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New malpractice idea in health care debate

Tue Oct 20, 2009 4:42 PM EDT
politics, us, health-care, barack-obama, malpractice, medical-malpractice
Ricardo Alonso-Zaldivar, Associated Press
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showing 1 of 4 photos
<p>President Barack Obama walks down the Colonnade of the White House in Washington, Tuesday, Oct. 20, 2009, before his departure to New York. (AP Photo/Pablo Martinez Monsivais)</p>

President Barack Obama walks down the Colonnade of the White House in Washington, Tuesday, Oct. 20, 2009, before his departure to New York. (AP Photo/Pablo Martinez Monsivais)

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WASHINGTON — President Barack Obama's willingness to consider alternatives to medical malpractice lawsuits is providing a boost for taking such cases out of the courtroom and letting experts, not juries, decide their merits.

The idea of appointing neutral experts to sift malpractice facts from allegations appeals to conservatives in both political parties. They want to address medical liability as part of health care legislation that's now largely silent on the issue. Trial lawyers remain steadfastly opposed to curbs.

Nonetheless, the American Hospital Association has been shopping a new plan to lawmakers, hoping it will be considered during Senate floor debate on health care in the coming weeks.

Separately, at a Health and Human Services hearing next week, proponents of the idea will urge the administration to provide funds for a pilot program. Obama has set aside $25 million to test a range of alternatives to malpractice litigation, and the hearing is the first step in deciding how to distribute it.

"There is a progressive opportunity here to leapfrog what has been a stereotypically polarized debate in Washington," said Will Marshall, president of the Progressive Policy Institute, a centrist Democratic think tank. "This serves both progressive and conservative goals. You wouldn't have to have a terrible injury and attract an enterprising malpractice lawyer to have access to court. And it would reduce malpractice premiums."

Doctors have maintained for years that fear of being sued leads them to order unneeded tests that raise costs for everyone. In Obama, they've found a Democratic president who accepts that premise.

Validation has also come from the Congressional Budget Office. In a turnaround, it recently concluded that malpractice curbs would lower the federal deficit by $54 billion over 10 years, mainly because Medicare and Medicaid wouldn't have to pay as much for defensive medicine.

What Obama doesn't accept is the idea of slapping hard limits on jury awards in malpractice cases, the remedy long advocated by doctors' groups. So the search is on for alternatives.

That's what Richard Umbdenstock, president of the hospital association, says his industry has come up with. "We are trying to offer this as a constructive approach, to see if we can generate some interest," he said.

Under the plan, patients who've suffered an injury at the hands of a medical professional or institution could take their case to a local panel of experts appointed by state authorities.

The patient wouldn't have to prove negligence, only that the doctor could have avoided the problem by following established guidelines for clinical practice.

If the experts find that a patient was harmed and the injury could have been avoided, the panel would offer compensation. Payments would not be open-ended, but based on a publicly available compensation schedule.

A patient who disagrees with the local panel's ruling could appeal to a higher-level panel, and ultimately, to a court.

The hospitals' proposal is similar to an idea for "health courts" from Common Good, a nonprofit group that advocates for changes in the legal system. All patients would benefit from such a system because it would create an incentive for doctors to follow clinical best practice guidelines, said lawyer Philip Howard, the group's founder.

It would also protect doctors who adhere to the standards, getting at the root of the problem of defensive medicine.

"Defensive medicine is the result of distrust by doctors in situations where they are blamed when a sick person get sicker, but they didn't do anything wrong," said Howard.

But trial lawyers say that such an approach could infringe on constitutional rights.

"We think that health courts take away the right to a jury trial," said Susan Steinman, policy director for the American Association for Justice, which represents lawyers.

It's unlikely that Congress would pass a law ordering states to adopt health courts. For one thing, trial lawyers are among the biggest contributors to Democratic candidates. But Harvard law and public health professor Michelle Mello says the federal government could encourage states to adopt such changes themselves, by offering financial grants. Sen. Mike Enzi, R-Wyo., an influential voice on health care, has advocated such an approach.

The Obama administration is keeping all its options open. A stronger medical malpractice initiative could help the health care bill get votes from moderates and conservatives. It could also alienate some liberals. The political balance is unclear.

HHS spokesman Nick Papas said any proposal that advances the president's goals of protecting patients, reducing frivolous lawsuits, fairly and quickly compensating patients who are injured, and fostering more open communication between doctors and patients will be considered for funds under the administration's $25 million pilot program.

"Medical malpractice reform is a hand extended to the Republicans," said Marshall, the Democratic centrist. "But there's no telling if they might swat it away."

© 2009 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.
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  • Public Discussion (144)
Jump to discussion page: 1 2
Jivatman

Let's hand over control of the justice system to government bureaucrats, that should fix everything.

  • 6 votes
#1 - Tue Oct 20, 2009 5:13 PM EDT
APatriot-1099400

Whoa! That's wrong on so many levels. One that jumps out is our three branches of government, Executive, Legislative, and Judical. Back to civics class, Jivatman!

  • 13 votes
#1.1 - Tue Oct 20, 2009 5:23 PM EDT
Jivatman

I missed the /s tag because I thought it would be obvious enough,

But yes, I agree, Judicial should stay Judicial. If if is decided that the laws on the books are awarding too high of damages, change the laws.

As I was attempting to convey, the last thing we need is another basic aspect of democracy (juries) turned into a exexutive-appointed bureaucratic position.

And yes, both parties support this because consist entirely of idiots. I hope it doesn't make you viners' heads explode that I'm not a republican or a democrat.

  • 4 votes
#1.2 - Tue Oct 20, 2009 5:31 PM EDT
Want Me To Play Nice? NAH!

The idea of appointing neutral experts to sift malpractice facts from allegations appeals to conservatives in both political parties, who are looking to address medical liability as part of health care overhaul legislation. Trial lawyers remain steadfastly opposed.

In theory this seems like it may be a good idea, UNTIL, you get activist experts. The thought that you can have a "neutral expert" that is appointed is a bit far fetched. Appointments in Washington, and anywhere in politics now a days, is anything but neutral, everything is about agenda. The lobbyists seem to be able to get to everyone and "influence" them in som way shape or form, at least juries you have serious penalties for tampering.

The only thing that makes me optimistic about this is that trial lawyers are against it. But the fact that it still involves lawyers makes me wary.

  • 9 votes
#1.3 - Tue Oct 20, 2009 6:04 PM EDT
Devil's Advocate-784471

I have to agree with you, Play Nice! You take guilt or innocence out of the hands of a jury of your peers and put it in the hands of so-called "neutral experts", who by the way are doctors themselves, you think you'll actually have a snowball's chance in hell of getting a decent judgment? Hell no!! Doctors looking out for the interests of fellow doctors. How is that a better idea?

I'm not saying all lawsuits involving negligence are valid ones. That woman who tried to sue the fast food chain because she dropped hot coffee on herself in their restaurant....her fault, not the restaurant's fault. Should have never even made it to court. People who claim Big Tobacco intentionally tried to get them hooked on smoking....total BS!! Even if that was their intention, the fact that common sense should have told these people, as they coughed like crazy after the first drag from their first cigarette, that what they were doing to their bodies, their lungs, was damaging to their health. Anyone who claims they didn't know smoking was bad for them is flat out lying to you! That's what I call a frivolous lawsuit.

