Newsvine
  • Welcome
  • Help
  • Report Bug
  • Conversation Tracker
  • Your Column
  • Replies
  • Friends
Type Comments Since You Last CheckedArticle Source Last Checked Stop Tracking All Clear Tracking All
Advertise | AdChoices
Log In | Register
Close the Login Panel
Existing users log in below. New users please register for a free account.

New Users:

Existing Users:

E-Mail:
Password:
Forgot Password?
Please enter the e-mail address or domain name you registered with:
E-Mail/Domain:
Back to Login
Log Out
  • Top News
  • Local News
  • World
  • U.S.
  • Sports
  • Politics
  • Tech
  • Entertainment
  • Science
  • Business
  • Health
  • Odd News
  • More
    • Arts
    • Education
    • Environment
    • Fashion
    • History
    • Home & Garden
    • Not News
    • Religion
    • Travel
What is Newsvine?

Updated continuously by citizens like you, Newsvine is an instant reflection of what the world is talking about at any given moment.

Get a Free Account
Help
Fun Stuff
  • Your Clippings
  • Leaderboard
  • E-Mail Alerts
  • Top of the Vine
  • Newsvine Live
  • Newsvine Archives
  • The Greenhouse
  • Recommended Articles
  • Wall of Vineness
Put a Seed Newsvine link on your own site

For Amish, recession is challenge, blessing

Tue Aug 18, 2009 6:44 PM EDT
business, technology, only-on-msnbc-com, recession, community, miller, factory, amish, elkhart, the-elkhart-project, jayco-rv
msnbc.com News — By Allison Linn

John Yoder uses an air nailer to assemble overhead cabinets for a travel trailer at the Jayco RV factory in Middlebury, Indiana on Friday, August 7, 2009. Jayco's production is about half of what it was a year ago and they've laid off about 600 employees. About half of their assembly work force, like Yoder, are Amish.

Advertise | AdChoices

— Middlebury, Ind. - The roar of power tools fills the air as workers jog across the cramped and busy floor of the Jayco recreational vehicle factory, hustling to complete the labor-intensive task of building a travel trailer.

The scene could resemble any U.S. factory save for one thing. Here, as at many RV makers and suppliers in Elkhart and neighboring LaGrange County, members of the local Amish community work side-by-side with the non-Amish, handling power tools, driving forklifts and operating machinery with a speed and comfort level that seem at odds with their traditional dress and long beards.

For decades, even as members of this Amish community in northern Indiana have tended to small family farms, sewed their own clothing and traveled by horse and buggy, economic necessity has forced an increasing number to make their living by working for the RV makers and suppliers that dominate the landscape, and economy, here.

An estimated 53 percent of the area’s Amish men under age 65 were working in factories as of 2002, according to Steven Nolt and Thomas J. Meyers, academics at nearby Goshen College who have written extensively about the Amish.

Now, a severe downturn in the RV industry has pushed hundreds of Amish people out of the factories, forcing some to pursue more traditional — but often less lucrative — work such as baking, woodworking, making jam and selling homegrown produce.

But despite the loss of jobs and income, many in the Amish community here say they see the recession as a blessing, because it has caused them to refocus on the key principles of their community: family and faith.

“I think maybe that’s what the good Lord’s trying to teach us,” said Cletus Lambright, whose business, Lambright Woodworking, has seen a big drop in demand for custom-made cabinets and other items. “Family values should never be pushed aside.”

In a community that tends toward large families, the lack of factory jobs also has brought some men back into home-based businesses, where they can be closer to their children and where their work is more ingrained in family life.

Factory work is “not conducive to the family life,” said Chris Miller, a deacon in the Amish church who also runs Creekside Bookstore, a Shipshewana business that caters primarily to the Amish. “It takes away from our values.”

The recession also is forcing many to rediscover a tradition of living simply and frugally, which some say had fallen away in recent years as people here grew used to the high salaries of factory work.

The signs of this economic shift abound. Around the two counties, residents say they have seen a dramatic increase in signs advertising things like eggs or produce, while longtime Amish business owners say they are fielding many questions from people seeking to start similar enterprises.

In the small town of Middlebury, a farmer’s market has sprung up featuring Amish and non-Amish vendors, while massive Shipshewana Auction and Flea Market nearby also is attracting more interest from Amish sellers.

Dean R. Miller, senior vice president at First State Bank in Middlebury, said he’s seeing more Amish entrepreneurs applying for business loans.

