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Scarborough: Economy will decide elections

Tue Nov 3, 2009 5:02 AM EST
politics, barack-obama, jersey, only-on-msnbc-com, new-york, race, new-jersey, virginia, morning-joe, doug-hoffman
msnbc.com News — Joe Scarborough, msnbc.com - Only on msnbc.com
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— Tuesday night's election results will be read, discussed and interpreted for weeks to come. But even before the first vote is counted, we can probably draw some conclusions from those races.

Virginia
A big Republican win in Virginia will not be an earth mover, but instead confirm that the home of Thomas Jefferson and Robert E. Lee is a toss-up state that still swings Republican. A Bob McDonnell victory will be seen by most in the media as reflecting a rising discomfort with the explosive growth of Washington, but also, perhaps more importantly, the weakness of the Democratic candidate.

While a Virginia loss may be easily explained away by Democrats, a New Jersey loss will not.

New Jersey
Unlike the Virginia governor's race, the weakest candidate in the race for the Garden State's top job is a Republican. Chris Christie could never be confused with a first-tier candidate, but the overweight former prosecutor may soon be moving his bulky frame into the governor's mansion in Trenton.

Every Democratic consultant I've talked to over the past few days has let loose involuntary groans every time they talked about this race. Many Democrats began quietly predicting the collapse of the independent candidate at the end of last week and assumed that factor would help Christie.

Last minute polls suggest they may be right.

Still, I believe the Democrats' turnout operation should keep this race tight all night. If the race is instead a blowout, that can only be bad news for the Democrats.

And for those second guessing the president's active involvement in Corzine's race, the fact is that Barack Obama had no choice but to jump head first into the Jersey fight. All the president's men know that a Republican sweep in New Jersey and Virginia will strike fear in the hearts of those swing state Democrats who now hold the future of health care in their sweaty moderate hands.

That reality may upset progressive Democrats but it is the reality that confronts the Obama White House tonight.

New York 23
While the twists and turns in Virginia and New Jersey have been fascinating to follow over the past few months, no race has been as entertaining as the special election for New York's 23rd congressional district.

Frank Rich used his Sunday column to suggest that conservatives' success in that district would signal the rise of Stalinism in American politics.

Other press reports have boiled the race down to a civil war over abortion and gay marriage.

And for their part, some conservatives have declared the rise of Doug Hoffman as an indictment of Barack Obama.

But all of these interpretations miss the bigger point.

Hoffman's ascendancy in NY-23 is less about Barack Obama than it is about a decade of bloated and corrupt Republican leadership in Washington, D.C. This race gave the same conservatives who helped drive Ronald Reagan's victory and the 1994 Republican Revolution something to cheer about for the first time in a long time. It also gave them an opportunity to stick it to an incompetent GOP Establishment.

This was, after all, same political party that promised to balance budgets in the 1990s, but then turned around and produced record deficits a over the next ten years.

And those same Republican leaders who called for military restraint and a focused foreign policy while Bill Clinton was president then spent the next decade promising to rid the world of tyranny by exporting democracy across the globe.

For years GOP politicians would come on my set in Washington and quietly grouse about the political disaster that was George W. Bush. But then the red light on the camera would then come on and they would meekly fall in line. New York 23 suggests that sorry chapter may be coming to an end.

Who knows? Maybe the conservative movement is finally coming to terms with a lesson I learned long ago: that Republican political leaders can't be trusted any more than Democratic party leaders. After all, party bosses of all persuasions pledge loyalties to the advancement of their own party instead of your principles.

It took the departure of George Bush and the continued bungling of GOP leaders to finally stir up the sufficient amount of courage for small government conservatives to take on the Republican establishment.

The press will continue to make this race about abortion, gay marriage and Sarah Palin, but the fact is that Doug Hoffman has focused on his opponents' positions on the stimulus package, card check and higher taxes.

If you're a progressive, don't blame this race's outcome on Focus on the Family. Responsibility rests instead on Club for Growth. The races in upstate New York as well as Virginia and New Jersey will be decided on one issue: the economy.

Here are my predictions a little more than 24 hours before the polls close:

Virginia — Bob McDonnell by 10+

New Jersey — Chris Christie by 1

New York 23 — Doug Hoffman by 7

After calling me all sorts of unseemly names for my backward thinking and knuckle-dragging ways, comment below and give me your predictions. I'd love to see what you think. I'm especially curious about what New Jersey residents think of their governor's race that will be seen by most voters as a choice between two uninspired candidates. (Despite my prediction, I still have a hard time seeing Jon Corzine losing this race.)

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  • Public Discussion (122)
Jump to discussion page: 1 2 3
Lisa-372621

I disagree. From what the Republican/Conservatives have demonstrated since the 2008 elections, they have learned nothing. As a matter of fact, became more fringed. If Repubs believe the majority of the country is center right, sadly mistaken, their not. It's not progress. However, with the continuous criticism of the President by the media and voters not educating themselves on issues, instead relying on false messages from the Republican/Conservatives, who knows where it all ends. The Republican/Conservatives didn't have a plan of any kind during the campaign and still lack a plan of any kind today. Why? They just want things back the way they were. No regulations on monies (small government), continue keeping the rich, rich and the poor, poor and most importantly, regain power. The enrichment of American lives and jobs will be talked about, but nothing will be done. With the continuous bashing of President Obama by Republicans, the help of the media and voters that insist on voting against their own interests, they just may have a shot.

