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NEW YORK — Hot sauce and a comb were all an al-Qaida suspect in New York needed to nearly kill one of his guards nine years ago. The bloody episode suggests that security worries in bringing Khalid Sheikh Mohammed and other 9/11 suspects to trial here could be just as big inside the courthouse as outside.
Already, the U.S. marshals are promising the highest security possible — an acknowledgement of how dangerous terrorism suspects have been in the past.
Attorney General Eric Holder announced Friday that Mohammed, the professed mastermind of the 2001 attacks, and four accused henchmen would be brought from Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, to New York to face a civilian federal trial.
The prosecution is planned for a court complex just blocks from where the World Trade Center towers were destroyed in the attack blamed on these men. The courthouse is among the most secure in the nation, ringed by closed-off streets, 24-hour guard posts, anti-truck-bomb barricades and street video cameras so powerful that they can read the print off a passerby's newspaper.
The Sept. 11 case would be the most spectacular of a half dozen major terrorism trials in New York that have already sent away the men blamed for the less devastating 1993 bombing of the trade center, a plot to blow up five landmarks in New York City, a scheme to blow up a dozen U.S. airliners over the Far East and the 1998 bombings of two U.S. embassies in Africa.
Holder's decision to try the Sept. 11 suspects sparked debate over the security risks posed to densely-populated lower Manhattan, but far less has been said about attempted violence by the defendants themselves.
At the same federal lockup where Mohammed and the others are to be held, federal prison guard Louis Pepe was attacked in late 2000 by Mamdouh Mahmud Salim, a former top aide to Osama bin Laden who was awaiting trial in the embassies case.
Salim surprised Pepe by using a squeezable plastic honey bear container filled with hot sauce as a kind of homemade pepper spray that temporarily blinded the guard.
The inmate then took a plastic comb ground into the shape of a dagger and plunged it into Pepe's left eye. The point pierced deep into his brain, causing severe permanent injury to his sight, speech, and movement.
After the attack, prosecutors say papers found in the cell showed Salim's plan had been to take hostages inside the prison and free his co-defendants. While such a "breakout" plot may sound far-fetched given the security of the federal buildings, in Salim's case the very attempt nearly killed someone.
Salim's lawyer in that case, Richard Lind, said he had "mixed feelings" about Holder's decision, because while he believes the suspects should be tried in civilian court, he has security concerns.
"The prison is not very secure," Lind said. "Maybe things have improved since then, but I think it would be very difficult to manage."
Bureau of Prison spokesman Edmond Ross said: "We ensure that the facility is secure and is run in a secure fashion, but I'm not aware that any particular heightened security procedures are going to be implemented."
It is likely, though, that the attorney general will approve extra security called "special administrative measures" — reserved for the most dangerous prisoners. SAMs, as they are called, prohibit a defendant from communicating with other prisoners, the media, or anyone not connected to their legal defense.
When Mohammed and the others are taken from their cells to the courtroom, U.S. marshals will provide security.
There, too, the last major al-Qaida trial serves as a warning.
During a pre-trial hearing, al-Qaida suspect Wadih El-Hage leaped out of a jury box that held several defendants and raced toward the judge, who maneuvered his tall black chair in front of him as a shield. The defendant was tackled by a deputy U.S. marshal and slammed against a wall next to an American flag, about a dozen feet from the judge.
The trial was held in a large ceremonial courtroom with its own security check — a sort of perimeter within the perimeter. Outside the building, heavily-armed marshals stood guard. When hijacked airplanes slammed into the World Trade Center towers Sept. 11, 2001, those same marshals rushed to the scene to join rescue efforts.
Jeff Carter, a spokesman for the marshals, said the agency will provide the maximum possible security. Both the marshals and Bureau of Prisons have "extensive experience managing the security of dangerous defendants and alleged terrorists in the U.S. judicial system," he said.
Even with extra security, some are convinced trial in a civilian court is a bad idea. The most high-profile critic so far has been former New York City mayor Rudy Giuliani, who said over the weekend the decision displayed "a lack of concern for the rights of the public."
New York Gov. David Paterson said Monday that holding the trial in the city "is not a decision that I would have made."
Mayor Michael Bloomberg tried to calm any fears.
"This is nothing new; we've done this a lot," said Bloomberg. "Every time there's a high profile case, we provide enhanced security. A lot of it you don't see, but it's there."
Josh Dratel, a lawyer who represented El-Hage, said it was right to bring Mohammed and others to trial in New York, both for legal reasons and because, he said, "there's nothing that makes New York more of a target" than it already is.
___
Barrett reported from Washington. Associated Press Writers Mike Gormley in Albany, N.Y. and Sara Kugler in New York contributed to this report.
© 2009 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.
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17
3.3
{"commentId":10711117,"authorDomain":"eric-albert"}
What is with all the fear-mongering by a military super power, that routinely murders, kills hundreds of innocent people, either with drones, or air power that wipes out 95 kids, infants and women?? What is it that these right wing ideologues, corrupt liberal class whores fear .....their own criminal activity, either in foreign policies or illegal torture, that could throw out a lot of cases???
