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Local governments face painful choices

Wed Jul 8, 2009 6:42 PM EDT
business, only-on-msnbc-com, state, indiana, cuts, local, elkhart, governments, the-elkhart-project, compton, elkhart-county-highway-department
msnbc.com News — By John W. Schoen, Senior Producer
< PreviousNext >
showing 1 of 2 photos
<p>Elkhart, Indiana Elkhart County Department of Public services personnel Rick Easton, left, operating the Bobcat, and Jerry Hahn, right, work together to backfill a ditch with stones after installing new drainage pipes. The County has experimented with four day, ten hour, work weeks to try to reduce some costs.  Photos by John Makely/ msnbc.com</p>

Elkhart, Indiana Elkhart County Department of Public services personnel Rick Easton, left, operating the Bobcat, and Jerry Hahn, right, work together to backfill a ditch with stones after installing new drainage pipes. The County has experimented with four day, ten hour, work weeks to try to reduce some costs. Photos by John Makely/ msnbc.com

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— ELKHART, Ind. - After a long winter, this is high season for road repair, and the Elkhart County Highway Department has a busy schedule. But deep budget cuts have forced changes in that schedule to try to get the same work done with less money.

Instead of working a traditional workweek of five, eight-hour days, road crews now work four, 10-hour days. The hope is that those longer days will reduce the downtime that comes at the end of each day’s shift.

“You’ve got to secure the site — there's an hour. You’ve got to clean up — there’s an hour. And then you have to go back to the shop — there’s a half-hour,” said Rick Easton, one of the crew recently installing a new drain pipe on a county road. “So I’ve lost two and a half hours.”

It’s just one of the ways local governments across the country are coping with one of the steepest drops in tax revenues in decades, forcing them to try to maintain the same level of local services with a lot less money.

“We’re trying it this summer because we have to do something,” said Jeff Taylor, manager of the Highway Department. “There is no more money.”

It’s been almost two decades since the last time a weak housing market cut so deeply into property tax revenues, the main source of funding for many cities, towns and counties across the country. While most local finance and budget officials keep a close eye on economic forecasts, the scope and speed of the current housing collapse caught many by surprise, according to Christopher Hoene, research director at the National League of Cities.

To make matters worse, the process of updating tax assessments can take years. That means that local governments now in the throes of budget cuts can expect further cuts in coming years.

“The reality for local government is they’re probably in (fiscal year) '09 seeing the decline in property taxes in concerted fashion for the first time,” said Hoene. “That means 2010 and 2011 are likely going to be more of the same. Even if a recovery in the housing market begins right now, they’re still a couple of years away from seeing any rebound in those revenues. We’re just entering the woods.”

The problem is not limited to residential properties. A decline in commercial real estate values is also cutting into local tax bases.

“We’ve got a ton of businesses that have gone out of business and we’ve got empty buildings here that people have picked up and left or filed bankruptcy,” said Elkhart Fire Chief Mike Compton.

Other sources of revenues are also down. Local governments that rely on sales taxes have been hit by the drop in retail spending. And state governments have cut back on revenue they pass through to municipalities.

In Elkhart County, the bulk of the Highway Department's funding comes from state gasoline taxes, which have fallen as people drive less due to the recession. At the same time, the housing boom created subdivisions in unincorporated areas outside the reach of city and town governments. That’s created many more miles of new county roads to maintain.

“That new house does nothing for us in terms of new income,” said Taylor. “What it does is causes us to bring resources from somewhere else and place them in that subdivision. And now our level of services begins to drop."

So government leaders are trying to squeeze every dollar. Taylor says the shift to a four-day workweek was imposed partly to make up for several unfilled positions. But the experiment has created unexpected results. With more equipment idle on Fridays, shop mechanics — who still work five-day weeks — can get more done. But there's a downside, too. 

"When we go to four, 10-hour days and I lose a day to rain, I’ve lost 25 percent of my workweek," said Taylor.

The impact of the budget squeeze has also forced deep cuts in capital budgets, deferring maintenance and purchases of new equipment. Federal grants can help make up some of the shortfall. In Elkhart, Compton, the fire chief, was able to get a federal grant to buy a new fire engine for the airport. But he’s had to put off repairs on a leaky roof at the 30-year-old central fire station.

