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Alleged Ft. Hood gunman may have 9/11 mosque link

Sun Nov 8, 2009 6:55 PM EST
us-news, us, shooting, fort-hood
Allen G. Breed, AP National Writer
The Army Chief of Staff is warning about reaching conclusions about motives in the Fort Hood killings. AP correspondent Ross Simpson reports.
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showing 1 of 17 photos
<p>Army Spc. Joseph Hernandez, of Dallas, worships during a church service at the First Air Calvary Division Memorial Chapel at Fort Hood, Texas on Sunday, Nov. 8, 2009.  (AP Photo/LM Otero)</p>

Army Spc. Joseph Hernandez, of Dallas, worships during a church service at the First Air Calvary Division Memorial Chapel at Fort Hood, Texas on Sunday, Nov. 8, 2009. (AP Photo/LM Otero)

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— A key U.S. senator said Sunday he would begin an investigation into whether the Army missed signs that the man accused of opening fire at Fort Hood had embraced an increasingly extremist view of Islamic ideology.

Sen. Joe Lieberman's call for the investigation came as word surfaced that Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan apparently attended the same Virginia mosque as two Sept. 11 hijackers in 2001, at a time when a radical imam preached there. Whether Hasan, an Army psychiatrist, associated with the hijackers is something the FBI will probably look into, according to a law enforcement official who spoke on condition of anonymity because the investigation is ongoing.

Classmates participating in a 2007-2008 master's program at a military college complained repeatedly to superiors about what they considered Hasan's anti-American views. Dr. Val Finnell said Hasan gave a presentation at the Uniformed Services University that justified suicide bombing and told classmates that Islamic law trumped the U.S. Constitution.

Another classmate said he complained to five officers and two civilian faculty members at the university. He wrote in a command climate survey sent to Pentagon officials that fear in the military of being seen as politically incorrect prevented an "intellectually honest discussion of Islamic ideology" in the ranks. The classmate also requested anonymity because the investigation is ongoing.

Lieberman, chairman of the Senate Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs Committee, wants Congress to determine whether the shootings constitute a terrorist attack.

"If Hasan was showing signs, saying to people that he had become an Islamist extremist, the U.S. Army has to have zero tolerance," Lieberman, an independent from Connecticut, said on "Fox News Sunday." "He should have been gone."

Authorities continue to refer to Hasan, 39, as the only suspect in the shootings that killed 13 and wounded 29, but they won't say when charges would be filed and have said they have not determined a motive. Hasan, who was shot by civilian police to end the rampage, was in critical but stable condition at an Army hospital in San Antonio.

He was breathing on his own after being taken off a ventilator on Saturday, but officials won't say whether Hasan can communicate. Sixteen victims remained hospitalized with gunshot wounds, and seven were in intensive care.

Hasan's family described a man incapable of the attack, calling him a devoted doctor and devout Muslim who showed no signs that he might lash out.

"I've known my brother Nidal to be a peaceful, loving and compassionate person who has shown great interest in the medical field and in helping others," his brother, Eyad Hasan, of Sterling, Va., said in a statement Saturday. "He has never committed an act of violence and was always known to be a good, law-abiding citizen."

Army Chief of Staff George Casey warned against reaching conclusions about the suspected shooter's motives until investigators have fully explored the attack. "I think the speculation (on Hasan's Islamic roots) could potentially heighten backlash against some of our Muslim soldiers," he said on ABC's "This Week."

Imam Johari Abdul-Malik, outreach director at the Dar al Hijrah Islamic Center, said he did not know whether Hasan ever attended the Falls Church, Va., mosque but confirmed that the Hasan family participated in services there. Abdul-Malik said the Hasans were not leaders at the mosque and their attendance was utterly normal.

In 2001, Anwar Aulaqi was an imam, or spiritual leader, at the mosque. Aulaqi told the FBI in 2001 that, before he moved to Virginia in early 2001, he met with 9/11 hijacker Nawaf al-Hazmi several times in San Diego. Al-Hazmi was at the time living with Khalid al-Mihdhar, another hijacker. Al-Hazmi and another hijacker, Hani Hanjour, attended the Dar al Hijrah mosque in early April 2001.

The mosque is one of the largest on the East Coast, and thousands of worshippers attend prayers and services there every week. Abdul-Malik said it's a mistake for people to conflate regular attendance at a mosque with extremism.

Many Muslims pray at the mosque multiple times a day, he said. "It's part of family life. It's like going out for ice cream after dinner."

A government official speaking on condition of anonymity because the person was not authorized to discuss the case said an initial review of Hasan's computer use has found no evidence of links to terror groups or anyone who might have helped plan or push him toward the attack. The review of Hasan's computer is continuing, the official said.

Hasan likely would face military justice rather than federal criminal charges if investigators determine the violence was the work of just one person.

There is no time limit on charging Hasan, but once he is in pre-trial confinement, the military has 120 days to start his trial, said John P. Galligan, an attorney who has represented Fort Hood soldiers but is not involved in the Hasan case. However, defense attorneys often file motions that stop the 120-day clock. Authorities have said Hasan is "in custody" in the hospital, but it's unclear if that is considered pre-trial confinement.

Across the sprawling post and in neighboring Killeen, soldiers, their relatives and members of the community struggled to make sense of the shootings. Candles burned Saturday night outside the apartment complex where Hasan lived. Small white crosses, one for each of the dead, dotted a lawn at a Killeen church on Sunday.

Even as the community took time to mourn the victims at worship services on and off the post, Fort Hood spokesman Col. John Rossi acknowledged that the country's largest military installation was moving forward with its usual business of soldiering. The processing center where Hasan allegedly opened fire on Thursday remains a crime scene, but the activities that went on there were relocated, with the goal of reopening the center as soon as Sunday.

Fort Hood is "continuing to prepare for the mission at hand," Rossi said. "There's a lot of routine activity still happening. You'll hear cannon fire and artillery fire. Soldiers in units are still trying to execute the missions we have been tasked with."

At the post's main church Sunday, Col. Frank Jackson, the garrison chaplain, asked mourners to pray for Hasan and his family "as they find themselves in a position that no person ever desires to be — to try and explain the unexplainable."

"Lord, all those around us search for motive, search for meaning, search for something, someone to blame. That is so frustrating," Jackson told a group of about 120 people gathered at the 1st Cavalry Memorial Chapel. "Today, we pause to hear from you. So Lord, as we pray together, we focus on things we know."

___

Associated Press writers Angela K. Brown and Jeff Carlton in Fort Hood and Pamela Hess, Devlin Barrett, Richard Lardner and Jessica Gresko in Washington contributed to this report.

© 2009 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.
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  • Allen G. Breed's Column, All of Newsvine
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  • Public Discussion (162)
Rick_VT

If it was someone other than Mr flip-floppy, today I'm a Republican, tomorrow a Democrat and Wednesday, I'm all Independent Joe Lieberman, I'd have a higher opinion of this approach. With Lieberman behind it, not so much.

  • 2 votes
Reply#1 - Sun Nov 8, 2009 7:18 PM EST
silver163

a better idea is to investigate what led up to the shooting then to try to find if something contributed or didn't. the idiot here just calling this out as a way to politicize it and try to gain some political ground. The inbred couldn't care less about what really occured and what steps to take to prevent something like this from happening again.

  • 4 votes
#1.1 - Sun Nov 8, 2009 8:03 PM EST
California Militia

the truth in the matter is if there was reason to be worried it would have been looked at as either racist or anti arabic...

the craziest ones seem normal up to the point where they snap...

There is no blame to be assigned other than random extremest.

  • 4 votes
#1.2 - Sun Nov 8, 2009 8:47 PM EST
cain398

And if the shooter was Christian, I'm sure Joe would investigate Christian extremists as well.

  • 1 vote
#1.3 - Sun Nov 8, 2009 10:44 PM EST
Clint-746036

I've said for most of my life that psychiatrists were to be feared.

  • 1 vote
#1.4 - Mon Nov 9, 2009 12:04 AM EST
American Spirit

Someone will try to turn this into a witch hunt toward Islam but it's not. That was not his driving force. All acts of terror are fueled by the rage from injustice, with the unjust war aganst those he identified with the force behind his horrific behavior. Bullied school shooters and employees going postal have similiar roots.

  • 1 vote
#1.5 - Mon Nov 9, 2009 1:27 AM EST
DonkeyRidder

Someone will try to turn this into a witch hunt toward Islam but it's not.

Here we go again. Pat downs and strip searches of kids and 90 years old ladies in wheelchairs looking for terrorists.

Shidiots.

  • 3 votes
#1.6 - Mon Nov 9, 2009 7:23 AM EST
swcityDeleted
Reply
Eric AlbertDeleted
Woodysr

Hey! That is just wonderful! The senators who have great difficulty policing themselves will investigate the Army! That will solve all the problems! And Lieberman is just the guy to lead it! (snort, giggle giggle)

  • 4 votes
Reply#3 - Sun Nov 8, 2009 7:37 PM EST
California Militia

at least in football, if you throw the red flag you can lose a time out. How bout each time one of these high and mighty.... cough cough.... call for an investigation, if nothing comes of it, they get investigated...

