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Strong bank results mask wider weakness

Thu Jul 16, 2009 2:40 PM EDT
business, only-on-msnbc-com, wall-street, investment, banks, banking, goldman-sachs, answer-desk, jpmorgan-chase, goldman
msnbc.com News — By John W. Schoen, Senior Producer

FILE - In this May 19, 2009 file photo, an office tower known as 1Chase Manhattan Plaza, occupied by JPMorgan Chase & Co., is shown in New York. JPMorgan Chase & Co. posted a 36 percent jump in second-quarter profit Thursday, July 16, easily surpassing Wall Street expectations as strength in its core consumer and investment banking businesses offset a jump in credit losses.

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— The long national banking nightmare may be over — but only for a select few banks.

On Thursday, JPMorgan Chase & Co., bolstered by strength in investment banking, reported a 36 percent increase in second quarter profit that beat analysts' expectations.

The report follows news from Goldman Sachs on Tuesday of a stunning $2.7 billion profit less than a year after one of the worst financial crises since the Great Depression began. Revenues soared 39 percent to $25.62 billion.

But most of the industry remains mired in a pile of bad debts and rising defaults that continue to weigh on profits and balance sheets. CIT, struggling for survival under the pressure of continuing loan losses, was denied a federal lifeline Wednesday and now faces the prospect of bankruptcy or possible liquidation.

"The financial crisis is not over,” Stephen Roach, chairman at Morgan Stanley Asia said on CNBC. “The (International Monetary Fund) is telling us that by the end of this crisis $4 trillion worth of bad assets will be written down. Thus far financial institutions have written off, at most, half of that. So there plenty more to come.”

The surprisingly strong results at Goldman Sachs Tuesday sparked a wave of optimism that the heavy losses that have battered the banking industry for over a year may finally be easing. But a closer look at where Goldman made those profits may temper that enthusiasm. Profits were driven by record investment banking fees, including the underwriting of new stock sales for companies trying to raise cash.

With traditional investment banking competitors like Lehman Bros. and Bear Stearns no longer around to compete for investment banking business, Goldman Sachs was able to substantially increase its share of that business.

“Goldman is essentially the last investment house standing,” said Matt McCormick, a banking analyst at Bahl and Gaynor Investment Counsel. “So they have the ability not only to attract and retain great employees, but they have the ability to attract and retain great clients."

JPMorgan also saw big gains in its investment banking business and in revenues from bond trading, profit centers that only a handful of other large banks enjoy.

On Friday, Bank of America reported better-than-expected second-quarter earnings of $2.42 billion, but also said it was plagued by losses from failed loans. Citigroup posted a profit of $3 billion, instead of the loss Wall Street expected, but its earnings were helped by a gain of $6.7 billion from selling its stake in Smith Barney. Rising costs for bad loans also nagged Citigroup.

“When I look at the rest of the banks, I don't like what I see," said Jim LaCamp, a portfolio manager with Macroportfolio Advisors. "We still have deteriorating credit quality on real estate loans, commercial real estate loans on credit cards and so the regional banks are all still reeling."

Smaller banks, or those deemed “not too big to fail” are also struggling to right themselves. So far this year the FDIC has taken over failed banks at the rate of about two a week. The FDIC’s list of “troubled banks” stood at 305 at the end of the first quarter, the latest data available.

The outlook is especially cloudy because of uncertainty about the timing and strength of the economic recovery. In its earnings report Thursday, JPMorgan CEO Jamie Dimon cautioned that it’s not clear whether the economy will deteriorate further in the second half of the year.

“We expect unemployment to get worse," he said in a statement.

The bank said delinquent home equity loans “have started to stabilize." But a separate report Thursday said the number of households on the verge of losing their homes soared by nearly 15 percent in the first half of the year as rising job losses kept more homeowners from paying their monthly mortgage bills.

The data from foreclosure listing service RealtyTrac showed that, despite the Obama administration's $50 billion subsidies efforts to spur lenders to modify mortgages to more affordable terms, the nation's housing woes are spreading. Foreclosures are not expected to peak until the middle of next year. Until foreclosures can be contained, distressed sales will continue to weigh on housing prices and erode the value of loans and mortgage-backed securities on banks’ books.

Analysts say the commercial real estate market is also suffering as businesses hit hard by the recession have closed up shop, canceled leases and defaulted on commercial mortgages.

“Eventually, a lot of these mortgage-backed securities may wind up providing some gains, but I think that's a long way off,” said Jeffery Harte, a banking analyst at Sandler O'Neill. “We have to see how bad the credit headwinds are near term and at what point in time does both consumer and CEO confidence grow enough to say it's going to be OK, let's start thinking about growth as opposed to just the curtailing things."

Banks are also struggling with a mountain of bad credit card and other consumer debt, which will remain under pressure until the economy begins to stage a solid recovery and the job market stabilizes. Despite isolated data showing improvement, most economists expect the economic recovery to be weak. Without solid gains in wages, consumers will likely remain hunkered down and continue to curtail spending.

“Seventy-five percent of the world’s economies today are still contracting,” said Roach. “And the biggest piece of on the demand side of the global economy is the American consumer who is dead in the water. So this is going to be an unusually anemic recovery.”

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Michael-633180Deleted
Duffy B-265890

Still an ugly pichure.....OMG

  • 1 vote
Reply#2 - Thu Jul 16, 2009 3:53 PM EDT
Get Real...

The sky is falling the sky is falling...

  • 1 vote
#2.1 - Thu Jul 16, 2009 4:50 PM EDT
Gus-393033

Get Real...

IT IS!

  • 3 votes
#2.2 - Thu Jul 16, 2009 5:16 PM EDT
Ric-621506

Get real.

Maxine, Chuck, and Barney Fwank agree with you.

