Of bats and billions: Following stimulus funds

Does A.C.O.R.N. count as a small business? I think like $80 million has been given to then so far that we know about anyways.......

How come you can't use the software to track the money into jobs actually created?

Because "Funds for Friends" is a Pelosi/ Obama hand out never really intended to create jobs.

"Stimulus" sounds better to the MSM though.

They are giving it to small local businesses. In the area I'm working in they are repaving and rebuilding very dilapidated roads using local contractors (several) which will improve traffic flow and help the local businesses on these roads. It appears to be doing what it's supposed to be doing.

Gold new record $1115 per Ounce, This is bad our dollar is sinking, no Jobs!, And Cap&Tax and this I.R.S health-care Bill will destroy the middle class ,All we will have left is the Rich politician

If the government is going to borrow money to spend it, where are the new nuclear power facilities, the new oil platforms and wells, the new "Hoover dams", the new resources for small businesses to upgrade and solidify their infrastructrures? I don't mind so much adequately funding the National park system, but most of all the other stuff smells like "pork". I thought there were going to be an overwhelming number of "green" jobs that can't be exported--not just a bunch of borrowed cash handed to local government entities.

Government funding government is not a solution to building an economic base. I know the arguments that government is a big customer of the private sector, but in my opinion it is the private sector that needs help--not bloated and inefficient government agencies.

I agree all the way. This was all about pork and wasteful government spending. See, thats what happens when you fall for a bunch of bureaucratic politicians. Now this country is more deeper in debt and sinking fast. The health care bill will add more to our deficit which the tax payers are going to pay dearly for these idiots in Washington mistakes. RUSH, RUSH and look were it got us? Still no jobs, higher unemployment, higher deficit, corruption. BOY! this country is on a roll!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The map showing where the $timulus money is being spent looks like a democratic election strategy map, big winners, California, New York, Texas, Florida, states critical to winning national elections. Could they be any more obveous about who will benifit from the $timulus plan.

Amazing how they will spend money to build gates to keep bats in, but no gate or fence to keep illegals out! Something is wrong with this picture.

Road projects do not help the small busniness man, Buildings do. Road projects do not encompass a mason, drywaller, roofer, HVAC, Elctrician, plumber and more like buildings do. Plus the rate they are releasing these projects Contractors are bidding against every contractor in a 5 state radius. So in order to get the job they have to bid at cost or next to no cost or even under cost to get the job. This will KILL the small business man because the only companies who can survive on that small a profit margin and still pay their overhead are your large MultiBillion dollar companies. You know the ones that everybody hates, because profits are evil, right? This stimulus money in my area is not helping small businesses at all, the market in this area is suffering, because of the slow rate at which these jobs are being released.

i've been looking at some of these projects for my state, in particular, my county. one of the road projects they claim is employing 71 people has like 20 people actually working on it.

Did you think that the stimulus was there to build you a building so you wouldn't have too? Now you are mad that they build roads and bridges instead. Oh the gate is to let the bats out and keep the people out of the mine. I wish we could keep all the illegals out so easily.

ronpal

the rest are in the office drinking coffee

No, I am a supplier for commercial buildings to General Contractors. I was hoping for school expansion, Fire Stations, Libraries, and Government Office Buildings. I am not upset about building/improving roads, God knows we need it. I am just saying Buildings create or save more jobs than roads.

The biggest problem I have for roads is the fact that every time I drive by road construction there are 20 people there and only 2 or 3 working. Which means we will be paying alot of people to stand around!

Ymerej

The biggest problem I have for roads is the fact that every time I drive by road construction there are 20 people there and only 2 or 3 working. Which means we will be paying alot of people to stand around!

****************************************************************

People like to blame the federal government for things like that. The truth a lot of the mismanagement that goes on in this country are on the local level. Once stimulus money is received by the state or city, it's on the local officials to manage it right.

The thing is, citizens do not hold local officials accountable. They come on message boards to b*tch, thinking they are actually making a difference.

I asked for enough funds from stimulis to get a trucking company going that would put men and women to work ( long time employment ) and have benifits and to provide a healthy enviroment to all Familys that work with my company, but I aint herd a word yet ,so I believe its nothing but BULLSH#@IT. just making the wealthy wealthier

Dead on JpJhonson.

One of the key things I notice, is that if something goes wrong in a state, it's The HoR's fault, If something goes wrong in Anytown U.S.A. it's the presidents fault. If something goes wrong with that lamppost at the corner of your street; truly the Senate is to blame.

We have several roads under construction here and although it is a pain to get around at times it's good that people are working. Then again when I go through these sites, I rarely see people working and those Recovery/Reinvestment signs were a bit of a waste of money in my opinion.

One of the problems I see--what is considered a job? Our governor in Oregon proclaimed that the state government had created x number of jobs (don't remember the total). On closer investigation, the average length of the job was 8 hours. Is that the kind of job that is being spun as being created or "saved"? I really think the American public is more directed toward preserving and creating what would be call a productive career.

