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Boy suspended over utensil gets reprieve

Tue Oct 13, 2009 9:40 AM EDT
news, today-people, only-on-msnbc-com, school, christie, vieira, zero-tolerance, districts, zachary, cub-scout, zachary-christie
msnbc.com News — Mike Celizic, msnbc.com - Only on msnbc.com
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— Dressed in a button-down shirt and tie and speaking calmly and articulately, first-grader Zachary Christie hardly looks or acts like the sort of kid who should be spending 45 days in reform school. But, thanks to a zero-tolerance policy, that’s where Zachary’s Delaware school system wanted him to go after he made the mistake of taking his favorite camping utensil to school.

However, on Tuesday night the school board made a hasty change to its code of conduct. The seven-member board voted unanimously to reduce the punishment for kindergartners and first-graders who bring weapons to school or commit other violent offenses to a suspension ranging from three to five days.

‘Can I have that?’
A Swiss Army-type combination of fork, spoon, bottle opener and knife, the tool has been Zachary’s favorite ever since he got it to take on Cub Scout camping expeditions. “He eats dinner with it, breakfast and everything else, so it never occurred to him that this would have been something wrong to do,” the 6-year-old’s mother, Debbie Christie, told TODAY’s Meredith Vieira Tuesday morning from Newark, Del.

Zachary, an A student who sometimes wears a shirt and tie to school just because he likes to, told Vieira he put the tool in his pocket on Sept. 29 for a very simple reason: “To eat lunch with. I had absolutely no idea this was going to happen. I wasn’t thinking about this. I was thinking about having lunch with it.”

But when the tool fell out of his pocket on the bus and he walked off the vehicle with it in his hand, a teacher intercepted him. “She said, ‘Can I have that?’ ” Zachary recalled.

What Zachary didn’t realize was that he had fallen afoul of the Christina School District’s zero-tolerance policy toward weapons in school, one of many such policies implemented in the wake of such incidents as the Columbine High School massacre. The policy did not allow teachers or administrators to take into account intentions or the character of the student; if a student has a knife, suspension and subsequent assignment to the district’s “alternative placement school” — aka reform school — is mandatory.

Racial issue
Christina, which, according to its Web site, is the largest school district in Delaware with some 17,000 students, made its policy zero-tolerance because of concerns over racial discrimination. Studies have shown in other districts that when school officials are given discretion over such cases, African-American students are disciplined at a disproportionately high rate.

“The idea was to avoid discriminating against any student and to treat all students the same,” George Evans, president of the Christina school board, told NBC News.

While some experts favor such zero-tolerance policies, others question their efficacy, saying there is no indication that they cut down on violent incidents in schools. One of them, national school safety consultant Kenneth Trump, told NBC News, “The school administrators have to be able to administer consequences and still have some discretion to fit the totality of the circumstances.”

“The policy, of course, needs some additional flexibility,” school board member Mackenzie agreed Tuesday.

‘Uh-oh’
Zachary had no idea that it was wrong to take his favorite camping tool to class. When the teacher asked for it when he got off the bus, he handed it over, unaware that he was already in serious trouble. He went to class while his principal called his mother.

“She said that I needed to come to the school immediately; that Zachary had brought a dangerous weapon into school, and I needed to come and pick him up. He would be suspended for five days pending a disciplinary action committee hearing. She said that he had a knife,” Christie told Vieira.

When his mother arrived at the John R. Downes Elementary School with her fiance, Lee Irving, Zachary was called from his first-grade classroom to join them.

“When they called my name up, I was like, ‘Uh-oh,’ ” he said.

Home school, not reform school
Zachary was suspended immediately for five school days. At the end of the suspension, he and his mother appeared before the district’s disciplinary action committee, where his principal and others spoke up for his good character. It didn’t matter. The committee’s hands were tied. The rules said he had brought a knife to school and would have to spend 45 days in the reform school.

Christie decided she would not send her son to that school. Instead, she has been home schooling Zachary while waiting for an opportunity to address the district’s board of education, which was to meet Tuesday night.

“I understand why they have it, but I don’t agree with the implementation of it,” Christie said of the zero-tolerance policy. “I think they need to look at the age, maturity, intent, situation; bring in the teachers who know the child or the principal, and allow them to make the first call in these situations,” she said. “Looking at other schools’ codes of conduct in the Delaware Valley, their first step would have been a suspension.”

Christie assured Vieira that her son is well aware of the necessity of not taking anything new to school without first asking and is not a threat to anyone. She hopes the school board will agree with her.

“I hope that they expunge his record and allow him to go back to Downes immediately,” she said of the board. “I think he has had an over-excess of education on this issue. I’m hoping that out of all of this the policy changes and that no other child is affected negatively by what is supposed to keep them all safe.”

Vieira asked Zachary if he’s nervous about the prospect of eventually returning to his school.

“I’m not very nervous,” Zachary said. “I like being home-schooled. It’s happy in some ways; it’s sad in some ways. Sometimes I’m strict, and sometimes I can get into my serious mode. I can get into my happy mode. It’s just kind of fun being home-schooled, but I’m not scared to go back.”

And what has he learned from everything that’s happened to him?

“To always ask before taking something new into school,” he said.

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Mike in so calRestored

I think this is a true safety issue. Even if this child is more mature then most kids his age. That does not mean that another child would not be able to get a hold of this thing and use it in an irresponsible way. This could have easily been done when he dropped the tool. We must also remember this is a KNIFE no matter what else is on this multi-tool it is still a knife. A 3" blade is more then long enough to kill ANY adult and child.I also understand that the main part of the story is not that the boy did wrong but that reform school is not the answer, but after watching the story I noticed his parents still defending the child not accepting responsibility for what he did. I also see that the policy of the school is the easiest way to avoid any kind of discrimination claims which in this day and age are all too common.

  • 18 votes
#1 - Tue Oct 13, 2009 10:57 AM EDT
bopdaddytoo

the problem with a zero policy is it is exactly what bureaucrats want as they are not required to use intelligence just a rule book.

I carried a pocket knife from the third grade and used it most days to build marble runs for games during recesses.

  • 49 votes
#1.1 - Tue Oct 13, 2009 11:20 AM EDT
Mike in so cal

I see your point but the other end of it is say this "white" family was told to not bring this tool to school again and its said and done. Then in two weeks another child who just happens to be "black" does the same thing but maybe its not a tool but just a knife. The school will HAVE to take a stronger action against that family bc there is no reason to have a knife. This family will feel like they are being discriminated against. Sad to say this whole discussion leads to discrimination and officials protecting their jobs from it. We have to all admit that we would do the same as these administrators to protect our own jobs.

  • 10 votes
#1.2 - Tue Oct 13, 2009 11:29 AM EDT
Fred Clown

The thin is Zero tolerance policies are less concerned about safety issues and more concerned about teachers covering their backsides so that they don't get sued for discrimination. They are not considering the welfare of this child in any sense.

  • 1 vote
#1.3 - Tue Oct 13, 2009 11:45 AM EDT
Fred Clown

The thing is zero tolerance policies are less concerned about safety issues and more concerned about teachers covering their backsides so that they don't get sued for discrimination. They are not considering the welfare of this child in any sense.

  • 40 votes
#1.4 - Tue Oct 13, 2009 11:49 AM EDT
Robert B.-1389688
  1. And yet another kid *didnt* get ahold of the knife and use it to create mayhem.
  2. A pencil could be used to kill somebody.

How much responsibility do you expect a 6 year old to accept when he innocently runs afoul of a rule he probably didn't even know about? And no harm was done. (He appears to be acting more mature than most of the adults in this situation.)

  • 55 votes
#1.5 - Tue Oct 13, 2009 12:29 PM EDT
scottdb

Better hire some armed guards in the cafeteria as well to make sure none of them get shanked by a fork.Thats just good liberal thinking right there.I doubt this has anything to do with some people still holding a grudge against the Boy Scouts for their position on homosexuals.

  • 19 votes
#1.6 - Tue Oct 13, 2009 12:40 PM EDT
Fred G. from N.C.

The idiots are in charge is the problem. There's a huge difference between a first grade A student bringing a Swiss Army knife to school and some Junior High gang-banger who's just waiting until he's old enough to drop out bringing a lock blade or switch blade to commit crime with. It's amazing that with all the eduction the eggheads in charge have that they don't have a lick of common sense. Should they have taken his knife? Yes. Should his parents have been notified to come and pick it up and be briefed on the serious nature of the offense? Again a yes. Should that be the end of it (unless of course he gets in trouble again)? Hell yes! The problem with zero tolerance policies is they have zero tolerance for common sense!!!

  • 47 votes
#1.7 - Tue Oct 13, 2009 12:42 PM EDT
PublicSpeech

Speak, Speak! Yes, everyone speak up. Maybe before anyone speaks though everyone should think; these rules are made up by human beings - adult human beings.

How many of us are "adult human beings"?

    #1.8 - Tue Oct 13, 2009 12:45 PM EDT
    JLMYERS77777

    I agree that reform school is a bit much for a 6 year old, however, my son also has the Cub Scouts pocket tool knife he received for selling popcorn at the same age , and the first thing I did was sit down with him and explain that this knife NEVER leaves the house. It is to never to be put in his school bag or any where around his schools stuff where it may accidently end up in his schools bag. I think just about every school in ths day and age has a zero tolorance policy. I blame the parents for not having the talk with him as soon as he received the knife. Tough way for a child to learn, but I agree that a policy is a policy and by sticking to it with this child, there can be no cry from the next child's parents who does the same thing.

    • 9 votes
    #1.9 - Tue Oct 13, 2009 12:47 PM EDT
    MI Voter

    I totally agree, that's the first thing I thought of. If my child had a knife like that I would very carefully explain to her that it's not to leave the house. Why didn't the parents think of that? I'm sure the school's zero tolerance policy is expressed to the parents, at least through a manual. Honestly I think 6 is a little young to own your own knife anyway.

    • 7 votes
    #1.10 - Tue Oct 13, 2009 12:51 PM EDT
    BAMOEDeleted
    gillanator

    Mike in so cal. I disagree. This is an educational environment. To take a kid that didn't know he was doing something wrong and put him in a facility where he will more than likely pick up bad habits, why not make him spend a few hours in his school and educate him on why he can't bring a knife to school. We are supposed to be turning out kids that are going to make good adults. Please explain to me how putting this kid in reform school for 45 days for what he did will help accomplish this? I promise you if this was my kid his last day at the public school would have been his last day in public schools.

    • 22 votes
    #1.12 - Tue Oct 13, 2009 12:54 PM EDT
    jimreaper

    Can you say, "Zieg Heil!" ?

    • 10 votes
    #1.13 - Tue Oct 13, 2009 12:58 PM EDT
    e-310299

    Zero Tolerance. What a lovely lesson to teach our children. Do you think they come out of the womb perfect? He is a 6 yr old, for crying out loud.

    • 24 votes
    #1.14 - Tue Oct 13, 2009 1:03 PM EDT
    Un-Common Common SenseExpand Comment Comment collapsed by the community

    This what happens when the Communist Teachers Union takes over our schools!!

    Term Limits on Congress Now!!

    • 20 votes
    #1.15 - Tue Oct 13, 2009 1:04 PM EDT
    bsbfankaren

    The child is six years old, for goodness sake! Zero Tolerance means nothing to a child his age. Send him home for a day and let his parents discuss with him why it is wrong to take such an item to school, then let it go. Had it been a 5th or 6th grader I might see this differently, but why punish a child that is not old enough to understand why he is being punished?

    Utterly ridiculous, and the school district should be sued for the emotional distress this nonsense will cause this child and his classmates!

    • 29 votes
    #1.16 - Tue Oct 13, 2009 1:05 PM EDT
    ROY WILSON-336103

    Another example of "Political Correctness" gone wild.

    Here's a novel idea. Anybody caught speeding must go to jail for 45 days, even if you were rushing your child to the emergency room.

    Zero tolerance - got to love it.

    PS - I wonder if they allow knives in the lunch room. Also, forks are sharp too, aren't they?

    • 24 votes
    #1.17 - Tue Oct 13, 2009 1:08 PM EDT
    bsbfankaren

    This reminds me of the time I wore my mother's jacket to school when I was in the 3rd grade, and realized she had left her cigarette lighter in it after I was in class. I showed it to a friend, a teacher saw it, and I got sent to the Principle's office. My mother was called to pick me up at the end of the day, and told to make sure I didn't bring a lighter to school again. That was the end of it.

    Good thing I don't go to school know. I'd most certainly be doing time at reform school!

    • 12 votes
    #1.18 - Tue Oct 13, 2009 1:10 PM EDT
    WLEITDeleted
    Dan H-540362

    These laws on legal size pocket knives and other paraphernalia (nail clippers, sissors...) are absolutely ludicrous. If it's legal to own it and carry it then the school is just another public building same as the airports and the court rooms. Why should he be treated any differently than the other kids who are using forks and knives to eat their lunches?

    The law should be zero tolerance for stupidity on the part of the people passing these laws and trying to enforce them.

    • 10 votes
    #1.20 - Tue Oct 13, 2009 1:12 PM EDT
    easydoesit

    A 3" blade is more then long enough to kill ANY adult and child

    So is the latch on a belt buckle.. voila, instant weapon. Or glasses... rip off a earpiece and again, weapon. Weapons are everywhere if you are really intent on gaining access to one.

    Good judgement however, is another story. Zero-tolerance make all of us guilty until proven innocent, either at the airport or in the first grade. Making all actions either black or white ,without any room for grey areas, just hurries us along on a evolutionary path to total robot-beings.

    • 15 votes
    #1.21 - Tue Oct 13, 2009 1:12 PM EDT
    azqueen

    Zero tolerance policies have their good and bad sides, while I understand the intent of the policy, it does not always fit the situation. My daughter who was constantly bullied and harassed by a girl who was twice her size was confronted in the back of an auditorium by this girl and her friends, they surrounded my daughter and started to beat the begebaz out of her, she in an attempt to get them off her started kicking like a kangaroo hitting whoever was in her way. When a teacher finally realized what was happening she broke it up. However because my daughter "kicked" the other girl and this is what the teacher saw my daughter was suspended from school and even had to go to court - yes my daughter at 15 was arrested. The courts threw the case out as it was clearly self defense, but because of the schools zero tolerance policy the suspension is on her permanent record. Sometimes these situations need to be looked at for the merits of the situation one size does not fit all in zero tolerance.

    • 2 votes
    #1.22 - Tue Oct 13, 2009 1:13 PM EDT
    sparksfly

    Instead of having a zero-tolerance policy in order to avoid discrimination, why don't administrators just quite discriminating? Seems simple to me, leave your prejudice at the door, they're adults they should be able to do that. If they can't, fire them.

    • 9 votes
    #1.23 - Tue Oct 13, 2009 1:14 PM EDT
    Ditchdoctor-425308

    Your post is as about as stupid as the idiots who call themselves educators that enforce this type of garbage. For Petes sake this is a CUB SCOUT IMPLEMENT. Putting this child in a reform school for this is the most ignorant thing I have ever read. The people that needs to be re-educated are those that dream up this kind of idiotic rules. Evidently the Deleware educational system is made up of pneumocephalic anal orfices.

    • 12 votes
    #1.24 - Tue Oct 13, 2009 1:14 PM EDT
    ObamaNation-829788

    MI Voter?

    I was carring pocket knives from age 5 on and so has my son who is now 7. He knows when it is, and is not, appropriate to carry his knives because we took the time to teach him that part of owning your first knife (quite possibly the biggest part) is showing responsibility & accountability. It is a process to raising a good man. It starts young, and it is my wife and my responsibility to equip him to do so. These parents failed to do their job and need to show him how to accept their accountability in this mess, not side step and appeal.

