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Swine flu booster shots? Good luck with that

Mon Nov 16, 2009 8:25 AM EST
health, only-on-msnbc-com, flu, swine-flu, shot, vaccine, pandemic, swine, doses, fauci, emily-newman
msnbc.com News — By JoNel Aleccia

Emily Newman and her two-year old twins, Rory and Everett, at their home in Seattle. Though Newman had her children vaccinated against H1N1, they weren't given necessary booster shots and recently contracted the virus. Newman is especially concerned for the health of Rory, who has a compromised immune system due to Type 1 diabetes.

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— In a frantic search for swine flu vaccine, Seattle mother Emily Newman called a dozen clinics and some 50 pharmacies before she finally found shots last month for her 2-year-old twins.

“It was our first night's sleep in a long time," said Newman, 39, who responded to msnbc.com’s reader reporting tool, First Person.

But Newman’s relief over protecting her daughter, Rory, and son, Everett, against H1N1 influenza infection was short-lived. She soon realized she had a second worry: What about the booster?

Government health officials say that children younger than 10 need two doses of the vaccine to gain immunity from the pandemic virus that has killed some 4,000 people in the United States since April, including 540 kids.

But a shortage of vaccine has meant fewer than 42 million doses have been delivered nationwide out of at least 120 million expected by now, federal health officials report. A manufacturing delay has sparked long lines, shuttered many flu clinics and sent an ominous message to parents seeking a second round of H1N1 shots: Don't count on it.

“We have found virtually no one to assure us that we will find a booster shot soon,” said Newman, who is especially worried about Rory, who has Type 1 diabetes and was hospitalized with a suspected H1N1 infection a week after her first vaccine. “The system seems to be failing in multiple ways.”

Two doses are necessary
Parents’ concerns are valid, said Dr. Anthony Fauci, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Disease. He oversaw the clinical trials of swine flu vaccine in adults and children and says latest results indicate that young kids need two doses about a month apart for complete immunity.

After a single dose of vaccine, only 55 percent of children ages 3 to 9 developed enough immune response within 21 days to protect them fully against the H1N1 flu. After a second dose, 94 percent were protected, Fauci said.

Among the youngest children, those ages 6 months to 35 months, only 25 percent posted a strong enough response after just one dose.

Until the vaccine shortage is resolved, however, parents should know that even a single shot confers some protection that may at least lessen the infection’s severity, Fauci said. And if a second dose is delayed a month — or even longer — that’s fine.

“A little is better than none,” Fauci said.

Officials with the federal Centers for Disease Control and Prevention advise that doctors and clinics should provide booster doses to kids younger than 10, even when other high-risk patients haven’t received a first shot.

“The bottom line is, a provider should not be deferring a second dose,” CDC spokesman Tom Skinner wrote in an e-mail.

Even so, some clinics nationwide have said they’ll delay second shots. At the Park Nicollet health system in St. Louis Park, Minn., hospital officials say they won’t reserve second doses for children who’d already received one shot.

“We have 9,000 high-risk people who have not received their first shot, so we’re making sure they receive that, and then we’re circling back,” said Jeremiah Whitten, a hospital system spokesman.

He said they were basing that decision on a CDC report last summer that told providers not to hold doses in reserve.

Not enough to go around
Other doctors and clinics are simply warning patients that there likely won’t be enough to go around. That’s the message Kristen Cunningham, 33, of Allentown, Pa., got when she found a first shot for her 2-year-old son, Jake.

“The doctor said, ‘Just so you know, he’s probably not going to get the second one, because we don’t know whether we’re getting it in,’” Cunningham said.

That uncertainty is frustrating to parents who had to go to extreme lengths to acquire the vaccine for their kids. Maigan Vanditto, 32, of Coeur d’Alene, Idaho, said she stood outside in chilly weather for nearly an hour with her daughters, Lizzy, 5, and Allie, 2, to get swine flu shots at a local health clinic.

“I am grateful that the kids have shot No. 1, but they were very clear when we were leaving that we were not guaranteed a place at the next clinic in 28 days for the kids to get the necessary booster shot,” she said. “As it stands now, they really aren’t protected.”

But Cynthia Taggart, a spokeswoman for the Idaho health district that’s doling out the shots, said supplies of vaccine have been slow, but they’re increasing. She advised that Vanditto and others who fear it’ll be impossible to get their kids fully vaccinated shouldn’t worry.

“It is possible and they will be protected,” said Taggart of the Panhandle Health District.

Mixed message
In the Seattle county where Emily Newman lives, health officials are advising providers not to reserve vaccine for kids who’ve already had one shot. At the same time, if children who’ve had a first shot show up for a second dose, providers shouldn't turn them away, said James Apa, a spokesman for Public Health of Seattle and King county.

“It's a very mixed message,” said Newman, who added that such “passive” advice angers and scares her.

Rory was seriously ill with suspected swine flu, but the diagnosis was not confirmed and doctors say the toddler needs a booster shot to be certain she won’t come down with a potentially fatal version of the illness.

Everett, Newman’s son, should get a second shot, too, but he’s a healthy boy and not nearly as at-risk as his sister, she says.

That distinction is at the core of Newman’s frustration with the way swine flu shots have been distributed in Seattle and across the nation. She believes there should be more emphasis — and more enforcement — to ensure that priority groups are actually getting access to the limited supplies of vaccine.

