Newsvine
  • Welcome
  • Help
  • Report Bug
  • Conversation Tracker
  • Your Column
  • Replies
  • Friends
Type Comments Since You Last CheckedArticle Source Last Checked Stop Tracking All Clear Tracking All
Advertise | AdChoices
Log In | Register
Close the Login Panel
Existing users log in below. New users please register for a free account.

New Users:

Existing Users:

E-Mail:
Password:
Forgot Password?
Please enter the e-mail address or domain name you registered with:
E-Mail/Domain:
Back to Login
Log Out
  • Top News
  • Local News
  • World
  • U.S.
  • Sports
  • Politics
  • Tech
  • Entertainment
  • Science
  • Business
  • Health
  • Odd News
  • More
    • Arts
    • Education
    • Environment
    • Fashion
    • History
    • Home & Garden
    • Not News
    • Religion
    • Travel
What is Newsvine?

Updated continuously by citizens like you, Newsvine is an instant reflection of what the world is talking about at any given moment.

Get a Free Account
Help
Fun Stuff
  • Your Clippings
  • Leaderboard
  • E-Mail Alerts
  • Top of the Vine
  • Newsvine Live
  • Newsvine Archives
  • The Greenhouse
  • Recommended Articles
  • Wall of Vineness
Put a Seed Newsvine link on your own site

Deal with 'Blue Dogs' sets up health care vote

Wed Jul 29, 2009 4:05 PM EDT
business, politics, us, health-care, overhaul, house-democrats, bipartisan-senate
David Espo, AP Special Correspondent
< PreviousNext >
showing 1 of 5 photos
<p>President Barack Obama gestures during a town hall on health care reform, Wednesday, July 29, 2009, at Broughton High School in Raleigh, N.C. (AP Photo/Haraz N. Ghanbari)</p>

President Barack Obama gestures during a town hall on health care reform, Wednesday, July 29, 2009, at Broughton High School in Raleigh, N.C. (AP Photo/Haraz N. Ghanbari)

Advertise | AdChoices

WASHINGTON — After weeks of turmoil, House Democrats reached a shaky peace with the party's rebellious rank-and-file conservatives Wednesday to clear the way for a vote in September on sweeping health care legislation.

Bipartisan Senate negotiators reported progress, too, on a bill said to extend coverage to 95 percent of all Americans without raising federal deficits.

"We're on the edge, we're almost there," said Sen. Charles Grassley of Iowa, the senior Republican involved in the secretive talks, although a fellow GOP participant, Sen. Mike Enzi of Wyoming, dissented strongly.

Sen. Max Baucus, D-Mont., chairman of the Finance Committee, said preliminary estimates from congressional budget experts showed the cost of the emerging Senate plan was below $900 billion and would result in an increase in employer-sponsored insurance — conclusions that may reassure critics who fear a bloated bill that prompts businesses to abandon the coverage they currently provide.

Across the Capitol, House Democratic leaders gave in — at least temporarily — to numerous demands from rank-and-file rebels, so-called Blue Dogs from the conservative wing of the party who had been blocking the bill's passage in the last of three committees.

The House changes, which drew immediate opposition from liberal lawmakers, would reduce the federal subsidies designed to help lower-income families afford insurance, exempt additional businesses from a requirement to offer insurance to their workers and change the terms of a government insurance option.

At their core, both the House bill and the plan under negotiation in the Senate are designed to meet President Barack Obama's goals of spreading health coverage to millions who now lack it, while slowing the skyrocketing growth in health care costs nationally.

Obama has placed the issue atop his domestic agenda, and as recently as two weeks ago was pressing the House and Senate insistently to pass separate bills by the end of July or early August.

The White House issued a statement praising the development in the House, and with appearances in North Carolina and Virginia, the president sought to minimize the significance of the slippage in his timetable.

"We did give them a deadline, and sort of we missed that deadline. But that's OK," Obama said. "We don't want to just do it quickly, we want to do it right."

In his appearances, Obama stressed that any legislation he signs will include numerous consumer protections, including a ban on insurance company denials of coverage based on pre-existing medical conditions. A White House fact sheet left room for insurers to continue charging higher premiums based on prior health problems.

Rep. Mike Ross of Arkansas, a leader of conservative and moderate "Blue Dog" Democrats, said the changes agreed to by the leadership in the House bill would reduce costs in the bill by about $100 billion over 10 years. But the new break for small businesses, among other changes, also increased costs substantially, so it wasn't clear that the deal actually generated net savings.

While Baucus reported the Senate Finance measure carried a price tag of under $1 trillion, congressional officials said it included only the cost of the first year of a 10-year, $245 billion program to increase doctor fees under Medicare. House Democrats used a similar sleight of hand, excluding the entire $245 billion when claiming their measure wouldn't add to the deficit.

The House deal was worked out over hours of talks that involved not only Democratic leaders but also White House officials eager to advance the bill. Senior congressional aides cast it as a temporary deal, saying leaders had not committed to support it once the bill advances to the floor of the House in the fall.

As word of the agreement spread, liberals fired back. "We do not support this," said Rep. Lynn Woolsey, D-Calif., co-chair of the Progressive Caucus. "I think they have no idea how many people are against this. They can't possibly be taking us seriously if they're going to bring this forward."

Plans to convene the Energy and Commerce Committee for a vote slipped until Thursday as leaders sought to allay concerns of liberals.

"We just need to get everybody on board," said Rep. Frank Pallone, D-N.J., who chairs the panel's subcommittee on health.

Whatever the longer-term budgetary or political ramifications, Democrats said the way was now clear for the committee to approve its portion of the legislation, the last step before it comes to the floor for a vote.

"We're hoping to get a bill out before we leave ... this week," said Rep. Henry Waxman, D-California, the panel's chairman.

In the Senate, Baucus, Grassley and two other senators from each party have been negotiating for weeks in hopes of agreeing on compromise legislation. Both men face considerable pressure from their respective parties — Baucus not to stray too far from Democratic objectives, Grassley not to hand the president a political victory.

Republican Sen. Enzi dissented strongly from any impression that a deal was imminent. "There are big issues that haven't been resolved. We haven't even gotten to the little issues," he told reporters. He also minimized the importance of Baucus' claim, saying the Congressional Budget Office has yet to provide a cost estimate "because no precise bill language is available yet."

Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., has given Baucus months to see compromise across party lines is possible, and he told reporters during the day he expects a bipartisan plan to emerge.

The pace of decisions appears to have accelerated in recent days, with negotiators all but settling on a tax on high-cost insurance plans to help pay for the bill, as well as a new mechanism designed to curtail the growth of Medicare over the next 10 years and beyond.

More problematic from the Democrats' point of view is a tentative agreement to omit a provision in which the government would sell insurance in competition with private industry. In its place, the group is expected to recommend nonprofit cooperatives that could operate at the state, regional or even national level.

Nor is any bipartisan recommendation likely to include a requirement for large businesses to offer insurance to their workers. Instead, they would have a choice between offering coverage or paying a portion of any government subsidy that noninsured employees would receive.

Like the House bill, the bipartisan proposal under discussion would expand eligibility for Medicaid to 133 percent of the federal poverty level.

It provides for federal subsidies for individuals and families up to 300 percent of poverty, less than the 400 percent in the House measure.

Even if the negotiations succeed before the Senate's vacation, it is not clear when the Finance Committee would vote.