    BTW my son has shown great responsibility over the past 2 years with his pocket knives and will be rewarded this Christmas with his first Red Rider BB rifle.

    *wipes smalll tear from eye*

    "That's my boy."

    • 11 votes
    #1.25 - Tue Oct 13, 2009 1:15 PM EDT
    Frank J.-295979

    Frank in OC SoCal - I'll be taking mykids with me to Europe. This whole country is a joke now. Everyone who's not white is trying to bring this country down. Is it out of jealousy, stupidity(yes once I and others like me are gone you won't be sitting there at your computer because you won't have electricity idiot), or just straight prejudice. Either way "minorities"(and yes mike I know that you've already taken over California which has turned out soooo great for the rest of us) are going to screw this country up, and since the rest of you want to sit on your hands and watch it slowly burn to the ground, I'm leaving. I'll be where reason and justice still prevail. Peace!

    • 2 votes
    #1.26 - Tue Oct 13, 2009 1:16 PM EDT
    Norcal2

    Adorable kid, adorable family. I think the school will learn something positive from this. 5 seconds of listening to him talk could change the mind of a lion. The school I suspect will now learn that age and school records are important before handing out punishment that doesn't fit.

    • 9 votes
    #1.27 - Tue Oct 13, 2009 1:17 PM EDT
    Esam

    Welcome to the United States of America, kiddo!

    • 9 votes
    #1.28 - Tue Oct 13, 2009 1:17 PM EDT
    yo there

    I hope you looney leftists are proud of youselves!

    Get the poor kid out of public school and send him to a private one. Yeah, it is pricey, but worth it. I inherited two kids in a second marriage and they are NOT going to public school!!!

    • 12 votes
    #1.29 - Tue Oct 13, 2009 1:17 PM EDT
    Michael #64

    When the teachers and administrators are held to a zero tolerance policy then - this boy's punishment would be just.

    But when we hold our children to a higher standard than we do our educators then something is very wrong and this is the definition of insanity.

    • 17 votes
    #1.30 - Tue Oct 13, 2009 1:22 PM EDT
    Janeinthisworld

    I'm curious to know why this smart, serious 6 year-old cub scout didn't know there was a zero tolerance policy at school. (Just askin'!)

    Someone said it is the idiots in charge who are the problem. I agree. However, those idiots are parents, not school personnel. The reason this became a zero tolerance policy to begin with is because parents can't be bothered to actually teach and control their kids anymore. School employees ARE trying to cover their butts....so they don't get stabbed there.

    This policy won't effect any positive change for this little boy. It's a waste of time and energy for everyone involved. Time for these parents to find another school. It's good they found out about this now, instead of several years down the road.

    • 5 votes
    #1.31 - Tue Oct 13, 2009 1:25 PM EDT
    tony-268769

    The schools in this nation are growing loonier by the day. Maybe they should waterboard the little cherub and fine his parents before shuffling off to reform school.

    In no time at all, the boy can be spiffed up with a clean white oxford shirt and sing the chorus in the latest Obama love-fest video.

    • 7 votes
    #1.32 - Tue Oct 13, 2009 1:26 PM EDT
    Eileen V-635375

    Again a potentially good rule, destroyed by lack of common sense by those who enforce it......are they going to outlaw all forks, spoons and knives in their cafeteria?

    My daughter got in trouble for bringing 'medication' to school.......medicated lip balm that is....the school nurse called and said that since her tube of Blistex (for the winter chapped lips she had) had the works "medicated" on the label, she would need a Doctor's note to be allowed to use it in school.....WTF? Come on.....common sense folks.

    Obviously this is their oldest child and they haven't dealt with the petty, stringent rule interpretation.....how hard would it have been to take it away, call the parents, explain that it is unacceptable at school, and been done with it.....NO, lets get the world involved and make this mole hill a mountain!

    I really wish they put that kind of effort into education.

    • 15 votes
    #1.33 - Tue Oct 13, 2009 1:26 PM EDT
    KJR

    Ridiculous. This child is not a threat to anyone, and reform school is not going to bring about anything positive for anyone.

    Believe it or not, nearly fifty years ago, my four year old brother and I (five years old) spent a night in the hospital to have our tonsils removed. In the evening when visiting hours were over and my parents had to leave, my brother and I were upset at being left alone in this place without our parents. Something that my dad always carried in his pocket and was very fond of, was his boyscout pocket jackknife, and so he placed it in the bedside stand drawer that sat between the two of ours hospital beds (with the nurse on duty's knowledge), and told us not to touch it, but we would know he was coming back in the morning...as he would never be without his jack knife. It calmed us down to have something special of our dad's nearby, and we were able to go to sleep. All went well...the next morning my dad was back and we had our surgery and went home together. Today, my dad would probably be arrested and prosecuted for such a gesture...maybe thrown in jail for a time...and what good would that have accomplished for two scared little kids...or anyone else? I understand there must be rules to keep kids safe in school, but intent must figure into the equasion, and a little common sense should tell anyone this child needs only to be talked to and have the concerns over his bringing his cubscout tool to school explained...which obviously has already been done. I don't care what color or ethnicity a child is...we should be just as apalled at any first grade child being treated in this manner...not try to make up for any unfair treatment another may have received by continuing a ridiculous practice...which is not fixing any injustice from the past...only perpetuating it.

    I do not blame these parents for not realizing that the little boy took this cubscout tool to school to eat lunch with...kids do sometimes act on something without our knowledge, but ultimately, it is parents who are responsible when young children take something dangerous to school...if someone must be sent to special classes, instead of reform school for the six year old, send parents in these types of situations to a safe parenting class. I am sure the parents would gladly comply with this policy, and it would bring more awareness and positive results for all in the community, in sharing the adult responsibility of keeping children safe.

    • 10 votes
    #1.34 - Tue Oct 13, 2009 1:27 PM EDT
    Norcal2

    Yo there you said LEFTIST? I challenge you to find more than a handful of right or left who think this is right. This is one of those unified issues in case you missed that. No one thinks this 6 year old should be punished like this. Come on now...

    They ought to fire the administrator of that school for being so dumb. Schools can have zero tolerance and have the punishment fit the incident. This school decision is not even logical. A 5 or 6 year old sweety is not the same as a street thug. Motivation is everything. This baby's motivation was eating his lunch with his favorite camping utensil. This is over punishing and if the school is going to send kids to reform school the crime better fit the sentence.

    • 6 votes
    #1.35 - Tue Oct 13, 2009 1:29 PM EDT
    James8

    Mike in so cal  seems to be missing the point that the school whats to send him to reform school over this issue.  It seemed like everybody carried a knife to when i was in school. (senior 1988) And there was no trouble. Now alot of liberal minded people will say that  "times have changed" and I say that people have changed the way things where done such as punishment for bad behavior. The real issue we face is how do we teach our children right frim wrong when you're hands are tied and there is no punishment for the wrong. Instead of looking at each case with common since they just place everybody in the same catagory and that is wrong.

     

    • 6 votes
    #1.36 - Tue Oct 13, 2009 1:30 PM EDT
    JF from FLA

    why punish a child that is not old enough to understand why he is being punished?

    If he doesn't understand why he is being punished, that is the fault of the parents. They should have made it clear when he got that knife that it was never to go to school. Of course a six-year-old doesn't know better, but the parents of a six-year-old should. Maybe 45 days in reform school is a little harsh, but that is the rule that was in place, and if you make an exception for one, you have to make an exception for all. And some of the blame for that lies with the people who want to cry "racism" or "discrimination" at every turn. The only way to avoid that is to treat everybody the same. I agree that this kid may not have the same reason for taking the knife to school as an 8th grader might. But unless that 8th grader is a blonde haired blue eyed white male, his parents will sue for discrimination if this kid gets off.

    the school district should be sued for the emotional distress this nonsense will cause this child and his classmates!

    ...and if an older kid had found the knife and hurt himself or another child, the school district would be sued for not doing enough to prevent it. Just last month a 15 year old high school boy was fatally stabbed by another 15 year old at a local school. The mother is probably going to sue the district for failing to protect her son. So its damned if you do, damned if you don't. Maybe they should have different consequences on the elementary, middle and high school levels, but these consequences should be uniform and not done on a case-by-case basis. The parents dropped the ball on this one, and they have to take responsibility for it, as well as teach their son that actions have consequences, and when you break a rule, you get punished.

    • 2 votes
    #1.37 - Tue Oct 13, 2009 1:32 PM EDT
    floyd-335513

    If my child I would have done the same thing, home schooled him and dared the authorities to come get him.

    • 4 votes
    #1.38 - Tue Oct 13, 2009 1:33 PM EDT
    Somesense

    A knife, a fork, a spoon, all can be used as a weapon. I was stab with a pencil in junior high. It always come down to intent. The kid was going to eat lunch with it. I blame the teacher as much as any person or policy. If the teacher was actually a teacher, they would have took the knife, had a conference with child and a parent and no harm would have come of it. But once again we don't want to think cause we are punished by policy and CYA by policy.

    • 5 votes
    #1.39 - Tue Oct 13, 2009 1:37 PM EDT
    Camilo Flores

    Yes I agree with you, I have paid consequences for unintended actions also, for a weapon that was brought into school and it wasn't even by me, My name got comfused, nothing was found on me, and the person/persons who brought it got away with it, and I had given them advice not to even take it into the bus, and they didn't listen, so I think it is a racial ISSUE, there was a case a mile away from my parent's house, at ANTHEM at MERRIL RANCH where a 5 year old shot his brother, wether he meant it or not he Killed him. Had somebody intercepted him soon enough, like this Teacher did. His brother could still be alive. Be thankfull this kid got stopped before school started, so it might have been a change of destiny. We might be watching this same case with a different story right now.

    • 2 votes
    #1.40 - Tue Oct 13, 2009 1:39 PM EDT
    floyd-335513

    have any of you ever worked in a reform school? I have and I'll tell you there were more kids than not that came out of that school a bigger criminal than they were when they went in. White, Black, and Hispanic included.

    • 4 votes
    #1.41 - Tue Oct 13, 2009 1:40 PM EDT
    Norcal2

    JF it is on the school not to be lazy. If they sentence children to reform school they better darn sure consider age and motivation. I am sorry but they are adults too. The schools should be the place that makes up for other adults in a child's life that may drop the ball because they didn't think of it. The school is the issue not the parents.

    Since they are the ones sentencing kids, they better get it right. 5 and 6 year olds have no business being sent to Reform School period.

    • 6 votes
    #1.42 - Tue Oct 13, 2009 1:40 PM EDT
    HRDawg

    Be afraid, be very afraid.

    The cub scouts are coming.

    • 13 votes
    #1.43 - Tue Oct 13, 2009 1:41 PM EDT
    Darthfrodo

    Adorable kid, adorable family. I think the school will learn something positive from this. 5 seconds of listening to him talk could change the mind of a lion.

    Don't let his calm demeanor and warm smile fool you. He was there for a hit.

    • 11 votes
    #1.44 - Tue Oct 13, 2009 1:41 PM EDT
    Mo-291261

    The word is "than" not "then." One must take into account the child, the age of the child, the weapon or perceived weapon and what use it may have. This school is full of idiots, as are most schools in this country. A teaching degree is the easiest one to get because most universities have dumbed down the curriculum. Reform school? For a 6 year old? Who the hell dreams this sh_t up anyway? School administrators and board members who have no actual education when it comes to managing children. What a piece of work.

    • 5 votes
    #1.45 - Tue Oct 13, 2009 1:45 PM EDT
    KJR

    :-) Thanks for the chuckle, Darthfrodo

    • 4 votes
    #1.46 - Tue Oct 13, 2009 1:46 PM EDT
    Angie-503069

    A school's no tolerance policy doesn't cut down on crime ONE BIT. So if a kid brings a gun to school for the purpose of killing someone, how does the no tolerance policy help? No one will find out that he brought the gun to school until after he kills someone. The no tolerance policy has nothing to do with safety of the children. It's only there to keep the school from being sued in the case that a child gets hurt by the actions of some other kid who brought a weapon to school. This world is all about politics.

    • 5 votes
    #1.47 - Tue Oct 13, 2009 1:46 PM EDT
    spider-737231

    Left wing PC gone wild. A pocket knife is a tool. I, like others in this thread, have carried one since I became a cub scout many years ago. All of my schoolmates carried them too, yet nobody got stabbed. But now, we live in an age where instead of yanking violent people (of any age) out of society and separating them from the normal folks, we "educate" and "rehabilitate" them. B.S.! Lock 'em up and leave the rest of us the hell alone.

    • 4 votes
    #1.48 - Tue Oct 13, 2009 1:48 PM EDT
    KayCee-1390629

    Geez!! 45 days, come on now!!! This little one uses these utensils in his scout meets, and his scout leaders have taught him how to safely use it. SO now, what does this do to the little boy? He will now look at his scout tools as bad weapons, when all he knew was that he can use it to eat his food. I am sure that if the parents and school officials all got togethr and calmly explain to the little one that he cannot bring the tools to school, he will probably understand that better than them explaining why his scout tools cost him 45 days out of school, and that his tools are only to be used with his scout outings and camping. For God's sake, don't punish him with 45 days out of school!!!! First they (educated adults) say how education is important to kids and that perfect attendance is essential for success, but yet they want to kick him to the curb for 45 days!! Am I the only one seeing a bunch of hypocrites here?!!

    • 4 votes
    #1.49 - Tue Oct 13, 2009 1:50 PM EDT
    Marty-401103

    This whole story is crazy, does the school staff and administration have not a brain one between them. Everyday I find something new and amazing in the American news. Land of the ???? and home of the ????.

    • 3 votes
    #1.50 - Tue Oct 13, 2009 1:51 PM EDT
    alk0509

    I see many posts ranting and raving that it's the parent's fault for not teaching the boy to leave the knife at home. I guess none of you have even been in the Scouts. The meetings are usually held in the school! So this boy has probably brought his tool (I refuse to say knife) to school for the Cub meetings. Not all 6 year olds can understand bringing something to school for a meeting is different from bringing it to school for lunch. This is a case of teach him that it's wrong, and move on.

    Zero tolerance policies make everyone feel real good about them until something like this happens, where it's obvious that school officials lack common sense and too lazy to do anything actually for the benefit of the kids. Like the little girl who had Advil and was strip searched to find the pills because of a zero tolerance drug policy. What is wrong with our schools these days?

    ANd as for the argument, if another student had found it and stabbed someone, then it would be the school's fault - NO! Here's a novel idea, the person who picked up some implement and hurt someone else with it is to blame, not the school. People need to be held accountable for their actions, with the punishment fitting the crime, and when schools are involved, then the parents should be right there to decide punishment. When did schools take over and dictate to parents, instead of working with them?

    • 5 votes
    #1.51 - Tue Oct 13, 2009 1:52 PM EDT
    tony-268769

    HR...

    It's not just 'cub scouts' that are coiming....they're "armed' cub scouts.

      #1.52 - Tue Oct 13, 2009 1:56 PM EDT
      The Colonel-964761

      Here ya go people. This is is the kind of idiocy you get when a bunch of politically-correct libtards and demo-thugs take control. All I had to see was that it was Delaware to understand why this lunacy happened.

      Can't wait till they take over our health insurance.

        #1.53 - Tue Oct 13, 2009 2:01 PM EDT
        maddog-752810

        "Board member John Mackenzie said that teachers and administrators need the freedom to use their commonsense when it's obvious that a child presents no danger."

