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Path clears for House to OK compromise health bill

Fri Oct 30, 2009 4:51 PM EDT
business, politics, us, health-care, barack-obama, care, overhaul
Erica Werner, Associated Press
< PreviousNext >
showing 1 of 4 photos
<p>House Speaker Nancy Pelosi of Calif. speaks at a health care news conference on Capitol Hill in Washington, Thursday, Oct. 29, 2009. (AP Photo/Alex Brandon)</p>

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi of Calif. speaks at a health care news conference on Capitol Hill in Washington, Thursday, Oct. 29, 2009. (AP Photo/Alex Brandon)

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WASHINGTON — They may not like it, but many House liberals look ready to accept a compromise health care bill, putting Democratic leaders well on the way to delivering on President Barack Obama's call for overhaul.

After claiming for months they couldn't vote for a bill without the strongest possible government-run insurance option, liberals are putting aside their disappointment over the weaker version in the legislation for a historic chance to remake America's medical system.

"The current language is far weaker than what I would have preferred, and I think that is also true of the Progressive Caucus," Rep. Emanuel Cleaver, D-Mo., a member of the Congressional Black Caucus, said Friday. "But because I did not come up here to participate in gridlock and acrimony, I have told leadership that I am willing to compromise."

Obama privately told House liberals they should chalk up a win.

Leaders from the Progressive, Black, Hispanic and Asian-Pacific American caucuses met at the White House Thursday evening with Obama, who listened to their concerns and praised their efforts.

"He looked at us and he said, 'You guys ought to be walking around like you won because you brought back the public option,'" said Rep. Mike Honda, D-Calif. He was referring to the fact that prospects for any kind of government-run option looked grim after August's angry town halls.

House floor debate could begin late next week on the sweeping bill that extends coverage to 96 percent of Americans, imposes new requirements on individuals and employers to get insurance and provides subsidies for lower-income people.

The bill includes a new public insurance plan that would pay providers and hospitals rates negotiated by the Health and Human Services secretary. Liberals had pushed for payment rates to be tied to Medicare, which they argued would mean lower costs to consumers and the federal government. But moderates' concerns that those lower rates would hurt hospitals and other providers in their districts prevailed, even though House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., had backed the Medicare-based version.

In one bit of sobering news, the Congressional Budget Office estimated that only about 6 million people would sign up and that premiums for the government plan could be higher than for private coverage. The CBO says sicker people with higher costs probably would be attracted to the government plan. By comparison, 162 million people would remain covered through employer plans.

There are still concerns from moderates over the bill's cost — $1.055 trillion over 10 years — and long-term spending implications, and disputes to be resolved on how to block federal funding of abortions and prevent illegal immigrants from getting taxpayer-funded care. But the once-strident liberal opposition to the version of the public insurance option in the bill Pelosi released Thursday had all but disappeared 24 hours later.

It's the exact outcome Pelosi predicted in early August, infuriating progressives at the time.

"Are you asking me, 'Are the progressives going to take down universal, quality, affordable health care for all Americans?' I don't think so," Pelosi said then, laughing at the question.

Sure enough, they're not.

"I hate to say the speaker was right, but in retrospect I guess the progressives are going to be the good soldiers on this one, one more time," said Rep. Raul Grijalva, D-Ariz., a co-chair of the Progressive Caucus.

Grijalva said progressives weren't giving up and would push to offer their preferred public insurance option as an amendment. But House leaders have indicated they won't be allowing amendments to the bill.

House liberals fear what will happen to their bill's version of the government-run plan when time comes to merge it with whatever the Senate passes.

Sen. Harry Reid, D-Nev., said earlier this week that the Senate bill would have a new federal insurance plan with negotiated payment rates. Unlike the House bill, though, states could opt out of the plan. It's not clear the proposal commands enough votes in the Senate to survive, and it could be replaced by a standby system pushed by moderates that would not go into effect until it was clear individual states were experiencing a lack of competition among private companies.

Grijalva said liberals voiced grave concerns about both the opt-out and "trigger" approaches during Thursday's White House meeting, but that Obama didn't engage on those issues.

Sen. Olympia Snowe, R-Maine, has been the leading proponent of the "trigger" approach but she told The Associated Press in an interview Friday that she didn't plan to offer it as an amendment because it didn't have the votes to prevail. Snowe is the only Republican in Congress to have supported Democrats' health care legislation, voting "yes" in the Finance Committee. But she said Friday she couldn't support Reid's current version.

