Obama welcomes AARP backing of health care bill

I think the real reason they are backing the bill is they actually like the way the bill slashes money for Medicare.

Have you noticed how AARP has been running a lot of TV commercials for their "supplemental insurance" for people on Medicare who find it doesn't cover enough? AARP is rubbing its paws together in anticipation of an expanded need for its supplemental policies after Medicare gets slashed.

AARP can go bang into a pole for all I care.

B.S., you two. The AARP has obviously spent time and money on seeking to understand the basic tenets of the bill and found it beneficial to everyone, not just themselves. Some American citizens still do that, you know.

Doctors can absorb the twenty-percent cut by cutting down on what will hopefully be unnecessary administrative costs.

1.2

I call B.S. to your B.S. NO one understands the bill, they just want to pass the bill, hell you can read it once and get something out of it but if you read it again there is something new that negates the last thing you found...

Doctors can absorb the twenty-percent cut by cutting down on what will hopefully be unnecessary administrative costs.

Yeah...lets get rid of some more jobs, who needs those right now, with the stimulus we already have too many.

Kathleen, why don't you just admit that you support the bill because you think it will lead to you having "free" health care.

I don't know to much about the bill. But if it will cut my cost I'm in for it. I'm not looking for free health care, but i am tired of paying $125 a week for family health care insurance. Or taking an option of a high deductible plan which is crazy. There's just no sense in it at all. But if anyone can fill me in on true facts against the plan, I am open minded for a discussion. Other wise I will have to support and have faith in the leader our country put into office and it seems to me that hes more interested in us not so privlaged citizens than any president of my time. I believe he's done more in trying to reform our country in one year than anyone has done in a while. I know that not all plans are perfect, but it has to be better than what we have now. If not its back to the drawing board 20 years from now.

Doctors can absorb the twenty-percent cut by cutting down on what will hopefully be unnecessary administrative costs.

I would love it if your were the person presenting that to doctors:) Of course there will be no cuts since the House is already sponsoring a separate bill that gives the cuts back so they can say the reform bill is deficit neutral. Each year Congress was supposed to cut payments to providers and each year they kick the can down the road. Dont expect to see any cuts since that would lead to even less doctors taking Medicare.

Ryan, why don't you and other naysayers on here admit that you oppose the bill because you oppose any initiative that the Obama administration puts forward, not because you actually know anything about the bill. What the hell is "free healthcare" anyway?

I support the bill because I have relatives and friends, with kids, who are working their asses off and still don't get healthcare coverage through their employers, beause their employers simply cannot afford to purchase it for them. With the economy like it is, their employers are struggling just to keep their employees at 40hrs a week, let alone paying healthcare insurance costs.

Opposition to this bill has nothing to do with costs, or "burden on our children and grandchildren" or any other such right-winger nut nonsense. It has to do with opposition to Obama being the President. I'd have a modicum of respect for any rightie who had the intestinal fortitude to admit this.

Why would a senior organization like AARP endorse a bill which cuts Medicare by $ 400B ?

Why would a senior organization like AARP endorse a bill which cuts Medicare by $ 400B ?

Good question, I have another one.

Why would anyone support/endorse a bill that will make medical costs go up?

Jullian, It has nothing to do with Obama, It has to do with health care as a whole. I work in the industry and understand it better then most people, this would be a disaster to the industry.

The reality is, you want someone else to help you out with your own responsibility, and know very little about the health care industry, but some how you want to make this as a thing between "naysayers" and Obama

What's next, do you want the government to pay for car insurance, because you can't afford that either?

Why would a senior organization like AARP endorse a bill which cuts Medicare by $ 400B ?

if I'm not mistaken, the cuts are to medicare Advantage, which is basically the same as medicare only more expensive and more profitable to private ins. companies.

if I'm not mistaken, the cuts are to medicare Advantage, which is basically the same as medicare only more expensive and more profitable to private ins. companies.

