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Funny money no laughing matter

Fri Aug 7, 2009 7:59 AM EDT
business, technology, only-on-msnbc-com, currency, fake, bills, secret-service, counterfeit, crime--courts, counterfeiting
msnbc.com News — Alex Johnson, msnbc.com - Only on msnbc.com
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— Nicholas Ostergaard has a new policy at the Jukebox, the deli and pub he owns in Indian Trail, N.C.: “No more hundreds.”

The Jukebox now accepts nothing bigger than a $50 bill after a teenager paid for an $11 order last month with what turned out to be a fake $100 bill and walked away with $89 in change.

“I instantly thought it was fake,” Ostergaard said. But when he checked the bill with a detector pen — a common device that uses iodine to verify U.S. currency — “it came up it was real.”

That made the deli another victim in what the U.S. Secret Service said was an ambitious counterfeiting operation that has spread as much as $60,000 in phony currency at businesses from Hickory to Greensboro, in central North Carolina, just since May.

Law enforcement officials said the operation was probably quashed when Union County sheriff’s deputies arrested two teenagers last month. But before then, they said, the teens were responsible for creating hundreds of fake $100 bills good enough to fool shop owners, bank tellers and even detector pens on initial inspection.

The evidence is only anecdotal at this point, but law enforcement officials and business owners across the country say they have seen a significant spike in the circulation of counterfeit currency since the economy started to sour more than a year and a half ago:

“Sometimes, the economy is related to an increase in crime,” said Randel Henderson, the deputy police chief in DeLand, Fla., near Orlando. “If the economy is bad ... and [people] have the technology to make money, historically they do.”

Scope of losses hard to calculate
There is no way to get a precise measurement of the counterfeiting problem, the Secret Service and other law enforcement officials say. Federal crime statistics for 2008, the first full year of the recession, are not yet complete, and in any event, by definition, a successful counterfeit is never detected and accounted for.

The Secret Service, the federal agency responsible for investigating counterfeiting, said it remains a minor issue, estimating that fake bills make up three-tenths of 1 percent of currency in circulation, up from about one-tenth of 1 percent 10 years ago.

That may not seem like much, but with hundreds of billions of dollars circulating at any one time, it’s a lot of funny money — about $2.6 billion, based on Federal Reserve calculations of total paper currency in circulation in June, the last month for which figures were available.

The figure is actually likely to be even higher, because counterfeiters generally prefer the bigger bills. They make $20 bills and larger because the ones, fives and tens that make up much of what is in your wallet simply aren’t worth their time.

That’s how Christopher Paul Runge of Denton, Texas, operated. Runge was charged last month with printing thousands of dollars in fake twenties, fifties and hundreds; in a jailhouse interview with NBC station KXAS of Dallas, Runge admitted running the operation and described how it worked.

Runge and his alleged accomplices would wash $5 bills with a solvent to remove the ink. Once the ink was gone, they would use a computer printer to produce higher-denomination bills. Because the paper under the ink was real U.S. currency, counterfeit-detecting iodine pens would indicate that the bills were legitimate.

Police said they were tipped off when an accomplice goofed and tried to pass some lower-quality $20 bills at a pharmacy, whose cashier called police. The majority of the bills were of much better quality and have yet to be detected, Runge said, boasting that “some of these bills will stay in circulation for quite a while.”

Asked why he did it, Runge said, “We were needing to pay rent — economy’s down.”

Fake bills don’t have to be perfect
The technique is the same one used by the counterfeiters in North Carolina and in most relatively successful operations elsewhere.

Since 1989, when the Secret Service spotted the first of the so-called Supernotes — real U.S. money bleached and reprinted to pass as higher-denomination bills — the U.S. Treasury has made a slew of changes in the design of currency to make it harder to counterfeit: Some bills have changed colors; portraits of the dead white men that grace them have been re-engraved and set off-center; hard-to-mimic multicolor security threads have been embedded in the paper; even harder-to-mimic watermarks have been incorporated.

In the government’s eyes, those measures have largely worked. It is much more difficult to get a fake note past sophisticated tests than it used to be, often when it is deposited at a Federal Reserve Bank, the Secret Service said.

The problem is that the same computer technology that makes bills so hard to reproduce in detail also makes it easier to create fake bills that are just good enough to get by the convenience store clerk, the gas station attendant and — crucially — the iodine detector pen. While the Fed may catch the fake later, the counterfeiter is far away with his profit.

Even the Secret Service acknowledged in its recently released 2008 annual report that “the widespread use of personal computers and advancements in digital printing technology has provided more individuals the opportunity to manufacture a passable counterfeit note with relative ease.”

And because federal law makes no provision for reimbursing the victim of a counterfeiter, it’s the business owner who’s left holding the bag.

Since a bleach-and-print counterfeiting ring began victimizing businesses in Ocean Springs, Miss., last month, Holly Skinner, general manager of Mediterraneo restaurant, has directed her clerks to take “anything above a 50” to the manager on duty for immediate inspection.

“You’re not getting one over on a bank or on the government,” Skinner said. “You’re cheating any local business that’s — especially in this economy — doing their best and struggling through and trying to stay open for the public.”