“During a mild rain we put out three buckets, and in a severe downpour there’s 11 of them,” he said. “The guys know just where to put them.”

Cutting operating expenses has been tougher. Maintaining and fueling fire trucks is expensive. And fire stations still have to be staffed around the clock. That means looking for dozens of little ways to cut back.

“We’ve got the guys really concentrated on — it sounds trivial — turning the lights out,” said Compton.

Instead of sending firefighters offsite for training, Compton hired a consultant to come to the department and train more people for less money.  Replacing several retired workers brought some cost savings in salaries. Lower fuel prices have helped, but those are only one-time savings.

Local governments are also feeling the squeeze from cuts in state funding.

Since the recession began in December 2007, some 39 states have cut services, according to the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities, a think tank that focuses on issues affecting lower-income Americans.

At least 22 states have cut access or raised costs of health care programs for low-income children, the elderly and disabled. At least 24 states are cutting spending on K-12 schools and early education programs. Some 32 states have cut funding for public colleges and universities, cut faculty and staff or raised tuition. And 40 states and the District of Columbia have cut staffing costs with hiring freezes, layoffs, wage cuts, and delayed pay raises.

Some local governments have tried to close budget gaps by charging usage fees for specific services. But they can be a tough sell among taxpayers who are already struggling to pay property taxes. Elkhart Mayor Dick Moore proposed charging a fee for trash collection, but the City Council didn’t go along with the idea.

While raising fees can help, it can also turn people away from the very services local governments are struggling to maintain.

“Those fees almost never make up for all the tax revenue lost, and they come with their own set of downsides,” said Hoene. “If every parks and rec program, or youth program, or every library service has a fee, or a fee that goes up, you worry about whether that service is actually getting to the people you designed it to a be a service to.”

The drop in property values comes on top of a decades-long push to slow or cap rising tax levels. In Indiana, the state legislature recently passed a law that calls for a cap on local property taxes and will force even steeper budget cuts beginning next year.

Unlike the federal government, state and local governments can’t borrow to make up for shortfalls in their operating budgets. With deep cuts already enacted and more expected over the next few years, it gets harder to find slack and boost productivity.

“I went from last year to this year cutting,” said Taylor. “You get to a point where we’ve taken an arm; now what would you like? A leg? Or another arm? Both?”

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  • Public Discussion (68)
Jump to discussion page: 1 2
Peter Couture

Hints to those in government who are just learning what the private sector knows..

1. Stop confusing the cost of "service" with your hugly bloated "overhead".

2. Example..."class sizes with have to increase due to shortages of funds.." Truth..for each teacher there is at least one administrator in the DOE...cut the administrators..keep the teacher..

3. Paid time off per year for government employess...55 weekdays. you folks are only working 3 days a week now...most of us work 5..hey..suck it up.

4. Cut your training, traveling, air fare, cars, helicoptors etc..and surprisingly enough..you will have more money.

  • 5 votes
Reply#1 - Thu Jul 9, 2009 8:15 AM EDT
MM-584706

Exactly !    Government workers have no concept what it is to survive and work in the real world.   They are so used to working 5 hours a day, 3 days a week, 40 weeks a year that they think that they are actually employed, when reality is they are on taxpayer welfare !  Immediate cuts of benefits, contributions to health care expense, change retirements to 30 years service and not start paying out until 62 years of age and that will go a long way towards solving the problem.    The average pay, benefits, etc of government workers far exceeds that of the people they are supposed to serve.    Many years ago, these cushy work conditions , hours, holidays, benefits and retirements were to compensate for meager  pay rates.  Now the pay rates have gone up above private sector for similar jobs and skills and the benefits have been increased at the same time to far greater than are available in the private sector.      Government, local, state and federal needs to wake up FAST !

 

  • 6 votes
#1.1 - Thu Jul 9, 2009 9:51 AM EDT
Flex-759618

State and local overhead is absolutely the problem. Unfortunately, in most cases all we hear about are cutting essential services like teachers, police officers and firemen. Why? The administrators and bureaucrats themselves are the cost problem that needs to be reduced. The old line tactic of scaring the proerty tax payers into mill rate and assesment increases won't work in this economic environment. The property tax bubble has burst and state and local governments will be forced to reduce property tax assessments and overhead or be voted out of office.

