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Psychologists repudiate gay-to-straight therapy

Wed Aug 5, 2009 4:41 PM EDT
us-news, us, gays, psychologists, american-psychological-association
David Crary, AP National Writer
< PreviousNext >
showing 1 of 2 photos
<p>FILE - In a Wednesday, July 20, 2005 file photo, Alan Chambers, President of Exodus International, answers a question during an interview inside a conference center, near Black Mountain, N.C. Chambers, describes himself as someone who "overcame unwanted same-sex attraction." The American Psychological Association declared Wednesday, Aug. 4, 2009 that mental health professionals should not tell gay clients that they can become straight through therapy or other treatments. Instead, the APA urged therapists to consider multiple options — that could range from celibacy to switching churches — for helping clients whose sexual orientation and religious faith conflict. (AP Photo/Alan Marler, File)</p>

FILE - In a Wednesday, July 20, 2005 file photo, Alan Chambers, President of Exodus International, answers a question during an interview inside a conference center, near Black Mountain, N.C. Chambers, describes himself as someone who "overcame unwanted same-sex attraction." The American Psychological Association declared Wednesday, Aug. 4, 2009 that mental health professionals should not tell gay clients that they can become straight through therapy or other treatments. Instead, the APA urged therapists to consider multiple options — that could range from celibacy to switching churches — for helping clients whose sexual orientation and religious faith conflict. (AP Photo/Alan Marler, File)

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NEW YORK — The American Psychological Association declared Wednesday that mental health professionals should not tell gay clients they can become straight through therapy or other treatments.

Instead, the APA urged therapists to consider multiple options — that could range from celibacy to switching churches — for helping clients whose sexual orientation and religious faith conflict.

In a resolution adopted on a 125-to-4 vote by the APA's governing council, and in a comprehensive report based on two years of research, the 150,000-member association put itself firmly on record in opposition of so-called "reparative therapy" which seeks to change sexual orientation.

No solid evidence exists that such change is likely, says the report, and some research suggests that efforts to produce change could be harmful, inducing depression and suicidal tendencies.

The APA had criticized reparative therapy in the past, but a six-member task force added weight to this position by examining 83 studies on sexual orientation change conducted since 1960. Its comprehensive report was endorsed by the APA's governing council in Toronto, where the association's annual meeting is being held this weekend.

The report breaks new ground in its detailed and nuanced assessment of how therapists should deal with gay clients struggling to remain loyal to a religious faith that disapproves of homosexuality.

Judith Glassgold, a Highland Park, N.J., psychologist who chaired the task force, said she hoped the document could help calm the polarized debate between religious conservatives who believe in the possibility of changing sexual orientation and the many mental health professionals who reject that option.

"Both sides have to educate themselves better," Glassgold said in an interview. "The religious psychotherapists have to open up their eyes to the potential positive aspects of being gay or lesbian. Secular therapists have to recognize that some people will choose their faith over their sexuality."

In dealing with gay clients from conservative faiths, says the report, therapists should be "very cautious" about suggesting treatments aimed at altering their same-sex attractions.

"Practitioners can assist clients through therapies that do not attempt to change sexual orientation, but rather involve acceptance, support and identity exploration and development without imposing a specific identity outcome," the report says.

"We have to challenge people to be creative," said Glassgold.

She suggested that devout clients could focus on overarching aspects of religion such as hope and forgiveness in order to transcend negative beliefs about homosexuality, and either remain part of their original faith within its limits — for example, by embracing celibacy — or find a faith that welcomes gays.

"There's no evidence to say that change therapies work, but these vulnerable people are tempted to try them, and when they don't work, they feel doubly terrified," Glassgold said. "You should be honest with people and say, 'This is not likely to change your sexual orientation, but we can help explore what options you have.'"

One of the largest organizations promoting the possibility of changing sexual orientation is Exodus International, a network of ministries whose core message is "Freedom from homosexuality through the power of Jesus Christ."

Its president, Alan Chambers, describes himself as someone who "overcame unwanted same-sex attraction." He and other evangelicals met with APA representatives after the task force formed in 2007, and he expressed satisfaction with parts of the report that emerged.

"It's a positive step — simply respecting someone's faith is a huge leap in the right direction," Chambers said. "But I'd go further. Don't deny the possibility that someone's feelings might change."

An evangelical psychologist, Mark Yarhouse of Regent University, praised the APA report for urging a creative approach to gay clients' religious beliefs but — like Chambers — disagreed with its skepticism about changing sexual orientation.

Yarhouse and a colleague, Professor Stanton Jones of Wheaton College, will be releasing findings at the APA meeting Friday from their six-year study of people who went through Exodus programs. More than half of 61 subjects either converted to heterosexuality or "disidentified" with homosexuality while embracing chastity, their study said.

To Jones and Yarhouse, their findings prove change is possible for some people, and on average the attempt to change will not be harmful.

The APA task force took as a starting point the belief that homosexuality is a normal variant of human sexuality, not a disorder, and that it nonetheless remains stigmatized in ways that can have negative consequences.

The report said the subgroup of gays interested in changing their sexual orientation has evolved over the decades and now is comprised mostly of well-educated white men whose religion is an important part of their lives and who participate in conservative faiths that frown on homosexuality.

"Religious faith and psychology do not have to be seen as being opposed to each other," the report says, endorsing approaches "that integrate concepts from the psychology of religion and the modern psychology of sexual orientation."

Perry Halkitis, a New York University psychologist who chairs the APA committee dealing with gay and lesbian issues, praised the report for its balance.

"Anyone who makes decisions based on good science will be satisfied," he said. "As a clinician, you have to deal with the whole person, and for some people, faith is a very important aspect of who they are."

The report also addressed the issue of whether adolescents should be subjected to therapy aimed at altering their sexual orientation. Any such approach should "maximize self-determination" and be undertaken only with the youth's consent, the report said.

Wayne Besen, a gay-rights activist who has sought to discredit the so-called "ex-gay" movement, welcomed the APA findings.

"Ex-gay therapy is a profound travesty that has led to pointless tragedies, and we are pleased that the APA has addressed this psychological scourge," Besen said.

___

On the Net:

http://www.apa.org/

© 2009 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.
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  • David Crary's Column, All of Newsvine
  • Groups: GLBT- No Justice, No Peace, Queer Agendas, Respectful Debate, The Open Closet
  • Regions: New York
  • Public Discussion (386)
Jump to discussion page: 1 2
R. Donald Snyder

The idea that you can take a gay person and use therapy to make them straight is as absurd as telling a straight person you can make them gay. Sexual orientation doesn't work like that! Besides why would a person want to? I'm straight and no amount of "therapy" is going to make me sexually attracted to other men and why would I want it to?

  • 53 votes
#1 - Wed Aug 5, 2009 6:04 PM EDT
Syntactic Tree

If one has an internal conflict, I agree with the basic suggestion of the article: find a church/religious group that will accept you, as they are certainly out there.

No religion is a monolith, and there will be interpretative differences between subgroups within the "macro-groups" of Christianity, Judaism, etc. Find a group that falls within those larger groups that accepts you as is.

  • 19 votes
#1.1 - Wed Aug 5, 2009 6:10 PM EDT
aliveinsd

Okay. This has been awhile coming. Far too long to save the lives of those devasted by such 'conditioning' therapies.

A lefthanded friend that was a youth in the late 1930's & 1940's told me that his left hand was tied behind him while he was beaten. Thus, for being lefthanded. The result is that he can somewhat write with his right hand, but prefers his left....that, and a damaged psyche that cannot be fixed. He is mentally damaged for the remainder of his life. The Bible still referred to the left hand as 'the hand of The Devil.' Nice, huh?

Gay persons are no different than those persons who are lefthanded. They have been abused, dumped-on, hated, and tormented for doing what is natural to them. They live good, honest lives, and would like no more than to participate in society as themselves. Society has damaged some Gay folk to the point that their wish is only a dream that shall never be fulfilled.

I am not Gay, but I do understand the inclination. It is time for us to step up to the plate and do what is right by these people.

  • 42 votes
#1.2 - Wed Aug 5, 2009 6:44 PM EDT
Lola-984242

You took the words right out of my mouth R. Donald. Therapy could never make me sexually attracted to another woman!

Amazing how great minds think alike! LOL!

Great article BTW

Well said aliveinsd.

  • 23 votes
#1.3 - Wed Aug 5, 2009 6:48 PM EDT
Csp

The idea that you can take a gay person and use therapy to make them straight is as absurd as telling a straight person you can make them gay.

Well DUH! The scientists have been saying this for years...its not a choice...its an actual difference in the brain...from birth.

But then those religious nuts who believe in that crap usually doint trust science about anything.

  • 31 votes
#1.4 - Wed Aug 5, 2009 6:54 PM EDT
Simplistic Reality

The idea that you can take a gay person and use therapy to make them straight is as absurd as telling a straight person you can make them gay.

Oh really? Then why do ALOT of straight guys become gay or act gay in prison after periods of time? Or do you really think all the gay sex / and bj's going on in prison is because they are all straight right? Straight guys don't do that last time I checked. lol. How do you explain that? Is its because of the environment they are in and circumstances forces them to become gay / do gay things sexually? If so.. then that would seem to proof someone can change there sexual orientation.. visa versa.

  • 7 votes
#1.5 - Wed Aug 5, 2009 7:24 PM EDT
Simplistic Reality

Well DUH! The scientists have been saying this for years...its not a choice...its an actual difference in the brain...from birth.

So your saying its a genetic defect then in essence? Noted.

  • 3 votes
#1.6 - Wed Aug 5, 2009 7:34 PM EDT
island jeff

A straight man does not become gay in prison, they just become really horny.

  • 25 votes
#1.7 - Wed Aug 5, 2009 7:34 PM EDT
The Lighthearted Liberal

Island Jeff...

Are you speaking from experience? It's alright...I won't judge you. ;)

  • 4 votes
#1.8 - Wed Aug 5, 2009 7:39 PM EDT
Lola-984242

So your saying its a genetic defect then in essence? Noted.

Why would it be a genetic defect? Is being left handed a genetic defect?

Also, I wouldn't call men who are engaging in homosexual sex in prison gay. IMO, they participate in gay sex (sometimes unwillingly) because of the lack of female partners. Once released they never participate in gay sex again. It's simply a sexual release for most, period.

  • 25 votes
#1.9 - Wed Aug 5, 2009 7:40 PM EDT
diversity

There's a thin line between "Straight, "Bi-sexual", "Gay".... Labels that's all they are labels.

What a person may be attracted to is another person regardless of gender, it happens all the time. There's no religion or choice given to what a person feels inside and who they are attracted to or fantasize about. You can't change people.... We are what we are and society needs to get used to the fact its been that way for centuries.

  • 13 votes
#1.10 - Wed Aug 5, 2009 7:44 PM EDT
Csp

So your saying its a genetic defect then in essence? Noted

Actually no. Its not so simple.

The research seems to indicate that it is a change in eposure to various hormones at various stages of brain development in the fetus.....the male brain is literally feminized in its wiring and vice-versa for the female brain

  • 13 votes
#1.11 - Wed Aug 5, 2009 7:56 PM EDT
SJ from Tacoma

Simplistic Reality - This is pretty Simple... so try to stay with me. Men in prison do not become gay... they do not change their sexual orientation. Once they get out, they are still the same heterosexual male they were before going in. The only release they have in prison is through homosexual behavior, so they really don't have a choice.

  • 17 votes
#1.12 - Wed Aug 5, 2009 7:59 PM EDT
LonoKemp

Then why do ALOT of straight guys become gay or act gay in prison after periods of time? Or do you really think all the gay sex / and bj's going on in prison is because they are all straight right? Straight guys don't do that last time I checked. lol. How do you explain that?

anecdotal nature aside, who wants to point out the logical fallacy employed here? Even though I have a feeling that won't be enough of an "explanation" for the poster above.

  • 12 votes
#1.13 - Wed Aug 5, 2009 10:06 PM EDT
Meso-575799

Hi Lono,

Better not. Might send Simplistic's brain into an infinite loop...

  • 10 votes
#1.14 - Wed Aug 5, 2009 10:33 PM EDT
Simplistic Reality

The only release they have in prison is through homosexual behavior, so they really don't have a choice.

I thought that's what masturbation is for. Also not EVERY male in prison partakes in homosexual behavior (unless they are victim of rape). I wouldn't do any homosexual behavior under any circumstances... ever. Maybe that's just me but I bet a lot would agree with me. How many of you tough guys out there can tell me you'd do it up backside or suck on some sausage if you were in prison and then convince yourself you only did it for "release". Anyone? They pass out condoms in prison too for the boys as well?

Better not. Might send Simplistic's brain into an infinite loop...

No need to be insulting Meso.

Men in prison do not become gay... they do not change their sexual orientation.

Hmm. Finding a man attractive enough to engage in gay sex, kissing, blowjobs whatever... is pretty much the definition of being gay and changing of sexual orientation. Would be bi-sexual be a better word for it?

  • 3 votes
#1.15 - Wed Aug 5, 2009 11:13 PM EDT
JECD

Never say Never,Baby!!! or Ever for that matter!!!!

  • 7 votes
#1.16 - Wed Aug 5, 2009 11:36 PM EDT
Simplistic Reality

I can say never on things I know I will never do... just like I can say I'll never stop loving my child, brother, and my parents. Some things like that.. you just know.

  • 3 votes
#1.17 - Wed Aug 5, 2009 11:38 PM EDT
R. Donald Snyder

Hmm. Finding a man attractive enough to engage in gay sex, kissing, blowjobs whatever... is pretty much the definition of being gay and changing of sexual orientation. Would be bi-sexual be a better word for it?

No, desperate is a better word for it. Most prisoners are younger men who are soaked in hormones. They do not engage in gay sex, they substitute men for women in their relationships in prison. Another male becomes a "wife" or a "girlfriend" in a very real psychological sense. The relationships, consensual or forced, are very much male on female. Once the person is out of prison though they engage in the same kind of relationships as before they were imprisoned. Therefore what happens in prison is not gay or bi-sexual, even though there may be gays and bi-sexual in prison, it is adaptation. The situation itself is abnormal and sexual human beings temporarily adapt to it.

I realize, of course, that you really don't want to understand what the difference is because you really don't give a sh*it about the truth about this subject, but I answered your question anyway for the benefit of others that may really be wondering, instead of just troll baiting like you are.

  • 13 votes
#1.18 - Thu Aug 6, 2009 12:07 AM EDT
Just_some_guy

Simplistic Reality,

Would you say that your ability to know something like this would preclude homosexuality from being a choice? When there is never any instance where you could want to do something with another man, of a sexual nature at least?

I have no idea where you stand on the idea of it being a choice, so it really is just a question.

  • 3 votes
#1.19 - Thu Aug 6, 2009 12:09 AM EDT
R. Donald Snyder

SR

You're better then this. I don't agree with you often, but you have many times put together well written posts that have real reason and logic behind them and have forced me to do some hard thinking. Then I see you in a thread like this and I wonder who you are? I mean come on! You know men and women don't "turn gay" in prison! You're smarter then that. So why do you toss out these trollish questions like this?

I doubt if it matters much to you, but there have been many times when I have been one click away from sending you a friend request and then I see your responses to this one subject. What is the whole gay issue that you're having trouble with? Can I help? Is there or are there real questions you want answered because this whole line of Bullsh*it sure as hell ain't one of them. You're better then this SR.

Randy

  • 7 votes
#1.20 - Thu Aug 6, 2009 2:46 AM EDT
Simplistic Reality

I'm not trying to engage in "troll baiting" nor am I intentionally trying to engage you and others in pettifoggery. You and some others have written some good responses that I'm mulling over. I just don't see how any straight male.. because they are locked up in prison.. with hormones or whatever would make substitutes like you explained above... just because they have "urges". What about the guys out there in the World that for whatever reason.. just can't get laid or land a chick? They don't go out and start looking for male to release there "tension".. What I meant is... engaging in homosexual behavior... and psychological thinking because of being in prison.. is being gay. Granted... they most often get out and then go back to getting with the ladies instead.. some may not. I'd hate to use a TV series as an example but if anyone has seen OZ.. a uncut unrated series of realities of prison life.. I just I don't see how anyone is dire enough to start engaging with males just because of circumstances. I just can't fathom how one can switch off there normal feelings of being straight and start thinking homosexual. I know I wouldn't do that...... ever. Those guys in prison DO have a choice to not engage in that behavior... and a lot won't do so. Some.. don't have a choice because of how common getting raped is in jail. I've had chick friends... for first 20 years of there life... be straight... date guys.. have sex with them... all that jazz... then just SWITCH and go into anti male mode and go lesbian, have girlfriends.. whatever. Some have even gone back and summed it up as "experimenting". Thats a choice too is it not? I do believe though some people are just born that way and in no way shape or form can help it... or being traumatized in a fashion at a young age influenced them to go one way or another. I don't think its such a cut and dry issue. I think there is a load of variables involved. I could be wrong..... you could be right. Guess I'm still mulling over this and trying to come to my own conclusions. I hope you'd respect that. I don't claim to have all the answers...... and I do value constructive imput. Cheers.