Misty Koperski, a clerk at Coffins Corner, a convenience store in Grand Island, Neb., was handed a fake $20 bill a few weeks ago by a man trying to buy cigarettes.

“You know, you are just out,” Koperski said. “You might as well have lit up the money and burned it, because it’s gone.”

‘In Dog We Trust’
Law enforcement officials say you should be able to spot most funny money if you’re reasonably observant, even with fake bills that are reprinted over real money.

The telltale clue is often the watermark, which is the shimmery portrait that “reflects back and forth much like a hologram does on a credit card,” said Jeff Kelly, a Secret Service agent in southern Florida. It takes more sophistication than a garden-variety counterfeiter can manage to pull off faking one of those.

The key is that the watermark is supposed to match the portrait on the front — on a $50 bill, they’re both supposed to be the same image of Ulysses S. Grant, for example.

In other words, if you’re handed a legitimate-looking $50 bill but the watermark shows Abraham Lincoln, you’ve actually got a $5 bill. Authorities said businesses would catch a lot of fake bills if their employees would take only a few seconds to make that simple inspection at the time of the transaction. But because they don’t, even obvious fakes regularly slip through.

That’s what happened last week at Lean Bean Espresso in Coeur d’Alene, Idaho, where a man persuaded an employee to change a $100 bill. Only later did she notice that it was phony.

The signs were pretty obvious: In the portrait, Benjamin Franklin’s name was misspelled as “Franken”; on the back, the motto read “In Dog We Trust.” And on the front was an easy-to-read note: “For motion picture use only.”

It was a Hollywood prop.

The shop’s manager said the employee was being retrained.

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CJ66

Well, isn't it just as good as the money the US Treasury is dishing out right now? Seems to me there wasn't much difference between the $100 and the $89 he got back in change. Was there?

  • 8 votes
#1 - Fri Aug 7, 2009 8:58 AM EDT
rick-730834

I think you mean the Federal Reserve,with the unending ,never sleeping printing press,the Treasury just gives them the blessing {Timmy Tax Cheat Giethner} to go with it...

  • 7 votes
#1.1 - Fri Aug 7, 2009 9:15 AM EDT
rick-730834

you where right, other way around,my bad...The Fed distributes it...ah whatever,crooks either way you look at 'em.

  • 6 votes
#1.2 - Fri Aug 7, 2009 9:22 AM EDT
american vet

Uh, CJ, the quality of paper the govt uses is much better than the funnymoney paper. Other than that there isn't much difference.

  • 3 votes
#1.3 - Fri Aug 7, 2009 10:57 AM EDT
CJ66

Nobody said "$11". How come you missed that?

    #1.4 - Fri Aug 7, 2009 11:03 AM EDT
    Hoofarted

    the U.S. Treasury has made a slew of changes in the design of currency to make it harder to counterfeit: Some bills have changed colors; portraits of the dead white men that grace them have been re-engraved and set off-center;

    Dead white men? Is this not a racist jab that has no relevence to the story? Or is it just the first shot in the lib battle to get Obama on the currency, too? Perhaps the three dollar bill.....

    • 6 votes
    #1.5 - Fri Aug 7, 2009 11:43 AM EDT
    Katethebratt

    Dead white men? Is this not a racist jab that has no relevence to the story? Or is it just the first shot in the lib battle to get Obama on the currency, too? Perhaps the three dollar bill..

    I don't know about racist, but disrespectful is absolute.

    • 6 votes
    #1.6 - Fri Aug 7, 2009 11:50 AM EDT
    eye43201

    Glad I'm not the only person who picked up on this line -- not sure if it's a slur, someone with an ax to grind, or a political agenda... but it sure did jump right out at me. So, who at MSNBC is asleep at the wheel in editing??!!

    • 6 votes
    #1.7 - Fri Aug 7, 2009 12:20 PM EDT
    interlink

    He got 89 real dollars for his fake 100.

      #1.8 - Fri Aug 7, 2009 12:37 PM EDT
      Howy61

      Why does everything these days have to be seen through a bigoted PC lens. The phrase Dead white men" is not uncommon in the context of US currency. Is the phrase:

      Racist = NO

      Disrespectful = NO

      Accurate = Yes

      Unsophisticated = Maybe

      • 1 vote
      #1.9 - Fri Aug 7, 2009 1:23 PM EDT
      Robert-1002436

      What the heck?? We have a black president and all of a sudden we have to define color??

       "Some bills have changed colors; portraits of the dead white men that grace them have been re-engraved and set off-center"

      Why didn't you just say "dead men"?? You are helping to proliferate racism as much as Obama is!!

      • 3 votes
      #1.10 - Fri Aug 7, 2009 1:32 PM EDT
      Paul B-1120948

      Actually, Obama (who is black) is propogating fake money as often as the counterfeiters.

      • 1 vote
      #1.11 - Fri Aug 7, 2009 1:44 PM EDT
      angie_gurl

      Ha, you said exactly what I logged in to say. IT'S ALL MONOPOLY MONEY, FOLKS. There's nothing backing it. It's fiat, fake, nada. Designed to fail.