        "Zachary was suspended immediately for five school days. At the end of the suspension, he and his mother appeared before the district’s disciplinary action committee, where his principal and others spoke up for his good character. It didn’t matter. The committee’s hands were tied. The rules said he had brought a knife to school and would have to spend 45 days in the reform school."

        If this isn't absolutely insane then I don't know what is. Who hires these people to make up these idiotic rules and who are these hard core committee members who insist on such a strict interpretation of the rules. It's no wonder our school system is going to hell. I can't help but remember when I went to school. We weren't treated like mindless zombies pumped with drugs to make it easier for the teachers. Teachers were allowed to take corrective action and in most cases they did, without the help of a politically correct committee. I'd pull my kid out of that school so fast they'd only hear the sound of the armored door closing.

        • 2 votes
        #1.54 - Tue Oct 13, 2009 2:10 PM EDT
        JF from FLA

        it is on the school not to be lazy.

        I think it is on the parents to make sure their kids know the rules. The school's job is educating the kids and keeping them safe. It is up to the parents to raise them.

        Since they are the ones sentencing kids, they better get it right.

        And had these parents gotten it right, no sentencing would be necessary.

        • 1 vote
        #1.55 - Tue Oct 13, 2009 2:10 PM EDT
        Deke-1776

        No doubt DHS has put this little terrorist and his parents on the al-Quaeda watchlist. Reform school? Wouldn't a trip to Guantanamo be more appropriate?

        I'm amazed that myself and all my friends carried pocket knives when we were kids and there was never any sort of massacre at our school.

        I'm praying for the day that common sense and not state-mandated nonsense prevails once again. Preventative nonsense such as this "zero tolerance" policy really has little chance of preventing anything. Should we start living deep underground to prevent us from being hit by a meterorite? It COULD happen! We should prepare now!

        • 2 votes
        #1.56 - Tue Oct 13, 2009 2:11 PM EDT
        ftk1945

        Mike, you are a true example of the major problem in out society. Please stay in So Ca.

        • 2 votes
        #1.57 - Tue Oct 13, 2009 2:16 PM EDT
        Microsoft sucks

        This is the school district's fault. They should send out a rule handbook or place one online for all parents to read. The parents should've had common sense to teach their kid that he's not allowed to take a knife to school. The school district should also have the common sense to notify parents of their expectation before kids even start the new school year. It's their responsiblity to make sure parents sign off on the local school rules. No sign-off, no entrance to school. This was just another case of teachers and parents not paying attention. Thankfully this whole episode was harmless, but to scold the kid is ludacris. It's the parents and the school board that should take the blame for not having any critical reasoning skills. Maybe this is why the US grade school system is worthless compared to other industrialzed countries.

        When I was his age the rural kids were bringing the same type of utility knives to school. Not for protection reasons, but for redneck bling. It wasn't a security issue until the kids turned 13.

        • 1 vote
        #1.58 - Tue Oct 13, 2009 2:19 PM EDT
        John Toradze

        Hey there Colonel. I am quite liberal. And I think we should have a national health service just like EVERY OTHER civilized nation on the planet. (Note that the military runs a great nationwide health service, eh?)

        But this whole zero tolerance business is idiocy to the point of insanity. The Columbine massacre wasn't done with sporks, not done with switchblades. That, and every other massacre on campus was done with guns and homemade bombs. Every one of those kids who committed a massacre had been taking SSRI antidepressants. And not one of those kids was black.

        Jacknives,and sporks aren't the problem. Being out of touch with the kids and teachers being unable to get a little physical is the problem. I went to school when a teacher was allowed to keep a paddle hanging up and use it to enforce discipline. It never went out of bounds, and it worked well.

        • 3 votes
        #1.59 - Tue Oct 13, 2009 2:23 PM EDT
        Casino Worker

        John Mackenzie said that teachers and administrators need the freedom to use their commonsense when it's obvious that a child presents no danger.

        What is this world coming to when we have thrown-en out COMMONSENSE in favor of state run control system. It sound more like Russia or Nazi Germany.

        This story should never have gone this far.

        This is FEAR MONGERING at it's best!

        • 2 votes
        #1.60 - Tue Oct 13, 2009 2:25 PM EDT
        Peed-off Peon

        Responsibility for a 6 year old. Where are the teachers? Dont they make sure that these kinds understand the school rules. They should sit them down in the school and go through the manual, explain the rules and tell them what is forbidden to be brought to the school. Instead they send the paperwork home and have the parents sign the document stating that the kids will be good little robots. I have kids and I explained to them that some things are not allowed. But how long will a 6 year old remember that. About 3 seconds before going off to watch the next cartoon. They should "remind" these children every once in a while which things are not allowed. RESPONSIBILITY FOR A 6 YEAR OLD. Thats funny when most adults dont have any responsibility. Our government seems to lack this. Why would our children have any.

        Oh. By the way. Now we should ban pencils and pens, could poke someone to death. Pencils are very dangerous weapons.

        Backpacks, could strangle someone with the strap.

        Shoe laces. Might tie a noose with em. Where does it end. If someone wants to hurt someone they will use whatever is at there disposal. Close their head in a locker, beat their head off the handrail or cement steps. NO MORE SHOP TIME. Could make weapons down in the industrial arts room.

        The amount of things useful as a weapon or something that could potential hurt someone is limitless. The educators need to get back to doing what they are supposed to: EDUCATING the children.

        • 1 vote
        #1.61 - Tue Oct 13, 2009 2:35 PM EDT
        A REPUBLICAN

        bopdaddytoo- You should use the words bureaucrats and intelligence in the same sentence! Those words have opposite meanings!

        • 1 vote
        #1.62 - Tue Oct 13, 2009 2:46 PM EDT
        Ian Blokesworth

        BAMOE wrote "I was a Cubmaster for six years we always told the boys who received there whittling chips not to take there knifes to school sometimes it happens sorry to say but this boy would of had all four sides of his card cut off and would of had to retake the course in order to bring his knife to any Cub Scouting event."
        Cub scouts teach young boys how to use common household items such as knives responsibly.

          #1.63 - Tue Oct 13, 2009 2:55 PM EDT
          "Walker, Texas Ranger"

          Question #1: Are lunch boxes searched for sharp objects such as plastic knives?

          Question #2: Does the cafeteria have utensils that include plastic knives or forks? Yes, forks can be modified to a lethal sharp weapon.

          Question #3: Are all pencils removed from access to the children since they are also capable of sustaining live threathening injuries.

          Question #4: Is this society and leadership just plain stupied or lack common sense.

          Here is a solution: Let's remove anything that could possible be considered a threat or cause potential injury. Examples of such items are; keys, belts with buckles, rings, chains, rulers with a metal edge, glass objects, arts & crafts supplies such as paint brushes with a pointed edge, cutting devices such as razors, coffee pots in the break rooms (coffee or hot beverages could result in third degree burns if tossed correctly). Wait, here's a better idea, let's put the kids in a padded room and teach them via CCTV.

            #1.64 - Tue Oct 13, 2009 3:20 PM EDT
            Rosie-806261

            So what do these kids use in the shcools' cafeterias to eat their lunches? Their bare hands? If they are able to handle forks and knives at the cafeteria, and the adults supervising them trust them with these utensils, why doubt them with the Scouts tool?

            Some of these schools' supervisors are quite an example for the students, no doubt... but an example of how not to behave as adults...

            • 1 vote
            #1.65 - Tue Oct 13, 2009 3:21 PM EDT
            I Hate School

            AAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGHHHH!!!!

            This is why I homeschool my kids. Far too often the people who run schools are the mediocre of the mediocre. C+ students, and D- administrators. Absolutely pathetic.

            And Mike in Southern Cali... WHO GIVES A HOOT ABOUT DESCRIMINATION CHARGES! Even the LAW allows for intent. It's gone too far! It has to stop! If a black kid brings a knife to school and it's obvious he did it for malicious reasons HE SHOULD BE PUNISHED. So should a white kid IF it was for malicious reasons.

            This little boy (and he is a VERY little boy, mind you) didn't look at his tool as a weapon. He's simply too young to appreciate the difference. And to those who say it's the parents' fault, you must not have children. I have 3, and I'll tell you right now, I tell them to do all sorts of things... often they choose to obey me, and occasionally they choose not to. Like us adults, they are human beings with free will. Anyone who thinks that they actually control their children is a deluded fool.

            This is insanity, and if it was your kid, Mike, you would be devastated. The punishment does not fit the crime!

            Each day I'm more thankful that I made the decision to pull my kids out of our pathetic school system. I have a zero tolerance policy for schools these days.

              #1.66 - Tue Oct 13, 2009 3:26 PM EDT
              Janeinthisworld

              School cafeterias do not hand out knives and they haven't for a few decades.

                #1.67 - Tue Oct 13, 2009 3:33 PM EDT
                KJR

                Bamoe..."I was a Cubmaster for six years we always told the boys who received there whittling chips not to take there knifes to school sometimes it happens sorry to say but this boy would of had all four sides of his card cut off and would of had to retake the course in order to bring his knife to any Cub Scouting event"

                That makes little sense. How is it safe for him to have his "knife" at Cub Scouting events with other kids...maybe even at public places like school...but not safe to have it at school lunch? How is he supposed to differentiate that at six years old? Maybe the whole idea of awarding six year olds a "knife" should be looked at, as it sounds like a confusing concept for a six year old to grasp... if you are going to take this tough stance, possibly we should consider that some responsibility could rest with scouting protocol? OR, more seriously and sensible, MAYBE it would be more productive for all the kids to simply have this boy discuss with the rest of his cubscout pack, what happened when he brought his cubscout camping tool to school... and explain all the safety reasons why it isn't allowed? He is ONLY six years old.

                • 1 vote
                #1.68 - Tue Oct 13, 2009 3:34 PM EDT
                Damon-1254638

                The problem, Mike, isn't that the kid broke the rules, it's that you are clearly a cynic. You assume the worst from everyone involved in this situation, which flags you immediately as a failure of critical thinking. No child grabbed the knife and went on a killing spree when he dropped it on the bus, because children don't do that. Never have, never will. Kids like to make trouble-- jumping in puddles and splashing and the like-- always have, always will, period. Punishing them for being themselves is not the answer. And imposing a harsh "no tolerance" policy in the name of anti-discrimination only does two things: further pussifies our country more than it already has been, and takes focus away from the blacks in the school district which are probably committing a majority of the crimes, any way. When 70% of your complaints are about black kids in a community that is 70% black, that's not racial profiling, that's a fact of numbers.

                I hope every child in this school starts carrying knives so they have to shut the school down and nobody gets an education. Maybe then the parents will grow some balls.

                  #1.69 - Tue Oct 13, 2009 3:35 PM EDT
                  SpoxLogic

                  "Zero-tolerance" is just the shortcut way of saying: "We are too damned stupid and lazy to deal with the nuances of such dilemmas. We also tend to over react as well."

                  • 2 votes
                  #1.70 - Tue Oct 13, 2009 4:05 PM EDT
                  tyler

                  1.18 deleted, WLEIT advocating a return to segregation. Sweet trolling. Between this and your history of attacking folks, you're suspended for a day for violating #1 and #5 of the Code of Honor. Do better.

                  • 4 votes
                  #1.71 - Tue Oct 13, 2009 4:08 PM EDT
                  blaze-1408390

                  Websters new definition of an idiot: Mike from So Cal.

                  All people are not all the same and shouldn't be lumped together in a "catagory". People not only need to have some common sense, they have to use it. Let's get real people.

                  Ftk1945, you nailed it.

                    #1.72 - Tue Oct 13, 2009 4:27 PM EDT
                    Bill-541803

                    People like your self are incapable of intelligent though processes. You are sooooo worried about a Boy Scout knife, which is actually a utilitarian devise, that you are blinded by the obvious fact that anything at hand can be used as a weapon. I will venture to say you have no qualms about placing an ink pen, a ball point pen or a pencil in any child's hand without a second thought but a Boy Scout knife? No way you say because that is a weapon! What in the world do you think a writing instrument is? A pen or a pencil can used to stab someone with but I don't hear any one complaining about children carrying them around. What about boy's belts? They can be used to choke some one with or at the very least the buckle can be used to inflict severe harm to another student. Are we to now insist that students not wear belts? What about their school books? Those things are heavy enough that one could be used to bludgeon another student with but I don't see any one up on a soap box screaming for the removal of text books from the hall ways or class rooms. It is a big old cruel hard dangerous world out there and anything and everything can be used as a weapon if necessary. Instead of punishing all the innocent children by imposing "zero" tolerance limits on them why aren't you advocating the stern discipline of the children who are really acting up. But no – you would rather stifle the growth of the majority so you can feel good about your self by pacifying the bad.

                      #1.73 - Tue Oct 13, 2009 4:39 PM EDT
                      JOSHUA-320779

                      the problem with the zero tolerance rule has nothing to do with race. the problem is a kid gets in trouble and instead of the teacher handling the issue the student is sent away without any counseling. zero tolerance does not really help the kids that really need help.

                      • 3 votes
                      #1.74 - Tue Oct 13, 2009 5:26 PM EDT
                      ONTIME

                      I take it the commitee decides that the kids in that school and in the district eat with their right hand and that the left hand is used to wipe their little bungs and that is never used for anything except work..... and yet you have to believe the meat of a pig is filth.

                      Some time ago when the useless B.O got selected to the office of POTUS, I wrote a small piece and in it I described the workings of the committee. I used old fashioned communist terms like politburo, pravda and several others that used to be applied to countries such as the Soviet Union, Cuba and Red China, I remember one doubter in particular who seemed aghast that I would reach such conclusions about his recently selected marxist leader, leading us down this path of mundane sameness and destroying the very uniqueness of this blessed nation. This small child is but one of the many examples I can now point to and how this end of true Republic is going to end in chaos and poverty if we do not reject committes with no intellectual common sense such as the one that chastised a small boy for appreciating the Boy Scout tool that is common to all who belong to that organization. I wonder if that person who has expressed this doubt still thinks my speculations were far fetched? I hope they are having real second thoughts about what they have wrought by supporting a person such as this, unskilled, uncredentialed and virtually unknown, totally incapable of leading because he has no real tools, he cannot speak well without a prompter, he is not his own man.

                      This inability to tolerate the mistake of a small child without suspending him is unacceptable, this committee is a bit roughshod and ruthless even towards a child this young and I have read about and seen the how the little brown shirts were state trained in prewar Germany and the youth of the Stalin era in the old Soviet. I can tell you that they were not like the Boy Scouts a private organization devoted to decency, they did not decide just by committee they wanted to bring out individualism, a trait that is fast disappearing here in order to make way for a new era of old depotism.....still doubting me?

                      • 1 vote
                      #1.75 - Tue Oct 13, 2009 6:27 PM EDT
                      Texas Growl

                      "There can be no keener revelation of a society's soul than the way in which it treats its children."

                      Nelson Mandela

                      What message are were really sending this one and his classmates??

                      • 2 votes
                      #1.76 - Tue Oct 13, 2009 9:43 PM EDT
                      Tigere

                      Maybe it's time to shoot the "discrimination" BS in the a** ... that card is just wearing thin ...

                      • 1 vote
                      #1.77 - Wed Oct 14, 2009 12:00 AM EDT
                      Mac-329110

                      When I was in school more than a few years ago carrying a pocket knife at school was against the rules. I am aware of only one case where someone was punished for having a knife at school and that was just sent to the office for a day.

                      My high school chemistry teacher (one of the most respected teachers) stated in class "the rule against carrying a knife is crazy you never know when you might need to cut someone".

                      I have carried one or more knives (depending on where I was and what I was doing) everyday of my life since I was 8 or 10 years old and that is a lot of years.

