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Fineman: Obama's no-new-taxes corner

Tue Jan 12, 2010 2:34 PM EST
politics, health, obama, white-house, only-on-msnbc-com, tax, labor, howard-fineman, surtax, trumka
msnbc.com News — Howard Fineman, msnbc.com - Only on msnbc.com
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WASHINGTON — TON - Glory and honor aside, politics is about one thing: taxes. President Obama’s State of the Union predicament is an example.

As he prepares the speech that will summarize his first year in office — coinciding with the unveiling of his budget in early February — Obama has a problem: he has to propose more new taxes than he wants, but hasn’t decided which ones to choose.

This is an uncomfortable — not to say politically dangerous — position for any president to be in, especially one already at risk of being labeled by many independents as just another tax-and-spend Democrat.

Obama’s situation is made more difficult by the health care crusade that has become such a mixed blessing in his first year.

He vowed that the health care overhaul would not cost the Treasury money — indeed, that it would save money in the long run. But as he looks for ways to satisfy the left wing of his own party by increasing benefits and subsidies for coverage, it looks increasingly like the final bill will do neither, at least in its first decade.

So now the president is in a bind. He needs to find more revenue to pay for the health care overhaul, but he also has to assure the bond markets that we will have the discipline — and the money — to repay what we have borrowed from the world and our descendants. That is the message his new budget is supposed to convey.

To help pay for health care, Obama chose to back the idea of raising $150 billion with an excise tax on the value of so-called “Cadillac” health insurance plans purchased by companies or individuals.

Academic experts say the tax would save money by imposing greater cost consciousness; labor unions are vehemently opposed, and AFL-CIO President Rich Trumka on Monday told the president so.

Obama told Trumka that he would reconsider the idea. But I doubt that he will abandon it. One reason why is that he may well want to use another health care financing idea for general deficit reduction; that idea is a surtax on individual income above $500,000 and family income above $1 million.

The “hit the rich” tax would generate a whopping $450 billion over ten years. It’s a fat budgetary piggy bank, but one you can only break once. “You can only tax `rich people’ so many times before you run out revenue, “ said Maya MacGuineas of the Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget. “Once you do the surtax, that’s it. You can’t use it twice.”

Obama is in a tighter bind because of previous pledges and decisions. In 2008 and early in his presidency, he promised not to raise taxes on families earning less than $250,000 and he decided to extend most of George W. Bush’s 2001 and 2003 tax cuts.

Violating those pledges would make the Democrats’ political situation even more perilous among swing-state and swing-district voters. On its face, the surtax would not violate the pledge.

The president also knows that there are economic reasons for caution on taxes. He and his circle accept some measure of supply-side thinking. The new buzz phrase around the White House is “de-stimulative” — that is, as the country struggles to emerge from recession, you don’t want to raise taxes or cut spending in ways that weaken the stimulative powers of government.

So besides the surtax, where is he going to get the revenue to start paying down the massive debt that exploded during the Bush Years?

The White House and its outside advisors are floating several ideas:

This last prospect has faded, I am told, but Obama insiders haven’t stopped touting it around town. Since it would be applied to brokers — and to hedge fund transactions — it is attractive politically. It would not be a direct tax on individuals or families, but would allow Obama to go after unpopular Wall Street traders. The bank-transaction tax has the same populist appeal.

“Politically, it’s a good narrative,” said MacGuineas.

It’s a narrative you can expect to hear when the president steps to the podium in the House of Representatives for the State of the Union. But the real narrative is this: his struggle to make the numbers add up, not only for this year, but for the generation to come.

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  • Public Discussion (993)
Jump to discussion page: 1 2 3 ... 16
Wesley Mouch

When you get down to it - the left's plan for everything is more taxes and even more spending. You can HOPE it will CHANGE but we're all going to end up serfs to the Sun King of socialism.

  • 113 votes
#1 - Tue Jan 12, 2010 2:55 PM EST
Madison From NY

Kinda painful when reality meets socialist liberal ideology being pushed by Obama and the democrats.
-- The problem with socialism is eventually you run out of other peoples' money.

  • 144 votes
#1.1 - Tue Jan 12, 2010 3:02 PM EST
Greg-591497

This is an uncomfortable — not to say politically dangerous — position for any president to be in, especially one already at risk of being labeled by many independents as just another tax-and-spend Democrat.

This made me laugh. I think he earned that title long ago.

  • 98 votes
#1.2 - Tue Jan 12, 2010 3:24 PM EST
JIM041424

B.O., the President, is a financial moron and now his lack of foresight and common sense is catching up with him. He made great promises to get elected, has spent money we will likely never be able to repay, and now he is in a quandry as to how to fix it.

Has this man ever balanced his own checkbook ? Does he even now realize that this Health Care legislation will send us even further down the black hole of future debt for our children ? Who is he going to borrow the money from ?

We need some CPA's in Congress who actually understand financial matters.

  • 85 votes
#1.3 - Tue Jan 12, 2010 3:27 PM EST
Allen-968499

Uh oh. Does this mean MSNBC is a fear-mongering conservative just trying to obstruct progress now? That's what's been stated on here time & again for those who said this was coming. Why tax? Obama said it'd be deficit neutral.

  • 54 votes
#1.4 - Tue Jan 12, 2010 3:30 PM EST
coloradoan-1141358

C'mon give the Pres. a break! You're expecting too much from someone who has never even run a lemonaide stand.

  • 86 votes
#1.5 - Tue Jan 12, 2010 3:34 PM EST
ToxicChemist

In 2008 and early in his presidency, he promised not to raise taxes on families earning less than $250,000

He hasn't kept any other campaign promises, why would this one be any different?

  • 83 votes
#1.6 - Tue Jan 12, 2010 3:37 PM EST
Tired of Criminals

Here it comes!!! Robin from the hood is about to take what little we have left and spread it out to his voters. Can't say we didn't see this day coming.

  • 63 votes
#1.7 - Tue Jan 12, 2010 3:37 PM EST
Mixman34

Bye bye in 2012!!

Should the theme song for the 2010 election be "Exodus" by Bob Marley?

  • 47 votes
#1.8 - Tue Jan 12, 2010 3:37 PM EST
coloradoan-1141358

You say you want a revolution
Well, you know
We all want to change the world
You tell me that it's evolution
Well, you know
We all want to change the world

The Beetles

  • 19 votes
#1.9 - Tue Jan 12, 2010 3:43 PM EST
K. in CA

No kidding he's in a corner. In every way possible. He thought the American people were going to lie down and let him walk all over us. NOT SO!!!

We will vote the arrogant, shameless, greedy dems out ASAP. The WH corruption is going to end. WE ARE SICK OF IT.

  • 68 votes
#1.10 - Tue Jan 12, 2010 3:44 PM EST
Fred G. from N.C.

I'm all for increased taxes, starting with the Wall Street suits and Hollywood liberals!! Give tax cuts to small businesses and small business owners and cuts for any company that creates jobs. Cut the 35% corporate tax rate and watch the revenue increase as businesses move here instead of moving "offshore". Of course anything that makes sense is the opposite of what is going to happen!!

