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'Clunker' appliance plan short on details

Wed Sep 23, 2009 7:08 PM EDT
business, only-on-msnbc-com, program, appliances, recycling, retailers, appliance, rebate, retail-, trade-in, dte-energy, detroit-edison, bill-puglianogetty, jaco-environmental
msnbc.com News — By Eve Tahmincioglu
< PreviousNext >
showing 1 of 2 photos
<p>LIVONIA, MI - AUGUST 12: A JACO Environmental worker recycles an old refrigerator at JACO Environmental, a new recycling plant August 12, 2009 in Livonia, Michigan. DTE Energy collected more than 1000 refrigerators from its Detroit Edison customers by offering them $50 to turn in their older model energy-inefficient refrigerators and freezers as part of their new Cash-For Clunkers Appliance Program. (Photo by Bill Pugliano/Getty Images)</p>

LIVONIA, MI - AUGUST 12: A JACO Environmental worker recycles an old refrigerator at JACO Environmental, a new recycling plant August 12, 2009 in Livonia, Michigan. DTE Energy collected more than 1000 refrigerators from its Detroit Edison customers by offering them $50 to turn in their older model energy-inefficient refrigerators and freezers as part of their new Cash-For Clunkers Appliance Program. (Photo by Bill Pugliano/Getty Images)

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— Call it the “Cash for Kitchen (and laundry room) Clunkers” program.

If you have an old energy-guzzling refrigerator, air conditioner or washing machine you’d love to replace, it may be a good idea to wait until November when a cash-for-clunkers type program for home appliances begins to roll out across the country.

The rebate program, part of the government's $787 billion economic stimulus package, provides $300 million in federal funds to encourage consumers to buy energy-efficient appliances.

But it is unclear how much the appliance program will save in terms of energy consumption — and whether these appliances will be recycled or just end up in a landfill.

And unlike the hugely successful $3 billion “Cash for Clunkers” vehicle trade-in program, the appliance rebates will be handed out under a hodgepodge of plans implemented by individual states, with the money divvied up according to each state's population.

Consumers will be eligible for a rebate only if they buy products that meet federal Energy Star qualifications for appliance efficiency. Rebates under the program could range from $50 to $250, depending on the type of appliance.

States have until mid-October to come up with their own plans for how the rebate programs  will work, what appliances will be included, how much will be paid out and even how to dispose of the "clunkers."

While there is no recycling requirement, the Department of Energy “is encouraging states and territories to include appliance-recycling programs along with the rebate programs to help remove inefficient products from the electric grid,” said Jen Stutsman, a spokeswoman for the department.

The Obama administration sees the program as a way to boost the economy and the environment at the same time.

“These rebates will help families make the transition to more efficient appliances, making purchases that will directly stimulate the economy and create jobs,” said the Energy Secretary Steven Chu when he announced the plan in July. “Appliances consume a huge amount of our electricity, so there’s enormous potential to both save energy and save families money every month.”

That is, of course, if you get rid of that old, energy-consuming refrigerator and not just move it to the basement and store beer in it.

What to do with old appliances?
Ronnie Kweller, a spokeswoman for the Alliance to Save Energy, is encouraging states to incorporate some sort of trade-in option. But, she added, “even in the absence of requirements in individual states that the old, inefficient appliances be recycled and taken off the grid, we encourage consumers to do that and not simply add to the utility load.”

It’s unclear whether consumers will step up to the plate and find ways to recycle big appliances. Many probably hope the process will be handled by the retailer from which they buy their new appliance.

Andrea Lechner-Becker, a marketing manager for an art studio who moved into a new condo in Phoenix last year, plans on buying a new washer and dryer to replace her old ones when the rebate program kicks into gear.

“We need some sort of incentive” to make the purchase, she said. But as for disposing of the old appliance, “I would definitely want the retailer to take the old stuff. I would be annoyed if they charged me for that.”

Most retailers do offer to cart off old, large appliances for free, said Maureen Riehl, a spokeswoman for the National Retail Federation. But how recycling will be handled under the new program, which is likely to inundate the system with lots of old appliances, hasn’t been worked out yet.

“What each state department of energy or corresponding environmental department will do is all in wait-and-see mode,” she said.

That leaves it up to a patchwork of environmental laws that rarely mandate recycling of household appliances other than computers and televisions, said Scott Cassel, executive director of Product Stewardship Institute, a nonprofit that focuses on waste management issues related to consumer products.