      • 1 vote
      #1.12 - Sat Aug 8, 2009 9:31 AM EDT
      Ron-1106666

      If we must talk about money remember this: If I hand you a $50.00 bill what it is actually worth? Answer: It is worth nothing it is just a piece of paper w ink on it, made from trees. The money we use everyday in reality is worthless its just paper and ink, the only reason it has value is because we the people, businesses etc put a value on it.

      • 1 vote
      #1.13 - Sat Aug 8, 2009 9:50 AM EDT
      calling a spade a spade

      “Sometimes, the economy is related to an increase in crime,” said Randel Henderson, the deputy police chief.........

      sometimes?? ONLY "SOMETIMES"??? i THINK IT IS, HISTORICALLY, always!

      Robert-1002436

      What the heck?? We have a black president and all of a sudden we have to define color??

      "Some bills have changed colors; portraits of the dead white men that grace them have been re-engraved and set off-center"

      ok, I think the use of the word "dead" alone is tacky at best, the word "white" does NOT need to be specified, and "men" would be fine, but not phillisophically correct use of the word, by itself. personally speaking, I think they need to take a trip to the reporters "ghetto" where he grew up, and see if there was any "mishandlings" of pets as he grew up there. Alex Johnson, the reporter should be reported to his superiors for gruesome racist remarks.

      final drivel: "The shop’s manager said the employee was being retrained." so does the reporter!

      personal footnote: mexican "pesos" have a "plastic", untearable window, and many different colors. for a poor nation, not bad. I suggest checking the different styles of money from other countries too. we are WAYYYYYY behind

        #1.14 - Sun Aug 9, 2009 12:31 AM EDT
        A60750

        There could actually be a positive benefit to the counterfeitters: The counterfeit money is put into circulation at the local level where it will actually do some good to stimulate the economy, and it does not have to be borrowed from the Federal Reserve, who charges interest!

          #1.15 - Sun Aug 9, 2009 7:15 PM EDT
          Reply
          Conrad Shull-598028

          Not sure if $100 bills are necessary, except as impressive gifts in cards and for purchasing dope or bribing congressmen.

          • 3 votes
          Reply#2 - Fri Aug 7, 2009 9:32 AM EDT
          CJ66

          It does seem like $20 would be more logical! lol

          • 2 votes
          #2.1 - Fri Aug 7, 2009 9:46 AM EDT
          ladypyrate

          It is starting to trickle down to $20s. I have seen several fake 20's coming in business deposits.

          Most counterfiters go for a big bill because they belive (and rightly it turns out) most people won't really look at the bill, and just depend on the stupid iodine pen. I have seen the $100 printed on a $5, and everything we tested checked out, until we looked at the watermark and security strip, which clearly showed Lincoln and the "USA 5".

          • 2 votes
          #2.2 - Fri Aug 7, 2009 10:28 AM EDT
          Neil-798344

          The only time that anyone in my family has every gotten counterfeit money is from the BANK. Apparently their response to getting scammed is to get rid of the bill as fast as possible since reporting it to the Feds would lead to the money being confiscated...and the bank would be out that amount of money.

          That's why for that past few years I've refused to take anything larger than a $20 from any bank. I will still lose the amount of the bill, but I don't want to be out $100 at a single stroke.

          ...and yes, I talked with the bank managers each time...and they denied that they would EVER dispense counterfeit money.

            #2.3 - Mon Aug 10, 2009 8:09 AM EDT
            Reply
            CJ66

            Sometimes I don't know what all the uproar is about. It really doesn't matter whether the money is official or not, as long as it spends. It keeps people working and the economy moving, and it would be better if everybody would turn a blind eye and just keep on truckin'! What REAL harm could there be?

            • 2 votes
            #3 - Fri Aug 7, 2009 9:43 AM EDT
            Senior-355689

            Surely you are joking! Of course, counterfeiting is illegal & results in a jail sentence.

            Don't know if teenagers are judged as adults, but adult crimes should result in adult

            sentences.

            • 2 votes
            #3.1 - Fri Aug 7, 2009 9:57 AM EDT
            CJ66

            No, not joking. Money isn't "real" anyway. It's a medium for exchange of goods, and is supposed to be backed by something, but it isn't really. It's all a matter of faith. :)

            My question is: What REAL HARM could there be in just ignoring the fact of it's being phony and treating it like "real" money?

            • 2 votes
            #3.2 - Fri Aug 7, 2009 10:11 AM EDT
            ladypyrate

            The"harm" comes in because by federal law the only folks that can create official US currency is the US Govt.

            Believe it or not they know how much cash is in circulation at a given time, and one of the ways Govt attempts to curb inflation is by pulling money OUT of circulation if too much is in the pipeline. If anyone could print thier own money, it would throw off the Fed's ability to adjust the cash flow, creating a bigger mess than we already have.

            If you look at history, it used to be that individual banks, towns (and even businesses) could print thier own bills. The problem was when you left your town (or state etc) and tried to use the currency no one would accept it, becuase how would they know if it was good. Allowing counterfitters to do thier thing would create much the same issue.

            Since the Fed will not honor counterfit bills, if a bank recieves them in a deposit, they must confiscsate them from the depositor. Thus the business (or individual) incurrs a loss and they have no recourse. See there is a LOT of "harm" in this.

