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WASHINGTON — Billed as a way for the government to put more fuel-efficient vehicles on highways, the popular $3 billion Cash for Clunkers program mostly involved swaps of old Ford or Chevrolet pickups for new ones that got only marginally better gas mileage, according to an analysis of new federal data by The Associated Press.
The single most common swap — which occurred more than 8,200 times — involved Ford F150 pickup owners who took advantage of a government rebate to trade their old trucks for new Ford F150s. They were 17 times more likely to buy a new F150 than, say, a Toyota Prius. The fuel economy for the new trucks ranged from 15 mpg to 17 mpg based on engine size and other factors, an improvement of just 1 mpg to 3 mpg over the clunkers.
Owners of thousands more large, old Chevrolet and Dodge pickups bought new Silverado and Ram trucks, also with only barely improved mileage in the middle teens, according to AP's analysis of sales of $15.2 billion worth of vehicles at nearly 19,000 car dealerships in every state. Those deals helped the Ford F150 and Chevy Silverado — along with Ford's Escape midsize SUV — climb into the Top 10 most-popular vehicles purchased with the government rebates. The most common truck-for-truck and truck-for-SUV deals totaled at least $911 million.
In scores of deals, the government reported spending a total of $562,500 in rebates for new cars and trucks that got worse or the same mileage as the trade-ins — in apparent violation of the program's requirements. The government said it is investigating those reports and said in some cases they were probably entered incorrectly by dealers or based on outdated fuel economy figures.
The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration is still reviewing the reports, and any dealers that submitted invalid trade-ins will be directed to return the government rebate, spokesman Eric Bolton said.
The new data, obtained by the AP under the Freedom of Information Act, include details of 677,081 clunker trade-ins processed by the government through Oct. 16. More than 95,000 of the new vehicles purchased under the program — or about 1 in 7 — got less than 20 mpg, according to the data.
The new figures, requested four months ago by the AP, represent the first substantial outside accounting of the clunkers program, lauded by the White House and the Transportation Department for improving fuel economy, stimulating sales and taking the dirtiest vehicles off the road. The data show the average fuel economy was 15.8 mpg for the old vehicles and 24.9 for the new ones.
The overall mileage increases over the clunker fleet represent a decline of 1.87 million tons of carbon dioxide per year, based on families driving an average of 12,000 miles, a yearly savings equivalent to the amount of carbon dioxide spewed in the U.S. in just 2.5 hours.
But plenty of consumers bought relatively low-mileage trucks and SUVs with the help of government checks.
"If we're looking for the environmental story here, we're going to be disappointed," said Jeremy Anwyl, chief executive at Edmunds.com, an analyst firm. "It might have started out from the perspective of improving the environment, but it got detoured as a way to stimulate the economy."
Popular high-mileage commuter cars, including the Toyota Corolla, Honda Civic, Toyota Camry and Ford Focus, also were among the Top 10 most popular new vehicles bought under the four-week program, with 105,280 of those models sold for a total of about $2 billion.
Bolton, the NHTSA spokesman, said the program "proved to be a win for the economy and the environment" because it helped financially struggling dealerships and auto manufacturers, and because, under the program's rules, clunkers necessarily were replaced with vehicles that got better mileage.
Chris Moss of Smithtown, N.Y., traded in his 1992 white Ford F150 pickup — "it had 5 million miles on it and needed $50,000 in repairs, if you know what I mean" — for a new Chevrolet Malibu hybrid for his wife. When he drove his old truck to the dealership's back lot with the rest of the clunkers, "90 percent of what you saw were old 150s and Explorers," he said. Moss posted a video on YouTube of his old truck's final day, called "Rust In Peace."
The $3 billion program, known officially as the Car Allowance Rebate System, ran from July 27 to Aug. 25 and generally required that new vehicles get better mileage — at least 22 mpg for cars and either 15 mpg or 18 mpg for trucks, depending on class — and that trade-ins get no more than 18 mpg. The trade-ins were required to be destroyed in exchange for either $3,500 or $4,500 rebates.
Some deals raise eyebrows:
— In at least 145 cases, mostly involving trucks, the government reported consumers traded old vehicles that got better than or the same mileage as the new vehicle they purchased. The government said it was continuing to investigate. "It's possible some quirky deal slipped through the cracks," Anwyl said.
