Under Senate health care plan, either way you pay

The legislation would exempt certain hardship cases from fines, which would be collected through the income tax system

We can expect the gaming of the system. and a rise in hardship cases. We can hope that this hits only a small part of the population. Seniors have a way to manage costs. Welfare and immigrants fall under a plan. Those with employer plans are covered. The family of 5 making under 75,000 without health care, will need some affordable plan. I emphasize affordable. $5000 not $12000. If we are required to have car insurance then why not some form of health care insurance. If and when the economy improves this will improve too. How does a government chase down the tax evaders who sta off the grid. I suppose the hospitals keep all record private. What happens when a person without health care is in an auto accident, receives care, but has no insurance? Will the hospital be required to turn them in? Health care costs must be brought into alignment with the reality of the average person's wages.

Senate aides said the penalties would be modeled on the approach taken by Massachusetts, which now imposes a fine of about $1,000 a year on individuals who refuse to get coverage.

Just 26% of Massachusetts voters rate that state’s health care reform a success while 37% say it’s been a failure. Only 10% say it’s improved the quality of health care.

The federal government already @!$%#ed up this country more than enough putting us in an 11.5 trillion dollar debt, adding 4 billion a day alone in interest! Not Obama wants to "require" we all get health insurance coverage. Well it's none of the governments business to interfere with my private life, unless we all intend to shred then Constitution and live like under King George of England before our Independence!

“I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them.”
Thomas Jefferson

Is this he program that told a women who needed a risky cancer treatment she could not have it because it was not covered but they would pay for assisted suicide which was covered?

The feds have the statistics. How much the non paying customers cost health care. They receive health care, the doctor and hospital write it off as a loss. So, if there is a way to get tax paying, people, who hoard their money to participate as some level, it sounds good to me.

This does not even consider the non citizen and welfare group.

We need solutions not blame.

Senate aides said the penalties would be modeled on the approach taken by Massachusetts, which now imposes a fine of about $1,000 a year on individuals who refuse to get coverage. Under the federal legislation, families would pay higher penalties than individuals.

If healthcare is a right than why am I forced to get it? Gun ownership is a right but I'm not forced to join the NRA or go get "gun insurance." How about free speech? Do Americans need to pay for this as well? Please explain how a supposed right that is healthcare means that I am now coerced to acquire this right or face a penatly. How about my right to be uninsured, as foolish as this is. It appears as though healthcare is MANDATORY under federal law and not a right like it has been advertised.

What scares me is the way things add up to a really high total but they can set it up so that if you do not connect the dots, you do not see the whole picture"

The Congressional Budget Office, in an analysis released Thursday evening, put the net cost of the proposal at $597 billion over 10 years, down from $1 trillion two weeks ago. Coverage expansions worth $645 billion would be partly offset by savings of $48 billion, the estimate said.

And that sounds soo good where they state they have reduced it from the original 1 trillion projected cost=-- unless you read further

However, the total cost of legislation will rise considerably once provisions are added to subsidize health insurance for the poor through Medicaid. Those additions, needed to ensure coverage for nearly all U.S. residents, are being handled by a separate panel, the Senate Finance Committee. Bipartisan talks on the Finance panel aim to hold the overall price tag to $1 trillion.

I would not be surprised at all if the two groups spent 1 trillion each so the total is 2 trillion- but of course it will not be publicized that way.

You know what the single biggest expense is, the biggest expense that slams the family budget and makes those little luxuries like health insurance and college for the kids much harder to swing for almost everyone? It is the unaffordable government. Government takes more than half my paycheck by the time I pay for all its layers, with the federal government by far the most expensive and unaffordable. Obama should call for a summit meeting with the heads of government and demand some reductions and cooperation to make it affordable. The middle class is being decimated by the cost of government. Businesses are being decimated by the cost of government. American business is non-competitive due to unaffordable government.

Anyone who believes that requiring insurance is going to make it cheaper is dumber than a box of rocks.

Adding the profit and overhead of insurance to the obscenely high cost of health care is NOT going to make it cost less.

The article says that the 36 billion in fines they expect to collect is going to pay for half of the cost of health care for those that can't afford it. My BS alarm is getting louder.