  • 4 votes
#1.2 - Thu Jul 9, 2009 10:14 AM EDT
schwannomin

Can't we just switch to gravel roads?

    #1.3 - Thu Jul 9, 2009 11:35 AM EDT
    Brandon-801865

    I just wanted to take this opportunity to thank Wall Street and irresponsible consumers for this mess.

    I wish that my parents had taught me not to play by the rules.

    • 2 votes
    #1.4 - Thu Jul 9, 2009 11:52 AM EDT
    angryman-1207250

    Interesting that we have not heard of "massive layoffs" in the govt. like we have in EVERY OTHER INDUSTRY IN OUR COUNTRY!

    • 2 votes
    #1.5 - Thu Jul 9, 2009 12:15 PM EDT
    Greg-1207351

    I'm one of those government workers you put in one big pile. 20 years in the Air Force, on a rare occassion I worked less than 9 hours, usually 10+ each day. Nearly 5 years with a municipality in a position that didn't get overtime, again I averaged 10+ hours a day. 6 years in two private companies same story 10+ hours a day (No OT) in a support staff position in a sales environment. Now I have 4+ years with a fire district, usually 60+ hours a week (No OT), we have very few support staff and each one works extremely hard. Then there are the 150 firefighters that respond to 12,000 fires, accidents and other calls each year. They work 24 hours a day, every holiday, on there kids birthday's, when the weather isn't fit for a dog and are there anytime you need them. In my 29 years of government work I have seen extremely hard working people, but some like you would rather spend their time finding a slacker. If you see a slacker report them, but don't judge others based on the very few.

    • 1 vote
    #1.6 - Thu Jul 9, 2009 1:45 PM EDT
    Reply
    Ret AF Pilot

    Gee, less money, something has to be cut.

    Sounds like what every person faces with their own personal financial situation, every day.

    But somehow because it's the "government" they can't cut anything!

    What a crock!

    • 4 votes
    Reply#2 - Thu Jul 9, 2009 8:54 AM EDT
    runner1-674401

    only serices, not THEIR PAY OR BENIE FITS

    • 3 votes
    #2.1 - Thu Jul 9, 2009 10:17 AM EDT
    spider-737231

    Amen, runner1!

    I stumbled upon a document showing the bureaucratic organization and payroll for the City of St Louis. Some of the salaries for clerks and such are astonishing. It clearly demonstrates why St Louis is right behind Detroit in the line of dying cities.

      #2.2 - Thu Jul 9, 2009 12:51 PM EDT
      SOS-709189

      The city workers in Paxton Illinois have now joined the Teamsters as the city council requested that the workers start picking up the cost of their own families health insurance, which has been paid by the city in the past. Unions, politicians, and fecal matter are all in the same genus species!

        #2.3 - Thu Jul 9, 2009 2:55 PM EDT
        Reply
        Disgusted-538256

        Why doesn't the Federal Government have to live within their means like the State and Local Governments - and individuals? It is ridiculous that they should be able to run up enormous deficits and we pay the interest on them. Get rid of Federal Reserve - it is not a government organization - just bunch of wealthy, elite bankers from all over the world who print money with no value and loan it to us at interest (what a deal!!!). The stimulus (tax payer money) was borrowed (from where?) and given to banks, insurance cos, auto companies - too big to fail (hmmm) for what? The economy is not going to improve until they get people back to work (JOBS). If you have no job and have no money - you are not going to need the banks or new cars etc. Also, you are not going to pay taxes and buy only absolutely necessary products (ie food etc) Our government officials and congressmen owe their souls to big business (Lobbyists) - when they make decisions, they do not care about the ordinary people out there - their priority is to saving big business and themselves. (greed and corruption abound). We need term limits so they do not have time to get corrupt. It is supposed to be government Of the people, FOR the people, BY the people. What happened?

        • 1 vote
        Reply#3 - Thu Jul 9, 2009 9:24 AM EDT
        MicSavvy

        They keep saying "essential services" have to be cut? WTF? Why? You mean you don't even generate enough money for essential services? Are there non-essential services still receiving funds? I mean if I'm running a little lean for the month I cut out entertainment expenses to pay the lights, gas, and mortgage. So my essentials are paid but the rest can suck it. Maybe try focusing a little more on essential services... whatever those are and everything else can suck it. On a side note it's funny that cops seem to be having to cut pay and overtime but they are writing citations and traffic tickets like it's going out of style or saving their jobs. Not busting real criminals because there is less money in doing that rather than harassing it's citizens under the guise of "public safety." The cities are using it's police force to generate revenue and that has to be highly unethical. But citizens can't say anything about it because then you are soft on crime or some other conversation ending ploy. Is it just me or does everything suck right now for everyone except politicians?