  • 6 votes
Reply#1 - Tue Nov 3, 2009 5:59 AM EST
notforsale

Obama thinks that his election was the mandate for change and maybe it was but is this the change that the voters wanted? It was a insult to voters when Congress held town meetings to talk about a health care bill that they had not even read some even saying that it was too complicated to understand. The voters are mad they believe they are not being heard. This will be an antiestablishment vote and many continue for a few years.

  • 2 votes
#1.1 - Tue Nov 3, 2009 9:04 AM EST
Ginico-1116437

Right on . . . the NY election is scary because it is the hard right that is leading the way - Marilyn Musgrave, our former representative has only the far right wedge issues as her main platform. They would legislate religion into our laws . . . giving religion power over our government. I pray (I am a Christian) that they fail in NY because it will slow down their progress and allow people to really asses their motives. To many people are following the Focus on the Family doctrines without question to how it affects ALL people. It is important that we REMAIN a secular nation where people are allowed to worship GOD their own way without fear of reprisal.

  • 3 votes
#1.2 - Tue Nov 3, 2009 9:45 AM EST
Capt Tripps

Had not even read? Where are you getting your information? They knew what was in and what they wanted in the Healthcare Bill long before the town halls. How exactly was it an insult to try to explain the facts to their constituent while also receiving "constructive" feedback?

    #1.3 - Tue Nov 3, 2009 9:46 AM EST
    Ed-418360

    The country is center right not left. Obviously you believe in big government and handouts- get a job and a life.

    • 4 votes
    #1.4 - Tue Nov 3, 2009 10:27 AM EST
    cb78750

    Go to Somalia Ed.  You'd like it better there.  No taxes.  No handouts.  It's Nirvana!  They are definitely right of center there.

    • 5 votes
    #1.5 - Tue Nov 3, 2009 11:17 AM EST
    Bob-267155

    Who ghost wrote this for Joe? Mika? Joe did you have to buy her better shoes than the guest?

    I know this could not possibly be written by Scarborough. Chuck Todd help you?

    Have you spent the last two years in Graduate school working on writing?

    Way too well written.

      #1.6 - Tue Nov 3, 2009 11:26 AM EST
      Jeff-1080659

      Lisa,

      Thank you for confirming for me that all libs and Dems are phonies. Your faux intellectual posturing exposes your phony, I-think-I'm-smarter-than-you attitude. I know that you really meant to write '...sadly mistaken; [semi-colon, not a comma] they're [You clearly have no concept of contractions.]...'.

      I'm sure that you'll respond that these are just typos. Yea, right, you phony lib, commie, DemonRat.

      To paraphrase T. Jefferson: A gov't that has the power to give to you anything, also has the power to take from you everything.

      • 1 vote
      #1.7 - Tue Nov 3, 2009 7:52 PM EST
      Capt Tripps

      They have a word for people who take the actions of one person and extrapolate the behavior of an entire group....

        #1.8 - Tue Nov 3, 2009 9:47 PM EST
        Reply
        LeftInTexas

        First of all, 'Morning Ho" has the political instincts of ground coffee and everything he says amounts to pure self-promotion. However, I do believe that the NY 23rd district race for congress has given us a glimpse into 2010 as the ultra conseverative values voters look for purity again, after being scewed over by Rove, Cheney and Bush Jr. I believe that Limbaugh, Beck and others have found a political niche to manipulate, and they will stop at nothing to flex their egos while increasing their personal self-worth in the process. Ultimately this will work in red districts and heavily red states, but, in the end will become a doomed strategy. a significant portion of 30 GOP senators who voted in favor of defense contractors and against an American woman gang-raped in Iraq will tip the majority in the senate way over to the left. Just on female voting principals alone in 2010. There is simply not enough red districts to make a difference in the house. Come 2011, the Democrats will be unstoppable and Obama is simply biding time until then. When the noise makers become just that, noise!

        • 2 votes
        Reply#2 - Tue Nov 3, 2009 6:30 AM EST
        Bob-528522

        You may be right, but I will do what I can to make your prediction for New Jersey wrong. Yes, many of us are frustrated with the economy but we have not forgotten how we got here. Your recollections of Regan are very different from mine. However, most important, I could never see myself voting for the party of Palin and Limbaugh. I wish the GOP would get it's act in order.

        • 3 votes
        Reply#3 - Tue Nov 3, 2009 6:33 AM EST
        Eric-1111111

        Absolute FAIL! You cannot live in New Jersey.

        NJ's Govenor will not be decided by traditional party politcs, it will be decided by how much the NJ people are fed up by being controlled by Unions after years of being run by the mafia.

        • 3 votes
        #3.1 - Tue Nov 3, 2009 6:57 AM EST
        Bigshott-904843

        Bob, you got your wish! That is exactly what the Repubs are doing right now. The fact is that there was no difference in NY23 between the Republican and the Democrat. When Scossa dropped out, she threw her support behind the Democrat. Thats about to end.

        This is the time for a conservative revolution.

        • 8 votes
        #3.2 - Tue Nov 3, 2009 7:05 AM EST
        Reply
        Bob-528522

        Opps! I spelled Reagan wrong. I still have some type of mental block over that whole period.