Not the whole story, only part of the cuts are to Medicare Advantage. 10 million people are on Medicare Advantage since it offers additional benefits to seniors that they otherwise would have to purchase Medicare supplements for. So yes, those people would see reduced benefits. The rest of the cuts are supposed cost savings that Congress was supposed to implement over the past 10 years but have not. Each year they are supposed to cut payments to doctors by about 3 pct, but since they havent now the cut is supposed to be 21 pct. Since they dont want to implement a cut just as they are trying to get doctors on board, the cuts are now scheduled to be 25pct in 2011. But Congress has already found away around that cut by sponsoring a separate bill that will give the cuts back and since the bill is separate from the healthcare reform bill Congress can then say that the bill is deficit neutral. So while many people want reform most dont want to be taxed for it in any shape manner or form, forcing Congress to come up with accounting magic to pay for it.

Kathleen, why don't you just admit that you support the bill because you think it will lead to you having "free" health care.

Ryan. Let's put on our thinking caps. We'll do it together. I'll be the grownup. As a grownup, our family of four now pays $1,300 per month for insurance. We each have a deductible of about $1,000. We have a twenty percent co-pay. My own plan is extra-special because I couldn't get private insurance. I have....... Drumroll please.... High cholesterol. Insurance companies no likee that. So, I have a state-sponsored plan ($600/month just for moi).

Last year, our total health care expenses were $22k. That is about one-third of our income. Now, do you think we really used up $22,000 worth of services? (Remember, you are wearing your 'thinking cap'.) Lemme tell ya something - we didn't.

Now, another thing. Pay attention.

Have you ever spoken to a British doctor? I have the good fortune to be married to a Brit. His whole family lives in the UK and are very happy with their health care. (His grandson had cancer and just think, the kid's mom didn't lose her home or anything to pay the bills. They could even afford groceries). Here's the thing - doctors' offices in the UK are not full of administrators looking busy, walking around with files, spending hours on the phone dicking around with insurance companies. Because.... Drumroll please.... It's unnecessary. No bureaucracy, no administrators.

Simple stuff.

Kathleen

I will support my argument with an opinion piece that I seeded earlier today from the Chicago Tribune: here

Kathleen, your point just proves my point even more. Your looking for the government to take money from other tax payers to subsidize your health care cost's.

And yes I do know people in Britain, and had a friends dad die of a simple heart problem that if they were not so backed up, he would have lived. They sent him home because they said it wasn't bad enough, and he died. Wouldn't have happened here in the US, that's for sure.

Wouldn't have happened here in the US, that's for sure.

I'm not so sure about that.

The emergency rooms near me are backed up and it is quite common to be told to go see your doctor in the morning.

I'm not speaking to the exact circumstances of your friends father since I don't know them, but we have a lot of the side effects of a stressed and broken system here already.Emergency rooms are often a nightmare. They are jammed with people without insurance and the triage process is in a hurry to send people home.

What we have is broken. With or without a reform bill, the insurance companies are promising to dramatically raise rates next year. My copays have gone up sharply in the last few years. The premiums, which my employer still pays have come at the expense of salary increases.

The ability to choose your own doctor is often within limits. A lot of plans are HMOs, you have very little choice then. WIth a PPO you can go out of the network, but it will be discouragingly expensive. I think a single payer system like Canada has would go a long way to split the difference between what Britain has and what we currently have. We could probably set it like a national Preferred Provider Organization. People could choose to go out the network if they wanted, but there would be little reason to. If the system was large enough there could be enough carrots and sticks so that doctors would have overwhelming incentive to participate.

We don't get put on a list to have surgery here in the US. If you need any type of scan, no list as well. Need an MRI, you can have one tomorrow.

We don't get put on a list to have surgery here in the US. If you need any type of scan, no list as well. Need an MRI, you can have one tomorrow.

Well maybe instant gratification is part of the problem.

Well maybe instant gratification is part of the problem.

Have you even had an MRI, been put under for surgery? Neither of those are a very gratifying procedure. But something like an MRI and other scans/tests are key to early detection for a myriad of diseases. Early detection for many things would help keep health care costs down.

Not saying that it actually works, but the theory behind it is sound.

Instant gratification? Sorry but that has to be one of the most .... replies I have ever seen. When you have a problem with an important part of your body, it needs to be fixed now, not a month from now, when your to ill or already dead.

Typical liberals, nothing but uninformed responses.

I call B.S. to your B.S. NO one understands the bill...

Why do you say that?

