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NBC poll: Doubts over Obama health plan

Tue Aug 18, 2009 6:30 PM EDT
health, obama, white-house, barack-obama, only-on-msnbc-com, poll, reform, nbc-news, percent, obamas, savannah-guthrie, chief-white-house-correspondent-chuck-todd, white-house�s
msnbc.com News — Mark Murray, msnbc.com - Only on msnbc.com
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— WASHINGTON - Two weeks since raucous congressional town-hall meetings on health care became a national story — and days after President Barack Obama began holding his own town halls — Americans remain skeptical about White House plans to overhaul the nation’s health system, according to a new NBC News poll.

A plurality believes Obama’s health plan would worsen the quality of health care, a result that is virtually unchanged from last month’s NBC/Wall Street Journal poll. What’s more, only four in 10 approve of the president’s handling of the issue, which also is unchanged from July.

And a majority — 54 percent — is more concerned that the government will go too far in reforming the nation’s health care system, while 41 percent is more worried that the reform will not do enough to lower costs and cover the uninsured.

“Things have not changed radically in the past two weeks,” says Democratic pollster Jay Campbell of Hart Research Associates, which conducted this survey with Republican pollster Bill McInturff of Public Opinion Strategies.

“But they have changed enough to illustrate an environment that has gotten tougher” for the White House, he says.

Damaging misperceptions
One of the reasons why it has become tougher is due to misperceptions about the president’s plans for reform.

Majorities in the poll believe the plans would give health insurance coverage to illegal immigrants; would lead to a government takeover of the health system; and would use taxpayer dollars to pay for women to have abortions — all claims that nonpartisan fact-checkers say are untrue about the legislation that has emerged so far from Congress.

Forty-five percent think the reform proposals would allow the government to make decisions about when to stop providing medical care for the elderly.

That also is untrue: The provision in the House legislation that critics have seized on — raising the specter of “death panels” or euthanasia — would simply allow Medicare to pay doctors for end-of-life counseling, if the patient wishes.

Obama, GOP approval
Obama’s overall approval rating in the poll is 51 percent, a two-point drop from last month and a 10-point decline since April.

Yet perhaps more troubling for the White House as it works to pass health care reform this year is that only 41 percent approve of his handling of health care. By comparison, 47 percent disapprove.

Moreover, just 36 percent believe that Obama’s efforts to reform the health system are a good idea, and only 24 percent think they will result in better quality of health care.

Bill McInturff, the GOP pollster who co-conducted the survey, says these numbers should signal a “cautionary light” for the White House. “There is a ‘go slower’ feel to this data.”

McInturff also observes that these numbers — which come after Obama embarked on a three-state swing (New Hampshire, Montana and Colorado) to hold town halls of his own — suggest that the White House’s counteroffensive was, “at best, break-even.”

But if the country is cautious about Obama’s health plans, it doesn’t seem to trust the Republican Party at all on the subject. Just 21 percent approve of the GOP’s handling of health care, versus 62 percent who disapprove.

Still, the country appears to be receptive to some type of health care reform. A combined 60 percent of respondents say the system needs either a “complete overhaul” or “major reform.” (Yet that combination has declined 10 points since April, and the percentage wanting a “complete overhaul” has dropped 12 points since that time.)

Also, while just 36 percent believe Obama’s efforts to reform the health system are a good idea, that number increases to 53 percent when respondents were read a paragraph describing Obama’s plans. (But that 53 percent is also a three-point drop since last month.)

On town-hall protests, the public option
This NBC poll was taken of 805 adults from Aug. 15-17, and has an overall margin of error of plus-minus 3.5 percentage points. It comes after protests have erupted across the country at congressional town-hall meetings on health care.

According to the survey, 16 percent say that what they have seen, read or heard about these protests have made them feel more favorable about Obama’s health plans. By contrast, 19 percent say the protests have made them feel less favorable, and 62 percent say they’ve made no difference.

In addition, 43 percent believe the protests have done more harm than good, versus a nearly identical 42 percent who say they’ve done more good than harm. Yet independents believe, by a 50-34 percent margin, that the protests have done more good.

The poll also comes after a new round of speculation over whether White House will drop its preference for a public/government option to compete against private health insurers.

In the poll, 43 percent say they favor a public option, versus 47 percent who oppose it. That's a shift from last month's NBC/Journal poll, when 46 percent said they backed it and 44 percent were opposed.

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pipercub-367550

It appears, from what I hear at work, that Americans are not trusting much of what Obama has done, since the economy and white house policies are not working well and in chaos. This does not help him 'sell' government handling of anything right now.

  • 53 votes
#1 - Tue Aug 18, 2009 7:32 PM EDT
American-344175Deleted
NBBSBC82

All the false information is coming from congress and the whitehouse. The citizens are reading the bill and DO NOT LIKE IT!!!! Period! obama can lie to the ignorant people who continue to drink the kool-aide, but the rest of us see him for what he is: a lying socialist looking to re-work the entire way this country is governed! That will not be allowed by the taxpayers!!!

  • 56 votes
#1.2 - Tue Aug 18, 2009 7:46 PM EDT
Dennis-956826

Obama has been a disappointment to most, a gentle let down for the wacko, a big flop for many liberals, but is doing just how conservatives thought he would do. The only thing worse than an Obama doing nothing is an Obama doing something. If he would even leave things alone they would get better than with him meddling with his Socialist fingers.

  • 45 votes
#1.3 - Tue Aug 18, 2009 7:48 PM EDT
Yankee Boy-1251460Expand Comment Comment collapsed by the community

WOW you republiscams really have a selective memory. Has there ever been a bigger coward or traitor than Bush and his boyfriend Cheney. (Don't worry Dick, you'll get another deferment.)

  • 15 votes
#1.4 - Tue Aug 18, 2009 7:50 PM EDT
JobSeeker

Yankee Boy,

How can we forget Bush? Obama is still fighting two wars. Gitmo is still open. The military still has don't ask, don't tell. Bailouts are still popular in the White House. Lobbying is still strong as ever in this administration. I don't recall the Patriot Act ever being cancelled. Actually, we are being monitored heavier than ever. Bush started the entitlement expansion with prescription drugs and Obama is intent on outdoing Bush. Oh, I almost forgot. Is Obama going to confront the gun issue? I doubt it. Now you know how conservatives feel about Bush. Obama is a DINO and you libs are still loving the man.

  • 31 votes
#1.5 - Tue Aug 18, 2009 7:57 PM EDT
DUDE-875416

I agree with everyone above except Yankee Boy. I'm not a republican! Geee that's a shocker! Another Bush comment? He hasn't been in office for over 6 months and Bush is STILL brought up. Get it through your liberal head, Bush isn't president anymore nor did he help write the climate or medical bills before us that are both a joke.

  • 45 votes
#1.6 - Tue Aug 18, 2009 8:03 PM EDT
Yankee Boy-1251460Expand Comment Comment collapsed by the community

Getting over Bush and the republiscams is like ignoring Dracula while you're bleeding to death.

  • 9 votes
#1.7 - Tue Aug 18, 2009 8:23 PM EDT
Dennis-956826

I just worry that there are too many Liberals out there like the head of the DNC, Howard "Snake in the Grass" Dean. I do not trust that worthless P.O.S. any farther than I can throw him. He is dead set on slipping the most liberal parts of the Universal Health Care Plan back in, any way that he can. Like Obama, he wants one payer, and personal option, to pass if nothing else. I can see him putting party pressure on all the Democrats to force this socialist bill through Congress. Any congressional representative or Senator that votes for this bill should be voted out in shame ASAP.

  • 26 votes
#1.8 - Tue Aug 18, 2009 8:25 PM EDT
juno-932501

This article should be careful what it calls "misperceptions." One of the bills did indeed come out of committee approximately two weeks ago with a 28-29 vote (two blue dogs voted for it) in FAVOR of granting illegal aliens coverage under the plan.

Watch what you are calling a "misperception" MSNBC--it is accurate to say that at least under one of the plans it did come out of conference giving these rights to aliens.

It is hard to know what misperceptions are since Obama has been as slippery as trying to nail jello to the wall as to what HIS plan is. There are several bills in the house and Senate and some are really Socialistic and very dangerous.

I liked the way the White House and House at first denied that there were "death squads" (Dr. Death's who could write a death order) provided for in the House Bill 3200 but too many put the exact page and paragraphs on the internet--hard to hide things like that today. Now they are saying that this unconscienable part will be simply removed from the bill (hard to do if it wasn't there in the first place).

  • 34 votes
#1.9 - Tue Aug 18, 2009 8:27 PM EDT
Last

Well, I certainly don't trust anything Obama says. He's changed his views to try to court voter approval every time the polls show he's not on the plus side of the equation. Then they do as they darned please and expect us to follow blindly. Aint Happin!

Just an observation but this columnist is sudden sporting a strange sort of title. What the heck is a "Deputy Political Director"? Sounds like someone kissing up to the Democrats to me!

  • 16 votes
#1.10 - Tue Aug 18, 2009 8:30 PM EDT
JobSeeker

Getting over Bush and the republiscams is like ignoring Dracula while you're bleeding to death.

Yankee,

Obama has had seven months to stop the bleeding. I think he likes seeing you bleed. Whatever happened to the remaining $708 trillion of shovel-ready jobs? It's that damn Bush again, isn't it?

  • 22 votes
#1.11 - Tue Aug 18, 2009 8:31 PM EDT
TexasrodeoqueenExpand Comment Comment collapsed by the community

Well, the Gang Of Propagandists and their fear and ignorance campaign are working overtime, aren't they?

yep, the same Gawdawful Obstructionist Party who almost destroyed the US Constitution and Bill of Rights using fear and ignorance during the Bush years are hard at work

I'm sure other nations more advanced than we are are laughing hard at how stupid and easily mislead Americans are. I'm sure our enemies love it as they leave us in the dirt and these Gawdawful Obstructionist Party members love their sickening and destructive influence.

  • 16 votes
#1.12 - Tue Aug 18, 2009 8:38 PM EDT
TexasrodeoqueenExpand Comment Comment collapsed by the community

Getting over Bush and the republiscams is like ignoring Dracula while you're bleeding to death

exactly- we are still hemorraging from all the Bush/Cheney/GOP majority neck bites

  • 14 votes
#1.13 - Tue Aug 18, 2009 8:44 PM EDT
dave20121

Everyone wants to focus on the alleged "misconceptions". It's the cost. It's the economy. It's the fact that the partial medical plan that the government currently runs (Medicare) is virtually bankrupt except for the excessive borrowing from China and the increasing national debt. There are so many ways to reduce healthcare costs without the government taking it over. The only thing that I agree with that is being proposed is that pre existing conditions should not preclude someone from obtaining a reasonably priced premium.

  • 15 votes
#1.14 - Tue Aug 18, 2009 8:44 PM EDT
Get Real...

Obama has offered no specifics on how he will handle many of the fundamental concerns with his proposal(s) - which he is now backing away from and calling Congress's ideas. This is where he CONTINUES to go wrong. Nothing is thought through...its all idealism and rhetoric. Now his substance is being tested and he is coming up hollow...into the blame game to save face:

  • unsolicited emails from the White House web site on health care - even though the White House attained the emails and committed to not use them, others non-government groups are at fault for using them - huh, how did they get them?
  • mis-information coming from others, well thats what happens when you leave a huge vacuum of solid information. A lot of the so called mis-information is extrapolation of the framework Obama laid out.
  • close Gitmo by the end of the year - but move them where? Ah yes lets spend more money and refurbish a US prison (not in my state!!!). Why spend the money - leave them where they are...
  • gotta have the stimulous bill ASAP or the economy will collapse - less that 20% of the money has actually made it out of the government, yet the economy is improving without it - why spend the rest and hurt the deficit?
  • we need Health Care Reform, errr you're right my idea is more like Health Insurance Reform so lets call it that - does nothing for the underlying cost problems, but the government can run it better!
  • "Sen McCane taxing health care beneifts is wrong - what a dumb idea" - hmmm now I think taxing health care benefits would be a smart way to fund my take over
  • 50M Americans need health care - dead wrong Mr President - illegal immigrants are NOT Americans!

Yikes and its only been 7 months...

  • 35 votes
#1.15 - Tue Aug 18, 2009 8:47 PM EDT
charles turner

well stated

  • 14 votes
#1.16 - Tue Aug 18, 2009 8:50 PM EDT
TruePatriot-445959

Apparently people are not following the news, or at least not following news other than FOX News. The economy is no longer in a tail spin. And considering how bad it was when the Republicans passed their mess on to Obama, I don't see how people could expect things to rebound over night.

Still, apparently people are wary because of all the "government" intervention. Okay, but why do people believe Corporate America is better or more trustworthy? Did they not hear about Enron on to the most recent Wall Street abuses? At least we elect government officials and can vote them out of office if we don't like what they do.

And in regard to health care, we know reform is needed. What do Republicans propose to do about pre-existing condition cherry picking, 42% increases in premiums, high deductibles, and claim refusals? Maybe if I type slow this will get through...co-ops will not change these things because there won't be enough participants or "scale." I already participate in a non-profit system and pre-existing conditions were waived for two years, with no prescription coverage ever.

Those who mistakenly believe government health care would be poor (or "evil"), you need to do some homework and look at other countries like the UK, or even programs here in the USA such as benefits enjoyed by government employees, the VA, and Medicare. And you know what? All those people out there on disability who are sucking the life out of Social Security will have to pay some kind of premium - Yeah!

And puleeze spare us the "fascist" comments. Fascism is a right-wing phenomenon, not a progressive, liberal one. Fascism is the way right-wing Republicans roll, dig?

  • 10 votes
#1.17 - Tue Aug 18, 2009 8:50 PM EDT
ROY WILSON-336103

“But if the country is cautious about Obama’s health plans, it doesn’t seem to trust the Republican Party at all on the subject. Just 21 percent approve of the GOP’s handling of health care, versus 62 percent who disapprove.”

I guess it's all in how you ask the question, since Rasmussen Reports posted this poll a few days ago;

"For the first time in over two years of polling, voters trust Republicans slightly more than Democrats on the handling of the issue of health care. The latest Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey shows that voters favor the GOP on the issue 44% to 41%.”

Since Rasmussen got the polling on the Presidential election exactly right last year, and NBC was way off, I'll go with Rasmussen.

  • 11 votes
#1.18 - Tue Aug 18, 2009 8:51 PM EDT
JobSeekerExpand Comment Comment collapsed by the community

I'm sure other nations more advanced than we are are laughing hard at how stupid and easily mislead Americans are.

RodeoSlut,

Venezuela, China, N Korea, Iran, Russia. Yeah, they are ALL laughing at the second coming of Jimmy Carter and our school-girl Secretary of State.

  • 10 votes
#1.19 - Tue Aug 18, 2009 8:55 PM EDT
choochoo-1167113

piperclub, do you work for the kkk?

  • 2 votes
#1.20 - Tue Aug 18, 2009 8:59 PM EDT
choochoo-1167113

NBBSCB, the right wing fanatics don't make up the entire taxpaying population. They constitute only a very small fraction of Americans.

  • 2 votes
#1.21 - Tue Aug 18, 2009 9:01 PM EDT
JobSeeker

choochoo,

I don't think Senator Byrd would allow a Republican into his club.