Many states are facing budget shortfalls, and Cassel said local governments could be stuck with the cost of disposing or recycling old appliances.

He fears most will end up in landfills or incinerators "because the cost of recycling is most likely higher than the cost of trash disposal.”

Officials in New York state, which is receiving $18.7 million under the program, are studying whether to require a trade-in component or recycling, said Colleen Ryan, a spokeswoman for the New York Energy Research and Development Authority.

California, which is getting $35 million of the funds, also has yet to commit.

“We are considering the recycling component as part of the program, depending on which appliances are chosen,” said Susanne Garfield-Jones, a spokeswoman for the California Energy Commission. “Staff have been speaking not only to the utilities but the manufacturing groups, manufacturers and retailers to see what could be offered.”

Retailers that operate nationally could face a daunting task of figuring out what’s offered in which states.

But Doug Moore, president of appliances for Sears Holdings Corp., said the retailer is ready.

“Whatever states end up doing, we will assist them and make that happen,” he said. The company, he added, will use an online database and offer consumers quick access to what’s available in their states through a ZIP code-based lookup.

Environmental impact
As far as disposal of old appliances, he said, Sears, which also operates Kmart stores, already partners with the EPA and offers a voluntary program, known as RAD, that removes ozone-depleting chemicals from appliances such as refrigerators and air conditioners.

The company hauls away almost 75 percent of the old appliances, often for free, for the 6 million new appliances the retailer sells each year.

While it’s unclear what impact the plan will have on the environment, industry experts hope it will be a boon for appliance makers, retailers, consumers and the economy.

The retail federation’s Riehl predicted the rebate program could boost sales for some retailers by 30 percent. But she pointed out that retailers may end up spending some money on paperwork if the process is cumbersome. “A lot is going to be left in the details,” she added.

Scott Testa, a professor of business administration at Cabrini College in Philadelphia, believes the program will attract the interest of shoppers. “It will stimulate manufacturing jobs and retail jobs, which have been hit hard,” he said.

And Sears’ Moore isn’t worried that consumers will delay appliance purchases until the rebates kick in.

“More than half of customers replace products that have failed,” he said. Appliances, he added, are not like car or TV purchases that might be deferred. “You can’t wait 10 days to do the laundry.”

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Jump to discussion page: 1 2 3 4
wade-752900

And how many of these appliances are made in the USA. Most likely none so who are we helping? I think its workers in other countries. What's wrong with our government ? We need good paying jobs in this country and all they want to do is help foreign countries and there workers.

  • 17 votes
#1 - Wed Sep 23, 2009 10:09 PM EDT
George-1234Deleted
snake09

Maybe I can finally get rid of that microwave in my kitchen that dims every power source in the house every time I use it.

  • 1 vote
#1.2 - Thu Sep 24, 2009 10:10 AM EDT
ToxicChemist

Another government program that hasn't been "thought through"......what a surprise.

  • 17 votes
#1.3 - Thu Sep 24, 2009 10:29 AM EDT
stull

But it is unclear how much the appliance program will save in terms of energy consumption — and whether these appliances will be recycled or just end up in a landfill.

That's great! Another well thought out program. I'll keep my appliances they work. Fifty-$250.00 rebate isn't worth it. I'd rather keep my money for something that is more important than shiny new appliances.

  • 9 votes
#1.4 - Thu Sep 24, 2009 10:29 AM EDT
dewintre200

$100 says this program will be a screw up like everything else that hasn't gone to plan this year.

We'd save more money long term with a cash-for-illegal-aliens program.

  • 18 votes
#1.5 - Thu Sep 24, 2009 10:36 AM EDT
314159

How about a Cash for Representative program - in 2010 vote your representative out and maybe we can get a refund on all the nonsense legislation they stuffed down our throats without even reading it.

  • 13 votes
#1.6 - Thu Sep 24, 2009 10:41 AM EDT
justice fleeting

How about a Replace the US Congress Clunker Program to replace old, worn out, blow- hards with more efficient, cost effective Congressional Representatives and Senators. Now that would be a Program US Tax Payers could get behind and support.

  • 26 votes
#1.7 - Thu Sep 24, 2009 10:42 AM EDT
314159

I only wish we could extend it to the Administration as well...

