Hubble telescope shows earliest photo of universe

Cutting the space budget really restores my faith in humanity. It eliminates dreams, goals, and ideals and lets us get straight to the business of hate, debauchery, and self-annihilation.

No need. I think they can see these galaxies from their back yards.

are you serious or did I miss the sarcasm tag?

YoungEarth

"I asked God for all things that I might enjoy life.

He gave me life that I might enjoy all things."

We are part of creation, the shame would be not in admiring the rest of it. It isn't worship to marvel at the Universe around us.

Here is one dying or going supernova!

I think the indoctrination comes from those that try to convince others that fairy tales about talking snakes with magic apples is the truth. These people have been filling impressionable minds with these tales for so long that many don't think to question and blindly follow a book of stories. Glad that scientists actually study, test and work to verify their claims instead of simply saying, "I dunno, but this big book says so, therefore it must be true. Can it be verified? Nope. Oh well, that dude wearing robes who has the front row seat must know what he's talking about."

Thanks Jal, Beautiful.

Ya'll he's just a religious fanatic, not worth your time.

Millions of years + time does not = life or stars.

Nope. Millions of years + time = a lot of time.

Over a period of time things happen, geological, cosmological, changes of all kinds.

So the Earth and the Universe were created 6,000 years ago, complete with fossils of extinct creatures buried in the ground? Never mind. The "truth" is lost on those who are convinced they know the "Truth". No where in the bible does it say that the Universe was made 6,000 years ago. Wouldn't want the fuzzy notion of facts get in the way of belief.

Please provide link to the scientific evidence that Earth is only a few thousand years old.

The thing is, scientists don't sit around all day, then one says, "hey, I think the Earth is billions of years old, for no reason other than I like that number." They have labs and researchers that constantly check and re-check and re-check each others conclusions (whatever they may be studying at that moment.) They also have teams dedicated to trying to disprove any and all claims. When the claim passes these rigorous tests, and the same results can be attained each time, only then will they even consider to call something a scientific theory. They still call gravity a theory, and I'm guessing most won't say gravity is simply a ploy for more grant money.

And regarding money, religion is at the top of the list of money grabs. You don't see these scientists driving around in Porches and Rolls Royce's, but find some hot-shot preacher with his own TV show and you can bet he has a garage full of fancy cars and a huge mansion. And you think science is corrupt?

Besides, I always find it ironic when people are so against science, yet happily use what science has brought the world. It's not religion and belief in a deity that put the computers in our homes.

You know there is a WHOLE section of Newsvine dedicated to Religion, why don’t you take your religion and your protholitizing, and your preaching and go there because what you are talking about has NOTHING to do with Universes and telescopes and science.

I’m SORRY that you think that Science somehow disproves your God, but why don’t you take it to a discussion about your God and let everyone else who likes to THINK and understand and seek the truth that has been placed for us to find.

That’s the problem with you people always running around trying to force your ideas and religion on others. Well Think about this, Your dogma says god gave us free will right?

Well what’s the point if all of his followers constantly force their beliefs into every conversation, into every idea, into every second of everyone Else’s life that they can. You know what your behavior REALLY does? It makes people find you Very irritating.

I just know I have a soul and emotions that are quite different from anything on this earth.

I've seen my rescue dogs look hurt, angry, annoyed, love, frightened, suffer from PTSD and a whole host of other emotions.

As for a soul, how do you define it?

And I know I didn't just spontaneously spawn from a rock or pop out of and egg 3 billion years ago.

You personally didn't, but it took a hell of a long time to get you into your current form.

Why do people get so hostile that the possiblility of a supreme being might exist?

They don't. They get hostile to individuals spouting unverifiable nonsense and calling it fact.

Evolution and cosmology don't mention god not because scientists are atheists (of course some are, but I seem to remember the vast majority are not) but because a divinity has not been observed.

It's as simple as that.

Peoples lifestyle choices usually get in the way and they don't fit well with the possiblity that you might have to take responsiblilty for how you lived your life.

Evolution has nothing to do with morality; it's descriptive of how life in all its myriad forms came to exist, how creatures diverged from one another.

I am personally baffled how pictures of the Universe have anything to do with you smoking and drinking and sleeping with a bunch of women. Your life style choices are wonderful for you but have nothing to do with this article.

Belief in God has nothing to do with disbelieving science. There is absolutely no reason you can't do both.God gave you a brain to use. If you choose to believe what some other human tells you about the Earth being flat, only a week old, that the moon is made out of cheese then so be it.

Everything does evolve. If you don't believe that then how do you explain the diversity in humans? From two people came the rest, then down to half a dozen again with Noah and his family. From that came every race. That must mean that they adapted and evolved to their environments. Because you personally haven't seen the changes throughout time doesn't mean they haven't happened.