  • 52 votes
#1.11 - Tue Jan 12, 2010 3:48 PM EST
craig speakman

I have an idea, lets not honor our financial obligations to China and Japan and then we won't have to worry about how to tax Americans anymore. We can call it even for all the technology they stole from us by being educated in our best universities and making alliances with our greedy corporations, merely so they could get a first hand look at our technologies and manufacturing processes. It doesn't cost nearly as much to simply modify an existent technology than it does to spend millions on research and development to come up with the technology in the first place. They might seem polite in person, but they have been stabbing America in the back for the last several decades.

  • 20 votes
#1.12 - Tue Jan 12, 2010 3:49 PM EST
Robert Duckworth

Let's see, what makes people sick the most. Cigarettes, alcohol, a poor diet. We can tax the crap out of the first two. We can't make people cook healthy. Healthy restaurants don't always fly. The first two though, cheap wine and booze shouldn't be cheaper that a decent dinner. Put that money into health care. Tax Paula Deen on every stick of butter she uses on her cooking show. Make low cost meals avaliable, I mean you could buy a box for $6.00 to feed a family of four. A meat or veggie protein, canned vegetable, a grain like rice or something GOOD for you. Or color code foods. 1 black box is a serving for four of protein. 2 blue cans are vegetables. #3 box of grain. Make any combination of these cost the same so you know how much dinner will be. We feed our ARMY pretty well. Did anybody expect health care to be free. Free health care means moving money INTO an organization. The people who complain about universal health care already have their own health care. Why should they care about anybody else?

  • 5 votes
#1.13 - Tue Jan 12, 2010 3:49 PM EST
Paul F

So he lied? Can't wait to hear the spin. The smartest man in the world will likely use the "no one knew how bad it was" like he did with the "pass my stimulus and unemployment won't go over 8%" excuse.

$150 billion in new revenue from taxing Cadillac plans? Do these idiots not understand that when you tax people who cannot afford the tax or simply won't pay them, they change their behavior? Just look at the Kennedy "luxury tax" and what it did to the yacht industry for evidence.

And if you tax the "banks" haven't we all learned that WE pay for that tax? The lower income and middle income folks? Do you honestly think the rich will pay a dime?

These people have no shame, they will lie until they get what they want, and lie some more when they tell you "no one knew" and have to tax everyone for their simple-minded schemes.

  • 52 votes
#1.14 - Tue Jan 12, 2010 3:49 PM EST
Gary 420

The only way out of this mess is through growth in the economy. Growth means more jobs, it means more tax revenue, more money to the states, etc. Obama and the Dems policies cause the exact opposite of growth.

The "Rich" are the people that create the jobs in this country. The rich have choices about what to do with their time and money. Let me illustrate: I have a small real estate business. I have had a couple of rough years, but think things may get better. I could open up another office the next county over. Hire a receptionist, hire some agents, lease some office space, buy new furniture, phone, fax, computer, etc. It would provide a small kick to the local economy. Maybe I invest $100M or so in getting the second office started up. I will also invest more time each month in hiring, training, supervision, prospecting, etc. Multiply that by another couple of Realtors, CPAs, lawyers, dentists, insurance agents, dry cleaners, auto repair shops, financial consultants, etc and you start to have some economic activity.

But wait, Obama thinks we are rich. After a year or so, If I make an additional $50M to 75M in net profit from this office, something approaching half of it will go for taxes. I have a big unknown in health care costs for any new employees (which is why we try to get everyone classified as an independent contractor). The state of Illinois is broke and they are likely going to be raising taxes. I can't do estate tax planning because no one in DC can decide what to do. Do you folks now see why things are at a standstill???? The tax and regulatory environment is simply punishing to people that want to go out and grow their business. It is far easier and safer for me to just leave my business alone or maybe hire one guy to work out of his car than to make a large investment.

Reduce tax rates now!!! Eliminate the Death Tax Now!!! ( At least, take the rates down to 25% ((remember this income has already been taxed)), No more bogus stimulus bills, no more cap and trade. Every dollar the govt spends is a dollar taken from a productive citizen. Get some economists on the White House staff that have owned businesses and made a payroll and know something besides academic theory.

  • 51 votes
#1.15 - Tue Jan 12, 2010 3:52 PM EST
Leiya123

The video link posted below gives a pretty good picture of how fed-up some of are with this administration. Speakers-on.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZkvkLmkYVg

And for many of you, it just might put you in a better mood! But for some of you, it just might solicit some scathing Newsvine posts.

  • 8 votes
#1.16 - Tue Jan 12, 2010 3:56 PM EST
Ken DriessenExpand Comment Comment collapsed by the community

The problem with socialism is when you get people like the first two commenter's here flapping their jaws it becomes the National Socialist United States Workers Party. That is where the banksters print themselves money and a little on the side for the Defense Contractor CEOs and everything else is made in China. Socialized warfare to protect the interests of the 1% or less of the top feeders around the world. Socialized Health care in the form of sickness and death for profit. Madison and Wesley don't you know that the people who gain from the selfish neo-conservative philosophy you and Rush Limpwadd spew call you cattle?

  • 5 votes
#1.17 - Tue Jan 12, 2010 3:58 PM EST
glocked

OBAMA. "YOU LIE!"

  • 53 votes
#1.18 - Tue Jan 12, 2010 4:03 PM EST
Somesense

So besides the surtax, where is he going to get the revenue to start paying down the massive debt that exploded during the Bush Years?

The "massive" debt during the Bush Years is petty cash compared to the massive debt that 1 year of Pres. O spending. I'd like to know how he plans to pay for his own debt first and how he plans not to keep spending more. Balance budget?..nope middle class get ready to be taxed into the poor class. Got'ta love distribution of wealth.

  • 39 votes
#1.19 - Tue Jan 12, 2010 4:03 PM EST
bibol

The title should be. OBAMA Lies again. Increases taxes on the middle class.

  • 33 votes
#1.20 - Tue Jan 12, 2010 4:08 PM EST
Common Sense Mike

That would only be the title if there were a Republican president. With a Democrat in charge, we are suppose to feel sorry for him and believe he doesn't want to, but he just has to....get it?

  • 35 votes
#1.21 - Tue Jan 12, 2010 4:10 PM EST
Madison From NY

The article title should be "Obama: pathological LIAR or common CROOK?"

  • 33 votes
#1.22 - Tue Jan 12, 2010 4:15 PM EST
Steelman-495358

Obama- I have a brilliant idea! Most American's are happy with the insurance they have but still open to RESPONSIBLE healthcare reform. This is a piece of expensive, partisan, fast-tracked, invasive, secretive, pork-laden and HIGHLY unpopular healthcare re-form ('er re-creation) bill that "Pimp" Reid and "shrink-wrap" Pelosi have managed to regurgitate on you and your administration. It is wrought with bribery that stinks like you know what, and like a cancer, it now seems to be growing into the monster that we all suspected that it would. Do America and We The People a favor and scrap this completely devious piece of crap legislation and start over - without your liberal, partisan congressional bastards in charge of course. The more band-aids you stick on this piece of outright tyranny against the American people, the more unpopular you and the Democratic congress are going to become and you can't go much lower than where you are today. We The People will bury you and these DEM-wit moron congressmen at the polls for it - bank on it! No one is going to get away with creating the amount of tyranny and outright ignoring of the wishes of the American people - and get away with it. Your radical liberal ideology will not survive! If you have any prayer of success as a President, then you had better start moving to the center - and quickly! For starters, you need to fire a lot of your administrative staff and start over - beginning with "twinkle toes" Emmanuel, the poster boy for little man syndrome, followed closely by the greaseball, Axelrod. You can basically take your Chicago brand of politics and put it where the sun doesn't shine. We want this present brand of congress and government to get their filthy hands off of our healthcare

  • 36 votes
#1.23 - Tue Jan 12, 2010 4:17 PM EST
Robin Steele

The health extortion omnibus reconciliation act of 2010 must never see the light of day. It is time for Americans to stand up and be counted on this issue. This is not about fixing the economy, this is about stealing money from hardworking people. Nothing more nothing less. There was never a public option here, this was strictly stuck out there as a smokescreen, because this criminal act upon the American people is being perpetrated at the behest of the insurance industry, or as it was once called "La Cosa Nostra" I have always been proud to be an American, but all I can feel for this congress is shame and pity!

