Newsvine
  • Welcome
  • Help
  • Report Bug
  • Conversation Tracker
  • Your Column
  • Replies
  • Friends
Type Comments Since You Last CheckedArticle Source Last Checked Stop Tracking All Clear Tracking All
Advertise | AdChoices
Log In | Register
Close the Login Panel
Existing users log in below. New users please register for a free account.

New Users:

Existing Users:

E-Mail:
Password:
Forgot Password?
Please enter the e-mail address or domain name you registered with:
E-Mail/Domain:
Back to Login
Log Out
  • Top News
  • Local News
  • World
  • U.S.
  • Sports
  • Politics
  • Tech
  • Entertainment
  • Science
  • Business
  • Health
  • Odd News
  • More
    • Arts
    • Education
    • Environment
    • Fashion
    • History
    • Home & Garden
    • Not News
    • Religion
    • Travel
What is Newsvine?

Updated continuously by citizens like you, Newsvine is an instant reflection of what the world is talking about at any given moment.

Get a Free Account
Help
Fun Stuff
  • Your Clippings
  • Leaderboard
  • E-Mail Alerts
  • Top of the Vine
  • Newsvine Live
  • Newsvine Archives
  • The Greenhouse
  • Recommended Articles
  • Wall of Vineness
Put a Seed Newsvine link on your own site

Rough sailing ahead for recovery

Tue Sep 29, 2009 11:59 AM EDT
business, economy, only-on-msnbc-com, recession, federal-reserve, spending, consumers, exports, gains, stocks--economy
msnbc.com News — By John W. Schoen, Senior Producer
Advertise | AdChoices

— Confusion about the outlook for the economy abounds, and consumers, who are responsible for the bulk of economic activity, may be the most puzzled about it.

Despite all the talk of "green shoots" on Wall Street, consumers have good reason to be skeptical. With much of the economy still badly battered by the worst downturn since the Great Depression, it remains to be seen how strongly the economy will emerge from that slump.

On Tuesday the Conference Board, an industry group, reported that its index of consumer attitudes fell to 53.1 in September from a revised 54.5 in August. The news surprised Wall Street, which had been expecting the index to rise to 57.0.

Part of the surprise came from conflicting signals from last week's widely watched University of Michigan survey, which found consumer confidence rising in August.

Consumers who see the glass as half-full seem to be responding to recent positive reports about the recession coming to an end. The University of Michigan survey tracks changes in whether consumers are hearing “good news” or “bad news" about the economic outlook. In August, that index took a big jump.

No wonder. There's been plenty of good news lately about the economy, and some data due out later this week are expected to add to the evidence that the longest, deepest postwar recession is coming to an end.

"From a technical perspective, the recession is very likely over at this point," Federal Reserve chairman Ben Bernanke said earlier this month. "It's still going to feel like a very weak economy for some time because many people will still find that their job security and their employment status is not what they wish it was."

Many private economists expect that the official barometer of economic growth, the gross domestic product, will post gains in the second half of the year — thanks to a multitrillion-dollar pump-priming by the federal government over the past year. But there are widespread doubts about whether the engine will keep turning strongly enough to produce jobs after the government's stimulus spending is over.

Those fears showed up in the latest Conference Board survey: The index of people who described jobs as "hard to get" rose to 47.0 from 44.3. And the gauge of "jobs plentiful" fell to 3.4 from 4.3, the lowest since February 1983.

Even those who see the recession ending concede that it will be years before the job market brings employment levels back to anything close to a "normal" economy. That’s because each of the four major sectors that produce economic growth still face major headwinds.

Here’s a look at each sector:

Consumer spending
Because consumers account for about 70 cents of every dollar’s worth of U.S. economic growth, it’s hard to have a recovery unless households are spending. Some economists believe that, as the recession ends, consumers are getting more confident and will soon return to their traditional role as the main engine of economic growth.

The latest data on the housing market and retail sales seem to back that up. Existing home sales have risen in four of the past in six months, and new home sales have risen for four straight months. Retail sales bumped up 2.7 percent in August, the biggest gain in three years. Recent gains in the stock market have helped households rebuild battered investment savings, easing some of the financial gloom that cut into consumer spending.

But those gains are from basement-bottom levels; home sales are still off more than 25 percent from their 2005 peak. Car sales, which also picked up in August, are still well below levels seen for most of the decade.

September auto sales will be reported Thursday and are expected to show a 20 percent drop from levels in August, which were boosted by the federal "Cash for Clunkers" program. Housing sales also could drop after Nov. 30, when an $8,000 federal tax credit for new home buyers, is set to expire.

With or without government incentives, consumers can’t spend money they don’t have. Some 14 million workers are without a paycheck; many of those who relied on credit card debt or home equity loans during the past decade can no longer tap that spending power. And while job losses appear to be easing, most economists expect the unemployment rate to remain stubbornly high, and possibly climb more.

“We are digging out of a very deep hole,” said Julia Coronado, a senior economist at BNP Paribas. “Until we see (job gains) of 125,000 or 150,000 (a month), the unemployment rate is going to be drifting higher.”

After cutting payrolls to the bone, employers won’t be in a hiring mood until they’re convinced the recovery is solid and sustainable. That’s going to take more than a few quarters of positive GDP growth. 

“(Employers) have pared down, they’ve cut back and they’re pretty lean right now and you’re going to see pretty big jumps in productivity,” said John Engler, president of the National Association of Manufacturers. “I think it’s going to be a very slow recovery, but as it comes back I think you’re going to see a lot of increased production without a lot of hires.“

A weak housing market could also slow the recovery in new hires as job seekers who want to relocate run into roadblocks trying to sell their homes.

“In the U.S. traditionally there’s a lot of labor mobility,” said David Blitzer, an economist with Standard & Poor's. “And as you begin to see a little improvement in the economy it’s not clear that the new jobs will be where the old jobs were. But it will be very difficult for people to move to take the new job because they’ll be stuck with the house where the old job was.”

Business investment
Notice how many items are back-ordered these days? As the recession deepened, businesses cut back inventories to the bone, afraid to get stuck with unsold goods if consumers stopped buying. Now that the economy seems to be finding a bottom, production is expected to ramp up smartly to restock those depleted inventories.

It may already be happening. Industrial production is up 1.8 percent in the past two months. Economists looking for a boost in business investment also note that companies deferred purchases of new computers and other equipment, so they eventually have to buy new ones. After peaking at 17 percent of GDP in 2006, business investment fell to just 11 percent in the first half of this year.

But strong business investment won’t be sustained until it’s clear there is strong consumer demand for more goods and services, according to David Roche, global strategist at Independent Strategy Limited.

And even if demand does come back, businesses still have lots of excess capacity to meet it after deep cuts in jobs and production during the recession. As of August, U.S. factories were running at just 67 percent of capacity, down from average levels of 80 percent for the past three decades.

“With all the excess capacity out there, I think it would be very difficult to see a big capital spending boom,” said Gary Shilling, a private economist and consultant.

