Attorney defends trooper in Okla. ambulance stop

Agreed. Surprised racial profiling hasn't been brought up yet. The paramedic looks pretty black to me and the trooper looks like a hick.

The term "hick" is now a racial slur. Better stop using it unless you are a racist.

MN Nick and Anita Bail Out you both fight for opposite causes but create the same outcome. Don't you see that? This should not be a racial issue black yellow purple the EMS worker did not deserve to be treated that way and that cop is a jacka$$.

Given that the term "hick" doesn't refer to a race, it's not really possible for it to be a racist term.

Snark fail.

(Not that I'm defending the insult against the cop. He may or may not be a hick.)

The word "hick" most certainly refers to white people. It is a derogatory word used to mock white people who live in small towns or in the country. That is exactly how Nick intended to use it. I'm simply pointing out the fact it is a racist term and is no longer acceptable to use.

My goodness you guys. I'm a hick and I'm dang proud of it. I am a hick because I can work harder then most men I know, because I'm not scared to get my hands dirty, and because I understand and live the principle of georgics. THAT is what a hick is, not what some city slicker thinks. :P What a silly thing to argue about! The only way words get power is when people react to them. Don't you remember middle school?

Actually, "white people" is the correct term in the way it is used within the context of this discussion. Any reasonable person in the United States knows that it refers to people who have the physical appearance of people of European descent. Race is just a social construct and is dependent on how we as a society define it.

You people are ridiculous... Yes I said "you people" as in bigots!

Here's another video of it here;

http://carlosmiller.com/2009/05/28/oklah...

These cops should be ashamed of themselves, this women needed to go to the hospital.

What if it was their mothers? They'd be escorting the ambulance all the way to the hospital.

Surprised racial profiling hasn't been brought up yet.

That won't happen because the only one they could see was the driver - who looked as white as me.

These cops should be ashamed of themselves, this women needed to go to the hospital.

I agree. I hope the OHP punishes him. The DA should have pressed charges against him. In the state of Oklahoma, it is illegal (although a misdemeanor) to stop an ambulance in transit with a patient on board. Once the trooper was told, he was breaking the law.

Wouldn't caucasian be wrong, since we no longer define people as "negro"?

I can't keep up. LOL

I prefer to call myself beige, anyway...

;)

The term "hick" is not exclusive to whites. Black people live in the country, too. As do other ethnic groups.

The EMT tried to be professional, but the officers were too wound up to listen. But considering that Officer Martin was a war veteran who is still transitioning to life here, I can see why his reaction was so combative. He is on paid leave now, and I think that's a good idea. Maybe he could benefit from some counseling.

Hick, schmick...who freakin' cares? I'm an up-jumped monkey and so are the rest of you...none any better than the others...

As to the police officer, anyone seeing the full dash-cam video can't but help realize this jackass is powertrippin' and needs to be off the force. I get sick of good cops like caroaber sullying their own name by sticking up for these creeps. Don't you realize that pisses people off more than anything else...when good cops close ranks around P.O.S. @!$%#s just because they wear a badge, too?

If law enforcement wants to project an image of noble service, then the first people to jump on the dilrods needs to be the GOOD COPS! And not after the news media, and not just when something can't be swept under the rug. Otherwise, you all are tainted by the fear instilled in the public by the evil cops. How hard is this to understand??

Here's the full eight minute video on YouTube showing the "failure" to yeild, followed by the officer going back for the ambulance after being dismissed from the stolen vehicle scene....the other people who show up in the scene are the family members of the old woman in the ambulance, who were following it to the hospital after she collapsed.

hick |hik|noun informal chiefly derogatorya person who lives in the country, regarded as being unintelligent or provincial : wondering what a hick from the sticks was doing there | [as adj. ]a hick town.

What I'm not seeing there, is a racial identifier. I grew up "in the sticks" -- and I can assure you that there were black people around.

If he was in such a hurry to get to a back up call, how an why did he have the time to pull an ambulance over and harass the paramedics?

Regardless of whether the patient was in a life threatening situation or not, the fact that the cop was so infuriated that he pulled over an ambulance which was supposedly impeding on his ability to get to a call, and thus further delaying his arrival to the call should say something about his anger management issues.

As much as we should like to see good and bad in this story, there seems to be nothing more than stupidity. If a cop comes up behind you with the lights blazing, I expect that even an ambulance should yield .... if the trip to the hospital was so urgent why no lights on the ambulance? Then, despite needing to "backup" someone, the cop decides to pull over the ambulance because he gave him the finger??? What happened to the emergency?? Then the people in the ambulance start fighting with the cop because they want get the patient to the hospital??? None of this makes any sense .... The "reasons" for thae actions of virtually everyone involved are completly betrayed by their actions ..... For know I can just say I m happy not to be sick in Oklahoma.

PS - I'm not sure that "hick" is a racial slur since it refers to unsophisticated country people - they are discriminated against in every part of the world as "hicks" - not dependant on race, religion, etc ...

You have to yield to an emergency vehicle with siren and lights flashing. The ambulance was not in emergency mode,no lights or siren, so has to yield, patient or not. Thats the law.