Already 30 some cases have been thrown out, by the judges, because the government of Nazis, military thugs, essentially just kidnapped hundreds of innocent people, never charged them and had no evidence against them. With such corrupt and criminal histories, maybe the U.S. and the whoring corporate press, are afraid of its own criminal shadows:
Also the U.S. criminal rogue Empire has never examined why 9/11 happened, and is afraid that our criminal policies will be discussed openly that only reveals why counter terrorism exists against its State Terrorist policies. See for yourself:
Shining Light on Roots of Terrorism
http://www.afterdowningstreet.org/node/47784
But it’s a legitimate and urgent question: Would a more determined commitment by the U.S. government to secure an independent state for the Palestinians and to alleviate their suffering undercut the appeal of al-Qaeda and other extremist groups to young people in the Muslim world?
Or put differently, why should ardent supporters of Israel in the U.S. Congress behave in such a way as to make the Muslim world view the United States as disinterested in the plight of the Palestinians and thus increase the danger of future attacks against the United States, as well as against Israel?...
These so-called “friends of Israel” either don’t know or don’t care that this sort of resolution only makes matters worse regarding American attempts to defuse the explosive anger building across the Middle East. It is a gift to al-Qaeda.
Media commentary on the upcoming 9/11 trial of Khalid Sheikh Mohammed has raised concern that state secrets may be divulged, including details about how the Bush administration used torture to extract evidence about al-Qaeda.
“I think that we’re going to shine a light on something that a lot of people don’t want to look at” is how American Civil Liberties Union attorney Denney LeBoeuf put it, according to The New York Times on Saturday.
No problem, says Attorney General Eric Holder, who claims to have “great confidence” that other evidence – apart from what may have been gleaned from the 183 times Sheikh Mohammed was waterboarded, for example – will suffice to convict him.
Maybe so, But what the Fawning Corporate Media (or FCM) have so far neglected is the likelihood that the testimony will be so public that they will have to break their studied silence about why Sheikh Mohammed and his associates say they orchestrated the attacks of 9/11. Read more.
{"commentId":10711117,"threadId":"725880","contentId":"3508347","authorDomain":"eric-albert"}
- 3 votes
#1 - Mon Nov 16, 2009 7:15 PM EST{"commentId":10718289,"authorDomain":"kerwynw"}
Eric Albert: Thanks for the links and the FCM exposé. Bravo.
{"commentId":10718289,"threadId":"725880","contentId":"3508347","authorDomain":"kerwynw"}
{"commentId":10711919,"authorDomain":"CanadianDave"}
Excuse my ignorance, but doesn't this kind of violent activity take place all the time in maximum security prisons? Is there any reason to be MORE concerned about the Gitmo prisoners than other high-risk offenders in prison? If so, why?
{"commentId":10711919,"threadId":"725880","contentId":"3508347","authorDomain":"CanadianDave"}
- 5 votes
#2 - Mon Nov 16, 2009 7:52 PM EST{"commentId":10713477,"authorDomain":"serpad"}
I suppose the media is trying to paint the suspected terrorists as superhuman warlocks.
{"commentId":10713477,"threadId":"725880","contentId":"3508347","authorDomain":"serpad"}
- 3 votes
{"commentId":10713751,"authorDomain":"kshark"}
Canadian Dave--
Because other high risk offenders in prison don't have a 1.66 - 1.82 Billion following.
{"commentId":10713751,"threadId":"725880","contentId":"3508347","authorDomain":"kshark"}
- 3 votes
{"commentId":10715176,"authorDomain":"torabu"}
{"commentId":10715320,"authorDomain":"kshark"}
Torabu--
Sure........sure keep telling yourself that.
{"commentId":10715320,"threadId":"725880","contentId":"3508347","authorDomain":"kshark"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":10715639,"authorDomain":"CanadianDave"}
Kshark - So then justice IS NOT blind.
{"commentId":10715639,"threadId":"725880","contentId":"3508347","authorDomain":"CanadianDave"}
{"commentId":10715676,"authorDomain":"torabu"}
{"commentId":10715754,"authorDomain":"anrkist"}
Nor am I, but a person involved in killing 3000 innocent people scares me. I do mean everyone, not just "them."
For some of us, it's not a Muslim issue. Some of us are genuinely terrified of mass killings of any kind.
{"commentId":10715754,"threadId":"725880","contentId":"3508347","authorDomain":"anrkist"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":10716409,"authorDomain":"torabu"}
Nor am I, but a person involved in killing 3000 innocent people scares me. I do mean everyone, not just "them."
Yeah, there's decent reason to be afraid of these conspirators, like any mass-murdering criminal. The issue is Kshark's attempt to extrapolate that fear to every last Muslim, as if anyone who reads the Koran intends to do the same thing.
That is, of course, ludicrous, as there are documented examples of Christian terrorism; just as not every Christian is planning on killing you and your family, neither is every Muslim.
{"commentId":10716409,"threadId":"725880","contentId":"3508347","authorDomain":"torabu"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":10718084,"authorDomain":"malankuhn"}
I doubt these prisoners were read their Miranda Warning.
They are not getting a speedy trial.
They need one juror to hang the jury.
Evidence, most likely, was not collected at the crime scene as though they were criminals.
It will be difficult to find one person in New York who wasn't affected by this crime.
Attempt to try their "crimes" will become a circus as the defense attornies put the US Goverment on trial to defend their clients.
{"commentId":10718084,"threadId":"725880","contentId":"3508347","authorDomain":"malankuhn"}
{"commentId":10720240,"authorDomain":"kshark"}
Canadian Dave--
Justice has never been blind.
The whole eyes of the law thing, and equality, well for one thing humans are the law, for another thing things are not seen equally.
Holder already expect a conviction. How is that being blind justice. It isn't because frankly this whole "trial" is a farce.
