Army general in Iraq issues pregnancy ban

Actions have consequences and in this case I agree with the General. Maybe now there will be less "i'm going to get pregnant so I can go back home" type of people.

Kat I agree with you when they join the military they do so to serve our country not to settle down and have a family they can do that after their service is done.

-Sam

This is illegal and immoral, whats next forced abortions? I can definitely tell that the liberals are in charge!!

Sounds more like a Conservative Family Value to me. Since the vast preponderence of soldiers serving in the theater of operations are single, I'd think the religious fanatics among the Republican Party would just love this idea.

Sam it's not about control over families. It's about people being deployed to do a job and they can't afford to keep having to send people away because they got pregnant. It's a deterrent for those that sign up, get deployed then decide they don't like what their doing so they say screw it if i'm pregnant then they can't keep me here. They are there to do a job, not procreate.

This is a "volunteer" army. Putting in too many restrictions in will give cause for less "sign ups". Then what, re-institute the draft? I appreciate what the general is trying to accomplish, but can't we plug in someone from off the "bench"? Isn't someone else trained and ready to go? If someone is doing this to get out, maybe they shouldn't be in the front lines in the first place.

Freedom Writer-801740

Kat I agree with you when they join the military they do so to serve our country not to settle down and have a family they can do that after their service is done.

In that case, why do the services permit people to marry in the first place? It may well be that if the military wants you to have a spouse, they should issue one upon enlistment but since marriage is permitted, what exactly is wrong with a service member pursuing both a career and a family?

-Sam

.... it wont be long before forced abortions are the norm.

Federal law prohibits abortions in any military medical facility overseas. There are extremely severe restrictions on the procedure Stateside as well.

Was a time the Commandant of the Marine Corps tried to ban marriage...didn't work for a variety of good reasons. (See http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1P2-4184434.html ) When you have young men and women together pregnancies are going to happen. Other services have experienced similar degradations in manning due to pregnancies, but have been able to replace the individuals involved to maintain combat readiness and effectiveness. I seriously doubt this is a legal order, especially with married couples, hopefully it will be fully vetted in court, but the answer is to plus up the unit manning, based on projected pregnancy levels, to cover any losses. Can be tricky given combat specialties, but this is the price you pay to man a volunteer force.

Edward Albee would be proud.

What's this guy going to do if someone is raped? Idiot.

Brad I hear a soldier who was a marine once say if the marines had wanted me to have a wife they would have issued me one. And while you are in service being married and in relationships like that especially during a time when there is so much conflict can cause errors in judgement.

-Sam wrote "This is illegal and immoral, whats next forced abortions? I can definitely tell that the liberals are in charge!!"
While liberal feminists are indeed about abortion-on-demand at any time, even the dawn of pregnancy, the army's actions are not illegal and immoral. Recall that they give orders to kill.

People dont seem to realize that this has been general order #1 in Iraq since 2003, there has just been 0 enforcement. It will never stand up because you cannot restrict someones right to procreate, period. This will certainly deter some folks from just getting knocked up, but if a servicemember decided to fight it I doubt it would stand up.

freedom, Are you suggesting we are in trouble then? Do you realize how many, in our front lines, are men and women married with children or those in relationships? This is no longer your army full of young, single males between the ages of 18-21 (like in past wars). Our military has entered a new era. No need to court martial or jail anyone for this. Just move them out, assign them to another duty and replace them with another qualified personnel. Is that impossible?

Sam

nice try - you must be dizzy from the spin you tried to put on this one........

No real difference from soldiers shooting (or injuring) themselves to get a ride home.

There really is no reason someone 'needs to' or 'accidentally' gets pregnant in a war zone. A little discipline please. That is the military rule, discipline. After all, you're not being paid to be in a warzone to just 'screw around'!

As a military member I totally agree with this order. Good job general now back up your words. Most people do not understand the strain of everyone else when someone you trust to have your back when the S*&^ hits the fan decides to get knocked up just so they can leave you. That is what the women are doing to the other military members and they normally get away scott free, BS. By punishing the guy also this goes along it takes two to tango you can't punish one without the other. Alot of people in here are talking about "women's freedom" or this is two harsh. Screw that. You ask a military member that has pulled port and stbd watches bc some woman doesn't want to go on deployment so she gets knocked up just so she doesn't get deployed. Now she is put into a desk job counting sheets of paper or some other along those lines for 2 years (9 months plus also 1yr afterwards for baby time). Missing another deployment and totally forgetting most useful thing about their real job. Also they took a non-deploying billet form someone who did complete their tour so now that military member has to cover for someone her spot.

So what I am saying is that someone who gets knocked up while deployed not only effects themselves but also all the military members in their unit and their families. I believe that once NJP or court-marshel, 2 times medical discharge before the birth so they can pay for it not the military bc if you do it twice you are now completely unreliable and should be given the boot asap.

Sam

Anyone who becomes pregnant or impregnates another servicemember, including married couples

So now the military has direct control over families and you agree with it?

=======================

Sam, if you were in as you claim you know the military does have direct control over you. Please stop acting dumb. The family the article talks about are married, military (where both are on active duty). You enlist and you give up many of the things that civilians have.

Otherwise, I think this is hilarious. Don't want any pregnacies, keep women out of the combat zones. The Navy didn't learn the lesson in the first Gulf War.

Sam, if you were in as you claim you know the military does have direct control over you. Please stop acting dumb. The family the article talks about are married, military (where both are on active duty). You enlist and you give up many of the things that civilians have.

Yes when you enlist, you give up many rights but it doesnt mean our military heroes are supposed too give up all human rights and when I signed the contract I didnt see anything about giving up my parenting rights.. Im sure alot of companies could make the same case in the private sector doesnt make it legal or right, if the army is so undermanned maybe the power tripping brass shouldnt be treating soldiers so badly..