  • 3 votes
#1.22 - Tue Aug 18, 2009 9:03 PM EDT
Pittsburgh2

I know this doesn't go directly to reform, but I have to say that there was at least one good thing to come out of the February stimulus with respect to health benefits. My daughter recently was laid off (3 weeks ago). Before the stimulus passed, she would not have been able to afford COBRA coverage. What I failed to realize was that the government now picks up 65% of the premium on COBRA. (What woud have cost, for example, a family $1,000 or more a month, is now around $350). Point is, she's on her own and was a good employee, but didnt make a big salary, so this was a very big deal.

  • 6 votes
#1.23 - Tue Aug 18, 2009 9:04 PM EDT
Captain Marvelous

Massive medicare/medicaid fraud, illegals pouring across the border, skyrocketing unemployment, tax increases everywhere you turn....sure I'll turn my healthcare over to such a successfull government.

NObama in 2012.

  • 19 votes
#1.24 - Tue Aug 18, 2009 9:05 PM EDT
ROY WILSON-336103

"Majorities in the poll believe the plans would give health insurance coverage to illegal immigrants; would lead to a government takeover of the health system; and would use taxpayer dollars to pay for women to have abortions — all claims that nonpartisan fact-checkers say are untrue about the legislation that has emerged so far from Congress."

REALLY?

I understand that if illegal immigrants with an "anchor baby" do indeed qualify under the plan, as well as getting food stamps, medical, government subsidized housing, etc., etc., etc.

Also, the "public option" would be structured so it pays only a fraction of the "regular and customary medical charges", would be exempt from malpractice claims, and if anybody tried to change insurance companies, they would be forced to join, so they would end up forcing the insurance companies out of business. The "you can keep your insurance" is a farce.

And the "public option" does not have any wording excluding abortion coverage or even charging a higher premium for coverage, so abortions would hAVE to be paid for under the "public option".

Once again, NBC has distorted the truth, but then, since its parent company (General Electric Corp.) gets low interest loans from the government and lucrative contracts from the Obama Administration, we shouldn't be surprised that they don't do any REAL journalism.

  • 12 votes
#1.25 - Tue Aug 18, 2009 9:17 PM EDT
John-385319Deleted
NONEYA-382584

updated 2 hours, 40 minutes ago

I read this article after work and I seen a number that really bothered me. So, I came back to read it again and found that information to be gone. The update was really an edit by MSNBC. They took out the price tag it is going to cost for televised ads for the month of September, in order to promote government health care reform. Well that price tag is 150,000,000 million dollars. WOW, guess who is paying for that? American tax payers....This is what he spent last year in September for his campaign.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/politics/election2008/2008-10-29-poll_N.htm

Using donations for campaigns is one thing, using TAX DOLLARS is misappropriation.

  • 13 votes
#1.27 - Tue Aug 18, 2009 9:25 PM EDT
John-385319Deleted
DB Akron

House Democrats 258 - Republicans 178 Passage equals 51% or 218 votes maximum to pass anything. There is a 40 vote cushion - democrats don't need 1 Republican vote - so cram it down their throats - I DARE THEM!

Senate Democrats 60 - Republicans 40

Bill passes with 50 votes unless Biden falls off the program again.

But first the bill must pass the open debate clochere vote 60 - 40. Here, the Democrats now have enough provided Kennedy and Byrd are well enough to be present to vote.

The Republicans can do nothing to stop this, Really!

Here's the Problems.

HOUSE

120 House Democrats live in districts that clearly do not want a single payer/government option. If they vote for those two options, they will lose in 2010 for sure. Then there are 100 House Democrats who will refuse to vote for a bill without a single payer/government option. Expect this result - the single payer/government option will pass after the party leadership buys off enough Blue-dogs with money and / or campaign support in their districts.

SENATE

Currently, the bill is dead with a single payer/government option. Only 41 Democrats are willing to risk all to vote for it. The Senate version is said to have dropped any government insurance option and negotiations with Republicans are taking place to get enough window dressing done to get a few Republicans to join so debate will be closed.

Expect this Result. A much different plan will pass the Senate with 3 Republicans help.

The differences, will not be easily resolve - failure is probable, but with politicians, passing anything is possible if enough grease is applied to enough wheels!

There are 17 Democrat - 18 Republican seats up in for election in 2010. 12 Democrats 2 Republicans appear to have less than 50% of their Constituents votes meaning difficult re-election. 6 of those Democrats are behind their challengers only 2 Republicans are behind their challengers.

Outlook - politically, the best thing to do is dump this plan altogether. If the Democrats pass it, and they probably can, they will lose the House and possibly the Senate. Republicans are gaining the trust of the majority of people by opposing this bill. Poll after poll shows this.

  • 16 votes
#1.29 - Tue Aug 18, 2009 9:35 PM EDT
jeeesus

skepticism happens when things are so vague and up in the air..Americans need to know of facts and figures of what this is going to cost Americans..what about coverages ??? what about limitations..not enough information is passed onto the public..the Public does not want FINANCIAL SURPRISES to them..they are more pragmatic about their budgets, than Government is.. people cannot go out and tax their neighbor, like government does on a whim..this needs to be a practical issue, most people are not born with a silver spoon in their mouth.......

  • 3 votes
#1.30 - Tue Aug 18, 2009 9:49 PM EDT
infotogo

I hope you will investigate this yourself and not rely on the people at work. There are so many half truths being passed around. Do some research yourself. Factcheck.org is a good place to start.

  • 3 votes
#1.31 - Tue Aug 18, 2009 9:55 PM EDT
CBWY777Deleted
larry-292879

why is it we have a goverment if we cant trust it?

  • 3 votes
#1.33 - Tue Aug 18, 2009 10:01 PM EDT
Bill Reese

From what I have seen of the Town Hall meetings, the incumbent Democrats try to load up the meetings to show favor for the Obama plan or like Representative Wu, brought his team from Portland Oregon to take over the voice in St. Helens. It was a real farce and the people knew it. The anti-Government option was out numbered at least 5-1 from what I could see.

Our government should look at reducing the tax burden on health care or giving a tax credit of a set amount for the tax payer to look at different plans and check to see what plan he should spend it upon.

No to Illegals, period end of discussion.

Bill Reese

  • 6 votes
#1.34 - Tue Aug 18, 2009 10:09 PM EDT
CBWY777Deleted
sadiemae14

I agree. I am sick to death of the democrat congress and Obama and the liberal press telling me that I am too stupid to understand what they are trying to do. I understand perfectly what they are trying to do - that is grab all the power they can and institute a fascist government. Obama has and does scare the **** out of me. I'm glad others are starting to realize what he is not and what is is trying to do.

  • 14 votes
#1.36 - Tue Aug 18, 2009 10:24 PM EDT
Dave-787408

Rodeo has sobered up enough to start talking stupid again. Some people just ain't got no life.

  • 1 vote
#1.37 - Tue Aug 18, 2009 10:42 PM EDT
ladonna-1283636

From my viewpoint, I feel the economy has improved since President Obama has taken office. The stockmarket has stabilized. The banks have rebound. Our relations overseas have changed course. We never question how much money we spend overseas either in wartime or in helping other nations financially. When we have natural disasters, we do what needs to be done. Our health system is in crisis. Our middleclass is desperately in need of this reform. We need a public option in this plan. Please let us be more compassionate with Americans who do not and cannot afford the premiums that now exist with health insurance. Let's do for Americans who are in need. The ones caught in the middle - not poor enough for medical assistance and not rich enough to pay the expensive premiums.

  • 4 votes
#1.38 - Tue Aug 18, 2009 10:49 PM EDT
Richard Baxter

America has realized that Obama uses smoke and mirrors, half truths, and Chicago type arm twisting to try and get his programs through Congress. It will be a different story in Washington when the recess is over. We have a bunch of chicken little congressmen, who refused to hold town hall meetings, and only did phone call type town hall meetings. Like our own Rep John Tanner, refused to meet with the voters he works for, just wanted people to sign up to do a phone call town hall. Oh well...November 2010 will be here soon. Vote them all out of office. including the president in 2012.

  • 7 votes
#1.39 - Tue Aug 18, 2009 10:55 PM EDT
Mrkwildcat

Sadly, nothing will be done to stop this socialist administration. By the time 2012 arrives, it will be too late! Every one screams and says write your reps. Just wtf is that going to achieve? Have they listened to you up to this point? What makes you believe they will now? The only way we are going to stop this madness is to stop them right NOW!!! Our constitution demands that we protect our country from all enemies, foreign and domestic. If they are not enemies, what exactly are they? Your friends? Hitler was every ones friend at the beginning, what happened to Germany once he obtained full control? And all of you bleeding heart, mindless liberal sheep, read the HR 3200 bill! The facts are in black and white, yet you still refuse to believe your own eyes. You should be the first to be removed from this country!!! But alas, Heil Obama will soon become our nations pledge...Well, you can be dam* certain I will never raise my hand to this dictator, unless it is to show him my middle finger!

It is time to take our government back before it is too late!!!2010, they ALL must be removed!!!

  • 5 votes
#1.40 - Tue Aug 18, 2009 11:00 PM EDT
truthseeker-

"WHAT WE HAVE HERE IS A FAILURE TO COMMUNICATE" This happens when one has NO leadership ability, FAILS to give Congress any clear directions, and doesn't know what he is speaking about, but can sure BS the crowd.

If Obama really believed any of the rhetoric he spewed out during the campaign, things would be different.

I think we are throwing the baby out with the bath water.

  • 4 votes
#1.41 - Tue Aug 18, 2009 11:08 PM EDT
USAWolf

This is when the Liberal corruption machine is going to be it's most dangerous. The Liberals have had their agenda disrupted and more importantly their "feelings" hurt. For the better part of 6 months they inundated us with their "CRISIS" and "THE SKY IS FALLING" rhetoric. As a result they misguided even their own following into believing that the Bailout and Stimulus were going to somehow help WE THE PEOPLE. Now as the programs unfurl we all can see how totally inept this government is in evaluating, processing and trying to fix a "CRISIS".

Banks taking our tax dollars by the BILLIONS and TENS OF BILLIONS and laughing at the American citizen and businesses who need help, loans and credit NOW. But the banks continue to insult our intelligence with their HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS IN BONUSES. And our government is laughing too at WE THE PEOPLE. The Stimulus is such a blatant and ridiculous failure yet they will insist that somehow, somewhere and someday by the Grace of God it's helping, will help or could help WE THE PEOPLE!! Remember, it's going to SAVE or CREATE MILLIONS of jobs. Massive government waste in even getting the money out of Washington to the States. Mountains of good ole Washington bureaucracy paperwork stalling the money in the States from getting to the right people, WE THE PEOPLE. But hey, the government ranks are growing by leaps and bounds in D.C.!!!!

And now, here comes Health Care Reform, or wait, Health Insurance Reform, or wait, Health Care Cooperatives and if this doesn't brainwash the ignorant masses they'll come up with Health Care Derivatives. Hey, look how well that worked for the mortgage industry. And the best part of all this "REFORM" is that NO ONE has a clue as to what they wrote in this legislation. None who wrote the multiple Bills out there in D.C. Fairy Land have a clue what's in it or better yet how to explain it to WE THE PEOPLE. Obama saying one thing, Sebelius saying something different, Howard Dean babbling that health care can't be fixed without a public option and Gibbs trying to cover all the lies and deceptions coming out to WE THE PEOPLE. Obama claims the AARP is behind his program yet 60,000 senior citizens have severed ties with the AARP since July. Obviously this MUST be an indication that the plans are for WE THE PEOPLE. And Obama's BEST analogy of how the government can improve your health care is by comparing the well run "PRIVATE SECTOR" UPS and FedEx against the abomination known as The United States Postal Service!!!!!

And we're supposed to just sit back ignorantly and let this out of control, massive spending, soon to be massive taxing, confused, incompetent government to tell us what is best for WE THE PEOPLE!!!!!!!

We MUST maintain our vigilance. We must continue to question the true intentions of this government for all their programs from now on. The reason for this is simple.

WE ARE "WE THE PEOPLE"!

  • 6 votes
#1.42 - Tue Aug 18, 2009 11:45 PM EDT
aja2007

"I'm sure other nations more advanced than we are are laughing hard at how stupid and easily mislead Americans are"

Yes, from what I hear, that's how they felt when we Elected Obama.

  • 9 votes
#1.43 - Tue Aug 18, 2009 11:47 PM EDT
Mac-329110

Even if the proposals are exactly as Obama says the Feds should not be allowed to take over any portion of health care as proposed in these bills. The Feds do not know how to limit their involvement in anything they only know how to grab for ever increasing control of whatever they are involved in. Hence these voluntary advisory visits on end of life care will become mandantory visits that will decide when to "pull the plug" or in other words death squads.

  • 5 votes
#1.44 - Tue Aug 18, 2009 11:54 PM EDT
larzwoody

Misperceptions!! The only misperception here is that we need a public health care program. The American public is speaking very loud and very clear...we don't want this kind of reform. We don't want big government, we don't want government in our lives, we don't want government managing a program when they can't manage the programs we already have, we don't want higher taxes, we don't want multi-trillion debt, we don't want another Czar...the ones we have do nothing and we don't want to fund health insurance for illegals. The system we have needs some work...like insurance reform and there's no question the poor need insurance. Let's make the system we have work. It works for the majority of us now; why do we continue to try and create another program that already has failure written all over it?.

  • 5 votes
#1.45 - Wed Aug 19, 2009 12:08 AM EDT
ROY WILSON-336103

Here's a way to "save" $400 Billion over the next 10 years, half of the "savings" Congress is looking for.

It's called TORT REFORM.

But don't hold your breath, because the Trial Lawyers groups OWN the Democratic Party.

  • 8 votes
#1.46 - Wed Aug 19, 2009 1:05 AM EDT
Steelman-495358

The Holy Grail for the liberal Democrats is government control of the healthcare system. They are hell-bent to have it and the fight is on as long as they are in power. They won't stop pushing for it and the way we stop it is to vote these morons out asap and be vigilant as long as they are in office - watch their every move! It is their ultimate goal and they don't care how much it costs the taxpayers nor do they care what the results will be regarding quality of care or cost. Simply put, they really don't want healthcare reform - they want government control of healthcare! They just try and hide their real agenda under the pretense that it is about healthcare reform. Their idea of a non-profit co-op is no different than a public plan - it's still all about government control and getting a foothold in order to incrementally take out the privatization of health insurance in order to attain their ultimate goal - a one payor system. Be suspicious and be aware of any alternatives that these liberal, anti-constitutionalist socialists are willing to accept! It's more than likely to be the "same old whore, just wearing a different kimona"! They obviously can't be trusted and that should be evident to every core American since they have already tried to fast track this piece of ultra-expensive socialist crap legislation past "We The People", under the radar, back in July. Where is the fiscal responsibility of these morons?

Rahm (twinkle-toes) Emanuel, the Poster Boy for Little Man Syndrome, has said something to the effect that the "goal" (a one-payor healthcare system) is not negotiable but the way to get there is. Others, including Obama are on record for expressing their goal to have a one-payor system. Obama, his Chicago ass-wipe thugs, and his liberal arrogant Democratic controlled congressional drones are more than determined and willing to socialize our healthcare. Don't believe the rhetoric but do believe their actions.

This fight for our constitutional liberties and our demand for fiscal responsibility is not just a Republican issue. "We The People" is all core Americans (Republicans, Democrats, Independents and those with no party preference). Most of us believe in the need to have justifiable and responsible healthcare reform provided it is cost effective. Tort Reform will be the first pre-requisite to talking further about meaningful healthcare reform otherwise forget it. Furthermore, we believe that the private delivery system of healthcare is the most logical, efficient and cost-effective way to enact proper healthcare reform and it offers continued preservation of the 6th largest sector of the American economy. We believe that any form of government competition is a serious threat to the private sector. We are adamantly opposed to any form of government healthcare takeover, expansion of government and increased taxes that will certainly follow a re-creation of government healthcare.