The officer came back after being dismissed from his call. All the ambulance had to do was pull to the side, problem solved. How was the officer supposed to know there was a patient in the unit? A little power trip on both sides, but like it or not, you have to obey an officers requests even if you dont agree with them.

I find it unfortunate that Extremist Moderate in post #1.14 misrepresents what I wrote to promote his/her own agenda. Luckily, others can comprehend that I am not "sticking up for" this behavior. Your "good cop" cliche is tiresome. Reading is fundamental.

From what I understand, certain towns have ordinances on when it is appropriate or not appropriate to use lights and sirens in an ambulance. So without more info, we can't say whether it was an emergency or not. My feeling is if her life wasn't in at least some danger, her family would have DRIVEN her to the hospital, seeing as how they were right behind her anyway...

certain towns have ordinances on when it is appropriate or not appropriate to use lights and sirens in an ambulance...we can't say whether it was an emergency or not.

They were on a State highway. A State Trooper pulled them over. It was NOT an emergency or the ambulance's lights and siren would have been on.

The officer came back after being dismissed from his call.

Where in the article does it say that?

According to the article this guy just got back from Iraq. The police department should have known better than to set this guy lose on the streets before he has had the time to make the transition back to everyday life. Keep the trooper off the streets until he has had the emotional help he needs to adjust to civilian life.

LMFAO, lovin' the hick debate, had no idea that would transpire. I grew up in a rural area, I refer to it as a po-dunk town outside of Green Bay. Maybe I should be consistent though per post #1.16 and refer to it as a hick town. Didn't realize Webster's already settled the matter.

I can't believe anyone would try to defend these cops. If you've seen the video, you can easily see that the paramedics were being extremely cooperative and trying to explain to that a$$hole cop that they had a patient, but the cop was being a complete d!ck about the whole thing, thats when the paramedics got pissed: after it was demonstrated that cop was being such a pig. I mean, since when do cops try to choke you out against a van? Where is that technique in the escalation of force? Where was the baton, the spray, the TASER? Being stopped by a cop like that would be a nightmare.

That's why I keep a container of donuts in my car....

yes he is, common sense should have taken over here! Ogre no trooper with "I have the power syndrome" defenately.

Hell I see police squad cars rushing in and out of traffic, taking red light, qnd taking stop signs with out lights or sirens, twice the squad car has almost hit my sister.

Yeah cops need to be kept in check. Like live monitoring of their dashboard cams. We give them tasers, guns and handcuffs and then tell them they can go arrest people and no one will question them for weeks or months afterward. I'm not saying all or even most cops are evil monsters like this guy was. I'm just saying the system is setup so moron megalomaniacs see obvious loopholes for their abuse of the system. The cops not breaking the law wouldn't mind being monitored while on the job. Everyone else is monitored while they're at work.

The cop needs to be @!$%# canned. Maintaining his authority was more important then the life of the individual being transported to the hospital.

If the patient had died, I would charge him with 1st degree manslaughter.

I see he came back from Iraq only a month ago.

This does not excuse in loss of temper. But it does shed some light on why his fuse is so short.

POST DRAMATIC STRESS DISORDER is a serious physiological condition.

coming back from Iraq is irrelevent - that is not a "legal" excuse to explain this behavior.

You haven't seen the video of the constable who tasered the 72yo woman in Austin, TX, have you? That guy was out of control.

There was another story a little while ago about some NFL star racing to the hospital as his mother was dying, and the cop pulled him over and held him just outside the doors to the hospital. It happened in another southern state, and I believe it was a white cop and black NFL star. http://eel8.newsvine.com/_news/2009/03/28/2611481-dallas-officer-detains-nfl-player-rushing-to-dying-mother-in-laws-bedside-

In each case, yes, the officer was justified in pulling over the vehicle, but should have used his brain and a little compassion to handle the situation. It seems a sad combinatino of racial prejudices, power-tripping cops, and little oversight / punishment.

This maniac cop is a Jason Meserle (Bart Shooting) in the making. Take his gun, badge and power before someone gets killed or seriously injured. He is a ticking time bomb. This cop should be psychologically evaluated.

Why dont everyone just fess up... You hate cops !!!! and the media, the left and people like that will always show cops in a negative lite... Sure I believe he could of used his gray matter and not stopped the ambulance but in reverse the ambulance could of yielded to the cop... its a sucky situation, but the cop supercedes the ambulance and has every right to stop a meat wagon !

Would you react the same way if that was your mother in the ambulance with a possible life threatening situation?

If it was life threatening, the lights and siren would be in use. Pretty simple.

The ambulance did pull over. Whether or not you think it was fast enough, it wasn't worth escalating the situation to this result. What was an extremely minor incident was blown up into a situation that risked the injury or loss of life of several people.

bigboy, you're damn right I hate cops! did they stop someone in my family from getting killed by a drunk driver? Did they catch the guy who robbed me? Did they catch the guy who burgled my neighbors house? NO! They are a bunch of powertripping @!$%#s, as this post CLEARLY shows. You go right ahead and support whatever they do, until they do it to you.

bigboy,

You are so wrong! The ambulance had a patient in it. They often run without the siren and/or lights on, because sometimes it makes the patient more anxious - that means the heart rate and blood pressure can increase, sometimes to a dangerous level.