The proposal would have to be blended with a more liberal measure that was approved last month by the Senate Health, Education Labor and Pensions Committee. It would then go to the Senate floor, where Democrats have 60-40 majority rather than the 3-3 lineup that Baucus and Grassley have led for months.

House Republican conservatives, relegated to the sidelines of the debate, unveiled a $700 billion health care plan with tax credits to help defray the cost of insurance.

Unlike Democratic plans, it would not set up new federally regulated purchasing pools for individuals and small businesses. Instead, it would allow individuals to use the Internet to purchase lower-cost coverage if available anywhere in the country. It would provide grants to states to help set up high-risk pools for people with medical problems who are denied coverage by commercial insurers.

The GOP bill also would limit jury awards for pain and suffering, and create new courts with specially trained judges to decide medical malpractice claims.

___

Associated Press writers Liz Sidoti, Alan Fram, Erica Werner and Ricardo Alonso-Zaldivar contributed to this story.

© 2009 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.
  • Enjoy this article? Help vote it up the 'Vine.

Back To Top | Front Page

Published to:

  • David Espo's Column, All of Newsvine
  • Groups: none
  • Regions: United States , Washington DC
  • Public Discussion (131)
Jump to discussion page: 1 2
R. Donald Snyder

More problematic from the Democrats' point of view is a tentative agreement to omit a provision in which the government would sell insurance in competition with private industry.

If there is not a real government option then it is not health care reform, it is health care reform failure. Co-ops are not a real government option, they are a cave-in that would make bill a joke.

  • 16 votes
#1 - Wed Jul 29, 2009 4:50 PM EDT
agio

So long as the public option is in the House bill, it can be reconciled in Committee with the sucky Baucus bill.

  • 6 votes
#1.1 - Wed Jul 29, 2009 4:57 PM EDT
chanseng-1243251

Real health-care reform will need a public option are it is just a bill that has wasteful spending. That true that if this bill is passed it will be a failure.

  • 7 votes
#1.2 - Wed Jul 29, 2009 5:07 PM EDT
JoulesBeef

might as well given the gop everythign they wanted.. surprised it didnt include a measure making bush';s tax cuts perm.

this is a BS attempt to change the story on tv.. "we have a plan and now we are going on vacation for a month and hope when we come back the media si talkign about something else'

it really is health care failure.. designed to kill the idea of health care reform permanently.

So long as the public option is in the House bill,
sorry if I dont have your faith.

We wil get this BS health care reform and the general sheeple wont understand when obama trys to explain the reason why it isnt working is the fact that it is not what he asked for.

The current plan will make your premium skyrocket and do nothing to address the looming failure of all our govenment health care services.

we need to let the dems know this isnt some minor issue they can play games with.. the people will balme the blue dogs and the gop is this doesnt get done. Sure the dems have a 60 seat majority, but 1005 of the gop is voting no with a few blue dog dems.. it is still THE CONSERVATIVES that are blocking this.

Unfort i think the rank and file dems are scared that if they dont pass something even something crappy the gop will take over in 2010 and 2012.

and mind you the people who would ahve been asked to help pay for the public plan are the same people we are tryign to get to pass this,, rich politicians.

  • 6 votes
#1.3 - Wed Jul 29, 2009 5:08 PM EDT
Bubba-939441

"Unfort i think the rank and file dems are scared that if they dont pass something even something crappy the gop will take over in 2010 and 2012."

You got it joules. Somebody make some big promises that can't be kept. Obama promised a free lunch. Not only a free lunch, but a tax cut. It can't be done.

  • 6 votes
#1.4 - Wed Jul 29, 2009 5:17 PM EDT
proud2bconservative

This is just more ammunition for the GOP. The Democrats fighting amongst themselves and then finally voting for a broken healthcare plan. The Democrats will shove this stupid healthcare option down our throats and then wonder what went wrong when they are tossed out of office.

Finally.

  • 7 votes
#1.5 - Wed Jul 29, 2009 5:23 PM EDT
Entelechy

The co-ops aren't a bad idea, it's just that the restrictions being placed on them will make them uncompetitive. There needs to be no cap on the size of business that can join them and they should be exempt from corporate income tax per 501c. That would definitely make them competitive.

  • 4 votes
#1.6 - Wed Jul 29, 2009 5:24 PM EDT
Eric AlbertDeleted
Traps

good news on the public option, but I still think reform is needed. Let Obamam fix Medicare before he takes on the whole system.

  • 3 votes
#1.8 - Wed Jul 29, 2009 5:54 PM EDT
Kathleen54

In the Senate, Baucus, Grassley and two other senators from each party have been negotiating for weeks in hopes of agreeing on compromise legislation. Both men face considerable pressure from their respective parties — Baucus not to stray too far from Democratic objectives, Grassley not to hand the president a political victory.

Here it is in a nutshell. The goal of the GOP is not to reform anything; rather to prevent the president from getting a 'political victory'. That's what they care about. The hell with the Americans who are suffering even as they windbag their way around congress, pulling all the teeth out of this bill.

  • 4 votes
#1.9 - Wed Jul 29, 2009 6:15 PM EDT
JoulesBeef

You got it joules. Somebody make some big promises that can't be kept. Obama promised a free lunch. Not only a free lunch, but a tax cut. It can't be done.
Typical gop nonscense.. so bush can have two wars and a tax cut but we cant have health care?
we spoend 8 times the rest of the world.. opnly about 20% of americans dont have health care.. you think the might america cant reduce that to only 4 times as much as everyone else and not only cover that 20% but also have a ton left over for pandemics? Pretty @!$%#ty view of america you have there.

Let Obamam fix Medicare before he takes on the whole system.
Lol more typical gop nonscence.
You do know medicare is more effective and is cheaper than private insurance?
You do know that the crap we agreed on was all the cost cutting to medicare?
mediccare is fixed.. to get fixed any more we have to bring downt he cost of ALLLLL HEALTH CARE.
that can not be done tinkering with medicare alone.. but the gop knows this.. and thats why they make up these BS complains like you guys parrot.

  • 4 votes
#1.10 - Wed Jul 29, 2009 6:39 PM EDT
CL1

The last 3 paragraphs stating the GOP's $700 bn plan sounds the better one to me. The most  plausible and fair to individuals, business and doctors (malpractice suits have become unethical).

  • 6 votes
#1.11 - Wed Jul 29, 2009 7:27 PM EDT
Eric AlbertDeleted
Icon of Sin

@ Eric

This has nothing to do with class, class wars, imperialism, oligarchies, or empires. Your constant use of discredited leftist buzz words completely eliminate and credibility you might have.

  • 3 votes
#1.13 - Wed Jul 29, 2009 7:45 PM EDT
Tim Lucas

I just wonder if anyone is keeping score. You wonder what I am talking about? The amount of times Obama talks out of both sides of his mouth. Indians refer to it as having a forked tongue. We both know what that is. The bill of goods are represented the same way, a bare faced lie for what you have and what they want to give you for it. Your sweat and toil for a place in the health care line where you likely will be cheated out of your life as the indians out of their property and then their life. It's the same white man with a agenda but instead of hating indians, he just hates everyone and mostly those that make over $100,000. We are all going to enjoy that trickle up proverty. Good Luck..

  • 5 votes
#1.14 - Wed Jul 29, 2009 7:47 PM EDT
Behind My Screen

why is the republican "proposal" the best? Because it is the biggest corporate giveaway?