“They’re not accepting at all that there are certain individuals who need that second shot more,” she said. “If you fall into multiple risk categories, you should be at the top of the list.”

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Jump to discussion page: 1 2 3
mom2two

So if they can tell exactly what percentage of kids have immunity after one and then two doses, they can obviously test for immunity. Why not just check Rory and see if she has the antibodies she needs, rather than risk another potentially unnecessary shot. This would also put her poor mother out of the misery of wondering.

  • 4 votes
#1 - Mon Nov 16, 2009 9:40 AM EST
onetearofjoy

All the tests cost money and an insurance won't cover that. It is just that easy. What makes me so mad is that it always hits the once who are most in need. Somehow they always fall through the cracks of the system.

I read BS about women should not get pregnant because of the flu. I got pregnant in March, the flu started in April. I'm sure I'm not the only pregnant woman out there at this difficult time. I had problems finding the H1N1 shot for myself even though I was at high risk because of the pregnancy and Asthma. When I was looking for the shot in Oct. the local health department gave the shots out only to kids 6 month -49 month. I felt like I was falling through the cracks just like little Rory is now.

    #1.1 - Mon Nov 16, 2009 10:15 AM EST
    Snuffy Smith

    This is ObamaNation Fault!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    If this was Bush you LIBS would be beating down the door!!!

    "O" I forgot you did in 2004...Where are all you LIBS now!!!!

    • 8 votes
    #1.2 - Mon Nov 16, 2009 11:11 AM EST
    NU Wildcat Fan

    Even if insurance covered the test, it is impractical from the standpoint of cost.

    • 1 vote
    #1.3 - Mon Nov 16, 2009 11:52 AM EST
    lvingbarefoot

    Where is John Kerry? Why is he not out on a soapbox blaming Obama?

    • 6 votes
    #1.4 - Mon Nov 16, 2009 12:34 PM EST
    Sam-294559

    Where is Henry Waxman? He screamed GW was killing Americans when there were seasonal flu vaccine shortages during the GW presidency. Why is it OK now with both seasonal flu and Swine Flu to RUN OUT of vaccines. My daughter is in a high risk group and finally got her seasonal flu last Friday. Swine Flu, not available. OH it is OK when with the libs when they screw up. I forgot, my bad.

    • 6 votes
    #1.5 - Mon Nov 16, 2009 12:51 PM EST
    Snuffy Smith

    Are you talking about "the" John Kerry that served in Vietnam and put himself in for a purple heart...Someone said he was back out on the Sec. of State trail trying to help Hilliary do her job !!!!!!!

    • 1 vote
    #1.6 - Mon Nov 16, 2009 12:53 PM EST
    orbustDeleted
    Old Texas Democrat-1278171

    Our clinic is charging less than $20.00 for the shot. The vaccine is furnished by the government. The cost of a vaccination is not the problem. The problem is how to cover about 15,000 patients with the 200 or so shots we have received. Folks, this is where health care is headed. We will pay more for less care, period.

    • 1 vote
    #1.8 - Mon Nov 16, 2009 1:39 PM EST
    finetuned1

    agreed oldtexasdem - they can't even deliver on vaccines, and they want us to trust them with our entire healthcare.

    • 4 votes
    #1.9 - Mon Nov 16, 2009 1:59 PM EST
    maddog-752810

    In the meantime the pharmaceutical companies raise their prices. Same song different lyrics.

      #1.10 - Mon Nov 16, 2009 2:15 PM EST
      npr

      it's a manufacturer shortage you nimrods not a government shortage. i would say that i am amazed by some of you people's stupidity but i'm not.

      • 4 votes
      #1.11 - Mon Nov 16, 2009 2:20 PM EST
      Old Texas Democrat-1278171

      Manufacturing shortage, yes. Government miscalculation, procrastination, and failure to guide vaccine manufacturers, absolutely. This was declared a national emergency, but the government fumbled the ball. By the time all of these agencies talk about it and play CYA, it's too late. Pretty soon we'll be up to our hip pockets in vaccine, but by then a lot of people will be past the crises. The Army used to work this way. We damn near starved to death for a few weeks, but by the time we'd been there for a while, we threw away hams and turkeys by the truckload.

      • 2 votes
      #1.12 - Mon Nov 16, 2009 3:01 PM EST
      saxon

      If you check on line, you will find that the cdc, forgot to order from one of the nations biggest suppliers; it wasn't until august that the order was places, even though the pharmaceutical company was ready to start production last February; that was the problem when the government announced that they were several million doses short.

      • 4 votes
      #1.13 - Mon Nov 16, 2009 3:07 PM EST
      MrFrost

      Wow, I thought it was about Swine Flu vaccine, didn't know the article was about politics only. Oh yea, the spring broke in my toaster this morning, burnt the toast, pretty sure it's the governments fault.

      • 4 votes
      #1.14 - Mon Nov 16, 2009 3:10 PM EST
      FW-1029331

      Exactly. I have Crohns disease. My medicine costs 1500 a month without insurance and I've never had a problem getting it. Since when is this a government fault? These companies make a killing making medicines. The nuts who are calling clinic after clinic in a panic are also insane. You do realize that Mexico originally lied in the amount of deaths? They reported nearly 400 and there were 19??

      • 1 vote
      #1.15 - Mon Nov 16, 2009 5:23 PM EST
      justice fleeting

      My entire family already got the swine H1N1 flu. It was the worst sickness we ever had.