The legal implications have not been tested in courts, we don't have a test area to see what the problems would be on a nation wide scale, it keeps changing, they add to it all the time, changing word that change the meaning of that section, which in turn changes another section. so on and so on and so on.

I have read it 3 times and see BIG problems...

Gulliver, a word about the author of that article:

Grace-Marie Turner is president and founder of the Galen Institute, which is funded in part by the pharmaceutical and medical industries.

Don't be so quick to take everything at face value.

According to Galen's 2005 report to the Internal Revenue Service (IRS form 990), the organization had $695,022 in income and $607,615 in expenses that year. Turner's compensation for an estimated 60 hours per week of work at Galen was $180,000

Ryan, you must be kidding. In this country, wealth equals health. Got good insurance? You can have an MRI ($260 co-pay in my case). Tomorrow? Uh, no. I had to wait two months.

Don't have good insurance? Drop dead. Seriously.

It's great that you have such faith in your country but a ot of it is blind.

Well Kathleen,

The observation that paying for this health care "reform" is in part going to be done by cutting funding to Medicare isn't an opinion, it's more of a fact. The cuts to Medicare are in the bill.

Now you can blame the messenger if you want and you can put AARP on some sort of saintly pedestal if you want. That is up to you.

Articles in The Nation have pointed out this problem with cuts to Medicare as well. They are just about as progressive a source you will find. They have also pointed out the conflict of interest that AARP has since it is in the business of selling supplemental insurance.

The health insurance industry has painted us in to a corner with Obama's help. The health care bill is a gift to insurance companies and they are opposing it in part to create the illusion that it is bad for them. However, if it goes down they will just accelerate the rate at which they raise premiums. They win either way.

How did it come to this? Obama and the Blue Dogs. Look no further than Rahm Emanuel for proof that Obama is basically a Blue Dog himself.

Obama is scamming us. He is using the Republicans as a stage prop so under the guise of "compromise" he can sell the people out to the health insurance industry. By the time most people figure out what he has done to us, he will be writing his memoir.

Nearly all of the players in this process are corrupt and I am including Obama in that condemnation.

Gulliver,
I hear a lot of complaining about how Medicare is headed for bankruptcy someday. Perhaps this is a way of keeping it afloat? They don't want to charge the seniors more money for Medicare per se, but for supplemental insurance. That may be the only to keep the whole shebang from going under.

That's just a guess on my part.

Kathleen, I had an MRI on my knee recently and was able to get in a week, it had more to do with my schedule that it wasn't sooner. But then again, I'm not lying to push an agenda like you are. I had to pay 10%, and I didn't complain, because nothing is for free, like people like yourself would like.

If we were to go to a fee for service style like Medicare, you would still have to pay 20% just like the seniors do. But it's from the government, so you'll probably love it.

Kathleen

You don't protect a fund from going bust by cutting funds to it.

My intuition tells me that one of the problems that Medicare has is that it only insures old people. That leads me to believe that a way to strengthen it would be to extend its eligibility pool to include younger people.

If we were to go to a fee for service style like Medicare, you would still have to pay 20% just like the seniors do. But it's from the government, so you'll probably love it.

Honestly, if we had a universal system that paid 80%, it would be an improvement over what we have. It would also leave room for employers to offer insurance plans that cover the other 20%.

I think fee for service is part of the problem and if doctors were employed directly by hospitals and clinics instead of freelancing we might begin to get a handle on the escalating costs.

Gulliver, well said.

Ryan, you accuse me of lying. If I gave a damn, I'd ask you to elaborate.

it's long and it's thick and we know how to use it

jealous?

Chuck101 supports the shortened GOP version with pictures and pop-outs, all 99 pages.

I would be embarrassed to even be standing next to it, let alone support it.

LMMBAO Rixar13!!!

"Pictures and pop-outs" *chuckle*

Chuck, I would be embarrassed to be afraid of a little reading. Perhaps you should get some meds for you ADD? (if your insurance company will let you that is (you do have insurance right?))

How many trees where destroyed making this bill? Three printed copies alone probably wiped out a forest somewhere in the world.

The devil is in the details, the bill is so large because of the bureaucratic nature of the congress.

Let me ask you Liberals something, have you tried try to get your swine flue shoot lately? Getting one is like winning the lottery. The government had over a year to prepare for this. If they cannot get the simple things like this right, how in the hell do you think they can manage healthcare for all Americans?