        • 1 vote
        Reply#4 - Tue Nov 3, 2009 6:45 AM EST
        DeWitt Shank

        Just keep on thinking that way, Lisa, LeftIn, and Bob. The more of you lefties who think that way, the bigger the chances 2010 will be 1994 all over again, but this time with Republicans who really will put the Federal governemnt in its proper place: defend our shores, then get the hell out of our way, and get your hand out of our pockets.

        • 6 votes
        Reply#5 - Tue Nov 3, 2009 6:48 AM EST
        ecaballero34

        The Republican's with their deregulation are what caused the past couple of economic bubbles to burst.  If they hadn't allowed Goldman Sach's all the leeway in commodities and buying oil 27 times before an owner got it, none of this would be happening.  They Republican's are nothing more than croonies for the people who really run this government. 

        • 3 votes
        #5.1 - Tue Nov 3, 2009 9:12 AM EST
        rick-673281

        Oh really what about the housiing crash led by the dems let me see if I can remember their crook names hmm one might be Barney"I didnt know anything"Frank and Chris"special deal"Dodd both are a huge reason for the problems today Bush warned them and Frank came out and said nothing was wrong with Freddie and Fannie then the collapse came and they were the reason.

        • 1 vote
        #5.2 - Tue Nov 3, 2009 9:42 AM EST
        Capt Tripps

        Uh, the Housing crash came from Regulation passed during REPUBLICAN controlled Congresses - get your facts right. They supported and passed deregulation of the financial industry which it easy to lend bad money, and then do all of the "creative" acounting that let them show profit while foreclosing homes left and right, or simply shifting the debt around shell game style.

        It's amazing how people could blame a couple Democratic Senators and Congressman for something that started during 12 years of Republican Congressional control, and 8 of the Presidency.

        I mean why woul Bush CARE what Barney Frank had to say? His friggin party rumber stamped any of his policies - DO something except start wars, damn.

        • 3 votes
        #5.3 - Tue Nov 3, 2009 9:50 AM EST
        Ginico-1116437

        Put our Federal Government in it's place? Obviously you support spending on unnecessary wars, but abhor our government spending on it's own people. All of this mess started with Reagan - 30 years of tax cuts for the rich and now 10% of the people own this country and have the power to do anything they want . . . which is to protect their money and make peons out of the rest of us . . . get real and quit preaching a failed doctrine!

        • 2 votes
        #5.4 - Tue Nov 3, 2009 9:51 AM EST
        LeftInTexas

        DeWitt Shank,

        The GOP is the party of incompetense, as demonstrated by the Bush administration.

        - Incompetent foreign policy

        - Incompetent monetary policy

        - Incompetent values policy

        The GOP has zero candidates capable of solving issues, as evident by the current GOP leadership. Until the GOP can demonstrate real leadership, problem-solving and actually legislate instead playing politics that party is not ready for prime time in my opinion. And, anyone still wedded to the GOP must be a mindless drone in my opinion and completely un-American.

        The GOP is just a bunch of wounded ducks praying on the ignorant for the sake of life-time political appointments, absolutely zero-value!

        • 1 vote
        #5.5 - Tue Nov 3, 2009 10:43 AM EST
        Democrat-337855

        I don't preach along party lines.  Both sides have worn me out long ago.  All I know is, I basically have two viable choices. 

         Under the watch of one of those, I saw a budget surplus become a huge budget deficit, the start of a reprehensibly irresponsible war that stirred up hatred across the planet, as well as killing and maiming our soldiers and thousands of innocent civilians in this ridiculous nation building debacle.  I felt lied to about why we went to war and doubly insulted when our vice president said "so what" when told that Americans were unhappy about the war.

        I watched as our leadership snubbed our brightest scientists in areas like climate control, in favor of short sighted gains for big business, and stem cell research, condemning those with deadly diseases when there could be real hope for a cure, because of private religious beliefs. 

        I watched as more and more people lost their health insurance coverage due to the skyrocketing cost of it, or because they actually got sick, needed it, and their insurance company dropped them.  The United States is the only developed nation in the world that does not have health coverage for all it's citizens.  You could try to argue that the trade off is that we have the best health care for those who do have it, but this would also not be true.  The health care industry is 6% of our economy.  How can anyone believe that the billions they are spending to fight health care reform really has anything to do with what is best for us?  As long as Americans make their decisions based on who has the most and best infomercials, we will be governed by those with the deepest pockets.  Education is the best weapon against ignorance, and the conser vatives turned this on it's head by actually suggesting that being smart and highly educated makes someone 'out of touch' with the common American and therefore not someone we want as a leader.  They are using the less informed to drive their personal agendas.  Joe the Plumber may be a nice guy, but do you think the conservative big wigs are having him over for dinner these days? 

        I saw one of the, if not the largest, gaps in wealth distribution that our country has ever had.  The middle class is shrinking rapidly, the poverty level rising, and the top 2% getting richer.  I don't care what your political ideology is, continued movement in that direction can't be healthy for any country. 

        I am frustrated by this fight over health care reform.  I think the extremists from both sides are more caught up in their ideology than in a good solution.  I believe the conservatives are so caught up in their belief that government can never be the answer, that they close the door on the idea that maybe government can help.  On the flip side, I believe that the liberals think government can be the only solution. The 'states can opt out' bill seems ridiculous to me.  You are going to mandate insurance but if you live in the wrong state sorry for you?  What does this accomplish except maybe for the liberals to say they got at least some form of a public option in place, but at the cost of those who are forced to buy insurance in states with high insurance rates?  Olympia Snowe's suggestion of a trigger option makes far more sense to me.   

