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Fed didn’t bark at subprime loan abuses

Sun Sep 27, 2009 3:52 AM EDT
business, economy, congress, only-on-msnbc-com, washington-post, fed, consumer, lending, affiliates, fed's
msnbc.com News — Binyamin Appelbaum, msnbc.com - Only on msnbc.com
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— The visits had a ritual quality. Three times a year, a coalition of Chicago community groups met with the Federal Reserve and other banking regulators to warn about the growing prevalence of abusive mortgage lending.

They began to present research in 1999 showing that large banking companies including Wells Fargo and Citigroup had created subprime businesses wholly focused on making loans at high interest rates, largely in the black and Hispanic neighborhoods to the south and west of downtown Chicago.

The groups pleaded for regulators to act.

The evidence eventually led Illinois to file suit against Wells Fargo in July for discrimination and other abuses.

But during the years of the housing boom, the pleas failed to move the Fed, the sole federal regulator with authority over the businesses. Under a policy quietly formalized in 1998, the Fed refused to police lenders' compliance with federal laws protecting borrowers, despite repeated urging by consumer advocates across the country and even by other government agencies.

The hands-off policy, which the Fed reversed earlier this month, created a double standard. Banks and their subprime affiliates made loans under the same laws, but only the banks faced regular federal scrutiny. Under the policy, the Fed did not even investigate consumer complaints against the affiliates.

"In the prime market, where we need supervision less, we have lots of it. In the subprime market, where we badly need supervision, a majority of loans are made with very little supervision," former Fed Governor Edward M. Gramlich, a critic of the hands-off policy, wrote in 2007. "It is like a city with a murder law, but no cops on the beat."

Between 2004 and 2007, bank affiliates made more than 1.1 million subprime loans, around 13 percent of the national total, federal data show. Thousands ended in foreclosure, helping to spark the crisis and leaving borrowers and investors to deal with the consequences.

Fire the Fed?
Congress now is weighing whether the Fed should be fired. The Obama administration has proposed shifting consumer protection duties away from the Fed and other banking regulators and into a new watchdog agency. That proposal, a central plank in the administration's plan to overhaul financial regulation, is opposed by the industry and faces a battle on Capitol Hill.

The Federal Reserve is best known as an economic shepherd, responsible for adjusting interest rates to keep prices steady and unemployment low. But since its creation, the Fed has held a second job as a banking regulator, one of four federal agencies responsible for keeping banks healthy and protecting their customers. Congress also authorized the Fed to write consumer protection rules enforced by all the agencies.

During the boom, however, the Fed left those powers largely unused. It imposed few new constraints on mortgage lending and pulled back from enforcing rules that did exist.

The Fed's performance was undercut by several factors, according to documents and more than two dozen interviews with current and former Fed governors and employees, government officials, industry executives and consumer advocates. It was crippled by the doubts of senior officials about the value of regulation, by a tendency to discount anecdotal evidence of problems and by its affinity for the financial industry.

Fed Chairman Ben S. Bernanke testified before Congress this summer that the Fed has protected consumers with renewed vigor in recent years, writing new rules and responding to problems more quickly. The Fed has avoided a public position on the new agency, but Bernanke has testified that Congress instead could choose to strengthen the Fed's responsibilities.

Subprime mortgage lending sneaked up on the Federal Reserve.

Most subprime affiliates began life as independent consumer finance companies, beyond the watch of banking regulators. These firms made loans to people whose credit was not good enough to borrow from banks, generally at high interest rates, often just a few thousand dollars for new furniture or medical bills. But by the 1990s, thanks to big changes in laws, markets and lending technology, the companies increasingly were focused on the much more lucrative business of mortgage lending.

As profits soared, hundreds of banking companies took notice, buying or creating finance businesses for themselves. Consumer advocates demanded that regulators take notice, too.

The advocates amassed evidence of abusive practices by lenders, such as Fleet Finance, an affiliate of a New England bank that eventually paid the state of Georgia $115 million to settle allegations that it charged thousands of lower-income black families usurious interest rates and punitive fees on home-equity loans. The National Community Reinvestment Coalition pressed the Fed to investigate allegations against other affiliates.

On Jan. 12, 1998, the Fed demurred. Acting on a recommendation from four Fed staffers including representatives of the Philadelphia, St. Louis and Kansas City regional reserve banks, the Fed's Board of Governors unanimously decided to formalize a long-standing practice, "to not conduct consumer compliance examinations of, nor to investigate consumer complaints regarding, nonbank subsidiaries of bank holding companies."

The Fed could balk because Congress had allowed the laws governing the financial industry to become outdated.

Little oversight
Banks and the companies that own them, known as holding companies, have long operated under federal oversight. But a growing share of loans were made by companies that competed with banks, such as consumer finance firms. The money they gave to borrowers came from Wall Street rather than depositors. As a result, those firms operated beyond the authority of banking regulators, and Congress did not task anyone else with oversight.

The Fed Board decided that even when a nonbank was purchased by a bank holding company, the Fed still lacked authority to police its operations.

Fed staff recommended that it continue to investigate complaints from Congress, which oversees the central bank's performance as an industry regulator. Everything else was passed to the Federal Trade Commission, which has law-enforcement powers but neither the authority nor the resources to oversee the fast-growing industry.

The Fed's hands-off policy was quickly criticized by other parts of the federal government.

A 1999 report by the General Accounting Office warned that the Fed's decision created "a lack of regulatory oversight," because the Fed alone was in a position to supervise the affiliates.

"If the Fed really wants to take action against predatory lending, here is a clear opportunity," John Taylor, president of the National Community Reinvestment Coalition, told Congress after the report was issued.

A 2000 joint report on predatory lending by the Treasury Department and the Department of Housing and Urban Development made a similar recommendation. The report said the Fed clearly had the authority to investigate evidence of abusive lending practices, and urged a policy of targeted examinations.

Even inside the Fed, there was dissent. Gramlich was starting to express concern about predatory lending in his public speeches. He had voted for the hands-off policy in 1998, but by 2000 concluded that the Fed could demonstrate leadership by subjecting the lending affiliates to examinations. "A good defense against predatory lending, perhaps the best defense society has devised, is a careful compliance examination for banks," Gramlich later told a 2004 meeting of bankers in Chicago.

Alan Greenspan, then chairman of the Fed, recalled that Gramlich broached the subject at a private meeting in 2000. Greenspan said that he disagreed with Gramlich, telling him that such inspections would require a vast effort with no certainty of results, and that the Fed's involvement might give borrowers a false sense of security.

Gramlich did not press the issue. Years later, in 2007, after an account of the meeting appeared in newspapers, he sent Greenspan a note that read in part, "What happened was a small incident, and as I think you know, if I had felt that strongly at the time, I would have made a bigger stink."

After the Fed's decision, several of the largest bank holding companies added finance arms, expanding into the regulatory vacuum.

In March 1998, First Union bought the Money Store, a California lender with a ziggurat for a headquarters, ads featuring baseball Hall of Famers Jim Palmer and Phil Rizutto, and a catchy phone number: 1-800-LOAN-YES.

"Thank goodness you can buy all of the things you need with a fixed-rate second mortgage loan," Rizutto told audiences.

In April 1998, Citibank announced a merger with Travelers and its finance arm, which was renamed CitiFinancial. Two years later, Citigroup added the nation's largest consumer finance company, paying $31 billion for Associates First Capital. Both the Justice Department and the FTC were investigating Associates for abusive lending practices, but Citi executives promised reforms. In 2002, the company agreed to pay the FTC a record fine of $215 million to settle allegations that Associates had "engaged in systematic and widespread deceptive and abusive lending practices."

The last of the large finance companies was also snapped up in 2002, as HSBC agreed to pay $14 billion for Household International. The Chicago firm described itself as the nation's oldest finance company and boasted in its corporate history that it pioneered direct-mail loan solicitations in 1896. More recently, it had become the subject of a massive investigation by state attorneys general who charged that it routinely misled borrowers about the true cost of refinance loans. Immediately before announcing its deal with HSBC, Household agreed to pay $484 million to settle those charges.

By 2004, the consumer finance industry had largely been folded into the banking industry, and the finance arms of bank holding companies were making at least 12 percent of all mortgage loans with high interest rates, according to data reported by lenders under the Home Mortgage Disclosure Act.

Calls for regulation
The rapid growth of subprime lending by affiliates renewed the interest of the GAO, which repeated its call for the Fed to examine affiliates in a 2004 report on shortcomings in federal efforts to combat predatory lending. The report noted the FTC investigations of Fleet Finance and Associates as reasons for concern.

"The significant amount of subprime lending among holding company subsidiaries, combined with recent large settlements in cases involving allegations against such subsidiaries, suggests a need for additional scrutiny and monitoring of these entities," the GAO said.

This time, the GAO suggested that Congress clarify the question of legal authority to address the Fed's concerns.

A response letter signed by Gramlich, who died in 2007, said the Fed had all the authority it needed if it wanted to act. "The existing structure has not been a barrier to Federal Reserve oversight," he wrote.

Five months later, the Fed took its first public enforcement action against an affiliate, fining Citigroup $70 million. In settling the FTC's earlier charges, Citigroup had agreed to a number of reforms. The Fed found that some practices had continued in violation of that commitment, and that employees had misled regulators.

Fed officials cite the fine as evidence that the agency was able to protect consumers without conducting regular examinations. Consumer advocates took the opposite lesson: Despite finding that a major affiliate was violating consumer protection laws, the Fed still was refusing to create a reliable system for identifying other abuses.

The Citigroup case remains the Fed's only public enforcement action against a lending affiliate.

The Fed's reluctance was part of a broad governmental retreat from oversight of the financial industry. Greenspan and many politicians in both parties saw regulation as a blunt instrument that often deprived more people than it protected.

"There was a long period when things were going very well and regulation was viewed as something that got in the way," said Alice Rivlin, the Fed's vice chairman from 1996 to 1999 and now a fellow at the Brookings Institution.

The Fed also minimized repeated warnings about mortgage lending abuses in part because it was an institution dominated by big-picture economists focused on the health of the broader economy rather than the problems faced by individual borrowers.

Greenspan said in an interview that he did not think the Fed was suited to policing lending abuses because of its focus on broader issues, but he added, "I'm not sure anyone could have done it better." He said the administration's plan to create a consumer protection agency was "probably the right decision."

Throughout the lending boom, consumer advocates trooped regularly to the Fed's monumental marble headquarters on Constitution Avenue to offer specific accounts of abuses in financial transactions. But what seemed powerful to advocates often was dismissed as anecdotal by regulators.

"The response we were getting from most of the governors and the staff was, 'All you're able to do is point to the stories of individual consumers, you're not able to show the macroeconomic effect,' " said Patricia McCoy, a law professor at the University of Connecticut who served on the Fed's consumer advisory council from 2002 to 2004. "That is a classic Fed mindset. If you cannot prove that it is a broad-based problem that threatens systemic consequences, then you will be dismissed."

As the anecdotes piled up, so did the frustration of advocates. By refusing to conduct examinations of lending affiliates -- by refusing to look systematically -- the Fed was basically preventing itself from finding systemic problems.

"I stood up at a Fed meeting in 2005 and said, 'How may anecdotes makes it real?' " said Margot Saunders of the National Consumer Law Center's Washington office. "How many tens or thousands of anecdotes will it take to convince you that this is a trend?' "

The boom, the burden
As the great housing boom soared toward its cataclysm, lending abuses became increasingly hard to ignore.

The Fed's Board of Governors had voted in 2002 to require more detailed annual reports from mortgage lenders. When the first data were released in the fall of 2005, they confirmed that the largest banking companies had developed split personalities. The banks, subject to regular scrutiny, mostly made loans at market rates and concentrated their lending in white, suburban neighborhoods. The unwatched subprime affiliates mostly made loans at high rates and concentrated their lending in minority neighborhoods.

Wells Fargo Bank, for example, charged high interest rates on only 9 percent of its loans between 2004 and 2007. Wells Fargo Financial, which used the same stagecoach logo and the same red-and-yellow color scheme, charged high rates on 80 percent of its loans during the same period. The disparities were similar at Citigroup and HSBC.

Nationwide, the data showed that black borrowers making more than $100,000 were charged high rates more often than white borrowers making less than $40,000.

The three companies have all said they complied with lending laws and that race was not a factor in their decisions.

Wells Fargo said that it complied with all relevant laws, and it is contesting the Illinois lawsuit. The company merged its subprime affiliate into its bank last year.

"We served customers across the United States regardless of their race. Our pricing and underwriting simply doesn't factor race into the equation at all," David Kvamme, president of Wells Fargo Financial, said in an interview. "We were regulated on a consistent basis by the states, and the states looked deeply into our compliance with all laws including consumer protection laws."

Consumer advocates used the data to press their case for increased regulation.

'Evidence of discrimination'
At the end of the March 2007 meeting of the Fed's consumer advisory council, during a slot reserved for presentations, two longtime advocates confronted the Fed's governors and staff with a study showing lending disparities in six cities including New York and Chicago.

"We thought it was pretty convincing evidence of discrimination," recalled one of the presenters, Sarah Ludwig of the Neighborhood Economic Development Advocacy Project, based in New York. "And afterward I remember nobody asking a question. I remember nobody making eye contact. Nobody called me from the Fed afterward saying, 'Let's talk about it.'"

"We thought it was incredibly important and we weren't seeing much of a response," she said.

Finally, as the housing market, then the financial system, then economy came crashing down, the reluctance to regulate started to fade away.

Bernanke asked the Fed's lawyers to revisit their concerns and, in July 2007, the Fed announced a pilot program to examine a few subprime affiliates.

This summer, pronouncing itself satisfied with the results, the Fed announced it would launch regular consumer compliance examinations.

"In looking at our responsibility to enforce these consumer laws we believe a somewhat more proactive stance is justified," Bernanke told Congress.

The Fed also said it will begin to investigate consumer complaints.

This is the first in an occasional series of articles about the record of the Federal Reserve.

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  • Public Discussion (235)
Jump to discussion page: 1 2 3 4
Frank Bus

The FED is politically controlled, so what do the voters expect the bureaucrats in Washington to do about it? They are busy with their own business, campaigning for the next election and raising more money....

  • 16 votes
#1 - Sun Sep 27, 2009 5:43 AM EDT
George-1234Deleted
excaliburgc

If you want to learn about how our banks are controlling us go on youtube

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAaQNACwaLw

All our politicians and the Worlds are controlled by them. all searchable facts

This video is not just about Obama but Bush too.

This will scare you.

  • 4 votes
#1.2 - Sun Sep 27, 2009 9:08 AM EDT
ModerationInAllThings

Oh my God!

Does this also mean there is no Santa, no Easter Bunny? Don't tell me Leprechauns don't exist!

Simply shocked to the core...

The Fed didn't stop their own abuses, for their internationally owned banks, with Experts knowing that after the feeding frenzy, the TBTF would survive and profit further.

Absolutely unfathomable.

