Buses, subways halted by Philly transit strike

• It was inconsiderate of the union to call the strike at 3am, when people are either asleep or already at work, for those who work overnight.

Which is exactly what they intended. To irritate, annoy, piss off, and anger as many as possible. That is what a strike is supposed to do. Make the situation so untenable that management has to cave in to the demands.

• The offer to the workers was very reasonable and they are just being plain greedy right now but memories are long in this city and Septa is going to lose some riders for sure this time.

I agree completely especially in these times, and they are lucky enough to have a decent paying job. In my opinion they should get back to work and be grateful. But there may be other issues we are not even hearing about, that deserve to be fought against. Only time will tell. One thing for sure if the unions win, fares will go up and customer service will likely be cut back. Good luck Philly.

Agreed about the greedy part. And a strike that can irritate people can have a backlash. Instead of people being pissed off at the management, they can be pissed off at the strikers.

I forget what the company was, but like a year ago, a bunch of employees went on strike, demanding higher pay. In this kind of economy, come on. You know what happened? They were all fired and replaced by people will to do the work.

I have already told my workplace that if they are doing layoffs, I would be willing to work less hours. I can't afford to quit and I can't afford to be laid off. There is NO jobs around me except "Do you want fries with that?"

PVT,

This time around its not management that people are going to be griping with the offer made to them was a very good one , they are being greedy.

Dumb-asses.

They should feel lucky they have a job at all. They have no right to hold entire communities hostage like this.

So they want to squeeze more from the ridership who are barely hanging on and skimping to make ends meet? And they're already making $52,000 a year? Have they looked around the country lately?

Screw'em. Cross the lines and let them have a taste of what it's like to skimp to get by.

I should add that I am not anti-union; they have their place. But this is just too mich.

I agree, Jim. There are some services that are just to vital to allow the employees to strike.

A few years ago, the MUNI (San Francisco transit system) contract was up and there was some worry that they would strike, which would pretty much close down the city.

I remember there was a transit strike in NY a few years back around Thanksgiving or Christmas season. All I said was "Brilliant! Let these idiots protest, causing people not to go shopping for the season (it was a bad year Christmas shopping-wise), spend money to help increase businesses and maybe have people get fired by their employers because they were unable to get a way to go to work because of the transit strike. Yeah, this will help everyone.. . ."

Agree. 10% unemployment and they're striking? I would love to see SEPTA put out job openings as I'm sure there are plenty of qualified people around Philadelphia and across the country who would gladly take one of those positions. It wouldn't hurt my feelings one bit if the striker's just worked their last day in those jobs and had to start looking elsewhere.

It's actually higher than 10% if you count the unemployed who ran out of benefits. Just pointing that out.

It wouldn't hurt my feelings one bit if the striker's just worked their last day in those jobs and had to start looking elsewhere.

At a much lower salary. Let them feel the reality of the economy and wages.

I hear there is close to 10% unemployment and rising, maybe somebody else would rather work if these people do not wish to.

I seeee...12 to 30 million illegals...will that satisfy you?

5$ a day good enough for you?

Though part of me agrees with you.... another part of me realizes that your statement is a kin to slave labor here in the U.S. If companies have that attitude we'll all be working for $2 a day. Of course the reality is that is what America is heading for anyway.

Do the numbers, and by the way jbdaad, no insinuation in the article was made about asking for the current transit workers to lower they hourly wage to a lessor amount, only that the 4% increase was not an option.

Someone it seems has a problem with illegals as most of us do, but do not go off of thread to discuss it when it is not part of the problem as discussed in the article.

$52,000/year makes it $1000/week and if there is a 40 hr work week then that equates out to an hourly wage of $25/hour which in these times seem decent enough. Now if one wants to argue that the wage would not allow a family of four to live above the poverty level, then one would suggest as is the norm, for the spouse to also have a job, adding to the income of the family.

Again, not a good time for a "strike" and walkout.....!!! And great fodder for those old Republicans who will tout the greed of the union people at a time of crisis in our economy for all too many and the cities in which they live!

And that is why I support Open Shop and choose to live in a right-to-work state.

TL....I have heard the term Open Shop before but do not know much about it. Can you give me some details on it please?

Many people like to deal in hyperbole, calling voluntary employment slave labor for instance if it isn't at a wage you prefer. For real slaves, which still exist, that is one hell of an insult - they can't picket they can't do anything. Limiting transit workers to small raises above cost of living is no more slave labor than bottle rockets are LEO delivery devices.