Im sure this will also bring on more rape accusations from pregnant women who are afraid of being thrown in the brig and losing 40% of their pay for 45 or more days.. Also what about our career soldiers? What about our soldiers who are on stop-loss?? There are so many unforeseen complications due too this ill-thought out and stupid command..

Sam: That is correct. The military owns your ass 24/7 and can dictate what you can and cannot do. Like it or not, women in the military wanted equality. Now they have it. But with equality comes responsibility. A male soldier who is expecting, does not have to leave his unit for a pregnancy or a birth. Nay, it is unlikely that he could. Therefore, it seems reasonible to expect that female soldiers, serving right along side of their male counterparts, would be expected to adhere to the same credo. That females get pregnant is of no consequence here. If one cannot trust birth control pills and condoms, then abstinance seems the next logical step. Tough but this is an all volunteer military, so nobody has to be there.

Sam

why don't you cut the spinning of married couples - you know this has to deal with troops in combat areas - married couples don't serve together. look at the big picture - it is about male and female troops getting together - which has regualtions already in place against this.......

and when you signed up you did give up your rights to having sex with females in combat zones...

Sam

why don't you cut the spinning of married couples - you know this has to deal with troops in combat areas - married couples don't serve together. look at the big picture - it is about male and female troops getting together - which has regualtions already in place against this.......

and when you signed up you did give up your rights to having sex with females in combat zones...

Married couples arent allowed in the same command but they are often stationed on the same base and this command will cause moral problems with the troops later on..

When I enlisted -back in the 60's- and was to be sent to OCS (Officer Candidate School) I was given a preg test before going. They did not want to waist time or money on someone who could not fulling their comment. I agreed then that if women wanted to be in the service, they should commit themselves to it and not become preg.

This is not about families. It is about men and women, overseas, in a combat zone where every member counts. And no, they can't be replace in a short period of time.

So Bring on the birth controls or control thy self. Can't do that, then read up on masturbation. I agree with the General. It is about time that this issue was addressed head on. (no pun attended) And I like the fact that the woman is not the only one involved with the pregnancy. It take two and the men need to own up to self control.

Edward Albee would be proud.

What's this guy going to do if someone is raped? Idiot.

This has nothing to do with a person getting raped and getting pregnant as result. Its targeting females who purposely gets pregnant to get out of a warzone or deployment.

I totally agree with the general on this one. These women volunteered to join the miltary and sign a 4-5 yr contract. After spending months to get trained at their speciality at tax payers expense then tried to pull a stunt to get pregnant to exploit the loophole which gets them out of deployment or a combat zone. Lets just say she was a medic. Replacing a medic is alot harder than a soldier. Also the logistics of flying another soldier to a combat zone to replace the lost soldier take time. The whole unit will be affected by the lost soldier. Imagine if someone told you that you will be going to another country. There is no way to put your finances in order, cancel your lease, set up a power of attorney/will, put everything in storage, pack everything up, get extra military equipment issued, etc within a few days. Its impossible. Thats why military deployment workups takes months. Not few days.

When I was deployed, everytime someone was lost to do injury or death, we didn't get any replacements. Everyone had to take the extra workload of that lost individual. We get less sleep from doing more watch duties or patrols, safety in numbers drop due to one less person to 'look out", stress and bitterness increases because that individual got out of an obligation due to a loophole. Luckly I was with a marine unit that didn't have females. Anyways, being in a combat zone, there is no free time. You have to be alert 24/7. Yes its not fair but thats part of the job.

If it was me, I would have them dishonorablely discharge them. Why go to through the entire enlistment without deploying. Weasel out of every deployment by getting pregnant or field exercises then get full benefits for doing nothing when they get out? Like $50,000 dollar GI benefits for school, VA benefits for home loans. etc.

It's all about mission readiness. Pregnancy interferes with it. I knew of a female who was pregnant for both OIF 05-06 and OIF 08-09 with a different "donor" each time. Her pregnancies were without a doubt intentional and between her and a couple of other pregnancies of "convenience" forced some questionable choices on who did deploy. Luckily we were able to get those soldiers out of the combat zone with no harm done but if some $h*t had gone down like in '06 it could have been a real bad scene. Hey it's great if you're lucky enough to have a conjugal living arrangement down range but you better put a helmet on that soldier because we don't have a man or woman to spare!!

How is that? Being pregnant is not dishonorable but it means you can't work in a war zone. It's perfectly lawful in order for a soldier to perform their duties. This is war, it is not pretty and full of puppy dogs and flowers. We can't afford to move people around and it's not fair to other soldiers (or possibly very unsafe) for them to be shorthanded. I say it's about damned time. I also think that there should be a limit on the number of dependents covered. I for one as an Army wife see these women in the commissary toting five kids behind them because we the taxpayer are paying for all of them, and if her/her husband's bill is not covered, then they can get welfare and we hear all about "oh the poor soldier and his wife on food stamps!". It's ridiculous. The military for too long has been used as a social crutch. I for one am glad for this ruling and I think it comes 8 years late.

This is not immoral,you commit yourself to the service and you should be ready to go any time night and day when you have to go for a battle plan or any other service so think about this before you sighn up,and start your family after you get out of the service.I do 100% agre with this order. Old WWII vet

"what, re-institute the draft?"

Hell yea!!! Everyone serves After all freedom is not free and everyone serves regardless of who they are!! NO deferments!!!

"start your family after you get out of the service.I do 100% agre with this order. Old WWII vet"

Well so much fo rmilitary career military minded personel

Excuse me Sam, the liberals in charge of the military? That would be your guys, mine usually join the peace corp. Please tel me how you can serve any thing with a baby on your hip. Even most young marrieds try to wait untill they have the basics out of the way. At least if they are smart enough to know that unplanned babies tend to kind of mess up getting on their feet. But how do they plan on enforcing this with long term married couples that plan on making the military a long term carrier? Sonhds badly planned out.

Had -enough. Yes, I hear there,s a lot of rape of young wemon going on in the military. To some men, a weapon is a weapon, even against one of their own.