Federal spending
As consumers closed their wallets, Uncle Sam opened his with one of the biggest spending programs in history, roughly $1.5 trillion in less than a year. Some $700 billion went to shore up shaky banks; another $787 billion paid for tax cuts and a surge in spending on new roads, green technology and a host of other projects designed to pump dollars into a shrinking economy.

A separate alphabet soup of money transfers from the Federal Reserve added another $1 trillion, much of it to guarantee loans and buy up bad investments from banks that couldn’t sell them, freeing up cash for them to lend.

The strategy seems to have worked, and much of the planned direct government spending is still in the pipeline. The hope is all that federal spending gets the gears of the economy turning again with enough momentum that as the federal spending spigot starts to slow down, other sectors of the economy will take up the slack.

But that plan comes with potential pitfalls. At some point, the Federal Reserve will have to unwind its trillion-dollar infusion of cash or risk igniting another asset bubble or nasty round of inflation. If it unwinds too quickly, it risks setting off another panic in the financial markets. If it leaves its policy in place too long, bankers will assume they can keep making risky loans and sell them to the Fed if they go bad.

“I believe they will continue to wind those (Fed backstops) down gradually,” said William Isaac, a former head of the FDIC. “We need to take sort of baby steps: take them down a little bit, see what happens, and take them down some more. Because we need to wean the markets off of these things. We can't keep them there forever.”

The government’s direct spending is being funded entirely with borrowed money, which is fine as long as investors keep buying U.S. Treasury debt. If they begin to lose their appetite, that could force interest rates higher, creating a big problem for businesses and consumers who need to borrow money.

Much of the hundreds of billions in federal spending has also been siphoned into a hole that diluted its impact: the growing chasm in state and local government budgets.

State and local spending
About half of government spending comes from state and local governments, which can’t borrow money when they get in a bind. And today, state and local governments are in an historic bind.

All but two states face budget shortfalls; in all, the deficits amount to about $168 billion, or about 25 percent of total state budgets. That number is expected to rise to $350 billion by 2011, according to the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities. If the Obama administration’s health care plan relies on Medicaid to cover more uninsured households, states could face a bill for tens of billions more.

As a result, the impact of the federal stimulus spending has been blunted by the sharp drop in state spending.

“The falloff in local and state revenues for roads and bridges was so precipitous that the federal money really kind of got us back to about level,” said Engler of the manufacturers' group. “There was really no net significant gain there.”

Local governments, which rely heavily on property taxes, also face budget shortfalls over the next several years as falling home prices force them to lower property assessments.

That means cutting spending and laying off workers, a process that is already under way.

Net exports
The last component of GDP — net exports — has actually been a drain on growth because the U.S. imports more than it exports. But the gap has been narrowing, and a continued pickup in exports would ultimately add to the economy’s overall growth.

Much of the gains for U.S. exporters have come from the declining value of the dollar, which makes U.S. goods and services more competitive in overseas markets. U.S. exports jumped to roughly $1.8 trillion from $1 trillion in 2001, when the last recession ended.

But U.S. exporters may not be able to rely much longer on a weak dollar to expand their business.

The common refrain you hear is, ‘Well, if we cheapen up the dollar, it will make it better for the trade deficit,” said Stephen Stanley, chief economist at RBS Greenwich Capital. “That’s a mantra that I'm not sure is really borne out over time.”

A continued slide in the dollar could bring some nasty side effects. The most worrisome is a rise in interest rates as overseas investors demand a higher return on U.S. Treasury bonds to make up for the eroding value of any investment denominated in dollars.

“The U.S dollar is on the weak side, and that’s great for our exports for now,” said Todd Buchholz, former director of White House economic policy from 1989 to 1992. “But there’s a narrow gap between helping the economy and being so weak that it becomes a crisis.”

  • Enjoy this article? Help vote it up the 'Vine.

Back To Top | Front Page

Published to:

  • John W. Schoen's Column, All of Newsvine
  • Groups: none
  • Regions: none
  • Public Discussion (233)
Jump to discussion page: 1 2 3 4
ColliDeleted
ColliDeleted
Ladyd1951Deleted
Ladyd1951Deleted
rp123-1352647

ladyd an colli you two post the same crap over an over again! do you get paid to do that??? i wana get in on that gig,i too need a job

  • 2 votes
Reply#5 - Tue Sep 29, 2009 12:20 PM EDT
rick-730834

sadly ,even if they do spam it...

they are correct for the most part

hell,and as much as i am on here posting my nonsense...i want to get paid too{not saying they are}...it would be nice,cos...uhmmm unemployment sucks.

  • 5 votes
#5.1 - Tue Sep 29, 2009 1:23 PM EDT
tim layman

Momma, don't let your babies grow up to be economists because there isn't a one of them that knows their ass from a hole in the ground!!!!

  • 3 votes
#5.2 - Tue Sep 29, 2009 2:07 PM EDT
rick-730834

whose ass and whose hole? mine those folks or yours?elaborate there a little...

    #5.3 - Tue Sep 29, 2009 2:14 PM EDT
    rick-730834

    never mind...i got the joke.whew...its all that aspartame and fluoride,took me a while to figure it out.sorry

      #5.4 - Tue Sep 29, 2009 2:19 PM EDT
      DB Akron

      There are 8 who do know. No one is listening to them because their news is not good. One of them is Dr Shiller.

      • 1 vote
      #5.5 - Tue Sep 29, 2009 2:28 PM EDT
      Clotho

      You can tell the people who copy and paste spam, by the enormous walls of text, instead of some readable paragraphs. When I see them, I don't even bother to read them, makes my eyes bleed.

      • 2 votes
      #5.6 - Tue Sep 29, 2009 3:13 PM EDT
      Andyb-300124

      I put repeat offends on 'ignore author'.

      • 1 vote
      #5.7 - Tue Sep 29, 2009 4:38 PM EDT
      Ron Homewytewa

      Regardless of what anyone says, the real truth is our economy will never recover with the current situation that seems never-ending.  We import more than we export, our dollar is now almost equal to the Canadian dollar, and no one is creating decent, worthwhile jobs.  My view of the future is we will all have to take crash courses in Cantonese or Mandarin.  The only bailout I see is the replacement of our currency with some type of "global" currency.  Why is it we don't hear about the attempts of other foreign governments to band together and initiate their One World Government?  They and the bankers have sold out our country right from under our noses!!  The market is due for another "adjustment", and add to that the non-"mandatory" H1N1 flu shots!  Orwell was right, just off by a couple of decades.  Our government wants to control us, then hand us off to a "UN style" world government.  Patrick Henry had it right, I'd rather have Liberty than slavery!!

      • 1 vote
      #5.8 - Tue Sep 29, 2009 6:07 PM EDT
      Reply
      CA Native-960438

      This is why I have ZERO confidence in America's future. Until America starts getting it's S--T together, we the people are screwed.

      • 10 votes
      Reply#6 - Tue Sep 29, 2009 12:24 PM EDT
      mhandels

      The U.S. will probably have a "double-dip" recession because consumer spending won't be enough to sustain growth.

      • 9 votes
      Reply#7 - Tue Sep 29, 2009 12:56 PM EDT
      rick-730834

      thank you for saying double dip...it makes sense ,with 70% GDP on spending,what the hell else would they expect?