  • 8 votes
#1.8 - Thu Sep 24, 2009 10:46 AM EDT
hobo-560823

GE is big Sponsor of Obama. They also own this state run media to. So you know that Obama has to help pay these people back that help elect them. If you decide to take this (SO CALLED FREE) money make sure you set aside money to pay taxes on it . Live the cash for clunkers you will have to pay taxes on it. Sorry Obama forgot to tell you that part. The state of Wisconsin sent letters out to all to let them know they will have to pay taxes on cash for clunkers.

Do not forget also how much more you are going to have to pay in taxes also because landfills will fill up much faster as well. Do not forget how much it will also cost you to dispose of your old one as well.

  • 13 votes
#1.9 - Thu Sep 24, 2009 10:47 AM EDT
Last

While these may sound good to some people it is not the same deal as the cash for clunkers. This is is a rebate plan which the buyer has to apply for and the buyer pays the full price upfront. So, if you can't afford new appliances you can kiss it goodbye right now.

While buying new appliances for energy consumption reduction is great the same goes here that went with cars. If you have old appliances it is probably because you just can't afford to run out and spent $1000 for a refrigerator right now. Most people wait till theirs die to buy new and this isn't going to induce many to run right out and buy new ones when people are struggling with unemployment and even appliances stores are closing. No matter how much new ones offset your electric or gas bill - there's that initial expense to consider.

These programs are desperate measures the government is trying to drum up business. Just like their unorthodox spending on the stock market since March to try to generate confidence in lousy management they've showned by buying up their own debt to push Bonds higher. That's why the stock market will crash again because it will become common knowledge - look it up "Permanent Open Market Operations"

  • 4 votes
#1.10 - Thu Sep 24, 2009 10:51 AM EDT
cpw777

I like THAT idea! I don't care if they give me a rebate for the full price, I will not buy. I am not going to ask my neighbors, nor any other tax payer to pay for my new appliances, and believe me, I need them! But not this way. Another hair-brained idea from the wealth redistribution administration.

  • 7 votes
#1.11 - Thu Sep 24, 2009 10:51 AM EDT
cpw777

I like THAT idea! I don't care if they give me a rebate for the full price, I will not buy. I am not going to ask my neighbors, nor any other tax payer to pay for my new appliances, and believe me, I need them! But not this way. Another hair-brained idea from the wealth redistribution administration.

  • 4 votes
#1.12 - Thu Sep 24, 2009 10:52 AM EDT
maddog-752810

"The rebate program, part of the government's $787 billion economic stimulus package, provides $300 million in federal funds to encourage consumers to buy energy-efficient appliances."

They have to be kidding. Exactly how is this going to benefit all the people who are out of work with little prospects for job creation. Again, only a few will benefit from this program. most likely those who don't need it. This administration seems to be getting sillier all the time. What's next, a clunker lawnmower plan? If this government can't think of a better way to squander $300 million then the future isn't looking any brighter.

  • 4 votes
#1.13 - Thu Sep 24, 2009 10:54 AM EDT
american vet

Yea, spend 3 billion to save 350 million in fuel?? Smart, real smart.

NOW THE BOMBSHELL!!! I don't know if the following statement is true, but, if it is it should be an IMPEACHABLE OFFENCE. The email I received yesterday regarding the closed CHRYSLER DEALERSHIPS that include one in My home town. In that email, it stated that of the 789 chrysler dealerships closed ONLY ONE CONTRIBUTED TO OBAMA!! ( and that one gave $200.00) If this is true it is DISGRACEFUL AND ILLEGAL!! The dealerships kept open had direct ties to OBAMA. More to follow!

  • 9 votes
#1.14 - Thu Sep 24, 2009 10:57 AM EDT
John-385319Deleted
Darthfrodo

I hope it's for ovens, I need a new oven.

  • 2 votes
#1.16 - Thu Sep 24, 2009 11:54 AM EDT
Chris Kurz

Good luck getting the refund check in a timely manner. From the dealers I have spoken to, they have no idea when they will be paid for the "Cash for Clunkers"!

What a freaking joke! Just keep bribing Americans to spend them selves into debt? Good luck stimulating an economy more than a few weeks with that! I wonder how many cars are flying off the lots this month?

Whats next cash for homes? Government will take over your home loan and let you rent it from them? Oh wait that is already being discussed! Nothing like Uncle "Slumlord" Sam being your supper! Can you say "Government Housing"?

  • 4 votes
#1.17 - Thu Sep 24, 2009 11:55 AM EDT
midwesterner-742861

All of these economic incentive programs are merely an attempt to transfer private debt to public debt which is an advancement of socialistic control!!! This has nothing to do with stimulating the economy it's all about government control of the citizenry!!