The simple answer is, they can't, but you guys don't care as long as the evil healthcare industry is punished.

OK, let the insults and personal attacks fly now.

Sure Eric. Now go back to sleep.

Not to mention that each "page" has only a paragraph or two written on it.

Simple solutions to complex issues tend to fail hard.

What's so freaking hilarious to me, is that people don't even know, or can't even calculate for THEMSELVES what 2000 pages looks like!

For crying out loud! who doesn't know how many sheets are in a ream of paper, or how tall a ream of paper stands?

It is really nice that you have insurance to cancel, and the option to get it somewhere else. The big lie is being told that the free market will provide insurance for Americans.

I paid fo my gub'mint cheeze. Put down your crack pipe brudda

Oh Mark, You do know that your Medicare is gov't run, don't you? And if so, why is it that can you have inexpensive gov't run healthcare and I, along with all others under 65, can't?

You lie brudda, Medicare is a Fee for service program with very little gub'mint oversite, a far cry from the gub'mint maze of bureaucracies and CZARS Pelosi & Obama wants. Oh and it'll be bankrupt in 8 years so let have Gub'mint run it all maybe it'll be BK in five years just before the first will be covered.

The Gub'mint plan cost over 2.5 trillion over ten years.

I gots no job but I's gots me sum Gub'mint cheeze. Um Um Um Barak Hussian Obama

Mark-302117

I paid fo my gub'mint cheeze. Put down your crack pipe brudda

You are a ignorant Racist or stupid, I am not sure which. Sense I don't know I just have to go by what you wrote and pick ignorance. But I could be wrong and it is both.

hvymtl83, because he paid in, what have you paid in to deserve something for nothing. Not to mention, did he have the option to not pay into medicare, NO! Also, do you think that people don't know that Medicare is Govt run, lefties amaze me.

I am so sick and tired of people that want something for free.

You are a ignorant Racist or stupid, I am not sure which. Sense I don't know I just have to go by what you wrote and pick ignorance. But I could be wrong and it is both.

True ignorance (and irony) is calling someone ignorant and not knowing how to spell since. Sense is to feel, smell, hear, taste, or see. Since is like because (among other things).

I am so sick and tired of people that want something for free.

Errr... like many of the government run free public services Americans rely on everyday?

Errr... like many of the government run free public services Americans rely on everyday?

Which ones would that be?

MJV in Wisconsin

You are a ignorant Racist or stupid, I am not sure which. Sense I don't know I just have to go by what you wrote and pick ignorance. But I could be wrong and it is both.

True ignorance (and irony) is calling someone ignorant and not knowing how to spell since. Sense is to feel, smell, hear, taste, or see. Since is like because (among other things).

I misspelled one word and he didn't spell one word right. Just shows your true feelings birds of feather. Things that make you go Hmm!!! That would be what I call ignorance.

I gots no job but I's gots me sum Gub'mint cheeze. Um Um Um Barak Hussian Obama

You're a sick human being. Is that what right-wing arguments come down to? "Socialism!" "Hussein!"

" inexpensive gov't run healthcare " Medicare is hardly 'inexpensive'.. roughly 40% of the cost of treating each Medicare patient is shifted to private insurance companies.... and when those private insurance companies are no longer around, having been driven from the marketplace, what then ?

Come on Badboy, name calling is for the weak minded, put down your bong and or crack pipe, oops, I must be weak. 2 plus 2 equals 4 not 45 million. It can't be done with out going to a mediocre or worst healthcare. Huge lines, huge delays and lots of rationing. Not only that but the current plan steals almost a trillion dollars from Medicare, how can AARP be on board with that and it cancels the Medicare Advantage plans these are the plans that we low to moderate income senor select because of their low or no cost. The rich get PPO plans or a Medicare supplement plans huge benefits and the ability to go to any Doctor any time and anywhere. For those of you that haven't guested but the PPO and Supplement Plans are what our Gum'mint Representatives give themselves.

You start the name calling with your reference to crack pipe. More name calling "Badboy" it is Bad1v so it just how weak is your little mind. Because you didn't like that I said it was nice that you have insurance you showed your ignorance. Well get over it. What I find amazing is that most of the people here that are against the Health care bill have insurance. And before you yes ask I do. I am a retired Law Enforcement Officer so I have it for the rest of my life.