“Mr. Chairman, we do not have a crisis at Freddie Mac, and in particular at Fannie Mae, under the outstanding leadership of Mr. Frank Raines. Everything in the 1992 act has worked just fine.” If it ain't broke, why do you want to fix it?” (Maxine Waters, 2003)

“My worry is that we're using the recent safety and soundness concerns, particularly with Freddie, and with a poor regulator, as a straw man to curtail Fannie and Freddie's mission.” (Charles Schumer, 2003)

''These two entities -- Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac -- are not facing any kind of financial crisis'' (Barney Frank, 2003)

  • 1 vote
#2.3 - Thu Jul 16, 2009 6:37 PM EDT
charles turner

and what party do these greedy, low life losers belong to? You got it!!

    #2.4 - Thu Jul 16, 2009 8:33 PM EDT
    '53 Korean Vet

    What do all of you want to "Get Real For"-!? "He's already Broke-!!" He can't help you guys-any-!! He's already down on one Knee!"

      #2.5 - Thu Jul 16, 2009 9:03 PM EDT
      Gus-393033

      Dale and anyone who may want to read...

      Hope in the Democrats for checks and balances? You have to be kidding! Checks and balances come from a balanced government. Didn't the Bush and Republican "complete control" years just tell us that? That's recent history!

      Besides... This new change that this government is throwing at us is undoing everything good that this country has stood for. It's almost as though it is re-writing a shadow Constitution and Bill of Rights. And as King Soloman once wrote..."the king will do what is his pleasure." We didn't vote in a President... we were calling somehow for a King! Well... Elvis came back alright! The way that this whole thing came down, President Obama should carry handkerchiefs to give to his crooning and star gazing fans. Their eyes are completely blinded by his brightness

      By the way... We should take issue with reports showing unemployment at 9.5 %.... try 16.5 to 20%! Throw in all those folks who now only get 20 hours a week instead of 40... and w e l l...

      The conservative to moderate American public needs to face the reality of what they have done. They turned to the snake oil salespeople for a remedy. Bad decision. We're getting murky water that is not going to turn into wine.

      • 1 vote
      #2.6 - Thu Jul 16, 2009 10:50 PM EDT
      DB Akron

      Gus, a simple majority is not complete control, especially when 10 of your 51 senators frequently, not occasionally, vote with the minority party. I.e. the Senate Republicans did not work with a unified voice. Most of those lost their seats or retired in the last 2 elections. There were only 3 left, but one converted to Democrat about a month ago.

      In the Senate, the Democrats may hold 60 seats, but they have 3 or 4 senators who may jump ship and 2 ailing senators who cannot be counted on for votes.

      And to those republicans and independants who voted for these nice folks; Why are you surprised that these types of legislation are being crammed through? Didn't you read the whole label on the box?

      • 1 vote
      #2.7 - Thu Jul 16, 2009 11:19 PM EDT
      Gus-393033

      DB...

      Thanks for the response... but I do not agree with your assessment of balance altogether. George Bush rubber stamped almost everything that came down the pipe from the Republican controlled Congress. That the Republicans were acting more like moderate Democrats isn't the issue. They usually don't do that. But they drank a little too much at their victory party and never came down from the high! Well... we certainly brought them down! Too many of them I might add. We were taking potshots at them but forgot to cover the ricochet that hit us in the $%s! In fact... replace that $%s with the heart... because we may never be the same.

      But to say that very many Democrats will part with other Democrats in this session... well I hope that you are right. (I pray that you are right!) And the only reason that any of them would part with their friends is because their voting block is filling their ears up about what they are trying to shove down our throats.I hope it happens. But I think by far and away that it is proven to be better to have at least one branch of Government in the hands of the other party.

      (Heck no... they didn't read the label. Many don't even know what World War 1 was about. Besides... they were too busy pushing forward for an autograph.)

      • 1 vote
      #2.8 - Thu Jul 16, 2009 11:52 PM EDT
      Reply
      Runawaybull

      I was just informed by my employer that we all (300+ employees) will be taking a 10% reduction in pay starting in August......I can't help but think this is happening all across America and will have a profound effect on our economy.

      • 15 votes
      Reply#3 - Thu Jul 16, 2009 3:54 PM EDT
      Undescribable

      Curious what kind of employment are u operating in ? Like the best way to stimulate the economy is to give increases to the cost of living wages ahhh costs of living are to be given to Ivy league corporate failures.

      At least commoners who lose their homes have the penal systems to fall on for nonsuffecient funds! 3 hots and a cot if your lucky and not sharing!

        #3.1 - Thu Jul 16, 2009 4:00 PM EDT
        lvingbarefoot

        Does it make you feel better to know that Federal Employees are getting raises with your tax dollars?

        • 4 votes
        #3.2 - Thu Jul 16, 2009 4:41 PM EDT
        GaryL-749643

        Here are some enlightening sayings made by a great President!

        'Government is like a baby: An alimentary canal with a big appetite at one end and no sense of responsibility at the other.'
        - Ronald Reagan
        'Government's view of the economy could be summed up in a few short phrases: If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it.'
        - Ronald Reagan

        'I have wondered at times about what the Ten Commandments would have looked like if Moses had run them through the U.S. Congress.'
        - Ronald Reagan

        About sums it all up!!

        • 5 votes
        #3.3 - Thu Jul 16, 2009 5:20 PM EDT
        Gus-393033

        Thanks Gary....

        With all the bantering about with regards to Ronald Reagan(Un-employment figures hit over 10% in the second year of his first term) I never had the feeling that America itself was falling apart. His strong willed tenacity, sincere speeches, and manner always made me feel as though there was hope for America. He very rarely apologized for who America was, and seemed to just reach into your living room to help you up when you were down. He realized one thing... a motivated and hopeful people is a producing people.

        I don't get that feeling from this President. Maybe it's because I feel like he wants to reach into my living room for my wallet! (sorry... nothings there. You'll have my TV soon though)

        We can't trust in our banks. We can't trust in our investments. We can't trust in our elected officials to address the real problems with the system. That's why we are seeing so many people being put out of work. If these banks cannot invest in us... the U.S. citizen... the dream is gone.

        China's GDP was announced at growing at 7.9% today. What about ours? A 5.7% decrease in the last quarter. What jobs have been added through the Stimulus?

        Negative Millions.