  • 4 votes
#1.18 - Thu Sep 24, 2009 12:20 PM EDT
ipaymytaxesandbills

Justice Fleeting - Good one! Get rid of the blowhards due to excessive hot air emmissions which are contributing to global warming! LMAO!

  • 2 votes
#1.19 - Thu Sep 24, 2009 12:24 PM EDT
Greg-281912

I'm thinking a new hair-dryer myself. And a really nice flashlight.

And, darn it, as much as I hate to do this, I need to trade in my 8-track player for one of those new-fangled things that plays casette tapes.

Anyone looking for a great set of 8-Tracks INCLUDING Steppenwolf Live?

  • 4 votes
#1.20 - Thu Sep 24, 2009 1:55 PM EDT
galaxyJ

From what I know of the appliance industry (someone who works in the industry said this), most appliances are manufactured outside of the United States now. If that is true, how is that going to help American workers?

  • 3 votes
#1.21 - Thu Sep 24, 2009 2:38 PM EDT
jimmyjihad

"From what I know of the appliance industry (someone who works in the industry said this), most appliances are manufactured outside of the United States now. If that is true, how is that going to help American workers?"

Simple, appliances bought in American stores help the employees of that store.

Until American workers are willing to work for the wages of those in poor countries, there will be no new manufacturing jobs here at home.

Implement the "Fat Tax" on the obese to pay for healthcare.

Give healthy people a break, or does personal responsibility no longer exist?

  • 2 votes
#1.22 - Thu Sep 24, 2009 3:52 PM EDT
Where is America?-1111673

Just A Commentary...

The fundamentals of business certainly have been changed. So have the fundamentals of everyday living. All of the fundamentals are being changed. We're trading old light bulbs for light bulbs that have to be disposed of in a new way. Clunker cars are being destroyed instead of refurbished with new environmentally favorable attachments. IT'S mandatory. Where's the room for new Industry?

The madness keeps on coming. So all of these appliances will be destroyed too? Probably come-up with a program to make it illegal to donate your old appliances to the Salvation Army or Good Will. (The prices probably will go up at these thrift stores for old appliances... so get your trade-in now!) And there is no real end benefit?

Maybe (Before long) we will have to register all of our household appliances with the government and then report when we are not using them and to which agency we turned them in to. This will go with the new laws for taxing anything that you re-sell from your own household during a garage sale... that you are having to pay off your mounting debt and put food on the table. It may become illegal to give your old appliance to your hurting neighbor without first getting clearance from the new Federal Appliance Agency!

Okay... it's doomsday. But if you go to the town where Bill Gates lives you are recorded on video and your license plate is noted and run through the computer banks to see if you have any warrants. It also records your coming and going everyday so that your personal habits are monitored.

How about giving huge manufacturers a huge tax break for bringing jobs back to the United States? It can be called "The clunker manufacturers and jobs program".

This administration is going to go down as the "The Great Clunker Administration"!

George Orwell was right!

I've decided that I don't want to be fundamentally changed. It doesn't make sense!

2010.. please come faster!

  • 3 votes
#1.23 - Thu Sep 24, 2009 4:12 PM EDT
Gus-393033

This is just another program to divert our attention away from the other proposals that are going to stifle us and our families for years to come.

WE NEED TO BRING BACK THE JOBS TO AMERICA.

  • 1 vote
#1.24 - Thu Sep 24, 2009 4:44 PM EDT
Greg-281912

I'd just like to make a point concerning the "Car Clunker" program. During the program, I shoped around considerably, but just couldn't find the model I wanted (not the right color, didn't need the navigation system, etc.)

But, I continued to shop, as I will be buying a new car at some point. I am totally shocked at sticker prices now. Cars are running about 5K more now than in August!

I think the dealers think that because they sold 770,000 cars in August, they can raise prices, but dealerships are pretty much deserted right now. (Beware....5 car salesmen with nothing to do are, well, 5 times worse than just 1 who is having a busy day....)

    #1.25 - Thu Sep 24, 2009 5:10 PM EDT
    Zach-815585

    First it was a bail out for the banking industry followed by cars and now appliances. Is there going to be one for musical instruments? I am keeping my fingers cross because I need a new saxophone. I better put my request in while the government is still happily spending.

    • 1 vote
    #1.26 - Thu Sep 24, 2009 7:38 PM EDT
    stull

    Until American workers are willing to work for the wages of those in poor countries, there will be no new manufacturing jobs here at home.