However, I pay some doctor, with the help of my medical insurance company, unimaginably large sums of money to put me under anesthesia, cut me open, take out my spleen, sew me back up, and wheel me back to my room. Upon further review, it is discovered that the organ to be removed was to be my appendix, not my spleen! My life, from that last fateful swipe of the scalpel as it separated me from my apparently healthy spleen, is affected, and I should be paid restitution for the mistake, as well as punitive damages to punish the doctors for their lack of detail. I put my trust in a professional that makes hundreds of thousands of dollars a year, and you think he shouldn't pay for his mistakes??

Oh, you'll hear that medical costs have risen because of malpractice suits and settlements. Take away the threat of malpractice suits and the costs will come down. But, in reality, the costs will not come down. In reality, the money you pay will, instead of going to malpractice insurance, go straight into paying for your doctor's 40-foot yacht!

Greed....it's killing this country!

  • 1 vote
#1.4 - Tue Oct 20, 2009 7:41 PM EDT
Eric AlbertDeleted
Eric AlbertDeleted
netprophet

I'm not sure that doctors would want to have to actually keep up with current medical practices by following a set of defined criteria. They're too pompous. It would likely actually help patients, though.

  • 1 vote
#1.7 - Tue Oct 20, 2009 7:49 PM EDT
Jake-413451

I also have to agree. Calling people who are appointees neutral just doesn't seem accurate, or likely to be what occurs.

The only segment of government that seems to be mostly neutral is the CBO, and even they have been accused of being a bit biased from time to time.

Just look at the nomination process for Judges, who are supposed to be neutral, they are made to be entirely biased by both parties. I do not think it would be a stretch to assume everyone here could name at least one judge who they felt was biased, let alone an entire court.

While I think it is a nice effort I would like to see how they plan to prevent party and special interest group desires from dominating the process of making these independent panels.

  • 2 votes
#1.8 - Tue Oct 20, 2009 7:51 PM EDT
bleat_onDeleted
yyttDeleted
neoatg

I said it last time and I'll say it now . If they are not going after the basically unregulated malpractice insurance companies then nothing to do with malpractice insurgence will go down.

This independent appointment crap will not work because the postion will become a target of the health care lobbyist, they will sooner or later buy out the position. This of course will lead to almost no one wronged by a health care professional ever getting justice. It's a stupid short sighted idea period.

Tour reform doesn't work. All the CBO reports or anyone else reports on tour reform always takes the word of the Malpractice insurance companies that if the government makes it harder for We The People to sue they will lower cost. Guess what the malpractice insurance groups never do, why because they are never put under a regulation or a law to do so. All that happens is Doctors and Nurses end up paying even more, and we the people lose more and more of our rights to justice when a health care professtional harms or kills us or an health care insurance company denies to pay for care that they know they have to pay for.

  • 2 votes
#1.11 - Tue Oct 20, 2009 10:49 PM EDT
SonOfLliberty2008

Considering that the experts are the ones performing the malpractice, it would seem pretty damned silly to let them decide what is malpractice.

This health care reform is looking more and more like welfare for the people that are bankrupting our country.

What's a poor martian mother to do?

    #1.12 - Tue Oct 20, 2009 11:14 PM EDT
    Zoolopolis

    If the experts find that a patient was harmed and the injury could have been avoided, the panel would offer compensation. Payments would not be open-ended, but based on a publicly available compensation schedule.

    A patient who disagrees with the local panel's ruling could appeal to a higher-level panel, and ultimately, to a court.

    I'll tentatively support this idea. Don't have much time to research it before I go to work.

    I would want a requirement that the local and higher-level panels make their decisions quickly so that people can still go to court.

      #1.13 - Wed Oct 21, 2009 9:31 AM EDT
      Karl_

      Things are never what they seem. There are actors that stand to lose a significant slice of their revenues in this process: Lawyers, for one.

      Lawyers do get a noticeable slice of the Health pie via the redaction of contracts and litigation, and paradoxically, it is in their best financial interests to drag health care cases in court, and demand mega settlements.

      There are so many hands in the Health care pot that the percentage of its budget that makes it to the health care front lines is pretty slim.

      • 2 votes
      #1.14 - Wed Oct 21, 2009 11:23 AM EDT
      Jain

      the money you pay will, instead of going to malpractice insurance, go straight into paying for your doctor's 40-foot yacht!
      Greed....it's killing this country!

      Agreed 100 %. But its not only the doctors who are greedy. Patient's are just as greedy. Regardless of our ability to pay, we all seem to want the "best" healthcare. Nevermind that it has not been proven to improve outcomes. We still want it because we are entitled to it. As Obama said we have to stop demanding healthcare resources that do not make us any better, and sometimes they actually make us worse. This tendency among Americans probably stems from the fact that most Americans view death as unamerican. Death is an afront to the american dream.

        #1.15 - Wed Oct 21, 2009 2:27 PM EDT
        2scentsworth

        the money you pay will, instead of going to malpractice insurance, go straight into paying for your doctor's 40-foot yacht! Greed....it's killing this country!

        I disagree. My best friend's husband is a doctor, and they do not, by any stretch of the imagination, live extravagantly. The payments that are made to the facility he works at certainly don't wind up in his pockets, but the facility owners and primary shareholders.

        Additionally, he can't afford to go into practice for himself, primarily because the malpractice insurance rates are untouchable in their area. He worked at the VA Hospital for many years (and is a vet himself), but doesn't have a 40-foot yacht, but a modest home in the country.

        And for the record, do a search on tort reform in Texas, and I think you'll be surprised at how much it can save all of us. We have it here and it's made a huge difference. Those that are against tort reform are the very ones fearful of losing income from that reform....the attorneys.

        • 3 votes
        #1.16 - Wed Oct 21, 2009 10:16 PM EDT
        Kathy's Kid

        2centsworth,

        IIRC either Kentucky or Tennessee also saw positive results from med mal tort reform.

        I'm familiar with this issue from both professional and personal experience on a variety of levels both on the insurance company side and the physician side and agree with you regarding docs expenses. I don't know anyone who's raking in the cash.

        Few people believe this, but the truth vs. the popular myth regarding insurance companies (at least casualty co's) profits is that they mostly come from investment income from unearned premium, not underwriting. It is far more likely in any given year, regardless of the type of policy, that there will be a net underwriting loss. What this means in general terms is that property and casualty insurance companies are not reaping ginormous profits from med mal policies. In other words, they pay more out in claims than they take in from premiums charged. This is true for personal auto and homeowners insurance as well.

        Another important issue is the # of docs no longer practicing, moving, or choosing a different specialty. Obstetrics is a good example of this and it's going on in my own county.

        --Brenda Mayer

        • 1 vote
        #1.17 - Thu Oct 22, 2009 8:01 AM EDT
        2scentsworth

        Enacting a typical set of proposals would reduce federal budget deficits by roughly $54 billion over the next 10 years, according to estimates by CBO and the staff of the Joint Committee of Taxation.