  • 4 votes
#1.47 - Wed Aug 19, 2009 1:54 AM EDT
Steelman-495358

Roy Wilson - Great Post! Problem is you make too much common sense! These guys don't want healthcare reform otherwise Tort Reform would be top of the list for SERIOUS healthcare reform. If they're not willing to do that, then they need to quit talking about reform. Blame insurance companies and not blame the lawyers? What's wrong with this picture?

  • 7 votes
#1.48 - Wed Aug 19, 2009 2:00 AM EDT
hmoore

The republicans got Bush elected on Tort Reform and they did NOTHING about it. They did nothing about our energy problems, Oh... They decided to take over a country in the Middle East. Exon will make another $40 billion this year enriching people killing American Soldiers.

You little mice keep following a group of rich fools taking this country for a ride.

  • 1 vote
#1.49 - Wed Aug 19, 2009 2:34 AM EDT
idaho fan

Lets quit the whineing and get on with getting health care for the millions that are not covered. Face it the uninsured people cost the rest of us milliions, as they can not be turned away from hospitals. We pay one way or the other.

  • 1 vote
#1.50 - Wed Aug 19, 2009 2:38 AM EDT
LA Cop..

If the NBC poll doubts BHO's numbers, they must be REALLY bad, or worse then they are willing to post. By reading the posts on this MSNBC site, it looks like about 10 to1 against this atrocious bill. BHO is doing his very best to bankrupt the USA before his 1st year in office.

BTW, the libs have had control over the congress/senate for over 2 years now and haven't fixed a DAMN thing.

  • 8 votes
#1.51 - Wed Aug 19, 2009 2:49 AM EDT
pddoc

The new Republican party, birthers, death panels, and gun carrying protestors...are they all looney?

  • 2 votes
#1.52 - Wed Aug 19, 2009 3:12 AM EDT
Steven from Iowa

"Majorities in the poll believe the plans would give health insurance coverage to illegal immigrants;"

It WILL because the safe guard i.e the HELLER AMENDMENT was defeated by the DEMOCRATS!!

The way the bill is written an ILLEGAL can get free health care because no one is allowed to ask them to VERIFY who they are.

Kind of like having free beer night at the local bar and posting a sign saying people younger than 21 can't drink, but if you're not carding them at the door or CHECKING to make sure they are LEGAL the bar will soon be full of 18 year olds and even younger all drinking FREE BEER!

  • 3 votes
#1.53 - Wed Aug 19, 2009 5:19 AM EDT
Fred Bastiat

Obama's problem is that he cannot explain how he is going to pay for this trillion dollar monstrosity. Obama's plan is to GIVE health insurance to millions and make the rest of the country pay for it.

Liberals always want something for nothing. They expect high income earners to pay all of the bills. Obama and liberals talk about "evil" rich people but they on them to pay all the bills. WHAT WOULD HE DO WITHOUT THESE EVIL RICH PEOPLE? THEY ARE LIKE ATLAS HOLDING UP THE WORLD.

The wealthy are not stupid. If you raise taxes on them, they will just quit working, hide their income or defer it. Remember, they are wealthy and don't have to work. They can quit and sit on their butt any time they want to. Then you will have a friggin mess on your hands because there will be no one left to pay the bills. The only other way to pay for it is to cut Medicare benefits. The elderly are rightly concerned about this issue.

The truth is that the wealthy have not made much money in the past couple of years. Tax revenues plummeted this year. The US Govt. ran out of money in April. We have been on the credit card since then. Guess what. Someone has to pay the bill. Who is that going to be? The wealthy have lost billions since last year. Look at the price of Microsoft stock, Berkshire stock, and a thousand others.

Those losses will be carried forward for years by the wealthy, and I predict that tax revenue from the wealthy will be in decline for years to come. Also, it is a statistical fact that: 1. Tax revenue falls when you raise taxes. Even Obama has admitted this, and 2. When the total tax burden on an individual goes over 50%, people just say forget, how stupid do you think I am, I am not working any more.

There are a lot of folks who WILL REFUSE TO WORK if the money is just going to be stolen from them and given to Obama so he can redistribute it to his friends and voters. If enough people feel the same way, this stupidness will bankrupt the country. People better wake up before it's too late.

P.S. If you are working but not paying much, if any, in Federal income tax, don't feel bad for not contributing. YOU WILL VERY SOON HAVE YOUR CHANCE BECAUSE YOUR TAXES ARE GOING THROUGH THE ROOF!!!!!!!!!

  • 5 votes
#1.54 - Wed Aug 19, 2009 6:46 AM EDT
Alykatma

It is amazing how gullible people are. But if you look at the numbers, people trust republicans even less, 21% approval on healthcare issue. To me that is the really telling number. Why anyone would trust any lies coming from Republicans is beyond me... Deathsquads myth, illegal alien coverage myth, abortion covered myth (There already is a law against that... the Hyde amendment) and then throwing around words like socialism and nazism as if they know what they are talking about. As far as taxes increasing... this is health insurance, people will pay a premium... people who cant afford ever increasing premiums or are excluded for pre-existing premiums will be able to get a government option, which should be a lot cheaper than if they go bankrupt and leave huge medical debts or wipe out thier savings of a lifetime. Health insurance costs have increased over 400% in last 8 years, with most of that going to CEO's and stockholders. Like any business, they make more money by denying claims and life saving treatments. And dont get me started on Pharmaceutical companies, also making record profits thanks to Bush's medicaire giveaways.

  • 1 vote
#1.55 - Wed Aug 19, 2009 8:32 AM EDT
Black KnightDeleted
from around the block

Oh paleeezzz Black Knight. These blogs are filled with vile, vitriolic rhetoric against President Obama and the democratic party. No one can do it like the neocon, right wing lugnuts. You people have no shame. You will spin and lie with no moral concern.

Talk about the pot calling the kettle black.

    #1.57 - Wed Aug 19, 2009 1:47 PM EDT
    Phxflyer

    American, then explain why five of the six states facing the most financial trouble are red states.

      #1.58 - Wed Aug 19, 2009 2:05 PM EDT
      tyler

      RodeoSlut,

      Cut it out, JobSeeker. You're suspended for a day for violating #1 of the Code of Honor.

      Has there ever been a bigger coward or traitor than Bush and his boyfriend Cheney. (Don't worry Dick, you'll get another deferment.)

      Yankee Boy-1251460, quit derailing about Bush. If you want to discuss him, go here.

      • 4 votes
      #1.59 - Wed Aug 19, 2009 4:12 PM EDT
      Yankee Boy-1251460

      @!$%# you and @!$%# newsvine. You're suspended permanently. (What a Nazi.)

        #1.60 - Wed Aug 19, 2009 10:45 PM EDT
        truthseeker-

        Obama's real plan is to DESTROY the economy, the government, capitalism and trust in this country. At this he is good, everything else he is just an elite snob. And then there is his wife?

        • 2 votes
        #1.61 - Thu Aug 20, 2009 12:12 AM EDT
        Teri-295467

        NOT So! Many of us out there DO Trust Obama, and Especially after (8) years of the Repubs...How in Hell can anybody trust what the Republicons say?!! All the outright Lies and Fabrications from the Repubs And the Conservatives. Their Lies haven't Stopped... it's been Ongoing during and after the campaign!! It boggles my mind How Ignorant do many people are.... and they beleive the first BS that comes out of the Right-Wings Mouth!! Serving up exaggerations, Lies, and misconceptions to the public as did Palin, Boehner, Rush, and Beck, is "Evil". These people don't give a damn if the average working family can no longer afford health care or the benefits have been minimized, that should they find themselves coping with a serious illness, they will be left to die!! It's just another way for the Self Serving Right-wing to Screw the middle class!

          #1.62 - Thu Aug 20, 2009 4:33 AM EDT
          Mike-501780

          Government run health care is, amazingly, run by our government. It is destined to fail, just on that fact alone.

          They have botched Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, the "bailout" (who they bailed out still eludes me), and even the "cash for cars" program. I don't know how many other programs have gone up in smoke or down in flames, but their track record isn't very good. Private enterprise is the best way to run programs or businesses, but the crooks need to be held accountable in order to insure that we don't get fleeced.

          That has been the major issue with all of the bank and financial failures. The rules that are in place are not enforced. Of course, that's a bigger problem that the health care issue at hand. Who is going to control the greedy bastards?

          • 1 vote
          #1.63 - Thu Aug 20, 2009 8:02 AM EDT
          DUDE-875416

          I find it interesting that TORT reform has been resisted for years by the Democrats. Now they want TORT reform. Why? Because if they are successful in getting a single payer system, they don't want to be sued taking their precious monies away from them to spend on earmarks. TORT reform is needed badly no matter what medical insurance is provided. The question will be, what kind of TORT reform is Congress considering?

          • 2 votes
          #1.64 - Thu Aug 20, 2009 11:49 AM EDT
          CBWY777Deleted
          raisin obama

          we-weed up? Did he say we-weed up? I heard it, but I didn't believe it.

          Obama sneaking a smoke again? What kind of smoke? No wonder it is one bad decision after another. The dude is all smoked up. I bet he gets good stuff at the Whitehouse. Shades of Bill Clinton!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

          Now he is going to sneak the gitmo terrorists into Michigan. Shades of Scotland! Who side are these people on? Clinton, the Sec. of State one, showed how useless and weak she is, she couldn't stop Scotland from releasing a mass murderer. No wonder they are called dumbocrats.

          Now the dumbocrats are blaming the repubs for the health care meltdown, when it is their own bluedogs blocking legislation. What hypocrites!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

          I think the dumbocrats need to go it alone, cram it down our throats. Only problem is, they won't have anyone to blame but themselves, they need some token repubs, so they can diffuse the blame when it all goes bad and falls apart.

          Note I said WHEN it all goes bad, not if. Have you ever seen a government run program that wasn't a farce, or full of waste and fraud? HOW IS THIS GOING TO SAVE HEALTH CARE? Even the GAO says it will not. HOW CAN THESE SHEEPLE BE SO BLIND?

          All we have done is trade an elephant for a jackass, this guy is worse than Jimmy Carter. The "blinders" have elected the worst president in history, and a lawyer at that. No chance for tort reform, now he is paying off Soro's with drilling off of Brazil, WTF?

          The "blinders" were duped with a fancy slogan, drank the kool aid, and blindly followed.

          OMG, that's right, it's still Bush's and Cheney's fault!!!!!!!!!!!

          Boy is that line and blaming the repubs wearing out, what will they do when it is completely worn out? Blame themselves, I doubt it, they are looking for another scapegoat. Keep your head down, next it will be us posters.

          Time to vote every incumbent out = term limits.

          Larry, we have a federal government because it is a necessary evil, the key is to keep it small and constrained. The "blinders" let the cat out of the bag. The farther government gets away from your local home town, the more corrupt and abusive of power it is. Washington is living proof.

          • 2 votes
          #1.66 - Fri Aug 21, 2009 2:55 AM EDT
          Reply
          Henry B-338755Expand Comment Comment collapsed by the community

          Anthony Weiner articulated the issue in an excellent dabate in Morning Joe.

          What is the Insurance Industry bringing to the table? Zilch, zero, nada.

          They are the middleman, the brokers. You pay one dollar to them, they pay 30 cents to your doctor and the rest goes in paying their CEO's and waste such as $56 million ad campaign, $1million dollar a day lobbyist etc.

          Obama's plan will eliminate the middleman. Health care is a right, same as public education. We bust our arces to make the country great, we deserve better than a bunch of gluttons sucking our blood for nothing.

          • 14 votes
          #2 - Tue Aug 18, 2009 7:36 PM EDT
          Wisconsin Bob

          Consult your constitution. Healthcare is NOT a right and I should not have to pay for someone else's. No one has paid for mine. Get a J-O-B and get it ocvered for yourself not with my tax dollars.

          • 29 votes
          #2.1 - Tue Aug 18, 2009 7:38 PM EDT
          Leslie1Deleted
          JOHN-332555

          Show me where it is a right, get a job and get off the dole......

          • 17 votes
          #2.3 - Tue Aug 18, 2009 7:43 PM EDT
          star555

          I hate to tell you John, not all employers have health care coverage, not all employers pay enough to be able to afford Health Care. I am single and have always paid my own way. I am also sick of paying for everyones insurance, especially the people that use it to excess. Like people with more than 2 children. I also have to pay for all these children of irresponsible parents, to get their educations free. People need to show me that they are trying to help themselves. If someone can't afford education, healthcare, as well as food, clothing and shelter for their families then why should I. I however, do believe we should have national health for all U.S. citizens, without force.

            #2.4 - Tue Aug 18, 2009 7:52 PM EDT
            Econ101-1172500

            Healthcare is not a right neither is social sucurity, medcare and medicaid. None of these programs should have ever been put in place. It has created a crutch for americans to be irresponsible, wasteful, never save money or work hard. We are creating a generation of weak dependents who cannot compete in the world economic theatre.

            Obama and his comicare are about control and votes not health coverage. The democrats fully intend to cover illegal aliens for their votes. They will add them to the bill later out of "compasion" and take money away from retiries who paid into the system. Our country is out of money, health care will be rationed and the death panel will necessarily become part of the program due to a lack of funds.

            • 12 votes
            #2.5 - Tue Aug 18, 2009 8:02 PM EDT
            jpfs52

            There is no plan. If you think there is your mistaken. This is all designed to keep us confused, angry and polarized while the people who are really in charged design our future.

            • 6 votes
            #2.6 - Tue Aug 18, 2009 8:09 PM EDT
            Lonny-1076921

            What baloney! Ignorant self centered right wing B/S

            Freedom of speech, religion, assembly etc etc etc were not "rights" until our founders proclaimed them and the states affirmed them. If Americans can declare that every criminal in the country has a right to attorney, then Americans can and should declare that every American who needs a Doctor should have one!

            Health care can and should be an inalienable right and In America we have the power and the precedent to make it so. It is simply a question of political will.

            • 8 votes
            #2.7 - Tue Aug 18, 2009 8:12 PM EDT
            Wisconsin Bob

            Lonny - nice try. The majority says no! Therefore no right will be granted. Sorry buddy YOU LOSE. Get used to it. Just like you say to all the McCain supporters - you lose, we win, get used to it.

            • 14 votes
            #2.8 - Tue Aug 18, 2009 8:25 PM EDT
            usmcvet5711

            Lonny if you want to make it a right then go ahead and support all of the lazy people that will be sucking off of the system. Healthcare, education jobs none of these are rights. The Bill of Rights grants us Life Liberty and the pursuit of happiness but nowhere does it say that they will be given to us. I say stop all entitlement programs all together. It used to be that when people retired they had saved for it and paid off all of their bills or failing that moved in with their kids. In even older times when the parents and older population got too old to contribute then the family and society took care of them but mainly their own family. These days the concept of family and family values have fallen so far that our American families do not support each other like they should. So instead of the Washington idiots pushing neew entitlement programs that are just going to bankrupt America how about promoting programs to get back to the American values that made us great. Values like family, hard work brings rewards, personal responsibility, dont look to anybody else to help you, and all of those values that made America powerful and prosperous.