___

Associated Press Writers Ben Evans and Ricardo Alonso-Zaldivar in Washington, and Clarke Canfield in Portland, Maine, contributed to this report.

© 2009 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.
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pcbynature

An expose based on an e-mail illustrates the age-old problem of the a party's "brand", versus what the party actually does. In this case, the anti-war image of the Democratic Party has been damaged and the damage has been done for the sake of sel-interest, a charge that Democrats in 2006 and 2008 used to throw the Republicans out of power. The degree of corruption in the case of Defence contracts that is so widespread that it is reasonable to conclude that the Democratis Party is no better than the Republican Party withits current image as a sell-out party.

"Members of the House Appropriations Committee's defense subcommittee had steered targeted appropriations called earmarks to clients of a now-defunct lobbying firm — PMA — and received contributions from the firm and its clients.

The names of defense subcommittee chairman John Murtha, D-Pa., and Democratic members Jim Moran of Virginia and Peter Visclosky of Indiana had previously surfaced in connection with the inquiry.

The document adds the names of Norm Dicks, D-Wash.; Marcy Kaptur, D-Ohio; ranking subcommittee Republican C.W. Bill Young of Florida and Todd Tiahrt, R-Kan.

All four have received campaign contributions from PMA's political action committee and employees. Donation figures compiled by the nonpartisan Center for Responsive Politics show that:

_PMA's PAC and employees together were the single biggest source of political money to Dicks in each election cycle from 2003 through 2008 when donations are analyzed by the givers' employers. Dicks received roughly $89,500 from them during that period.

_The lobbying firm's PAC and staff also were Kaptur's top single source of donations by employer during the 2008 election cycle. Collectively, they gave her about $28,500 for the last election and $12,500 for the 2006 election, a total of about $41,000. They gave her nothing in 2003-04.

_Tiahrt raised roughly $19,750 from PMA's PAC and employees from 2003 through 2008.

_Young collected about $9,250 from the 2003-04 election cycle through last year.

The Pentagon budget panel had such an allure for Kaptur — who represents a Toledo-anchored Rust Belt district — that in 2005 she gave up her party's top seat on the agriculture subcommittee to claim a rare open seat on Murtha's subcommittee. She would have become one of a dozen Appropriations subcommittee chairmen had she stayed put."

http://www.newsvine.com/_news/2009/10/30/3444363-dozens-of-house-members-scrutinized-report-shows

From this perspective, the problem is related to the news about healthcare reform. Recent reports show that Reid cannot find 51 Democrats in the Senate to stop a Republican filibuster, much less vote for the "public option." Reid himself has accepted huge campaign contributions fro Big Pharma and the Insurance Lobbies. The same is true for Nancy Pelose, who, like Reid, also accepted huge contributions from from anti-reforn lobbies,and now says that she cannot assue the public that a "public option" will survive the House.

"House Speaker Nancy Pelosi was all smiles Thursday when she unveiled a health care bill that the House plans to vote on next week, but getting fractious Democrats to unite behind the 10-year, $1.055 trillion legislation may turn her smile upside down.

Pelosi needs 218 votes in a chamber that has 256 Democrats, but several liberal and moderate Democrats are already expressing a great deal of concern.

Liberals, including Rep. Lynn Woosley of California, want a stronger government-run health insurance plan with Uncle Sam picking up more of the tab, and they went to the White House Thursday night to voice their concerns about the bill to President Obama.

But fiscally conservative "Blue Dog" Democrats are concerned that the bill is going to bust the federal budget, and they have sent a letter to the Congressional Budget Office asking for more details on how it all adds up over 10 years and beyond."

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/10/30/pelosi-faces-hurdles-unite-democrats-health-care/

The "Blue Dogs," so far, have taken heat for having accepted contributions from the anti-reform lobbies, but most reports also give the Dogs credit for representing the opinions, if not the intrests, of their conservative constituents. By contrast, Pelosi and other leading Democrats have accepted money from anti-reform sources and these Democrats have liberal constituencies. Now these Democrats say they do not know if a "public option" can survive the Chambers of Congress that thet tehselves not only controll but controll with huge Deocratic constituencies.