Could this mean that there's truth to Them, our Corrupt Politicians AND the Illegal Federal Reserve BEING in cahoots? Could it mean that they have no interest in America, as long as money is made somewhere? Some third world nations, living under communist controls, making slave wages for Their profiteering? That we'll live under the same conditions unless we do something?

Naw, couldn't be...

  • 13 votes
#1.3 - Sun Sep 27, 2009 9:42 AM EDT
ModerationInAllThings

Gotta love the Dream of the Global Economy; of raising the world's poor standards (at the expense of America's standards).

Hey, isn't That how They want to raise the standards of America's poor? Not by honest jobs and means, but off the backs of the same Middle Class Citizens that will suffer under this Global Agenda? Is it reality, could it be that since it is Common Sense and Fits that it is true?

Or just curiously coincedental...

  • 4 votes
#1.4 - Sun Sep 27, 2009 9:48 AM EDT
Amazing-439484

We don't want or need a "One World Government", this is one step in many, and a few more to come....don't be fooled.....they who are known as the Bilderberg Group want control over all of us.....they want us to be their slaves. Take our country back....

  • 8 votes
#1.5 - Sun Sep 27, 2009 9:57 AM EDT
telmom32

Did I miss it or was there "no" mention of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac and their part in this maze?

  • 8 votes
#1.6 - Sun Sep 27, 2009 10:28 AM EDT
ROY WILSON-336103

What's totally missing from this rather lengthy article are the factors that made sub-prime mortgage lending feasible - the policies of Fannie Mae & Freddie Mac that allowed unqualified people to buy houses with little or no money down, promoted in no small part by ACORN who sued lenders to force them to make sub-prime mortgages. While the problems may gave started under Clinton's Administration, consistent attempts to regulate the industry by the Bush Administration were thwarted by powerful Democrats in Congress - namely Barney Frank, Chris Dodd and Nancy Pelosi. Consider the following well documented truth;

Contributed by PerryJ

For those who want to blame the Bush Administration for lack of concern over the Sub-Prime mortgage crisis until it was too late, consider this:

2001 April: The Administration's FY02 budget declares that the size of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac is "a potential problem," because "financial trouble of a large GSE (Government Sponsored Enterprise) could cause strong repercussions in financial markets, affecting Federally insured entities and economic activity." (2002 Budget Analytic Perspectives, pg. 142)

2002 May: The Office of Management and Budget (OMB) calls for the disclosure and corporate governance principles contained in the President's 10-point plan for corporate responsibility to apply to Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. (OMB Prompt Letter to OFHEO, 5/29/02)

2003 February: The Office of Federal Housing Enterprise Oversight (OFHEO) releases a report explaining that unexpected problems at a GSE could immediately spread into financial sectors beyond the housing market.

2003 September: Then-Treasury Secretary John Snow testifies before the House Financial Services Committee to recommend that Congress enact "legislation to create a new Federal agency to regulate and supervise the financial activities of our housing-related government sponsored enterprises" and set prudent and appropriate minimum capital adequacy requirements.

2003 September: Then-House Financial Services Committee Ranking Member Barney Frank (D-MA) strongly disagrees with the Administration's assessment, saying "these two entities – Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac – are not facing any kind of financial crisis … The more people exaggerate these problems, the more pressure there is on these companies, the less we will see in terms of affordable housing." (Stephen Labaton, "New Agency Proposed To Oversee Freddie Mac And Fannie Mae," The New York Times, 9/11/03)

2003 October: Senator Thomas Carper (D-DE) refuses to acknowledge any necessity for GSE reforms, saying "if it ain't broke, don't fix it." (Sen. Carper, Hearing of Senate Committee on Banking, Housing, and Urban Affairs, 10/16/03)

2003 November: Then-Council of the Economic Advisers (CEA) Chairman Greg Mankiw explains that any "legislation to reform GSE regulation should empower the new regulator with sufficient strength and credibility to reduce systemic risk." To reduce the potential for systemic instability, the regulator would have "broad authority to set both risk-based and minimum capital standards" and "receivership powers necessary to wind down the affairs of a troubled GSE." (N. Gregory Mankiw, Remarks At The Conference Of State Bank Supervisors State Banking Summit And Leadership, 11/6/03)

2004 February: The President's FY05 Budget again highlights the risk posed by the explosive growth of the GSEs and their low levels of required capital and calls for creation of a new, world-class regulator: "The Administration has determined that the safety and soundness regulators of the housing GSEs lack sufficient power and stature to meet their responsibilities, and therefore … should be replaced with a new strengthened regulator." (2005 Budget Analytic Perspectives, pg. 83)

2004 February: Then-CEA Chairman Mankiw cautions Congress to "not take [the financial market's] strength for granted." Again, the call from the Administration was to reduce this risk by "ensuring that the housing GSEs are overseen by an effective regulator." (N. Gregory Mankiw, Op-Ed, "Keeping Fannie And Freddie's House In Order," Financial Times, 2/24/04)

2004 April: Rep. Frank ignores the warnings, accusing the Administration of creating an "artificial issue." At a speech to the Mortgage Bankers Association conference, Rep. Frank said "people tend to pay their mortgages. I don't think we are in any remote danger here. This focus on receivership, I think, is intended to create fears that aren't there." ("Frank: GSE Failure A Phony Issue," American Banker, 4/21/04)

2004 June: Then-Treasury Deputy Secretary Samuel Bodman spotlights the risk posed by the GSEs and calls for reform, saying "We do not have a world-class system of supervision of the housing government sponsored enterprises (GSEs), even though the importance of the housing financial system that the GSEs serve demands the best in supervision to ensure the long-term vitality of that system. Therefore, the Administration has called for a new, first class, regulatory supervisor for the three housing GSEs: Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, and the Federal Home Loan Banking System." (Samuel Bodman, House Financial Services Subcommittee on Oversight and Investigations Testimony, 6/16/04)

2005 April: Then-Secretary Snow repeats his call for GSE reform, saying "Events that have transpired since I testified before this Committee in 2003 reinforce concerns over the systemic risks posed by the GSEs and further highlight the need for real GSE reform to ensure that our housing finance system remains a strong and vibrant source of funding for expanding homeownership opportunities in America … Half-measures will only exacerbate the risks to our financial system." (Secretary John W. Snow, "Testimony Before The U.S. House Financial Services Committee," 4/13/05)

2005 July: Then-Minority Leader Harry Reid rejects legislation reforming GSEs, "while I favor improving oversight by our federal housing regulators to ensure safety and soundness, we cannot pass legislation that could limit Americans from owning homes and potentially harm our economy in the process." ("Dems Rip New Fannie Mae Regulatory Measure," United Press International, 7/28/05)

2007 August: President Bush emphatically calls on Congress to pass a reform package for Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, saying "first things first when it comes to those two institutions. Congress needs to get them reformed, get them streamlined, get them focused, and then I will consider other options." (President George W. Bush, Press Conference, the White House, 8/9/07)

2007 August: Senate Committee on Banking, Housing and Urban Affairs Chairman Christopher Dodd ignores the President's warnings and calls on him to "immediately reconsider his ill-advised" position. (Eric Dash, "Fannie Mae's Offer To Help Ease Credit Squeeze Is Rejected, As Critics Complain Of Opportunism," The New York Times, 8/11/07)

2007 December: President Bush again warns Congress of the need to pass legislation reforming GSEs, saying "These institutions provide liquidity in the mortgage market that benefits millions of homeowners, and it is vital they operate safely and operate soundly. So I've called on Congress to pass legislation that strengthens independent regulation of the GSEs – and ensures they focus on their important housing mission. The GSE reform bill passed by the House earlier this year is a good start. But the Senate has not acted. And the United States Senate needs to pass this legislation soon." (President George W. Bush, Discusses Housing, the White House, 12/6/07)

2008 February: Assistant Treasury Secretary David Nason reiterates the urgency of reforms, saying "A new regulatory structure for the housing GSEs is essential if these entities are to continue to perform their public mission successfully." (David Nason, Testimony On Reforming GSE Regulation, Senate Committee On Banking, Housing And Urban Affairs, 2/7/08)

2008 March: President Bush calls on Congress to take action and "move forward with reforms on Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. They need to continue to modernize the FHA, as well as allow State housing agencies to issue tax-free bonds to homeowners to refinance their mortgages." (President George W. Bush, Remarks To The Economic Club Of New York, New York, NY, 3/14/08)

2008 April: President Bush urges Congress to pass the much needed legislation and "modernize Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. [There are] constructive things Congress can do that will encourage the housing market to correct quickly by … helping people stay in their homes." (President George W. Bush, Meeting With Cabinet, the White House, 4/14/08)

2008 May: President Bush issues several pleas to Congress to pass legislation reforming Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac before the situation deteriorates further. "Americans are concerned about making their mortgage payments and keeping their homes. Yet Congress has failed to pass legislation I have repeatedly requested to modernize the Federal Housing Administration that will help more families stay in their homes, reform Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to ensure they focus on their housing mission, and allow state housing agencies to issue tax-free bonds to refinance sub-prime loans." (President George W. Bush, Radio Address, 5/3/08)

"[T]he government ought to be helping creditworthy people stay in their homes. And one way we can do that – and Congress is making progress on this – is the reform of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. That reform will come with a strong, independent regulator." (President George W. Bush, Meeting With The Secretary Of The Treasury, the White House, 5/19/08)

"Congress needs to pass legislation to modernize the Federal Housing Administration, reform Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to ensure they focus on their housing mission, and allow State housing agencies to issue tax-free bonds to refinance subprime loans." (President George W. Bush, Radio Address, 5/31/08)

2008 June: As foreclosure rates continued to rise in the first quarter, the President once again asks Congress to take the necessary measures to address this challenge, saying "we need to pass legislation to reform Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac." (President George W. Bush, Remarks At Swearing In Ceremony For Secretary Of Housing And Urban Development, Washington, D.C., 6/6/08)

2008 July: Congress heeds the President's call for action and passes reform legislation for Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac as it becomes clear that the institutions are failing.

2008 September: Democrats in Congress forget their previous objections to GSE reforms, as Senator Dodd questions "why weren't we doing more, why did we wait almost a year before there were any significant steps taken to try to deal with this problem? … I have a lot of questions about where was the administration over the last eight years." (Dawn Kopecki, "Fannie Mae, Freddie 'House Of Cards' Prompts Takeover," Bloomberg, 9/9/08)

Congress had for years blocked attempts at stronger regulation and blocked reform of the Federal Housing Administration.

House Financial Services Committee Chairman Barney Frank (D-MA) criticized the President's warning saying: "these two entities - Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac - are not facing any kind of financial crisis ... The more people exaggerate these problems, the more pressure there is on these companies, the less we will see in terms of affordable housing." (Stephen Labaton, "New Agency Proposed To Oversee Freddie Mac And Fannie Mae," New York Times, 9/11/03)

Senate Committee on Banking, Housing and Urban Affairs Chairman Christopher Dodd also ignored the President's warnings and called on him to "immediately reconsider his ill-advised" position. (Eric Dash, "Fannie Mae's Offer To Help Ease Credit Squeeze Is Rejected, As Critics Complain Of Opportunism," New York Times, 8/11/07)

President Bush publicly called for GSE reform at least 17 times in 2008 alone before Congress acted. Unfortunately, these warnings went unheeded, as the President's repeated attempts to reform the supervision of these entities were thwarted by the legislative maneuvering of those who emphatically denied there were problems. Many prominent Democrats, including House Finance Chairman Barney Frank, opposed any legislation correcting the risks posed by GSEs.

Political contributions from Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac overwhelmingly supported Democratic officials - in particular members of Democratic leadership:

Since 1989, Senator Chris Dodd (D-CT) has received $165,400 from Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. (Lindsay Renick Mayer, "Fannie Mae And Freddie Mac Invest In Lawmakers," Center For Responsive Politics' "Capital Eye" Blog, www.opensecrets.org, 9/11/08)

Since 1989, Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-NV) has received $77,000 from Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. (Lindsay Renick Mayer, "Fannie Mae And Freddie Mac Invest In Lawmakers," Center For Responsive Politics' "Capital Eye" Blog, www.opensecrets.org, 9/11/08)

Since 1989, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi has received $56,250 from Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. (Lindsay Renick Mayer, "Fannie Mae And Freddie Mac Invest In Lawmakers," Center For Responsive Politics' "Capital Eye" Blog, www.opensecrets.org, 9/11/08)

  • 18 votes
#1.7 - Sun Sep 27, 2009 10:39 AM EDT
easymoney65-800469

One big problem with this line of BS - Roy, Is that if you look back you will see that the republicans had complete control of both congress and the presidency. Your line of reason ring very hollow to all but a few dim-wits that don't understand political power made-up of numbers. Please try again.

  • 14 votes
#1.8 - Sun Sep 27, 2009 11:10 AM EDT
Last

The new Fed. regulations on credit cards have done nothing to help the borrowers for sure. They jacked up their interest rates and if you pay off your credit cards they will put it on your credit report that they closed your account instead of you doing so. You better make sure they haven't because it will drop your credit score 10-20 pts!

They are even trying to reopen old credit card balances that people negotiated payoffs on and claiming they haven't been paid off.....adding years of interest to them and turning them over to collection agencies!

Who's stopping them? No one!

  • 12 votes
#1.9 - Sun Sep 27, 2009 11:15 AM EDT
msongDeleted
Chris Kurz

And Americans want these type of people involved in Health Care. Are you stupid? Do you REALLY think bringing a bureaucrat into your Health Care is going to be productive. When will the Health Care "double standard" start?

  • 5 votes
#1.11 - Sun Sep 27, 2009 11:24 AM EDT
Sam-294559

One big problem with your retort easymoney is that you forget that in 2006 the Democrats held majorities in both houses. From 2004 to 2006 the Republicans held a slim majority in both houses but not enough to ram through legislation, it was not filibuster proof or there would have been many more appeal court judges appointed. There was also a Republican hesitancy to cram down legislation, a hesitancy lacking today in both houses. Get your political history right before you speak.

  • 6 votes
#1.12 - Sun Sep 27, 2009 11:33 AM EDT
LindaAllen

Roy

With all that being said, there are few who would disagree with your facts regarding Fanie Mae and Freddie Mac, however....the bigger question is that in 2005, the Bush Administration KNEW Greenspan was ready to retire, and when G.W. Bush took office, his administration worked tiredlessly to push through every de-regulation for Wall Street they could because Pres. Bush believed that "small government" was better and that Wall Street could regulate itself. He had the economic belief, which as based upon the beliefs of Cesar Corda, policy advisor to Dick Cheney, that a "free market ideology" was the best economic ideology. I guess history has proved that was probably not the best ideology after all.....

Pres. Bush replaced Greenspan with Ben Bernenke in early 2006. Where was the economic stategy for our country for 5 1/2 years of his presidency??? Between the Bush tax cuts, at a time of increased expendentures on 2 wars, and due to the ideology of "free-market" stategies for Wall Street...that is what started the sub-prime crisis.....not Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae. Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae had their own problems....but writing sub-prime mortgages was not their biggest problem. That was initiated by lenders tied to Wall Street to make an unregulated killing on the Mortage industry and it went completely unchecked by Bush Policy deregulation that occured in 2001 - 2004. The Bush Administration tuned in too late...it was distracted by 2 wars that our country could not sustain financially with a loss of 19.7% tax base and Wall Street speculators running a muck between the mortgage industry and oil speculations that began to cripple our nation.