    Lets take ALL of our welfare recipients and put them to work in manufacturing factories. Why should they get to sit around on their lazy a$$es eating bon bons, having babies and watching daytime tv while the rest of us are out being responsible and working to pay our bills. They are living off of us for free put them to work!

      #1.27 - Fri Sep 25, 2009 11:11 AM EDT
      robert-1368794

      Every product in USA has parts made from MEXICO,CHINA etc. In heating cooling systems,motors,relays almost all electrical components except the compressor is made elsewhere. Yes we are helping other countries. The labor rate cost of everything is so much cheaper.We are the cause,that,s why Americans are out of job,s etc.That is old-old news,sorry.I have had 4 heart attacts in the last 10 years. Ihave survived thanks to Jesus.Ihave been on the same job,same company for 28 years.Ijust became 53 years of age.Iwork in the hvac industry.We have no one to blame but ourselves for the situation the USA is in.Ilike the new president. Seems like he is doing more than any in my lifetime to try to help things. He was handed this world of crap.anyway I,m getting off or to deep on the origional issue. I pray to JESUS that he will continue to bless this country and be our leader and help all who are in offices be better and save our country.Thank you JESUS as always to hear my prayers and most of all THANK YOU FOR SAVING MY AND MY WIFES SOUL,THANK YOU FOR THE PEACE THAT KEEPS ME ALIVE.

        #1.28 - Fri Sep 25, 2009 8:43 PM EDT
        Reply
        JetRanger

        Wade - I totally Agree ~!!!!

        • 1 vote
        Reply#2 - Thu Sep 24, 2009 3:54 AM EDT
        The Worm Turned

        I too recognize the irony. (and don't everyone tell me that that's not what irony means!! :-)

        I went to a home improvement store. The only Washer/Dryer brand that was actually made in America, was Bosche! That German country has made a committment to built in America. The other companies, Maytag, GE... have large portions of their equiqment built in foreign countries, imported, assembled and called "Built in America".

        • 7 votes
        #2.1 - Thu Sep 24, 2009 9:38 AM EDT
        ASignOfTheTimes

        I'm waiting for the new "Congress Clunker" program in November of 2010.

        • 3 votes
        #2.2 - Thu Sep 24, 2009 3:55 PM EDT
        Reply
        JetRanger

        The Heck with this Idea,, When are they going to have or Start a Cash for Relatives Program,, I've got some relatives I'd like to trade in and get rid of, for whatever their worth ! Whens that program goin to start, be way more beneficial than this,, !!!!

        • 8 votes
        Reply#3 - Thu Sep 24, 2009 3:56 AM EDT
        SJB

        OK, that WAS a good laugh! I like your incentives better.

          #3.1 - Thu Sep 24, 2009 10:32 AM EDT
          The Worm Turned

          JetRanger,

          I heard the name for this already "Cash for Codgers"!

          • 1 vote
          #3.2 - Thu Sep 24, 2009 12:36 PM EDT
          Greg-281912

          Now we're talkin.

            #3.3 - Thu Sep 24, 2009 1:57 PM EDT
            JetRanger

            TRADE INS - Trade in your Relative, and get a Cash Rebate,, just before The Hollidays - then ya won't have to put up with them, and you can actually enjoy the Hollidays without them around,, Now - thats a Program !!!!!

              #3.4 - Thu Sep 24, 2009 10:00 PM EDT
              Reply
              ISpeakTruthDeleted
              El_Whapo

              What a fricking joke. Obama is showing that he can me a charity working with my tax dollar. We're in deep do do people!

              • 9 votes
              Reply#5 - Thu Sep 24, 2009 8:42 AM EDT
              navynuke

              This entire administration is a "Clunker" I wish we could recycle it now!. These fools are cheering a a$$holew who is taking their money, using it to solidify his power and then gives some money back in the way of rebates and fools continue to cheer him. With this crowd the "shamwow guy" would be king.

              • 10 votes
              Reply#6 - Thu Sep 24, 2009 9:05 AM EDT
              John Pollard

              I need a clunkers plan for my old television and also one for my old computer. Will the government start accepting old clothing so I can get a new wardrobe? this is exciting - and a total waste of money! The country needs jobs and a well thought out plan to create jobs. Throwing money around is not going to produce any long term benefits. The best way for the administration to create jobs is to help small and medium size businesses. $300 million spent on appliances would be much better spent on helping small and medium size businesses grow and create new jobs. This action will have nearly zero positive long term effect on the economy.