            I have a right for the government to get the heck out of my pocket and quit regulating my life to make it harder to get by but I dont see the Dems pushing that agenda.

            • 11 votes
            #2.9 - Tue Aug 18, 2009 8:28 PM EDT
            dave20121

            Lonny, It sure would be nice for everyone to have healthcare. Why stop there? How about we provide everyone with free college education? Let us not forget a government backed pension...Oh, that would be so nice. AT WHAT COST?

            • 7 votes
            #2.10 - Tue Aug 18, 2009 8:33 PM EDT
            FedUp-1094255

            i have a job and have worked full-time consistently for the past 25 years. i pay my bills, my taxes, and all my own expenses. i have never ever been "on the dole." i have no (nada, none) outstanding credit bills, nor do i live on credit. i am the support supporter of myself and make my boss plenty of money. i have no health insurance, yet my friend, who has the exact same job and makes the same money as i do, has health insurance. Is my life worth less just because i work for a small business that isn't required to carry insurance? Apparently we can support the business owners while the employees can go off and die. Regardless, in return for your "compassion," i wish you the following: that you (1) lose your job; and (2) lose your health benefits; then (3) you discover you have cancer on that very day, right after getting hit by a truck on your way home, to the house you will soon lose because you have no income and can't find a job in time to keep from getting foreclosed. then you can get all your treatment (what they'll bother with since you have no "right" to treatment) on credit and have to file bankruptcy, further reducing your dignity and "upping" your hypocrisy tenfold. then, while you're sitting on the curb with your cart and your bald head and empty stomach, people will throw things at you and tell you to "go get a job and get off the dole."

            • 8 votes
            #2.11 - Tue Aug 18, 2009 8:35 PM EDT
            Texasrodeoqueen

            The Gawdawful Obstructionist Party want their illegal wars, unitary executive and Government Of Propaganda back, don't they?

            They will destroy us

            They will do ANYTHING subsersive or immoral to get the Greed Over People party back in there.

            Parents, don't let your kids watch TV or listen to the radio, they are cranking out every kind of propaganda known to mankind and have already been caught using subliminal brainwashing. That's got to be it! The brainwashing of the ignorant and frail.

            • 3 votes
            #2.12 - Tue Aug 18, 2009 8:40 PM EDT
            Get Real...

            Henry B:

            Obama's plan will eliminate the middleman. Health care is a right, same as public education. We bust our arces to make the country great, we deserve better than a bunch of gluttons sucking our blood for nothing.

            Eliminate the middleman? Are you serious? The government will take in $1 and pay out 5 cents... There is absolutely no data, experience, proof point, or argument that the government would be a more efficient middleman. And yes the government would be a middleman (already are for Medicare/Medicaid). The government adds no value to the US economy...government bureaucrats do not add to the GDP.

            Amazing line of thinking that the government would be more efficient than the private sector. How is a government managed insurance process going to eliminate the underlying health care costs? They haven't done a good job so far. Remember they are the largest buyer of health care services today with Medicare and Medicaid. They simple refuse to pay for services and guess who ends up paying those costs - you and me...you can just squeeze costs like a balloon, you have get to the underlying root causes of high costs... Think it through - Obama hasn't...

            One of the biggest challenges that Obama and the Dems have refused to discuss is tourte reform... Yes insurance companies pick up the tab for these law suits. The only ones coming out rich in the process are the lawyers - all buddies of your local Congressman and President.

            • 7 votes
            #2.13 - Tue Aug 18, 2009 8:59 PM EDT
            Leslie1Deleted
            Captain Marvelous

            I spent 2 hours on the web looking for Obama's healthcare plan, I couldn't find it anywhere. I did find references to 5 different bills in congress but nothing that could be identified as Obama's. Could he be lying to the american people? hmmmm....that would be so unlike a Democrat to lie.

            NObama in 2012.

            • 7 votes
            #2.15 - Tue Aug 18, 2009 9:12 PM EDT
            UnoSolei

            texasrodeoqueen

            Just what rodeo are you queen over?

            • 5 votes
            #2.16 - Tue Aug 18, 2009 9:24 PM EDT
            John-385319Deleted
            DB Akron

            Henry,

            Afraid to break the news to you.

            Health Insurance Companies return 85 cents of every dollar to pay medical bills. The government returns 78 cents of every tax dollar in services. Actual Health industry profit in 2006 was $13 Billion on nearly $2.75 Trillion in premiums (there were $2.4 Trillon paid medical costs. In laymans terms that is $1.00 out of every $211 in premiums. Administrative and advertising costs were $337 Billion or about $14.00 out of every $100.

            Health Insurance is a service to your employer done to get the real profits in insurance which are Life, Auto, Home, and Business. Insurance companies do hold costs down, because they negotiate lower prices than doctors and hospital bills want for services. Actually read the informational statement your health insurance company sends you. Would you really want to pay the pre-negotiated amount?

            • 2 votes
            #2.18 - Tue Aug 18, 2009 10:03 PM EDT
            choochoo-1167113

            Econ101, it is not true that "illegal immigrants will be provided health care insurance." That's a lie made up by the dummies who are trying to make our president fail.

            • 1 vote
            #2.19 - Tue Aug 18, 2009 10:19 PM EDT
            DB Akron

            Choo Choo again, not exactly,

            Illegals are not directly addressed in the original bill, but some language left that open to be possible. What is directly referenced is the mandatory inclusion of the Indian tribes and non-US citizens of all US protectorates. They all are required to join the program at the US citizen's expense!

            There are a number of other funny descriptions that are deliberately placed in there that really out to be stated directly what is meant. The death panels was one of them, the original language was not only the doctors but also other groups.

            • 3 votes
            #2.20 - Tue Aug 18, 2009 10:38 PM EDT
            Dave-787408

            Eliminate the middleman and choice. Health care a right my democrat symbol. Lazy welfare hogs will get cut off from the trough when Obamas plan gets rolling. Liberal leeches will be the first to suffer and possibly die cause they been sucking off the gov't for so long they know nothing about standing on their own feet. The only satisfaction I'll get from getting screwed is it's gonna hurt them leeches worse. You get what you vote for.

            • 4 votes
            #2.21 - Tue Aug 18, 2009 10:50 PM EDT
            toastee

            OMG... I just had a vivid memory...

            No joke.. Before God-bama got elected I kept getting emails (unsolicited) from The Service industry Unions in my email. A email I use from this site. I remember arguing with them (which the never replied of course) with their stupid newsletters.

            I finally unsubcribed.. all this time believing this to be a stupid liberal organization. Now that I know that the White house is doing the same thing. I am surprised they seemed to use this tactic before God-bama was elected.

            frightening.. Bush and his wiretaps never effected me..how long have liberals been watching us.

            • 2 votes
            #2.22 - Tue Aug 18, 2009 11:02 PM EDT
            truthseeker-

            Henry B, you are spouting obamastuffings. Insurance companies pay out 65% of premiums in medical costs, the remaining 35% goes for everything else, including law suits. This is much better utilization of the policyholders money than we as taxpayers get for our tax dollars which pay for many junkets and pork by and for the elected officials.

            • 4 votes
            #2.23 - Tue Aug 18, 2009 11:13 PM EDT
            QuinnWard

            Health care is a right, same as public education.

            If healthcare is a "right" then why don't the congressional morons just make health insurance 100% tax deductible and be done with it? Public educations is a "right"? So you have a right to take money out of my pocket, I'm single with NO dependents(except for 3 dogs, a cat, a ferret and some chickens)and yet I am forced to pay for other people's children. I didn't have those children but I get to pay for them, against my will. Here's a clue, you had your children YOU pay for them.

            • 3 votes
            #2.24 - Wed Aug 19, 2009 12:16 AM EDT
            reason84

            There's no such thing as 'rights'...just privileges. And none of them are 'god-given', if they were god must have had an 'off day' creating the original 10 since 17 additional ones had to be added since ;)

              #2.25 - Wed Aug 19, 2009 2:55 AM EDT
              Boudicea

              Brokers don't get 30%. It's more like 3%

              • 2 votes
              #2.26 - Wed Aug 19, 2009 10:55 AM EDT
              Miron-373675Deleted
              Reply
              Wisconsin Bob

              Congress needs to drop the topic, focus on tort reform (to actually drop the cost of mal practice insurance and therefore the service associated) and allow real competition. With those two things done, the price will drop in half. If it is still unaffordable, we can then decide what to do about it. By then the economy will have recovered and we can talk intelligently about what shoudl be done. Right now we have bigger problemss to addres and many more problems we can all agree on.

              BO - stop your agenda and get to work on ours.

              • 13 votes
              Reply#3 - Tue Aug 18, 2009 7:36 PM EDT
              elchiparoso

              Wisconsin Bob, what are you talking about. Here in Florida there are many doctors that do not carry malpractice insurance, yet the have not lowered their fees. When have you heard of a business not trying to increase its profits by cutting operating cost. If you are employed and your employer pays for your health insurance, do not be surprised if some day he/she will come in as say that the business will no longer pay the employees health insurance. This can happen and it has happened. Their is no law that requires an employer to pay the employees health insurance.

              There appears to be a believe in lots of people's mind that the employer is obligated to pay or subsidize your health care insurance. Take that idea, completely out of your head. The company you work for can at any time cut its operating expenses of paying for health insurance and leave you in the cold. If the company has a union agreement, it can get out of that agreement by filing for bankruptcy. Open your eyes and be informed.

              • 2 votes
              #3.1 - Tue Aug 18, 2009 9:47 PM EDT
              choochoo-1167113

              Wisconsin Bob: "real competition", as you have called it, has already been tried. Can't you see where it has gotten us? Let me remind that there are 47 million people in this country without any health care insurance at all. There are millions who have gone bankrupt as the result of long term illness or serious accicents. Try turning off the right wing extremeists like Limbaush and start getting educated.

              • 1 vote
              #3.2 - Tue Aug 18, 2009 9:53 PM EDT
              larry-292879

              wow stop tort! The republicans are comming from everywhere so whats up?why are the republicans so against this? I would guess its just a way to try and get obama and weaken him.Republicans are a bunch of sick people....they talk about abortion like it gets them to heaven....save the babies,but let the children die who cares..they should have had insurance

              • 2 votes
              #3.3 - Tue Aug 18, 2009 10:12 PM EDT
              DB Akron

              Choo Choo

              8 million don't want health insurance! I once was in that class. Being Single and healthy, insurance other than emergency is not necessary.

              The unemployed are included in that number. The loss of health is normally but not always temporary until new employment with is found in 2 - 4 months. Cobra was supposed to fill this, but former employers are not required to pay their share to those left go. Been there myself. This won't happen again, because I have my own individual policy now. Many employers will give you the amount in additional pay that they would have paid for your potion of health insurance - mine did!

              Portability of insurance is the right move. This doesn't have to be a government plan. Individual plans can cost less than employer plans that are driven up in cost by having to take with pre-conditions into the plan. One hidden feature, you won't stay unemployed too long to keep the plan to date.

              The Pre-condition issues are a problem, but Insurance companies could offer plans that cover health issue that occur that are unrelated to many conditions.

              For the others who would like to afford insurance, graduated help would be the best solution. Zero pay should be a non-starter. The government should offer to assist similar to earned income credits.

              • 2 votes
              #3.4 - Tue Aug 18, 2009 10:28 PM EDT
              truthseeker-

              Congress and BO are so involved in self-agrandizement that they have forgotten that the Constitution defines a government OF THE PEOPLE, BY THE POEPLE AND FOR THE PEOPLE.

              VOTE OUT ALL INCUMBANTS

              • 4 votes
              #3.5 - Tue Aug 18, 2009 11:16 PM EDT
              raisin obama

              elchiparoso:

              Have you been smoking with POTUS?

              You are not just stuck on stupid, are you?

              Get your entitling butt off your couch, put your hand back in your pocket, and get a job.

              Obama already passed the so called "stimulus bill" so you wouldn't be unemployed, it must be a choice on your part if you are unemployed.

              Quit looking for a handout, be responsible. Grow up.

              If you want free health care, join the military, or get a government job.

              Of course, you have to pass the kool aid test, that could be a problem.

              • 1 vote
              #3.6 - Fri Aug 21, 2009 3:23 AM EDT
              Reply
              Oplis

              I've just read page 425 of the Healthcare bill, and it says there can be consultation by a Doctor explaining certain things about a living will, and about powers of attorney, in other words, consultation to help a person prepare legally for their eventual death. And this is not a forced consultation. There is no damn death panel, and the Reds are what I said many times, LIARS!

              • 3 votes
              #4 - Tue Aug 18, 2009 7:36 PM EDT
              JOHN-332555

              Tell me one program the govt runs well? SS will be broke in 20 years and Medicare is a joke, talk about fraud and waste.....

              • 12 votes
              #4.1 - Tue Aug 18, 2009 7:44 PM EDT
              Leslie1Deleted
              Wisconsin Bob

              The definition of ethicist from Webster's = An ethicist is one whose judgment on ethics and ethical codes has come to be trusted by a specific community, and (importantly) is expressed in some way that makes it possible for others to mimic or approximate that judgement.

              What specific community are we talking about? I don't care who it is, they don't have the right to make a decision about my family and their right to live. That is complete BS.

              Also, look at the double talk. He calls this a delicate conversation we all need to have and a few months later he is trying to ram it through without listening to what anyone else is saying unless they happen to agree with him.

              BO stinks.

              • 9 votes
              #4.3 - Tue Aug 18, 2009 8:05 PM EDT
              qudrcps

              Once again, taken "out of context".

              1. End of life discussions are a routine part of medical prcatice at the present, and, unlike an ofice visit are usually not reimbursed.

              2. "It is very difficult to imagine the country making those decisions just through the normal political channels. And that's part of why you have to have some independent group that can give you guidance. It's not determinative, but I think has to be able to give you some guidance."

              This is also called "evidence-based medicine" - Do you have any reasonable, clinically-verifiable evidence to show that what you are doing to/with the patient is "efficacious" (clinically valuable) rather than "flogging" the lungs with a ventilator in the ICU, or the heart with drugs for no good reason other than making money or making a political point (AKA the Teri Schiavo "catastrophe").

              • 1 vote
              #4.4 - Tue Aug 18, 2009 8:18 PM EDT
              Leslie1Deleted
              Captain Marvelous

              take a look at Tom Daschle's book regarding healthcare, he makes several references to the elderly just having to accept the fact that "they don't get to live forever". Daschle was one of Obama's appointees that failed to pay his taxes and fortunately got thrown under the bus.

              • 6 votes
              #4.6 - Tue Aug 18, 2009 9:20 PM EDT
              demitrix

              However, HR 3200 does have a Commission that can "suggest" or determine what treatments are feasible.

              That is the Death Panel, not preparing living wills etc.

              The very concept that a Government Appointed board can determine what drugs or treatments are viable is the Death Panel and what is wrong with this plan.

              Also for everyone who thinks they will suddenly qualify for cheaper insurance, remember this is about insuring 50 million uninsured, not insuring people for less money because they could use that spare money.

              • 7 votes
              #4.7 - Tue Aug 18, 2009 9:23 PM EDT
              elchiparoso

              Oplis, they have been watching too much of FOX propaganda. You can not even call it FOX news.

              • 2 votes
              #4.8 - Tue Aug 18, 2009 9:53 PM EDT
              elchiparoso

              John, who is causing all the fruad. The doctors and big corporate hospitals. Lets put the blame where it should be. As far as going broke do you know why? With a decreasing workforce there is less money coming in to pay for the medical claims of the elderly patients.