        America and it's citizens should always come across as first from our President. What is happening in other countries who have governments to watch over their issues should come as second. It's about time to pull in the reigns... or just blend into the background.

        • 3 votes
        #3.4 - Thu Jul 16, 2009 6:06 PM EDT
        DB Akron

        Gus, the economy was on the steepest decline since the depression because the steel industry was collapsing from the effects of air pollution regulation, increasing SO2 (sulfur dioxide) Credits - yes there was a sulfur trading market, record increases in Union wages and benefits, Japanese subsidized steel, 13% inflation, and 19% interest rates.

        Reagan had a Democratic controlled house all 8 years of his presidency. He had to go on television many times to appeal to the nation to pressure the house to pass tax and spending cuts. He is one of the highest users of the presidential veto in his first term. He won nearly every one.

        He was only able to get 1/3 the spending cuts to match the tax cuts - remember the house writes the spending bills. By the time he got close enough to the promised tax and spending cuts, Businesses had been bled dry of money. Before expansion could take place tax cuts would take time to build revenue in businesses hands and interest rates needed to get significantly lower.

        We earned our problems for entrusting our lives politicians like Ford, Carter and Tip O'Neil. Real history must not be taught in schools anymore, because the last president, the current president, and crews we have had in congress for the last 8 years are even worse.

        • 1 vote
        #3.5 - Thu Jul 16, 2009 11:50 PM EDT
        Reply
        Undescribable

        The corporate mouthpiece CNBC would love to speculate that the financial tsunami now a considerable riptide which they would like you to believe is just that. The weeks following the Mccain/Palin campaign "fundamentals of the economy are strong" CNBC anchors throwing tantrums and walking off air still employed are spewing same old speculative B.S. I only ask why arent the multibillion hedgefunds against our own markets not displayed for the commoner without inside information to play on! a fair share for all !

        The markets are swirling with high risk inflation and Unemployment and Homelosers. Like they say it always looks good on paper which is eventually flushed with the rest of the excriment !

        • 2 votes
        Reply#4 - Thu Jul 16, 2009 3:55 PM EDT
        Last

        You should check out how many shares you have to buy at a time too. If you have a little to invest then you can't because they require 500 shares be purchased to even buy any.

        • 1 vote
        #4.1 - Thu Jul 16, 2009 4:12 PM EDT
        Joyce-1177091

        Isn't it amazing that there was very little talk of the problems with the banks until the election, then all of a sudden it was this tidal wave and urgency to do something. And, it wasn't until Obama started talking about how bad the economy was that everything went down hill like an avalanche. All of a sudden banks had no money to lend and the whole country was in a crisis and we had to pass this huge bailout bill immediately or the country was going to crash. And, then this bill was passed padded with all kinds of pork that every senator and congressperson had to put in to sweeten the pot to get them to sign and these guys put absolutely no strings or oversight with this bill. So now the banks have got the money to lend, they don't lend or charge sky high rates to lend and they raise credit card rates if you have any kind of outstanding balance and decrease your credit lines to make your credit scores go down so you have no ability to borrow. They make all these bad housing loans, flood the foreclosures on the market and drive all of our housing vaues in the toilet and they come out smelling like a rose. This would make a good credit card ad, because this is truly priceless.

        • 3 votes
        #4.2 - Thu Jul 16, 2009 5:10 PM EDT
        DB Akron

        Joyce,

        Paulsen and Bernanke held many news conferences and testified to congress many times from October 2007 on that the banks needed to re-write loans to more realistic values and affordable terms. The news media would play them, but not really discuss them. The Democrats stuck to their guns that there was nothing wrong as they did clear back to 2004 (videos on Youtube show this). When things fell apart in 2008, they then said, we didn't know anything about this problem, it's the Republican's fault. They really had fun because they made Bernanke and Paulsen detail what they wanted so, even though they wrote the bill including 150 Bln in pork, they could blame Bush.

        Why do you think they did this. 1) the 1999 Republican majority wrote most of the damaging legislation - with help from the democrats who also wanted to champion low-income home ownership. 2) The Republicans held a majority (most of the time in both the house and Senate didn't pass anything to fix the problems. The only proposed banking reform legislation failed in 2006 when quite a number of defecting republicans voted the bill down with a solidly against democrat minority. 3) The Republicans held White House, the president should have done something. The President can only propose legislation, which he did in his "state of the Union speeches - at least 5 times. The President does not write bill, Congress does.

        Republicans are terrible polliticians. They think that they are the public's servant and just need to work on a plan for the people. The Democrats don't ever put anything together without trying to fully understand how the situation can be used to the greatest political advantage today, tomorrow and forever.

          #4.3 - Fri Jul 17, 2009 12:22 AM EDT
          Reply
          CommonSenseOR

          Why isn't the main stream media reporting on the takeover and infiltration of government by Goldman Sachs? How Goldman execs were put in charge of the bailout and orchestrated the denial of bailout funds to their competitors? No wonder they are making great profits, they put Lehman and others out of business! Watch the Glenn Beck show for more. He told all about it yesterday on his TV show.

          • 10 votes
          Reply#5 - Thu Jul 16, 2009 3:59 PM EDT
          ToxicChemist

          Wait for Tomorrow, CIT may file for bankrupcy. They are a financial institution that specializes in SMALL BUISNESS LOANS. The Obama Adminstration is going to let this institution "go silently into that good night", leaving small buisnesses to scramble for loans (in a market of very tight credit availability) to stay in buisness. It will be another straw on the camel's back, as layoffs will precipitate from this lack of action by our government. Then after the dust settles, and the small buisnesses are gone, their workers now on the unemployment line, our govt. will try to pass Stimulus 2. (without any evidence of success from Stimulus 1) You have to ask youself, WHAT ARE THESE PEOPLE THINKING????

          • 3 votes
          #5.1 - Thu Jul 16, 2009 4:15 PM EDT
          Reply
          deadonDeleted
          Ivan Gur-Arie

          This may make people sit up and take notice that what we call Capitalism is nothing more that an oligarchy and a plutocracy of greed by the special few. So what if there are people who are out of jobs and others who have had their life savings ripped away. It is time for the government to sponsor bakeries so we can all eat cake.