So as to your statement that people want something for free, that does not apply to me and I am for the bill.

If your against a government run health care I know you refused Medicare?

OK. I am sorry BADTV. How weak am I, look, I am a Liberal " 2 trillion equals 1 trillion plus 560 billion plus 280 billion equals 1 Trillion.

Sorry I am not a liberal and for you mathematically challenged epso facto liberal that

2.84 Trillion dollars over ten years

BAD1V, why would someone refuse medicare, when they have already paid for it?

Or if someone wants to opt out of Medicare, will you support the government giving them back every dollar they put in with inflation and interest included.

Mark-302117

OK. I am sorry BADTV. How weak am I, look, I am a Liberal " 2 trillion equals 1 trillion plus 560 billion plus 280 billion equals 1 Trillion.

Sorry I am not a liberal and for you mathematically challenged epso facto liberal that

2.84 Trillion dollars over ten years

Instead of continuing with the silly name calling try proving those numbers. We both know you can't.

Ryan-

BAD1V, why would someone refuse medicare, when they have already paid for it?

Or if someone wants to opt out of Medicare, will you support the government giving them back every dollar they put in with inflation and interest included.

For the same reason that anyone who is eligible to receive insurance under the bill will have to pay for it. It is not free no matter what you heard. Read the bill. It is like Medicare will be a government run health care system only you pay as you go.

Then I expect the cost to be an average of the available plans on the market, no undercutting similar plans with the tax payers paying the difference.

If the govt wants to have a plan then it has to be ran like a business, with no assistance from the tax payers.

Have you read the bill? I did it took me 3 days because it was boring and I kept starting and stopping.

Ryan,

Any of us, including you, that are W-2 employees, are currently paying into the system, and have been our entire working lives. Your medicare deduction is your payment into the system. So at this point, those of us under age 65, most with children of our own, are getting nothing for something as far as medicare goes. I don't see a problem with expanding that coverage to the people who are paying into the system currently.

I am so sick and tired of people assuming that expanded healthcare coverage means "free healthcare."

Jullian, do you not understand that the money you pay into medicare is paying in advance for when you hit 65? I guess by your assumption you should be receiving your social security checks now too.

Face the fact, you want someone else to help you with your responsibilities.

Errr... like many of the government run free public services Americans rely on everyday?

There is NO Government run program that is free. Any Government program that is offered to the American TAX PAYER with no "out of pocket" expense is paid for with TAX money. Yours, mine, everyone's.

The US Government is just one giant bearucratic corporation. Weather or not we had a Republican or a Democrat in office it wouldn't matter. We would still end up with higher taxes, more Government intrusion into our personal lives, higher debt, and more greed. The problem is most people just vote for the status quo, expecting the Government to help "their" party.

The worst part is. It's not their fault! It OURS. The U.S. Citizen has allowed this diseased democracy spread into every nook and cranny of the United States. How many of us are there? How many politicians are there? Do the math. If even 1/4 of the people in the US grew a spine and told washington what we thought we could actually bring about "change".

Jullian, do you not understand that the money you pay into medicare is paying in advance for when you hit 65?

Wow. Is that ever wrong.

Ryan, when you pay your insurance premiums, do not understand that the risk of you becoming ill is spread among other customers? It is in the interests of the executives to minimize their own risk, whereby they reap huge rewards in the form of bonuses and obscenely large salaries.

A Medicare-type plan made widely available to all will eliminate the profit motive. Waste can be cut down, as can inefficiency.

What you are a proponent of is more of the same - the operative word being 'more' - for the insurance companies.

Oh Marky, Mark,

A quick google will reveal the extent of the gov't oversight of Medicare. They run the whole prgram buddy. That's why there's a medicare.gov web site. And it's largely paid for by payroll taxes I pay. Those premiums and coinsurance you pay for Part B (and Part A if you had less than 40 quarters of taxable work) only cover part of the costs. Then there's a cost for the "Medi-gap" private insurance for costs that Medicare doesn't cover. My mother's on Medicare and I'm her guardian. I have some experience with how it works. It's still one helluva lot cheaper than the health insurance costs I and my employer pay. I bet you think the gov't doesn't run Social Security either. I've met quite a few who think Medicare is som private insurance thing. How do you go thru life that stoopid? Amazing.