The public now is viewing the Congress as being occupied by two corrupt parties that are governed by by only two forces: 1.) the desire for power over the other Party, so that 2.) the hunger for money can be satisfied by lobbies.

http://davidemeadows.newsvine.com/_news/2009/10/30/3444499-money-talks-and-so-do-politicians-when-making-excuses

  • 2 votes
Reply#1 - Fri Oct 30, 2009 5:46 PM EDT
Eric AlbertDeleted
Greg Johnson-900798

"Compromise health bill"? Compromise between who and who? Between the liberal dems and the not-so-liberal dems? Pelosi wouldn't even allow people who oppose her bill into the announcement ceremony. What a joke. Unfortunately, we may have to pay for this laugh for generations.

  • 5 votes
Reply#3 - Fri Oct 30, 2009 7:31 PM EDT
Buckeye Voter

Sucks to have views so out of favor with the American public that you're ignored, isn't it?

  • 6 votes
#3.1 - Fri Oct 30, 2009 8:56 PM EDT
MHammer

For all the "compromise" the Obama lies are transparent. Page 92, as written dictates that all Americans will have to go to Socialized healthcare. Throughout the bill it is evident that every procedure will be taxed. If you need a hearing aide, taxed for the cost. Hip replacement, taxed, pacemaker taxed. The panels to judge whether someone needs surgeries after a certain age, well they still exist in the bill. So tell me people, you call Insurance companies the problem. What I see are the ultra-Liberals led by Obama, Pelosi and Reid, which is un-constitutional, forcing Americans to purchase healthcare or pay penalties. Question, How many Americans are going to file lawsuits to stop this atrocious bill before the fundamental rights, as fought for by our forefathers, are forever taken away by these Ultra-Liberals as led by the President and his gang of Czars, Pelosi and Reid.

  • 3 votes
#3.2 - Fri Oct 30, 2009 9:10 PM EDT
Buckeye Voter

Here is page 92. Care to point out how you read this to mean, "all Americans will have to go to Socialized healthcare?"

1 (3) RESTRICTIONS ON PREMIUM INCREASES.—
2 The issuer cannot vary the percentage increase in
3 the premium for a risk group of enrollees in specific
4 grandfathered health insurance coverage without
5 changing the premium for all enrollees in the same
6 risk group at the same rate, as specified by the
7 Commissioner.
8 (b) GRACE PERIOD FOR CURRENT EMPLOYMENT9
BASED HEALTH PLANS.—
10 (1) GRACE PERIOD.—
11 (A) IN GENERAL.—The Commissioner
12 shall establish a grace period whereby, for plan
13 years beginning after the end of the 5-year pe14
riod beginning with Y1, an employment-based
15 health plan in operation as of the day before
16 the first day of Y1 must meet the same require17
ments as apply to a qualified health benefits
18 plan under section 201, including the essential
19 benefit package requirement under section 221.
20 (B) EXCEPTION FOR LIMITED BENEFITS
21 PLANS.—Subparagraph (A) shall not apply to
22 an employment-based health plan in which the
23 coverage consists only of one or more of the fol24
lowing:

Please don't make things up.

  • 5 votes
#3.3 - Sat Oct 31, 2009 12:08 AM EDT
btco

buckeye - They can't help it. Making bat @!$%# crazy lies stick is all they have left. NO ideas, NO clue, NO common decency, NO common sense, NOthing.......The Party of NO.

  • 3 votes
#3.4 - Sat Oct 31, 2009 8:45 AM EDT
pcbynature

Compromise health bill"? Compromise between who and who?

Exactly Greg. Between one party that protects the insurance(etc) lobbies and the other party that does the same. To make things dramatic so people think this is actually a democracy, a fake public bebate is made, complete w fake protesters.

  • 1 vote
#3.5 - Sat Oct 31, 2009 9:14 AM EDT
Buckeye Voter

Compromise between who and who?

A compromise between the only adults in the room. The Republicans lost any credibility they might have retained when they started spouting off about fictional "death panels."

Surely you don't want those @!$%#ing idiots involved in federal legislation.

They can't help it. Making bat @!$%# crazy lies stick is all they have left.

Please, Republicans, don't come here and lie. It wastes our time and dilutes the discussion. All you do is drown out the better counterpoints and make other Republicans look bad.

