make up for the cost they eat from 'accounts' that were negative. It's very well-thought out and a plan I would be willing to try out, but those who make profit would balk.

The doctor on duty dismissed Ashlock’s questions about cost, telling him she was “a physician, not an accountant,” he said.

Because of the high cost of medical care this patient and many like him will take their chances. It's not broke... I can walk... I can think a little... it just hurts and I can take the pain. The greater pain is money and the total problem with medical costs and high premiums for medical insurance is money! The physician works for the system and does not know what the costs are going to be. If they are independent contractors they have their own practice and their accountant takes care of the billing after receiving the report of services rendered. It's a huge machine that chews many up and spits them out. So it is... people feel like numbers! (and American citizens are held accountable while others "that shouldn't be here" are not on the register)

Oh for the days when "Doc" came to your home bedside and helped you! They are over.... but need to be revived!

The insurance companies, the lawyers, and the government have helped to drive health care costs through the ceiling.

Doesn't sound bad Brad, but you're forgetting one minor detail.

You'd still have the "amount of the care" subjected to a host of variables.

"There's more than one way to skin a cat" ( and no, that wasn't intended to be taken as a sadistic fetish, for all the PETA people out there waiting for a chance to jump in)

Bottom line, crooks/politicians will find a way to blow holes in any governmentally assisted program.

Brad O'Neill

Your model seems to provide for no insurer at all. Who decides how much the procedures cost? In a perfect world, the doctors would be forced to compete with each other on price, pushing the prices down. Someone above made reference to the fact that when you receive a "this is not a bill" letter from your insurance company after a procedure, you see that the amount billed is far more than the amount approved by your insurance company. With no middle-man, they'll hit you for the whole thing and your coverage will run out fast. Also, what do you when you're out of work? Or if your employer doesn't pay squat?

Brad O'Neil,

What's the difference between your proposal and the current system?

If I get in a bad accident that costs $100,000 to treat and rehab, then I'm still $100,000 in debt for medical care. It doesn't matter if it's on my credit card or a government-issued credit card--I'm still responsible for paying the full amount, just like a person who doesn't have insurance.

The purpose of insurance is to spread out risk--everybody pays into a common pool, and if a catastrophe happens to somebody, it is paid for out of the pool, so no single person is at risk of financial ruin.

What you're proposing is to just have everybody pay for all of their health care costs out-of-pocket, end of story.

While I think there is value in having some costs paid out-of-pocket (to keep people from abusing the system, and to keep deductables low), there is still the risk of catastrophic illness/injury that most people cannot by themselves afford to pay.

Just a thought here but why do we not begin with eliminating all of the special interest lobbys in Washington and make any of the meetings public record, including all of the monies spend and on whom for what reasons? The special interest groups are what is destroying this country. Trial lawyers lobbies, medical group lobbies, insurance group lobbies, pharmaceutical lobbies and so on.

Somehwere in the miidle is the answer and nobody is willing to give up anything in their basket to allow others access to medical care. The fact that states are not allowed to negotiate directly with pharmaceutical companies for better pricing, medical insurance groups are not allowed to compete across state lines so pricing competition is next to nothing. All of the cards are stacked against the consumers and against the employers that are trying to offer the best possible insurance to obtain the best possible employes without going out of business.

I believe the government does need to get involved with health care to drive regulations that will even the playing field, but for the federal government to take it over, definately not. Make our health insurance premiums tax deductible, make a portion of our medical costs tax deductible, make certain items 100% tax deductible for insurance companies as write offs like preventative measures in an attempt to reduce escalated costs due to lack of attention until the case is an emergency instead of some sniffles.

Not everything has to be turned over to the feds, but that does not mean that they need to be hands off. The illegal immigration issue is pertinent to the medical costs, but not because of the status of the immigrants but instead becasue of the costs that the hospitals have to absorb and since they can not recover those costs pass them onto those that do pay. It is the same as shoplifting. If a store has a shoplifting epidemic they either absorb the costs and go out of business or they pass the losses onto other consumers.

Look folks trying to piss down one anothers back is not going to answer anything. We need to get away from the back room dealings and we need to stop the lobbyists from making politicians very wealthy through their dealings. We need to engineer a program that will put the control of healthcare back into the hands of those that it affects directly: the physician and the patient. Any other's involved are only parasites. Any others are only leeching off a system trying to make money from someone elses misfortunes and holding this country hostage by keeping healthcare away from those that need it.

If we were to pull back Congress' health insurance and make them go out and find it on their own like so many Americans have to on a daily basis we would have answers in no time.

westbury64 not everybody has insurance you moorone. if a person could afford insurance great then goto the doctors and use the insurance but i haven't been to a doctor for 14 years just because i could not afford to go thats what happens when you don't have insurance.

Brad O'neill,

I like that you actually presented a theory / solution instead of simply pointing fingers at people and demographic groups in general. As a middle of the road person, something must be done but the idea of a nationalized (socialized) system is scary. Federal oversight can be good and arguably necessary, so long as it doesn't get into actually running the healthcare. The only snag I can see is if the card becomes like the social security system with the money there on paper, but dipped into (factored into other accounting areas) to make the other budgets appear balanced.

Proctologist, I couldn't have said it any better! Thank you because usually I am the one ranting about lobbyists destroying our country. LOBBYING IS BRIBERY.

By all means this is not a complaint, but a view on what I see happening. People will walk out of the emergency room because they are unable to pay the cost to help them get better. Now that is what a doctor does and gets paid for it, just like any other job. What you will see is doctors seeing more people that have insurance and telling them they need a procedure, such as surgury. Case in point. I had an MRI for my shoulder because I thought I may have torn my rotator cup working out at the gym. I had it done, went to an orthopedic doctor and he said, "It's torn and you will need surgury. You also have a sput on your shoulder blade I will remove also." "I said, okay, when?"

He said to call and schedule it with his secretary. I waited a week and my shoulder seemed to feel better. I went to another orthopedic doctor with the MRI films. He looked over the film very close and told me. "You don't have any tears, but you did strain the muscle. You will need some physical therapy to make it work as it should." Now here you see how, if you take a doctor's word, you will either pay and need it, or pay and not need it. Just because a doctor tells you you need surgery, doesn't mean you do. It does mean he or she is looking for a definite payment for their income. So, in closing, as I stated. If people walk out refusing further medical help, you will see doctors recouping their income from those that have insurance, even though they don't need the procedure they are scheduled to get. Just my opinion as I was a victim of one doctor.

Thank you for the responses and criticisms.

First of all I realize my system would be subject to fraud just like Medicare, medicaid, and regular insurance. The biggest problem with a government funded healthcare plan is their is no one to insure the fraud does not exist except the government and we all know how good they are at combating fraud.

The part of my plan that addresses this is the fact that we would all have our own accounts and a negative balance would adversely affect us although only in a minor way. People do not like having to pay any extra out of pocket so this would insure that people don't just allow a doctor to fraudulantly bill them. In systems like Medicare people don't notice when a doctor charges or dont care when a doctor charges for services that they never recieve because the doctor bills medicare directly. In my system every bill comes out of an account in the patients name so they are more likely to see it and report fraud. (yes there are cases where the elderly will still be used because they won't be technically savy enough or aware enough to stop the fraud)

As for the No insurer part of the plan. That is absolutely correct. The only way to keep costs down is for the patients to pressure the hospitals and doctors. Right now the reason the Insurance companies have so much leverage is because they are the ones paying. It is a game of escalating fees and special discounts as insurance companies and hospitals fight a never ending battle of shifting expenses. I believe if the hospitals and doctors had a guarantee pay system like mine they would be able to bring down costs significantly. The system would greatly reward them at first but soon hospitals would begin to compete against eachother and the costs for the patients would come down. Patients would benefit because more hospitals would pop up persuing profits. The free market would actually work unlike now where it is only a few wealthy payers and a monopoly type system.

Carl W-

The big difference between my system and the current system is that the money is made available to the hospital right away. And that the individual is protected by losing no more than 10 percent of his income to an illness or injury no matter how catastrophic. I was just putting out a number it could be debated but what is essential is I don't want people destroyed by medical bills. The amount of money and time saved by the hospitals and doctors would be tremendous and the ease of mind on the patient would also be helpful. Yes losing ten percent of your income indefinetly would be terrible but it would not ruin your life.

In the event of a catastrophic illness you would still be able to recieve all the necessary care. you would just have a tremendous negative balance on your card that would in effect end up costing you 10 percent of what ever you made for the rest of your life or until your debt is paid off. But you recieve the best treatment you can find. You have the best possible chance of survival. The catastrophic insurance is essentially being provided by the government.

If people dont have jobs we are paying for them anyway. If they ever get jobs great we collect 10 percent of their pay if they never get a job they beat the system and get free medical. I don't know many people that want to live with no income for their whole life. But there are some and under my system they would come out ahead.

Another possability would be that any negative balance is treated like any other debt upon your death. It has to be paid off out of the proceeds of your estate. This might encourage a new kind of wealth insurance that would pay off your medical bills in the event of your death so that your heirs could still inherit your stuff. This would probably be a fairly inexpensive policy if it could be started while people are still young and building their accounts up.