“The Amish families definitely aren’t ones to sit back and wait for something to happen,” he said.

Financial struggles
But even as more Amish people go into business for themselves, many here say that traditional Amish businesses also are suffering because of the recession. The downturn has crimped demand for items such as hand-made cabinets and metalwork and even has caused some longtime Amish businesses to lay off workers.

Experts say Amish businesses elsewhere in the country are suffering as well. There are an estimated 233,000 Amish people living in 27 states and the Canadian province of Ontario, according to the Young Center for Anabaptist and Pietist Studies at Elizabethtown College in Pennsylvania.

Some in the Amish community, which tends to eschew much modern technology, are now grappling with ways to boost business in a world that is increasingly dependent on e-mail and Web sites.

“We went from being order-takers to being marketers,” said Lambright, the furniture maker.

The drop in both home-based and factory work also has been hard for many Amish families, who like many other Americans are struggling to pay their mortgages, feed their children and provide for basic needs amid the worst recession in decades.

Some in this northern Indiana community, one of the nation’s largest Amish settlements, have even accepted unemployment benefits, a big step for a sect that traditionally has shunned public benefit programs such as Social Security and Medicare. The Amish community also has a tradition of helping each other with medical and other expenses, but that can be a challenge when so many families are struggling at once.

“I still think that one of the great assets that we have is that (we want) to help each other in hard times,” said Lambright. “I just don’t want to see that lost.”

Another hallmark of the community that seems to have served them well in this recession is an extremely strong work ethic.

“Of all the people that got laid off, I can’t think of one Amish person I know that is out of a job and is at a place where he doesn’t know what to do,” said Ray Troyer, a deacon in the Amish church who works at Yoder’s Hardware in Shipshewana.

Donuts and baseball bats
Wilbur Lehman has worked on and off in factories for years, most recently until he was laid off last November. Since the layoff, he has been making baseball bats in his wood shop and working to expand his wife’s small donut-making business.

Using his skills from factory work, he and his wife recently purchased and retrofitted a small RV, which they are using to make and sell the donuts at the flea market and other locations.

Lehman said he prefers working for himself because he can be his own boss, but he concedes the factory work offers a financial stability that his own businesses can’t. Still, in a community that values frugality, he thinks there has been a broader benefit to people earning less.

“In some ways it was good that the factory (work) went down because there was a lot of money spent freely,” he said.

His wife, Lizzie Lehman, says she has watched some struggle with the change in fortunes.

“Some people turned bitter,” she said. “We’d like to see it that they turned better (rather) than bitter.”

When the RV industry was roaring, Amish say workers could bring home between $50,000 and $100,000 from a factory job, far more than they might make farming or running a business.

With all that discretionary income, it became commonplace for many to hire non-Amish drivers to take them on shopping trips to Wal-Mart or other area stores. The relatively high wages of factory work also gave them enough financial flexibility to regularly eat out at restaurants, take vacations and even buy things, such as clothing, that they traditionally made at home.

Many of those workers have seen their fortunes change dramatically as the RV industry has fallen victim to the recession and credit crunch. Total RV shipments were down 55 percent for the first six months of 2009, compared with the first half of 2008, according to the Recreational Vehicle Industry Association.

The Jayco plant, one of several in the area that has a substantial Amish workforce, has been able to hire back about 120 workers this summer because of a seasonal increase in business. But the total work force is still just around 1,300 now, compared with a peak of about 2,400.

“We all tend to be too comfortable with the next paycheck and we all grow too fat,” said Harvey Bontrager, an Amish father of 10 who worked in the factories for 10 years before leaving more than 20 years ago to start his own flower and food business. “We failed to teach our children what the value of money is, and we let money govern us rather than us governing money.”

Miller, the owner of Creekside Bookstore in Shipshewana, said he has been seeing more young Amish women come in looking for material rather than ready-made clothes — a sign, he hopes, that some are rediscovering a simpler way of life that is key to the community.

“It brings us back to where our food and clothes and stuff comes from,” Miller said.

But even as he celebrates such changes, Miller concedes that the recession has hurt business at his store.

“It’s been tough, but then it’s been tough for everybody,” he said.

No longer able to rely on farming
The Amish community in Elkhart and LaGrange counties is unusual in that so many of its members have turned to factory work primarily in one industry, said Donald Kraybill, senior fellow at the Young Center for Anabaptist and Pietist Studies and an expert on Amish life.