Individual coverage averages almost $5000.00 a year. My car insurance for one year is $600.00. Perhaps if the plan could get health care coverages for a similar bite out of my budget I could afford it. As it is, $5K a year is more than 25% of my yearly income. My car insurance is 3.5% of my yearly income. I can afford mandated car insurance: I cannot afford health care as it stands now, and I can't get medicaid since I earn "too much money"!! This dilemma will be interesting to watch.

It's pretty much a given that the professional politicians we've elected and the lobbyists will figure out a way to bend us over while telling us how much they're helping.

Vote the bums out. Enact term limits. Totally ban lobbyists. Ban any campaign contributions exect individual. Ban all political advertising except what the candidates pay for.

And if you refuse to pay the fine for having no coverage, you get thrown in jail where you have free health care (and free cable, housing clothing..........).

how could anyone not see that coming?

LOL

What I'm most surprised at is the people who seemed shocked that this is turning out badly and costly. Get penalized if you dont want government helthcare? holy hell - beat us unil we're happy, sir...

The Pied Piper of Hamlin has no tune Shawn. This is a variation on what McCain suggested last autumn. But then again, President Wonderboy was running then.

This is a variation on what McCain suggested last autumn

So that makes it right? Try thinking about what you are doing before you do it. Not just push it thru to make you look good. Show us how it's going to be paid for and what we are getting and how it's going to work . Then let the tax payer vote on if it is acceptable. That way the no one can buy the vote as they are doing now with congress.

TANSTAFFL.

lol - true!

So that makes it right? Try thinking about what you are doing before you do it. Not just push it thru to make you look good. Show us how it's going to be paid for and what we are getting and how it's going to work . Then let the tax payer vote on if it is acceptable. That way the no one can buy the vote as they are doing now with congress.

That's just it.... the order of events was designed to have mass appeal to a consumer / instant society. It's like they consulted with Billy Mayes "BAM!" to get the red out with that little "time lapse" disclaimer written in swahili and spoken by John Moschitta Jr. (the fast talking dude from the old Micro-Machines commercials)... and people believe what they hear and see - stains being washed away in seconds... couple that with lofty goals and vauge promises phrased with terms like "shovel ready" and a growing group of believers / apologists and you end up with overwhelming power backed by clueless dolts. It's the perfect ingredient for instant Congressional power. the only problem is that they go too greedy and put themselves in a spot where there's not enough Republicans to challenge them, so the blame inthe coming years can and will most likely fall squarely on the Democrats. The ones that do 'attempt' (and I use that term loosely) to coup and do the 'right thing' get branded as partisan traitors and will be seen as the ones being divisive, a label that was going to be reserved for Republicans would they have the ability to filibuster (which they don't).

I think in 2012 we'll see a campaign run in the same style that Obama ran his but with Republicans, while Democrats will drudge up up Bush legacy blunders that Obama couldn't fix while hiding the @!$%# ups and irresponsible and unresponsiveness of the Democratic party. I think that the immigration issue will be held off until 2012 and in the meantime the adminstration will wok towards skirting it, or appeasing it to a point where there is no option BUT amnesty. In short, the whole Democratic campaign in 2012 will be "we stared SOME change, but in order for me to keep my word you'll have to keep me here for 4 more years". I live for the day James Carvalle eats his words about the Democrats seeing the dawn od 40 more years of staying power and the death of Conservative Republicans (mainly becuase he actually does know what the hell he's talking about most of the time)

So the penalty is a bit like what happens if you do not carry car insurance- you get a fine. Sounds fair- opps don't they repossess your car or impound your car if you continue to violate the law? so first a fine , then a hand , a leg , a heart?

Ouch!

the poor and some middle-class families would qualify for government subsidies to help with the cost of coverage

So far as I understand it, with respect to auto insurance this type of thing doesn't apply - you just don't get to drive...or you go to jail if you're caught.

SO, it's the "same", except I'll pay for that for you as well (in addition to your mortgage, etc. etc. etc.)

and this doesn't even begin to approach the subject of once we all 'get' this healthcare plan - sure we can get covered, but once we have it how much care and concern are we given on an individual basis with so many new people flooding the system and using it. We'd need to inject a lot more care providers simultaneously and stream line the existing system and how they processed us...yet no talk about that -theyr'e only talking the money end of it... BIG surprise.