  • 15 votes
#1.24 - Tue Jan 12, 2010 4:20 PM EST
RichMJones@rcn.com

How much is this tax? Right now every family owes $174,000, after 10 years paid it will be $524,000, with no interest. This math is so simple why is left out of the article?

(Answer: The writer creates a pretty story but never does the math.)

(Quiz: If the return on investments was 5 percent how much capital is needed to earn 174,000? Hint multiply by 20)

  • 3 votes
#1.25 - Tue Jan 12, 2010 4:20 PM EST
Ken DriessenExpand Comment Comment collapsed by the community

Let's just come out of the closet and do what glock, sense, no sense & bibo want. Let's get rid of the constitution, president and the government all together and let the Bilderberg, skull and bones, Bohemian club, Trilaterals run the country and the world up front. Is that republican enough for you boys and girls?

  • 5 votes
#1.26 - Tue Jan 12, 2010 4:21 PM EST
amzp1

To help pay for health care, Obama chose to back the idea of raising $150 billion with an excise tax on the value of so-called “Cadillac” health insurance plans purchased by companies or individuals.

So, people who have good health insurance and have been paying for it (and paying too much for it) are now going to have to pay even more for good health insurance?? And, those who can't afford insurance are now going to be forced to purchase insurance?? Well, that certainly is going to help our economy and improve our health care.

  • 22 votes
#1.27 - Tue Jan 12, 2010 4:24 PM EST
Dennis-956826

"Obama’s situation is made more difficult by the health care crusade that has become such a mixed blessing in his first year."

Do you think there is any critical thinking in the media when they report a story with this kind of slant? MSNBC, you should be ashamed of yourselves and the heavily one sided reporting that you do... simply disgusting. No wonder there are so many people who are blinded to the liberal Marxist tyrannical government that they elected just a year ago.

  • 18 votes
#1.28 - Tue Jan 12, 2010 4:24 PM EST
keet59

Let me get this straight- If I provide a good insurance for my employees I get fined, ahhh yep right, I'll be hiring more employees reeaalll sooon.

  • 26 votes
#1.29 - Tue Jan 12, 2010 4:26 PM EST
ldo

Another lame excuse to support the President's only legacy to remember him by after he is voted out of office after ONE TERM.

I am just sitting on pins and needles waiting to hear what is going to come out of that teleprompter for his State of the Union speech. Maybe the media should change State of the Union to something more appropriate for this Administration.

This stupid idea probably came from his Chief Economist Adviser (Mrs. Romer).

And just to think, our cities and States are running huge deficits, and yet, they are going to raise taxes on just about everything to cover their rear ends because of uncontrollable spending, just like on the beltway. So where does this leave Average Joe ?? We are getting hit from all sides.

Damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead to complete destruction.

  • 18 votes
#1.30 - Tue Jan 12, 2010 4:27 PM EST
DWF

So now the president is in a bind.

Surly there's a way to spin it and blame Bush or just lie (libs call it breaking a promise because they inherited it from Bush) like usual.

  • 24 votes
#1.31 - Tue Jan 12, 2010 4:28 PM EST
ArmyMom-1522913

Anyone who believed those making under $250,000 wouldn't be taxed is delusional. Taxes is like anything else, they roll downhill. Those who make that kind of money usually have a trail that goes back to tax-paying people so they will simply raise the cost of doing business.

Banks repaying TARP money will do the same thing. To make ends meet with profit, will tack on more for the cost of doing business with them. Hence, the people making less money will be paying more anyway.

Robert- do you really want government to tell you what you can eat or not? They have healthy food already boxed in the supermarkets. You can't make people choose what they eat. I agree people should be concerned about healthy eating but I don't want someone telling me what I should eat. That $6 box of food will raise to $10 in a short time if they raise taxes on the ingredients that go in there.

States already tax cigarettes and just recently raised taxes on alcohol and products with sugar. Guess what people either stopped smoking or didn't change their habits and just pay more. Please be careful what you wish for as those who want to regulate what others do will ultimately have someone who wants to regulate what you may do too.

  • 18 votes
#1.32 - Tue Jan 12, 2010 4:29 PM EST
CA Educated

So besides the surtax, where is he going to get the revenue to start paying down the massive debt that exploded during the Bush Years?

Convenient how he left out the part about the debt exploding under a Democrat controlled Congress (at least since 2006). I seem to recall the economy and housing market going on a downward spiral starting right around 2006.

Obama lies. "No new taxes on families making under $250,000." What a joke. Doesn't he understand that small businesses make over that amount and I bet a majority of small business owners have families to take care of. Since when is it okay to punish the wealthy in this country? I thought we were providing the "American Dream" yet everytime I turn around we have to tax the wealthy, which ultimately trickles down to the middle class forking over the dough. Maybe if the Administration (and future Administrations) cannot afford all of their projects, they should start eliminating them, instead of taxing us to cover their bottom line!

  • 18 votes
#1.33 - Tue Jan 12, 2010 4:30 PM EST
31openingmyeyes

Gary 420

Couldn't agree with you more. Why would one want to be successful if we're going to be punished for it? Why would I work harder than the lemmings of society if I am to receive the same 'fair' lifestyle? This is the problem with Socialism; striving for mediocrity...

  • 22 votes
#1.34 - Tue Jan 12, 2010 4:35 PM EST
Greg in OceansideDeleted
C Walt

What do they mean"borrowed from the world"? The United States has loaned so much money to other countries, not to mention the billions the nobama game them of our tax money last year we could call in the loans from the world and clear the deficit as well as cover that farce of a health care bill and have money left over.

  • 2 votes
#1.36 - Tue Jan 12, 2010 4:41 PM EST
american vet

To quickly summarize BO's first yr in office. FAILURE! (but, he's on track to become the worst president in history) Jimmy has hope.

  • 26 votes
#1.37 - Tue Jan 12, 2010 4:42 PM EST
Damu Dame

Ken, funny thing is that most sheeple dont even know what you are talking about, they actually thing Obama has some kind of pull...NOT. they call it a conspiracy or are so wrapped up in their "own" party that the thought of both parties not givin a sheet about them hasnt even crossed thier minds...even funnier thing....most of those theories have proven to be CORRECT! All you have to do is look them up they dont even try to really hide it anymore....