                        #1.78 - Wed Oct 14, 2009 9:53 PM EDT
                        Quid est Veritas

                        My high school chemistry teacher (one of the most respected teachers) stated in class "the rule against carrying a knife is crazy you never know when you might need to cut someone".

                        I have carried one or more knives (depending on where I was and what I was doing) everyday of my life since I was 8 or 10 years old and that is a lot of years.

                        Do you live in Baltimore or the Amazon?

                          #1.79 - Wed Oct 14, 2009 11:19 PM EDT
                          Reply
                          Constitutional Patriot

                          Punishing the innocent for the mis-deeds of the guilty. It's a darn good thing that this young boy willingly gave up his camping tool, absolutely not knowing he had done anything wrong, or the "weapons Nazis" would have strip-searched him, and body-cavity searched him, all the while not realizing that the kids with mayhem on their minds had already smuggled their "weapons of mass destruction" into the school, innocuously disguised as pencils and pens, spiral-bound notebooks, and 20-pound backpacks.

                          A nation of fear in every community.......what a waste.

                          • 32 votes
                          #2 - Tue Oct 13, 2009 10:58 AM EDT
                          Randy Israel Idaho

                          You have completely missed the point here. Zero tolerance is zero tolerance, period. I agree that the powers to be went to far, but I base this on what I know from the information given. There is another side to this story. We are not privy to that side here and any rational adult would realize this. Please read my post. As for your comments, I feel they are unwarranted and completely biased. Ask yourself this question: How would I feel if a child took a multi-tool to school and it was taken from him by another child and used as a weapon on another student, be it mine or someone else's son or daughter?

                          • 3 votes
                          #2.1 - Tue Oct 13, 2009 12:06 PM EDT
                          MagnoliaSimms

                          Randy:

                          "Ask yourself this question: How would I feel if a child took a multi-tool to school and it was taken from him by another child and used as a weapon on another student, be it mine or someone else's son or daughter?"

                          But how far should that fear go? Do we live in fear that every little thing might be a potential threat? Do we no longer issue forks with their lunches, in case a child decides to take it with him and attack another student with it?

                          You mentioned the weapons used in 9/11, but this really doesn't compare at all in this situation. This is a six year old child who didn't know any better. I have a six year old niece, and while she is very smart, she sometimes doesn't understand why she shouldn't do something, or say something, until she's told. This was a child who had been told it was all right to use his Swiss Army knife with the utensils, so he just wanted to use them for lunch. Until he's told otherwise, how was he supposed to know he shouldn't use it at school?

                          Most kids that age don't have malicious intent when they do something like this. They just don't know and don't understand. I really think the school should take into consideration the circumstances. I don't think the same set of rules should apply to a six year old as a sixteen year old. There are major maturity and knowledge differences between those ages.

                          I think the teacher was correct in taking it away from him and calling his parents. I don't think 45 days in a reform school is really necessary in this case. I think this is a case that the parents should explain to their son why he shouldn't bring his Swiss Army knife to school.

                          • 19 votes
                          #2.2 - Tue Oct 13, 2009 12:52 PM EDT
                          scottdb

                          Randy if you are going to play whats the worst that could happen scenario here then you missed the point big time.If this child or any other was some elite killer like he is being made out to be then theres plenty other resources available to him all over the school.These school systems like anything else try to make it look like they are right on top of the situation always after some tragic event takes place.If the boy had some intent to do wrong then ok take action.Otherwise give the child a stern reminder and clearer image what is considered a weapon rather than a fascinating Boy Scout utensil.Since he is so young and easy to coerce I'm sure they could have got him to admit to it if harm was intended.I know those young males can be deceptive and strong willed but a little water boarding gets them every time.Just be sure he knows up front not to mistake the water boarding for water play.Go study some common sense and spread the word.

                          • 4 votes
                          #2.3 - Tue Oct 13, 2009 12:55 PM EDT
                          PublicSpeech

                          Randy I. Idaho: You say, "As for your comments, I feel they are unwarranted and completely biased."

                          Whose comments, Randy? You are not very discerning and rather discriminatory. There are too many comments in too many veins of thought for you to make such a broad statement. Likewise who established you as the authority and basis of all authority and absoluteness? Seriously! [Consider that whoever it was who established you as this authority is above you too!]

                          • 3 votes
                          #2.4 - Tue Oct 13, 2009 12:58 PM EDT
                          Un-Common Common Sense

                          Randy,

                          I believe your point is that you are perfectly happy to live in a Socialist Society in which someone else does your thinking for you. Most of us that are not involved in the Government or our Communist Educational System are perfectly capable of thinking for ourselves! We see the Point; we just think you are wrong!

                          • 10 votes
                          #2.5 - Tue Oct 13, 2009 1:08 PM EDT
                          easydoesit

                          This what happens when the Communist Teachers Union takes over our schools!!

                          Term Limits on Congress Now!!

                          our Communist Educational System

                          Oh pleezze....give it a rest!

                          • 3 votes
                          #2.6 - Tue Oct 13, 2009 1:28 PM EDT
                          tony-268769

                          If the school was so worried that the little boy scout style "multi-tool" could be used as a weapon...will they be confiscating all pencils next ??? I guarantee that one can do a lot of damage with a standard #2 pencil and there are surely plenty of them laying around the school with which the little tykes may someday wage war with one another.

                          • 9 votes
                          #2.7 - Tue Oct 13, 2009 1:31 PM EDT
                          pentangelli

                          There should be Zero Tolerance policy on Zero Tolerance policies. Make administrators use Brains instead of relying on the rules to dictate reaction to situations. Take the Camp Tool Away call the parent, explain that it cant be at school. Inform that if shows up again, that it must be confiscated until the end of the year. Use that approach for children like this one. If you have punk kids with knives at school, then maybe use a different approach.. It has to be a case by case basis. WTF is so GD difficult here?

                            #2.8 - Tue Oct 13, 2009 1:52 PM EDT
                            KayCee-1390629

                            I agree Constitutional - the kid probably don't even understand all this "adult" talk and didn't even know he did anything wrong!! Now he will be thinking that his scouting tools are bad, and I can bet you he will want to quit the scouts after all this!!! I also agree with Tony, what about sharpened pencils or those compass/protractor sets that kids use in school?!! What a bunch of dumb adults, they are confusing those kids like crazy! Damn if they do and damn if they don't!!

                            • 7 votes
                            #2.9 - Tue Oct 13, 2009 1:54 PM EDT
                            Stevie McMichael

                            I'm surprised nobody's mentioned protractors yet...that pointy end would make as effective a weapon as a knife, far more so than a pencil. Some little a-hole stabbed another kid in the hand with one when I was in elementary school, which I'm sure isn't uncommon, yet you don't see them treated as weapons and confiscated.

                            The educational system in this country has been absolutely ridiculous about more than just potential weapons since the mid-90's. I remember years ago hearing on the news about how a kid's dad had accidentally sent him to school with a beer can instead of a pop can in his lunch, because the cans had the same color scheme and the dad was in a hurry. Which, yeah, way to drop the ball, dad, but they wanted to put the kid in some special drug-abuse class (the kid was seven or eight, as I remember). Ridiculous. The DAD should have been brought to account, but not the kid, who of course didn't open it once he realized what it was. It was hardly the child's fault the father wasn't paying enough attention, but the kid was the one who got in trouble. Abso-freaking-lutely ridiculous.

                            • 4 votes
                            #2.10 - Tue Oct 13, 2009 1:59 PM EDT
                            JF from FLA

                            If the school was so worried that the little boy scout style "multi-tool" could be used as a weapon...will they be confiscating all pencils next ???

                            The difference here is a knife is a weapon, while a pencil is designed as a writing utensil. Just like scissors (a potential weapon as well) are designed as a paper cutting utensil. However, if a child picks either of these up and commits or attempts to commit bodily harm on another, they are prosecuted under the weapons policy. Meaning that pencil becomes a weapon if it is used as one for purposes of punishment. In short, a knife is not a school supply, therefore its mere possession is a violation of the weapons policy.

                            And if the parents had read the policy, I'm sure it specifies knives as weapons that are not permitted at school. So either the parents were negligent in not fully understanding the policy and telling their child not to bring the knife to school, or they did tell him and he disobeyed.

                            • 2 votes
                            #2.11 - Tue Oct 13, 2009 2:19 PM EDT
                            John Toradze

                            Oh, for god's sake, get a grip people! People like Randy and JF are the sort that got us into this idiocy to begin with.

                            How on earth does it make sense to respond to Columbine (a massacre by teens under psychological treatment with guns and bombs) by confiscating sporks and small knives? We are not and have not seen kids stabbing each other with knives en masse.

                            The fact that there is a policy does not make that policy worth upholding just because it exists.

                            • 10 votes
                            #2.12 - Tue Oct 13, 2009 2:31 PM EDT
                            Ian Blokesworth

                            Randy Israel Idaho wrote "You have completely missed the point here. Zero tolerance is zero tolerance, period."
                            Why do we need "Zero Tolerance" today when such restrictive policies were not needed yesterday? New, enlightened parenting practices of the last thirty years should have already produced children with perfect social adjustment. How are we doing now?

                            • 7 votes
                            #2.13 - Tue Oct 13, 2009 3:04 PM EDT
                            SadStateAmerica

                            JF - Obviously you don't have kids or if you do, do you search their backpack and pockets every morning before school? Do you then search their backpack and pockets once you have arrived at school? The parents could have told this child it was not ok to bring this to school and, because he was 6 years old, may have forgotten and brought it to school. Yes, this child should not have brought this to school, but the punishment DOES NOT fit the crime.

                            Also, next time you try to cut your steak, remember, that knife your using isn't a tool, its a WEAPON!

                            • 7 votes
                            #2.14 - Tue Oct 13, 2009 3:26 PM EDT
                            Damon-1254638

                            Israel said: "How would I feel if a child took a multi-tool to school and it was taken from him by another child and used as a weapon on another student, be it mine or someone else's son or daughter?"

                            A completely acceptable risk. Not the original child's fault that another child had cruel intentions, and we are certainly not obligated as adults to remove anything potentially harmful from our schools to appease a few psychos.

                            Maybe reform your damn education system first?

                            • 8 votes
                            #2.15 - Tue Oct 13, 2009 3:41 PM EDT
                            JF from FLA

                            People like Randy and JF are the sort that got us into this idiocy to begin with.

                            How so? If I had a kid with a knife, he would know it does not belong at school. I would make him understand that school is no place for a knife. And if he was caught with one after being told not to bring it, he would deserve to be punished. It is "lazy" parents that don't take the time to set boundaries for their children that get us into this idiocy. I agree 45 days of reform school is a bit harsh for a first offense, but this has to be addressed, because a rule was broken. I don''t care if only 1 kid gets stabbed to death at school, if it is your kid, that's one too many. And the reason for zero tolerance policies and uniform punishments is the people who sue for discrimination. You let this kid off, and 6 months down the road, a black kid gets caught with a knife. Well, you had damned well better let him off too, or face a lawsuit. So I have nothing to do with this "idiocy". I just think the way you learn is to get punished for breaking the rules, not finding ways to get out of them. 45 days in reform? OK, a bit much. But the kid should be made to know that actions have consequences. And if the kid didn't know what he was doing was wrong, he needs someone to teach him. And if the parents didn't do it, it becomes the school's job to, even though it shouldn't be.

                              #2.16 - Tue Oct 13, 2009 3:49 PM EDT
                              rodger-1311418Deleted
                              Ken-848629

                              A mandetory sentence regardless of review is a dangerous position to have ever been put into place. The school board is sending a dangerous message of things to come. That is the entire point. These are strange times we live in.

                              • 9 votes
                              #2.18 - Tue Oct 13, 2009 9:04 PM EDT
                              Richard Baxter

                              This is where American has put it's self. What a assine policy. Where do we go from here? Thought police? Utter the word God in school and your suspended for weeks? Please, I know the northeast brought us the likes of Kennedy, Gore,etc,etc. But when schools get to the point where we're sending 1st graders to reform school for bring a boy-scout knife to school, its just plain stupid on the school's part as well as the foolish school boards making such a policy.

                              • 7 votes
                              #2.19 - Tue Oct 13, 2009 9:22 PM EDT
                              Sara-1409542

                              No tolerance is good but controversy. I think there is a lesson to be learned. The parents and children should know the school's policy and the parents should have control of what their child brings to school. If the child slips something by their parents then the child should suffer the consequences. Children need to learn that their are consequences when you break a rule.

                              I also agree that the school needs to consider the offence when deciding the consequence. It should fit the offence.

                                #2.20 - Tue Oct 13, 2009 9:43 PM EDT
                                PublicSpeech

                                Speak, speak; make yourself heard, quickly. Perhaps before we do all of this speaking everyone should consider that these rules are made by adult human beings. It is also adult human beings who demand rules (and then stand by to see who will make up the rules for them).

                                How many adult human beings are here reading and commenting on this board?

                                  #2.21 - Tue Oct 13, 2009 9:56 PM EDT
                                  Ace-312731

                                  I believe he should be placed in the old drive-in movie compound and watch re-education films until he learns his lesson. No free thinking in our new society.

                                    #2.22 - Tue Oct 13, 2009 9:59 PM EDT
                                    Rudderfish-1370204

                                    JF,

                                    How do you sleep at night having all kinds of weapons in your own home?!  If you have children, how can you expose them to such dangers?!  Have you sat them down and explained to them that you have weapons in the house?  Do you have an alarm system installed in your home to keep these weapons out of the reach of criminals?  Have you been fingerprinted and passed a background check?  Do you lock your kitchen drawers when you aren't in the kitchen using those deadly weapons?

                                    Don't preach to others until you prove that you keep all of your weapons in your kitchen locked up and away from anybody who may use them for sinister purposes.

                                    • 2 votes
                                    #2.23 - Tue Oct 13, 2009 10:23 PM EDT
                                    saxon

                                    This is a result of letting our children join those right wing military organizations, boy scout, cub scout; he must be sent to the gulag to be re-educated (brainwashed), then he must give the names of all the other members of his cub scout den, so they can be watched. We must not allow this in the, united states socialist republic(ussr). we are destroying common sense and the liberty we have fought for since 1776.

                                    • 5 votes
                                    #2.24 - Tue Oct 13, 2009 10:56 PM EDT
                                    L0NG Beach

                                    They obviously are misplacing their priorities...now they have f6cked this good kid up for life over tis, in ways that go way beyond the comprehension of idiots that sit on that school board...

                                    • 5 votes
                                    #2.25 - Tue Oct 13, 2009 10:57 PM EDT
                                    Quid est Veritas

                                    This is just the tip of the Ice burg children have no rights in public school. When I was in high school I made a promise to myself that I would come back as a lawyer and punish all the worthless individuals at my school with frivolous law suites but alas I am now going to school to be dentist (better hours and no one hates you) While I was in high school one of my fellow classmates drove his moms minivan to school that had a water gun in it like the little dollar store ones from his little toddler brother and he got expelled because when they were doing random drug searches in the parking lot they found it! My sister went to a private school and she never had to deal with any crap like that...... I will NEVER send my children to public school EVER even if I have to live in a double wide!

                                    • 4 votes
                                    #2.26 - Tue Oct 13, 2009 11:15 PM EDT
                                    USAWolf

                                    BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

                                    MY GOD PEOPLE, LISTEN TO YOURSELVES TRYING TO ANALYZE THIS SINISTER CRIMINAL!!!!