— In at least 15 deals in nine states, owners of large pickups cashed in old trucks for between $3,500 and $4,500 toward new Hummer H3 SUVs that got only 16 mpg.
— In at least 32 deals, drivers traded older vehicles for new large trucks — including versions of Toyota Tundras, GMC Sierras, Chevrolet Silverados, Dodge Rams and Ford F150 pickups — that got only 14 mpg.
Car-crazy California led clunker sales with more than 76,000 trade-ins, followed by Texas with roughly 43,000 and New York with nearly 37,000. In California, the Honda Civic was the No. 1 new car and no pickups ranked higher than 18th. In New York, the Hyundai Elantra was No. 1.
The clunkers program was very good for Longo Toyota of El Monte, Calif., just east of Los Angeles, which sold more than twice as many vehicles under the program as any other dealership in the country, worth more than $30 million. That sole dealership was responsible for 1,432 sales worth nearly $6 million in clunkers rebates, mostly from its sales of 323 Toyota Camrys, 277 Corollas and 171 Priuses.
"We knew it was just a matter of when, not if, we were going to get paid, so we kept our foot on the gas," Longo president Tom Rudnai said.
___
On the Net:
Cash for Clunkers data: http://www.cars.gov/carsreport
© 2009 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.
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 | 'Clunker' data show pickup-for-pickup trades | msnbc.com | Thu Nov 5 | 1 |
| Clunker Pickups Traded for New Pickups | The New York Times | Thu Nov 5 | 2 |
 | AP News in Brief | Associated Press | Sat Oct 31 | 0 |
- Public Discussion (43)
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{"commentId":10476429,"authorDomain":"bzajr3"}
And people want the government to run "Health Care?" Holy Sh*t....thats scary.....
{"commentId":10476429,"threadId":"716692","contentId":"3461259","authorDomain":"bzajr3"}
- 12 votes
#1 - Wed Nov 4, 2009 3:18 PM EST{"commentId":10476808,"authorDomain":"rickace"}
And people want the government to run "Health Care?" Holy Sh*t....thats scary.....
My sentiments exactly.
I took the cash from trading in my now-illegal Japanese clunker and plunked it down on a brand spankin new Pelosi Sport Edition from Congressional Motors. Man, what a car. That revolutionary Al Gore V-3 can blow the doors off a Vette with its antiquated V-8.
"The only car endorsed by President Barack Hussein Obama"
{"commentId":10476808,"threadId":"716692","contentId":"3461259","authorDomain":"rickace"}
- 6 votes
{"commentId":10478434,"authorDomain":"dwfillip"}
Was the C for C program really aimed at removing gas guzzlers from the road? I don't think so, but you can draw your own theory on that. Think about it, what was the reason behind it? Watch the Cap and Tax deal very close, is it really about reducing green house emissions? It is nothing but the largest tax in history, what part of it will reduce emissions? You think HC is scary you ain't seen nuttin yet!
{"commentId":10478434,"threadId":"716692","contentId":"3461259","authorDomain":"dwfillip"}
- 4 votes
{"commentId":10478568,"authorDomain":"2tailpuppy"}
Pelosi Sport Edition from Congressional Motors.
That might still be around in 5 years. Not like 2 of our 3 auto companies.
{"commentId":10478568,"threadId":"716692","contentId":"3461259","authorDomain":"2tailpuppy"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":10478610,"authorDomain":"2tailpuppy"}
Was the C for C program really aimed at removing gas guzzlers from the road? I don't think so, but you can draw your own theory on that.
It was BHO's payback time to the corrupt unions.
{"commentId":10478610,"threadId":"716692","contentId":"3461259","authorDomain":"2tailpuppy"}
- 5 votes
{"commentId":10479692,"authorDomain":"Jivatmanx"}
Watch the Cap and Tax deal very close, is it really about reducing green house emissions?
If they wanted to reduce greenhouse gas emissions, they would tax use of gasoline and other fossil fuels (and possibly offset it with tax cuts elsewhere). That's it. No Orwellian bull@!$%# necessary.
Economically, it's the only way to reduce usage that makes even the slightest bit of sense.
As for cap-and-trade, no, I don't even think they're making it for tax reasons. They're doing it because it allows them to create a massive new bureaucracy that allows the government basically dictatorial control over every aspect of the economy.