        (source: Congressional Budget Office - "CBO's Analysis of the Effects of Proposals to Limit Costs Related to Medical Malpractice ("Tort Reform")"

        Thanks Brenda (Kathy's Kid)! Here's a location showing tort reform by state (as of 2005).

        This is from 2007, but gives an idea of what's going on with doctor's moving to areas with tort reform.

        • 2 votes
        #1.18 - Thu Oct 22, 2009 5:45 PM EDT
        Reply
        seahawks76

        I actually welcome this with open arms...just so we don't have doctors and experts with insurance and lobby ties/interests on said panels.

        • 7 votes
        Reply#2 - Tue Oct 20, 2009 5:23 PM EDT
        whatanoddguy

        I welcome this just so long as it yields world peace and a cure for cancer. My conditions are probably more likely to be met than yours.

        • 4 votes
        #2.1 - Tue Oct 20, 2009 5:57 PM EDT
        Homeboy-1410986Deleted
        FrJackHackett

        It's not difficult to find medical experts not beholden to big money insurance. It's not the Republican party.

        • 10 votes
        #2.3 - Tue Oct 20, 2009 6:19 PM EDT
        Jivatman

        Let's take a look at Obama's record of appointting Goldman Sachs Employees in finance positions:

        A Goldman executive as COO of the SEC's enforcement division. This is all consistent with the observation of Desmond Lachman -- previously chief emerging market strategist at Salomon Smith Barney and IMF deputy director -- regarding "Goldman Sachs's seeming lock on high-level U.S. Treasury jobs," which he cited as but one of the many "parallels between U.S. policymaking and what we see in emerging markets."...

        In January of this year, Tim Geithner hired a former Goldman Sachs lobbyist, Mark Patterson, to be his top aide and Chief of Staff. In March, President Obama nominated Goldman Sachs executive Gary Gensler to head the Commodity Futures Trading Commission, which regulates futures markets, even though (or "because") Gensler confessed to lax regulation during the Clinton administration over the very derivative instruments that caused the financial crisis. In April, Goldman hired as its top lobbyist Michael Paese, the top aide to Rep. Barney Frank on the House Financial Services Committee which Frank chairs.

        • 3 votes
        #2.4 - Tue Oct 20, 2009 6:52 PM EDT
        Samantha Joy

        If you're ruling out all doctors *and* everyone who has health care industry connections, who would you consider "expert' enough to sit on the panel?

        • 1 vote
        #2.5 - Tue Oct 20, 2009 7:38 PM EDT
        whatanoddguy

        who would you consider "expert' enough to sit on the panel?

        A judge and/or jury.

          #2.6 - Tue Oct 20, 2009 9:30 PM EDT
          SonOfLliberty2008

          It's not difficult to find medical experts not beholden to big money insurance

          On what planet?

            #2.7 - Tue Oct 20, 2009 11:15 PM EDT
            DonkeyRidder

            It's not difficult to find medical experts not beholden to big money insurance. It's not the Republican party.

            Medical experts are beholden to who gives the most butter for their bread. The government and trial lawyers have the most butter available.

            I actually welcome this with open arms...just so we don't have doctors and experts with insurance and lobby ties/interests on said panels.

            And just so we don't have liberals who are continually working feverishly to redistribute wealth to themselves, or who hold a grudge about having to actually pay for their health care, or who would sell their mother's body for some cigarettes and beer.

              #2.8 - Wed Oct 21, 2009 9:49 AM EDT
              FrJackHackett

              Who suggested that Obama would appoint anyone to this panel? Certainly not Obama. Let's bring some reality into this, eh? Not Obama Derangement.

                #2.9 - Wed Oct 21, 2009 7:01 PM EDT
                DonkeyRidder

                Let's be clear. There will be no tort reform. The mention of it by Obama is a ruse.

                Now on to the illusory panel and how it is composed and who decides on the composition, Obama's panel would be a construct of the government, so the government will decide who is on it, and Obama plans to be the head of government for life, so it will be his panel. He might have an intermediary, a malpractice czar, maybe John Edwards or some other impartial liberal medical malpractice expert. Quite simple logic really.

                  #2.10 - Thu Oct 22, 2009 8:43 AM EDT
                  Anita Bail Out

                  Agreed. This is a red herring meant marginalize the vast majority who are in favor of tort reform.

                  Payments would not be open-ended, but based on a publicly available compensation schedule.

                  This is an interesting little tidbit. I wonder who is going to determine the compensation schedule and what they will base it on?

                    #2.11 - Thu Oct 22, 2009 8:48 AM EDT
                    Reply
                    Bootstraps

                    "Law Panels"

                      Reply#3 - Tue Oct 20, 2009 5:24 PM EDT
                      seahawks76

                      ^Appointed by "local" government. "Law Panels" says nothing as to who will be appointed, simply "experts" is said.

                        Reply#4 - Tue Oct 20, 2009 5:27 PM EDT
                        SonOfLliberty2008

                        Experts are the bane of our society.

                          #4.1 - Tue Oct 20, 2009 11:16 PM EDT
                          Blearc

                          Experts are the bane of our society

                          I understand what kind of "experts" you are referring to but considering the recent report on our standing in math and science, this statement out of context is funny as hell.

                          • 1 vote
                          #4.2 - Wed Oct 21, 2009 12:54 AM EDT
                          FrJackHackett

                          Of course, we learned to our collective sorrow over the previous president's reign of utter incompetence what qualifies as "expert" on that side of the political spectrum: "you're doin' a heckuva job, Brownie."

                          • 1 vote
                          #4.3 - Wed Oct 21, 2009 7:03 PM EDT
                          Reply
                          DonkeyRidder

                          Obama is a liar and can't be trusted. No matter what he says, until it is actually done, his words mean nothing. This supposed Obama malpractice reform interest is fake, a simple minded attempt to look sincere to lull physicians into complacency in the Obama health care take over. The trial lawyers are where Obama's allegiance lies, not those greedy doctors who take out tonsils unnecessarily and amputate legs for $40,000 rather than trying to save them.

                          As to "expert" panels deciding, if they are Marxist experts appointed by Obama flunkies, forget it. Odds of justice are better with dumb liberal Americans on a jury (not much) than any justice coming from a Marxist Obama appointee.

                          • 2 votes
                          Reply#5 - Tue Oct 20, 2009 5:47 PM EDT
                          FrJackHackett

                          It's sort of quaint reading all those worn out right-wing epithets and rants. They certainly recycle well....but wait, isn't recycling a Marxist plot?

                          • 11 votes
                          #5.1 - Tue Oct 20, 2009 6:24 PM EDT
                          pattherealistDeleted
                          DonkeyRidder

                          but wait, isn't recycling a Marxist plot?

                          Marxism is very keen on recycling, returning human flesh to the soil, re-employing failed ideas, recycling gold fillings. Yes, you are correct, Marxists recycle history, tyranny, mass executions, poverty, starvation. All of this lies in the future of Obamaworld.

                          • 2 votes
                          #5.3 - Tue Oct 20, 2009 6:40 PM EDT
                          DonkeyRidder

                          God Bless The World, God Bless America, and God Bless and protect our great and noble new leader, President Barack Obama. sincerly Amen.