        • 4 votes
        Reply#4 - Thu Jul 9, 2009 9:54 AM EDT
        Giles Martin

        Thank you, MicSavvy, for hinting at an existing and abused source of revenue. If one returns 100% of collected fines to a general fund, police spend less time "looking for a reason to write a ticket" and more time "ensuring domestic Tranquility (Preamble, U.S. Constitution)". As for property taxes, they do tend to vary by budget requirements more than they do by genuine value. Education expenses? Dismiss ineffective staff, based on test results - no the SSAT's, as they're a joke. If students must pass British A Levels or the Germanic Arbitur then teachers must spend more time to instruct and have less to indoctrinate. Over time, with wiser citizens growing less hysterical over rare or nonexistant issues - expense and regulation both drop. Elkhart, Indiana?

        • 2 votes
        #4.1 - Thu Jul 9, 2009 11:03 AM EDT
        Reply
        runner1-674401

        its ELKHART you have reporters crying about the poor illegals losing jobs. if they had payed their taxes you probably would not be in this mess. you say you had to build roads to the new subdivisions outside the city who said so ? the city council members that lived in the new subs you choose to live where you don't pay for services you don't get them

        • 2 votes
        Reply#5 - Thu Jul 9, 2009 10:12 AM EDT
        Giles Martin

        Remember. Public hysteria may be generated by the press; one gains a greater audience by exciting them than boring them. Genuine difficulties are often too complex to explain in eighth year English without "wasting" airtime or paper. It's really much simpler to over-report rare events, interview unrealiable sources... how many ways are there to decieve?

          #5.1 - Thu Jul 9, 2009 11:09 AM EDT
          Reply
          Bobb D

          Our company has just added 10% to our workforce in the just last month. You want work it's out there, it's just that you have to work a little harder then before. You might have to travel and you might not like all the crap, but we've been through this before, I remeber not that long ago we were opening and closing the frig door quickly to save energy. Just suck it up, get through it we will recover and in a couple years we be back.

            Reply#6 - Thu Jul 9, 2009 10:13 AM EDT
            DaneLover

            Getting real annoyed that the Liberal Press continues to use Elkhart, Indiana, as an example of Anytown, USA.

            It is not. Elkhart,Indiana is a one industry town, manufacturing a niche vehicle for entertainment. It loaded the basket with one egg, and when that egg splattered, they attempt to elicit sympathy from anyone as to their ignorant planning.

            The rest of the article is a circular diatribe of tax nonsense. Surely, you cannot expect tax revenue from an abandoned building. However, has anyone seen their assessments reduced to "fair market value??" No---well isn't that a surprise?

            You see, local and state governments create a "budget" of wants and needs, filled with mandated spending from special interests and politicians. A TOTAL COST is projected. They then divide that TOTAL COST by the available taxable properties. The tax is determined by the "assessed fair market value" and the tax millage.

            Now, since the millage seems to be the often publically reported "increase or decrease" in taxes on property owners, it belies the total tax impact on any one taxpayer. In New York, the state requires every taxing authority to "re-assess" a property value every two years------- THE ASSESSMENT NEVER GOES DOWN.

            So, while the taxing authority reports "NO INCREASE IN MILLAGE", it religiously fails to report the impact of the increase in assessment value.

            Currently, it is universely acknowledged that property values have declined 20-30 percent of, say, two years ago. But, just try to explain that to your assessor, who just RAISED your property value by 10-20 percent or more.

            THE PROBLEM IS THIS: GOVERNMENT CANNOT EXPECT TO CONTINUE TO EXTRACT MORE TAXES FROM THE PUBLIC, AND NOT EXPECT THAT PUBLIC TO REVOLT.

            There is no rational argument that the government can make in assuming property values are "increasing for tax purposes" when if fact, property values are "decreasing for sales purposes."