  • 3 votes
#3.6 - Sat Oct 31, 2009 12:06 PM EDT
Par4TheCourse

Affordable Health Care for America Act (H.R. 3962).

http://www.speaker.gov/newsroom/legislation?id=0327

  • 3 votes
#3.7 - Sat Oct 31, 2009 12:37 PM EDT
Greg Johnson-900798

Stay tuned Buckeye - there's a big "I told you so" coming your way real soon.

BTW - Your team sucks this year, Go Hawkeyes!

    #3.8 - Mon Nov 2, 2009 10:29 AM EST
    Reply
    knight-403465

    This not reform. It is a gift to the insurance companies. Prices will continue to rise as they have in the past. No competition. The rates with the so called government insurance plan may be more than private insurance? How is that affordable? The cost curve is not lowered. Everybody cross you fingers cause if this passes that is all you will have. All the hoopla for nothing. The tea parties and glen won? Time to get busy and get to work.

    This bill is written by lobbyists and our congress people are complicit. The lobbyists and the influence money of large corporations has convinced our representatives what they, the insurance companies think is best. Money talks and Americans can walk.

    • 6 votes
    Reply#4 - Fri Oct 30, 2009 7:41 PM EDT
    2scentsworth

    AGREED!!!!

    Fix what is BROKEN! And THEN initiate additional programs!

    • 5 votes
    #4.1 - Fri Oct 30, 2009 7:55 PM EDT
    knight-403465

    If you are rich it is ok. The whole system is broken. If you can afford it you're fine if you're not rich do you think you are going to be paying more for health insurance? Is the price of gasoline going up? People who have insurance through their work have a large portion of their insurance premium paid for while others have to pay all of theirs. Many people have not had a raise on their job (while the top 5% make lots more) because the company is paying that money for your insurance increases. Goodbye to raises. Reform has been needed and tried for decades (30 years) and the insurance lobyyists have killed it everytime. This bill fixes just enough to get the congress people reelected so they can do what the lobbyists give them millions of dollars to do.

    Do you want to let lobbyists buy the votes of the US Congress? That is exactly what will happen if we let it (it has been going on in many areas for many years). I personally don't think that large corporations or unions should be able to donate large amounts of money and have fund raisers to help elect the representatives of the United States. Do our representatives in Washington work for the people or for big business and special interests. The special interest and big money was a big cause of this recession, but yet they are doing fine.

    Do we want to let lobbyists and special interest write the laws of the United States?

    • 4 votes
    #4.2 - Fri Oct 30, 2009 8:47 PM EDT
    pcbynature

    This not reform. It is a gift to the insurance companies.

    Not just them. Remember the deal with Big Pharma?

    • 2 votes
    #4.3 - Sat Oct 31, 2009 9:16 AM EDT
    Reply
    2scentsworth

    This is THE ultimate violation of the Constitution! of the United States of America!!

    WHERE in the Constitution does it give those that represent US (citizens of the United States of America) the RIGHT to delegate this action???

    I am proposing a class action suit to negate this action, based on the Constitution of the United States of America!

    • 5 votes
    Reply#5 - Fri Oct 30, 2009 8:35 PM EDT
    Hope-882663

    Good Luck

      #5.1 - Fri Oct 30, 2009 9:04 PM EDT
      Reply
      Par4TheCourse

      http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c111:H.R.3200:

      • 1 vote
      Reply#6 - Fri Oct 30, 2009 8:58 PM EDT
      pcbynature

      http://www.gpoaccess.gov/bills/glossary.html

        #6.1 - Sat Oct 31, 2009 9:21 AM EDT
        Reply
        Hope-882663

        "There are still concerns from moderates over the bill's cost — $1.055 trillion over 10 years — and long-term spending implications, and disputes to be resolved on how to block federal funding of abortions and prevent illegal immigrants from getting taxpayer-funded care

        "In one bit of sobering news, the Congressional Budget Office estimated that only about 6..." million people would sign up and that premiums for the government plan could be higher than for private coverage.."

        Additional taxes to pay higher premiums....How good does that look?

        • 1 vote
        Reply#7 - Fri Oct 30, 2009 9:00 PM EDT
        La'el

        My open letter to Democrats in Congress...