Even if the red neck law in Oklahoma gives that cop the right to stop the ambulance, he, the cop, admitted he pulled them over because he THOUGHT the driver gave him the finger. That's not a criminal offense, or 75% of the American public would be in jail. The cop should have let them go when he saw the patient in there. If he still had to pick a bone with them, he could have followed them to the hospital and stated his case there.

He misused his authority and he was nothing but a bully with a badge. Go on You Tube and you can find hundreds of videos with cops abusing their authority.

I don't hate cops, but I have no respect for them. I've seen too much in my working in emergeny rooms - cops beating patients laid out on gurneys with hand cuffs on and already injured, cops dragging people down the hallway by their hair, talking to rape victims as if they were prostitutes, cops selling marijuana to 14-year-olds, cops trading sexual favors for not issuing tickets.

Big Boy - what kind of statement is that?? The police are just doin their jobs just like everyone else. This is a very stressful job (so is that of EMS workers) and they are given a lot of latitutde in how they do it. Sometimes they mess up, sometimes they do great things .....

The big problem that cops have is that they do very little to engender sympathy. The justice system is notoriously black and white when dealing with people, not interested in why they broke the law, but how to convict. Therefore, when a cop finds themselves on the wrong end of the stick there is any wonder why there is no sympathy??

This is not the fault of the cops, but of the adversarial justice system and the focus on property crime. Too many of us have had little or no positive experiance with the police, but lots of negative. While they have virtually no interest in investigating crimes against us, they certainly have lots of time to investigate shoplifting at Walmart and Target, whatever the local banker wants, enforcing speeding, other ordinances. All the while the citizens are victims of all kinds of crime with little or no involvement. Maybe they should stop pandering to revenue generation and corporate interests and work for their employers for a while and then they will get a break ....

so you agree that affirmative action should replace military personel in our police force with sissified weaklings and illeagals. I call the cops I want someone who can protect me !!

I keep looking over this story to see if there's something I've missed. I want there to be some sort of logical, rational explanation for this guy's behavior, but I just can't find one. And to think that his attorney ... is actually saying.. "He's not an ogre... and it just wasn't registering.." is Clear proof that no matter what his intent (although that's pretty clear here also) that he is completely and utterly unqualified for the job.

Why in HELL people like this don't have even the smallest amount of class, and just step up to the plate and say: "Yep, I blew it.. and in some situations 'I'm sorry' isn't enough, so therefore, I resign."

You keep hearing stories like this.. The turd who tazered the elderly woman.. the out of control, chemically imbalanced "officer" Rivieri in Baltimore, who nearly crucified the skateboarding teenager for calling him 'Dude'... We hired these people to keep the peace not terrorize us. What is probably going to eventually happen.. is that the citizens are going to just say "Enough - this is Not what we bargained for in a free society - we bargained for the enforcement of rights, not the elimination of them..and this is now out of control. And to that end .. we're now going to get together.. and very quietly go and visit these 'heros' and deal with it ourselves." People are just plain fed up.

You keep hearing stories like this..

Hi Mr. Miller, I wonder if law enforcement abuses of power are really about the same as in the past, but with the wide-reach of the media, we just hear about them more now than in the past?

I wonder if law enforcement abuses of power are really about the same as in the past

I suspect they are actually less than in the past, but we hear about more than we used to.

I wonder if law enforcement abuses of power are really about the same as in the past, but with the wide-reach of the media, we just hear about them more now than in the past?

I was thinking something along the same lines. Kind of like how shark attacks get so much publicity every few summers, when the numbers are pretty much the same.

bigboy at what point in my statement did I ever refer to the belief of affirmative action, or relying on "weak, sissified " officers? Clearly I wrote that military trained officers that enforce their powers in a dispicable and malecious manner. I emplore you to read and comprehend before commenting.

I have wondered why all of a sudden over the past few years that police are becoming more and more violent and the only result that I can come with is that people in general are becoming more aware to their actions.

why all of a sudden over the past few years that police are becoming more and more violent...

Perhaps individuals in the communities that they serve are becoming more violent. As a result, the police use increasingly violent tactics, out of necessity, to deal with the ever more violent public. It's a vicious cycle.

This is undeniably true Zed but what of the blatant misuse of non lethal weapons and excessive force used on detained and otherwise helpless individuals. By no means am I defending the wicked violent members of society but there seems to be a failure on the use of force amoung law enforcement officers. I can think of many recent instantances where excessive and retalitory behaviour was used. what do we do about that? And I live in Chicago, where there are quit a few of these dirty power enforcing authority figures.

...excessive and retalitory [sic] behaviour was used. what do we do about that?

Jeez, I wish I knew. The cycle of violence continues while we blog and blog...

Zed, thanks for a good question, but I just can't say for sure... I know that it sure Seems like we had a Lot more respect for Law Enforcement on the whole years ago, when I was growing up - and that you didn't hear about these kinds of things to this extent. But two things also come to mind in that:

First is: we didn't have the internet and cell-cams back then either. And secondly: people got into law enforcement as a way to make a contribution and thought of it as a public trust, rather than what it has become, which is to simply generate revenue for their respective municipality.

So again, it's just difficult to say. One thing we can say is that it's definitely something that needs fixing, and I would love to see some Class coming out of their own leadership in an effort to effeciently and functionally resolve the problem.. Oh.. say.. perhaps by holding these people accountable for their actions for starters?