I have not problem with roads and bridges, National Parks, education, etc. (these are legitimate functions of government both national and local) if the money is spent wisely and those who are spending the money are held to strict accountable standards. Sadly many government agencies and officials don't have any problem spending money, but they have a serious problem with spending it judiciously (Dem or Repub--doesn't seem to matter much).

If government is going to get into the business of economy stimulation, they need to focus on what actually creates career type employment for extended periods of time. They need to think out of the box beyond make work projects and encourage the rebuilding of the manufacturing base through large and small business. If businesses on all levels are handicapped with excessive taxes and unneccesarily complicated regulatory processes, we will never in our life times see a return of a good economy to our great country. It will all come from overseas and we will simply become a service society dependant on other countries for hard goods.

Just my opinion.

I am not blaming anybody, I am just stating a fact, I have written my local government all the way to the state government officials expressing my belief on the use of stimulus funds.

I was just commenting on Ferrosynthesis comment about how the road projects are creating jobs. I cannot help but to think that Andy and JpJohnson are trying to villify me for stating a problem with the stimulis. However if you go to the stimulis tracking webpage, every state and every county (that I went to and actually saw) was the same way. Road Construction is the largest benefactor of the stimulis. However, like I said above, Road construction is needed, but not at the expense of other projects that could really save or create jobs.

I just looked at the stimulus tracker map. One item stood out like a sore thumb. It looked like the biggest recipient States all voted for Obama. I decided to Google the 2008 presidential results map and only one of the 6 largest recipient states went red. This was Texas. Of the total 61.6 billion allocated, $34.8 Billion went to those 5 states. They are California, District of Colombia, Florida, Washington, and New York! Over half of the allocated funds go to these states. This is more than all the states that Voted for bush combined. Coincidence? I would bet not! Seems the current administration is paying back big Democrat strong holds well!

I'll install a "bat door" for 25k a pop. I'm laid off. lol.

For the conservatives, you have that trickle down golden shower from the GOP. Just stay out of the way this time. You have a lot of nerve belly aching.  You lost. Deal with it. Get over it.

Okay... some Stimulus money has made it's way somewhere. There is still much more to go out. I thought this was for shovel ready jobs? (Mr President said so)

Any stimulus bailout that does not include small business is a fraud. The backbone of the country is being treated like the spleen. And the administration is still not talking everyday common American entrepreneur language. Small business is being all but ignored.

If the experts cannot track what is really happening with the money... how can we? And since the emergency is now... how come the hold-up of the distribution?

GE has wind projects that they are supposedly working on. But a driver for them came into my store and told me that they were going to be put on 1-1/2 months leave for the end of this year. Why? Isn't "Green" even good enough to keep going? Besides... the only parts that are made for these giant wind generators here in the United States are the outside plastic. Everything else is made in China and Korea and then shipped into the States by GE.

So much for looking out for American Jobs. Did GE get Stimulus money?

I was just commenting on Ferrosynthesis comment about how the road projects are creating jobs. I cannot help but to think that Andy and JpJohnson are trying to villify me for stating a problem with the stimulis. However if you go to the stimulis tracking webpage, every state and every county (that I went to and actually saw) was the same way. Road Construction is the largest benefactor of the stimulis. However, like I said above, Road construction is needed, but not at the expense of other projects that could really save or create jobs.

No, I'm not villifying you; I actually didn't read your initial comment, heh.

But roads are the lifeblood for business. And America's road infrustructure is in desperate repair. We've had road failures, bridge collapses, damns/levee's give way... Are there better ways of dolling out the stimulus? Of course! But I do think the government is doing an OK job thus far.

It's not like Obama is building is own personal Taj Mahal with the money.

DB, Wyoming just put out an article in the paper stating the problems of counting jobs created with stimulus money. The problem was having to report a job created but it was only a one day job. Looks great for the federal report but is actually misrepresented as they didn't list the same job as a loss the next day. Not an accurate report at all. More spin.

While I will agree that I am not an Obama supporter in any way, This has nothing to do with him (Unless of course there is more than coincedense that Blue states have received far more money than Red States, but that has a lot to do with population and dire needs at the moment.) But I thought the stimulis money was supposed to save or create jobs. That is the only problem I have with this. Our local and state governments are not doing that best way possible in my opinion. I do not think we should avoid or totally forget about the infastructure you mentioned, but there has to be a better balance.

It's not like Obama is building his own Taj Mahal with the money

No, but he's building a government Taj Mahal... and more and more of our money will be going into it if he and his cronies are not stopped! It's a bottomless pit that is never satisfied.

I would liken it to the "Winchester Mystery House". Stairways and doors that lead to nowhere. But it certainly is impressive!

Be 1.28,

That is the problem. The stimulus money is not being used to build more permanent solutions. And then it is being spun like it is. In our state the lottery was suppose to solve education, the gas taxes were suppose to solve road building and repair. On a nation level Social Security was suppose to be collected to pay for Social Security--medicare for medicare, etc. BUT most of these specially collected funds go into the general fund and get spent on whoever's "pork"--not the projects for which they were intended. The accountability practices of government on all levels is a travesty. Public officials have the absolute obligation to spend public funds wisely. And we, the people, need to hold them accountable. But we aren't. It depresses me, because I think most people just want to call others names who disagree with them and think they have done their civic duty. Roll up your sleeves, hold officials accountable, or we loose it.