              The elderly are generally the most sickly people of our population. This is the only reason health insurance would never insure just the elderly, because they could not make a profit. The risk is too too high. It is only common sense. Now if we had medic care also insuring all the young primuim paying healthy people it would be in much better financial condition. Why? Because the young are generally real healthy, the risk is much much less. Makes sense. I do not know why I am even wasting my time explaining this, since you nay sayers have already made up your little minds.

              • 2 votes
              #4.9 - Tue Aug 18, 2009 10:02 PM EDT
              larry-292879

              sorry they took this out of the bill because of our Stupid SARAH PALIN calling it a death penalty

              • 1 vote
              #4.10 - Tue Aug 18, 2009 10:14 PM EDT
              choochoo-1167113

              JOHN, you make a good point in saying that there is fraud and waste in government programs. That's why it's such a good thing that President Obama is making sure that these things will be addressed in health care reform.

              • 3 votes
              #4.11 - Tue Aug 18, 2009 10:16 PM EDT
              choochoo-1167113

              Wisconsin Bob, President Obama is a great man who was left with a stinky mess. He is doing much more than anyone else would be able to do given the cards he was dealt. Don't you remember that the previous party in power planned to make themselves the permanent rulers of this country?

              • 3 votes
              #4.12 - Tue Aug 18, 2009 10:26 PM EDT
              choochoo-1167113

              elchiparoso, the fact is that people who are not elderly can file for Medicare if they become permanently disabled. That's because all taxpayers pay into Medicare. It's the same concept that private insurance companies use, except that with private companies it's called a premium.

              • 2 votes
              #4.13 - Tue Aug 18, 2009 10:45 PM EDT
              truthseeker-

              OPLIS - - let me understand, the Bamacare would put a doctor in charge of explaining a legal will and power of attorney??? Doctors normally can't even balance their own checkbook, I would NEVER want them giving me Legal Advice, that should come from an Attorney - someone trained in the issues of a Will and Power of Attorney.

              Sounds like Bamacare is advocating legal malpractice by the doctor - Again, Bama just doesn't understand that Americans have more intelligence than he and congress combined. Transparency??The Emperor Bama has no clothes.

              • 2 votes
              #4.14 - Tue Aug 18, 2009 11:22 PM EDT
              internet addict

              NO Truthseeker. The Doctor would explain what different medical proceedures do, so the patient has current information about their specific health situation. Some people do not want to be kept alive by respirators, etc., but some people want pain medication. They would know what procedures are taken for their health situation and can then choose what they want. The patient would still have to go to a lawyer for a living will, or Do not resuscitation statement, etc. Doctors MUST do all possible things to save a life unless that person has specifically drawn up legal documents to stop certain actions. Those legal documents must be presented to the doctors, hospital etc., before the listed actions can be stopped ( or never started). Someone's word is not enough. The patient sets the choices, and then the patient must make it legally binding. By having a talk with their doctor he also becomes aware of their personal choices and might ask for that legal document in an emergency situation where it might be used.

              • 1 vote
              #4.15 - Wed Aug 19, 2009 9:53 AM EDT
              Valhalla Phil

              Internet, you don't understand how socialists, and governments in general, work. Once the foot is in the door, the plan can change over time with much less fanfare. The ONLY way to stop this is to not allow it in the first place.

              Look at how Social Security started and where it is now. You start with something innocuous then, over time, introduce change after change and eventually you are left with exactly what is feared the most. There's a word for this; INCREMENTALISM!

              • 1 vote
              #4.16 - Wed Aug 19, 2009 5:11 PM EDT
              DUDE-875416

              I find it interesting how Democrats argue the text in the medical bill. They claim the text does not describe "death panels" or "rationed health care". But, they don't discuss the amendments offered by the Republicans. The Democrats refuse to consider amendments that clearly state there will be no death panels or rationing of medical care. These actions make it perfectly clear in my mind what their true intentions are.

              • 1 vote
              #4.17 - Thu Aug 20, 2009 11:57 AM EDT
              raisin obama

              Have all of you been smoking with POTUS?

              Put the kool aid jug and pipe down, after a while, things will clear, and you will see the error of your ways.

              You "blinders" are bankrupting your children with your kumbya singing policies that will haunt generations.

              See 1.66 for rest of comments, if the smoke clears up enough for you to see.

              Your actions and comments make you enablers of terrorists as much as Scotland.

              That's got to be some kind of Kool aid.

              • 1 vote
              #4.18 - Fri Aug 21, 2009 3:10 AM EDT
              raisin obama

              Dude:

              They are not democrats, they qualify as dumbocrats and blinders, it's like explaining to Scotland that State sponsered terrorism is wrong.

              • 1 vote
              #4.19 - Fri Aug 21, 2009 3:13 AM EDT
              Reply
              marileeExpand Comment Comment collapsed by the community

              Obama only wants this healthcare plan for the black families who's fathers don't support them. This should not be something we should be paying for! Our doctor told us, right now he gives 15 minutes to each patient, under the healthcare plan, it'll be 10 minutes.

              • 3 votes
              Reply#5 - Tue Aug 18, 2009 7:36 PM EDT
              Yankee Boy-1251460

              Then you're talking to the wrong doctor. This doctor should be reported. Will you do it?

              • 1 vote
              #5.1 - Tue Aug 18, 2009 7:47 PM EDT
              star555

              You are so wrong. Where do you get your information from?

                #5.2 - Tue Aug 18, 2009 7:56 PM EDT
                Damien Thorne

                Marilee

                Don't you have some cookies or something to bake? That was the dumbest thing I have heard all day besides your name.

                • 1 vote
                #5.3 - Tue Aug 18, 2009 8:27 PM EDT
                elchiparoso

                Marilee, now you hit it right on the nail. Most of you nay sayers subscripe to this bull. If you go by the numbers it will be the white poor who will benefit more from any change. But like many whites who fought for the South during the Civil War, you and many like you are soo blinded by racism that you fail to see the benefits. Some day your blindness will catch up to you. You are a bittered person. Continue to hold on to your bitterness and hate and your health will soon depart from you.

                • 1 vote
                #5.4 - Tue Aug 18, 2009 10:10 PM EDT
                choochoo-1167113

                Marlee, this is the most racist, ignorant nonsense I have ever heard. It is definitely slander and you should be prosecuted . Get a clue.

                • 1 vote
                #5.5 - Tue Aug 18, 2009 10:48 PM EDT
                Shawn6111

                I love hypocritical thinking like elchiparoso above. He clearly sees the bias in Fox news (I agree, by the way), but can't see the state run propoganda on MSNBC. Chris Mathews and Rachel "can my hair get any shorter?" Maddow labeled those who oppose the health care plan as right wing lunatics and dangerous conservatives. Well, that propoganda push against oppositional free speech failed because apparently 54% of the country are right wing lunatics. Another attempt by Dan Abrahms and company to control our viewpoints. Here's to the freedom to dissent.

                  #5.6 - Tue Aug 18, 2009 11:20 PM EDT
                  Reply
                  globug

                  I can't imagine the American public being skeptic about Obama and his health care package. Could it be because he and Congress will not be on the same plan? Maybe, it's because he and his spoke people cannot keep their stories straight. No one would trust or believe this man. He is a LIAR. Dishonesty is a part of his administration.

                  • 16 votes
                  Reply#6 - Tue Aug 18, 2009 7:37 PM EDT
                  NBBSBC82

                  B-I-N-G-O!!!!!

                  • 10 votes
                  #6.1 - Tue Aug 18, 2009 7:48 PM EDT
                  choochoo-1167113

                  globug, what do you hatemongers get out of spreading evil? Can't you see that your days are over?

                  • 2 votes
                  #6.2 - Tue Aug 18, 2009 10:55 PM EDT
                  Doctor Larry

                  choochoo - take off the blinders. The inauguration bash is over.

                  When the facts offend you, you know you are ignorant.

                  • 2 votes
                  #6.3 - Wed Aug 19, 2009 12:16 AM EDT
                  Reply
                  Anatoly

                  Yesterday's poll here on Newsvine was 65% for public option and 28% against. This NBC poll is rigged. No woner other news channels disregard this freshly cooked "news".

                  • 3 votes
                  Reply#7 - Tue Aug 18, 2009 7:39 PM EDT
                  Wisconsin Bob

                  One is a scientific poll, the other is not. You cannot take the one to the bank.

                  • 3 votes
                  #7.1 - Tue Aug 18, 2009 7:41 PM EDT
                  Ethical Family Physician

                  There is such a thing as a scientific poll?

                    #7.2 - Tue Aug 18, 2009 7:49 PM EDT
                    Wisconsin Bob

                    Yes.

                    An opinion poll is a survey of public opinion from a particular sample. Opinion polls are usually designed to represent the opinions of a population by conducting a series of questions and then extrapolating generalities in ratio or within confidence intervals.

                    This would be a scientifically conducted poll that helps assure accuracy of teh results as they are applied to the general population. Simple statistics classes are taught in many places. Please be sure to understand statistics if you are going to use them.

                    • 2 votes
                    #7.3 - Tue Aug 18, 2009 8:20 PM EDT
                    Carlos Toadvine

                    newsvine is hardly a representation of the nation, thank God.

                    • 2 votes
                    #7.4 - Tue Aug 18, 2009 10:14 PM EDT
                    Paul Fitzsimons

                    Carlos,

                    Amen to that!

                    • 1 vote
                    #7.5 - Tue Aug 18, 2009 11:20 PM EDT
                    Doctor Larry

                    Anatoly - you would believe any poll that supported your opinion, right?

                    That's what is wrong with the debate.

                    • 2 votes
                    #7.6 - Wed Aug 19, 2009 12:17 AM EDT
                    internet addict

                    This poll changed it's previous questions. Making any comparisons obsolete.

                    • 1 vote
                    #7.7 - Wed Aug 19, 2009 9:55 AM EDT
                    Teri-295467

                    Yeh, and I'm apart of the 65% For a Public Option! Amen! Screw the insurance companies.. they've been screwing us for far too long!

                      #7.8 - Thu Aug 20, 2009 4:40 AM EDT
                      DUDE-875416

                      Teri,

                      You need to realize why insurance companies make so much money. Simple, the government allows it through the lack of regulations and enforcement of same. The politicians are connected at the hip with large business because they get large amounts of money from them for their re-election campaigns. Don't blame big business, rather, blame our government for not keeping them honest. Like Chris Dodd removing text from the bill offering bail-outs that would have prevented bonuses paid by American tax dollars. Enough said!

                      • 3 votes
                      #7.9 - Thu Aug 20, 2009 12:07 PM EDT
                      Reply
                      American-344175Deleted
                      Dennis-956826

                      Most people do not want Obama Care.  People are afraid that Obama is going to try to push it through anyway.  I do not trust Obama, Pelosi, or Reid to do what the people want.  I think they all have their personal agenda they are trying to push through Congress.

                      • 14 votes
                      Reply#9 - Tue Aug 18, 2009 7:42 PM EDT
                      william plotts

                      that makes two of us

                      • 8 votes
                      #9.1 - Tue Aug 18, 2009 7:44 PM EDT
                      jpfs52

                      I've been trying to get people to realize that the politicians in Washington are not in charge. They are told what to do by a few power brokers and their corporate cronies. Everything you read in the newspapers are lies and deception. There is an agenda and it's a global agenda. If you think for one minute that our government has it's citizens at the top of their agenda, your mistaken. These politicians are puppets for a small group of individuals who are really running the world. Believe it or not. No one would have believed that the North American Union would happen, but it's in the planning stages and has been for a long time. Just like the European Union, one currency between Mexico, the US and Canada. It's no longer about the United States of America. It's all about globalization and eventually a one world government. Google for a bit on the issue and it's all right there in plain site.

                      • 4 votes
                      #9.2 - Tue Aug 18, 2009 7:53 PM EDT
                      Dan-983606

                      They call it "putting points on the board". They just want to pass something so they can say they won.

                      • 3 votes
                      #9.3 - Tue Aug 18, 2009 10:02 PM EDT
                      Carlos Toadvine

                      I think our representatives are representing the government when they are supposed to be representing us! Think about the irony of them coming to us to convince us to do what they want us to do! Shouldn't they be listening to us? They actually refer to dissenters as troublemakers! We don't work for them as far as I know, but maybe we do. If they take over our economy we will indeed work for them. This is crazy. This is a perfect example of why we need to turn over the congress every 2 years and the Senate every 6 years, they really don't have a clue who they work for, it seems to me the democrats think they are working for the President and the republicans who the hell knows, either way they are wrong, we are just the reliable fools who vote for them in their view and we need to change it, now.

                      • 2 votes
                      #9.4 - Tue Aug 18, 2009 10:23 PM EDT
                      elchiparoso

                      No Dan, that is not their reason for change. There are many other reasons for change, and most has to do with economics. Plain and simple.

                        #9.5 - Tue Aug 18, 2009 10:27 PM EDT
                        GCHGA

                        These guys are too busy blaming Bush and the Repubs for all their troubles  to realize that  the real  game is  what you're saying Mr Sholly.  The work force is there laying the ground work for all of the blinded sheep.

                        Why do you think half the Clinton administration surfaced out of the woodwork in Obama's administration?

                        Just a coincidence? I think not. The Clinton's are members of the Global Board and back to working on your futures. I guess you also believe it's a coincidence that half the financial gurus that Obama uses are ex associates or CEO's of Goldman Sachs. Sure alot of coincidences going on here. Where the money is -money rules and they're ripping yours off now. In actuallity Obama and his goons are more republican that the republicans were, especially when it comes to money in and out of their pockets.

                        Wake up America --- while you still can recognize the landscape.

                        • 2 votes
                        #9.6 - Tue Aug 18, 2009 10:33 PM EDT
                        Teri-295467

                        Many People DO Trust Obama and Do want a Public Option! They don't trust the same old rhetoric of the Repubs from the past (8) years. Whats sickening is that either you people who are putting down the Public Option work for the insurance industry, have stock in the insurance industry, you just plain don't care, or you don't think you or your family would ever be in a situation where you'd need to utilize a public option. Or.... one more thought.... you're millionaires and don't want to be taxed more heavily to pay for the public option.

                          #9.7 - Thu Aug 20, 2009 4:59 AM EDT
                          Reply
                          lucy-263358

                          I learned a long time ago not to trust most politicians---especially Democrats. For them, the end justifies the means as long as the goal is achieved. Nothing is sacred as long as they achieve their ends. All they usually wind up doing is creating a big mess for someone else to clean up and feeding and enhancing the entitlement mentality.

                          • 6 votes
                          Reply#10 - Tue Aug 18, 2009 7:43 PM EDT
                          Yankee Boy-1251460

                          You must have been sleeping through the entire Cheney administration.

                          • 3 votes
                          #10.1 - Tue Aug 18, 2009 7:44 PM EDT
                          American-344175Deleted
                          Ron-965361

                          Cheney gets the best health care........we buy it.

                          • 2 votes
                          #10.3 - Tue Aug 18, 2009 7:50 PM EDT
                          Yankee Boy-1251460

                          What you meant to say American was "you're a liberal" not the incorrect "your." Man, talk about your IQ issues. Go back to 5th grade and learn your grammer. Intelligent? I don't think so American. More like the poster child for our bad public schools. What a maroon!

                          • 2 votes
                          #10.4 - Tue Aug 18, 2009 7:52 PM EDT
                          brad-530094

                          replace dem with repug

                            #10.5 - Tue Aug 18, 2009 7:56 PM EDT
                            oldtimevalues-945340-1088820

                            What is a "maroon"?