      • 6 votes
      #7.1 - Tue Sep 29, 2009 1:21 PM EDT
      beyonddisgust

      Not including the Inflation that will have to present itself eventually, due to the Money Printing Machine opporating at full capcity since Feb 09

      • 5 votes
      #7.2 - Tue Sep 29, 2009 1:28 PM EDT
      Andyb-300124

      I want a double-dip with vanilla and strawberry, topped with sprinkles please.

      • 3 votes
      #7.3 - Tue Sep 29, 2009 1:28 PM EDT
      rick-730834

      thanks...now i am hungry for some ice-cream...

      • 3 votes
      #7.4 - Tue Sep 29, 2009 1:31 PM EDT
      Reply
      Alan W

      The Liberal controlled Federal Government is the greatest threat to Americans in our history . America is built on its economy and giving people a chance to work at careers or start companies . It all relies on credit which is absent now and demand which is controlled by unemployment.

      History has proven that every time the government raises taxes which it will be forced to do now or go broke paying off the debt interest which is now at over $100 Billion a month . If Obama gets his way you will see taxes at the level of European Socialized countries that have tax rates of 40-55 % which is what is required for the Federal Government to control the economy and at that rate it is impossible for middle class and poor ever to know economic freedom.

      Our country is in the middle of the " Perfect Storm " made up of Liberals spending madly , Environmentalists blocking the economy , and Special Interest groups backed by the White House to serve the Unions, Wall Street and Big Banks interests.

      The future is ugly with this President and Liberal Congress pushing us to Socialism.

      • 7 votes
      Reply#8 - Tue Sep 29, 2009 1:03 PM EDT
      Husker54

      Anyone who calls Obama a socialist has absolutely no clue regarding how bad the recession was. It was caused by a totally ignorant President and his advisors. Banks were permitted to take incredibly risking investments in derivatives, without regulation. Well, we have saved the banking industry by massive amounts of federal dollars. Now we need to save the economy and country. This can only be done by private enterprise and to save private enterprise we need to tackle the deficit in the near future.

      • 7 votes
      Reply#9 - Tue Sep 29, 2009 1:17 PM EDT
      beyonddisgust

      Husker what did the Democratic Controlled COngress provide BUSH to sign?

      And your right about Private Enterprise, Unfortunetly, none of them are willing to take any chances right now due to Congress's Health Care and Cap -N- Trade.

      And since Congress wont even start to tackle Cap-N-Trade till next year, we probably will not see any REAL new jobs till Next July at the earliest.

      I hope I am Wrong!!!

      • 6 votes
      #9.1 - Tue Sep 29, 2009 1:29 PM EDT
      Mary-351467

      Husker: It was also caused by a Democratic Congress. Do you remember when Bush warned of a problem with the current banking system and good ole Barney Frank said that everything was fine. So don't be so quick to place all the blame on Bush. It's partly his, partly the Dem Congress and partly the Bozo in the WH right now! He doesn't know what he's doing but he campaigned that he would fix everything - the wars, the economy and all he's done is make things worse! How much longer can you blame Bush. At some point Obama has to own his decisions over the past 8+ months. Obama & Co. now have complete control! God help us all!

      • 9 votes
      #9.2 - Tue Sep 29, 2009 1:33 PM EDT
      Go USA-851295

      You really need to revisit history. The economic disaster can be very clearly linked to the housing crisis brought on by the likes of Barney Frank, Chris Dodd, Maxine Waters, and others ignoring the numerous warnings from the Bush Administration as well as the pressure brought by groups like ACORN that forced mortgage bankers to give loans to people who had no way of ever repaying them. Furthermore, the safeguards put in place after the Great Depression were repealed under Clinton. It is my belief that in reality, Obama had no idea that he would be elected, and now has no idea how to govern. Or if he does, he sure hasn't proven it. He is too busy flitting from one news conference to the next or from one continent to the next.

      • 9 votes
      #9.3 - Tue Sep 29, 2009 1:33 PM EDT
      lisawilkins

      Husker54-Your right. Ignorant presidents named Carter and Clinton. They are the ones that insisted that the poor be entitled to home ownership like the rest of society so the requirements to get a loan were lowered.

      Alan W-The Europeans don't have all the social entitlement programs that we have in this country. It will be impossible to pay for all of those entitlement programs and a public option for health care and not raise taxes big time. Remember only 52% of the population in this country pays federal taxes.

      • 6 votes
      #9.4 - Tue Sep 29, 2009 1:49 PM EDT
      Ellen-1232405

      Husker 54 Anyone who calls Obama a socialist has absolutely no clue regarding how bad the recession was. It was caused by a totally ignorant President and his advisors.

      Our economic issues were caused by GREED and for the most part Congress is still the same under a new President. All of those parties in Washington have special interests including the President - none of them are innocent. So if you believe that he's not pushing Socialism what do you call this? They want to make everything equal - when there is no reward what will people have to work towards? They could have given 700 billion dollars to the taxpayers and let all of us get out of debt. The banks would have gotten their money back, people would not have lost their homes, etc. and consumer spending would be in existence. But they wouldn't be able to control our spending that way now could they - so go ahead keep giving it to the banks, etc. It is not fixing the problem and they still haven't enforced any new regulations on those parties that really caused these problems - Wall Street, AIG, etc. - they just keep giving them more money? If you want to increase consumer spending - you have to put money in the consumers hands. If you want consumers to start investing again - consumers need to have confidence in the investors.

        #9.5 - Tue Sep 29, 2009 2:20 PM EDT
        Husker54

        I hate to burst your bubble, but ACORN did not cause the economy to collapse nor did the loans to low income Americans. What caused the economy to collapse were billions of dollars loaned to Americans who were betting on the come to afford their house payment by either refinancing and/or selling their home for a higher price. The flow of easy money began in 2000 or so. Therefore, it was not the Democrats fault. When the bubble burst, so did our economy. Bush was in charge and in 2002, Warren Buffett spoke out at the Berkshire shareholder meeting in Omaha. No one in Washington listened and as Harry Truman said, "the buck stops here". As a result, Obama was handled a bucket of, well you know. He has saved the economy from the brink, he needs to take steps now to grow it.

        • 3 votes
        #9.6 - Tue Sep 29, 2009 2:21 PM EDT
        DB Akron

        I love the stimulus money that is getting jobs. $532 million to Al Gore's new hybrid car company - in Finland.

        • 6 votes
        #9.7 - Tue Sep 29, 2009 2:31 PM EDT
        BigRed23

        There are a lot of arguments about what kind of governmental intervention started this crisis. Solution. Get the government out of the financial sector. If some a-hole wants to put millions of dollars gambling with phony money scams, good for him and his obviously duped investors. Free trade is a cruelly simple and effective system. Simplify the tax code and stop fostering the philosophy that elected men in suits can make better health, financial and moral decisions than the rest of us.

        • 2 votes
        #9.8 - Tue Sep 29, 2009 2:41 PM EDT
        Racer X-858523

        Who in the world do you think came up with the policies that, we both agree, led the U.S. economy down this path? Please re-visit the facts and take a hard, hard look at those who pushed the ill-fated policies through and at what time. The path of destruction was being paved long before Bush II got into office. It all, and I mean ALL started with the strong arming of lending institutions to lend to those who simply couldn't repay the loans in the name of social fairness......Who do you think was running Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac? What party do believe they belonged to? Wise up....please.