      Thanks for the plentiful vacines Federal Government. I don't ask for much from you, but you just can't seem to get it right these days. My family recovered, but I think we were lucky. Many weren't and will not be lucky.

      You really blew it!

      • 1 vote
      #1.16 - Mon Nov 16, 2009 5:24 PM EST
      sunnytoo-754501

      The public is the final phase of "clinical trials". come on everyone, figure it out!

        #1.17 - Mon Nov 16, 2009 6:23 PM EST
        Reply
        Scuba-scubby

        That would make too much sense...And why didn't they confirm what she had earlier...then she wouldn't need it either.

          Reply#2 - Mon Nov 16, 2009 9:48 AM EST
          MonkeyMo

          Have we really lost all sense of how the human body works in this country? If she had the virus already then she won't get it again. Having the virus is nature's way of immunization - once you contract the illness, then your body can now recognize and (normally) fight off any reoccurance. This is the same theory behind vaccinations. So if the child DID have it, why worry about a booster? And ditto mom2two, a titer test will easily indicate if she has antibodies to the H1N1 virus, and given her recent illness, will indicate if a second shot would even be necessary. Funny thing though, the actual shot is supposed to carry a dead version of the virus, yet so many people I know are coming down with the virus within a few days of the shot. Interesting and unlikely coincidence?

          • 7 votes
          Reply#3 - Mon Nov 16, 2009 9:52 AM EST
          Tha' Dude

          Not true. The influenza viruses mutate rapidly, which is why you have to get a new flu shot every year. Because of the rapid mutation, it is basically a guess as to whether the developed vaccine for a given year will work. You could very easily get the flu twice in one year because of the spped of mutation. You are correct about viruses like measles which mutaute slowly. Once you'v had it, you're theoretically done.

            #3.1 - Mon Nov 16, 2009 12:35 PM EST
            Indy Patriot

            There are a 1000 strains of the flu virus, H1N1 is simply another strain. Nothing special.

            So when you get the seasonal flu shot, you're only getting last years' emergent viruses...they don't help much for this year.

            It's all BS anyways.....flu shots don't save lives, in fact many people get sick FROM the flu shot itself.

            • 9 votes
            #3.2 - Mon Nov 16, 2009 1:04 PM EST
            sfs

            Monkey Mo,

            Chances are the people you say are getting sick were already exposed to the virus just before getting the vax.

            • 1 vote
            #3.3 - Mon Nov 16, 2009 1:09 PM EST
            Robert-413014

            So instead of giving the recommended second shot we do an additional test and ifit is needed give the child the shot (which we don't have enough of). Is this how we cut healthcare costs?

            It is really scary when many in this country are mimicking the politicians and putting the party before the country.

            • 1 vote
            #3.4 - Mon Nov 16, 2009 1:39 PM EST
            Reply
            KMM-895241

            H1N1 is rampant here - very high percentages of students out of school.  Yet, people aren't being tested.  We had an 18 month old child with flu symptoms and pneumonia and it was only after 4 office visits and our insistence that he was tested.   So, from a parent's perspective, if your child has had the "flu", but hasn't been tested you don't really know whether they have had H1N1 or not.  So, how do you know if they still need the vaccine, assuming of course that you can find a vaccine to receive! I find this entire thing frightening. What happens if we are ever hit with a pandemic that is more deadly?  Is H1N1 an indication of how it would be handled?

            • 1 vote
            Reply#4 - Mon Nov 16, 2009 10:04 AM EST
            NU Wildcat Fan

            The test (RT-PCR) for pandemic H1N1 costs $300. Impractical.

              #4.1 - Mon Nov 16, 2009 11:49 AM EST
              Chick-379869

              H1N1 has been the dominant strain of flu this year. Two weeks ago a doctor told me that all cases of flu were considered H1N1 because it was too early in the season for regular flu.

              • 1 vote
              #4.2 - Mon Nov 16, 2009 2:48 PM EST
              maddog-752810

              The funny thing about health costs, referring to NU Wildcat Fan's comment. Makes me wonder why no one questions the actual costs of tests and treatments. Why should a flu test cost $300, why should it cost $300 per stitch to get sewed up, why should it cost $250 for a five minute visit with a doctor? Our healthcare system has become pretty much disfunctional, not so much for how they can actuctually help people but by making is completely unaffordable.

                #4.3 - Tue Nov 17, 2009 11:09 AM EST
                Reply
                RJ-1651

                Friday, November 13, 2009

                A young woman in France has been diagnosed with the crippling illness Guillain-Barre Syndrome (GBS) after a swine flu shot, following reports yesterday about a Virginia teen who was similarly struck down by the disease hours after receiving the H1N1 vaccine.

                The woman, identified only as a health worker, was diagnosed with GBS six days after she received the swine flu shot, according to the French health ministry.

                Health Minister Roselyne Bachelot said the case diagnosed was light and that the woman was recovering.

                “News of the apparently vaccine-related illness is likely to dampen enthusiasm here for getting vaccinated against swine flu,” reports Deutsche Presse-Agentur.

                France has been at the center of a Europe-wide resistance to getting the swine flu shot, after authorities initially announced their intention to vaccinate the entire population. Outrage peaked in central Europe following the revelation that German Chancellor Angela Merkel and government ministers, as well as the armed forces there, received a special additive-free H1N1 vaccine that didn’t contain ingredients such as mercury and squalene that were included in shots for the general public.