  • 2 votes
#3.1 - Sun Nov 8, 2009 8:49 PM EST
Reply
S. Elaine Jones

... and somebody oughta investigate Lieberman while they are investigating !!!!!!!!!!!

  • 2 votes
Reply#4 - Sun Nov 8, 2009 7:50 PM EST
indytx

It is about time something be done about the inability to see danger and evil instead of hiding behind some political correct wall. This politically correct crap led directly to the death of innocent unarmed people serving their country. Finally a Senator not beholding to the party wackos has the guts to investigate this misguided policy infiltrating our government and society.

  • 12 votes
Reply#5 - Sun Nov 8, 2009 7:56 PM EST
worldknightboy

Right on!

  • 5 votes
#5.1 - Mon Nov 9, 2009 12:52 AM EST
Reply
Max in MD

Not to ruffle any feathers here but ... I would have started investigating a former president as well when he started having conversations with 'God' regarding invading another country ... whatever.

  • 4 votes
Reply#6 - Sun Nov 8, 2009 7:56 PM EST
redphish

Some of the information being released does make it appear that there were warning signs that were overlooked or ignored. The best thing that could come from this episode is to see where anything can be done to make sure that if someone reports unusual behaviour, the reports are properly investigated.

  • 9 votes
Reply#7 - Sun Nov 8, 2009 8:05 PM EST
EllieP

Really? This story is about the call to discover whether this shooter was connected with a 9/11 mosque and all you all can do is rail on Lieberman?

  • 11 votes
#7.1 - Sun Nov 8, 2009 8:20 PM EST
swcityDeleted
EllieP

redphish, sorry my comment was erroneously attached to yours. It was meant to be in reply to #4. I agree with your post.

  • 3 votes
#7.3 - Sun Nov 8, 2009 8:39 PM EST
redphish

warning signs are irrelevant in a Marxist world

Since we don't live in a Marxist country, your comment is irrelevant.

    #7.4 - Sun Nov 8, 2009 8:42 PM EST
    redphish

    redphish, sorry my comment was erroneously attached to yours.

    I knew that.

    • 1 vote
    #7.5 - Sun Nov 8, 2009 8:45 PM EST
    swcityDeleted
    Reply
    john-482021

    We can't have an investigation into everything that happens. People just go off sometimes. I'm sure if this person had shown any signs of being a threat, he would have been reported and investigated by the military. After something like this happens, some people will come forward and say they knew he was nuts, but did they report him to authorities?? I believe some people just like to get on the news after the fact. As for Joe Lieberman, I agree with others here that he has no credability to comment on anything. How could someone like this even be in the senate?? An opportunist who is going to use this tragedy to make it look like he is concerned about something after he voted for the invasion of Iraq etc. that has left thousands dead unnecessarily. He has supported the lies about Iraq from day one I think. He along with many more in the prior administration should be on trial for treason instead of giving their worthless opinions about a tragedy like this. Our support of Israel is what should be investigated. That is what has caused all the trouble between us and the little bearded people in the middle east and elsewhere.

    • 3 votes
    Reply#8 - Sun Nov 8, 2009 8:35 PM EST
    vol fan in chatt, tn

    Our support of Israel is what should be investigated. That is what has caused all the trouble between us and the little bearded people in the middle east and elsewhere.

    why? they will do the heavy lifting when the rest of the world is scarred to death of these Musim extremists.

    Are you mad because they go in and clean out Hamas after a rocket is fired into their country?

    I hate to break it to you, but you are an enemy of the Muslim extremist. You are an infidel in their sight, and there no use for you or anyone else who is not a muslim, in some of their eyes. The little bearded people in the middle east, as you call them, have always been against us, and always will with or without Israel being in the middle.

    • 12 votes
    #8.1 - Sun Nov 8, 2009 9:01 PM EST
    swcityDeleted
    Reply
    redphish

    I'm sure if this person had shown any signs of being a threat, he would have been reported and investigated by the military.

    There is information coming out that some of his actions were reported. I think the investigations of these reports need to be reviewed to see if they were handled properly and if anything can be done to improve the way such reports are handled in the future.

    • 7 votes
    Reply#9 - Sun Nov 8, 2009 8:44 PM EST
    Ralph396

    The plot thickens. Muslims attending Radical Mosques and then going out and killing Americans.

    Where have I heard that before?

    • 7 votes
    Reply#10 - Sun Nov 8, 2009 8:54 PM EST
    becoolbiz001Deleted
    swcityDeleted
    Better Careful

    This man seems more disturbed than terrorist. Lieberman wants him to be a terrorist, I think, because the man's a Muslim. On this point the shooter is correct: the war on terror is a war against Muslims.

    Remember the reaction, the on-going reaction, to the anti-choice terrorists? They are considered to be examples of righteousness by many! Why? They're murderers, terrorists, and subversives who don't hesitate to break the law in order to frighten women and medical doctors! Yet they're applauded by many, some of whom work in government! What's up with that? I don't recall Lieberman calling for an investigation into the murder of Dr. Tiller; maybe he did, but I think I would have noticed, he's from my home state and I watch the snake closely, as one must watch snakes.

    Lieberman wants his terrorists to be Muslim. He wants his disturbed Muslim mass-murderers to be terrorists. That's what he does, that's who he is - our Senator from Tel Aviv.

      Reply#13 - Sun Nov 8, 2009 10:33 PM EST
      swcityDeleted
      Reply
      DonkeyRidder

      I hope it goes a little faster and a little deeper than the investigation into Charlie Rangel's tax cheating and multiple ethics lapses.

      • 4 votes
      Reply#14 - Sun Nov 8, 2009 10:35 PM EST
      vol fan in chatt, tn

      if it is against the military, it will go fast. The Dems give lip service, but can't stand them for the most part.

      • 5 votes
      #14.1 - Sun Nov 8, 2009 11:44 PM EST
      DonkeyRidder

      Yes, you are right, they will find a way to support the PC conclusion they've already reached, that Major Hasan was the victim and the dead and wounded soldiers simply collateral damage, of condoned systemic discrimination and harrassment that led to psychopatholgy that then justified the heinous act. Major Dr. Hasan will be judged the victim of Christian redneck bigots. No fault, no blame for his highest order radical Muslim allegiance.

      • 7 votes
      #14.2 - Sun Nov 8, 2009 11:54 PM EST
      redphish

      Your ability to predict the future is astonishing.

      • 2 votes
      #14.3 - Sun Nov 8, 2009 11:56 PM EST
      vol fan in chatt, tn

      that's because they make it so easy, and of course we have past history to determine how they will spin it...it's so easy you can do it without even thinking nowadays.

      • 4 votes
      #14.4 - Mon Nov 9, 2009 12:17 AM EST
      DonkeyRidder

      Would you care for a personalized reading?

      • 3 votes
      #14.5 - Mon Nov 9, 2009 12:18 AM EST
      swcityDeleted
      Reply
      mendy-1458689

      i just found out one of my good friends from the military was one the survuvors who were shot, I cant believe this. She said he walked in saying allah whatever and just started firing, no one moved at first they thought it was a stupid training mission that the army does, and then he killed the person next to her, the blood splattered on her, he emptied his clip someone said to get down and she moved and hid under a table and she caught his eye and he followed her and then he went to shoot her in the head , she moved and pulled her legs up and she ended up shot in the upper leg! We have to jion together and pray and YES this stuff is real. the news is making him out to be someone who was lonely and had no life, but what he was was a mass murder, and he didnt care. He thought he was doing right by allah!! Please if you can pass this on and everyone start standing up for what is right and dont let the news and the media and whoeverlse make him out to be someone he wasnt, He was not a good guy, he was a murderer, HE didnt care that we are americans, He didnt care what might happen to him, he just knew he would die. He was not nuts and the when he goes to court they will probably say he was mentally not stable, ASK THE VICTIMS!!!!

      • 7 votes
      #15 - Sun Nov 8, 2009 10:47 PM EST
      DonkeyRidder

      I hope your friend recovers without physical or mental scars. The leftists in this country are going to make every excuse for this radical Muslim terrorist. It would be amusing if it wasn't about barbaric butchering and Muslim betrayal of America, betrayal of fellow soldiers who would have given their lives to save him in battle but instead gave their lives to comply with political correctness (not worth one life ever), and the betrayal of good faith trust Americans gave this Muslim man after a series of brutal Muslim attacks against Americans and American assets.

      We must employ the wisdom of Reagan -- trust but verify. That goes down to the individual Muslim. Discrimination is not always wrong or bad. It could have saved thousands of lives, most recently 13 lives.

      • 8 votes
      #15.1 - Sun Nov 8, 2009 11:13 PM EST
      Xanthiana

      And the victims know exactly what went on inside his head? They miraculously could follow all his thoughts?