How many doctors do you think are going to stay in practice when the government controls their pay. How many good doctors are going to retire earlier...And what are you going to do when you have to go to a doctor and there is not any. Look at Canada prefect example, you have to wait months to see a doctor. You could be dead by then.

What good is a heath plan if you don't have a way to get treated...But you have paid thousands to have that pillage. This will not fix the problem it will make it worse as have everything the government has put their hand on..

ebookout

How many doctors do you think are going to stay in practice when the government controls their pay. How many good doctors are going to retire earlier...And what are you going to do when you have to go to a doctor and there is not any. Look at Canada prefect example, you have to wait months to see a doctor. You could be dead by then.

What good is a heath plan if you don't have a way to get treated...But you have paid thousands to have that pillage. This will not fix the problem it will make it worse as have everything the government has put their hand on..

That's a blatant lie!!! Ask any canadian about their healthcare and how they feel about it. Then do some research and you'll find canadians are healthier, live longer and have a lower infant mortality rate than americans. And that's true of "every" free industrialized country with a national health care system like England, France, etc. etc. Almost half the bankruptcy's in our country are illness related. These lies, and scare tactics worked in the past and should work now if you consider our world ranking in education! Of which I'm sure your a victim!

William Root

I know a lot of Canadians do you. They come to America for all their major health care because it is better. You need to do the research and stop working for Acorn. They wait month to see a GP. The same is for France and England. So stop reading the proprogana they are feeding you and study a little more...

William

In 2003, more than 1.2 million Canadians were unable to find a regular physician, according to Statistics Canada.

Canada also had many fewer physicians per capita in 2002 than most other developed countries with universal health-care insurance programs, a 2005 report by the institute said.

"Without a significant addition of foreign-trained doctors, the Canadian physician-to-population ratio will decline between now and 2015, just as it would have through the 1990s if foreign physicians had not been used to 'top up' the shortfall caused by insufficient medical school admissions," the report said.

"It is irresponsible for a wealthy, developed nation with a highly educated population to rely on international medical graduates to deliver health care to the population."

The report's estimates of the new doctors needed to maintain Canada's number of physicians per capita takes into account:

• Increases in the number of medical school admissions over the last five years.
• The need to replace doctors who die, retire or emigrate.
• An assumption that the country's population will continue to increase at its average growth rate since 1990.

Doctors could employ international medical graduates, as well as nurses and nurse practitioners, to expand the volume of service delivered, at the physician's discretion, the report suggested.

Relying on foreign-trained doctors is negatively affecting the supply of physicians in lower-income countries such as South Africa and India, a 2005 study in the New England Journal of Medicine found.

Doctors near retirement should also be allowed to continue practising after age 65 to increase the supply,.

So what is this telling you about doctor unavailability.

That's a blatant lie!!! Ask any canadian about their healthcare and how they feel about it.

I have. I have a really good friend who immigrated with his family FROM Canada... mainly for the better healthcare over here...

Then do some research and you'll find canadians are healthier, live longer and have a lower infant mortality rate than americans.

Look at the demographics again. While what you're saying may be true, you'll have to also factor in who is on welfare, and when the US does polls when we want to portray a 'bad' thing, like what you're claiming... we include things like illegal immigrants becuase the polls on on 'people', not 'citizens'. Another aspect is that the Canadian Parliment has a lot of laws in place that save you from yourself. I'm of the mindset that guard rails need be removed from high places and 'warning' signs removed from dangerous things that we KNOW are dangerous (like electric transformers)... if you do something stupid, you pay the price. Pay attention and use common sense and stop legislating morality and common sense - we'll see general society get smarter, stronger, and healthier.

And that's true of "every" free industrialized country with a national health care system like England, France, etc. etc. Almost half the bankruptcy's in our country are illness related.

You know what else is true - in those countries, they constaly claim that their own system requires a LOT more money than they can get from their people with out a widespread revolt. So... they get care, but substandard care. Come to think of it, in America, which is really the topic... what government run system works efficiently? Would you want healthcare (since it seems important to you) to be inefficient? Do these toher countries have the same setup that we do? If not, is implementing their entire setup for the sake of medical benifits the right things to do? If so, why then are you not French or English?

These lies, and scare tactics worked in the past and should work now if you consider our world ranking in education! Of which I'm sure your a victim!