                                    HE'S A 6 YEAR OLD CHILD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

                                    He's in first grade. Described as a very good, polite and bright CHILD!!!!!!!! An A-student!!!!! You're all trying to justify or excuse his "behavior". This was an innocent mistake made by an innocent CHILD!!!!!! Then your discussions turn to the collapse of our education system. ROTFLMAO!!!!!!!!! This has nothing to do with our education systems failure. But it does wreak of the stupid POLITICAL CORRECTNESS of our society. He is not a criminal, deviant or terrorist, HE'S A CHILD!!!!!

                                    ZERO TOLERANCE MY ASS. THIS IS ZERO COMMON SENSE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

                                    PERHAPS WE SHOULD CHECK HIS "BUGS BUNNY" LUNCH BOX FOR HIS AK-47!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

                                    • 13 votes
                                    #2.27 - Tue Oct 13, 2009 11:42 PM EDT
                                    Quid est Veritas

                                    USAWolf, I agree with you but I think you need to put the meth pipe down your tweaking.

                                    • 3 votes
                                    #2.28 - Tue Oct 13, 2009 11:48 PM EDT
                                    USAWolf

                                    Quid est Veritas

                                    The answer to your question of "What is Truth" is:

                                    I NEVER tweak.

                                    • 2 votes
                                    #2.29 - Wed Oct 14, 2009 12:06 AM EDT
                                    Jan-357844

                                    Someone said knives are a weapon, they are also used to cut up food. If the kid wanted to hurt someone, he didn't need this to do it. How about scissors, pencils and all that stuff and a lot of people can just use their hands and choke someone. We going to outlaw hands and fists next? As smart as the kid is, I'm sure the teacher and principal could have just talked to him and explained. American, what a joke these days.

                                    • 2 votes
                                    #2.30 - Wed Oct 14, 2009 12:57 AM EDT
                                    ecto

                                    two pencils and a spiral bound note book,extremely extremely extremely dangerous!!! yet allowed in every class room. heck with the proper angle and force you can paralyze and or kill someone with a pen maybe pencil even, also readily available in schools. Imagine what a kid with a car could do at the end of the day, all those kids walking down the side walk and in student parking. a metal fork in the cafeteria? sharpen a cafeteria spoon in shop class. frying pan in home ec, hammer or saw in wood shop? a fire extinguisher can cause some real nice blunt force trauma. drowned someone in the toilet? well would be loud unless you knocked there head into the wall a couple times real quick first.... "so my point?" even a wall can be a weapon, nearly EVERYTHING can be a weapon. so kids need to sit naked without a desk, no pen or pencils, no book bags or books, I guess outside in a field with no trees. make sure there are no rocks. hmmm, you can really do some damage with a fist, knee or elbow. guess they all need to be tied up. nope the rope is to dangerous, chain them up in shackles, now were talkin'. teachers too, no discrimination. but thats still not safe enough, what can we do??? zero tolerance is idiotic. how far can they take it? how many good kids turn into bad kids because they send them to reform school to hang out with the really bad kids. how did people survive till now without the government dictating our every move?

                                    • 3 votes
                                    #2.31 - Wed Oct 14, 2009 1:14 AM EDT
                                    Marlin Dietrich

                                    Is it a knife? Is the policy 0 tolerance? Where was mom when the knife was put in his school bag? Now we want to make the school look like the bad guys!!!!!!!

                                      #2.32 - Wed Oct 14, 2009 4:05 AM EDT
                                      Peter Jacobs

                                      Totally ridiculous situation. America gone paranoid and over board. Welcome to the United Police States, democracy run amuck. When there is no longer a common enemy to worry about we turn our eyes inward and make ourselves the enemy. Total lack of common sense. Policy of the ignorant who can not think outside of a lunch box.

                                      • 6 votes
                                      #2.33 - Wed Oct 14, 2009 4:59 AM EDT
                                      79bandit

                                      Zero tolerance laws make zero sense. That's why we have the judicial system.

                                      • 1 vote
                                      #2.34 - Wed Oct 14, 2009 6:12 AM EDT
                                      William Root

                                      Is this what our nation has become? A bunch of paranoid, hysterical idiots? How many of you for zero tolerance, who thought the school was correct talk on your cell phones while driveing a few thousand pounds of metal down the road, or are against red light camera's at intersections, etc. etc? How about a little common sense? We have become a nation of chicken little's!

                                      • 1 vote
                                      #2.35 - Wed Oct 14, 2009 6:29 AM EDT
                                      Louis-341878

                                      Randy is missing the point, several points. If a child of 10 isn't trainable then what on earth is school for? Secondly, even with zero tolerance, guilty before the law hinges upon intent. Sure we can't guess intent, but again, if a school official can't come to a conclusion on the intent of a six year old, we're in deep deep trouble. Zero tolerance doesn't mean blind justice, it simply means that ALL offences are punished appropriately. In order for there to be an offence there has to be an offender, an intentional offender. The third point has to do with the harshness of the punishment. If zero tolerance meant that the same extreme measures were to be taken against all offenders then our jails would be filled with six year olds like this boy here, why not send him to jail for menacing with a deadly weapon? I could go on but I'll stick to three.

                                      • 1 vote
                                      #2.36 - Wed Oct 14, 2009 7:04 AM EDT
                                      ChevsMark

                                      Marlin Dietrich

                                      The utility tool was in his pocket, not in a backpack. You and others here need to read the article before you start reacting via Newsvine.

                                      As far as the rule goes, 0 tolerance is just that, no equivocation...0 common sense. That is what educators practice. Unfortunatly, you can't teach common sense, but judgement is something that should be part of any child's upbringing. This was obviously a simple case of poor judgement that I'm sure will not be repeated by this child, but we have to recall that he is only 6 years old.

                                      Educators should be forced to take logic based studies before they are allowed to get in front of children to educate them. Otherwise you get situations like the teacher in VA who was teaching children 5-6 years old in her music class anti Bush songs. She is my sister, so I heard it first hand..from her. She thought it was funny! Too bad for her, kids told their parents and some complained...she does not work in that private school any more....at least someone had common sense!

                                      I too hope that this kid is not scarred by this experience. It is those who promote a nanny state that are the problem, not a 6 year old cub scout.

                                      • 1 vote
                                      #2.37 - Wed Oct 14, 2009 7:28 AM EDT
                                      Skiddy

                                      Why are black kids punished disproportionally?

                                      Could it be they misbehave disproportionally?

                                      • 1 vote
                                      #2.38 - Wed Oct 14, 2009 8:58 AM EDT
                                      PJ Stuart

                                      "Zero tolerance", the American education systems newest catch phrase. Well I have zero tolerance for absolute stupidity and ignorance. How easy it must be for our educators to have a simple, thought free solution. How ridiculous!

                                      This was a small little boy proud of his scouting experience and used to using his Swiss Army knife at home for meals. It has been allowed in his hands a long time with not a single assault or murder. Give me a break. Educators are supposed to THINK! They are called to teach subjects without bias and give kids a chance to form their own opinions after receiving facts from a subject; ALL facts.

                                      Here is my new Zero Tolerance rule; next time a teacher or principal makes such a stupid mistake, they need to be suspended. Do it again, and you are out. They are charged with forming the minds of our children in a open forum of thoughts and ideas. They sound more like Gestapo than teachers. Common sense has flown out the windows of our school system and that will adversely affect our children more than apprehending a six year old who simply wanted to use his great scouting tool for lunch. With all the outcasts, disturbing behavior and out right rebellion taking place with a faction of school aged kids, they go after an innocent as if he was planning a school massacre.

                                      If a child is really planning an attack, they bring guns, they have a plan and it has been overheard by others and discarded as mere talk. Get a grip. An unwise choice was made, not a crime. Pull your over inflated heads out of your over inflated asses educators in the US. A threat is easily spotted and often ignored; Columbine, Virginia Tech, Kentucky, Minnesota (to name a few) missed the real warning signs and kids died. Maybe if you leave the policing and paranoia at home, you might actual notice a real threat.  

                                      Attitudes such as this is exactly why my teenaged child works at home on virtual school. Teachers who accept zero tolerance as a blanket for all children need to ask themselves why they look at a situation like this and over react. That sounds like the real issue. Too lazy to watch for real threats, they make examples of innocent children.

                                      • 1 vote
                                      #2.39 - Wed Oct 14, 2009 9:16 AM EDT
                                      blondeness032

                                      There are too many of these cases where an innocent incident is treated the same as a malevolent one. Common Sense and Ethics need to be taught in school (and obviously to many adults as well.) 

                                      • 2 votes
                                      #2.40 - Wed Oct 14, 2009 10:55 AM EDT
                                      blondeness032

                                      There are too many incidents where an innocent mistake is treated the same as a malevolent incident! We need to be teaching Common Sense and Ethics to children so (hopefully) they don't grow up to act as foolishly as today's adults!

                                      • 1 vote
                                      #2.41 - Wed Oct 14, 2009 11:08 AM EDT
                                      JF from FLA

                                      Sad State,

                                      Yes, this child should not have brought this to school, but the punishment DOES NOT fit the crime.

                                      I acknowledged that 45 days in reform for a first offense (especially for a 6-year old) is too much. But it can't be swept under the rug either. Maybe the policy should be changed. I feel a 5 day suspension and a warning is adequate for a first offense.

                                      The parents could have told this child it was not ok to bring this to school and, because he was 6 years old, may have forgotten and brought it to school.

                                      And if the child was told and he disobeyed or forgot or whatever...does that mean he should be excused because "he was only 6"? What if you told your 6 year old not to play in traffic? Would it be OK if he did because he "forgot"? That is what punishment is for. To help them remember.

                                      Also, next time you try to cut your steak, remember, that knife your using isn't a tool, its a WEAPON!

                                      If I had to kill the steak before cutting it, you would be correct. So are you suggesting we allow knives in schools, because they are only "tools"? Sure, let's allow all schoolchildren to carry knives. That sounds like a great solution. There was just a fatal stabbing at a high school near where I live, and the mother is about to sue the district for not protecting her son. So if the school is too harsh, they are blamed. But as soon as something happens, they are the first ones the parents blame. That is a typical liberal mindset. Push the responsibility on someone else, and blame everybody but yourself when things go wrong.

                                      Rudderfish,

                                      See above. Are you saying that knives should be allowed in schools? There is a difference between knives at home and knives at school. And if the rule says "no knives" then it is NO KNIVES. Why is that so hard to understand?

                                        #2.42 - Wed Oct 14, 2009 4:08 PM EDT
                                        Reply
                                        Robert B.-1389688

                                        The way to attack these stupid problems is to fire all the administrators.  They are unnecessary because we have a policy that doesn't require (or allow) any judgement on their part.  (the proper way to have dealt with this is for the prinicpal to say "that's not a knife", held it until the end of the school day, then tell Zach and his mother not to bring it back.) 

                                        • 33 votes
                                        Reply#3 - Tue Oct 13, 2009 11:01 AM EDT
                                        Ron-1404690

                                        Robert B's commentary is by far the best of all the comments. If an administrator cannot exercize common sense or judgement, then they are not needed. All that was learned by this incident is that our educators are not very bright. I guess that is why our education system is rife with problems. It is a cabal of tattlers instead of teachers. My gut reaction is to fire the teacher who took away the knife - not because she took it away, but because she could not restrain her impulse to tattle. How pitiful!!!

                                        • 4 votes
                                        #3.1 - Tue Oct 13, 2009 1:22 PM EDT
                                        Eileen V-635375

                                        Not to mention the huge salaries these administartors earn....imagine the resources we could aquire at our schools if just one of their 6 figure incomes was cut.....

                                        • 1 vote
                                        #3.2 - Tue Oct 13, 2009 1:31 PM EDT
                                        KayCee-1390629

                                        Very well said Robert!!! Simple as that!! I can bet you this, he will NOW see his tools as weapons instead of a playful set of eating utensils!! They are confusing this little boy and for them to do a 45 day suspension, that is insane!! SO, now he sits at home, and of course he will have his parents to home school him, I'm thinking, but I can bet you this, with all that time at home, he will surely take those "so-called" school administrator's words about his tools being dangerous and create real weapons for sure!!!

                                        • 1 vote
                                        #3.3 - Tue Oct 13, 2009 1:58 PM EDT
                                        tony-268769

                                        Eileen...

                                        The real money is in the benefits, expenses, and severance packages.

                                        We had a male school principal in my state arrested by the state police....inside a highway rest area men's room...fully attired in women's clothing ( pearls and all !!! )...and let's politely say 'having relations' with other gentlemen inside the cubicle.

                                        He was given a $375,000 severance check and left his job...but kept the pearls.

                                        • 2 votes
                                        #3.4 - Tue Oct 13, 2009 2:05 PM EDT
                                        Hollywoods Mom

                                        Ha pearls... lots of men out there want to be women...

                                        • 1 vote
                                        #3.5 - Tue Oct 13, 2009 2:33 PM EDT
                                        tony-268769

                                        Mom...

                                        I think this guy felt that he was a woman...or at least played one on " TV ".

                                        Ahem.

                                        • 1 vote
                                        #3.6 - Tue Oct 13, 2009 3:18 PM EDT
                                        Brian-335423

                                        Bob, you are making WAY too much sense for these idiots to understand. Forget it- it takes half a brain to come up with something that actually works. The PC BS that goes on in this country is just amazing. The posters talking about how pencils can be use to stab are right on. Anything can be a weapon if used correctly, or adapted. Talk to any prison guard, and ask him what he's seen.

                                        • 2 votes
                                        #3.7 - Tue Oct 13, 2009 10:42 PM EDT
                                        Tina-293371

                                        What do you expect from know-nothing bureaucrats? They have no common sense.

                                        If you ask me "zero tolerance" is ridiculous. There are too many extenuating circumstances in life. Idiots!

                                        • 2 votes
                                        #3.8 - Tue Oct 13, 2009 11:40 PM EDT
                                        Catmoves

                                        Robert B.-1389688 has gotten it correctly. Applause, Robert, for clearing the air.

                                        Talk about a tempest in a teapot. I dunno. Do you suppose this could be something to take our attention to an inanity in a never heard of town, never heard of school and consume our energies and spirit in an idiocy of such minimal size?

                                        I guess I have to accept that there are such idiotic people in charge of our schools. Sigh.

                                        • 3 votes
                                        #3.9 - Wed Oct 14, 2009 12:33 AM EDT
                                        ineedmychange

                                        That is called common sense; apparently something this school administrator doesn't have They need the rule book to tell them what to do and they are teaching these children.

                                        Lord have mercy!!!

                                        • 1 vote
                                        #3.10 - Wed Oct 14, 2009 1:55 AM EDT
                                        Reply
                                        SARAHELL

                                        Are you aware of the Eagle Scout, applying for West Point, Honor Roll, etc. who has been suspended from school for 45 days because he had a jackknife in his car?

                                        That's Lansingburgh's school district.

                                          Reply#4 - Tue Oct 13, 2009 11:18 AM EDT
                                          Keith-1329766

                                          I have to laugh at the comment by"Mike in so cal" advocating stricy non-discretionary adherence to the zero tolerance rule because a pocket knife "is more than long enough to kill any adult and child". Then I guess Mike would outlaw pointy pencils in schools too? Dull crayons only.

                                          • 1 vote
                                          Reply#5 - Tue Oct 13, 2009 11:36 AM EDT
                                          Wyveryx

                                          To make a rule or law unbugding and inflexible is pure idiocy. How can we seek justice if we just follow text?

                                          Did the boy do wrong, yes. Did he understand it at the time, No. Is it the responsibility of the parents to have informed him, Yes. Would the child have understood, Probably.

                                          The problem is that by ignoring personality and intent, you take away any chance to enforce the rules resonsibly. This is not about racial discrimination. It's about people taking respsonsibility, being respsonsible for using good judgement.