------------------------------------------------------
Torabu--
Kshark
Sure........sure keep telling yourself that.
I'm not the one looking for reasons to be afraid of anyone that reads a different book.
No you are merely denying and appeasing. I don't care if they read another book. I care about what they do in MY country. They can do whatever they want in the Middle East. If they want to make the whole area implode, bomb each other to bits, and do whatever else fine, their choice. When it comes to the West, different story. If you have no real problem with what they do, I would say that is a problem.
That is, of course, ludicrous, as there are documented examples of Christian terrorism; just as not every Christian is planning on killing you and your family, neither is every Muslim.
Ah rightio so when was the last Christian suicide bombing? Where did that happen?
Yeah, there's decent reason to be afraid of these conspirators, like any mass-murdering criminal. The issue is Kshark's attempt to extrapolate that fear to every last Muslim, as if anyone who reads the Koran intends to do the same thing.
I never said all Muslims would do THIS, there is a different agenda happening.
-----------------------------------------------
malan--
What I have been saying all alone. But careful you will be accused of some sort of false claim with what you said. Just wait. Denial from people will happen.
{"commentId":10720240,"threadId":"725880","contentId":"3508347","authorDomain":"kshark"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":10728599,"authorDomain":"malankuhn"}
Fair assessment, but it will be fun.
{"commentId":10728599,"threadId":"725880","contentId":"3508347","authorDomain":"malankuhn"}
{"commentId":10728867,"authorDomain":"droveto"}
Everyone must remain afraid of brown people. They are born with a gene that makes them predisposed to hating people with freedom. They watch American TV all day and are completely jealous of all that Americans have. They want a cubicle and an STD to call their own. We must all realize that this is genetics as FOX news has been telling us for decades now. Please ignore the idea that an American bomb or bullet has killed a family member of just about every Iraqi alive today. This is simply a coincidence, it is genetics that makes them hate America. Please remain scared of brown people, our economy is only being held up by our quest to eliminate brown people and it's very important that you remain afraid.
{"commentId":10728867,"threadId":"725880","contentId":"3508347","authorDomain":"droveto"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":10737821,"authorDomain":"torabu"}
No you are merely denying and appeasing.
Denying and appeasing what? Those billions that have never set foot in America, nor made any action against it, have done nothing to be called followers of religious extremists. You're just extrapolating a radical view across an entire religion. I've already pointed out why that is a ludicrous position to take.
I don't care if they read another book. I care about what they do in MY country.
The only connection nearly all of them have is that book. To claim they are all the same or all have the same motives directly undermines that first sentence.
They can do whatever they want in the Middle East.
Many of them do just that; many more don't even live in the Middle East. Some live in Europe, some in Indonesia, some in Canada (my country), and even some in the US -- many of whom were born in your country. Your prejudice is revealed in your statements, attempting to paint every Muslim as an extremist Muslim, and that all of them live in Afghanistan and its bordering countries. Like they're an entirely different race in their own foreign land.
If they want to make the whole area implode, bomb each other to bits, and do whatever else fine, their choice.
Criminals that commit such acts should be brought to justice; this article is in reference to the current US Justice Department doing just that.
If you have no real problem with what they do, I would say that is a problem.
Which "they" are you talking about? The regular folks I meet all the time that attend the same schools we do, work the same jobs, and live the same lives (with the exception of religious worship)? Or are we talking about radically religious criminals, of which all religions have? If it's the former, then I'd have to say you're off your rocker. If it's the latter, then you'll be happy to know I do have a problem with what they do.
Ah rightio so when was the last Christian suicide bombing? Where did that happen?
Back in 1999 -- only 2 years prior to the 9/11 attacks -- members of an American-based Christan doomsday cult were deported from Israel for planning attacks on sacred sites. Also, have you ever heard of the Lord's Resistance Army? May as well call them the Christian Taliban. There are plenty of modern examples out there for people who do their research.
I never said all Muslims would do THIS, there is a different agenda happening.
I said you're extrapolating fear. That's hardly inaccurate, considering you deliberately implied that every Muslim follows the ideology of these criminals.
{"commentId":10737821,"threadId":"725880","contentId":"3508347","authorDomain":"torabu"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":10743944,"authorDomain":"malankuhn"}
Dan... next time you or your child needs a medical device to diagnose or treat a medical condition, thank a US citizen. The next time your child needs pharma to treat their disease or ease their pain, thank a US citizen. None of these devices or drugs are prejudice or detect the color of your skin.
Technologies developed in the US have been used to save hundreds of millions world wide.
I went to university with many foriegn nationals from countries including India, Pakistan, Iran, Lebanon, and China.
The US is open, generous and kind.
{"commentId":10743944,"threadId":"725880","contentId":"3508347","authorDomain":"malankuhn"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":10752674,"authorDomain":"torabu"}
malan, just to let you know, Dan Roveto's post was heavily drenched with satire. :P
{"commentId":10752674,"threadId":"725880","contentId":"3508347","authorDomain":"torabu"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":10712134,"authorDomain":"eric-albert"}
Canadian Dave:
It is because it is a political trial as well, as a terrorist trial.....which would really examine the source of counter terrorism, American Empire.
{"commentId":10712134,"threadId":"725880","contentId":"3508347","authorDomain":"eric-albert"}
- 1 vote
#3 - Mon Nov 16, 2009 8:03 PM EST{"commentId":10712447,"authorDomain":"cyoung101"}
Eric Albert It is because it is a political trial as well, as a terrorist trial.....which would really examine the source of counter terrorism, American Empire.