                France’s swine flu vaccination program has barely even begun, with so-called “high risk” individuals starting to receive the vaccine from yesterday. Reports of side-effects this early will do nothing to change the minds of 83 per cent of the French public, who indicated in a Le Monde survey they they would not take the vaccine.

                55 per cent indicated they would take the shot in September, but that number has now plunged to just 17 per cent, figures partly influenced by media attention on the case of nine individuals who have filed formal charges in the French courts claiming that the H1N1 mass vaccination campaign is a deliberate attempt to poison the French population.

                The drop in numbers willing to take the vaccine mirrors that in Germany where just 13% now say they are willing to take the shot, down from 51% in July.

                Similar resistance to taking the vaccine is widespread throughout the continent, from Scandanavia to Bulgaria to the Netherlands, there is barely a country in Europe where a majority of the population have indicated they will take the vaccine and in most countries the vast majority have indicated that they will not get inoculated due to fears of side-effects

                As we reported yesterday, a high school athlete from Virginia was diagnosed with Guillain-Barre syndrome hours after receiving a swine flu shot, but health authorities are attempting to dismiss the connection as a coincidence, precisely as they resolved to do long before the H1N1 vaccination program even started.

                Despite GBS’s clear historical link with the swine flu shot after more got ill from the vaccine than got swine flu during the 1976 mass vaccination program,, allied with the fact that health officials back in August warned neurologists that they needed to look out for increases in cases of the brain disorder following the launch of the immunization program, asked about the case of McFarland, the CDC’s Dr. Claudia J. Vellozzi claimed that there was “no clear link between the new vaccine and the disease.”

                Efforts on behalf of health authorities to claim that debilitating side-effects and nerve disorders such as GBS have no connection to the vaccine, despite the fact that they are clearly listed on vaccine inserts as potential dangers, is unsurprising considering this is precisely what officials resolved to do before the swine flu mass vaccination program began.

                Back In September, Reuters reported on how public health officials were expecting “an avalanche of so-called adverse event reports, which are reports of death, illness or other health trauma,” in the two weeks after people receive the vaccine.

                Authorities therefore resolved to dismiss any connection to the swine flu shots a host of heart attacks, strokes and miscarriages that “will be blamed on the H1N1 vaccine,” effectively performing a blanket diagnosis months in advance.

                Earlier this month, the U.S. government appointed what the media ludicrously billed as an “independent” group of health advisors who were tasked with whitewashing adverse reactions to the swine flu vaccine and ‘explaining’ them to the public as mere coincidence.

                The group is headed up by none other than Dr. Marie McCormick of the Harvard School of Public Health. McCormick and her affiliated organizations have routinely issued reports over the past 10 years supporting the government’s position on the link between vaccines and autism, dismissing a correlation entirely despite overwhelming evidence that contradicts this notion. McCormick has been widely criticized by other health experts for her dogged denial of the link between vaccines and autism

                Last week, when the first H1N1 vaccines became available, 62% of American respondents to an ABC News/Washington Post survey said they will probably not get vaccinated, while 30% said they are not confident in the shot’s safety.

                Despite a relatively low number of deaths in the U.S. (see table below), coupled with the fact that the H1N1 virus remains mild, President Obama declared a national state of emergency over the weekend, prompting fears of mandatory vaccinations and martial law.

                Meanwhile, in Europe, similar levels of rejection of the vaccine have been reported, with large portions of Danes, Finns, Germans, French, Spanish, Belgians and Dutch people all saying they do not intend to take the shot.

                The number of refusniks is set to increase following reports late last week of severe side effects and even deaths in Sweden and Bulgaria that may have been linked with the vaccine.

                In France, nine individuals have filed formal charges claiming that the H1N1 mass vaccination campaign is a deliberate attempt to poison the French population.

                In Germany, where the mass vaccination campaign begins today, just 13% now say they are willing to take the shot, down from 51% in July.

                The dramatic fall off in willing recipients follows revelations that government officials, the German military, police and members of pandemic crisis committees will receive a non adjuvanted H1N1 vaccine, while the general public will only be offered the GlaxoSmithKline Pandemrix shot, which contains squalene and thimerosal.

                Parent's scrambling to get the H1N1 vaccine? I don't think so.

                • 6 votes
                Reply#5 - Mon Nov 16, 2009 10:11 AM EST
                T. Lawrence

                If the Government can't deliver the H1N1 vaccine as promised .. how can we believe they'll successfully manage a health care program? Wake up people!

                • 7 votes
                Reply#6 - Mon Nov 16, 2009 10:23 AM EST
                Kerry-257967

                Do as I say not as I do.

                It is called hypocrisy. I just call them idiots.

                I do not believe in vaccines, maybe that is why I am against Socialists and Socialized medicine.

                • 3 votes
                #6.1 - Mon Nov 16, 2009 1:17 PM EST
                Dragon1986

                If the Government can't deliver the H1N1 vaccine as promised .. how can we believe they'll successfully manage a health care program?

                You didn't read the fine print. It will be real easy after the population has been reduced by 80% of course. And if anyone asks, Baxter's bioweapon originated in the Ukraine.

                • 1 vote
                #6.2 - Mon Nov 16, 2009 2:13 PM EST
                JustinPM

                Does the government own the H1N1 vaccine? Find out the answer to that and you'll find out why production of it isn't meeting demand.

                  #6.3 - Fri Nov 20, 2009 8:28 AM EST
                  Reply
                  charles turner

                  our regime is nothing but inept, incompetent marxist fools. one and done!