            • 2 votes
            #3.3 - Fri Aug 7, 2009 10:23 AM EDT
            CJ66

            But, LadyPyrate, if they just ignored the fact it was counterfeit, then the businesses would not be hurt, would they? And the Feds could just stop printing so much money! They could replace the phony bill with a real one and just keep on keepin' on, with no one the wiser. :)

            • 1 vote
            #3.4 - Fri Aug 7, 2009 10:35 AM EDT
            Virgo47

            Right on CJ

            As if all that money that existed merely as pixels that evaporated last October was real as well. When banks loan it into existence, it may never even become "cash" but merely bounce from owner to owner as a number in a bank account.

            Money printed by the government isn't backed by anything more than wishful thinking either. The fact that counterfeiters put a few thousand here and there into circulation is supposed to be a heinous crime, but when the Treasury simply prints more up, well that's okay.

            The results are exactly the same.

            • 3 votes
            #3.5 - Fri Aug 7, 2009 10:40 AM EDT
            Jeff-397806

            cj66.....Counterfeit money hurts everybody! If you or your company accidentally accept these bills you wind up the loser. If a large percentage of US currency was counterfeit nobody would accept them. How would you feel paying your bills in Susan B Anthony coins? Really, you need to put some thought into your worthless idea.

            I propose the death penalty for anyone printing counterfeit bills. No exception, no excuses, no long appeals.

            As for US money in general we need to eliminate the Federal Reserve System.

            • 2 votes
            #3.6 - Fri Aug 7, 2009 11:09 AM EDT
            Open-Eyed

            It doesn't matter if it's counterfeit or if it's not, I think you all missed the point. In an economic situation you have to look at how MUCH of that currency is in circulation. Lets say that we did ignore the counterfeit money and used it as real money...the only negative that would come of that is that the value of that dollar/paper goes down. If everybody were to print their own 100 dollar bills then the value goes down to being worthless. There is a picture, that I recall, of a woman pushing a wheelbarrow overflowing with bills and all it could buy her was a loaf of bread. Counterfeiting only hurts people and the economy in that it depreciates the value of the dollar.

            • 2 votes
            #3.7 - Fri Aug 7, 2009 11:33 AM EDT
            CJ66

            Jeff, the fact is, ENFORCING THE LAW against counterfeit money is what hurts businesses. That's why I say ACCEPT IT AS REAL, and then the businesses would not be hurt by it. You see?

              #3.8 - Fri Aug 7, 2009 11:34 AM EDT
              CJ66

              But OPENEYED, isn't that exactly what the US Treasury is doing with all the phony money they are printing? Decreasing the value of the dollar, right? Same thing. Only if we allowed for it after the fact of it being spent, it would really stimulate the economy, and protect the businesses, too. And then we could shrink the money supply once things picked up again.

              • 1 vote
              #3.9 - Fri Aug 7, 2009 11:38 AM EDT
              Greg-281912

              CJ has a good point.

              How many of us have been upset because our 401K lost money. (But it wasn't real money.)

              How many people are upset because their home has "lost value"> (But it isn't real money.)

              Absolutely counterfeiting is illegal. But CJ raises a good point.

              • 1 vote
              #3.10 - Fri Aug 7, 2009 11:39 AM EDT
              Hoofarted

              Sometimes I don't know what all the uproar is about. It really doesn't matter whether the money is official or not, as long as it spends. It keeps people working and the economy moving, and it would be better if everybody would turn a blind eye and just keep on truckin'! What REAL harm could there be?

              By that reasoning, CJ, if you really don't feel like working toward a driver's license then you should just be able to print your own, right? It doesn't matter whether it's official or not, as long as it works. It keeps people driving to work and the economy moving, and it would be better if everybody (cops included) would turn a blind eye and just keep on truckin'! What REAL harm could there be?

              • 1 vote
              #3.11 - Fri Aug 7, 2009 11:50 AM EDT
              Jeff-397806

              cj66...I still disagree with your idea to accept the counterfeit bills. Counterfeit bills are bills that are not real. They are phony and are a method of theft by the people printing them. If they were accepted everyone and their brother would start to print them! If it were legal or not criminal to print money I would print millions of dollars! I don't now because it is illegal, immoral, unethical and is a theft from anyone accepting them.

              Your point is that they are not a statistical problem and it costs money to try to catch the phony currency. That is just the way it is. If we accept phony currency we lose. I applaud the government for changing the appearance of the currency to deter counterfeiting. The security thread, micro printing, different colors, watermarks. Each security measure enhances the acceptance of our currency. It has been the standard for the world.

              As for inflation, government printing presses running none stop, US debt, gold and silver backed currency, etc. They are all other issues and we have really screwed them up big time.

              I can't believe I am having to defend the value of the dollar against anyone who would defend the practice of counterfeiting!

              • 1 vote
              #3.12 - Fri Aug 7, 2009 11:50 AM EDT
              Open-Eyed

              Yes, CJ the government can print out money, but they are able to regulate how much of the money is printed out and whereas we can't. You may think it makes sense but take an economic course and see that with the current regulations and counterfeits making up 1%-2% of money in circulation actually does create an even medium. The only thing that would happen is that the country would go down the crapper and the US dollar wouldn't compare to any other note in the world. If you believe that allowing everyone to print press their own fortune will ease money problems then you are mistaken. It creates more problems if there is not a central entity to drive the medium of exchange. Money is a bargaining chip on which people are able to agree on the value ratioed with the amount in circulation. Think if the US switched it's currency to gold and how much more valuable the currency would be, now think if all of a sudden the world was flooded with man manufactured gold and it were not as rare as presumed. The value goes down.