              • 9 votes
              Reply#7 - Thu Sep 24, 2009 9:28 AM EDT
              Lindy888

              I think it would be a good Idea to put tv and pc's on the list....as an older american...I can't see my tv good because of my eyes or not so good anymore.....so let's have the tv on .......its a very important household product for seniors.......

                #7.1 - Thu Sep 24, 2009 10:49 AM EDT
                Are you awake yet?

                Yes! A cash for clunkers TV program would allow me to convince my wife that we should replace our perfectly functioning 27" tv with a nice new 42" flat screen. Thank you Obama!

                (yes, that was sarcasm)

                • 3 votes
                #7.2 - Thu Sep 24, 2009 11:30 AM EDT
                ASignOfTheTimes

                This makes a lot of sense, what do we do after everyone has new appliances? People will have a new car loan they can't afford and a new empty refrigerator, waiting on their welfare check to fill it. We'll be back to the same old situation.

                Good job congress.

                People there's no money! It's all borrowed and we're pi$$ing it away on this nonsense!!!!!!!

                • 2 votes
                #7.3 - Thu Sep 24, 2009 4:02 PM EDT
                Reply
                Simpler Man

                Yea, what a smart program considering how far in debt we are. (sarcasm)

                Just got back from Europe - a place where even a mainstream media economist will say the simple ugly truth about the US economy - "They've destroyed their balance sheet".

                Not that I agree with most of the foriegn political editiorials, but look to foriegn news sources for a clearer picture of how economically screwed we are right now.

                • 6 votes
                Reply#8 - Thu Sep 24, 2009 9:47 AM EDT
                Trevor-1973

                It's impossible to do good with other peoples money.

                But don't worry you won't have any left soon so the problem will eventually fix itself.

                • 10 votes
                Reply#9 - Thu Sep 24, 2009 9:48 AM EDT
                314159

                Yes..., I believe this was sold to America as 'change you can believe in'.

                • 4 votes
                #9.1 - Thu Sep 24, 2009 10:45 AM EDT
                Reply
                superlogiDeleted
                chicagorieco-1Deleted
                Rickeroo

                More "cash for trash" garbage to weaken the dollar and destroy America.

                • 2 votes
                Reply#12 - Thu Sep 24, 2009 10:22 AM EDT
                John-385319Deleted
                cpw777

                Keeping my $$$ under the mattress is looking better all the time. That will work until the government decides they can just come in and look!

                • 3 votes
                #12.2 - Thu Sep 24, 2009 11:34 AM EDT
                Ian Blokesworth

                Keeping $$$ under your mattress means that they are losing value every day. At least keep it in a bank CD.

                  #12.3 - Thu Sep 24, 2009 2:04 PM EDT
                  Reply
                  ColliDeleted
                  Alan GioannettiDeleted
                  jdmb03

                  Here we go again. Another useless government program.

                  • 3 votes
                  Reply#15 - Thu Sep 24, 2009 10:27 AM EDT
                  cbrownohio

                  soon they will have cash for costumes so you can exchange your old halloween cosyume for a new one. then it will be cash for toys so that you can get your kids new toys for x-mas. when will all this craziness stop! they are destroying this country on purpose. vote them all out on 2010 and 2012. they do not deserve to serve.

                  • 5 votes
                  Reply#16 - Thu Sep 24, 2009 10:28 AM EDT
                  Miss Ann Thropy

                  It's too bad that the (s)election process is a corrupt insiders game that only serves to give the landless peasant f**ks a false sense of freedom. Vote to your hearts content, both parties are on the same team. The real agenda rolls on...

                  • 2 votes
                  #16.1 - Thu Sep 24, 2009 10:37 AM EDT
                  cpw777

                  No, it will be cash for guns, only you don't get to buy the new gun......

                  • 1 vote
                  #16.2 - Thu Sep 24, 2009 11:37 AM EDT
                  Reply
                  ColliDeleted
                  Miss Ann Thropy

                  Another ridiculous government boondoggle. They'll do anything to get a temporary upswing in consumer spending statistics. They never tire of stringing the cattle along.

                  • 2 votes
                  Reply#18 - Thu Sep 24, 2009 10:33 AM EDT
                  ColliDeleted
                  nothing new here-1200374

                   

                  I smell a "clunker czar" in the works. 