There would need to be provisions in my plan to take care of current medicare patients it wouldn't be fair to saddle them with huge negative balances that would swallow their estates. Maybe an exemption from the estate confiscation for all people over 60 years old when the bill passes. And then a graduated system for people from 60-35. so someone who is 59 has 95% of their estate protected and someone who is 35 at the start date of the plan has 5% of their estate protected.

Sorry. That's a "spur" on my shoulder.

Proctologist

While I agree with you, generally, some lobbyists are ok - the ones not representing big business (i.e. not trying to buy Senators/Congressmen). However, you may be right in that the only solution is to throw the baby out with the bathwater. You know the system has gone off the deep end when recently bailed out banks that have untenable balance sheets still have millions to spend on lobbying. Something has to be done about this.

Something New Please -- You are ignorant.

If an illegal is admitted to the hospital they get all the treatment they need for as long as it takes. And it doesn't have to be a dire emergency to get admitted, you know that.

And, yes, illegal aliens are a part of this issue -- who do you think is driving up ER costs by going to the ER for every cold and sniffle, but sneaking their sick relatives into the country and taking them to ERs for free treatment?

I have an idea to help this situation -- deport all illegal aliens.

Brad O'Neill

A few thoughts. First off, the government actually does a better job of scoping out healthcare fraud than private insurers do. Doctors and dentists go to jail all the time for Medicare fraud. The only reason they don't catch more is they're understaffed. Add more bodies to the problem and you'll see more arrests.

As to your healthcare system (from #1.71), I noticed what I think is a significant flaw. Currently, health insurers negotiate prices with doctors and everyone with that insurance pays the negotiated price. Thus, my doctor doesn't care if he's seeing me or Bill Gates, he gets the same compensation for the office visit. However, if you make the system more free-market, the best doctors will jack their rates. They won't care because the rich folks will still have the money to pay them. The rest of us will be left to go to only those doctors we can afford. If you think there's disparity in healthcare now, your system will make it worse. Imagine needing rotator cuff surgery, and the best orthopedic surgeons are charging ungodly sums. All you can afford is some dolt who graduated next-to-last in his class from a third-rate med school in the Caribbean. I'm exaggerating, of course, but you get the point - a system that focuses on market forces will inevitably lead second-class service to all but the wealthiest. Hence the suggestion to take free-market forces out of healthcare as much as possible rather than injecting more of them in.

Anonymous-348035

Thank you. I always appreciate a good insult. It makes one's point that much more convincing, no?

Illegals do not get "all the treatment they need for as long as it takes." If they come in with a broken hand, they get an x-ray, a cast, and a script, and then they get sent on their merry way. When I broke my hand, I got a temporary cast, then I went for a follow up to a hand specialist who gave me a far more comfortable cast. Then there were several follow up visits to insure the bone was setting properly. Finally, a visit that said the bone was healed and the cast can be removed. Illegals get none of this.

I don't doubt that illegals make up a portion of ER costs in America. Nobody is disputing that. The arguments above in favor of broad healthcare reform speak of the fact that healthcare costs are associated with many factors. Considering that no major party candidate has advocated kicking out all the illegals (Pat Buchanan, not withstanding), you're fighting a losing battle anyway. Let's instead focus on what changes can be made to make the system better and cheaper. I repeat, we will always have illegal aliens. Deal with it.

Something New Please- The best doctors in the world deserve to be paid better. Under universal healthcare they will either move to some carribean Island where the rich can fly to see them. Or they will become depressed from a system that does not reward their talent and it will affect their level of care.

Do you think under Universal healthcare you will get to automatically go see the best doctor in the country? Right now you are free to go to the cleveland clinic or Mayo or one of several other great hospitals that may or may not survive a Universal system. yes they are expensive but they are worth every penny. A lot of the new treatments they develop trickle down to the rest of us in very short order. The current free market system is extremely efficient but if we go National healthcare I would like to see as much of the free market preserved as possible.

Something New Please- The best doctors in the world deserve to be paid better. Under universal healthcare they will either move to some carribean Island where the rich can fly to see them. Or they will become depressed from a system that does not reward their talent and it will affect their level of care.

Do you think under Universal healthcare you will get to automatically go see the best doctor in the country? Right now you are free to go to the cleveland clinic or Mayo or one of several other great hospitals that may or may not survive a Universal system. yes they are expensive but they are worth every penny. A lot of the new treatments they develop trickle down to the rest of us in very short order. The current free market system is extremely efficient but if we go National healthcare I would like to see as much of the free market preserved as possible.

Brad O'Neill

The best doctors in the world ARE paid better and would continue to be paid better under a single-payer system. Not because they'd get to charge more, but because more people would go to see them. I'm not concerned about surgeons who make $600-800k that might make a $100-200k less under a single-payer system. If they want to move to the Caribbean (they won't), let them. Most doctors would stay right here and probably make just as much as they do now. Doctors in Holland and Sweeden do ok.

I do NOT think, nor would I expect, that under a single-payer system that I would get to see the best doctor in the country. As is the case presently, the insurance wouldn't fly me anywhere unless there was nobody in the area that did what I needed. But I would continue to have access to the best doctors in my city, as I do now with Blue Cross, only it would be cheaper to me and my employer.

The argument goes like this: the government can realize certain cost-savings simply by taking the system private. Let's assume that the government will be less efficient to some quantifiable degree in managing the nation's healthcare payment than the private insurers are, currently. We can also assume that the government health insurance will not have a CEO that makes eight-figures, nor will it have a bevy of underlings that also draw six or seven figure salaries. Then you also take out the profit currently made by the private health insurers. Then you take all the money that healthcare providers spend billing the various insurance companies (there will still be a number, but it will be greatly reduced under a single-payer system). You look at the total cost savings and you weigh it against the inevitable inefficiency. If it's greater, you go with the the government-run single-payer system. If not, you look for a different solution. What you don't do is keep things the way they are.

First, I apologize for not reading all the posts, but wanted to respond, so sorry if this is a duplicate of other opinions.

1. It is not necessarily the large legal awards but the number of times sued, even if small judgements were awarded. In many cases the insurance company settles even if the MD feels he did nothing wrong, to avoid a lengthy suit. and yes, everyone gets dragged in and settles, which is what the lawyers for the patient count on. Then the insurance company cancels the policy or raises the rates and everyone's costs increase.

2. Much of testing ordered in the ED is CYA so the physician does not have to explain to a lawyer why he did not order that test. For the one case in thousands that turns out to be really something, everyone gets tested, even with low probability.

3. In some states due to EMTALA, the ED staff are unaware of who has insurance or who may need to have a discussion regarding level of risk and if the test is needed. Drs are not allowed to ask so they order the "routine" tests on everyone to CYA

4. Prices are not tied to anything that makes sense. There are some insurance carriers that pay by percent of price so the price is high to get enough from them to cover the costs for that test as well as those who cannot/do not pay. For medicare and medicaid, hospitals are paid a percent of costs which means they lose money on each. Insurance makes up the difference. Those who are "self pay" are often given the same discount as insurance since that is in effect, the "real" price.

5. Patients need to speak up regardless of method of payment and find out if these test are really needed or CYA. That will reduce costs for everyone and open a dialogue for those that cannot afford it.

I don't have any better answers but perhaps this will help explain some stuff from a frustrated EX hospital manager.

You can only abuse a system that leaves itself open for abuse.

Fix the holes in the existing Health Care system and maybe, just maybe, we can all enjoy better health care - illegal or not!

Doctors abuse the system more than any illegal does. They over-bill, bill for treatments never incurred and keep the cost of medical care so high that they are even putting themselves out of business. It's a shambles and shameless!

Isn't capitolism great.For all you ardent supporters of this very corrupt system. A little lesson in what socialism really is. Socialism is insurance.Just like any insurance policy we hold.We all pay into a mutual account and draw on that account when in need.So your all already socialists to that degree.The difference in free market"socialism" is the management level of the company is allowed to invest and speculate with a good portion of those funds and often times losing part of your premiums subsequently passing those losses on to the insured.Also these management level employees are paid hefty salaries with big bonuses from the pot your paying into.And finally because of the flexibility of these free market institutions they can and do manipulate the costs of whatever the commodity is they're providing ie: radiology,medications general healthcare etc.etc. in order to inflate the cost of and extract as much money from the insured all with as little in return as possible.All with complete government complicity.These are nothing more than white collar mobsters "managing" your healthcare with a gun to your head.All the while waving a big stars and stripes in your face and saying this is the American way!!!

The reason there are "two" or more prices is because of insurance. Dr. A or Lab A or Health system A wants to be able to take pts who have Insurance B. So insurance B says ok, we will contract with you for this amount, so the Dr, Lab or Health system negotiates for a price. Then when you go to that particular entity, even it their bill is $95, if the insurance has contracted for $40, then that is what it is. That is how that works.

It is my belief that a single payer government run system will breakdown very quickly and kill innovation in the medical field. Government tends to overemphasise what has been proven to work and often ends up stifling innovation. A prime example of government managed care is England stopping stage 5 cancer treatments because the drugs are too expensive and the government is not seeing enough tangible results. In our system current system you can recieve these stage 5 drugs and the doctors will continue to build on progress that is made. So even though patients today may only gain a few days life out of the drugs innovations are still possible that will build on the findings and may eventually lead to a cure or a more significant positive health effect.