              • 2 votes
              #3.13 - Fri Aug 7, 2009 11:55 AM EDT
              CJ66

              OPENEYED, they still keep track of the money when it comes back through the banks. At that point they can decide to replace it or destroy it(while entering a digital dollar in the business bank account). It still gets back to what is the difference between the Treasury making phony money or some counterfeiter? It adds up to the same thing in the economy EXCEPT that the counterfeit money has already done the job of stimulating the economy.

              Same as pulling the rabbit out of the hat, either way you look at it. lol

                #3.14 - Fri Aug 7, 2009 12:09 PM EDT
                CJ66

                Hoofarted, I think it would be a good idea if people who could really drive would be left alone, and those that have driver's licenses and drive like idiots be removed from the streets. But this is about counterfeit money, not licenses.

                But if you look at it like that, having a license doesn't mean you know how to drive, does it?

                Same problem.

                • 1 vote
                #3.15 - Fri Aug 7, 2009 12:23 PM EDT
                Open-Eyed

                The counterfeit money DOES NOT stimulate the economy, because those who try to turn in their supposed "earnings" find out that they've lost profit. I've already answered your question and your sole argument is basically a free economy which history has shown will not work. You pay people to work people spend what they earn. If people are able to print their own money, then there's no need for work and there's no market.

                • 2 votes
                #3.16 - Fri Aug 7, 2009 12:36 PM EDT
                jeff myers

                Yea and maybe they will pay taxes on the money they print. It sound great CJ but if we all had money trees it would not be worth a peso.

                • 1 vote
                #3.17 - Fri Aug 7, 2009 1:52 PM EDT
                CarterStc

                Fair point. Since most money is just made-up by banks anyway, why can't the regular Joe do it too?!?

                  #3.18 - Fri Aug 7, 2009 1:56 PM EDT
                  Reply
                  Wabofiur

                  MSNBC posts gratuitous drivel like this, yet wonders why it is considered a liberal mouthpiece. :rolleyes:

                  "...portraits of the dead white men that grace them...."

                  • 3 votes
                  Reply#4 - Fri Aug 7, 2009 10:19 AM EDT
                  Open-Eyed

                  it's politically correct isn't it? Unless there are some dead black hispanics asians that I missed.

                    #4.1 - Fri Aug 7, 2009 11:12 AM EDT
                    e rawski

                    the guy who wrote this is a raciest commie.

                    • 4 votes
                    #4.2 - Fri Aug 7, 2009 11:31 AM EDT
                    Reply
                    Myce Elffe

                    Well, in answer to CJ66, money is "real," because it is the accepted mode of barter for goods and services.  The problem (*which you have recognised) is that our currency is no longer backed by something tangible - especially now that President Obama has directed the Treasury and the Fed to print out over a $Billion in new currency since his administration began.  Those who have studied (or even just glanced at) history should be able to see some MAJOR INFLATION coming - meaning the economy is just going to get worse.  They would have been able to have had at least a fighting chance if, instead of bailing out the banks and industries, they had just divvied that money up amonth American citizens.... making it taxable, of course.  The, the citizens would have been able to pay off their debts - which would have bailed out all the ailing banks, mortgage lending houses, automobile manufacturers, etc etc etc .... and would have kept the economy pumping.

                    BUT, since the government has seen fit to print money that doesn't have anything backing it, the major argument against counterfeiting is moot here ... now, the argument is "who should be allowed to print official-looking money, that is basically worthless?"

                    • 3 votes
                    Reply#5 - Fri Aug 7, 2009 10:33 AM EDT
                    CJ66

                    You know, this whole thing about our money being "backed" by anything is a complete illusion, really! The only real value money has is if we all agree on its value and agree to accept it as a means of exchange. What do you think all those IOU's in California are about?

                    Inflation is going to happen anyway. You know that. It's already happening. I am paying $1.57 a lb. for a $.69 a lb apple, already.

                    • 2 votes
                    #5.1 - Fri Aug 7, 2009 10:41 AM EDT
                    Myce Elffe

                    Ah, yes, California - TRULY a model to be held up as a shining example... (/sarcasm off ... by raising up that failure, you have lowered your credibility almost as much as if you had raised up the leadership of New Orleans a few years ago.... tsk tsk tsk...)

                    • 1 vote
                    #5.2 - Fri Aug 7, 2009 10:53 AM EDT
                    CJ66

                    Mea culpa. Bad example, huh? lol Will a retraction put me back in your good graces, Myce Elffe?

                    • 1 vote
                    #5.3 - Fri Aug 7, 2009 11:42 AM EDT
                    Reply
                    cs-1262180

                    CJSS is on point. What is difference between stimulating the economy at home with an HP color laser jet or Bernanke doing it? Either way it is just creating money out of thin air. These teenagers should be commended for "cutting out the middleman".

                    Hey seriously though, times are getting tough out there. Just the other day a guy tried to pass me a counterfeit quarter. I gave him back two fake pennies as change.