Sam, you dont have a clue. Just keep drinkin the Glenrushpalin Kool-Aid.

I heard female service members get pregnant in war zones simply from osmosis. Does seem kind of extreme to court martial and award dishonorables. Hate to say this and I know it sounds really bad but consider KBR and Filipino kitchen workers. Male service members: Don't schtoink the female soldiers. You give up a lot of rights when you join the service. Female soldiers know this and they don't get pregnant for love and family. They do it to get out of serving in combat zones. They don't care about you and when they get the boot with your dismount......you end up paying a bunch of money, don't get to see your kid and the military has you by the short hairs to enforce it. Now imagine she gets the boot with a DH discharge and can't get a job......can you say money sponge?

G.H., Agreed, it is a good idea. These news articles never get into the why part.

-Sam You're obviously not smart enough to understand the purpose of this issue. If you're stationed in a combat zone, especially in this incredibly dangerous situation, you're a moron for getting pregnant. If you can't practice the simplest forms of birth control to avoid this situation, you need to go. The military doesn't need the extra waste of money to keep re-assigning people because they can't follow commands. Too many women and couples already use pregnancy as an easy "out" when they're in the military. Just the simple fact that you don't understand the reasoning for this makes me, and I'm sure many others, very happy that you're no longer in armed forces.

I wonder how the religious wing-nuts will deal with this. One one hand they love war and killing, but on the other hand this is a direct contravention of the Biblical injunction to "go forth and multiply."

And a field commander who thinks that he can just command young men and women to calm their hormones and defy human nature has so little understanding of the human condition that he is unlikely to be an effective commander in an Iraq/Afghanistan theater where understanding of complex human interactions is critical.

Chris, all the killer talk is mainly bravado and simply TALK. Is hard to describe military/warrior culture. Is one of those things you have to see and experience for yourself in order to understand. Commanders are responsible for the readiness of troops. They get critiqued the same way civilians do in regards to performance and responsibilities. Imagine that you have a mission to perform in a combat zone and a female soldier that is fluent in the native language. She gets pregnant and sent stateside and the commander is left without a replacement. Hard to imagine that something so simple can cost American lives......but it does. The purpose of orders is simply to get everyone on the same page or.....Uniform.

A ban on sex was one of the general orders we were briefed on when I was in Iraq in 2005. So the comment that this is a liberal concept is totally wrong. Enforcement was varied, One company commander would not even let a husband and wife be alone in the same public room. Others could care less. Condoms were on sale in the PX and were in baskets free for the taking in the Red Cross waiting room. I never heard of anyone being courtmartialed for disobeying this order perhaps because widespread enforcement would decimate the units. Pregnancy does provide problems for the force, and it also irritates the hell out of dedicated female soldiers who see their pregnant comrades as providing fuel for those who do not want women in combat. However, issuing an order which is going to cause more problems if it is enforced is not the answer.

Women fought for the right to serve in combat roles (when there was no combat) and such because of the what were otherwise limitations on career upward mobility. So, they got the jobs, they got the promotions and pay, and the photo ops, and whatever. I tell you what...if a military manager could choose between a male and a female to fill a critical job, He'd more than likely choose the male because the odds of losing him to a medical condition (which pregnancy technically is) are far less...he's more reliable in that regard. I'm not talking about stereotypes. I'm talking about actual physical loss of manpower. But the fact of the matter is that we don't have that choice. Just the opposite. We get a body that's certified as qualified in all respects to do a job. We get a predetermined number of males and females without any adjustment for preganancy contingency. Females didn't get added on top of the numbers of servicemembers determined necessary for mission execution. They were absorbed into those numbers. We get a body to fill a hole in a very slow system that doesn't respond fast enough to sudden unexpected losses such as pregnancies. It not only affects the manpower, but morale among the servicemembers who have to pick up the slack and watch their tongues suffers a great deal. In a peace time setting stateside it's difficult enough to deal with...you'd rather they just go home and watch TV, because of half day policies and inability to do many things that a fully fit servicemember in their job is supposed to do. I imagine pregnancies are extremely difficult to stomach in a combat environment.

I'm happy to see the General pushing the issue this way. This action was as much a signal up the chain of command as it was down the chain of command. I can only imagine the problems he must have been dealing with to step out this far on such a touchy subject. I see it everyday. I challenge anyone to walk around any military base and count the number of pregnant vs not pregnant female servicemembers and determine the ratio. True family planning for male vs. female servicemembers are not the same. Deal with it. This was why female servicemembers were not allowed in combat zones and allowed on few ships from the start.

Chris - you may be correct in that the commander can't control each individual's hormones. But he has warned them of the consequences. He didn't tell them they couldn't act out their desires. He told them there will be consequences to the undesired results. He has the authority to enforce the order and can do so if he chooses.

The real punishment is to give the disobeyers a "less than honorable" discharge immediately. The end result is that these individuals would be out of a job and not having the military financially responsible for the pre-natal and neo-natal expenses. Trying to find a job in this environment especially while pregnant might be a bit of a task. The same for the guys - have them try to find a job to support a pregnant wife in this employment environment could also be a real test.

Remember the woman who decided she wanted to go AWOL rather than show up for her deployment? The military is tired of coddling to those that think the rules don't apply to them or are looking for ways to skirt the rules. Members of the military academies are subject to those same rules - if you "father a child" or become pregnant - you are gone. This despite the fact that it doesn't directly impact the remaining students - just not a distraction to the cadet.

The military is deployed for a particular purpose which does not include satisfying their lust nor increasing the world population. If it is a "right" to have sex - exercise that "right" as a civilian where you truly have more rights.