Insurance companies and HMO's have definetly slowed progress on innovations. One example was a company a few years ago invented a medication delivery system(a shot) That the needle retracted back into the device after medication was administered. This greatly reduced the chance of accidently pricks and spreading disease. Even though the system could be developed and sold for the same amount of money as a current Needle the hmo's and hospitals had contracts to purchase the proven delivery system. Insurance companies and hospitals are afraid of anything new because of liability so the hospitals ended up sticking with the current system.

The new system may still get tried and used in a few clinics and will probably eventually replace the current system. But the beuaracracy in place slows the change. Under a government system it would be even slower.

Another problem with a government system is many brilliant doctors do their best work when they only have to see a few patients and can spend their time toying with stuff. Many great innovations come out of a doctors free time. Laser Eye surgery is one development that happened because a doctor had the time and resources to experiment with a device that would never occur under a government system. Or the Da Vinci Machine, or countless other innovations that improve surgery save lives and benefit humanity in general.

One huge problem with Government healthcare is that all decisions will be made through Lobbyists. Companies will attempt to get their products categorized as the official treatment for stuff. So drug companies will lobby to treat simptom a with product B. Etc. The government will make the decisions on what it pays for and how much so eventually Lobbyists will be the deciding factor in what the official treatment will become.

sorry for double posts

Not that many will die to affect the population density...and in the article it said the hospital visit "could cost $5000"...right--try $15,000.

This is why we need some form of affordable health insurance for the unemployed.

This story clearly shows the problem of todays healthcare. Doctor was right that she is a doctor and not an accountant. She cares about whether she is paid, hospital is paid and everyother provider is paid. When the patient is telling upfront that he cannot afford the todays costly "Insurance Billed" charges. What is wrong? Did doctor and other provider tell the patient that they will charge a total of $2000 rather than unknow charges. This could be anything May be even $10,000.

Every provider is concerned if they get paid their share, they don't care about the patient. Soon the patient will get a bill for $10,000, within2-3 months this bill would be sent to a collection agency, the hospital will be willing to share 50% discount with the collection agency but not with the patient. THIS IS THE HEATHCARE ?HEATH INSURANCE problem?

WE NEED HEALTHCARE/TREATMENT and NOT HEALTH INSURANCE? probably treaments will cost 40-50% of the provider billing amounts.

If all providers agree to take just 10% discounts from their service bills, very soon you will have healthcare cost lot more affordable with any insurance overheads and bill CEO's royal salaries and bonuses. If hospital charge 10%, doctors charge 10% to hospitals and insurances, 10% is reduced from drug cos.-- you can see that net reduction to everyone will be 5% or less. But patients savings shall be more than 50%.

The other approach would be to make and pursue any billing frauds on behalf of all providers be made into a criminal offense and punishable with severe punishments.

It is seed for the thought. Think about it and post your comments and solutions.

Something new please:

I think it can't be said enough that all of our politicians get government healthcare, and they love it. Everyone in America should have healthcare as good as Congress gets.

TOTALLY agree.

And by the way, isn't that government healthcare they get Socialism in action?

Oh, I forgot...it's only Socialism if it benefits the poor or the ordinary. If it's a perk for the privileged, well, that's different.

As a nurse and former administrator of two ERs, I have concerns that at least some ER physicians concerned about their own legal liability, order tests and procedures to 'rule out' the worst case. This escalates the cost for everyone, given that a higher percent of ER patients are uninsured or underinsured. As long as more than necessary tests are ordered, patients are in the position of deciding how many tests are enough...or which ones are unwarranted.

There needs to be more open discussion between doctors and patients about risks and benefits that also take into account the costs...no longer is it acceptable for MDs to claim ignorance about the cost of procedures and medications they order.

Sherri,

What Congress recieves is not a "perk for the priveleged", it is a health care program that is provided just like any other employer provides for employees. Biggest difference is that we as employees can not vote ourselves raises or additional benefits.

People in Congress are not the priveleged (even though you have to have a bankroll that would show that you are) but instead they are spoiled and have no idea what is is like for the guy that sees his kids getting sick and cant afford the meds because rent is due and the cupboards are bare. When Congress has felt that way then they can tell us they understand what we are going through or up against, until then they need to stiopplaying friggin politics with our healthcare and get off their dead partisan asses and do something the fix the system!

Absolutely. Prevention and early treatment beats the alternatives every time. The first step to fixing this problem is admitting that our current system doesn't work.

Obama's plan doesn't either. He wants to cut our services to the point that there would be very little preventative medicine.

I have a Family Medical book which tells pretty much what you can do for most everything and a lot of people run to doctors for colds which are viral and antibiotics don't do anything for them. Was told long ago by a doctor that any doctor who gives you antibiotics for a cold is stealing from you. Good old orange juice is the best cure.

Last, I know that kind of situation except if you need the antibiotics, they may give you too-low of a dosage and they expect you to come back to spend more money for more low dosage antibiotics (Note: I will say that sometimes the low dose is needed, but not always. Family history and research into the antibiotics should be looked into before taking measures to increase/decrease dosages)

I had a friend who had to take some antibiotics for some infection that she had in her jaw. Well, the doctor gave her 10 pills for 10 days (1 a day). Now, I forget how many milligrams or whatever measurement amount was for 1 pill, but it was low. Her aunt, who was a nurse, told her to double the amount of pills for a day (2 instead of taking 1). The reasoning:

1. The low dosage for this kind of antibiotic would slowly work on the infection. Doubling up on the dose would make the dosage stronger (obviously) and fight off the infection quicker. Of course, she put her niece's weight, age, etc. into consideration. Note: DO NOT DOUBLE PILLS/MEDICATION UNLESS YOU DO SOME RESEARCH ON THEM ALONG WITH SIDE EFFECTS, ETC.!!!!

2. Cost. If she had been taking the 10 pills for 10 days, she would have needed to go in to buy more antibiotics, which meant spending over $100.00 again, because the infection would not be gone.

She doubled up and by the fifth day: no infection. 5 days later, went back to the doctor and the doctor was ready to prescribe another 10 pills. Boy, he was shocked that the infection was gone so soon.

Last

I agree with you that people over-use doctors. And I believe that a healthcare system that doesn't force people to consider costs will exacerbate this behavior. All I'm saying is that the current system is broken - it's inefficient, it's costly, and it's often ineffective. Let's think about what a better system would look like. You don't like Obama's plan? Fine. Give a better one. Or improve his. What I don't want to hear is, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it." It's broke (in both senses of the word).

Now where did you get the information that President Obama want's to cut services so that there would be very little preventative medicine?

I am afraid that nationalizing healthcare will be a disaster...the government cannot run anything well.

Sue-322113

Maybe you're right. How have the HMO's done thus far?

Just let the old folks die, then we can take care of everyone including the illegals, and the rest of the countries that have failed national insurance (socialized medicine)

Sue,

You are right, let's abolish the government and have a everybody for themselves society.

Casey knows he/she needs medical care but just would prefer not to pay for it. Once it's "free", which means the taxpayers are paying for it, then she has no problem going for treatment.

the whole premise of this article is revolting!!

what's next? pushing for Universal Dental Insurance?!?!?

i had a dental abscess that could have become meningitis and had to pay 3000 for a root canal and some fix up work. i paid the money gladly over 6 months. people pay all kinds of money for different necessetites to dentist, lawyers etc. why the hell is it that if it's medical and to a doctor, they think it should be free or covered by some one else. medical care is not a right.

Amen, vinemann

it's gone ridiculous. this guy in the story would prabably have no problem blowing 500 bucks on a weekend or paying 1500 bucks going to Cancun for spring break, but wants his medical care free!

where did people get this idea that medical care should be free. they have no problem seeing their dentist, accountant, or lawyer and paying 1000s. but to pay their family doctor 50 dollars for a visit because of a cold, oh, that has to be free!!!

vinemann

Currently, you are correct in that medical care is not a right. However, there are some, including me, that think it should be.

"where did people get this idea that medical care should be free. they have no problem seeing their dentist, accountant, or lawyer and paying 1000s. but to pay their family doctor 50 dollars for a visit because of a cold, oh, that has to be free!!!"

The people who have dentists, accountants, and lawyers are not who we're talking about. They see doctors and pay. We're talking about those that don't have money. I have insurance, go to the doctor, and pay for it. However, there are those that are less fortunate than me. In my opinion, they deserve medical care to.

medical care is not a right

What does that mean?

I am sitting in my office, across the street from a "free health care clinic" which I am not allowed to go to, not that I would. I see it frequented by people driving escalades, hummers, bmw's, mercedies, all of which are pretty late model vehicles, which I can not afford. Take a wild guess which ethnic people are driving these vehicles and using this clinic.

Yet I am paying for this, so please do not tell me they are not a part of the problem, the fraud of the welfare system is rampant

I am so sick of people saying the system is broken so I cant go to the doctor. You people are freaking pathetic. If there is one thing you should spend your money on its your treatment. If you choose not to go to the doctor because you would rather keep your house, or your car, or your cable its your own freaking fault. Not the systems. Yes medical care is expensive but it is your responsibility not the governments, not some charities, not your mom and dads, Its yours take the responsibility if you want to live and quit being a freaking mooch.

calm down brad, you don't want to blow a vein in your brain. It would cost you.

If I do I wont get it fixed I would rather have cable tv!