{"commentId":10479692,"threadId":"716692","contentId":"3461259","authorDomain":"Jivatmanx"}
- 3 votes
{"commentId":10481845,"authorDomain":"awhite72"}
They're doing it because it allows them to create a massive new bureaucracy that allows the government basically dictatorial control over every aspect of the economy.
If Cap and Screw gets passed I think it would be apporpriate to tax BO's mouth, since he spews the most bull manure by any human on the planet. My scientist team has determined that BO spews about 150 million metric tons of CO2 per day. By his contribution this should make it better for all Americans to pay for this Cap and Screw fiasco.
{"commentId":10481845,"threadId":"716692","contentId":"3461259","authorDomain":"awhite72"}
- 3 votes
{"commentId":10487042,"authorDomain":"RuthyJObservations"}
Scary is right! Trading in vehicles getting 15 mpg for bigger ones that only get 16 mpg's is an example of the amazing results of the Cash for Clunkers Program. Oversight is a bit late in getting this straightened out, but "The National Highway Safety Administration is still reviewing the reports and any dealers that submitted invalid trad-ins will be directed to return the Government Rebates according to Spokesman Eric Bolton. Hold his feet to the fire to see that what he claims will be done, is done!
{"commentId":10487042,"threadId":"716692","contentId":"3461259","authorDomain":"RuthyJObservations"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":10489269,"authorDomain":"rickace"}
If Cap and Screw gets passed I think it would be apporpriate to tax BO's mouth, since he spews the most bull manure by any human on the planet.
If Al Gore would shut his pie hole he could single-handedly reduce U.S. greenhouse gases by a third.
{"commentId":10489269,"threadId":"716692","contentId":"3461259","authorDomain":"rickace"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":10490491,"authorDomain":"awhite72"}
If Al Gore would shut his pie hole he could single-handedly reduce U.S. greenhouse gases by a third.
Amen to that!
{"commentId":10490491,"threadId":"716692","contentId":"3461259","authorDomain":"awhite72"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":10476456,"authorDomain":"paul-clingan"}
Classic government oversight of one of it's initiatives that solved no problems long term but added to the taxpayer burden. Bravo!!! :P
{"commentId":10476456,"threadId":"716692","contentId":"3461259","authorDomain":"paul-clingan"}
- 6 votes
#2 - Wed Nov 4, 2009 3:19 PM EST{"commentId":10476627,"authorDomain":"247"}
The left will still say that it was a successful program no matter how many facts you point out to them. I can predict what most of their responses are going to be. Well that wasn't the intention of the program. That wasn't Pres. Obama's fault he didn't setup the program., somebody else screwed it up. Or the ever popular - It was Pres. Bush's fault!
{"commentId":10476627,"threadId":"716692","contentId":"3461259","authorDomain":"247"}
- 6 votes
#3 - Wed Nov 4, 2009 3:26 PM EST{"commentId":10515723,"authorDomain":"RuthyJObservations"}
Exactly. All the Left seems to know how to do is mock and ridicule anything and anyone that doesn't agree with their agenda and beliefs.
{"commentId":10515723,"threadId":"716692","contentId":"3461259","authorDomain":"RuthyJObservations"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":10476948,"authorDomain":"aerdnappar-1"}
I thought the rule was the new vehicle had to get 10 or more miles per gallon more than the trade in. It's not the President's fault if dealers didn't follow the rules. Maybe that's why some are not getting the reimbursement they want from the government.
{"commentId":10476948,"threadId":"716692","contentId":"3461259","authorDomain":"aerdnappar-1"}
#4 - Wed Nov 4, 2009 3:39 PM EST{"commentId":10477187,"authorDomain":"pchacker"}
I think the negative may be an exaggeration, but this is what I found on it:
Clunkers must get less than 18 miles a gallon combined fuel economy, as rated by the Environmental Protection Agency. The new car you're buying must get at least 22 mpg, a new SUV or small truck must be rated at least 18 mpg and there's no minimum when you're buying an extra-large work truck or van.
If a clunker car is traded in for a new car that achieves 4 to 9 miles per gallon better fuel economy, the credit is $3,500. If it gets 10 mpg more, the credit is $4,500. If you're trading in an SUV or pickup and want to buy another similar vehicle, you get $3,500 if it there's only a 1 mpg improvement. If there's a 2 or more mpg improvement, you get $4,500.
http://content.usatoday.com/communities/driveon/post/2009/07/68495326/1
So you could trade something in 24 years old if you had it insured for a year for $3,500 that gets 1 mpg better.