Eric

  • 3 votes
#1.21 - Thu Aug 6, 2009 4:50 AM EDT
Darreth01

Meso-575799

Better not. Might send Simplistic's brain into an infinite loop...

Simplistic Reality

No need to be insulting Meso.

But... but... It works SO WELL FOR YOU Simplistic!!! You spout hatred and that's OK... but when someone does it to you... "OHHHH POOR ME... I've been maligned!"

HYPOCRITE!

  • 4 votes
#1.22 - Thu Aug 6, 2009 5:01 AM EDT
Simplistic Reality

Spout hatred? Give me an example....

Because I don't agree with something, someone, a policy, or whatever.. doesn't mean I have hatred. That's a strong word and I can't think of one thing I truly "hate" to where I'd use that word.

But... but... It works SO WELL FOR YOU Simplistic!!! You spout hatred and that's OK... but when someone does it to you... "OHHHH POOR ME... I've been maligned!"

LOL! No it's not a poor me thing... its I'd rather have a discussion without the insults if possible. Maturity thing.

  • 6 votes
#1.23 - Thu Aug 6, 2009 5:37 AM EDT
Liberal Madmama

Simplistic, perhaps I can help with the idea about prisoners and their sexual proclivities. You mentioned the idea that maybe bisexual would be a better term, and in that you have come close to what is going on. When Alfred Kinsey began researching sexual behavior one of the things he discovered is that sexuality isn't always and either/or situation. Most people exist somewhere on a scale between completely heterosexual and completely homosexual. The majority of people fall closer to one end than the other, with a certain percentage coming closer to the middle, or bisexual than most. Keeping in mind the stigma attached, especially for men, with the idea of homosexuality and you can realize that there is also a percentage of the male population that exists somewhere between bisexual and homosexual but don't admit as much to their families, friends, or even to themselves at times. These men can reason with themselves when incarcerated that their inclination to have sex with men is just a release, perhaps even a necessary survival behavior. There will be men who don't have sex with other men while in prison, because they aren't inclined to do so, but men who are having voluntary sex with other men are generally bi-sexual or homosexual. This is not something they have any control over, their sexuality evolves, as everyone's does, from a combination of genetic predisposition and environmental influences, but people don't "turn gay" and then "turn back straight". Their sexuality is what it is , whether they admit it to themselves and the world or not. They don't change sexuality, they simply change behavior. One of the reasons this step by the APA is so important is because so many people have lived in differing states of denial about their sexuality, leading to various degrees of mental upset. It's important to overall mental health for people to be able to come to terms with who they are in a world where they will not be judged harshly for an aspect of their personality that harms no one.

  • 14 votes
#1.24 - Thu Aug 6, 2009 6:56 AM EDT
Simplistic Reality

Fantastic response Liberal Madmama. Thank you for your reply! That does help.

  • 6 votes
#1.25 - Thu Aug 6, 2009 7:02 AM EDT
eriq samson

Another thing you are not seeing about prison sex is the domination side of it - much is not about actual sex as about being dominant just as the fighting, body building, gangs, etc.

Whenever there are scarce resources look for dominance / submissive behaviors

  • 10 votes
#1.26 - Thu Aug 6, 2009 8:23 AM EDT
Liberal Madmama

You're very welcome, Simplistic. And Eriq, of course, you are right about that aspect of it as well.

  • 4 votes
#1.27 - Thu Aug 6, 2009 9:49 AM EDT
Greg-281912

About those hormones released by the mother during the development of the fetus:

Weirdly enough, studies have shown that in every single instance in which a woman has given birth to 10 male babies, the 11th baby is always gay! (I am not making this up.)

Seems to me that maybe mother nature decides that enough males have been born already to "spread these particular genes" and mother nature decides that the next boy will be gay. (Which doesn't stop him from reproducing anyway, it just stops the inclination to do so.)

Anyway, sexual orientation is genetic. True, some gay people can indeed decide never to act on their sexuality, or to stop acting on their sexuality, just like some straight people never act on their sexuality and remain celibate.

Mother Nature at work, nothing more and nothing less.

  • 3 votes
#1.28 - Thu Aug 6, 2009 11:20 AM EDT
Csp

About those hormones released by the mother during the development of the fetus:

Weirdly enough, studies have shown that in every single instance in which a woman has given birth to 10 male babies, the 11th baby is always gay! (I am not making this up.)

I'd like to see the scientific reference for that one......

Anyway, sexual orientation is genetic. True, some gay people can indeed decide never to act on their sexuality, or to stop acting on their sexuality, just like some straight people never act on their sexuality and remain celibate.

Technically. no...its not genetic...at least in the classical understanding. There is no "gay gene". But it is biological.

  • 3 votes
#1.29 - Thu Aug 6, 2009 11:28 AM EDT
Luke Wright

The idea that you can take a gay person and use therapy to make them straight is as absurd as telling a straight person you can make them gay. Sexual orientation doesn't work like that! Besides why would a person want to? I'm straight and no amount of "therapy" is going to make me sexually attracted to other men and why would I want it to?

I think that for the gays that are born that way it is a waste of time and money, but for gays that have become that way because of abuse or other extenuating circumstances I think it can be possible to help them find their "real selves". I think that a gay person who wanted to try this kind of therapy because they were perhaps exposed to some kind of childhood sexual trama should at least have the opportunity to try it if they want to.

  • 1 vote
#1.30 - Thu Aug 6, 2009 11:31 AM EDT
Liberal Madmama

I wouldn't go so far as to say it isn't genetic, there is no "gay gene" so far that they have identified, but given the complex way in which genes operate I think it jumps the gun a bit to say definitely not genetic.

  • 1 vote
#1.31 - Thu Aug 6, 2009 11:33 AM EDT
Greg&Jeff

Right. Just because something has not been found yet, does not mean that it does not exist.

  • 3 votes
#1.32 - Thu Aug 6, 2009 12:48 PM EDT
edgarhalcyon

simplistic reality - your posts certainly are amusing. I want to address a few of them, though.

"last time I checked" - you need to check with RELIABLE sources instead of where you've been checking.

"So your saying its a genetic defect then in essence" - no, it's not a genetic defect, it's a genetic difference. Actually, if the defect is anywhere, it's in the "heterosexual gene". If humanity would die out, the world could try to recover from what humans have done to it!

This next one really makes me roll on the floor - "I thought that's what masturbation is for" - what, is masturbation an invention?

Keep on posting, though, I won't need to read the comics!

  • 3 votes
#1.33 - Thu Aug 6, 2009 1:11 PM EDT
Keith D-754997

SR, take if from a man who has served quite a bit of prison time. Oz is a joke. I am not as eloquent as Ron or you and I always enjoy you two guys twist on thinking. Prison does not make anyone gay. One is that way from the begining of getting there. For six years my "urges" were curtailed by "Palmarine and Fistine", if you catch my drift. Prison is like a pressure cooker, what is inside enough pressure will bring out. I think it more important for the ADA to focus on straight or gay people accepting themselves first.

  • 4 votes
#1.34 - Thu Aug 6, 2009 4:34 PM EDT
eriq samson

I wish people who want to talk about something being genetic or not would understand genetics

1) their can be no SINGLE gay gene - if there were, 1/2 the population would be gay and 1/2 straight. As it is around 10% (in average in the thousands of species that have documented homosexuality) means that there are at least 3 and maybe 5 - 6 genes involved

2) we don't have a definition of what sexuality is; what all the details are. Is sexuality an instinct?

3) What we do know is that (using fruit flies - the animal they did all those "gay gene" experiments on) that it is NOT nurture (fruit flies are laid as eggs and get no nurturing but some are gay)and NOT environment; it is NOT psychological (explain psychology to an insect with a brain the size of a head of a pin); it has to be something genetic.

Until we actually understand what sexuality is, we will never be able to answer the question

  • 4 votes
#1.35 - Thu Aug 6, 2009 9:41 PM EDT
jamithy1

thats not really true. Even if there is a gay gene doesnt mean half the population would be gay. thats like saying because there is a red head gene that half the population has red hair, or green eyes etc etc. it would only affect the % of the population who had the gene and thats if it wasn't recessive.

Imo, you just are or arent, and some people have brain receptors that respond to both.

I recently saw a documentary on the subject of Homosexual peoples brains. They did MRI scans of their brains while showing them pictures and exposing them to things like cologne and smelling a sweaty t-shirt. during the test the area's in a gay mans brain actualy responded the same way a straight womans brain did when exposed to male pic's smells and sweat, and the same happened for gay women and straight men.

Gotta say, it convinced me, seeing video of the different areas of the brain acting that way. Machines don't lie. their born that way and thats just how their brains function. They dont "Choose" to make their brains that way. I don't remember the name of the documentary but i'm sure you can google it and find it. Was really informative.

I used to think they chose to an extent.... (which was also cool, what do I care) but yeah, if you're like me and you are a bit skeptical, find it and watch it. made a believer out of me

  • 5 votes
#1.36 - Thu Aug 6, 2009 10:30 PM EDT
Simplistic Reality

Keep on posting, though, I won't need to read the comics!

LOL. Just add me to your watchlist... glad I can amuse someone. (even if it wasn't intentional)

    #1.37 - Fri Aug 7, 2009 7:59 PM EDT
    Reply
    steven-791492

    It is about time they went on record,with something that has been know for decades. Only the most twisted Right Wing Churches would ever try something as stupid as trying to change who someone is.

    • 34 votes
    #2 - Wed Aug 5, 2009 6:06 PM EDT
    Simplistic Reality

    Or like Muslim nations... they just execute the person.

    • 5 votes
    #2.1 - Wed Aug 5, 2009 7:32 PM EDT
    lolollollol1233

    Or like Muslim nations... they just execute the person.

    Religious nuts do their fair share of extremely wrong things to homosexual people, Muslims execute them. Both are awful things to do to a person one being long term damage from harrasement, insults, and xenophobia and the other being loss of life. Ironically Islam has the same God as Christianity, that God is a homophobic little bastard.

    • 7 votes
    #2.2 - Wed Aug 5, 2009 8:56 PM EDT
    Sgt C USMC

    Actually, No...they don't. In the Afghanistan-Russian war, the muhjadeen raped hundreds of captured Russian soldiers.

    • 5 votes
    #2.3 - Wed Aug 5, 2009 10:05 PM EDT
    spleefKGBExpand Comment Comment collapsed by the community

    The Muslim way of life: "Little girls are for babies, little boys are for FUN!" Thats why we are killing them evey chance we get over there in the ZONE!

    • 1 vote
    #2.4 - Wed Aug 5, 2009 10:33 PM EDT
    lolollollol1233

    The Muslim way of life: "Little girls are for babies, little boys are for FUN!" Thats why we are killing them evey chance we get over there in the ZONE!

    I am not shocked by your ignorance, none the less, you are generalizing an entire @!$%#ing religion that is extremely large, stop basing all Muslims on the radical minority. Do Christians want to be generalized because some prolife nut shot a doctor in a churhc? Or when Christians blow up abortion centers? Or when Christians display xenophobia and hate?

    • 6 votes
    #2.5 - Wed Aug 5, 2009 11:35 PM EDT
    kiml

    We have two great friends who were just married.

    They are gay. Who cares!

    First time I met them, I was servicing their boiler. I came home and said to my wife, "I think they were gay". This was an afterthought.

    These two people are some of the greatest people that we have met,

    Where is the problem with these people?

    • 7 votes
    #2.6 - Wed Aug 5, 2009 11:54 PM EDT
    Just_some_guy

    lolol,

    Ignore him. Notice that his first post for that screen name is on this seed, and that what he has said is very trollish. Either someone just having a good time, or someone creating an alternate screenname so they can say something offensive, and if it gets kicked, who cares? Not worth your time and effort.

    • 4 votes
    #2.7 - Thu Aug 6, 2009 12:13 AM EDT
    spleefKGBExpand Comment Comment collapsed by the community

    I am not shocked by your ignorance, none the less, you are generalizing an entire @!$%#ing religion that is extremely large, stop basing all Muslims on the radical minority. Do Christians want to be generalized because some prolife nut shot a doctor in a churhc? Or when Christians blow up abortion centers? Or when Christians display xenophobia and hate?

    You are clueless when it comes to the true muslim way of life!

    • 2 votes
    #2.8 - Thu Aug 6, 2009 12:29 AM EDT
    Sgt C USMC

    I find it amazing how maybe 100 people involved in the attack of Sept 11 (and I'm being generous in that estimate) suddenly prove indisputably that ALL muslims want death to all non muslims.

    The Qur'an (or koran as Americans more commonly refer to it) specifically states that Muslims may only kill to defend themselves, their families, or to prevent oppression.

    The problem is that last part 'prevent oppression.' Oppression is a subjective term, and can mean anything from 'you stole my house!' to 'you hurt my feelings!' This is where the jihadists base their fatwahs from. They feel that the west has corrupted their culture, has forced things on their people that are not in line with Allah's teachings, and that if they do not resist, the west will take over their country and make it as if it was their own . Thanks to the invasion of Iraq, we turned deranged fringe lunatics into truthsayers, and that means now they have more credibility, and more people will listen them.

    By and far, Muslims treat Americans with...indifference. They would be much happier not interfering in our affairs if we wouldn't interfere with theirs. But by and large, it doesn't seem that they hate us. If nothing else, they definitely love our money.

    • 9 votes
    #2.9 - Thu Aug 6, 2009 12:34 AM EDT
    spleefKGB

    Indifference??? Until you turn your back on them!

    • 1 vote
    #2.10 - Thu Aug 6, 2009 1:01 AM EDT
    R. Donald Snyder

    spleefKGB

    Troll and an as*s.

    • 2 votes
    #2.11 - Thu Aug 6, 2009 1:10 AM EDT
    spleefKGBExpand Comment Comment collapsed by the community

    R. Donald Snyder

    A$$ and well read his post you will see!

    • 1 vote
    #2.12 - Thu Aug 6, 2009 2:22 AM EDT
    jamithy1

    spleefKGB.....

    You are clueless when it comes to the true muslim way of life!

    so i being an atheist, am to assume that Child Molesting is the true christian way of life because a few christians are child molesters?

    sounds to me like you are an idiot

    • 1 vote
    #2.13 - Thu Aug 6, 2009 1:10 PM EDT
    tyler

    The Muslim way of life: "Little girls are for babies, little boys are for FUN!" Thats why we are killing them evey chance we get over there in the ZONE!

    spleefKGB, welcome to Newsvine. While SR began the derail, they were making a comparison in worldwide treatment of gay people.

    You're derailing much further and denigrating a whole religion; stop it. You're suspended for a day for violating #5 - and #1 - of the Code of Honor.

    ...

    Speaking of which:

    sounds to me like you are an idiot

    Troll and an as*s.

    R. Donald Snyder, I know you know #1. jamithy1, you might not. Both of you need to follow it.

    Above all else, respect others. Address issues and arguments and refrain from making personal attacks. If you see something disrespectful or inappropriate, report it - rather than further inflaming the situation.

    • 2 votes
    #2.14 - Thu Aug 6, 2009 2:37 PM EDT
    jamithy1

    I apologize... even if it is true

    • 2 votes
    #2.15 - Thu Aug 6, 2009 2:56 PM EDT
    R. Donald Snyder

    What jamithy1 said.

    • 2 votes
    #2.16 - Thu Aug 6, 2009 5:18 PM EDT
    Reply
    klm-547227

    Its about time!

    • 17 votes
    Reply#3 - Wed Aug 5, 2009 6:10 PM EDT
    take2la

    Yeah, what 40 years since Stonewall.

    They only took it out of the DSM because it became politically UN-correct to call homosexuality a 'mental illness'. They saw they could make more money by absorbing its "symptoms" into more so called mainstream maladies & 'treating' it that way.

    • 9 votes
    #3.1 - Wed Aug 5, 2009 6:18 PM EDT
    jamithy1

    ever heard of hermaphrodites? people born with both reproductive organs? why do we assume that the body couldnt create someone with the body of one sex but a brain that is attracted to that same sex?