Corporate giveaways are not free market solutions. If you think you are supporting the free market by supporting the Republicans, then you have some waking up to do. All you are doing is supporting the corporate take over of the US.

  • 4 votes
#1.15 - Wed Jul 29, 2009 7:52 PM EDT
Eric AlbertDeleted
CL1

BMS -- I don't know who your 1.15 is directed to, but my above comment is meant as the better of the two evils. I don't want gov healthcare at all, if I could have a choice. However, I don't like the direction that malpractice suits have gone. Nobody is forced to take their doctors recommendations. If one chooses to, then they must accept the consequences. Nobody forced you to take meds. You do so at your own risk. Doctors aren't Gods; they are just people doing a job like anyone else.

  • 2 votes
#1.17 - Wed Jul 29, 2009 9:28 PM EDT
OverIt-789030

We need healthcare not insurance companies and their aggravation. The insurance companies take your insurance premium money but they spend half of it on administration that sends papers and documents that deny your coverage.

The only people who support the current broken system are the employees of insurance companies (I wonder if they deny coverage to their own employees.) or people who really don't understand the problem or people at the feeding trough of the insurance companies.

Obama's mother was sick with ovarian cancer when the insurance company denied payment for her care. Obama understands the problem first hand.

He will change the system just as LBJ changed the system. He will have to endure the threats but he will do what is right for American workers and taxpayers. This is why he was elected.

Many older people who were young when LBJ passed medicare despised him for it but now they are very pleased to be able to have medicare coverage.

  • 2 votes
#1.18 - Wed Jul 29, 2009 9:30 PM EDT
GlassMan30

We are all going to enjoy that trickle up proverty. Good Luck..

This is an all-too-real, but seldom considered idea.

  • 5 votes
#1.19 - Wed Jul 29, 2009 9:40 PM EDT
CL1

He wants to take away from medicare to have funds to spend on those who are 'more worthy of receiving care' with a 'scientific approach' based on your ability to pay and life expectancy. I don't think this is the best approach for "American workers and taxpayers". All of our lives have equal value. We shouldn't be forced to die because of our inability to pay, while those funds are being used on someone else that could potentially have the same outcome.

  • 4 votes
#1.20 - Wed Jul 29, 2009 9:43 PM EDT
Jack TX

The only people who support the current broken system are the employees of insurance companies (I wonder if they deny coverage to their own employees.) or people who really don't understand the problem or people at the feeding trough of the insurance companies.

Why is it, that when anybody says "this particular action is a bad idea" they are assumed to "support the current broken system"?

It's like saying "I'd rather go to Olive Garden as opposed to Red Lobster," and being told "Well, if you don't want to eat you can just starve."

  • 1 vote
#1.21 - Wed Jul 29, 2009 9:51 PM EDT
Bev-341827

How many hours a day do you suppose the big 0 spends looking in the mirror practicing his poses?

His favorite is the above pictured. You know the one finger point. He's got the" hey Mom, look at me, I'm on the phone", the "I'm GQ man" and the "hmm, deep in thought" pose.

What a joker. I don't know how anyone can take this fake seriously.

  • 4 votes
#1.22 - Wed Jul 29, 2009 11:25 PM EDT
E Partholan

The Congressional plan flow chart includes an 'Office of Minority Health'. Should we assume that is intended to appropriate health care resources on the basis of Affirmative Action?? Do ANY of our 'Representatives' even know the answer to this?

BTY-Public option worked really 'well' in Hawaii and Ma. Don't see any reporters asking O to explain why it will be different this time round ?

    #1.23 - Thu Jul 30, 2009 1:58 AM EDT
    Nicey-1026620

    The GOP bill also would limit jury awards for pain and suffering, and create new courts with specially trained judges to decide medical malpractice claims.

    That's a good idea we are not discussing.

    That woman mentioned it on Jon Stewart the other night. She said she had lost two doctors simply because they weren't going to pay the 200,000 malpractice insurance for her practice.

    But tax breaks are a bad idea. Why is anyone wanting to add more, and more tax code? If you want to give them a break just repeal taxes that already exist.

    And none of this addresses profit. As long as medical services are in it for profit as public companies they aim for 10% earnings growth every year, and since the amount of patients stay relative, and salaries typically go up with inflation, they raise prices to get that earnings growth.

      #1.24 - Thu Jul 30, 2009 1:22 PM EDT
      Pacific Northwest Blogger

      Conservative Democrats Most Vulnerable If Health Reform Fails

      Progressive Dems Balk At Health Care Compromise: "We Might Have To ... Start Over"

        #1.25 - Thu Jul 30, 2009 1:23 PM EDT
        CL1

        Nicey --- I think it said $245 bn over 10 years for physician's increase it in the proposal, but only the first year was reflected now. That's a good increase for them.

          #1.26 - Thu Jul 30, 2009 1:29 PM EDT
          Nicey-1026620

          We're sick of this because we're not getting what we want. We wanted healthcare overhaul and one side decided no to pretty much everything, and then the other side decided they needed to compromise, which the majority don't want.

            #1.27 - Thu Jul 30, 2009 3:07 PM EDT
            herecomedajudge

            "NO!". It is the most beautiful word a free person can say to the government and we've said it. I'm proud to say "NO!" to Obama, Reid, and Pelosi. And I hope America tells them "NO!" some more, especially November 2010.

            • 2 votes
            #1.28 - Thu Jul 30, 2009 3:53 PM EDT
            Reply
            Pacific Northwest Blogger

            FiveThirtyEight: Politics Done Right: The Baucus Bill's Bad Math

            Does this look familiar to anyone?
            -- No employer mandate
            -- No public option
            -- But yes, an individual mandate

            Now, how are those 15 million people going to feel about health care reform when they find out that:

            a) Although the bill was supposed to guarantee access to health insurance, they've in fact lost theirs;
            b) They're required to buy an expensive, private plan on their own, or to pay a fine;
            c) They're probably not getting any government assistance;
            d) They certainly don't have any Medicare-like alternative to fall back upon;
            e) All of this cost the country about $1 trillion dollars.

            You think those 15 million people are going to vote for the Democrats again, like, ever?

            • 10 votes
            Reply#2 - Wed Jul 29, 2009 4:52 PM EDT
            JoulesBeef

            i agree .. it's liek they totally capitulated to the gop are they whimps?

            this is 100% the gop plan.
            costs us a ton, does nothing btu make big business massive bucks.

            • 8 votes
            #2.1 - Wed Jul 29, 2009 5:09 PM EDT
            Ryan-

            Joules, this is 100% Democrat. Is it news to you that the Democrat's control everything, or do you just want to make a preemptive excuse, for the failure they are in the process of creating?

            • 11 votes
            #2.2 - Wed Jul 29, 2009 5:42 PM EDT
            Eric AlbertDeleted
            Eric AlbertDeleted
            JoulesBeef

            Ryan-
            I know goprs have reading comprehension problems but perhaps you shoudl read what the gop iniatially offered as a counter plan to the dems and then tell me which one it resembles more?

            and tell me who formed the blue dogs and what party is he in now?

            co-ops was a GOP suggestion
            forcing people to buy insurance was a GOP suggestion
            no public plan was a gop suggestion
            and yoru right they couldnt be here without the help of dems
            but I'm not making a premeptice excuse I am pointing out reality. You knwo that big thing yall fear so @!$%#ign much.. the TRUTH.