Big Boy - when have the police actually been called to protect you?? how long did it take to get there?? Asking for the police to follow the rules is not making them into sissies ..... we should have 2 sets of rules - one for cops and one for the rest of us?? - so who will keep us safe from the cops?

And some officers wonder why they don't get respect from the public. Officers and citizens alike across the land should demand his removal. Make an example of him and to all other officers who go beyond the call of duty. That's what this is.

No joke, field marshall, I saw a cop do something similar recently. There was a long line of traffic at a light going east, and the cop wanted to make a left turn going east. Traffic coming west was pretty heavy, so he just put his lights and siren on, proceeded to join the east-bound traffic, turned his lights off and sat there with the rest of us.

WTF? That's definitely misuse of his lights and siren.

I do see they say that the cop returned from Iraq only a mounth or so ago.

This guy should of been kept on desk duty for at least 90 days after returning from a war zone. Talking from experience, you come back from a tour of duty in a combat zone you are highly on edge.

My nephew came back from Iraq 3 times and he never intimidated or abused anyone. He's about this cop's age and he was responsible for leading men in combat.

I don't think you should try to find excuses for this cop. He was belligerent and wanted to pick a fight, end of story. It's not as if this doesn't happen - it seems like everyday there is at least one new video of some out of control cop in the news.

These cops are just out of control. I think they need to start doubling up and stop having them work alone. If they had partners, maybe they could calm each other down or they would feel less stress.

I realize they never know what a traffic stop will involve and it can be very dangerous for them, but pulling over an ambulance because you THINK the driver flipped you off is beyond the pale.

Well, you also have to remember this was one incident out of tens of thousands of traffic stops that happens every month.

While this particular trooper crosses the line, 99.99% of the time these guys are respectful and handle difficult situations without breaking a sweat.

True, cipher, although I'm pretty sure a good number of incidents like these go unreported because some people simply fear making waves.

Ambulances often don't use the sirens or lights with a suspected heart attack because it's stressful to the patient.

Good point, Tracey. I smell a lawsuit....

Ambulances often don't use the sirens or lights with a suspected heart attack because it's stressful to the patient.

Don't know where you got that bit of mis-information, but I used to drive an ambulance...If paramedics are transporting a potentially critically ill patient who needs immediate medical attention, and it is in the best interest of the patient that the patient gets to the hospital as quickly as possible, the ambulance does use the sirens and lights. They are required to do so by law.

I've been in an ambulance as the patient for a suspected heart attack. I was already freaked out enough that I was being put in an ambulance. Not hearing sirens was actually calming to me. I later asked why no sirens and the explanation I was given was that it's stressful to certain patients.

I've been in an ambulance as the patient for a suspected heart attack...

You evidently were not critically ill and getting you to the hospital as quickly as possible was not deemed necessary. Perhaps it was clear to the paramedics that you were having simply having a panic attack and not an actual coronary event.

The siren and lights are a signal to other drivers and law enforcement that there is a critical situation on board the ambulance. This allows the ambulance driver to take certain measured liberties on the road, such as carefully and responsibly going through red traffic lights. If the lights aren't on and the siren isn't blasting, it's not a critical event and the driver of the ambulance is required to observe the usual laws of the road.

They only turn the sirens on when they are at an intersection or there is traffic ahead of them that needs to be cleared away quickly. However, they MOST DEFINITELY MUST have their emergency lights on if they are traveling above the speed limit.

The article lacks details. Why was the ambulance operating without lights and sirens, and why would they pull over instead of handling this on the radio?

I wonder if a family members of yours, was in the back of the ambulance, would you feel the same. Hard to say what action, anybody would take, not being in that situation at that time.

Why was the ambulance operating without lights and sirens...

By definition, if they were operating without lights and siren, the situation of the patient in the back of the ambulance was not critical.

I wonder if a family members of yours, was in the back of the ambulance, would you feel the same.

Ummn, yeah I would. I'm human. I care about other people. If my family member was not critically ill (as this patient was evidently not), I would be perturbed by the situation, just as if I were the passenger in a taxi that was pulled over by law enforcement. But, I would focus my anger on the individual who caused the delay in my journey (ie, the paramedic or the taxi driver who broke the law).

I'm just saying the article fails to tell why.

I'm just saying the article fails to tell why.

You are correct. The article does not explicitly state why the ambulance lights and siren were not on. But, based on usual practice, the reason the lights and siren were not on was that the patient in the back of the ambulance was not critical.

Zed-7, have you even bothered to watch the video of this incident?  Here is the full 8-minute recording of it...if you still think it was the paramedic that was out of line here...you're an OK state trooper...

...even bothered to watch the video of this incident...

Yes, indeed I watched it. And I agree that the state trooper's actions were bizarre. But, unfortunately, the ambulance did not have its lights and siren on and would therefore be subject to the normal rules of the road.

The state trooper did have his lights and siren on. Therefore, the ambulance should have yielded to the trooper.

Yielded how...by smashing into the car parked on the shoulder he swerved around? Are you kidding me? He pulled over right after he got past the car on the shoulder, how else could he possibly have better complied with the situation? This cop CAME BACK to hunt down this ambulance....I can't understand your desire to rationalize his behavior...