                            • 3 votes
                            #10.6 - Tue Aug 18, 2009 8:02 PM EDT
                            jpfs52

                            It's all designed to keep us confused and polarized; fighting among ourselves while they do exactly what their being told to do by the people who are really in charge. These people in Washington are puppets for the power brokers and corporation that feed their pockets. They are not to be trusted and it's about time that the American people demanded the truth about whose really calling the shots before it's too late. It might already be...............

                            • 2 votes
                            #10.7 - Tue Aug 18, 2009 8:07 PM EDT
                            doug1961Deleted
                            Leslie1Deleted
                            rawdave

                            Yankee Boy and Ron - Could you please go through this entire newsvine thread and post it was Bush and Cheney on every post? This will make you look REALLY intelligent.

                            • 2 votes
                            #10.10 - Tue Aug 18, 2009 9:26 PM EDT
                            elchiparoso

                            Do you think for one monent you can trust Republican. I have learned not to put all your trust in anyone because you may be disappointed. Man is not perfect. Man is basically evil. This is a theological belief shared by many christians which I also happen to believe.

                            I am not saying that man is evil all the time. When I look at a law, I try to determind who is going to benefit the most. I also attemp to determind why someone would support such a law, or plan. Many times the intention is good, but the result may be bad. Social engineering is not something easy to analyze. No I am not an expert. I do like to dig for the facts and as much of it as I can get. Emotional comments hold no weight when analyzing anything.

                              #10.11 - Tue Aug 18, 2009 10:30 PM EDT
                              Valhalla Phil

                              The economy was fine when republicans ran everything and I was able to retire early. Id trust them any day on the economy. It's the anti capitalist, anti business democrats that I don't trust. After they took control of congress in 2006, the country started down the tubes.

                              • 2 votes
                              #10.12 - Wed Aug 19, 2009 5:37 PM EDT
                              Teri-295467

                              To: Lucy. Excuse Me?! You mean the Big Fat, Catastophic, Titanic Mess the Republicans Created Over the Past (8) Eight years, and Left for the Democrats to Clean Up! You mean That Mess?!! The Worst Freakin' Mess in 75 years!! And... after all that you Still Believe the Lies the repubs and the conservatives spew out Daily!

                              Either you're drinking, smoking, or just plain pathetic.

                                #10.13 - Thu Aug 20, 2009 5:08 AM EDT
                                Reply
                                Yankee Boy-1251460

                                Our President needs to stop taking prisoners on this one. Lyndon Johnson didn't seek "bi-partisan support" when he passed civil rights, voting rights and Medicare. He understood how to count votes and he let members of Congress from all sides know he was the boss. He knew how to take names and kick rear, and anyone in office knew he knew how to wreck your career. He knew where every skeleton was buried and wouldn't hesitate to "encourage your support." (Can you say, "blackmail.") He'd tell you straight up, you'll smile at the camera and mind your manners while he signed the bills. That's what we need now; a "Landslide Lyndon" who knows how to whip these clowns into line.

                                If Obama can't do that, I suggest he throw in the towel and blame the republicans. With the baby boomers hitting Medicare next year, it won't be long before our national do nothing know-it-alls fail. As usual. Then we can ram through a national single payer system and be done with this once and for all.

                                • 2 votes
                                Reply#11 - Tue Aug 18, 2009 7:43 PM EDT
                                Ron-965361

                                I agree. Did Cheney compromise on anything?

                                • 2 votes
                                #11.1 - Tue Aug 18, 2009 7:57 PM EDT
                                jdub99999

                                How can you even begin to say blame the republicans.  I am not fond of either party but the libs have both the house and the senate.  There is no need for a republican vote if the dems would all fall in line.  But by the grace of God there are a few blue dog dems that actually see behind the curtain and see the messiah obama pulling the levers.  The govt can't run anything so why does anyone think they can run healthcare? 

                                • 3 votes
                                #11.2 - Tue Aug 18, 2009 8:26 PM EDT
                                usmcvet5711

                                yankee boy you mean the lyndon B johnson who took us into Viet Nam and then let the politicians run it. Who extended the war by extreme bad political management. Who went farther to enact more entitlement programs. Yea good role model you got and you complain about President Bush. President Bush fought two wars after we were directly attacked and sought approval from Congress which he got and then went to war with far fewer casualties than Viet Nam and a victory in Iraq. Whereas Johnson created the Tonkin Resolution which took the decision of using military force out of the Congresses hands and placed it solely in the Presidents Hands which he then used to start a "police action" which quickly became the politicians war.

                                • 3 votes
                                #11.3 - Tue Aug 18, 2009 8:50 PM EDT
                                elchiparoso

                                Yankee boy, you surprise me. You know why President Kennedy got him to be his Vice-President. It was not because he like Johnson, it was because he knew Johnson was skillful in getting what he wanted in congress.

                                With out Johnson, the Civil Right Act would not have past during that period. It would have to wait for some other period.

                                It is refreshing to read blogs from someone who knows what they are talking about. Keep it up.

                                  #11.4 - Tue Aug 18, 2009 10:39 PM EDT
                                  Doctor Larry

                                  Lyndon Johnson ranks right up there with Jimmy Carter as the WORST president of the past century. WORST!

                                  I would not have appointed him dog catcher - he would have screwed all the pooches.

                                  • 1 vote
                                  #11.5 - Wed Aug 19, 2009 12:25 AM EDT
                                  jimiracle

                                  Wow... more lies from a right-wing kook.

                                  C-Span got together dozens of presidential historians a few months ago, and they determined Johnson to be the 11th greatest president! Carter was the 25th of 43, and Bush was the 36th best president, making both Johnson and Carter far better than "W".

                                  If you don't know what you're talking about, it's best to shut the hell up. You only embarass yourself with your lies (or stupidity, whichever).

                                  http://www.c-span.org/PresidentialSurvey/Overall-Ranking.aspx

                                  • 1 vote
                                  #11.6 - Wed Aug 19, 2009 9:58 AM EDT
                                  Valhalla Phil

                                  Yankee boy, that's a lie. Johnson had to go to the republicans to pass civil rights. His fellow democrats fought it tooth and nail. The vast majority of the KKK was comprised of liberal democrats, like George Wallace and Robert "Sheets" Byrd.

                                  You should consider suing your school system for non performance. Either that or you were smoking something potent history class. :<)

                                  • 1 vote
                                  #11.7 - Wed Aug 19, 2009 5:42 PM EDT
                                  Reply
                                  Transplant-1160812

                                  As a health care provider I find one of the worst things that ever happend to health care is insurance. People are continuously making decsions based on what their insurance will cover not what is in their best interest. The only thing worse is the Government making those decisions for you and me...

                                  • 12 votes
                                  Reply#12 - Tue Aug 18, 2009 7:44 PM EDT
                                  me262

                                  Transplant,

                                  I have a somewhat different view. I believe that "doctors" deliberately run up their bills to their obvious benefit. Insurance companies fight this by disallowing certain charges, and setting maximums for a particular procedure. Doctors respond by resubmitting denied claims under different procedural catagories in order to obtain payment from the insurance companies.

                                  The bottom line, is that the doctors and insurance companies play games with each other, and the patient is caught in the middle. I have personally witnessed this, and believe that this probably the rule rather than the exception.

                                  Again, the patient is "cruely" caught in the middle between doctors and insurance companies.

                                  The fault does not soley rest with insurance companies.

                                  • 2 votes
                                  #12.1 - Tue Aug 18, 2009 7:52 PM EDT
                                  Transplant-1160812

                                  Well all I can say is that if any Doctor did anything that wasn't required or unethical, every patient has recourse. If the insurance company does the same no one has recourse.. the patient suffers.

                                  • 1 vote
                                  #12.2 - Tue Aug 18, 2009 8:10 PM EDT
                                  jpfs52

                                  Your right, health care is a business and it's all about profits; with the insurance companies right there filling their pockets while people die. We're being lied to by the people in Washington on just about every level.

                                  • 3 votes
                                  #12.3 - Tue Aug 18, 2009 8:16 PM EDT
                                  choochoo-1167113

                                  Transplant, when the government insurance is Medicaid, you are exactly right. Far too often, patients do not get the care or medical equipment they need because of the claim denials and limits imposed by their insurance. That's a major reason why the government needs to clean up that mess by doing some serious investigations of how Medicaid is presently being run before taking on any other health care reform.

                                  • 1 vote
                                  #12.4 - Tue Aug 18, 2009 11:07 PM EDT
                                  RossJ

                                  Do you know why Doctors run every test in the book? Because if they don't, they will get sued for NOT pursuing all avenues of possible treatment and diagnosis. Do you know that malpractice isn't just recommended for doctors? Nurses, phlebotomists, CNAs, etc are all encouraged to have malpractice insurance. If doctors were allowed to actually practice medicine, nurses were actually allowed to care for patients instead of filling out so much paperwork to cover their a$$s, we would actually have good health care. As a nurse, I find it frustrating that I have to fill out the the same information on 3,4,5 forms in order to SHOW care is given properly. Because if I don't, I will get sued.

                                  Medical professionals from government run programs like their programs because they actually get to take care of their patients. Wouldn't that be a novel idea?

                                  • 1 vote
                                  #12.5 - Wed Aug 19, 2009 12:46 AM EDT
                                  Valhalla Phil

                                  You're right, my wife is a nurse and carries $1M in malpractice. However, government run programs will be a disaster for health care professionals unless they like working for peanuts. Remember, when only government pays your salary, you are a liability with no recourse. How will they cut costs? By lowering your salary.

                                  The last I heard of the bill they are going to cut Medicare/Medicaid reimbursement from 80% to 60% in the name of cost cutting. If you don't have private insurance to pick up the difference, it will be you that will eat the deficit.

                                  • 1 vote
                                  #12.6 - Wed Aug 19, 2009 5:49 PM EDT
                                  Reply
                                  me262

                                  I have never been more "distrustful" of our government in my life.

                                  This president is deliberately vague on everything, in an attempt to deceive Americans into supporting this. He has clearly orchestrated a strategy of demonization against all who oppose him. This strategy is representative of something you would see in Nazi Germany or the USSR, not in the United States. I cannot believe what I am seeing, where protesters are attacked and demonized by the government to stifle dissent. This is scary, and reflects that our democracy is under "seige" by the Obama administration and his Congress.

                                  This president wants to redistribute wealth, provide healtcare to "illegals," and wants to consolidate power over all of our lives. He is a despot who is obviously driven by his lust for power.

                                  I am thankful for the protests that appear to have gotten the attention of Congress. It scares me to think where we would be right now without them. I suspect that this Congress would have given carte blanc to this president to do whatever he wants, regardless of the consequences to our nation.

                                  We are on the verge of a "one party" system in the United States. If Obama completes his agenda, he will have total power and control. All checks and balances will be gone, and he will rule supreme.

                                  • 12 votes
                                  #13 - Tue Aug 18, 2009 7:44 PM EDT
                                  jonas-307607

                                  Well put! I believe incimbants are starting to run scared. As a people (no matter what party affiliation), we can stop this insanity by replacing them in the next elections. I suggest folks get the facts, see who their representatives are, and if you don't agree with their philosophies......vote them OUT!

                                  • 8 votes
                                  #13.1 - Tue Aug 18, 2009 7:53 PM EDT
                                  Yankee Boy-1251460

                                  A one party system? I hope so. I don't think we can continue to afford these screw ball conservatives and their 19th century view of the world.

                                  • 1 vote
                                  #13.2 - Tue Aug 18, 2009 7:55 PM EDT
                                  me262

                                  Yankee Boy,

                                  Then you "are" a true socialist. The rest of us will fight you in our attempt to preserve our democracy.

                                  You "are" the enemy to our form of government.

                                  • 4 votes
                                  #13.3 - Tue Aug 18, 2009 8:00 PM EDT
                                  Yankee Boy-1251460

                                  You bet I am. But I'm not a neo-fascist, like you. And I'm not living in some dream world of the past, like you. So, bring it on! (To paraphrase your boyfriend W.)

                                  • 1 vote
                                  #13.4 - Tue Aug 18, 2009 8:04 PM EDT
                                  brad-530094

                                  me262 has been in a coma for about 8 and 1/2 years as for your extreme paraniod issues turn off glenn beck and use google for f-sake!!!!!! NO INSURANCE FOR ILLEGALS IN THIS BILL. all they have to do is use the emergency room because they cant be turned away and it costs EVERYONE WHO PAYS TAXES! make everyone on capitol hill use the govt plan and i bet it works

                                  • 1 vote
                                  #13.5 - Tue Aug 18, 2009 8:06 PM EDT
                                  Ron-965361

                                  I think 19th century is a compliment they do not deserve.

                                  • 1 vote
                                  #13.6 - Tue Aug 18, 2009 8:06 PM EDT
                                  me262

                                  Yankee Boy,

                                  You will be vanquished in the end. You will suffer the same fate that all socialists inevitably obtain.

                                  We will fight you, and we will win. We will preserve our democracy.

                                  Evil will not prevail. You will not prevail.

                                  • 7 votes
                                  #13.7 - Tue Aug 18, 2009 8:08 PM EDT
                                  Yankee Boy-1251460

                                  Yea, yea, yea. Break out the sabers and the cannons and blast us all back to the future. Everyone of you goofy conservatives needs a good whipping. Maybe you'd get some smarts. One more thing--WE DON'T LIVE IN A DEMOCRACY! We live in a constitutional republic. Look it up for goodness sake. Try to get it right. And we do not live in a capitalist state. You CAN NOT find the words "capitalist" or "capitalism" ANYWHERE in the Constitution. Please, have a look. It isn't there. (Sorry to burst your bubble.)

                                  • 1 vote
                                  #13.8 - Tue Aug 18, 2009 8:14 PM EDT
                                  Wisconsin Bob

                                  Boy - you are correct. We do live in a republic. You now need to look up the meaning of the word republic.

                                  • 1 vote
                                  #13.9 - Tue Aug 18, 2009 8:17 PM EDT
                                  me262

                                  Yankee Boy,

                                  Your Waterloo has already begun. The tide is turning.

                                  It begins in 2010.

                                  Now I have had enough of you, jackal.

                                  Be gone!

                                  • 3 votes
                                  #13.10 - Tue Aug 18, 2009 8:19 PM EDT
                                  Yankee Boy-1251460

                                  Sorry. I'm here to stay. And we are (finally!) in charge. Remember, you LOST last November. (I like the jackal thing. Nobody ever called me that before. Nice.)

                                  • 1 vote
                                  #13.11 - Tue Aug 18, 2009 8:27 PM EDT
                                  me262

                                  Yankee Boy,

                                  The word "jackal" is often used to describe a person who "scavanges" scraps off the misfortunes of others.

                                  I agree with you. The use of this word to describe you is completely appropriate.

                                  I could also substitute the "l" with a "ss."

                                  That would be appropriate, as well!

                                  • 4 votes
                                  #13.12 - Tue Aug 18, 2009 8:38 PM EDT
                                  Trillian

                                  The President is being vague because it's not his job, it's the job of congress through its constitutes (you and me) to draft the bill. But of course instead of coming up with solutions you are complaining.

                                  • 2 votes
                                  #13.13 - Tue Aug 18, 2009 10:05 PM EDT
                                  choochoo-1167113

                                  me262: You really do need to get your paranoia under control. There is help out there if you look for it. Good luck.