            • 3 votes
            #2.5 - Wed Jul 29, 2009 6:40 PM EDT
            Ryan-

            JoulesBeef, reading compensation problems? You can't even write English. Learn it then make that comment.

            The bottom line, this is 100% Democrat, you can deny it all you want, but they wrote it, and they will pass it. Send your thanks to Nancy and Harry for me.

            P.S. Maybe you could sit down and read the bill with John Conyers. lol

            • 8 votes
            #2.6 - Wed Jul 29, 2009 8:03 PM EDT
            Reply
            R. Donald Snyder

            The Baucus "compromise" is his payment back to the insurance companies for the 30 pieces of silver they gave him.

            • 14 votes
            Reply#3 - Wed Jul 29, 2009 4:57 PM EDT
            BCW

            Amen R Donald Snyder.

            • 7 votes
            #3.1 - Wed Jul 29, 2009 5:08 PM EDT
            Bubba-939441

            I'm in agreement with Donald again. Scary.

            • 8 votes
            #3.2 - Wed Jul 29, 2009 5:19 PM EDT
            R. Donald Snyder

            This must the "end of days".

            lol!

            • 5 votes
            #3.3 - Wed Jul 29, 2009 5:22 PM EDT
            Traps

            it may be.

            I'm not laughing

            • 5 votes
            #3.4 - Wed Jul 29, 2009 5:55 PM EDT
            vol fan in chatt, tn

            oh my, we agree on something.

            • 6 votes
            #3.5 - Wed Jul 29, 2009 5:56 PM EDT
            Reply
            whatanoddguy

            I will not vote for any Senator or Congressman who votes for a plan that does not include a public option. I will not vote for any Democrat at the federal level until 2016 if there is not a publicly financed healthcare system in 2012. Obama loses my vote if he does not veto this co-op nonsence. Not having insurance is ony half the problem, the other half is that insurance companies provide inadiquately for our healthcare needs.

            • 6 votes
            Reply#4 - Wed Jul 29, 2009 4:58 PM EDT
            JoulesBeef

            so you will vote GOP?
            it's like voting agsint the guy stabbign you for the guy who is going to shoot you.
            I'd say stick with your first threat. VOTE AGIANST THOSE WHO VOTE FOR A PLAN THAT DOESNT INCLUDE A PUBLIC OPTION.
            which will be every single solitary GOPr and all the blue dogs which are goprs who couldnt win as goprs in theri home states.

            • 3 votes
            #4.1 - Wed Jul 29, 2009 5:13 PM EDT
            Bubba-939441

            Get the Dems out in 2010 and your man is a lame duck.

            • 10 votes
            #4.2 - Wed Jul 29, 2009 5:21 PM EDT
            whatanoddguy

            If the democrats @!$%# up healthcare then why should I care if they win or lose? They've already retreated on dont ask dont tell and last I heard guantanamo is still in operation. Healthcare is the last straw, if they dont give me real change I'll vote Green, or write myself in.

            • 7 votes
            #4.3 - Wed Jul 29, 2009 5:25 PM EDT
            R. Donald Snyder

            I'll run my pet dog Sally in 2012. She is a dog, that's true, but she's certainly not a blue one.

            • 5 votes
            #4.4 - Wed Jul 29, 2009 5:32 PM EDT
            Kathleen54

            Oddguy, you may count on my vote if this stupid 'cooperative' entity replaces the public option.

            • 4 votes
            #4.5 - Wed Jul 29, 2009 6:17 PM EDT
            Traps

            Are you sure she isn't an Ass Don?

            • 1 vote
            #4.6 - Wed Jul 29, 2009 6:20 PM EDT
            R. Donald Snyder

            No, actually she's a Shih-Tzu. She's the small white and brown one in my avatar, with the bright stripped sweater. Why do you ask? Is owning pet asses common where you come from? Or are you someone's pet?

            • 1 vote
            #4.7 - Wed Jul 29, 2009 6:33 PM EDT
            JoulesBeef

            I'll vote green, I'll vote libertarian, I've vote communist before i vote for the GOP again and you would be wise to do the same.
            the GOP gave us this mess.
            the gop are the reason why we need health care reform.

            or rather the corporate party which is 100% of the GOP and a minority of dems.

            • 4 votes
            #4.8 - Wed Jul 29, 2009 6:43 PM EDT
            Traps

            No, but a donkey and an ass is an Obama you know democrat ha-ha funny not ha-ha Don.

            I thought you would understand that silly joke then most on here or I wouldn't have said anything. My bad I will have Joules explain it for you next time.

            She is a cute dog though. Even though she is owned by an Ass.

            See I did it again you are a democrat=donkey=Ass. I only talk about it because it is true.

            Oh and to stay on topic. Obama fix Medicare first. Once you are successful at that move on to the hard stuff.

            • 3 votes
            #4.9 - Wed Jul 29, 2009 8:32 PM EDT
            R. Donald Snyder

            Your weak attempt at trying to justify calling me names by saying that it's OK since the Democratic Party is represented by a Donkey is juvenile, ignorant, transparent and a personal attack. Hopefully it will be deleted.

            As for myself I'll be putting you on my ignore list as I don't bother to even read childish posts such as yours. You and your 5th grade mentality will not be missed.

            • 3 votes
            #4.10 - Wed Jul 29, 2009 9:27 PM EDT
            Traps

            Nice try. You called me as Ass first Don.Turn about is fair play don't try and act tough because you attempted to put me down and someone actually fought back. You can't ignore everyone who stands up to your bullying. Me other others some even close to you. We all can't be wrong.

            I can't be more happy to be ignored by an ignorant. Good riddance.

            • 4 votes
            #4.11 - Wed Jul 29, 2009 9:49 PM EDT
            Reply
            chanseng-1243251

            Blue dog democrats wanted to delay the health-care bill until they change what ever they wanted and change the public option. Now they want to get it pass before the break. This is not going to help Americans it just going to waste money we have to get a real reform. The bill should have a public option that will lower prices and bring competition to provide better health-care.

            • 6 votes
            Reply#5 - Wed Jul 29, 2009 5:05 PM EDT
            JoulesBeef

            actually they want not vote before the break
            they want 1 month of news on somethign else.. anything else.
            so they can screw you in the dark.

            • 5 votes
            #5.1 - Wed Jul 29, 2009 5:10 PM EDT
            Reply
            Andy-827327

            Deal with 'Blue Dogs' sets up health care vote

            Until the Pelosi idiot left members, refuse to go along with the changes put in the bill to make the Blue dogs happy...this is entertaining to watch, can't wait to see the video of all the town hall meetings Democrats have over the summer recess and watch them get their a$$es handed to them by the voters...lol.

            • 10 votes
            Reply#6 - Wed Jul 29, 2009 5:15 PM EDT
            jawill11

            I hope they do hear what their voters really want. Since the vast majority of them want real reform and a solid public option, the ones currently holding it up and capitulating to the GOP might change their tune.

            We all know why they're doing this: they are getting big bucks from the insurance companies. The only thing to combat that is for the voters to show them that they can be voted out in a primary if they choose to represent their corporate donors over their actual constituents.

              #6.1 - Thu Jul 30, 2009 11:46 AM EDT
              CL1

              As cynical as I am when it comes to politicians, that didn't occur to me, jawill11. I forgot that the only thing politicians listen to is 'money'. Thanks for reminding me.