        • 3 votes
        #9.9 - Tue Sep 29, 2009 3:12 PM EDT
        RV in GB#1

        Husker, if "The flow of easy money began in 2000 or so" you should be aware that Bill Clinton was president until January of 2001. If you are going to blame Bush, at least have the correct timeline. I am not happy about Bush's presidency (I was against the war in Iraq), but please make an intelligent argument.

        • 2 votes
        #9.10 - Tue Sep 29, 2009 3:19 PM EDT
        lisawilkins

        Carter signed the Community Reinvestment Act of 1977. Without this bill there would not have been this abuse of the system. In 2004 some Republicans brought up the fact that there were problems with Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac and the industry in general. Barney Frank, Maxine Waters and Gregory Meeks (D-NY) said there was nothing wrong at Fannie Mae (there was a video of this on YOUTUBE but it has been removed). Gregory Meeks even went so far as to accuse the Republicans of a "Lynching" of Franklin Raines, the CEO at Fannie Mae. This was going on as Franklin Raines was collecting millions in bonuses for writing all these bad loans. Obama has given Franklin Raines a job as one of his economic advisors. That is his reward for the great job that he did at Fannie Mae. So blame who you would like. Both parties need to go.

        • 3 votes
        #9.11 - Tue Sep 29, 2009 3:23 PM EDT
        Husker54

        The bailout of Fannie and Freddie did not put our countries major banks on the brink of collapse. It was the easy credit policies. These may have been around for a long time, but they did not begin to be a problem until early 2000. As a result, Buffett spoke out against it in 2002. Nothing was done about it until the meltdown last year. No one was forced to borrow the money. Many times there were no credit checks and everyone at the banks wanted to make the big underwriting fees. It was not government regulation, as the noted economist Sarah Palin alleged, but the lack of governmental oversight. For years banks had been prohibited from dealing with certain types of investments. These regulations were removed by Congress in the mid-90's. (A Republican Congress and a Democratic President). If these regulations had not been removed, the meltdown would not have occured.

        • 1 vote
        #9.12 - Tue Sep 29, 2009 3:28 PM EDT
        Reply
        PatK

        Why don't the doomsday media people stop reporting these stupid lagging index numbers. There will be no confidence in the economy when some consumers are already nervous and then articles like this one come out! I'm not saying bury our heads in the sand, but there are many people that are employed with good jobs and will start spending again when these media scare tactics stop.

        In the article it clearly states that "there is plenty of good news" and "consumers are getting more confident and will soon return to their traditional role as the main engine of economic growth", but with a headline to grab ratings that only makes it sound like the world is coming to an end, no wonder people are confused and frozen with fear again. Stop the fear tactics just for ratings!

        • 2 votes
        Reply#10 - Tue Sep 29, 2009 1:17 PM EDT
        beyonddisgust

        WHy does this Media keep advocating this Governments Positive outlook when the Facts don't support their words????

        And Pat the Good News is for the 2% richest people in our country who have money to invest in this down economy!!
        They already own more money then everybody else, but now they are buying at the largest reduction in our time. It is a buyers market and they have money!

        • 5 votes
        #10.1 - Tue Sep 29, 2009 1:33 PM EDT
        pjam09

        Patk

        You actually believe that the bad news is "scare tactics"? Have you ever considered that maybe the "good news" is nothing more than the more fictional "green shoots"?

        Maybe we should pretend that social security and medicare will be solvent forever too instead of reporting the truth, I'm sure everything will fix itself if we just ignore the problems.

        • 2 votes
        #10.2 - Tue Sep 29, 2009 1:43 PM EDT
        Van - Bloomington

        The article also makes reference to huge government spending as being one of the main things helping to bring about recovery: IT'S NO RECOVERY WHEN THE GOVERNMENT HAS TO BORROW OR PRINT HUNDREDS OF BILLIONS JUST TO GET A LITTLE RISE IN GDP!

        The real conditon of this economy will be revealed when all the government props are removed.

        • 2 votes
        #10.3 - Tue Sep 29, 2009 2:01 PM EDT
        PatK

        pjam09

        I didn't say that - can you read? Reporting old survey numbers and last month's consumer sentiment doesn't have anything to do with what people currently are feeling. Maybe the consumer is currently confident and past sentiment numbers mean nothing now and only hurt not help the situation. Then the media hypes the article with a headline for ratings making it sound like nothing is getting better at all which is not true.

        The article clearly states that "Existing home sales have risen in four of the past in six months, and new home sales have risen for four straight months. Retail sales bumped up 2.7 percent in August, the biggest gain in three years. Recent gains in the stock market have helped households rebuild battered investment savings, easing some of the financial gloom that cut into consumer spending." These are facts based on actual numbers not just how someone feels. Therefore, the "green shoots" aren't very fictional now are they.

        I also said we shouldn't bury our heads in the sand, but I guess you didn't read that either. We obviously have many problems that can't be blamed on the current administration. Do you have all the answers? I doubt it.

        • 1 vote
        #10.4 - Tue Sep 29, 2009 2:07 PM EDT
        Van - Bloomington

        Home sales have been hugely helped by the $8K tax credit for first-time buyers. Retail sales were up in August mostly because of "cash for clunkers". The stock market gains have been based on the above "green shoots" and government-enhanced strength in the banking industry.

        As for the stock market, just wait when the Fed has to raise interest rates from their current ridiculous level. Soaring taxes (already being felt in the states) and eventual inflation are going to act as a drag on the economy for years.

        • 3 votes
        #10.5 - Tue Sep 29, 2009 2:19 PM EDT
        PatK

        and your point is? The Feds should have just sat there and done nothing? That would really have helped a lot. By the way, retail sales were up in August even without autos.

        Get real - these things had to be done - there was no alternative unless you wanted to be in a depression for decades. That would have been your choice I guess??

        • 1 vote
        #10.6 - Tue Sep 29, 2009 2:38 PM EDT
        Reply
        rick-730834

        this is madness...

        • 1 vote
        Reply#11 - Tue Sep 29, 2009 1:18 PM EDT
        CARL THE PLUMBER

        We are in for 9-10 unemployment for at least the next decade. Get used to it.

        • 3 votes
        Reply#12 - Tue Sep 29, 2009 1:19 PM EDT
        rp123-1352647

        you lie!!!!!!!!!..............well then.............let them eat cake!!!!!!!!!

          #12.1 - Tue Sep 29, 2009 1:51 PM EDT
          rick-730834

          hmmm ,,,I thought it was more like 15 or 16% if you counted people not applying for benefits{discouraged workers},,the UNDERemployed {not making any living part time}and folks that just plain ran out of the benefits

          • 2 votes
          #12.2 - Tue Sep 29, 2009 2:22 PM EDT
          Ellen-1232405

          Amen - they are only including those people who are/can apply for unemployment.