      While there is NO excuse for his actions, the blame game will not cut it either. The victims probably would have been served best if this whole thing never happened and in order to prevent it from happening again we can't sit back and blame Jihad, Muslim extremists or being un-American, we will actually have to invest time to find out WHY he did it.

      Just as a side note being lonely and becoming a murderer are not mutually exclusive, but most of your above statement is pure conjecture pulled out of a hat of bigotry and nothing more.

      All that being said I feel for the victims. It is difficult enough for military families, especially those families who had a loved one at that place, without people snapping and wantonly starting to shoot. Perhaps it is time that the military does review their support for their soldiers. Soldiers are not equipment that can be used and abused indefinitely, they do break at some point.

      • 1 vote
      #15.2 - Sun Nov 8, 2009 11:21 PM EST
      DonkeyRidder

      we can't sit back and blame Jihad, Muslim extremists or being un-American, we will actually have to invest time to find out WHY he did it.

      You've already betrayed your motives and allegiances. You are solely intersted in any excuse for why this was not a Muslim jihadist who picked the act of shooting defenseless soldiers, an act representing the greatest possible act of betrayal, the greatest possible act of cowardice, motivated by the choice of Islamic martydom fighting the great satan honoring his radical Muslim religion.

      We know why he did it. What needs to be investigated is why liberals refuse to accept the truth about the matter. That is the real psychopatholgy that puts us at great risk.

      • 5 votes
      #15.3 - Sun Nov 8, 2009 11:33 PM EST
      swcityDeleted
      silver163

      DonkeyRidder

      perhaps we should let the FBI and all other law enforcement agencies look into all of the possible motives and determine the correct one? Or are you truly wanting to bark something out whether it is true or not?

      • 3 votes
      #15.5 - Sun Nov 8, 2009 11:43 PM EST
      cain398

      How is a Muslim shooter worse than anyone else who has shot up a bunch of people in this country? All religions have extremists who kill in the name of their god.

      • 1 vote
      #15.6 - Sun Nov 8, 2009 11:52 PM EST
      redphish

      You've already betrayed your motives and allegiances. You are solely intersted in any excuse for why this was nota Muslim jihadist who picked the act of shooting defenseless soldiers, an act representing the greatest possible act of betrayal, the greatest possible act of cowardice, motivated by the choice of Islamic martydom fighting the great satan honoring his radical Muslim religion.

      No, what he is saying is we need to investigate the matter to determine exactly what happened, why it happened and, most importantly we can be done to try to prevent something like this from happening again.

      We know why he did it.

      You are just assuming that you know.

      What needs to be investigated is why liberals refuse to accept the truth about the matter. That is the real psychopatholgy that puts us at great risk.

      This is just a mindless ideological rant that adds nothing to any rational debate.

      • 2 votes
      #15.7 - Sun Nov 8, 2009 11:54 PM EST
      swcityDeleted
      silver163

      swcity

      everything that is coming out is coming out in driplets but nothing conclusive no final report. i said a final conclusive report needs to be made before everyone gets excited over something small.

      • 2 votes
      #15.9 - Sun Nov 8, 2009 11:57 PM EST
      DonkeyRidder

      Are you still studying why the 19 radical Muslims flew loaded passenger planes into occupied American buildings chanting ali crowbar? Have you come to some conclusions and taken some actions to prevent it again? Did the US military discriminate against them? Were they the victims of Jewish and Christian bigotry leading to psychopathology leading to suicide with major unintended collateral damage?

      You guys are unreal. I wish you were residents of another country or planet.

      • 6 votes
      #15.10 - Mon Nov 9, 2009 12:01 AM EST
      vol fan in chatt, tn

      Why does Congress feel the need to get their grubby paws into everything? They have held hearings on everything from steroids to hemorrhoids... they have way too much time on their hands. Why don't we save us, the taxpayers some money, and let these people only work part time (which is all they do now, but let's cut it back some more, obviously they have too much free time)?

      Like the rest of us who are struggling to get along, let them see what it feels like to get your hours cut and your salary cut in half, more work to do in less time, without the benefits such as the best healthcare and a doctor and staff on premises, retirement and pension, a nice cafeteria to eat in and cheaply, I might add, trips abroad at the taxpayer expense and and only working at best, about 6 months out of the year! Lets cut all their salaries and perks down to three months. Think of the money we could save?

      Ridiculous! Our elected officials have gotten too big for their britches, and look out over the land like the Lords instead of humble public "servants"!

      http://thehill.com/capital-living/57133-cupcakes-come-to-capitol-cafeteria

      • 4 votes
      #15.11 - Mon Nov 9, 2009 12:04 AM EST
      silver163

      DonkeyRidder

      so something that happened a few years ago and something that happened few days ago is the same amount of time to you? what if it was a christian? christians are here to destroy america?

      • 2 votes
      #15.12 - Mon Nov 9, 2009 12:07 AM EST
      vol fan in chatt, tn

      incredible! comparing Christians to muslims, now? This nation was founded upon Christian principles not sharia law, just so you know... The same set of principles that made those nutjobs kill 3,000 American is the same principle this nutjob had - kill the infidels. DUH!

      • 6 votes
      #15.13 - Mon Nov 9, 2009 12:10 AM EST
      silver163

      vol fan in chatt, tn

      0.o

      christian? oh right the freedom of religion part how could i not understand that lol

      perhaps you care to explain or no? is that impossible?

      • 1 vote
      #15.14 - Mon Nov 9, 2009 12:16 AM EST
      redphish

      Are you still studying why the 19 radical Muslims flew loaded passenger planes into occupied American buildings chanting ali crowbar? Have you come to some conclusions and taken some actions to prevent it again?

      That happened nearly 10 years ago and was thoroughly investigated. I'm sure there were things learned during that investigation that were helpful in preventing several attacks that were thwarted since then. Unfortunately, as long as there are people willing to commit acts such as this, the best we can do is stay vigilant and prevent the plots that we uncover.

      You guys are unreal. I wish you were residents of another country or planet.

      Tough @!$%#, I'm not going anywhere.

      • 2 votes
      #15.15 - Mon Nov 9, 2009 12:20 AM EST
      DonkeyRidder

      what if it was a christian? christians are here to destroy america?

      Believe it or not, if a man, who belonged to a know organization claiming to be a Christian sect that considered America to be the great satan, and which had a thousand year history of worldwide violence in the name of Jesus, and whose primary reference book contained verses where Jesus directed his followers to kill or enslave non-believers, and whose quickest route to heaven was in killing non-believers, and was heard to be chanting "Jesus loves me this I know" after hijacking a plane and murdering the crew and then ramming the plane into a building full of people, or shooting multiple unarmed Americans in the name of Jesus, I would scrutinize his church and his church associates, and all avowed belivers in that sect would get heavy discriminatio and I would blame the act on his religious beliefs. You betcha.

      • 5 votes
      #15.16 - Mon Nov 9, 2009 12:28 AM EST
      vol fan in chatt, tn

      Silver,

      not so hard...actually. Too bad they didn't teach this to you in school..

      Take a look at the Declaration of Independence, the U.S. Constitution, most all state constitutions, most all inaugural addresses, speeches of our founding fathers, national symbols, and even Washington D.C. architecture. They all stand as testaments to our Christian heritage.

      The U.S. Constitution in the Bill of Rights does address religion, but not in the context of something that should be removed from American life; rather, as something that should be part of it. The First Amendment states: “Congress shall make no laws respecting the establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof ...” When studying the framers’ intent and records associated with the deliberations to establish the Constitution, it is clear the first half of that phrase is not meant to remove God from American life, but to keep one Christian religion from being elevated over another by establishing it as the official “state” religion, as had been done with the Anglican Church in England.

      The second half of that phrase makes it clear that the American government was not to interfere with the free exercise of religion. Rather than prohibiting religion in the affairs of men, they were in essence promoting and encouraging it. Additionally, when taken in the historical context of the day, it is also clear the founders were referring to the Christian religions that were established in the thirteen colonies. As evidence, consider the quote by founder George Mason: “All men have equal, natural and inalienable right to the free exercise of religion, according to the dictates of conscience; and no particular sect or society of Christians ought to be favored or established by law in preference to others.”

      Here's a few more:

      James Madison (our 4th President) called for a National Day of Prayer: “If the public homage of a people can ever be worthy of the favorable regard of the Holy and Omniscient Being to whom it is addressed, it must be guided only by their free choice. By the impulse of their hearts and the dictates of their consciences; and such a spectacle must be interesting to all “CHRISTIAN” nations as proving that religion, that gift from Heaven for the good of man…”

      George Washington, the Father of our Country, required all Officers and Soldiers, not engaged on actual duty, a punctual attendance of Divine Services, to implore the blessings of Heaven upon the means used for our safety and defense. “The General hopes and trusts, that every officer and man, will endeavor so to live, and act, as becomes a “CHRISTIAN” Soldier, defending the dearest Rights and Liberties of his country.”