                          "God bless His children, God bless America, and God help us through this time of godless, immoral, and unethical rule by those who in their minds believe they know better than You, believe they know better than any and all who have come before, believe they know better than those who have tried their philosophy and methods before resulting in hundreds of millions of Your children killed, maimed, and enslaved. God help Barack Obama get his mind right and find a love for America, a love for those not like him, a love for those defending this country, and less love for power and control. God, please give us the patience to suffer through this liberal pestilence without losing hope for a return to the freedom and liberty You granted this country and Your children. Amen."

                          Yes, I will say it repeatedly. You pray to Obama and I'll pray to God.

                          Please stop insulting my president.

                          I will continue to give truthful observations about your President. His followers need some education about their false god, their power and control driven dictator wannabe, world ruler wannabe, white hating, America hating Marxist. Get used to the truth and maybe you won't make the same mistake next election.

                          • 1 vote
                          #5.4 - Wed Oct 21, 2009 6:50 AM EDT
                          studybug

                          Lordy, I didn't think I would ever agree with the donkey. However, I have to agree now. Having worked in the medical field in Houston, Texas for 12 years - I have seen with my own eyes doctors changing records/chart notes when they are faced with a law suit for malpractice. You folks just don't realize what doctors are capable of, and don't forget - they bury most of their "mistakes". They will lie for each other no matter what. I am neither republican nor democrat - doesn't seem to make much difference who is "president" - all of Washington is for sale to the highest bidder PERIOD. Washington is filled to the brim with liars, thieves, perverts, and a killer or two thrown in for balance. We have had taxation for years without representation - doesn't matter which "party" is "in charge". If you don't believe this, try to contact your "representative" at the federal, state or local level and see how far you get with any concern you may have. There is very little difference between the two parties - mostly just name. To place any human being above God will always fail. We are all flawed, and only with the guiding hand of God can we possibly change the direction this country is headed. Very sad.

                          • 3 votes
                          #5.5 - Wed Oct 21, 2009 3:43 PM EDT
                          DonkeyRidder

                          Uh, don't agree with me. My remarks about the tonsils and amputations were recitations of Obama accusations, you know, his demonizing the minority to gain the support of the majority. I don't agree with his remarks, of course. Just wait, you'll be on the butt end of one of his demonizing accusations some day, when it serves him a politically expediant purpose.

                          How about you tell each and every doctor you see for help that you don't trust him/her, at that very first visit, and advise them you'll sue them if they mess up, just to get the realtionship off on the Obama recommended left foot. Or better yet, just don't go to a doctor and save yourself some money and all that risk.

                            #5.6 - Wed Oct 21, 2009 5:09 PM EDT
                            studybug

                            The doctors myself and/or my husband see KNOW I do NOT trust them - I make no bones about that fact. As stated above - it is useless to threaten them with "suing" - useless endeavor. They know I research every pill they prescribe or any x-rays, and for sure any surgery they may wish to "perform". I have seen enough malpractice to do me for two lifetimes. I don't go to a doctor for them to "like" me - I couldn't care less. I am more concerned whether they actually attended medical school or not. THERE ARE "DOCTORS" WHO HAVE NEVER ATTENDED A MEDICAL SCHOOL. All would do well to keep that in mind. They worm their way in and all too often they succeed. The only thing they know about most medications would be what the drug rep tells them. They have very little "pharmacy" in school even if they did attend. New drugs come out every month, and the doctors do NOT check on what treatment they are to treat, and they do not know any of the side effects. You are certainly free to make a joke about all this, but unfortunately what I am trying to tell you is all too true.

                            • 1 vote
                            #5.7 - Wed Oct 21, 2009 5:39 PM EDT
                            FrJackHackett

                            Marxism is very keen on recycling, returning human flesh to the soil

                            So burying the dead is also a Marxist plot? I'll say this for Mr. Ass. His particular brand of far out kooksville right wing unhinged lunacy is a real good reminder of that dangerous underbelly of America.

                            • 1 vote
                            #5.8 - Wed Oct 21, 2009 7:11 PM EDT
                            DonkeyRidder

                            So burying the dead is also a Marxist plot?

                            I get it, bury, plot. You'd have to tell me whether Marxists prefer burying over cremating. It is the Marxist creation of the hundreds of millions of premature deaths that causes me concern with the Marxist philosophy and its followers. Sane people just don't want to participate, so Marxist rulers just kill the dissidents.

                            The danger in America comes from the Democrat mainstream party. The average Democrat is a typical left wing "kook", out to destroy America, out to bring their brand of poverty and enslavement to all.

                              #5.9 - Thu Oct 22, 2009 7:25 AM EDT
                              Kevin Burkholder

                              The average Democrat is a typical left wing "kook", out to destroy America, out to bring their brand of poverty and enslavement to all.

                              Yup. That's been my goal for the last 30+ years. I want everybody living in poverty and working as slaves. I want to destroy America and institute the worst possible dictatorship.

                              I eat babies too so keep your little kiddies away.

                              • 1 vote
                              #5.10 - Thu Oct 22, 2009 7:34 AM EDT
                              DonkeyRidder

                              The doctors myself and/or my husband see KNOW I do NOT trust them - I make no bones about that fact. As stated above - it is useless to threaten them with "suing" - useless endeavor.

                              Make sure you keep reminding them of that mistrust. As appointments get tight and the doctors really don't care how many patients they see since they are salaried government agents, you'll be the first one to get kicked out of the practice, the doctors preferring patients with some trust and less anger. You might be able to find a second or third rate doctor who'll put up with assininity.

                              How does your husband feel about your distrust of him? Has he started making less time for appointments, too?

                              Yup. That's been my goal for the last 30+ years. I want everybody living in poverty and working as slaves. I want to destroy America and institute the worst possible dictatorship.

                              Then you are truly at home with the Democrats ande yuou have your dream President in office. You are proof of my assertions.

                                #5.11 - Thu Oct 22, 2009 7:34 AM EDT
                                Reply
                                network-gal

                                As long as we're discussing Liability insurance........

                                I wonder if Universal Health care would give us an opportunity to get rid of Workman's Comp? Businesses spend 30%+ of payroll expenses for a system that is totally broken and puts lawyers and employers in control of employee medical care. You don't get the care you need with this system and it screws up your life for years and years. You'd have to beef up the OSHA coverage so they could visit an accident site within hours and if each state had a review board that had Dr's, labor representative (union), Osha,and the employer and employee with no lawyers involved. The review board could insure the health needs are ordered, review the responsibility of the accident, and it could be done on video conference in 30 minute sessions. All the money spent on Workmans comp by companies could be paying for universal Health care and Save Money! The employee would need to continue to be paid as if they were on the job until they could return.

                                AND WE ALL GET HEALTH CARE!