          #5.6 - Tue Nov 3, 2009 11:37 AM EST
          RLC1111

          I agree with almost everything you said except the Olympia Snow trigger option, why do we need a trigger option when the insurance companies will try to work the system to get as much profit as they can until they can sneak legislation through that will back it off and never kick in. The Insurance companies of this country have proved over and over they cannot be trusted to do what is right for this country. They want Billion dollar profits with no risk. I can remember when the Dr was in charge of my medical recovery not how much the Insurance Company would pay. The Dr's abused that privilege and that is what got us to this point in our health care. There has to be a point that gives the Insurance Companies profits and keeps health care cost to a minimum without kicking people out of the hospital while they. are still trying to recover.

            #5.7 - Tue Nov 3, 2009 12:06 PM EST
            Jake-488375

            I dont know, for not preaching along party lines your rant pretty much is blue all the way thru, and lets not forget your name.

            • 1 vote
            #5.8 - Tue Nov 3, 2009 5:02 PM EST
            Lisa-372621

            DeWitt Shank

            As long as I pay taxes, the Federal government will work for me. When I buy something, I expect something in return. Perhaps you don't. (I have a bridge for sale) Protect your shores against what? Please. Face it, the Republican/Conservatives or whatever you wish to call yourselves these days, have been a complete and total failure to the people of this country. How you defend them, I don't know. I do know, education goes a long way,

              #5.9 - Wed Nov 4, 2009 5:30 AM EST
              Reply
              jrl-281852

              It would seem that many misunderstand what happened in 2008. Most people did not vote for a far left agenda, they voted against a failure of the President and of the republican party.

              Voters are looking for something different than what we have experienced for the last 25 years. The media and left point out that only 17% of Americans view themselves as republicans. It also points out that only 30% view themselves as democrats. What is more telling is that polls point out that 37% of Americans view themselves as conservative, 40% as moderate and 21% liberal.

              If we are to believe the polls on party affiliation, than the polls on political ideology is most telling.

              • 4 votes
              Reply#6 - Tue Nov 3, 2009 6:58 AM EST
              Ginico-1116437

              Sorry . . . those of us who voted for Obama, listened and agreed with what he said . . . we support what he is doing because he is trying to fulfil what he promised. We are sick of the "trickle down" crap from the right, most Americans now see what it has done to our country when the bottom line is more important than the effects on our country.

              • 3 votes
              #6.1 - Tue Nov 3, 2009 9:54 AM EST
              Clotho

              "Most people did not vote for a far left agenda"

              I agree with that part. Contrary to what the right would have people believe, President Obama is a moderate liberal, not anywhere near far left.

                #6.2 - Tue Nov 3, 2009 11:23 AM EST
                Reply
                Kevin-1010

                These races are basically meaningless to everyone except the media and the candidates.

                Deeds turns out to be a poor candidate and Corzine has alientated a good bit of the NJ electorate. NY 23 should never have been in play but now turns out to be a debacle for the Republican party either way it goes.

                I hesitate to ever agree with knuckle dragging Joe on anything,but it always about the economy. People with full bellies don't start revolutions.

                Barack Obama's best direct mail piece in 2008 was quarterly 401k statements received in mid-October last year...right about the time McCain was saying the economy was "fundamentally sound". When we saw our balances down by 20-50% we said ENOUGH!

                If the jobs start to come back and the market gets close to 11-12000 by mid-2010 you'll see approval ratings start to go up and the Dems stay in power.

                These current races give the pundits lot to talk about but don't mean squat in the grand scheme of things.

                • 2 votes
                Reply#7 - Tue Nov 3, 2009 7:15 AM EST
                Lisa-372621

                Kevin:

                "These races are basically meaningless to everyone except the media and the candidates."

                You are absolutely correct! But, hey, the Don'ts haven't had a lot to be excited about since Sarah Palin. Let's give them their moment.

                  #7.1 - Wed Nov 4, 2009 5:38 AM EST
                  Reply
                  Kyle Workman

                  Let me see if I have this right. Joe Scarborough couldn't make a living as an attorney so he ran for Congress. Then he couldn't get re-elected to congress. So now he's a talking head on MSNBC and you want me to take him seriously. I'm going back to Imus.

                  • 3 votes
                  Reply#8 - Tue Nov 3, 2009 7:23 AM EST
                  jrl-281852

                  How silly. You can agree or disagree with his point of view, but to say a person who does not have a life of unblemished accomplishment is not worth listening to would preclude you from listening to anyone.

                  • 1 vote
                  #8.1 - Tue Nov 3, 2009 8:26 AM EST
                  LMarcT

                  And your point?

                    #8.2 - Tue Nov 3, 2009 8:30 AM EST
                    Sam Go

                    Seriously, criticizing a person and not addressing any points does not make for more intelligent conversation. Address the discussion... if you actually have something to say.

                    • 1 vote
                    #8.3 - Tue Nov 3, 2009 10:00 AM EST
                    shewolf884

                    I don't agree with Joe most of the time, but my problem with him is that he "talks over" everyone on the show, including his co-host, Mika.

                    The people were tired of what they were seeing, as someone else said, the rich are richer and us poor are poorer. We were tired of the venon that comes from the Republithugs. We were tired of their war, and their same ole tired, warmed over, views on gays in the military, same sex marriage and acceptance of the terror that is most anti-abortion. We voted for Universal Health care and we don't care what you call it or how you do it. The party of NO is going to learn a very interesting lesson. No is not solving problems, it's pouting. Stop it.