    I'm straight but looking at all the "defects" (and I use that word for lack of a better one) that occur in nature I am not going to assume it doesnt happen. Same way the brain makes some men attracted to only skinny women or only fat women, or blondes or brunettes etc etc.... its not a "defect" its just the way some people turn out.

    • 4 votes
    #3.2 - Thu Aug 6, 2009 11:30 AM EDT
    micrometer

    You have to consider the source of the article. The mental health profession is populated by fakirs and charlatans. Over the years they have fostered more pain and suffering upon patients than any other of the medical professions. Immersing people in ice water. Electro shock therapy. Lobotomies. Drugs that turned people into zombies. Talk therapy that takes years and transfers tens of thousands of dollars from the patient to the "doctor".

    Remember, therapist is merely a contraction of the words "the rapist" Regular rapists f**k with your body. Therapists f**k with your mind.

    The mental health "professionals" of today are the descendants of the snake oil salesmen of yesteryear. Their changing defination and treatment of homosexuality in the DSM is more based on the ability to extract money than on any benefit to society at large.

      #3.3 - Thu Aug 6, 2009 2:13 PM EDT
      eriq samson

      Actually putting it IN the DSM was "more based on the ability to extract money than on any benefit to society at large."

      You really do not understand logic; 1 + 1 equals 2 and only 2 and never more or less than 2

      • 3 votes
      #3.4 - Thu Aug 6, 2009 9:44 PM EDT
      Reply
      snake09Expand Comment Comment collapsed by the community

      I have something that works wonderful. Its called "Pray The Gay Away". With daily prayer I will guarantee you that you will not be gay anymore because its not in God's plan to continue that heathenistic lifestyle. Remember, only Satan wants you to be gay because it guarantees him a nice little spot for you in the lake of fire.

      • 6 votes
      Reply#4 - Wed Aug 5, 2009 6:15 PM EDT
      The Lighthearted Liberal

      I have something that works wonderful as well. It's called "Quit Allowing Yourself to be Brainwashed" and open up your eyes to the world around you. Read my book...at least it's based on fact.

      Funny thing about all you Christ-ers, I thought your precious book said something about only "God" being able to pass judgement? Looks like we'll both be visiting that same lake after all! ;)

      Cheers!

      • 3 votes
      #4.1 - Wed Aug 5, 2009 7:26 PM EDT
      Just_some_guy

      I've known people who tried to "pray the gay away." The were extremelly disappointed when it didn't work. I've also known african-americans who tried to wash the black out of their skin. Same difference really. Neither works, because it's not just some trick played by "the devil." It's how you are, one way or the other.

      • 3 votes
      #4.2 - Wed Aug 5, 2009 10:28 PM EDT
      spleefKGB

      I agree with snake only Satan and other gays want you to turn gay! Pray for your soul and set yourselves free from your imoral acts! Pray everyday!

      • 1 vote
      #4.3 - Wed Aug 5, 2009 10:37 PM EDT
      snake09

      Umm, why ban me? I was being sarcastic. Apparently some of you havent seen South Park.

      • 2 votes
      #4.4 - Thu Aug 6, 2009 7:34 AM EDT
      Greg-281912

      I've seen Southpark, and according to Southpark, only the Mormons are "right" and everyone else is not going to make it to heaven, straight or gay.

      • 1 vote
      #4.5 - Thu Aug 6, 2009 11:23 AM EDT
      jamithy1

      how about this, if you believe in God, then you believe that we are all Gods creations, and loves all of us.

      and Greg... that was a hilarious episode..

      • 1 vote
      #4.6 - Thu Aug 6, 2009 11:33 AM EDT
      snake09

      On another episode God physically reveals himself in the year 2000 and tells people he's a Buddhist. Now the episode that i mentioned earlier was the one where Butters parents think he's gay so they send him to "straight camp" where special church counselors help him "pray the gay away". Very funny.

      • 1 vote
      #4.7 - Thu Aug 6, 2009 12:01 PM EDT
      jamithy1

      gotta love south park.

        #4.8 - Thu Aug 6, 2009 12:44 PM EDT
        JustinPM

        You guys and your interpretations of the Bible. Riddle me this, who said this?

        Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

        The funny thing is, as bad as religion can be, the hypocritical make it ten times worse. They'll use the book to decry something as foul and unholy and in the same book commit sin after sin per their "text".

          #4.9 - Thu Aug 6, 2009 1:09 PM EDT
          tyler

          Umm, why ban me?

          Presumably, people found your comment 'inflammatory' or 'no value'. [Being 'banned' is being blocked from the site. Your comment was collapsed. Very different.

          I was being sarcastic.

          Harder to tell on the internet.

          Apparently some of you havent seen South Park.

          Now you know, I guess.

          • 1 vote
          #4.10 - Thu Aug 6, 2009 2:42 PM EDT
          Reply
          JasoninWyomingDeleted
          The Lighthearted Liberal

          You think?!?

          People are born gay. There are some people that once identified as straight and now identify as gay, but this is typically to avoid confrontation from those that will try to change them - or the fears that the people that they love will disown them.

          It amazes me that this is such a big deal. In a world where all things seem possible, why is one consenting adult loving another consenting adult such a huge matter? I understand that the majority of churches are against it - but guess what? I don't go to your church. If I stay out of your "house", why won't you stay out of mine? More importantly - please stay out of my bedroom. =)

          Nobody chooses the much tougher path on purpose. There are so many horrible things happening in the world, I can't imagine why anybody would have a problem with love.

          If you want to make the world a better place, don't try to change other people - change yourself. Make yourself the best you that you can be. Put positive energy into the world.

          • 21 votes
          Reply#6 - Wed Aug 5, 2009 6:21 PM EDT
          Darthfrodo

          Well said.

          • 7 votes
          #6.1 - Wed Aug 5, 2009 6:43 PM EDT
          HenryWhiting

          I was born gay, I had a great time as a child, laughing, smiling, etc, then I got a job and started paying for other people who refused to work. I am no longer gay, if fact I'm quite angry now. Or is this a tread about queers?

          • 1 vote
          #6.2 - Thu Aug 6, 2009 9:57 AM EDT
          drbacon

          Reading your post has made me gay. At least for a while.

            #6.3 - Fri Aug 7, 2009 12:13 AM EDT
            Reply
            Acoe

            Go APA! I appreciate that it took a bunch of research to come to this conclusion, and it's good to see psychologists take a serious interest in ending the odd practice of gay-to-straight programs. The compromises they suggest are novel too, chastity seems to be a good way for people to keep with their religion if they really have that much trouble with their sexuality.

            • 8 votes
            Reply#7 - Wed Aug 5, 2009 6:32 PM EDT
            Darthfrodo

            Yeah chastity, it seems to work so well with priests.

            • 9 votes
            #7.1 - Wed Aug 5, 2009 6:47 PM EDT
            Acoe

            Well y'know, nobody is perfect. :P

            • 2 votes
            #7.2 - Wed Aug 5, 2009 8:39 PM EDT
            Reply
            kwolf

            It is always Interesting to see these groups who follow religion battle it out with each other on who is right and wrong in their beliefs, making someone into what you think that they should be is an Insult to the person it's self, I can't pull a rabbit out of my hat so why do others believe that they can ? If a person is straight or gay then that is who they are , changing them with the religious threat of Hell and Fire is always tipical of the religious right , that is their final solution. If someone is convicted enough they will find away to change for themselves without being forced to change without the threat of Hell and Fire. This will be some after life to look forward too. You only have one life to live , Live it and accept the fact that there is no more.

            • 8 votes
            Reply#8 - Wed Aug 5, 2009 6:43 PM EDT
            Dennis Kemmerer

            While I'm delighted to see the APA finally publicly call bull@!$%# on reparative therapy, the fact remains that the only people who have issues with sexual orientation are those with strong beliefs that are peculiar to a specific religious group.

            As it always has, that leads me to conclude that the problem does not lie with the person's sexual orientation, but rather with the religious beliefs.

            • 14 votes
            Reply#9 - Wed Aug 5, 2009 6:46 PM EDT
            Sunshine-731852

            How this took so long is beyond me...

            • 11 votes
            Reply#10 - Wed Aug 5, 2009 6:57 PM EDT
            Adrian Thorn

            I think academics are trying to avoid partisan issues. These days a university researcher can't so much as fart without being accused of spreading communism.

            • 9 votes
            #10.1 - Wed Aug 5, 2009 8:23 PM EDT
            JECD

            Does anybody still really spread communism any more? Who does that? are there Gay communists? ;)

            • 3 votes
            #10.2 - Wed Aug 5, 2009 11:42 PM EDT
            Reply
            kj031056-1

            Does this mean that the "fabulous" Ted Haggard is done with his intensive restorative counseling?

            • 16 votes
            Reply#11 - Wed Aug 5, 2009 7:02 PM EDT
            Besibug-561369

            Conversion through secular psychologists and methods, I'm sure have little success. Those who have found freedom from homosexuality through Christ with such a program as Exodus know it is possible.

            • 2 votes
            Reply#12 - Wed Aug 5, 2009 7:49 PM EDT
            Dennis Kemmerer

            Besibug-561369 wrote:

            Those who have found freedom from homosexuality

            "Repression of homosexuality" is much more accurate.

            • 20 votes
            #12.1 - Wed Aug 5, 2009 7:52 PM EDT
            R. Donald Snyder

            "Repression of homosexuality" is much more accurate.

            RAmen.

            • 15 votes
            #12.2 - Wed Aug 5, 2009 8:23 PM EDT
            Just_some_guy

            Some time, go check out Exodus International's success rate. It's astounding. By astounding, of course, I mean the number of people who repress their sexuality and then end up realizing that is exactly what they are doing. They are no more straight than I am. They are just trying to act out a new part.

            Now celibacy, if you're really that worried about your religious beliefs, I'm okay with them recommending that. It should make the "Hate the sin, not the sinner people" very happy as well.

            • 7 votes
            #12.3 - Wed Aug 5, 2009 10:36 PM EDT
            JECD

            We have a huge Exodus program in the town I live in... Billboards all over the place, i hear from a friend of mine that they leave the Exodus meetings and all head to the gay bar down the street....some of them been coming in for YEARS he said!!!! You can Not Pray away gay..... God made all of us and he does NOT make mistake!!!

            • 5 votes
            #12.4 - Wed Aug 5, 2009 11:46 PM EDT
            Greg&Jeff

            Conversion through secular psychologists and methods, I'm sure have little success. Those who have found freedom from homosexuality through Christ with such a program as Exodus know it is possible.

            Yeah, Exodus has a wonderful track record....even it's own founders can't pray away the gay:

            In 1979, two of Exodus International's co-founders (Michael Bussee and Gary Cooper) quit the group and held a life commitment ceremony together. On June 27, 2007 Bussee, along with fellow former Exodus leaders Jeremy Marks and Darlene Bogle, each came out as gay or lesbian and issued a public apology for their roles in Exodus

            • 9 votes
            #12.5 - Thu Aug 6, 2009 12:59 PM EDT
            JECD

            As they should have (apologized)... Some of the people in this country are so obsessed with gay, Leave it alone,work on your self first,people and you just may find the wonderfulness and the good in people and not try to see evil where it doesn't exist.

            Love they Neighbor! Says all you need to know!

            • 3 votes
            #12.6 - Fri Aug 7, 2009 12:48 PM EDT
            Reply
            Timm265358

            In the article Alan Chambers is quoted : "...Don't deny the possibility that someone's feelings might change."

            It really doesn't have to do with feelings. It has to do with conviction. I agree that mental health professionals should not tell gay clients they can become straight through therapy or other treatments. Therapy won't help them. They have to be willing to hear the truth and respond to it with humility and obedience. So it comes down to conviction. But this doesn't just apply to those leading a gay lifestyle. It applies to everyone.

              #13 - Wed Aug 5, 2009 7:49 PM EDT
              race

              Oh please.

              Sex is sex. Everyone wants some, most of us get some, and the only real reason your gay or straight is ultimately that your on one end or the other on the sexual spectrum Good Lord put us all in. For the vast majority of us, who you have sex with and who you don't is entirely determined by your culture, religion, and morality.

              Most of us would screw anything or anyone, if we could a) do it without feeling guilty and b) weren't so afraid of being caught and c) weren't twisted up with self-loathing, shame and fear by some barbarous belief-system.

              It's good to see the professionals finally taking the stance they should have years ago.

              • 2 votes
              #13.1 - Wed Aug 5, 2009 9:06 PM EDT
              Timm265358

              I'll assume you're speaking for yourself.

              Regarding the Good Lord you referenced...and he is good...I'm not so sure that he made some sort of sexual 'spectrum' and that he put us individually at various places along it. Where are you getting that idea from?

                #13.2 - Wed Aug 5, 2009 10:25 PM EDT
                Just_some_guy

                Obviously not from the same place you got your Lord. I'm guessing you got one at discount, what with it being mass produced. I notice a lot of people buy the "God disapproves of Gays" model. I'm guessing there is a lower price when people buy in bulk? Kind of like something one would get at Costco.

                • 3 votes
                #13.3 - Wed Aug 5, 2009 11:32 PM EDT
                Jack Huang

                They have to be willing to hear the truth and respond to it with humility and obedience. So it comes down to conviction.

                I'd love to see you, or anyone else, turn gay through "conviction."

                • 3 votes
                #13.4 - Wed Aug 5, 2009 11:36 PM EDT
                eriq samson

                It never fails to surprise me when these people claim that "God" was wrong for creating homosexuals that; through their particular misinterpretation of the Bible, "He" is somehow against.

                NO the Bible says nothing about homosexuality

                NO the Bible says nothing about homosexual sex (it does refer to religious practices of other religions that include, in one case ((leviticus)) forced ritual homosexual rape)

                NO, "God" created homosexuals in thousands of species, thinking he did something wrong is thinking you are better than your "God" - a complete impossibility

                • 3 votes
                #13.5 - Thu Aug 6, 2009 3:05 AM EDT
                Liberal Madmama

                If God didn't intend the creation of homosexuals then did he also not intend the creation of genetic hermaphrodites? Did these folks also "choose" their sexual identity, somehow retroactively causing their DNA to change to suit their "choice"?

                • 5 votes
                #13.6 - Thu Aug 6, 2009 7:00 AM EDT
                drbacon

                eriq samson. Have you ever read the Bible. The Bible says plenty about homosexuality and none of it good. (Have you ever heard of Sodom and Gomorrah?). No, God did not create homosexuals but he did create laws for both physical and mental health. People have refused to follow those laws for century's now and we are reaping the result in this and many other mental and psychological abnormality's. Even so called Christian churches today refuse to follow those laws thinking they have been done away with.

                God said "I will visit the eniquities (lawlessnes) of the fathers upon the children even to the third and forth generation of those who hate me. (disobey His commandments). The true homosexual is not the sinner but it is a result of sins committed over thousands of years.

                • 1 vote
                #13.7 - Thu Aug 6, 2009 7:25 AM EDT
                Simplistic Reality

                If God didn't intend the creation of homosexuals then did he also not intend the creation of genetic hermaphrodites? Did these folks also "choose" their sexual identity, somehow retroactively causing their DNA to change to suit their "choice"?

                The Church crowd is going to answer the above question like this I assume:

                God didn't intend to create homosexuals. That is why he made Adam and Eve.. not Adam and Steve. Nor did he in the beginning create illness, disease, inperfections, etc etc. Because Adam and Eve chose to listen to the Devil and sin.. they were cast out of Garden of Eden.. and a World of sin followed... like "pain in child birth"... etc etc etc. Limiting of the age of human's later... sickness.. etc etc. So it would be reasonable to assume (to the church crowd and what pastors have told me when I attended churches) that homosexuality is a by product of that sin. Just like babies dying in birth.. or with defects... etc etc. It's all because of sin, and the sin of our forefathers etc etc etc. I don't think pastors and most Christians can accept the science behind some things. Just like radio carbon dating saying man kind is hundred's of thousands of years old.. when biblical history puts the time span of mankind I think like 10k years or less. It's an argument... when religion is involved... and science... that probably will go nowhere. Religion and Politics. Almost always a loosing argument / battle :P It's this very reason... liking to think logically and scientific that has kept me away from church and has shaken my faith. I'm in a personal soul searching process on many things. I guess thats why they call it "FAITH". I just have to many questions that pastors can't answer me well enough. Religion is just one of those things you just have to believe in.. even if logically it puts you at odds. This is why I haven't been to church except Christmas with family in 4 years. So many religions... so many denunciations... variants... which one is right? Which one interprets it right? How do we know the meaning of words from translations down the ages were not changed? etc etc etc. Too many questions I have.