                                    #13.14 - Tue Aug 18, 2009 11:13 PM EDT
                                    Doctor Larry

                                    We ALL lost last November. It's just that 52% of the voters were too dumb to realize it.

                                    You are NOT in charge - in case you have not noticed, your boyfriend has dropped faster than a rock in his so-called popularity. As have Pelosi, Frank, Reid, etc.

                                    2010 will be a good year for Conservatives.

                                    • 2 votes
                                    #13.15 - Wed Aug 19, 2009 12:29 AM EDT
                                    Valhalla Phil

                                    Yankee, you are a fascist just for advocating a single party system! What if it were the conservative party? Would you still be all for it? That's why we need choice. Of course you are afraid that your guys will be ousted in 2010 so I can see why you would advocate a fascist takeover before it's too late.

                                    • 2 votes
                                    #13.16 - Wed Aug 19, 2009 5:55 PM EDT
                                    Teri-295467

                                    TO: Me262; Are you naive? This is the most open govenment in history... and you distrust it? Turn off Rush, Beck, Fox, and the Repubs.. and figure it out. If you'd use your head, instead of listening to outright misrepresentations, and lies.. it's evil and hate filled Right-wingers who are only concerned about their own political or careers, who wouldnt be so skeptical. It's people like you Who ARe Actually Helping the Insurance Companies Stay Wealthly and Screw the Middle Class!!

                                    Furthermore, why don't you log on to the whitehouses website, seek out the answers to you questions, and write the president with your concerns and Your Questions?????!!

                                      #13.17 - Thu Aug 20, 2009 5:21 AM EDT
                                      Reply
                                      luvenia48

                                      Insurance companies 100 Americans 000. There are waiting lines now. A young man I just meant has been waiting for two years and counting for his surgery. People are dying everyday from lack of care, many with insurance that just refuse to pay for their treatment. The haves are up in the air and will remain so until they or someone they love needs major treatments and are turned down. The will shout and complain until some of them have to explain to their family that they or one of them might die because the insurance company will not pay or like the young man they are put on a waiting list for over two years for the surgery needed to go back to work.

                                      • 2 votes
                                      Reply#14 - Tue Aug 18, 2009 7:45 PM EDT
                                      choochoo-1167113

                                      luvenia, the horror stories are endless. You are right. But, it doesn't seem to matter whether the insurance is private or public. In fact, government run insurance seems to be even worse. Paraplegics are denied wheel chairs and people with respiratory problems can't get the breathing equipment they need. People die every day due to the greed and incompetence of those running the insurance scams.

                                      • 2 votes
                                      #14.1 - Tue Aug 18, 2009 11:23 PM EDT
                                      Teri-295467

                                      No Choochoo.. actually a government run insurance plan will Force the Insurance Companies to become more competitive and offer businesses and individuals better rates and better health plans!! They aren't going to want to give up their customer base and they will lower their profit margins and cut the fat in order to compete with a government public option.

                                        #14.2 - Thu Aug 20, 2009 5:24 AM EDT
                                        Reply
                                        Lance 22

                                        Wisconsin Bob - I agree 100% with you, unfortunately a Democratic-controlled Congress will not touch tort reform since that would be slapping an important base of support for them. Remember, they are also the party that prefers to legislate from the bench.

                                        • 4 votes
                                        Reply#15 - Tue Aug 18, 2009 7:45 PM EDT
                                        jeff-1283383

                                        Lance, in case you have forgotten, Bush/Cheney didn't touch tort reform either when they had the majority. No politician is going to touch tort reform because most of them are LAWYERS!

                                        • 1 vote
                                        #15.1 - Tue Aug 18, 2009 8:20 PM EDT
                                        Dan-983606

                                        They won't touch it unless we force the issue. Let's remind our Senators and Representatives we want the lawyers to contribute to controlling health care costs. They are a big cause of this mess, and they should help fix it.

                                        Drs. pay $100,000/yr and up for liability insurance (of course we pay for it on our bills). They order extra tests to cover their rears. Malpractice out of court settlements are so common they are just a cost of doing business for Drs. and hospitals. All this taken together is a big reason our health care costs are higher than other countries. No other country in the world has a civil legal system that creates huge incentives to sue.

                                        I saw a bill board last week advertising a law office with the web address: "whocanisue.com" DISGUSTING!

                                        • 2 votes
                                        #15.2 - Tue Aug 18, 2009 10:13 PM EDT
                                        choochoo-1167113

                                        Lance, torte reform is a red herring being used by those people who would like to see President Obama fail so that they might be able to take over this country again. Don't be distracted by them. They are evil.

                                          #15.3 - Tue Aug 18, 2009 11:26 PM EDT
                                          Doctor Larry

                                          choo-choo - BS.

                                          Tort reform is REQUIRED to bring down costs and increase availability of health care.

                                          Doctors are either quitting or avoiding the higher risk procedures because of the high cost of malpractice insurance. Even the ones that continue practice order up oodles of tests to protect them, not us. That is the real problem with healthcare.

                                          Until enough people understand that, we are doomed to continue failing.

                                          • 3 votes
                                          #15.4 - Wed Aug 19, 2009 12:33 AM EDT
                                          Reply
                                          Rambo The Dog

                                          Remeber If BHO has had his way - there wouldn't have been ANY debate, or town hall meetings. That's why we are growing to distrust this man.

                                          It's only because his own party is not together as to why it wasn't thrust down our throats a.k.a Porkulus and the 9000 earmarked budget.

                                          And "The Ones" politics as usual (wasn't he going to change the way Washington worked?) is still blaming his predecessor and the "other" party for this not getting passed.

                                          Interstate competition and tort reform would go much further to reign in costs than ANYTHING in HR3200.

                                          • 11 votes
                                          Reply#16 - Tue Aug 18, 2009 7:46 PM EDT
                                          choochoo-1167113

                                          Rambo The Dog: Tort reform is a bad idea which would strip Americans of their rights. It's another one of those silly extremist ideas. Your statement that our president is opposed to town hall meetings and debate is total nonsense. Stop trying to spread rumors.

                                          • 1 vote
                                          #16.1 - Tue Aug 18, 2009 11:31 PM EDT
                                          Rambo The Dog

                                          What are you talking about?

                                          Your exalted one wanted HR3200 passed and signed before the congress took their August recess.

                                          I stated nothing but fact - and I'll state it again LOUDLY

                                          THERE WOULD HAVE BEEN NO DEBATE OR TOWN HALL MEETINGS ON HR3200 IF BHO HAD HIS WAY!

                                          • 3 votes
                                          #16.2 - Wed Aug 19, 2009 12:26 AM EDT
                                          Doctor Larry

                                          Obama and the liberals in Congress are trying to pass every extreme measure without debate and even without reading the bills. That is no rumor, that is a blatant fact that they are proud of.

                                          Now that they have been slowed by real people, they want to stifle free speech and discussion.

                                          • 2 votes
                                          #16.3 - Wed Aug 19, 2009 12:35 AM EDT
                                          Teri-295467

                                          Not True Rambo the Dog! Obama told congress what he wanted ... and hoped for a bipartisan plan. You obvious Don't know what you're talking about, because the Pres has advocated for bipartisanship just as he said during his campaign, on all issues he's addressed since inauguration day.

                                            #16.4 - Thu Aug 20, 2009 5:28 AM EDT
                                            Reply
                                            Ron-965361

                                            Repulicans, just like before the illegal Iraq war, have done an excellent job lying. We are soon to be a country of working poor if the far right special interest groups have thier way.

                                            • 3 votes
                                            Reply#17 - Tue Aug 18, 2009 7:47 PM EDT
                                            American-344175Deleted
                                            Yankee Boy-1251460

                                            See my post above you illiterate.

                                            • 1 vote
                                            #17.2 - Tue Aug 18, 2009 7:56 PM EDT
                                            jpfs52

                                            We are being systematically spliced and diced and soon there will be nothing left to salvage.

                                            • 3 votes
                                            #17.3 - Tue Aug 18, 2009 8:18 PM EDT
                                            choochoo-1167113

                                            That's exactly right, Ron.

                                              #17.4 - Tue Aug 18, 2009 11:33 PM EDT
                                              Doctor Larry

                                              yankee doodoo must be referring to Ron (illiterate).

                                              Oh, and yankee - are you checking out your grammer? How about your grampa? Are they maroon?

                                              • 2 votes
                                              #17.5 - Wed Aug 19, 2009 12:38 AM EDT
                                              reason84

                                              The corrupt politicians' strategy is working perfectly: divide and conquer, divide and conquer and divide and conquer. Party this, party that.....choosing between democrat and republican is brainwashing.....it's a no-win situation, you might as well choose between the Nazis and the Soviets.

                                                #17.6 - Wed Aug 19, 2009 3:26 AM EDT
                                                Teri-295467

                                                You said it Ron!

                                                  #17.7 - Thu Aug 20, 2009 5:29 AM EDT
                                                  Reply
                                                  jonas-307607

                                                  "would simply allow Medicare to pay doctors for end-of-life counseling, if the patient wishes".

                                                  Can anyone remember the movie Soylent Green and a guy named Kevorkian (he went to jail for this)

                                                  • 6 votes
                                                  Reply#18 - Tue Aug 18, 2009 7:48 PM EDT
                                                  Ethical Family Physician

                                                  But, those green cookies were sooooo good!

                                                  America, say good night to bo. He's done.

                                                  • 5 votes
                                                  #18.1 - Tue Aug 18, 2009 7:53 PM EDT
                                                  jonas-307607

                                                  Hmmmm, I believe they were more like green potato chips :)

                                                  • 2 votes
                                                  #18.2 - Tue Aug 18, 2009 8:05 PM EDT
                                                  Reply
                                                  Jim in Texas

                                                  Why wouldn't there be skepticism? Opponents of the Democratic plan have been assaulting the measure for more than two months while the proponents have chosen to sit on their hands. When there are charges leveled and no counter argument to challenge those charges, people tend to believe the last ~ and in this case ~ the only report. Obama and his minions have no standing to whine about inaccuracies at this late date. None of them are new but Democrats chose to surrender to them through passive response. Republicans are masters at selling bullsh-t. They have a rich history with it. Meanwhile, the other side is so offended by the smell that they choose to retreat. That's why they usually lose.

                                                    Reply#19 - Tue Aug 18, 2009 7:49 PM EDT
                                                    OneAlaskan

                                                    I am not in favor of throwing bull@!$%#. However, it might help to focus the concern. The nay-sayers are terrified by the word "socialism". Well, try this one on for size: Obligarchy. It means when a wealthy elite control a nation and keep the populace in servitude. H'mmm. Insurance Companies, anyone? How much a year in good old USA dollars is your homage to them? Your employers? Talk about a tax!!

                                                    • 2 votes
                                                    #19.1 - Tue Aug 18, 2009 7:54 PM EDT
                                                    Wisconsin Bob

                                                    Alaskan - it pales in comparison to what is paid in homage to the middle east for oil. If you are really against it, start pushing the issue to drill off-shore oil and in your backyard. At least with the insurance comapnies (in your scenario) our rulers are American.

                                                    • 3 votes
                                                    #19.2 - Tue Aug 18, 2009 8:14 PM EDT
                                                    Reply
                                                    nolie

                                                    Many of us don't believe what obama says because he keeps changing his story. A little while back he said he wanted a Canadian style single payer system. Now he doesn't want that, he wants something else. We don't know what he really wants and I have my doubts that he even knows what is actually written in this very long bill that he is pushing. All he wants for sure is to take more power for the govt. and to be able to claim victory on any bill.

                                                    This whole issue is further complicated by the media. Much of the media, led by NBC is so biased for obama, that we would be silly to take what the media says at face value., Will abortions be covered, will illegals be covered? The above story says they wouldn't, but since we can't really trust the media any more than we can trust the president or congress, that doesn't mean anything.

                                                    Vote them all out and quit watching NBC.

                                                    • 4 votes
                                                    Reply#20 - Tue Aug 18, 2009 7:49 PM EDT
                                                    Yankee Boy-1251460

                                                    When did he EVER say he wanted a "Canadian style system?" Show us. Go ahead. You can't. He never said it. Not that there's anything wrong with that. I would love it.

                                                      #20.1 - Tue Aug 18, 2009 7:58 PM EDT
                                                      choochoo-1167113

                                                      nolie, don't be silly. Do your homework. Get the facts. President Obama is doing a good job. He is open to ideas and change. He is willing to compromise. Don't listen to the evil propaganda of the greedy rich.

                                                      • 1 vote
                                                      #20.2 - Tue Aug 18, 2009 11:40 PM EDT
                                                      Valhalla Phil

                                                      The very fact that he calls anyone who disagrees with him evil says that he has no clue what he is doing. Since he has to stage his town hall meetings with shills says he is not doing a good job.

                                                      It is true that nowhere in the bill it says it will support abortions, but the problem is that it doesn't specifically forbid it either. Therefore it is open to liberal bureaucrats after the bill is passed to write the rules, which will not disallow funding for abortions.

                                                      It's the same with death panels, there are no prohibitions. This thing is a huge fascist blank check.

                                                      • 1 vote
                                                      #20.3 - Wed Aug 19, 2009 6:07 PM EDT
                                                      Reply
                                                      John Luma-1038450

                                                      60,000 AARP members have cancelled their memberships in protest of Obama's handling of broadening health-care???

                                                      There are over 35,000,000 (million) AARP members -- so that's less than 1/20th of 1% who cancelled. Whaoa! Not exactly a major concern.

                                                      As a member of AARP, which I do think is just about useless, I applaud the President's attempt to broaden coverage and lower costs. But if someone can explain how either private insurance companies or private insurance co-ops are going to put a lid on rising costs (private insurance premiums more than doubled in the last 9 years) then please show me how. Show me what the Conservative's solution is to our NATIONAL health care crisis.

                                                      And all those from 18 to 100 who want to pay for private retirement or private health care policies after retirement age, instead of Social Security or Medicare, please raise your hands. And let's stop these failed socialist intrusions once and for all.

                                                      • 4 votes
                                                      Reply#21 - Tue Aug 18, 2009 7:49 PM EDT
                                                      American-344175Deleted
                                                      jonas-307607

                                                      Remember all the fuss about the big bonuses on wall street, and all the profits by the oil companies? Why are we not screaming about the big winners in health care insurance. I am pretty sure they are making a pretty good profit!

                                                      • 3 votes
                                                      #21.2 - Tue Aug 18, 2009 7:56 PM EDT
                                                      OneAlaskan

                                                      Ha, ha, ha. Boy, you really slayed poor John with your wit.

                                                      • 1 vote
                                                      #21.3 - Tue Aug 18, 2009 7:59 PM EDT
                                                      Valhalla Phil

                                                      What you fail to realize is all the AARP members that are disgusted with management but still want the services. That 60,000 is really the tip of the iceberg.

                                                        #21.4 - Wed Aug 19, 2009 6:10 PM EDT
                                                        Reply
                                                        USAgent

                                                        If you So-called news people were even giving a crap you would understand that the whole thing just isn't about health care it about the state of the union and the massive spending that has been going on for YEARS!!! But I know you already know that, all you want to try to do is shift the issues and create a socialist state. If this country really relied on you guys to actually print the view and truths we would all be in dire straits. Thank God for our little brains that actually work. Listen up people its not rocket science if we keep going in the wrong direction with our so-called leaders on the hill we will have but our selves to blame for the continued failed policies. We need to stop trying to put a band-aid on our country and make them listen and do what WE THE PEOPLE want. They work for US!!    