                #6.2 - Thu Jul 30, 2009 12:20 PM EDT
                Reply
                FL Independent

                I have to say I have some issues with this article. Look at the language they used:

                the party's rebellious rank-and-file conservatives

                Rebellious because they do not just do what they are told by told leaders and maybe listen to their constituents (or perhaps their donors)? They are rank and file instead of the so-called 'elites' who are in control?

                numerous demands from rank-and-file rebels

                Again trying to negatively portray them and that they have numerous demands. Did the so called elites not have numerous demands as well?

                It seems they like to paint those that have objections to the language/structure of the bill, whether for legitimate reasons or not, as being the problem instead of the legislation itself or the corrupt individuals writing it.

                It was unclear, though, what commitments Speaker Nancy Pelosi or the administration may have made to support the agreement once the bill advances to the floor this fall.

                It should be made clear how people were bought off.

                And this is just an outright lie:

                Obama said. "We don't want to just do it quickly, we want to do it right."

                If that was true you would take a few months and discuss these bills openly with the public and get some input. But no politician really wants that do they? Not that they will read the bill's themselves. And for all the people that say 'well they have staff..etc'. That doesnt matter. The specific language used in the bill, in any bill, is key. If they are not actually reading the bill themselves, they dont know what is being passed.

                As John Conyers (D) plainly states regarding this bill:

                “What good is reading the bill if it’s a thousand pages and you don’t have two days and two lawyers to find out what it means after you read the bill?”

                • 13 votes
                Reply#7 - Wed Jul 29, 2009 5:22 PM EDT
                vol fan in chatt, tn

                true. guess we know which side of the fence they sit on.

                • 6 votes
                #7.1 - Wed Jul 29, 2009 5:59 PM EDT
                Reply
                EllieP

                At their core, both the House bill and the plan under negotiation in the Senate are designed to meet President Barack Obama's goals of spreading health coverage to millions who now lack it, while slowing the skyrocketing growth in health care costs nationally.

                Yeah? How's that gonna operate exactly? All I hear is more of this:

                While Baucus reported the Senate Finance measure carried a price tag of under $1 trillion, congressional officials said it included only the cost of the first year of a 10-year, $245 billion program to increase doctor fees under Medicare. House Democrats used a similar sleight of hand, excluding the entire $245 billion when claiming their measure wouldn't add to the deficit.

                What a bunch of liars. There are no specifics for reducing costs, only how we're going to finance cost increases.

                • 10 votes
                Reply#8 - Wed Jul 29, 2009 5:26 PM EDT
                vol fan in chatt, tn

                and still nothing about ambulance chasers and tort reform. What a waste.

                • 5 votes
                #8.1 - Wed Jul 29, 2009 6:00 PM EDT
                Reply
                Thinking Citizen

                Obama is going to RUIN the Health care of millions of American Citizens with his bad plan...................he is the most selfish person on earth!

                • 9 votes
                Reply#9 - Wed Jul 29, 2009 5:45 PM EDT
                JoulesBeef

                wow how inciteful.. funny how every other country can manage to do it but america cant.. what a sorry view of america the gop have,

                • 4 votes
                #9.1 - Wed Jul 29, 2009 6:44 PM EDT
                Thinking Citizen

                No country that has "government -run health care" is a sucess! Not one.
                Those countries have high death rates from cancer, much higher than the USA.

                No country has EVER had a sucessful governmnt take-over of health care. That's why so many people flock here, to the USA, for good treatment! They would rather "live" by being treated in the USA, than die in their own countries bad heath care system.

                • 8 votes
                #9.2 - Wed Jul 29, 2009 6:50 PM EDT
                Andy-827327

                Funny how the people from those countries who managed to get government heath care keep coming to the US for their health care treatment.

                • 9 votes
                #9.3 - Wed Jul 29, 2009 6:51 PM EDT
                JoulesBeef

                NOT ONLY CAN I DO BOLD BUT I CAN DO IT BIGGER THAN YOU

                thinking citzen you might want to investigate those claims a bit more.. only canda lags us with cancer and only slightly.. but they beat us in everythign else including the #1 killer of american heart disease.
                we are also dead last in preventable deaths from timely and effective health care.

                we have 100k more deaths than other countries for this reason.

                no country has sucessful gov run health care.> THEY ALL @!$%#ING DO>. that is if you take off the gop koolaid filled glasses.

                we have millions going to mexico for health care.
                and hey andy you too read this...

                it turns out your claims about them coming here are just more republican lies.. WE ACTUALLY GO TO OTHER COUTNRIES FOR HEATH CARE AND MEDS FAR MORE THAN ANYONE COMES HERE.
                heck the gop had to make a law preventing our northern citizens from skipping accross the border for cheaper prescriptions.

                we are 45th in life expectancy and like i showed above DEAD @!$%#IGN LAST IN PREVENTABLE DEATHS.

                hey thinking citizen.. maybe stop THINKING A BIT and ACTUALLY LEARN SOMETHING FOR A CHANGE

                NOTICE I HAVE LINKS.. they dont.. but dont listen to me or them./.. LOOK IT UP
                and you will see

                THE GOP DEPEND ON YOUR IGNORANCE TO SPREAD THEIR DECEIT

                • 5 votes
                #9.4 - Wed Jul 29, 2009 7:03 PM EDT
                Socalgal

                Wow, I can actually read that most words are spelled correctly.

                I do not agree with the last sentence but I can read it.

                He is making improvement.

                • 2 votes
                #9.5 - Wed Jul 29, 2009 8:26 PM EDT
                Patriotic Dissenter

                They would rather "live" by being treated in the USA, than die in their own countries bad heath care system.

                What sealed the deal that America is the premier country for healthcare is when that nitwit with TB was over in Italy. His father-in-law was a microbiologist at the CDC and he advised his son-in-law to get back to USA by ANY MEANS NECESSARY. Why would someone knowledgable about TB and influencial at the CDC tell him to do whatever he can but don't stay in Europe or he'll die? Easy. The USA has the world's best healthcare and if a microbiologist at the CDC doesn't care about the spreading of the disease to get back here than I have to believe that European healthcare sucks. But just like the economy and the UnStimulus bill, BO will ram through his legislation whether or not it will destroy America. Arrogance and stupidity run hand in hand with BO and his administration.

                • 4 votes
                #9.6 - Wed Jul 29, 2009 9:30 PM EDT
                vol fan in chatt, tn

                Our doctors and treatments are best by far than what everyone else has. It may not be the cheapest, but you get what you pay for.

                • 4 votes
                #9.7 - Wed Jul 29, 2009 10:06 PM EDT
                Reply
                I am the Crusader

                So if I understand, you think the only true reform is a public option. Even though the public option might put private insurance out of business. It wouldn't create the open market you think it would because no one can compete with the deep pockets of the government who can afford to take a loss because they will simply tax the hell out of individuals to make it up.

                I haven't read this entire bill they are suggesting or rather the changes and I'm not saying I'm for it or against it yet, but I find it funny that everyone who was supporting this piece of legislation suddenly turns on it because it doesn't include a public option. Are you for Health Care reform and fixing the rising costs or are you more interested in living on the taxpayer's dime?

                • 3 votes
                Reply#10 - Wed Jul 29, 2009 5:46 PM EDT
                Kathleen54

                Crusader,

                So if I understand, you think the only true reform is a public option. Even though the public option might put private insurance out of business.

                And that would be bad because.......???

                • 1 vote
                #10.1 - Wed Jul 29, 2009 6:20 PM EDT
                Jack TX

                I think you're missing the point, here.