Canadian Dave:
Your right these trials are nothing more than political show pieces to keep the American people distracted while their elected officials robe them blind.
I have no pity for these murderers who have confessed that they have plot and acted out some of these murders. To give terrorist the same civil rights as American citizens stinks of tearony.
Obama, your day is coming in 2012, Liberals your is coming even sooner in 2010.
It will be many years before Americans forget the reckless behavior shown when Liberals were in power.
{"commentId":10712447,"threadId":"725880","contentId":"3508347","authorDomain":"cyoung101"}
- 3 votes
{"commentId":10712484,"authorDomain":"CanadianDave"}
Didn't we successfully try Zacharias Moussawi (the 20th hijacker) without undue difficulty? Why would we have greater problems this time?
Chuck - What is tearony?
{"commentId":10712484,"threadId":"725880","contentId":"3508347","authorDomain":"CanadianDave"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":10713012,"authorDomain":"anna1220"}
who said over the weekend the decision displayed "a lack of concern for the rights of the public."
It definitely does. And too much concern for the rights of terrorists.
{"commentId":10713012,"threadId":"725880","contentId":"3508347","authorDomain":"anna1220"}
- 4 votes
{"commentId":10713777,"authorDomain":"honor-and-harmony"}
Hmmm if theres so much evidence against them why not have a trial? 193 other terror trials took place under the previous admin and not a f'king word from the righties. Now all of a sudden trials are bad. Grow up rightwingers.
The rightwing is just scared that the suspects will start talking about torture and then the order for torture will be traced back to the previous admin who constantly said they didn't torture. Thats why the righties are really screeching.
{"commentId":10713777,"threadId":"725880","contentId":"3508347","authorDomain":"honor-and-harmony"}
- 3 votes
{"commentId":10712502,"authorDomain":"droveto"}
So, they have prisoners that are going to lie and say they hate America because of our "freedom?" I can't imagine the US government making this move unless they knew the information that will come out of it will benefit their implementation of more surveillance and to further strip the US citizens of their Constitutional rights. This whole situation is a joke anyway. These prisoners have near death experiences imposed on them weekly, I'm sure they got to a point where they will say anything to end the torture.
The way @!$%# works around here I wouldn't be surprised if they told a few guys there that if they go to trial in NY and make a spectacle and talk about how they hate Americans and their freedom and help out in our governments quest to have the most fearful civilians ever that they'll pretend to execute them and let them get back to their work.
{"commentId":10712502,"threadId":"725880","contentId":"3508347","authorDomain":"droveto"}
- 3 votes
#4 - Mon Nov 16, 2009 8:22 PM EST{"commentId":10712536,"authorDomain":"voguemalls-1"}
{"commentId":10712561,"authorDomain":"eric-albert"}
Freedom by the West and American Empire means Fascism, torture, more criminal foreign policies, more Wall Street theft, and two class parties cheering them on.
{"commentId":10712561,"threadId":"725880","contentId":"3508347","authorDomain":"eric-albert"}
- 3 votes
#6 - Mon Nov 16, 2009 8:25 PM EST{"commentId":10713054,"authorDomain":"anna1220"}
Freedom by the West and American Empire means Fascism, torture, more criminal foreign policies, more Wall Street theft, and two class parties cheering them on.
If this is how you see it, why don't you go to the places were "real" freedom flourish. I am sure we'll have too many people who would gladly take the space occupied by your persona.
{"commentId":10713054,"threadId":"725880","contentId":"3508347","authorDomain":"anna1220"}
- 3 votes
{"commentId":10713208,"authorDomain":"eric-albert"}
Anna-NYC:
What you are missing is your false comparisons.....apples and oranges cannot be compared. The apple has never existed.....true social alternatives....but the corrupt oranges are in fact a whole family of deformed class/imperial regimes that were created by none other than Western, American class tyranny.....including colonial states, Eastern Soviet states....all deformed hierarchies created by the same class forces....awaiting real fundamental democracy, real social power, social forces, and an end to Patriarchial class regimes.
{"commentId":10713208,"threadId":"725880","contentId":"3508347","authorDomain":"eric-albert"}
- 3 votes
{"commentId":10713437,"authorDomain":"anna1220"}
The apple has never existed...
Exactly! And they never will! Why - because we live in real universe, not in Utopia.
Mr. Albert - I suggest you study the world around yourself - just a little bit - and find examples of your "apples". There are none.
I would also suggest for you to change the religion - from Marxism to any other. Religions at least promise you eternal justice - though after you die.
{"commentId":10713437,"threadId":"725880","contentId":"3508347","authorDomain":"anna1220"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":10713466,"authorDomain":"anna1220"}
an end to Patriarchial class regimes.
This Universe will die before it would ever happens. Enjoy what you have while you can. And on this planet - United States of America is the best place to live right now.
{"commentId":10713466,"threadId":"725880","contentId":"3508347","authorDomain":"anna1220"}
- 3 votes
{"commentId":10713651,"authorDomain":"eric-albert"}
ANNA-NYC:
I love your optimism... your clearance of cynicism (sarcasm)...your inability to see where we are, what we can accomplish....instead embrace despotism, class tyranny. No wonder Nazi Germany, Zionist Israel, American Empire are the new norms for proto fascism.