                    Stop bailing out banks and mortgage thieves and bail out the people who pay your salaries and give you that cushy life in DC. That's the change we voted for. It had very little to do with a party and more to do with demanding that our government listen to us and NOW.

                      #8.4 - Tue Nov 3, 2009 10:33 AM EST
                      shewolf884

                      I don't agree with Joe most of the time, but my problem with him is that he "talks over" any and everyone on the show, all guests, and even including his co-host, Mika.

                      His mother must be so ashamed of him for being so rude.

                      We, the voting people were tired of what they were seeing, as someone else said, the rich are richer and us poor are poorer. We were tired of the venon that comes from the Republithugs. We were tired of their war, and their same ole tired, warmed over, views on gays in the military, same sex marriage and acceptance of the terror that is most of the garbage from the anti-abortion group. We also voted for Universal Health care and we don't care what you call it or how you do it. The party of NO is going to learn a very interesting lesson. No is not solving problems, it's pouting. Stop it.

                      Stop bailing out banks and mortgage thieves and bail out the people who pay your salaries and give you that cushy life in DC. That's the change we voted for. It had very little to do with a party and more to do with demanding that our government listen to us and NOW.

                        #8.5 - Tue Nov 3, 2009 10:34 AM EST
                        LMarcT

                        Sorry Sam... it was meant to be toungue-in-cheek, but apparently wasn't obvious enough... i.e. they listen to no one.

                          #8.6 - Tue Nov 3, 2009 12:24 PM EST
                          Reply
                          michael huff

                          Anybody with any political experience should be voted out...no exceptions regardless of what party they are in and......

                          All I ask is that you consider the suggestion here.

                          The entire Congress of the United States is corrupt. And I mean both Houses and I mean both major parties.

                          I realize that a few Members of each House are trustworthy, but, as a group they are absolutely the most corrupt bunch to ever disgrace our Nation.

                          In November of 2010 the entire House of Representatives will stand for re-election; all 435 of them. One third of the Senate, a total of 33 of them, will also stand for re-election. Vote every incumbent out.

                          And I mean every one of them. No matter their Party affiliation. Let's start all over in the House of Representatives with 435 people who have absolutely no experience in running that body, with no political favors owed to anyone but their own constituents. Let's make them understand that they work for us.

                          They are answerable to us and they simply have to run that body with some common sense.

                          Two years later, in 2012, vote the next third of the incumbents in the Senate out.

                          We can do the same thing in 2014 and, by that time we will have put all new people in that body as well.

                          We, the People, have got to take this Country back and we HAVE to do it peacefully.

                          That's what the Framers of our Constitution envisioned.

                          I am also suggesting term limits on the NEW BUNCH --8 YEARS FOR REPRESENTATIVES AND 12 YEARS OF SENATORS. NO EXCEPTIONS. THE LONGER THEY STAY IN OFFICE THE MORE POWER THEY GET AND THEY LOVE IT AND WILL DO ANYTHING TO GET RE-ELECTED.

                          WE HAVE TERM LIMITED THE PRESIDENT -- NOW LET'S TERM LIMIT THE LEGISLATORS.

                            Reply#9 - Tue Nov 3, 2009 8:22 AM EST
                            LMarcT

                            If there was anyone in the Republican leadership that held any consistent respect from the voters, they might have been able to take advantage on the "conservative" move. Instead, you see Steele throwing money at the conservative candidate ONLY after reading the polls. People see right through that ploy... Find a winner, regardless of what they stand for, throw funding at them and call them your own.

                            But never mind trying to gauge others' frustrations... here's mine:

                            I am sick-to-death of BOTH parties... the Republicans for their death gasp attempts at stopping any progress and all legislation... and the Democrats for being so weak and letting it happen.

                            But do not read me wrong! It is not that I am so left leaning... give me an honest hard-working centrist Republican and I can be happy... it is that the country has moved so "right" and rigid (i.e. righteous) on values while so "un-American" and "out-of-control" in business. I am just tired of the extreme-exec-pay union-smashing poor-be-damned jobs-overseas "service" industry we have become.

                            Do not kid yourself about our "power" by measuring our military might... instead, fear our weakness by our economy and our inability to compete on a global basis... and don't blame this all on Bush or Obama. Its our greed and our wreckless "quarterly results" mentality that got us here... its been brewing for decades now.

                            My frustration is that the Dems have some ideas (and don't cram the big-gov-fear down my throat) that just might work and they seem to have the will to do it... we need to do something quick or die, and the Republicans will be on leave for a while... so DO IT!

                            • 3 votes
                            Reply#10 - Tue Nov 3, 2009 8:29 AM EST
                            jrl-281852

                            LMarc,

                            My point is reflected in your point. While you MAY lean left, you see there is something to be gained from both sides.

                            I listen to Scarborough in the morning and he has many of the same frustrations about the Republican leadership as you do. Seems that you two may have some ideas in common, as to Kyle's comment, he indicates that without the pure life, a person can/should not be taken seriously and with that thought process, he will only be listening to himself.

                              #10.1 - Tue Nov 3, 2009 8:41 AM EST
                              Ginico-1116437

                              Steel is nothing but a joke . . . everyone knows that!