In this current financial crisis in our country....the Fed was not to blame, government deregulation, tax cuts, 2 wars, and an unchecked financial market ideology on wall street all hit americans. The Federal Reserve was not totally to blame and neither were all the Democrats you sited....there was plenty of blame to go around, especially in a Republican controlled Congress and an Administration who rarely listened to anything or anyone from the Left....And the next time you get information from opensecrets.org - file a search for Republicans who also got contributions from Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.......you might not want to change your story. Take a good look at the new Republican post boy Newt....he got a bundle!!!

And let's be completely honest in why Bush selected Ben Bernenke in the first place, because he was his first CEA!!! And he felt tht Bernenke as Fed Chair would be viewed as independent and keep inflation low and the economy healthy which in return would win support for the proposal of permanent tax cuts to wealthy and altering social security.

  • 9 votes
#1.13 - Sun Sep 27, 2009 11:36 AM EDT
Smart_Voter-874902

The FREE PASS on Freddie and FANNIE ....

... in their own words: http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=fd4_1225048683

  • 1 vote
#1.14 - Sun Sep 27, 2009 11:58 AM EDT
Golfermom

Obama inherited a fiscal nightmare but here we are, 9 months into his term and the President and his Cabinet have done NOTHING to sanction the banking industry or Wall Street. It's business as usual for those who created this mess. Why aren't arrests being made? The events leading to this recession are as damaging to this country as the terrorism we expeienced on 9/11, and the effects are going to be at least as long-lasting. When is my 201(k) going to be a 401(k) again??? And when is the Federal gov't going to stop allowing the inmates to run the asylum??

  • 6 votes
#1.15 - Sun Sep 27, 2009 12:02 PM EDT
craig speakman

The Feds have a fiduciary responsibility to uphold the laws regulating the system. The govt. failed in it's responsibility to the people of the US and as such, should be held accountable in it's failure. The irony here, is that the govt. decided to bail out the perpetrators of the fraud and penalize the citizens who elect them into office.

However, do not b*tch about it, because there hasn't been one organized uprising by US citizens regarding the govt's. malfeasance, so apparently the citizens of the US must like bending over and taking it from behind from good ole Uncle Sam. We really have turned into a bunch of whining, spineless losers that inhabit this once great country. Have people forgotten how persuasive a bullet to the head can be in getting one's point across, when our system is so skewed to those with money and power?

  • 6 votes
#1.16 - Sun Sep 27, 2009 12:14 PM EDT
stormerF

The Clinton era was the start of the Sub prime,loans when Clinton sent a letter to Fannie Mae and thold them to loosen loan requirements,as he signed the deregulation act of banking. Then by the Democrats own words they prompted banks to make loans with the promise that Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac would support them.

The Democratic(Clinton) Administration told the fed hands off. Then in 2006 when the Democrats took over congress why did they not do something to fix the problem? Why did they wait till the Economy went to hell?

  • 1 vote
#1.17 - Sun Sep 27, 2009 12:22 PM EDT
Get The Point

ROY WILSON-336103 -

simply put, GOP were in CONTROL and this leads us with one of two possibilities:

1) GOP are most directly responsible (most likely).

2) GOP are so "ineffectual" that after 8 years they allowed minority controlling influence. (much less likely especially given record Bush vetoes and the absencea of an actual Dem majority in Congress.)

RESPONSIBILITY is with the GOP for long-standing economic policy that is a much more plausable explaination for general economic collapse than a short list of hand picked causalities. many things "FED" the problem!

as time progresses responsibility will shift to Obama... their job at this point is to ignore the GOP and set things right. it's on them.

if they fail then it is there responsibility regardless of a GOP congress totally incapable of cooperation and hell bent on destroying this president. no very helpful but not in direct control either.

  • 5 votes
#1.18 - Sun Sep 27, 2009 12:23 PM EDT
LindaAllen

Golfermom

You were wondering what Obama has done in addressing the financial meltdown our country averted 9 months ago.....First of all, are you even aware that there are currently 43 of the largest Wall Street Companies under criminal investigation, another 566 for Corporate Fraud, and over 2,000 fraud investigations on-going across the country as of March in the Mortgage Lending Industry.....

And as for regulations, more banking regulations have been initiated in 9 months in a sweeping regulation reform than in the 1930's. Most on the Right are complaining that Obama has done too much, but in doing so, he has stengthened comsumer protection of our money (your's and mine). Banks and private corp lenders can no longer spend cash reserves and depend upon their investors money to keep their doors open, and the Federal Reserve has greater power in moving in and taking over a bank that's assets are in such disoray, that it would risk all the money holders have with them. I'd say all in all, not a bad job in just 9 months, as much as it pains me to say it. Maybe the inmates aren't running the asylum anymore???

  • 5 votes
#1.19 - Sun Sep 27, 2009 12:25 PM EDT
LindaAllen

stormerF

Lets get facts correct here. Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac were not writing sub-prime mortgage loans. And why some continue to blame Bill Clinton is amazing. Either people simply do not understand what caused the sub-prime crisis or they do not want to understand and see the facts for what they are.

Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac are secondary markets for mortgages backed by securities of both private stockholder owned corporations and the Federal Government, Much like the old GI Loan mortgage programs. The problem was that DEREGULATED Banks and private mortgage companies saw an opportunity to sell mortgages to unqualified consumers and then package risky loans to be sold to secondary markets. Those secondary markets were tied to Wall Street and extended into the stock market and it was all based on speculation without any government regulation. Certainly, during the Clinton Administration, new regs were initiated for Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to extend loans and loosen some controls so that first time homebuyers could have an opportunity to buy and make home ownership more affordable, but the legislation NEVER included sub-prime lending. That was a unscrupulous and unregulated Banking industry that did that....and we have all paid the price.

  • 5 votes
#1.20 - Sun Sep 27, 2009 12:44 PM EDT
ROY WILSON-336103

Get The Point "ROY WILSON-336103 -simply put, GOP were in CONTROL"

As Sam so aptly pointed out, the Republican "control" was very limited because their control of the Senate wasn't filibuster proof (unlike the Democrats today, the Republicans had a bare majority), and also, the Democrats have controlled Congress for the last 3 years (during which time the meltdown occurred). Anything that Bush proposed was automatically rejected by the Democrats for purely partisan reasons.

Most of the regulatory changes that caused the problems were initiated during the Clinton Administration.

PS - I NEVER voted for Bush, and I think that he allowed spending to get out of control, but blaming the fiscal crisis on the Bush Tax Cuts is inaccurate. Consider the following;

Nearly all of the conventional wisdom about the Bush tax cuts is wrong. In reality:

  • The tax cuts have not substantially reduced cur­rent tax revenues, which were in fact not far from the 2000 pre–tax cut baseline and over the 2003 pre–tax cut baseline in 2006;
  • The increased child tax credit, 10 percent tax bracket, and fix of the alternative minimum tax (AMT) reduced tax revenues much more than most of the "tax cuts for the rich";
  • Economic growth rates have more than doubled since the 2003 tax cuts; and
  • The tax cuts shifted even more of the income tax burden toward the rich.

Setting optimal tax policy requires governing with facts rather than popular mythology, which is why it is important to set the record straight by debunking 10 myths about the Bush tax cuts.

Ten Myths About the Bush Tax Cuts—and the Facts

Myth #1: Tax revenues remain low.
Fact: Tax revenues are above the historical average, even after the tax cuts.

Myth #2: The Bush tax cuts substantially reduced 2006 revenues and expanded the budget deficit.
Fact: Nearly all of the 2006 budget deficit resulted from additional spending above the baseline.

Myth #3: Supply-side economics assumes that all tax cuts immediately pay for themselves.
Fact: It assumes replenishment of some but not necessarily all lost revenues.

Myth #4: Capital gains tax cuts do not pay for themselves.
Fact: Capital gains tax revenues doubled following the 2003 tax cut.

Myth #5: The Bush tax cuts are to blame for the projected long-term budget deficits.
Fact: Projections show that entitlement costs will dwarf the projected large revenue increases.

Myth #6: Raising tax rates is the best way to raise revenue.
Fact: Tax revenues correlate with economic growth, not tax rates.

Myth #7: Reversing the upper-income tax cuts would raise substantial revenues.
Fact: The low-income tax cuts reduced revenues the most.

Myth #8: Tax cuts help the economy by "putting money in people's pockets."
Fact: Pro-growth tax cuts support incentives for productive behavior.

Myth #9: The Bush tax cuts have not helped the economy.
Fact: The economy responded strongly to the 2003 tax cuts.

Myth #10: The Bush tax cuts were tilted toward the rich.
Fact: The rich are now shouldering even more of the income tax burden.

  • 2 votes
#1.21 - Sun Sep 27, 2009 12:49 PM EDT
SWFLA

Get over whether the repubs or dumbocrats caused it, THEY BOTH DID!!!!!!!!!!!!

There is blame on both sides of the aisle, because these politicians were taking the lobbist's money and getting sweetheart loans, and it's been going on since the S&L failures. The lenders and bankers are crooked, the greed is rampant, there is no effective regulation, and it continues to this day. It melted the economy of this country and the world. There is a foreclosure every 7.5 seconds, most are working stiffs who followed the rules.

Fire the Fed. If they cannot do the job they are suppose to, fire them. They would you, in a heartbeat. It's the fox guarding the hen house. We need effective regulation, not lip service, we need to investigate bankers and lenders for criminal charges. They have hurt this country more than all the terrorists.

There needs to be a new agency, with complete power over all other banking and finance agencies. They need to gain control of these other agencies and then eliminate them all. The abuses were appalling, and a lot of whistle-blowing was ignored, time to pay the piper.

Signed by an appraiser who has watched these abuses for thirty years now. Wake up people, we need term limits on politicians and to start firing and eliminating federal financial agencies that are not doing their job.

  • 6 votes
#1.22 - Sun Sep 27, 2009 1:03 PM EDT
buffalo bob-937857

so we have a conspiracy between the banks and the government that broke our economy and who are we trusting to fix it. one of the conspirators, the government. why? they have messed up our lives to a very great degree. now they need to be replaced. definate term limits and less government intrusion into peoples lives. do you want these idiots in charge of your health care.

  • 1 vote
#1.23 - Sun Sep 27, 2009 1:08 PM EDT
Get The Point

ROY WILSON-336103 -

so, what responsibility does the GOP carry then? NONE? record deficits, both Reagan and Bush, similar "wealth distribution" before the great depression... GOP good. DEM bad.

http://zfacts.com/p/318.html

other than save the world from non-existent WMD, what are the GOP responsible for? GOP just have bad luck i guess!

GOP SS fiscal policy "effectively" redistributed wealth further to the top 10 percent, undermining aggregate middle-class demand. speculation and artificially low interest rates drove home prices skyward. this is what is responsible for our crisis - at the core. simply put, too few had too much and the rest don't have anything to spend. this is the historical result of SS economics. the middle-class was spending DEBT during the bush years!

i don't like all this debt either and i hope for some kind of reversal to the stimulus spending... but A stimulus was TOTALLY understandable (spending/WW2... duh!)

i supported Bush until he proved to be a fool. GOP never opened their mind to the possibility that they might actually have been WRONG. how long and how many times does it take...

you sure make a good argument above... it's a shame this stuff doesn't prove out historically!

  • 3 votes
#1.24 - Sun Sep 27, 2009 1:11 PM EDT
YourNotTheBossOfMeDeleted
D-767068

The FED is a bunch of bankers and rich people who loan the US the money to pay our debt, surprising we bailed out banks and savings in loans.

They are not a "Federal Agency" as claimed in this article. It was essemble by a bunch of bankers and are a PRIVATE CORPORATION.

Read "The Creature of Jekyl Island", it explains the FED.

  • 1 vote
#1.26 - Sun Sep 27, 2009 1:18 PM EDT
YourNotTheBossOfMeDeleted
Get The Point

YourNotTheBossOfMe - your comments hold no logical argument whatsoever. just an appeal to authority - a argumentative fallacy.

Roy's comments are well-conceived RATIONALIZATIONS that do now recognize ---- final outcomes!!! you know, the RESULTS!!!

you are DEAD wrong. open you mind.

i'm going to conclude my argument now because your minds will never open. i have a graduate level business education and i run my own business so i assure you i have considered both sides....

HINT: try looking at things from a macroecomomic perspective and NOT self-serving rationalization.

to all, a good day.

  • 2 votes
#1.28 - Sun Sep 27, 2009 1:25 PM EDT
Get The Point

YourNotTheBossOfMe -

control: 50 dems and 1 independent? record Bush veto? and your argument is NO GOP responsibility?

lol.

as always, without an argument and faced with the facts the GOP (you) turn to name calling...

says it all.

have a good day.

  • 3 votes
#1.29 - Sun Sep 27, 2009 1:35 PM EDT
DB Akron

Roy,

There were at least 10 republicans voting frequently with the democrats on many of the issues especially the finance reform of 2006 (last in a last ditch effort to reform finance before a collapse was imminent). There are only 4 of those left. One has to go back to the Reagan years to find democrats that significantly broke from the Party line.

That's 10 people who ran as conservative republicans who were really moderates.

Believing that Republicans (specifically conservatives) were in complete control is simply delusional.

Note: The democrats have 58 Votes. 2 people are independents who sit and generally vote with them.

Outlook - Whatever Health care is finally written passes on a procedural vote 51-50 or fails with 49 yeahs.

    #1.30 - Sun Sep 27, 2009 1:47 PM EDT
    LindaAllen

    YourNotTheBossOfMe

    Nobody said the Fed did not have some power all along, nor did I say that, .....the Federal Reserve does not make legislation, congress does, and Bush was quick to Veto any legislation that came his way regarding Banking regulations. One would have to have an understanding of finance in order to even remotely understand what caused the sub-prime problem. Just because someone states something is a fact....doesn't mean it is factual. Facts are, deregulation in the banking industry is what led to the crisis, and yes, the Federal Reserve under Greenspan became lax in 2001-2005, Ben Berneke came along in 2006 and by 2007 it was revealed that warnings went ignored from the Federal Trade Commission. But the Federal Trade Commission is the "enforcer" of laws based upon legislation and regulatory initiatives, Not the Federal Reserve. Timothy Muris under President Bush clearly stated he would not expand further regularory initiatives, however, he would focus on enforcement of legislation in effect. That was the whole problem.....due to deregulation, there was NO legislation in effect for Banks and Private Mortgage lenders to write sub-prime loans and package them and sell them off to unsuspecting secondary markets. Now go put on your tin foil hat and maybe you can understand some of what you read.

    • 2 votes
    #1.31 - Sun Sep 27, 2009 1:53 PM EDT
    Stewart Piddas

    The FED is politically controlled, so what do the voters expect the bureaucrats in Washington to do about it? They are busy with their own business, campaigning for the next election and raising more money....