But as farmland has grown more scarce and expensive, and their traditional farming methods have hampered their ability to compete, many Amish across the country have turned to other work.

These days, Kraybill estimates that more than half of Amish households nationwide receive their primary income from non-farm sources.  Some have gone to work for non-Amish people, whom they refer to as “English,” while others have started their own carpentry, welding and other cottage industries.

“It’s not like they’re insulated or isolated from the larger economy,” Kraybill said. “They are not self-sufficient. They’re buying and selling in the larger marketplace.”

Even as they’ve become more ingrained in the English business world, most Amish communities have held onto their faith-based traditions, including a conservative style of dress and a belief that education should stop at eighth grade.

Many Amish people are comfortable using technology such as power tools or riding lawn mowers when working for others, Kraybill said. They also have adapted some modern technology, such as telephones or propane-powered light fixtures, for their own businesses.

In addition, it’s very common to use non-Amish vehicles and drivers to take them to stores, faraway jobs or other places. But Kraybill said they generally shy away from owning things such as computers, and for the most part they will not use the conventional power grid.

Experts say that as the Amish community has become increasingly ingrained in the professional world outside of their community, it has inevitably affected their everyday lives.

“They’ve kept the boundary between their world and the English world, but they’ve changed the way they lived,” said Meyers, the Goshen College sociology professor, who has studied the Amish extensively.

But, Meyers said, the acceptance of new technology has come only after much reflection about what it will mean for their faith and family life.

“The Amish are constantly asking the question of what changes imply,” he said.

New ways of doing business
Now, some in the Elkhart and LaGrange county Amish community say even more change is necessary if they are to stay competitive.

Freeman Miller, who runs F&N Woodworking and heads up an Amish woodworking association, said he had around 20 new exhibitors show their furniture at an annual Amish exhibition this year, for a total of 87 vendors.

Hoping to drum up more wholesale business, he’s been trying to band the woodworkers together so they can offer all their chairs, tables and other furniture as a package.

Miller also is trying to figure out ways to better market Amish wood products in an increasingly Internet-connected world. Recently, he began working with a non-Amish sales team that is able to use modern technology he wouldn’t feel comfortable using himself. He’s even recommending that members of the community attend professional development lectures to improve their business acumen.

“Too many people want to go on with life the way we’ve always done it,” he said.

For some, business is booming
Although the recession has taken a toll on many Amish businesses, some are finding that business is booming despite the hard economic times. But that, too, presents its own challenges.

Recently, the owners of the Amish-run Rise 'n' Roll Bakery decided to sell their business to non-Amish investors so they could expand the food offerings and use electricity without sacrificing their own belief system.

The company has nearly doubled its staff, to about 22 employees, amid a crush of job applicants.

“It seems like we’ve had half of LaGrange and all of Elkhart County applying,” said Tom Hart, who ran a business driving vans for the Amish before agreeing to become the bakery’s general manager.

The owners of Ben’s Bakery, another area Amish business, also has seen business improve dramatically over the past year as demand for their cookies, pretzels and other goods has exploded. That’s allowed them to add about 10 workers.

Co-owner Elizabeth Miller, who runs the bakery with her husband, said she feels blessed to have had such success in these hard times. But she is hesitant to take much credit.

“It is up to the Lord,” she said.

  • Enjoy this article? Help vote it up the 'Vine.

Back To Top | Front Page

Published to:

  • Allison Linn's Column, All of Newsvine
  • Groups: The Elkhart Project
  • Regions: none
  • Public Discussion (34)
Steven R.

Always admired their work ethic. A lot of us could learn a thing or two from them.

  • 2 votes
Reply#1 - Tue Aug 18, 2009 10:15 PM EDT
iloveUHCDeleted
Mark-922896

Guess who buys their puppies?????? English....Fault the English for buying them. There are certainly more important things than puppies to worry about right now. What about the "cow mills" that we call farms?? Worse yet, we eat the cows. Shame on us; how could we? Think about that iloveUHC. The only reason we care about puppy mills is because dogs wag their tails and chase balls. I have, and love, dogs but wish for people to stop with the puppy mill thing. Put fish in a 10-gallon aquarium and call it ok? Make some sense.

  • 1 vote
#1.2 - Wed Aug 19, 2009 11:41 AM EDT
John-1071162

Yeah baby, when it comes to family only the most stout will provide. The Amish are that. And good cooks too!