            #12.3 - Fri Oct 2, 2009 1:24 PM EDT
            Reply
            oldtimer-428380

            The politicians have no clue. They are as corrupt as ever. All of them. This economy will stagnate until the jobs come back. I doubt that will happen in a long, long time. A fundamental shift in the publics thinking will only make this happen. When the general public gets so tired of these politicians, that they will vote them out in mass, regardless of who they are. It's time to abolish the federal reserve.

            • 9 votes
            Reply#13 - Tue Sep 29, 2009 1:19 PM EDT
            The Baron

            Let me sum up what the usual miserable Right Wing Party of NO whiney beotches have to say : "Obama WAAAHH boo-hoo Obama sob sniffle whine Socialist waaah waaaaah not his job boo hoo whine WAAAAAAHH Obama Kenyan Muslim waaahh boo hoo sniffle ACORN communist waaaah waaaah boo hoo *sob* Messiah boo hoo WAAAAAAAAH Socilalist whine whine BOO HOO Obama Anti-American waaaah WAAAH WAAAAH. " You read that, you've read the ENTIRE Right Wing's assesment on EVERYTHING. NO solutions, just blame blame blame. But don't worry, the WAAAAMBULANCE is on its way again....

            • 3 votes
            Reply#14 - Tue Sep 29, 2009 1:19 PM EDT
            rick-730834

            hi Baron ,spamming the same thing everyday, c'mon man I have seen your other posts,you are WAY smarter than that!lets hear some of your "solutions".

            ...You know where I stand! No more voting ,just pitchforks and torches for them all...they are all crooks Dems and Pubs.

            • 8 votes
            #14.1 - Tue Sep 29, 2009 1:27 PM EDT
            Dont Worry Obama Has No BrainsDeleted
            beyonddisgust

            YEah Baron, thats why everytime Obama is speaking we here "me", "I", and "My" throughout.
            Thats why Obama always brings up "BUSH". Not because he is blaming, but because, he wants to look GOOD to the American people. Unfort, he has not produced any of what he promised and increased our debt more then any president in history.

            I know it takes time, but quit telling me whos fault it is. And start telling me what your going to do about it!!!
            No more generic terms. I don't care about You and YOur Family, because you are not putting food on my family's table!@!!

            Obama and BUsh represent what is wrong with our country. THEY ARE NO DIFFERENT, EXCEPT, WHO PAID THEM!!!!!

            • 3 votes
            #14.3 - Tue Sep 29, 2009 1:41 PM EDT
            SMVCPA

            Understand this, true patriots have a government-defined "right-wing" goal of replacing them all, and restoring the republic (not to be confused with Democracy...we are NOT!)

            All of the politicians, save a few (and those few would gladly replace themselves and re-run in new elections controlled by the people) are crooked, have been conspiring to get rich and destroy the United States economy and its freedoms in the process. I won't go into that right now, but you can read my column if you need proof you can research and verify. But here's why there's no recovery coming, and why your life will get harder despite any efforts on your part to stem it. The following is a partial list of the net worth of our Congressmen (some of whom have been in power for more than 50 years), those crooks deemed worthy of getting dishonorable mention anyway:

            Congress
            Jane Harman (D-Calif)$558,544,002
            Darrell Issa (R-Calif) $526,300,001
            Robin Hayes (R-NC) $272,241,999
            Vernon Buchanan (R-Fla) $401,156,971
            Michael McCaul (R-Texas) $104,215,000
            Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif) $143,974,989
            Carolyn B. Maloney (D-NY) $83,585,994
            Rodney Frelinghuysen (R-NJ) $72,286,000
            Nita M. Lowey (D-NY) $70,503,415
            Gary Miller (R-Calif) $65,462,000
            Tom Petri (R-Wis) $66,891,999
            Denny Rehberg (R-Mont) $59,814,997
            Kenny Ewell Marchant (R-Texas) $53,178,582
            John Campbell (R-Calif) $45,102,000
            F. James Sensenbrenner Jr. (R-Wis) $28,460,630
            Steve Pearce (R-NM) $38,030,000
            Heath Shuler (D-NC) $41,521,996
            Bill Foster (D-Ill) $35,890,000
            John M. Spratt Jr. (D-SC) $33,702,995
            David Dreier (R-Calif)$29,688,000
            Tom Price (R-Ga) $29,270,233
            Fred Upton (R-Mich) $25,871,000
            Rosa L. DeLauro (D-Conn) $27,234,999
            John Linder (R-Ga) $26,649,998
            Lloyd Doggett (D-Texas) $21,584,999

            Senate
            Barack Obama (D) $15,466,043
            Max Baucus (D-Mont) $1,363,000
            John Kerry (D-Mass) $388,292,172
            Herb Kohl (D-Wis) $251,647,996
            Edward M. Kennedy (D-Mass) $163,298,999
            Jay Rockefeller (D-WVa) $127,533,003
            Frank R. Lautenberg (D-NJ) $125,692,020
            Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif) $115,998,023
            Bob Corker (R-Tenn) $98,169,998
            Gordon H. Smith (R-Ore) $63,895,999
            Olympia J. Snowe (R-Maine) $51,599,001
            Claire McCaskill (D-Mo) $44,437,005
            Elizabeth Dole (R-NC) $48,218,910
            Hillary Clinton (D-NY) $51,232,000
            John McCain (R) $37,743,009
            Lamar Alexander (R-Tenn) $40,536,648
            Johnny Isakson (R-Ga) $24,284,999
            Tom Harkin (D-Iowa) $21,938,002
            Ben Nelson (D-Neb) $15,889,000
            Jeff Bingaman (D-NM) $14,263,001
            Sheldon Whitehouse (D-RI) $13,857,999
            Evan Bayh (D-Ind) $13,942,000
            Mitch McConnell (R-Ky) $12,720,999
            Arlen Specter (R-Pa) $11,762,000
            Judd Gregg (R-NH) $10,521,000
            Chuck Hagel (R-Neb) $10,916,000
            Sam Brownback (R-Kan) $9,911,000

            • 4 votes
            #14.4 - Tue Sep 29, 2009 2:16 PM EDT
            rick-730834

            thank you...

            • 1 vote
            #14.5 - Tue Sep 29, 2009 2:24 PM EDT
            Carlos Toadvine

            From that list you sure get a feel for their point of reference. I can't say they have much in common with the average citizen. It seems even the ones with little to start with do pretty well once they make their way in the political arena.

            • 2 votes
            #14.6 - Tue Sep 29, 2009 3:17 PM EDT
            Dont Worry Obama Has No BrainsDeleted
            Stan-815449

            This "Recovery" is going to take so long that it will likely become a lifestyle for many people. And, thank you (SMVCPA) for this list. It is at the core of what is wrong with this country. Nothing will change until 'Term Limits' are placed upon our political elites/careerists. These are the people that are looking out for interests of the working men & women? Yes they are, and the voters must surely like what they have done because they are returned to office time after time. Fellow peasants, how do you like your porridge?