Sorry--that should be Be on 1.26 post.

My company applied for Stimulus money in the 7 states where we have plants. We had infrastructure improvements we needed that included upgraded power, flood and rainwater control, paving, improved traffic flow around our congested plants, etc.... All these things are off our property on public lands, beyond our responsibility. We have not received one thin dime or so much as a reach around from this porking plan. But Mexico and China will bend over backwards to build whatever we need to relocate there.

Stimulus creating jobs...yeah, right!

7 states !!!

What about the companies in just one or two cities - that is a small business to me. In any case - would you use the money to hire people or just make it apart of your working capital that you might use to get out of a bad deal.

Paying off debt with stimulus money will not have any affect.

Ferro,

It is great that your area is getting a small sprinkling of the stimulus. Unfortunately, much of the stimulus is going to entitlement programs - which is ABSOLUTELY NOT what the stimulus is supposed to do. If you do not believe me read this:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33498869#/all/all/us/all/

"Large parts of the $787 billion federal stimulus package to help the U.S. economy are being spent on entitlement programs such as unemployment benefits and Medicaid"

This will not help the unemployment situation. Sorry.

BBYANKO #1.6,

Mistakes? Are you sure that it's not planned?

DavidP4660 #1.8,

If it is part of the solution to prevent whatever is killing off large numbers of the bat population, I'm all for this, and everyone else should be too. For all you city folks, bats eat the insects the pester you when your outside, and more importantly, they eat the insects that like to eat our food crops.

Blue Collar 1.32

What about the companies in just one or two cities - that is a small business to me. In any case - would you use the money to hire people or just make it apart of your working capital that you might use to get out of a bad deal.

Small company here, covering 3 major cities out of one warehouse. We're not in any bad deals, but we would love to upgrade machinery in our warehouse, and buy new trucks and trailers as well a fork lifts and pallet jacks. Because of the nature of our business, jobs will not increase here until the economy turns around and people start spending again, but it would provide jobs to those who manufacture the things we would buy.

BUT--I have a fundamental ethics problem with this course of action. Other American taxpayers or even Chinese lenders do not owe me or my company ANYTHING gratis. I would not accept "free equipment, etc" from the government because I have come to understand our government officials. They would expect something back--nothing is free. I would rather continue to work hard, and replace what we need as we need it, remaining beholding to nobody but ourselves. With that attitude our company has provided excellent careers with great benefits to all of our employees. It is a very blue collar non union company. We don't need or want anyone to do things for us that we can do for ourselves as a company. I don't presume to speak for our employees as individuals. They may have their own agenda, but as a company we do not.

Gordon90N,

The problem is, this bill was not supposed to be a bill to save BATS. It was a bill that was supposed to save LONG TERM JOBS. The bat gate project is SHORT TERM. This bill is giving people raises and increasing entitlement programs, but is NOT creating LONG TERM JOBS.

I agree with you, bats are very important - I always tell people that if you want to get rid of mosquitoes, buy a bat house. Unfortunately, this bill should not be used to save bats. That task should be a line item for a state or local government. I wouldn't expect someone from New York City to pay for a culvert project in my local rural area any more than they should expect me to pay for a dog pile pick up project in Manhattan.

The bat gates are not there to keep the bats in. It is to save the one idiot who walks into the mine shaft every five - ten years and falls down a shaft.

The sheer stupidty of some of these projects is incredible.

If the Government had given out a quarter of the stimulus as non taxable income, to every tax paying American it would have covered the unemployment and have created more jobs than this bill has.

Who do you think got the contract to construct the bat cave door?  That would be a small business.  Also, bats eat mosquitos, it's not a bad idea to protect a cave from people wandering in, but allow useful bug-eating bats out.   If people on Newsvine would just use their brains occasionally for something other than whining, maybe they'd be employed,  instead of lurking on blogs all day long, frothing at the mouth.

OK.

To the people who keep saying "give it to the people!"

If the money was given directly to the people of the US (which hey, if it was a perfect world; I'd be all for) you do know what the horrendous consequences would be?

...Right? You know - the consequences such as; hyperinflation, dollar devaluation?

Come on, if everyone in America had 100,000$ Do you honestly believe that no one would raise their prices to make that 100,000$ seem like 100$?

RV in GB#1 #1.37.

Many years ago I saw that Texas was installing many bat houses under bridges. The plan was to significantly reduce the mosquito population, and in doing so, reduce the spread of disease born by them. It was a big success.

Keeping people healthy, especially during hard times, would appear to be a worthy goal.

I understand your point, but considering what some of the stimulus is being used for, anything to help people stay healthy during these tight times would seem to be worthy goal.

Though giving it to the people is a pipe dream... isn't what is going on with the money already going to drive inflation up?

The distribution of the money is slow in coming for political reasons. With the election of 2010 coming on, much of the money distribution is being held to go to those districts that are represented by particular Senators. When that district shows a flourish of jobs, those people will in turn be less likely to vote out their representative who helped to put them in the bad situation in the first place.