                                A cap on lawsuits is needed to reduce the Dr's costs which would reduce all costs for everyone. Right now the only people benefiting from all this is liability insurance companies and lawyers.... And none of this gets us Health Care

                                • 10 votes
                                Reply#6 - Tue Oct 20, 2009 5:57 PM EDT
                                MotherKnowsBest-719453Deleted
                                pattherealistDeleted
                                island jeff

                                Really good post Network-gal, but we have to be careful with caps. The only respect the average consumer gets from big corporations and insurance companies is the access we all have to our local courthouse. Once we give that up and replace it with set caps liability becomes a simple numbers game.

                                • 3 votes
                                #6.3 - Tue Oct 20, 2009 8:15 PM EDT
                                network-gal

                                Very true Jeff but you can be tied up for years and never see a court with this WC system.

                                I assume you might have been referring to caps on Dr liability. I do know Dr's in California pay over $100,000 a year. Why is it everything has to have insurance? If everything didn't have a threat to it insurance companies wouldn't exist. We bet something will happen when we buy insurance and the companies are betting it won't and they won't have to pay anything......interesting.

                                • 1 vote
                                #6.4 - Wed Oct 21, 2009 1:23 AM EDT
                                Michael Crowley

                                I work for a multi-million dollar corporation.. the largest in my city.. and one of the things I most look for with a government healthcare option is that employers can get OUT Of the business of healthcare.. we have a big team of people whose sole purpose is to review and research healthcare plans, calculate spending, how much we've paid in from both our company, and each employee.. finding out if there's going to be an increase next year.. what changes we can make to save money... blah blah blah.

                                I work at a gift company.. and we have a larger team of people that handle the healthcare paperwork and administration.. then our E-Commerce team that handles email from 400,000 customers..

                                Think about that for just a second?

                                • 3 votes
                                #6.5 - Wed Oct 21, 2009 2:26 AM EDT
                                Kathy's Kid

                                network-gal,

                                This is a great question and I agree it would seem to make sense to scrap the WC system that is loathed by so many as part of healthcare reform.

                                However it is unlikely to happen, ever. This is because WC is run by each individual state. Each state has their own statutes governing all things WC. Here in Florida every single aspect is statutory. Additionally, under the current WC system employers that comply are essentially immune from being sued for negligence resulting in employee injury. There would have to be some type of mechanism to deal with this, and a host of other issues, prior to the elimination of any state's WC program.

                                --Brenda Mayer (former insurance adjuster)

                                  #6.6 - Wed Oct 21, 2009 5:51 PM EDT
                                  Reply
                                  Homeboy-1410986Deleted
                                  Homeboy-1410986Deleted
                                  GaryColumbus

                                  The headline should have been Another liars idea in health care debate. There's no way a conservative is going to sell me this BS. So shove it righties.

                                  • 4 votes
                                  Reply#9 - Tue Oct 20, 2009 6:03 PM EDT
                                  Want Me To Play Nice? NAH!

                                  Nonetheless, the American Hospital Association has been shopping a new plan to lawmakers, hoping it will be considered during Senate floor debate on health care in the coming weeks.

                                  "There is a progressive opportunity here to leapfrog what has been a stereotypically polarized debate in Washington," said Will Marshall, president of the Progressive Policy Institute, a centrist Democratic think tank. "This serves both progressive and conservative goals. You wouldn't have to have a terrible injury and attract an enterprising malpractice lawyer to have access to court. And it would reduce malpractice premiums."

                                  Nobody is trying to sell you anything, except maybe Ritalin so that you will be able to read the entire article. Not coming from the conservatives, but hey, the understanding and openmindedness is inspirational that we will be able to come to a mutually acceptable soilution for healthcare. (GACK!)

                                  I am surprised that the left would even entertain this since they are nothing more than the $5 whores for the trial lawyer lobby.

                                  Shove it? Wow, and you wonder why the right is so belligerent in their arguments against healthcare? Right back at you lefty!

                                  • 3 votes
                                  #9.1 - Tue Oct 20, 2009 6:19 PM EDT
                                  GaryColumbus

                                  Nobody is trying to sell you anything

                                  Yea right. Didn't work the first time.

                                  $5 whores

                                  I guess you're the expert. Trial lawyers are the one's yanking your chain (as Lush would put it), in this BS article. And just because it's from a writer in the AP, don't try to sell me the idea that he's liberal. You goldarn righties are trying to infiltrate everything and then say, "see, they're doing it too".

                                  Give me one argument that you didn't learn on a conservative talk show. And no I don't get all my information from MSNBC. But I'll say they give a more lucid argument.

                                  • 1 vote
                                  #9.2 - Tue Oct 20, 2009 6:52 PM EDT
                                  Want Me To Play Nice? NAH!

                                  Actually Gary, I am looking at the fact that this is being proposed by the American Hospital Association, not a right wing operative.

                                  This is being supported by the Progressive Policy Institute, a centrist Democratic think tank.

                                  This is being opposed by trial lawyers.

                                  You seem to be unable to read the article and see that it is being supported by people on BOTH sides and proposed by American Hospital Association. (That link comes form the govt website of Health and Human Services, last time I checked it was not being run by a righty)

                                  I did not get the info from a talk show I got it from the article, you remember the article dont you? The one you are supposed to read when commenting on it?

                                  I bet you were the kind of kid that read the back of the book cover to do the book report?

                                  "Medical malpractice reform is a hand extended to the Republicans," said Marshall, the Democratic centrist. "But there's no telling if they might swat it away."

                                  This was at the end of the article, I will save you the trouble of having to go and find it, but it does not appear that this was a proposal by the Republicans, but instead a proposal by the left to get the Republicans on board with some of the reform.

                                  • 4 votes
                                  #9.3 - Tue Oct 20, 2009 7:15 PM EDT
                                  GaryColumbus

                                  I am looking at the fact that this is being proposed by the American Hospital Association

                                  And you're seeing only what you want to.

                                  the American Hospital Association has been shopping a new plan to lawmakers

                                  Shopping a new plan. Shopping, shopping, shopping. (In my opinion and own words: full of sh1t, full of sh1t, full of sh1t). They didn't write crap for this article. They're shopping. How many times do you need to hear to understand the undercurrents and motivations of the insurance vs medical industry? They're all damn crooks wanting a bigger slice.

                                  This serves both progressive and conservative goals

                                  That tells me it's really a conservative think tank disguising itself as middle of the isle. I don't believe none of it.

                                  panel of experts appointed by state authorities

                                  Isn't that what pharmaceuticals do? They hire doctors to prove their product is safe, and if they don't favor the drug they'll find someone who will. Kind of like the USDA. All of them are liars. They don't care if it's safe. They only want profit. And unfortunately so do the lawyers who are fighting this part of the debate. By the way, all this health care reform nonsense is really the lawyers fault. When the law was changed for malpractice caps, that was initially meant to curb the lawyers fees, but they structured the wording into their favor.

                                  Don't try to get me to believe the left is pitching to the right. That is a very weak bluff. The industries that don't want reform are going to use any and all means to trip up people like you who believe what they want to see and hear. Try reading between the lines, using perspective instead of close-mindedness. Damnable 25 cent right-wing whores.

                                  • 1 vote
                                  #9.4 - Tue Oct 20, 2009 8:07 PM EDT
                                  Want Me To Play Nice? NAH!