              #14.8 - Tue Sep 29, 2009 4:44 PM EDT
              MidwestMac

              SMVCPA,

              This is a prime example for my opinions and the push to reduce the benefit packages for all Politicians. As public servants of our Nation they should not receive unlimited lifetime health care benefits, full blown retirement benefits and a slew of other perks that they have duped the American public into believing they deserve! By the looks of your list (I do not know for sure it's accuracy but it is beside the point), they can afford to support themselves with private insurance, funding their own retirement accounts and taking care of their families a lot easier than most! Soon this agenda of restructuring the public servant benefit packages will take form and when it does it will bring new meaning to the word change! From a Politicians prospective that is...

              • 1 vote
              #14.9 - Sat Oct 3, 2009 11:07 AM EDT
              Reply
              Mike-1102930

              Our family has been on a roller coaster ride for 7 years now since my down sizing in the technology bubble burst! Yes I hear, read and see on TV what those who are suppose to be in the know that the recession is over. No way will I act on that "Assumption". Our finances are tight, already refinanced the home back in 2003, cut a lot of unnecessary items out of our life style (vacation, 3 trips a week to a restaurant, etc.). We are only maintaining the home and delay or forget abouot any home improvements. We save about $600 this year not feed the lawn - so let the weeds grow.

              What we need is for the greed to stop with the working class of people getting a respectable living wages. It is ridicules the number of times over management and other are getting over and above the working class folks.

              I did not see any support by the government using tax payer's money to bail out home owners that lost their home. I don't see the government helping the person bail out of debt from not having a job, except for a small unemployment check that just feeds a family, but certainly does not cloth them, pay the medical bills, the mortgage, etc.

              Yes, it going to be some time before the US Economy re-bounds - until the greeders gets what coming to them.

              MCS

              • 1 vote
              Reply#15 - Tue Sep 29, 2009 1:19 PM EDT
              nothing new here-1200374

              Heck, I'm going to Somolia where things are really good. Or maybe Kenya. I hear you can live on $1 per day there - at least that is what Obama's brother says.

              • 3 votes
              Reply#16 - Tue Sep 29, 2009 1:19 PM EDT
              beyonddisgust

              My Father has lived in Vietnam for the past 2 years. He lives their for about $400/month, and he lives pretty much like a king!

              • 4 votes
              #16.1 - Tue Sep 29, 2009 1:42 PM EDT
              rp123-1352647

              hell yea!!! an you can become a pirate,the pay is very gooood!!!!

              • 2 votes
              #16.2 - Tue Sep 29, 2009 1:58 PM EDT
              Reply
              jbgoode-1105037

              The consumers have no confidence because the consumer is getting nothing from the stimulus.  The money goes to the large corporations and banks and they keep it to cover their risky investments and large bonuses.  Give the money to the consumer and let them use it to pay their bills, buy things, pay their mortgage etc.  By having them pay their mortgagges, the banks get cash to loan, houses get bought and sold, people get put back to work.  By giving the money to the banks, it goes to pay ridiculous salaries and bonuses.  The money doesn't get put in to circulation.  Give the money to the people and it will circulate!

              • 7 votes
              Reply#17 - Tue Sep 29, 2009 1:20 PM EDT
              Susan-932012

              jbgoode - you hit the nail on the head - very insightful comment and true! Banks and financial services companies run ponzi schemes and risky investments for their own short term profits - they crash the economy - and our tax dollars go to bail them out - so they can continue to be paid millions a YEAR in salary and bonuses. When do we bring out the guillotine?

              • 5 votes
              #17.1 - Tue Sep 29, 2009 1:33 PM EDT
              Mary-351467

              jbgoode: Absolutely on point! Everyone I know is afraid to spend for anything other than absolute necessities. Everyone is cutting back on everything. We need to be able to keep more of OUR money so we can stimulate the economy as we see fit - not as Obama & Co. see fit. That would have an absolute effect on the economy if we had more money in our pockets. I'm sure that's too much common sense for this lame, inept administration.

              • 3 votes
              #17.2 - Tue Sep 29, 2009 1:38 PM EDT
              darrell-473614

              Not looking good. That's all I'm gonna say.

              • 1 vote
              #17.3 - Tue Sep 29, 2009 1:38 PM EDT
              Van - Bloomington

              Stimulus money in the main is going to those who helped Obama get elected (unions, education, etc.), and is timed to help the economy more next year, just as the Congressional elections roll around.

              • 4 votes
              #17.4 - Tue Sep 29, 2009 2:04 PM EDT
              Ellen-1232405

              all five of you are correct! For the most part the "stimulus" money won't be released until next year - hmmm after elections. If the consumer makes up 70% percent of the economy that is where the money needs to be "stimulated"!! It doesn't take rocket science to see that - it is simply economics 101. And they have done nothing to impose regulations on these parties to keep this from happening again? Why - they are ALL tied to these big corporations.

                #17.5 - Fri Oct 2, 2009 1:36 PM EDT
                Reply
                Carlos Toadvine

                I thought the political leaders had all the answers and by mid summer the whirling dervish of policy inhabiting the White house would have us all living the good life. According to MSNBC the president can shoot fireballs out of his backside and change the course of great rivers, cure the sick and raise the dead. Accordingly Ms Pelosi and Ms Clinton are a hybrid of Joan of Arc and Mother Theresa, powerful and compassionate. Now we are hearing that this will take time, oops, campaign rhetoric and reality don't mix? Damn that pesky reality. When things improve it wont be due to or the lack of national health care or a government program or project. But I am sure some partisan hack will try to take credit like the rooster who thinks he makes the sun rise.

                • 7 votes
                Reply#18 - Tue Sep 29, 2009 1:20 PM EDT
                Go USA-851295

                As usual, your comments are dead on.

                • 3 votes
                #18.1 - Tue Sep 29, 2009 1:40 PM EDT
                Reply
                El_Whapo

                And why should this story be a surprise. There were many other experienced economist that said the worse was yet to come. The Cars for Clunkers and first buyer home buy programs created a false economy and we're now seeing the results of it. A social worker with college professors predicting the economy is no longer going to cut it. We're in deep do do!

                • 4 votes
                Reply#19 - Tue Sep 29, 2009 1:22 PM EDT
                jbird

                Thanks Bush/Cheney, for that exciting roller coaster ride!

                • 4 votes
                Reply#20 - Tue Sep 29, 2009 1:27 PM EDT
                Deke-1776

                This has been in the works since 1913. Learn some history.

                • 3 votes
                #20.1 - Tue Sep 29, 2009 1:34 PM EDT
                rick-730834

                yep...{1913}...FUK the FED!

                • 3 votes
                #20.2 - Tue Sep 29, 2009 1:37 PM EDT
                Mary-351467

                How much longer will you scream "It's Bush's fault"? Remember, he also had a Dem-controlled Congress. It's now 100% Obama & Co. and time to own up to the fact that The Messiah hasn't done anything he campaigned on. He's set race relations back 50 years, divided the parties more than ever, had more job losses after he said we'd have higher unemployment if he didn't pass the $787B pork bill immediately (without reading it) and unemployment is still up and we're broke! The wars are still raging, our national security is scary and Obama just flies around the world and reads his teleprompter. That's what you get when an inexperienced Jr. Senator that voted 'Present' most of the time and a community organizer from Chicago misleads enough people to get elected. Now we're living his dream of a Socialized America.