                  • 4 votes
                  Reply#7 - Mon Nov 16, 2009 10:23 AM EST
                  Dragon1986

                  I assure you, they are not marxist. It is clearly fascism, which makes me wonder why more republicans don't give their support.

                  • 1 vote
                  #7.1 - Mon Nov 16, 2009 2:14 PM EST
                  Mark_DW

                  Leaves me no doubt why Liberals do give their support.

                    #7.2 - Mon Nov 16, 2009 3:39 PM EST
                    Reply
                    the thinker-318752

                    The government readily admits that the flu strain has the very real potential of mutating into a new strain. So why the big concern over whether they people get the first or booster shot. These people worrying about getting a booster shot before others get a first shot are being very self centered. They obviously know how hard it is to locate the vaccine and yet they feel entitled to "seconds" before others get "firsts."

                    Your government at work for you. Insight into their effectiveness at "national health care."

                    • 3 votes
                    Reply#8 - Mon Nov 16, 2009 10:40 AM EST
                    Scuba-scubby

                    The gov't doesn't manufacture the vaccine. Yes they over promised based on the information the pharma companies gave them...they can only dole out what is delivered.

                    That being said, this H1N1 is all hype with no testing being done for confirmation. And if you read the package inserts, you will note that its effectiveness for pregnant women is not known...

                    Also, an ABC news report went and looked at the H1N1 claims from earlier in the year and found that 80-90% of the "claimed" infections, weren't H1N1...

                    • 2 votes
                    Reply#9 - Mon Nov 16, 2009 10:52 AM EST
                    the thinker-318752

                    Agreed. The government doesn't make the vaccine but they do oversee and have insight into other aspects of the pandemic. When they first came up with the thoughts that this could go to such a level, they made sure they pushed the program. Kind of like the pandemic that happened back in China(?) a few years back when it was going to become a world-wide problem with the respiratory illness.

                    That is part of the reason for the lack of "confirmation testing" when a person goes for treatment after coming down with symptoms. They really don't want to know the actual statistics so they have quit testing making the assumptions that 80-90% are H1N1 cases when they have no data to support such claims. But until someone can refute that claim it will stand. Because our government said it is true, it MUST be.

                    • 2 votes
                    #9.1 - Mon Nov 16, 2009 11:13 AM EST
                    nurse-1006475

                    But we can be tranquil and thankful and proud that Wallstreet was given vaccines that others need. Wow--I can sure sleep better now!

                    • 1 vote
                    #9.2 - Mon Nov 16, 2009 12:03 PM EST
                    Paul MN

                    the thinkerI can tell that gov has you brain washed. You also believe that there has been 4000 death in the US already which the total of world according the WHO which I would not believe even if they are right. They are reason everybody is worried. This is not anything to worry your self over. There were allot more deaths back in 1919-1920 than there will be from H1N1(or the pig flu).

                      #9.3 - Mon Nov 16, 2009 3:07 PM EST
                      Reply
                      SCCMSTL

                      I am constantly amazed at the number of people who expect absolutes in life, who will turn a simple public health matter into a political issue, and who have not grown up sufficiently to realize that all of life is playing the percentages, one way or another...  How horrible it must be for these folks as they go through life, carrying the themendous burden of their fears.  Generally speaking, life sucks - live with it!  

                        Reply#10 - Mon Nov 16, 2009 11:38 AM EST
                        Paul-1359246

                        What a pathetic situation for this Country!!  After having Obama's Health and Human Services Secretary screaming all through the summer that everyone "must absolutely get this shot", the CDC plus Health and Human Services still is 70% below goal on the initial injections and 100% below goal on the booster injections for young children.  Absolutely a miserable failure on the part of the Federal Government, and a great indicator of things to come once ObamaCare/PelosiCare is approved by the unsuspecting public.  Over 4000 folks have died so far from the swine flu or its complications.  What is it going to take for the public to wake up and tell Congress to shove the health care reform measure where the sun don't shine!  No congressman or senator who votes for the health care bill should ever get re-elected or receive 1 dime in donations!  These socialist-communist bastards make me sick!!

                        • 4 votes
                        Reply#11 - Mon Nov 16, 2009 11:43 AM EST
                        sunnytoo-754501

                        Ya notice how suddenly there are so many Doctor shows on TV giving advice, they don't even follow through and topics are BS to scare people. Just look at the audiences. they really should explain preventative care, again, exercise, diet, then s/s, initial tests and meds, then next level of tests. That Travis guy, he thinks the louder he speaks, someone will listen, he means well, but is very inexperienced. Too much time selling products/commercials, that music on that show is horrible. Also, they talk and show treatments that are inaccessible, unnecessary to most people. Dr. Oz has more common sense. atleast. It's less of a business to him, atleast he cares, still and is entitled to his high salary.

                        Why don't they just expose medical hoaxes/illusions and clear all the junk info they impose on patients every day, all the unnecessary junk, all the otc meds, self treatment. What a crock. Here's a few, one doc told me my sx were from aspergillous molds, well, they are everywhere as is most molds/bacteria. None of my blood work proved this, nor did skin testing. I asked him to treat it if I had it. He basically Rx a small dose of antifungal med in 1500ml for irrigation. Expensive for clean water and very ineffective treatment for a symptom I don't even have. He's fired.