Geezus Ceerist!!! I'm surprised they didn't implement this policy at the outset of combat. The military is NOT a democracy. It can't be. It directly implements the safety and security poilicies of the American public. It defends the nation. When someone doesn't do their job in the military, other people die. Its not about morals or values or any of that horse$hit. Its about doing a critical job and keeping your "co-workers" alive. I can't believe that so many people have their heads so far up their a$$es as to even feel offended by the general's actions. No wonder this country is so effed-up. A good portion of the public lost touch with reality a looooong time ago. What a bunch of spoon-fed whaaaany a$$es.

These are all great points. How about the money and time it takes to train a soldier and then lose them due to a pregnancy loop hole. All this at the tax payers expense.

Like this is going to help boost morale...

This wasn't meant to boost morale. Though it very well can in the sense that the rest of the organization will not have to pick up the slack because of the missing member. Many people have suggested that the military fills the void. Unless it is a critical position it will remain understaffed until the unit is replaced by another unit. They don't typically replace organizations piecemeal.

Skeptic,

Your a moron. If a service member gets raped in Iraq by another service member they go to their commanding officer get a rape test and the person that raped them goes to Levenworth (military prison) if a military member is raped by a Iraqi civilian (not likely) then they still go to their commanding officer, either way they wont get punished, even if they get pregnant because they were raped. Things are done differently in the military, military members go by the UMCJ (uniform military code of justice) not the crap justice system that civilians go by, if you dont like it DONT SIGN UP!

True, this is a volunteer Army, but people are going to have sex and you can't force them not to. If there are people having sex, accidents happen and there will be pregnancies. You can't make that illegal. It's not about liberals or conservatives being in charge, it is about the leadership in the military abusing their power. Over the past six years of my service as an officer in the Army I have seen our leadership become more and more incapable of commanding their units. The Army currently has much bigger issues than pregnancies and we need to focuss on those issues. Someone asked what would happen if a soldier was raped and got pregnant. That unfortunately is an ongoing issue. Female soldiers are often raped in Iraq and our leadership is not doing nearly enough to protect this from happening. In my opinion this is a much larger issue than pregnancies. Maybe if the deployments were shorter than 12-15 months this would be a more realistic rule. I don't know how many people have tried it, but it's not easy going a year or more without sex, especially if you're married and stationed at the same place as your husband or wife. I just wish the Army would start focussing on the issues that matter. They may have to fill a vacancy when a pregnant soldier leaves combat, but it's rules like these that will lower morale and force more soldiers to leave the Army and create even more vacancies to fill.

What are the long-term repercussions on promotions, assignment locations, etc. to a longer-term career military female who has made a claim of rape, proven or not, in her records?

There is nothing new here, it has always been disobedience to a direct order for a soldier to have sex, when ordered not to. This general just said he's gonna do something about it, as where it was not enforced before.

They shouldn't be in the war zone. Feminists see the military as a remnant of the mythical Patriarchical monolith that must be toppled.

Nevermind, im on the wrong article.

Puck 2u; Can't discrim. against sexs anymore. What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

In the late 60s when women came into the Navy they were resented because they took up shore billets for sailors who had returned from a cruise forcing them to spend more time a sea. So, they allowed them to ship out and with 60s morals and raging hormones you can guess at the results.

This is just another example of PC. Except for jobs like Nursing and some non-combat support jobs they should never have allowed them into the services

Oh please. They is no zone anymore. Vietnam put an end to that. If there were a zone it would be the country.

Why not?

Men have been carrying the "flag" far too long. Let women do their share, and not just in "bed" but on the front-line too. They get killed? So what? I am a firm beliver that if the Titanic "happened" today, I for one would NOT give up my place for a totally unknown-female. And I would NOT be the only male in the boat. Must take care of Number-One. They (women) have been screeming to be "equal", let them be.

Everyone keeps discussing the female who gets pregnant. The ORDER is also against the male who impregnated the female. And being sent to prison? If it were a rape, okay. If it is consensual with husband & wife, then it is nobody's business. The volunteer army will soon be history. I feel like we live in China where the couples are allowed to have only 1 child! What's happened to the USA?

And most of the women who are in a war zone do an exceptional job. There are so many men in the military who fu*k up constantly and you people have no clue about it.

Don't take a side on this Laura, there are just as many f*ck ups on both sides. The orders were given, get caught, pay piper. Personally, Im glad to see something happen about this problem. There are more important problems than this though, is an understatement. In my experience, females have always gotten over, there are a few that can carry their own weight though, but..........most cant. That is something that is probably not an incapability of females, but more of a trump card that higher ranking males facilitate. Nice smile, nice butt, hmmm....you dont have to work, come over here, I'll take care of you. Now gime some of that!~I have female friends that strait up tell me -being a female in the military is better than you could imagine.lol

Cause we like to pull the trigger.

It's the ultimate fruitation of the games we play as little boys.

Maybe Because they believe that they are servicing the greater good and protecting people like yourself and their freedoms. Maybe they believe that the only true evil is for good men to do nothing so they set-up and serve. Maybe they want to make a better life for themselves and there familys. Maybe they believe they are blessed to be in america with its freedoms and have decided that they should go and try to hopefully be able to provide that freedom to someone else in a different country. or just maybe they want to go somewhere where they don't have to listen to whinnie people talk about all there freedoms that they have but will do nothing but grip about the people who protect them. Why don't you think before you type something as stupid as "why are men even in warzones."

Jane Austin; Someones gotta fight.

Doesn't this tread on an individual's (or couple's) religious beliefs? (married couples serving in the same unit)

how?? I have never read or heard of in any religion where you have to have sex, wait i did but cults don't count.

Have you heard of something - many things- called birth controls. Some can be inserted in the female to prevent pregnancy and are very effective. An then there is the pill and shots and etc. And I must mention the 'condone.

Don't believe in birth control. Then don't join the military or stop doing you-know-what.

The only birth control that is really 100% is abstinence. I'm not sure, but will the military pay for your vasectomy or getting your tubes tied? If not, they should after this order. When I was in the Navy, it was an order that men and women couldn't fraternize on the ship. If you even got caught having sex you would be sent to Captain's Mast (article 15 of the UCMJ), lose half your pay for two months, and have 45 days restriction and 45 days extra duty. This is really nothing new. But we were only deployed for 6 months at a time. Lots of these soldier's are doing extended tours.