There are many shovel ready jobs out there. But the red tape and calisthenic courses that contractors have to go though are excruciating. Make one mistake on the paperwork and you have to go back to square one.

Meanwhile the stock market got immediate infusion and they're are back to business as usual. Most of the investment dollars are going overseas and we are not seeing it hit Main Street USA. Hey, China just had it's best quarter for car sales/purchases ever! Outsold us by the tune of somewhere in the 500,000 unit category.

This is a sad situation for us because we are afraid to clamp down on import and export... and we are politically staying away from "buy American" slogans and promotion because we do not want to hurt our trading partners feelings. We'll just let the American worker take that on the chin too! We can handle it!

The whole mess is like someone came along and erased people and their lives away! Instead of doing an ethnic cleansing.... they just did an income cleansing. Now they can somehow try to make themselves out to be the heroes rather than the villains. When they talk about income re-distribution.... that only includes those who are middle-class redistributing theirs to others. The rich won't feel the effect.

Amazing how they will spend money to build gates to keep bats in, but no gate or fence to keep illegals out! Something is wrong with this picture.

They are not keeping bat's in, they are building a gate that allows them free travel and keeps them safe from human jerks. If we don't have bats we loose a huge corner of our pest control. One bat can consume 600 mosquitoes in an hour, multiply that by how many bats, then think about West Nile Virus and all the money spent on spray, study and etc... There are numerous other examples of how important bats are.

As usual people understand bats as much as they undertand the stimulous and the good it is doing. So why try to explain - just let them complain and whine. If it wasn't this it would be something else they would @!$%# about and refuse to except or understand.

Blue Collar,

If you could read first before getting diarrhia of the mouth you would have noticed that I said we were suggesting shovel ready projects beyond our property line that would help us be more competitive, to solve problems with traffic, poor power, sewer and other infrastructure things. I guess the Feds don't want our American company and its 7 plants to stay here.

You are a Blue hard!

Oh, I'm sure the Administration will claim at least 2500 gate building jobs saved. One job for each 10 dollars flushed.

Created or SAVED..............

It seems to me that you could use virtually ANY number you please, at ANY given time, since EVERY job could be considered "saved".

My job was "saved", but it has NOTHING to do with the $800 billion stim-useless bill.

I'm very happy for the company that got that one contract to patch a road in my county!

Happy days are here again!

When you are in charge, you can come up with all the "fuzzy math" you want to make your point work. And it's fuzzy math. Print, spend and borrow should be our new national motto.

The idiot responsible for the moronic headline of this piece should be euthanized to put him/her out of the misery of living with 1/5 of a brain. Or at least placed into a room full of mosquitoes for three or four months. The bat population is in decline due to white nose syndrome, a malady still under intensive study, which effectively is fatal to bats. Why is this important to anyone? Well , it is important because each bat will, in its lifetime munch through around TWO TONS of mosquitoes. Who will in turn NOT munch on you. Get the picture? You laughing at this program now? This is precisely the type of thing the federal gov't should be responsible for, so we don't end up like one of those African $#itholes with Bono sending us mosquito nets. So, whoever penned this piece of crap, I suggest you go back to whatever journalism school you got kicked out of and take research 101.

BTW, I am an active caver and it is partly due to the fact that serious practitioners of my hobby have through volunteer efforts, and by voluntarily as a group stayed out of caves until this bat ilness is resolved, that this potential serious health problem ( um, malaria?) can be abated.

Robin what are you talking about? The gate will allow the bats to exit but keep STUPID people out of the mine! Not one word was said about not helping the bats.....They are not funding, save the bats from "white nose syndrome" so your post doesnt make any sense. Why cant we just put up a sign that says....hey dont go into the mine you could die or get hurt?.. Oh thats right because some people think the dont have to follow rules...thats the real reason the gates are being built. So maybe you should go back and re read what was written in this article....and take reading 101

Let me get this straight your name is Robin and you're a Batman. That made me chuckle.

........and by the way, very good post. Thanks

DD the purpose of the gates is to keep people out of the caves to eliminate the variable of cavers transmitting White nose from one cave to another on dirty cave gear. The NSS has created a very specific set of decontamination recommendations for the serious researchers working on the problem as they move from one cave to the next, it is important that anybody else, including the somewhat experienced recreational caver remain out of any cave, particularly in the east central region to just stay out of the caves until the cause and transmittal of WNS can be determined. Since there are more folks in caves who don't even have the requisite knowledge of nor respect for these delicate environments, much less the understanding of their importance than those of us who do, these caves must be gated. It seems clear that you haven't a clue as to what you are talking about. And you are precisely the reason these caves need to be gated. These aren't mines we are talking about btw. And if you wish to learn the difference, perhaps you might try reading something, or, you could just jump into each.

Bats eat mosquitos, and flies. Mosquitos spread disease, including several kinds of viral encephalitis, all of which can be caught by humans, and some of which can be fatal. In the United States some of these viruses are:

• Eastern equine encephalitis
• Japanese encephalitis
• La Crosse encephalitis
• St. Louis encephalitis
• West Nile virus
• Western equine encephalitis

Here's the link for all the details: http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/diseases/list_mosquitoborne.htm In tropical areas, the diseases are worse. Better to build a bat gate, to let the bats live. Of course, really, don't read that link and be educated, it's better to just all be uneducated and rant about how stupid a bat cave gate is. Better use of our time.