      It is often stated that Thomas Jefferson was a Deist, however on April 21, 1803 he wrote the following: “My views are the result of a life of inquiry and reflection, and very different from the ANTI-CHRISTIAN system imputed to me by those who know nothing of my opinion. To the corruptions of Christianity, I am indeed opposed, but not to the genuine precepts of Jesus Himself, I am a “CHRISTIAN” in the only sense in which He wished any one to be - sincerely attached to His doctrines in preference to all others.” Jefferson, along with the majority of America’s founders knew that freedom was the gift of God, not the accomplishment of men."

      Sad, you did not learn this in the government school. I guess when they kicked God out of the public schools in 1963, they also tossed out a HUGE part of our heritage with it. Of course, I could also add plenty of the common sense laws they had which correlated to the Bible, but you probably won't believe that either...thou shalt no kill, honor they father and thy mother, thou shalt not steal, thou shalt not lie...you know, those sort of things.

      • 3 votes
      #15.17 - Mon Nov 9, 2009 12:42 AM EST
      cain398

      So before Jesus came along everybody thought it was ok to kill, steal, lie, etc? These concepts are VERY pre-Christian.

        #15.18 - Mon Nov 9, 2009 1:11 AM EST
        vol fan in chatt, tn

        uh, cain, who was here before God? Nobody. Besides I said:

        I could also add plenty of the common sense laws they had which correlated to the Bible,

        why is that so hard to understand? Talk about twisting things...sheeze!

        • 3 votes
        #15.19 - Mon Nov 9, 2009 1:59 AM EST
        cain398

        Most of the stories and lessons from the Old Testament are just rehashed from other religions long before the OT was written. Sorry I don't have specific links to refer to, but you can easily google that. Christians think they own all the goodness in the world. My point is that even if Atheists founded this country, we would still have the same common sense laws.

        • 2 votes
        #15.20 - Mon Nov 9, 2009 2:28 AM EST
        vol fan in chatt, tn

        Most of the stories and lessons from the Old Testament are just rehashed from other religions long before the OT was written.

        wow, you obviously haven't looked at the dates and the archeological records that confirm that the Bible was written long before the "other religions"?

        Christians think they own all the goodness in the world. My point is that even if Atheists founded this country, we would still have the same common sense laws.

        no, I don't think so. The first statement is your opinion, to which you are entitled. People are generally good, whether Christians or not because we are born with an innate sense of right and wrong, which was given to us by the Creator. Though, with the philosophy of relativism, that is quickly eroding. Secondly, many many laws and the punishment for them, were specific and almost word for word of the OT, I gave but a few examples.

        • 3 votes
        #15.21 - Mon Nov 9, 2009 9:28 AM EST
        silver163

        vol fan in chatt, tn

        amazing...not a lick of a source :)

        even if what you say is true, it doesn't establish anything. you presume they talk about the christian god and that is it. though there is not a thing to reference the christian religion. yet you take something very general, form it into something more specific and pronounce it to be the truth. stupid just plain stupid really.

        lol vol fan in chatt please cite sources. you make such claims and not a proof of a source is ridiculous now.

        • 1 vote
        #15.22 - Mon Nov 9, 2009 10:25 AM EST
        DonkeyRidder

        everything that is coming out is coming out in driplets but nothing conclusive no final report. i said a final conclusive report needs to be made before everyone gets excited over something small.

        The final report coming from the Obama government on this matter will be good only for a few butt wipes.

        We are at war with radical Islam and radical Marxism.

        • 2 votes
        #15.23 - Mon Nov 9, 2009 2:34 PM EST
        vol fan in chatt, tn

        what? no sources from you -"you can easily google it" yourself.

        you make such claims and not a proof of a source is ridiculous now

        Don't call me down for having no references, when you did not. How funny.

        turn about is fair play, don't you think? You threw something out there to see what would stick - as you did first and I quote:

        Most of the stories and lessons from the Old Testament are just rehashed from other religions long before the OT was written. Sorry I don't have specific links to refer to, but you can easily google that.

        • 2 votes
        #15.24 - Mon Nov 9, 2009 2:39 PM EST
        Dennis P. McCannDeleted
        DonkeyRidder

        We are at war with a Muslim religion faction, that's who is behind Al Qaeda and the Taliban, and Major Dr. Hasan.

        America is at war with Marxism, with Obama, Reid, and Pelosi leading the Marxist assault against America. They are radicals willing to sacrifice themselves politically to spread their philosophy and convert conservatives infidels or subjugate them. Pelosi sent out her Democrat Representative comrades to the HoR Saturday to get the Assault on Health Care bill passed, using dozens and dozens of the Democrat Marxists who blew up their careers on the floor of the HoR in a suicidal assault intended to politically change America forever and to break America's will to fight back against Obama.

        • 1 vote
        #15.26 - Mon Nov 9, 2009 3:04 PM EST
        Dennis P. McCannDeleted
        silver163

        The final report coming from the Obama government on this matter will be good only for a few butt wipes.

        Obama has nothing to do with the report...

        I believe DonkeyRidder is just a troll.

        • 3 votes
        #15.28 - Mon Nov 9, 2009 3:23 PM EST
        DonkeyRidder

        That's insane. America is not 'at war' with it's leadership, who are not Marxists, nor are we at war with that or any other political theory.

        You not only don't recognize the Muslim enemy and its threat, you don't recognize the Marxist enemy and its threat. We were in a cold war with Marxism with the USSR and China, and that cold war with Marxism has moved internal, on our own soil. Obama is a die hard leftist Marxist. Pelosi is a dopey Marxist Obama groupie. Reid is a puppet with regressing mental capacity, probably several hands up him causing his moves.

        Liberals have declared war on capitalism, freedom, and liberty, i.e., they have declared war on traditional America. Don't be surprised that some people will defend traditional America very vigorously.

        • 2 votes
        #15.29 - Mon Nov 9, 2009 3:26 PM EST
        silver163

        what? no sources from you -"you can easily google it" yourself.

        you make such claims and not a proof of a source is ridiculous now

        Don't call me down for having no references, when you did not. How funny.

        turn about is fair play, don't you think? You threw something out there to see what would stick - as you did first and I quote:

        Most of the stories and lessons from the Old Testament are just rehashed from other religions long before the OT was written. Sorry I don't have specific links to refer to, but you can easily google that.

        You truly have issues reading I didn't write the second part. Two you make claims you cannot support.

        • 2 votes
        #15.30 - Mon Nov 9, 2009 3:29 PM EST
        HereIAm-1409238

        I think we should declare Christianity the only religion allowed in the US. All others, get out. What? Well, that's what is happening in most Islamic countries! You cannot worship as you please.

        • 1 vote
        #15.31 - Mon Nov 9, 2009 5:12 PM EST
        Dennis P. McCannDeleted
        silver163

        VERY Concerned-1409238

        wow ok and I care? Nope I don't. The US has a constitution that gaurantees freedom of religion. but hey as a republican you hate the constitution :)

        • 1 vote
        #15.33 - Mon Nov 9, 2009 5:40 PM EST
        silver163

        This after I just accurately identified the actual threat, using the proper terms.

        Lol i love that...that's why i think he is just a troll...even the most rabid gop members won't tell you that you are clueless after you specifically pointed out something unless they have other material you didn't include. but this lol wow.

        • 1 vote
        #15.34 - Mon Nov 9, 2009 5:54 PM EST
        HereIAm-1409238

        hey as a republican you hate the constitution :)

        Hey, your crystal ball told you I was a Republican. Clean it!;0)

        • 1 vote
        #15.35 - Mon Nov 9, 2009 7:31 PM EST
        silver163

        VERY Concerned-1409238

        oh right an "independent" give me a break.

        • 1 vote
        #15.36 - Mon Nov 9, 2009 8:46 PM EST
        DonkeyRidder

        This after I just accurately identified the actual threat, using the proper terms.

        I wouldn't trade an Obama buck for your assessment. You don't get to set the "terms" we use to describe our enemy and you don't get to choose who is the enemy of America. And neither does the enemy or the enemy's sympathizers. You are at war with no one. All I've heard from you is butt-kissing of our enemies and lame excuses for a religion that won't police its own ranks. You are a professional appeaser, a source of danger for my country.

          #15.37 - Mon Nov 9, 2009 10:31 PM EST
          silver163

          DonkeyRidder

          What are you talking about? The user applied some knowledge to describe who the actual enemy is, you on the other hand just yell "shoot anything that moves" pretty idiotic way to describe anything in such general terms. Yet if anything you seem to be defining the terms just that facts and knowledge are against you.

          i wonder what makes the whole muslim religion an enemy, i mean i don't see you shouting christians are terrorists even though we had numerous terrorist attacks by people in that group as well.