And then there is the coat=hanger. :-)

Aliward, even if they don't serve together they will eventually go home for leaves, be it on or off the base. But since so many are conseratives, I'm all for limiting their reproduction.

~my thoughts were about the Pope and Catholicism....."Natural Family Planning - Periodic abstinence and the natural infertility caused by breastfeeding are the only methods deemed moral for avoiding pregnancy. " We all know the reliability of such methods. I would guess that a couple could claim that, for religious reasons, they should not be deployed to a war zone.

45 days restriction

Being on a ship aren't you already restricted? I understand the extra duty but restrictions give you a break. I agree with the court martial too.

Restriction keeps you from going on liberty in foreign ports. You will not be able to leave the ship when you port in foreign nations.

Just goes to show you that the military is always years ahead of the civilian population in terms of medical/psychiatric and social engineering.

Years ahead? Making pregnancy against the law is years ahead of civilian population.

And don't kid yourself, they will definitely know who the mother is but I doubt they will ever find the father.

Frank Castle wrote "Then they let women go into combat and I was skeptical. "
This anti-pregnancy policy is a good way to purge the military of those unfit for combat.

FrankCastle; This is bs. Before long the military will have control overall of us.

Women have always been suitable for the military, just not in combat .

Mo291261 - they said the same thing about women police officers and fireman and teachers and accountants and on and on. There are many good, intelligent women in the military who are there because they believe in wanting to give all the freedoms they have to their children and all the children of this country. And they will give their lives for the better good.

There are no lines of 'combat' and non-combat. We are all in this together.

The subject of the article in 'SEX causing PREGNANCY. Can't stop the sex but we can stop most of the pregnancies through birth control or self-control.

I don't have a problem with women in the military. But how come we NEVER see a woman hauling heavy rucksacks while toting weapons on the news clips?

To those that think it is illegal to prohibit a woman and man from procreating - imagine the horror of the public watching a clip of an eight month pregnant woman with all the gear being "forced" to perform combat operations. Of course the public is unaware of the fact that she "chose" to drop her panties in a combat zone and congress says she has equal rights.

Not over it,

I don't know about that. Every men and woman in the military has their DNA on file. It's done in bootcamp and stored in a lab. Easily accessible.

We were simply told ' No sex. Period. Get caught and you loose a stripe and clean @!$%#ters for a month.' The entire 1st MEF had not ONE reported case of STD or woman sent home for pregnancy. That's almost 30,000 people ..and not ONE instance.

Ya that is true but then again your not suppose to be having sex in the first place unless you are married in the military in a deployed war zone. The truth of the matter is that it is a problem that has been on the rise ever since we entered the Afghan and Iraq war. It was bound to happened that there would be some form of punishment to act as a way to deter people from having sex, which again is already banned unless your married.

Although with his new rule it seems to be changing for married couples in the same unit.

Charlie,

This two star does have better things to do, unfortunately pregnancy while deployed is a real problem in that you lose trained Soldier's immediately upon confirming they are pregnant and have to bring in replacements. Ive met MG Cucolo, and know him a little bit by reputation. If he has instituted this as a policy it is because there is a problem that needs to be solved. I knew a Captain in an aviation brigade that was a company commander, and had been in command for 18 months (more than enough to be branch qualified). Her Colonel, the Brigade Commander, wanted to move her out of command into a staff job. She straight up told him that if he did that she would get pregnant and go home. The Col. moved her out of command and a month later she was stateside knocked up. The full bird tried to have the Captain punished, but JAG said it was a no go. And this is a CO pulling crap like that. I know for a fact it happens in the enlisted ranks as well, women using the threat of pregnancy like a weapon. Its not by any means the norm, but it is a problem that bears addressing.

cav officer, OIF V

There are so few of our soldiers who 'get pregnant so I can go home'

Ya got any stats to back up that claim?

You have not been to PSD or admin office lately have you?? Go there and see how many "just off deployment early" knocked you women you see. Its usually one paper pushing rating with 10-15 women of different MOS or ratings that have really no idea how to push paper. Then you wonder why you have some many problems with pay, service records and travel claims.

You have not been to PSD or admin office lately have you?? Go there and see how many "just off deployment early" knocked you women you see. Its usually one paper pushing rating with 10-15 women of different MOS or ratings that have really no idea how to push paper. Then you wonder why you have some many problems with pay, service records and travel claims.

Yes it does happen and they shouldnt be offered another term of enlistment but they often are and then the brass wonders why the issue is getting worse..

Charlie; I agree. It does pose a problem with in the company, We are all ready short on military.

made it an order because its became a problem. we just dont hear about it.

1

In the misery of war, the quandry of knowing who is the enemy, the ungodly heat, etc. One may seek the
momentary relief, perchance the last bliss of their existance, for who knows who dies or is mangled by
a IED tomorrow!!! Now a man cannot even lay with his wife??? Jail time???

I guess it goes hand in hand with the forced health care back home. Millions face loss of homes, loss
of jobs, breakup of families resulting.... But lets force insurance to come before food, clothing, somewhere to sleep & bathe...... Or go to JAIL(and a fine)....... I thought DEBTORS PRISONS had been
abolished???

Wonder where the General throws his STONES ???

There are so few of our soldiers who 'get pregnant so I can go home'

It must've been more than just "so few", serious enough that amount of pregnant soldiers leaving the combat zone was affecting the units involved.

Obviously you are not in the military or follow their news.

If you have never been in the military or lived on a military post, then you are very naive and uneducated about the military life.

It is not just the women's problem even though they are the ones to get pregent. Who got then that way and what birth control did that man use. Who kept pushing for the encounter.