                • 5 votes
                #13.8 - Thu Aug 6, 2009 7:37 AM EDT
                eriq samson

                Dr Bacon - have you ever actually read the Bible? Not the translations but the Bible - in the original old hebrew, Koine Greek, etc.?

                1) There is NO way to say homosexual in ancient hebrew. NONE! What was used in Leviticus, for instance, was "Qa'Desh" (and the female version "Qa'Deshaw") which was a priest / prostitute who performed ritual man on man rape in another religion (leviticus 20 identifies it as "Molech")

                2) while there were many words to say homosexual in Greek; Paul "invents" a new word because he is not talking about sex but about the fertility religion being practiced in Rome

                NO The Bible does not say a thing about homosexuality; in fact the notion that there are different sexualities came about in the late 1890's when a "Pop" psychologist claimed that there was a difference and -- for a fee -- he could "fix" it. Always watch the snake oil salesmen and hold onto your wallet!

                YES, "God" created homosexuals, and he did so in thousands of species, not just man. Quitr denying God or claiming that you know better than Him; that is childish and ridiculous

                • 8 votes
                #13.9 - Thu Aug 6, 2009 8:32 AM EDT
                Jack Huang

                The Bible says plenty about homosexuality and none of it good. (Have you ever heard of Sodom and Gomorrah?)

                Sodom & Gomorrah weren't destroyed because of homosexuality.

                No, God did not create homosexuals

                But he did imbue them with fabulous fashion sense.

                but he did create laws for both physical and mental health

                Yeah, like stoning disobedient children, and He didn't mean the happy kind of stoning.

                People have refused to follow those laws for century's now and we are reaping the result in this and many other mental and psychological abnormality's.

                Ah yes, I'm sure Down syndrome exists right now because we didn't stone disobedient children.

                The true homosexual is not the sinner

                Cool.

                • 10 votes
                #13.10 - Thu Aug 6, 2009 9:33 AM EDT
                Liberal Madmama

                I understand right where you're at, Simplistic, having been there myself. And you're pretty spot on as far as the responses I have received from various denominations over the years concerning homosexuality and genetic hermaphroditism. The biggest problem I have with that answer is this concept of visiting the sins of the father upon the child. To me, it seems like that was intended as an object lesson on how your actions may affect your offspring within society, not as the threat of retribution from God that so many different churches have turned it into. SO many of the stories in the Bible were originally intended as lessons, and even at times as humor by the original Hebrew tribes, (according to historians) and that has been lost in the multiple translations.

                Jack, some of the ideas you express in your response are exactly why I consider myself to be an atheist today. Having actually read the Bible, taking in and understanding some of the horrific things that version of God not only permitted, but requested of his followers before the arranged torture of his son supposedly wiped the slate clean has led me to believe that if there is a God who loves us and created us in his image he'd either have to be insane to do those things or equally insane to allow himself to be maligned by those claims.

                • 5 votes
                #13.11 - Thu Aug 6, 2009 10:00 AM EDT
                jamithy1

                Actually the Bible does state somewhere that Homosexuality is a sin, but I think that may have been more an inserted personal belief of the person writing the bible than Gods word.... seeing as God is supposedly perfect, and all mankind is Gods creation, seems to me people are being mighty presumptuous to judge one of Gods creations, especially if you are doing it on religious grounds.

                once again.... the religious fanatics out there labelling things that are not just like them wrong. The Bible says that God gave man free will, it also says "judge not lest ye be judged", AND last but definitly not least James 4:12 says "There is one lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy: who art thou that judgest another?

                One more thing what does anybody else care about who these people are attracted to? unless a homosexual approaches you in a sexual way AFTER you have asked them not to, no harm no foul, it's none of your business. Just as it is none of anyone elses business what type of sex acts straight people get up to.

                • 4 votes
                #13.12 - Thu Aug 6, 2009 11:55 AM EDT
                Lola-984242

                drbacon:

                Have you ever read the Bible. The Bible says plenty about homosexuality and none of it good. (Have you ever heard of Sodom and Gomorrah?)

                So the Sodom and Gomorrah story means gay sex/relationships are bad? Then does that same story mean having sex with your father is good?

                Why do people who believe in the bible just pick and choose what they want to believe? It's all or nothing in my opinion!

                • 7 votes
                #13.13 - Thu Aug 6, 2009 12:38 PM EDT
                Simplistic Reality

                Then does that same story mean having sex with your father is good?

                Huh??

                  #13.14 - Thu Aug 6, 2009 6:33 PM EDT
                  Lola-984242

                  Simplistic Reality, in the story of Sodom and Gomorrah, after Lot's wife looked back at the city, against god's wishes, she turned to pillar of salt. Sodom's daughters thought they were the only people left in the world and worried they would have no children. So they got their father drunk and had sex with him.

                  My point was, if you are going to base your belief that homosexuality is wrong on the religious story of Sodom and Gomorrah, well there's much more to the story. Should we then say it's okay to have sex with your father?

                  Another question that could be asked is, can you offer your daughters up to be raped? When the angels visited Lot, the people of the city wanted "to know them" (have sex with them), Lot refused but offered them his daughters to do what they will. Nice dad!

                  Again, my point is, the religious believers love to quote the story of Sodom and Gomorrah, but only tell a small part of it to say homosexuality is wrong. There's a hell of a lot (no pun intended) more to the story.

                  • 5 votes
                  #13.15 - Thu Aug 6, 2009 7:17 PM EDT
                  Simplistic Reality

                  Oh yeah! I forgot about that part of the story. lol.

                  Should we then believe it's okay to have sex with your father?

                  Well.. if you believe in the bible and Adam and Eve.. then obviously sisters and brothers had sex.. etc etc to grow the family as there was no other people around as well. It's odd thinking about that to begin with lol.

                  • 2 votes
                  #13.16 - Thu Aug 6, 2009 7:19 PM EDT
                  Lola-984242

                  It's so gross and disgusting IMO.

                  If there were no others on this earth, I could never reproduce with my brother or dad. Yuck!!!!! I'd be the end of humanity. lol

                  • 6 votes
                  #13.17 - Thu Aug 6, 2009 7:28 PM EDT
                  Simplistic Reality

                  A whole new meaning to "keep it in the family". lol

                  • 1 vote
                  #13.18 - Thu Aug 6, 2009 8:11 PM EDT
                  eriq samson

                  Jamithy - no, the Bible nowhere states that homosexuality is a sin -- in fact it could not because the idea that such a thing as sexuality (and heterosexuality and homosexuality, etc.) exists at all was an 1890's idea. Whden the Bible was written they had no notion that such a thing existed

                  Translators later on changed the meanings of the words to fit their prejudices in their translations; this is so severe that King James actually sent one team of translators off to europe to find and translate the Latin only Catholic Bible; and when they returned he did not like what the Bible said and wanted it to say something else so he fired tham and sent a new smaller group out with specific instructions on what the Bible should say

                  • 4 votes
                  #13.19 - Thu Aug 6, 2009 9:53 PM EDT
                  Simplistic Reality

                  I've now got some great counter questions next time the family takes me to church! :)

                  • 1 vote
                  #13.20 - Thu Aug 6, 2009 10:11 PM EDT
                  jamithy1

                  eriq

                  , I do not believe in god, christ or the bible so it no way makes a difference to me, i think it is a book of stories... I reference it only because other people have. (although i have read a good portion of it before coming to the conclusion its a load of crap).

                  And as it is written it does say that god does not approve, 1 Corinthians 6:9-11 says ,"What! Do you not know that unrighteous persons will not inherit God’s kingdom? Do not be misled. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men kept for unnatural purposes, nor men who lie with men, nor thieves, nor greedy persons, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit God’s kingdom."and unless you read ancient greek, aramaic or latin, you have no idea if it is mis-translated,

                  like i said though i dont agree with its teachings anyways

                    #13.21 - Fri Aug 7, 2009 1:08 PM EDT
                    jamithy1

                    oh by the way, the suggestion that people had no concept of "sexuality" before the 1890's is absolute nonsense.

                    Once again though i agree with you that there is nothing wrong with gay people, just that the bible does in fact condemn it.

                    I'm a big history fan, just not of revisionist history

                      #13.22 - Fri Aug 7, 2009 1:18 PM EDT
                      Simplistic Reality

                      oh by the way, the suggestion that people had no concept of "sexuality" before the 1890's is absolute nonsense.

                      Agreed.

                        #13.23 - Fri Aug 7, 2009 8:10 PM EDT
                        eriq samson

                        Jamithy - 1 again you are using the KJV as if it were the Bible - it is a translation of the Bible (actually a transliteration); the the genuine article.It doesn't say Unnatural it says un-hebrew (Literally "not-of-our-tribe")

                        It does not say man lying with man it says man with priest / prostitute

                        This is well documented, seriously you need to look past the KJV, it is just incredibly, horribly wrong on so many points. The Hebrews come out with an anglo-saxon culture in it

                        NO, there was no concept of Sexuality (in terms of there being separate heterosexual and homosexual and bisexual and bestiality and .....etc.) before that; it was assukmed that all men had homosexual and heterosexual partners; There is only 1 Emperor of the Roman empire who did NOT have a same sex partner or husband - Claudius (who was old, feebel, drooled, and who's wife had whoring contests with prostitutes and usually won / bedded more men in one night)

                        If you are saying that they had no concept of how to use sex, that is a different animal; they had no concept of different sexuality; they assumed there was only one.

                        • 5 votes
                        #13.24 - Sat Aug 8, 2009 5:21 PM EDT
                        jamithy1

                        ok forget the bilbe part because once again, I say its a nice book of stories.

                        As far as the no concept of sexuality, i still call nonsense. You may be refering to a specific culture at one specific peroid in time. But at no time has it been concidered in all cultures that all men had male partners as well. Unless you have documentation or links from more than one, or even one, reputable source to back up the statement that it was universally accepted in all cultures that men always had dual partners, I think we need to keep that one in the "unsubstantiated column.

                          #13.25 - Sat Aug 8, 2009 11:01 PM EDT
                          eriq samson

                          Again, denying reality does not work.

                          I did not say that all men had male partners, just that it was considered a normal part of sexuality - in fact many people believe that the Bible-Translators had that notion and that is why they twisted the words in their translations to fit their beliefs (just as the Catholic Churhc once jailed Galileo for proving the earth went around the sun and was not the center of the universe)

                          However, in Greek culture it was common for oldr men to teach younger men (teenagers past puberty) how to have sex ... personally (the definition of the Greek word "paiderasste" is not a perosn but a role to be played), again in Rome all the emperors except one had male partners or husbands; you can't impose your culture on these older ones where it was not a negative thing to have a male partner

                          NOTHING was universally accepted in all cultures, especially not your uptight ideas here; should I call nonsense on everything you say?

                          • 3 votes
                          #13.26 - Sun Aug 9, 2009 12:43 AM EDT
                          jamithy1

                          sorry dude, uptight is far from my opinion on this subject. I didnt call bull@!$%# on everything you say... In fact i stated that i agreed with you, it was on that particular comment i called you on.

                          I still don't see any link to document your claim. I'm not attacking you personally, I just would like to read whatever info brought you to this conclusion.

                          thanks

                          • 1 vote
                          #13.27 - Sun Aug 9, 2009 5:34 PM EDT
                          drbacon

                          None of you have any idea what you are talking about.

                            #13.28 - Mon Aug 10, 2009 11:51 PM EDT
                            jamithy1

                            how so Dr. bacon? enlighten us on how we are ALL wrong.

                            • 1 vote
                            #13.29 - Tue Aug 11, 2009 1:26 AM EDT
                            Lola-984242

                            None of you have any idea what you are talking about.

                            Really? Oh please enlighten us drbacon, since you're so knowledgeable.

                            • 2 votes
                            #13.30 - Tue Aug 11, 2009 11:46 AM EDT
                            Reply
                            Dennis Kemmerer

                            Timm265358 wrote:

                            those leading a gay lifestyle.

                            What is this "gay lifestyle" I keep hearing about, and precisely how is it different from a "straight lifestyle?"

                            • 9 votes
                            Reply#14 - Wed Aug 5, 2009 7:54 PM EDT
                            Timm265358

                            I can't comment on what you keep hearing about, but when I stated 'those leading a gay lifestyle' I meant those individuals (men or women) who practice homosexuality. I don't know 'precisely how' it is different from a straight lifestyle, but my understanding is that those who practice homosexuality allow themselves to be attracted to those of the same sex, whereas those who practice heterosexuality allow themselves to be attracted to those of the opposite sex.

                            • 1 vote
                            #14.1 - Wed Aug 5, 2009 9:05 PM EDT
                            Dennis Kemmerer

                            So it's a non-issue.

                            Unless you have some interest in how other people put their pink parts together.

                            • 7 votes
                            #14.2 - Wed Aug 5, 2009 9:09 PM EDT
                            Timm265358

                            It's not a non-issue. My original comment treated the idea of conviction.

                              #14.3 - Wed Aug 5, 2009 10:27 PM EDT
                              Dennis Kemmerer

                              Yes, I suppose that's an issue for you.

                              • 3 votes
                              #14.4 - Wed Aug 5, 2009 11:09 PM EDT
                              JECD

                              I want to know something.... If you "Practice Homosexuality" Do you practice it ...Until you get it Right?

                              • 7 votes
                              #14.5 - Wed Aug 5, 2009 11:49 PM EDT
                              Greg&Jeff

                              That's what I have always wondered of Doctors and Lawyers too! I don't want anyone practicing on me. I want someone who knows what they are doing!

                              • 5 votes
                              #14.6 - Thu Aug 6, 2009 1:28 PM EDT
                              Sunshine-731852

                              I'm pretty damn sure I don't "allow" myself to be attracted to dudes - I'm prettty DAMN sure that's just how I'm wired. There is nothing that would "allow?" me to suddenly be attracted to ladies in a sexual fashion. I like big shoulders, fuzzy beard stubble, and, um, the precious dangly parts. ;)

                              Timm - I'm sorry to break it to you, but your "understanding" is dead wrong.

                              • 7 votes
                              #14.7 - Thu Aug 6, 2009 3:14 PM EDT
                              Reply
                              Lkessler

                              All I gotta say is that my cousin was gay. He didn't live a gay lifestyle. He was a successful hairstylist, and for an appointment with him, you needed to make it six months ahead of time. He was that talented, that busy, that successful.

                              And gay. You couldn't have married him to a woman if you tried. He loved his partner--and his partner loved him. He died from complications of AIDS. He lived an extremely fulfilled life. I doubt he would've traded the experiences of his life as a gay man for one second of being "straight."

                              Nope, not in a million years...

                              • 11 votes
                              Reply#15 - Wed Aug 5, 2009 8:18 PM EDT
                              Greg&Jeff

                              And neither would I or my partner. We feel it has given us greater insight than we would have had otherwise. When people are constantly telling you that you are wrong you examine your life more. When people constantly discriminate against you, it puts things in a different light.

                              The fact that we put up with all the discrimination and hate directed our way, and still find love with someone through all of that points out just how deep and unchangeable our feelings really are.

                              • 5 votes
                              #15.1 - Thu Aug 6, 2009 1:32 PM EDT
                              Reply
                              JanayB

                              Well, I thought that it was already common knowledge that being gay is not a "disorder" and it obviously can not be "cured". Being gay is as natural as being straight.

                              Nice job APA!

                              • 10 votes
                              Reply#16 - Wed Aug 5, 2009 8:58 PM EDT
                              Timm265358

                              It is indeed 'common knowledge' that being gay is not a disorder. But that, in and of itself, doesn't make it true.

                              • 1 vote
                              #16.1 - Wed Aug 5, 2009 9:08 PM EDT
                              Dennis Kemmerer

                              So, is your position that homosexuality is a disorder?

                              If so, you'll need to provide some substantiation for the claim.

                              Do keep in mind that you'd be arguing a position that attempts to contradict that of experienced, highly educated professionals.

                              • 9 votes
                              #16.2 - Wed Aug 5, 2009 9:10 PM EDT
                              Rygar

                              Dennis

                              That hasn't stopped them before. I'm actually starting to believe that there dislike keeps them warm at night.

                              • 5 votes
                              #16.3 - Wed Aug 5, 2009 9:26 PM EDT
                              Dennis Kemmerer

                              I know, Rygar; I'm just baiting him.