    #1.3 - Sat Aug 29, 2009 11:36 AM EDT
    Reply
    Serendiphany

    Heartwarming, amazing people.You won't find a single Paris Hilton or Rush Limbaugh among them. Such a strong work ethic, not to be found amongst our Nintendo / NFL couch-potato champions. No telepastor has nor could ever deliver the example of Faith in action these people embody with their simple, yet powerful beliefs.

    You just won't see these people wasting their time writing spoon-fed talking points they don't understand on signs and going teabagging. They are just too smart for that. Maybe we could learn a thing or two from them.

    Hopefully Wal-Mart would even fail were they to come and try to crush these family businesses, just as Republicans woud find it hard to offshore their home-based businesses. May they both fail miserably should they try. It is said God helps those who help themselves. These people prove it.

      Reply#2 - Wed Aug 19, 2009 10:30 AM EDT
      Pryzlock

      I've had the pleasure of living in a Missouri Amish community for the past ten years, and have to say that no one will find a harder working people, or a more honest People. I am familiar with freeman Miller's work - F&N Woodworking - through an Amish business here in Missouri that I occasionally do some work for. Our home is nearly fully furnished with Amish made furniture which is definately heirloom quality. I buy most of my produce and dairy products from the Amish; they are all of the highest quality, and the pricing is outrageously fair. I've had the pleasure of being invited to Amish weddings, baptisms, school events, church services. I feel honored to be associated with such wonderful people.

      • 1 vote
      Reply#3 - Wed Aug 19, 2009 10:46 AM EDT
      Undescribable

      “I think maybe that’s what the good Lord’s trying to teach us,” said Cletus Lambright, whose business, Lambright Woodworking, has seen a big drop in demand for custom-made cabinets and other items. “Family values should never be pushed aside.”

      I concure even as a non Amish individual. So all the years of technological advances which where seen as the seeds of Satan are now appreciated? Great its about time these non tax paying Americans start pullin some weight.

      An estimated 53 percent of the area’s Amish men under age 65 were working in factories as of 2002, according to Steven Nolt and Thomas J. Meyers, academics at nearby Goshen College who have written extensively about the Amish.

      I would like to call that underbidding the job market driving down living wages for the non-Amish, However if your Amish In the Amish Community you sure have a Union Mob Mentality Without the Dues.

      Factory work is “not conducive to the family life,” said Chris Miller, a deacon in the Amish church who also runs Creekside Bookstore, a Shipshewana business that caters primarily to the Amish. “It takes away from our values.”

      Welcome to the Real World Mr. Miller, It's the Work More for Less inspired Inflation by Corporate WTO henchemen that don't want any family values but Company Profit Values, If your not Contributing then your dead weight and like a tumor needs to be cu.. When I think of the Word Conservative I tend to think of these folks' but like with time everything seems to change.

        Reply#4 - Wed Aug 19, 2009 10:47 AM EDT
        Laura-261470

        How does taking factory jobs translate into "driving down living wages for the non-Amish"? Sounds like they weren't being paid minimum wage either.

        And the Amish DO pay taxes -- federal, state, and local income taxes, real estate taxes, sales tax -- just like anyone else. The only tax they don't pay, if they don't work for an "English" business, is social security tax, and that is because they won't take SS payments.

        For further information about the Amish, see

        http://www.amishillinois.com/amish/faq.htm

        I do find it very odd, though, that the Amish would take normal jobs in American industries. They are supposed to be "in the world, but not of the world," which means keeping their own values and staying separate from other groups. I would think they would just move, rather than doing factory jobs involving lots of power equipment, etc.

        They also have traditionally followed the New Testament admonition "Be ye not equally yoked together with unbelievers," which has translated into self reliance, such as depending on each other instead of getting insurance from outside companies. Working for a business with "English" management and coworkers sure sounds like being equally yoked to me. I guess it gets harder and harder to stay in the 18th century as the world changes around them.

          #4.1 - Wed Aug 19, 2009 11:45 AM EDT
          Mark-922896

          Research the tax issue before assuming. My Amish friends (and neighbors) do pay taxes. They are exempt from medicare and unemployment but pay everything else. They do not accept the benefits from either one of the above so should not have to pay. They pay school taxes and school their own. Maybe they should complain more than you; but they don't. They accept it and move on, generally happier than any of us. Good for them. I hope they continue to prosper.