{"commentId":10477187,"threadId":"716692","contentId":"3461259","authorDomain":"pchacker"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":10477286,"authorDomain":"gorillablog"}
not to pick on texas, but many dealers there let people trade in trucks for trucks that got not much better mileage. in california and new york, the program seemed to work as intended. the program may have only increased the average mileage by 9 mpg, but that is something. there is no doubt that the program had its problems.
{"commentId":10477286,"threadId":"716692","contentId":"3461259","authorDomain":"gorillablog"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":10477415,"authorDomain":"pchacker"}
not to pick on texas, but many dealers there let people trade in trucks for trucks that got not much better mileage.
And why shouldn't they - the rules for trucks and SUV's explicitly said it only had to be 1 mpg higher.
If you're trading in an SUV or pickup and want to buy another similar vehicle, you get $3,500 if it there's only a 1 mpg improvement. If there's a 2 or more mpg improvement, you get $4,500.
if it were specified that it had to be greater than 9 mpg, then I would agree, pick on Texas, but they followed the letter of the law so far as trucks and mpg go.
{"commentId":10477415,"threadId":"716692","contentId":"3461259","authorDomain":"pchacker"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":10477483,"authorDomain":"gorillablog"}
shawn
i do not know that the mileage was better for sure. there was mention of some breaking the rules. yes, if they followed the letter of the rules, then good for them. it does, however, lower the overall average (still was +9 mpg).
{"commentId":10477483,"threadId":"716692","contentId":"3461259","authorDomain":"gorillablog"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":10478611,"authorDomain":"rickace"}
there is no doubt that the program had its problems.
It did more harm than good. That's the biggest problem. The whole thing was motivated by a desire to goose sales artificially to make the feds' pet projects (the Big Three) look good. When the economy is in the largest slump since the Great Depression, the feds should encourage people to make existing products last longer; that will free up household funds for making ends meet. Instead they deploy a program to tempt people into spending more.
But then that's the hallmark of this administration and Congress. They really don't know what the hell the results will be but they keep blundering along. The price tag is astronomical, but they won't have to pick up the tab so why care? Anything they can do to make themselves look good and keep those approval numbers up.
It won't last.
{"commentId":10478611,"threadId":"716692","contentId":"3461259","authorDomain":"rickace"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":10477079,"authorDomain":"Boothby"}
Lot of new trucks in these parts, looking out my front window I count six on my quiet little street.
{"commentId":10477079,"threadId":"716692","contentId":"3461259","authorDomain":"Boothby"}
- 1 vote
#5 - Wed Nov 4, 2009 3:44 PM EST{"commentId":10477383,"authorDomain":"Will4Freedom"}
I've also read a statistic that only 45% of cars sold were US cars. The rest were foreign. I thought it was unconstitutional for the US to subsidize a foreign company?
{"commentId":10477383,"threadId":"716692","contentId":"3461259","authorDomain":"Will4Freedom"}
- 2 votes
#6 - Wed Nov 4, 2009 3:57 PM EST{"commentId":10478643,"authorDomain":"rickace"}
I thought it was unconstitutional for the US to subsidize a foreign company?
The feds jettisoned the Constitution long ago. They are out of control and accountable to only the lobbyists, who could care less about the Constitution as long as they stay on the gravy train.
{"commentId":10478643,"threadId":"716692","contentId":"3461259","authorDomain":"rickace"}
- 3 votes
{"commentId":10477451,"authorDomain":"Will4Freedom"}
I've also read a statistic that only 45% of cars sold were US cars. The rest were foreign. I thought it was unconstitutional for the US to subsidize a foreign company?
{"commentId":10477451,"threadId":"716692","contentId":"3461259","authorDomain":"Will4Freedom"}
#7 - Wed Nov 4, 2009 3:59 PM EST{"commentId":10477535,"authorDomain":"gorillablog"}
that did bother me a little. i thought it was a program geared toward helping the ailing american automotive industry. it always killed me to see so many foreign-made or foreign-owned cars in the parking lots at gm and ford. now those same guys are out of a job. if more people had bought american, then maybe some of those jobs could have been saved.
{"commentId":10477535,"threadId":"716692","contentId":"3461259","authorDomain":"gorillablog"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":10477903,"authorDomain":"tempestnam"}
http://online.wsj.com/mdc/public/page/2_3022-autosales.html
So let's see...in July they sold as many trucks nationally as were sold in May...so essentially, clunkers had no impact.