                This is kinda like that discussion you have with your 5 year old daughter. She wants a pony, and despite the fact you live in the city she doesn't want to listen to "how bout a cocker spaniel instead." She tells you that she is absolutely sure that only stupidheads think that ponies and pony poo stink, and that if you were a good daddy you would buy her a pony.

                Welcome to liberal politics. In fairness, conservative politics aren't any better, but that's at topic for another time

                • 6 votes
                #10.2 - Wed Jul 29, 2009 6:27 PM EDT
                JoulesBeef

                yeah cause as we can see raising taxes is soooo easy
                and since the dems iniatiated PAY GO...the pockets of the us gov arent so deep.

                so tell em how did the go kill ups with the post office?
                obviously they killed the security guard industry with cops?
                No i know they kiled off science research with theri own research?
                they killed off private schools with those awesome public shool where ever desk has it's own plazma tv

                funny as @!$%# the gop claim the gov cant run a lemoaid stand but would make a public option so damn good it would kill private industry that is better in every way

                if yall cant tell who is blowing smoke up your ass with paradoxes like that i cant help you.. but you might want tog et back on the short bus where you belong.

                • 4 votes
                #10.3 - Wed Jul 29, 2009 6:49 PM EDT
                Jack TX

                Ok Joules, I'll play.

                Why do we issue food stamps? Why doesn't the US Government open its own grocery stores instead?

                Why do we buy fighter jets from Lockheed or tanks from GD? Why aren't there US Govt factories making all this stuff?

                Why do we issue Section 8 housing vouchers? Surely the better option would be to have government building crews construct houses for these families.

                Why does the government buy its electricity from private utilities? Why not build a whole network of US Govt power plants?

                On second thought, don't really think about any of that. Just keep telling yourself that everyone who disagrees with you belongs on a "short bus".

                • 9 votes
                #10.4 - Wed Jul 29, 2009 7:25 PM EDT
                I am the Crusader

                Why didn't the Post Office kill UPS? That's really an easy answer. The Post Office was established long before UPS came about and UPS/Fed Ex the rest offered something that at the time the Post Office really wasn't into. So even when the Post Office decided to do overnight, UPS and Fed Ex had a well developed product that people were comfortable with. The Post Office competes, but their overall market share just isn't that great.

                Police vs Security Guards to two separate functions.

                Private Schools vs Public Schools, again apples and oranges, the private option is for the wealthy or well to do, ask most parents whether they would want their kids to go Public or Private, I can tell you where I would prefer mine.

                Now what other Apples to Orange comparisons do you want.

                • 2 votes
                #10.5 - Wed Jul 29, 2009 8:31 PM EDT
                Reply
                Smokie-788412

                I'm sure disappointed with this new development from the Democrats. Looks like Obama Care will be on it's way again. I sure feel sorry for this country under the Obama Administration. Congress has let the likes of Obama take over over this nation. When Congress approved the take over of private enterprise they allowed the undoing of the America we know and worked so hard to make great.

                • 7 votes
                Reply#11 - Wed Jul 29, 2009 5:51 PM EDT
                JoulesBeef

                yeah why cant we have a president like ronald reagan again.. you know when the s&l's hit the fan he didnt try to take over the industry.. he didnt put in a bunch of regualtions

                huh what... oh never mind he did..

                OH i see your complainign obama is the next reagan.

                you do know we owned continetal bank until just a few years ago thanks to your god reagan.

                Ncie to knwo the GOP is so ignorant about it's own damn history.

                • 4 votes
                #11.1 - Wed Jul 29, 2009 6:51 PM EDT
                Socalgal

                And that would be bad because.......???

                You are exchanging one controller/master for another. The government then becomes the controller/master. Deciding how many times you get to see a doctor to if you will be allowed treatment.

                • 5 votes
                #11.2 - Wed Jul 29, 2009 8:29 PM EDT
                Smokie-788412

                What is wrong with you people. Do you not see what is happening. Presidents Reagan nor Bush took over any private sector companies. Granted all of the Presidents let changes in regulations put us in some of the situation we find our country in. None of them bought out the Chrysler Corporation and gave 55% of it to the United Auto Workers. Think about that the employees now own 55% of the company and Obama is going to run it. Remember "We the People" now own and operate GMC, 80% of AIG and the two famous ones Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac and now we are fixing to take over the health care insurance industry. The White House wants to run all of this. Do you think that is wise?

                Use that head of yours for more than a hat rack. You do have some kind of brain up there. If "We the People" own in operate all of these companies than can you agree we should own all private enterprise? We have some of the biggest ones now. Gee if we keep this up we will be like China were the government owns all and you will be told where to work at what wage and at what place. They are setting pay rates for some of these companies now. Is that the right thing for the White House to do? Don't think this is a crazy mans idea just look at what is happening. This is the first time in our history that the government has taken over private business and decided to run them out of the White House. Find a history book and do some reading.

                If you agree with the policies that the "Obama Bunch" is setting in place I guess you won't mind him telling you anything. He is not the King of American. That went out of style a long time ago. That's why we started the United Sates after beating the British in the Revolutionary War. Maybe another revolution would set things straight again?

                • 2 votes
                #11.3 - Wed Jul 29, 2009 11:29 PM EDT
                jawill11

                You are exchanging one controller/master for another. The government then becomes the controller/master. Deciding how many times you get to see a doctor to if you will be allowed treatment.

                There will always be someone making that decision unless you are rich enough to afford care out of pocket.

                I would rather have it done by a government that is directly accountable to the people than by a company with little regulation and a profit motive. Furthermore, I can see the results of the privately run system and it sucks.

                  #11.4 - Thu Jul 30, 2009 11:55 AM EDT
                  CL1

                  Well, instead of allowing a corrupt government system to tell us what we can have, who we can see and if we are still young enough to be considered worthy of human life, why not regulate the other corruptor, private insurance, so we can still feel like we have choice in our lives?

                    #11.5 - Thu Jul 30, 2009 12:24 PM EDT
                    jawill11

                    As long as we are in agreement that we should have some choice in our lives, why not let people choose which one they would rather have, the private or the public insurer?

                      #11.6 - Thu Jul 30, 2009 12:29 PM EDT
                      Jack TX

                      As long as we are in agreement that we should have some choice in our lives, why not let people choose which one they would rather have, the private or the public insurer?

                      That's only going to be possible temporarily. If the public health plan can force providers into taking 20% less than they charge their private counterparts, then over the next several years the private market will evaporate, and the only choice I'll have will be the public plan.

                      When it started looking like the public plan was going to have to play by the same rules as private companies, the supporters of the plan started screaming. It's difficult to believe that they want any choices at all other than their own.

                      • 1 vote
                      #11.7 - Thu Jul 30, 2009 1:06 PM EDT
                      CL1

                      I think that will happen over the next several years, also. However, the public, if unhappy down the road could put pressure on the system to re-generate private options. Happened in Australia according to another poster.

                        #11.8 - Thu Jul 30, 2009 1:33 PM EDT
                        Reply
                        determined0a1

                        I like the set up of Obama selling his program of healthcare in a Supermarket with the customers.