  • 4 votes
#1.38 - Tue Jan 12, 2010 4:45 PM EST
MtMike-571674

When there are more government jobs then taxed free enterprise jobs in the US economic system, like now, and this happened for the first time in the History of the US, under George W Bush and Obama administrations, this country and its citizens are done/finished.

Both parties use, look to government as a "cure-all",

If a citizen has a government related job, government jobs are based on taxes from the free enterprise system, then any cut in government hurts employment, and the whole "food chain" involved with our economy in the US.

It is just not democrats, but republicans and anyone who enlarges the cancer know as government that has created waaay too much intervention, and dependency on the system to fix a problem.

What ever happened to personal responsibility?

We in the US don't need more laws/governemnt, the laws we have, properly enforced (including on Wall Street and Bankers) are plenty.

We in the US need a greater sense of responsibility to our country and each other.

More Laws = more government jobs - more taxes, even if the law is for distracted driving! All that equals a broke America, like now!

  • 12 votes
#1.39 - Tue Jan 12, 2010 4:51 PM EST
Get Real...

His plans leave him no choice, he'll have to tax everyone whether it is done directly or indirectly through corporate taxes (which will erode even more jobs), fees (aka taxes), or income tax. WE WILL ALL GET IT IN THE WALLET MAKE NO MISTAKE. The spending rate is through the roof and its time to start paying for it...

Today EVERY US citizen owns $39,947 to cover our governments debt. This does not cover the operating expenses of the wasteful bureaucracy...this is only the debt. This equates to roughly the average annual wage...pretty scary that we all need to contribute one year's worth of work to get is back to even...

  • 3 votes
#1.40 - Tue Jan 12, 2010 4:53 PM EST
DWF

Obama lies. "No new taxes on families making under $250,000."

That was one of the first numbers they spouted out on the campaign trail.

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/10/28/1600845.aspx

I just love reading comments from past articals like the one above.

Once again, the Repugs show their inability to understand detail and nuance. This is completly consistant with what Obama has said in every statement. Here's a direct quote: "If you make under $250,000 a year, you will not see your taxes increase by a single dime -- not your income tax, not your payroll taxes, not your capital gains taxes, no taxes. Because the last things we should do in this economy is raise taxes on the middle class."

  • 3 votes
#1.41 - Tue Jan 12, 2010 4:54 PM EST
Get Real...

MtMike you need to run for office! You have my vote...

  • 3 votes
#1.42 - Tue Jan 12, 2010 4:57 PM EST
BBYANKO

That's what Obama wants to do for this country and that is the government control's a lot of what is going on in fuel, media, socialist healthcare and spread your wealth around. Obama broke so many promises all the voters fell for his lies. Obama is a smooth talker and his great speeches will will fool anyone to believe in him. Where's the jobs? Oh that's right just a lot of wasteful spending in PORK. The cash for clunkers was a flop, stimulus package was garbage and high deficits, now this healthcare bill which is the same thing rush,rush to get it passed. The Democratic idiots don't care about the cost$$$$$$$ or how it can effect those who do have healthcare premiums or the elderly as long as 35% of American's who don't have this healthcare get a free handout by the rest of us. Some of these 35% chose not to get healthcare so they can use their money to buy their TOY'S. See spread the wealth around like Obama said. Obama promise that their wouldn't be no lobbyist involved, THAT'S A LIE!!!!!. Obama said no taxes well guess what the money that has to pay for this healthcare garbage will raise everyone's taxes. Bad enough the American people are struggling as it is after losing their jobs,homes they don't need to be taxed. Obama just likes to spend, spend and Nancy Pelosi and her low life cronies in Washing don't care as long as she has it her way. Majority of the American people don't want this crappy bill and still the Democratic idiots are given the people the middle finger. "THE HELL WITH YOU ALL, ITS GOING TO BE PASSED". That's your Democratic morons for you.

  • 7 votes
#1.43 - Tue Jan 12, 2010 5:03 PM EST
DWF

Get Real...

What's real scary is the unfunded liabilities for each American- $350K

http://www.usdebtclock.org/

  • 2 votes
#1.44 - Tue Jan 12, 2010 5:03 PM EST
Robert Duckworth

ARMYMOM Not what what you should eat. Just a idea of something different than the dollar menu at Burger King. It's about what you COULD eat instead that "dollar menu filler." I'm sure mom's think a burger has meat, cheese, and bread. And a potato "fries" are a vegetable. That's all the food groups ain't it? But why does my 12 year old weigh 185 lbs? And frozen dinners are real bad if you read the nutrition panel!!

    #1.45 - Tue Jan 12, 2010 5:05 PM EST
    Bill-857242

    How is "Cadillac" health insurance plans defined?

    As good as or better than the law makers' plans? Run by a near bankrupt company, which has been taken over by a near bankrupt government?

    How many times has our government taken full credit for the future revenue generated by a tax like this, only to find that the consumers of the product or service cut back their purchases and / or find substitutes? Thus, the revenue disappears!

    • 2 votes
    #1.46 - Tue Jan 12, 2010 5:09 PM EST
    MDMIKE

    Good Evening Friends One thing for sure it is a rax already on the poorest of the poor. No social Security in crease for cost of living. No Military retired pay cost of living no disability cost of living for military disabled. Hey who cares. All other govern entities got their 3.4 % raise. So if you think in reality who needs the raise the most the poor of the poor the sick the elderly the ones that can't work a job must less a second job. No taxes tell those people about it. They want to use the cpi those moron's. Price of gas went down to 2007 levels and they cut of COLA for the needy not the greedy but the greedy got their raise. Now think rational for a second no one drawing social security or VA disability or Military reitred COLA allowance did not recive a raise for 2010 and they want get one according to the accounting office that I read in 2011. these raises are lost for ever for those people so who in fact is going to pay for the Health care bill the poorest of the poor. the most needy who gets over the greedy. WAKE UP PEOPLE NO NEW TAXES THE POOREST OF THE POOR WERE TAXED AND MY RETIRED MILITARY TAX JUMPED an additional 20 this month who is getting taxed. WAKE UP the price of food medicine and everything we use has gone up. IF YOU LIKE TAX TO THE MAX THANK A DEMOCRAT.

    • 1 vote
    #1.47 - Tue Jan 12, 2010 5:16 PM EST
    SAVEOURCOUNTRYFROMCOMMUNISTSDeleted
    Ed-448897

    Obama has his ideological blinders on real tight. Now he is worried that there isn't enough money to spend on his socialist programs. If he increases taxes too much he'll damage the economy more than he's done already and if he doesn't increase them, he won't have enough money to spend on his socialist re-engineering programs.

    His health care fiasco is riddled with constitutional issues, bribery and ethics issues, and pie in the sky predictions on where the revenue to finance it is coming from.

    The fact that the majority of the people want no part of this health care abomination is of no consequence to him.

    • 6 votes
    #1.49 - Tue Jan 12, 2010 5:31 PM EST
    ROY WILSON-336103

    Anybody that thought that the government could "spend" over a $Trillion for a "stimulus" without raising taxes also thinks that free lunches are available for everyone.

    I heard a smart economist explain why the "stimulus" didn't work;

    "You can't expect the government to take $1 Trillion OUT of the economy and then put part of it back IN and expect it to make a difference".