Nice post UrbnPrsn, I agree! Many people just think bats are flying rodents. That is so untrue. Each bat can live up to 20-30 years, and they only have one or two pups per year. Even loosing one has a huge effect on the environment.

Wouldn't you think that a "DO NOT ENTER" sign and a camera would be cheaper. If some idiot walks into the cave and get bitten, it's their own fault. Time to make people responsible for their own actions. Period.

Of course it's short term. That's what's needed to get the economy going again. The long term effects will be well.....long term. Increased money in the community can't be bad for it.

Repaving roads at cost does not generate enough stimulus to justify the debt being taken on, they are trying to get peoples confidence up, but doing it without any substance.

Short term, I see.... I agree the brief influx of cash to communities had to do some good over the summer.... And I understand the governments short term cash infusion accomplished this, but it seems to be - well - just so short sighted...

Since the jobs ended, the folks that were working on those short term projects, have they been switched to working full time? Or have they since gone back and added to the unemployment numbers?

Help me understand: "The long term effects will be well.....long term." ??

Due to the economy, I've seen companies still in business cut back and streamline to increase their profit margin. But they have not been hiring or rehiring, as evidence in decent finacial numbers at some. Those still in business just seem happy to do more with less with the economy the way it is.... "long term" - this hurts unemployment numbers and adds to the deficit buy continuing the benefit being paid out (+20 weeks now).

And new businesses are not springing to life. Those potential startup's have elected to stay on the sidelines.

So, I'm afraid I just don't see that the stimulis really accomplished sustainable "long term" jobs. We are still just limping along with no end to this in sight.

I would've thought to really jump start the economy again, instead of handing out "stimulus" cash, an offset in that amount applied to lowering business tax rates would have gotten applied across the board so all companies (big and small) got the benefit and thus been encouraged to keep people and hire more "long term".

I also think that a business startup tax credit incentive could have been instituted to help new ones get off the ground and running - hiring new people.......

The stimulus money should be put to jobs that create a revenue for the county and/or state, like small businesses that employ people!!!

Ferro,

I disagree strongly. Long term jobs are what is needed, not short term jobs. After short term jobs are started and finished, people go back on unemployment and collect even more from the government/taxes. The stimulus should NOT be used for ENTITLEMENT PROGRAMS, it should be used for LONG TERM JOB CREATION.

Spunkholio #5,

I think you'll find that the government is using this to distract all of us peons (non-politicians), of how bad most of their policies (especially spending & not balancing the budget) have been __— kind of like magicians misdirecting your attention so you don't see what they are really doing.

I'm afraid that their jig on the taxpayers is up. Unfortunately, the takers who do not produce, outnumber taxpayers. Since the takers get to vote, and they outnumber us, we are so scr*wed. It's not if the US will break (run out of credit), but when. At the rate the Congress and administration are going, that point can't be too far off !

How's the abundance of jobs working out for those Obummer wonks who voted for the idiot? Oh yeah, Community Organizer. I apologize! Odumba doesn't have a clue and his only actions are driven from his puppet masters.

This time next year, he'll have lost his majority in the house and senate. Then he can lame duck his way to his ouster in 2012.

The only change you can believe in is what's left from your dollar- and it's mostly zinc pennies, which are detrimental to the environment. Somehow, that got by the green Czar. This administration knows no boundaries. Worse that that, they don't know basic Economics I. They must have slept through that course earning those law degrees. Speaking of law degrees, why isn't tort reform being visited as a solution for health care reform? Oh, that's right, they are all in bed with each other. How did I forget that one!

What if Obama/Biden loss the election?

Do you think McCain/Palin would have done a better job?

Even though - Palin said - "the fall of wall street was because of too much regulation" and the countless other dumb remarks.

Even though - McCain through out the election never really had a clue about the economy. When asked the question - What do you consider being rich in America today? He said, a net worth of 15+ million dollars and he doesn't even know how many homes he owns...

And add the fact that McCain is one stoke (the coffee addditive) away from giving the highest office in the land to Sara Palin. When you look at it logically and stop complaining I think we are better off.

At least McCain and Palin aren't socialists.

They certainly wouldn't appoint out and out Communists such as Annita Dunn and Van Jones.

Obummer has a plan, notice that Benton County in Wash., State is going to demolish a nuke plant there and close nuke waste dump in Arizona was shut down....gee once all the nuke plants go down because there is no more room for waste,,,we have no power.

Everyone will want cap and trade right? The plan is to destory our contry......

Duffy, is that the same reactor that the super liberal Patty Murry left on stand by for YEARS at 42.5 million per year? And when U.S. companys came up with the money to use the reactor to make Medical Isotopes for the treatment of cancer she said NO.