                                          • 14 votes
                                          Reply#6 - Tue Oct 13, 2009 11:44 AM EDT
                                          MAVERICK-1352238

                                          ...

                                            #6.1 - Tue Oct 13, 2009 12:57 PM EDT
                                            Bob-715311

                                            Unfortunately, some good people don't criminal minds, and they look at the intended purpose of something, other than how it can be used as a weapon.

                                            The people who are responsible for suspending him should be sued and fired for gross stupidity and the inability to survive mentally in public.

                                            It must give them a sense of power to make a criminal out of a 6 year old "A" student. If anything, they should take the "weapon" away, and give it back at the end of the day and tell him not to bring it back.

                                            • 6 votes
                                            #6.2 - Tue Oct 13, 2009 1:04 PM EDT
                                            Un-Common Common Sense

                                            To make a rule or law unbugding and inflexible is pure idiocy. How can we seek justice if we just follow text?

                                            True, but then they take it to the other extreme and let some liberal judges give a pedophile a slap on the wrist for raping a little girl. I believe we've let one too many European Socialist into this country!!

                                            • 5 votes
                                            #6.3 - Tue Oct 13, 2009 1:12 PM EDT
                                            KayCee-1390629

                                            UN-Common - what in the hell does that have to do with who is Liberal or who is not?!! Stick to the subject, its about a little boy being unjustly accused and NOT about your political views!!!

                                            • 1 vote
                                            #6.4 - Tue Oct 13, 2009 2:00 PM EDT
                                            John Toradze

                                            Did the boy do wrong, yes. Did he understand it at the time, No. Is it the responsibility of the parents to have informed him, Yes. Would the child have understood, Probably.

                                            Oh, come on! How did he "do wrong?" He brought his favorite spork to school to eat with. That is not wrong.

                                            What is wrong is the madness that thinks it is "wrong".

                                            • 3 votes
                                            #6.5 - Tue Oct 13, 2009 2:35 PM EDT
                                            tony-268769

                                            I agree, John.

                                            But now he will know to avoid any "assault with a deadly spork" charges in the future.

                                            • 1 vote
                                            #6.6 - Tue Oct 13, 2009 3:21 PM EDT
                                            SpoxLogic

                                            Uncommon, since you want to go there. It is a known fact that laws and rules like this are usually passed by conservatives. A liberal would be thinking about the effect such rules and laws would have on the kiddies. And as such would've come up with a rule similar to what Robert at #3 so succinctly stated.

                                              #6.7 - Tue Oct 13, 2009 4:13 PM EDT
                                              give-me-a-break

                                              Not the same thing, but a girl we know got in trouble and almost suspended for CHEWING GUM, while others around here were talking on cell phones, passing drugs all things that aren't allowed at the school. They said it was her rebelliousness for disobeying the rules when she knew she shouldn't... This incident is just as insane!

                                              • 2 votes
                                              #6.8 - Tue Oct 13, 2009 10:12 PM EDT
                                              Wyveryx

                                              When i said wrong, I meant by the regulations the school board set foward that the boy broke. I am not saying that he intended to do something wrong. Big difference. That's why there has to be flexibility with rules.

                                              I remember back in my highschool days, they were just implementing metal detectors and clear backpacks. I even remember one school I attended had removed the lockers so that students couldn't store anything illegal in them. Mind you this was before Columbine.

                                              It is my belief that the fear for the "What if" is unwarranted. It is out of Fear that people allow such rules and laws to be passed that will eventually restrict us and conform us to a society in which we have no choice but to trust or fear the government. True it may be a leap from schools to government, but not much.

                                              Once people no longer seek justice with their eyes, then and only then will we have true equality.

                                                #6.9 - Wed Oct 14, 2009 3:28 AM EDT
                                                Hoofarted

                                                Jennifer Jankowski, who runs the special education programs at Jennie Smith Elementary in Newark, said schools need to be vigilant about protecting students.

                                                Gotta be vigilant about protecting the other students from little Zach with his deadly spork. Uh huh. You're special too, Jennifer.

                                                  #6.10 - Wed Oct 14, 2009 5:44 AM EDT
                                                  PJ Stuart

                                                  At our local high school, a female student had her car searched as she attended classes. School cops in action. They found a belt with a brass knuckle belt buckle. Zero tolerance kicked in and she was suspended and on her way to expulsion.

                                                  They real story was this young woman was an A student, in ROTC and was planning a life as an officer in our US Navy. She was accepted to the school of her choice and not a single black mark was found in her file.

                                                  Her entire future plans were destroyed. She couldn't finish high school in time for enlistment deadlines and attending classes. Her life long dream that she worked for diligently is over...because of a belt buckle left in her car by someone else.

                                                  Zero tolerance is not even a part of our judicial system. Real criminals have more choices than school kids. She was left at the end of years of hard work with nothing...absolutely NOTHING. They ruined this young woman and stole her future. That should be the crime. I still get sick when I think of how heart broken she was as she watched her future slowly slip away. Twelve years of exemplary behavior ignored. A belt buckle the new 'proof' of her evil intentions. That is insanity. Who knows what her future will become due to these idiots who stripped her of a rightly earned good reputation?

                                                  • 1 vote
                                                  #6.11 - Wed Oct 14, 2009 9:46 AM EDT
                                                  Reply
                                                  Randy Israel Idaho

                                                  As for someone taking a weapon to school. Although it is not considered a weapon, the eating utencil was real, the knife attached to it is real. Consider the utlity knives used on an airplane on 9/11. They are also not labeled as "weapons". That being said, all schools, as far as I know, have a zero tolerance policy in place. This applies to all students, not just a select group of kids. I realize that he is a first grader and I feel that although what he did is wrong, the reaction of the system may also be wrong. I need more information before I can make that determination. The people in the administration who oversee consequences need to take into account who the child is, what is the intent, did the child realize or fully understand the consequences of his/her actions, is the person a problem child, etc., before punishment is administered. He appears to be a very well behaved young man, however, neither myself or anyone else here really knows who these people are, if this interview was rehearsed; which I doubt, any other circumstances surrounding what the conversation was when mom got to the school, etcetera. Too many unanswered questions here.

                                                  Case in point. My child faced suspension for taking a water pistol to school in his back pack. He was in the third grade. I was shocked when I was told this. Its a water pistol for petes sake. Their reason was smple to understand, it represents a weapon. His reason for taking it to school was simple as well. He did not want his brother or sister to play with it, so he hid it in his back pack and "said" he forgot it was there. I doubt this is completely true. That being said, we sat down together, discussed the rules and the policy, consequences for breaking the policy etcetera. When we were done the teacher asked me what we should do with the water pistol. I told them that I agreed he needed to fully understand that what he did was not acceptable and to learn a lesson from this experience. Water pistols are in the list of unacceptable items being brought to school. I told her to throw it in the trash. She did and that was the end of it. My point here is simple. We sat down and acted like responsible adults and instead of creating other problems, blowing this out of proportion, or doing what I deem as excessive consequences for a first time offender, we found a solution that was acceptable to all parties involved. For the record, my son was not suspended.

                                                  • 2 votes
                                                  Reply#7 - Tue Oct 13, 2009 11:45 AM EDT
                                                  Canadaboy

                                                  You Sir are part of the problem. How can you bring up 9/11 when talking about this. The boy is 6.This was nothing but an over reaction by politically correct zealots who should be ashamed of themselves for acting in such a heavyhanded way. Perhaps in future you would like these " horrible " kids thrown in jail to teach them a lesson, let them spend some time with their fellow criminals. The whole situation shows why stupid people should not make rules.

                                                  • 10 votes
                                                  #7.1 - Tue Oct 13, 2009 12:46 PM EDT
                                                  Bob-715311

                                                  Randy,

                                                  I wonder if the teachers are allowed to use knives for lunch, or since a fork can be used as a weapon according to you, do teachers get forks. The teachers, thinking like this should be the ones to worry about.

                                                  • 5 votes
                                                  #7.2 - Tue Oct 13, 2009 1:09 PM EDT
                                                  WLEIT

                                                  Randy, you think just like the morons who made this decision. And, by agreeing to it, you enable them to make more stupid decisions. People should stand up and fight; it's your individual freedom being trampled on by the group-think mob mentality. Get a spine!

                                                    #7.3 - Tue Oct 13, 2009 1:22 PM EDT
                                                    scottdb

                                                    ON NO NOT A WATER GUN?I had to go to the office last year to recover my sons Nerf gun.Really been a lot of people taken out with them.The Moron assistant principal tried giving me some stupid ass speech about GUNS are not allowed in schools.DUH?I started to explain to him the difference in a firearm and a toy but I could tell there was no possibility of me dumbing down the conversation enough for him to comprehend.Why do so many people insist on creating a problem when there is not one?

                                                    • 5 votes
                                                    #7.4 - Tue Oct 13, 2009 1:28 PM EDT
                                                    easydoesit

                                                    For the record, my son was not suspended.

                                                    Yet, with 45 days in reform school hanging over the head of this 6 year old, you are cool with how the system is working? Even tho your child did the same thing and received only a lecture from Dad and the teacher? What am I missing about your stance on this subject?

                                                    Scrolling back.....

                                                    • 3 votes
                                                    #7.5 - Tue Oct 13, 2009 1:40 PM EDT
                                                    MagnoliaSimms

                                                    Randy:

                                                    "We sat down and acted like responsible adults and instead of creating other problems, blowing this out of proportion, or doing what I deem as excessive consequences for a first time offender, we found a solution that was acceptable to all parties involved."

                                                    Your son was given this opportunity to discuss the problem with the administration and come to a resolution, but this family is not being given that option. That's the problem with this zero tolerance policy. Your son and this boy are in very similar situations. Your son brought in his water gun to school for a very innocent reason (to keep his siblings from playing with it), and this boy brought in his Swiss Army knife for an innocent reason (to eat his lunch with the utensils).

                                                    So why are you supporting the suspension of this child, when your child was held to a different standard? He should be given the same opportunity you and your child was given. He's an A student with no previous issues, and he even has teachers backing him, saying he's a boy with good character.

                                                    But because of the zero tolerance policy, it doesn't matter what kind of kid he is, and there's no room for talking it out with administration.

                                                    • 2 votes
                                                    #7.6 - Tue Oct 13, 2009 2:02 PM EDT
                                                    Stevie McMichael

                                                    Scott, I'll do you one better. One of the kids in my son's class had been given one of those little super-soaker KEYCHAINS for Christmas, and got suspended for bringing it to school on his backpack because it 'resembled a weapon'. What. The. Actual. F***. The thing was about three inches long, plastic, and didn't even actually hold water. His parents quite rightly blew their lids at that one, though I don't know how it actually turned out in the end. At least the district didn't try to send him to reform school over it, though. XD

                                                    • 2 votes
                                                    #7.7 - Tue Oct 13, 2009 2:03 PM EDT
                                                    scottdb

                                                    Stevie the idea behind banning anything "resembling" a weapon is getting the young minds open to guns kill people and they are all bad.Getting them used to a world without them,if only pretend now will make them less likely to fight for 2nd amendment rights when they are adults.Teaching them that the world has bad people in it who harm others by choice is discrimination against people living in penal institutions and assuming they are all guilty is profiling.Ok maybe I am sounding a little ridiculous here but I am fighting fire with fire.However I don't think my ideas are too far off the mark either.

                                                    • 2 votes
                                                    #7.8 - Tue Oct 13, 2009 3:12 PM EDT
                                                    MagnoliaSimms

                                                    scottb:

                                                    "Stevie the idea behind banning anything "resembling" a weapon is getting the young minds open to guns kill people and they are all bad."

                                                    Yet violent video games and movies are choice entertainment for teenagers. I think confiscating a super soaker keychain (which I also had when I was in middle school, mine was green and yellow, and it was never a problem then) is over the top and not sending that message at all. I grew up playing with cap guns and super soakers, and I play violent video games, yet I have a healthy respect for guns and I certainly know they're not toys. But I attribute that more to my upbringing and my parents, rather than what I was exposed to and what I wasn't.

                                                    I absolutely think weapons, knives, etc, should be banned from schools. But the other stuff is a bit ridiculous.

                                                    I think it just sends a mixed message to young people. I understand the administration is just doing its job by enforcing these rules, but I think that some of the rules don't fit the circumstances.

                                                      #7.9 - Tue Oct 13, 2009 3:24 PM EDT
                                                      Stevie McMichael

                                                      Scott--

                                                      No, I don't think you're very far off the mark at all. And I think taking the emphasis off the person using the weapon and placing it on the weapon itself is going to backfire--both in the negative cases, like someone shooting someone else, and in cases like this, where the kid clearly didn't realize his little tool could be considered a 'weapon'. An older child probably would have realized that, but this little boy is six years old and is still too innocent to think like that.

                                                      Personally I think "zero-tolerance" policies are quite stupid, because A.) they don't really deter anything, B.) they create situations like this, where common sense seems to have gone on vacation, and C.) they're ridiculously unrealistic. The world is not a black and white place, and trying to force it to abide by black and white rules inevitably creates...well, problems like this. There needs to be at least a little leeway to allow any given situation to be assessed as an individual situation, not something to simply be measured by a metaphorical yardstick and nothing more.

                                                        #7.10 - Tue Oct 13, 2009 3:50 PM EDT
                                                        scottdb

                                                        Magnolia I suppose you could say video games account a certain percentage of kids commiting violent crimes.More than likely it all factors in.While these games have come under attack less action has been taken because they are a product of the entertainment industry.I dont know what your age group is but when things went wrong in my generation Bugs Bunny,Yosemite Sam,Tom and Jerry and the like took the blame.With more channels than I ever imagined on today my son is exposed to Sponge Bob,The Simpsons,Pokemon and so on.I bought every cartoon VHS and DVD I could find from my child hood to get his mind right.I agree school is no place for weapons period but like I stated concerning this 6 year old boy he didn't take it as a "weapon"but rather a cool scout utensil.One thing I was taught early on about guns is more people are killed with empty guns than loaded ones,meaning dont assume anything about them.Respect them and always practice safety.You might say I learned a zero tolerance policy about gun handling safety.Too many times today though no one takes self responsibility.When they screw up theres someone or something else to blame for it.

                                                          #7.11 - Tue Oct 13, 2009 4:02 PM EDT
                                                          Randy Israel Idaho

                                                          My response to all who commented on what I said is simply thank you. We are all entitled to our opinions. I admit that comparing the actions of adults to actions of children is not a fair comparison. Some people understood what I said some did not. It's sad that so many can read but do not comprehend what they are reading. So, to clarify what I said and aid those who do not understand what they are reading I will explain. I was not comparing people, I was comparing a utility tool to a utility knife, and neither are considered "weapons", not one event to another. My choice of events should have been better thought out. I apologize for that. I did not say I agree with how the system is working or with the outcome thus far, I said other factors which are unknown could be at play here. For the sake of argument, we only have one side of the story. My addition of what happened to my family/son was to indicate that I have been in a similar situation and with a little common sense applied, able to come up with solution. I am thankful there were people to speak with and options made available to resolve my situation. Had the same options been applied in Zacharys case, we never would have heard about it and it would have been over. I carried a knife to school when I was a kid. I even had a shotgun behind the seat during pheasant season. I grew up in a farming community and that world is way different than the one we live in today. For the people who thumb their noses at the rules and think they do not apply to them I say bully on you. You are probably the same type people who would be the first to file a lawsuit if nothing had been done and your child was injured because someone ignored a policy put in place for a reason. Case in point. You know that little package in some products meant to absorb moisture and says "Do Not Eat" on it...someone ate one and sued the company because they were not told it wasn't edible. What a sad world we live in because of these idiots. Unfortunately steps need to be taken to help protect the masses no matter how stupid they seem.