Oh the stories I could tell about the men in the military not even 24 hours from last seeing their wives. The problem in not pregnancy for that is the results of the first problem - SEX. Oh, heaven forbid to ask people to control themselves. Any one for Salt Peter?

Why didn't Tiger Woods think of Salt Peter?

i wonder how many people here have no idea what you two are talking about? If you don't know what they are talking about ask anyone who has been to boot camp we all know.

As if this two star clown doesn't have enough to do. Court martials for pregnancy. There are so few of our soldiers who 'get pregnant so I can go home', that this guy is using a sledge hammer to pound a nail. Again I say, good grief.

It doesn't matter how many there are now; he's preventing future occurrences. Go read the article again and go slower this time. It also applies to the men involved, in case you missed it. It doesn't matter if it's a man or a woman: both parties get busted for it. And I'm not sure what your MOS was but you don't seem to have a grasp on just how difficult a soldier's job can be when someone's not there to pick up the slack. In a war zone, it's an even greater burden and the general's trying to minimize the trouble his soldiers will face, all through a lawful and enforceable order.

Former Infantry Officer in VietNam.

Once a REMF, always a REMF.

crone-1458684

, no more pictures of fat pregnant sluts with cigarettes hanging out of their mouths standing over a pyramid of naked prisoners?

Whatever shall we do for military porn?

That might be the funniest most brutally honest thing I have ever heard. Needed to laugh.....thank you very much for that.

mickeymouse-1446349

made it an order because its became a problem. we just dont hear about it.

Exactly, my nephew was telling me about the "red light district" in his camp in Iraq, a buddy of mine that just retired from the navy said some of the the female sailors always had lots of spending money too.

Matt; Excellent idea. But this could be the beginng where the gov. could be takeing over our lives. Telling us how to conduct our lives.

Please tell me how its going to" be the beginning where the gov. could be taking over our lives"? If you understand the military, then you will understand that the government IS the boss. Government owns the military 24/7 until that contract is over. And the president is the big enchalada. They have to do everything the president says.

Its like if your boss at your job tells you that you are not allowed to surf the internet and shop during working hrs. Or have sex on companies time. Same concept except that the effects of losing a soldier in a combat zone due to pregnancy can be harmful to the rest of the unit.

had-enough you are sooooooo right. Many of the respondents to this article have never been in the military or understand how it works.

cw,

Your a moron. You obviously know nothing about the military or being in a war zone. Why don't watch Saving Private Ryan tonight and maybe you'll see that a WAR ZONE isn't the best place to get knocked up. We should wait until the child is actually born before we expose them to bombs and bullets. Please do us all a favor and DON'T procreate.

windjammr; That's werd man.

Just because a woman is overseas doesn't mean she is combat, just because she is in the military doesn't mean she is in combat. She could be medical, supply, or another in another career field that doesn't require being in combat.

So women soldiers have the right to become pregnant in a war zone? Are you kidding me? Actually in the contract or rules you are barred from even having sex in a deployed war zone unless it is your spouse. Besides most women it seems in this country are delaying getting pregnant until their late 30's anyways.

Yes unfortunately according to our own laws women are not allowed combat roles, which should be reversed.

Although that seems to have changed for married couples in the same unit.

Jeffreey, the order includes married couples in the same unit.

CommonSenseOR wrote "Women in the military are in their prime childbearing years! They have every right to become mothers."
They still have the right to be mothers. It's just that they will be fired from the job for a particular voluntary disability that has been banned.

CommonSenseOR; Sad to say, but this time the General is right.

they dont have the right to become pregnant in combat zone after they have been ordered not to. enlist yourself and see if you can break orders from a general.

CommonSenseOR - NO-- a woman does not have the right to become pregnant. Every military person must not do anything that will cause them to be incapable of performing their job. Even getting severally sun burned is a no-no. You obviously have never been in the military.

Women in the military are in their prime childbearing years! They have every right to become mothers.

Once they can do so without violating any orders to the contrary, like this one.

The military accepted them as potential mothers when they enlisted.

No, they accepted the military as their chosen career when they enlisted. You've never served, so you have no idea what you're talking about, so here's your education. You enlist, you obey all your orders, like 'em or not. That includes this one, which is in place to assure the safety and continued function of the units under the general's command. You sign on voluntarily knowing that you become "property"--you can't even get tattoos legally--so your argument fails. As it does elsewhere, too. Watch.

There is nothing in an enlistment contract barring people from reproducing nor is it Constitutional to prohibit reproduction while in uniform.

Nor is it Constitutional to mandate reproductive rights in uniform. The military does not operate under the Constitution. There's a thing called the Uniform Code of Military Justice. This is the military's Constitution. It holds sway over those in uniform, not the Bill of Rights. That said, any orders issued that dictate common-sense policies to ensure unit readiness and cohesiveness (such as "thou shalt not become pregnant or get someone pregnant") are legal under the UCMJ, so you once again fail.

This general is out of line and should be relieved of command.

Did you pick that up from watching old war movies? If anyone should be relieved of anything, you should be deprived of your internet privileges for being utterly and irredeemably ignorant.

Also, the military should not have women in combat in the first place. If they obeyed federal law then women would be stateside and the military wouldn't have this "problem". Nor would they have the rapes that occur in wartime which could lead to unplanned pregnancies. Separate the men from women and take women out of combat as federal law requires.

The depths of your stupidity are impressively revolting. Federal laws--laws enacted by the government, in case you missed it--have directly led to women being placed in more and more dangerous circumstances in direct opposition to military policy. The military has long been averse to putting women in combat roles, but thanks to political correctness and the driving need to prove that women are equal in all things, chivalry and courtesy have lost out and now women are getting put in harm's way, too.

Well, so much for your arguments. Come back later after you've learned a little more and try again.

Agreed, Pissed off. I wanted to join the military and I am a woman. Pregnancy and sex are the last things on my mind for that kind of job. The government is your boss. Don't follow the rules, you get fired. Simple as that.