                • 9 votes
                #20.3 - Tue Sep 29, 2009 1:44 PM EDT
                Bob-978658

                Why are you already Thanking them? This ain't no where near over. Please keep your seat belt fastened and hands and feet inside the ride at all times, untill the recession comes to a complete stop. (Heard that at um ... "Bush" Gardens.)

                • 4 votes
                #20.4 - Tue Sep 29, 2009 1:59 PM EDT
                rmbscuba

                jbird

                While your bashing Bush and Cheney, you're missing a good disaster orchestrated by your boy Barry Soetoro aka Barrack Hussein Obama.

                It's Bush's fault, no it's racism and finally the latest is Obama and his Administration have had a few missteps.

                The crook - in chief is doing a fine job!

                When is your boy going to create some jobs? HINT: Never, he wants as many people dependent on his Socialistic Government as possible.

                Thank God that some people who voted for this bum now realize it and are speaking out and joining the Tea Parties.

                This President is pathetic, not to mention his regime of crooks.

                • 3 votes
                #20.5 - Tue Sep 29, 2009 3:04 PM EDT
                Carlos Toadvine

                Thanks Bush/Cheney, for that exciting roller coaster ride!

                Pick your favorite partisan, blame one and praise the other, they are all responsible and as worthless as any living creature can be. I don't recall anyone from either party sounding the alarm last August, do you know why? They are all incompetent, power hungry opportunists who rely on those who can't see the real problem to carry their water. Its both party's! Not one, both! If you want change look outside of the establishment that has created a toxic atmosphere where the leadership expects us to serve them, it is supposed to be the other way around but it won't be as long as we keep reelecting the usual suspects. Yes, Bush was a fool and so are the rest of the partisan scoundrels in Washington including the President from my state who is trying to deliver olympic gold to the outfit in Chicago, the most corrupt machine in the country.

                • 1 vote
                #20.6 - Tue Sep 29, 2009 3:28 PM EDT
                Deke-1776

                Actually, the one guy that has been talking about this problem for years is Ron Paul. He also has bulletproof integrity, which makes him an oddity in Congress.

                  #20.7 - Tue Sep 29, 2009 5:36 PM EDT
                  jbird

                  rmbscuba- Sorry I didnt get past the first two sentences. My tolerance for racist bull@!$%# is nearly zero.

                    #20.8 - Tue Sep 29, 2009 6:33 PM EDT
                    Reply
                    bbagwell-1

                    Implement the FairTax NOW! Take the power (and money)out of the hands of beauracrats(sp?) and give it back to the people. PROBLEM SOLVED.

                    • 6 votes
                    Reply#21 - Tue Sep 29, 2009 1:28 PM EDT
                    JoJo-331270

                    AMEN !!!

                    • 2 votes
                    #21.1 - Tue Sep 29, 2009 1:52 PM EDT
                    rick-730834

                    yep FAIRTAX...right on time with END THE FED!

                    WHOO HOOO! folks are waking up to the fact we have been HAD!

                    • 4 votes
                    #21.2 - Tue Sep 29, 2009 2:05 PM EDT
                    Reply
                    Bob-978658

                    Um, last I saw the BDI Chart (2 minutes ago) it was down around 2000. No exactly where we were in Oct 08 just before the -93 pt drop of Nov. 08 Rough Sailing? Anyone search the articles: "Ghost Fleet of The Recession" (?) Not a pretty picture.

                    Seems every time the market burps, Hurray! "There's a sign of recovery!" Sadly, a burp is a burp. Yesterday, folks put their faith back into 401K investments. (Once bitten twice shy? Guess not for some.) Burp! Look today. Gee, lots of numbers by week's end. God only knows where we'll be by Friday. then two days to breathe deep, repeating our Manta: "It's only a recession. It's only a recession. Ooooooommmmmmm ....... Oooooooooommmm. It's only a recession."

                    See ya Monday! (Going to learn how to farm.)

                    • 4 votes
                    Reply#22 - Tue Sep 29, 2009 1:28 PM EDT
                    rick-730834

                    well said Bob...

                    the stock market is a poor indication and judge of the health of the "real" economy,its a crap shoot,and like any other game,it can be either skill or luck.

                    right now,the market has neither..

                    p.s....

                    {go with heirloom seeds for farming,not that Monsanto GMO garbage/seeds they peddle for veggies these days}

                    • 4 votes
                    #22.1 - Tue Sep 29, 2009 1:35 PM EDT
                    Bob-978658

                    Thanks for the seed advice. - Gotta tell ya, were still in for the worst. I'm not really much of an invester ... I'm a regular Joe. Once a proud Construction Worker. I learnes about economics after my fall from financial grace. Found a site you might care to look at. www.urbansurvival.com Click on the Daily Updates. Paper currencies only last 72 to 85 years and guess where we are ... start counting from 1913.

                    Good luck out there. We're all in this sinking boat together. We need to all pull together and Strive for the Tribe, if you know what I mean. - Think we're all going to be Amish-like in the next *few* years. - Pray for peace.

                    • 3 votes
                    #22.2 - Tue Sep 29, 2009 1:46 PM EDT
                    rick-730834

                    thanks, the reason I said stay away from Monsanto [and I am serious here on this one]is they yield 2 to 3 years MAX of seed growth and "fertile" good vegetation,after that you get NOTHING from it, no cross pollination, regrowth...nothing

                    Hence the reason they OWN 80% of BIG AGRIBUSINESS...if you are a farmer and you have to buy seed...you have to go back to them ,they are a monopoly.

                    monsanto...part of the agenda 21 plan{United Nations} ..."sustainable environments and living" also known as kill America plan

                    they are a evil and a scourge on our country.look into them,its not a pretty picture

                    • 1 vote
                    #22.3 - Tue Sep 29, 2009 1:57 PM EDT
                    Bob-978658

                    Thanks Rick. - Yeah when I heard Monsano was crossing soy beans genetically with the chemicals in Roundup Weed Killer, so that weeds would not grow up around the plants, I stopped everything Monsanto and avoid Soy Products as if they were the plague.

                    Seriously Rick, good luck out there man. I wish you and you family well. - Don't take any wooden nickles, eh? - I hear this will go on for about 4 more years as the paradigms change. Don't be caught off guard later in October and, Have cash hand come November (in pocket) wink, wink, nudge, nudge.

                    If you see me on here, say Hi.

                    Bob

                    • 1 vote
                    #22.4 - Tue Sep 29, 2009 2:36 PM EDT
                    Andyb-300124

                    Bob...thank you for the article on "Ghost Fleet of The Recession".

                    You are so right, everybody should look this one up so here ya go:

                    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/moslive/article-1212013/Revealed-The-ghost-fleet-recession-anchored-just-east-Singapore.html

                    Enjoy!

                    • 2 votes
                    #22.5 - Tue Sep 29, 2009 2:38 PM EDT
                    rick-730834

                    thanks for the heads up @October /November...

                    catch you later

                    Andy, Bob...great article on the Ghost Fleet...