                              It always comes down to a prurient obsesion with a physical connection between two people who each have a penis.

                              It's interesting, though, that these folks almost always have no objection to lesbian porn.

                              The, pardon the expression, saving grace is that they're increasingly being told to sit down and mind their own business.

                              • 8 votes
                              #16.4 - Wed Aug 5, 2009 9:33 PM EDT
                              Timm265358

                              Dennis, so I'm being baited eh? That's ok. I don't mind. Wouldn't be the first time. But I wanted to clear up a potential misunderstanding of my comment. I wasn't commenting on whether or not homosexuality is a disorder (in fact, I'm not sure I even know the APA's definition of 'disorder'). I was commenting on the fact that just because something is 'common knowledge' doesn't necessarily make it true.

                                #16.5 - Wed Aug 5, 2009 9:58 PM EDT
                                Dennis Kemmerer

                                I'll take the expert opinion.

                                • 6 votes
                                #16.6 - Wed Aug 5, 2009 11:10 PM EDT
                                Timm265358

                                What if you vehemently disagreed with the expert opinion? Would you still take it?

                                  #16.7 - Thu Aug 6, 2009 11:42 AM EDT
                                  Dennis Kemmerer

                                  I'd certainly question an expert opinion if I had stronger evidence to oppose it or a good reason to doubt the source.

                                  In this case, there simply isn't any contrary evidence and the opinion is coming from a group of people who are highly trained professionals and well-educated in the subject.

                                  • 6 votes
                                  #16.8 - Thu Aug 6, 2009 12:52 PM EDT
                                  Timm265358

                                  I guess I'm trying to engage you in a conversation about truth (what makes something 'true') and you're talking about support for common knowledge. I think we're two ships passing in the night.

                                    #16.9 - Thu Aug 6, 2009 1:22 PM EDT
                                    Sunshine-731852

                                    But Timm, you are on a posting about whether or not "gayness" is something that can be "Treated" and you've made your stance on that pretty clear. Don't act all surprised and innocent when your comments are taken the way you write them.

                                    If you want to discuss something completely off the topic, we usually go elsewhere.

                                    • 3 votes
                                    #16.10 - Thu Aug 6, 2009 3:17 PM EDT
                                    Dennis Kemmerer

                                    Sunshine,

                                    Once I see the sort of disingenuous reply that I got from Timm, I know that he isn't interested in debating his position.

                                    • 2 votes
                                    #16.11 - Thu Aug 6, 2009 3:31 PM EDT
                                    Reply
                                    race

                                    Those who feel the need to stop gays from being gay....are gay, and frightened by the fact.

                                    • 13 votes
                                    Reply#17 - Wed Aug 5, 2009 9:10 PM EDT
                                    drbacon

                                    That's about as stupid of a remark as you can get. Those who feel the need to stop gays from being gay are merely misinformed. Perhaps you are gay and frightened by the fact.

                                    • 2 votes
                                    #17.1 - Thu Aug 6, 2009 7:27 AM EDT
                                    Jack Huang

                                    That's about as stupid of a remark as you can get. Those who feel the need to stop gays from being gay are merely misinformed

                                    Noting the number of anti-gay Christian ultraconservatives who've been caught in gay sex scandals, it's actually not that stupid. ;-)

                                    • 6 votes
                                    #17.2 - Thu Aug 6, 2009 9:35 AM EDT
                                    Sunshine-731852

                                    It really does seem like a main reason, though. Why else would they get so worked up about it? Unless they were so angry themselves at having to constantly repress their own natural sexual desire - and then they see all of these happy gays living the way they WISH they could - so they've GOTS TO STOP THEM!!!!

                                    • 4 votes
                                    #17.3 - Thu Aug 6, 2009 3:20 PM EDT
                                    Reply
                                    Matthew Brennan

                                    We should just do a study on the actual effects of therapy in general. If therapy works, then why the massive rise in prescription drugs for emotional disorders? Aren't we getting more depressed and emotionally unstable?

                                    • 2 votes
                                    Reply#18 - Wed Aug 5, 2009 9:25 PM EDT
                                    Dennis Kemmerer

                                    I believe that's already been done, and that the long-term efficacy of reparative therapy is somewhere around three percent.

                                    • 4 votes
                                    #18.1 - Wed Aug 5, 2009 9:35 PM EDT
                                    Sgt C USMC

                                    Matthew it's actually simple - before antidepressants, people had no explanation for why their life might suck, except that it did. Suddenly prozac pops up, and tells everyone it'll make you appreciate life more, you won't be sad anymore, and suddenly having a sometimes sucky life isn't normal any longer. Now you're abnormal. People don't like to be abnormal by societal terms, so they do what they can to prevent that, that means taking prozac. Now their life isn't so sucky. They feel good ALL of the time. In short, they're hooked. Now they can't function without prozac, and all of their friends see how happy they suddenly are, and well...it's depressing. So they think something is wrong with them, and they go and get prozac, and the cycle perpetuates.

                                    Happiness in a bottle. What a fantastic marketing strategy.

                                    • 3 votes
                                    #18.2 - Wed Aug 5, 2009 10:13 PM EDT
                                    Rygar

                                    I believe you to an extent Sgt.

                                    I'm on anti-depressents (zoloft) because I ended up suicidal after growing up being taught to hate myself. Doctor suggested I go to therapy but since insurance wouldn't cover it and I couldn't afford the bills. So he gave me a heavier dosage.

                                    • 5 votes
                                    #18.3 - Wed Aug 5, 2009 10:34 PM EDT
                                    drbacon

                                    Don't knock the drugs sarge just because you may not have a need for them.

                                    • 1 vote
                                    #18.4 - Thu Aug 6, 2009 7:34 AM EDT
                                    Sgt C USMC

                                    I'm not bacon, I'm just pointing out that those drugs have turned what used to be normal into abnormal. No different with any other advance in medicine really. Before biopsies and MRIs, cancer was considered along the lines of being possessed and/or having been 'cursed by God' .

                                    The more science discovers, the smaller the range of 'normal' becomes. This isn't a bash , rather a fact of life.

                                      #18.5 - Fri Aug 7, 2009 4:06 PM EDT
                                      Reply
                                      MNguy1

                                      Scientific inquiry is gradually spreading the light of truth on the vast darkened wilderness of superstition, blind faith, and fear. What used to be the turf of priests and shamans is now fair game for researchers. Galelio started the ball rolling back in 1564 and was condemned by the church for his heretical views that the earth rotates around the sun.

                                      Not much has changed. The fundamentalists insist on their god's version of reality while weary scientists take abuse for presenting inconvenient facts. Spread the light, let the clerics provide the heat.

                                      • 7 votes
                                      Reply#19 - Wed Aug 5, 2009 9:58 PM EDT
                                      ohMEohMY

                                      The only people who care about straight and gay orientation thing are the people that are in the closet. And you know who you are and so does GOD. Long live "lifestyle choice". Whatever. And to my critics, thanks for sharing.

                                      • 2 votes
                                      Reply#20 - Wed Aug 5, 2009 10:00 PM EDT
                                      Sgt C USMC

                                      Wow, 'judge not lest ye be judged in turn' went RIGHT out of the window on that one.

                                      • 2 votes
                                      #20.1 - Wed Aug 5, 2009 10:14 PM EDT
                                      ohMEohMY

                                      Did I hit a raw nerve, sir?

                                      • 1 vote
                                      #20.2 - Tue Aug 11, 2009 1:20 AM EDT
                                      ohMEohMY

                                      Amen!

                                        #20.3 - Tue Aug 11, 2009 1:26 AM EDT
                                        Reply
                                        Doubtit

                                        I disagree with this article to a certain extent.

                                        IMO, there are two forms of homosexuality - genetic and environmental. Genetic is self-explanatory, a person was born that way, which is cool. The environmental homosexuality involves some sort of perversion such as abuse by an adult at an early age and the person is really confused with their sexuality. Most of the time it involves seduction or trickery or out and out rape and the victim is trapped by embarrassment and shame.

                                        The genetic homosexuality shouldn't worry about reversing anything but the environmental homosexual should by all means seek therapy and guidance. Most professional therapist should be able to help out.

                                        Disclaimer: IMO and prayer doesn't have anything to do with it

                                        • 3 votes
                                        Reply#21 - Wed Aug 5, 2009 10:20 PM EDT
                                        Liberal Madmama

                                        I would disagree to the extent that I believe sexuality is derived from a combination of factors, genetic and environmental. IOW, I believe environment can have an influence in how sexuality is expressed, but not necessarily on inherent sexuality. People like to bring up the anecdotal idea that sexual abuse during childhood can "turn" an individual into a homosexual, but there are certain flaws with that argument. The first one being that not all male children who are abused by a male become homosexual. That would tend to indicate that the ones who are homosexual as adults were already inclined that way, and the environmental factor of their abuse may or may not have affected their choice as an adult. However the children that don't become homosexual as a result of their molestation were not inclined towards homosexuality in the first place. Another flaw with this argument rests in the fact that most children that are molested are of an age that they have not begun to express their sexuality in an overt manner yet, there may have been some hints but not usually an out and out declaration of "I like boys" or "I like girls", therefore it's nearly impossible to claim that any child who was abused and happens to be homosexual in adulthood would have definitively been heterosexual without the abuse.

                                        • 3 votes
                                        #21.1 - Thu Aug 6, 2009 7:12 AM EDT
                                        Reply
                                        texascowboy-591995

                                        Of course it won't be long before Focus on the Family's James Dobson will be tearing apart this research, as he has done on other studies in the past. His organization teaches its sheep to be hateful, intolerant, judgmental and condemning of others. Even with truth staring these people in the face, they will spin it. Genetics of course is not a science they believe in; now collecting money using fear tactics is one of their guiding principles.

                                        • 6 votes
                                        Reply#22 - Wed Aug 5, 2009 10:31 PM EDT
                                        Just_some_guy

                                        texascowboy,

                                        I'm no fan of Focus on the Family. Living just up the road from them, I'm exposed to a lot of their garbage. But they are changing, slightly.

                                        In this last year, they have published three stories using what would later be found to be flawed or mis-represented data. All three times, they have issued apologies and recanted their statements.

                                        Now, honestly these stories should have never been published at all. The fact that the data they are using is flawed can be easily checked by the people writing or editing the stories, and it should be done before the article is released. However, the fact that they are actually correcting themselves when the problems are pointed out...that's new for them.

                                        Which is all to say that if they do rip it apart, using facts that are inaccurate at best, they will be called on it. And if they keep up their current trend, they will make the proper apologies and corrections. For them, that's almost admirable.

                                        • 2 votes
                                        #22.1 - Wed Aug 5, 2009 10:45 PM EDT
                                        Greg&Jeff

                                        Focus on the Family like so many other religious organizations are fear based. The way they keep the coffers full and the money coming in is to demonize a group so that their followers think there is an "enemy" they have to "fight".

                                        Too bad they don't really "Focus on the Family" more and stop "Focusing on the homosexual". I think they could be doing a lot more good in the world if they did.

                                        • 4 votes
                                        #22.2 - Thu Aug 6, 2009 1:39 PM EDT
                                        Reply
                                        randynotMeDeleted
                                        newsblog903

                                        Well, this is something we all knew isn't it? Now to get the churchies to catch up. It's comments like the following that just irk me no end:

                                        Those who have found freedom from homosexuality through Christ with such a program as Exodus know it is possible.

                                        This kind of attitude is an insult to homosexuals and a slap in the face to the Christ they so worship. I'm sure if Jesus were to return his wrath would be directed at the hate spewing religious worshipers and not on the gays. These "religious" types wouldn't know Jesus if he knocked on their door. If there is sin it is not homosexuals who are committing it but the so called Christians.

                                        • 8 votes
                                        #24 - Wed Aug 5, 2009 11:29 PM EDT
                                        Rygar

                                        Oh no news, you said the C word, now you are going to get the viners who normally come into these articles waving a bible and spouting bible phrases.

                                        When they speak though I get the mental image of the crazy cat lady off of the simpsons, except she is holding a cross and throwing bibles. That image makes me smile.

                                        • 6 votes
                                        #24.1 - Wed Aug 5, 2009 11:32 PM EDT
                                        newsblog903

                                        Rygar: I've lost my sense of humor with the Bible thumpers, but please do keep yours going for both of us! :)

                                        • 5 votes
                                        #24.2 - Wed Aug 5, 2009 11:38 PM EDT
                                        Rygar

                                        Well I lost mine a while ago growing up in a very strong catholic family. I hold a value that laughter is the spice of life. So anytime I feel down, I just try to think of something to make it somewhat better. Trust me though use that image when you debate a bible thumper and tell me if you don't at least crack a slight smile :).

                                        • 3 votes
                                        #24.3 - Wed Aug 5, 2009 11:41 PM EDT
                                        newsblog903

                                        Catholic family- oh now you've done it! I was raised in one too, but don't get me started on that!

                                        I will try to maintain my humor like you said. Maybe I'll watch Monte Python's movie The Life of Brian. That will cheer me up!

                                        • 2 votes
                                        #24.4 - Wed Aug 5, 2009 11:49 PM EDT
                                        Rygar

                                        Brilliant!! Love that movie!

                                        • 3 votes
                                        #24.5 - Wed Aug 5, 2009 11:51 PM EDT
                                        R. Donald Snyder

                                        "The Meaning of Life" was better. Not much, but better.

                                        • 3 votes
                                        #24.6 - Thu Aug 6, 2009 2:21 AM EDT
                                        gt350cobra

                                        NEWSBLOG903--"This kind of attitude is an insult to homosexuals and a slap in the face to the Christ they so worship. I'm sure if Jesus were to return his wrath would be directed at the hate spewing religious worshipers and not on the gays. These "religious" types wouldn't know Jesus if he knocked on their door. If there is sin it is not homosexuals who are committing it but the so called Christians."

                                        Although homosexuality is a slap in the face of Christ, I agree that many religious people who believe in man made religion wouln't know Christ becasuse they are blinded ny the religion itself, just like the people who think there is no God are blinded by their unbelief.

                                        And I know many people who were gay set free from it, but if they were to come on here and post would you believe them anyway?

                                        • 2 votes
                                        #24.7 - Thu Aug 6, 2009 6:07 AM EDT
                                        Rygar

                                        Awwww way to go and ruin a good conversation gt.

                                        Oh and I think your a liar. I tried to change and the only thing I got from it was a knife wound where I tried to stab myself in the throat. It was people like you that caused me to do it, telling me constantly that I was an abomination, that I was not worthy of having a life, that the world is the way it is because of me. I had to endure this line of thinking for twelve years, twelve long years of hating myself. It was all because of religion and their narrow interpretations..

                                        This is why I immensly dislike christians and their self-rightous dogmatic views.

                                        Oh and I think you are a slap to christs face more than I am. I do computer work for charity organizations, I donate to the 'Make a Wish foundation' a portion of my overall salary a year. Oh and I at least don't come into seeds telling people how they are a lower life form (seems to be most Christians do that in articles pertaining to homosexuality.)

                                        Ok back onto the small covnersation at hand. The mystery of life was one of the few movies that really made me go "what the hell!" in a good way. Live organ donations for everyone!!!

                                        • 9 votes
                                        #24.8 - Thu Aug 6, 2009 7:26 AM EDT
                                        newsblog903

                                        Hi Rygar,

                                        All the Monte Python movies are good. I love them all.

                                        And as for Christians who are not really Christians- well, we both know that Jesus would never make anyone feel like a "lower form of life." Didn't Jesus take in lepers and the outcasts of society? Jesus demonstrated a love of all humanity, at least that was what I was taught. So it goes to show that many Christians make a mockery of their own lord and savior! Shame on them!

                                        Keep smiling! :)

                                        • 4 votes
                                        #24.9 - Thu Aug 6, 2009 11:35 AM EDT
                                        newsblog903

                                        And Cobra, I never said homosexuality was a slap in the face to Christ- don't twist my words.

                                        Your attitude towards your fellow human is a slap in the face to Christ. I think those that protest too much are latent homosexuals themselves. Maybe Jesus was gay- who knows?

                                        • 3 votes
                                        #24.10 - Thu Aug 6, 2009 11:42 AM EDT
                                        jamithy1

                                        hmmmm newsblog903...

                                        he did surround himself with only men, and was never known to have slept with a woman.... LOL you may be on to something there

                                        • 3 votes
                                        #24.11 - Thu Aug 6, 2009 1:13 PM EDT
                                        Save Me Jebus

                                        Rygar - Crazy Cat Lady, that's awesome. I think I'll picture the same thing and just laugh the next time I hear a ridiculous "truth" from the bible.