Well at least we are some what relieved of the Halliburten states of America

Rick I don't know which one, there are a lot of them there. Worked there in 1980. All I know is that there are 2 half finish plants that would employ 15,000 workers to finish them ! That 1.6 Billion would get close to finishing them. God help us.

I work on Nuke plant #1 thru WPPS

I don't care what McCain/Palin would have done. What matters is what the poeple who got elected are doing! setteling for the lesser of two evils is what this country has had to decide between for far two long! Obama got elected he needs to make sure everybody from the local level up are using the money to save or create jobs. Not more Government jobs so we have raise taxes to pay for more workers. Not a temporary fix like we have right now (and it's not a fix the best I can call it is a complete failure stall)

But to get back to your point of McCain/Palin, your argument is childish and immature to think that we are better off because of who else was running.

Of course we are better off. The thought of the stale right wing policies they would try to pass would be the death of this country. I shudder to think of Palin anywhere near the presidency. The economy overall is coming out of the near miss of a great depression and it takes time to get it moving forward.

Define "near miss" to an unemployed worker with a family to support. One who has always been employed.

I'm trying to figure out why, with so many unemployed AMERICAN construction workers, all of the job sites that I have visited here in western WA looking for work are covered with Mexicans, not Americans. Does anyone besides me see a problem here?

Where do yo0u get the idea that the jobs are not going to American concerns? It wasn't in the article that we're discussing, unless I missed it. The jobs I see are for locally based small construction firms anad local people.

I seem to remember a clip from the Stimulus hearings from Barney Frank that there should be safeguards so that he money doesn't go to "white, male construction workers".

Hey Barney. rascist remark, sexist remark, why do you want construction people kept from working???

Over65

Your right on the illegal's part. Illegal's are most benefiting this and you and every other shmuck pays for their needs, fringe benefits. Until people start protesting and speaking out against thess illegal's they will still keep bleeding the system and us tax payers will pay for it out of our own pockets more. Why do people vote for democrats or any other stinking politician that supports illegal's? I will never vote for anyone that supports illegal's who have no respect for our laws.

Illegals cannot apply for stimulus money. Quit spreading lies. This isn't Fox.

Show me tjhe Barney Franck statement. I don't believe you. Perhaps there was another word "only" in there somewhere that would drastically changer the meaning.

You certainly can thank Goe. W bush for their presence as he was the one to hanstring the border guards to make sure they could cross safely and in massive quantity.

SteveYo

Illegals cannot apply for stimulus money. Quit spreading lies. This isn't Fox.

Cite your source. I dont see where anyone said illegals were applying for stimulus money.

Illegals do work under the table for cash though, so construction company owners that are having a hard time can hire cheap labor, so if an illegal is working and an experienced construction worker is not, I'd say illegals are benefiting from stimulus money.

The post above mine my "source", not that it's a source.

If a company pays people under the table that is the company's decision--not the government's. That would happen regardless of who is in power.

So what's your point?

Steve Yo;

Illegal's have been getting alot of stuff you don't know about. Are you behind close doors of Washington to know they aren't? I've seen to much in the hospitals were illegal's are draing the system and laws are not enforced. Illegal's are a big part of this country's financial problem which the tax payers get stuck paying for it. So please spare me ok? I wont waste my time with you. Talk to the hand.

Second buddy I am a proud Independent who caresless for either party. I hope both parties drown for what they are doing to this country.

Bbyanko

We have bigger problems right now.

I acknowledge that illegals create a drain on certain systems, but at this point, we'd be plugging up a small hole while ignoring a big one, if this was the focus.

Nobody in Washington has put together an "illegals stimulus plan" or anything like that.

Steve and Ferro,

You may be excited about this entitlement stimulus package - good, then the two of you should go ahead and PAY FOR IT! The rest of us want a real stimulus package that actually goes toward LONG TERM JOBS.

Sorry, Ferro; It wasn't Barney Frank, it was Robert Reich.

Here's your link http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nT1TkLgfinE&feature=PlayList&p=B3CCBFF98A905C56&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=9

The wind turbines are being made in the USA.

Actually there is a contract for wind turbines from China, some politicians are trying to change that though

If something is assembled and installed in the USA, does that qualify it as "made in the USA?" Just wondering.

Wind turbines are build in Ohio, by GE Energy, China is far down the list. Half of all wind generation is the US is built by General Electric. This is from Wikipedia. Wind Energy is a small and big business manufacturing and utility business in the US. Young people are getting good pay installing and repairing turbines. But I guess you'd rather believe what you want to believe.

1. Vestas (Denmark) 4,500 MW
2. GE Energy (United States) 3,300 MW
3. Gamesa (Spain) 3,050 MW
4. Enercon (Germany) 2,700 MW
5. Suzlon (India) 2,000 MW
6. Siemens (Denmark / Germany) 1,400 MW
7. Acciona (Spain) 870 MW
8. Goldwind (China - PRC) 830 MW
9. Nordex (Germany) 670 MW
10. Sinovel (China - PRC) 670 MW

Don't you mean the two inch minnows that cost us 40,000 jobs near the San Joaquin Valley becasue they are drying up farm land to save a worthless fish? And they can't even substantiate the fact that opening up the pumps will kill off this most valuable member of our ecco system. We've moved down four spots on the food chain according to these a holes. For anyone who has a brain, this country is run by two major gorups- Environmentalists who have duped us into the bogus climate change shi. (thanks to Al "I won't debate a scientist" Gore, and the ACLU, who defend the wrong people. ACORN and SEIU are just smaller versions of the corruption ruining the USA.