          • 2 votes
          #4.2 - Wed Aug 19, 2009 11:47 AM EDT
          John-1071162

          Hey there "Undescribale' as is your moniker. A silver dollar on that you have no idea. When have you addressed unemployment as a reality? The Amish do not know what it is because they, as I think, are survivors.

            #4.3 - Sat Aug 29, 2009 12:05 PM EDT
            Reply
            Carol Ann-2461951

            My daughter said just the other day that things have gotten skewed in America. Her tithe was going to build an eight million dollar church and her taxes were going to feed the poor.

            Looks like we all can take a lesson from the Amish.

            I'm reminded of a Willie Nelson tune about Lukenback, Texas..."maybe it's time we got back to the basics of life".

            • 1 vote
            Reply#5 - Wed Aug 19, 2009 11:00 AM EDT
            Laura-261470

            Yeah, I've often wondered what justifies churches not being taxable. Should I tithe to a church so that it can have a beautiful building and well-paid pastor or just give my money directly to a soup kitchen? A church is just a building, after all.

            • 1 vote
            #5.1 - Wed Aug 19, 2009 11:52 AM EDT
            John-1071162

            Where is 'Lukenback'? I've been to Wichita Falls but always wanted to go to Lukenback. Where is it? Please tell me Carol Ann2461951.

            • 1 vote
            #5.2 - Sat Aug 29, 2009 11:45 AM EDT
            Reply
            Pryzlock

            It's a shame that some commenters here are so uninformed or MISinformed. The Amish DO pay taxes - just like all of us. They even have to pay "school taxes" when they have their own schools and teachers and get absolutely no support from the state.

              Reply#6 - Wed Aug 19, 2009 11:02 AM EDT
              Undescribable

              Finance
              The Amish, particularly those of Lancaster County, are often perceived to be wealthy. If this perception is true, it is not because of income, for income in hard cash is low. Most of a family's net worth is in real estate, and a lot of that wealth has been created by rising real estate values. If you also consider that an Amish family does not spend as much on food, clothing, entertainment, transportation and gadgets, a small income goes a long way. The Amish do not borrow, and therefore pay no interest. They also farm with less equipment. Cash and barter are used as much as possible.

              How does an Amish family buy a farm, handle loss or cover unexpected expenses? Family and community are the bank and the insurance company. All community members are expected to contribute a share of their income to the "community pot." Likewise, it is the duty of all to lend assistance to those in need. A young couple is not expected to be able to buy a farm. It will be purchased for them with assistance from family and community.

              A growing population and escalating real estate prices have put a strain on Amish finances, yet they have managed to cope and continue to prosper.

              Amish Education

              Many Amish communities provide parochial schools for their children. A local farmer or other landowner will donate land for a school house and the community will assist in building it. Most of the schools are governed by a local school board made up of parents of the children in attendance at that school. They take turns serving on the board. The board deals with issues such as providing remedial work for students who are learning disabled or mentally challenged. They step in to apply discipline to problems as they arise. They set salaries for the teachers and manage the other financial affairs of the school.

              Many of the Amish school teachers are young women who are just a few years out of school themselves. They take turns serving as a teacher for a few years before marrying. Some of them do well but it is a difficult challenge for others. Finding capable teachers for the school is one of the bigger challenges of the school board. In some cases a local mother will have to add teaching to her list of responsibilities until they can find an older girl to serve in that capacity. In some communities, a man will take the responsibility of educating the children but it is unusual.

              In some areas, parochial schools aren't available and the students are sent to public schools. This presents a challenge for some of the children since they only speak Pennsylvania Dutch in their homes. In Holmes County there are many Amish children in the East Holmes school district, especially around Berlin

              (google)

              I will not frown on honest hard work ethics, I will frown on subsidized ignorance this just emphasizes the socialistic nature of these hard workers.

                #6.1 - Wed Aug 19, 2009 11:29 AM EDT
                Reply
                iloveUHCDeleted
                Spunkholio

                enough Elkhart already!!

                  Reply#8 - Wed Aug 19, 2009 11:36 AM EDT
                  Patty Aarons

                  Better The Amish should be earning a living working in factories than breeding dogs ala "PUPPY MILL": in deplorable envoironments with zero socialization, taking the pups from their sad mothers way too soon and selling them to people who THINK they are getting a grand bagin from so called "christian" minded simple folk. We have one of these poor beasts and wonder if she will ever trust a human - especially men - again. Shun these Amish Puppy Mills!! If you don't buy, THEY won't breed.