          • 3 votes
          Reply#7 - Thu Jul 16, 2009 4:05 PM EDT
          KARLMHOLM

          People won't listen.

          The corrupt "ruling class" have em right where they want em, supporting capitalism, supporting the corrupt private sector, which is nothing but an oligarchy and plutocray you are right...

            #7.1 - Thu Jul 16, 2009 4:25 PM EDT
            Ric-621506

            pluto.

            Karl Marx agrees with you.

              #7.2 - Thu Jul 16, 2009 6:35 PM EDT
              Reply
              ab-1218237

              This shows how wall street is disconected from main street. While wall st. is getting fat checks and lavish bonuses, main st. is in blooddshed battle to survive. I wonder why are the markets doing so well when the rest of the economy is suffering so badly? The banks are selling money they got from the feds to each other. It's not going to last for a long time, until by 2020 Shangai will be the bussines center of the world and Chinese currency will dominate over dollar. Then we will see the real profits of wall st. banks, if they are still alive by that time. I wont cry about that. At least some others across the ocean will take revenge on te name of poor american main st.

              • 3 votes
              Reply#8 - Thu Jul 16, 2009 4:05 PM EDT
              Joyce-1177091

              I just heard the president of the insurance company I carry my health insurance with and has increased my group rate up by 600% in the past three years gets a salary of $35,000,000. And, that is just the president's salary. Now I know why insurance is so high

              • 2 votes
              #8.1 - Thu Jul 16, 2009 5:13 PM EDT
              from around the block

              And yet, Joyce, you take every opportunity to bash our current President who is trying to bring competition to those very insurance companies.

              • 1 vote
              #8.2 - Thu Jul 16, 2009 6:59 PM EDT
              phil barker-900080

              I don't know if Joyce bashes him, but I do. The U.S. Government will waste thru mismanagement, and corruption more money in one month of trying to be "an insurance company" than the president of Joyce's insurance company will make in a lifetime.

              • 1 vote
              #8.3 - Thu Jul 16, 2009 8:21 PM EDT
              El Jibaro De Lytle Creek

              Phil

              That is because Supreme Court Justice John Roberts has ruled that it is okay to terminate whistleblowers who identify Government corruption. You may not be aware but it is written in the catholic Bible "Blessed are whistleblowers for you will be unemployed". Yes there is waste and even more corporate and governmental mismanagement, that is because ethical workers will be punished in our society for doing the right Thing. Let us watch more TV and laugh out loud, for we be the biggest joke! Oy Veh?

              El Jibaro de Lytle creek

                #8.4 - Thu Jul 16, 2009 9:49 PM EDT
                Van - Bloomington

                There are many reasons why healthcare, and insurance, costs so much... and it's not just because CEOs and the like are highly paid.

                I read recently that doctors in New York pay $400-600,000 a year in malpractice insurance.

                How many years, and how much money, does it take for a person to become a doctor in this country? Shouldn't they be fairly rewarded?

                These high-tech machines we cram in every nook and cranny of our hospitals are not cheap, and require years of use to pay off.

                Has anyone considered the fact that perhaps the high cost of healthcare is due to as much to reasons like these as much as it is due to waste, corruption, overcharging, greed on the part of the insurance companies, etc.?

                  #8.5 - Thu Jul 16, 2009 11:19 PM EDT
                  Bill-541803

                  Without question – medical diagnostic equipment is very expensive – with that said though let’s take a look at a theoretical example to see what is going on. Let’s say a hospital purchases the newest and greatest MRI machine. Cost for such a piece of equipment is without a doubt astronomical. But – if the average cost for an MRI is 1300 to 1400 dollars and the hospital does 20 of them a day then the amount garnered by said equipment is between $26000 and $28000 for one day and if we allow for operation for 5 days a week then that little clanking machine took in between $130000 and $140000 dollars and if allow for 52 weeks in a year then that whirling magnetic behemoth took in between $6760000 and $7280000 dollars in a year. If the hospital gets ten years worth of use out of that one machine then the figures are $67600000 and $72800000 so I believe we can safely state that while the machines may cost a fortune they also make a fortune for the institutions using them. And while doctors in this country must attend and over come huge obstacles to be licensed physicians I want you to remember – 50 per cent of all doctors – no matter what their field – finished in the bottom of their classes. Period.

                  So, the cost of the equipment is actually negated by the amount of money they bring in. the matter of the physicians is completely different though because while 50 percent of them may deserve the money they charge the other 50 per cent are just along for the ride and the country club memberships. Those are the doctors who cause an increase in health care.

                  Greedy shyster ambulance chasing lawyers are also a problem in so much as they are largely responsible for the high cost of mal-practice insurance which inflates the all of the doctors charges. I personally feel that the largest part of high medical cost is basically human greed and what is better known as the “God “ complex. Has anyone out there ever really tried to argue with your personal family physician? Most of them won’t listen to a thing you have to say or ask because by “ God “ they are the doctor and they know more than you do. Never mind the fact that it is your body and you know is something is wrong – he doc doesn’t care because it is time to herd ‘em up run’em through and charge them over $100 for a fifteen minute office visit. I call that overcharging my friend! Period!

                    #8.6 - Thu Jul 16, 2009 11:58 PM EDT
                    Van - Bloomington

                    Good points, Bill. I've wondered how long the hospitals would go on charging as much as they do for an MRI after the thing has been paid off. How could they justify charging anything apart from the technical people needed to operate it, overhead, etc.?

                    Similarly, the ambulance-chasing lawyers are a big reason why malpractice insurance costs so much, but Obama has already indicated he will do nothing to keep jury awards down.

                    Regarding what doctors are paid, if you make an effort to reduce their standard of living it will make it harder to recruit the tens of thousands of additional doctors we're going to need for nationalized healthcare. I mean, there are millions of people out there who have no doctor today. We can't ask the existing doctors to somehow fit them into their schedule.