            To believe otherwise is pure insanity.............................

            • 6 votes
            Reply#7 - Thu Jul 9, 2009 10:16 AM EDT
            HORNADY XTP

            Federal gov't money trouble?

             Haven't we recently read about millions going to mexico? millions going to gaza? millions going to egypt? I wonder to what other foreign countries our "millions" are going? Are we paying out for other countries to take gitmo terrorists/prisoners?

            The gov't with money trouble can't be the same one with these payouts!

            • 2 votes
            Reply#8 - Thu Jul 9, 2009 10:45 AM EDT
            Golfermom

            Federal, state and local gov'ts have treated the taxpayers like their own piggy banks, overspending all the way, pushing the mess forward when they move on to cushy jobs provided by lobbyists/cronies. Why shouldn't school class sizes increas? I remember there being THIRTY kids in my elementary school classes. Somehow we all survived in a system that educated generations smart enough to put man on the moon, invented the internet and pioneered cloning. Go figure! We need to take a long hard look at the systems we've put into place or have been told/brainwashed into thinking that we need. We have all seen five or six public works guys leaning on their shovels while one fills the pothole. It's even worse at the Federal level where I would bet at least 30% of the workers could be cut and we wouldn't miss them or notice a difference in how services are delivered. If Joe taxpayer has to tighten his belt, then so do all civil servants. We shouldn't be working for the gov't, they should be working for us. And I agree - let's keep federal funds at home where they belong, helping our citizens. Why are our cities crumbling because of lack of funds while billions go to Iraq to build them new infrastructures?

              Reply#9 - Thu Jul 9, 2009 11:03 AM EDT
              KARLMHOLM

              There are now two scenarios... With government bailouts, the US and other major capitalist economies may muddle through. Alternatively, there could be a deepening world financial and economic crisis. It would be wrong (he says) to rely on the consoling idea that ‘it can’t be as bad as the great depression’ of the 1930s: "What we face now could, in fact, be worse than the Great Depression – because the world is now so much more interconnected and because the banking sector is now so big. We face a synchronised downturn in almost all countries, a weakening of confidence among individuals and firms, and major problems for government finances". Whatever scenario plays out, the capitalist ruling class will do all it can to offload the effects of this deep economic crisis onto the backs of the world’s working class and poor.

                Reply#10 - Thu Jul 9, 2009 11:07 AM EDT
                Pharding-1042069

                And there are no farms to migrate to for work like you had in the Great Depression

                  #10.1 - Thu Jul 9, 2009 2:49 PM EDT
                  Reply
                  RichardR-758488

                  The 10-hour four-day work week idea is good, sounds more efficient. Could the highway department perhaps access some federal stimulus money and hire another crew, also working a 10-hour four day week? Result would be that more work gets done, more workers have jobs. And I'll bet there's some stimulus money available to fix that leaky firehouse roof, too.

                  And please don't try to convince me that there's no bloated overhead in "the private sector." I've worked in both public and private ventures, and wherever you have people you are likely to have some "bloat." I'll acknowledge that perhaps in the private sector it's easier to trim.

                   

                   

                   

                    Reply#11 - Thu Jul 9, 2009 11:08 AM EDT
                    MM-584706

                    In the private sector I do not have to subsidize the bloat !  If they raise the prices to cover the bloat I can do business elsewhere.  What options do we have with government bloat, are you suggesting that we can shop around for lower taxes ?

                     

                    • 2 votes
                    #11.1 - Thu Jul 9, 2009 12:04 PM EDT
                    Reply
                    My 2cents

                    Construction always worked 10 hour work days during the summer, it is the nature of the industy, you didn't invent anything and have been working 10 hours during the summer months anyways.

                    So for 20 years you have been sucking in the money and blowing it our your a$$. Government does not have a clue how to budget. I have been to your city.. paint some damn yellow lines on your roads, you can barely make out the lanes.

                      Reply#12 - Thu Jul 9, 2009 11:22 AM EDT
                      Jeff-1049763

                      I am sick of the business as usual in Washington, D's / R's or Progressives they are all the same...we have spent less then 10 percent of the Stimulus and we don't have money for road repairs...how shovel ready is that...Holy smokes that is work honest hard work that will keep America Rolling...why in the fudge doesn't this stuff get going...I say lets have a do over for November...and we get to pick regular Joe the Plumbers this time...