The largest impediment to wages is competition, the largest impediment to competition is government. If you want higher wages instead of asking for minimum wage increases you'd be better off asking government to quit protecting favored corporations with tax packages, regulatory signoffs, etc. Saying everybody would earn $2 without violent union action is simply fear mongering at it's dumbest.

Open shop means unions can't compel you with violence to pay their dues in order to work somewhere. Closed shop means join the union, pay your protection money, or no job. This abuse of tax authority is actually backed up with law in some misbegotten areas. Right to work states are states which do not allow organized crime to force money from people in exchange for allowing them to work - nobody can force union membership involuntarily.

Basically, open shop workplaces require neither membership in a union nor payment or contribution to a workers fund if you aren't a union member.

I wasn't implying slave labor is there now... but if the corporations in this country had their way they would want Americans to work for $2 a day. If you think for a minute that SEPTA would hire new employees at 50,000 a year you are not living in reality. I would bet $30,000.

Brian: Keep in mind that competition is the driving force of commerce. If, as you say, corporations would want Americans to work for $2/day (I recognize the exaggeration in your statement), all that has to happen is for one company to best its rivals in terms of production and quality to take the lion's share of profits for any particular product. That requires good employees. To get and retain good employees, an employer must be attractive - good working environment and culture, benefits, and good wages. When any of those aspects are lacking, production suffers. Corporations want numbers in the black and constantly having to hire replacement employees costs in terms of money and time.

But its election day so thats not good either and it was 3am when they decided to strike so waiting until after the World Series isnt really a consolation prize for people who need to get places in this city.

Yeah my mom has medical issues and rely on public transportation to go get her medication and she cannot go without for too long. I am really pissed. These inconsiderate bastards should be lucky to have a damn job. Now I am worried for those who really need public transportation to get around.

I am blessed to have options, I can either ride in to work in the morning with my boyfriend or take the regional rails, not everybody is that fortunate.

Hell! At 52 grand a year and minimal pension payments, you can send me an application form, and i will take a 10% cut.

Agreed. Why pay more?

DonkeyRidder: If you mean by outsourcing, giving the job to a non citizen, or one not living in this country..... sorry, that is out of the question1

Union slug jobs? Just because someone belongs to a Union, a Union or group which is comprised of those with commonality of work, does not mean the person is a slug. Now, if you wish to define a slug as someone who moves as if dead lice were following off of them as my father would say, perhaps and in some cases there are those who work at those speeds.

The history of Unions in this country can be looked upon with pride and disdain. Unions have had their place in advancing the workers plight and conditions under which they work, yet they also have been the engine of want, greed, slackers, conscription, and strong arming of business.

I just find it hard to understand the plight of the members at a time when all too many are suffering and in need of a job.... Just because you can, does not mean you should!

Also, not sure that every union member is in fact a democrat! A large percent for sure, but there may be a few upstarts in the group who don't see eye to eye on a political basis with the rest or with union management.

Unions are like miniature liberal governments, invariably corrupt, mean, and on average, dumb. Unions kill jobs or drive those that can be moved overseas. Their weapon is the threat and sometimes the use of harm. Collective bargaining is a joke. It is collective thuggery that unions use against other Americans.

Also, not sure that every union member is in fact a democrat! A large percent for sure, but there may be a few upstarts in the group who don't see eye to eye on a political basis with the rest or with union management.

Another reason unions should go. Unions force disagreeing members to betray their principles in order to get or keep their job. Unions take dues for political activities, undermining the individual's political effects.

I can partially agree with donkey (except for the liberal part). Unions are good. . .when they are NEEDED. Nowadays, though, I keep hearing from the really greedy ones.

Here's an example about how much the Unions care about their members: In RI, earlier this year, the governor wanted to have a few days (I think it was 12 days) of shutdown. Basically, state workers don't work on that day, in order for the state to save money. the days were just randomly placed, so there weren't 2 days of the shutdown in one week. The unions went nuts. They negotiated for weeks, and the governor even dropped it down to 8 days. Nope, the unions didn't want any of that. There was a paycut mentioned. Nope, unions didn't want that, either.

So, here's the other option: Lay off 1,000 state workers. Oh, I'm sure the union members would like that in this kind of economy. And scary thing is, the unions were hesitant to give an answer to this option. They then began to negotiate again with the governor.

What they agreed to (if anything), I don't know. But that showed me how greedy they are that they were unwilling to work with the governor.

I know that the MUNI (transit) union in San Francisco negotiated that their employees, even the bus drivers, can just not show up to work several times a year. No need to even call in, they can simply not show up.