This is a very interesting topic because there are those that "think it should be free" and those that think "it should not be free" I would ask anyone to tell me what is free in this world, other than air. Even that will be a charge one day. I'm not so sure Obama isn't working on that now. Anyway, "free" doesn't put money in anyone's pocket for a service they rendered. If you were a doctor, would you treat people free of charge? No one like to work for free. This country is so screwed up, and the administration is digging a deeper hole. There will always be the people that want something for nothing, then there are the people that work for a living. They are called "Providers"

And Brad O'Neill. The systems are broken, because there are people using the system that do not in any way deserve it. Welfare, food stamps and unemployment. I have seen it all as I worked for the government undercovering such abuse. I saw it happen over and over and the government did nothing about it, which tells me they don't really care. so, you ranting is unfounded. There is abuse in all the systems because in this country people will constantly look for a free handout.

skipster56

I agree that "free" is not the appropriate term. The argument is between those that think every individual should bare the cost of healthcare on their own, versus those that think society should bear the cost, cumulatively - kind of like we do with roads, schools, etc. You will recall that schooling was once a solely private endeavor. Then we decided that a minimum amount of schooling is a right. Many disagreed with that assertion then on the same grounds that people are disagreeing with considering healthcare a "right" now - they didn't want to pay for others. But the times they did 'a change, and we now have public schools. If healthcare is nationalized, you'll see the same debates you now see with schools. Namely, the rich will have better public healthcare than the poor. But at least everyone will have a minimum level of access, and you won't have to lose your house before the government steps in. No matter the system, there will be ups and downs.

I just got back from the Hospital. Now my legs don't work and I can barely speak. I showed the Doc my info on Ziprasidone, Dopamine, Basal Ganglia, and loss of motor control. The Doc witnessed two full blown seizures. Another genius Doctor was unable to offer a diagnosis or treatment. That makes four. Emergency rooms are for pregnant women and gunshot wounds. Good people, avoid ER if at all possible. Staffed by the lowest caliber of "Doctor" - most are interns. If you can afford it, go to a private doctor, the level of care will be much higher. As for me, I will fight through my illness until another portion of my brain takes over from the damaged portion. No choice.

I am sitting in my office, across the street from a "free health care clinic" which I am not allowed to go to, not that I would. I see it frequented by people driving escalades, hummers, bmw's, mercedies, all of which are pretty late model vehicles, which I can not afford. Take a wild guess which ethnic people are driving these vehicles and using this clinic.

I'm guessing doctors. Not really an ethnicity but the most likely answer. You can't go to the free clinic? I've never heard of one that would turn you away, most will take your insurance. You wouldn't like it though, it can take weeks to schedule an appointment.

Common sense-370048

It’s a shame that you people have made illegal aliens a red herring when it comes to just about anything. You name it and you hate filled people blame it on people who for the most part just want a better life.

What part of illegal do you not understand? If they are here illegally they shouldn't have a right to ANYTHING but leaving. They are criminals. They want compassion come legally or shocking thought..... fix the problems in their own countries instead of screwing up ours. In California 3 million illegal aliens cost the state 13 billion dollars a year between medical care, welfare, and schooling their children mind you this year the state is headed for bankruptcy being 26 billion in the hole. That means a solid half of their deficit is money caring for people who are not even legally here!!!!! This doesn't include when the get in an accident driving and they are uninsured so guess who gets the bill for that?

You think them coming illegally is okay? Think of it this way, it's like I enter your home bringing my whole family against your will, you say leave and we refuse too, we eat your food, take money from you to pay our medical bills, have you pay for my kids education, when we have a car accident you are the one paying for it because after all I'm uninsured. You can not make us leave by any means because using your philosophy it's perfectly fine for us to do all of that and you would be evil and wrong for kicking us out.

Come legally, I'll help you all I can. Come illegally I'll happily drag you kicking and screaming back across the border.

I had to take my son to the ER while I was vacationing in the Cayman Islands. They have evil, socialized medicine. The ER visit cost me $150 with no insurance. Recently, I had to go to the ER myself, here in the U.S., with Blue Cross. The ER visit cost me $250 (I have a deductible). Maybe there's something to socialized medicine after all?

Mike-1001306

You're absolutely right about the difference between the two countries. "Socialized medicine" can mean different things. I don't want the government owning the hospitals, like they do in England. However, I wouldn't mind a single-payer insurance system. I'm open to all ideas other than "do nothing."

Yep...Took an ambulance to the ER couple months back...Didn't want to drive for fear I would indanger others....10 mile ride cost 1700.00....1 hour in ER to tell me I had Pneumonia, cost 3500.00.....Antibiotic script cost 80.00...GIVE ME A BREAK!!!

the Whole premise of this article is ridiculous.

what's next? pushing for Universal Dental care?!?!? free lawyers???

i had a dental abscess that could have become meningitis and had to pay 3000 for a root canal and some fix up work. i paid the money gladly over 6 months. people pay all kinds of money for different necessitates to dentist, lawyers, accountants etc. why the hell is it that if it's medical and to a doctor, they think it should be free or covered by some one else. medical care is not a right. if you are worried, dish out 100 bucks a month and purchase medical insurance, instead of blowing the money on booze, or a fancy vacation. stop saying medical care should be free.

Hey where can i get a good $100 a month health insurance policy? I am 52, take medication for high cholesteral and that's it. No surgery, no illness....but looking for health insurance for myself - after 4 declines, I did get an offer for a great (sarcasm) 75/25 - if hospitalized, they pay 75% and I pay the other 25% - with a $1000.00 annual deduction...was only going to cost $479 a month! Isn't that fantastic? Now if I would just stop all the going out (never), partying, traveling, shopping, going to movies, and what's the other thing? Oh yeah $$$ on booze that I never spend since I rarely drink....

A friend of mine fell down a flight of stairs at a restaurant...had a broken wrist, 3 fractured ribs, torn knee tendon and when she landed at the bottom of the stairs, several grand mal seizures...they called an ambulance...

Bill: ER Visit and tests: $8800.00

Ambulance: $675

Medication and Follow up: $2900

Now isn't this great? She worked full time, had crappy employer offered insurance (that she paid about $150 a month for) and then lost her license for 6 months due to the seizures...guess what - lost her job then too since she drove all day. Her portion of all the bills - not including the surgery she had to get on her wrist - was just shy of $6000.00

This is a perfect system - you are so right - just the lazy hand-out liberals wanting something for nothing.

I don't want free anything - I want a government plan that competes with the big insurance plans that is the same as Congress has now and YES I will pay for it as I predict most people will. This is why the insurance companies don't want this to pass. It will cut in to their huge profits.

Just in case you don't know. That is a claim the restaurant would be required to pay. She wouldn't have to pay anything.

skipster56

Only if the slip was the restaurant's fault. If she simply wasn't watching where she was going, she's on her own.

janice-376027 wrote - " Bill: ER Visit and tests: $8800.00 , Ambulance: $675 , Medication and Follow up: $2900 "

Now isn't this great? She worked full time, had crappy employer offered insurance (that she paid about $150 a month for) "

At $150/month, she would need about seven years to cover only that bill. People indeed are asking for nearly free health insurance. It's free to them if someone else pays a much greater share or never has an accident in a lifetime.

The American health system is saddled with costs from people that have lived too long and paid too little. In the long run, this can only be worked out by asking people to pay way more or expect much less.

Mike,

ER doesn't have heart surgeon or brain surgeon on staff. Believe me, I have been there often enough. The actual Hospital may offer specialized medicine, but it takes big moolah, and in the meantime you have to lay in ER until the relevant doctor is available. In ER they mostly take blood pressure, urine sample, blood sample, and observation by a "Doctor" still in Med School.

Where have you been going to the ER? ER's are all staffed by attending physicians, many of whom are board certified. The reason that not all attendings are board certified is that EM is a relatively new field in the world of medicine. Perhaps you should be seeing your primary care doctor who knows your full medical history rather than an ER doctor who is really there to evaluate, treat and dispo emergenies.

I haven't seen the interview of which you speak. But I can tell you what happens in that instance - they ruin your credit. The hospitals have credit agencies working for them, just like any other business. When that woman tries to buy a car or a house and has to pay 14-18% on the loan, she'll wonder if maybe it wouldn't have been cheaper to just pay the hospital bill.

the Whole premise of this article is ridiculous.

what's next? pushing for Universal Dental care?!?!? free lawyers???

i had a dental abscess that could have become meningitis and had to pay 3000 for a root canal and some fix up work. i paid the money gladly over 6 months. people pay all kinds of money for different necessitates to dentist, lawyers, accountants etc. why the hell is it that if it's medical and to a doctor, they think it should be free or covered by some one else. medical care is not a right. if you are worried, dish out 100 bucks a month and purchase medical insurance, instead of blowing the money on booze, or a fancy vacation. stop saying medical care should be free.