Zed-7
Therefore, the ambulance should have yielded to the trooper.

The ambulance did yield after it had completed passing the white car.

your desire to rationalize his behavior...

I'm not sure the dash cam gives a fully accurate depiction of the events. And, I'm not trying to rationalize the trooper's behavior, I'm just trying to see both sides.

No Zed, you're not trying to see both sides....if one reads your comments chronologically...its quite evident that you are doing your best to absolve or excuse the behavior of this officer. And I'm curious why...do you know the man? Or are you a law enforcement officer trying to smooth over what is clearly an egregious case of power-tripping?

I'm not calling you out in any hostile fashion, I am really simply curious as to what your rationale is in defending this incident. I'm not one of those who automatically hates on cops, as I've personally known good ones. What I am is one of those who can't understand why good cops cover up for bad ones, automatically and without thought. Its utterly stupid, and counter-productive to what they are supposed to stand for...isn't it?

And I'm curious why...do you know the man? Or are you a law enforcement officer trying to smooth over...

Jeez, you seem really paranoid about this. No, I don't know this officer. No, I'm not from Oklahoma. No, I'm not in law enforcement. No, none of my family members are in law enforcement. No, I'm not trying to cover up for bad behavior.

I just don't think the situation is as black and white as you seem to believe it is. Let's just get the facts when they come out during the trial and then revisit this issue then.

Regardless of whether the lights were on, once the trooper saw that there was a patient in transport, he should have backed off.

...once the trooper saw that there was a patient in transport, he should have backed off.

He tried. The paramedic supervisor who came out of the back of the ambulance wouldn't allow the trooper to back off.

Zed-7 says "I'm not sure the dash cam gives a fully accurate depiction of the events" WTF?? it's LIVE video a$$hat, how can it not give a fully accurate depiction?---also, if you go to youtube and watch it, the guy with the cell phone camera's video is there also--watch it.

Zed,

I don't know where you live, but I've never heard of that "law." I wasn't aware that there was a law anywhere at all about ambulance sirens and lights. Some local communities have ordinances regulating ambulance sirens, such as turning them off within 200 feet of a hospital, etc. There are many critically ill patients who are transported without the siren, lights only, or with siren and lights.

Generally, this type of thing is a protocol set up by the local medical community.

This is not a "power trip". That EMT in the back of the cab is a total idiot. You don't argue with a police officer when he pulls you over. You MOST DEFINITELY do not scuffle with him after he tells you that you are under arrest. It troubles me that they let any poorly educated person who lacks the common sense to follow the law and common politeness and decency, to be a paramedic.

The only one who should be fired here is the incompetent, mentally unstable paramedic.

ModBob

This is not a "power trip". That EMT in the back of the cab is a total idiot. You don't argue with a police officer when he pulls you over. You MOST DEFINITELY do not scuffle with him after he tells you that you are under arrest. It troubles me that they let any poorly educated person who lacks the common sense to follow the law and common politeness and decency, to be a paramedic.

The only one who should be fired here is the incompetent, mentally unstable paramedic.

YOU need to go back and watch the FULL video. The EMT in the back was the onboard supervisor and he stepped forward to talk with the officer when the officer decided to start cussing at him. The EMT acted in the most professional manner. The officer was completely out of line. If you watch the entire dashcam video you or anyone else can see that the ambulance did yield the right-of-way after it had safely passed the white car, you can see the breaklights come on and the ambulance moved as far to the right as the road (a shoulderless 2-lane) would allow.

ModBob,

I understand your concerns about letting uneducated people get responsible jobs - that's exactly how most of the American public feel about the police.

Do you have any idea how much training paramedics have to undergo? It's not a job that most cops could do, and it certainly is not a job for an idiot.

In retort, police have to undergo more training then EMT's. I should know, I am one. My husband is a police officer, and I wouldn't trade my job, or the hell of the training HE had to go through, for his if you paid me a million bucks. And it IS a job most cops, especially state troopers, can do. State troopers are generally the first to respond to accidents on the open road, so many go through basic EMT training so they'll be able to handle such situations. Up to this point most commenter’s have made a common mistake; they've bunched ALL cops and ALL EMT's into two separate categories. The fact is there are good cops and bad cops, just as there are good EMT's and bad EMT's. After watching this video, it appears to me that this is a case with the latter of both. I'm appalled at the way that BOTH handled it, and if they BOTH would've followed protocol, this situation would've turned out very differently.

Suppose the person in the ambulance had gotten more ill, or died...

The officer would never have pulled the ambulance over if the ambulance's lights and siren were on. Since they were not, the officer knew that the patient's condition was not critical. Consequently, the driver of the ambulance should have been obeying the usual rules of the road.

zed: It doesn't matter. I have had to use an ambulance service to transport a critically ill person. I would have been furious to have the trip delayed no matter what. It is not the cop's call to decide who is critical or what the person's medical condition is.

I would have been furious to have the trip delayed...

Then, you should aim your fury at the individual who caused the delay, the paramedic who was driving the ambulance and who broke the law.

It is not the cop's call to decide who is critical...