And August they sold around 500,000 total trucks, an increase over the "average" around 416k or so a month. So in other words...we're talking how many real trade ins in "trucks" (84k increase over average, for 1 month)
The major bump was in cars. All you have to do is look at the sales numbers.
{"commentId":10477903,"threadId":"716692","contentId":"3461259","authorDomain":"tempestnam"}
#8 - Wed Nov 4, 2009 4:19 PM EST{"commentId":10477958,"authorDomain":"boonsorama"}
wow, now all the soccer dads can chat on their little phones while driving junior to his game in their new gas guzzler. Meanwhile, they can pretend they MIGHT one day haul a friend's refrigerator.
{"commentId":10477958,"threadId":"716692","contentId":"3461259","authorDomain":"boonsorama"}
#9 - Wed Nov 4, 2009 4:21 PM EST{"commentId":10478572,"authorDomain":"247"}
Why do you care what they do with them or why they have them?
During the summer I take my kids to their sports activities in my gas guzzling SUV and sometimes my wife will drive hers too depending on schedules. Nevermind the fact that I live in the midwest where a four wheel drive (or all wheel drive) is pretty much a necessity in the winter.
If you believe in global warming, I've got some carbon offset credits I can sell you! I want to be the second carbon credit billionare. Al Gore has a big start on me, but I'm certain their is room for to carbon credit billionares!
Meanwhile, they can pretend they MIGHT one day haul a friend's refrigerator.
Meanwhile, you can drive your Prius and good luck in a collision with one of my SUVs!
{"commentId":10478572,"threadId":"716692","contentId":"3461259","authorDomain":"247"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":10478303,"authorDomain":"Will4Freedom"}
didn't realize it went in before... never mind.
{"commentId":10478303,"threadId":"716692","contentId":"3461259","authorDomain":"Will4Freedom"}
#10 - Wed Nov 4, 2009 4:36 PM EST{"commentId":10478585,"authorDomain":"bernhardmeck"}
Big deal, so there are a couple thousand aberrations in the tally of going on almost a million cars. Overall though, the combined average for the clunker-ed car fleet was something like 16mpg and the new cars were at something like 25mpg. That doesn't look so bad to me!
Ridiculous story! Somebody was bored, pulled out the odd exceptions to disprove the rule and scare the gullible! But still, it got a rise out of a few!
{"commentId":10478585,"threadId":"716692","contentId":"3461259","authorDomain":"bernhardmeck"}
- 3 votes
#11 - Wed Nov 4, 2009 4:48 PM EST{"commentId":10479767,"authorDomain":"Jivatmanx"}
That doesn't look so bad to me!
Well, since the new cars didn't require any energy or natural resources to create, I guess we shouldn't mind paying people to totally destroy the economic value of the old ones.
{"commentId":10479767,"threadId":"716692","contentId":"3461259","authorDomain":"Jivatmanx"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":10481137,"authorDomain":"bernhardmeck"}
I wish I saw the end of the 'economic value' of the old hooptees my neighbor (bless his heart) keeps in his driveway. One (a 87 Lincoln town-car) hasn't moved in at least three years and is slowly rotting away. The other is some gas-guzzling GM mini-van that has bled him dry with frequent expensive repairs and is unreliable for work. He might have traded in the cash-for-clunker deal, but he missed out. The 'economic value' of popular parts (other than the engine, which by the rules must be destroyed) is still salvaged. To say that the smoking, ever mal-functioning contraptions are some sort of treasure seems off. The neighbor meanwhile is letting his 'economic treasure' rot... must not be that much to it!
{"commentId":10481137,"threadId":"716692","contentId":"3461259","authorDomain":"bernhardmeck"}
{"commentId":10479261,"authorDomain":"Rixar13"}
The single most common swap — which occurred more than 8,200 times — involved Ford 150 pickup owners who took advantage of a government rebate to trade their old trucks for new Ford 150s.
Can't see the forest due to the trees.....? President Obama reinvigorated the Auto Industry which in turn stimulated the economy. Thank you President Obama for steering us out of the second Great Depression.
{"commentId":10479261,"threadId":"716692","contentId":"3461259","authorDomain":"Rixar13"}
- 2 votes
#12 - Wed Nov 4, 2009 5:20 PM EST{"commentId":10480904,"authorDomain":"rickace"}
President Obama reinvigorated the Auto Industry which in turn stimulated the economy.