That's right! $400 - 600,000 for each supposed job created!!! (Temp jobs at best!!) Let's see, the national average for a teacher or a firefighter or a plumber is in the mid $40,000's. The average for congressmen & senators is near $180,000. WTF?!?! The government still could've given every working AMERICAN $20,000 and stimulated the economy much better than lining their own pockets, the pockets of those states who supported the criminal BHO, and the $60 BILLION in BONUSES (paid by our tax dollars people!!!) given by the government to JP Morgan Chase executives. Sicker by the day. Me and this country....

The bat-gate is a good idea, but I'd much rather that the idiots who thought that THIS was a "shovel ready project to put more people to work and keep unemployment below 8%" had been walked into the cave first.

a Simple sign would have worked.. It would have kept us Law Abiding Conservatives out. While saving between 4500 to 25000 dollars. I am sure someone could have Produced and Placed that sign for 500 dollars. Or hey. why not get the Environ"mentalist" to donate the money to get it done,

Steve

It's not law abiding conservatives that need the gate, but those that are unabiding. Hello?

Thank You Steve thats what I saidreplying to a post by some lady going on about white nose syndrome like we werer trying to kill the damn things off. I just wanted to know why we couldnt use a damn sign.....

Steve Yo if your unabiding then you get what you deserve....hello? Its a shame we have to build bat gates to keep stupid people out of the damn mines.

"I For 1 think the bat gate is a good idea and certainly not a waste of fund. Open your minds people."

I am too if we can get to fit the "moon bat" liberals and keep them from destroying this country. ;-)

The gate is to keep people who ignore signs out of the cave. They go in, they get lost, they die, and then guess what? Their relatives sue, because the tax payers have deep pockets. That's why we need a gate. Not a dumb idea. Cheaper than lawyers.

Health care is a service industry. Jobs are created by sick people going to a medical clinic or hospital. Education also provides jobs. This is how the economy works. Money that allows people to get services that are provided by other people. Money is just a medium. To get an economy running you have to have people able to find a way to get and pay for goods and services. To keep it running you have to provide for the ability to earn more from innovation and hard work, but that won't get it running.

Perter, only three? Don't forget Shemp, Joe Besser and Curly Joe Dorrita (sp?) too. You could also throw in the Marx Brothers, Laurel and Hardy, Abbott and Costello, Fatty Arbuckle, Leon Earle, Edgar Kennedy and Charlie Chaplin, and you still have a number of unnamed comedians in congress, the senate and president with his own commedian Joe Biden. Joe stands alone.

Rebuilding roads, what I've seen locally again with local companies, is just what you're asking for. Where's your complaint?

Obama is wrong no matter what he's done right.

Stop whining! Did you expect the gov't to buy you a new trailer?

And they were laid off why?..Because even they couldn't/wouldn't twist and spin the numbers enough show a stable employment picture? Warning, don't cross this Administration. They tend to destroy anyone and everyone that tries to tell the truth about the lies the Administration is telling.

Don Vito Corleone, you are correct. My state (RI) is up to 13.5% unemployment. It's doing a marvelous job. And now they are talking about Stimulus II. Get out your old Monopoly boards and start grabbing the money in there, because that's exactly what our country is printing to pay for all these non-working programs. Thank God (sorry aethiests, but too bad)I invested some money in Gold and Silver about 6 years ago. Notice how they are climbing? And hyper inflation hasn't hit yet. Our monetary system used to be backed by Gold. If we were to legitmately back it now, gold would be well over $6000 and ounce, which is outrageous. Sad to say I heard an alarming statistic yesterday- if 1/3 of our working force lost their jobs today, they'd only have 6 weeks before they ran out of all of their savings. This is sad. I say we need a 10 million man march to DC, and grab each and every one of these clowns while they are in chamber and feed them to an angry mob.

This is Jimmy Fallon!!!

But perhaps more accurate than Glen Beck!

That's what 8 years and $8.3 Trillion added to our debt has done.

Yep...welcome to the United States of Chicago.

California received the most money, if you read the article. I don't think Arnold and Obama are buddies.

Yep. Baseball bats are vital. Do you know that the vampire bat is the only useless creature on earth? It offers nothing to our ecco system and has no know natural predators. Compliments of the Animal Planet. so, we should save them too? Sorry, but people come first. Since when do lower species overtake humans on the food chain? Only under the Obama administration could something as foolish as this happen.

There won't be any U.S. manufactured goods if we keep losing workers. The point is the stimulus money needs to be used to ACTUALLY create more JOBS and long term projects (which I doubt will ever happen). No one is saying bats aren't important... but there are better uses for the stimulus money that can help boost the economy.