Awesome - turn this on it's head about voters in the 2008 election... don't @!$%# to us when you find your pants around your ankles and needing governmental medical care for profuse anal bleeding. Afterall, I'm sure you're a 'stupid' victim. I mean, preventative care came one of two ways.... a really thick application of KY, or a wallet with similar thickness to your skull.

Friend of mine moved to Canukda - with a child who needed regular medication and care. Took her nearly six months just to FIND a doctor, then longer to be approved as a patient. Her kid was in a world of hurt - she said that they could BUY the kid's medical care - if they had money. (The job her husband moved there to take folded within a few weeks.) But they didn't - so tough luck charlie!

But anecdotal stories prove nothing. The simple fact that the Canadian Government has been forced to open up private care alternatives is all the testimony that's needed that their Universal Health Care isn't, and it doesn't work. And Canada has the US system as a safety valve - what happens when the US goes to single payer? Bet ya Canukda trashes their whole system and allows lots of private options to flourish.

William you are right but what Obama wants now is not the same system. My dad is from Canada and has nothing but good to say about the health care plan there. But this new information proves Obama is not interested in making sure everyone has health care, he is interested in making sure the poor who can't afford it now not only won't be able to afford it but will be fined on top of that. And good luck "getting blood out of a stone" from people like me. I can't afford health care and you think I can afford that kind of fine?

Another thing to look at when comparing death rates , etc to the US is just how homogeneous are their populations? Do they have the wide diversity that the US has? Do they have the same percentage of immigrants- legal and illegal that the US has? Or do they have fairly stagnant populations with little outside influences on them( Norway-Iceland). There are a lot of factors that go into death rates/infant mortality rates that go way beyond just the level of health care- you have to look at the population you serve and their historic health rates also.

The government's costs would be covered by a combination of higher taxes and cuts in projected Medicare and Medicaid spending.

I have to agree that those who voted for Obama are getting exactly what they wanted free stuff provided by those of us that WORK for a living. The last sentence says HIGHER TAXES. Duh people of course we are going to pay more.

I still say that if the plan is SOOOOOOOO GREAT then EACH AND EVERY MEMEBER OF THE GOVERNMENT SHOULD BE ON the SAME PLAN. Oh yeah..duh me the president said in a TV Interview (this is fact) that he would NOT put himself under the same plan as he would put you.

How is that CHANGE working out for you????

Here's a link that states we're 19th in health care. http://www.aneki.com/health.html There are a lot of others quite easy to find. What they "all" have in common are that industrialized countries with some form of national health care populations are healthier, live longer, have lower infant mortality rates, never have to file bankruptcy due to illness, etc. etc. Yet some people insist we have the best health care in the world! Do they mean if your a billionaire, or a politician? How do they come to that conclusion? It would be nice if these people who believe that would post the links to where they get what they copy and paste to their comments! I'm sure the AMA, drug corporations, HMO's, etc. all have spent billions on surveys and select the ones that support the theory we have the best health care in the world, and lose the ones that say differently! I have spoken to people who have lived in the countries in the documentry SICKO, and seen it. They said it was pretty much on the mark. I've never been a Michael Moore fan, but like to see what everyone is saying, do some research and form my own opinion. Please include links with your posted information, stories, etc.

Our health statistics aren't the best because some of the people we have here aren't the best. Infant mortality is also higher if one tries to save even the youngest premies and one doesn't abort every imperfect child. Infant mortality affects overall mortality and longevity statistics.

But facts are irrelevant when the goal is for every dollar of every citizen to flow through the government to its beneficiaries. People only exist to keep the government funded.

I still say that if the plan is SOOOOOOOO GREAT then EACH AND EVERY MEMEBER OF THE GOVERNMENT SHOULD BE ON the SAME PLAN. Oh yeah..duh me the president said in a TV Interview (this is fact) that he would NOT put himself under the same plan as he would put you.

Couldn't be stated more clearly so I had to repeat it for anyone that missed it... +1 for sure!

The 'less fortunate' (nice PC term, btw) already have our help. It's called Medicare, Medicaid, and SChips. We can lead a horse to water, but we can't make them drink.

"If we can reduce our prison populations, put more people to work, and get under age 50 folks off of the welfare roles this could help, too"

We can't reduce our prison populations because doing so will increase crime. Do you prefer increased crime to increased prison populations?