    • 4 votes
    #1.50 - Tue Jan 12, 2010 5:31 PM EST
    Chief901

    When the president of the AFL-CIO let the cat out of the bag over the impact of the excise tax on health insurance, this proved the plan is not about healthcare, health insurance or anything related to Health. This is an income redistribution plan, as is everything else the democrats are doing.

    Remember the old song that was sang during the "civil rights movement". We Shall Overcome This Administration, not someday, but soon, swift and lethal.

    • 6 votes
    #1.51 - Tue Jan 12, 2010 5:31 PM EST
    There They Go Again

    This guy got himself into the no new taxes thing really good. Remember what happened to GHW Bush? Can you say "single term"?

    • 1 vote
    #1.52 - Tue Jan 12, 2010 5:31 PM EST
    sdpaulson

    White House (the Pres/Community Organizer-in-Chief) to the Administration: does this mean the majority of tax paying, voting, citizens of this country are not believing what we are feeding them?

    Administration (Rahm, Ax, Timmy, etc...) to Congress: look we got a little trouble on our side of town......

    Congress (Nancy, Harry, Barney, Chris, Max, etc....) to the White House and Administration: quit whinning and do what we tell you - keep li....feeding the press!!!!!!

    Speaking of that.... how often have you heard 3rd in line of the chain of command tell the Pres to F-off?????? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0C1C1Q-D0KA -

    Pelosi tells C-SPAN: 'There has never been a more open process' (Sorry C-SPAN, no cameras)

    • 1 vote
    #1.53 - Tue Jan 12, 2010 5:32 PM EST
    Rational AmeriCAN

    You have to love the line in the article about the explosion of debt under Bush, but fails to notice that Obama more than tripled it in his first year. Nice journalism MSNBC.

    • 11 votes
    #1.54 - Tue Jan 12, 2010 5:44 PM EST
    JThomas2121

    The middle class and the poor are already being taxed (forget about those earning over $250,000 a year). Just look at the registration fees for your car this year compared to last. In California, it's almost triple in ONE YEAR (same in New York)!

    Talk about taxation without representation!

    People cry about not having enough but what so may fail to accept or admit is that most of us have way more than our hard-working grandparents could ever have hoped to have, and that includes the middle class of their generation. We have become a nation of spoiled, irresponsible brats and now those tantrums are turning to the government and screaming, 'Gimme gimme gimme!'

    Get a job, work hard, stop thinking you have the right to the big SUVs and fancy flat screen TVs and video game consoles and you'll start to realize you can afford health insurance!

    • 3 votes
    #1.55 - Tue Jan 12, 2010 5:46 PM EST
    ROY WILSON-336103

    Somesense ' "So besides the surtax, where is he going to get the revenue to start paying down the massive debt that exploded during the Bush Years?" The "massive" debt during the Bush Years is petty cash compared to the massive debt that 1 year of Pres. O spending.'

    You have that right. The National Debt has 2 components, the Debt Held by the Public, and the Intragovernmental Debt (held by other government agencies, like the Social Security Administration). The most serious of these is the Debt Held by the Public, since this is debt with interest that has to be paid each year, mainly to foreigners.

    In Bush's 8 years in office, the Public Debt went up by $2.4 Trillion, an average of $300 Billion per year.

    In Obama's FIRST year in office, it went up by $1.74 Trillion, thanks to his "stimulus" and "pork barrel" spending. At that rate, Obama could add $14 Trillion to the Public Debt over 8 years.

      #1.56 - Tue Jan 12, 2010 6:04 PM EST
      Roger 2468

      Tax cuts and reduced regulations worked sooo well under Bush. The ecomony was is such a great shape in 2008. Right?

      • 2 votes
      #1.57 - Tue Jan 12, 2010 6:17 PM EST
      pete-1232067

      Gotta love the union heads on the talk shows today threatening Obama if he decides to tax their health care plans. It's really easy to support health care for all as long as someone else is footing the bill, isn't it? I am absolutely sick and tired of the hypocrisy from the left.

      • 3 votes
      #1.58 - Tue Jan 12, 2010 6:24 PM EST
      Aggie-345886

      UNbelieveable!

      Obama is digging his own political grave... RIP

      • 1 vote
      #1.59 - Tue Jan 12, 2010 6:25 PM EST
      azclarkes

      MtMike - a clear thinker. Novel concept - bonuses to Congress on the number of bills they REPEAL instead of introduce. Every time a law is repealed, the departments required to administer them are removed and we save money.

      Take some personal responsibility. If we cared more about each other and this country, we wouldn't need a "Law Against It".

      GWB,BO - it doesn't matter. Politicians are all the same and reflect the most vocal citizens. If everyone wants to get something for nothing, it doesn't matter whether it is Republican or Democrat.

      Americans as a nation seem lazier than their forefathers and everyone is looking for something for nothing (any less efficient nation would crumble under the weight of lawyers). Everything now and on credit. The deficit is reapoing what we sow - with an inevitable outcome of a lower standard of living.

      Be independent and self sufficient. Teach your children to be independent and self-sufficient. Stop spoiling them and rewarding mediocre results and accepting excuses. They are going to need this, just to compete with the rest of the world

      • 3 votes
      #1.60 - Tue Jan 12, 2010 6:34 PM EST
      PragmaticToAFault

      Roger - no, tax cuts under Bush didn't not have the total desired effect - BECAUSE DUMB ARSE BUSH INCREASED SPENDING.

      WHY do you think independents voted for NOT McCain, but CHANGE via Obama?

      Because people, EVEN Republicans, saw what a fiscal disaster many of Bush's policies were - because he was too LIBERAL. He was a "social conservative", not a fiscal conservative. I know that's hard to wrap your mind around, but try.

      Clinton was more conservative and fiscally responsible than Bush.

      Obama campaigned from the center, and is governing from the left while Congress runs roughshod over our money, our freedom and our Constitution - and Obama is doing NOTHING to stop it.

      That is NOT change, that's more of the same - and he will be out in 2012, after two years without his henchmen in Congress.

      HEY, OBAMA.

      I have an idea.

      KILL THE BILL.

      Then you won't have to worry about how to pay for a piece of crap that will do more harm than good anyway.

      • 5 votes
      #1.61 - Tue Jan 12, 2010 6:34 PM EST
      Johnny Wazoo

      When you get right down to it OBAMA is just another double talkin' politician. And a one term Prez-dent. Change? ..my ass

      • 4 votes
      #1.62 - Tue Jan 12, 2010 6:37 PM EST
      Old Guy-1464523

      The Usurper Obama - the 6% Negro - has lied about everything else, who on earth would you expect anything different now.

      Try growing some ..... hind legs, and stand up! Demand that our Congressmen demand that Obama remove himself or prove his identity. Demand that our Congressmen stand to their oaths under the Constitution - or DEMAND that they step down .... before THEY are removed from office.

      Restore the Union, under the Constitution AS WRITTEN - or SECEDE.

      • 2 votes
      #1.63 - Tue Jan 12, 2010 6:40 PM EST
      dizzykat

      Truly pathetic.

      All of the morons on here complaining about Obama...you are the idiots that got us into this mess. You are the people that supported Bush going into Iraq and ignored the economists and genrals that said it wouold be a fiasco...and now almost a decade later...we are still flushing hundreds of billiosn down that toilet.