          • 2 votes
          #15.38 - Mon Nov 9, 2009 11:38 PM EST
          Dennis P. McCannDeleted
          DonkeyRidder

          The user applied some knowledge to describe who the actual enemy is,

          So Dennis P. McCann knows that Major Dr. Hasan, every Muslim suicide bomber, every Muslim car bomber, every jihadist trying to kill our Soldiers in Iraq and Iran, every planner and schemer of 9/11, every sympathizer or radical Muslim, and every Muslim donating funds to the radical Islam element is a Wahabbist? That is a liberal apologist appeaser sack of ship attempt at political correctness of astronomical proportion. You guys remain dangerous and those thoughts and policies are what led to the deaths of 13 soldiers at Fort Hood. Congratulations on your appeasement outcome.

          • 1 vote
          #15.40 - Tue Nov 10, 2009 9:17 AM EST
          silver163

          DonkeyRidder

          no but the CIA does and so does the FBI, cause if you are going to war with any group of people you want to make sure you strike a direct and concise target, you don't just randomly attack everything that moves as you continue to push towards.

          You don't need to know every single individual you need to study and follow who teaches what and who is tied with who. Doing so reveals a trend essentially a pattern that can determine which group is the enemy and which isn't. Essentially you want to kill all muslims under the guise of terrorism even if there is one group of the muslim faith that are the actual terrorists.

          • 1 vote
          #15.41 - Tue Nov 10, 2009 2:27 PM EST
          Dennis P. McCannDeleted
          DonkeyRidder

          Essentially you want to kill all muslims under the guise of terrorism even if there is one group of the muslim faith that are the actual terrorists.

          You are maliciously attributing to me a desire to kill all Muslims. That is false. You should be ashamed. I want the Muslims who truly despise this violent sect to rise up and deal with it. Instead they give lip service but continue to allow them in their ranks and allow their tithings to fund terrorist activities. I want all persons, Muslims, Christians, Jews, liberals, appeasers, toleraters, Democrats, foreigners, domestics, who willfully give comfort and aid to the radical Muslim enemy in this time of war to suffer severe consequences.

          • 3 votes
          #15.43 - Tue Nov 10, 2009 2:50 PM EST
          Dennis P. McCannDeleted
          worldknightboy

          I want all persons, Muslims, Christians, Jews, liberals, appeasers, toleraters, Democrats, foreigners, domestics, who willfully give comfort and aid to the radical Muslim enemy in this time of war to suffer severe consequences.

          Most heartily agree! Furthermore, lets make sure ALL peoples of the world get complete freedom, democracy, secularism, equal rights, certainly freedom of religion and freedom to worship in ALL nations without oppression or prejudice, and the chance to pursue happiness!

          • 2 votes
          #15.45 - Tue Nov 10, 2009 4:13 PM EST
          silver163

          worldknightboy

          how about get that here in the states first?

          • 2 votes
          #15.46 - Tue Nov 10, 2009 4:52 PM EST
          DonkeyRidder

          What do you expect of him?

          Working on the presumption he would learn of the current events, I expect him and the members of his Mosque to publically, loudly, and sincerely condemn the act, make sure no money from their Mosque goes to the Taliban or Al Qaeda, start a charitable entity to give money to the families of the victims of radical Islam, and make it known that any Muslim killing innocent men, women, or children infidels does not really get 72 virgins and will likely go to hell, not the gardens fed by streams as is prommised. I would like for him tell his fellow Muslims that the Taliban and Al Qaeda are evil and should be shunned, and in fact shun them.

          Until the peaceful Muslims make the radical Muslim element absolute outcasts and a permanent source of scorn, and clarify that their acts will not be rewarded by Allah, and quit teaching their kids that certain acts of killing is one path to heaven, this crap is going to continue until eternity or until there is only one man standing.

          • 1 vote
          #15.47 - Tue Nov 10, 2009 4:56 PM EST
          Dennis P. McCannDeleted
          DonkeyRidder

          So now you know every Sufi and his/her activities. Great.

          All I can tell you is that if anyone claiming to be a Muslim and who holds that religion dear in their heart doesn't assist with the elimination of the radical militant Islam, they will get wrapped up in the conflict one way or another, as colateral involvement or as an eventual target of radical Islam.

          I could as easily as you go read about the various factions and sects and cliques of the Muslim religion and act like some kind of world expert on that religion, like you, but I'm not interested. It is useful only as fog.

          Sufism makes Buddhism look savage by comparison.

          I recall some pretty vicious fights involving Buddhists recently. Those peaceful Muslims need to get a little of that spark in protecting their religion.

          • 1 vote
          #15.49 - Tue Nov 10, 2009 5:58 PM EST
          silver163

          So now you know every Sufi and his/her activities. Great.

          lol donkeyridder, so now we can say that there are Jews that eat pork as well? :D

          so donkeyridder, the different sects of a religion confuse thus we must destroy anyone in that religion?

          oh and about loudly saying how wrong that is, you don't give a damn. my source? this whole story with ft. hood and how all muslims here are enemies even though many decried this act as stupid. :)

          • 1 vote
          #15.50 - Tue Nov 10, 2009 6:23 PM EST
          Dennis P. McCannDeleted
          DonkeyRidder

          I believe what is occurring, not your pathetic efforts to excuse Muslim aggression. You believe what you read or hear from your very narrow minded apologist appeaser analysts. Your brand of smarts about Islam gets Americans and peaceful Muslims killed and creates pea soup fog in front of your eyes. My smarts about Islam would have prevented the Fort Hood attacks, saved Muslim lives, and give crystal clarity to important issues. You stick with your suicidal smarts and I'll stick with my survival smarts.

          • 2 votes
          #15.52 - Wed Nov 11, 2009 2:05 PM EST
          Dennis P. McCannDeleted
          worldknightboy

          Great points as always, DonkeyRidder!

          • 2 votes
          #15.54 - Wed Nov 11, 2009 5:26 PM EST
          Dennis P. McCannDeleted
          bigdog107

          Donkey: We are at war with a Muslim religion faction,

          McCann: Al Qaida and the Taliban are Wahabbists. Not all Wahabbists are violent, and majority of Islam is not Wahabbist

          McCann: So why not be accurate? We're at war with two large terrorist groups.

          Al Qaida, which is global, and the Taliban in Afghanistan. Both are the
          extreme right wing of the Wahabbist sect (which is itself pretty
          extreme right wing). The fact is...we're not at war with any other
          Muslims sects, groups or beliefs.

          McCann: This after I just accurately identified the actual threat, using the proper terms.

          McCann: Years of education that you unfortunately lack.

          If your so educated McCann, why would you tell Donkey he's wrong for saying 'Muslim religion faction'. While you claim to use the proper terms 'Wahabbist sect'.

          OneLook Dictionary Quick Definition Faction: a dissenting clique

          OneLook Dictionary Quick Definition Sect: a dissenting clique
          I call bullcrap, Wahabbist's are a faction of the Muslim religion. Lets use it in a sentence.
          -- New Jerusalem with Apocrypha
          1 Corinthians 11:18 In the first place, I hear that when you all come together in your assembly, there are separate factions among you, and to some extent I believe it.

            #15.56 - Wed Nov 11, 2009 8:28 PM EST
            bigdog107

            Oh, and in case you didn't catch it in our sentence, even within an assembly (Wahabbists) there can be separate factions.

              #15.57 - Wed Nov 11, 2009 8:36 PM EST
              Reply
              vol fan in chatt, tn

              We already know why he did it, when he said "ali crowbar"! What else would you possibly need to know?

              • 5 votes
              Reply#16 - Mon Nov 9, 2009 12:07 AM EST
              cain398

              | You guys are unreal. I wish you were residents of another country or planet.

              That's probably what radical Muslims used to say before they started blowing people up.


              • 4 votes
              Reply#17 - Mon Nov 9, 2009 12:12 AM EST
              vladimer kerchenko

              lieberman is a lunatic. he and cheney drink the blood of third world children and think they are doing them a favor.

              • 1 vote
              Reply#18 - Mon Nov 9, 2009 1:04 AM EST
              swcityDeleted
              vladimer kerchenko

              keep looking for your ghostly terrorists you sheep. i am as waspy as you are.

              • 2 votes
              #18.2 - Mon Nov 9, 2009 2:42 AM EST
              Reply
              vladimer kerchenko

              strip lieberman of his chairmanship, now !

              • 1 vote
              Reply#19 - Mon Nov 9, 2009 1:10 AM EST
              DeWente69

              Lieberman is on the right track, But he's not going as far as I would. I've already written an answer to any question you might have for me in response to this. Check out my post.

              • 2 votes
              #19.1 - Mon Nov 9, 2009 6:13 PM EST
              Reply
              rgdyk2

              Sen. Joe Lieberman's call for the investigation came as word surfaced that Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan apparently attended the same Virginia mosque as two Sept. 11 hijackers in 2001

              Way to go Joe! Perhaps upon the conclusion of this investigation, Nidal Malik Hasan can be finally classified as the true TERRORIST that he is. It's mind-boggling how many of the posters on Newsvine I've seen will flat out refuse to call this TERRORIST what he truly is, and the lengths they'll go to try to discredit anyone who does. Proof? How much more proof does anyone need?