Exactly Chris! This article states: Dr. Sara L. Laskey, who works in the emergency department of MetroHealth Medical Center in Cleveland, Ohio. “They’re really making conscious decisions about what they do and don’t want done.” Well NO SH*T! It's called personal responsibility and what every patient or person seeking medical care should do in any situation whether an emergency or not. In case you haven't realized it, citizens, and ESPECIALLY those with terminal or life threatening diseases have GOT to bear the brunt of researching all options for treatment. Do you all realize how hard it is to get into someplace like the Mayo Clinic?! Doctors don't just say "Gee, I'm not sure what you've got, let me get you to the Mayo Clinic". You have to push and push and read up and research on your own behalf to get the medical attention you need. On the other hand, when you're in the hospital, you should not be forced to take a pill from any staffer that is already one you have a prescription for, or even an aspirin, because they will charge you blind. The reason? Because we have the best medical system in the world with the best care, but we pay for it because it's taken advantage of, by yes, illegals, lawyers, and greedy insurance companies. Nationalized healthcare is NOT the answer unless you want to go in to have a bunyon removed and then wake up without a couple of toes (on the opposite foot!). You want someone to tell you who your doctor should be?! I sure as heck don't. It should be a very personal relationship and one that takes years to build trust.

As far as healthcare for everyone, I agree with a previous poster: READ UP AND LEARN ABOUT HEALTH SAVINGS ACCOUNTS (HSAs). It's about as close to a retirement savings plan you can get and the benefits of remaining healthy are that you get all your money back! What better incentive is there than that? If everyone switched to HSAs today or selected that as their option as a young adult, we would see the healthcare cost problems vastly improve. It's such a simple concept and one the insurance companies are very much in favor of. So why aren't we hearing more about them? Because of corporate greed, ambulance chasers, and those in favor of keeping the illegals fully vested in our healthcare system - free of charge.

Liz,

"Universal Health Care"? Less medical schools, less doctors, government has your medical records, computer hackers into your medical records (remember Virginia last week). Less qualified people going into medicine. More overworked medical staffs. Even longer waits for treatment. Less research. Rationed care..........

How about "Universal Legal Care". Do you think the neolib democrat lawyer politicians in Congress would pass that? Yea, right!

Actually I have had excellent experience in getting a specialist to work with me when I did not have insutance but desperately needed medical care. Since I was a cash customer she charged me only half the normal fee for an office visit. (Insurance companies routinely require providers to write down their fees anyway) She prescribed inexpensive drugs where possible and when that wasn't possible she gave me free samples. Tests were ordered sparingly to make certain of nothing life-threatening or bigger issues. And when I scheduled an office visit, I was scheduled to see the doctor, not the PA, to ensure my case was handled specially. This went on for almost a year until the condition cleared.

I have nothing but compliments for the medical professionals trapped in a difficult situation. If you explain your situation many will do what they can to help you, with payment plans, alternate ideas and methods. Attitude and approach are important though. If you came to get well and then are confrontational, or expect them to do everything for you without some responsibilty of your own... You don't work for free, why should they?

Just like the housing and the banking situation....cash patient are also paying for welfare patients and patients who do not pay at all.....that is why the cost is so high. The physicians and nursed are highly skilled people who have huge education loans to pay back and they need to make decent money....they are there because they want to make a difference but they have to be paid also. Most of the ER physicians are contracted so they do not get benefits, so they have to pay their own taxes, malpractice insurance, health insurance, etc. ER physicians do not get to make up the charge the hospital has a standard charge. There are clinics that will charge $25-$50...I think that it would be wise to go to one of those first if it is not an emergency.

There is a cost reduction plan IN PLACE, for those with no insurance.....I got the reduced fees .....saved 1000.00 on a 6000.00 bill....lol

Bernie,

Sounds like what we have now, except that we are dealing with civilian "bean counters".

I think universal health care would work or why couldn't we have free health care for preventative medicine and emergency visits to the hospital, specialists and others covered by your health insurance at 100%. If you are out of work due to being laid off or if you are taking care of children and can't work these people should be given good health care at no cost to them. There has to be other ways of going about things so everyone can have care and no one is left to suffer because they can't afford to see a doctor. That has to be a scary thing to go through. I don't know what I would do if I didn't have health insurance. If there is a fee reduction, do they base it on your income?

Liz,

Whether or not they base it on income depends. Here, and in many states, there are clinics which do use a sliding scale based on income. When you first register with them you will need to bring the most recent tax form or a couple of recent paychecks to prove eligibilty. Periodically (usually annually) you will need to bring them again to be re-evaluated. Some services (notably well-woman and well-baby care) are free. The doctors at these places are usually dedicated and you will get the same physician over time if requested. Because of the paperwork it can be a pain. But when I was first divorced and getting back on my feet they were a godsend.

When I had better income but still no insurance I found myself needing a specialist. I avoided going to the doctor because of that and fear of the bill. My sister, who is an LPN, told me to ask for an appointment but say i was a cash customer and would they lower payment since I was uninsured. This was a different statement than telling them I didn't have insurance first. Start by offering to pay, then request an arrangement toward that.

Nowdays I have insurance, but a high deductible ($1,500) most well-woman care is still fully covered though. I think most insurance companies and providers realize that prevention is a better long run thinking than treatment.

Universal health care,all for it,universal auto coverage,all for it,universal legal representation,all for it,...............All of the above would be great ,won't have to take care of myself any more,won't have to take care of my car or drive sanely any more, can do whatever I want act however I want and not have that nagging problem of paying a lawyer rediculous fees to get my but out of jail,

Yeah lets make everything "universal" somebody else can pay for me

I work for a doctor who, on numerous occassions, has been told by the patient that they don't have insurance and are concerned about paying for his fees. The doc tells them that he has a payment plan but his foremost concern is getting them better. In several of those "many occassions" the doc has even said, and I quote, "You're not the first I've treated for free and you won't be the last now let's get you feeling better." end quote.

I am very proud to work for this doctor. He's in it for all the right reasons.

On the flip side, I've worked for doctors who always order unnecessary tests. If a patient has had a CT in the last few days for microscopic hematuria, (not visible to the human eye), the doc orders another CT in the office just because the patient has insurance that does NOT require precertification. He has boldly stated to the patient that, quote, " I have a mortgage payment coming up so we need to do a CT." end quote.

So I think the latter types of docs need to be looked into when revamping the healthcare dilema.

I am a natural born US citizen who has spent 20 years living in Europe and Latin America. The only way the US health system is better is that it provides the best quality service in the world for the extremely wealthy. Everyone else is better off anywhere else in the civilized world. Nowhere does anyone pay even half of what Americans pay for medicine or "health care"; you tell them what it costs Americans and they look like they are going to pass out. They receive the same quality service or better and never have to worry about losing their home because they received medical treatment.

All those countries have their share of wealthy people, too; they have not been ruined by socialized medicine. What they don't have is a system that allows a few investors to make obscene profits by forcing people to choose between economic security and medical attention.

EmilyC: Why fight the system? Do what I do, simple throw the bill in the trash and forget it.

Bodo,

You are part of the problem. I really hope that the hospitals take people like you to court, forcing you to actually pay for the medical care you receive.

Yea, good luck on that. You can't get blood out of a turnip....

Chris, what about those that actually cannot afford the costs? These costs are so over inflated it's not even funny. The article said the guy got a bill for over $600 dollars for evaluation?!?!?! Excuse me? Someone got paid $600 to evaluate him? I'm in the wrong business. I had a sonogram done once. I was billed $500 for the doctor to read it. Now he never saw me. I didn't see him. He only read my sonogram and then billed me $500. Does this sound fair?

The whole system needs to be reworked and insurance companies need to get out of the medical industry...they're not doctors!

I dont want to sound like an ass, but if you want the service you have to pay the piper.

Yes the cost seems a little outrageous, but as someone already said the costs go up to make up the difference for the people that dont ever intend on paying the bill. The costs are also so high because of the lawsuits people file.

I know for a fact (in NW PA) that you can set up a payment plan for as low as $5 a month with no interest(We opted for $50 a month). All you have to do is talk to them and they will help. I am sure if you go in guns blazing right off the bat you will run into opposition, but most of the people that work at a hospital are just like the rest of us, common folk trying to make a living.

Bodo...maybe we should go back to locking people in the tower when they don't pay their bills?

First, what you pay for "services" doesn't go to the Dr. or nurse alone: building, heat, AC, lights, salaries for Dr, nurse, pharmacist, housekeeping, security,aides, receptionist - all 24 hours a day - then: sheets, pillows, mattresses, beds, computers, papers, special required refrigerators for meds, for food for patients separate from everything else, etc. etc. etc....OH! And those that don't pay.

Emily, it sounds like they've already pretty much screwed you over and ruined your credit. The damage is already done. The time for a payment plan would have been back before they turned you over to collection. Even without a payment plan in place, had you paid some small amount toward the bill on a monthly basis, they probably would not have turned you over to collection.

At this point, you have nothing to gain by paying the bill (except for making it go away, and if it's a moral issue for you, knowing that you did the "honorable" thing by paying the bill.)

If you ignore the bill, eventually they will probably go away. You can't get blood out of a turnip, as they say.

EmilyC,

Just act like AIG and to h**l with doing the "honorable" thing.

I appreciate the thoughts you all have given. I forgot to mention that I had been out of work from June 2007 til July 2008, so for over 7 months I lived off my savings and then the grace of my parents once my savings ran out. I HAD a cushion, but it was gone by the time this event happened. Again, I was not lazy, I was out there putting in job applications and going on interviews. (but what do you do when even Hobby Lobby tells you that you are over-qualified and they won't hire you?)