    Not to start and argument, but for those who do not know this, the "FED " is as much "Federal" as Federal Express. It is an unconstitutional private corporation in which no one knows who actually owns it... And IT (the Fed) is what controls the bureaucrats in D.C., not the voters.The Constitution set limits on the federal government, but look how they now 'control' the People with an innumerable and inordinate amount of unconstitutional laws.

    What to do about it? Since it is NOT a Right/Left - Rep/Dem - Lib/Con issue, we need to take heed of what we were warned about from the founders of this Republic, and then take action...

    -----------------

    "The country is headed toward a single and splendid government of an aristocracy founded on banking institutions and monied corporations, and if this tendency continues it will be the end of freedom and democracy, the few will be ruling and riding over the plundered plowman and the beggar...” -- Thomas Jefferson (1743-1826)

    "… I sincerely believe, with you, that banking establishments are more dangerous than standing armies…” -- Thomas Jefferson, writing to John Adams

    "History records that the money changers have used every form of abuse, intrigue, deceit, and violent means possible to maintain their control over governments by controlling money and its issuance." -- James Madison (money changers equates to banksters)

    Also, the Preamble from the Declaration of Independence in its entirety. (emphasis added.)

    ******************

    "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, that whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security."

    ******************

    United States Constitution; Article One, Section 8

    To coin money, regulate the value thereof, and of foreign coin, and fix the standard of weights and measures;

    (Where does it say "print"? And when does "paper" have "weights" or "measures"? Paper "Notes" are not money. Can we say "unjust weight and measures?" Can we say "money changers"? Anything added is just a perversion and a foothold.)

    ----------------------------------

    Like they say, Follow the "money". ~_o

    There is nothing new under the sun...

    • 1 vote
    #1.32 - Sun Sep 27, 2009 2:02 PM EDT
    Mia-327347

    You repugs are a bunch of history re-writing liars. If you go back and really look at the whole picture (meaning facts) you will see that all of this started back with your man Nixon, continued with Reagan on to daddy Bush and came to a complete and thundering disastrous crash with baby Bush.

    The problem being that your entire philosophy is based not on truth, reality or facts but on lies that you keep repeating over and over again until some of the dim-wits out there start believing them. How else do you recruit idiots like JTP and McPalin.

    • 2 votes
    #1.33 - Sun Sep 27, 2009 2:08 PM EDT
    Get The Point

    http://uspolitics.about.com/b/2008/09/18/republican-congress-talked-about-financial-reform-but-did-nothing.htm

    back and forth, back and forth. bla., bla., bla. it's over. now let's all act like thinking adults and find real answers.

    GOP need to act like men and take responsibility.

    the buck stops were? GOP needs to work with THIS president and stop the political antics. America is not better off for it. we would all benefit from a true conservative check-n-balance.

    • 3 votes
    #1.34 - Sun Sep 27, 2009 2:10 PM EDT
    Ward-374799

    Get the Point -- That is the problem, neither party seems to want to work together for the good of the country! Everyone here is pointing fingers in the other direction.

    Name calling doesn't accomplish anything either. Every time someone picks up what needs to be done (i.e. fix Social Security) the monsters get unleashed and in the end nothing gets done. The problem gets pushed down to the next term or president. And the trend goes on. We are faced with a real problem. No money to support anything real soon. Pick a year: 2017, 2036? Does anyone think there will be enough people working to support any social program if everyone is one them all? Or do we just do away with money altogether and everything is free? That seems to be the only way out of the solution we are facing.

    The facts seem to indicate that even if the country gave 100 percent amnesty and naturalization to all the illegals here now (11 million) would we still have enough people working and paying taxes? Or would we just have more people in the lower portion of the tax scale and only contributing SS into the system?

    That may help a bit, but that isn't being used to pay for all the retirees, especially those starting to retire now. Do we just encourage more immigration and hope that having 400 million people in the country will give enough revenue stream to accomplish that? Interesting theory, but I believe that fails because of the lack of resources to support 400 million much less 350 million. Doctors, housing, schools, teachers, police, fire, etc. That all trickles down fast to the local level. I don't think that there is the support for that.

    And the GOP need to act like men? The president told them to shut up and get out of the way from the start! Also Congress has not listened to them one iota! The Democrats have to listen if you want to talk bipartisianship!

    Stop with the blame and name calling. Start with really and truly working together. That means listening to points of view that are different and can work together. Just saying something because it came from someone else can't work is narrow minded. And that stops communications dead in the tracks.

      #1.35 - Mon Sep 28, 2009 7:28 AM EDT
      Randal-27684

      Mia-

      This STARTED with Truman and Roosevelt.

      THEY are the ones who said make more available to those who cannot pay.

        #1.36 - Mon Sep 28, 2009 3:17 PM EDT
        Informedreader

        Randal,

        Please! You really believe that...that proves Mia's point about recruiting.

        First off, social security benefits (which I assume you are primarily talking about) are paid for through payroll deductions - they are not a handout. You could just as easily take the money and put it into a bank account - but since most people would not or even could not be bothered to save for a "rainy" day...the government does it through deductions that are then paid back when you retire. Unless you feel that the portion that employers pay is a handout? Then I suggest you write out a check to your boss or company at the end of every year and repay these ill-begotten gains. Hey don't forget to include the interest.

        Secondly, I am sure that if you were to lose your job tomorrow you would be first in line at the welfare counter...

        • 1 vote
        #1.37 - Mon Sep 28, 2009 5:54 PM EDT
        Jim Hayes-375865

        Roy Wilson,

        As always your post is filled with skewed and one sided statistics. First of all Fannie and Freddie are in the secondary market and loan money to lenders. Fannie and Freddie have been responsible for most of the Urban Renewal in cities from Miami to Seattle, trillions of dollars in income and hundreds of billion in taxes from revitalized urban areas. The primary mover was stopping redlining which is illegal and immoral. Neither entity forces anyone to borrow a nickel from them they allow primary lenders to use their money if they are in compliance. Since 1990 57% of all Freddie money ended up in GOP pocket and 59% of Fannie money, Frank and Dodd have certainly advocated for both but they are scapegated by people such as yourself to a ridiculous degree. Subprimes account for 21% of the US home mortgages Fannie or Freddie back about 60% of the 21% default on Fannie and Freddie backed loans is slightly lower than their counterparts. Fannie and Freddie always used their loans as security the main problem came from financial institutions using mortgage bundles to secure loans when mortgages went bad and prices dropped and were no longer acceptable as security and money stopped flowing. 65% of americans who got subprimes were eligible with credit scores of over 620 they were sold or chose subprimes, often as investment properties. Mortgage failure is not in the top five for bankruptcy loss of healthcare and illness are the run away #1.

        Deregulation the GOP mantra since they overthrouh Teddy Roosevelts trust busting regulation is the primary reason for the current crisis. Repealing Glass Steagall and the prior regulatory roll backs which protected the banking , credit and insurance markets since the Great Depression. Your postings are possibly the single most purposely misleading information on this site. Each and everyone seem well researched and each and every one are poached from Right Wing Disinformation Sites masquerading as Foundations for the public good. It is deliberate and evil.

        JKHayes

          #1.38 - Mon Sep 28, 2009 6:00 PM EDT
          YourNotTheBossOfMeDeleted
          YourNotTheBossOfMeDeleted
          Boudicea

          YourNotTheBoss

          LInda was right. Fannie and Freddie do not write loans at all. They set the guidelines of loans which they will purchase from lenders. They have NEVER been in the business of writing loans. Not ever, ever, ever, ever, ever.

            #1.41 - Thu Oct 1, 2009 9:31 AM EDT
            YourNotTheBossOfMeDeleted
            Boudicea

            YourNOt

            re-read the post I saidt they set the guidelines of loans which they will purchase from lenders. And for your information I have been a mortgage broker for 15 years. I WRITE LOANS WITH LENDERS FOR FANNIE AND FREDDIE ALL DAY, EVERY DAY. So why don't you stop being an ASS and read what you write before you hit the Post Comment button.

            • 1 vote
            #1.43 - Thu Oct 1, 2009 6:43 PM EDT
            YourNotTheBossOfMeDeleted
            Boudicea

            YourNotTheBossofME

            Yes, I am completely responsible. I wrote every single bad loan in America. I also sold every bad health insurance policy in America, and sold every junky used car. I single-handedly ruined all of the pension plans for everyone in the country, too. Wow, for the first time on newsvine I actually found someone I intend to "Ignore"

              #1.45 - Thu Oct 1, 2009 7:31 PM EDT
              PINCH

              kj...

              Isn't it interesting that when some people are confronted with unvarnished truth, they have to find the nastiest way possible to attack the messenger?

              Obviously, Your... has not the foggiest idea of what led to the financial meltdown. He/she is either too young to remember back very far, or has a very short memory.

                #1.46 - Thu Oct 1, 2009 7:37 PM EDT
                Boudicea

                Pinch:

                yeah, what's that saying "You just can't fix stupid!"

                But what really makes me angry is that people who know NOTHING about sub-prime loans buy all the garbage told to them by the media. Sub-prime loans were NOT A BAD THING - they helped many many people. And for the most part, Fannie and Freddie weren't even part of the sub-prime mess.

                  #1.47 - Thu Oct 1, 2009 7:47 PM EDT
                  PINCH

                  kj...

                  Understood. But you can fix uneducated, and I think that's what we have here.

                  The subprime loans were really the least of the problems, as you well know.

                  And from the research that has been done in the last year, the majority of people who are out of their houses were not the subprime group. The largest group were those who went for those stupid ARMS, thinking that they could somehow hit the big time before those things adjusted. Those are the ones who got caught the worst when the bubble burst, because they didn't have a prayer then. It was a huge gamble, worse than the people who were flipping, but when it was the home you were living in, that you were investing in for your family, I can't imagine taking a risk like that.

                  At least in the areas I have checked on, most of the people who got subprime loans were really grateful and worked very hard to keep the home they had always wanted. They also were the ones who took every advantage of the opportunity, working extra jobs, really budgeting, doing everything they could to keep that house. And in most cases they succeeded, and are still in their homes. Some are really struggling, but they are fighting to keep those homes.

                  And yes, for the most part, Fannie and Freddie were more victims than causes. The unregulated private financial sector, led by AIG, BoA and CitiGroup, has been planning this power play for a long, long time, and they pulled it off, to the detriment of this country. What bothers me the moat is that they appear to be starting to play some of the same games they were playing before, and still, there are no real regulations or oversight.

                    #1.48 - Thu Oct 1, 2009 8:32 PM EDT
                    Boudicea

                    PINCH:
                    Yet what really is amazing is that Bank of America was one of the companies who was most tough on underwriting. Getting a loan approved with BofA was always a nightmare. Citi also was tough (except in their sub-prime loan dept)

                      #1.49 - Fri Oct 2, 2009 8:42 AM EDT
                      PINCH

                      kj...

                      BofA and CitiGroup may have seemed tough where you are, but they were the originators of the ARMs, which were a greater cause of the housing bubble and its subsequent burst than the subprimes. They also gobbled up a lot of the credit card industry and when the recession began in 2007, they began to make a killing by adding all kinds of extra fees and things, whether people were good customers or not. A lot of people didn't even know the cards they were holding belonged to these two, since they left the original names out there, but they had the ownership. Now they are also the ones playing dirty in advance of the February 2010 credit card rules.

                      By the way, in 2000, just as I had to relocate again, BofA bought my community bank, and I ended up having to take out a mortgage on my new house with them (my personal banker was part of the deal, although he was planning to leave as soon as he finished up with his old customers). He knew I never did anything but fixed, and my old house was practically paid off, so I was good for a hefty down payment. Even though rates were high, he finagled me a fairly good one, and we did the paper work on the new house before I moved and he sent it to a branch near my new house.

                      When I got there and went in to pick it up, I decided to read through it (don't ask me why - I just do that kind of thing). Even though the papers were signed, my mortgage had been changed to an ARM by the new branch. I had to threaten to call my lawyer to get them to change it back, after they called me "old-fashioned" and said I didn't understand the modern way of doing things (these were managers). This is my 15th mortgage (I have never rented - I like to own my living quarters), so I basically told them to change it or see me in court, since I had copies of the originals I had signed made by my friend. They finally changed it, after I took a lot more verbal abuse. As soon as I could I moved everything out of that bank.

                      I will also add that I had the same problem with them several decades ago when they were convenient to my house an I didn't know any better, and had vowed I would never do business with them again, but I got stuck this time because of the timing of my move. They have always been greedy, and so has CitiGroup.

                      And after first not paying us back (and not intending to), they are starting up the same shady tricks that got us all into trouble just last year. They will not stop this until they are regulated.

                        #1.50 - Sat Oct 3, 2009 6:05 AM EDT
                        Reply
                        gillanator

                        The Fed will never go away. Tha's one of the ways the big boys control us. If Ron Paul were to ever start to make progress with closing down the Fed, he would end up like JFK.

                        • 15 votes
                        Reply#2 - Sun Sep 27, 2009 7:22 AM EDT
                        Stewart Piddas

                        That's a real good attitude to have...

                        NOT!

                        (No offense intended from here on down.)

                        Like the idiom says, "if you're not part of the solution, you are part of the problem."

                        Learn the system and make the changes you can. Be it local, Statewide or across the Union. (BTW - I practice what I preach.)

                        Like a close associate of mine says, and I'll quote him. Though it is a bit crass, but it gets the point across.

                        "If YOU don't stand up for what's right, you'll bend over for everything else!"

                        • 1 vote
                        #2.1 - Sun Sep 27, 2009 2:22 PM EDT
                        gillanator

                        Wow. Intoxicating wisdom. What color is the sky in your world? You may want to take a look at The End Game. Or you may want to take a REAL look at history with the blinders off, pal. You may learn some things. Like the ability to see things as they are not as you wish they would be. Enjoy life in your fantasy world.

                        • 1 vote
                        #2.2 - Sun Sep 27, 2009 5:06 PM EDT
                        Stewart Piddas

                        Last I checked, they were a light shade of blue with a fuzzy white haze, from horizon to horizon, that almost look like clouds... And everybody has some sort of "End Game" they want to tout. Could it be the "plan" was used as a "warning". Or is it the other way around? Or maybe it's all just opinions to keep everyone at each other.

                        History?! Like it's said in the movie "The Matrix", nothing is as it appears... Nothing. The winner writes the history to their favor and liking. Not for accuracy. And even in times of peace! Follow the white rabbit... ---> http://www.realityzone.com/creature.html and http://www.realityzone.com/tragedy.html

                        Unless one is willing to look outside their compartmentalized life, one will only see and perceive what they are told to see and perceive. When one steps outside of their box and sees how the compartments interact, one can then start to gain understanding of the bigger picture. My father was the dreamer. I am the doer. There is always a solution.