                                        • 1 vote
                                        #24.12 - Thu Aug 6, 2009 1:35 PM EDT
                                        Rygar

                                        Very true news, sort of forgot my own quote there for a second. :), I love Montey Python, I'm saving up for the tv series (No one expects the Spanish Inquisition, not no one not no how!)

                                        • 1 vote
                                        #24.13 - Thu Aug 6, 2009 1:39 PM EDT
                                        newsblog903

                                        Speaking of the Inquisition:

                                        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X5McSEU48Y8

                                        I sent you a friend's request, Rygar!

                                        • 1 vote
                                        #24.14 - Thu Aug 6, 2009 1:46 PM EDT
                                        Rygar

                                        Friend request accepted :)

                                        • 1 vote
                                        #24.15 - Thu Aug 6, 2009 4:29 PM EDT
                                        gt350cobra

                                        NEWSBLOG--And Cobra, I never said homosexuality was a slap in the face to Christ- don't twist my words.

                                        Your attitude towards your fellow human is a slap in the face to Christ. I think those that protest too much are latent homosexuals themselves. Maybe Jesus was gay- who knows?""end quote"

                                        I never said you said that you said that homosexuality is a slap in the face of Christ. I did.

                                        You just misread my post.

                                        How does my attitude slap Christ in the face? Because I am against the acts of homosexuality? Some people assume that because I disagree with homosexuality and see it for the sin that it is, doesn't mean that I hate the person, Hate the sin not the person, I would be slapping Christ in the face if I said that they were No better than whale @!$%#. But I don't, so all of you can assume what you like.

                                        ANd for the record I have gay friends.

                                        RYGAR--"Oh and I think your a liar. I tried to change and the only thing I got from it was a knife wound where I tried to stab myself in the throat. It was people like you that caused me to do it, telling me constantly that I was an abomination, that I was not worthy of having a life, that the world is the way it is because of me. I had to endure this line of thinking for twelve years, twelve long years of hating myself. It was all because of religion and their narrow interpretations..""

                                        I am not lying, if you are talking about religious abuse I know how you feel, I am against religion as much as you seem to be, but that doesn't change the fact that God is still very real. I have no reason to lie, it never gets us anywhere but being untrustworthy although blogging you'll never know if we are telling the truth or not, but for what it is worth I am not lying.

                                          #24.16 - Thu Aug 6, 2009 9:32 PM EDT
                                          newsblog903

                                          Just because YOU see it as a sin (homosexuality) doesn't make it so! Who the hell are you to put words in Christ's mouth?

                                          • 4 votes
                                          #24.17 - Thu Aug 6, 2009 9:39 PM EDT
                                          Rygar

                                          My apologies if I misread your post, however I took offense to this phrase

                                          Although homosexuality is a slap in the face of Christ

                                          As someone who is gay I feel that you are dehumanizing me using this phrase. This is why I responded as such, because quite frankly I'm fed up with it.

                                          • 6 votes
                                          #24.18 - Thu Aug 6, 2009 10:03 PM EDT
                                          jamithy1

                                          hahaha the old " i have friends comment."

                                          I don't have Gay friends... I know gay people, it's just that none of my friends are gay, just like none of my friends are black simply because I live in a city with a total black population of about 20 or 30.

                                          I find it funny that people always try to cover up the fact they said something either discriminatory or offensive about a group of people, by throwing in the "I have(gay, black, asian, etc.) friends" comment.

                                          If you honestly disagree with something (even if it is offensive to others) have the courage to stand by your convictions.

                                          for instance I hate valley girls who use the word "like" as every other word in a sentence. But I do not follow up my discriminatory comment with "but I have valley girl friends"

                                          sorry for the cheesy comparison group.... I just couldn't think of another group of people i don't like as a whole. lol

                                          • 4 votes
                                          #24.19 - Fri Aug 7, 2009 10:56 AM EDT
                                          gt350cobra

                                          I find it funny that people always assume that it is a cover up for discriminatory comments. The fact is is that I do so if you want to view it as a cover up it is your choice.

                                          NEWSBLOG-""Just because YOU see it as a sin (homosexuality) doesn't make it so! Who the hell are you to put words in Christ's mouth?""

                                          You apparently don't know God's word the bible by making a statement like that. I would only know it is a sin because of Jesus' teachings, and by what God says is sin and not sin in the bible.

                                          ROMANS 1:27- And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

                                          Romans 1:29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity;whisperers,

                                          Romans 1:30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,

                                          Romans 1:31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:

                                          Romans 1:32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

                                            #24.20 - Fri Aug 7, 2009 11:16 AM EDT
                                            jamithy1

                                            the bible also said it was ok to have slaves, have more than one wife and that it was ok to kill the enemy, kidnap their women and take them as wives (also well known today as rape)... so whats your point?

                                            are you ok with those things because they are in the bible? Take a better look at your little story book before using what it says as an example, you will find the in the transition from old to new testament that it not only changes what it says is sinful but contradicts itself over and over and over again.

                                            • 6 votes
                                            #24.21 - Fri Aug 7, 2009 11:35 AM EDT
                                            sandy2244Deleted
                                            AdipicAcid

                                            How do you feel about divorce? It's specifically prohibited, except in the case of adultery, in several of Christ's sermons, yet the most "Christian" parts of the country also lead in divorces per capita. Not to mention total ignorance of the "judge not, that ye be not judged" parts.

                                            And if you want a list of contradictions in the New Testament, here's a good place to start.

                                            • 8 votes
                                            #24.23 - Fri Aug 7, 2009 2:39 PM EDT
                                            newsblog903

                                            cobra:

                                            The Bible is not the word of God. If that were true God would be the biggest freak ever. The God I care to think about is not some megalomaniac in the sky passing judgement on his own creations. What a load of crap to think that the divine would create something and then condemn it!

                                            The Bible was written by a bunch of old and nasty men who were control freaks, drunk on ouzo, and had nothing better to do than terrify the populace. Why don't you try thinking for yourself cobra, or are you too scared?

                                            • 6 votes
                                            #24.24 - Fri Aug 7, 2009 3:45 PM EDT
                                            Auteur 1536

                                            The Bible was written by a bunch of old and nasty men who were control freaks, drunk on ouzo, and had nothing better to do than terrify the populace.

                                            Finally, someone who get's it.

                                            • 4 votes
                                            #24.25 - Fri Aug 7, 2009 3:51 PM EDT
                                            Lola-984242

                                            The Bible was written by a bunch of old and nasty men who were control freaks, drunk on ouzo, and had nothing better to do than terrify the populace.

                                            And sick misogynistic perverts!

                                            Finally, someone who get's it.

                                            YAY!!!

                                            • 4 votes
                                            #24.26 - Fri Aug 7, 2009 3:55 PM EDT
                                            Jack Huang

                                            BTW The New testament in Christ does away the old testament.

                                            Except that Jesus himself said "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets."

                                            Oh, and you should tell the multitudes of Christians who believe in the Ten Commandments that their faith isn't "real" Christianity.

                                            • 7 votes
                                            #24.27 - Fri Aug 7, 2009 4:55 PM EDT
                                            gt350cobra

                                            "And if you want a list of contradictions in the New Testament, here's a good place to start"

                                            I read through some of them and it took me one minute to find lies with those contradictions they claim. Jesus riding the donkey was misquoted and therefore false I will examine it more but as far as my 5 minutes reading it and going through it, so far they can't prove any.

                                            Did you know those men? How many of you have actually read and understand the bible?

                                            God gave us his word, and his son to save the misogynistic perverts, and to save ALL of us. But God gave us al the freedom to choose, and you will find out the truth when you die. Which I hope you find out sooner. (Not saying this in any "hope you die" kind of way" I simply mean it whenever your life passes you will find out. Just so I don't get accused of hoping you all die.

                                            You seem to all assume that because I believe in Jesus that I hate others that don't, and I judge others and so forth. That is a common misconception.

                                            • 1 vote
                                            #24.28 - Fri Aug 7, 2009 4:55 PM EDT
                                            Darreth01

                                            Did you know those men?

                                            OMG... you're NOT gonna go with the old "YOU DIDN'T KNOW ANY OF THE GUYS IN THE BIBLE!" Argument are you?!?!? SERIOUSLY???

                                            • 5 votes
                                            #24.29 - Fri Aug 7, 2009 5:04 PM EDT
                                            newsblog903

                                            Did you know those men? How many of you have actually read and understand the bible?

                                            How arrogant of you Cobra to assume we can not understand what we read. I am fully able to read and interpret what I read. I do not need someone to do that for me- especially you.

                                            And how arrogant of you to assume we are all Christians. Even Jesus would be distraught by what Christians have done to him. You are among the righteous who have managed to take Jesus out of Christianity!

                                            • 8 votes
                                            #24.30 - Fri Aug 7, 2009 5:10 PM EDT
                                            gt350cobra

                                            Wow you guys are coming up with accusations right out of the air. Tell me where I assumed we were all christians? Tell me where I stated that you don't understand what you read? I ASKED if you read it and understood it.

                                            If I said "You guys probably never even read the bible and if you did couldn't understand it anyway" That would be assuming you didn't understand or read it.

                                              #24.31 - Fri Aug 7, 2009 6:35 PM EDT
                                              newsblog903

                                              Good back peddling Cobra!

                                              • 4 votes
                                              #24.32 - Fri Aug 7, 2009 7:42 PM EDT
                                              gt350cobra

                                              So you can't back up your accusation than?

                                                #24.33 - Fri Aug 7, 2009 10:07 PM EDT
                                                Auteur 1536

                                                Did you know those men?

                                                Yeah. They were allowed to reproduce and their descendents are running around continuing their "glorious" legacy.

                                                • 6 votes
                                                #24.34 - Fri Aug 7, 2009 10:24 PM EDT
                                                Auteur 1536

                                                God gave us his word

                                                How do we know God is a man? Because the bible was written by men.

                                                Who created God? Men.

                                                But God gave us al the freedom to choose

                                                Choose what? To live the life we want how we want? If that's true, why are there bible thumpers out there like you who strive to take that choice away?

                                                and you will find out the truth when you die

                                                What truth? That God doesn't really exist?

                                                "You guys probably never even read the bible and if you did couldn't understand it anyway"

                                                Could you? Or only the parts that you want to understand?

                                                Where was God before humans existed?

                                                • 5 votes
                                                #24.35 - Fri Aug 7, 2009 10:36 PM EDT
                                                drbacon

                                                Auteur why don't you try using some of your intelect here. I know you must be smarter than that.

                                                  #24.36 - Fri Aug 7, 2009 10:40 PM EDT
                                                  drbacon

                                                  BTW The New testament in Christ does away the old testament

                                                  That is a total fallacy created by the early Christian church in order to justify there reckless disregard for God's Law.

                                                    #24.37 - Fri Aug 7, 2009 10:46 PM EDT
                                                    Auteur 1536

                                                    So you can't back up your accusation than?

                                                    It's "So you can't back up your accusation then?" Check your grammar next time.

                                                    And quoting the bible makes you look condescending and arrogant.

                                                    • 3 votes
                                                    #24.38 - Fri Aug 7, 2009 10:52 PM EDT
                                                    drbacon

                                                    Auteur, I almost hesitate to respond to your last post because I know that it still won't sink into your thick skull, but here goes.

                                                    How do we know God is a man?

                                                    Truth is, God is not a man. God is a spirit being without gender.

                                                    Who created God? Men

                                                    Actually you are more right than wrong on that. Man has created many gods. They have been worshiping these false gods now for century's. Most so called Christians are worshiping them without even realizing it.

                                                    Choose what? To live the life we want how we want?

                                                    Partly right. God presented those choices to Adam and Eve in the garden of Eden symbolized by two trees. One, the tree of life, represents following Gods way and living life the way he created us to do. The other, the tree of the knowledge of good and evil representing, as you put it, living the life we want how we want. They chose the latter and you see where that has gotten us.

                                                    What truth? That God doesn't really exist?

                                                    Actually, if there is no God then when you die you will find out nothing. So if you die and then suddenly find yourself waking up in a whole new world then you're going to have a lot of words to eat.

                                                    Could you? Or only the parts that you want to understand?

                                                    A true understanding of the Bible can only come through the opening of ones mind by God. Even at that, no one has a complete understanding. The Bible is written and canonized in a very particular way that is hard to understand. But once given that understanding every thing begins to fall in place.

                                                    And finally:

                                                    Where was God before humans existed?

                                                    Haven't you ever even read the very first verse of the Bible? He was busy creating the heavans and the Earth.

                                                    • 1 vote
                                                    #24.39 - Fri Aug 7, 2009 11:36 PM EDT
                                                    Jack Huang

                                                    They have been worshiping these false gods now for century's.

                                                    But, of course, your God is not a false god, because... the Bible says so, and the Bible is true because it says it is.

                                                    Actually, if there is no God then when you die you will find out nothing. So if you die and then suddenly find yourself waking up in a whole new world then you're going to have a lot of words to eat.

                                                    Gotta love the "after you die, bad stuff could happen!" threat. It'd be amusing to see the look on your soul's face when you die and wind up on Charon's skiff. Can dead people says "Oh, f---!"?

                                                    A true understanding of the Bible can only come through the opening of ones mind by God

                                                    Translation: Only my interpretation of the Bible is correct... just because.

                                                    The Bible is written and canonized in a very particular way that is hard to understand. But once given that understanding every thing begins to fall in place.

                                                    So the Bible was kinda written by dickwads who didn't really want people to understand, and instead explicitly wanted to foster an atmosphere of arbitrary interpretatio and contradiction. Classy.

                                                    Haven't you ever even read the very first verse of the Bible? He was busy creating the heavans and the Earth.

                                                    Says the Bible, written by man. Nice story, by the way--like the Iliad, but with a messier plot.

                                                    • 7 votes
                                                    #24.40 - Sat Aug 8, 2009 12:20 AM EDT
                                                    Simplistic Reality

                                                    I'd rather believe... and perhaps be wrong. No harm no foul. Then not believe and be wrong. That's just me. Why take the gamble? Eternity in hell would suck would it not? Again everyone is going to believe what they want. Called free will.

                                                    • 1 vote
                                                    #24.41 - Sat Aug 8, 2009 12:29 AM EDT
                                                    gordy327

                                                    I'd rather believe... and perhaps be wrong. No harm no foul.

                                                    Then you don't really believe. You just take a play on Pascal's Wager and try to hedge your bet with God. I think the Almighty would see right through that ruse and label it as false belief or dishonesty.

                                                    Eternity in hell would suck would it not?

                                                    assuming Hell actually existed, probably. But since it doesn't....

                                                    God is not a man. God is a spirit being without gender.

                                                    Can you prove that? How do you know?

                                                    . Man has created many gods. They have been worshiping these false gods now for century's. Most so called Christians are worshiping them without even realizing it.

                                                    So how do you know the "one, true God" you worship isn't another "false" God> What makes God so special or different?

                                                    God presented those choices to Adam and Eve in the garden of Eden symbolized by two trees.

                                                    Of course, the whole story of Adam and Eve is metaphorical and is in no way factual or true.

                                                    the tree of the knowledge of good and evil representing, as you put it, living the life we want how we want.

                                                    In other words, God wanted to keep us ignorant and stupid, since knowledge is equated with evil in the story. Real nice!

                                                    They chose the latter and you see where that has gotten us.

                                                    Because they screwed up, the rest of us have to deal with it? Wow, God sure knows how to hold a grudge, doesn't He?

                                                    if there is no God then when you die you will find out nothing.

                                                    Yes, exactly! Why is that concept so difficult for people to swallow?

                                                    So if you die and then suddenly find yourself waking up in a whole new world then you're going to have a lot of words to eat.

                                                    So be it. And I'll tell God straight to His face too. But I'm not going to waste my life worrying about it or other such nonsense.

                                                    A true understanding of the Bible can only come through the opening of ones mind by God.

                                                    The bible is misunderstood or misinterpreted because people think it's true or inerrant. The bible is nothing more than a farce, a fairy tale. You basically say believe in God and you'll understand. I call that brainwashing.

                                                    Haven't you ever even read the very first verse of the Bible?

                                                    Yes, and it's an amusing story or fairy tale.

                                                    He was busy creating the heavans and the Earth.

                                                    And you can prove this?