How the hell can you buy anything in the US? Nothing is made here anymore. Except for a car (well some cars), or some food from a local farm (many stores import vegetables from south of the border), virtually everything is made overseas and imported. Even our "Green" wind farms that our government so graciously dupes us into believeing as alternative energy to "save the environment" from a myth of global warming, the friggin turbines are imported from China. If that isn't a kick in the rear, nothing is. They have you brain washed, my friend.

David,

Are you saying I'm brainwashed? Not sure to whom you're directing your comment. But I agree 100% with you. That was the point of my comment was there are no more US made goods these days, everything is imported.

I know what you're saying. My father worked at a GE wind farm in southeast Colorado for many years and none of the parts for the turbines are manufactured in the US.

Bringing manufacturing back to the US would create many jobs and bring strength back into our economy.

The US is still the number one manufacterer in the world http://www.wisegeek.com/what-are-the-top-manufacturing-countries.htm http://investing.curiouscatblog.net/2008/01/22/top-10-manufacturing-countries-2006/ http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_country_has_the_largest_manufacturing_industry_in_the_world http://nam.org/~/media/Files/s_nam/docs/237700/237687.pdf.ashx The problem for manufacturing jobs isn't imports but the fact it takes less people to produce the same amount of goods. It is going the way of farming, reletively few people working in it but a lot of output.

Loyalty is commendable, doggedness merely denotes the inability to reason.

David

I see GE made wind turbines go past my window every day. I know what you're saying is wrong.

Even with the vast amount of off-shore jobs, the US is still the #1 manufacturer in the world. We do need to keep jobs here, but that can only be done when profits take a back seat to the welfare of Americans, something that the right would never be party to.

I am an animal lover and I believe in helping any species in need, but like the poster above said....bats do not come before people. And they are building the gates to keep STUPID people from going into the mines! A sign should be able to do the trick, unfortunately some people were not born with common sense enough to stay out so....gates are now "needed"

Ferro,

We are not only #1 but #1 by a good margin 57% more than China, 85% more than Japan and 272% more than Germany. The problem isn't that we don't make a lot of stuff, the problem (for employment, at least) is that things are automated to such a point that it takes far less people to do the work of one. This the same route farming took and there is little we can do about it short of deliberately stagnating ourselves.

I think you guys are missing the point. It's important to still allow bats to live in caves/mines. Because when they can't live in caves, bats go move to places where humans live. Bats are well-known carriers for diseases like rabies. Wouldn't you rather the bats live far away from humans? Besides, the gates are also there to keep humans out, because it's dangerous. It's not even that much money, all things considering. Plus it keeps people employed. There's no real good reason to complain about this, except if you complaining is the way you make a living.

DaForce--Don't worry, if the consumer won't or can't spend, our gov't will spend our money for us to make up the difference...LOL

So enlighen us with your vast knowledge of where we are going to get money to pay for all these wonderful programs? The right is right.

Dumb right wing nuts fail (and the ones screaming that the money should have gone to small businesses) to realize that even this "bat gate" project was tendered off to a "small business" construction company to do the actual work. Much better than your DADDY BUSH giving billions to the CEO's of BIG CORPORATIONS, isn't it?

commonsense, Large parts of this stimulus package are going to entitlement programs.

Just wondering - which CEO's of big corporations received "billions?"

RV, it's called "bailouts".

Megan, that wasn't my question, my question was "which CEO's of big corporations received "billions?" [It's called "bailouts"] is not an answer to that question. My question is in response to "Much better than your DADDY BUSH giving billions to the CEO's of BIG CORPORATIONS, isn't it?" I just want to know which CEO's received billions?

I think that the "bailouts" that you are referring is the TARP bill that was authored by congress and signed by President Bush in October of 2008. Correct?

I don't know...how much?

Where are the JOBS?

The dingo's got your jobs. The GOP shipped them overseas and never to be seen again. Remember this each time you get a great deal at Walmart.

actually Dallas Dude ...you should be thanking the Clintons for that:0)

Way to go Harry Reid and Nevada!

Heck why put the money into repairing the roads and freeway system in Nevada.

Harry wants to help his furry friends the bats.

Never mind about having one of the highest unemployment rates in the country .

Mr. Reid enjoy your last term Nevada will be voting you out next year.

Heck, Nevada would vote for a dog on the ballot over you.

he only won by 500 votes last time,but i don't think even the mormons in cow country can save his ass this time

At least, if it is FORD, we have a reasonable expectation of it not getting flushed down the toilet like Chrysler and GM...

Um... no? Navistar started with McCormick, merged with Deering, then became International Harvester.

In 2001, Navistar formed a joint venture with longtime (20 years) customer Ford Motor Company^[4] to manufacture medium-duty trucks and parts including diesel engines for both parent companies. The new company, Blue Diamond Truck Co. LLC,^[5] operates in the Navistar plant in General Escobedo, Mexico .^[6] Its first products were the 2004 Ford Super Duty F-650 and F-750 trucks.

(The bold and italics are mine) So until 2001 Ford was a customer of Navistar, not a parent company or subsidiary. Now they are a partner in building diesel engines.

If the money is going to Navistar, not Blue Diamond Truck, that means Ford ISN'T getting any money.