                                                        • 4 votes
                                                        Reply#22 - Tue Aug 18, 2009 7:51 PM EDT
                                                        Doug-384925

                                                        "Forty-five percent think the reform proposals would allow the government to make decisions about when to stop providing medical care for the elderly."

                                                        I'll bet that that most of those 45% are the same people who believe that Saddam Hussein was involved in 9/11.

                                                        • 3 votes
                                                        #22.1 - Tue Aug 18, 2009 10:35 PM EDT
                                                        USAgent

                                                        Doug I bet you don't even know what medicare is for! As far as you throwing out a number like 45% get your facts straight bud. And it is on the table to have an overview of benefits. Why don't you try to read the proposed bill. Oh NM just sit back relax and let the cool aid flow through your veins.

                                                        • 2 votes
                                                        #22.2 - Wed Aug 19, 2009 5:52 AM EDT
                                                        Reply
                                                        headhoncho

                                                        MSNBC is composed of notorious liars. There is no way that only 47% of the people oppose socialized medicine and there is no way that as many as 43% are for it. The truth is that it is 78% against and 15% for with the rest just too stupid to know what to think. Quit lying to us MSNBC. Nobody believes you and with lies like this, your credibility lessens with each passing day. No wonder Fox cable is so much more popular that you. At least Fox tells the truth!

                                                        • 9 votes
                                                        Reply#23 - Tue Aug 18, 2009 7:51 PM EDT
                                                        me262

                                                        Good point.

                                                        I don't know anybody at my job that supports socialized medicine.

                                                        The numbers don't add up, and don't appear credible.

                                                        • 6 votes
                                                        #23.1 - Tue Aug 18, 2009 7:59 PM EDT
                                                        Yankee Boy-1251460

                                                        Right. Everyone knows Glenn Beck suffers from small man-parts which is why he's such an idiot. Not enough hormones. We've all seen his type in the locker room. Hiding behind a towel aftraid we'll all see the zits on his rear. No wonder he's a neo-Nazi. They always struggled with their manhood you know.

                                                        • 1 vote
                                                        #23.2 - Tue Aug 18, 2009 8:01 PM EDT
                                                        OneAlaskan

                                                        What is your job? Does your employer provide insurance?

                                                          #23.3 - Tue Aug 18, 2009 8:02 PM EDT
                                                          joeman-1274905

                                                          Yankee Boy-1251460 Your really telling everyone here about yourself, your own short commings so why bring Glen Beck into it? Oh right you need to blame someone,

                                                          obama and the congress has no idea what they are doing. obama runs all over the world running his mouth, with our tax money buying the gas. He ( open mouth out rolls the lies, he has no idea from one minute to the next what he just said. I NEVER VOTED FOR HIM, so I have a right to say he is a failure from day one.

                                                          • 2 votes
                                                          #23.4 - Tue Aug 18, 2009 9:46 PM EDT
                                                          Doug-384925

                                                          if they oppose socialized medicine do they also opposed Medicare?

                                                          • 1 vote
                                                          #23.5 - Tue Aug 18, 2009 10:36 PM EDT
                                                          jj-663268

                                                          Hey joeman, why can you blame but we can't. Typical Republican double standard. Rediculous.

                                                            #23.6 - Tue Aug 18, 2009 11:17 PM EDT
                                                            choochoo-1167113

                                                            headhoncho, you're wasting our time with your silly propagnda.

                                                            • 1 vote
                                                            #23.7 - Tue Aug 18, 2009 11:48 PM EDT
                                                            choochoo-1167113

                                                            me262- "socialized medicine"??? Where in the world did you get such an absurd notion? No one is even proposing any such thing! Get the facts before you start running at the keyboard.

                                                              #23.8 - Tue Aug 18, 2009 11:51 PM EDT
                                                              frangipani

                                                              This story is the most mangled interpretation of the facts on healthcare yet.

                                                              Great job! The truth is completely buried beneath this steaming pile of propaganda

                                                              *nbc poll...taken in the pits of rethug hell*

                                                                #23.9 - Tue Aug 18, 2009 11:59 PM EDT
                                                                Doctor Larry

                                                                yankee doodoo said:

                                                                Right. Everyone knows Glenn Beck suffers from small man-parts which is why he's such an idiot. Not enough hormones. We've all seen his type in the locker room. Hiding behind a towel aftraid we'll all see the zits on his rear. No wonder he's a neo-Nazi. They always struggled with their manhood you know.

                                                                I had guessed that that is what you spent most of your time doing - looking at guys butts in the locker room.

                                                                • 1 vote
                                                                #23.10 - Wed Aug 19, 2009 12:42 AM EDT
                                                                jimiracle

                                                                At least Fox tells the truth? Tell that to the US Court System, which concluded after a Libel Suit that was brought on by Sean Hannity and Bill O'Reilley vs. Al Franken for his book "Liars" that Al Franken was telling the truth and not guilty of libel.

                                                                Tell that to the poll that determined Fox News watchers believed more misconceptions (lies) about the start of the Iraq War than anyone else. http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com/archives/714.html

                                                                And just last night, new polls came out indicating that the people who watch Fox News believe more misconceptions about the current health care legislation than those who watch MSNBC. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3036677/#32468446 or even more numbers from http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26315908/#32469231

                                                                Even the idiots who are claiming Democrats are going to "kill grandma" are lying, since they voted for the same "death panels" in past legislation. So why is this "end of life" counseling suddenly evil? Why, because it is just a plot (and a lie) to kill health care reform, started by lobbyists for private health insurance companies and the lying right-wing posers who just want to attack Obama. Despite having supported "end of life" counseling just months, or even weeks ago. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26315908/#32411068

                                                                You must be pretty stupid to believe that Fox News tells the truth with an over-whelming preponderance of evidence to the contrary. In truth, Fox News lies all the time. You're just too stupid to realize it, or you're one of the lobbyists who want to continue making fools out of the average-joe GOP.

                                                                After all, all these retired people who are concerned with "keeping government hands off of my Medicare" are fooled by your propaganda, even though Medicare IS government-run health care. They're worried about "pulling the plug on Grandma", even though it is the insurance companies who are pulling the plug on grandma, every day. You should be ashamed of yourself for lying to the American people. You're not a citizen; you're an opportunist. Aren't you lying CEO's, who are making BILLION dollar annual salaries in private health insurance, rich enough?

                                                                We just need to inform the people more is all. In fact, the same polls that show approval (or lack of) for health care change their tune to being more positive for health care after they are given an explanation of the actual proposals. Stop taking advantage of the real working people's lack of time to actually research this matter by giving them emotionally-charged lies. When they know the truth, they're over-whelmingly for health care reform. Which makes sense, since why should millions be without coverage just to protect CEO paychecks? Every day, thousands die because they have no coverage.... we can not wait. To sit around and do nothing is tantamount to murder.

                                                                • 1 vote
                                                                #23.11 - Wed Aug 19, 2009 9:35 AM EDT
                                                                Valhalla Phil

                                                                Like I'd believe any poll you point to. The fact is, even the leftist propaganda machine, known as NBC shows Obama losing on this and sinking himself in the process. When they show a negative response, it's game over.

                                                                The GOP 21% is a total lie, they are the only one showing that. Others are showing that the GOP has gained supremecy on the issue.

                                                                • 1 vote
                                                                #23.12 - Wed Aug 19, 2009 6:31 PM EDT
                                                                Reply
                                                                DTNIC01

                                                                Maybe it is the media trying to put out "misperceptions", Seems to me from all I have read and heard that the public has it mostly right. Even some dems. say they cannot support obama's plan. Well I guess it is a good thing that the public option part of it isn't a must, but just a sliver of the whole plan. Oh wait, didn't he say before it was a must?

                                                                The way to pass his health care plan...make what he and government emplyees (ie, congress, justices) get available to all of us. He could give back the money he gets from the drug companies and go ahead with his promise of letting us buy cheaper meds. from FDA approved countries.

                                                                Perhaps if he was in his office more, and out on vacation less, he might know what he is saying. Well at least his family is having a great summer vacation on our tax dollars, while the rest of middle class america is hoping to have the money to buy our kids new school clothes. Lets see how his number do come christmas time and there is no money for presents.

                                                                • 3 votes
                                                                Reply#24 - Tue Aug 18, 2009 7:53 PM EDT
                                                                choochoo-1167113

                                                                DTN . . . . closet racists come up with the oddest ideas . . .

                                                                • 2 votes
                                                                #24.1 - Tue Aug 18, 2009 11:54 PM EDT
                                                                jimiracle

                                                                Seriously?

                                                                You do realize that Bush and Reagan took more vacations than any other president?

                                                                And expensive meds is Obama's fault? After Bush signed away our right to negotiate prescription drug plans in his corporate give-away of a prescription drug plan?

                                                                And what kind of American would fight for the right to just buy our drugs from other countries just because ours are so expensive? Wouldn't it make more sense to reform the prescription drug plans (i.e. health care reform) in America?

                                                                You're thinking like a typical repugliCON. Totally ass-backwards.

                                                                  #24.2 - Wed Aug 19, 2009 9:46 AM EDT
                                                                  Black KnightDeleted
                                                                  Valhalla Phil

                                                                  jimiracle

                                                                  That's why Obama cut a deal with big pharma that forbids foreign meds purchases. Yep, he's really in your corner all right! Careful, your propaganda is showing.

                                                                  • 1 vote
                                                                  #24.4 - Wed Aug 19, 2009 6:36 PM EDT
                                                                  Reply
                                                                  karo1964

                                                                  I am getting sick and tired of this clown in the wh trying to run every aspect of all of our lives! he lies through his teeth and mistakenly believes we are all stupid and can't read. We don't want your stupid health care plan, so shove it where the sun don't shine and go back to the south side of chicago, or even better, to Mongolia and leave us the hell alone!!!

                                                                  • 9 votes
                                                                  Reply#25 - Tue Aug 18, 2009 7:57 PM EDT
                                                                  OneAlaskan

                                                                  Whoa. That's free-floating anger there. Easy target?

                                                                    #25.1 - Tue Aug 18, 2009 7:59 PM EDT
                                                                    Yankee Boy-1251460

                                                                    We have medications available for depression you know. Do you have health care?

                                                                    • 1 vote
                                                                    #25.2 - Tue Aug 18, 2009 8:02 PM EDT
                                                                    dingles

                                                                    Too bad we don't have some medications for idiots. You need it bad Yankee Boy.

                                                                    • 3 votes
                                                                    #25.3 - Tue Aug 18, 2009 8:32 PM EDT
                                                                    jdub99999

                                                                    well said karo -- unlike yankee boy, we don't need the govt making every decision for us -- we can think for ourselves and make our own decisions -- therefore we could never be a liberal

                                                                    • 4 votes
                                                                    #25.4 - Tue Aug 18, 2009 8:35 PM EDT
                                                                    choochoo-1167113

                                                                    karo, calm down. Take your thorazine and go take a nap. We're not in 2007 any more.

                                                                      #25.5 - Tue Aug 18, 2009 11:57 PM EDT
                                                                      jimiracle

                                                                      We don't want Obama Health Care Reform? After 72% of America favored his public-option?

                                                                      Then the lies started, all started by corporate lobbyists who started webpages while pretending to be just "grass-roots". See how "grass-rootish" they are by checking out the "About Us" icon on the bottom of the pages. You'll find Freedom Works and 60Plus in most cases, both run by people like Steve Forbes and Dick Armee, both on record for having said that they want to eliminate Medicare.

                                                                      So if you support Medicare, and want to keep it, ignore these lies from the republicans, because they are on record for wanting to destroy Medicare. Eliminating modern reform is just their desperate attempt to prevent the humane and economical fix to our dilemmas by increasing Medicare for all.

                                                                      Check out the facts about how these anti-Medicare people are behind these "grass-roots" efforts.

                                                                      http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26315908/#32454754

                                                                        #25.6 - Wed Aug 19, 2009 10:11 AM EDT
                                                                        juno-932501

                                                                        The truth started to come out after the bill was made available and people saw a mirror image emerging of Socialized plans that are failing in Canada and UK. Ever hear of anyone going to Canada or UK for health care. I live near the Canadian border and Canadians pour over the border trying desparately to get decent care and escape rationing though they pay well over 50% in taxes to support the unwieldy and failing system they have they gladly pay cash dollars to have a chance at our healthcare.

                                                                        American Healthcare is expensive in large part because it is so damn good. It is available to all in some measure. Those who pay more may get more. What's new. If you work hard, make more money, you may live in a better house too. This is the land of opportunity and I for one am working very hard to make the most of it and that includes paying quite a lot for very very good private health insurance.

                                                                        • 3 votes
                                                                        #25.7 - Wed Aug 19, 2009 12:46 PM EDT
                                                                        Teri-295467

                                                                        Karo: You ARE stupid and you Don't Read because if you did you'd know the facts! Time to turn off the Repub and conservative Lies.... and do some true research and Check your Facts! Try FactCheck.org for starters!

                                                                          #25.8 - Thu Aug 20, 2009 5:51 AM EDT
                                                                          CBWY777Deleted
                                                                          Reply
                                                                          Miles the liberal

                                                                          I have lots of doubts about a government health plan. But we are the undisputed richest country in the world yet we can not afford universal health care. Oh we can afford it because the US pays more for health care per person than any other country in the world.

                                                                          Our health care system is a mess. If your rich you have medical care. If your middle class you have medical care till you loose your job due to cancer, aids or another major condition. Then its bye bye cars, home & 401k. Then bankruptcy.

                                                                          It was a great experience

                                                                          • 4 votes
                                                                          Reply#26 - Tue Aug 18, 2009 7:59 PM EDT
                                                                          Galina Bursoni

                                                                          Liberal, Have you ever heard of Dubai, Saudi Arabia, for examples? They are per capita about 1000 x richer than we are. We are soooo far from the richest country. Anyway, I heard on the Today Show this morning that Americans are worried their tax money will be used to pay for abortions. Hello? Has anyone ever heard of Medicaid? Medicaid has been paying for abortions since 1965. It is funded with tax dollars. Dr. James Dobson has been railing against it since the inception; and, a medicaid abortion cost $1500.00 vs a private one for $250.00. These figures were for 20 years ago so no telling what tax dollars pay for abortions today. Govt run health programs waste millions of dollars. Before my mother died, she was on Medicare. Every time a doctor stuck his head in her room and said, "How are we today?", he charged Medicare $250.00. When my mother fell and the nursing home moved her to the hospital, Medicare was charged $500.00 for the ride plus many many unnecessary expenses. Two days before she died her Medicare paid time in the hospital ran out. The nurses unplugged her from life support and told us to transport her home. At that point, she was allowed to die in peace. Anyone with a loved one on Medicare can see the millions of dollars in wasted expenses. Doctors who recommended that we bring her to their offices to discuss changing her meds...$90.00 co pay and more charges to Medicare. Please deliver me from having to be on such a plan. Could we maybe consider denying emergency care to non-citizens who are living her illegally. They could use clinics where health care professions provide services at reduced rates. Why can't we donate unused medications to these clinics? That doesn't seem to be allowed in this country. We tried to find a place to donate all of my mothers unused, never opened Rx and could not find a place. So much waste throughout the system. When I visit foreign countries, I have to pay out of pocket for my care; it isn't free anywhere but here, as far as I know.

                                                                            #26.1 - Wed Aug 19, 2009 8:57 AM EDT
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