      And Bush's tax cuts didn't work. Compare GDP with Bush's deficit spending and you will find that much of the so called "growth" was in fact Bush just charging stuff on America's credit card. Add to that the impact on GDP of the housing bubble created by his no-down, bad credit is no problem, housing plan introduced in 2002...and skyrocketing medical costs because because the insurance industry is free to fix rates... and the so called "growth" that we've seen during his terms was a complete fraud.

      And of couse...we have crumbling bridges, an incompetent intelligence community, minimum wage security guards protecting our skys and ports, a neutered FAA, FDIC, FDA, EPA, FEMA, etc...all thanks to a decade of conservative policies.

      Conservatives ran the ship aground, looted it, and hocked the wreckage...and now you want to blame it all on liberal policies?

      And the lies are the truly pathetic part. Bush rammed through TARP and handed out the billions to the banks with no strings...yet Obama gets the blame. And when he tries to muscle them into paying the money back by imposing salary caps...you whine even louder and claim hes a "socialist"? Obama passed a stimulus bill that was over 1/3 TAX CUTS...and you lie claiming that he is raising taxes?

      Obama was handed an economy in a nose dive...and because he can't snap his fingers and fix everything...you want to blame him? I can only imagine the hatred that would be unleashed if he had had the nerve to say that "the fundamentals of the economy were sound".

      And while he is missing his target on getting troops out of Iraq...the right again lies about his position on Afghanistan. The right claims he said he would end the war...but the fact is that he said it was "the right war".

      You people rant because he waited 3 days (a weekend) before getting on TV to talk about the terrorist...yet you gave Bush a pass when he waited 6 days?

      Are you people really that ignorant or uninformed? Or are you just that full of hypocracy and hatred?

      • 2 votes
      #1.64 - Tue Jan 12, 2010 6:43 PM EST
      independentbychoice

      old guy,

      how do you come up with "6% negro?" his father was 100% black while his mother was 100% white.

        #1.65 - Tue Jan 12, 2010 6:47 PM EST
        ModerationInAllThings

        All I can say is, many posters above have already stated what I would have. Those that have seen my posts already know where I stand on this. And, I'd like to add....

        Thank you and support for all that see ALL of this for what it is, and aren't relenting.

        As a general comment, most of us have been saying for a long, long, time now... we all knew where this was going, we all KNEW what would have to be done to accomplish this destructive act, and again.... ARE RIGHT about cap and trade.

        Learn, learn, learn..... those that were hoodwinked and beguiled, please - - - - accept the learning curve, and be as passionate about righting what has already been "wronged" and help stop more destructiveness from being rammed through or "legislated" (the term legislated used in a very loose fashion; this is really about ONE party representing ONE portion of THAT parties ideals while they can.... that's not legislating in respect to the will of the Majority of Americans, that's Chicago politics, names in the history books, and government forcing Us to listen to Them instead of vice versa).

        For those that say the Republicans did similar things, guess what.... if it WASN'T right then, what makes it RIGHT now? People can argue politics all they want, but this crap coming down Capitol Hill doesn't just affect our lives, it's become dangerous and ruinous; don't confuse me with Henny Penny, but this round.... it's very, VERY serious.

        • 2 votes
        #1.66 - Tue Jan 12, 2010 6:59 PM EST
        ModerationInAllThings

        True conservatives are actually WORLDS apart from what are now considered
        "Republicans".

        I'd be proud to be a Conservative, a member of the Conservative party. A new third party, comprised of citizen representation. Perhaps it could be purple. Republicans AREN'T conservatives.

        I'd have to say that Democrats aren't liberals, either.... they're more of a bastardization of progressiveness.

        Both of these two existing "parties" are really the same, noteably regarding finance, government, and this "global" b.s. . Both controlled by the Illegal Fed Reserve and Big Money. Neither represents ANY U.S. CITIZEN. They've really become a Union or nation unto themselves.

        • 6 votes
        #1.67 - Tue Jan 12, 2010 7:09 PM EST
        Mark-384387

        caeducated, must mean California educated and I can see why. Obama's deficit will be more than all other President's combined. Yes, combined.

        http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123629969453946717.html

        • 1 vote
        #1.68 - Tue Jan 12, 2010 7:10 PM EST
        thinkstraight-306257

        How can they say that BO is at risk of getting the name of being a spend happy president, I think that he proved the point a long time ago. This man has no clue as to financial responsibility and seems to think his subjects (excuse me the taxpayers) wallets are his private piggy bank. This man needs to study economics I think that he flunked it. He did give us CHANGE because that is all we have left when he is done with our money, bet the people that voted for him were not expecting that!!!

        • 2 votes
        #1.69 - Tue Jan 12, 2010 7:17 PM EST
        cantakenomore

        Taxation without representation...ring any bells?

        • 1 vote
        #1.70 - Tue Jan 12, 2010 7:20 PM EST
        4thepeople

        Well since he is not really in the black as per Mr Reid we must assume all his comments are somewhere in the grey.

          #1.71 - Tue Jan 12, 2010 7:22 PM EST
          Tired of BS-654528

          I said it from the very time this empty suited imbecile said this will be "deficit" neutral, He will have no choice, but to raise TAXES on everybody, no free rides America. Of course sounds like, and Congress will push me to raise TAXES, and I will say NO READ MY LIPS, ring bell? How's the hope , and Change coming Voters? Hopefully he too will be a one term loser!

          • 2 votes
          #1.72 - Tue Jan 12, 2010 7:27 PM EST
          GovHater

          "We will vote the arrogant, shameless, greedy dems out ASAP"

          Yeah, and vote the rethuglicans BACK into power... yeah they're not greedy at all, they are completely selfless, ALWAYS putting the common man's interest before anything else, and have ALL the answers... that's why they ALL got thrown out across the board one year ago! My God don't you people get it? I cant believe you still believe one party is better or different than the other... stop drinking the koolaid, take the partisan blinders off and GET A FRIGGIN CLUE!

          • 2 votes
          #1.73 - Tue Jan 12, 2010 7:32 PM EST
          Tired of BS-654528

          GovHater, I too have not bought into the 2 party crap that has plagued D.C. for over 200 years! The real shame, or sham, which ever way you want to say it, is that people honestly believe that there is nothing else, but the 2 party system. You can thank T.V. and a whole lot of Laziness on most Americans behalves! But you and I are truly the minority, and to think Liberals say "they" are the educated ones, hmmm, go figure!

          • 1 vote
          #1.74 - Tue Jan 12, 2010 8:24 PM EST
          Greg in OceansideDeleted
          pjam09

          "As he prepares the speech that will summarize his first year in office"

          I think "Devastating" pretty well sums it up.

          • 3 votes
          #1.76 - Tue Jan 12, 2010 9:30 PM EST
          ConwayTwitter

          Yeah, well O's BS isn't working either! Thanks again for giving the banks enough time to screw me out of hundreds of dollars before your new laws take effect there, too, just like you did with the Credit Card companies!

          If you want to make a law work, make it immediate. You don't give the lewters 6 mo. to 2 years to grab all they can before the law takes effect, you imbicile.