No, it's the paramedic's job. If the patient was critical, the paramedic should have had the lights and siren on.

It's a good thing you aren't a paramedic anymore, Zed. I wonder how many people died on your watch? Sure, you'll say none, but with your odd disregard for patients, I will NOT believe you.

I wonder how many people died on your watch? Sure, you'll say none, but with your odd disregard for patients...

Mr. Boons: I'm just trying to inject some rationality into to this discussion and help people understand the laws as they relate to emergency response vehicles. I have the highest regard for patients and the sanctity of human life. I'm also aware that paramedics have a responsibility to observe the same laws as everyone else. If the patient was put at risk, it was the paramedic who caused that situation by either, a) not turning on his lights and siren appropriately, or b) not yielding to another emergency response vehicle who did, in fact, have his lights and siren engaged.

Please stay focused on the facts and stop making inappropriate, unsubstantiated value judgements about fellow Newsviners.

I hope the cop gets shot or hurt and thats the paramedic that rescues him that @!$%# would eat at him.

What? Are you serious? You really hope that a law enforcement officer gets injured in the line of duty? Bob, you should retract that comment immediately. First, it could get you arrested. Second, it's offensive and barbaric. Troopers and other law enforcement officials put their lives on the line every day to keep us safe. We should thank them, not wish bad things their way.

I work for the IRS so no one ever would arrest me..... But you are correct I retract my prior statement I did not mean to wish harm upon the officer. I just would the officer to be in a cituation whatever that may be in which he needs the services of the sed EMT officer.

Since they were not, the officer knew that the patient's condition was not critical.

But their condition could go bad very quickly - that's why they're in an ambulance, not a regular transport. They're frail, on oxygen, ill, etc. Their stability during a transportation is not a given. Their survival of a stop is not either.

Risky move the cop took. Good thing nobody died. Well, his reputation died. And good riddance.

Risky move the cop took. Good thing nobody died.

Yeah Kim, good thing nobody died. Good thing no civilian died because the officer was unable to get to the scene of a hostage situation due to the fact that he was held up by a vehicle failing to yield to his emergency vehicle.

Why don't we try to look at the other side of the issue? There could have been a life and death situation that the officer was on his way to try to resolve. Certainly, the health of the patient in the back of the ambulance is important. But, maybe there were other lives at stake too.

Zed - Good point about the potential dangers at the other scene. But - if it was so important for the cop to get there, that a few seconds delay would make a huge difference, the cop could have passed the ambulance in the other lane. There was a regular passing lane there, with a flat stretch of road and high visibility, and no oncoming cars.

Yes, I know that vehicles are supposed to get to the shoulder so emergency vehicles can pass up the middle, but no one can possibly say the cop was stuck behind the ambulance. The ambulance did move to the side, in a way that it was able to get out of the way while still maintaining its own speed.

I work for the IRS

I just would the officer to be in a cituation

Well that typifies a lot about our government employees...

...the cop could have passed the ambulance in the other lane. There was a regular passing lane there, with a flat stretch of road and high visibility, and no oncoming cars.

Alk: Take another look at the video. When the trooper pulled up behind the ambulance there was a yellow line on both sides of the road (FYI, that means no passing). Only when the ambulance finally pulled over a bit was there open road with no yellow line. That's when the trooper was able to get around the ambulance.

Zed,

Police don't keep us safe. Police show up after a crime or an accident and they write up tickets and reports and sometimes direct traffic or keep bystanders back a designated number of feet. 90% of the time, none of criminals are caught. If I was successful at only 10% of my job, I would be gone.

I have to say one thing for you - you are absolutely consistent and there is no interfering with your line of thought.

I agree with Bob - At this point the 'officer' would no longer a public servant in the line of duty - but a raging put bull who's raped the public trust and must be dealt with accordingly.

It's time for his early retirement.

He should be rewarded with early retirement for alleged bad behavior? How does that make sense?

It doesn't make sense. He ought to be fired outright. No pay, no severance, no pension.

Conservative you are not conservative do you know what kind of pension some of those guys are getting you want him to retire early? Didnt you see the police office on the cover of forbes with a million bucks from his early retirement package.

when the trooper came behind them RUNNING LIGHTS AND SIRENS, they are BOUND BY LAW to pull to the side. Because they neglected to do so, they neglected to follow policy,

FINALLY, the voice of knowledge and reason. Thanks Shawnee for educating everyone on this issue. Your review of the chain of events and the implications of the actions taken by the various parties was extremely insightful.

Hopefully, now folks on this thread will stop speculating and pontificating with great indignation on stuff they know nothing about.

and cops CAN'T AFFORD to trust you.

if he's wrong for arresting you, he'll pay for it, trust me.

Listen to yourself. You are the voice of subjugation. This was written entirely to serve the side of law enforcement, whether it be in error or not. This attitude is the true threat to freedom from those tasked with enforcing the law.