                      #8.7 - Fri Jul 17, 2009 10:31 AM EDT
                      Reply
                      Patrick J

                      The recovery will not begin until small business elects to play the game again.

                      See my article above about Private Capital.

                      The bottom line for those who do not live with Mother, work at Universities, or work for the Government is that you need jobs funded by Private Capital.

                      Not going to happen in this economy for several years.

                      70% of the hiring is by small business and we are not investing and hiring in an environment where we are going to pay an increase in VIG to the government of about 7 to 10 points. Simple as that.

                      We also can not get Loans as the 1 trillion debt crowds out private capital.

                      No jobs for you, any time soon.

                      This is the Change you asked for, just a repeat of the 1930s. 10 years of lost prosperity.

                      If the market was allowed to clear since December 2007, it would have cleared by now and we would be in a recovery.

                      But cutting taxes is so unfair, so stay unemployed.

                      • 3 votes
                      Reply#9 - Thu Jul 16, 2009 4:07 PM EDT
                      '53 Korean Vet

                      Patrick-- The Change you thought were coming--is actually spelled "Chains" like "Ball & Chains" to an immovable mountain called "Debt"-!!

                        #9.1 - Thu Jul 16, 2009 9:20 PM EDT
                        ksmith111

                        10 years of prosperity?? What bazaar world are you living in?

                          #9.2 - Fri Jul 17, 2009 12:34 AM EDT
                          Reply
                          MicSavvy

                          How is all of this okay again? I must be mistaken because I thought I heard something about regulations, monopolies, investigations...? And yeah Goldman Sachs has like 50 people working in the government... is this not a conflict of interest at some point. Damn state colleges... I knew I should have gone to an Ivy League School where they teach Criminality 101 and Book Cooking 304! Maybe then I would understand how to rip off the public, have no accountability, and then have the balls to ask for a handout by the public.

                          • 4 votes
                          Reply#10 - Thu Jul 16, 2009 4:10 PM EDT
                          donnatyler25Deleted
                          littlebear-765725

                          I don't feel a bit sorry for those big banks -- I tried to refinance with CitiMortgage and because my credit score was not above 740, I would have been charged points in the amount of over $9000.  That amount would have been added to my balance, thus taking me longer to payoff my mortgage.   I guess they really don't want to help the common consumer.

                          • 1 vote
                          Reply#12 - Thu Jul 16, 2009 4:15 PM EDT
                          Joyce-1177091

                          So much for the banks getting the money out to us little guys.

                          • 1 vote
                          #12.1 - Thu Jul 16, 2009 6:34 PM EDT
                          Vito123

                          it is fault that you did not pay on time

                            #12.2 - Thu Jul 16, 2009 7:27 PM EDT
                            '53 Korean Vet

                            Vito-- They didn't have a book-keeper that knew your name, so they put on a late chg! You sent $10, they gave you a nickel credit! So the late charge was $15, so now you owe them an additional total of $15.95 besides the late-charge for this month!

                              #12.3 - Thu Jul 16, 2009 9:27 PM EDT
                              Reply
                              tomturket

                              Yeah, and now wait till big government saddles you with its health care reform plan. Name just one federal operated program that has ever helped middle America. Just one? Can you? At the rate things are going, Goldman Sachs will run health care too, and they won't run it for yor benefit. But lets just keep having change for the sake of change. Goldman Sachs loves that! The current administration can appoint some more of their greedy souls to operate all "change" programs.

                              • 1 vote
                              Reply#13 - Thu Jul 16, 2009 4:17 PM EDT
                              KARLMHOLM

                              The current administration! LMAO BBV- BLAME BUSH VOTERS

                              You neo cons kill me, do you believe your own BS??? lmao lmao

                              5 months to fix 8 YEARS of tax breaks for the rich, deregulation and 4 trillion STOLEN in a phony planned for profit war?

                              Wow the rest of the world is right, youneo cons are the most ignorant cretins on the planet...

                              There will never be justice in the United States until this drunken @!$%# Bush and VP Cheney are jailed for mass murder, corruption, flagrant violations of the law, and his refusal to recognize human rights. They also responsible for the worst attack on the United States since Pearl Harbor. They are directly responsible for the misery and lost hopes of millions of human beings because of his reckless handling of the American economy.

                              Since the New Deal, Republicans have been on the wrong side of every issue of concern to ordinary Americans; Social Security, the war in Vietnam, Iraq,equal rights, civil liberties, church- state separation, consumer issues, public education, reproductive freedom, national health care, labor issues, gun policy, campaign-finance reform, the environment and tax fairness. No political party could remain so consistently wrong by accident.

                              The only rational conclusion is that, despite their cynical "family values" propaganda, the Republican Party is a criminal conspiracy to betray the interests of the American people in favor of plutocratic and corporate interests, and absolutist religious groups.

                              • 6 votes
                              #13.1 - Thu Jul 16, 2009 4:22 PM EDT
                              ToxicChemist

                              Republicans have been on the wrong side of every issue of concern to ordinary Americans

                              Really? we'll see just how well the democrats do on "every issue of concern to ordinary Americans" in the next 2 years.

                              No political party could remain so consistently wrong by accident

                              In my view (that of an independant), I could say the same for YOUR party.

                              Cap & Trade = Tax increase on the average American family's electric, oil, nat. gas or gasoline bills + increased consumer prices (by companies passing on their cost increases). BTW, it didn't work in europe, as only select (read liberal) individuals profited, while the average family footed the bill. Don't believe me? In this country that will be Al Gore, GE and Goldman Sachs who will benefiet, while WE pay the price in higher cost of EVERYTHING. And it didn't even help clean up the air!!!

                              Value Added Tax = Tax increase on the average all of the average American family's purchases.

                              Income Tax increase = Tax increase on the average American family's income. You don't think all of the stimulus money came from no-where do you. They're already talking about raising state income taxes here where I live.

                              Inflation = Tax increase on the average American family's purchases. The dollar is worth much less as they continue to print money with nothing to back it up.