Buckeye, please inform me why that is wrong. Because at this point I'm not so sure that you even know what your talking about.

Kathleen, yes I do know how insurance works, I work in the industry. Do you even know how a managed care plan works, compared to Medicare? From a business side of things.

Who makes the decision of what to becomes included in a government system? It's crooked politicians that receive money from companies that what their item/service included. Personally I would rather have my plan make a profit, then have a crooked politician run my health care. At least then I have a choice.

can we say blinders on?

anyone?

I thought the left was all against anything that had to do with Medical lobbing. Ohh...only if the are against you. lol

You mean all the x members are very sharp can't say much for the remaining membership maybe they'll catch on. It the new AARP CEO some guy with a briad and ponytail some Marxist, Lennenist or some other ism.

The Republicans are pushed to Minuteman status trying to protect freedom and liberty from the Democrat Tyranists taking over the private sector.

The majority of Americans support this bill, and the number grows everyday.

You aren't minutemen.. you are TERRORISTS..

You're the bad guys.. not the other way around.

This country wants this bill, and this country will get this bill..

You are full of yourself... yes sirree bob you are!!!!!!! Be careful what you ask for you just might get it... and then don't complain when it blows up in your face!!!! Change is a coming!!!!!!!!! Somehow I hope this atrocity gets defeated...

People want reform and competition, but they don't want a government option. It seems you lefties have your head in the sand.

The country doesn't want this bill. The country doesn't even know what the fork is in it, and neither does Pelosi, Reid, or Obama. The Democrat leadership is inept and its products will reflect their ineptitude. Kill the bills.

You aren't minutemen.. you are TERRORISTS..

Gee, that hurts. And I used to hold your kind in such deep respect, right up there with Castro, and Chavez, and Achmadinijad, and Mao, and Stalin and Lenin, and Hitler, the foreign Democrat party branch heads. Maybe you'll get your party's way and they'll give you your dream job working the crematoriums for the senior victims of ObamaCare and maybe someday for the Democrat purge of the Republicans.

You sir are a poor misguided individual...

The Republicans are pushed to Minuteman status trying to protect freedom and liberty

Please, don't hide behind the actual Minutemen who assembled on the Lexington Green, those jokers on the Mexican border and the drama-queens running the Republican blocs in Congress don't deserve the association.

The Democrats are trying to keep people from DYING from someone else's greed and apathy. Do you think a wife should continue to be denied care because getting beaten up by her husband is a 'pre-existing condition'?

People WANT the option, and once the option comes and the hysteria about evil government ends, people will embrace something like single-payer. Get comfortable, the future is coming. The grossly inefficient American patchwork system is coming to an end.

The Democrats are trying to keep people from DYING from someone else's greed and apathy.

They are going to keep them from dying by killing them before disease and treatment expense can set in.

The Republicans are pushed to Minuteman status trying to protect freedom and liberty from the Democrat Tyranists taking over the private sector.

I'd rather give my money to the government in exchange for health care than give it to an insurance company in exchange for a booklet that lists 10,000 conditions they won't cover.

"This country wants this bill, and this country will get this bill.." Be careful what you wish for....

I'd rather give my money to the government in exchange for health care than give it to an insurance company in exchange for a booklet that lists 10,000 conditions they won't cover.

NC Obama supporter, My sentiments exactly. Somebody has to set limits and controls but I would rather have the government do it, than some for-profit insurance company. Hopefully this would be a first step towards single-payer system. Then we will have true reform.

If you were giving your own money it would be a little different. Liberals want others to give money to buy liberals their insurance, while also relieving others of their liberties and freedoms in choosing their own insurance and doctors and hospitals.

while also relieving others of their liberties and freedoms in choosing their own insurance and doctors and hospitals.

Explain how any of the proposals on the table, including single payer which isn't, would take away a person's ability to choose their own doctor or hospital?

What stupid talking points.

All government "benefits" come with strings and adverse consequences. You'd better believe your options will be restricted, not just what doctors and hospitals are availbale to you, but when you will be able to utilize them. Does the government VA medical system choose the doctors and hospitals for veterans? You obviously have no idea about government medicine and just how far elitist politicians will go to control people and save money.