                                                            #7.12 - Tue Oct 13, 2009 8:19 PM EDT
                                                            Reply
                                                            John-370712

                                                            People come down hard on "the administrators" in this story. However, when bad things do occur, communties come down with the 10-ton anvil on educators and administrators who were "too lenient" about using their judgement for 99.99% of the cases that were resolved without incident, and use those as evidence for the administrators' general bad judgement. I wager that many of the most vocal critics in this case would be equally vehement about the stupidity of administrators following their own best judgement if something bad did occur. Administrators, just like the rest of us, have families to feed. From that perspective, better to go overboard on the rules than risk getting fired or sued by applying best judgement. Administrators, like most professionals these days, are often just doing the wise thing in this litigation-driven society of covering their asses from here to 10-buck-2 against lawyers and angry parents. Our legal system has effectively outlawed discretionary judgement on the part of educators, doctors, and other professionals. Those who do use judgment rather than slavishly following rules have got to have some courage to work on conviction rather than primarily following rules to preserve their job. And they're often eventually ejected by their communities, leaving the type of administrator that everyone is complaining about here. Good people using their judgement sometimes make mistakes. Just like good generals make mistakes in battles, but wise commanders make sure everyone learns from the mistakes and then allows the generals to soldier on to eventual victories. Unfortunately, that wisdom is getting eliminated by a culture that doesn't permit any latitude for personal judgment. So ease up on these administrators--quit the baloney about firing probably otherwise generally people with their own families and problems, let them know they made a mistake and that from here on out it is OKAY if they start using some judgement, and then back them up and work with them to solve the problems that eventually do occur instead of being so quick to call your bleeping lawyer.

                                                            • 2 votes
                                                            Reply#8 - Tue Oct 13, 2009 12:16 PM EDT
                                                            Missy-1403606

                                                            Wow, John, you took the words right out of my mouth!! As an educator myself, I am required to report anything suspicious, even if I know that the child meant no harm or that it was meaningless. It is mostly to cover my own butt. My parents often laugh at the stories I tell them because they did things that most children today would be expelled for and given a permanent record. However, I also work in a very rough school, and the only saving grace is that the principal has zero tolerance for anything. The children walk the line, and it seems that they feel happy and safe...even though they bitch and moan about it constantly. The other middle school across town does not enforce rules very well, and they have constant problems and a high turnover rate for teachers. Both schools have the same demographic of students, but have a very different environment. Same goes with the two high schools that these students attend after middle school. As a teacher, I appreciate the zero-tolerance rule, but as a parent (even though I do not have children yet myself) I may feel different. I still feel that problems should be dealt with on a case by case basis, but administrators have their hands tied. I would never in a million years want to take on the incredibly difficult and thankless job of an administrator!!

                                                              #8.1 - Tue Oct 13, 2009 12:56 PM EDT
                                                              Cork Smith

                                                              It's "Timbuktu" a city in the West African Nation of Mali. In the 19th century it was very remote. Hence the adage: " from here to Timbuktu"

                                                              • 1 vote
                                                              #8.2 - Tue Oct 13, 2009 12:59 PM EDT
                                                              John-370712

                                                              Thank you, Professor. I knew how to spell Timbuktu, I was well aware of the common usage, that Timbuktu is in Mali, was a center for Islam in the 15th/16th centuries, has three great mosques, and was made rich during the reign of Mansa Musa. Should I recite anything more? Three years in the Peace Corps, and more significantly, subsequent evenings laboring with two daughters' 7th grade geography assignments didn't go entirely to waste. I do plead guilty for literary liberties exercised purely on whimsical deviancy while expounding on a serious subject, either that or merely a moment of temporary insanity, both of which my wife would observe are far too common in my case. Good day to you. :-)

                                                              • 2 votes
                                                              #8.3 - Tue Oct 13, 2009 1:32 PM EDT
                                                              Eileen V-635375

                                                              Yes, we come down on administrators when they 'didn't see it coming'

                                                              .....look we know there are REAL problems with real problem kids, not to mention some lousey teachers, (and one pedophile maintanence man in a nearby dist. here)....but because of red tape, teacher's unions, and fair job laws we can't really solve, or do anything about....so come down and focus on things that really aren't real problems.....so warped, so frustrating.....

                                                              If I had the time, and the patience I would strongly consider homeschooling.....and we wonder why kids don't respect authority?

                                                              I long for the pre-Columbine, pre-9/11 world, when things were simpler.....and I have to say that if someone really wanted to do another harm, as in Columbine, not much would stop them.....kids can make bombs, stab another with a pen, etc. etc......this is sooo petty.

                                                                #8.4 - Tue Oct 13, 2009 1:42 PM EDT
                                                                On My Soapbox

                                                                John... I got the "literary liberty" you took with Timbuktu... quite amusing, actually...

                                                                I do agree with your stance on telling people to ease up on the administrators, however, I disagree with the strict "zero-tolerance" policies. It is actually the people calling for the administrator's/teacher's heads to roll that left us with this type of policy. My wife is a teacher, and she can't do any real discipline to the child (detentions, etc) without calling the parents first. As she works at a... let's say... "less-than-stellar school", in an "economically-depressed" neighborhood, calling the parents (or whomever might actually be around...) does absolutely nothing most of the time. We need to allow school officials to use the sense that they were given, do their jobs, and stop screaming about firing them all the time. It seems like a damned if you do, damned if you don't approach... yelled at for following the rules to a tee, or yelled at for making a judgment call that someone doesn't agree with...

                                                                I do not think the punishment fits the crime in this case...

                                                                Okay... I'm done... someone else can have the soapbox now...

                                                                Common sense is not so common anymore...

                                                                • 1 vote
                                                                #8.5 - Tue Oct 13, 2009 2:34 PM EDT
                                                                John Toradze

                                                                We don't come down on administrators for not seeing Columbine coming. They decide "We must do something."

                                                                So, they confiscate sporks, swiss army knives and suspend kids for having anything remotely resembling a weapon. They do this to kids as young as 6 years old, when the kids who shoot to kill are teenagers.

                                                                Meanwhile, kids who want to shoot up the school just get their weapons and bring them to school on the day they want to start shooting knowing nobody there knows how to fight back with so much as a penknife.

                                                                Insanity.

                                                                  #8.6 - Tue Oct 13, 2009 2:41 PM EDT
                                                                  PublicSpeech

                                                                  John 370712, "Even in your temporary moments of insanity..." you do not make a good liar. (period.)

                                                                    #8.7 - Tue Oct 13, 2009 9:49 PM EDT
                                                                    Reply
                                                                    torgo2009Deleted
                                                                    Cary Gordon

                                                                    Zero tolerance policies are nonsense. They merely provide cover for school districts to avoid having to exercise - GASP! - judgment. In most cases, they are implemented so that school board members and administrators can somehow dodge controversy. Does it do that? Of course not. If anything, they create controversy where none need exist. Just take a look at the comments here.

                                                                      Reply#10 - Tue Oct 13, 2009 12:37 PM EDT
                                                                      Dan-623933

                                                                      Public School Systems at their finest. No wonder there's a rush to private schools.

                                                                      We truly are living in the age of the foam rubber lawn mower!!!

                                                                      Dan

                                                                      • 7 votes
                                                                      Reply#11 - Tue Oct 13, 2009 12:38 PM EDT
                                                                      Fred G. from N.C.

                                                                      It "represents" a real lawn mower so therefore it should be banned!!!

                                                                      • 4 votes
                                                                      #11.1 - Tue Oct 13, 2009 12:47 PM EDT
                                                                      Ricky-1307997

                                                                      It's a wonder how so many of us survived our childhood with these potential dangers .

                                                                      • 4 votes
                                                                      #11.2 - Tue Oct 13, 2009 12:54 PM EDT
                                                                      Rudderfish-1370204

                                                                      Ricky,

                                                                      Actually we didn't survive. We are all dead from the "Three Stooges poke to the eye". Nyuk nyuk nyuk!

                                                                        #11.3 - Tue Oct 13, 2009 10:42 PM EDT
                                                                        Reply
                                                                        WychDoctor George

                                                                        More of the same old stuff - when we take everything away from people/children/communities and put everything in the control of bureaucrats, then nothing bad can possibly happen. Utopia! Of course, nothing good can happen there, either. Students should not be allowed to think - they should all be nice little uniform, uniformed cogs in the great machine of state. Must think right, play right, live right - zero tolerance for individuality.

                                                                        When I was in school, EVERY boy had a pocket knife - for whittling, cutting grape vines for swinging, scarifying desks....but unthinkable that it would be used against someone. Don't punish the children, punish the voilence mongers - Hollywood and their slasher movies, rap stars and their gang/thug preaching, street gangs that make children into criminals. How about a zero tolerance on all of them?

                                                                        And at the same time, how about a Duante Stallworth or OJ Simpson- how much time did he get in jail? Twenty seven days? Zero tolerance for drunken killers!

                                                                        • 8 votes
                                                                        Reply#12 - Tue Oct 13, 2009 12:41 PM EDT
                                                                        Reply
                                                                        torgo2009Deleted
                                                                        alur

                                                                        The school is run by educated idiots not to mention an equally stupid superintendant. Remember, these idiots with no practical judgement are teaching our kids.

                                                                        A six-year-old is still in Piaget's classification where reality and fantasy a blurred. It seems the educators have the same problem.

                                                                        • 6 votes
                                                                        Reply#14 - Tue Oct 13, 2009 12:42 PM EDT
                                                                        paul-662506

                                                                        well, as soon as we as a nation decide that teaching and carinig for our children is worth a living wage, maybe things will get better.

                                                                        • 2 votes
                                                                        #14.1 - Tue Oct 13, 2009 12:50 PM EDT
                                                                        torgo2009Deleted
                                                                        alur

                                                                        The teachers in that district average way above the $37,000 of the average wage in the U.S. Teachers are well paid with health insurance, at least 8 weeks of vacation, and every national holiday is paid time off. I bet they are making in excess of $50,000 a year. Most do a great job for the money, but they are not starving and a few, like the ones in this article, are educated idiots.

                                                                        The Piaget reference is to point out one of education's foremost gurus. An elementary teacher should be well-versed in the pre-operational stage in which children are not normally logical thinkers.

                                                                          #14.3 - Tue Oct 13, 2009 2:54 PM EDT
                                                                          alur

                                                                          Torgo, good one. As an end-game MMORPGamer, I am well-versed in blurring reality with fantasy. In MMORGP there is no politics and there is no religion. It's a truly utopian environment.

                                                                            #14.4 - Tue Oct 13, 2009 3:02 PM EDT
                                                                            Reply
                                                                            Jeania

                                                                            Another example of Libs gone wild.

                                                                            • 9 votes
                                                                            Reply#15 - Tue Oct 13, 2009 12:42 PM EDT
                                                                            Robert-1112210

                                                                            If anything, it sounds like a conservative "tough on crime" approach.

                                                                            • 4 votes
                                                                            #15.1 - Tue Oct 13, 2009 1:04 PM EDT
                                                                            Tommy Subway

                                                                            nah if it were a conservative thing they'd have kids bringing guns to school to use as hole punchers. Joking aside, this kid had no intent to hurt anyone. I'm not sure why these people aren't allowed to judge intent. The worst that should have happened was they take it from him and make his parents pick it up. It is only a weapon if you use it as one. Zero tolerance is really just a brainless way to apply the same rules to everyone and sometimes it works and other times it hurts the people it is trying to protect.

                                                                            • 1 vote
                                                                            #15.2 - Tue Oct 13, 2009 1:32 PM EDT
                                                                            Right...

                                                                            Robert is probably right. We're likely talking about people with the same mindset as those that brought us "no more than 3oz of fluid through airport security". Those weren't liberals. :)

                                                                              #15.3 - Tue Oct 13, 2009 2:04 PM EDT
                                                                              John Toradze

                                                                              However, there was a specific reason for that no more tha 3 oz of fluid. An Al Qaeda plot was uncovered in which the plotters were going to bring down aircraft with fluid explosive bombs.

                                                                              Ever heard of nitroglycerin? A good size bottle makes a good hand grenade.

                                                                              But kids are not trying to murder each other with sporks, nor with penknives. They do it with guns that they get at home.

                                                                                #15.4 - Tue Oct 13, 2009 2:49 PM EDT
                                                                                Reply
                                                                                Austin H

                                                                                he wanted to kill this beautiful creature i think

                                                                                  Reply#16 - Tue Oct 13, 2009 12:42 PM EDT
                                                                                  LameStory

                                                                                  My son was a scout all the way through....tigers to Eagle and he had the same tool BUT we kept it securely put away when he wasn't on an outing.  Why was this child allowed to have it all the time? 

                                                                                  It's too bad that he is now in trouble for his parents' negligence.

                                                                                  • 4 votes
                                                                                  Reply#17 - Tue Oct 13, 2009 12:42 PM EDT
                                                                                  cat-672389

                                                                                  I agree!!!

                                                                                  • 1 vote
                                                                                  #17.1 - Tue Oct 13, 2009 3:57 PM EDT
                                                                                  Sybie54

                                                                                  I agree totally!

                                                                                  And to put him on the Today show? Come on! Wonder when the movie will come out. Seemed to me while watching, that he had been coached a bit by his parents too.

                                                                                  Though parents should have explained that it was only for scouts, there are parents that just don't seem to have a clue.

                                                                                  • 1 vote
                                                                                  #17.2 - Tue Oct 13, 2009 10:08 PM EDT
                                                                                  Reply
                                                                                  Roger-767190

                                                                                  Randy that's the answer.

                                                                                    Reply#18 - Tue Oct 13, 2009 12:43 PM EDT
                                                                                    Gordon Levy

                                                                                    At Kern Avenue Junior High School in East Los Angeles, the gym coaches regularly made every boy in the class empty their pockets, and the coaches "appropriated" knives and anything that could be called a weapon. That was in l946! Kern was the toughest school in the United States. We had a race riot the day before I graduated -- Whites vs Mexicans. But nobody -- repeat, nobody -- was ever expelled from the school as a result of these searches by the gym coaches. How dare the school district where that six year old boy used his Swiss Jackknife to eat with suspend him and expose him to reform school for 45 days. Nitwits! I own the exact same Swiss jackknife, and wouldn't be without it. And I became a Deputy District Attorney for the County of Los Angeles, and retired after 35 years.

                                                                                    • 5 votes
                                                                                    Reply#19 - Tue Oct 13, 2009 12:44 PM EDT
                                                                                    Fred G. from N.C.

                                                                                    As I said the trouble with zero tolerance policies is the zero tolerance for common sense. While the knife should have been taken and turned over to his parents to send a first grader to reform school is nonsense (unless he's an aspiring gang banger). Save the reform school for children who deserve to be there,not a kid who made an innocent mistake.

                                                                                    • 6 votes
                                                                                    #19.1 - Tue Oct 13, 2009 12:52 PM EDT
                                                                                    Nickolas-417058

                                                                                    Fred, is it really you? : ) i had missed your always valid comments-)

                                                                                      #19.2 - Tue Oct 13, 2009 1:16 PM EDT
                                                                                      ineedmychange

                                                                                      What a society we have. We expell a kid from school for a boy scout utensil and when they turn 20 we shove a rifle in their hands so they can kill people in far away places What kind of screwed up children are we raising; on the one hand we brain wash them weaponry is dangerous and should never be touched and then when they become adults they may be in life threatening situations and now we have to reprogram them to believe it's okay to use a weapon. Does that make sense.