                              • 1 vote
                              #10.2 - Tue Nov 3, 2009 10:01 AM EST
                              Capt Tripps

                              Steele is an insult both to the intelligence of both the Republican voters, and black Americans. I mean, I gues I shouldn't harp on it, but come the @!$%# on. Who exactly did the GOP think they were fooling?

                              • 1 vote
                              #10.3 - Tue Nov 3, 2009 10:03 AM EST
                              LMarcT

                              jrt, I haven't watched Scarborough for a while, but, based on your comments, I may tune in and see what he's saying now-a-days. To be credible at all now (at least with me) you have to be able to see merits/faults with both sides... Thanks.

                                #10.4 - Tue Nov 3, 2009 12:30 PM EST
                                Reply
                                mwatcon

                                rarely watch joe & co anymore.In my 60 plus years of watching politics play out since 1/20/09 this president has been attacked so viciously and watched town halls with the majority of those folks protesting govt with their medicare cards in their wallets and listeneing to joe, pat, and mika say middle america is furious but in all these crowds where were the middle of americans hispanic,asian,african americans people better wake up and get out and vote, but oops joe,pat,mika,rush,glenn,sean dont have to worry about bread and butter issues they can afford healthcare and food

                                • 3 votes
                                Reply#11 - Tue Nov 3, 2009 8:44 AM EST
                                Michael Buie

                                Amen, mwatcon!

                                • 1 vote
                                #11.1 - Tue Nov 3, 2009 9:49 AM EST
                                Ginico-1116437

                                The Republican chant that Obama is raiding Medicare is hollow . . . it was they who raided Medicare when they rammed through Medicare Part D, giving billions to the Insurance and Pharma Industries and putting it all of the credit card.

                                • 1 vote
                                #11.2 - Tue Nov 3, 2009 10:03 AM EST
                                Reply
                                djzz

                                Why are these folks trying so hard to tell us how to think? Has our society become so lacking in intelligence that we shouldn't be allowed to make our own decisions? They get rich and we get dependent. Where did all the Cronkites go?

                                • 1 vote
                                Reply#12 - Tue Nov 3, 2009 8:54 AM EST
                                big lar

                                lmark very good. I think that covers the feelings of 60% of the country. The country would be alot better off without the ultra left or right.

                                • 2 votes
                                Reply#13 - Tue Nov 3, 2009 8:54 AM EST
                                Maritza-687774

                                You're right. I think these elections are not a reflection of the President (who they now call Mr. Obama), but a reflection of how sick people are of those running are government.
                                I'm sure people in California are the ones to determine who should run. I will be thinking of what our governor has done or not vs thinking of the party he belongs to and who is in power at the White House.
                                Local elections are a reflection of local issues and it is truly a shame that people outside of the state, like Palin and Limbaugh, are allowed to get so involved in these individuals choices.
                                The Republians are in terrible shape. Even if I wanted to vote Republican, I would be concerned about those in the extreme right (Ron Paul on health care) just like I'm concerned about the extreme left in theDemocratic Party.

                                • 2 votes
                                #13.1 - Tue Nov 3, 2009 9:03 AM EST
                                Reply
                                mike Z-1448669

                                Joe,

                                First off, I just want to say, I loved your book. It confirmed that my veiw of conservatism is not an aberration. Second, holy cow! I was reading the comments and why is it that when a coservative calmly and coherently states his viewpoint, the most liberal of the"liberals" come out of the woodwork to disagree, and feel compelled to open the dialogue with a personal insult. I attended a very liberal Law School in the late 1980's and was shocked by the visceral hatred that was espoused by so-called open-minded liberals if any person dared to disagree with them. Amazingly, the more "liberal" someone professes to be, the less tolerant they are of any dissent from their closed view of the world. I find it rather ironic, since they clearly have little understanding of the actual meaning of the word liberal.

                                Anyway, I agree with your predictions other than Chrisite. I believe he will win by 4 points on the strength of turnout from voters over 40 who have been hurt by high taxes and a bad economy and are old enough remember fondly previous Republican Governors, Tom Keane and Chrsitie Whitman. When you really think about it, recent history shows that New Jersey Democratic Governors have had rather poor on the job performance. What do I win if I'm right?

                                • 1 vote
                                Reply#14 - Tue Nov 3, 2009 8:59 AM EST
                                Lisa-372621

                                It one thing to disagree. It's another thing to make a statement and not back it up with facts. And the fact of the matter is the Republican/Conservative have become the party of No since President Obama has taken office. Where were the naysayers when Bush's was out of control. Joe, did speak to that. With that said, Bush left such a huge deficit that President Obama has to spend excessive amounts of money in order to stabilize this economy. Put another way, Bush put it on the nation's credit card and now President Obama has to pay it. And the longer it takes to stabilize the economy, the longer it will take to create new jobs.

                                  #14.1 - Wed Nov 4, 2009 5:54 AM EST
                                  Reply
                                  mt-480555

                                  It is a shame if voters vote republican because of the fact that the economy and jobs are not improved significantly yet. No one ever said that this could be fixed in less than one year. No president could have done it in less than one year, democrat or republican. However, maybe if we had a republican president there never would have been a stimulous package and things would have gotten even worse than it did. (A spending freeze and log jam of the economy.) The repubs always think tax breaks for the wealthy and very wealthy will fix things, and it never does. Obama gave the tax breaks to the people who need it the most and since it was not in one lump sum, people are spending it. That extra $15, $20 or $25 dollars extra in the paycheck just gets spent at the grocery store, in the gas tank, and in many other ways. You get millions of people doing this, and that is part of stimulating the economy.