              • 3 votes
              Reply#20 - Mon Nov 9, 2009 1:12 AM EST
              cain398

              The problem is that some Americans think terrorist = Middle Easterner. Whenever a murderer or rapist is on the loose, isn't the community terrorized? All this "I told you so" is an attempt to justify racism.

                #20.1 - Mon Nov 9, 2009 1:41 AM EST
                vladimer kerchenko

                how convenient...... now we have an excuse to expand these fake wars.

                • 1 vote
                #20.2 - Mon Nov 9, 2009 2:45 AM EST
                HeelsnHairMetal

                No, I just see fit to let the FBI and other law enforcement agencies do their job and wait for their investigation to reveal the motives. I dont have enough evidence to rule out terrorism, just as I dont have enough evidence to determine that it was, and really, neither do you. You ask how much proof someone needs to claim he is a terrorist? What PROOF do you have either way? That he said the takbir? One of the most COMMON phrases out there, especially during times of stress or trial. Is it the fact that he held his mother's funeral at a gigantic mosque that also served THOUSANDS of other people, 2 of which turned out to be terrorists, and have not yet said whether or not he was a regular attendee or ever spoke to those 2 men or the imam they were associated with?

                We ALL have to wait until the evidence is sorted out by the authorities and an official conclusion is reached. I am not ready to pick one side or the other, and really, thats not my job. My job is to side with and accept the truth, whatever that may be. Right now we dont know, so we will have to wait...

                  #20.3 - Mon Nov 9, 2009 10:04 AM EST
                  HereIAm-1409238

                  What if someone killed your brother, and you saw him do it. The killer was a Muslim and yelled "Allah akbar", and all the evidence had pointed to him being his own little jihadist, fighting with his colleagues saying Islam is the only religion and advocated suicide bombing. Would you give him the benefit of the doubt and perhaps say "My brother deserved it?"

                  • 2 votes
                  #20.4 - Mon Nov 9, 2009 5:17 PM EST
                  Dennis P. McCannDeleted
                  HereIAm-1409238

                  Are you following the seed or have have you morphed into a new one?

                  • 2 votes
                  #20.6 - Mon Nov 9, 2009 7:40 PM EST
                  Reply
                  cain398

                  Here is a story I saw on CNN Sunday:

                  http://us.cnn.com/video/?/video/us/2009/11/08/griffin.ny.mosque.radicals.cnn

                  I thought it was interesting that the radical Muslims outside the mosque were all converts.

                  • 1 vote
                  Reply#21 - Mon Nov 9, 2009 1:29 AM EST
                  RoboticParadox

                  Sen. Joe Lieberman's call for the investigation

                  That's all I needed to see. Of course the Zionist is going to head this up.

                  • 1 vote
                  Reply#22 - Mon Nov 9, 2009 1:53 AM EST
                  Rick-282834

                  When The U.S. was at war with Japan they rounded up all American Japanese and sent them to camps.

                  How is it that we are at war with Muslim factions and we don't do the same now?

                  No our government wire taps them and so called watches them. Makes them Majors and send them through doctor school.

                  If you don't think we are at war with these types of Muslims your big time mistaken. These types of Young Muslim men want to kill you.

                  I am sure not all Muslims are bad. But I have yet to meet just one who was a decent person and not totally screwed up in the head. Not one.

                  And I have met a lot in this country. And yes they were all men.

                  One I met in college thought it was a right of passage to have sex with young boys. He said it was done to him and his father and his fathers father and so on in his country. And it is not considered gay or pedophile. It was a right of passage to him.

                  He was also a liar and was always plotting. Was a shifty sneeky caracter. To tell the truth I hated the guy. If he took a liking to a girl who was seeing another guy he would make up stories about the guy to try and break them up. I seen him do this three times. And he would beat any women he was with. He got his ars kicked a few times at college and wouldn't come out of his dorm room until his bruises went away because he didn't want people to see him beat up. He was always berating America.

                  he was a terrible person.

                  And that was not the first time I crossed paths with a man like that who was Muslim.

                  Now we are suppose to be understanding of others beliefs and differences.

                  I don't see how that is possible with people like this man.

                  This country needs to wake up and realize who the enemy is and take action.

                  And no I am not a racist. Just a realist.

                  • 2 votes
                  Reply#23 - Mon Nov 9, 2009 2:12 AM EST
                  cain398

                  When I was growing up it was the evil Communists that wanted to destroy us. Islam is just a new face for the same perceived evil. All the Muslims I've ever met are decent people.

                  • 1 vote
                  #23.1 - Mon Nov 9, 2009 2:31 AM EST
                  alfie-omega

                  Rick,

                  Then I guess we had better kick out all the Muslim servicemen and women currently serving in the US Armed Forces? Is that what you are advocating? Are you ready to step up and fill their place? Multiple deployments, long periods of time away from loved ones (before and after the deployments), doing jobs that most Americans aren't willing to do... I don't know much about your experiences with Muslim men or women, but my 20 years in the military put me in contact with quite a few from all different walks of life, different countries, etc...They were all decent human beings and true Americans.

                  But then again, if you want to lump every single Muslim under the same blanket and cast doubt on all those who have stepped forward and have served the US faithfully then go ahead.

                  • 2 votes
                  #23.2 - Mon Nov 9, 2009 3:24 AM EST
                  Dennis P. McCannDeleted
                  Reply
                  Rick-282834

                  When The U.S. was at war with Japan they rounded up all American Japanese and sent them to camps.

                  How is it that we are at war with Muslim factions and we don't do the same now?

                  No our government wire taps them and so called watches them. Makes them Majors and send them through doctor school.

                  If you don't think we are at war with these types of Muslims your big time mistaken. These types of Young Muslim men want to kill you.

                  I am sure not all Muslims are bad. But I have yet to meet just one who was a decent person and not totally screwed up in the head. Not one.

                  And I have met a lot in this country. And yes they were all men.

                  One I met in college thought it was a right of passage to have sex with young boys. He said it was done to him and his father and his fathers father and so on in his country. And it is not considered gay or pedophile. It was a right of passage to him.

                  He was also a liar and was always plotting. Was a shifty sneeky caracter. To tell the truth I hated the guy. If he took a liking to a girl who was seeing another guy he would make up stories about the guy to try and break them up. I seen him do this three times. And he would beat any women he was with. He got his ars kicked a few times at college and wouldn't come out of his dorm room until his bruises went away because he didn't want people to see him beat up. He was always berating America.

                  he was a terrible person.

                  And that was not the first time I crossed paths with a man like that who was Muslim.

                  Now we are suppose to be understanding of others beliefs and differences.

                  I don't see how that is possible with people like this man.

                  This country needs to wake up and realize who the enemy is and take action.

                  And no I am not a racist. Just a realist.

                  • 2 votes
                  Reply#24 - Mon Nov 9, 2009 2:16 AM EST
                  Gwenny

                  When The U.S. was at war with Japan they rounded up all American Japanese and sent them to camps.

                  How is it that we are at war with Muslim factions and we don't do the same now?

                  Because it was wrong to do that? Because we are at war with countries and not a religion? Because we can't afford the reparations.

                  • 1 vote
                  #24.1 - Mon Nov 9, 2009 9:24 AM EST
                  HeelsnHairMetal

                  Ummmm.... because we dont round up citizens or legal residents who have not committed any crimes and hold them against their will for no reason? Because that was an ass-backwards thing to do then, and even more so now? Because it seems kind of Nazi-esque to me (finding a perceived enemy in one relgiion, ethnicity, etc. and locking them away to work or be killed)?

                  The fact that anyone could possibly suggest something this evil makes me fear for innocent Muslims all over this country, including those who are my friends. People like you need to get a grip...

                  • 2 votes
                  #24.2 - Mon Nov 9, 2009 10:09 AM EST
                  DeWente69

                  No, Gwenny. We are at war with a religion, not foreign governments. The president of Afghanistan wants us there, the muslim people that are against America do not. It was not wrong to do what we did to Japanese Americans in WW2. Thats war, you have to do some less than friendly things. Don't over romanticize. Start hanging real tough with muslims and see how long you feel safe. America is to buddy buddy for me right now. We need to bring some of that old tough love back!

                  • 3 votes
                  #24.3 - Mon Nov 9, 2009 1:28 PM EST
                  Dennis P. McCannDeleted
                  alfie-omega

                  No, Gwenny. We are at war with a religion, not foreign governments.

                  We are at war with an ideology born from a religion. There are approximately 1.2 billion Muslims in the world. The majority of them don't believe in suicide bombs or killing their fellow human beings. If the majority of Muslims in this world thought otherwise, the world would be a much different place.

                  The president of Afghanistan wants us there, the muslim people that are against America do not.