                              Govt. Health Care = I am certian that this will cost me in some way. Right now, I have insurance that works, albiet could be better. But, we're going to totally revamp what we have to pick up the 40M uninsured, 12M+ are not even legal citizens. Ask youself, how well does the govt. run Medicaid, Medicare, Social security, VA Hospitals?

                              5 months to fix 8 YEARS of tax breaks for the rich

                              My family is not rich by no means, but we did much better during those 8 years than we are doing now, despite all of the stimulus money being shelled out now. My retirement portfolio was 50% more during those yearsthen now, by comparrison.

                              They also responsible for the worst attack on the United States since Pearl Harbor.

                              By that logic, Clinton was responsible for the '93 bombing of the WTC. Oh yeah, those guys hated us even back then. Even as far back as the 70's with the Iran hostages.

                              • 2 votes
                              #13.2 - Thu Jul 16, 2009 4:48 PM EDT
                              molly-668860

                              Please go drink your kool aid now. I can't take anymore justification for this administration by way of bashing the old administration. You bashed Bush for the 8 year he was in office--now it's our turn. Sit down and raise your hand next time!

                              • 5 votes
                              #13.3 - Thu Jul 16, 2009 4:55 PM EDT
                              wtoc

                              pluto , i wish it were true , that it did kill you

                              • 1 vote
                              #13.4 - Thu Jul 16, 2009 5:40 PM EDT
                              CBWY777Deleted
                              Dave-787408

                              Jump ship-the captain's crazy!

                              • 2 votes
                              #13.6 - Thu Jul 16, 2009 6:31 PM EDT
                              Mary-268849

                              I was thinking that myself....we'll be known as N. Korea of the Far West very soon.

                              • 1 vote
                              #13.7 - Thu Jul 16, 2009 6:38 PM EDT
                              Undescribable

                              Interesting Analogy CBWY777

                              If your military education taught you anything it is to be respectful and diligent of your commander in Chief rightfully elected by the citizens of this Great Nation and the bible helps to interpret that as faith!

                              and North Korea was never more proud of a undermined democraticly elected ex-pres with help of daddy steal a presidency in history and then evaporate all restrictions with a country detonating Nuclear warheads. I hope you can comfort your children and grand children with those Facts! Staying on topic you can take that to your Bank !

                                #13.8 - Thu Jul 16, 2009 8:51 PM EDT
                                '53 Korean Vet

                                Undescribable-- "What War were you in--!!" Sounds like you were with Teddy Roosevelt in the Spanish-American War-!! Since later, we had F.D. Roosevelt. when they o.k.--ed making the experiments for the 1st Atomic-Bomb!! He was a Democrat, I didn't think you disliked those "Famous Democrats" in our History-Books!!

                                  #13.9 - Thu Jul 16, 2009 9:51 PM EDT
                                  Undescribable

                                  53 Korean Vet

                                  Thank you for your service whether volunteered or drafted I have several deceased relatives that served that episode. I am actively engaged in this war of terror, a war which has never been encountered nor a face to engage mearly a faucet of deception and deceit. I take great offense of party affiliates who don't contribute but bash rightfully elected representatives of this Great nation, If we don't stand up to tyranny of domestic or foreign abuses all is lost!

                                  The A-Bomb ended the war unfortunatly citizens paid the price for the Emperors blasphemy, No tears here Sir !

                                    #13.10 - Thu Jul 16, 2009 10:15 PM EDT
                                    '53 Korean Vet

                                    Undescribable-- Thanks for your courteous reply! There were two of us who enlisted in July 1951 on the same day! 5 yrs & 7mos later, I came back, but my Buddy didn't! He had been killed! A 50% chance doesn't leave me with bragging rights, because two times I owed someone else for saving my life, who took a "Risky" chance to make things come out with a better ending! I had a normal childhood until I became a young adult at 19! At that point, I had the pleasure of saving someone else's Life! No news-story, or anything--But I was just glad to have been handy, & happened to do things smartly, so everything worked out for the Best! Before I was 36, on 3 other separate & isolated occasions, I again lucked out & saved 3 more lives! Again, no medals, or newspaper stories--I never felt like I deserved any! Just things happened, & I was nearby, & was just glad that everything worked out for the Best! Does make you feel good, however!!

                                    • 1 vote
                                    #13.11 - Fri Jul 17, 2009 2:49 AM EDT
                                    Reply
                                    Boffo the clown 2

                                    BHO, his cronies & the Media are trying to spin this as a 'positive economic upturn'... when reality is that they are pulling the wool over the eyes of the sheep in society - face it; you & your respective generations have been fleeced for generations to come...

                                    • 2 votes
                                    Reply#14 - Thu Jul 16, 2009 4:17 PM EDT
                                    Willow-124447

                                    I am soooo glad that JGMorgan Chase & Co are doing so well. It makes me feel much better. But the rest of the economy still stinks, unemployment. Let's all pretend that the economy is doing better, just like the media pretends with their make-believe stories.

                                    For the second time this week, a major banking giant has jolted Wall Street with surprisingly strong earnings. On Thursday, JPMorgan Chase & Co., bolstered by strength in investment banking, reported a 36 percent increase in second quarter profit that beat analysts' expectations.

                                    • 2 votes
                                    #14.1 - Thu Jul 16, 2009 4:28 PM EDT
                                    Undescribable

                                    Ha ha ha ha ahhhh...

                                    yea experts arent they all fukk up and get a giant bonus while all taxpayers get a aboner to the behind! Investigate the investigators !

                                    • 1 vote
                                    #14.2 - Thu Jul 16, 2009 5:37 PM EDT
                                    Mary-268849

                                    Where's all the regulators? Nowhere... Obama has more Czars than Russia.......what's with that? Five BILLION dollars was allotted to help with the foreclosures.....WHERE'S ALL THE MONEY? And what the hell are they doing with all the houses that are being foreclosed? King Obama needs to answer some questions.