                  • 2 votes
                  Reply#20 - Thu Sep 24, 2009 10:36 AM EDT
                  RON-1137649

                  Excuse me .But did that say $300 million? That's $6 million per state.What cae you do with
                  $6,000,000 dollars?
                  After you set up a new bureaucracy.Whats office and staff etc.,etc.etc. How much of that money well be left ?
                  Just how many fools will they find to pay the inflated prices ,for new appliances ?
                  This last weekend I saw an add for a stainless steel side by side refrigerator for only $2,400
                  WOW ! I'm just over joyed that they've inflated the price from about $1,200 in the last
                  4 or 5 years .
                  I know I'm wrong in saying this .Just like the housing industry.When the houses stopped selling the prices dropped. Could the same happen to the appliance industry?
                  We've got an old stove that needs replacing .So what ,we've lived with it this long .
                  Don't put me on the fools list.

                  RON

                  • 2 votes
                  Reply#21 - Thu Sep 24, 2009 10:37 AM EDT
                  314159

                  A government program short on details..., amazing. Haven't we come to expect that from this Congress and Administration?

                  • 3 votes
                  Reply#22 - Thu Sep 24, 2009 10:39 AM EDT
                  bktrash

                  My prophecy has come true. I wrote to Patty Murray 6 weeks ago about how stupid this cash for clunkers deal was. I asked what is next? Cash for vacations, or cash for big screen tv's?

                  I couldn't stop laughing this morning when I read this article.

                  MORONS!!!

                  • 3 votes
                  Reply#23 - Thu Sep 24, 2009 10:42 AM EDT
                  Captain Rod

                  Only the government could call cash for clunkers hugely successful.

                  Assuming all 700K vehicles in the program get 10 miles per gallon better than the car traded in. We would save 1/4 of 1 days gasoline consumption for the entire year, or 350 million dollars in imported oil at 75 dollars per barrel.

                  WE PAID 3 BILLION DOLLARS TO SAVE 350 MILLION DOLLARS. HUGELY SUCCESSFUL?

                  DOES ANYONE UNDERSTAND MATH THESE DAYS?

                  • 4 votes
                  Reply#24 - Thu Sep 24, 2009 10:43 AM EDT
                  Clotho

                  Your math is faulty. You assume the new, economical cars fail stop being used after 1 year. The cost savings continue through the life of the car. True, it will still take a few years to show a savings, but in the meantime we are also helping the environment.

                  Also, your math doesn't take into account that barrels of oil are crude, not refined oil. There is a lot less refined oil produced per barrel, meaning your "1/4 of 1 days" is incorrect.

                  Thanks.

                    #24.1 - Thu Sep 24, 2009 10:51 AM EDT
                    Are you awake yet?

                    Assuming the fuel savings over the life of the car does make up for the money spent on the program (I didnt do the math so I won't dispute your figures), why is it that the govt, during a time where they need to be a little more fiscally responsible (I know that's asking a lot of our congress), spent 3 billion dollars to help more americans get further in debt. Unemployment numbers are still rising, yet the govt convinced people that had a perfectly functioning vehicle that was paid off to trade it in for a new car payment. It created a nice upswing in auto sales for about a month and now those numbers are tanking again. Time will tell about the number of people that might end up defaulting on thier auto loans as well.

                    So now they want to do it again. Cash for clunkers was so popular because people saw it as free money to get a shiny new car. They are going to see this the same way. Hopefully most of us have realized the program for what it is, something designed to get us further in debt, and it won't be as popular. I didn't trade in my truck back then, and all my appliances work fine so I won't be buying any new ones.

                    Saving the environment is all well and good and kudos to anyone that does want to do it, but allowing ourselves (individuals and government) to get further in debt at a time when we need to fix the problems we have now, is not the way to do it.

                    • 1 vote
                    #24.2 - Thu Sep 24, 2009 11:45 AM EDT
                    Reply
                    pedalrunner-1364796

                    Please, as you keep in mind that these new appliances are more energy efficient.They do not last as long as the older models. Within 5 years you may have a problem,

                    The new compressors that use the 134 is more acid based and is very fragile to overheating (make sure you clean the condensor coils to prevent this).

                    Appliances of today have computers in them and are also very fragile. If a DC motor gets moisture into this component it not only needs to be replaced but shorts out the control board. Big bucks to replace!

                    Find out where these new appliances are made! Parts are hard to find if it's made oversees and are very costly. You may have to wait for weeks to get a replacement part! Meanwhile your food is melting!