                        All you anti histamine takers, probably have vaso motor rhinitis, which Ipratroprium or saline nasal spray is effective, not antihistamines. All the allergies and depression is most likely environmental pollutants and industrial and processed foods. So, get off your duff, eat only food that is grown, I've never seen snack foods grown in a garden. Come on America, get with it.

                        You've been dumbed down with all the junk otc meds/foods and induced laziness, poor lack of control, spending, eating, consumption. that's the disease, greed, consumption. At all levels. All that extra wt, hospitals/clinics have to buy industrial beds/transport equipment to carry that around with your neurosis. Since most people aren't compliant with these meds, as evidenced by what is in the water system, what are you doing out there? Why give your money to Rx companies? OH, most meds are meant to be taken for a lifetime. People with incurable illnesses will die, sometimes hastened by the meds to treat them. Fact. Best thing to do, stay away from doctors for your own sake. Wash your hands, gargle w salt water, eat right, exercise. What a waste of time and life.

                        ex trauma RN

                        • 1 vote
                        #11.1 - Mon Nov 16, 2009 6:43 PM EST
                        Reply
                        SCCMSTL

                        I am constantly amazed at the number of people who believe that somehow their existance can be founded on absolutes, or who can turn a simple public health matter into a political agenda. It must be a horrible existance to go through life with such a burden - someday perhaps they will grow up sufficiently to realize that we are constantly playing the percentages - nothing is absolute, and that generally speaking, life sucks. Get over it! Move on!

                          Reply#12 - Mon Nov 16, 2009 11:48 AM EST
                          SCCMSTL

                          I am constantly amazed at the number of people who believe that somehow their existance can be founded on absolutes, or who can turn a simple public health matter into a political agenda.

                          It must be a horrible existance to go through life with such a burden - someday perhaps they will grow up sufficiently to realize that we are constantly playing the percentages - nothing is absolute, and that generally speaking, life sucks.

                          Get over it! Move on!

                            Reply#13 - Mon Nov 16, 2009 12:07 PM EST
                            adesixkiller-1453914

                            I think contributing to the confusion is that the WHO is saying kids under 10 really are fine with only 1 shot.  I'm comforting myself with the fact that my kids have had 1 dose,  they've got some immunity, if not all, and if they did get it, it probably won't be as severe.  My concern is with them being DANGEROUSLY sick.  If they're KIND OF sick, whatever. 

                              Reply#14 - Mon Nov 16, 2009 12:32 PM EST
                              Kerry-257967

                              Tell the sheeple they need ten shots each and there are a few stupid people that would to do it too.

                              It is more then the Feds just claiming they know what they are talking about, it is the blindness of the sheeple that actually treats the propaganda as gospel and they preach it on the mountain.

                              Vaccine fanaticism.

                              • 4 votes
                              Reply#15 - Mon Nov 16, 2009 12:42 PM EST
                              bob-1468349

                              There's no hope, we're all going to die...

                              • 1 vote
                              Reply#16 - Mon Nov 16, 2009 12:44 PM EST
                              Sigh-268832

                              I'm seriously beginning to wonder if Stephen King knew a thing or two.

                                #16.1 - Mon Nov 16, 2009 4:49 PM EST
                                Reply
                                Greg in OceansideDeleted
                                honestyfirst

                                Bush et al were constantly hammered for the aftermath of the New Orleans hurricane despite the biggest problem was local and state. Now that 10's if not 100's of children (and pregnant women) are dying no mention on the so-called major media on the failings of the Obama health care team. Fair and balanced?

                                • 2 votes
                                Reply#18 - Mon Nov 16, 2009 12:55 PM EST
                                Indy Patriot

                                OMG- Stop making this a political issue. Go and rant on FOX, where all the other ignorant BS-artists go to when they're bored......

                                Katrina was a failure of Bush's criminal regime to do ANYTHING....they sat on their a$$es and watched old people die because they were black and poor. If Katrina had happened in New Jersey, this wouldn't be an issue!

                                Second, thousands of people die each year from the normal seasonal flus that occur naturally. Tragic as it is, there is no way to stop it. All the drugs in the world won't stop people from dying from the flu, and those very same drugs would be even more harmful, imo. Vaccine or no stupid vaccine, how is this Obama's fault? It's MUCH harder to stop an emerging virus than it is to send in the National Guard to pull people to safety.

                                So Bush sucks, Obama sucks too (just not for this), and you're an idiot for thinking it has anything to do with politics.

                                • 2 votes
                                #18.1 - Mon Nov 16, 2009 1:28 PM EST
                                Robert-413014

                                But is does have something to do when you promised change and it now appears that you lied and only repeated what was on the teleprompter. If you were really for change, than you would never have been surprised with the low amount of vaccine available. You would have been monitoring the supply chain from Day 1 instead of pushing your political agenda and traveling around the globe.

                                  #18.2 - Mon Nov 16, 2009 1:44 PM EST
                                  Indy Patriot

                                  Robert....my friend.....my dear, dear friend.........I would take this time to pick apart your post, but honestly, nothing you just wrote makes ANY sense in ANY context. Even within your own post there are inconsistencies........

                                  Just.....go relax....have a beer, watch the game.......and let the rest of us debate this for you!

                                  • 2 votes
                                  #18.3 - Mon Nov 16, 2009 1:51 PM EST
                                  Reply
                                  b-rad-1308979

                                  The pharmaceutical companies are a disgrace.