TheJonesGirl, do we have an issue upon which we agree? I think you're turning conservative and good for you!!!

Unions have done, and still do, much good. But there are times when they act in a less than stellar manner--and I think that there are unions whose members provide a service so vital, like mass transit, that they should be exempt from being able to strike. Picket in their off hours, sure.

But I also think that being a bus driver is a pretty miserable job--they can't use the restroom when needed and they put up with a lot of abuse. Is it worth $52K per year? Probably not.

Well we tangentially agree. You're not going to conjure up my mother again, are you?

I know of no good unions have done that wouldn't have occurred without them. I know of great bad they've done and continue to do.

Under the premise of a "fair days wage for a fair days work" the Unions of yesterday made a point of addressing the needs of those who worked against the profit motives of those with ownership. With collective bargaining came benefits for both companies and workers, yet I will agree that in many cases the workers had owners over a barrel.

In some cases with the United Auto Workers, the idling of plant and equipment cause huge dents in the profits of car manufactures, but the bean counters at the company also knew the bottom line in discussions and the cost to the idle worker. Many concessions led to not what was good for us as consumers, but often what was a negotiated agreement which benefited plant and worker alike. The long term cost to the plant was inability to bring new tooling to the facility, and new innovative styling to the cars Detroit was trying to get John Q. Public to purchase. The ultimate result was the slow demise of our manufacturing sector in automobiles, the closing of plants, the decay of cities, etc....

Both Unions and Corporate heads who sought the short term solution for short term profit, and greed by all, including the Unions has brought many of our industries to the existing position all are in.

And, by the way, Unions are not like miniature liberal governments, for anyone who has belonged to a Union, will tell you, it is not liberal, it is their way or the highway, seems more like the Conservative Republican Party to me... one where you either fall in line lockstep with their principles or you are out... Liberal thinking of the Democrats has been their faults, for all are given the right to speak out on any and all subjects without backlash.

Liberal thinking of the Democrats has been their faults, for all are given the right to speak out on any and all subjects without backlash.

Yeah, the Obama/Reid/Pelosi government really listened to the tea-baggers. And tell FoxNews it is okay to speak out without a backlash. It has been history that liberal governments are mass murderers of their dissenting and must use brute force to remain in power, just like unions. Any word on where Jimmy Hoffa is residing?

Yeah, the Obama/Reid/Pelosi government really listened to the tea-baggers.

How much did the Bush/Cheney government listen to the anti-war protesters?

And tell FoxNews it is okay to speak out without a backlash.

There is no right to not have your statements questioned, no right to not have a backlash and be questioned.

Donkeyridder: Wow, do you have some issues.... So, relate to me the mass murders that have happened during liberal administrations???

And, even though you did not get my drift, it was about and within the Democratic Party of which I spoke... their biggest downfall is their lack of steadfastness of a solid platform as opposed to the Republican Party and their stated causes... The Democrats are all too willing to have any and all causes, which in turn even makes some of them work against one another.

Jimmy Hoffa most likely got his just rewards for having ties to the underworld and then not complying with them, or becoming too much of a target by the feds.

So, DonkeyRidder, why the anger, the hate? What is your real agenda which exposes the passions you so ably demonstrate. I get it by your name you want to rid the world of the donkeys or democrats, wow.... what really happened to you personally to have such vengeance against an entire party?

And, while explaining your anger toward Democrats, explain the opposite shown by your adulation of whatever the Republicans do, and your comments about Beck who loves to speak in innuendo and half truths....

By the way, former Republican of 30 years, did my duty to our service, small businessman, well educated and living well. So don't lash out with your usual rehtoric, take the time for all of us to know you and your reasons for such strong emotions.

Mao Tse Tung, Josef Stalin, and Fidel Castro were liberals who held the same views as Obama and today's Democrat party, where equal outcomes, redistribution of wealth, punishment of the successful, government ownership and/or administration of businesses, means of production, and transportation, are their common goals. That is precisely why I actively oppose liberals and Democrats, their final destination is known and it is not attractive. And if you don't know that those liberals killed millions upon millions of their political opponents with murder and starvation, you need a history lesson beyond the scope of this discussion board.

And to tie it together, most of those striking are liberal Democrats using their brute force to get their way, recklessly impeding the lives of those they were hired to serve. Liberals always turn on each other as they realize their only way up is to put someone else down in liberal world.

You've played the hate card. Why not throw out the race card, too? My opposition derives from a love of freedom and liberty. Liberals are the ones motivated by negativity and psychopathological negative emotions, always seeking ways to punish the wealthy and successful while ingratiating themselves with the looted booty, at least those wealthy not part of the ruling elite liberal party.