                  And the Muslim people who do not want us there are a fraction of the total and are not all fanatics willing to kill. Just like we have people here in the states who don't want illegal immigrants, or Muslims, gays, etc... here in the States. Some probably wouldn't mind killing those they don't like but the majority of Americans who feel this way, just want them gone, not dead.

                  It was not wrong to do what we did to Japanese Americans in WW2. Thats war, you have to do some less than friendly things. Don't over romanticize.

                  Yes it was wrong to take a group of US citizens and tell them that the US Constitution no longer pertains to them. If you feel that the Constitution and the other laws of this land should be easily suspended whenever someone wants to then you don't deserve to be protected under them. Unfortunately, those same laws that you think should be easily overwritten or suspended give you the right to say, feel, and do pretty much anything you want, within the confines of those laws.

                  Have you ever been in the military? If you have been then you must have forgotten that even in war there are rules. There are combatants and non-combatants. You don't go around treating the non-combatants like combatants. To win the hearts and minds of a group of people who you want on your side, you do not throw them in prison or in a detention camp just because they use a different bible than you do.

                  Start hanging real tough with muslims and see how long you feel safe. America is to buddy buddy for me right now. We need to bring some of that old tough love back!

                  As I've asked others of your like minded type, are you willing to step forward and join the US Military to take the place of those you are so willing to put behind bars just because of their religion? Or as long as they fight and die for you is it ok if they stay out of the detention camps?

                  • 1 vote
                  #24.5 - Mon Nov 9, 2009 4:17 PM EST
                  DeWente69

                  Yes, I was in the military. Good thing I wasn't a soldier at fort hood last week. I don't want to win their hearts and minds. I want to fight and demoralize them to the point where they are no longer able to say "Americans are different, and I don't like them so I want to kill them." I don't want them to even have the ability to try to fight us. Research what we did to Japan after WW2. If I'm not mistaken we only allow them to spend so much money on their military. You don't get to do what you want if we're at war with you or if we've beaten you in a war. Think of the conversation between a peaceful muslim man, and his son that wants to be a radical islam extremist. Is he begging his son not to? Is he threatening to kill him if he tries to become a radical? He can try to talk him out of it, but if that sons mind is made up, he's gonna say allah be with you. And I hope you kill as many non muslims as you can and spread the message of islam at any cost. The detention camp thing is farther than I would take it. But if that happened I wouldn't mind. I don't wanna kill anybody, but If they decided to lock up muslims in America until the war was over, so be it. The muslim extremist would then have a choice to make. Keep fighting America while knowing our people are being locked up because of our actions, Or stop fighting America. You're only a non-combatant until the moment you decide to pick up 2 handguns and shoot a bunch of americans. Forgot that give everybody a chance and equal opportunity crap. Bad things happen because we allow them to happen. I'm pretty good at coming up with ways not to allow bad things to happen.

                  • 1 vote
                  #24.6 - Mon Nov 9, 2009 5:13 PM EST
                  cain398

                  DeWente,

                  Are you Muslim? How do you know what kind of conversations they have?

                  And if we just started locking up all Muslims, wouldn't that make them want to fight us even more?

                    #24.7 - Tue Nov 10, 2009 1:25 AM EST
                    Reply
                    DeWente69

                    Get these muslims out of our military. We'll never know whats on their minds. We'll never know whose really extreme. We'll never know alot of things about them...until its too late! Do we have to implant people to watch and hear the activities that take place in Mosques. Do we have to go search for secret rooms with people, information, or weapons hidden within them? The stigma is alive and well. I don't mind being called prejudice or discriminative. Most people in America don't trust muslims. In this instance I'm with most people. I'm realistic. I believe that muslims in America have a "Fake it til they make it" approach towards America. With the "Make it" part being either until you have to attack Americans or until the war against America is won. Why are we taking all these chances in the name of freedom and democracy. As far as I'm concerned, I'm at war with your people...you have no rights.

                    • 2 votes
                    #25 - Mon Nov 9, 2009 12:35 PM EST
                    HeelsnHairMetal

                    people like you scare me

                    • 1 vote
                    #25.1 - Mon Nov 9, 2009 12:56 PM EST
                    DeWente69

                    I shouldn't scare you. I don't have a kill or be killed attitude. I am realistic however and am very suspicious of muslims. We're at war. I don't care if I make a muslim feel so uncomfortable that they don't feel welcomed here...cuz they're not. Atleast while the war on terrorism is ongoing. When we win and all the terrorist are dead or in prison and I'm no longer fighting your people, I wouldn't mind befriending a muslim. But right now the conflict of interest is a matter of life and death, and I'm not taking any chances! The only way to prevent attacks from muslims is to totally put them under the microscope. You don't get the same freedoms that a person that is loyal to America gets. Muslim first , American second huh? OK, lets treat em like 2nd rate citizens since they put America 2nd. I'm honest. A muslim knows I don't like em. I don't wanna kill them but I will do any and everything to prevent them from hurting me and my people. Honesty, its more than I can say for them. Deceive your enemy to beat your enemy. You should watch "Traitor"!

                    • 4 votes
                    #25.2 - Mon Nov 9, 2009 1:21 PM EST
                    redphish

                    @ HeelsnHairMetal

                    He also conveniently forgets the thousands of past and present Muslim soldiers that have fought and sometimes died with honor and the Afghan and Iraqi civilians who died, assisting our troops as interpreters and guides.

                    • 1 vote
                    #25.3 - Mon Nov 9, 2009 1:27 PM EST
                    DeWente69

                    No, I'm not forgetting anything. You can't prove to me that those people were devout muslims. I'm not saying discriminate against people that are helping us that just happen to be from that area of the world. But if you are a muslim, you are under my most extreme suspicion! A muslim is not going to kill another muslim unless that muslim is not muslim enough. The more muslim you are, the better. Muslim extremist are praised, and if you go against them you are not a true muslim. So what do we do about that? Past muslims were not a problem in previous wars. There was no conflict of interest. But now we are at war with radical islam...a life or death conflict of interest for muslims. Its easy to help me win a battle if you only stand to gain from it. But when you stand to gain on one side and lose on your religious side...you're not going to stand with me.

                    • 3 votes
                    #25.4 - Mon Nov 9, 2009 1:33 PM EST
                    HeelsnHairMetal

                    Ahh, bigotry and ignorance at its finest. DeWente, you make it seem as if the only TRUE Muslims are the extreists, when we all know that it is the EXACT OPPOSITE that is true. These extremists have hijacked the religion for their own evil ends, and are terrorizing not only us but their fellow Muslims as well. You do understand that the people who have been killed most by etremist bombings and such have been other Muslim civilians right? Dont we hear just about everyday of some bomb going off in a cafe or on a street corner in the Middle East. Who do you think make up most of the casulties?

                    So you are saying we should turn our back on the many Muslims who have fought in our wars, including the 2 we are in right now, and who have died to protect us? How about the many US Muslims who died in the 9/11 attacks? Im sure we should round up their families as well, being that because they are Muslim they OBVIOUSLY agree with having their sons and daughters killed, right? Do I understand you correctly?

                    Its funny, because I never heard any mention of banning Christians from the military when we were fighting other Christian nations. That would be a conflict of interest as well, right? I mean, many Christians declare themselves loyal to God first and country second, correct? Your ignorance of people, Islam, and life in general ASTOUNDS me, and unfortunately, people like you are becoming more and more commonplace in our country.

                    • 1 vote
                    #25.5 - Mon Nov 9, 2009 1:48 PM EST
                    alfie-omega

                    DeWente cracks me up. People like him/her are a throw back to the heady days of McCarthyism and even further back when people distrusted anyone who didn't look like them, speak like them, or even prayed like them.

                    Its very sad to see that intolerance, bigotry, and just plain hate for no other reason than the sake of hating is so alive and well. Kinda puts DeWente in the the same category of the Islamic radicals whom we are fighting against. You know, the ones who believe that you need to believe the way they do or else.

                      #25.6 - Mon Nov 9, 2009 4:49 PM EST
                      DeWente69

                      "You do understand that the people who have been killed most by etremist bombings and such have been other Muslim civilians right? Dont we hear just about everyday of some bomb going off in a cafe or on a street corner in the Middle East. Who do you think make up most of the casulties?"

                      Yes I do. But again...they fall into that not muslim enough category. Are muslim extremist making up a good portion of casualties from violent muslim attacks. No. Extreme muslims are hailed as heroes. And the muslims that may not agree with them do not speak out against them. The rule, "If you don't condemn it, you silently condone it" applies here. I'm not ignorant or a biggot. I'm realistic. The muslims that were killed in 9/11 they were just an unfortunate consequence as far as muslim extremist are concerned. Bottom line is We're at war with islam, because islam for the most part is anti american. Therefore if you are islamic, you are guilty until proven innocent. If you don't like proving you're innocence everyday, there is a solution. You're statement about Christians is irrelevant because a house can't be divided amongst itself. America is never going to condemn Christians that for the most part made America what it is today. Fighting another Christian nation is not a battle of religion, its a battle for another reason. Fighting muslim nations is a battle of religion along with other reasons. Since you say I'm an ignorant biggot, tell me how we could prevent a muslim attack against americans? Don't ask me how we can prevent (fill in the blank) or any other kinds of attacks, that would be going around my question. I'm pretty sure unless you just have some incredible answer that I haven't heard or seen before, I'm going to shoot your suggestion down.