{"commentId":10713651,"threadId":"725880","contentId":"3508347","authorDomain":"eric-albert"}
- 3 votes
{"commentId":10713804,"authorDomain":"sandiistheone"}
Eric,
I have just one question for you. Are you still in the US? If so, then why? You sound like you would be happier in another country since you think our gov't is filled with corrupt, contemptible people. If I thought my country was that corrupt, I would be seeking asylum elsewhere. And you've thought this for a long time??? You must be very unhappy. :-(
{"commentId":10713804,"threadId":"725880","contentId":"3508347","authorDomain":"sandiistheone"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":10713855,"authorDomain":"anna1220"}
your inability to see where we are, what we can accomplish....instead embrace despotism, class tyranny.
My ABILITY to see where we are, what we "accomplished" - take a look, f/e, at last century. Only after 5 thousands years of human civilization we've created regimes like Nazi Germany, Soviet Russia, Pol Pot in Cambodia and so on and so forth.
Great progress!!
And the only places that truly can claim ANY progress in making human life less miserable are those "accursed" USA and Western European countries.
And Eric - enough of your Marxist jargon. It's really laughable. "Class tyranny" - Ha!
{"commentId":10713855,"threadId":"725880","contentId":"3508347","authorDomain":"anna1220"}
- 3 votes
{"commentId":10715286,"authorDomain":"droveto"}
Yes, all involved here. Please do not analyze the system and think of ways to improve lives of your fellow human beings. Please continue to read news articles meant to scare you and look at advertisements meant to make you depressed over your appearance and inability to buy everything you desire. Please remain narrow minded and firmly believe that this most recent system for handling resources is the most fair one that could ever be created. Please understand that humans have reached their peak in terms of their morality and even though systems have changed over and over again throughout history, and most often for the better, that no longer will this be the case. You must not question anything so that everything stays exactly as it is, a corporate heaven where consumers purchase happiness on credit cards. Thank you for complying.
{"commentId":10715286,"threadId":"725880","contentId":"3508347","authorDomain":"droveto"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":10715418,"authorDomain":"anna1220"}
Please understand that humans have reached their peak in terms of their morality and even though systems have changed over and over again throughout history, and most often for the better, that no longer will this be the case.
What does THIS have to do with calling American system "proto-fascism" and tyranny?
Yes, it's imperfect - like any other human invention. But to call modern US and Western democracies: ..."despotism, class tyranny"...??
I would say - huge overstatement. Especially that there are plenty of examples of real despotism and tyranny, in Eric's favorite Eastern hemisphere, f/e.
{"commentId":10715418,"threadId":"725880","contentId":"3508347","authorDomain":"anna1220"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":10715562,"authorDomain":"droveto"}
Please do not analyze the direction of society. Please consider all views different than yours to be completely radical. Please do not consider that fascism could manifest itself through the illusion of free choice created by corporatism. It's extremely important that you don't consider the effects of less and less competition in the markets because doing so will make it harder for the corporations to charge whatever they want. It's important that you remain scared for your health so that regulations can be passed that will force people to purchase their products. If you are not scared, you will not accept being forced to help the insurance companies earn more revenue, so please, let the government protect you from all that is scary. Please get your swine flu shot too as it can now be transmitted over email and text messaging.
{"commentId":10715562,"threadId":"725880","contentId":"3508347","authorDomain":"droveto"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":10713237,"authorDomain":"kshark"}
I can bet my predictions will come true.
This is absolutely ridiculous.
If there was any damn sense, why not have the damn trials at Gitmo instead, instead of increasing problems in NY.
Idiots abound.
{"commentId":10713237,"threadId":"725880","contentId":"3508347","authorDomain":"kshark"}
- 3 votes
#7 - Mon Nov 16, 2009 9:02 PM EST{"commentId":10713806,"authorDomain":"honor-and-harmony"}
Did you complain about the 193 terror trials that the previous admin OK'd? Probably not.
{"commentId":10713806,"threadId":"725880","contentId":"3508347","authorDomain":"honor-and-harmony"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":10713867,"authorDomain":"wharrison55"}
{"commentId":10713889,"authorDomain":"kshark"}
Honor and Harmony
Did you complain about the 193 terror trials that the previous admin OK'd? Probably not.
And that has to do with my comment how?
{"commentId":10713889,"threadId":"725880","contentId":"3508347","authorDomain":"kshark"}
- 3 votes
{"commentId":10714016,"authorDomain":"malankuhn"}
Occam's Razor - the simplest explanation or strategy tends to be the best one.
{"commentId":10714016,"threadId":"725880","contentId":"3508347","authorDomain":"malankuhn"}
{"commentId":10714336,"authorDomain":"honor-and-harmony"}
well kshark you seem to be parroting the rightwings whining thats why. What changed? Oh that's right the repubs are no longer in charge so now everything has to be done at gitmo.
Give me a break.
{"commentId":10714336,"threadId":"725880","contentId":"3508347","authorDomain":"honor-and-harmony"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":10714364,"authorDomain":"honor-and-harmony"}
The crime was commited here so have the trial here. I have faith in our laws. If you righties are too scared go run and hide.
{"commentId":10714364,"threadId":"725880","contentId":"3508347","authorDomain":"honor-and-harmony"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":10715252,"authorDomain":"kshark"}
Honor and Harmony--
And once again to the obtuse nature of your mind
WHAT THE F- DOES MY COMMENT HAVE TO DO WITH your comment?????
And what the F— does this have to do with politics for me?? WHERE DID I BRING IN POLITICS??????