                        BTW - The Federal Reserve is not the first central bank that the USA has had. Truth be told, it is the THIRD. The previous two were dismantled by the People, with the help of a few of the Representatives and Senators that were in office at the time. So doing it again would be nothing new. Nobody said it would be easy. However it is quite possible.

                        And "Bulls-eye" regarding Ron Paul. (Pun intended.) However when you dig deep into his ties, he's just another one of them. He's just coming from a different angle. Maybe he would be easier to turncoat against them. Who knows.

                        Have a good one.

                        • 2 votes
                        #2.3 - Sun Sep 27, 2009 8:50 PM EDT
                        Plantsmantx

                        And "Bulls-eye" regarding Ron Paul

                        Another one of whom? Another paleoconservative, but masquerading in a libertarian costume?

                          #2.4 - Sun Sep 27, 2009 8:54 PM EDT
                          Stewart Piddas

                          Ice cold. It goes way beyond the surface BS of politics. This gets into core belief structure and ideology that is not usually presented to the general public. If I give any more info, every blind fool to crack pot will chime in. (To which I would give no response.)

                          As they say, Seek and you shall find. The two books at the links previously posted are a great place to start. Some of my colleagues even refer to the first one as 'the Red Pill'. Just keep digging and be prepared to be shocked and have everything you believe challenged. I'll end with a little phrase that comes to mind, "Everything you know is probably wrong"...

                          • 1 vote
                          #2.5 - Sun Sep 27, 2009 11:26 PM EDT
                          Reply
                          grant-574290

                          This is nonsense. ACORN ,based in Chicago with Bertha Lewis protested in banks and outside directors homes until getting Bill Clinton to sign into law changing Federal regulation regarding home mortgages. This resulted in Home loans becoming a entitlement from the feds. The banks were forced into these subprime loans knowing fully well that the majority had no way of paying back the responsibility. I believe they needed some way to insulate against the inevitable ,they deserved something in return for loaning to these people ---they were a high risk and proved it by bringing down the entire American system. Had the Feds never entered the system to begin with we would not be in this mess. Big Government is not the answer.

                          • 9 votes
                          #3 - Sun Sep 27, 2009 7:39 AM EDT
                          logdump

                          Total horse hockey. You know absolutely nothing about the situation and spout meaningless BS instead of facts. There has never been nor will there ever be any ligislation that ever forced any bank to lend a dime to anyone they felt was not qualified for the loan in the first place and you cannot prove there is so shut up.

                          Basically with the advent of credit default swaps which were instruments that guaranteed payment if a mortgage went sour with no money to back them the subprime lending frenzie took place. All you had to do was get someones name on the papers then sell it to those who were making up these bogus securities and walk away with the cash. All was well until the oil crisis of 140 bucks a barrel. This caused widespread layoffs and an unemployment surge which in turn caused the subprimers to fail. Along with that housing prices declined puting the ball in motion downhill.

                          All this is verified and easy to find on the internet unless you are a paid troll for the bankers who would have you believe they are squeeky clean and it is all sombidy elses fault.

                          • 8 votes
                          #3.1 - Sun Sep 27, 2009 8:13 AM EDT
                          PINCH

                          grant..

                          I would very much appreciate it if you would cite the law that changed home loans into an entitlement. Since I can find no record of any such law being repealed or overridden by any other law, I would like this information to help people who are now losing their homes of many years due to prolonged unemployment and medical catastrophes.

                          A law such as you describe which has the legal clout to declare home ownership an entitlement would help these people, most of whom are seniors or disabled, greatly.

                          Please respond as soon as possible, since I am sure there are others reading this vine who may not be aware of this law.

                          If you cannot give me the actual legal cite number, can you at least give me the year? I have run a check through every law Clinton signed in this area and can't find it. I am either missing it )very possible ) or I am looking in the wrong place. PLEASE HELP .

                          • 5 votes
                          #3.2 - Sun Sep 27, 2009 8:17 AM EDT
                          Bernie-548913

                          grant 574290: You and a lot of other right wingers are hung up on the ACORN kick...You guys blame this organization for all our problems...THAT MUST BE SOME ORGANIZATION!!!! Your comment "The banks were forced into these subprime loand knowing fully well that the majority had no way of paying back the responsbility" is a lot of BULL S.H.I.T.   Banks were not forced to do anythint...bankers greed on how to make a quick buck is the main reason!!!!Blaming ACORN is  just another conspiracy theory being promoted by the right wing!!

                          • 8 votes
                          #3.3 - Sun Sep 27, 2009 8:22 AM EDT
                          Jason-329661

                          Here you go logdump. A brief over view of the law mentioned by grant. He is right, the problems were created by the Feds and the banks in the name of equality.

                          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Community_Reinvestment_Act

                          • 5 votes
                          #3.4 - Sun Sep 27, 2009 8:25 AM EDT
                          Dawn-395840

                          I've read that act more then a few times over the course of this. There is nothing- NOTHING that even mentions handing $400K mortgages to people that make $10 an hour. The phrase

                          in a manner consistent with safe and sound operations

                          appears over and over.

                          Banks were giving higher interest rates to mortgages depending on what neighborhood the home was zoned. Not the credit history or income of the buyer. THAT was what the law was intended to prevent. A black mechanic making $18 an hour with a sound credit history was being charged as much as 9% more then a white WalMart employee making $11 an hour with a 100 point lower credit score. Simply because of the neighborhood the black applicant was looking to buy. Even if that loan was well within the applicants ability to pay back the loan. Certain neighbors were completely denied by banks no matter who wanted to buy the homes.

                          No, this entire sub-prime mess was caused by banks writing mortgages to people that had no hope of making the payments and selling that mortgage to other banks before they defaulted. That was the bottom line. The proof should be in how many people with stellar credit and career history were shoved into these sub-prime loans instead of traditional mortgages. The commission was better.

                          BofA started writing mortgages to illegals. Find something anywhere that says THAT was part of the law.

                          A law that, if it had been followed the way it was intended would have given minorities an equal footing, was taken by corporate bankers and twisted into a free for all that destroyed this nation. Much like the 14th Amendment. Legal loopholes in the name of profit.

                          • 6 votes
                          #3.5 - Sun Sep 27, 2009 8:38 AM EDT
                          Jibaro

                          It's a bad joke.

                          It's all about making money, capitalism gone wild. No regulation, so what do you expect?

                          The answer to all this is very easy, our goverment betrayed us. It's no longer of the people, by the people and for the people. It serves the interest of the very rich and so we end up arguing about insignificant details that they ignore by bringing in the big picture that they only understand. They don't care about the weak, the old or the "joe" that lost his job, and it will continue to be so until we awaken to our reality or until the US falls apart.

                          But, what the heck? In the next election we will elect or re-elect a fine group of millionares or wannabees to fatten their pockets so that the saga can continue.

                          You want to know whos fall it is? Well it's our fault because we closed our eyes and allowed all this to happen. It's our fault because the biggest traitor the US ever had completed his term in office and walks around scot free without a worry and we do nothing about it. It's not the banks fault, or Greenspan or whoever. They are just parasites in a body without antibodies.

                          • 4 votes
                          #3.6 - Sun Sep 27, 2009 8:38 AM EDT
                          had-enough-470242

                          If you look at this way, you can say everyone have profited or benefit off banks preying the low income.

                          Banks predatory lending to the poor and making a killing, employees employed by banks making record commissions, real estate agents who with 1 month of schooling ended up making 25-60k per year, people's pensions and 401k that is tied to the ever growing stock market watched their profits grow, home owner's home value grew, etc........

                          Everyone benefited from this excess and greed. I bet if the government makes it harder for banks to continue to make subprime mortgages, then banks will just have lobbyists go to congress to change laws again. I know banks want to take over pawnshop's businesses

                          • 3 votes
                          #3.7 - Sun Sep 27, 2009 9:00 AM EDT
                          ModerationInAllThings

                          Logdump is dumping...

                          Entitlement and easy credit was made easy, legislatively. Bush warned in 2003 that this was a huge mistake, and would be disasterous (no, not a Bushy fan). The banks had to accept this legislation as a way of life, and yes, they knew section 8 and entitlement would hit the fan.

                          But, they peddled it with all Their might, knowing how it would end, and Phenomenal amounts of advertising money was spent shoveling it into our mailboxes... they did indeed push this as hard as a prison inmate does on a younger inmate.

                          So, it's wrong on ALL levels... the entitlement, section 8 garbage was bull, it shouldn't have been enacted. Lowering credit standards shouldn't have been enacted, and it was done to appease some for the wrong reasons. Nothing to do with oil prices. But no surprise, of course the Fed Reserve and banks raped... quick cash, TBTF already known, guilt all around.

                          • 2 votes
                          #3.8 - Sun Sep 27, 2009 9:55 AM EDT
                          clb-462357

                          logdump There has never been nor will there ever be any ligislation that ever forced any bank to lend a dime to anyone they felt was not qualified for the loan in the first place and you cannot prove there is so shut up...All was well until the oil crisis of 140 bucks a barrel. This caused widespread layoffs and an unemployment surge which in turn caused the subprimers to fail.
                          PINCH I would very much appreciate it if you would cite the law that changed home loans into an entitlement. Since I can find no record of any such law being repealed or overridden by any other law, I would like this information to help people who are now losing their homes of many years due to prolonged unemployment and medical catastrophes.

                          There is no specific "law". There is specific "legislation".

                          Logdump...The price of Oil at 140 bucks a barrel occurred in June of 2008, Unemployment was at 5.4%, still below the statistical averages. Unemployment didn't start surging until the end of 2008 at which time Oil prices were down $32-39/bbl. Oil Prices in Jun 2003 were at $30/bbl but unemployment was at 6.3%. Today oil prices are at $69/bbl and unemployment is at 9.7% and still climbing. I don't think that oil had really anything to do with why the mortgage crisis happened.

                          Pinch..The majority of individuals who have or are losing homes are not individuals who have "prolonged unemployed" and most do not have "medical catastrophes". They are individuals that cannot afford their high-interest subprime loans and had no business getting a loan in the first place and those individuals who took out Home Equity loans. Under normal circumstances, without the intervention of the federal government, banks would have NEVER made these type of loan. Most of the foreclosures were newer home mortgages, not individuals who have been in their homes for several years. Majority of foreclosures were subprime (not fixed interest rate), not prime loans (fixed interest rates).

                          You two really want to know how we got into this mortgage crisis?

                          Fannie and Freddie finance about 40 percent of all U.S. mortgages. Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac are two government agencies who created, and remain highly involved in, the secondary market for mortgage-backed securities. They now own or guarantee about $1.4 trillion, or 40%, of all U.S. mortgages, with $168 billion in subprime mortgages. You might do research on how the two agencies supported the secondary market, which is supposed to help low-income families realize the dream of homeownership, and how that turned into the nightmare of the subprime mortgage crisis.

                          The subprime mortgage crisis started because banks and mortgage companies packaged risky loans and resold them on the secondary market, which was created by the legislation that created Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.

                          The Legislation you are looking for and both clearly need to read to educate yourself on what actually caused this crisis are:

                          In 1977, the Carter Administration and the Congress passed and signed the Community Reinvestment Act of 1977

                          In 1999, the Clinton Administration and the Congress passed and signed the Financial Modernization Act, commonly called the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act

                          One would have thought after the Real Estate market crashed in the 80's along with the Oil Industry & S&L's who were paying out more on CD & Savings interest then they were getting in on Loan interest (all thanks to Carter's Administration which started this ball running) that they would have reversed his policies and made it harder for individuals to acquire lending. But no, the mentality in DC that everyone should have a home regardless of whether they can afford it continued, by both parties. So here we are again...

                          • 1 vote
                          #3.9 - Sun Sep 27, 2009 10:25 AM EDT
                          Mary-268849

                          I agree with part of what your saying....Maybe in the beginning of this housing mess, many lost their homes because they bit off more than they could chew, but now, what I am seeing, everyday, are people losing their homes because of job loss. They can't even rent a home on unemployment insurance. So many people are simply going bankrupt...and giving up their homes. It's a bigger mess than we think..at least from where I sit. I really thought it would level off by now, but it appears to be worse. What I can't figure out is, what are these mortgage companies doing with all these houses? And when they auction them off...it's at a major loss......OR IS IT? A year ago, many mortgage companies were doing what they could to keep people in their homes. Some folks were seven, eight months behind in their mortgage. Now the foreclosures are running rampant...why? Someone mentioned to me that these homes, facing foreclosure, are insured by the mortgage company..when the foreclosure happens, the mortgage company receives insurance funds for the home...then they are still able to sell the home at a supposed loss, and still make money. I have not been able to prove or disprove this, but it would be interesting to find out if this was true. I am wondering if the Obama Plan for distressed Mortgages, is what this is about? Certainly, for a mortgage company to take a risk on a homeowner, at an affordable mortgage payment, and keep them in their home, the mortgage company would have to have some sort of assurance or would that be "insurance"? By the way, I really don't know anyone who has benefited from the "Obama Plan". Sure would like to hear from someone who has.

                          • 3 votes
                          #3.10 - Sun Sep 27, 2009 10:55 AM EDT
                          msongDeleted
                          Chris Kurz

                          What ever happened to "SELF RESPONSIBILITY"? Yes banks were offering people larger loans than they could afford, but it is also borrowers responsibility to realise that they can not afford a $2,000 a month house payment on $10 and hour! Maybe its time Americans start looking in the mirror and stop pointing fingers! If you are too ignorant to realize someone is taking advantage of you, then you deserve it!

                          • 2 votes
                          #3.12 - Sun Sep 27, 2009 11:29 AM EDT
                          PINCH

                          clb...

                          I am quite familiar with both of the Acts you have cited. Nowhere in either of these is any language requiring any financial institution to deliberately make a loan to a person who does not qualify under the same standards used previously for certifying a mortgage. There are no penalties for rejecting a mortgage which does not meet certain standards of legitimate lending practices.

                          The initial wave of foreclosures was indeed people who bought beyond their means, and contrary to your opinion, they were not all minorities. After two years of deep recession, this is no longer the case. In my community, and many others I am in touch with, people are losing homes they have been in on fixed mortgages for over ten years. No income means no payments. A lawsuit resulting from a medical emergency (no employment equals no insurance) which garnishes the wages and collects the assets equals no payments.

                          There are dozens of scenarios. These are people from all walks of life who planned correctly and did all the right things. Wiith no job, they cannot refinance, even if that would help them save their homes by lowering their interest rates.

                          And again, relative to the Acts, if there is a riot in the streets, and the windows get broken on jewelry stores, electronics stores, etc., are you saying that the people who just walk in and help themselves to all the goodies are entitled because the conditions (read "Acts") made this largess possible?

                          • 3 votes
                          #3.13 - Sun Sep 27, 2009 12:12 PM EDT
                          tactical45

                          grant574290-- Banks were NOT required by anyone at anytime to make bad loans. Nor did anyone but the corporate thieves ok the credit default swaps that were issued. You don't know what you are talking about.