                    • 1 vote
                    #22.6 - Tue Sep 29, 2009 2:49 PM EDT
                    Reply
                    indian rider

                    The worst recession since World War 2?. Why not call this what it is "The Great Depression of the 21st Century." No improvement on Main Street yet. Many still unemployed, many small businesses going under, many homes being lost to foreclosure, many families being destroyed. But our government hasn't skipped a beat. SPEND SPEND SPEND! USA is waisting away! Help us out on Main Street OBama!

                    • 5 votes
                    Reply#23 - Tue Sep 29, 2009 1:28 PM EDT
                    Bob-978658

                    Don't matter what you "call" it. Recession, Depression or what it really is, a Grand Super Cycle. - Yeah Street Level Economics has been completely ignored while Wall Street gets all the attention ... and money. They don't seem to realize that Street Level is the bottom line or FOUNDATION of Wall Street. No foundation, no Wall Street.

                    • 3 votes
                    #23.1 - Tue Sep 29, 2009 1:55 PM EDT
                    Reply
                    terry gould-1329824

                    Can you hear it, that sucking sound? It is the sound of hundreds of billions of dollars being sucked away from the American economy, don't believe it? Just listen to the talking head of Wall St... Emerging markets, double speak for foreign markets. Global economics...Anywhere but here. Sovereign funds...Investments in other governments. Currency markets...Brazil etc. Offshore minerals... Foreign countries treasures. they needed money for these investments and where better to get it than the stupid American consumer.

                    Fort Knox! don't bother it aint there anymore. Federal Reserve...Nope they won't even tell you what they are doing with your money. Goldman Sachs...have you seen the size of their bodyguards! Let's face it folks the game now is to keep you confused enough to fight for what is no longer here. Pension, Oh no I'm sorry, Social security, you wish. FDIC, once again sorry we are broke. Ta Ta!

                    • 6 votes
                    Reply#24 - Tue Sep 29, 2009 1:34 PM EDT
                    Norm Able

                    John, thanks for some truth! I know the current administration has displayed their willingness to spend taxpayer dollars at a rate never before seen in the history of our country. Obama underlying conviction is to distribute wealth from the rich to the poor. The positive results from this insane level of spending has been so little as to be considered almost immesasurable. Every day, more jobs are being lost in our country than are being created (just heard that Eli Lilly plans lay off 5,000 workers), the only ones created are enlarging the government. Every day, more American families are destroyed as a direct result of financial hardship and the pressures it brings to bear. It is almost as if the current administration refuses to view the world through anyrthing but rosecolored glasses. They steadfastly refuse to admist the most basic and logical economic truths. Spend your way into prosperity is just not possible, especially when most of that spending is to executive bonuses or entitlements. What this does is to increase the deficit, increase the burden on taypayers through taxation, increase our debt, increase our dependence on foreign powers and decreases our independence. This is certainly a very slippery slope we are treading on here. the big question at this point is how much worse shape will we be in once the impact of the inflation resulting from the insane spending we are doing, hits and it will. This inflationary effects will happen. It is only a question of when, not if! Some economists say that we could actually experience hyperinflation. Wouldn't we be much better advised to stop this power-dive into an economic hell now, before it is too late.

                    • 2 votes
                    Reply#25 - Tue Sep 29, 2009 1:37 PM EDT
                    COACH-865288

                    If the news media and Democrats would just tell us the truth about the economy we would all make plans to hunker down and ride this out--but instead we keep getting bandades like cash for clunkers and bail outs that are only temporary at best-- the liberal press wants to make this President look good so they keep telling us everything is wonderful. Now we all have car notes and no jobs--next we will have a new washer and dryer notes-but no job---it all starts with jobs--no jobs- no tax base - the liberal answer is we will tax the rich more---there is not enough of them out there to settle this bill we building up

                    • 5 votes
                    Reply#26 - Tue Sep 29, 2009 1:38 PM EDT
                    Runawaybull

                    They are trying to avoid the inevitable DEPRESSION coach.

                    I'm with ya though....no jobs, no recovery.

                    If our Seniors could retire with a true peace of mind, there would be plenty of jobs available in America right now.

                    Unfortunately they must work after retirement to make ends meet.

                    • 2 votes
                    #26.1 - Tue Sep 29, 2009 2:09 PM EDT
                    Reply
                    Dano-417914

                    If you believe any of this crap that things are getting better. Dream on.. It is all just Crap made up in D.C. more Crap from Uncle Sam. And he hopes that the American people buy it!!! Well I don't. All are jobs are going over to Bum FU%$ land. And we help the world, but we can not take care of the US are its people.. What Crap! And now you know why I DO NOT VOTE!!!! And now you know why the USA is in the Can....And going down ....

                    • 2 votes
                    Reply#27 - Tue Sep 29, 2009 1:38 PM EDT
                    nothing new here-1200374

                     

                    You'll see a bounce in the consumer confidence index when Hussein gives his next speech of the apology tour in Copenhagen. 

                    • 1 vote
                    Reply#28 - Tue Sep 29, 2009 1:40 PM EDT
                    Mary-351467

                    Right! Obama doesn't have enough here in the U.S. to keep him busy - economy, Afghan War decision, etc., he needs to jet off to meet Michelle in Europe to beg for the Olympics in his native Chicago. The Committee has been formed and it didn't include him. Why does he think he's needed? Another photo op and a taxpayer screwing. Over 50% of Chicago residents don't want the Olympics but Obama knows better? Who will pay for it? The taxpayers!! Just as we're paying for him to fly to Europe - again! More face time on TV. If Chicago wins, it will be all because of Obama; if they lose, it will not be because of him. He's an arrogant, egotistical, inept community organizer. 2012 can't come soon enough or maybe he'll do something stupider than he's already doing and someone will have the cajones to start impeachment.

                    • 3 votes
                    #28.1 - Tue Sep 29, 2009 1:52 PM EDT
                    Reply
                    rick-730834

                    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QT0OJEFlq7A&feature=channel_page

                    some little advice from George Carlin..puts it all into perspective.funny...but true

                      Reply#29 - Tue Sep 29, 2009 1:41 PM EDT
                      Jump to discussion page: 1 2 3 4
                      Leave a Comment:
                      You're in Easy Mode. If you prefer, you can use XHTML Mode instead.
                      You're in XHTML Mode. If you prefer, you can use Easy Mode instead.
                      (XHTML tags allowed - a,b,blockquote,br,code,dd,dl,dt,del,em,h2,h3,h4,i,ins,li,ol,p,pre,q,strong,ul)
                      Newsvine Privacy Statement
                      As a new user, you may notice a few temporary content restrictions. Click here for more info.
                      FUN STUFF:
                      • Leaderboard |
                      • E-Mail Alerts |
                      • Top of the Vine |
                      • Newsvine Live |
                      • Newsvine Archives |
                      • The Greenhouse
                      COMPANY STUFF:
                      • Code of Honor |
                      • Company Info |
                      • Contact Us |
                      • Jobs |
                      • User Agreement |
                      • Privacy Policy |
                      • About our ads
                      LEGAL STUFF:
                      • © 2005-2012 Newsvine, Inc. |
                      • Newsvine® is a registered trademark of Newsvine, Inc. |
                      • Newsvine is a property of msnbc.com