Yes right now I am dealing with the "principal" of it. I did EVERYTHING they asked to me do for months, and NOW they are free to screw me? How is that correct? (notice I did not say fair)

The thing with payment plans is this, I was never offered that as an option. Everything I was told was "it will be taken care of, you more than qualify for aid, the hospital will write this off no problem etc etc" so until I got the collections letter and THEY talked about a payment plan, it was not on the table for me, nor was it even a consideration from my point of view. Maybe if they HAD given that as an option I could have set something up with them.

And Mike I didn't "go in all guns blazing" I only fell back on contacting the CEO's after a YEAR trying to work it out through the financial dept failed. I consider my actions very patient enen though I was advised by my Congressman and friends who work in medical billing to file a lawsuit and contact the local news stations for publicity of the situation. I have chosen to avoid press over this at the current time however, because I hoped they "right" thing would be done by the hospital or management company.

Bodo,

I took my daughter to ER for broken nose due to softball injury. Provided insurance info. numerous times in writing and phone.

They never billed it and turned me over to collections. Ya know what? I throw that bill in the trash every time.

There are those that accept financial responsibility and those that don't.

There are many parts to this problem - 1st, SicknTired - your bill could have been incorrectly coded by the hospital. The insurance companies have created such a complicated system for coding, that hospitals have had to add staff to correct insurance denials - if they are understaffed, or if they use a 3rd party billing company, you end up getting the bill for what should have been legitimately payed by the insurance. 2nd, system abuse - many individuals choose to not have a family physician and plug what is desigend to be EMERGENCY SERVICE departments with runny noses, sore throats, etc. 3rd, illegal aliens - show up for the same reasons as the 2nd case group and give false addresses/SS#'s and walk away with no intention of paying - and they don't - and many hospitals don't try to challenge this because it is seen as politically incorrect (not racial profiling or hate, but the reverse symptom), and 4th is drug seekers - those who go from hospital to hospital faking some elusive pain (how can a dr prove that your tooth doesn't hurt???). Even if the Dr recognizes them for what they are - it has still taken hospital time and resources which will not be paid. 5th - INSURANCE COMPANIES! They'll tell you that they are on your side, trying to keep health costs down, but all they are really doing is driving up their own profits by creating "cartels" where they attempt to exclusivise coverage for a region and then set the prices they are willing to pay for certain services. For example - a large well known insurance company can offer coverage for a large employer at a fixed rate (I didn't say low-cost, or even lower cost) they can then leverage this against the local hospitals and doctors by saying that they already have these patients, and will be the ones paying the bill, and that this is what they are willing to pay for each service.

Who get's left holdoing the bag? The ones outside the system - people who are self pay, or those who have economy insurance coverage who have to pay the balance due of a high deductible. Also the doctors - think what you will, but many doctors are taking it in the chops on this too.

The system is broken - time for a new game, new deal - some hybrid between socialized care, single source pay, but it has to change!

Oh Sherri, I forgot to mention, that night at the ER, they told me my cost would be $700 and we needed to pay something right then. My father, a minister of a small church wrote a check for $200. So we HAD paid a portion of what was owed.

Just trying to show that I was not being a dead beat... $200 out of $700 is 35%, how much would have been acceptable in your opinion?

Thank you for mentioning drug seekers. My brother is a drug seeker and owes tens of thousands of dollars for ER visits and ambulance rides, that he will never pay. He gets a prescription that is supposed to last for a week and eats it in a few days. He has a circle of friends who all do the same thing. This has to be a worse problem than illegals because drug seekers go from hospital to hospital sometimes several times a week with back pain, headaches and kidney stones and make it difficult for people who really havet those ailments to get treatment and be believed.

I would also like to say that I went to the ER once and the dr. saw me for 3 minutes and I received a seperate bill from him for $276.00. How much is that an hour that he makes for shining a light in my eye and listening to my heart?

Thank you for mentioning drug seekers. My brother is a drug seeker and owes tens of thousands of dollars for ER visits and ambulance rides, that he will never pay. He gets a prescription that is supposed to last for a week and eats it in a few days. He has a circle of friends who all do the same thing. This has to be a worse problem than illegals because drug seekers go from hospital to hospital sometimes several times a week with back pain, headaches and kidney stones and make it difficult for people who really havet those ailments to get treatment and be believed.

I would also like to say that I went to the ER once and the dr. saw me for 3 minutes and I received a seperate bill from him for $276.00. How much is that an hour that he makes for shining a light in my eye and listening to my heart?

Thank you for mentioning drug seekers. My brother is a drug seeker and owes tens of thousands of dollars for ER visits and ambulance rides, that he will never pay. He gets a prescription that is supposed to last for a week and eats it in a few days. He has a circle of friends who all do the same thing. This has to be a worse problem than illegals because drug seekers go from hospital to hospital sometimes several times a week with back pain, headaches and kidney stones and make it difficult for people who really have those ailments to get treatment and be believed.

One word:

Lawyers

Was a doctor driving the ambulance? Perhaps your beef is with emergeny transport company.

I agree with sick n tired. Lawyers the fear of a lawsuit is what is driving the cost of health care. How can you put a dollar amount on what a service is worth? Tort reforn is needed to control health care costs.

Go USA, that could be it.

Suzy, the other night, my son spiked a fever of 106. I took him to the ER. It was filled with non speaking Mexicans. They were there for regular care and treatment; not emergencies. My son and I had to wait 3 hours to get help. Does this sound fair to all of us?

LS-415070

Just what exactly is a non speaking mexican? If you did not hear them speaking what makes you assume they only speak spanish? For that matter what makes you think maybe it wasnt what they spoke out of habit?

Besides did you take a poll or just decide they were all there for regular care and treatment? If you didnt understand the "non speaking mexicans" how do you know what they were there for? Any head trauma gets you in the ER and isnt always visible.

Do you assume every asian you see speaking an asian language doesnt speak english? Grow up.

As a Surgeon I can assure you the problems goes beyond the illegals that some of you want to blame for all our problems. The reason many use the ER instead of a Primary Care Physician is access and money. Some Primary Care Clinics do not accept Medicaid or certain insurance cards. Let's use a group like Health Link. Health Link has certain Doctors and certain Hospitals that are in network. Depending on your coverage you may have a 80/20 pay in network and a 70/30 out of network. You also have Specialist that do not accept Health Link at all.

Many of the insurance groups basically make deals with the Physicians on both price and limits of service. To test this simply call your Physician's office an ask how much it would cost for an office call if you do not have insurance. I can assure you it will be more than it costs if you do. Some also make you pay a copay up front or for those witout insurance the entire bill. ER cannot do this and that is why it is being abused.

It would be beneficial for all of you to call your insurance company and ask what your restrictions are on service before you have a problem. As a Vascular Surgeon I hope none of you will need my service but if you do you need to be prepared.

One of you above mentioned the cost of Malpractice Insurance and Tort Reform. Both of these are major problems. First on malpractice many insurance companies will settle out of Court because it is cheaper than fighting the case. When they do this it simply raises the rates. Most of the Physicians I know hate this because there was no malpractice. Insurance Companies are going to make a profit and do not care about the right or wrong. If it is cheaper to settle than go to court so be it.

Tort reform is also needed. I don't care what a lawyer charges per hour but they need to be paid by the hour not a percentage of the award they can get their client. Let them price themselves off the market. If they feel they are worth $2000 per hour let them try to get it. But we have to stop their greed somewhere down the line.

This same concept needs to be applied to Physicians. If I price myself out of the market then so be it. Prior to any surgery you should research your Physician on line. I personally refuse to charge one person more than another for the same procedure. Unfortunately, I cannot say that for all Physicians. Perhaps we took a different oath.

I hope we never see it get to a place where people have to make the decision to die, when they could be saved, rather than leave their family a debt they can never overcome.

I have a very good friend that is a thoracic surgeon. He has told me stories of the same of what you mentioned. Malpractice being the worst because lawyers need pay for their lifestyle. Doctors are like any other job out there when it comes to expertise. some have it and some don't. If a doctor tells you that you have a condition, does one know what the procedure is to correct it? I had Lyme's disease years ago. I went to 4 different specialist. All but one, put me on steroids. When I went to the last specialist, he sent a nurse from Synergy health care to my home. That "nurse" told me steroids weaken the immune system and the Lyme tick attacks the immune system. He gave me an IV for 3 weeks and I recovered 100%. Now here was a case where 3 specialist didn't know how to correct my problem, but wanted to give me all kinds of medications to try and fix it and a nurse comes to my rescue. One specialist offered me a new drug, telling me I would need to come in once a month for blood test because it has a severe side effect on your liver, kidneys and pancreas. I looked at him and told him. You don't know what I have, but you want to give me something that can screw up my system so you will be able to treat it. I never went back to him. Their guessing isn't in my plans for living.

I had to take my wife to the hospital because she had colitis. While she was in the emergency room there was a woman in the next area. She was complaining she was sick in her stomach. The doctor came in and we could hear the conversation. The doctor said all the test and x-rays came back normal. She said she was sick and throwing up. the doctor told her he didn't know what from because again her test all came back okay. She then asked him if she could get a note so she would be off work for a week. The doctor told her. "I am not going to give you a note because you are not sick. He walked out and she got up and walked our with her 3 children, cussing at the doctor. Real class. That's a problem in itself. Abuse of the system. Too many people at the emergency room because they"think" they have an emergency. I know my daughter had insurance and went to the emergency because she was sick a throwing up. The insurance refused to pay, saying she could have gone to a family physician. I agree, but she was sick at 2 a.m and our family physician was sound asleep. We got the bill and paid it. That's because of our principles and the way we live. Responsible.