You want to get pregnant and start a family, either don't join the military OR wait until your service time is over. Life is not that difficult.

Also, it is easy to abuse, being pregnant in the military. Think about it: Woman finds out she is being deployed to Iraq, Kuwait, etc.. She don't want to go. She gets pregnant, not only doesn't she have to go, but she gets benefits from the government. My friend was in the army a few years ago and told me this crap. Not all pregnant women plan to take advantage of the system, but it happens.

Actually as a rule recruiters don't even actively screen women because of the problems with them getting pregnant during their DEP time.

Am I saying we won't recruit them ? No, just that we won't canvas for them.

Simple fact is, if you get pregnant out in Iraq, it costs the military almost $20,000 to get you home and replace you with someone else after you consider equipment, training, and the plane travel / convoy to the AO.

That has actually been the rule the entire time, unless your married and your having sex with your spouse, although that seems to be changing. It is needed in order to prevent the spread of STD's along with preventing pregnancies that force the military to have to send that woman home and then have to replace her. It is fair because it is unfair to the rest of the unit they belong too that when they get pregnant they get sent out of the war zone. It shows little respect to their unit and their commitments to their unit.

That has actually been the rule the entire time, unless your married and your having sex with your spouse, although that seems to be changing.

I didn't know that. I guess nobody ever told the writers of MASH the rules.

It is needed in order to prevent the spread of STD's

Maybe we should hand out free condoms in military units too.

along with preventing pregnancies that force the military to have to send that woman home and then have to replace her.

If a woman wants out bad enough won't she find a way? If she accidentally gets pregnant and doesn't want the baby maybe they could provide the morning after pill or assist her in getting an abortion. You know like people here can do.

It is fair because it is unfair to the rest of the unit they belong too that when they get pregnant they get sent out of the war zone. It shows little respect to their unit and their commitments to their unit.

A pregnant woman should be sent out of a battle zone but I am sure they have something she can do that would be beneficial. If we are running out of military to replace the few pregnant women maybe we should stop fighting so many wars.

not

1. really adds to your stance when you have to use a TV show as a point of reference

2. "to replace a few women"...guess it depends on your term a "few women"

2007

10,312 female troops released early from committment - 5.26%

2,700 female troops released early from committment due to pregnancy - 1.38%

B dune, what you should be citing is the number of female troops who were sent home early due to pregnancy. Of course few women are going to cut their service short due to pregnancy, Soliders have free health care. I realize that is pessimistic but i had to deal with alot of this crap when I was in.

Lunchbox

it appears the US Military is "not tracking" how many females are sent back from Iraq/AF due to pregnancies.

the British track and in November sent 10 women home and approx 20 for the year out of a force of 800 females stationed in AF...2.5%. In 2004 82 women were sent home from British forces stationed in Basra region out of a thousand females stationed there.

Numbers seem to be hard to find on this but British Military recently reported it had issued 100 pregnancy tests to its female core of 800 in AF over the last six months - a substantial increase from previous time periods. <

As with the US - the British have a "no touch" regulation in combat areas and are reviewing how this can be enforced./P>

Not over it; Yep, Got to look at it from a miliyary point of view. We are short on soldiers and we need to keep as many as we can over there.

not over it - what is unbeleivable is you cant comprhend pregnancy in a combat zone. it is not a place where you get to do what you want.

Any person who voluntarily enlisted in our armed forces to fight and defend our free country has first read the contract and understands that they give up many of the freedoms that they are defending so that the military can be a cohesive functional unit and not just a group of individuals deciding what orders they want to obey and the ones they don't.

The ignorance of how the military functions is astounding.

Is the one issuing this order too old for sex?

1. really adds to your stance when you have to use a TV show as a point of reference

It was a, apparently not so funny, joke. I got a giggle out of it so not a complete loss. hehe

The ignorance of how the military functions is astounding.

The ignorance of the military is astounding. I understand why they want people to not get pregnanat in the military but jailing women that get pregnant is stupid. People will have sex. Sometimes that sex will end in pregnancy. People should not go to jail for that.

. People will have sex. Sometimes that sex will end in pregnancy. People should not go to jail for that.

They're not. They're being punished for disobeying a lawful order, and like it or not, that's legal. By disobeying that order, they put their fellow soldiers at risk by taking manpower away from where it's needed.

Not over it,

I could write a book for what 'petty' things you could 'get in trouble for'

Hair longer than the top of the neck of your collar (if you're female) Violation.

Forgot to shave this morning ? (males) Violation.

Nails longer than 1/4 inch past the tip of your finger? Violation.

Your SPOUSE getting a speeding ticket for 26 in a 25? Violation.

Your SON wearing flip-flops into the PX? Violation.

String hanging from your uniform or chevrons not properly placed ? Violation.

Not being at a formation 2 hours early if you were ordered to? Violation.

Showing up ON TIME for duty changeover ? Violation.

Not completing your mandatory off duty education ? Violation.

Being 1 lb over your max weight and not taping out? Violation.

Forgetting to pay your credit card on time ? Violation.

Running 1 second over your max run time? Violation.

Walking while talking on a cell phone or drinking? Violation.

Each and every one of these violations can result in loss of pay, rank, forfeiture of privileges, confinement, courts-martial, and upto but not limited to involuntary seperation. Just one instance of any of those could cost you your rank, your liberty, and even force you to move out of your house away from your family and into a barracks room for the duration of your restriction . (You are required to check in with a DNCO every hour.)

You get the idea ? I could go on and on and on . But this is the military. We don't deal in gray areas. There is no room for interpretation. No case by case basis, and no double standards. As my SDI told me ' Rank doesn't make you right."

It's not meant to cater or cowtow to people. Either you can handle it, or you can't. And if you can't , that's fine with me. That's why it 's a volunteer force.

Now why you may ask ? Well, to answer that I will excerpt the warrant that is issued to you when you become a Non Commissioned Officer.