Take your head out of your bum. If that is the ONLY thing you know how to argue by inserting politics where NOT came up, that is one poor way to argue anything.
But if YOU to dredge up politics, where I made NO reference, it is actually the appeasing lefties that are the ones running scared. The right have the balls to stand up, as you all are putting your heads down in the sand and bums up instead.
You really do NOT f-ing get it one bit.
{"commentId":10715252,"threadId":"725880","contentId":"3508347","authorDomain":"kshark"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":10713395,"authorDomain":"eric-albert"}
Kshark:
Actually I agree with you....even though you are a conservative apologist for class power. It does not matter where these Kangaroo courts are prosecuted.....what matters is whether the RULE OF LAWS, even though they are already corrupted as class laws, double standards, follow through their own duplicitous standards.......the torture treaty, the Nuremberg principles, the international laws.....the Geneva conventions, our constitutional laws.....that clearly state that universal jurisdiction MUST APPLY TO ALL....whether in NEW YORK OR GITMO!!!
{"commentId":10713395,"threadId":"725880","contentId":"3508347","authorDomain":"eric-albert"}
- 1 vote
#8 - Mon Nov 16, 2009 9:09 PM EST{"commentId":10713570,"authorDomain":"sgsteitler"}
Sometimes preserving democracy involves risk. We may very well not get away without some bruising. War does that! However the repugs need to just face the facts, we just need to go ahead an DO THIS! I and others like me, will not have the constitution shredded at the whims of some conservative cowards-Grow a pair!
{"commentId":10713570,"threadId":"725880","contentId":"3508347","authorDomain":"sgsteitler"}
- 2 votes
#9 - Mon Nov 16, 2009 9:17 PM EST{"commentId":10713863,"authorDomain":"kshark"}
I and others like me, will not have the constitution shredded at the whims of some conservative cowards-Grow a pair!
They have already shredded the Constitution before any political party might have.
9/11 was just some bruising? OOOOOOOOOOOK then.
Fine you say the Conservatives need to grow pair, um they have, they recognize these things for what they are and are not afraid to stand up to them. I would say Liberals need to grow a brain and are bending over to take it up the bum.
I love being in the middle.
{"commentId":10713863,"threadId":"725880","contentId":"3508347","authorDomain":"kshark"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":10714065,"authorDomain":"sgsteitler"}
No I'm saying some lower level terrorism resulting from these trials would be a bit of a bruising in comparison to 9/11, but its a price we might need to be willing to pay to set an example of fairplay to the world. Simply put, the best way to lead in this world, is by a fine example.We look weaker when we cower
{"commentId":10714065,"threadId":"725880","contentId":"3508347","authorDomain":"sgsteitler"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":10715291,"authorDomain":"kshark"}
jbird--
How is this trial fair play?
You actually think showing any sort of fair play to the world will change the Islamic attitude towards the US? SERIOUSLY???
This is a trial for show, nothing more. It is centerpiece for a dinner table, it is decoration.
{"commentId":10715291,"threadId":"725880","contentId":"3508347","authorDomain":"kshark"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":10715421,"authorDomain":"droveto"}
Republican and Democrat supporters, please keep arguing about irrelevant matter. It's very important that you continue to argue about which party is better based on where a trial is going to be held instead of debating whether the information that comes from people that have had near death experiences forced upon them repeatedly is of value. If you start actually analyzing how both parties are playing against each other while both are working to strip away your constitutional rights, you might start to realize that the corporate interests control the media, and that's how they control the elections. If you realize this, you will become even more depressed than you already are as you will no longer be able to buy the things that give you happiness and help you get women.
{"commentId":10715421,"threadId":"725880","contentId":"3508347","authorDomain":"droveto"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":10716141,"authorDomain":"sandiistheone"}
Liberals need to grow a brain and are bending over to take it up the bum.
Sorta like making it a bum's rush. Sorry, couldn't help it. :-)
{"commentId":10716141,"threadId":"725880","contentId":"3508347","authorDomain":"sandiistheone"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":10720282,"authorDomain":"kshark"}
Dan Roveto--
Ok what?
{"commentId":10720282,"threadId":"725880","contentId":"3508347","authorDomain":"kshark"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":10727528,"authorDomain":"droveto"}
huh?
{"commentId":10727528,"threadId":"725880","contentId":"3508347","authorDomain":"droveto"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":10713830,"authorDomain":"honor-and-harmony"}
Don't worry righties I will protect you. Just hide under your beds like the weaklings you are. I will protect you.
{"commentId":10713830,"threadId":"725880","contentId":"3508347","authorDomain":"honor-and-harmony"}
- 2 votes
#10 - Mon Nov 16, 2009 9:31 PM EST{"commentId":10716668,"authorDomain":"seattle1961a"}
this guy is not a danger he will be watched and taken care but heres a good example put that guy in general population in any prison in the united states guarnteed he would be killed by other inmates quickly these people are not tough and there not geneious all they are is lackeys for some one that has a few more brain cells then them its amazing what the news organizations do to get the public worked up and heres a simple solution to that try them in court, no cameras reporters etc all there fame and glory goes away the media thing its really sicking they make fear out of everything if we had the mentality that we had in the early years of our countries development these would not be a problem as i said the media and the idiots that promote fear go figure?????????/
{"commentId":10716668,"threadId":"725880","contentId":"3508347","authorDomain":"seattle1961a"}
#11 - Tue Nov 17, 2009 12:20 AM EST{"commentId":10720515,"authorDomain":"kshark"}
Um you are kidding right?