        How dare you support taking away my health care options (page 92 if you haven't read the bill)? If you vote yes on this "Pelosi Health Care Bill," I will work (tirelessly) to ensure you are not reelected. And you feel you're seats are safe, think again. It's time those of us who work and pay our bills are represented in the Congress; if you're not able, or unwilling to do so, we will vote you out next year (count on it).

        • 3 votes
        Reply#8 - Fri Oct 30, 2009 9:39 PM EDT
        AgeOfReason

        Please keep the Progressive Fire Lit and don't let the fact we aren't there yet get you down, look at how far we've come in just two elections the last 4 years. It takes 3 election cycles to even get to all the US Senate elections and the Democrats have gained in the last two. Now that we've got Democrat majoraties in the House of Reps and the Senate, let's focus on getting more progressive Democrats - and more Democrats in general. Hey, we can even support more moderate Republicans in the Primaries if we want to.

        The point is, let's stay in the game and finish it. Don't give up because you're only at the 50 yard line, keep pushing all the way to a touch down!

        You worry about the Republicans taking back control the next two election cycles and ruining any progress we've made. Well, that's what will happen if we don't keep our eye on the prize, be happy with our amazing progress, and keep fighting for more ground.

        What if we kept the Revolution Alive and got more Progressive Democrats in the next 4 years? In 4 years instead of a watered down public option, or nothing at all if the Republicans take back control, what if we kept pushing through this and got single payer and sent those Health Insurance Companies into the history books?

        In foot ball do they go for a hail Mary on the first play and quit if it doesn't work out?

        This is a Democracy and it takes a continued movement to make change. Lets have this Civics Lesson and lets keep fighting. We've got the momentum, let's not get greedy or impatient or depressed and loose it. We are the only one's who can defeat us because us lefties are right on the issues!

        Let's look at this health care proposal as a vicotory for Progressives and then make it better in the next 4 years. Other things need to get better too such as Obama's other two major priorities Energy and Education. Let's don't fumble the ball now! Settle for a field goal now if it's what we can get then come back for the touchdown after a good defensive stand! Thats how we play this game, right?

        Just because we aren't getting everything we want we shouldn't loose sight of how far we've come the past 4 years when the Republican version of health care was Dick Cheney's torture Chambers. Are we going to give up and let the war mongers and their war profiteers back in? Are we as short sighted as the Corporate CEO's who make money today by ruining the economy tomorrow?

        We must be better than that and make this a lesson in Civics to take what we can get now and keep coming back for more. The forces of darkness have not rested in our history so neither must we.

        Eternal Vigilance, my friend, is the price of our Democracy and the secret to our victory, our victories. We loose our democracy when we fail to participate in it.

        "If we are together nothing is impossible. If we are divided all will fail." --Winston Churchill

        • 2 votes
        Reply#9 - Fri Oct 30, 2009 10:04 PM EDT
        AgeOfReason

        What freedom are we fighting for? Freedom for corporate profits or freedom for the people?

        Economic Freedom is money in your pocket and being healthy enough to spend it.

        In civilized countries people have the freedom to pay higher taxes and have the freedom of enjoying the benifits of reasonable policies that enhance personal freedom such as higher wages (here we have had tax cuts but our wages have decreased), tax-payerfuned education through college (doctors in America leave college with a 250,000 dollar debt), health care coverage (in America we pay collectively twice as much as other civilized countries, and insurance is a collectie activity wether it be private or public, but we don't cover everyone like other civilized countries, we don't have as good of health outcomes and 78% of those who go bankrupt due to medical bills had insurance).

        You may think you have health care insurance and are saving for your childrens college or your own retirement until god forbit you get cancer... then its gone.

        It is simply not human or even reasonable to have a system where we pay twice as much just so corporations can profit by denying people health care coverage.

        What do you want? Freedom for the robber barrons or freedom for the people?

        I choose we the people and do work for a more perfect union insuring the welfare of all our inhabitants.

        I hear talk of personal responsibility, but how can the average person be responsible for hundreds of thousands or millions of dollars in health care costs?

        Our Government has a social responsibility, and our greatest terrorist threat is disease.

        Health Insurance companies do not provide health care, they are simply a public utility and at present a very inefficient an expensive one. All they do is handle the money and skim 30% off the top. Since when is price gouging an American Value?