Extreme,

Listen to YOUR self. Do you know how naive you sound? Whether you would like to admit it or not, there are bad people out there that do truly horrendous things, like shoot cops in the face when they get pulled over by them. Trust me, we live in one of the most dangerous cities in the nation. The two most dangerous parts of the job cops do are domestic disputes and traffic stops. You have never had to deal with the horrors that accompany either, as you are not an officer, so I don't expect you to understand. This attitude isn't a threat to freedom, it's what good officers are, and should be, taught at Police Academy to stay alive; (and our academy is the toughest, and best, in the nation I might add) be courteous to all, trust none. ANYONE is capable of being the one that will catch you off guard. My husband responded to a domestic dispute, and while he was dealing with the drunk man who had just beaten his girlfriend, it was the girlfriend who suddenly tried to pull my husbands gun from his holster to shoot him. There are gangs in some cities whose initiation for new members is to kill a cop with his own gun. It's when cops let their guard down, and don't follow protocol, that bad things happen to them. I demand my husband comes home to me alive so he can help me raise his two small children. So, he damn well better make sure he doesn't give any one the opportunity to get the drop on him. Hence, cops can't afford to trust you. They want to live too, you know.

As for my other comment, the constitution DEMANDS cops must have reasonable articulable suspicion, and/or probable cause to make an arrest. If they don't, it's called unlawful arrest, for which you can sue them, and as a result they can lose their job.

If I'm the voice of subjugation, then does that make you the voice representing those that will NEVER have ANY thing good to say about law enforcement simply because of the nature of their job? Because there are bad people in the world that do bad things to good people, we need cops. You can hate them for the necessity of their profession. That's your choice. But frankly, I'd rather say thank you for making me a little safer at night.

Frankly, I don't know how my comment served law enforcement, I bagged on the cop the whole way through it. I said, he handled it wrong. Multiple times. BUT so did the EMT. And essentially, the cop IS the law enforcement officer, and the EMT BROKE THE LAW. Multiple times. What part of that is so hard for you to understand?

when the trooper came behind them RUNNING LIGHTS AND SIRENS, they are BOUND BY LAW to pull to the side. Because they neglected to do so, they neglected to follow policy,

Maybe, maybe not. But irreverent. THEY DID STOP.

When the officer was informed there was a patient on board, that needed to get the hospital he should of of gotten in front of the ambulance and personally escorted it to the hospital.

As for the theory, Maybe the cop was on his way to a hostage situation? Guess the hostages are dead. Because the cop decided to defend his authority rather then continue with the call he was originally assigned.

My God! all those poor dead hostages. :(

No OM, they didn't until he waved them over AFTER he went around them the first time. (that's the first law they broke, AND the first time they ignored THEIR protocol.) Thing is, by law he didn't have to get in front of them and escort them to the hospital. Nor did he need to. They have lights and sirens for a reason, if they needed them, they would have used them. He's a state trooper, which is a totally different thing than a cop. He was responding to back up the police officers that already had it under control. No dead hostages. Sorry to disappoint. How many times do I need to repeat that THE COP HAD A CHIP ON HIS SHOULDER, AND THAT IS WHERE HE WENT WRONG! Sheesh people! Just because the cop had a piss poor attitude doesn't mean the EMT's didn't break the law. This is not complicated to break down. Watch the video again from the angle of the law rather than from defense of the EMT and you will see where both screwed up.

Watch the video again from the angle of the law rather than from defense of the EMT...

Oh. You mean, see things the RIGHT way...like you do. The problem Shawnee, is that being married to a cop...you can't envision them as anything but good guys. Just like your husband, and all his buddies that come over for BBQ. And many, if not most of them are exactly that...good guys.

But law enforcement is the single most dangerous occupation not for officers...but for public freedoms and safety. After all, they are the law...and when they automatically cover for each other, we regular citizens are in a perilous situation. Because the bad cops will have little to stop them....much like you see in this video. You excuse his behavior as a chip on his shoulder, "sheesh people." Like it is silly for this to be a concern. I doubt you'll understand why most of the public finds these kind of police anything but a silly concern.

He's a state trooper, which is a totally different thing than a cop

Ha Ha Ha

He was responding to back up the police officers that already had it under control

Then why was he was responding to back them up? Or is it, you just pulled that out of your ass?

I don't deny there was fault on both sides. But lets look at the motivation of each party,

EMT, Hey, we are trying to save a life.

COP, Nobody gives me the bird!

Now, you want to know who don't get it? Look in the mirror.

What part of that is so hard for you to understand?

Shawnee, your points are all valid and clearly articulated. Some folks apparently have such deeply held prejudices that they are unable to allow themselves to see both sides of a situation. Even when confronted with facts, they hang on to their irrational thinking at any cost.

My parents told me about Mr. Common Sense early in my life and told me I would do well to call on him when making decisions. It seems he was always around in my early years but less and less as time passed by. Today I read his obituary. Please join me in a moment of silence in remembrance, for Common Sense had served us all so well for so many generations.

Obituary
Common Sense

Today we mourn the passing of a beloved old friend, Common Sense, who has been with us for many years. No one knows for sure how old he was since his birth records were long ago lost in bureaucratic red tape. He will be remembered as having cultivated such valuable lessons as knowing when to come in out of the rain, why the early bird gets the worm, life isn't always fair, and maybe it was my fault.
Common Sense lived by simple, sound financial policies (don't spend more than you earn) and reliable parenting strategies (adults, not children are in charge). His health began to deteriorate rapidly when well intentioned but overbearing regulations were set in place. Reports of a six-year-old boy charged with sexual harassment for kissing a classmate; teens suspended from school for using mouthwash after lunch; and a teacher fired for reprimanding an unruly student, only worsened his condition.