                        Reply#13 - Thu Jul 9, 2009 11:35 AM EDT
                        Sami -55

                        Why are we always complaining about more $$$$ , ? There are a lots of houses in every city . There are a lots of $$$$$$$$ from property taxes in every city no matter how hard the housing got hit hard , why they don't tell us how much money they collect in any single city ? and how much the city needs and for what ? I wish they just stop crying about more $$$$$ and deal with what they get .......... I am not really intersted in reading these kind of articles on the internet any more as we pay our butts off for property taxes . thank you .

                          Reply#14 - Thu Jul 9, 2009 11:46 AM EDT
                          Not revealing

                          I can see both sides of this situation, as I currently work in a very large city (one of the top 5). I was taken from Elkhart as a child after many generations of my family have lived there. I was looking at pictures the other day of my great grandfather and grandfather working in their small shops back in the 1800's. They had very specialized talents and our family lived well in Elkhart for many, many years. My grandfather worked on that railroad that came through Elkhart. I have uncles that worked and retired from Selmers and the Pharmacy company that made Alka Seltzer. I watched as myself and cousins who left, and my cousins who remained in Elkhart over the years, as we grew and changed. I even returned to Elkhart myself at one time and taught in their schools. I seems that those who left, became quite successful and those that stayed never changed. In Elkhart they would buy their produce, meat, and dairy at different markets and never vary. Always supporting their little neighborhood shops, knowing everyone and everyone's business. They lived in their same houses they originally bought, close to parents. Their world is and was very small. They did not travel to other countires or reach out to find out what was going on in the world; experience "it". I had an Aunt who drove around Elkhart her whole life and never bothered to get a drivers license. They loved their way of life and if they are they are still there, they still do. Elkhart was a nice little All American town.....that is dying. I don't know if will come back. I was taken west at the age of 6 and have had many adventures, travel, education etc. My parents were not highly educated (father work in the trailer factories) but took the chance, like few others, and left Elkhart. They never regretted it and never will. I am 60 years old now and forever thankful to them for taking me out of Elkhart.

                          I now work in a huge city. I have lived here for 48 years. It has been hopping and popping up faster than anyone can imagine. It is the fastest growing county in the country. The city has 15,000 employees. We are always looking for ways to change. It is tough and aggressive. This city expects great things from all employees. We work hard! I do not agree with comments about local governments that are so general. You work by my side one day! Arrive at 6:45am work until 5:00pm. No breaks....lucky if you get lunch. High productivity required. I deserve every benefit I have!

                          Believe me.....from having seen both sides, I can tell you that if Elkhart does not think "out of the box", look for new industry and think they will get by on their good old american town charm.......it is not going to happpen!! Elkhart will fade and be gone! Just a memory. Start with your High School kids and start with an innovative think tank for change. Have High School kids research new potential industry and submit their ideas to the city. Build you future leaders from within. They know their town and the web. Do not use any of the old ways. Educate the elementary children in totally new ways; computers, web based systems, new business systems. The solution will not come from the adults there today but from the children. Support the teachers! Get them together to brainstorm on how Elkhart of the future will look. Look for hope in education, diversity, and planning!

                            Reply#15 - Thu Jul 9, 2009 11:48 AM EDT
                            Bighorn

                            A recent example seen everywhere is one government worker digging a hole ( reason unknown ) while four supervisors stand in a group around the hole in the ground watching the person digging the hole. It appears that for every government worker it takes at least four supervisors to monitor the work. Plus another government employee had to paint a yellow circle on the ground before the hole could be dug. Once the hole is dug a new government grew comes in to fill up the hole. This is government at its best.

                            • 2 votes
                            Reply#16 - Thu Jul 9, 2009 11:53 AM EDT
                            jjsjedidiah

                            painfull choice, give michael jackson a memorial service paid for by the city of los angeles tax payers when it is well known that michael jackson's liquid assests are worth over 500 million dollars.

                            but i guess there aint no party like a west cost party, cause the west coast party is paid for with tax dollars.

                              Reply#17 - Thu Jul 9, 2009 12:00 PM EDT
                              MM-584706

                              Wonder if they paid for it with California IOUs ?