          In 4 days, I WATCHED....with my own eyes, the bank I'm with, MOVE my AUTOMATIC DEPOSITED PAYCHECK to 3 different locations, so they could CLAIM I didn't have the money to pay the checks that came through. I SAW IT with MY OWN EYES! I watched my online banking for three days while they scooped $210 in OD charges away from my check for their own greed, and I HAVE SCREEN SHOTS to prove it. I watched while they CLEARED my payments, then TOOK THEM BACK and sent higher amounts through so they could eat up what was left out of my check faster and overdraft some more, since yes, after they stole $210, I confess, I no longer had enough to pay all the bills I had written out! If they hadn't maneouvered all my payments and assests around to suit their own purpose, they wouldn't have gotten anything from me, but the banks...just like OBAMA, has enough excuses to make their theft legal. What gives banks the right to play GOD with MY hard earned money? Who are they to tell me who should get paid FIRST. First come, first serve. How can they just SHIFT MY ASSETS and PAYMENTS around to suit their greedy paws?

          Thanks, all you Heussein followers! When it's time for REAL change, step aside and let us show you how it's done! 2012 can't come FAST enough!

          • 1 vote
          #1.77 - Tue Jan 12, 2010 11:17 PM EST
          IPlatotle

          I wish you would do some research on a 'historical chart of the federal debt as a percentage of GDP. If you do, you'll find when socialist democrats were in control, our debt was reduced from 126% in 1946 to 32% in 1982. When Reagan's tax cuts (primarily for the rich) were instituted, we moved back up again to 52% and under Bush Sr to 66%. Clinton got it down to 58% and Bush Jr then shot it up to 90%. So much for tax cuts raising more revenues. The debt statistics make that assertion sound ludicrous. And the republican record makes any suggestion that they do a better job of lowering debts, the same.

          If you want to see American serfs, just wait until conservatives prevail in their plan to get us so much in debt we can't afford Social Security and Medicare any longer.

          Someone, please, do the research I suggested. It'll end some ignorance if you dare. Note: I didn't offer a link. You'll find many. But they all say the same.

            #1.78 - Tue Jan 12, 2010 11:53 PM EST
            ModerationInAllThings

            Whatever may or may not be true, Iplatotle, what you've listed following your first assertion is as relevant as teats on a bull.

            "Socialist democrats". Socialist. There are some that believe in taking care of those who do not or cannot for themselves (cannot I understand) but if you've graduated from 6th grade, ......... OH HELL NO.

            I work, I work hard, I think ahead, take risks, lose sleep, stay healthy or try to; in short, I do what I have to do to survive, pay bills, and hope always to get ahead.

            And the times I do get ahead, the last thing I'll tolerate is someone trying to ram socialist crap up into my — — _.

            Altruism is not just over-rated, it's complete bunk; why try hard, why be a great surgeon, why go the extra mile if when you do, it's going to be given to those who don't try, or think hard work is getting up before noon.

            You don't understand the meaning of the word "conservative" and obviously have no clue as to what spending is if you think THIS administration is being prudent or CONSERVATIVE with OUR money.

            Not to be rude, but if you're in kidnergarten, you shouldn't be debating with college students. Your numbers of "percentage of debt" do follow some, mind you SOME, of the worst financial times of America, but your arguement wreaks of "chicken or the egg" coming first. If you don't know the game of the parties being one in the same, or if you can't see where not only has Owebama done NOTHING about the economy save for sell it out MORESO than any before him have, and at a much quicker pace, then.........

            I simply don't know what to say. This is much, much worse than "politics and business as usual"; it's being used in the current environment as doing more damage than 3 decades of what came prior could have.

              #1.79 - Wed Jan 13, 2010 3:38 AM EST
              LMarcT

              The "tax" word doesn't change where people are in this conversation, it just deepens the divide. "New taxes" is considered political suicide... and we should all be okay with that because it serves as a stearn warning to NOT overspend. The problem is that Bush got the "no-new-taxes" part of the message and missed the "don't overspend" part. In fact, he took the conversation one step further and provided tax CUTS... INSANE!

              So here's the divide. I look as the economic disaster NOT necessarily as a "free pass", but surely as a reason to give a break to any promises that depended on economic stability. Seems reasonable, doesn't it? Am I wrong, or do we cut our nose off to spite our face because campaign promises were made before the economic collapse?... the answers will be divided.

              So a little more than half support the handling of the economic recovery (with nervousness around all the money flying about), support the "moving forward" with new health care legislation (with an eye for REAL funding of the bill), and are barely tolerant of continuing the financial drains called Iraq and Afghanistan. And I suspect that this same half don't want new taxes but would be understanding if it is shown that taxws were necessary on the up-swing of this economy to address the debt.

              Its called "responsibility"!

              • 1 vote
              #1.80 - Wed Jan 13, 2010 7:20 AM EST
              LMarcT

              ModerationInAllThings,

              A great deal of what IPlatotle says is true, but many make the argument that past results do not change what SHOULD be done nor should it justify the continuation of the same stupid policies... to steal a line from our friend, PragmaticToAFault, that she correctly used on those that defend over-spending or fiscal irresponsibility by citing past behavior.

              That doesn't mean that we should IGNORE the message though. The past GOP fiscal failures should at LEAST instill a level of skepticism that changing political parties in DC is the answer to all our ills. It should also serve to put doubt in the notion that the DEMS are purely a spending party and that their ideology doesn't support fiscal responsibility... the past says differently.

              So if you're convinced Obama's going to spend us to death based on the GOP campaign cries that continue to this day, then everything the administration does will be viewed in that way. Funny though. If you look at each step taken with an open mind, you can understand that the path is not so radical or irresponsible... and, in fact, MAY be the right thing to do at the time given the state of the economy, the timing needed, and the resources and possibilities available.

              Long story short... give 'em a break. Calm down. Look deeper. Stop generalizing based on false premises... then yell as loud as you need to.

                #1.81 - Wed Jan 13, 2010 7:43 AM EST
                Zathrose

                What Fineman means to say:

                Damn the dems didnt get all Obama's new socialist programs in place before the American public woke up and saw the real price tags through the Obama lies.

                • 2 votes
                #1.82 - Wed Jan 13, 2010 7:58 AM EST
                Reply
                Madison From NY

                One thing Team Obama is good at one must admit is coming up with ways to take our money.

                • 53 votes
                Reply#2 - Tue Jan 12, 2010 2:56 PM EST
                Nokoolaide4me

                Obuma and his crew are like a bunch of gold grilled pimps going crazy spending our money, yet we are the ones doing all the work and getting screwed in the process.

                Is that talk of hope and change still giving everyone that tingling feeling running up your leg? If your having a warm tingling feeling running down your back, that Obuma pissing down your back and telling you it's raining.....

                • 29 votes
                #2.1 - Tue Jan 12, 2010 3:31 PM EST
                freedomfromfreedom

                Not only take our money but find ambiguous ways to spend it. It's like a bleeding wallet but you can't see the blood trail.

                • 17 votes
                #2.2 - Tue Jan 12, 2010 3:35 PM EST
                JIM041424

                Madison,

                This Cap and Trade legislation will really pound the middle and lower class people AND put a severe hurt on industry. This bill will significantly raise power bills for eveyone. B.O. has found a way to keep this from being called a tax.

                • 17 votes
                #2.3 - Tue Jan 12, 2010 3:45 PM EST
                Madison From NY

                Who was the last President to say "read my lips no new taxes" and what happened to him and his party when he raised taxes?