                      • 2 votes
                      #25.7 - Mon Nov 9, 2009 4:51 PM EST
                      HereIAm-1409238

                      How about the many US Muslims who died in the 9/11

                      Find a list and give us those names, please.

                      • 1 vote
                      #25.8 - Mon Nov 9, 2009 5:25 PM EST
                      DeWente69

                      DeWente cracks me up. People like him/her are a throw back to the heady days of McCarthyism and even further back when people distrusted anyone who didn't look like them, speak like them, or even prayed like them.

                      Its very sad to see that intolerance, bigotry, and just plain hate for no other reason than the sake of hating is so alive and well. Kinda puts DeWente in the the same category of the Islamic radicals whom we are fighting against. You know, the ones who believe that you need to believe the way they do or else.

                      No alfie, You don't have to agree with me or else. But when the chance is high that you're mentality might be I have to agree with you or you're gonna kill me, I have a problem with that. I don't hate anybody. I'm not naive and I'm not trusting of people that probably want to harm me. If you have a muslim household with 8 people living their, all it takes is for one of them to have anti american radical islam views for me to no trust all 8 of em. Can't give the benefit of the doubt because as far as I'm concerened all 8 of em feel the same, but only one actually let it be known. Rotten apples spoil the bunch. I'm pretty sure there is at least one rotten apple in every muslim bunch.

                      • 3 votes
                      #25.9 - Mon Nov 9, 2009 5:29 PM EST
                      alfie-omega

                      If you have a muslim household with 8 people living their, all it takes is for one of them to have anti american radical islam views for me to no trust all 8 of em. Can't give the benefit of the doubt because as far as I'm concerened all 8 of em feel the same, but only one actually let it be known. Rotten apples spoil the bunch. I'm pretty sure there is at least one rotten apple in every muslim bunch.

                      You evidently think very low of the military then as well since there have been and probably still are gang bangers and white power types in the ranks. Rotten apples come in all shapes and sizes. If you use that analogy then you have to put other groups through the same filter. If the military has gang bangers and KKK sympathizers in the ranks then the whole military must be rotten because of the few who have their own agenda. Or does the rotten apple thing only apply to groups you don't like?

                      • 1 vote
                      #25.10 - Mon Nov 9, 2009 9:28 PM EST
                      swcityDeleted
                      HeelsnHairMetal

                      Here is a CNN story about a 69 year old Muslim woman who died on flight 175.

                      http://archives.cnn.com/2001/US/09/18/vic.muslims.victims/index.html

                      Here is a partial list of Muslim victims of 9/11, most of who can be cross-checked with the CNN directory of victims and confirmed. They died right alongside our other citizens that day. To deny that is to spit in the face of all of the victims...

                      http://islam.about.com/blvictims.htm

                      • 1 vote
                      #25.12 - Tue Nov 10, 2009 2:07 AM EST
                      HereIAm-1409238

                      That list is a little extreme and some names are only names. When 9/11 happened, and I read the injured or killed list, I don't remember reading about a significant amount of Muslims being killed. We already know that Muslims kill other Muslims. Maybe those were expendable? And only one major news station, CNN talking about the one lady on Flight 175? Wonder where the rest of the news stations were. This would've made a significant story. Wonder why it wasn't mentioned in detail in the days following.

                      • 1 vote
                      #25.13 - Tue Nov 10, 2009 6:48 PM EST
                      HereIAm-1409238

                      That list is a little extreme and some names are only names. When 9/11 happened, and I read the injured or killed list, I don't remember reading about a significant amount of Muslims being killed. We already know that Muslims kill other Muslims. Maybe those were expendable? And only one major news station, CNN talking about the one lady on Flight 175? Wonder where the rest of the news stations were. This would've made a significant story. Wonder why it wasn't mentioned in detail in the days following.

                        #25.14 - Tue Nov 10, 2009 6:49 PM EST
                        HereIAm-1409238

                        Sorry, double post. However, I did want to mention that after 9-11, the Muslim community accused the Jewish of perpetrating the attack. They said the Jews had all been told to not show up for work on 9-11. A little crazy when you remember what religion the hijackers belonged too. That was reported quite a bit.

                        Also, didn't someone post how did we know he was Muslim simply by the name? How do we know those on the lists were Muslims going along with that line of reasoning?

                        • 2 votes
                        #25.15 - Tue Nov 10, 2009 7:02 PM EST
                        HereIAm-1409238

                        Sorry, double post. However, I did want to mention that after 9-11, the Muslim community accused the Jewish of perpetrating the attack. They said the Jews had all been told to not show up for work on 9-11. A little crazy when you remember what religion the hijackers belonged too. That was reported quite a bit.

                        Also, didn't someone post how did we know he was Muslim simply by the name? How do we know those on the lists were Muslims going along with that line of reasoning?

                          #25.16 - Tue Nov 10, 2009 7:04 PM EST
                          worldknightboy

                          I remember seeing and hearing muslims around the world celebrating the 9/11 attacks, eating cake and cheering! I also remember Giuliana telling that saudi money bag holder to keep his money, after the saudi anti-semite said Israeli policy was to blame for the attack.

                          • 4 votes
                          #25.17 - Wed Nov 11, 2009 12:02 PM EST
                          Reply
                          redphish

                          A muslim is not going to kill another muslim unless that muslim is not muslim enough.

                          What about the Pakistani army's ongoing operations against the Taliban or the Saudi operation that just wrapped up against Yemeni militants. Many Muslims don't follow such a strict adherence to the letter of the Koran.

                            Reply#26 - Mon Nov 9, 2009 1:54 PM EST
                            DeWente69

                            I know...and the ones that do follow it so strictly don't mind hurting the ones that don't. Thats an in house battle. Desert politics against desert religion. They don't have that problem in Iran where the religious leaders are the backbone of their politics. See the difference?

                            • 1 vote
                            #26.1 - Mon Nov 9, 2009 4:55 PM EST
                            alfie-omega

                            Many Muslims don't follow such a strict adherence to the letter of the Koran.

                            redphish, very true.

                            This is just like the many Christians who don't follow every commandment, law, or teaching handed down through the bible. Kind of funny how that happens. You're not a true Muslim unless you follow every single teaching in the Koran but all you have to do to be a good Christian is to go to church every once in awhile and say that you are Christian.

                              #26.2 - Mon Nov 9, 2009 4:57 PM EST
                              DeWente69

                              Its Not up to me to determine who's a good christian and who's not. Not even myself. But I'm not gonna blow up or shoot a bunch a people for not being christian enough. Muslims pass judgment on other muslims everyday and the results are deadly. I don't see news stories at the same frequency of Christians killing Christians.

                              • 3 votes
                              #26.3 - Mon Nov 9, 2009 5:20 PM EST
                              alfie-omega

                              Its Not up to me to determine who's a good christian and who's not. Not even myself. But I'm not gonna blow up or shoot a bunch a people for not being christian enough. Muslims pass judgment on other muslims everyday and the results are deadly.

                              Its not up to you to determine good Christian from bad but you will decide who is a good Muslim and who isn't (and by your definition, a bad Muslim is the one who got killed by the suicide bomber because he wasn't Muslim enough)? Radical Muslims don't kill other Muslims because they aren't Muslim enough. They do it to cause terror (hence the word terrorist). They don't care how devout or non-devout you are. All they care about is the body count and what can they get for it. They believe that if a devout Muslim gets caught in one of their blast its ok because they will go to heaven.

                              Yes, some want a global caliphate and Sharia law to reign supreme others just want their repressive and backward take on Islam to be the rule of the land, but under it all, they just want power. They are no better than a petty dictator who abuses his people because he can or terrorizes smaller countries near his. They just don't have a regular army or live within the confines of borders.

                              I don't see news stories at the same frequency of Christians killing Christians.

                              That's because the Christian religion and most of its followers have moved forward and shed its backward beliefs on what is considered justice and how to get it and how to advance their cause. Now, what they haven't been able to do is shed itself of those members within its ranks who keep getting caught with their pants down (literally and figuratively). The ones who will try to tell you how to live your life while they are getting it on with their mistresses or a local prostitute or even a choir boy. The occasional murder and mayhem mixed with a lot of slap and tickle has replaced the Christian need to spread Christianity at the end of a sword or by the barbecuing of a few zealots and heretics.

                              No religion is perfect; however, they all have their "bad apples" hiding within the ranks. Does this make all followers bad? No. Do we persecute the entire religion? No. Just those who can't live peacefully alongside those who can.

                                #26.4 - Mon Nov 9, 2009 10:20 PM EST
                                Reply
                                swcityDeleted
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