                                    • 1 vote
                                    #14.3 - Thu Jul 16, 2009 6:43 PM EDT
                                    '53 Korean Vet

                                    Mary-- I hadn't realized it--until you pointed it out-!! You're right-!! Obama's using the same Titles that 'Old Russia' had-!! The Czars of Russia were their Rulers!! He's thinking of dividing it up into these United States of New Russia--!! I knew he had read too many pages from those Russian Implants of 1950--who had a son, "Saul Alinsky", who wrote a Book about creating a "Bloodless Revolution & taking of America-!" AND Obama taught a group called ACORN from it's materials-!! He said, they were only one of his Clients-as a lawyer!! Looks like we're getting a deep-look inside Obama's mind-!

                                      #14.4 - Thu Jul 16, 2009 10:16 PM EDT
                                      DB Akron

                                      Chase was never in any danger of needing help. They were selected because they had toxic loans that were uninsured. But they had ample capital to cover any losses because they wisely did not over expose themselves to the toxic loans like many others did.

                                        #14.5 - Fri Jul 17, 2009 12:54 AM EDT
                                        Reply
                                        KARLMHOLM

                                        The problem is right in from of you!

                                        Crony capitalism! We need a real peoples government to seize these companys.

                                        Throw in nationalizing the oil companys too. If not quit whing and either change this system or live with it....

                                        The prerequisite for the nationalization of the banks and their subordination to the needs of society is an independent political movement of the working class on the basis of socialist policies. It is a question of state power. No capitalist government can or will carry out this task. What is required is a political and revolutionary struggle to establish a workers’ government.

                                        • 1 vote
                                        Reply#15 - Thu Jul 16, 2009 4:20 PM EDT
                                        osamaobama

                                        WOW...Che, buddy...where have you been ?

                                          #15.1 - Thu Jul 16, 2009 4:24 PM EDT
                                          wtoc

                                          were`nt the nazy`s a workers gov`t

                                            #15.2 - Thu Jul 16, 2009 5:49 PM EDT
                                            Don Stockstill

                                            What you are talking about is something akin to the government estasblished by the Bolsheviks in Russa in November 1917 and lke the one proclaimed by Mao Tse Tung in October 1949. Communism failed with both nations so why would we want it here?

                                            • 2 votes
                                            #15.3 - Thu Jul 16, 2009 6:04 PM EDT
                                            hilobamacaine

                                            because we know what we are doing and will get it right this time? hahaha! couldn't keep a straight face any longer

                                              #15.4 - Thu Jul 16, 2009 8:51 PM EDT
                                              Reply
                                              deadonDeleted
                                              Loyd Eskildson

                                              Stop coddling and bailing out high-living Wall Street gamblers and bankers, and corporate CEOs who are ruining Main Street through outsourcing jobs to Asians and illegal aliens, rising mortgage and credit-card defaults, and personal bankruptcies, stagnating/declining inflation-adjusted incomes, and ever-rising tax rates. Fire our economists and hire instead those protecting Asia from imports while leading China and South Korea to rising prosperity.

                                              • 3 votes
                                              Reply#17 - Thu Jul 16, 2009 4:20 PM EDT
                                              PRD-660244

                                              Here in Volusia County, Fl. June forclosures are up 41% over May of this year. Where is the help from these banks our government said would come. I still smell crap and a revolution is near. This cannot continue without bloodshed. Prepare!!!

                                              • 2 votes
                                              Reply#18 - Thu Jul 16, 2009 4:21 PM EDT
                                              osamaobama

                                              Assuming that we can vote out the entire Democrat population in the House of Representatives in 2010 and can pick off the Dem Senators over the next 6 years, any idea how long it will take to recover from our high dive into Socialism ? I think it's a given Barry is a one termer...that's why he's in such a hurry to screw up the rest of the economy.

                                              • 4 votes
                                              Reply#19 - Thu Jul 16, 2009 4:22 PM EDT
                                              KARLMHOLM

                                              I was wondering when we could hang the right wing plutocratic, anti worker neo cons that support this immoral oligarchy where people lie, cheat and steal their way towards wealth and THINK they earned it. Then..they bitch about paying taxes.. ON THE MONEY THEY STEAL! These cons, what Christians huh?

                                              • 1 vote
                                              #19.1 - Thu Jul 16, 2009 4:29 PM EDT
                                              osamaobama

                                              Pluto...call Mickey...you need some serious help. I think they make drugs for your problem if that's not already your problem.

                                              • 1 vote
                                              #19.2 - Thu Jul 16, 2009 4:31 PM EDT
                                              Joyce-1177091

                                              Obviously, Pluto thinks that lining the riches pockets are only limited to the Repulicans. Take off the rose colored glasses Pluto.

                                              • 1 vote
                                              #19.3 - Thu Jul 16, 2009 6:44 PM EDT
                                              Reply
                                              KARLMHOLM

                                              The word itself-"socialism"-may still carry the distortions of recent experience in bad places usurping the name. But anyone who goes around the country, or reads carefully the public opinion surveys over the past decade, can see that huge numbers of Americans agree on what should be the fundamental elements of a decent society: guaranteed food, housing, medical care for everyone; bread and butter as better guarantees of "national security" than guns and bombs; democratic control of corporate power; equal rights for all races, genders, and sexual orientations; the rejection of war and violence as solutions for tyranny and injustice.

                                              • 2 votes
                                              Reply#20 - Thu Jul 16, 2009 4:26 PM EDT
                                              osamaobama

                                              That's odd... I know a lot of people and don't know a single one that feels that way. I think you'd have to talk to Hugo Chavez or Fidel Castro or Nancy Pelosi to get any agreement on that statement.

                                              • 2 votes
                                              #20.1 - Thu Jul 16, 2009 4:29 PM EDT
                                              Mary-268849

                                              I know "of" a few...but they're on crack.

                                              • 1 vote
                                              #20.2 - Thu Jul 16, 2009 6:54 PM EDT
                                              '53 Korean Vet

                                              Pluto-- We have a place that covers all those things that you cherish, & loved to speak about--It's called an "American Prison"!! 3 hot meals a day, & a cot-!! Hospital facilities are a little out-dated, but still functionable! However, "No Guns or Wars Allowed" And the "Justice-Code" treats everyone the same!! Plus, you get your own number on your uniform to use! They furnish 'Bars' for every room as security--but no liquor, it's "Bad for your Health"-!!