We can't "put more people to work". Most of those on welfare are there because they don't want to work. How is it that 1 million illegals can cross our border every year and find work, but those that have been in this country and on welfare for generations never can seem to find a job? The fact is that these people don't want to be "put to work". Not as long as liberals continue to insist that we not reduce their benefits because it will "hurt the children". You want everyone to work? Seal the border, kick out the illegals, reduce welfare handouts to almost nothing, and increase punishment to those caught committing crimes.

Your entire post seems like some enlightened utopian vision that's unattainable. Therein lies the difference between liberal ideology and reality.

So people with bad credit deserve to die and shouldn't get health care? And as for "putting people to work" most of the people I see who are unemployed refuse to look for work they think is "beneath" them. I don't sympathise with people crying about being out of work until they've filled out an application at the grocery store and McDonalds.

In cognito

Good point

Illegals can find work when US Citizens can't because the US Citizens have recourse to law when the employer screws them. When a company hires illegals, they can pretty much ignore things like lay-off notice time periods, workman's comp, unemployment payments, SS and Medicare payments (they usually withhold, but keep the money.)Also the employer knows that if the illegal gets busted for working in the USA, he will be free to withhold/pocket the person's last paycheck and any other money he owes the worker, and hire another without penalty. (Most illegals don't understand that they can sue the employer anyway - even though they're illegals.)

For example - I have had trouble finding jobs since I turned 40. 40 is the magic age that a person can be and file an age discrimination lawsuit if they get laid off. (When an employer is trying to save money - most of his high-dollar workers are the older people because they've been there longer.) And older people change the health insurance profile of a company and increase the cost to the employer of group health insurance.

When I was 25 I couldn't get a job because I wasn't black - and several companies I applied to told me that they were "under court order to hire blacks." Hispanics are "minorities - so they qualify as minorities - legal or not.

Illegals frequently live in houses with multiple families, or as many as 20 men "living" there. Americans don't do that as a rule. Illegals don't bother with such petty things as driver's licenses or auto insurance.

There are a lot of reasons that some employers prefer hiring illegals - and the idea that American Citizens who can't get jobs are just LAZY is total BS!

As to the comment that people should fill out an aplication at McDonalds or the grocery store - most of those positions cost more to work at then they pay. The wage structure is designed for high school kids who don'[t have mortgages to pay and high school kids to feed - and holding such VERY part time jobs keeps you from being available for full time positions should one open up.

I had a job a couple of years ago that after I pad for my car gas and lunch, it actually COST me to work there. Not a wise move. I didn't stay there long.

I heard that if you buy yourself a lawnmower, a weedeater, an edger/trimmer, and a blower, you can make at least $25 per yard, if not more. If you go door-to-door, pass out flyers, and advertise on the bulletin boards of your local grocery stores, you can build up quite a clientel list in no time. So much so that you may end up having to hire others to assist you in order to keep up with the demand.

I know my lawn guy charges $35 for my yard and makes $140/month off of me. He works alone and is in and out of there in 30 minutes. If he does 10 yards a day (5 hrs of actual work, plus drive time between jobs), 6 days a week, that's $8,400 working 24 days per month. He starts around 7am, so he can easily have 10 yards done before 3pm even after alloting for drive time and a lunch break.

Work is out there. The question is: Do you want to do it?

Nofleur,

Illegals can find work when US Citizens can't because the US Citizens have recourse to law when the employer screws them. When a company hires illegals, they can pretty much ignore things like lay-off notice time periods, workman's comp, unemployment payments, SS and Medicare payments (they usually withhold, but keep the money.)

A few years ago, a company in Washington State was hiring people to pick apples. The job paid $ 10/hr plus free transportation to and from the farms. The company wanted to make sure all of the people they hired were legal. Guess how many people showed up? ONE. And this guy quit after one day.

Also the employer knows that if the illegal gets busted for working in the USA, he will be free to withhold/pocket the person's last paycheck and any other money he owes the worker, and hire another without penalty.

Not anymore with E-Verify. An employer who hires illegals will be subject to federal and even state prosecution.

With the health insurance industry losing people because they can no longer afford it, this is a dream come true. Millions of more people on their rolls. Millions more in profit. The unhealthier will be dropped, forced into the gov't option. Then what? Not to mention the people who cannot afford any of it.