                                  "There is a progressive opportunity here to leapfrog what has been a stereotypically polarized debate in Washington," said Will Marshall, president of the Progressive Policy Institute, a centrist Democratic think tank. "This serves both progressive and conservative goals. You wouldn't have to have a terrible injury and attract an enterprising malpractice lawyer to have access to court. And it would reduce malpractice premiums."

                                  That tells me it's really a conservative think tank disguising itself as middle of the isle. I don't believe none of it.

                                  The object of "this" in the statement is not referencing the think tank, it is referencing the non-biased experts idea. So while you are reading between the lines, try some of the words that are on the lines.

                                  You seem to just not want to believe the story so you are clutching at straws for reasons to not believe that there may be an issue the two sides may agree upon.

                                  panel of experts appointed by state authorities

                                  Isn't that what pharmaceuticals do? They hire doctors to prove their product is safe, and if they don't favor the drug they'll find someone who will. Kind of like the USDA. All of them are liars.

                                  So you are saying that by putting the determination of malpractice into the governments hands we are making a mistake? But yet you think that by dropping the entire healthcare issue into the govt's lap they will get that right? Arent they all "liars"?

                                  • 1 vote
                                  #9.5 - Tue Oct 20, 2009 8:41 PM EDT
                                  Reply
                                  Blearc

                                  A patient who disagrees with the local panel's ruling could appeal to a higher-level panel, and ultimately, to a court.

                                  Ohh look more bureaucracy.........

                                  • 3 votes
                                  Reply#10 - Tue Oct 20, 2009 6:04 PM EDT
                                  FrJackHackett

                                  This could be step one. There is already one of these panels in existence for people who have a claim of having had injury due to vaccination and it works very well. Vaccine manufacturers got this as a protection from frivolous lawsuits. It hasn't prevented someone from suing but it greatly limits the chance of success if the panel determines that vaccines were unlikely the cause of any alleged problem. One further sop to throw to the docs might be to make a plaintiff also sue the government as well as a doctor if that doctor accepts all government paid health plans in his/her practice. But, either way, malpractice fears still only generate a pittance of excess in a system that spends $2.7 trillion a year. Even if all malpractice cases miraculously disappeared, you wouldn't be able to discern the financial effect in a spending pile that big. It'd be like taking one leaf out of a 10 thousand leaf pile.

                                  • 4 votes
                                  Reply#11 - Tue Oct 20, 2009 6:15 PM EDT
                                  FrJackHackett

                                  It's sort of quaint reading all those worn out right-wing epithets and rants. They certainly recycle well....but wait, isn't recycling a Marxist plot?

                                  • 3 votes
                                  Reply#12 - Tue Oct 20, 2009 6:28 PM EDT
                                  FrJackHackett

                                  Wake me up when Obama lies us into a war, okie dokie?

                                  • 5 votes
                                  Reply#13 - Tue Oct 20, 2009 6:30 PM EDT
                                  mike from wisc

                                  You better stay awake cause I'd bet that that's right around the corner.

                                  • 2 votes
                                  #13.1 - Tue Oct 20, 2009 6:42 PM EDT
                                  Jivatman

                                  Wake me up when Obama lies us into a war, okie dokie?

                                  Pretty sad standard for our (former) Republic when being marginally better than the (nearly) worst president in American history qualifies as good.

                                  I will wake you up though, if he is successful in starting a war from his hysterical threats against Iran, and his escalation of the wars in Afganistan, Pakistan, and Iraq, all of which, by the way, border Iran.

                                  I will admit to you, yes, the style is completely different from Bush. The substance, not so much.

                                  • 2 votes
                                  #13.2 - Tue Oct 20, 2009 6:45 PM EDT
                                  Want Me To Play Nice? NAH!

                                  Wake me up when Obama lies us into a war, okie dokie?

                                  So you are able to sleep when he lies about getting us out of one?

                                  • 2 votes
                                  #13.3 - Tue Oct 20, 2009 7:22 PM EDT
                                  FrJackHackett

                                  No where, and never, did Obama say he would pull out of Iraq abruptly. So far he has not done anything he didn't tell us he was going to do when elected. That you didn't listen to him doesn't mean he didn't say it.

                                    #13.4 - Wed Oct 21, 2009 12:26 PM EDT
                                    FrJackHackett

                                    being marginally better than

                                    Unless your definition of "marginally" is "several orders of magnitude," I think you actually have been asleep.

                                    • 1 vote
                                    #13.5 - Wed Oct 21, 2009 6:58 PM EDT
                                    Reply
                                    pattherealistDeleted
                                    ettenna

                                    There is just NO right choice. Claims of malpractice either go before a jury and voluminous $$$ are awarded, or the case is adjudicated among health care professionals (who may or may not) have a "stake" in the outcome. This a devil and deep blue sea dilemma.

                                    What is the answer? Well, how about a mediation panel? 7 panel members, plaintiff, defendant. No judge, no lawyers, just the facts. Course maintaining honesty within the medical forum may present the most arduous task.

                                    • 2 votes
                                    Reply#15 - Tue Oct 20, 2009 8:30 PM EDT
                                    ettenna

                                    I'm kinda with Neoatg #1.11 on regulating the insurance companies who provide malpractice insurance. I think there is some legitimacy to Tort Reform but it's the risk of "give'em an inch and they'll take a mile". The "greed factor" will always be a force for the dark side and until that threat is mitigated we will remain in the vortex of victimization by insurance companies.

                                      #15.1 - Wed Oct 21, 2009 8:05 AM EDT
                                      Reply
                                      MrWizeAzz

                                      The hospitals' proposal is similar to an idea for "health courts" from Common Good, a nonprofit group that advocates for changes in the legal system. All patients would benefit from such a system because it would create an incentive for doctors to follow clinical best practice guidelines, said lawyer Philip Howard, the group's founder.

                                      "incentive for doctors to follow clinical best practice guidelines"... Yeah.. like I want my doctor making my medical decisions based on the Medicine for Dummies guidebook. Why is this a good thing? I believe we should have medical malpractice reform but lets do it without influencing my doctor's decisions.

                                        Reply#16 - Tue Oct 20, 2009 8:38 PM EDT
                                        cromagnnman

                                        Having talked to doctors first hand, I could not agree more. I am not an expert but have talked to a few who complain about unnecessary procedures dictated. Obviously, standardized operating procedures are welcomed where efficient, but to what degree?

                                        IS THERE A DOCTOR IN THE ROOM???????

                                        Would an experienced doctor please comment on this for a better discussion please.

                                        • 1 vote
                                        #16.1 - Wed Oct 21, 2009 5:13 PM EDT
                                        Reply
                                        Nicole-1272536

                                        It will be interesting to see what the final outcome is on this one. I have said for a long time that to fix Health Care, you must also address the Judicial systems role. These cases that tie up courtrooms for years - some are frivolous, some have full merit. Outrageous settlements, excessive costs of malpractice insurance...ordering too many tests to avoid problems, it is all a big mess.

                                        The cold reality is that doctors are not Gods. If they are negligent, they should be held accountable - but with limits. Most really try to uphold the oath they have taken and cause no harm.