                                                    • 7 votes
                                                    #24.42 - Sat Aug 8, 2009 2:00 AM EDT
                                                    Auteur 1536

                                                    Wasn't Eve originally a man? So technically it'd be Adam and Steve.

                                                    • 5 votes
                                                    #24.43 - Sat Aug 8, 2009 3:05 AM EDT
                                                    Simplistic Reality

                                                    assuming Hell actually existed, probably. But since it doesn't....

                                                    Where is your 100 percent proof it doesn't? Nobody can prove God, Hell, Heaven dosen't exists with 100 percent certainty.... therefore.. its still a gamble betting on it being 'false' when it could very well be 'true'. Apparently you all are a gambling bunch. I find it also funny that every funeral I have been too... and everyone who does.. they always say "They are in a better place..." or "they are in Heaven now". Funny when so many people.. especially on NV seems to think God and the Bible are one big fairy tale. I wonder how you and your families funerals play out. Maybe something to the tune of "He died.. lived a good life... he is gone forever... and you'll never see him again.. because there is no god.. no heaven.. no afterlife... just decay.. and fading away into nothingness because.. there is no god.. no heaven". Yep. Is that how it works for you non-religious folk? How glum yes? If not.. your all hypocrites. You non christian folk who think its a fairy tale.. make sure to put in your will.. no funeral with any mention of GOD, HEAVEN, AFTERLIFE, etc etc. No fake comforting for your family in friends. Wouldn't want to be hypocritical in death and all.

                                                    • 1 vote
                                                    #24.44 - Sat Aug 8, 2009 4:20 AM EDT
                                                    gordy327

                                                    Where is your 100 percent proof it doesn't? Nobody can prove God,

                                                    If you're making the claim God, Heaven, or Hell exists, you are the one who must provide the proof. If you can't prove God, then why waste your time worshipping a non-existant deity. I can't prove with absolute certainty God doesn't exist. But I can give evidence to support the probability that He doen not exist and by extension, Heaven or Hell.

                                                    I find it also funny that every funeral I have been too... and everyone who does.. they always say "They are in a better place..." or "they are in Heaven now".

                                                    It's called a comfort mechanism, used to deal with the tragedy or reality of life. It's one of the major reasons why people might believe in God. It's something you say to make yourself or others feel better. That doesn't mean it's real or true though.

                                                    Maybe something to the tune of "He died.. lived a good life... he is gone forever... and you'll never see him again.. because there is no god.. no heaven.. no afterlife... just decay.. and fading away into nothingness because.. there is no god.. no heaven".

                                                    Yeah, pretty much. I've been to funerals. People can say whatever they want to or believe what they want to make themselves feel better. I won't sugar coat anything or tell stories and lies. Welcome to reality.

                                                    Is that how it works for you non-religious folk?

                                                    I can't speak for anyone else, but saying feel-good stories of heaven and God or whatever doesn't change anything. So I never do. I'll express condolences and personal support if needed. Basically, when you die, you're worm chow. End of story.

                                                    make sure to put in your will.. no funeral with any mention of GOD, HEAVEN, AFTERLIFE, etc etc

                                                    I already have. I don't even want a funeral or wake or anything like that. Go straight to a party with plenty of food, booze, and music. Why would I need mention of God or religious ideas?

                                                    No fake comforting for your family in friends. Wouldn't want to be hypocritical in death and all.

                                                    If I'm dead, I'm not in a position to comfort anyone, unless my death is comforting to some (different matter altogether, lol). How friends and family comfort themselves is up to them.

                                                    • 6 votes
                                                    #24.45 - Sat Aug 8, 2009 5:23 AM EDT
                                                    drbacon

                                                    Auteur, where in the world did you get such an idiotic idea. That is not taught in the Bible.

                                                      #24.46 - Sat Aug 8, 2009 8:26 AM EDT
                                                      drbacon

                                                      simplistic and Gordy. It is true that you cannot prove God to someone else. You can only prove God's existence to yourself. I know that that sounds like double talk but it is the same with the theory of an evolution without God. You can prove that to your own satisfaction but I have seen nothing, including reading Darwin, that can prove it to me.

                                                        #24.47 - Sat Aug 8, 2009 8:34 AM EDT
                                                        Liberal Madmama

                                                        :D Gordy- I was wondering if some one would bring up Pascal's wager. Most people have been told the concept but not where it came from. While it was important to the development of philosophy, and even to science in the form of probability theory you're exactly right. From a faith standpoint it's an attempt to lie to God, and to hedge your bets. That seems a silly risk to take if God really exists and is, by definition, omnipotent. It would seem to me that if he's the vengeful God that Christians say he is there would be a very special place in hell for those who tried to deceive him by way of this method. Maybe one where nothing is as it seems, where their minds interpret truth as lies and lies as truth. Perhaps that's where some of our ultra conservatives come from?

                                                        • 5 votes
                                                        #24.48 - Sat Aug 8, 2009 8:55 AM EDT
                                                        Greg&Jeff

                                                        Again everyone is going to believe what they want. Called free will.

                                                        Yes. God gives free will while some of his followers try to take it away. They think they know better than anyone....even God himself apparently. So through misguided and hateful ballot measures they work to take away our free will to marry and our free will to adopt children.

                                                        All we want, is our free will back.

                                                        • 5 votes
                                                        #24.49 - Sat Aug 8, 2009 9:09 AM EDT
                                                        gt350cobra

                                                        -AUTUER"It's "So you can't back up your accusation then?" Check your grammar next time.

                                                        And quoting the bible makes you look condescending and arrogant.""

                                                        How does quoting the bible make me look condenscending and arrogant? Remind me when you quote something out of any book to let you know you sound arrogant and condenscending.

                                                        AUTUER-"Choose what? To live the life we want how we want? If that's true, why are there bible thumpers out there like you who strive to take that choice away?"

                                                        No one can really take your choices away. Government can pass laws and make things illegal. God gave us instructions to live by, a guide to what is acceptable and what is not. You always have free choice, but sometimes their will be consequences to those choices. And tell me exactly how I strive to take your choices away? If I can do that I must be a God or you must be scared that I will jump through this computer and rip your head off. Which neither is true.

                                                        All you have is assumptions that all christians are bad so you put them all in a box and accuse them all as one. That is no better than me assuming that all atheists are evil.

                                                        GREG&JEFF-""They think they know better than anyone....even God himself apparently.""

                                                        Yes, God does know better than everyone.

                                                          #24.50 - Sat Aug 8, 2009 9:43 AM EDT
                                                          Dennis Kemmerer

                                                          Jack Huang wrote:

                                                          Actually, if there is no God then when you die you will find out nothing. So if you die and then suddenly find yourself waking up in a whole new world then you're going to have a lot of words to eat.

                                                          Gotta love the "after you die, bad stuff could happen!" threat. It'd be amusing to see the look on your soul's face when you die and wind up on Charon's skiff. Can dead people says "Oh, f---!"?

                                                          That's like when your mother used to get you to behave by threatening you with "just wait until your father gets home."

                                                          The difference is that when you were little, your father *did* come home, usually that evening. These fools have been duped into "behaving" for two millenia.

                                                          • 7 votes
                                                          #24.51 - Sat Aug 8, 2009 1:18 PM EDT
                                                          gordy327

                                                          You can only prove God's existence to yourself.

                                                          That's the same as saying: "God is real because I said so!" People can convince themselves to believe in anything if they try hard enough. But it doesn't make it any more real or true in reality.

                                                          but it is the same with the theory of an evolution without God.

                                                          Not really. Evolution is an accepted and understood field of science with authentic and verifiable evidence to support it that anyone can peer review. God is not. To credit God with evolution just devalues evolution itself as an attempt to explain it without understanding it. You're basically saying "God did it," but provide or prove nothing to support that idea.

                                                          • 3 votes
                                                          #24.52 - Sat Aug 8, 2009 2:51 PM EDT
                                                          Greg&Jeff

                                                          GREG&JEFF-""They think they know better than anyone....even God himself apparently.""

                                                          Yes, God does know better than everyone.

                                                          That's not what I said. I said God's FOLLOWERS seem to think they know better than God. How about you stop trying to twist my words around and how about we get back to living our lives without the intervention of our fellow mankind. I want my free will. Do not stand in the way of it.

                                                          • 4 votes
                                                          #24.53 - Sat Aug 8, 2009 4:52 PM EDT
                                                          Auteur 1536

                                                          How does quoting the bible make me look condenscending and arrogant?

                                                          Because you're forcing your beliefs on people and trying to make it look like you're better than everyone else just because you read the bible.

                                                          Remind me when you quote something out of any book to let you know you sound arrogant and condenscending.

                                                          I dont' quote books because I can think for myself.

                                                          No one can really take your choices away.

                                                          Prop 8 and the anti-abortionists.

                                                          God gave us instructions to live by, a guide to what is acceptable and what is not.

                                                          No, Man gave us instructions to live by and a guide to what is acceptable.

                                                          • 6 votes
                                                          #24.54 - Sat Aug 8, 2009 6:20 PM EDT
                                                          Greg&Jeff

                                                          Prop 8 and the anti-abortionists.

                                                          And the anti-adoption ballot measures as well.

                                                          • 5 votes
                                                          #24.55 - Sat Aug 8, 2009 6:34 PM EDT
                                                          Auteur 1536

                                                          Yep, yep, yep.

                                                          • 2 votes
                                                          #24.56 - Sat Aug 8, 2009 6:49 PM EDT
                                                          jamithy1

                                                          excellent presentation of valid points newsblog.... top notch debater.

                                                            #24.57 - Sat Aug 8, 2009 11:10 PM EDT
                                                            jamithy1

                                                            oh Cobra, I too have read the bible, I was raised having a to read it nightly. It was this experience and my ability to think for myself that brought me to the conclusion that it is in fact nothing more than a book of stories.

                                                            Granted the bible lays out some very good examples that if society lived by those principles, the world would be a better place. But that is just what it is a book of stories with alot of good principles, it also has alot of what are clearly the personal bias' of the writers and perhaps the view of most at the time, as opposed to Gods word, verbatim.

                                                            • 4 votes
                                                            #24.58 - Sat Aug 8, 2009 11:17 PM EDT
                                                            Auteur 1536

                                                            Bush read the bible and look where he got us.

                                                            • 3 votes
                                                            #24.59 - Sun Aug 9, 2009 1:06 AM EDT
                                                            gt350cobra

                                                            "Because you're forcing your beliefs on people and trying to make it look like you're better than everyone else just because you read the bible."--AUTEUR

                                                            "Prop 8 and the anti-abortionists."--AUTEUR

                                                            Again How can I force my beliefs on you.To quote out of the bible and tell you what I believe is by no means trying to force anything on you. Do I think you are trying to force your unbelief on me because you disagree with me? No.

                                                            And it wasn't me who said that murdering babies should be illegal, talk to the politicians about that. Although I agree with it I am not a politician, I can't make laws.

                                                            Do you believe everyone who believes what the bible says and quotes it thinks they are better than everyone else and arrogant?

                                                              #24.60 - Sun Aug 9, 2009 6:59 PM EDT
                                                              Auteur 1536

                                                              To quote out of the bible and tell you what I believe is by no means trying to force anything on you.

                                                              Yes you are because you're expecting us to read them.

                                                              It makes you look condescending and arrogant to post bible quotes on the internet in a public discussion. You're trying to get people to read the bible when a lot of people don't want to read the bible because the either don't believe in God (who doesn't exist) and or they may have different set of beliefs and reading the bible violates their beliefs.

                                                              And it wasn't me who said that murdering babies should be illegal

                                                              It's misogynistic to call them babies because you implicate women as incubators and you're causing psychological damage to women who don't want to give birth to those fetuses.

                                                              • 5 votes
                                                              #24.61 - Sun Aug 9, 2009 9:18 PM EDT
                                                              Jack Huang

                                                              I'd rather believe... and perhaps be wrong. No harm no foul. Then not believe and be wrong. That's just me. Why take the gamble? Eternity in hell would suck would it not?

                                                              its still a gamble betting on it being 'false' when it could very well be 'true'. Apparently you all are a gambling bunch.

                                                              SR, my dear chap, surely you're not so dense as to thin you're actually making the safe bet by believing in a specific religious God, do you?

                                                              There is quite a preponderance of gods and goddesses out there, and more thana few of them have a mutual worship exclusivity clause built into their spiritual contracts, much like your God (e.g. the First Commandment).

                                                              As such, do you think, say, Thor would treat you, a person who groveled before a false idol better (or even as well as) a person who simply did not grovel before anything? I rather doubt it.

                                                              So, you see, your justification of Pascal's Wager works only to your detriment, for Pascal's Wager is a fallacy.

                                                              I find it also funny that every funeral I have been too... and everyone who does.. they always say "They are in a better place..." or "they are in Heaven now". Funny when so many people.. especially on NV seems to think God and the Bible are one big fairy tale. I wonder how you and your families funerals play out. Maybe something to the tune of "He died.. lived a good life... he is gone forever... and you'll never see him again.. because there is no god.. no heaven.. no afterlife... just decay.. and fading away into nothingness because.. there is no god.. no heaven". Yep. Is that how it works for you non-religious folk? How glum yes? If not.. your all hypocrites. You non christian folk who think its a fairy tale.. make sure to put in your will.. no funeral with any mention of GOD, HEAVEN, AFTERLIFE, etc etc.

                                                              My dear boy, are you really so moronically arrogant to think that Christianity has a monopoly on the concept of an afterlife? Tsk. Ironic, noting the religious concept of "hubris", and jesus' own words regarding humility.

                                                              And since you ask, no matter how sneeringly, I don't particularly intend on anyone announcing that I'm in a better place at my funeral. I see no point in the charade.

                                                              • 7 votes
                                                              #24.62 - Sun Aug 9, 2009 11:01 PM EDT
                                                              jamithy1

                                                              JAck....

                                                              perhaps there is a reason that so many religions have this belief in the afterlife. (I'm atheist). IMO people appear to have this "need" for the existence of a "GOD", whichever one you follow, and a "need" to believe in an afterlife, because they can't accept that when you die, you simply are dead, like all other living organisms. It shows in our everyday lives in the way we treat animals and the environment around us, that we feel that we are some how more special than everything else and therefore there MUST be something else after we die.

                                                              Here is a thought for you... If there is an afterlife that is out there and if everybody wants to go to "heaven" that is some wonderful place where we meet god and the angels, where everything is good and peaceful.... Then why do we all fear dying so much and will we do anything to stay alive?

                                                              Perhaps it is the fact that deep down inside, despite what we tell ourselves and despite what we preach to others.... we know that we are simply dead, that we have come to our end, No hell, no heaven, no joy, no pian... but simply nothingness, we cease to be.

                                                              and last but not least, if you still believe in heaven and hell, and that God is so loving and just, consider this.. What kind of LOVING, caring, just being would be so cruel as to sentence "sinners" to eternal torture and pain in a pit of fire? Even our imperfect lowly human system of justice finds torture repugnant and unacceptable, Yet you claim this great god of yours resorts to such tactics? You can have your God if so.

                                                              • 3 votes
                                                              #24.63 - Mon Aug 10, 2009 10:17 AM EDT
                                                              Jack Huang

                                                              IMO people appear to have this "need" for the existence of a "GOD", whichever one you follow, and a "need" to believe in an afterlife, because they can't accept that when you die, you simply are dead, like all other living organisms.

                                                              I agree. It's a way to avoid accepting the finality of death, as no one really dies -- they just go somewhere else.

                                                              • 6 votes
                                                              #24.64 - Mon Aug 10, 2009 1:07 PM EDT
                                                              jamithy1

                                                              its amazing isn't it? how some can make such a clear and obvious answer so cloudy and muddled?

                                                              Thats why I live my life to the fullest now, because you only get one. there's no "I'm just waiting till, I die.... life gets much better after that"

                                                              • 2 votes
                                                              #24.65 - Mon Aug 10, 2009 1:51 PM EDT
                                                              gt350cobra

                                                              "Yes you are because you're expecting us to read them.

                                                              It makes you look condescending and arrogant to post bible quotes on the internet in a public discussion. You're trying to get people to read the bible when a lot of people don't want to read the bible because the either don't believe in God (who doesn't exist) and or they may have different set of beliefs and reading the bible violates their beliefs.

                                                              It's misogynistic to call them babies because you implicate women as incubators and you're causing psychological damage to women who don't want to give birth to those fetuses."-AUTEUR

                                                              Does personal responsibilty mean nothing to you?

                                                              Why do you feel forced to read what I write? If it offends you so much don't read it.