"As an NCO you must set the example for others to emulate. Your conduct and professionalism both on and off duty shall be above reproach. You are responsible for the accomplishment of your assigned mission and for the safety, professional development and well-being of the Marines in your charge. You will be the embodiment of our institutional core values of honor, courage, and commitment. You will lead your Marines with firmness, fairness, and dignity while observing and following the orders and directives of your senior leaders and enforcing all regulations and articles governing the discipline of the Armed Forces of the United States of America. "

Meaning quite simply, that if I want my juniors to respect me and follow the rules, I have to follow them. I can't expect them to do something that I wouldn't or haven't already done.

From the NCOs Creed -

"I am forever conscious of each Marine under my charge, and by example will inspire them to highest standards possible."

"I will strive to be patient, understanding, just, and firm. I will commend the deserving and encourage the wayward."

If you're a parent, you can't tell your children to do something and then do the exact opposite. Or say that something will happen, and then not follow through. The second they see that, they lose all respect for your authority. It's no different in the military, except that we are 'owned' for 24/7. Liberty is a privilege that can be revoked at anytime, hell even the ability to wear civilian clothes is a privilege, not a right. It too can be revoked , forcing us to wear service charlies or bravos all year long.

Is it that rough ? No, not even close. But it can be, and every military member knows that. We do our best to get problems solved at the NCO level, so that sweeping policies like this one aren't necessary, and 2 stars can spend more time working on their putting than bugging us about common sense crap.

Made their bed. I'm laughing.

So the word 'NO' doesn't work over there and better than it does here.

I know. Let's create a Chasity belt for men. the hole is only large enough to pee through. Yah, that will work.

Or maybe just have a little bit of self control of themselves and NOT @!$%#!

Robert 372533'; No idiot,just takeing orders from the top of the military chain of command. Guess who!

bjsmi1973; It started with Adam & Eve and hasn't stoped yet.

Aleg4sure; Been there. Did it. Past history.

diana-659660 wrote "What about all the forced re-deployments? That could use up a woman's childbearing years all because she signed up years before"
Nah. Madonna had a child at age 40. Women have plenty of time, according to the feminist press.

diana659660; What about we just let nature take its course. They make condoms!

Comment 14.2 by cw smallwood

diana659660; What about we just let nature take its course. They make condoms!

No method of birth control is 100% effective save abstinence therefore the question that diana659660 asked is very valid:

There are also times that they go on leave. Are they not allowed to have sex during their "off' days? If someone is forced to go back into a war zome multiple times, facing death, they are not allowed to have sex in between? Does enlisting make one a eunuch?

Diana, enlisting in the military takes up precious childbearing years and forced re deployments? Have you seen the fine print on an enlistment contract. You enlist for 8 years on every contract. It also states that in the event of war this is extended to six monthsafter the war ends unless ended sooner by the POTUS. If you do not want to deploy or re deploy then don't join. If you do not want to take up these precious years then don't sign up. Service members fall under the Uniformed Code of Military Justice (UCMJ) and must abide by different rules than civilians. Again you if you cannot obey the orders of those appointed over you then don't join the military. It was a choice to become a Soldier and follow certain rules and regulations. If a married woman does get pregnant in a war zone and the father is not her spouse she could also face charges of adultery.

Righty, you 're a bit off, or maybe I just didn't read that right.

The first contract is for 8 years, x number active and y in-active ready reserve totalling 8. However after that, your continual contracts are only for 4 years, and once you 've hit 8 years, you owe no more reserve time. You are free and clear once your current contract ends.

Plus unless you're in a high value MOS/rate, there 's not TOO much of an option of you being involuntarily recalled.

Right. Since the military is so understaffed, just pop those puppies out and issue them a gun. Half of the military are just babies anyway.

yourinsane,
This is what you got out of the article??

If you can't control yourself, then maybe you shouldn't be in the military?

Did all of you women read this? :-) It is a matter of control :-) When I am around women I can understand that some women lose control> :-)

But please be gentle with me. :-))

There won't be a draft, and this will have zero affect on recruiting. I highly doubt whether one person will receive a dishonorable discharge over this. In fact I would be absolutely shocked if that did occur. Military judges were handing out 6 month sentences for desertion, I doubt they will even address this.

We're already sitting at almost a year long waiting list. The recruiters in the 6th District RS Jacksonville all had made 'mission' by Dec 10.

Recruiting is easy right now -

"Ring! Hello, want a JOB?"

Repercussions must be dealt to BOTH responsible parties, if at all.

Did you bother to actually read the entire article?

Are you going to force women who get pregnant to have abortions?

No, just making people responsible for their actions and choices. Why is that so hard for some of you to understand?

perfect birth control = no sex in combat zone!

Do you think his wife is stationed with him in Northern Iraq?

You make me wonder.......

deweyd

you must be a supporter of gays in the military overseas (in fact an all gay military) - if there are no "viginas" as you say around - then we have all these men with penises and "whats the use of having one if you don't put it to use".........

Yes, but remember this: This is my weapon and this is my gun, one is for shooting and the other is for fun.

very true - at least the Military taught us to use condoms on the weapons...maybe they can do a better job on protecting the guns....

Leave it to an old vet to hit the nail on the head!!

The job of the military is to kill people and break things. It is not there so people can set up housekeeping in a foreign country. Let them keep it in their pants or pay the price. When I deployed to Nam, nobody let me bring my wife along. Did I like being away from her? Hell no. Would I have brought her to that armpit? Hell no. You said it exactly right Vet. They degraded the efficiency of the entire U.S. military when women were given active combat assignments. The General is absolutely correct. The ones who don't like can learn who is boss.

Women are not allowed in combat units. Unfortunately, the military is so desperate for bodies without a draft that they have no choice but to take women for other units, such as truck drivers and cooks. Thanks to Bush and now Obama for extending our military to the breaking point.

Yes, that way the military can just go back to impregnating young girls from other countries and leaving fatherless babies in war torn countries where they are hated and rejected all their lives.