                                  • 2 votes
                                  Reply#19 - Mon Nov 16, 2009 12:57 PM EST
                                  Tha' Dude

                                  Why?

                                    #19.1 - Mon Nov 16, 2009 1:19 PM EST
                                    AC Robertson

                                    You can thank WJC for running the vaccine companies out of the USA. Remember when his administration forced the companies to supply vaccines for school children at cost to the US Gov??????

                                    Bush Jr has numerous companies build new processing plants in the USA. But the Gov pick-up ALL the construction cost. Ha! Ha! see Novartis in NC and others

                                    The local health clinic was giving out booster shots this weekend, in eastern NC.

                                      #19.2 - Mon Nov 16, 2009 1:21 PM EST
                                      Reply
                                      Mike-451571

                                      They can take their booster and shove it you know where. Every single booster on the recommended vaccination schedule is due to a percentage needing it, NOT ALL. So, what do we do, a) Shoot everyone up (eg 'Carpet Bomb' the place) literally taking out thousands of civilians (causing immune disorders across the board). - OR- b) test the immune system to see if there is a immunity set up after the initial shot.

                                      Yes, the common sense folks will pick b, unfortunately we are not in office or in control of the CDC. It was commented that it cost money to to do these tests. Well, dollar figures should NEVER CONTROL OUR HEALTH. Health is simply that and the day we cheapen that by cutting off testing or care is the day that the insurance companies own it. Oh, we are already there. (*@&$(% Thanks not to Obama, but for many administrations past who were complacent except to their own stock dividends.

                                      It just pains me to see the ignorance continue in our pathetic knowledge of the immune system. Our own allergist admits that it's still a frontier that we know so little about, but claim to. We are good at understanding air born allergies but still amateur on environmental and ingested ones. But hey, we got a vaccine for any ol thing.

                                      Some day, our children are going to look back and wonder why we were so stupid. They will be smarter than us, and the writing is on the wall today about just how damaging over vaccinating is. They'll be pissed, and rightfully so. Will we be ready to answer to them?

                                      • 3 votes
                                      Reply#20 - Mon Nov 16, 2009 1:09 PM EST
                                      Indy Patriot

                                      My family and I WILL NOT be getting the H1N1 vaccine!!! PERIOD!!

                                      It's all a hoax, designed by the government to put more money into the coffers of the pharma industry, (who's stocks were dropping last year, incidently)

                                      Eat good, diverse, organic food; exercise several times per week; get adequate rest; reduce stress; drink lots of water; and if needed, supplement with Vit. D, Vit. C, zinc and selenium.

                                      If people would stop jabbing their kids with this crap, we wouldn't have nearly any of the rates of autistic spectrum disorders that we do! If people would stop feeding artificial crap to their kids, the kids would be healthy and would easily fight off any flu that they do come across.

                                      It's not hard, people, WAKE UP and learn the facts about the situation. Do not trust the government (who is complicit) or the doctors (who do not know).

                                      • 4 votes
                                      Reply#21 - Mon Nov 16, 2009 1:11 PM EST
                                      sfs

                                      Indy,

                                      As the parent of a child with autism, I respect your concern for vaxes and an autism link. But, yes, while there is a lot of crap in the vaxes we give our kids, please remember that not all children who get vaxed end up on the spectrum or with any disability for that matter (my oldest and youngest are not on the spectrum). I and many others believe we have children genetically susceptible and that something ultimately triggers it. What that trigger is, God only knows. It may be vaxes, it could be the cleaning chemicals we use in our home, the crap in the food we eat, a medicine we take in pregnancy because we have no other choice the possibilities are endless and all we can do until a definite cause is found is to limit exposure to those things we believe may be a trigger.

                                      I respect your opinion, and am not trying to get into a vax debate. I just felt like your comment about vaxes was too broad and general. Some feel as you do and others feel as I do about triggers for autism.

                                        #21.1 - Mon Nov 16, 2009 1:25 PM EST
                                        Indy Patriot

                                        No doubt there are multiple potential triggers for autism.......

                                        But since I did not make any blanket statements in my previous post, please don't attack me for something I did not say.

                                        That being said.....30,000 kids in the Amish country in Penn., only 4 cases of autism......and 3 of those children had other congenital diseases.

                                        There is a link between vaccines and autistic spectrum (PPD) disorders, research just hasn't completely nailed it down yet. If you look at (and I'm sure you know this already, just saying) the history of vaxes and autism....every time the vaccine schedule goes up, the rates of PPD do too!

                                        And no, I'm not trying to make this a debate about Vax vs. Autism either, my point was directly aimed at the unnecessary campaign for swine flu vaccines that may be causing more harm than good.

                                        • 1 vote
                                        #21.2 - Mon Nov 16, 2009 1:37 PM EST
                                        sfs

                                        Please understand, I wasn't trying to attack you.

                                        The way your statement about jabbing and autism was worded, it sounded as if you believed vaxes caused autism. There are people who believe it is the only cause. Truth is, we don't know for sure what causes nor the why it happens.

                                        If I misinterpreted you, I'm sorry.

                                          #21.3 - Mon Nov 16, 2009 2:11 PM EST
                                          sunnytoo-754501

                                          lot of inbreeding within cultist circles, not just Amish, Mormons or the Bluebloods. Had some strange diseases, incurable. At any rate, they seem to eat better, be mentally healthy, except for the sex abuse/molestation rates, secretiveness, lack of free choices , even living in America. Who pays for Amish healthcare when they work within their own groups?