                        • 3 votes
                        Reply#12 - Wed Jul 29, 2009 6:06 PM EDT
                        joe mota

                        the GOP plan would leave my wife unable to get coverage due to pre-existing condition, so it's completely useless to me. status quo. a tax credit for premiums is absolutely worthless if the insurance companies are still allowed to screen for pre-existing conditions....we need a set of national requirements along with regional cost controls. the current status quo sucks. Dems can pass health care without republicans and I hope they do. The people kicked out the repubs because they proved themselves to be a worthless pack of lying thieves. And they haven't changed a bit since their last electoral failure.

                        • 2 votes
                        Reply#13 - Wed Jul 29, 2009 6:11 PM EDT
                        determined0a1

                        joe,

                        Did you read the 1,017 pages for the new healthcare whatever?

                        • 5 votes
                        #13.1 - Wed Jul 29, 2009 6:15 PM EDT
                        Kathleen54

                        Joe,

                        The people kicked out the repubs because they proved themselves to be a worthless pack of lying thieves.

                        My only disagreement with this statement is that you are being too kind to the SOB GOP.

                        • 1 vote
                        #13.2 - Wed Jul 29, 2009 6:22 PM EDT
                        EllieP

                        determined, of course he didn't...more empty rhetoric from the left.

                        • 8 votes
                        #13.3 - Wed Jul 29, 2009 6:24 PM EDT
                        Andy-827327

                        Reading some of these posts, you have to love the way the libs are still trying to blame Republicans for holding up this POS bill.

                        Half of me hopes the dems pass it just to be able to watch them get crucified in the 2010 mid terms.

                        • 7 votes
                        #13.4 - Wed Jul 29, 2009 6:38 PM EDT
                        JoulesBeef

                        yeah andy 100% opposition from the gop.. and they arent to blame for anything.
                        we have several former gops and the blue dogs a group formed by the gop holdign this up... but rememebr te gop didnt do nuttin/.. they didnt cause this mess the pooor pathetic litlte gop is alwasy the victum.. the victim of the media.. teh victim of jimmy carter and the cra.. heck we all know 9-11 was clintons fault right?

                        You know yall goprs would be funny as hell if you were so @!$%#ing dangerous to this nation.

                        • 2 votes
                        #13.5 - Wed Jul 29, 2009 6:54 PM EDT
                        Andy-827327

                        Looks like your math is as good as your spelling Joules. Democrat's don't need one GOP vote to pass any bill they want...if you have a problem with the bill not being passed take it up with them.

                        • 7 votes
                        #13.6 - Wed Jul 29, 2009 6:58 PM EDT
                        Patriotic Dissenter

                        more empty rhetoric from the left.

                        From what I read on the Vine, all the left has is empty rhetoric or the famous "But ... Reagan .... but Bush ...." filler when they have nothing absolutely cohrent to spew. If healthcare is a right in this country as the libbies love to claim than why do I have to pay for it? On multiple threads the libbies get their panties in a wad when I tell them this is tax payer funded "free" government healthcare we are talking about. And then you here the "who told you BO is offering anything for free." Who is paying for it? If I have a right to healthcare under some made up amendment, why would I have to pay for it? I have a right to free speech but I don't have to pay the governent to exercise it. Maybe a lib can explain why I have to pay for a right that should be free?

                        • 1 vote
                        #13.7 - Thu Jul 30, 2009 7:33 AM EDT
                        Reply
                        hungary1956

                        Hopefully it will fail - the majority of Americans do not want this reform or bill!

                        • 4 votes
                        Reply#14 - Wed Jul 29, 2009 7:05 PM EDT
                        Behind My Screen

                        The majority of Americans don't want a reform bill that does not reform... the Mish Mosh that the Blue Dogs and the Republicans have pushed into it have made it a huge Insurance company give away in some committees.

                        • 3 votes
                        #14.1 - Wed Jul 29, 2009 7:16 PM EDT
                        vol fan in chatt, tn

                        Which was why he wanted it done before the recess. When these guys get home to their constituents, they are going to catch *&%$ from them because they know what is in the bill better than those in Congress.

                        Here's a sampling of what they'll face:

                        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DeKEdCMxslM&feature=related

                        • 3 votes
                        #14.2 - Wed Jul 29, 2009 10:17 PM EDT
                        Reply
                        Behind My Screen

                        The best part of the healthcare bill in the house is that it allows states to choose to set up their own health care plans for their citizens if they so choose... thanks Dennis Kusinich!

                        • 1 vote
                        Reply#15 - Wed Jul 29, 2009 7:15 PM EDT
                        CL1

                        Probably best. Since I live in an extremely liberal state, this might give some incentive to move!

                        • 3 votes
                        #15.1 - Wed Jul 29, 2009 7:38 PM EDT
                        Reply
                        ScienceGuy-356641

                        No public option? Big mistake.

                        Without the public option, with respect to calling this health care REFORM, there's no there there.

                          Reply#16 - Wed Jul 29, 2009 7:15 PM EDT
                          Behind My Screen

                          With the ability for states to form their own public plans, it becomes moot what the fed plans are.

                          Canada became single payer via a province by province method. Might as well let our states decide for themselves... right conservatives who love to support the 10th amendment?

                          • 1 vote
                          #16.1 - Wed Jul 29, 2009 7:25 PM EDT
                          Reply
                          Patty Biller

                          He has 5 stars with me!!!!!

                            Reply#17 - Wed Jul 29, 2009 7:29 PM EDT
                            JFamman2k8

                            United States is a monetary system. Designed in vain for greed. Obama is bond to fail if we do not revert from a monetary system. Where money is more important then people. We have enough resources to change our way of life. But through a technique called distraction, where one has to wake up early everyday and therefore doesn't have time to really truly see what the invisible hand in this so called Democratic (Once KKK- but ignorant people don't know that) is really doing. The main objective: Ask N. Rockafeller. To create so much panic in the world, by inventing this so called TERRORIST Group called Al-Quida Causers of the 9/11 ACT {The Invisible-Hand-controlled demolition by the United States of America}(Which by the way Osama Bin Laden-was seen and checked in an American Hospital in the Middle-East-but no one talks about it anymore-because he truly never had nothing to do with it from the beginning)- that we are stripped of our Constitutional Rights out of Fear, thus we are forced to depend on the security of the Gov't(Owned by the private bank-Federal Reserve- who prints money out of thin air - with nothing to really back it up in terms of value} Thus placing us in debt as well as other nations in debt all for nothing, because the money will be eventually burnt and we will all be inserted with microchips. This chips, the size of a grain of rice, already being inserted in NEW BORNS without the parents permission or concent (in the bible called the Mark of the Beast - by the way the bible created by the gov't to control the people-offering them a false sense of hope-notice they don't pay taxes-never had-never will-but they take money(cash) from hard working people-so who do we work for? But it’s not the priests, bishop, etc- they only doing what they were programmed to do-The greatest story every told – Jesus Chris – sorry never really existed – He is the SUN GOD – not the SON of GOD as misinterpreted}. This microchip once inserted could be turned on or off at the will of the government. More control. Check it out for yourself don't take my word for it. And unlike Religion, no one is looking for followers. This is just the reality of what is happening unless we attempt to change, open up our eyes that has the wool over it- all in the name of our true freedom. All we do so peacefully. Check it out: http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com/

                            • 1 vote
                            Reply#18 - Wed Jul 29, 2009 7:39 PM EDT
                            Hugh G. ReckshenDeleted
                            JPOK

                            I cannot believe this snake oil salesman is pulling this off right before the eyes of the people referred to as America's leadership. A very sad statement on the government and the citizens who are to complacent to hold their elected leaders to task.