It is rather difficult to make low thinking Americans understand the implications of the liberal Democrat statist takeover of health care. You just stick to trusting the inept and dishonest Obama/Reid/Pelosi talking points while they enslave you. You deserve it.

Your just parroting ideology that is disconnected from the inner workings of the bills that are actually being proposed.

The only loss of liberty on the table is your ability to say "Screw it. I don't want to buy health care."

I do in fact have a problem with that because what the bills on the table mainly do is enhance the profits of the existing health care insurance companies while getting very little from them in return. And yes, the government is about to"touch our Medicare" as well. The big slashes in funding for Medicare will send seniors into financial crisis. I was hoping to live long enough to be a senior once with some optimism. Not anymore.

The real problem here is people listening to AM talk radio and marching with banners in the street against health care reform ideas that aren't even on the table. You get what you deserve if you listen to guys like Glenn Beck and Rush Limbaugh. You get ignorant.

If you were giving your own money it would be a little different. Liberals want others to give money to buy liberals their insurance, while also relieving others of their liberties and freedoms in choosing their own insurance and doctors and hospitals.

Plenty of liberals have health insurance, so don't even try to make it sound like you're some kind of hard-working, balls-to-the-wall American and liberals are a bunch of lazy people who deserve to be poor and die young. You have no idea what a diverse group you're dealing with when you talk about liberals.

You're already paying the bills of the uninsured and the people who have been dropped by insurance companies. What doctor are you going to choose when your insurance company drops you for not disclosing an episode of diarrhea or whatever nonsense they come up with to put another dime in the pockets' of their boards of directors?

The only loss of liberty on the table is your ability to say "Screw it. I don't want to buy health care."

That is a big one, but not the only one. We will have more compulsory reporting of more personal information than ever to the government. We will not be able to contract individually with doctors. We will not be able to say I'm ready to take what nature delivers, opt out of health care, without still paying for it. There will be a national formulary, so your drug choices will dwindle. You will not be able to anonymously receive health care. And trust me, the health care professionals will unionize and you'll never again have a traditional doctor-patient relationship. It will be all business and bankers hours.

The Obama government sure has been very successful at ginning up hate for insurers. The doctors and hospitals and drug makers are all next in line for demonization.

Anyone that SUPPORTS this cluster f**k of a bill from the House and Pelosi... has to be in league with the devil.

Yeah, God forbid we help poor people.

lolollollol1233, let me finish your sentence for you ...

Yeah, God forbid we help poor people

... at the expense of the other 75% of the population of the United States.

... at the expense of the other 75% of the population of the United States.

Really? I'd like to see some proof of this.

Yeah, God forbid we help poor people.

You can't help poor people without the government? I see, you need a source of funding so you can help them. You're all tapped out.

You can't help poor people without the government? I see, you need a source of funding so you can help them. You're all tapped out.

Pure capitalism leads to a system of reliance on material goods to the point where it grows increasingly difficult to sustain one's self, let alone poor people. Government has to correct the negative effects of widespread profit-seeking behavior because there is no other force capable of doing it.

What a crock. All of those using the government to tax their fellow man and redistribute it to themselves in the name of fairness are the greedy bastards seeking material goods, the easy way. Get a job, pay your own way, or accept your fate as a failure, a flop, a sandbag.

What a crock. All of those using the government to tax their fellow man and redistribute it to themselves in the name of fairness are the greedy bastards seeking material goods, the easy way. Get a job, pay your own way, or accept your fate as a failure, a flop, a sandbag.

Yes, they are greedy bastards, but you're talking about moochers, who comprise a very tiny portion of the population. Most people work; however, things are getting to the point where there are not enough jobs that pay enough to sustain even a modest lifestyle and this is because the super-wealthy 1% of the population have already redistributed all the wealth into their own pockets. The "get a better job" argument is not going to work if there aren't any better jobs out there.

Most people work; however, things are getting to the point where there are not enough jobs that pay enough to sustain even a modest lifestyle and this is because the super-wealthy 1% of the population have already redistributed all the wealth into their own pockets.