        • 1 vote
        Reply#10 - Fri Oct 30, 2009 10:18 PM EDT
        black spider

        You my friend, are talking like a pure Marxist, whether or not your silly pathetic public education system was sharp enough to allow you to make such distinctions.

        Case in point: you mention "personal responsibility". DO YOU HAVE ANY IDEA WHAT THAT MEANS? Seriously, I doubt it. People make choices.I get the idear that you believe the whole world should shut down and treat you when you could have avoided the problem. If this is not blatant self-centered nanny-state-ism, tell me what is?

        secondly, you say insurance companies are inefficient compared to Chi Town Welfare Politics. That is so silly. Private industry always does things more efficiently.

        Oh, btw, health insurance companies make little in profits compared to TRIAL LOYAHS, your heroes who bankrupted the system.

        You have no iota of any sort of understanding about anything in this debate. I think you best go put on a Bozo the Clown outfit and join the drunken masses on their little Halloween Parties.

        • 2 votes
        #10.1 - Fri Oct 30, 2009 11:12 PM EDT
        jim watson-705885

        government controled health care is fascistĀ  to say the leased.

        • 1 vote
        #10.2 - Sun Nov 1, 2009 5:03 PM EST
        Reply
        black spider

        You liberal fools want to take over 16, soon to be 20% of the economy, without one single vote from the opposition party?

        If this is blatant COMMUNISM.... THEN YOU TELL ME WHAT THE whale blubber IT IS?

        The Demo-Marxist Health Care Bill is nothing but an invasion of the private interaction between you, your doctor and your wallet. They want to collect all your private information, then use it for WHO KNOWS WHAT LATER .....

        think about it.... you are 24, born in 1985. You will have the US govt running your life for another 65 years? Is that what you folks in the Millenium Gen who voted big time for the KENYAN-BORN MESSIAH? Next time you vote, vote for the lessor of the two evils.

        The notion that people will not receive the same health care is not only real, but they even admit it.

        Oh, and since there are 45 million uninsured, most of them by will, some due to bad choices they made, some due to a young age, why are they bragging about covering 33 million.

        That leaves 12 million without coverage. I guess leaving 12 million w/o coverage is a "VICTORY".... blah blah blah.....

        • 5 votes
        Reply#11 - Fri Oct 30, 2009 11:03 PM EDT
        YouLie-1337884Deleted
        Reply
        Dogmeat5569

        NO, I don't Like House LIBERAL DEMOCRATS, that are raising the taxes of the American Taxpayers! What is seeing my taxes go up so wonderful about? Oh, the Mid-Term Elections are coming soon, if President Obama doesn't cancel them for what ever reason!

        • 2 votes
        Reply#12 - Fri Oct 30, 2009 11:39 PM EDT
        mudfloper

        Dems will sell us out, Republicans never did care, and the Lieberman's go where they think it's safe, not for the good of the people.

        I've had it will all this. Vote them all out if I don't get to start the new year with affordable insurance. The only one I would keep is the newbie Grayson....no one else does anything more than insure my death.

        Thank you America! I followed the rules, didn't break the law. Worked and scrimped and saved and in the end

        Have to bend over and take it for the rich and corporations

        I'm outa this heck hole of a county ASAP

          Reply#13 - Fri Oct 30, 2009 11:45 PM EDT
          Bill Reese

          "The "Blue Dogs," so far, have taken heat for having accepted contributions from the anti-reform lobbies, but most reports also give the Dogs credit for representing the opinions, if not the intrests, of their conservative constituents." What idiot wrote this? "Representing opinions if not the interest" The AP is still following the Obama madness. One question to America, which person is the most insane out of the three, Obama, Pelosi, or Reid.

          I think the Democrats that vote for this bill will soon be looking for a new home, I hope not with our government money.

          Bill Reese

            Reply#14 - Sat Oct 31, 2009 12:19 AM EDT
            pcbynature

            What idiot wrote this? "Representing opinions if not the interest"

            (Read below, I missed the 'reply button'!)

              #14.1 - Sat Oct 31, 2009 9:25 AM EDT
              Reply
              pcbynature

              Mr. Bill

              I wrote it. The Blue Dogs represent citizens in my state, for example, who have low incomes, no insurance, and they cost more to treat in the ER than they would under the proposed "pblic option."

              Dave

              • 1 vote
              Reply#15 - Sat Oct 31, 2009 9:24 AM EDT
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