                    Reply#9 - Wed Aug 19, 2009 11:43 AM EDT
                    Laura-261470

                    I agree that Amish puppy mills are bad, but you seem to be assuming that every Amish family raises puppies for sale and that there are no non-Amish puppy mills. There is a lot more to the Amish than last week's news.

                      #9.1 - Wed Aug 19, 2009 1:56 PM EDT
                      Patty Aarons

                      Laura ~~ I am well aware that there are MANY other Puppy Mills other than those operated by certain Amish. I comment about the Amish because that was the subject of the article AND because people are largely unaware that this perceived kindly, "christian" sect would/could do such a thing. Not all Amish are guilty of this cruelty to dogs, either. I just think the public NEEDS to be more aware of the existance of Amish Puppy Mills and cease to support them.

                        #9.2 - Wed Aug 19, 2009 3:57 PM EDT
                        Reply
                        Pryzlock

                        First of all, the article was talking about Indiana Amish, not Lancaster, PA - every state differs, as does each Amish community.

                        As for iloveUHC and his/her comment about puppy mills ........ some things are best left unsaid!! If they (dog/ cat? horse? mule?) get a disease, they (Amish) let them die? "These people?" Seems he/she knows all the Amish in the U.S. - or purports to. A very inane, ludicrous comment. Someone needs a reality check. You need better and more accurate information - or is your comment something you made up simply to have something to say here? When we got our Rat Terrier from the Amish, she had all her shots and was in perfect health - that was five years ago. I suppose the morals and ethics of our community Amish have a somewhat higher level than the Amish where you live? Do you live with or among the Amish, or in some steamy city?

                        • 1 vote
                        Reply#10 - Wed Aug 19, 2009 11:47 AM EDT
                        Thinking clearly

                        I was born and raised in Lancaster County, leaving only to attend graduate school in another state.

                        I've visited infrequently since.

                        I am astonished at the changes within the Plain folk - Amish. Mennonite, etc - I grew up observing. (My mother was a Plain woman who converted to Catholicism to marry my father.)

                        I KNEW and deeply appreciated the Amish way of life. Their neighborliness unlike any I've witnessed before or since. Their determination to live a simple, Christ-directed life.

                        The only source of actual money were sales at unique "farmer's markets". The best in meats, produce, bread, cheese, jams, clothing and bedding at very reasonable prices.

                        And every product they sold was "natural", and "organic" purposely. They wasted nothing - even waste!

                        They used no energy but that in firewood, homemade candles and horse/oxen powering their fields.

                        Horses pulled their sole means of conveyance, the buggy.

                        My, my, my how times seem to have changed!!

                        At least in Northern Indiana, that has changed DRAMATICALLY!

                        Manufacturing in factories!! Making RVs!! Using all sorts of technology!!

                        The Amish life had been so "standardized" in the past that they were required to school their children only through age 13, when they knew enough to work their farms.

                        One of the saddest developments, when a centuries-long religious lifestyle gives way to economic considerations.

                          Reply#11 - Wed Aug 19, 2009 11:51 AM EDT
                          Mark-922896

                          I agree and can tell you that not all are falling into this. Many of the Amish here in Indiana and Jefferson Counties in Pennsylvania still will not use power tools or other "modern" equipment. My kitchen cabinets were made by hand with no power tools and are twice the quality of what can be purchased at lowes for half the price. Fortunately, not all of the Amish are "giving in".

                            #11.1 - Wed Aug 19, 2009 12:01 PM EDT
                            Reply
                            Pryzlock

                            Ah, I see we have a few PETA members here ... everyone is an authority on the Amish. This reminds me of fantasy football. :-) Get real people - do a little reading about and living with the Amish before you make condemnations about issues you know nothing about.

                            • 1 vote
                            Reply#12 - Wed Aug 19, 2009 11:58 AM EDT
                            Patty Aarons

                            Better The Amish should be working in factories to make a living than breeding dogs ala "Puppy Mill" - abused dogs living in deplorable conditions, with the puppies having zero socialization, taken from their overbred mothers at a way too young age -to sell to ignorant people thinking they are getting a great deal from "christian" minded simple folk. We have one of these rescued dogs and have our doubts that she will EVER trust a human again - especially men. SHUN these Amish Puppy Mills. If you don't buy, THEY won't breed!!!