I have a hard time believing that life began without help the same way I have a hard time believing that the Universe was created in a instant out of nothing. The easy answer is God did it. But I also have a brain capable of questioning how. Nothing wrong with that. Blind faith and spitting in the face of what is in front of you is wrong.

I think your mind is somewhere back in your drinking and womanizing days.

No body said anything about mating fish and frogs.

Each kind will only produce of its kind and they will produce variation according to environment.

That is evolution. At least part of it. Changes over time, adaption.

I'm not going to get into a argument with you about science, you obviously believe what you believe and don't believe in science. Cosmology, Quantum Physics, Biology, Geology, Physics, Mathematics and on and on. It's around you every day, it's staring you in the face right now.

You can't appreciate the science of God? That's too bad, for you. We live in a physical universe, with laws, with history, made up of molecules and atoms, chemicals and minerals. Some of it we can understand, some we probably never will.

God, whatever that is, is way beyond our understanding. But what is here we can learn about and understand, at least to a point. If you don't want to trust in anything but blind faith I don't want to take it from you. But for some of us we can believe and learn at the same time.

Even Darwin at the end of his theory said that he didn't believe it could happen without "Divine intervention." He didn't have a clue about DNA or many other things we have learned about since. He observed, made some assumptions, wrote a book.

Evolution as never been observed because it never happened.

And yet there's new strains of flu, colds, AIDS and a host of other viruses and bacteria every year.

Your missing the point. Variations + billions of years does not = diverse kinds of animals. Micro evolution is the only type that has any scientific merit at all. But it only covers slight variation within the kind. It does not mean fish turned into mammals.

Micro-evolution when looked at over longer time periods is macro-evolution. To deny that is similar to claiming seconds don't turn into years.

As for my personnel life I was trying to give examples of the kinds of things that can be atoned for in Christ. I should have replied directly to that person. I don't think it was you. I was just trying to say Hey I'm not perfect but God can forgive you for anything.

Which has nothing to do with evolutionary science.

So you believe in the gap theory. I can live with that. I think God has blessed us with all of our knowledge and technology. But much of it has been twisted by evil or corruption of one type or another.

Science and technology are no different that books insofar as they are morally neutral - and all of them can be used for 'good' or 'evil' purposes.

But different flu strains are only another example of micro evolution.......i.e flu will still only be flu.

How about how H1N1 shows characteristics of both avian and swine flu strains? Or the Liger (where lions and tigers - two distinct species - can mate successfully)?

There is absolutely no evidence of macro evolution in the fossil record or anywhere else.

Micro-evolution happens. Think of it as the old claymation animation process. What do you think happens when you pile on small changes over a long period of time?

What do you think killed off most of the dinosaurs? I believe it was the flood.

Moses supposes his toeses are roses, but Moses supposes erroneously.

There's no evidence a great world-wide flood at any time. In geology, there's something called the K-T boundary. Current best theory is meteor impact - single or multiple - is the cause of the end to the Cretaceous era.

It's the flu.

Two different types - species, if you will.

They are both cats.

And totally different species. Didn't you just say:

Each species only produces it's own species

So either you're wrong or you're changing your thinking. Well, or hypocritical and changing to meet the needs of your current argument.

The grand canyon was formed from a great flood.

Evidence, please.

There are nearly 300 different cultures with great flood legends and all of the stories are very similar.

All cultures also talk of ghosts and evil spirits, but they're no evidence for those, either. Kind of a shame, really - I like the idea of poltergeists.

I think some smaller dinos still exist in remote parts of the world today.

Indeed they do - alligators, crocodiles and a whole host of others. That still doesn't invalidate the K-T boundary.

There are hundreds of accounts of people killing dragons through recorded history.

There are hundreds of accounts of gods (yes, plural) interacting with humans, too.

The bible refers to dragons about 35 times.

So? The bible says a lot of uncorroborated things.

The word Dinosaur has only been around since the 1850's.

The word quark has only been in use since 1963, yet these make up a hell of a lot of matter.

Do you know the problem with science?

Explaining it to stupid people.

Guys, this person thinks that because of the bible he doesn't have to know science, then he proves is idiocy with claims about science that he doesn't have the first clue about.

The only argument that can be made is that "Young Earth" Does not believe in science.

And it shows.

Trying to convince him of anything scientific is impossible because he invents science as he goes along instead of actually researching, that is why his claims and statments don't make any since.

He takes one scientific fact, Specization is defined by the inablility for that species to successfully mate with any other. Well that's real science right there.

But then says that if specization is true then there is no evolution...

Now that's just crazy talk.

OF course he also says all mutations are negative. Blagh, MOST mutations are negative. However there are also a bountifull amount of mutations that are neither positive or negative.

Oh lets look at a negative one, my favorite Sickle Cell Anemia. This is a mutation and is considered a negative trait in modern culture. Well When it emerged it actually helped the people servive against Malaria. Individuals with Sickle cell were immune. SO guess what, after several generations Most people in this region (da da da) had sickle cell.