                                        • 2 votes
                                        Reply#17 - Tue Oct 20, 2009 9:00 PM EDT
                                        NC Obama Supporter

                                        The cold reality is that doctors are not Gods. If they are negligent, they should be held accountable - but with limits. Most really try to uphold the oath they have taken and cause no harm.

                                        Agreed. A doctor that saves 1000 lives and has the potential to save thousands more should not be ruined for one mistake.

                                        • 2 votes
                                        #17.1 - Wed Oct 21, 2009 2:40 PM EDT
                                        Reply
                                        ingenjon

                                        Hey, great idea, lets just improve the system we have by regulation. Lets give our soldiers a few thousand dollars and crappy health insurance for getting their legs blown off, and reward others millions for spilling coffee in their laps, and give our elected representatives retirement pay and the best health insurance for life by serving One term. I'm sure our outstanding representatives will handle this with great care. While we're at it, lets give AIG a trillion or so so they can make bonuses, then make it a law that all Americans have to buy their health insurance. Yeah, thats the ticket!

                                        • 3 votes
                                        Reply#18 - Tue Oct 20, 2009 9:20 PM EDT
                                        Nicole-1272536

                                        Understood.

                                          #18.1 - Tue Oct 20, 2009 9:35 PM EDT
                                          Reply
                                          Mark-702026

                                          Here we go again. The current administrations answer is to create a new massive bureaucratic, and unconstitutional, wing of the executive branch.

                                          The answer is easy. Loser pays, and reasonable formulation and statue limits on settlements.

                                          • 1 vote
                                          Reply#19 - Tue Oct 20, 2009 9:38 PM EDT
                                          Blearc

                                          This idea does not come from the administration. Actually you will find it well spelled out in HR3400, the republican answer to health care reform.

                                            #19.1 - Wed Oct 21, 2009 12:55 AM EDT
                                            Kevin Burkholder

                                            Mark,

                                            The answer is easy. Loser pays, and reasonable formulation and statue limits on settlements.

                                            Loser pays? Think about it... let's go through a scenario...

                                            You're getting medical treatment or surgery, your doctor screws up, you think you have a good case for malpractice. You hire a lawyer who agrees - good case.

                                            The lawyer charges $200-300 an hour which you must pay - at least until the trial ends (hopefully in your favor).

                                            You re-mortgage your house, max out your credit cards, whatever you can to pay this lawyer for months leading up to the trial.

                                            Ah, but the insurance company and doctor have more money and a team of lawyers. They spend a million dollars to make sure they don't loose the case.

                                            You loose the case - now you're broke, in debt over your head, lost your house AND you owe the doctor $1 million to cover his attorney fees.

                                            Not to mention your medical bills.

                                            Loser pays - good plan.

                                              #19.2 - Wed Oct 21, 2009 6:14 AM EDT
                                              Mark-702026

                                              Kevin Burkholder --- Think about this. If you have a truly good case you will not lose. If you have a good case all personal injury suits are taken on contingency. So, no there is no upfront costs in the real world, and there is no cost from your side. The judge will determine the resaonable attorney fees you owe the other side.

                                              There way too many frivolous lawsuits that get settled out of court because it is not worth the fight. It is cheaper to settle. I know of least two people that make a living out of suing people (former employees).

                                              There is a reasonable risk to every procedure. Think about this Your brother is having gall bladder surgery. No big deal out patient, he is told not to eat or drink after midnight. Since it no big deal he does not follow the directive. He goes to cardiac arrest while being put under, who's fault is that. It today's world the grief factor will compel the family member to seek justice, and the insurance company pays out like a slot machine to avoid a costly legal battle.

                                              You can't have you cake and eat it too. You can't complain about high insurance costs on one hand and oppose one the major factor that is causing those high costs.

                                              We can't live in a risk free bubble.

                                              Blearc -- You my be right I will have to research that one and get back to you.

                                              • 1 vote
                                              #19.3 - Wed Oct 21, 2009 10:02 AM EDT
                                              Mark-702026

                                              Here is another point. It is really not even a topic. Does anyone think that under the Government option you are going to be able to sue a doctor for malpractice?

                                              If there is a government option doctors will not be able to get malpractice insurance against the government option. You can bet you bottom dollar there will restrictions that arise as to what you can do while being a patient under the great government option.

                                              If I was running a malpractice division of an insurance company I would include a rider that we will not defend when the patient is under government care.

                                              That is what people are not seeing here. The unintended consequences. Private insurance will disappear. It will become too risking and not profitable. Then where are we going to turn for justice? Try suing the government some time, talk about costly.

                                              • 1 vote
                                              #19.4 - Wed Oct 21, 2009 10:20 AM EDT
                                              Mark-702026

                                              Blearc --- HR 3400 DOES NOT set up a non-court system to resolve malpractice suits. Unless I missed it. Title V of the bill addresses tort reform, not a whole other system altogether.

                                              • 1 vote
                                              #19.5 - Wed Oct 21, 2009 10:58 AM EDT
                                              Kevin Burkholder

                                              Think about this. If you have a truly good case you will not lose.

                                              One would hope but I think that is somewhat idealistic. Very often it's the best lawyer that wins, not the quality of the case.

                                              If you have a good case all personal injury suits are taken on contingency.

                                              True.

                                              The judge will determine the resaonable attorney fees you owe the other side.

                                              What is reasonable? You may still loose your house when you end up owing "reasonable" attorney's fees that you can not afford.

                                              There way too many frivolous lawsuits...

                                              Completely agree. I'm not arguing for more or any frivolous lawsuits. I think the whole notion of "looser pays" comes from the insurance company's because they want to make people afraid to even file a law suite out of fear that they might loose. Adding the risk of financial ruin is not the solution.

                                              We can't live in a risk free bubble.

                                              I wouldn't argue against the ability of a doctor to counter-sue for legal expenses if a case is found to be frivolous. A blanket "looser pays" policy favors the wealthy over the less so.

                                              Here is another point. It is really not even a topic. Does anyone think that under the Government option you are going to be able to sue a doctor for malpractice?

                                              I haven't heard or read anything about this in one way or the other. There's no point in speculating until it's out there.

                                              If there is a government option doctors will not be able to get malpractice insurance against the government option.

                                              I don't se why not? Again, no point in speculating until it's out there.

                                              Private insurance will disappear. It will become too risking and not profitable.

                                              I think all insurance should be non-profit. That doesn't mean that individuals can't make a good salary, just that the corporation shouldn't be geared towards profits over their fundamental purpose.

                                              The idea of insurance is to share the risk and share the expense. We all put a little in just in case we need to take some out at some point. A for-profit insurance company is only taking some (a lot) out.

                                              However, making a transition from profit to non-profit would cause havoc on Wall Streat and to individual investors, retirement accounts, etc. I don't have an answer to that one.

                                              • 1 vote
                                              #19.6 - Thu Oct 22, 2009 6:56 AM EDT
                                              Kathy's Kid

                                              Does anyone think that under the Government option you are going to be able to sue a doctor for malpractice?

                                              Why not? Medicare and Medicaid are both government options, neither preclude patients from suing for malpractice.