                              Reply#13 - Wed Aug 19, 2009 12:07 PM EDT
                              lovetheamishway

                              I live in the south and frequently visit the Amish settlement in Tennessee. They have, by no means changed their way of living. Each house has signs telling you what they have to offer for sale. You can find anything from fresh bread to handcrafted furniture. I have 3 bedroom suites, a dining room suite and just recently purchased my son and his future wife a dining room suite for a fraction of the price that furniture stores get for their partical board. All was made without power tools and will be here long after I am gone. It is so peaceful and relaxing to visit. We have gotten to know most of the families, they enjoy asking us questions just as we do asking them. We place orders for furniture and can't wait to get our snail mail to tell us when it is ready. If you haven't every been to a true Amish community, try going to Ethridge TN, they are true Amish. And, yes, they do pay taxes.

                              • 1 vote
                              Reply#14 - Wed Aug 19, 2009 1:01 PM EDT
                              shepherd0886

                              With only a few exceptions most of the comments thus far represent only a misguided perception held about the Amish. These same sorts of 'perceptions' are often applied to those of the Jewish faith, the Morman faith, as well as many other religious, racial, and/or social sects or ethnic groups. One of the greatest weakness of the human species is our tendency to distrust and even come to despise that which we do not understand or which differs from us in a substantial way.

                              Such fear and distrust is not born within us. Very small children in a day care or preschool environment are often seen playing quite happily together and cooperating in little projects regardless of their race, religion, or ethnic background. At that point the kid next to them is just another kid like they are with the same hopes, dreams, and problems in life. However as they move through kindergarden and into elementary schools we begin to see the first signs of societal segregation. By adulthood these children have divided like biological cells into a miriad of different political, social, religious, and ethnic groups. Just as in biology some of these cells deviate and become malignant and we have wars over religious, political, or ethnic differences.

                              One of the few good things about growing old is having had the opportunity to know and experience many different things in my life. I have known, worked with, respected, and even on occasion grown to love people from a variety of socio-political backgrounds. In some cases a few of these groups were cause for fear and distrust in my youth because my friends and family feared and distrusted them. Only after I got to know them and understand who they were, what they were, and how they got that way did I come to realize that they were absolutely no different than I.

                              In my few encounters with the Amish community I have found them to be a gentle supremely honest, hard working people with a pronounced distrust for much of the trappings of modern society. However they are also intelligent enough to know that to survive it is sometimes necessary to make small concessions along the way such as using powered equipment to increase production. They tend to be a bit shy and reclusive and do not try and overwhelm you with their beliefs or life style. Even among their own they permit brief excursions into the 'outside world' because they want their members to choose their ways voluntarily. As a group they not only talk the talk but walk the walk unlike most of our modern day hypocritical socio-political and religious orders. I also discovered that once you earn their trust and respect as a person they treat you almost as if you are one of their own even though you may be of another religion or ethnic group.

                              I have often thought that should the human race ever confront an Armageddon like event and all that is our modern world is reduced to utter shambles the Amish, the Mennonites, the Quakers, the Dorights, and others like them hold in their hands the keys to the survival of our species. They have managed to respect and hold onto the knowledge and skills that will be essential to restore some sense of normalcy and order and begin the process of rebuilding our world. I admire and respect these folks very much for their honesty, integrity, and unswerving devotion to their families, their group, and their religious beliefs. I love them because they are unassuming, non-threateneing, and willingly share their knowledge and skills with anyone who respectfully asks.

                              Perhaps I am odd but I do not blindly hold to any one set of beliefs, tenets, or social mandates just so that I may feel that I belong. My preference is to choose the best of all that I see and try and apply it to my life. I do my best to adhere to the Golden Rule and I try to judge not lest I be judged. I worry not about the stye in someone else's eye but focus on the log in my own. My philosophy is to come to know and understand that which I fear and my fear will be diminished and in so doing I may even find a friend for life. I also believe that life is a series of choices and the choices we make along the way all have consequences and what ever those consequences are will be ours to bear for good or for evil from that day forward.

                              Yes life is a test comprised of multiple choice and essay type questions and each day represents a new page of the test. How well we do depends upon the amount of thought and effort we put into it. However, unlike a conventional test, once you mark your answer and turn the page it is very difficult to go back and change it should you rethink it later so you must consider every question very carefully before you choose your answer. Like the old saying "It is usually a good idea to engage one's brain before putting the mouth in gear."