                          • 2 votes
                          #3.14 - Sun Sep 27, 2009 1:20 PM EDT
                          Mia-327347

                          What ever happened to "SELF RESPONSIBILITY"? Yes banks were offering people larger loans than they could afford, but it is also borrowers responsibility to realise that they can not afford a $2,000 a month house payment on $10 and hour! Maybe its time Americans start looking in the mirror and stop pointing fingers! If you are too ignorant to realize someone is taking advantage of you, then you deserve it!

                          That is a load of hogwash! If people were responsible we wouldn't need half of the laws on the books.

                          • 1 vote
                          #3.15 - Sun Sep 27, 2009 3:18 PM EDT
                          Plantsmantx

                          This is nonsense. ACORN ,based in Chicago with Bertha Lewis protested in banks and outside directors homes until getting Bill Clinton to sign into law changing Federal regulation regarding home mortgages.

                          What law are you talking about?

                            #3.16 - Sun Sep 27, 2009 8:55 PM EDT
                            Reply
                            Pifco

                            Several times in this article multimillion dollar fines are reported.

                            This is another way our government is ripping off its citizens.

                            We are constantly abused by entities who break the laws and when we or our advocates spend the time, money, and effort to protect ourselves the perpetrators are FINED.

                            THE GOVERNMENT GETS THE MONEY (WHICH IS ULTIMATELY BILLED TO THE CONSUMER AS A COST OF DOING BUSINESS) AND THE VICTIM GETS THE BILL!

                            In the matter of a fine, consider this:

                            In another point of view the fine might be (though not legally) construed as a BRIBE.

                            Google up Fed scam and see what has transpired at the hands of banksters in recent history.

                            I would add another person at the beginning of this list.............Jesus Christ.

                            Christ did expel the moneylenders from the temple and the system got the mob (not the Gambino family) to put him to death.

                            Some things never change.

                            • 4 votes
                            Reply#4 - Sun Sep 27, 2009 7:42 AM EDT
                            Bernie-548913

                            Pifco: another conspiracy theory with no evidence to back it up except pure speculation.

                            • 2 votes
                            #4.1 - Sun Sep 27, 2009 8:23 AM EDT
                            William Root

                            Our elected royalty is immune from their actions that affect americans. They're set for life with their retirement/benefit package that's guaranteed by law! We'll print money to pay them their benefits, no matter how bad the rest of the country is doing under their "leadership". Even if they have been convicted of using their elected office illegally for personal gain! There are 20 elected officials still getting their retirement/ benefit perks even though they have been convicted of crimes (Cunningham, Rostenkowski, etc.)! This is all politicians, not dems, or repubs, party has nothing to do with greed. Those who were in charge of the Madoff investigation apologized and said it won't happen in the future. Why are they still employed, and being paid with our tax dollars? Our financial system nearly collapsed after our elected royalty did away with the regulations that made what caused the disaster "illegal" previously! Why haven't they been reinstated? Remember when they were talking about scrapping social security for a stock plan? Imagine if that had been implemented!!! But again our elected royalty would not have been affected by it. The government fines billion dollar corporations and none of those fines go to the american people who were actually hurt by those corporations. Term limits are not the answer, their greed will only grow knowing they just have a set time to take advantage of their office's power, and influence. If those seeking public office are doing so to serve our great country and its people. They should have no problem with their financial's being under a microscope from the time they take office until they leave, I'm talking about personal, and business. Face it, the only reason we're in this mess is the greed of those in elected office. Shine the light of truth on their financials and watch the problems disappear. And stop paying benefits to those who have been convicted of illegally profiting from their elected office. How stupid are we to put up with that? I don't have all the answers, but a blind man can see the problems. And they all start and end with those in elected office.

                            • 4 votes
                            #4.2 - Sun Sep 27, 2009 8:56 AM EDT
                            Bernie-548913

                            William Root: if bull s.h.i.t was an instrument, you would be a marching band!!!

                            • 1 vote
                            #4.3 - Sun Sep 27, 2009 8:59 AM EDT
                            Chris Kurz

                            Hey Bernie, all you do is heckle, try enlightening us with your ignorance. Do you still have the "I voted Obama" sticker on your Prius?

                            Me I have a Calvin peeing on a "big eared" grinning Obama head. Looks good on my Land Rover.

                              #4.4 - Sun Sep 27, 2009 11:37 AM EDT
                              tactical45

                              Chris Kurz--IF you have a land rover, it just points out how YOU made a bad choise in vehicles. And, the fact you have the calvin on the rear shows your need for a basic education.

                              • 2 votes
                              #4.5 - Sun Sep 27, 2009 1:33 PM EDT
                              telmom32

                              Linda Allen...Fannie Mae and Feddie Mac were buying these bad debt loans up from the lenders and packaging them into very unstable instruments and labeling them as safe. This is the biggest fraud of the whole mess and why the sub-prime went global as well as trashed many retirement accounts and education funds. Had they not gotten creative in their own way banks would not have the market to pass on any high risk or questionable loans.

                                #4.6 - Sun Sep 27, 2009 3:31 PM EDT
                                LindaAllen

                                telmom32

                                You absolutely do not know what you are talking about. Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac did not buy any loans. They were the government entity and partial shareholder entity that underwrites mortgage loans. Borrowers were offered an array of loans with sub-prime rates who would not normally qualify for conventional loans through independent private mortgage companies, savings and loans, and banks. In 2002 when George Bush signed the "renewing the dream" bill that gave 2.4 billion dollars in tax credits to builders and investors for low income housing programs, mortgage companies went crazy with creative financing. Then packaged "bundled' high risk loans they made to be undewritten by Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae. In 2003 George Bush enacted the "american dream downpayment act" with still no oversight into what was happening with Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae. Unscrupulous lenders were writing loans faster than Freddie or Fannie could underwrite, and henseforth the problem. Because the mortgage industry was so closely tired to Wall street and the stock market, banks and S&L's bundled even more and sent spectulators on Wall Street to continue to even further package mortgages over seas. So get your facts straight...small banks and private mortgage companies caused the crisis, DUE TO DE-REGULATION!!!! Because they could!!! Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae were underwriters as secondary lenders for customers with less than prime credit....banks and mortgage companies created sub-prime scemes on the backs of Freddie and Fannie who were already over their head, but they never bought loans.....

                                • 2 votes
                                #4.7 - Sun Sep 27, 2009 5:55 PM EDT
                                William Root

                                Bernie-548913

                                William Root: if bull s.h.i.t was an instrument, you would be a marching band!!!

                                Wow! You really picked me apart with that detailed analysis of the points I made! I can't put a face with your name, which muppet are you?

                                  #4.8 - Mon Sep 28, 2009 6:20 AM EDT
                                  telmom32

                                  Linda Allen...You are wrong. Their purpose is to purchase loans form lenders so Lenders have fresh capitol to lend. Fannie, Freddie and others then combine and repackage these loans and sell them as investment instruments. It is the secondary mortgage market. They were supposed to operate under reasonable guidelines that would cover the risk of loss with bad loans. Instead they gambled imprudently and crashed the system with little oversight on the loans they were actually accepting. Lenders could not have gotten so creative or promoted such widespread fraud if Fannie, Freddie and the like were truly serving their purpose in reasonable security creation.

                                  Do you feel empowered by spreading false information or do you just subscribe to the propaganda line of the left?

                                  If you want to play tit for tat with legislation then let us look at the Community Reinvestment Act signed by Carter. This legislation strong armed banks to open in blighted areas and promote high risk loans in order to get necessary approval to operate in more prosperous areas. If Banks didn't hold the proper ratio of bad debt on their books from these blighted areas they were turned down for expansion in growth areas. Clinton actually further deteriorated the option at prudent and reasonable risk by encouraging even higher ratio of risk on lenders. This made it necessary for Fannie, Freddie and the like to ease restrictions on loans they would purchase and gave then to latitude to restructure them into securities that on paper looked good but not really.

                                  The aspect of oversight was certainly brought to light and shot down by Barney Frank who claimed these were sound entities. Of course we know this is not true as they ultimately went into conservator-ship.

                                  As for your references to GWB. In addition to the above efforts to get alternative funding to middle and low income families he also increased the funding for Habitat for Humanity by over $400 billion dollars. The commitment to improve individual living situation was there but the efforts on the part of lender, borrower, federal government as well as Fannie, Freddie and the like was nothing more than individual greed based on personal entitlement backed up by misplaced federal legislation to try to shackle the basic principles of capitalism.

                                  • 1 vote
                                  #4.9 - Tue Sep 29, 2009 11:17 AM EDT
                                  Boudicea

                                  telmom

                                  You are absolutely correct, but prepared to be skewered by those who say the CRA did nothing of the sort (as I was the last couple of days)

                                    #4.10 - Tue Sep 29, 2009 11:54 AM EDT
                                    telmom32

                                    kjmstisz...they can say anything they like but it still doesn't make the information true.

                                      #4.11 - Tue Sep 29, 2009 12:05 PM EDT
                                      Reply
                                      ivan, NC

                                      It looks to me as though not only th Fed needs to be reeled in but also our congress if they feel that siding with wall street is the only way to go..which so far that is what they continue to do. Congress has put in place to much of a political front on every part of our government...that needs to stop....I feel that will only happent though...when we start voting out the politicans we have now ....and place term limits on all new ones. The Fed made one huge blunder after the other.....and our congress followed right along on its own....new rules need to be in place that control not only the Fed but also congress.

                                      • 1 vote
                                      Reply#5 - Sun Sep 27, 2009 7:54 AM EDT
                                      CCHUCK

                                      Whose fault is this really? Greed drove banks to start this sub-prime mess!

                                      Don't blame anyone except those in charge!

                                      ....Republicans were, but now they are pointing the finger at Dodd and others...

                                      RULE NUMBER ONE - ALWAYS BLAME SOMEONE ELSE!

                                      • 2 votes
                                      Reply#6 - Sun Sep 27, 2009 8:02 AM EDT
                                      logdump

                                      Who deregulated the financial industry? Phil Graham who was McCains financial director at one time and his bill that was stuck in a gigantic government operating bill at the end of Clintons term that he had to sign or leave office with the Government unable to pay its bills.

                                      The Fed is out of touch and needs to go. As Chairman Greenspan said he thought the industry could regulate itself and he was surprised to see they could not. This indicates the masterminds in the fed were happy to see the deregulation in effect and if they thought that was a good idea they have there heads stuck up the stinky part of their bodies and should not even be in control of a piggy bank.

                                      What are we going to do? Nothing...... We went through some tough times before and did nothing. We had the stock market crash and the depression the savings and loan scandals other mionor crashes and we always sit on our hands and let the bankers have their way. Same thing will happen this time. May take a little longer and they may need to hire more trolls and talking heads to deflect the truth but they will be in charge just like before. Money controls everything and they are in charge of it.

                                      • 2 votes
                                      #6.1 - Sun Sep 27, 2009 8:23 AM EDT
                                      George-1234Deleted
                                      George-1234Deleted
                                      stormerF

                                      logdump...........Clinton signed the deregulation of banks. What the Media deos not want you to know is that Bush went to congress 17 times and warned them of the comming problem,and they ignored him. In 2006 the Democrats took over congress why did they not do something to head off the problem? No they continued to allow Barney Frank and Chris Dodd, Chuck Schumer,Charles Rangel and Maxine Waters to lie cheat and steal for and with Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac instead of reigning them in.

                                        #6.4 - Sun Sep 27, 2009 12:31 PM EDT
                                        William Root

                                        If you had a wealthy relative who was handling their finances as badly as our elected officials are handling our country's. You could have them legally declared incompetent to handle their finances in any state in the union! Since we know their not all nuts, they must be corrupt!

                                          #6.5 - Mon Sep 28, 2009 6:27 AM EDT
                                          Reply
                                          GCHGA

                                          Those at fault are Congress and the Fed. Both knew what was going on and what would happen and chose for almost a decade to ignore it. If accountability was forced here no-one in the Fed and almost everyone in Congress and the present and past Administrations would be at fault and tried for treason against their country and it's people. There is no real two party system anymore and real change won't take place till Congress is voted out and replaced with new blood. Probably would take several elections to do so effectively.

                                                 We are growing short on time to accomplish this so get started in 2010 or we can kiss our viability as a world leader good-bye.

                                            Reply#7 - Sun Sep 27, 2009 8:28 AM EDT
                                            tactical45

                                            Stupid politicos. The blame is in the hands of the greedy corporations. They want a one world economy. They can move to any country where there are no laws governing them, labor is cheap, and they pay no taxes. Many of you play political games and never see the forest for the trees. If government doesn't find a way to regulate these profiteers, all is lost.

                                              #7.1 - Sun Sep 27, 2009 1:41 PM EDT
                                              Reply
                                              Bill-901060

                                              The Fed is part of the problem, so of course they weren't policing their own.

                                              • 1 vote
                                              Reply#8 - Sun Sep 27, 2009 8:30 AM EDT
                                              rick-730834

                                              the FED is a private bank...not a government agency,until you realise what this means you will continue believing the fed is legit.

                                              Congress and Wodrow Wilson SOLD US OUT...Its a takeover from the original role of the Treasury,{1913}a heist and an interest rate "ponzi" scheme...with your tax dollars being paid on EXPONENTIAL DEBT

                                              they are the real rulers behind every crisis and political system that has been put in place since the Great Depression they are the real owners of America and WallStreet and both political parties answer to them.

                                              they answer to know one and have never been audited...

                                              • 2 votes
                                              Reply#9 - Sun Sep 27, 2009 8:33 AM EDT
                                              Rhonda Lucky-296458

                                              To CCHUCK:

                                              Apparently, you are unaware of the following facts: The "vaunted" New York Times newspaper published an article on 30 September 1999, during the Clinton administration, titled "Fannie Mae Eases Credit To Aid Mortgage Lending." That newspaper, a liberal mouthpiece, stated "Fannie Mae, the nation's biggest underwriter of home mortgages, has been under INCREASING PRESSURE FROM THE CLINTON ADMINISTRATION to expand mortgage loans among low and moderate income people…to individuals whose credit is generally not good enough to qualify for conventional loans…In moving, even tentatively, into this new area of lending, Fannie Mae is taking on significantly more risk..In July, the Department of Housing and Urban Development proposed that by the year 2001, 50 percent of Fannie Mae's and Freddie Mac's portfolio be made up of loans to low and moderate-income borrowers."

                                              A subsequent New York Times article titled "New Agency Proposed to Oversee Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae" was published on 11 September 2003, during the Bush administration. It stated "The Bush administration today recommended the MOST SIGNIFICANT REGULATORY OVERHAUL in the housing industry since the savings and loan crisis a decade ago…The plan is an acknowledgement by the administration that oversight of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac – which together have issued more than $1.5 trillion in outstanding debt – is broken…Among the groups denouncing the proposal today were the National Association of Home Builders and CONGRESSIONAL DEMOCRATS who fear that tighter regulation of the companies could sharply reduce their commitment to financing low-income and affordable housing…'These two entities – Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac – are not facing any kind of financial crisis,' said Barney Frank of Massachusetts, the ranking Democrat on the Financial Services Committee. 'The more people exaggerate these problems, the more pressure there is on these companies, the less we will see in terms of affordable housing.' Representative Melvin L. Watt, Democrat of North Carolina, agreed."