                                                #19.7 - Thu Oct 22, 2009 8:13 AM EDT
                                                Reply
                                                Bill K. NY

                                                Let's hand over control of the justice system to government bureaucrats, that should fix everything.

                                                Don't worry, the anti-tort-reform senator Al Franken will pass an amendment to overturn it. He has already overturned tort reform for government contractors. The dem/lib/socialists justify it with some phony rape story. BUT They can't hide the fact that it is anti-tort-reform opening to door for more frivolous law suits.

                                                • 1 vote
                                                Reply#20 - Tue Oct 20, 2009 9:55 PM EDT
                                                Blearc

                                                The "anti-tort" reform amendment that you speak of is extremely narrow in scope and only applies to cases of sexual misconduct and sexual violence.

                                                Try again.

                                                • 1 vote
                                                #20.1 - Wed Oct 21, 2009 12:56 AM EDT
                                                Reply
                                                X_BAND QUIT PROQUO

                                                Obama has got an FACTUAL EXPERT IDEA ---------I REALLY LIKE EXPERTS rather than some JOE SHMO brown noser..........of a JURISDICTIONAL coersion---DOES POLITICS come to mind when YOUR NOT PRESIDING OFFICER of that JURISDICTION...................YEAH GET THE FACTS AND EXPERTS NOT THE political social political jury.......

                                                  Reply#21 - Tue Oct 20, 2009 10:31 PM EDT
                                                  T Bourlon

                                                  Why don't they just offer mediation and/or arbitration to a person, who maybe doesn't want to wait 5 years & run up huge legal bills trying to prove his case? We already have federal arbitration for federal court, it wouldn't take a whole lot of "funding" to implement this change, and a person's right to trial would be preserved.

                                                  A problem you have in medical malpractice is "dueling experts," and the layperson isn't likely to figure out good science from bad. So, having some kind of board of experts to sort thru this has merit, but I agree I wouldn't want to lose the right to a jury trial. Another possible malpractice fix would be a "loser pays" system, which should discourage frivilous lawsuits. Still don't know what to do about those dueling experts, though.

                                                    Reply#22 - Tue Oct 20, 2009 10:33 PM EDT
                                                    Jeff-802147

                                                    Everyone seems to think this is such an 'easy' fix, but it isn't. Some people say that we simply need to put a cap on the monetary damages that are rewarded in malpractice lawsuits and that will solve this problem... OK, so who decides what those caps are? Who decides how much money someone should receive if, for example, a person ends up an invalid due to a botched procedure? Surely enough to keep the victim's family living comfortably, right? So would the amount differ if the victim was a tax attorney as opposed to a garbage collector? The respective families would certainly have different ideas as to what amount of money is required to keep them living the lives they are accustom to. Juries typically are going to err on the side of the victim- awarding huge settlements, millions of dollars in a lot of cases, because they see the hospital as simply a faceless, soulless institution that should 'pay' for the harm they've done. The problem with that is in the end, that money has to come from somewhere... namely, you and me and everyone else, in the form of higher insurance premiums. Lest everyone forget, doctors are not miracle workers- they can't fix everything, and there will always be circumstances that end badly, and second guessing going on after the fact. "well, if the doctor had done this instead of that, my daughter would still be here today, so I am going to sue." People have an innate predisposition to lay blame for things that don't work out the way we hoped they would, and lawyers know this all too well when trying to manipulate the heartstrings of juries. There are of course cases where a doctor was indeed negligent, or careless, etc etc etc. But I don't think most everyday citizens are educated enough or savvy enough about medicine to always discern between good intentions with bad results and truly negligent behavior. Perhaps I'm wrong, but the sheer numbers of malpractice lawsuits that take place in this country every year suggest that we either have a staggering number of inept doctors, or we have a litigation problem... I am betting on the latter. And even if you concede that only about 30% of malpractice cases result in monetary damages, you have to consider the cost the physicians, hospitals and insurance companies incur by having to work the ever rising numbers of these suits (e.g. more money to lawyers, more money out of pocket from the population in premiums).

                                                    • 1 vote
                                                    Reply#23 - Tue Oct 20, 2009 10:43 PM EDT
                                                    Azzix

                                                    This sounds like a reasonable idea.

                                                    It all depends on how these "experts" are selected. If it were say, a random selection of medical practitioners like a jury pool, with procedures in place to guarantee transparency and remove conflicts of interest, I don't see why this wouldn't work.

                                                    As long as the proper controls are in place, I really don't see the downside. If the patient is still unhappy at the end of the process, they can still sue.

                                                    • 1 vote
                                                    Reply#24 - Tue Oct 20, 2009 11:52 PM EDT
                                                    Blearc

                                                    I find it very funny that the Obama haters are trying to pin this idea on Obama. Funny thing is I read it a couple months ago. I was outraged by the fact it was just setting up more beaucracy and more government spending when the decisions handed down by these new panels were non binding and had no power. There by causing more red tape and more government spending

                                                    Where did I read it? HR3400 the Republican health care reform bill.

                                                    • 2 votes
                                                    Reply#25 - Wed Oct 21, 2009 12:59 AM EDT
                                                    Mark-702026

                                                    HR 3400 - Does not spell out this plan. HR 3400 Title V addresses tort reform. In all fairness I may have missed please know which but HR 3400 would create such a system?

                                                    • 1 vote
                                                    #25.1 - Wed Oct 21, 2009 11:01 AM EDT
                                                    Mark-702026

                                                    Sorry, Type too quickly. If I missed the section of HR 3400 to which you refering please point the way for me.

                                                    • 1 vote
                                                    #25.2 - Wed Oct 21, 2009 11:57 AM EDT
                                                    Reply
                                                    network-gal

                                                    I recall filling out paperwork at the Dr office that I agreed to arbitration (just before filling out my health history). It was kind of spooky signing this before seeing the Dr for the first time.

                                                      Reply#26 - Wed Oct 21, 2009 1:35 AM EDT
                                                      Nicole-1272536

                                                      It took me a minute to absorb what you said. My concern would be why would the good Dr. be insisting I sign off on an agreement to arbitration unless he had something to hide or something in his record that would dictate his need to do so? Something is fishy with any doctor that would require such a thing before being seen.

                                                      If it were me, I would have walked right out of that office and found someone else.

                                                      • 1 vote
                                                      #26.1 - Wed Oct 21, 2009 10:14 PM EDT
                                                      Reply
                                                      Carol-99

                                                      I think that the focus of tort reform should be on limiting contingency fees, instead of limiting jury awards. These fees are usually between 33% and 40% and can even be as high as 50% for punitive damages. This is the incentive for unethical lawyers to pursue frivolous cases. Lawyers and their firms should receive reasonable fees for their work and be reimbursed for out of pocket expenses such as filing fees, copying medical records, focus groups, research, and other necessary procedures. There should also be limits to fees paid to experts and consultants. The bulk of any jury award should go to the plaintiff.

                                                      • 2 votes
                                                      Reply#27 - Wed Oct 21, 2009 1:50 AM EDT
                                                      Michael Murray

                                                      testing

                                                        Reply#28 - Wed Oct 21, 2009 2:14 AM EDT
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