                      Reply#25 - Thu Sep 24, 2009 10:47 AM EDT
                      pedalrunner-1364796

                      Also compare warranties! Manufactures are working hand in hand with these extended warranty companies. Why should the manufacture take the chance of covering repairs for nothing when the consumer will pay for an extended warranty and take the chance.

                        #25.1 - Thu Sep 24, 2009 11:15 AM EDT
                        pedalrunner-1364796

                        Front load washers? Repair a bearing and seal that's leaking water after just only 3 years of use and your talking about 500 bucks at least!

                          #25.2 - Thu Sep 24, 2009 11:36 AM EDT
                          cpw777

                          That's why they want to sell you the $2000 warranty on a brand new washer. Ridiculous.

                            #25.3 - Thu Sep 24, 2009 11:39 AM EDT
                            Reply
                            charles turner

                            this idiotic regime puts out lame plans like a grade school student council. well, actually the student council would think things through and vote legitimately on them. when will the cash for updating flat panel t.vs come out?

                            • 1 vote
                            Reply#26 - Thu Sep 24, 2009 10:49 AM EDT
                            314159

                            With the recent switch to digital transmission, I am certain it is just around the corner...

                            • 2 votes
                            #26.1 - Thu Sep 24, 2009 10:57 AM EDT
                            Carlos Toadvine

                            I forgot about the switch there is a definite need and how can we expect people to make a intelligent decision without the helping hand of our benevolent leaders in Washington who happily spend our grandchildrens money like it is their own. We are the lucky ones we live in such an enlightened age.

                            • 1 vote
                            #26.2 - Thu Sep 24, 2009 11:13 AM EDT
                            Andyb-300124

                            Maybe I can replace my brand new LCD flatscreen with the new LED flatscreen!!

                            • 1 vote
                            #26.3 - Thu Sep 24, 2009 1:37 PM EDT
                            Reply
                            Bama-836911

                            I believe we paid 3 Billion Dollars to get Obama bumper stickers off the road.

                            • 2 votes
                            Reply#27 - Thu Sep 24, 2009 10:51 AM EDT
                            314159

                            Then I guess it was worth it... America doesn't need more continuing reminders of the 2008 election.

                            • 2 votes
                            #27.1 - Thu Sep 24, 2009 10:58 AM EDT
                            Reply
                            MissThang-379031

                            A government program that is running off the backs of taxpayers that has abolutely no foresight or details? It's just business as usual.

                            Of course for the "gimme gimme" crowd this is gold! "Who cares whos paying or what it means in the long term. As long as I get exactly what I want right now and for cheap thats all that matters"

                            • 1 vote
                            Reply#28 - Thu Sep 24, 2009 10:52 AM EDT
                            314159

                            The sad thing is that my grand children's grand children will be paying for someone to buy a new frig today... Good thinking Congress...

                            • 2 votes
                            #28.1 - Thu Sep 24, 2009 11:01 AM EDT
                            Andyb-300124

                            Hopefully your GG grandchildren will be able to find food to put in GG grandpa's (ma's) antique 'fridge.

                            • 1 vote
                            #28.2 - Thu Sep 24, 2009 1:39 PM EDT
                            Reply
                            Amanda B Reckonwith

                            Wow. Obama is going to repeat his performance in the auto cash for clunkers program. Another gazillion dollars go to China while taxes go through the effing roof.

                            • 2 votes
                            Reply#29 - Thu Sep 24, 2009 10:57 AM EDT
                            wytravelr

                            Obama IS the new SHAMWOW guy everybody just doesn't realize it yet so remember folks we can't do this all day long !!! Just like I said last week !!!!

                            • 1 vote
                            Reply#30 - Thu Sep 24, 2009 11:00 AM EDT
                            314159

                            Apparently, we will HAVE to do this for the next 3.5 years or so...

                              #30.1 - Thu Sep 24, 2009 11:03 AM EDT
                              Reply
                              Rick-677008

                              Another program that lets the taxpayers pay for someoneelses needs or wants. Our taxes are used for more and more crap that does nothing for anyone except those who want the goverment to do for them. Meanwhile the economy and the country go down the Obama.

                              • 2 votes
                              Reply#31 - Thu Sep 24, 2009 11:03 AM EDT
                              Rick-332019

                              The sad thing is that we end up helping China or who ever else makes the products I had no idea what US companies made what but this site helped a great deal.

                              Find US made.com

                              • 2 votes
                              Reply#32 - Thu Sep 24, 2009 11:06 AM EDT
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