DondeyRidder: Nice try, but give me any, that would be any published story where the names of Mao, Stalin and or Castro were ever looked upon as being liberals....

You are seriously troubled... again, hard to pick up the real reasons for the purposed passions which you do exhibit as anger and hate in other threads I have read you reply to.....

I just wonder what makes a person like you tick.... and I don't know what History books you have been reading, but someone needs new books!

No need to play race card, it has been suggested in other threads I have read of you...

I love it.... brute force....recklessly impeding.... motivated by negativity(that would be the party of "No" my friend) punish the wealthy and successful??? How asking for closing of tax loopholes(oil depletion and depreciation which allow for close to 90% percent write off of oil wells in the first year), and then there is that looted booty(must be the pirates) of which you speak.... motivated by negativity and physchopathological negative emotions(that was a big one not sure it is a real word but, good for you) possibly need to break that one down to see if one could be all of that, but to think all liberals are motivated by such a strong passionate emotion, well!

Ok, plain and simple, it seems, unlike others most of the drabble coming from your keyboard is bias, bigoted crap... so I will defer, like so many of the others on other threads, to just list you as persona non gratis....

I am so sorry someone like you is really out there, we all can differ, but the obvious bias, hate and bigotry with counter productive elements of thought are just too much. I worry that there may be more like you, so indifferent to others, so piqued in your passion of anger.... wow!

The idiots who are striking are just that idots, led by a diminishing union membership without concern for others.... Read some of your thoughts, you have no concern for others also....only your own opinion!

Why would you need a reference to determine if Stalin, Mao, and Castro were liberals? They were for big government controlling every aspect of the people's lives and seeking that utopia where everyone works the same and everyone gets the same reward. Conservatives are for small government and maximal personal freedom and liberty. Those murderous dictator political philosophies fall into the liberal end of the spectrum.

Conservatives are for small government and maximal personal freedom and liberty.

Not true. Libertarians hold that philosophy, not necessarily "conservatives." Conservatives gave us the Patriot Act, which has curtailed and infringed on our civil liberties more so than any other document in our history.

Conservatives did not give us the Patriot Act. We haven't had a conservative President since Reagan and no conservative Congress since 1996. You are mistaking conservatives for Republicans. Libertarians deviate from conservatives usually on drug legalization and national defense issues, but many conservatives are still Libertarians. In fact, if the libertarians ever got a decent candidate with a chance of winning, I'd be glad to vote libertarian.

LOL. I just pictured an ex-soldier as a busdriver, not taking any crap from some guy who attacks him. Public transportation can be a dangerous job, you have to admit that.

Driving a truck in Iraq with people shooting at you, while you keep a lookout for roadside bombs, is perfect training for a big city bus driver. All they would have to learn is where the good doughnut shops are and the phone number to call in sick during the World series.

I bet there are a lot of unemployed ex-soldiers who would make good bus drivers.

Excellent thinking!

Fire them all! I bet they could fill all 5000 jobs in 2 weeks, at $40000 a year.

As viscerally appealing as that is, they can't. Train operators in particular require more than two weeks' training to make sure that you don't splatter your passengers all over the railway. They also need criminal background checks and drug screening.

They should have priority for the jobs in the first place and not just there...anytown USA if they are half way qualified. We own our vets this priory. Would that be a form of affirmative action?

I am reminded of Lincoln's response when Ben Wade came to him to have McClellan replaced. Lincoln asked him, and replace him with who? Wade's response was "Anyone!" To which Abe replied, "you see Ben, that's the difference between you and me. You can call for anyone, but I must have someone."

Yes... fire them all so SEPTA can work like WalMart does and hire all new employees at $25,000 a year with no health benefits. It would be easy to find people to take that deal in this economy. Who cares about adding more poor folk to the states debt roles...

Unions may not be the answer anymore, but blanket firing all of these workers won't solve a whole lot either.

union membership is going down every year because more and more people are realizing how the unions are destroying the economy. In this economy, these greedy morons should be thankful they are even working.

They are skilled. Trained in using specific equipment and charged with keeping thousands of people safe on their commutes and on the roads.

True, Jones, but seeing as how we had a bunch of pilots either being drunk or checking their laptops instead of paying attention, drunk or texting while driving a bus or a train. . .

People like these just prove that anyone can be skilled and still be a danger to their passengers.

Also, remember Reagon and the air traffic controller strike? A bunch of skilled people went on strike and he threatened to fire them if they didn't return to work. He fired 11,000 workers and they were easily replaced.