                            • 3 votes
                            Reply#20 - Wed Jul 29, 2009 8:41 PM EDT
                            marykay-1168279

                            none of us know whats going to be in this bill. and we should stop listening to the fear mo ngering gop because we all know that they dont want this to happen and they;re willing to say anything to stop this and what they;re actually doing is just playing games with the american people;s health care.what the president needs to do is give us all more details on what he wants or take a poll from the american people who need and want healthcare reform and then put together some kind of package that will plese everyone.so dont listen o all these gop senators that are scareing all of you into thinking obama is going to send people to kill you ortake away your medicare its all a game to them because they have greathealthcare and basically they dont care about any of you who dont.ask them how much they take from the drug and insurance companies to try and defeat this i bet they get paid thousands of dollars to work against health reform.before any of you listen to these buffoons give the president some time to get a good healthcare reform bill together.you voted for him its only been 6 months give this man more time for what took george bush 8 years to screw up!!virgiia foxx kees on saying that the reform bill they have will cut healthcare costs well how because its the same thing we have now and how much as healthcare gone up under this plan?? dont listen to any of these people we didnt vote for them for president we know their sore loosers and this is what they do.they lie and just try to scare all of you with their lies!!give obama a chance he only wants the best for all of us.i am a republicain but i refused to take the same path of ignorance they chose to take unlike them i have a heart and i care what happens to all of us.!!

                              Reply#21 - Wed Jul 29, 2009 8:49 PM EDT
                              herecomedajudge

                              We're now in a heap of blue dog doo-doo. Let them hear about it when they come home to their districts, America.

                              • 2 votes
                              Reply#22 - Wed Jul 29, 2009 9:58 PM EDT
                              upswing

                              No public option = no point.

                                Reply#23 - Wed Jul 29, 2009 10:01 PM EDT
                                Zanyzazu

                                How to Kill ..an Idea...or a Person...or whatever..........

                                Zanyzazu..here....I have been telling Viners over the last year that these people who kill are on these sites....they are the ones who continue to spew the ugly words to condem everything...they are also here now too.....pehaps not on this site. Perhaps not right this minute....no ....but all over on the political pages..yes.

                                They will be the ones who speak against seniors living past their expiration date....or the health program...or the stimulus and many things...to errode our support ...to divide and conquer.

                                It is called....lets make ...him...and you fight....it is as old as the hills and it works if people get frightened and start to freak out....they will began to make people paranoid and soon it is easy for them to have you be anti anything that these snakes want you to be.

                                Lets go to the play ground...we see a bully....the bully goes to a weaker person and says....I don't think....he/she is your friend....he/she ..is a sissy.....they are from a strange family. I don't even think he/she was born in this country...probably not a citizen.

                                The next day....hi how's it going...you didn't go to church yesterday did you? Yeah ...you are one smart guy/girl......I was afraid a nice guiy /girl like you was going to be just like that ...person I saw you with...you know the one who isnt a citizen...and kills frogs. People like that are bad people....next it will be people they kill.

                                Next day...hey buddy...looin' good....is that a new shirt...darn nice....you are one smart person...you know when I first saw you with the non citizen who kills frogs ..you know the one not born here...yeah...that freak....he has a hidden tatoo that is the kind people in other countries get who have killed people....but hey pal... we have to stick together....none of us are going to let anyone like that live. i dont know the person...but you do...and if it was me I would get a gun and have it around just in case....know what I mean?????? Ohh by the way...do you have a computer ...me and some people I know sometimes e-mail and we get a lot of good information we exchange....and if I had yours ...we could let you in on it too......

                                Two days later...an email arrives...hey good buddy wassup...we sure are glad you joined us....I was just sitting here ...lighting up a joint..and decided to pass on the news....did you hear...that..so and so is going to ....so and so next week? OK ..well....I will let you smoke your joint..... like we all do......and you have a nice night...we will keep you informed.

                                Three days later ...hey if you can get your hands on a gun...and after you smoke your joint......and are ready .....we are going to meet in the park...yeah hundreds of us...we are going to kill us some skunks...he he he......you know who I mean.......ok meet you there after midnight ...he/she will be there.........got that...Sunday night after midnight ....Jan 1st......gun in hand...we will meet you there...oh...forgot to warn you....he /she will be armed...shoot first buddy..those non citizens are dangerous ...specailly those with the mark on them....I'v e only heard rumors...but ..well he/she has been known to be after people like you....yeah ..well it is how they like.......kill...Hate to say this ..but there has been a lot of talk....on the radio...yeah...well your name was mentioned....but ...I am just covering your azz you know????????? Lookin' out for you...we got to stick together.....those people are a bunch of offy doffs...and we got to make sure we get rid of them...if not they will be everywhere...and you know who will suffer...our grandchildren.........they eat food....and our kids and grandchildern will starve...poor little babies. oh definitly...the dirty offy doffs....

                                You see once you dehumanize ...and give it a new name it is easy to kill .....

                                A spik..or dago...or @!$%#...or kike...or goober...or ...jerk... or ....Ofambo, or ...socialist....it is easy to kill....

                                It goes like this.....kill the offy doffs....and it is easy.....Killing a person with a name is very hard to do.....so never kill people .with human names.......first you re-name them...de humanize them...then kill them........

                                Kill of the offy doffs.....but you don't have to go to another country to learn this ..there are classes held right here...............................Everyday.

                                Some are Americans

                                  Reply#24 - Wed Jul 29, 2009 10:02 PM EDT
                                  vol fan in chatt, tn

                                  what are you smokin? I don't get that...AT ALL.

                                  • 1 vote
                                  Reply#25 - Wed Jul 29, 2009 10:22 PM EDT
                                  John Pileggi

                                  Certain matters, such as civil rights, involve such a moral imperative that major legislation has been and should be passed with minimum bipartisan support.  This should not be the case with health care.  We all agree that access to medical care is a basic human right, and the American people have struggled for years with the tensions involved in the desire to do good while doing it efficiently.  Legislation that does not merit some support from the opposition party will be a disaster.  16% of the US GDP is no place for political brinksmanship. 

                                  • 1 vote
                                  Reply#26 - Wed Jul 29, 2009 10:30 PM EDT
                                  Racial Profiling-1247143Deleted
                                  Jump to discussion page: 1 2
                                  Leave a Comment:
                                  You're in Easy Mode. If you prefer, you can use XHTML Mode instead.
                                  You're in XHTML Mode. If you prefer, you can use Easy Mode instead.
                                  (XHTML tags allowed - a,b,blockquote,br,code,dd,dl,dt,del,em,h2,h3,h4,i,ins,li,ol,p,pre,q,strong,ul)
                                  Newsvine Privacy Statement
                                  As a new user, you may notice a few temporary content restrictions. Click here for more info.
                                  FUN STUFF:
                                  • Leaderboard |
                                  • E-Mail Alerts |
                                  • Top of the Vine |
                                  • Newsvine Live |
                                  • Newsvine Archives |
                                  • The Greenhouse
                                  COMPANY STUFF:
                                  • Code of Honor |
                                  • Company Info |
                                  • Contact Us |
                                  • Jobs |
                                  • User Agreement |
                                  • Privacy Policy |
                                  • About our ads
                                  LEGAL STUFF:
                                  • © 2005-2012 Newsvine, Inc. |
                                  • Newsvine® is a registered trademark of Newsvine, Inc. |
                                  • Newsvine is a property of msnbc.com