I agree with you Jack. I no longer have health insurance because my Cobra ran out after being laid off and my current job doesn't offer insurance.

I think I have been healthier the past 6 months than I have been in the past 50 years. I don't even think about running to the doctor or emergency room anymore.

the Whole premise of this article is ridiculous.

what's next? pushing for Universal Dental care?!?!? free lawyers???

i had a dental abscess that could have become meningitis and had to pay 3000 for a root canal and some fix up work. i paid the money gladly over 6 months. people pay all kinds of money for different necessitates to dentist, lawyers, accountants etc. why the hell is it that if it's medical and to a doctor, they think it should be free or covered by some one else. medical care is not a right. if you are worried, dish out 100 bucks a month and purchase medical insurance, instead of blowing the money on booze, or a fancy vacation. stop saying medical care should be free. i dont want to pay for your sorry existence with my taxes.

Excuse me I don't know many people who run to the Dr, after one sneeze, and I surely never went, and I didn't run my child there every time she got sick either, when we went it would depend on what was wrong with us, be it her running 102 fever or the time I fell and twisted my ankle and thought it was broke "because of the way it looked after I landed on it" and it being a week end, and the times I did take her or myself was needed, but if I had had a $2000.00 deductible your right it would have saved a trip to the Dr because I probably wouldn't have went, and had I not went and it had been broken it could have cause more serious problems, same could be said for when she ran a high fever, I would have took her anyway.

I bet your a well loved boss. Heartless, Your switch to a higher deductible, will save money, but it will also prevent ones who really should go to go. Sure I do know one person who is kinda a hypochondriac, but that doesn't mean everyone is, and if you are a person that never gets sick, it maybe that you are the one with the problem, thinking everyone is as healthy as you and shouldn't need to go to the Dr or hospital, every ones body's are different, my ex was the type of person who rarely got sick and had to be literally dying before he would go to the Dr, and there were a couple of occasions that, then he almost waited to long and caused more un necessary medical treatment, because had he went to the Dr to begin with it wouldn't had caused himto stay in the hospital, he would have had to just originally take some medicine for a week or so. The one time I forced him to go to the hospital on a week end maybe I shouldn't had, after all it was only a brown recluse spider that had bit him on the neck and blood poisoning was going up his neck, dang we shoulda stayed home and thought about the deductible, woulda been alot easier. ha ha

Intersting. I was bit on both arms by a brown recluse. I went to Patients First and never to a hospital. I had the blood poisioning going up my left arm to my lymph glands. The doctor at PF gave me a presciption. It was good we have a good prescription plan because the cost was over $1,300.00. The first doctor at PF looked at it in an early stage and did all the wrong things that turns it into a MRSA infection. That was the problem. Wrong doctor on first visit.

Reason we went to the hospital was we are in a small town and there are no such things here as Patients First, they are small towns all around, we don't have the option of the likes of Patients first or anything close to that. And only reason he let me take him, was he didn't have a choice, he was trying to pass out on me, and we didn't realize it was blood poisoning till we got in there. My point was if he had went earlier the day before to a regular Dr when he had been first been bit to begin with instead of a nothings wrong with me "hard head", the hospital stay may have been omitted, he was definitely not a hypochondriac. an I don't know that many who are.

Actually my employees are very glad to the switch. A $2,000 deductible has lowered all of their monthly premiums, of which I pay 1/2. After they meet a dectuctible their visits are paid 100%. After adding up the savings in premiums, even if they meet a deductible, which most won't have to, they will come out ahead. Too many people think short term and don't look far enough ahead. Yes, it's scary, a $2,000 decuctible, but if you don't go to the doctor very often you will save much more than that in lower premium costs. I did what's best for the whole not the few. Not to mention, most health care providers will work with you on the deductible if it happens to be a big hit at once.

That does stink. And what your mom is going through is the type of care we will get with Obama's nationalized health care plan. They first need to kick ALL illegals out of the country and make them go through the proper protocol for citizenship. Limit health care and prescription cost. Then insurance will be affordable. I agree too many are using the ER as their primary care. If it's not an emergency they should be sent away.

Obviously Jakc is a sympathetic morn republican. If we nationalize health care and hospitals no longer have board memebers that make hundreds of thousands of dollars for part time work and only care about profits I guarentee asprin won't cost more than a $1. Also the gov't will get rid of the for PROFIT insurance companies. You see jack when you try and capitalize on health care, health becomes the furthest thing from what they care about. If you ever had a relative or loved one that did not have insurance you would know what I am talking about and would stop listneing to fright wing radio.

Michelle, sorry to hear about your mom. Hopefully change is coming.

So, profit is bad?

You bash health insurers who "profit", however, it is directly contradictory to the argument being made by the article. The argument is, those without health insurance leave ER's....those with health insurance, get the care they need/deserve. So, which is it?

You should do some reseach on how well socialized medicine is in the world. It's pretty pathetic what you find. Although, the extent of your research is probably watching a Michael Moore film.

HowStupid, you really are. You have no clue what socialized health care is like. I do work in the U.K. and Canada. It is the worst care in the world. Have you ever visited a V.A. hospital? It will be worse than that. Do you actually think any decent doctors will work under this type of plan. It won't happen, as they will all be on their own and insurance will pay for their services. You will end up with a bunch of young, inexperienced, and hack doctors who can't make it on their own. And how doesmy criticism of nationalized health care make me a republican? It's called common sense and knowledge. Something you don't have, but you may want to do a little research.

They do not charge $300 for an aspirin...they charge around $5 because they have to have a pharmacist on staff to issue the aspirin....someone has to call your physician to see if it is okay to give you the aspirin and someone has to chart it. If something happened to you because you took the aspirin the hospital would be at fault, and then be sued.

By the way ....not for profit healthcare's board of directors are volunteers. I know.

maybe you should pay for your mom, rather than us.

the Whole premise of this article is ridiculous.

what's next? pushing for Universal Dental care?!?!? free lawyers???

i had a dental abscess that could have become meningitis and had to pay 3000 for a root canal and some fix up work. i paid the money gladly over 6 months. people pay all kinds of money for different necessitates to dentist, lawyers, accountants etc. why the hell is it that if it's medical and to a doctor, they think it should be free or covered by some one else. medical care is not a right. if you are worried, dish out 100 bucks a month and purchase medical insurance, instead of blowing the money on booze, or a fancy vacation. stop saying medical care should be free.

vineman~how many times are you going to post this same story about your dental abcess? We get your point.

I would love to see privately bought health insurance that cost $100/ month. The last time I checked into it, for my whole family, it would've cost in the neighborhood of $1000/month...yeah, don't have that. Just because someone doesn't have the funds for that doesn't mean they are frivolous with their money....I don't buy booze on a regular basis (and when I do it's the "wine in the box"(read cheap) kind....I haven't taken a vacation in 10 years...don't own fancy cars, just ones that run and get me to work, and have duct tape holding the headliner up.

I don't think it should be free...i would be willing to pay a reasonable amount every month, if it meant that I could get care that wouldnt bankrupt me. I would be fine even paying the premium I pay now, which totals nearly $700/month, if that meant that I could get affordable care....not pay that, and then STILL get saddled with a $6000 hospital bill.

People who have health insurance get care like this. It's not just the uninsured.

Great post Alan!

Hey, don't provide too many facts..........the Libs will find another excuse as to why we need FREE healthcare.....like it's a right or something! Folks just DO NOT get it........AND the system WILL be WORSE with government controlled healthcare. Ask the UK, and Canada.....ummmmm, the people who REALLY get it!

I don't see people lobbying for FREE healthcare...heck even the people in Europe don't have FREE healthcare, they pay for it with their taxes. What people are asking for is an efficient, affordable system of healthcare....not one where I pay over $700/month in premiums, and can still get saddled with a bill that is 3 times my yearly income. An example...my son was born with severe pyloric stenosis, which is a blockage of the valve that empties his stomach. He was first diagnosed when he was 3 weeks old, had the surgery, and went home 2 days later. The bill for that visit, AFTER insurance, was $10,000. A month later, the condition came back...however, it took me another 3 weeks of going to the doctor with him every day to convince them there was something wrong. He ended up spending 4 days in PICU, due to dehydration, then a month in the hospital, before they were finally willing to admit the first surgery hadn't been successful. He had a repeat surgery, and went home 36 hours later. The total cost for THAT visit, after insurance had paid, was still over $60,000!!!! That was AFTER the insurance company wrangled with the hospital for nearly a year over what they had charged....in one instance, they had charged us for a month of meals, even though my son was barely 3 months old, still on the bottle, and couldn't eat solid food anyway. They also charged us $250/day for what they DID feed him, which was a high calorie substance fed through a GI tube. All of this was 3 years ago, and I"m STILL paying off those bills...I send at least $50 a month, more if I can afford it, and have sent every tax refund I got each of those years toward that bill.