Posted this in the wrong spot. Sorry. Long day.

Dylan - this is a tough subject. Insurance rates are based on risk statistics. All citizens should receive good health care. However, it seems like society has limits. Nothing comes from nothing. Someone has to pay for this care. It seems wise to work toward less substance abuse, less high risk behavior, less mental illness, etc. I understand that the government has no business telling us how to live our lives. It just seems that if everyone receives good care, then everyone could pitch in by maintaining the best health. The inequities of life, seem to be covered when the resources are plenty, and I hope that is how this works out. The rich alcoholic, the poor alcoholic, the teenage alcoholic, and senior citizen alcoholic all deserve care it is a right and a privilege, but would it not be good to improve our nations over all health in the process. It just seems to me the human weakness to profile and cherry pick will be a big issue, unless the government makes all insurance carriers take on their fair share of the tough cases. Otherwise, we will need special funds for cancer, multiple sclerosis, ALS, long term care cases, birth defects, accidents, our vets, permanent mental illness,etc.

I know that my car insurance rates go up and down according to my home ownership, my credit rating, my accident rate, the age of my kids etc. Health insurance will probably take into consideration some of these ideas too. I personally am glad when a needy person receives the care they need regardless of the cause. But if we can fairly, humanely, and sensitively effect better health in our population, why not? Fear of being profiled should not crippled our noble efforts. Perhaps I ask too much.

Than fix it don't railroad a plan thru just to make money off the middle class. Find the problems and fix them.

The government can't fix something they know nothing about or have not even read the bill they are voting on.

We will railroad it through the corporate lobbyists. Our representatives know how to fix it. They will fix it to benefit everyday Americans, when and if, everyday Americans rise up and force them to. They will fix health care when they "fear" the people, more than the lobbyists.

Gary #6.2

Our representatives know how to fix it.

ROTFLMBO!!! They don't even READ what they're voting for!!! Yet they will be able to figure out what you need and fix it?

I believe Gary has introduced a NEW religion. Instead of worshiping at the altar of Holy Obama, he's across the reflecting pool at the Church of the Intelligent Representative!

LMBO!!!!

Gary - here's a clue - they do not now, nor will they ever again "fear" us. We're collectively stupid and we'll pretty much believe anything they say - or don't say.

Of course - electing a Congress that doesn't read the bills before they vote goes right along with voting for a president about whom we know NOTHING! Yep - the American people are really stupid - and they're voting themselves into slavery.

"A democracy is always temporary in nature; it simply cannot exist as a permanent form of government. A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover that they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates who promise the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that every democracy will finally collapse due to loose fiscal policy, which is always followed by a dictatorship."

Attributed to Alexander Tytler (1747 - 1843) and to Ben Franklin.

Rixar13

Are you one of the people who's going to pay or one who's getting it for free?

ebookout

What grade are you in anyway? I thought you were high school student...? Before I check out of this planet as I advocated in 1992 I want to see health care reform. I am one of the ones that went to work sick to feed my family always.

to think someone is not paying for this is stupid .

The system is broken man and it's time for a big fix.

it about your health and well being.And all the questions need to be answered now not latter.

Just try and empathize and just think of the stress reduction which will benefit over all health.

Rixar,

Dunno how old you are but there is so such thing as a free lunch.

Xerxes-727854

Dunno how old you are but there is so such thing as a free lunch.

Well you figure it out. I'm a Vietnam Veteran wounded and worked all my life since I was 10 years old. I have worked more by accident than some people will work their whole life.

there is so such thing as a free lunch.

Wrong! John McCain has had a free lunch his entire life...???

Rixar13

Went to college , have a degree,own my own company.Work two jobs to feed my family, Do not have insurance,And sure the hell don't want government to run it..Yes it needs to be changed but not controlled. Government can't run a peanut gallery. If they can't make medicare work why do you think they can make health care work. And what the stress bull @!$%# .. ? Life is a stress case ,that's life. So why do you think the health care Obama's is proposing will change that.? Because you think it is free...I don't want to have my kids to pay for it just so you are not stress. So you are a vet of nam so are a lot of us so what have you been doing sense ? So called free health care want solve anything but make thing worse...Unless you are one of the free riders...

ebookout

Yes it needs to be changed but not controlled.