                                                                                        #19.3 - Wed Oct 14, 2009 2:03 AM EDT
                                                                                        Reply
                                                                                        erin-348650

                                                                                        what a stupid world we live in. Absolutely stupid moronic. I hate public schools. Absolute waste of money and the reason why are socialist programs don't work.

                                                                                        • 4 votes
                                                                                        Reply#20 - Tue Oct 13, 2009 12:44 PM EDT
                                                                                        The Spy

                                                                                        This is another case of "The rules should apply to everyone except my little angel" syndrome where Mommy and Daddy bitch about how badly the schools enforce the rules until their uncontrollable little brat breaks them and they become unglued excuse gushing @!$%#s. The kid isn't at fault here but in the end he'll pay the price because Mom and Dad has just taught him that if you complain loud enough, You can get away with a crime....

                                                                                        • 2 votes
                                                                                        Reply#21 - Tue Oct 13, 2009 12:44 PM EDT
                                                                                        Fred G. from N.C.

                                                                                        I think the desire to use a Swiss Army knife to eat lunch with is hardly a gateway to a life of crime. He'll be shown the world of crime up close and personal if they send him to reform school. As I said at some point common sense needs to come into play, and from what I read there seems to be no danger of that!

                                                                                        • 4 votes
                                                                                        #21.1 - Tue Oct 13, 2009 12:57 PM EDT
                                                                                        matthewsmommy35

                                                                                        This is another case of an idiot speaking!!!!!!!!!!!

                                                                                        • 1 vote
                                                                                        #21.2 - Tue Oct 13, 2009 1:06 PM EDT
                                                                                        The Spy

                                                                                        The rules were put in place because somebody's innocent little angel decided to carry an assault rifle to school instead of a lunch box. What part of "Zero Tolerance" are you not getting? Common sense is where parents take resposibility for their mistakes in raising their children and correct those mistakes instead of whining about their rugrat not having an exemption to the rules....

                                                                                        • 4 votes
                                                                                        #21.3 - Tue Oct 13, 2009 1:08 PM EDT
                                                                                        Nora79

                                                                                        I completely agree with you. The kid said that he didn't think about what would happen, but isn't that what us parents have to do? The school should not bend over for these people. In regards to Fred's comment, I too agree that this is hardly a gateway to crime, but not teaching him responsability for his actions is.

                                                                                        • 2 votes
                                                                                        #21.4 - Tue Oct 13, 2009 1:12 PM EDT
                                                                                        meg-408863

                                                                                        your comment is just ridiculous......complain loud enough jeez........this boy is six. the public school system is broke. period. anti bullying-anti-drugs-anti this and anti that. the school should of just called mom to come and get the fork, told him not to bring it again and forget about it. our school this year can't even say "christmas break" it has to use "winter break" instead because it offended one mother. these school officials should grow a set of balls

                                                                                        • 2 votes
                                                                                        #21.5 - Tue Oct 13, 2009 1:15 PM EDT
                                                                                        The Spy

                                                                                        The Officials showed they had a big pair when they enforced the rules instead of bowing down to a whiner like you seem to be. The problem is discipline or the lack thereof. Parents today expect the schools to raise their kids and when parents like this kids end up looking like the breeders of a potential serial killer, They blame the schools for not doing the job they were supposed to do in the first place. And what the hell does Christmas/Winter break have to do with anything connected to this story?

                                                                                        • 1 vote
                                                                                        #21.6 - Tue Oct 13, 2009 1:47 PM EDT
                                                                                        John Toradze

                                                                                        The rules were put in place because somebody's innocent little angel [teenagers taking SSRIs for depression] decided to carry an assault rifle to school instead of a lunch box.

                                                                                        Ok. And by what bizarrely twisted logic does that mean that we should confiscate penknives and sporks from six year olds.

                                                                                        Note that the massacres still keep happening. The kids on SSRIs still shoot up their schools.

                                                                                        • 2 votes
                                                                                        #21.7 - Tue Oct 13, 2009 2:53 PM EDT
                                                                                        Fred G. from N.C.

                                                                                        I laid it out in my first post. The kid broke the rules,check. The knife should be taken and his parents notified,check. But other than possibly keeping him at the Principal's office and sending him home that day, that should be the end of it. They let him go to class!!! Where's the common sense? If a student has genuinely committed an act worthy of 45 days in reform school do you think you should just let him continue on to class? The policy needs to be reviewed and allow the Principal to dictate punishment! Instead a policy that is intended to avoid the stupidity of racial arguments over genuine offenses has backfired and made an example out of a good kid!!!

                                                                                          #21.8 - Tue Oct 13, 2009 2:56 PM EDT
                                                                                          tom343

                                                                                          A big problem with zero tolerance situations is that the punishment is often so out of step with the offense that the enforcers use discretion even when not allowed to and let some violators jump slick. Another issue is when the offense runs counter to what the parents want the kid to do; e.g., if someone picks on you retaliate rather than rat the bully out. Imagine for example if the fine for speeding 5 miles over was $150 and the fine for speeding 30 miles over was also $150.

                                                                                            #21.9 - Tue Oct 13, 2009 4:15 PM EDT
                                                                                            tony-306344

                                                                                            Punishment should stand. The parents should read the student handbook instead of "thinking" they had the perfect child. He's a criminal in the making.

                                                                                              #21.10 - Tue Oct 13, 2009 11:38 PM EDT
                                                                                              ineedmychange

                                                                                              Oh my a crime committed by what a 6 year old; call in CSI or NSI or one of those other tv shows to investigate and get to the bottom of this crime.

                                                                                              • 1 vote
                                                                                              #21.11 - Wed Oct 14, 2009 2:05 AM EDT
                                                                                              ecto

                                                                                              The rules were put in place because somebody's innocent little angel decided to carry an assault rifle to school instead of a lunch box. What part of "Zero Tolerance" are you not getting?

                                                                                              What part of zero tolerance will stop a kid from bringing a gun to school? at the point a gun is brought to school its too late. "your suspended Mr." "bang" no I'm not" "bang bang bang pow", OMG he's got a gun and he isn't wearing a trench coat, what do we do? if he only had a trench coat we could have stopped him" "bang bang", we have zero tolerance buddy, you better..." "bang bang"

                                                                                              • 1 vote
                                                                                              #21.12 - Wed Oct 14, 2009 2:33 AM EDT
                                                                                              Reply
                                                                                              Mr. Rogers-1389717

                                                                                              45 days in reform school? That will surely teach this miscreant a good lesson. Hopefully he'll pick up some tricks and techniques while in reform school and upon his return use them on the teachers and administrators perpetrating this farce.

                                                                                              • 1 vote
                                                                                              Reply#22 - Tue Oct 13, 2009 12:45 PM EDT
                                                                                              Tony-934782

                                                                                              I attended the Bunker Acedemy (as in "Archie Bunker"). I beleive we should hand out knives to ALL the kid's in school, and teach them how to use them. That way, the next time some freak walks in and try's something nasty, the kid's will be empowered to do something besides hide under their desks where they are sure to die. I love the vision of a physchotic coward running for his/her life as 50 screaming 2nd graders are chasing him with camping knives drawn. Now that gives me warm fuzzies.

                                                                                              My kids have thier own knives, and they know how to use them. They'd NEVER be phsychotic murderers, they'll never use them to harm anyone, ever, unless they're backed into a corner that is.

                                                                                              • 6 votes
                                                                                              Reply#23 - Tue Oct 13, 2009 12:46 PM EDT
                                                                                              msfruhauf

                                                                                              No one in the world can speak for another person or declare what they will or will not do in their life. Every individual is an individual with their own brain. I'm sure you think your kids are decent and well educated, and that very well may be the case, but you really can't ever say what someone else is or isn't capable of, even if its your own kids.

                                                                                              • 2 votes
                                                                                              #23.1 - Tue Oct 13, 2009 12:48 PM EDT
                                                                                              RangerGus

                                                                                              msfruhauf ... get a life .. you totally missed Tony's point!

                                                                                              • 6 votes
                                                                                              #23.2 - Tue Oct 13, 2009 1:00 PM EDT
                                                                                              msfruhauf

                                                                                              Yeah I missed the point, meanwhile the parents of the Columbine killers never had any idea there was anything wrong with their sons >_> please

                                                                                                #23.3 - Tue Oct 13, 2009 1:27 PM EDT
                                                                                                RangerGus

                                                                                                msfruhauf .. when you mentioned Columbine above in 18.3 .. (for a second) I thought you 'got it' .. but I was wrong. Tony's point is that if all kids carried knives and teachers carried guns and the kids and the teachers know how to use them ... they might be able to stop the next Columbine before the next Kleeburg and buddy turn it into a slaughter.

                                                                                                • 1 vote
                                                                                                #23.4 - Tue Oct 13, 2009 1:43 PM EDT
                                                                                                John Toradze

                                                                                                Well, anyone with military experience knows that a spork or penknife isn't going to win against an assault rifle unless the guy with the rifle is an idiot.

                                                                                                But I agree that penknives and other such stuff should be allowed in schools. They make no difference at all one way or another except to teach the kids that they shouldn't even try to defend themselves with a sharp object.

                                                                                                  #23.5 - Tue Oct 13, 2009 2:57 PM EDT
                                                                                                  tom343

                                                                                                  In another time and another world, in high school, we used to throw metal drawing compasses at one another. Ouch! No permanent harm done. Our lives were not a plethora of "worst case scenarios" and "what-ifs"!

                                                                                                    #23.6 - Tue Oct 13, 2009 4:18 PM EDT
                                                                                                    Reply
                                                                                                    msfruhauf

                                                                                                    Did the kid get his favorite camping untensil back?

                                                                                                    • 1 vote
                                                                                                    Reply#24 - Tue Oct 13, 2009 12:46 PM EDT
                                                                                                    Daniel-521176

                                                                                                    msfruhau...probably the favorite camping utensil will be used as evidence at the court proceedings. And probably many American people will support that this 6 year old be given a lifetime sentence.  I just cannot believe what America is turning into, while other countries are laughing. No wonder we have many institutions totally mismanaged or bankrupt.

                                                                                                    • 1 vote
                                                                                                    #24.1 - Tue Oct 13, 2009 1:07 PM EDT
                                                                                                    Reply
                                                                                                    gus-724628

                                                                                                    I think this is typical of the results when liberals make decisions for others. This will result in more home school students.

                                                                                                    • 5 votes
                                                                                                    Reply#25 - Tue Oct 13, 2009 12:46 PM EDT
                                                                                                    paul-662506

                                                                                                    interesting how this is all someone ELSE's fault. As soon as we as a nation (that's means YOU) decide teaching and caring for our children is worth a decent wage, this will all change. This isn't liberals causing this. This is every parent who whines about how much the school district costs.

                                                                                                    • 1 vote
                                                                                                    #25.1 - Tue Oct 13, 2009 12:53 PM EDT
                                                                                                    Fred G. from N.C.

                                                                                                    The problem is too much money goes to "educators" who don't set foot in a class room. Get rid of some empty suit "administrators" (dresses? pantsuits?) downtown or at the State Capitol and we'll talk about adding teachers!!I always hear about student teacher ratios but rarely hear about administrator teacher ratios.

                                                                                                      #25.2 - Tue Oct 13, 2009 1:03 PM EDT
                                                                                                      Ian Blokesworth

                                                                                                      paul-662506 wrote " This isn't liberals causing this"
                                                                                                      Yes, the general emasculation of boys is influenced by gender (not equity) feminist liberal teachers that have decided that normal boy behavior is incorrect. If they do not act like girls, then they are socially maladjusted. Socially liberal policies suppress boy behavior with punishment, medication and banishment. If we could finally accept that boys and girls indeed are different due to genetically-determined, sex-specific behavior, then we wouldn't have such restrictive policies on traditional boyhood behavior such as bringing a pocket knife to school.

                                                                                                      • 1 vote
                                                                                                      #25.3 - Tue Oct 13, 2009 3:11 PM EDT
                                                                                                      tom343

                                                                                                      If only the kids could read, write (cursive!) , do sums and knew who U. S. Grant was and where Sunda Strait is and what happened at Valley Forge...

                                                                                                      One facet of the liberal agenda is to do away with home schooling and private (religious) schools.

                                                                                                      • 1 vote
                                                                                                      #25.4 - Tue Oct 13, 2009 4:22 PM EDT
                                                                                                      fedupwithliberals

                                                                                                      As soon as we as a nation (that's means YOU) decide teaching and caring for our children is worth a decent wage, this will all change.

                                                                                                      Because $45K a year for roughly 9 months' work isn't enough? Trust me, as someone who is studying to be a teacher, and has many friends who already are, it's not a bad gig. BTW, teacher salaries have absolutely nothing to do with this zero tolerance policy. If teachers were paid six figures, and a six-year-old was sent to reform school for bringing a multi-tool to school, we would still be dumbfounded.

                                                                                                      This isn't liberals causing this. This is every parent who whines about how much the school district costs.

                                                                                                      I'm not hearing anyone complain about how much our schools cost, I'm hearing how administrators set unrealistic rules that leave no room for logic or rational thought.

                                                                                                      • 1 vote
                                                                                                      #25.5 - Tue Oct 13, 2009 4:26 PM EDT
                                                                                                      Reply
                                                                                                      Teri-1403233

                                                                                                      Thia happened to my son in 6th grade. His Poppy gave him a swiss army everything keychain. He brought it to school thinking it was no big deal. Showed one of the kids the nail clippers so he could use them and the teacher snapped them up. He has Aspergers, was seeing a psych for those issues, it was a gift and no big deal but I had to fight the school board for him. They expelled him and no home schooling or reform school was offered, even with a letter from the psych. and his dr. it was still a fight. We won, he's happy, a wonderful 9th grader this year, an animal lover, and would never even hurt a bettle much less a person. So tell me what can a kid really do with a tiny keychain knife anyway. This day and age, especially with the men down south you see pocket knives everywhere. The men flick them out for hunting, fishing, or whatever. So why are we acting crazy when these are good children?

                                                                                                        Reply#26 - Tue Oct 13, 2009 12:46 PM EDT
                                                                                                        prone2xs

                                                                                                        And everyone wonders why our public school system SUCKS! Anytime teachers and administrators become nothing more than mindless bureaucrats following rules without interpretation, you know your in big trouble. The business world is looking for innovators while our public school system is hell bent on pumping out uniform clones and maintaining the Status Que. Thank God there are some good universities out there to undo the damage.

                                                                                                        • 3 votes
                                                                                                        Reply#27 - Tue Oct 13, 2009 12:47 PM EDT
                                                                                                        paul-662506

                                                                                                        interesting how this is all someone ELSE's fault. As soon as we as a nation (that's means YOU) decide teaching and caring for our children is worth a decent wage, this will all change. This isn't liberals causing this. This is every parent who whines about how much the school district costs

                                                                                                        • 1 vote
                                                                                                        #27.1 - Tue Oct 13, 2009 12:55 PM EDT
                                                                                                        tom343

                                                                                                        Anyone that got their degree in the Viet Nam era knows why. Education degrees got you out of the draft, thus the pink professors wouldn't fail any guy. These leftist rationalizers run the schools today.

                                                                                                        • 1 vote
                                                                                                        #27.2 - Tue Oct 13, 2009 4:25 PM EDT
                                                                                                        blondeness032

                                                                                                        There are too many incidents where an innocent mistake is treated the same as a malevolent incident! We need to be teaching Common Sense and Ethics to children so (hopefully) they don't grow up to act as foolishly as today's adults!

                                                                                                          #27.3 - Wed Oct 14, 2009 11:09 AM EDT
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