                    • 4 votes
                    Reply#6 - Fri Aug 7, 2009 10:47 AM EDT
                    Lor-562895

                    What does it matter, we have Congress borrowing and squandering the "funny money" for decades, while we worked hard earned labor hours and paid US Silver and Gold Certificates to the IRS who in turn gives it to the Federal Reserve Crooks as interest payments on the debt our government ran up to these crooks, now the vaults of silver and gold, used for backing our once good currency are empty, cashed out by the crooked Feds, ever wonder why the silver quarters and dimes in this nation slowly became more and more copper based? Why we quit printing Silver Certificates after John Kennedy's assination? Congress was using our backing power for our currency (silver and gold in US vaults) to pay the crooks their interest for their "unlimited" counterfiet loans. Now what do we pay the interest with??? For a start, we let them use their "funny money" to buy controlling interest into US Banks, and to justify this, they impliment a scam using illiterate and poor people to sell overpriced realestate, with ARM mortgages, then wait and continually, slowly raise the interest rates, until massive repossessions start causing a financial meltdown. Next they start using their funny money to buy into American companies who are struggling due to the meltdown, Auto Industries, Insurance Companies, Mortgage Companies, and now going after Medical and Oil companies, next will be the food suppliers (and all with counterfiet money). The US citizens own nothing in this nation as our leaders would have you believe, the Federal Reserve Owners are the ones who own controlling interest in all these private enterprises in this nation now. The citizens of this nation OWN nothing, they will however OWE the interest payments on this massive debt to the Federal Reserve and the IRS comes a knocking shortly to collect. Can't work? No Income to pay your interest share? You will be offered a loaf of bread and a sleeping bag in exchange for a 12 hour work day to pay your share, , refuse or too ill to work?? you will be sent to a doctor to discuss how you want to end your life under the terms of their new universal health program. You people think this is a joke, or reaching??? Follow the money trail through history. Why was Lincoln and Kennedy assinated? Because they followed our Constituion which calls for congress to NOT borrow money, but to PRINT our own currency (backed by silver and gold in US vaults). Remember the US Silver Certificates during Kennedy's presidency? Some of you may have one or two tucked away. Xerox it and send it to congress. Congress quit having our treasurer print US Silver Certificates immediately after John Kennedy's death, and went back to borrowing the unlimited funny money. Why ? Because with "unlimited" borrowing power they could increase their own paychecks, perks, per diems, expense accounts, travel, partying and entertaining, pork dealing, pensions, medical benefits and on and on,,,,no limit. But the Gold and Silver Standard our country was on would require they only could spend what was available in the vaults to back the printed certificates, in otherwords they would have to run a well balanced, budgeted administration with limits on pays, perks, per diems etc. Bottom line GREED, CONTROL, POWER, SELF-SERVING WANTS (not needs) WANTS. All I can say at this point is this can be fixed, but it's not going to happen by venting on this site. You need to flood your representatives email boxes and phone lines, you need to flood the Whitehouse email site and phone lines, calling for the abolishment of the Federal Reserve system out of our nation, by printing our own currency as our CONSTITUTION DEMANDS THEY DO, or Nationalize the Federal Reserve Banks, taking ownership, The first way is more favorable to all US Citizens as our Constitution was installed in this nation to protect this nation and ALL of it's citizens and it was created by "fair and just" people who had the best interest of all who lived here included in that Constitution. Start venting where it may (or may not at this point, as Washington D.C. seems to have gone deaf and blind to the citizens voices and mail) count, contact them, demand they return to the Constitution of this nation. Or get in line for your assignment, which will be handed down shortly.

                    • 4 votes
                    Reply#7 - Fri Aug 7, 2009 10:49 AM EDT
                    CJ66

                    LOR, you are absolutely right! We need to separate government entities from private business people. That's where we went wrong, no doubt.

                    As for the anyone pushing the "gold standard", they should realize that gold is not "goods" either. Gold is absolutely useless in times of famine or drought. You can't buy things that aren't there.

                    We need a "fair exchange " policy in which we can calibrate the necessary movement of goods and services through the economy that is not based on any mythical "value" of paper money. This would be a way to take care of the environment, too.

                      #7.1 - Fri Aug 7, 2009 11:00 AM EDT
                      Patriotic American

                      You nailed it right on the head there LOR!

                      Too bad the masses of people are so stupid or medicated up that they will never do anything, even as they are kicked to the curb with their sleeping bags and two slices of bread to happily slave away for the forien controled Federal Reserve masters.

                      • 1 vote
                      #7.2 - Sun Aug 9, 2009 1:37 AM EDT
                      Reply
                      Tangiers

                      Money, get away.
                      Get a good job with good pay and youre okay.
                      Money, its a gas.
                      Grab that cash with both hands and make a stash.
                      New car, caviar, four star daydream,
                      Think Ill buy me a football team.

                      • 4 votes
                      Reply#8 - Fri Aug 7, 2009 11:07 AM EDT
                      Shane Ashton

                      Can we arrest Ben Bernacke for doing the same thing....creating money out of thin air and watering down the value of our currency??