The hell he did. He just replayed the Terri Schiavo case, luring the federal government into more intrusion into our lives.
{"commentId":10480904,"threadId":"716692","contentId":"3461259","authorDomain":"rickace"}
- 3 votes
{"commentId":10481370,"authorDomain":"bernhardmeck"}
The horror! I guess we should let the greedy CEO's run the show. We'd all have 10mpg station-wagons with peeling fake wood decals... but wait... they went the way of the dinosaur... those pesky, pesky 'guvment' rules. We miss the gothic relics of ancient Americana, don't we?
Damnit to hell we miss that lead in the gas, DDT in the air, the days with no seat-belts and crumple-zones, when any Tom, Dick and Harry could concoct fake milk from lime, slime and mix it with some filthy milk and call it a 'product'. Killed and messed up a lot of people all those greedy schemes before THE GOVERNMENT got involved. Ever consider 'the Federal Government' is not your enemy? The conspiracies of Hollywood action movies made for dim-wits, are not the real world!
{"commentId":10481370,"threadId":"716692","contentId":"3461259","authorDomain":"bernhardmeck"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":10481571,"authorDomain":"ejcanavan"}
That made me giggle a little inside .... the only steering he did was driving money right back in to the hands of the automotive unions. Give me a break.
{"commentId":10481571,"threadId":"716692","contentId":"3461259","authorDomain":"ejcanavan"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":10482584,"authorDomain":"Jivatmanx"}
Au Contrarie, it's the government that decided that there are "acceptable levels" of violating other people's private property through the pollution of lead, mercury, and other harmful chemicals. It's the government that decided that those product manufacturer's couldn't be sued for fraud when they sold unsafe products...
It's also the government that so often refuses to enforce these few meager standards.
Instead of simply respecting private property and contracts, and allowing normal legal restitution, it is, in fact, the government that decided they should be improperly protected due to lobbying efforts.
{"commentId":10482584,"threadId":"716692","contentId":"3461259","authorDomain":"Jivatmanx"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":10490817,"authorDomain":"247"}
And the government is pushing the CFL lightbulbs which have toxic levels of mercury in them. If you break one in your home, you are supposed to call poison control!
{"commentId":10490817,"threadId":"716692","contentId":"3461259","authorDomain":"247"}
{"commentId":10480050,"authorDomain":"streetmachine9"}
I just had to say I told you so, to all the people that got mad at me the last time I posted on this subject. Now we have to pay for it.
{"commentId":10480050,"threadId":"716692","contentId":"3461259","authorDomain":"streetmachine9"}
- 1 vote
#13 - Wed Nov 4, 2009 5:57 PM EST{"commentId":10496097,"authorDomain":"bzajr3"}
I don't see any of them around........they must be focused on the "Pelosi Health Care Bill"
{"commentId":10496097,"threadId":"716692","contentId":"3461259","authorDomain":"bzajr3"}
{"commentId":10501325,"authorDomain":"streetmachine9"}
and Pelosi better be ready for the fallout come November next year
{"commentId":10501325,"threadId":"716692","contentId":"3461259","authorDomain":"streetmachine9"}
{"commentId":10486643,"authorDomain":"yorandyo2"}
I'm about to close on selling my home that was on the market for 2.5 years after my job forced me to move. I'm going to lose every dime of the 20% I put down and the money I invested in fixing it up. At closing I will have to pay all the taxes due so people who mismanage their money can get cash for their clunkers and rebates to by their first house. This whole scheme stinks like a rotting corps.
{"commentId":10486643,"threadId":"716692","contentId":"3461259","authorDomain":"yorandyo2"}
#14 - Thu Nov 5, 2009 12:23 AM EST{"commentId":10512988,"authorDomain":"budzy1911"}
Cool - and this is the same government that wants to give us free health care? How can we go wrong?
{"commentId":10512988,"threadId":"716692","contentId":"3461259","authorDomain":"budzy1911"}
- 2 votes
#15 - Thu Nov 5, 2009 11:37 PM EST{"commentId":10518581,"authorDomain":"rickace"}
They sure do build one helluva car!
{"commentId":10518581,"threadId":"716692","contentId":"3461259","authorDomain":"rickace"}
- 1 vote
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