                                            #21.4 - Mon Nov 16, 2009 6:55 PM EST
                                            Reply
                                            milwifeDeleted
                                            sfs

                                            There's a lot of backpedaling going on now.

                                            First we're told one shot is enough, then they must have 2 to be fully immunized. Now, it is suddenly OK to only have 1 because gosh darn it, we screwed up and didn't think this whole thing through to ensure every person who needs (and wants) a vax can have it.

                                            I just love how the story changes to suit the officials' needs and cover their a**es.

                                            • 2 votes
                                            Reply#23 - Mon Nov 16, 2009 1:13 PM EST
                                            good person

                                            am i reading this right??? are some people saying that if you have the flu one time you don't have to worry about getting it again??

                                            • 1 vote
                                            Reply#24 - Mon Nov 16, 2009 1:15 PM EST
                                            AC Robertson

                                            If you have had H1N1 already, you do not need the H1N1 shots. According to the doctors I have talked too, but like the article said the test results are not accurate.

                                              #24.1 - Mon Nov 16, 2009 1:29 PM EST
                                              good person

                                              ok. i don't know why doctor don't know much about the swine flu (h1n1) if i keep hearing people say that this is not the first time this flu has been going around. the first time was in the 70's

                                                #24.2 - Mon Nov 16, 2009 1:42 PM EST
                                                Mike-451571

                                                Yes, it is true, and you have better immunity than a vaccine could EVER give you.

                                                Also, if you were an adult effected by what I think was called the H1M1 Swine Flu in the 70's, you have a partial immunity to this strain from what research has been finding. If you were vaccinated though back then (before they yanked that one for side effects), you may want to have your titers checked to see if you have the immunity if you are teetering about getting yourself vaccinated.

                                                I got the flu 2 weeks ago. It sucked for a couple days. But let's be real, life isn't always perfect and handed to us on a golden platter. That's why our bodies are designed to adapt and react as long as we take care of them.

                                                  #24.3 - Mon Nov 16, 2009 3:07 PM EST
                                                  Reply
                                                  idiots_around_me

                                                  I currently live in France and there's no rush to get vaccinated, this Fri. the news reported that 90% of the medical professionals nationwide have refused to be vaccinated here.

                                                    Reply#25 - Mon Nov 16, 2009 1:24 PM EST
                                                    Indy Patriot

                                                    Ahhhh, but that should tell us something shouldn't it? Funny how the vast majority of doctors in France refuse to take the vaccine, but here in good 'ol USA, our society just plods along like good little sheep, doing whatever our malevolent government tells to do.

                                                    I'm an American doctor....and I WILL NOT be getting the vaccine!!!

                                                    Vive la France! Liberte, Egalite, et Fraternite!!! (The things we USED to have here in America!....)

                                                      #25.1 - Mon Nov 16, 2009 1:56 PM EST
                                                      Reply
                                                      Sarcasticus1

                                                      I read that the swine flu is killing folks. I read that not everybody is dying from the flu. I read that the vaccine is in short supply and wasn't available to most people. I read that the vaccine is helping some folks and killing others. I read that the flu may mutate requiring more vaccines. I read that a booster shot is needed for the current swine flu strain. On a more positive note, America is still the greatest, one of the greatest, a major power, one nation indivisible, a nation owned by others in the world...never mind!

                                                        Reply#26 - Mon Nov 16, 2009 1:43 PM EST
                                                        Concerned-570778

                                                        Why would anybody shoot themselves up with shots that contain formyldahyde and thermisol (mercury) and other junk? In 1990 it was dictated that kidnergartners get a booster of MMR, DPT and polio. I asked the nurse are you sure its ok to give all of them at once. She said yes. Guess what my daughter developed guille barre syndrome. This is when I started to do my homework to understand vaccinations. My other 2 kids only recieved the basics. When I was a child I received even less and have never had any major disease. Here is a link from a doctor who was tired of seeing the effects of drugs on his patiences and went holistic. My mother loves the muscle and ache supplement. These are quality products.

                                                        http://www.drdavidwilliams.com/legacy/order/1009_do_not_get_shot_DTSLP.aspx?panelcode=BE001799&listcode=173716" href="http://www.drdavidwilliams.com/legacy/order/1009_do_not_get_shot_DTSLP.aspx?panelcode=BE001799&listcode=173716">http://www.drdavidwilliams.com/legacy/order/1009_do_not_get_shot_DTSLP.aspx?panelcode=BE001799&listcode=173716

                                                        Also you can get homepathic tissue/cell salts that have no preservatives that do the same thing as the flu shot. This is what I ordered and used on my family! There are alternatives. Don't be a sheeple! Drug companies are in for the money and don't care that what they make has side effects and can even cause death. My uncle died from a drug to control cholestrol. One of the side effects is that it is hard on the liver and my the time the doctors noticed it was too late and his livered shriveled up to nothing. Nothing could be done to reverse it and they said he was to old for a transplant. Even though the drug and doctors caused the issue. You can control cholestrol without drugs! We can control alot of things without expensive dangerous drugs through diet, exercise and alternatives!

                                                        http://www.elixirs.com/prodSearch.cfm?ProductName=swine+flu&ProductCategory=All+Categories

                                                        No to government control heatlh care! Yes to heathcare reform!

                                                        • 1 vote
                                                        Reply#27 - Mon Nov 16, 2009 1:51 PM EST
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