                      In fact I'd say its even worse than a few teenagers, considering they're dealing with small amounts of thousands of dollars while Bennie is creating counterfeit currency at the TRILLION DOLLAR LEVEL....too bad we can't get the secret service to arrest him.

                      • 3 votes
                      Reply#9 - Fri Aug 7, 2009 11:19 AM EDT
                      CJ66

                      Shane, we already suggested that months ago. No one seems to take us very seriously, though. I think there were three we had suggested to be jailed, weren't there? Paulson was another one. Arrest them ALL, I say. Oh well.

                      It makes you stop and think about how hypocritical those rich folks are up at the top, and who THEY decide to throw in prison. Like Martha Stewart, or whoever.

                      I really wouldn't want to do it, after all, as it would undermine my whole theory concerning the reality of money. We just need a new system, and let the buggers go!

                      • 2 votes
                      #9.1 - Fri Aug 7, 2009 11:25 AM EDT
                      Shane Ashton

                      I'll just wait until the rioting in the streets starts when there is no gasoiline and food at the grocery store....then maybe they'll take us seriously.

                      • 5 votes
                      #9.2 - Fri Aug 7, 2009 11:34 AM EDT
                      Reply
                      Roland-320510

                      I do believe that counterfeit money does dilute the value of the "real" money in circulation and the counterfeiters end up getting more than what their money is really worth, whether they washed lower demonination bills or not.

                      I do wonder though how much does the federal government turning on its printing presses like there is no tomorrow dilute the value of the money that was out there before they turned on the presses?

                      • 1 vote
                      Reply#10 - Fri Aug 7, 2009 11:29 AM EDT
                      The Beev

                      Agreed. What is the diff between counterfiet money and all this monopoly money the gov is printing? Not one ounce of gold is backing it.

                      • 3 votes
                      Reply#11 - Fri Aug 7, 2009 11:36 AM EDT
                      s.heraclitus

                      All Money in circulation is Counterfeit!

                      The Right is Wrong!

                      The Left is Stupid!

                      The Center is En-Slaved!

                      • 4 votes
                      Reply#12 - Fri Aug 7, 2009 11:46 AM EDT
                      Just a Proud American

                      "Some bills have changed colors; portraits of the dead white men that grace them have been re-engraved and set off-center;"

                      portraits of the dead white men?

                      How disrespectful of our former presidents and founding fathers. I believe a formal apology, a correction in the article to read "portraits of our former presidents", and a reprimand is in order to this "reporter".

                      Unbelievable!

                      • 6 votes
                      Reply#13 - Fri Aug 7, 2009 11:58 AM EDT
                      CJ66

                      Oh, really, Proud American, our "founding fathers" weren't saints, you know. I do think it would be nice to have a picture of a person from some other ethnic group on a bill. How about a native American?

                      This whole problem will go away when they start implanting the (666) chips. No more money. :)

                      Are you ready for this?

                      • 2 votes
                      #13.1 - Fri Aug 7, 2009 12:15 PM EDT
                      JCurry

                      The msnbc writer's name is Alex Johnson. Just call him Alex "dead white men" Johnson.

                      • 2 votes
                      #13.2 - Fri Aug 7, 2009 12:53 PM EDT
                      Dragon Crest

                      Though it isn't a bill CJ66, last I checked Sacagawea was not only Native American but also a woman and she has her own dollar coin.

                      As part Native American myself I am proud of my country, so much so that her flag and bald eagle are permanently inked upon my arm. I also revere our forefather's, they risked their lives for what they believed in. They may not have been perfect and didn't take everything into consideration, but they did create the greatest country on the face of the planet. Imperfections and all, there is no other place I'd rather live.

                      Because I believe in the Freedom of Speech, however, I don't think anything should happen to Mr. Johnson, except perhaps his editor pointing out to him what his job actually is. It saddens me to see that the revered Fourth Estate now allows such bias to appear in non-editorial reporting. This should have been a story about counterfeit bills that simply stated the facts without insertion of what is arguably low-brow commentary. It is unfortunate because the article was well written and I was taken out of it by the unnecessary, unexpected, and unnecessary commentary.

                      "Dead White Men" indeed!

                        #13.3 - Sun Aug 9, 2009 10:28 AM EDT
                        Reply
                        DUDE-875416

                        The signs were pretty obvious: In the portrait, Benjamin Franklin’s name was misspelled as “Franken”; on the back, the motto read “In Dog We Trust.” And on the front was an easy-to-read note: “For motion picture use only.”

                        It was a Hollywood prop.

                        The shop’s manager said the employee was being retrained.

                        YOU THINK? That's Franken Funny!

                        • 4 votes
                        Reply#14 - Fri Aug 7, 2009 12:20 PM EDT
                        Shaka Zulu

                        What a stupid story, ever since we got off the gold standard, the US dollar as we know it is "funny money" at its best. Dont listen to the crooks coming up with terms like QE = quantitative easing aka running up a printing press. Whom do they think we are? Repeat after me, the US dollar is funny money and if washington doesnt change course, it wont even be worth the paper its printed on.

                        • 2 votes
                        Reply#15 - Fri Aug 7, 2009 12:21 PM EDT
                        CJ66

                        Shaka Zulu, I believe that money is already "not worth the paper it is printed on". Matter of fact, I am absolutely sure of it!