                                              So, according to the "vaunted" New York Times, the Democrats created this financial mess, while the Republicans tried to fix it. But the Democrats blocked Republican efforts to do the right thing.

                                              Now do you get it? Or will your Sesame Street mentality prompt you to spew more reckless nonsense? The fact is that YOU violated your own RULE NUMBER ONE - ALWAYS BLAME SOMEONE ELSE! It's apparent that YOU'VE blamed someone else! What hypocrisy!!

                                              • 4 votes
                                              Reply#10 - Sun Sep 27, 2009 8:34 AM EDT
                                              GCHGA

                                              Don't banter us with the facts. It's easier to follow blindly. I might even have to vote so I can cover my own accountability.

                                              The time to do something other than sit on your a$$ and whine is now America.

                                              Vote in 2010 and start a non-violent revolution before a real one sets in.

                                              • 1 vote
                                              #10.1 - Sun Sep 27, 2009 8:53 AM EDT
                                              Smuhamm

                                              We will have world peace, like it or not follow your heart

                                                #10.2 - Sun Sep 27, 2009 9:19 AM EDT
                                                Surfsup

                                                Good Post Rhonda, isn't it amazing that the same elected Officials/Party that got us in the mess are now the ones in charge of fixing it.....Kinda like the Fox watching the Hen House..Transforming a new America - Change you can Believe In - Yes We Can..

                                                2010 Vote the Whole Bunch Out....

                                                • 2 votes
                                                #10.3 - Sun Sep 27, 2009 9:34 AM EDT
                                                tactical45

                                                Ronda Lucky? or is it Ann Coulter? You tell half truths and serve them up as the whole.

                                                • 1 vote
                                                #10.4 - Sun Sep 27, 2009 1:44 PM EDT
                                                Rhonda Lucky-296458

                                                tactical45:

                                                Your comment about me is vacuous and simply stupid; it contains nothing of substance (you failed to present a single constructive thought).

                                                In contrast, my post is thoroughly documented while yours contains preposterous allegations with no supporting evidence. Anyone can look up the New York Times articles I cited on a google search.

                                                Please visit a library and read some books and newspapers.

                                                • 1 vote
                                                #10.5 - Sun Sep 27, 2009 4:55 PM EDT
                                                Plantsmantx

                                                As the economy worsens and Election Day approaches, a conservative campaign that blames the global financial crisis on a government push to make housing more affordable to lower-class Americans has taken off on talk radio and e-mail.
                                                Commentators say that's what triggered the stock market meltdown and the freeze on credit. They've specifically targeted the mortgage finance giants Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, which the federal government seized on Sept. 6, contending that lending to poor and minority Americans caused Fannie's and Freddie's financial problems.

                                                Federal housing data reveal that the charges aren't true, and that the private sector, not the government or government-backed companies, was behind the soaring subprime lending at the core of the crisis.

                                                Subprime lending offered high-cost loans to the weakest borrowers during the housing boom that lasted from 2001 to 2007. Subprime lending was at its height from 2004 to 2006.

                                                Federal Reserve Board data show that:

                                                • More than 84 percent of the subprime mortgages in 2006 were issued by private lending institutions.
                                                • Private firms made nearly 83 percent of the subprime loans to low- and moderate-income borrowers that year.
                                                • Only one of the top 25 subprime lenders in 2006 was directly subject to the housing law that's being lambasted by conservative critics

                                                http://www.mcclatchydc.com/251/v-print/story/53802.html

                                                ..read the rest.

                                                  #10.6 - Sun Sep 27, 2009 5:11 PM EDT
                                                  Reply
                                                  Yevrah Kahn-1303534

                                                  This goes back to carter's time in office when ACORN pushed congress to give loans to people who really could not afford them, that was the beginning and then the banks saw a way to make huge profits and the fed just sat back and did nothing - just like madock, stealing billions of dollars, who in the fed got paid off from him, has the IRS done any checking into acounts buy the feds and maybe some in congress.

                                                  • 1 vote
                                                  Reply#11 - Sun Sep 27, 2009 8:57 AM EDT
                                                  Plantsmantx

                                                  In 1977, the Carter Administration and the Congress passed and signed the Community Reinvestment Act of 1977

                                                  This goes back to carter's time in office when ACORN pushed congress to give loans to people who really could not afford them,

                                                  One more zombie lie. Loans granted under the CRA were less likely to be subprime, and they performed better.

                                                    #11.1 - Sun Sep 27, 2009 3:38 PM EDT
                                                    Reply
                                                    jovoneskincareDeleted
                                                    Smuhamm

                                                    Keep following and blaming ACORN and it will lead you to the FED's, Open your eyes folks, mentalities come from the top not the bottom, conditions are set up for those at the bottom to be the fall guys, why do you think that the spot light was shone on ACORN, to get your mind and thoughts and need for investigations off of what is coming down on the FED's. This is how they work, Shine the light on someone else so that they do not get noticed. Change is on it's way the more you go after the poor, and downstrodden the more the fingers will point back to you. and we will all see the WHOLE body of corruptions, deceptions, abuses, and their strategy to blame others and not themselves. We the people will no longer be duped, deceieved, blinded or lead. Our eyes are opening faster than the FED's thought, we are the ones that have allowed the FED's to do what they have done to us by keeping our eyes closed, scared, slaves and falling for the bait that they have put out there for you to focus on. Wake up folks, Wake up....it's time.

                                                      Reply#13 - Sun Sep 27, 2009 9:14 AM EDT
                                                      epc-1370311

                                                      I've heard the same complaint brought up time and time again in regards to higher interest rates for minorities making similar income as whites, but rarely, if ever, is a disparity in credit score mentioned. Hmmm, maybe there is no meat behind the article or complaint if the likliness to repay (credit score) is shown to be very low amongst a majority of the minority borrowers. The govt encouraged banks to extend credit to minority borrowers, but did they think the banks were going to do it for no profit if their credit scores stunk?? Sure, one could argue that anyone with low credit scores should have never received loans in the first place, but that is not what the bureaucrats wanted. For once, I wish this information were brought to light since everyone knows all banks extend credit based largely on credit scores and credit scores have proven to not only be non-discriminatory, but a great indicator as to whether or not someone actually intends to be accountable for the money they borrowed.

                                                        Reply#14 - Sun Sep 27, 2009 9:26 AM EDT
                                                        PragmaticToAFault

                                                        The other factor in lending to minorities that this article doesn't mention is the fact that typically, housing values in minority areas are less stable due to a variety of different factors, not least among them crime and drug use. Not ALL, I didn't say ALL. I'm saying, in general.

                                                        The bank's risk exposure is directly proportionate to the value of the home versus the amount lent for purchase.

                                                        Which brings up another rather important factor: Were the minorities that were being discriminated against putting down the same percentage in down payment?

                                                        I'm not saying there wasn't discriminiation, because I'm sure there was. What I'm suggesting, is that once again this liberal mouthpiece wants to skip over very key parts of a story to make their point appear stronger.

                                                        When all we really need to know, IMO, is that the FED failed - which we already knew.

                                                        The 10 trillion dollar question is, what if anything will be done about it?

                                                        • 1 vote
                                                        #14.1 - Sun Sep 27, 2009 10:06 AM EDT
                                                        BlackandProud

                                                        Take that racist statement, and shove it up .......!  What, all whites live in mansions, don't use drugs, and have good credit.  I think not.  Banks blantantly discrimminated against minority borrowers when all factors were the same time and time again.  They were caught at it, and now you want to find a asinine statement to justified that.

                                                        People of all ethnicities were borrowing money hand over fist; when the party ended, they got caught up with an inflated price for their homes, that the market could not sustain.

                                                        The real crisis, I belive is that when is the government going to help the people who stayed in the homes and tough it out.

                                                        • 2 votes
                                                        #14.2 - Sun Sep 27, 2009 12:00 PM EDT
                                                        stormerF

                                                        TARP has been a failure in Job creaation and to stop the foreclosure on homes.Only Obama's Wall street friends made it out with millions,Just look at the Stimulis,and AIG Bonuses.

                                                        • 1 vote
                                                        #14.3 - Sun Sep 27, 2009 12:37 PM EDT
                                                        PragmaticToAFault

                                                        How is it racist to say some minority neighborhoods have lower property values than surrounding areas, and a harder time maitaining the property values because of other problems that plague minority communities? The portion of the article I was addressing was discussing minority lending.

                                                        I happen to live less than a mile from one such area, and about 2 miles from another. The statistics are in the regional daily newspaper all the time. There are community groups in both areas fighting hard to get the crime and drugs off their streets, to clean up houses that have fallen into disrepair, and to keep their kids in school, THEY recognize the issue. To not do so, and pull the race card, is being willfully blind.

                                                        And please quote where I said, white areas never have the same issues? You can't because I didn't. Again statistics will point to the fact that only about 13% of the population of the country is black, and even if every single person in that 13% defaulted on a mortgage, it could not have created the problem of the magnitude that we've experienced. OF COURSE millions of other people borrowed what they couldn't afford - not just blacks.

                                                        The true racist is the one that sees racism everywhere. Look in the mirror.

                                                          #14.4 - Sun Sep 27, 2009 12:46 PM EDT
                                                          Reply
                                                          Tad-401841

                                                          The Fed Reserve's stocks are owned by private banks both domestic and foreign. That alone is enough to tell the real story without any further details.

                                                            Reply#15 - Sun Sep 27, 2009 9:28 AM EDT
                                                            Frank Bus

                                                            The FED didn't BARK, why they didn't even turn their minds or mouth ON. They sit on their rumps, eating the voters food and drink, play cards, and let the other collies watch the store....Then pass the buck when the bill turns up....

                                                              Reply#16 - Sun Sep 27, 2009 9:30 AM EDT
                                                              Chuck T.

                                                              Welcome to America...........when will all this corruption stop ? it won't !!! thats how capitalism works my friends now go back to your reality shows or your petty arguments on this news site and wag you useless fingers at each other. Welcome to America !

                                                              • 2 votes
                                                              Reply#17 - Sun Sep 27, 2009 9:35 AM EDT
                                                              Surfsup

                                                              Chuck T...

                                                              Which is it you either want less corruption, or more chance to participate in it. Unfortunately our elected Officials both Parties seem to want the latter...They all need to go.....

                                                              • 2 votes
                                                              #17.1 - Sun Sep 27, 2009 9:50 AM EDT
                                                              Chuck T.

                                                              The writing has been on the wall for a long time however, America is too tired , too busy and too indebit to do a damn thing about the current situation, it is an exercise in futility and can't be changed .

                                                              • 1 vote
                                                              #17.2 - Sun Sep 27, 2009 10:27 AM EDT
                                                              Surfsup

                                                              "Chuck your (MIND)", n. A mysterious form of matter secreted by the brain. Its chief activity consists in the endeavor to ascertain its own nature, the futility of the attempt being due to the fact that it has nothing but itself to know itself with.

                                                              • 1 vote
                                                              #17.3 - Sun Sep 27, 2009 10:58 AM EDT
                                                              Jason-329661

                                                              Chuck

                                                              This is not capitalism. This is a form of socialism, or corporationism. If this was true capitalism mismanaged business's would have failed and not been propped up by government.

                                                                #17.4 - Sun Sep 27, 2009 12:24 PM EDT
                                                                Surfsup

                                                                True Jason....THERE SHOULD HAVE BEEN NO BAILOUTS no government takeovers period... We had courts & policies in place to let the free market take care of itself without Gov/Unions takeover...

                                                                  #17.5 - Sun Sep 27, 2009 12:54 PM EDT
                                                                  Reply
                                                                  GW escapes again

                                                                  During campaigning for Bush's second term, he campaigned about his administrations success in increased levels of home ownership. He bragged about big increases in first time home buyers during his first term, etc. etc.

                                                                  The man claimed as victory the circumstances that helped lead to the 2008 economic meltdown he created.

                                                                  Did he know there was a lot of sub-prime lending going on ? Of course ! Did he care what the economic consequences would be ? Obviously not -

                                                                  (Come on, the guy has an MBA from an ivy-league school; obviously he knows the consequences of making zero-down loans to millions of people who don't have the credit or income to support repayment of the loans.)

                                                                    Reply#18 - Sun Sep 27, 2009 9:42 AM EDT
                                                                    clb-462357

                                                                    GW escapes again During campaigning for Bush's second term, he campaigned about his administrations success in increased levels of home ownership. Did he know there was a lot of sub-prime lending going on ? Of course ! Did he care what the economic consequences would be ? Obviously not -

                                                                    A September 11, 2003 NY Times article shows that Bush proposed “the most significant regulatory overhaul in the housing finance industry since the savings and loan crisis a decade ago.” His proposal: An agency within the Treasury Department to supervise mortgage giants Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.

                                                                    NY Times Article: http://www.nytimes.com/2003/09/11/business/new-agency-proposed-to-oversee-freddie-mac-and-fannie-mae.html?sec=&spon=&pagewanted=print

                                                                    The proposal worked its way around Congress for a couple of years. Efforts at reform of the kind proposed by President Bush were shot down.

                                                                    2004 Videos are out there on YouTube & E-Span showing members of the committee blocking any efforts to regulate these two government entities. As well as a video of Pres. Clinton stating, “I think the responsibility that the dems have may rest more in resisting any efforts by Republicans in the congress or by me when i was pres to put some standards and tighten up a little on Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.”

                                                                    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hfGWxqsKFmY&feature=related

                                                                    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MGT_cSi7Rs

                                                                    The facts are, CONGRESS is and has always been the problem on these things. These problems have been escalating for decades. Presidents come and go, most of the congress members have been there for more than a decade. The President is not the one who controls legislation, he proposes. It's really time to stop the "blame President" attitudes and past the time of voting out the majority of the Congress. The sooner people start realizing this the better it would be for all of us.

                                                                    • 2 votes
                                                                    #18.1 - Sun Sep 27, 2009 11:07 AM EDT
                                                                    Reply
                                                                    wtfwwus

                                                                    This isn't new! Reports have been flowing since 1997 - 98 that the housing financial market was all wrapped up in bad business. I've seen numerous posters on NV state this and even post links to reports way back.

                                                                    Both the Clinton Administration, and the Bush Administration and the Congress' combined did nothing. Why? $$$$$$'s.

                                                                    Oh, but the way GW_Escapes_again. Read the article, it states this was reported in 1999, Bill Clinton was president. Come on, you don't need an MBA to read, or know when who was president. You're so transparent in just trying to blame everything on Bush. Like Democrats don't sell us out too!

                                                                      Reply#19 - Sun Sep 27, 2009 9:54 AM EDT
                                                                      keith in DSM

                                                                      Most regulatory agencies are created by the government to protect us. and most regulatory agencies are paid for by us with our tax dollars, so why do most regulatory agencies eventually change to protect the industry they are suppose to regulate.

                                                                      I think we have a system error.