Common Sense lost ground when parents attacked teachers for doing the job they themselves failed to do in disciplining their unruly children. It declined even further when schools were required to get parental consent to administer Aspirin, sun lotion or a sticky plaster to a student, but could not inform the parents when a student became pregnant and wanted to have an abortion. Common Sense lost the will to live as the Ten Commandments became contraband; churches became businesses; and criminals received better treatment than their victims. Common Sense took a beating when you couldn't defend yourself from a burglar in your own home and the burglar can sue you for assault. Common Sense finally gave up the will to live, after a woman failed to realize that a steaming cup of coffee was hot. She spilled a little in her lap, and was promptly awarded a huge settlement. Common Sense was preceded in death by his parents, Truth and Trust; his wife, Discretion; his daughter, Responsibility; and his son, Reason. He is survived by three stepbrothers; I Know my Rights, Someone Else is to Blame, and I'm a Victim.
Not many attended his funeral because so few realized he was gone. If you still remember him, pass this on. If not, join the majority and do nothing.

Author unknown

My parents told me about Mr. Common Sense early in my life...

Good read MTP. I was wondering where common sense had gone relative to this case. I'm glad you, at least, agree with the common sense facts as Shawnee laid them out.

Thank you zed and mt promises. You're right, most don't choose to employ brain before engaging mouth, er, fingers these days.

EM, the SHEESH was in MY defense, not the cops. AGAIN I WILL REPEAT MYSELF, and maybe I'll do it in a language you'll understand.... ahem....THE COP WAS A JACKASS AND HE WAS WRONG TOO!!!!! BUT THE EMT AIN'T AN INNOCENT VICTIM OF THE COPS PIGHEADEDNESS! IF THEY BOTH WOULD'VE FOLLOWED PROTOCOL, THIS WOULDN'T HAVE HAPPENED. Do I need to say it any clearer for you to understand. I'm not defending the cop, I'm just not going to bat for the EMT.

As far as your argument that the job police officers have only being dangerous to the general populace, why don't you, in your infinite wisdom and goodness, become an officer? There will be no danger to YOU whatsoever, and perhaps you could come out and teach us all a thing or two? And please, don't talk at me as if you know me. For your information, I don't own a BBQ. I guess that blows your theory out of the water then, doesn't it?

Thank you Sean. Yes, you've got it right on. Actually, the SECOND the EMT's opened the doors, they pushed the officers "this isn't safe for me" button. Officers here are trained that if, while approaching a vehicle, the door opens at all, they stop, draw, and one by one call the occupants of the vehicle back to their cruiser, thus treating it like a high risk stop. That's why I said, when you get pulled over, don't open your doors unless the officer tells you to get out. It's for your safety as well as theirs. And watching that made my stomach churn because if just ONE of those people had a knife or a gun, the whole thing could have escalated into something FAR more ugly, putting the EMT's, the patient, and everyone else in eminent danger. Not good. Not good at all....

this isn't safe for me" button

Bull @!$%#.

It was an EMT comming out of the back of an ambulance.

Not some hippie falling out of the back of Cheic and Chong's party van.

Sorry mac, but you're wrong. I don't expect you to understand, since you write as if you're the hippie that's fallen out of the CHEECH and Chong party van. I'm sure Cheech Marin would appriciate it if you'd at least spell his name right.

I saw the complete 8 minute video and posted it someplace else the other day. I did not see the EMT attacking anyone, and certianly not in any surprising way. He was direct, but respectful - he called the officer "sir" and said "you can arrest me at the "hospital." AngelaP, I know that you and others are trying to be understanding of this combat veteran, which is good, but I think you might view the situation a little differently if it had been your neck he had clamped a lock on like that. I am glad the Trooper is on leave. If he is allowed back to work, IMO it should be a desk job while he receives counselling.

Carloz,

Well said.

Of course the pigs attorney will get in the spotlight and explain how his saint client did no wrong.Thats his filthy job and the police union is paying this bung hole to say what they want him to say.

Bottom line:Ass hole cop detains ambulance driver with patient in the back.Ass hole cop believes he has the right to choke and assault ambulance driver because he wears the badge of disgust.

Police have always had a high suicide rate, high divorce rate, and high beating the wife/girlfriend/kids rate.

Yes, they do think they are untouchable because in many ways they are. They also begin to think they ARE the law, instead of just officers of the law. They cover for each other, and like doctors, won't rat each other out, so anyone reporting abuse by a cop is going to get stonewalled. It's better now than in the past, but it's still difficult to do.

1. That is only if they were at the scene, not on the road. Whereas the ambulance WASN'T running lights and sirens, they were required to follow the laws of the road as if they were any other vehicle. That is where they erred.

GL,

Laws differ from state to state. I don't know what they are where you live, as I don't know where you live. But I can tell you what they are here. If an ambulance isn't running lights and sirens, they are required to follow the laws of the road. If they neglect to do so, they can be pulled over, REGARDLESS of whether or not they have a patient in the back. Perhaps you should read the rest of my posts before you jump to the conclusion that I'm defending the guy. I'm just not defending the EMT.....