WHY?

People who Didn't have the traite didn't often live long enough to successfully mate.

Now Obviously this didn't lead to speciesation.

But if you want to look at a Species that IS currently changing take a look at the grey squirrels near the grand canyon.

Are you aware of the size difference between a House cat and a Lion?

A lion can grow to 10 feet in length… While I hate to be Gross please consider the OBVIOUS problems that would occur in the actual ACT required to produce offspring… (this alone defines them as separate species)

NOW the Gestation period of a Lion is 110-119 days, the Gestation Period of a House cat 60-67 days,

The birth weight of a lion is 4 pounds, Weight of a kitten much less than 1 pound.

Actually… Weight of a House cat 9 to 12 lbs.

OK so let’s say we artificially inseminate a house cat with Lion seed.

What do YOU think is going to happen? Speaking of Thinking.

I used the term species because that is what your mind is programmed to understand. I like the term KIND.

I like words that actually mean one thing, myself. Species and kind mean two entirely different things.

A lion and tiger are the same KIND of animal......both cats. I could probably mate my house cat with a tiger or lion, because astonishingly enough they are all cats.

*smirk* Umm, no. Most of the great cats can't mate with one another, and although I'd have to check I'm reasonably certain your housecat-lion isn't possible.

Their offspring would probably come in a wide "variety" of body types and coloring, but they would still all be cats.

By that reasoning, humans are apes and chimpanzees.

If you want to go through life believing everything sprung to life from rain on the rocks and chemical soup 4 billion years ago that's fine with me. If you want to believe every word some so called scientist throws at you I could care less.

I'm more willing to believe what thousands of scientists say, especially since the evidence is readily viewable and the logic train works.

You should try thinking for yourself sometime.

Let me get this straight: You clearly believe an English translation of a Latin translation of a Greek and Aramaic text is the truth despite contrary evidence, and I should think for myself?

The irony, it burns!

One nice thing about that site is - other than the parts I read have been long since explained - is that it plays at having it both ways when it supports their conclusions.

Look at the flood evidence page; it's claims hinge on radiometric dating, which they claim is incorrect.

So, which is it?

Point being you can't dismiss the young earth evidence.

If the premise is faulty, the conclusions will also be faulty.

I look at is this way: if 6=4, I'm the President.

You see, if 6=4, then you divide both sides of the equation by two, 3=2.

If you subtract one from each side, 2=1.

Me and the president are two, therefore me and the president are one.

It's clean, it's logical, and it's utter crap.

Young Earth Creationism - and all other forms of Creationism, including ID - start with the conclusion that God must have done it and work through the evidence for support.

Science starts with a question and looks for supporting evidence.

No scientific discipline includes a deity because a deity has not been observed in a repeatable verifiable way. It's that simple.

Let's take these point by point, shall we?

Yeah I guess it is scary for some people to let that door open even a crack.

Don't make it personal, dude. It's not scary to believe God created the many forms of life we observe any more than it is to believe evolution created the many forms of life we observe.

The difference between them is this: "God did it" requires no proof. "Evolution did it" requires proof, and has it.

Do we know all there is to know about evolution? Of course not. And really, I think it would be monumental if someone could come up with a better scientific explanation of the diversity of life. Can you imagine how the world would change if there another verifiable way that fits the evidence?

Your scientific evidence is as corrupt as your logic.

By all means, please poke holes in my logic and the scientific evidence.

Scientists are not infallible people so why should we take there conclusions as gospel?

I don't take a single scientist's word as 'gospel'. I take the work of thousands doing verifiable and peer-reviewed work as a whole that come to the same conclusion and figure they're likely on to something.

Were you there when they did this science you speak of?

Were you there for the biblical events you speak of?

You never back anything up but you sure can talk circles around the argument.

You also haven't answered most of the questions I've raised. I guess we're equally screwed.

Many of their educated guesses or personal opinions they sell as science fact are tainted by corruption and greed.

[citation needed]

Of course God did it. Have you ever actually looked at the world around you? If the sun was any closer we die. Any farther away we die. If the moon is not exactly where it is we die. If the magnetic field wasn't here we die. If we didn't have gravity we die. I could go on.

If any of those were different, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

That's called the anthropic principle and your points are a perfect working example of it in motion.

Why can you see the obvious?

I am seeing the obvious. Since the era where humans have a way of maintaining evidence by audio and video recording, god has been eerily silent worldwide. This strikes me as having at least two possibilities:

• God doesn't want to be recorded for some reason
• God does not exist

And really, whatever you want to believe is fine by me, but don't expect to call creationism and ID and "scientifically valid" without actually following a scientific methodology.

I guess aliens probably made it all.

I'm not claiming aliens did it any more than god did it for the same simple reason I've told you already in multiple forms: No scientific discipline includes a deity because a deity has not been observed in a repeatable verifiable way.

It's that simple.