IRA suspect charged with '77 murder of British spy

defender of the oppressed

Many catholics did not see the IRA as a defender, they oppressed their own communities, murdered and carried out punishment beatings on catholics who cooperated with the police. Many catholics were simply too scared to stand up to them. Activities that are still occurring in some catholic communities today. The IRA murdered 338 catholics.

They were nothing more than a terrorist organisation that used indiscriminate bombs to kill, maim and blind 100s of innocient civilians. An organisation that selected innocent protestant workers from catholics on a bus and massacred 10, bombed a remembrance service killing 11 people, shot up a gospel hall killing 3, detonated 20 bombs in one hour across belfast killing 9 injuring 100s, left 3 car bombs in the small village of claudy killing 9, the Teeban massacre (8 killed), Shankill massacre (9 killed) etc etc etc all innocent civilians, women and children, including catholics and protestants. What about Omagh 29 killed by the RIRA, a breakaway group from the IRA.

a problem they have created for themselves

Republican terrorist groups simply won't accept that the majority of the people in Northern Ireland want to remain part of the UK including many catholics. People that have been living in Ireland for 100s of years, long before America became a nation.

If you had read my quote carefully, I said they saw themselves as defenders of the community, not the other way around.

I will agree that the IRA (in its many forms, whether PIRA, Official, Real, Continuity, what have you) morphed into an indescriminate killing machine. This was caused by the English forcing the Irish to take up arms in the early part of the 20th century to claim their right of self-government. Once you put the gun into politics, you can't easily remove it.

Nowhere did I say the IRA was not a terrorist organization. read my comment again. Where did I say that?

What I am saying is this: for 800 years the English left the Irish little recourse but to armed struggle, and then blamed them for struggling to keep their land and culture with the only tools available to them.

My comment was to refute the Idea that all the catholic community saw the IRA as their defenders.

I will agree that the IRA (in its many forms, whether PIRA, Official, Real, Continuity, what have you) morphed into an indiscriminate killing machine. This was caused by the English forcing the Irish to take up arms in the early part of the 20th century to claim their right of self-government.

You can not cause people to morph into killing machines that are content to murder innocent law abiding civilians (women and children) no matter if they have/have not any grievances.

What I am saying is this: for 800 years the English left the Irish little recourse but to armed struggle, and then blamed them for struggling to keep their land and culture with the only tools available to them.

Over the last 800 years virtually every land in the world has been subjected to European powers (Dutch, French, Spanish, Portuguese, English etc etc). intent on empire building, and colonisation, that was the way of the past and was often violent. American colonists destroyed a way of life a culture, a people. In Ireland the English murdered innocent Irish and likewise the Irish murdered innocent settlers (eg the Portadown massacre)

The Irish like every other nation did have had just reason to fight for governance of their own land, but those days are long gone. The IRA of 1916 was not the IRA of the 1970s. They lost many members who saw that the IRA had become a terrorist organisation that thought nothing of slaughtering innocent people.

"The IRA of 1916 was not the IRA of the 1970s."

That's exactly what I meant by "morphing into an indescriminate killing machine." This is ridiculous.

Right, but all I'm saying is that if the English had gone along with home rule in the first place, the IRA probably wouldn't have existed. By forcing the Irish pro-independence movement to work outside the political system to obtain their goals, the Westminster government played a significant part in creating this problem.

This is ridiculous

Too right I know what you meant by morphing I was agreeing with you but objecting to your implication that the English caused them to morph. As you said

............. morphed into an indescriminate killing machine. This was caused by the English forcing the Irish to take up arms in the early part of the 20th century to claim their right of self-government.

the IRA probably wouldn't have existed

A form of irish combantants has always existed and may always exist. In the last few weeks republican bombs have been found and defused. They have no public support but are still intent in creating carnage.

Of course the british government played a role in creating the problem in 1916 and later during the troubles, no one would disagree, both sides were guilty. The scale of violence particularly by the IRA and the loss of so many innocent lives was horrific and unjust (I'm sure you agree).