If I understand correctly, everyone has input to take the best of what does work and change the parts that don't work....?

So why do you think the health care Obama's is proposing will change that.?

Everyone fears change but if all Americans take the politics out of it and work together we can create a model Health Care System that the would will envy. I applaud your work and life and free rider I have never been nor ever will be.

I too graduated from the University of Maine with BSBA in Business by working, student loans and pell grants.

Period!

It is not dem or repub. They are the same. The rest is for show.

Next you will be comparing Obama to Hitler.

Hitler has had enough bad press.

Next you will be comparing Obama to Hitler.

No... Chávez

Read between the lines..read on what the companies are going to pay, And how that's going to affect you.

Tappy,

I pay for my health insurance every month already. My share of my company policy comes out of my paycheck before I get it

With the Obama health care plan, you and I will see less of our paychecks directly or indirectly. "Somebody" has to pay for Obama's plan to provide health insurance to the uninsured and that "somebody" is you and me.

There is no such thing as a free lunch.

But LOOK at the MONEY they'll save!!! All it will cost them is their freedom.

You know - the first freedom listed in the Declaration of Independence is life.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

don't tell others how their hard-earned income should be spent and that they should be glad having additional "dependents".

Well said, puponguard. I wonder if Uncle Sam will allow us to write off 45 million dependents on our taxes.

Rixar13

Maybe this dysfunctional system would not be so dysfunctional if the people who could work worked and stop living off the sweat of others...

Unfortunately, somebody decided that the phrase "provide for the general welfare" meant provide for the individual welfare, which is quite often totally the opposite thing.

Vote the bums out.

I'm sick of hearing people blame one party and not the order. Both parties are nothing but a bunch of silver-spoon-fed, greedy, corrupt, immoral buffons. It hasn't always been that way but it is now. How anyone can be proud to affiliate themselves with either party any more is beyond me.

puponguard, in what way have the Reps shown themselves to be different from the Dems?

puponguard, do you really think that the doctors have done a good job of running our health care system?

snowfrost, if we reduced medical costs by 25% we'd still be paying more than any other country.

This so called "best health care system in the world" has my wife waiting for tests for 2 weeks now for something that could very well be life threatening, and we have pretty good insurance. We did get a call today to call another Dr. She called them and will get a return call, maybe even today to see how much longer the wait will be. We live in L.A. county and have at least 6 hospitals within 5 miles of us.

What's up with that?

Seems like the Doctors have the best health care system, but it doesn't appear that I do.

Who, W. Bush?

Have you not noticed that GE owns NBC and NBC is all in favor of everything Obama. Guess who is the Medical Electronic records company that is going to get all doctors and hospitals on line - GE? Who has a hand in the corporate pocket?

Becky, the truth is not told because when an illegal uses your SS number to work, the taxes are collected, but not credited to your account, because it's clearly not you. Thbey know where you live, and where the illegal lives. Why would they do anything? They have large quantities of free money to play with.

Health insurance is pretty much corporate welfare. If it was a good idea, they wouldn't sell it.

son - these days in the time of the checking, they illegal coyotes and such are taking matching names and SSNs - so when an employer checks, they'll match. Every year or two the SS administration sends you a statement of account. Look at the total earned column - if you seem to have made a LOT of money, then check in to it - you could have a lamprey on your back!

Nofluer, the amounts collected from a job you haven't reported doesn't show up on your statement, that's my point. Do some research. If you believe the federal government, I've got a couple of bridges for sale, water view, will carry contract.

The job YOU reported AND the Job the illegal reports. When the SSN and the Name match, and an employer withholds and pays in, the amounts get credited to that account. So the illegal is increasing your contributions.

SS account holders who call the SSA and report excess contributions is one of the ways that illegals are being caught at identity theft these days.

I know how the pay-in part works.

Not true. They are keeping the money the illegals contribute as a slush fund. They use the privacy rules to avoid investigating how it is that you have a job in CA and another in MI. If you live in CA, you will only be credited with your earnings in CA, they will just deposit the rest and use it to increse their little beauracratic kingdoms. SS account holders who call the SSA to attempt to report identity theft are pushed WAY back to the back burner.

Your trust in the system shows that you are a good person, please don't take my comments as a personal attack.