                        • 1 vote
                        #15.1 - Fri Aug 7, 2009 12:30 PM EDT
                        Reply
                        George-1262327

                        When it is counterfeit money created out of thin air, it is criminal. But when banks create money by giving out loans, it is legal. Not funny at all. It is tragic:

                        http://www.tradingstocks.net/html/banks_create_money.html

                        When banks create money, as they always do, everybody who holds money looses. Money looses it's value, as the US dollar lost 96% since the year 1900. When people pay back debt, which they have to, it causes deflation, and a cyclic bust. To avoid these booms and busts we need a stable money that works as a store of value. People should not need to get a PhD in finance to manage their retirement just because their savings are melting due to credit inflation. When you put the money under your pillow, it should keep it's value.

                        • 2 votes
                        Reply#16 - Fri Aug 7, 2009 12:21 PM EDT
                        CJ66

                        So spend your money NOW! While its still WORTH SOMETHING!

                        • 3 votes
                        #16.1 - Fri Aug 7, 2009 12:32 PM EDT
                        Jeff-397806

                        cj66....You haven't said much so far that I agree with but your "spend your money now while it is still worth something is an excellent suggestion."

                        Myself, I see hyperinflation and a complete collapse of the value of the dollar. After that repudiation of all US debt and a new currency. Of course no one will loan us any more money and our countries status will be less than a third worlds country but who cares? The ultra rich Americans will have changed their money to something like the Euro or gold bullion and will move out of the country. They will want to get away from the crime, lawlessness, and martial law that will be declared. Don't believe me? Well wait around for a few years and watch what happens.

                        • 3 votes
                        #16.2 - Fri Aug 7, 2009 8:26 PM EDT
                        Reply
                        interlink

                        Is $100 worth spending the rest of most of your life in a Federal Penitentiary? Idiots.

                        • 2 votes
                        Reply#17 - Fri Aug 7, 2009 12:34 PM EDT
                        jupmod

                        I'm like very surprise many people just do not bother to look at the watermark. When I first read about counterfitters bleaching lower value money and reprint the note into a higher value, my first thought was "Anyone, who looks at the watermark, can immediately tell whether it is a fake."

                        As the article stated, it only takes a few seconds to look at the watermark. Those detention pens do not work anymore these days.

                        • 3 votes
                        Reply#18 - Fri Aug 7, 2009 12:41 PM EDT
                        BigSky-905055

                        Things here in Florida are real bad. The law has already been finding fake $1 and $5 bills in the county I reside in.

                        • 1 vote
                        Reply#19 - Fri Aug 7, 2009 12:54 PM EDT
                        tigermania-1026265Deleted
                        tigermania-1026265Deleted
                        danger-D-775991

                        Whether it's printed at home or by the Fed, it's all just worthless fiat currency.

                        • 2 votes
                        Reply#22 - Fri Aug 7, 2009 1:03 PM EDT
                        nate-

                        i guess people figure, if the government can arbitrarily print money, then why can't they

                        • 2 votes
                        Reply#23 - Fri Aug 7, 2009 1:20 PM EDT
                        Paul B-1120948

                        CJ66 - congratulations! you have the same outlook that Obama has: pump some funny money into the economy to help it along. Here's the problem: funny money causes inflation. GET A BRAIN!!!

                        • 2 votes
                        Reply#24 - Fri Aug 7, 2009 1:48 PM EDT
                        Dana-1112506

                        Ok I do have an argument with what is reported. I was working as a cashier at a store a few years back. Woman came in right before close and grabbed a random .25 card. Yes twenty-five cents. Then placed a fifty dollar bill down to pay for it. When I checked for the water mark she demanded to see my manager. She decided there was something wrong with inspecting bills and I was a rascist. Yes she is/was african-american. Company policy was to check twenties and larger. Period. Result? I got fired and no one else at that store checked for forgeries again. Learned my lesson as well. You check your bills and that is it. You want to be let go in this economy?

                        • 2 votes
                        Reply#25 - Fri Aug 7, 2009 2:27 PM EDT
                        Tangiers

                        They fired you? wtf is wrong with them?

                        If that was company policy how could they pull that one on you Dana?

                        • 2 votes
                        #25.1 - Fri Aug 7, 2009 3:20 PM EDT
                        Reply
                        HeatherK-543251

                        Interesting. I mentioned this morning that I didn't think the phrase "dead white men" sounded like professional journalism here this morning. My post is gone.

                        • 3 votes
                        Reply#26 - Fri Aug 7, 2009 3:15 PM EDT
                        dexter-1102382

                        LOL, Chinese censors reside in the grapevine. Beware of the next knock on your door.

                        • 3 votes
                        #26.1 - Fri Aug 7, 2009 3:52 PM EDT
                        Reply
                        Doug-384925

                        The "funny money" were/are the toxic financial instruments which financial instruments were/are hold, buying and selling, and which Cox, Paulson, Greenspan, et al, thought were okay.

                        • 1 vote
                        Reply#27 - Fri Aug 7, 2009 4:47 PM EDT
                        Doug-384925

                        "which financial institutions were/are"

                          #27.1 - Fri Aug 7, 2009 5:47 PM EDT
                          Reply
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