                                                                #24.66 - Mon Aug 10, 2009 9:25 PM EDT
                                                                Jack Huang

                                                                Does personal responsibilty mean nothing to you?

                                                                Gotta love how the anti-choicers trot out "personal responsibility" in defense of a legal move which will take away abortion, which is an expression of personal responsibility. Further laughable is the great overlap between the anti-choice crowd and the abstinence-only-education crowd, as if the straitjacketed blind man is the paragon of personal responsibility.

                                                                Wasn't Eve originally a man? So technically it'd be Adam and Steve.

                                                                Eve, the world's first transgendered person.

                                                                • 4 votes
                                                                #24.67 - Mon Aug 10, 2009 9:52 PM EDT
                                                                Auteur 1536

                                                                Does personal responsibilty mean nothing to you?

                                                                So it's a woman's responsibility if she gets raped? Or her responsibility if the fetus in her body is dying? Or her responsibility if she dies in childbirth or from pregnancy complications. Was it that 9 yr old in Brazil's responsibility when her stepfather raped her? Please explain your so-called "logic," if you can.

                                                                Eve, the world's first transgendered person.

                                                                Amen to that.

                                                                • 6 votes
                                                                #24.68 - Mon Aug 10, 2009 10:24 PM EDT
                                                                drbacon

                                                                Auteur. I hope you had a good weekend.

                                                                I see that you still haven't learned much. You try to come off as if you have some knowledge of the bible yet you actually know nothing. Perhaps you have had some religious influence in your early life but you learned only what a church teaches and not what the Bible really says.

                                                                NO. Eve was not originally a man. There is nothing in the Bible to even suggest that. I know you don't believe the Bible so this won't mean anything to you but, according to the Bible, Adam was formed from the ground (clay) and given the attributes of a male human. Eve was formed separately from the ground and given female attributes. The reference to a rib being taken from Adam and put into Eve does not even remotely suggest that she was a male. It is to symbolize that she was a part of Adam and hence the term "woman" meaning "from the womb of man". The Bible no where teaches that homosexuality is "normal" God made man (mankind) male and female and plainly says that they were to populate the earth. Homosexuals can't do this. Since you don't believe in the Bible you obviously don't have any understanding of it. I think this is what Cobra is getting at. If you don't believe it and want to berate those who do at least get enough knowledge of it to make an intelligent argument.

                                                                  #24.69 - Tue Aug 11, 2009 12:17 AM EDT
                                                                  Jack Huang

                                                                  according to the Bible, Adam was formed from the ground (clay) and given the attributes of a male human. Eve was formed separately from the ground and given female attributes. The reference to a rib being taken from Adam and put into Eve does not even remotely suggest that she was a male. It is to symbolize that she was a part of Adam and hence the term "woman" meaning "from the womb of man".

                                                                  I missed the Biblical footnote that said "Hey, that rib ain't a real one, just a symbolic one!"

                                                                  Many Christians missed that one, as well. Maybe God should've written it in bigger.

                                                                  The Bible no where teaches that homosexuality is "normal"

                                                                  The Bible also taught that slavery was okay and disobedient children should be stoned. Oh, and it makes no specific comment on pistol-whipping grandparents, so I'm sure that's okay.

                                                                  Homosexuals can't do this.

                                                                  Homosexuals aren't necessarily sterile.

                                                                  Since you don't believe in the Bible you obviously don't have any understanding of it.

                                                                  And since I don't believe in Santa, I have no idea what he does. This, of course, makes perfect sense. Similarly, I'm not a Nazi, so I have no understanding of Nazism.

                                                                  • 4 votes
                                                                  #24.70 - Tue Aug 11, 2009 11:07 AM EDT
                                                                  gt350cobra

                                                                  According to "THE CENTER OF BIO ETHICAL REFORM", also from ALAN GUTTMACHER institute only 1% of 1.37 million abortions were due to the woman being raped. I looked at other sites that were more current and they reflected the same or close to the same statistics. Such as WEB.MD.

                                                                  So besides the 1% Where does personal responsibilty come in? And if personal responsibilty has nothing to do with it than you are saying that it is fine for a woman to just murder the baby that has its own heart beat? (Look I understand that we all have our own choice and freedom to do what we will, and I understand it is legal to get an abortion) And if it has its own heartbeat just like you or I than why is it not murder? I probably know what you will say, becasue it is a fetus and not human. Well last I checked all humans lives start in the womb, why should it make them less human....to justify an abortion?

                                                                  What I I am talking about is the majority of abortions are from women not wanting the responsibilty of having a child. As far as the cases go in which the mothers life is at stake,(which is very few) I personally would not want my wife to be in that situation but in that case I would have an abortion, to save my wife's life, either way it is a @!$%#ty decision to have to make.

                                                                  But I am talking about the women who have a one nght stand, or are fully capable of raising a child and get pregnant, and then decide not to take full responsibilty for their actions, the fathers of these soon to be murdered babies are just as responsible.

                                                                  DRBACON-I agree, it seems like some would rather put labels on people they disagree with.

                                                                    #24.71 - Tue Aug 11, 2009 5:32 PM EDT
                                                                    The Lighthearted Liberal

                                                                    Hey! Isn't this supposed to be about gay to straight therapy?!?

                                                                    Here's something that would tie the two together in an interesting way:

                                                                    If it was scientifically proven that the "gay gene", or a combination of genes that would increase the chances of an individual being gay, do you think that the church would feel differently about abortion? Food for thought....

                                                                    I'm both gay and pro-choice, but I often wonder what would happen in this scenario. What would become the lesser of two evils for the church?

                                                                    • 3 votes
                                                                    #24.72 - Tue Aug 11, 2009 5:44 PM EDT
                                                                    Jack Huang

                                                                    And if it has its own heartbeat just like you or I than why is it not murder?

                                                                    Why that dividing line? Are you saying that you're okay with abortion up until the point when the fetus's heart starts beating? After all, the heart doesn't start beating at conception--the heart doesn't even exist at conception.

                                                                    I probably know what you will say, becasue it is a fetus and not human. Well last I checked all humans lives start in the womb, why should it make them less human....to justify an abortion?

                                                                    Don't bet on those odds, kiddo. What constitutes "human" is an utterly meaningless diversion from the abortion debate. A sperm cell, a 16-year-old girl, and a cyst are all human. However, only one of them is a person.

                                                                    But I am talking about the women who have a one nght stand, or are fully capable of raising a child and get pregnant, and then decide not to take full responsibilty for their actions, the fathers of these soon to be murdered babies are just as responsible.

                                                                    And I'm sure you have credible sources to fully support the notion that all abortions arise either from rape or one-night stands, right? Or, do you have statistics that say what percentage of abortions arise directly from one-night stands?

                                                                    After all, I'd hate to think that you simply thought your entire audience was composed of morons who'd be fooled by (so far) your strawman argument. :-)

                                                                    • 4 votes
                                                                    #24.73 - Tue Aug 11, 2009 5:46 PM EDT
                                                                    Lola-984242

                                                                    But I am talking about the women who have a one nght stand, or are fully capable of raising a child and get pregnant, and then decide not to take full responsibilty for their actions

                                                                    Thanks for responding to that Jack, gt350cobra's statement was extremely misogynistic.

                                                                    gt350cobra get a clue buddy, you have no idea what your talking about!

                                                                    • 3 votes
                                                                    #24.74 - Tue Aug 11, 2009 5:54 PM EDT
                                                                    Auteur 1536

                                                                    What I I am talking about is the majority of abortions are from women not wanting the responsibilty of having a child.

                                                                    So teenage girls, especially young teenage girls 13 to 15, who get abortions because they aren't ready for a baby are being irresponsible?

                                                                    Do you also believe the morning-after pill is an abortion?

                                                                    But I am talking about the women who have a one nght stand, or are fully capable of raising a child and get pregnant, and then decide not to take full responsibilty

                                                                    And what if the woman was drugged and raped? Women who are given date rape drugs almost never remember was went on.

                                                                    • 2 votes
                                                                    #24.75 - Tue Aug 11, 2009 8:34 PM EDT
                                                                    Lola-984242

                                                                    1. Please stop making assumptions on why a girl/woman would choose to have an abortion. It's no ones business as to why. It is her decision to make, PERIOD!

                                                                    2. It is no ones business.

                                                                    3. This seed is not about abortion.

                                                                    • 2 votes
                                                                    #24.76 - Tue Aug 11, 2009 8:42 PM EDT
                                                                    drbacon

                                                                    Auteur your analogy of the teenage girl getting pregnant is off base. The fact that she got pregnant in the first place shows irresponsibility on her part then add to that the abortion. Two wrongs don't make a right. People need to start taking responsibility for their actions and 13-15 years old is not too early to start.

                                                                    Lola-984242 As much as it grieves me to have to agree with you on something, you are right about one thing. How in the world did we get off track in discussing abortion here?

                                                                      #24.77 - Tue Aug 11, 2009 11:06 PM EDT
                                                                      drbacon

                                                                      Jack Huang. You and Auteur are two of a kind. I think you both like to argue just to hear your empty heads echo. echo echo echo.

                                                                      • 1 vote
                                                                      #24.78 - Wed Aug 12, 2009 7:20 AM EDT
                                                                      Rygar

                                                                      drbacon that would be a fallacy of ad hominum which renders your argument mute and pointless. Belittling another person's debate with an insult makes you look childish and uneducated.

                                                                      • 8 votes
                                                                      #24.79 - Wed Aug 12, 2009 7:34 AM EDT
                                                                      Auteur 1536

                                                                      I do my reasearch, what do you do drbacon?

                                                                      • 3 votes
                                                                      #24.80 - Wed Aug 12, 2009 7:54 PM EDT
                                                                      drbacon

                                                                      And yet I put up with pointless belittlement all the time with out complaining. I guess conservatives are better able to keep there cool. Eh?

                                                                      I'm out of here. This topic is dead. See you on another vine.

                                                                        #24.81 - Thu Aug 13, 2009 12:03 AM EDT
                                                                        Rygar

                                                                        Avoiding the question eh?

                                                                        And yet I put up with pointless belittlement all the time with out complaining. I guess conservatives are better able to keep there cool. Eh?

                                                                        The town hall discussions beg to differ, Christians that oppose people who are gay refutes your statement.

                                                                        • 1 vote
                                                                        #24.82 - Thu Aug 13, 2009 7:46 AM EDT
                                                                        Auteur 1536

                                                                        Save your words Rygar.

                                                                          #24.83 - Thu Aug 13, 2009 8:38 AM EDT
                                                                          Rygar

                                                                          Sorry

                                                                            #24.84 - Thu Aug 13, 2009 8:43 AM EDT
                                                                            Auteur 1536

                                                                            You don't have to apologize.

                                                                              #24.85 - Thu Aug 13, 2009 8:50 AM EDT
                                                                              Reply
                                                                              gobbledegook

                                                                              and that goes double for vice versa

                                                                              • 1 vote
                                                                              Reply#25 - Wed Aug 5, 2009 11:41 PM EDT
                                                                              igoforo

                                                                              this is just a general statement about this thread. Who cares who really f-ing cares. I have spent most of my life not care one single bit about anybody sexual preference. If you choose to have sex with a ostrich I don't care unless you have some sort of need to make sure I know you do. Then it becomes a issue and I am out and you are gone. I look for people substance and not people who are so shallow that there sex life is all they have about them that's interesting. Get a life people , get a real life!

                                                                              • 1 vote
                                                                              Reply#26 - Wed Aug 5, 2009 11:44 PM EDT
                                                                              Just_some_guy

                                                                              igoforo,

                                                                              I notice this general statement pop up a lot. The "who cares, you should all go get a life." It shows up in all sorts of seeds, but more so in ones regarding homosexuals.

                                                                              What gets me is that I'm being told to get a life, by a person taking the time to post in a seed that they view to be...inconsequential, I guess.

                                                                              I'm not trying to say anything one way or the other about the statement, but it really does make one stop and think for a moment. I'm being told to get a life by someone with nothing better to do than to go into articles and talk about how sad it is that people are talking about it.

                                                                              • 7 votes
                                                                              #26.1 - Thu Aug 6, 2009 12:05 AM EDT
                                                                              Auteur 1536

                                                                              Get a life people

                                                                              And you're here why?

                                                                              • 6 votes
                                                                              #26.2 - Thu Aug 6, 2009 12:31 AM EDT
                                                                              drbacon

                                                                              And you're here why?

                                                                              • 1 vote
                                                                              #26.3 - Thu Aug 6, 2009 6:33 AM EDT
                                                                              Darreth01

                                                                              Could we please cut the old "I know you are but what am I?" CRAP

                                                                              If you don't think this is worth your time then go find a NASCAR discussion or check and see who won America's Got Talent!

                                                                              • 4 votes
                                                                              #26.4 - Thu Aug 6, 2009 6:41 AM EDT
                                                                              drbacon

                                                                              Ok. How about "I'm rubber and you're glue...." lol

                                                                                #26.5 - Fri Aug 7, 2009 12:25 AM EDT
                                                                                Reply
                                                                                Auteur 1536

                                                                                Any psychologist, psychiatrist, or mental health professional of any kind, who tells a gay person they need therapy to turn straight should lose their license.

                                                                                • 9 votes
                                                                                Reply#27 - Wed Aug 5, 2009 11:48 PM EDT
                                                                                drbacon

                                                                                Not necessarily so Auteur. psychology like any medical field is not an exact science. That is why it is called a "practice" The exact causes of homosexuality are not known but research may be able to help us pinpoint this abnormality. However it is a psychological problem regardless of whether it is a chemical or hormonal imbalance. There has been some research that has shown that some types of therapy and drugs can correct this abnormality to some extent but it is still generally recognised that homosexuals are borne with this, not caused by psychological situations after birth as some people erroneously claim.

                                                                                • 1 vote
                                                                                #27.1 - Thu Aug 6, 2009 6:42 AM EDT
                                                                                eriq samson

                                                                                it's not an abnormality; it is natural and occurs in thousands of species (which also dsays it is genetic, chemical or hormonal would not explain the ast variation of species including fish, insects, birds, mammals, reptiles, et. al.

                                                                                You are no Doctor and really have no idea what you are talking about

                                                                                • 5 votes
                                                                                #27.2 - Thu Aug 6, 2009 8:50 AM EDT
                                                                                Jack Huang

                                                                                However it is a psychological problem regardless of whether it is a chemical or hormonal imbalance.

                                                                                It's as much of a problem as lefthandedness.

                                                                                • 6 votes
                                                                                #27.3 - Thu Aug 6, 2009 9:38 AM EDT
                                                                                Auteur 1536

                                                                                However it is a psychological problem regardless of whether it is a chemical or hormonal imbalance.

                                                                                Can you back up this claim?

                                                                                • 2 votes
                                                                                #27.4 - Thu Aug 6, 2009 3:27 PM EDT
                                                                                drbacon

                                                                                I could take the time to do that Auteur if you really wanted to see it. But your mind is made up on the subject and I know from the past that you will argue with me no matter what I say. Even when I agree with you. lol

                                                                                  #27.5 - Fri Aug 7, 2009 12:31 AM EDT
                                                                                  Auteur 1536

                                                                                  That means your claim is bull and nothing but homophobic propaganda.

                                                                                  • 4 votes
                                                                                  #27.6 - Fri Aug 7, 2009 12:41 AM EDT
                                                                                  drbacon

                                                                                  Ha ha. You're cute Auteur. No, it means that I am at work right now and don't have the time. It also means that I do not have all of my resources available that are on my lap top at home. I am not homophobic. I was at one time until I was enlightened to the reality of homosexuality. So don't go around pasting labels on people you don't even know. Now if you will excuse me, my break time is over.

                                                                                    #27.7 - Fri Aug 7, 2009 3:00 AM EDT
                                                                                    Auteur 1536

                                                                                    However it is a psychological problem regardless of whether it is a chemical or hormonal imbalance.

                                                                                    Can you back up this claim?

                                                                                    • 3 votes
                                                                                    #27.8 - Fri Aug 7, 2009 3:07 AM EDT
                                                                                    drbacon

                                                                                    Short answer: YES.

                                                                                      #27.9 - Fri Aug 7, 2009 5:42 AM EDT
                                                                                      jamithy1

                                                                                      how old is the info you have to back it up? Because as we can see untill recently this medical association probably use the same erronious info, and have now admitted that it is in fact incorrect, so it had better be hot off the press studies you are using.

                                                                                      • 3 votes
                                                                                      #27.10 - Fri Aug 7, 2009 10:23 AM EDT
                                                                                      Reply
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