                                                                      • 3 votes
                                                                      Reply#20 - Sun Sep 27, 2009 9:54 AM EDT
                                                                      George B-907361

                                                                      Obviously the banks that got us into this financial mess do not want to pay for their greed. If Wells Fargo is truthful that race did and does not figure into their lending practices and they followed all laws and regulations, then the rules and regulations are racist. The higher interest rates charged to minorities is proof the system or the banks or both are guilty of racist policies.

                                                                      • 1 vote
                                                                      Reply#21 - Sun Sep 27, 2009 10:09 AM EDT
                                                                      JMAN-469344

                                                                      Five freaking pages of dodgeball economics which were praised by Barney Frank, Chris Dodd and Alice Waters and NOT ONE MENTION OF THEIR NAMES OR THEIR EFFORTS TO CONTINUE THIS SCANDAL! No mention of Frank Raines (who collected over 90 million dollars of bonus money at Fannie Mae) or Jamie Gorelick (who collected nearly 25 million in bonuses) or Jim Johnson at Freddie Mac, all of whom were up to their eyeballs and were publically praised on C-Span for opening up the housing markets to people who could not afford the loans they were taking out!

                                                                      No borrower was dragooned into a sub-prime mortgage. They took them out of their own free will! Decisions to grant a sub-prime were NOT made on the basis of race or income, they were made in the good old fashioned way based on the borrower's CREDIT WORTHINESS! Thus if a Black person who made $100,000/yr had to pay a sub-prime rate for a home he really had no business in, IT WAS BECAUSE HE HAD $HITTY CREDIT, NOT BECAUSE HE WAS BLACK!

                                                                      There were and are plenty of Black borrowers who have prime rate mortgages all over the country!

                                                                      This whole biased screed is intended to bolster the government's contention that the sub-prime situation was out of their hands in view of the coming 2010 elections. In fact, the government was up to their necks in it! There is a reason that Wall Street votes overwhelmingly Democratic. It's called a bigger KA-CHING for their buck! And yes...there were plenty of Republicans in up to their necks as well!

                                                                      Bottom Line! After the way government screwed the sub-prime mess into a world financial crisis, do you really want these same people running your HEALTH CARE?

                                                                        Reply#22 - Sun Sep 27, 2009 10:13 AM EDT
                                                                        TommyR

                                                                        The Fed is corrupt like the rest of Wall Street and the elected officials that they own. Why is it perfectly legal for big banks to charge 30% interest to their credit card holders without being charged with criminal usury? Because the politicians that they own pass legislation to allow it.

                                                                          Reply#23 - Sun Sep 27, 2009 10:14 AM EDT
                                                                          bob-414005

                                                                          And you want these idiots to run health care?

                                                                          • 1 vote
                                                                          Reply#24 - Sun Sep 27, 2009 10:46 AM EDT
                                                                          SMVCPA

                                                                          "It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society"

                                                                          A number of years ago, the central bank of the United States, the Federal Reserve, produced a document entitled "Modern Money Mechanics". This publication detailed the institutionalized practice of money creation, as utilized by the Federal Reserve and the web of global commercial banks it supports. On the opening page, the document states its objective: "The Purpose of this booklet is to describe the basic process of money creation in a fractional reserve banking system". It then proceeds to describe this 'fractional reserve process' through various banking terminology. A translation of which goes something like this: The United States Government decides it needs some money, so it calls up the Federal Reserve, and requests, say, 10 billion dollars". The fed replies, saying " sure… we'll buy 10 billion in government bonds from you." So, the government then takes some piece of paper, paints some official looking designs on them, and calls them 'Treasury Bonds'. Then, it puts a value on these Bonds to the sum of 10 billion dollars, and sends them over to the Fed. In turn, the people at the Fed draw up a bunch of impressive pieces of paper themselves, only this time calling them 'Federal Reserve Notes'…also designating a value of 10 billion dollars to the set. The Fed then takes these notes and trades them for the Bonds. Once this exchange is complete, the government then takes the 10 billion in Federal Reserve Notes and deposits it into a bank account… and upon this deposit, the paper notes officially become 'legal tender' money, adding 10 billion to the US money supply. And there it is… 10 billion in new money has been created. Of course, this example is a generalization, for, in reality, this transaction would occur electronically, with no paper used at all. In fact only 3% of the US money supply exists in physical currency. The other 97% essentially exists in computers alone. Now, Government bonds are, by design, instruments of Debt and when the Fed purchases these bonds, with money it created essentially out of thin air, the government is actually promising to pay back that money to the Fed. In other words… The money was created out of debt. This mind numbing paradox of how money, or value, can be created out of debt, or a liability, will become more clear as we further this exercise. So, the exchange has been made and now 10 billion dollars sits in a commercial bank account. Here is where it gets really interesting, for as based on the Fractional Reserve practice, that 10 billion dollar deposit instantly becomes part of the bank's Reserves, just as all deposits do. And regarding reserve requirements, as stated in Modern money mechanics: A bank must maintain legally required reserves, equal to a prescribed percentage of its deposits. It then quantifies this by stating: under current regulations, the reserve requirement against most transaction accounts is 10%." This means that with a ten billion dollar deposit, 10% or 1 billion is held as the required reserve, while the other 9 billion is considered an excessive reserve and can be used as the basis for new loans. Now, it is logical to assume that this 9 billion is literally coming out of the existing 10 billion dollars deposit. However, this is actually not the case. What really happens is that the 9 billion is simply created out of thin air, on top of the existing 10 billion dollar deposit. This is how the money supply is expanded. As stated in Modern Money Mechanics: " of course, they (the banks) do not really pay out loans from the money they receive as deposits. If they did this, no additional money would be created.

                                                                          What they do when they make loans is to accept promissory notes (loan contracts) in exchange for credits (money) to the borrower's transaction accounts."

                                                                          In other words, the 9 billion can be created out of nothing, simply because there is a demand for such a loan, and there is a 10 billion dollars deposit to satisfy the reserve requirements. Now, let's assume that somebody walks into this bank and borrows the available 9 billion dollars. They will then most likely take that money and deposit it into their own bank account. The process then repeats, for that deposit becomes part of the banks reserves, 10% is isolated and in turn 90% of the 9 billion or 8.1 billion is now available as newly created money for more loans. And, of course, that 8.1 can be loaned out and redeposited creating an additional 7.2 billion…to 6.5 billion..

                                                                          to 5.9 billion etc. This deposit-money creation-loan cycle can technically go on to infinity… the average mathematical result is that about 90 billion dollars can be created on top of the original 10 billion. In other words, for every deposit that ever occurs in the banking system, about 9 times that amount can be created out of thin air. So that we understand how money is created by this fractional reserve banking system, a logical, yet elusive question might come to mind:

                                                                          What is actually giving this newly created money value? The answer: The money that already exists. The new money essentially steals value from the existing money supply… for the total pool of money is being increased, irrespective to demand for goods and services, and, as supply and demand finds equilibrium- prices rise, diminishing the purchasing power of each individual dollar. This is generally referred to as 'inflation' and inflation is essentially a hidden tax on the public.

                                                                          (Ron Paul) : "…what is the advice that you generally get, and that is inflate the currency. They don`t say debase the currency, they don`t say devalue the currency, they don`t say cheat the people with savings, they say lower the interest rates. The real deception is when we distort the value of money, when we create money out of thin air, we have no savings yet there`s so called capitol…so my question boils down to this-how in the world can we expect to solve the problems of inflation--that is the increase in the supply of money-- with more inflation? " Of course, it can't. The Fractional Reserve System of monetary expansion is inherently inflationary. For the act of expanding the money supply without there being a proportional expand of good and services in the economy, will always debase a currency.. In fact a quick glance at the historical values of the US dollars Vs the money supply, Reflects this point definitively, for the inverse relationship is obvious. In fact, One dollar in 1913 required 21.60 cents in 2007, to match value…that is a 96% devaluation since the Federal reserve has come into existence. Now, if this realty of inherent and perpetual inflation seems absurd and economically self-defeating… hold that thought, for absurdity is an understatement in regard to how our financial

                                                                          system really operates. For in our financial system money is debt and debt is money. Here is a chart of the US money supply from 1950 to 2006. Here is a chart of the US national debt for the same period. How interesting it is that the trends are nearly identical… for the more money there is, the more debt there is… the more debt there is, the more money there is. To put it a different way, every single dollar in your wallet is owed to somebody by somebody; for remember, the only way the money can come into existence is from loans. Therefore, if everyone in the country were able to pay off all debts, including the government, there would not be one dollar in

                                                                          circulation. (If there were no debts in our money system, there wouldn`t be any money"

                                                                          -Marriner Eccles-Governor of the Federal Reserve September 30th, 1941 -House Committee Hearing on Banking and Currency )

                                                                          In fact, the last time in American history the national debt was completely paid off was in 1835, after President Andrew Jackson shutdown the Central Bank that preceded the Federal Reserve. In fact Jackson's entire political platform essentially revolved around his commitment to shut down the Central Bank, stating at one point: " the bold efforts the present bank has made to control the government are but premonitions of the fate that awaits the American people should they be deluded into a perpetuation of this institution or the establishment of another like it." Unfortunately his message was short lived, and the international bankers succeeded to install another central bank in 1913…The Federal Reserve. And as long as this institution exists, perpetual debt is guaranteed.

                                                                          Now, so far we have discussed the reality that money is created out of debt, through loans.

                                                                          These loans are based on a bank's "Reserves" and Reserves are derived from deposits. Through this fractional reserve system, any one deposit can create 9 times its original value, in turn debasing the existing money supply, raising prices in society. And since all this money is created out of debt and circulated randomly through commerce, people

                                                                          become detached from their original debt and a disequilibrium exists where people are forced to compete for labor, in order to pull enough money out of the money supply to cover their costs of living. As dysfunctional and backwards as all of this might seem… there is still one thing we have omitted from this equation… and it is this element of the structure which reveals the truly fraudulent nature of the system itself. -The application of Interest. When the government borrows money from the Fed or when person borrows money from a bank, it almost always has to be paid back with accrued interest. In other words, almost every single dollar that exists must be eventually returned to a bank, with interest paid as well. But, if all money is borrowed from the central bank and is expanded by the commercial banks through loans, only what would be referred to as the 'principle' is being created in the money supply…. So then, where is the money to cover all of the interest that is charged? Nowhere. It doesn't exist. The ramifications of this are staggering, for the amount of money owed back to the banks will always exceed the amount of money that is available in circulation. This is why Inflation is a constant in the economy, for new money is always needed to help cover the perpetual deficit built into the system, caused by the the need to pay the interest. What this also means is that mathematically, defaults and bankruptcy are literally built into the system. And there will always be poor pockets of society that get the short end of the stick. An analogy would be a game of musical chairs, for once the music stops someone is left out to dry. And that's the point. It invariably transfers true wealth from the individual to the banks, for if you are unable to pay for your mortgage, they will take your property. This is particularly enraging when you realize that not only is such a default inevitable due to the fractional reserve practice, but also because of the fact that the money that the bank loaned to you didn't even legally exist in the first place. In the 1969, there was a Minnesota court case involving a man named Jerome Daly, who was challenging the foreclosure of his home by the bank, which provided the loan to purchase it. His argument was that the mortgage contract required both parties, being he and the bank, each put up a legitimate form of property for the exchange. In legal language, this is called "consideration".

                                                                          (Consideration: -a contract`s basis. A contract is founded on an exchange of one form of consideration for another.) Mr. Daly explained that the money was, in fact, not the property of the bank, for it was created out of nothing as soon as the loan agreement was signed. Remember what modern money mechanics stated about loans: "what they do when they make loans is to accept promissory notes in exchange for credits…Reserves are unchanged by the loan transactions. But deposit credits constitute new additions to the total deposits of the banking system." In other words, the money doesn't come out of any of their existing assets. The bank is simply inventing it, putting up nothing of its own except for a theoretical liability on paper. As the court case progressed, the banks president, Mr. Morgan, took the stand, and in the judge's personal memorandum, he recalled that "The Plaintiff (bank's president) admitted that it, in combination with the Federal Reserve Bank…did create the…money and credit upon its books by bookkeeping entry…the money and credit first came into existence when they created it…Mr. Morgan

                                                                          admitted that no United States law or statute existed which gave him the right to do this…a lawful consideration must exist and be tendered to support the note." "The jury found that there was no lawful consideration and I agree" He also poetically added, " Only God can create something of value out of nothing"

                                                                          And upon that revelation, the court rejected the bank's claim for foreclosure and Daly kept his home. The implications of this court decision are immense, for every time you borrow money from a bank, whether it is a mortgage loan or a credit card charge, the money given to you is not only counterfeit, it is an illegitimate form of consideration and hence voids the contract to repay… for the bank never had the money as property to begin with. Unfortunately, such legal realizations are suppressed and ignored,

                                                                          and the game of perpetual wealth transfer and perpetual debt continues….

                                                                            Reply#25 - Sun Sep 27, 2009 10:46 AM EDT
                                                                            SMVCPA

                                                                            You would think after 14 previous recessions, we would figure out that the federal reserve bank, not federal and certainly unconstitutional (Congress never had the authority to create this fiat money system) is the real culprit behind every economic "cycle" (what a poor application of the wrong word in description). The fed pushes credit that never arose from any real savings in the economy as it should, then raises interest rates, making it appear that there are lots of saved dollars available for long-term projects (which is opposite of what should happen e.g. falling rates when there is a surplus of saved dollars for investing), plays favorites in terms of who gets what credit, then creates supply of tons of commercial (oh, you thought it was just sub-prime mortgages that caused this...try again) real estate which nobody ever demanded. Supply is driven by demand, or is supposed to be. So, they create speculation in the market, basically adding nothing of value but still raising the price of goods and services the market never asked for, thereby grossly misallocating resources that could have gone to real demand projects. The market implodes, then once again the fed comes to the rescue and lowers interest rates, which again should never happen unless the market reflects too much surplus in dollars for lending, bails out the corporations (yes, in all previous recessions, many stimulus packages were put together to save the billionaires and screw the people...but you didn't learn that in school I bet) and then doubling the money supply which actually is the true definition of inflation. Rising prices are the result of too much money backed by the same amount of resources. All to prevent falling prices, or "deflation" which we are taught is very bad. The reality fellow Americans is that deflation was standard in the industrial age before the Federal Reserve act was passed in 1913, meaning prices of real goods and services fell, thereby increasing our personal and national wealth. But now the bankers get us coming and going, because the fed doesn't have to buy treasury bonds, no no, it can create money by lending a billion dollars to a real estate project funded by JP Morgan, and they in turn get to use the money before inflation hits, when all the increased interest cost is passed 100% to you and me. Any questions yet? I have just one...when does the revolution to regain our freedom begin? Sign me up!

                                                                            • 3 votes
                                                                            Reply#26 - Sun Sep 27, 2009 10:49 AM EDT
                                                                            Thomas71

                                                                            I hear you! When a true and real revolution begins let me know as well.

                                                                              #26.1 - Sun Sep 27, 2009 6:06 PM EDT
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