                                Reply#15 - Wed Aug 19, 2009 5:07 PM EDT
                                b-1218385

                                The Amish have the largest puppy mills in the state of Indiana. They literally make millions on the puppy trade in our state.  I don't think a lot people know when they go into Uncle Bill's or other "pet stores" just how many hundreds of breeding females are being kept at a single Amish farm or that these dogs have spent their entire lives in a crate doing nothing but having puppies until their bodies give out and they die.  Our legislation is not good but at least got a little stronger this year.  There is much left to do. 

                                • 1 vote
                                Reply#16 - Wed Aug 19, 2009 5:24 PM EDT
                                Kat-888818

                                I'm 65 and my first roommate in college at Michigan State University was Mennonite.  Many don't know the destinctions between the Mennonites and the Amish.  Her father flew a private plane back and forth from Indiana so she would not take public transportation.  But she was a truly sweet young lady. 

                                Growing up in areas where Amish were common, I got to know many.  Recently I've returned to the MidWest from SoCal and enjoy seeing the Amish (often in buggies) at the Farmer's Markets and in the stores.  They are peaceful, hardworking people, but many have adapted to a more modern lifestyle.  As someone else stated, we all tend to generalize when it comes to religions/cultures which are not the same as ours.

                                Yes, there are puppy mills.  I am the founder and president of a breed-specific dog rescue group and we deal with backyard breeders and puppy mills every day.  But then you also have the Hunt Corporation and corporations like one well-known pet store.  They are no less to blame.  And I'm finding in my current location (notorious for puppy mills) it is largely meth labs that hide themselves in puppy mills --- NOT the Amish.  Nobody seems to think much of the fact that many of these puppy mills are operated by druggies brewing meth in their backyards.

                                I'll support any group that works hard and supports itself.  You don't see the Amish on welfare or using food stamps.  The ones I've stood behind when picking up meds at the pharmacy have paid with cash. 

                                I have said for years that the pendulum needed to correct itself and I think that's what has happened.  Notice all the people growing home gardens this year?  Suddenly conserving on everything from fuel to power usage?  It's about time we got back to some of the values that made this country great --- just as the original settlers and pioneers did, we must support and help each other.  Churches used to do much of what we now expect the government to handle.  Perhaps if we returned to that way of life we would all be healthier and happier.

                                Perhaps if we followed a plainer style of living life would be easier for everyone.

                                  Reply#17 - Wed Aug 19, 2009 8:07 PM EDT
                                  Phil Johnson

                                  I really get tired of people putting the Amish on some sort of pedistal. Having worked with them or for them for the past 5 years I have come to the realization that Amish aren't any better or worse than anyone else. There are crooks, drunks, liars, and cheats amongst the Amish just like any one else. I can admire their strong sense of community and their willing to help out their fellow Amish in time of need. But I don't think they should be given a free pass.

                                    Reply#18 - Thu Aug 20, 2009 12:33 AM EDT
                                    Pryzlock

                                    Phil Johnson - a free pass for WHAT? And BTW, what is a ped(i)stal. I would seem that maybe you need to consider going to an Amish school and learn how to spell in your native language (English?)

                                      Reply#19 - Thu Aug 20, 2009 7:15 AM EDT
                                      breelaboyDeleted
                                      Leave a Comment:
                                      You're in Easy Mode. If you prefer, you can use XHTML Mode instead.
                                      You're in XHTML Mode. If you prefer, you can use Easy Mode instead.
                                      (XHTML tags allowed - a,b,blockquote,br,code,dd,dl,dt,del,em,h2,h3,h4,i,ins,li,ol,p,pre,q,strong,ul)
                                      Newsvine Privacy Statement
                                      As a new user, you may notice a few temporary content restrictions. Click here for more info.
                                      FUN STUFF:
                                      • Leaderboard |
                                      • E-Mail Alerts |
                                      • Top of the Vine |
                                      • Newsvine Live |
                                      • Newsvine Archives |
                                      • The Greenhouse
                                      COMPANY STUFF:
                                      • Code of Honor |
                                      • Company Info |
                                      • Contact Us |
                                      • Jobs |
                                      • User Agreement |
                                      • Privacy Policy |
                                      • About our ads
                                      LEGAL STUFF:
                                      • © 2005-2012 Newsvine, Inc. |
                                      • Newsvine® is a registered trademark of Newsvine, Inc. |
                                      • Newsvine is a property of msnbc.com