                                #17.1 - Thu Jul 9, 2009 12:05 PM EDT
                                Joe the Plumber-1204666

                                I heard on CBS news that the LAPD has a website asking for donations to fund the estimated 4 million dollars they spent on patrolman overtime to police the Jackson party.

                                  #17.2 - Fri Jul 10, 2009 10:37 AM EDT
                                  Reply
                                  Sami -55

                                  Enough is Enough , deal with it and stop crying about money , we are paying too much for everything , water , phone, heat, gas , food , insurance , dish , internet , mortage , loans , credit cards , auto repairs , auto loans , grass treatments and on the top of all that here comes the property taxes . Can someone tell me how can we live ? what is more needed from us ? what do we get for free for being an Americans ?

                                    Reply#18 - Thu Jul 9, 2009 12:02 PM EDT
                                    gattes12

                                    what do we get for free for being an Americans ?

                                    Also life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

                                    we are paying too much for everything , water , phone, heat, gas , food , insurance , dish , internet , mortage , loans , credit cards , auto repairs , auto loans , grass treatments and on the top of all that here comes the property taxes

                                    1. Water is necessary.

                                    2. phone or how much phone is the question.

                                    3. gas - controllable. Be smart about it.

                                    4. dish, internet, loans, credit cards, auto repairs and loans, and grass treatments are not essential to live.

                                    Anyone who believes it is the cause of their own problem.

                                      #18.1 - Thu Jul 9, 2009 2:01 PM EDT
                                      Reply
                                      MM-584706

                                      Local ( and all ) government cannot even concieve of the idea that layoffs, salary cuts and benefit cuts are a real fact of life. They cannot even grasp the idea that increases are not guaranteed and cannot be questioned.

                                      • 2 votes
                                      Reply#19 - Thu Jul 9, 2009 12:11 PM EDT
                                      Not revealing

                                      You are soooooooooo wrong!! We have eliminated over 1200 jobs this year. Our support staff is gone. We even empty our own trash in the offices. No supplies are ordered. We often buy our own. The air conditioning has been turn up to 80 degrees. Many, many things have been cut. We do not get guaranteed increases. Tell our laid off employees they have no conception of the idea. I pay $48 a month just to park my car in a city garage.

                                      Get real.

                                        #19.1 - Thu Jul 9, 2009 3:57 PM EDT
                                        Reply
                                        Land Of Liberty

                                        The article doesn't mention the nightmare that Elkhart will soon face as a result of Governor Mitch Daniels pushing his 1% property tax cap through the Indiana General Assembly - with no alternative funding mechanism to make up for the lost revenue.

                                        I'm 100% in favor of eliminating taxes, but not without a sound and comprehensive plan to scale back and to find the right means to sustain vital community services. And it won't be limited to Elkhart. It'll be every single municipality in the state that will no longer be able to operate effectively.

                                        At the same time, the Daniels Administration has placed a proposal on the table to consolidate all local Indiana government to the county level, where all activities will be dictated by a non-elected body of appointees. Watch and see how this falls out. When local governments in Indiana fail as a result of dramatically reduced property taxes with no viable plan, the government will blame it on the economy but we'll know its a result of the tax caps. I suspect that they'll use the planned failures to convince the voters to consolidate under the Danials plan to eliminate local representative leadership, and they'll implement the "recommended" system which is designed to centralize authority and make it "top down" as opposed to "bottom up" by the people.

                                          Reply#20 - Thu Jul 9, 2009 12:16 PM EDT
                                          Matt-981064

                                          Sure, it's nice to see government agencies make an effort to save money or utilize it more effectively but, overall, the tone of the comments above is outright disgraceful. Many, if not most, government workers try to do their jobs to well -- they are not just a bunch of lazy, money-grubbing leeches on society.

                                          For too long the citizens of this country have been told, again and again and again, that they pay too much in taxes, that this country is uncompetitive because of those taxes, and that if only those taxes were cut, peace, prosperity and happiness for all would follow. There are over 40 industrialized nations who comprise our primary global competitors that pay higher taxes than we do. You want a strong military, police and fire protection, good schools, roads that aren't a pile of rubble, bridges that aren't falling down, water and sewer mains that don't leak --- well you're going to have to pay taxes.