Elizabeth101878 I have Family living in Canada and I lived there for 4 years during Pierre Trudeaux's time who started their system.

At first it was inexpensive and today it costs each family member $775.00 per month so a family of four pays $3,100.00. Of course the employer has to pitch in $150 per month for each family member.

The rest comes from Gas tax, Liquor tax, tobacco tax and very high federal and provincial taxes.

The reason it's so high is because you are buying insurance for those who don't care to work.

America will be the first fourth World country before long.

Canada's population is 35 million to our 300 million.

England's health is going bust and an amount is now assigned to each number (that's a person) should you be on an operating table having a bypass and you have reached your max you are dead meat. This is not a joke this was started 9 months ago.

and you came back?? thailand is also a stink hole. your one er visit is not enough info to gauge the entire thailand medical field. heck come to california. stinking illegals flood the er and we are now 84 hospitals less thanks to these leeches

It's no surprise people go to other countries to get surgery done because the cost in their home country is too high. And sometimes, there is better treatment in different hospitals in different locations.

and what is the cost of living in Thailand...ppl there cannot afford to go to the doctor because it is to expensive....we need to put things into prospective.

Ditto on that experience except I went to Singapore. Yes, it's another one of those "evil" socialized medicine countries but I couldn't find anything 2nd rate about it. Technically, it's not completely socialized--you can go to a private doctor if you choose, so it's more of a hybrid system. I chose to use their public health care system.

I was in and out of the ER in less than a couple of hours, had tests including x-rays, etc. Total cost to me was about $40 and in a single bill (not one from the doctor, one from the hospital, one from the X-ray technician, etc). That same ER visit in the U.S. would easily have cost over $2000 and I would probably have had to fill in 12 forms, received 12 pages of bills from 6 different people, and have had to sort through 12 pages of insurance records, and spend 6 months calling insurance companies and hospital staff trying to sort out billing problems. The medical staff in Singapore were professional, courteous, fast, and the hospital was clean, well equipped and very much state of the art. Top notch in every way and easily as good or better than any leading U.S. hospital. Industry leading biomedical and biotechnology research is done in Singapore, so it's not like I visited some podunk hospital in a 3rd world country. They have more doctors per person than the United States so I'm gonna guess that wait lines are shorter than the U.S. The U.S. beats Singapore in lawyers per person though. Gotta love our priorities.

Cost of living and salaries in Singapore are not significantly different than the U.S. Overall taxes are lower. Much lower. It's clear that health care in the U.S. is grossly overpriced. The only question is: is the doctors, the insurance companies or the lawyers that are raking it in?

I couldnt agree more. This article talks about leaving the E.R. early??? That was the first red flag in my mind. They must not be talking about Illegal mexican immigrants because they will bilk the free system for all it is worth with NO INTENTION of honestly paying for the treatment they recieve.

You didn't really think the article would say anything about giving free medical care to the illegals did you? This is NBC!

Right, because we all know that there is zero waste in any government program. No contractor has ever taken Uncle Sam for a ride.

Are you kidding me?!

I appreciate your comment on government waste. It does not negate the fact that universal health care already exists and needs to be regulated. As I am not familiar with possibilities, I would welcome any suggestions you might have for a more effective body to oversee medical costs.

or you can quit paying 150 a month for super cable and stop drinking beer everyday as well as qhit smoking and cell ohones for the entire family and blin blin. that is your health cost for insurance right their.. but noooooooo. i need bling bling and still demand free medical????bite it you fat over fed remote control cable tv cell phone junkie

The difference is, the doctors don't get sued when they go overseas to perform charitable work. Eliminate that option here and you might find some good doctors doing some pro bono work.

Hey "yanqui-made", thats YOUR culture's lifestyle, not mine!

Americanmade,

RIGHT ON!

I work in the medical profession with some damn good physicians who preform a lot of procedures on patients without insurance. Many of those patients have all the conveniences of life including internet , cable, cell phones, cars, ect. ect., but choose not to purchase even basic health insurance or pay their medical bills even when offered a low monthly payment plan by the hospital or doctors's office. They default, thinking they should receive free care! This drives up the cost for everyone.

as i am still a noob.
this is my first computer and have never owned a cell phone or a beeper.
my minivan is the basic model with am fm cassettte . much to the chagrine of my kids. and my house is small and a cheap fixer upper guess what i own it 100%
call me a trailor trash white boy all day. when my family needs medical they thank me for not wasting my life chasing bling bling yes it is a chrysler, let the jibe s begin lol

I do not drink or do drugs. I rarely watch tv, and I'm not over weight, Yes I have a computer from when I was working, yes I have Internet as it is included in my rent, thank goodness, I do have a home phone that is threw the internet as well that runs for me about $70.00 a "year" that includes long distance calls, which I use it for most calls and do use to call out of state because all my relatives live in other parts of the country and the cell phone is a prepaid type, which is good for 3 months as long as I have minutes on it, I figure for my Internet phone an cell the total is about $12.00 a month, for a years worth of phone service $144.00 which is darn good. I do not talk on the phone alot but I do need it in case my daughter needs to get in touch with me be it for a ride or tell me she's going to be late or in case my car breaks down or so someone can call about a job that I applied for, she has a cell phone of her own, which she works and pays for it her self. an the car I drive I got when employed as well, after someone vandalized the paid one I had, I was forced to go to a hood winker where I could get a car to drive to work, because of the financially state that my ex had left me in, then the place of employment closed after I was there nearly 25 years, figure the usually rent, car pmt and insurance, utilities, car plates,btw my rent is cheap, there is none which come close to the price I'm paying around here. Tell me how far would $800 go if you figure your bills and eat too. Insurance with a help of 65% that the government says they help with would still cost me nearly $300 a month, tell me with $500 left over where do you live, my car maybe? as I need it to look for work, oh and I forgot gas to look for work.

.............in a socialized healthcare system, your wife might have developed "casket-like" symptoms BEFORE anyone came in to help her........but hey, it is affordable!!!! LOL!

and just how much "care" do youi think doctors will have under universal health care? When the government will dictate what they make, etc... do you honestly think we will have doctors worth anything? That is part of the problem in many of the european countries with universal health care. long lines and waiting periods, no real concern, etc... just pick a number.... may as well be in the DMV....

good for you. and the nexy time you deny treatment and get really ill,who are you going to sue?? you guessed it the doctor who knew more than you ,but in your arrogance you thi8nk you know more. so quit sueing america and costs will go down

You need to contact your Insurance company that is fraud and they will take action.

My hubby had an outpatient procedure done at the hospital. They gave him a Coke. One can!! They billed the insurance company $7.00 for liquid refreshment!! SEVEN BUCKS! for one Coke! I could have bought 24 for that!!

EMTALA, Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act, is the applicable law that you speak of when you say that the hospital staff and physician have to see you and treat you if you show up in the ER. However, the hospital and physician are not paid for this care if you have no insurance, medicare, medicaid, or cold hard cash. There is no payment by the government for this. What EMTALA actually states is that you must be seen and medically evaluated. If an emergency actually exists, the physician must treat you. If one doesn't they can discharge you to be seen by whomever you choose to be seen by in a different venue. But, in order to ensure that no emergency actually exists, most physicians will feel the need to perform blood tests, xrays, CT scan, etc., depending on the symptoms/complaints. If they just rely on a physical assessment without these aids, they can get it wrong and be sued later not only by the patient, but be fined by the government if it is proven they chose poorly and violated the EMTALA rules because they didn't treat the missed emergency. (I'm a former ER Nursing Director)

My brother was attacked this weekend by a guy who broke his leg in 6 places. My brother has no job, no insurance and very little cash at the moment. The hospital admitted him performed surgery to implant a rod from his knee to his ankle brought in a specialist for the surgery, kept him overnight and then when it was clear my brother was in extreme pain they extended his stay an extra night and the doctor even came back in the middle of the night when the nurses couldnt get the pain under control. His level of care was excellent and the hospital and doctor has no way of knowing if they would ever see a dime from my brother. The truth is the bill will get paid either by his family or through a payment plan but this injury has basically ended his plan of becoming a police officer. (he was scheduled for the tests this month.)

The point of the above story is the hospitals will treat you and take care of you even if they probably wont ever see a dime. I had a friend who was an emergency room doctor at one of the best hospitals in the country. A guy had a bicycle accident similar to the one in this article and had severe scrapes on his body. My friend saw the patient for about 2 minutes before the guy freaked out and left. My friend tried to convince him to atleast let the hospital clean up the wounds and check for broken bones but the guy refused. The guy actually ended up dying from an infection that most likely would of been taken care of by basic preventative care. (clean wound, antibiotics)

Yes this stuff is expensive but it is your life, your vision, your health, your ability to walk, run, throw, lift. Don't trade your future because you are afraid of a big bill.

well...i'm sure you DID become a doctor all by your self righteous self right? Did you pay for it all up front? Prolly I suppose. This is exactly the kind of thing taxes should be used for. It's so fundamental. We have the capacity to do it. Why not? Money. What is more important than each others health. For the love. Same crap. Different day

Why not? Because of greed, that's why... When you read some of the posts of those who think that's the greatest what we've got, then you see why it is the way it is! And sadly, nothing will change. Obama talks, and lets the medical /pharma/insurance lobbyists talk. They are clever, they'll get their way, and American people will keep holding the bag....