                                  • 3 votes
                                  Reply#15 - Tue Nov 3, 2009 9:16 AM EST
                                  Michael Buie

                                  Why do you suggest there would not have been a stimulus package if there were a Republican in office? Remember McCain's rush to Washington and that Bush started the stimulus?

                                  The Republicans squawk about it simply because they must complain about everything Obama does ...even if they would have done it themselves, if they were in his shoes.

                                  • 1 vote
                                  #15.1 - Tue Nov 3, 2009 9:47 AM EST
                                  Reply
                                  JJd-995381

                                  My question to Scarborough is this, when did you become an expert on handicapping elections.Or do you just repeat the right wing radio chatter.Sounds like Joe likes the radio version.So Joe please stop acting like you are a player,you are more of a cheerleader then a player.You used to be in congress,I believe you had to quit your seat, you didn't run for re-election because of a sex scandal,and the woman they found dead in your office may have help Joe retire early.Joe is like Beck Light,he acts like a high school freshmen,who just learned how to snap his towel in the locker room.Of coarse all the Wingers will be pounding there chest about there chances to win what,a couple governors seats,that will change what,nothing.And since Joes dream girl has spoken and weighed in from Her porch over looking Russia,Joe has jumped on the band wagon with Pawlenty,Bachannan,Bachmann the neo nuts of the party,see Joe the Governorship in Virginia, has for the last 8 elections, voted for the party that was not in power,so the race in Virginia could have been picked by a 1st grader,Corzine is not the peoples choice,and he is a wallstreeter,and that brings fire to ones eyes.So will it be a great message to the White House,I don't think so,its two governors,with no power to do anything.

                                  • 3 votes
                                  Reply#16 - Tue Nov 3, 2009 9:16 AM EST
                                  Michael Buie

                                  Everybody is entitled to an opinion. You don't think Scarborough, who has been in office and follows elections, is qualified as any to propose an election prediction?

                                  Wow.

                                    #16.1 - Tue Nov 3, 2009 9:44 AM EST
                                    Capt Tripps

                                    I think your reacting without reading. Joe is actually 100% correct about the NY race, and about all the local races being driven by local economies. Hoffman winning is much more an indictment of the Repubican party than any kind of litmus test of Obama's influence - This has been a solidly GOP district for nearly 2 centuries. Liberal Democrats are not supposed to garner 40+ % of the vote ever, and wouldn't if there weren't an deological split on the right.

                                    And if Corzine loses it's ALL about the NJ economy and perceptions of government corruption and inefficiency, and not so much support for the Republican social platforms, not in Jersey.

                                      #16.2 - Tue Nov 3, 2009 10:01 AM EST
                                      Lisa-372621

                                      Oh my. That was rather spirited!

                                        #16.3 - Fri Nov 6, 2009 5:59 AM EST
                                        Reply
                                        bbb-853513

                                        Nice calling Christie overweight and bulky frame, why didn't you call Corzine bald. No class comment.

                                          Reply#17 - Tue Nov 3, 2009 9:22 AM EST
                                          Michael Buie

                                          I think that was actually a jab at Corzine's ads about Christe's weight.

                                          You guys have to look a little deeper at things, and not just skim the surface. ;)

                                          • 1 vote
                                          #17.1 - Tue Nov 3, 2009 2:57 PM EST
                                          Reply
                                          Michael Buie

                                          Scarborough, you knuckle-dragger ... LOL! ... here are my predictions:

                                          Virginia — Bob McDonnell by 8+

                                          New Jersey — Jon Corzine by 2

                                          New York 23 — Doug Hoffman by 5+

                                          Doug, but not by as wide a margin as you propose.

                                          Corzine pulls it off .. narrowly.

                                          McDonnel ... is there any doubt he wins decisively?

                                            Reply#18 - Tue Nov 3, 2009 9:42 AM EST
                                            TIRED AND OLDDeleted
                                            marty hollomanDeleted
                                            Jim-372206

                                            Economy, Terrorism, American Values & National Security will decide the election ---- Conservatives failed at all 4

                                            • 1 vote
                                            Reply#21 - Tue Nov 3, 2009 10:02 AM EST
                                            dupon99

                                            I think Joe's predeictions are pretty close. however, his comment about Christie being overweight was uncalled for and shows Joe as the amatuer he is.

                                            • 1 vote
                                            Reply#22 - Tue Nov 3, 2009 10:05 AM EST
                                            Michael Buie

                                            I think that was actually a jab at Corzine's ads about Christe's weight.

                                            You guys have to look a little deeper at things, and not just skim the surface. ;)

                                            • 1 vote
                                            #22.1 - Tue Nov 3, 2009 11:52 AM EST
                                            Reply
                                            PHN

                                            Throw them ALL out and get somebody in there who wants to SERVE the people, not SCREW the people! Both parties need a major overhaul.

                                              Reply#23 - Tue Nov 3, 2009 10:05 AM EST
                                              marty holloman

                                              I see I was deleted earlier, please explain, no dirty words, just a expression of how I feel about Moaning Joe. Is he not arogant, is he not rude, talking over his co-workers and guest. I am serious, why was I deleted.