                                          Our parents and grandparents paid taxes and helped build this country and the great infrastructure that allowed us to become the "big dog" on the world economic scene. But ever since the 70s and 80s, we've let it all go in the name of paying fewer taxes and focusing on own own personal gratification.

                                          You get what you pay for --- and if you don't want government services or public infrastructure that enable private businesses to thrive, then you can continue to whine about your taxes. Otherwise, shut up and suck it up, America.

                                            Reply#21 - Thu Jul 9, 2009 12:17 PM EDT
                                            eurotex

                                            It's depressing to be demonized just because of the industry you work in. Once that industry - private or public - becomes unpopular, everyone who works there is condemned. I worked in the oil industry for 30 years in exploration and production and had to put up with the ignorance of the general public, who seemed to get their "facts" only from GreenPeace, the Sierra Club, and other special interest NGOs.

                                              #21.1 - Sat Jul 11, 2009 10:56 AM EDT
                                              Reply
                                              Paul Lucero

                                              Taxes are Immoral and our Founders Knew this. The governments of the world abuse this power and when the bad times come the system collapses.

                                              Taxes are Immoral!!!

                                              Fire all your elected Officials, do it now!!!!

                                              • 2 votes
                                              Reply#22 - Thu Jul 9, 2009 12:20 PM EDT
                                              MM-584706

                                              True Story of how local governments think:

                                              Last year it was revealed that a large township (Brookhaven) on Long Island, NY was spending over $600 for each deer carcus that was removed from highways after being hit by vehicles. Taxpayers of course screamed about this amount and soon the local politicians announced that they had entered into a contract with a private individual to remove the carcuses for less than $100 each for a savings of $500 for each carcus removed. I called a local representative and asked how many town employees had been eliminated or vehicles excessed as they were no longer clearing carcuses from the roads, and was informed that none had been eliminated. So the towns response to the cost problem was to increase the cost to taxpayers by $100 a carcus, give the town workers less to do, and brag that they were saving the taxpayers money ! Unfortunately that is how politicians and government workers think.

                                              • 4 votes
                                              Reply#23 - Thu Jul 9, 2009 12:21 PM EDT
                                              bruce-1207288

                                              I'm so tried of this discussion, I don't care if it is state, local, federal or schools having to laid off teachers, we don't have enough money to build enough roads, etc... We as a people no matter if it is personal or govermental we have over spent for years. We as a country must deal with the stitutation that we have been handed. I don't care who's fault it is. We can blame every preident from Washington to Bush. Will it help anything? The short answer is NO!!!! We as a people must understand that we will have to do with less for a while. So please we need to quit writting these stories about government taking in less money, and start writing stories about how to fix this country. We just spend over a week talking about Michael Jackson, did I hear one story about socal security or medicare or the budget.

                                              • 1 vote
                                              Reply#24 - Thu Jul 9, 2009 12:40 PM EDT
                                              bret g

                                              These are serious issues. Unfortunately our leaders are using the same old solutions. They aren't working in case you haven't noticed.

                                              In Sonoma County CA the public works department just had a consolidation of shops. In doing so they found a piece of gear I invented that they purchased locally. It is a ROBOFlagger. A device that reduces the labor required for traditional traffic control on 2 lane roads. You know the flaggers??

                                              Well when times were good they did business as usual. 2 Flaggers for each job. Now that times are tough they use 1 ROBOFlagger and one County worker. They are completing the job with 50% less labor, and as a side benefit SAFER.

                                              The technology is currently being used in Iraq by the Marines. 1St Battalion 8Th Marines are using the ROBOCheckpoint in Al Asad. As you can imagine the safety factor is of much more importance in combat situations (pictures at www.robocheckpoint.com)

                                              There are county's city's and sates using their heads and new tech! I hope you hear back from more that have new tech saving money during these tough times.

                                              Sincerely,

                                              Bret P. Goss
                                              President
                                              First Call Flagging Inc

                                                Reply#25 - Thu Jul 9, 2009 12:59 PM EDT
                                                hilobamacaine

                                                if you can next invent a shovel that stands up by itself that would be good

                                                  #25.1 - Thu Jul 9, 2009 1:38 PM EDT
                                                  jerry-806874

                                                  that would reduce a four man crew to one and save $250,000 a year.

                                                    #25.2 - Thu Jul 9, 2009 6:31 PM EDT
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