For one thing KSM is not a lackey.
For another thing, it is not so much worrying about those on the inside as the ones on the outside fighting for his cause. This trial is not going to end anything for the cause.
Also as it is happening in the UK the prisons are turning into a breeding ground for Radical Islam. We do have prisoners in our own systems that convert while in prison.
So you are saying the media is promoting fear, are then you basically saying to that that what the media does report of what is happening is not happening? That is almost like saying 9/11 was made up by the media.
You actually think inmates would kill them? People in jail have anger, it is primarily towards the system, towards the Government. Given the right person they can use that anger to an advantage and turn into something else. You ever see how easy it is for people to be recruited into the terrorist organizations. We even have Americans that will go over and train and fight for their cause.
However, if they do not receive execution, the chances of them being in general population are next to nothing. They would be sent to Supermax in Colorado where they spend 22-23 hours a day in Solitary.
{"commentId":10720515,"threadId":"725880","contentId":"3508347","authorDomain":"kshark"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":10717095,"authorDomain":"proacai-max-1"}
I think that tis our systems weakness that we not gave punishment to 9/11 victim after 9 years.
{"commentId":10717095,"threadId":"725880","contentId":"3508347","authorDomain":"proacai-max-1"}
#12 - Tue Nov 17, 2009 12:59 AM EST{"commentId":10738477,"authorDomain":"sandiistheone"}
#11.1 You know, I read that entire article, and did not find one mention of Christians or the US. Was this your intent? Christian Taliban??????????????? And they want to form a gov't based on the Ten Commandments?? The New Testament is the one true Christians follow.
{"commentId":10738477,"threadId":"725880","contentId":"3508347","authorDomain":"sandiistheone"}
- 1 vote
#13 - Tue Nov 17, 2009 9:03 PM EST{"commentId":10742233,"authorDomain":"torabu"}
Read through that whole conversation with Kshark and you'll understand. The point was to debunk the notion that all Muslims are Islamic extremists like the Taliban and Al Qaeda, just as all Christians are not like those Christian extremists.
It may have been a bit off-tangent with the article, but I felt it was an important point to make in the face of such comments.
{"commentId":10742233,"threadId":"725880","contentId":"3508347","authorDomain":"torabu"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":10752487,"authorDomain":"kerwynw"}
To quote FDR, "The only thing we have to fear is fear itself." Let the trials begin.
{"commentId":10752487,"threadId":"725880","contentId":"3508347","authorDomain":"kerwynw"}
- 1 vote
#14 - Wed Nov 18, 2009 1:41 PM EST{"commentId":10777143,"authorDomain":"anna1220"}
When it comes to terrorists, you would think that an al Qaeda operative who targets an American mom sitting in her office or a child on a flight back home is many degrees worse than a Taliban soldier picked up after a firefight with U.S. Army troops.
Your instinct would be correct, because at the heart of terrorism is the monstrous idea that the former is as legitimate a target as the latter. Unfortunately, by dispatching Khalid Sheikh Mohammed and other al Qaeda leaders to federal criminal court for trial, U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder will be undermining this distinction. And the perverse message that decision will send to terrorists all over this dangerous world is this: If you kill civilians on American soil you will have greater protections than if you attack our military overseas.
"A fundamental purpose of rules such as the Geneva Conventions is to give those at war an incentive for more civilized behavior—and not targeting civilians is arguably the most sacred of these principles," says William Burck, a former federal prosecutor and Bush White House lawyer who dealt with national security issues. "It demolishes this principle to give Khalid Sheikh Mohammed even more legal protections than the Geneva Conventions provide a uniformed soldier fighting in a recognized war zone."
Holder’s al Qaeda Incentive Plan
By William McGurn
Wall Street Journal, November 17, 2009
{"commentId":10777143,"threadId":"725880","contentId":"3508347","authorDomain":"anna1220"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":10777189,"authorDomain":"anna1220"}
We don't often speak of incentives in war. That's a loss, because the whole idea of, say, Geneva rights is based on the idea of providing combatants with incentives to do things that help limit the bloodiness of battle. These include wearing a uniform, carrying arms openly, not targeting civilians, and so on.
Terrorists recognize none of these things. They are best understood as associations of people plotting and carrying out war crimes, whether that means sowing fear with direct and indiscriminate attacks on marketplaces, offices and airlines—or by engaging enemy troops without distinguishing uniforms, so that the surrounding civilians essentially become used as human shields. Terrorists reject both the laws of war and the laws of American civil society. To put it another way, they reject both the authority and the obligations their legal rights imply.
Holder’s al Qaeda Incentive Plan
By William McGurn
Wall Street Journal, November 17, 2009
{"commentId":10777189,"threadId":"725880","contentId":"3508347","authorDomain":"anna1220"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":10777265,"authorDomain":"anna1220"}
Andrew McCarthy has a unique perspective on the move to criminal trials. As an assistant U.S. attorney in 1993, he successfully prosecuted Omar Abdel Rahman (the "blind sheikh") for the first bombing of the World Trade Center. Even though the cases were somewhat different—that plot was conceived, plotted and carried out on U.S. soil—Mr. McCarthy says the experience persuaded him that federal trials are a bad way of handling terror.