There are fewer jobs because the liberal Democrat government treats the business owners and executives like ship. They are the ones who paid for all the largesse the Democrats heap on their voters with taxpayer money. The American slugs have been living off the wealthy for generations. So now, after you've killed the golden gooses, you yell at their carcasses to cough up more tax money.

The "get a better job" argument is not going to work if there aren't any better jobs out there.

If you can get that message through to Obama, Reid and Pelosi, maybe they'll take their feet off the throat of America.

There are fewer jobs because the liberal Democrat government treats the business owners and executives like ship. They are the ones who paid for all the largesse the Democrats heap on their voters with taxpayer money. The American slugs have been living off the wealthy for generations. So now, after you've killed the golden gooses, you yell at their carcasses to cough up more tax money.

I agree that small and mid-sized business owners are taxed too much, but this is a failure of government in general to address the fact that we are no longer a country full of major corporations that employ US workers. This didn't start with recent Democratic policy.

The "tax breaks for the wealth create jobs" policy that started with Reagan was worth a try in 1980. However, the handful of billion-dollar corporations the tax breaks apply to today aren't hiring anyone in the US anymore. Instead, they have globalized to the point where our tax breaks for the wealthy are basically creating jobs in China or Mexico, not the US.

The multinational corporations give our tax dollars to foreign countries and then we have no choice but to turn around and pay for the goods they produce at prices far above cost. I actually tried to buy only US-made goods for Christmas last year and all I could find in the $50 range were crafts. This kind of situation is not good for anyone except the people who are at the very top.

Why don't we cut our corporate tax rate to 10%, the lowest in the world? Bring back big corporations. Acknowledge they make contributions to America and they are not evil. Businesses leave because the enviornment is hostile AND costly.

Small businesses are taxed too much, by the way. Many are stuck here because of the nature of their service, but their opportunity for expansion is jjsut as limited by high costs and their impetus to expand and take risk is diminished by the hostile business enviornment created by government.

I hear what you are saying, and as I said above, I agree that small businesses are taxed too much.

Big corporations haven't left the United States nearly as much as they've sent jobs outside the United States. Even if Wal-Mart saves average families $200/week, or $10,400/year, the net loss to society is $20,000+ in income for every manufacturing job that they have forced overseas, and almost 100% of that loss to society ends up in the pockets of the Walton family and friends, because they're still charging market price, not market price less their foreign labor cost savings.

My point is not that corporations are inherently evil. It's just that a corporation that gets past a certain size begins to control the economic forces that, in theory, are supposed to keep it in check. Government needs to find incentives for corporations to employ more US workers and at the same time, get US workers to realize that they are going to have to get used to living on a lot less than they might have enjoyed 30 years ago. In short, the American dream needs to be revised to include happiness and good health, not a house, car and other material indicators so we can begin building a culture where wealth is not the only thing considered worth living for.

When our major corporations already evade nearly 100% of their taxes, why is reducing corporate taxes perceived as the solution for what ails America?

In short, the American dream needs to be revised to include happiness and good health, not a house, car and other material indicators so we can begin building a culture where wealth is not the only thing considered worth living for.

..that's hardly realistic. There is too much influence by corporate america to make us think otherwise.

Yes, please do that. Just make sure not to use any roads / water / electricity / police / firemen / military protection / traffic lights / the post office or any other government services. At all.

Deal?

Just make sure not to use any roads/traffic lights

Paid for by state and local taxes and car/drivers license registration

water

Paid for by my water bill.

electricity

Paid for by my bill, to a privately owned (publicly traded) utility company.

police / firemen

Local (County and State) property taxes.

military protection

Federal Income Tax

the post office

Up until a couple years ago it was self sustaining via postage and for the most part still is.

Hey lets call it "DEMOCRAZY CARE" thats catchy and is more accurate in its description....

The final death total was 13 with 31 wounded, and the shooter was an Army psychiatrist.

psychiatrist

Thank Comrade Obama for this one. A muslim guy did the killing.

That is the most ignorant remark I've read today. Let's see what troll can top it. Btw, comrade is a Russian word used in a derogatory fashion referring to communism, at least get your racial slurs right.

I sent AARP an email yesterday and told them you support this and you can cancel my membership right now, I saw some local people on the local news burning their AARP cards.