                                              • 1 vote
                                              Reply#24 - Tue Nov 3, 2009 10:18 AM EST
                                              yodacohen

                                              The thing is, none of these three elections has any major impact on ANYTHING. Exactly how does the Governor in Virginia or New Jersey impact me in Texas? What has Tim Kaine or Jon Corzine done in their states that impacts my Texas life?

                                              Furthermore, the congressional district in question has been Republican and fairly conservative for over a hundred years. So what.

                                              Now if Democratic House and Senate seats were at stake, the results would be significant. New Jersey, Virginia, and that upstate NY congressional district have local problems/issues that are motivating voters one way or the other. The recession depresses tax collection. Neither Jon Corzine nor Tim Kaine caused the recession. They have out of kilter state budgets and have to cut state payroll and increase tax collection in order to meet state obligations. That has nothing to do with whether anyone likes or dislikes Barack Obama as President of the United States.

                                              Seems like everybody forgot FDR and what he did during the Great Depression. Obama's stimulus package and the TARP funds have prevented major financial disaster in this country, as distasteful as shoveling money to big banks is. George Bush knew that. Hank Paulsen knew that. Alan Greenspan knew that. John Boehner knows it, too, but won't say it, because it would be political suicide for him to do so.

                                              Remember, MSNBC, Fox, and CNN all have to put SOMETHING on the air every hour, and at MSNBC and FOX, their focus is politics. They have blown three insignificant elections beyond their political boundaries into a phony referendum on the Democratic Party and Barack Obama.

                                              It's all baloney.

                                              • 1 vote
                                              Reply#25 - Tue Nov 3, 2009 10:25 AM EST
                                              superlogiDeleted
                                              Capt Tripps

                                              WE broke Social Security, not FDR. The program he created was sustainable until the Federal Government decided to raid the coffers and use that money as part of the general fund. Other than that it has been an amazingly successful social program- ask most people receiving benefits how they'd be doing without it.

                                              And Obama is a centrist moderate, regardless of how shrill the cries of socialism from the right. He hasn't tried pushing threw any legislation championed by the very real Socialist Party here in America. That'd be Universal Single Payer Healthcare, for starters. The reform we MIGHT get is about as centrist a compromise as can be epected, as still getting stonewalled.

                                                #25.2 - Tue Nov 3, 2009 1:45 PM EST
                                                James-296567

                                                I disagree Capt Tripps. Obama is an extremist left socialist marxist who wants to own 1/7th of this nations weath thru healthcare legislation. If you think the social security coffers were raided just give these baffoon extremist 1/7 of the nations wealth and see what happens. I think you need to revisit your Obama position.

                                                  #25.3 - Tue Nov 3, 2009 2:21 PM EST
                                                  Capt Tripps

                                                  Again, he's not an extremist socialist marxist......aye caramba do you even know what those words mean? Seems like you fellas are just throwing together whatever sounds the most despicable. Hes not even that far left, go ask someone who self identifies as a leftist, they will tell you Obama disappoints the most liberal wing of the Democratic party.

                                                  And honestly, I'd rather the money go to them for something like healthcare for everyone than a war I didn't want, or returned as tax cuts for the wealthy this country couldn't afford.

                                                    #25.4 - Tue Nov 3, 2009 6:46 PM EST
                                                    Jeff-1080659

                                                    You're all baloney and an imbecile, to boot. FDR prolonged the Great Depression. the GD lasted longer in the US than in any other country. The stimulus package hasn't done anything; in fact, it's probably hindering a quick recovery. Certainly, the increase in the national debt due to the stimulus package has hurt the dollar. Why don't you do some research before you go on line to sputter your blather?

                                                    • 1 vote
                                                    #25.5 - Tue Nov 3, 2009 8:08 PM EST
                                                    Capt Tripps

                                                    The national debt due to the stimulus package? Dude the debt was 10 Trillion before Obama ever took office, nothing he did this year did extraneous damage to the dollar. Learn a bit about economics, mkay?

                                                    And that FDR prolonged the Depression BS has been debunked so often it's a shame people still show their ignorance by posting it.

                                                      #25.6 - Tue Nov 3, 2009 9:46 PM EST
                                                      Jeff-1080659

                                                      Yea, cite some evidence. My evidence my be found at the Ludwig von Mises Institute website, among many others. It's your unsubstantiated and uneducated opinion that has been de-bunked by a majority of economists. Also, what kind of self-inflated ego must you possess to include in your moniker the title Capt. I seriously doubt that you served your country in any such capacity that would warrant you taking such a title. Sheesh, another phony lib with an inflated self-opinion of himself. Gee, General, lead us to water. You're a clown.

                                                      • 1 vote
                                                      #25.7 - Tue Nov 3, 2009 9:57 PM EST
                                                      Lisa-372621

                                                      Jeff

                                                      Is name calling really necessary? Do you lack a command of the English language?

                                                        #25.8 - Wed Nov 4, 2009 6:05 AM EST
                                                        Reply
                                                        Sherry-1448900

                                                        I really enjoy Morning Joe and like the give and take among the hosts and the guests. It helps us out here look at every angle. I was a Democrat who switched to an Independent this year. The most upsetting thing about the presidential election was the love the media had for President Obama, and they weren't afraid to show it. I want the media to remain neutral in their reporting and not try to influence the outcome of the election, which they did. I voted for Obama, but it was scary to see the election manipulated by the media.

                                                        • 1 vote
                                                        Reply#26 - Tue Nov 3, 2009 10:32 AM EST
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