                                                #20.3 - Thu Jul 16, 2009 10:33 PM EDT
                                                Reply
                                                Jay Thomson

                                                "If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them will deprive the people of all property until their children wake up homeless on the continent their Fathers conquered."

                                                -Thomas Jefferson

                                                • 7 votes
                                                Reply#21 - Thu Jul 16, 2009 4:31 PM EDT
                                                osamaobama

                                                True dat !!

                                                • 1 vote
                                                #21.1 - Thu Jul 16, 2009 4:32 PM EDT
                                                Reply
                                                deadonDeleted
                                                louis laureyssens

                                                goldman sash is only the one.it is time to send them an independent auditor to find out how nice they manipulated the figures . everything can be munipulated nothing is clear. and the administration is the worst we ever had.Wy they needed to give away the peoples money to the greedy banks because they are one of them .they transformed overnight the peoples money in their money the right word is steeling or looting.People let us unite and turn our backs to all this liars parasites of the system, and the president talk about transparency,what a flop

                                                  Reply#23 - Thu Jul 16, 2009 4:38 PM EDT
                                                  lvingbarefoot

                                                  I'm sure glad Paulson and Geithner were able to take care of their friends and say FU to all of the hometown banks.

                                                  • 1 vote
                                                  Reply#24 - Thu Jul 16, 2009 4:44 PM EDT
                                                  Wilfred of Ivanhoe

                                                  There are thousands of small, independent community banks that are doing well, especially considering the state of the overall economy. It is the so-called "super regionals" and their far flung, too-big-to-manage empires that are hurting. Before deregulation, banks would never have been able to create these multi-state monsters by going across so many state lines. They need to be broken up.

                                                  • 1 vote
                                                  Reply#25 - Thu Jul 16, 2009 4:44 PM EDT
                                                  Mary-268849

                                                  I took my money out of Bank of America and went with a smaller local bank....they don't seem to be having as many problems. And I get a monthly report on how they're doing. Quite well..I might add. It would be great if more people would do this.....we could at least try to give those blood sucking big banks a run for their own money.

                                                  • 1 vote
                                                  #25.1 - Thu Jul 16, 2009 6:57 PM EDT
                                                  LondonAtlanta

                                                  I agree Mary!

                                                    #25.2 - Thu Jul 16, 2009 9:57 PM EDT
                                                    Reply
                                                    The Beev

                                                    They may not have had Goldman Sachs, J.P. Morgan, AIG, and a host of other "shady" mega-corporations that propped up a bunch of stuffy-shirt fat cats.........but France experienced the "Storming of the Bastille", guillotines, and revolution under the same inequities we are experiencing now. When are we...(the people) going to man-up and fight the good fight? I have nothing against honest wealth. Do not covet or envy another person's good fortunes provide it is legit....but so much of this crap is downright highway robbery. We, the tax payers are getting hosed for under-performing companies that mis-managed their accounts. Now they are in the BLACK, able to pay out new bogus bonuses.......and WE are just giving them our hard-earned money.

                                                    Come on people! It's time to react to this out-right RAPE.

                                                    • 2 votes
                                                    Reply#26 - Thu Jul 16, 2009 4:45 PM EDT
                                                    Cant wait to be poor

                                                    Amen Beev!

                                                      #26.1 - Thu Jul 16, 2009 6:31 PM EDT
                                                      LondonAtlanta

                                                      Unfortunately Beev it seems the majority of people are more interested in how Michael Jackson died or who Jon Gosslin is dating. They would rather bury their heads in the sand. Disgusting but true!

                                                        #26.2 - Thu Jul 16, 2009 9:59 PM EDT
                                                        Reply
                                                        WildBill-888667

                                                        Pluto, I don't know how to say this without appearing impolite but you seem to have some serious mental issues. I don't say this to be mean but everything you post is so full of hate you seem like what one hears when they listen to skinheads or any other hate group. You need to step back from the edge and take a deep breath, clear your head, and then re-enter the discussion when you get past your hate and have something constructive to add to the conversation.

                                                        • 2 votes
                                                        Reply#27 - Thu Jul 16, 2009 4:46 PM EDT
                                                        tfox

                                                        Chase is one of the most criminally run organizations in the U.S., especially their Credit Card unit! I'll explain later, after I file complaints with the BBB, FTC, AG, and Federal Reserve... Get the picture?!!!

                                                          Reply#28 - Thu Jul 16, 2009 4:53 PM EDT
                                                          Bighorn

                                                          The subject is suppose to be about banks not investment banking. Its doubtful that JPM or Golden Sacts have ever made a loan to a small business, a direct residential loan to a new home buyer, a agricutural loan to a small farmer that grows crops anywhere or any other type of loan made by real commercial regional banks. JPM and Goldman Sacts are Wall Street investment houses that wheel and deal in bond trading and other stuff that real commercial lending banks do not get involved in. These phony so called Wall Street banks just changed their name to a bank so they could get their hands on the stimulus monies from the government to stay in business on Wall Street. They were also close buddies ( and still are ) with our political pundits that currently call the shots in Washington.

                                                          • 1 vote
                                                          Reply#29 - Thu Jul 16, 2009 4:54 PM EDT
                                                          F. Lynn

                                                          And now that you have saved them, the evil soulless bankers will turn and bite the hand that feeds them....... "Radix malorum est cupiditas!"

                                                            Reply#30 - Thu Jul 16, 2009 4:59 PM EDT
                                                            RandyNason

                                                            I don't think the banks have learned a GD-ed thing. They'll f- up again, you can BANK on it.

                                                            • 1 vote
                                                            #30.1 - Thu Jul 16, 2009 5:03 PM EDT
                                                            F. Lynn

                                                            They cannot help it, their mindless greed drives them into frenzies of evil. Demons they are, one and all.

                                                              #30.2 - Thu Jul 16, 2009 5:08 PM EDT
                                                              Reply
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