"At first, I was of the mind that a criminal prosecution would uphold all our high-falutin' rhetoric about the constitution and majesty of the law," says Mr. McCarthy. "But when you get down to the nitty gritty of a trial, you see one huge problem: The criminal justice system imposes limits on the government and gives the defendant all sorts of access to information, because we'd rather have the government lose than unfairly convict a man. You can't take that position with an enemy who is at war with you and trying to bring that government down."
Holder’s al Qaeda Incentive Plan
By William McGurn
Wall Street Journal, November 17, 2009
{"commentId":10777265,"threadId":"725880","contentId":"3508347","authorDomain":"anna1220"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":10785094,"authorDomain":"kerwynw"}
Anna: Thanks for validating my argument. The Wall Street Journal and a former Assistant U.S. Attorney who prosecuted the 1993 World Trade Center Bombing? Anna we don't suspend the U.S. Constitution just because of some Wall Street Journal op-ed piece. Timothy McVeigh was tried in Federal Court in Denver Colorado he killed 168 people but there was no outcry for him to receive a military trial. He was sentenced to death and executed Anna: You are just doing your usual fear mongering this time courtesy of the Wall Street Journal.
{"commentId":10785094,"threadId":"725880","contentId":"3508347","authorDomain":"kerwynw"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":10790905,"authorDomain":"sandiistheone"}
The Gitmo prisoners need a military trial. They are enemy combatants. McVeigh was a US citizen and tried in Federal courts. He never declared war on the US, nor did he act with other foreign agents (unless he did act on orders of al Queda as has been suggested).
The Gitmo prisoners are not US citizens. They do not deserve American justice as other citizens would. What they did was an act of war. They attacked NYC and the Pentagon and would have carried even more acts of aggression toward the US in PA had the courageous people on that plane not intervened.
Anna is not fear mongering but telling the truth. I have no idea what you're trying to do.
{"commentId":10790905,"threadId":"725880","contentId":"3508347","authorDomain":"sandiistheone"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":10794998,"authorDomain":"anna1220"}
McVeigh was a US citizen and tried in Federal courts.
Unfortunately, Confessor is unable to see the difference.
Anna we don't suspend the U.S. Constitution just because of some Wall Street Journal op-ed piece.
Confessor - we don't apply US constitution to everybody just because of your uninformed opinion.
{"commentId":10794998,"threadId":"725880","contentId":"3508347","authorDomain":"anna1220"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":10801352,"authorDomain":"torabu"}
Unfortunately, Confessor is unable to see the difference.
But you didn't address the 1993 WTC bombings The Confessor brought up. Exact same scenario as 9/11, except it wasn't as effective. The conspirators then were tried in civilian court as criminals. Hmmmmm.
Talking about uninformed opinions.
{"commentId":10801352,"threadId":"725880","contentId":"3508347","authorDomain":"torabu"}
- 1 vote
#15 - Fri Nov 20, 2009 1:30 PM EST{"commentId":10804402,"authorDomain":"sandiistheone"}
The 1993 WTC bombings were the first attack against the Towers. This was the second and more virulent of the attacks. A message has to be sent that this will not be tolerated and certainly will not be tolerated with a slap on the hand. This time it should be a military tribunal and the death penalty. This will show the US is strong because the terrorists will continue to target us if they think we're weak. We cannot afford a trial in civilian courts. The last time they should have been tried as enemy combatants, as well. The problem was we had another Democrat in office, Bill Clinton, And we all know what happened on his watch.
{"commentId":10804402,"threadId":"725880","contentId":"3508347","authorDomain":"sandiistheone"}
- 1 vote
#16 - Fri Nov 20, 2009 3:40 PM EST{"commentId":10807889,"authorDomain":"torabu"}
The point is that there is precedent in how terrorist suspects -- whether US citizens or not -- are handled. The Bush administration may have muddied the waters regarding rule-of-law, but the executive branch is run by the Obama administration now.
This will show the US is strong because the terrorists will continue to target us if they think we're weak.
Empty rhetoric. The terrorists will plot regardless. Or are you implying that America was not the most powerful country in the world in both 1993 and 2001? Instead of trying to send a worthless impression, America should be working on preventative security measures; stopping them before they succeed sends a more powerful message than flexing muscles at men in cuffs after the fact.
We cannot afford a trial in civilian courts.
Why not? It happened in 1993 and the millennium attacks were still prevented. Just as the Clinton administration's justice department dropped the ball in 1993, the Bush administration's justice department did so in 2001.
But, for the sake of hypotheticals, just what, exactly, is a military tribunal going to do that a civilian trial can't to prevent future attacks?
The last time they should have been tried as enemy combatants, as well.
This is just blatant ignorance of terminology. They couldn't be tried as enemy combatants, because they weren't members of the armed forces of any country America was at war with. The US has been holding the current prisoners as unlawful combatants. It is made quite clear in the Geneva Conventions that unlawful combatants are civilians, not military personnel. Therefore, military tribunals are inappropriate. I should hate to think you have contempt for international law, so I'm willing to believe you're just not educated on the matter.
The problem was we had another Democrat in office, Bill Clinton, And we all know what happened on his watch.
Yes, after the civilian trials, his administration went on to stop another terrorist attack near the end of his second term. Or are you implying incompetence regarding the 1993 attacks? If so, not only would that not be the problem for why the terrorists were tried in civilian court, as it was after the fact, but anyone could just as easily point to the Republican, George W Bush and 2001. Ergo, a Democrat in office wasn't the problem either.
One wide swing, two misses.
{"commentId":10807889,"threadId":"725880","contentId":"3508347","authorDomain":"torabu"}
- 1 vote
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