                Can't wait till 2010.

                • 11 votes
                #2.4 - Tue Jan 12, 2010 4:10 PM EST
                ToxicChemist

                Madison, that would be George H.W. Bush during the 88 election. He had to raise taxes during his term in office despite his pledge and paid for it in the 92 election loosing to Bill Clinton (D). His (GHWB's) party, (R) would have to wait until the 94 midterm election before gaining back the majority in congress.

                • 6 votes
                #2.5 - Tue Jan 12, 2010 4:12 PM EST
                Ken Driessen

                Obama filled his cabinet with the same Zionists Bush had so what is your problem? He is keeping and even increasing the insurance sickness and death for profit scheme. He is keeping the war profiteering chicken hawks supplied with the blood of innocent woman and children. He is not even going after the CIA operative Bin Laden just like the bohemian club, skull and bones inbreds have told him. Keep screaming like spoiled babies about liberal this and liberal that but don't look into the Federal Reserve elitist world banker unconstitutional scam that is sucking you dry. Until you babies grow up we will not have a real president again ever: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RaH-lGafwtE

                • 4 votes
                #2.6 - Tue Jan 12, 2010 4:13 PM EST
                DaneLover

                I am willing to commit my "fair" share. I already pay $ 85,000 in federal taxes and $ 22, 000 to the State of New York. My AMT tax is already a "SURTAX" of 6-8000 dollars.

                Every $ 100 I earn is taxed such that I have $ 45 for personal use.

                Yet, I am willing to accept more thievery of my income to make sure idiots, bums, and lazy Americans do not sleep in a cardboard box, eat macaroni and freeze on sidewalks.

                I trust my government can pilfer my income and make the best choices of how to dole it out to illegal aliens....to lend it to morons to buy a house more expensive than mine, default on that mortgage and then ask the government for a bailout....

                I trust my government to make good decisions about honoring contracts for bond holders, for bailing out auto industries that are failing and serving the needs of auto unions that demand $70 an hour for someone to tighten lugnuts..................

                I trust my government to make good decisions about my health and the health of my family while they pay for the murder of tens of thousands of unborn children with my tax money....I trust the government's fiduciary accountants to continue to claim Medicare, Social Security and Medicaid are sound, and safe investments...........

                Well, the boogeyman is now under your bed........

                Any government that must tax more than God asks for ( a tithe- 10 %) , is corrupt in its understanding of the pursuit of happiness.....chiding the citizens and stealing from the creative members of its' society to redistribute the free and private citizens' wealth..........

                Wealth accumulation is a characteristic born of poverty and nurtured by hard work and dedication to family......once a noble endeavor, encouraged by public education.

                Today, wealth accumulators are subject to derision and scorn for depriving other "worthy?" citizens of their "fair share......."

                Marx would have you believe the proletariat was supremely responsible for the wealth of a society....totally ignoring the contribution of the inventor and businessman who would construct a factory, and employ others to make a product or widget. Employees are ONLY entitled to what they agree to as a fair wage for a days work-----not entitlement to another man's invention.

                For, if an employee does think he is entitled, then the businessman will take his invention somewhere else..........and the employee will become unemployed. And, the government will step in and penalize the inventor and businessman, subjecting him to fines and such, and transfering money to the unemployed,
                as though they had produced something, when they have produced NOTHING......

                The continued extraction of money from the employed has a limit.......and simply creating money and
                distributing it virtually at random to some citizens will NOT create wealth.......it creates CONSUMPTION, but not PRODUCTION.......simply put, SOMETHING for NOTHING is an idiot's policy..........

                The Free Market has NOT failed....the elitist and arrogant government REGULATION of that market has failed...........

                • 20 votes
                #2.7 - Tue Jan 12, 2010 4:26 PM EST
                keet59

                This is like watching one of those people addicted to the shopping channel, someone please cut up their credit card!!!

                • 4 votes
                #2.8 - Tue Jan 12, 2010 4:28 PM EST
                Bill-857242

                Toxic - I also add that the real Democratic agenda was revealed during the first two years of Clinton which prompted the backlash of 1994. The Republicans spent a dozen years losing the sense of direction which won the Congress but the Democrats haven't lost their sense of direction as demonstrated in 2009.

                Seems like history is repeating itself but I don't see the same level of conservative leadership in government in 2010 as I did in 1994. Will be a very interesting.

                • 1 vote
                #2.9 - Tue Jan 12, 2010 5:24 PM EST
                Porkbevr

                Ken Driessen - You are one scary individual. And that's NOT a compliment. Tell us more about the Bush Administration's Zionists, and the CIA operative, Osama Yo Momma. There's some of that A-A dialect you "love".

                • 3 votes
                #2.10 - Tue Jan 12, 2010 5:25 PM EST
                There They Go Again

                Ken,

                Are you sure what you posted isn't plagarism? No, you're OK; Mein Kampf is no longer copyrighted.

                • 4 votes
                #2.11 - Tue Jan 12, 2010 5:35 PM EST
                ToxicChemist

                Seems like history is repeating itself but I don't see the same level of conservative leadership in government in 2010 as I did in 1994

                So true Bill.

                • 1 vote
                #2.12 - Wed Jan 13, 2010 9:20 AM EST
                Reply
                Madison From NY

                Q: "Will the president break the tax-the-rich piggy bank to pay for health care?"

                A: YES.

                • 25 votes
                Reply#3 - Tue Jan 12, 2010 2:57 PM EST
                Ken Driessen

                What you have a piggy bank, you must be with the federal reserve? No let's keep the sickness and death for profit scheme Nixon started in place like mad from NY wants. Let's put guys like Brad Birkenfeld in jail so nobody who makes over a million dollars ever pays a dime of tax. Do you bank in Switzerland Mad? Well why are you worried about taxing the rich then? Oh but some half starving sick kid in the inner city might get a tonsil operation out of ya. That would be so unfair. I'm glad I stopped here to remember how morally bankrupt and brainwashed greedy some people are. If I banked in Switzerland and never paid a dime of taxes in my life I sure as hell would not hang around writing goof ball hate the poor people stuff here. Cut down the poor and bow to the rich mammon worshippers is a new verse Madison, koolade, glock and company are adding to the Bible to make the book right once and for all.

                • 2 votes
                #3.1 - Tue Jan 12, 2010 4:36 PM EST
                freedomfromfreedom

                Q: Will Avergae Joe Taxpayer bend over and say "Thank you sir may I have another?"
                A: Yes

                Until people stop blogging in the comfort of anonimity from their home/office and start doing, nothing will change. If the Founding Fathers had sat around all day blogging about how sh*tty English rule was, it is safe to say we would all be eating crumpets with our afternoon tea right now.

                • 7 votes
                #3.2 - Tue Jan 12, 2010 4:42 PM EST
                There They Go Again

                Madison,

                Actually I think it's more like cooking the goose that laid the golden eggs for a quick meal.

                • 2 votes
                #3.3 - Tue Jan 12, 2010 5:37 PM EST
                Tired of BS-654528

                Better get ready for Chow Mein, and Dog hanging in the storefronts, England is long gone, China is our Master now!

                • 3 votes
                #3.4 - Tue Jan 12, 2010 8:27 PM EST
                Reply
                314159

                "Will the president break the tax-the-rich piggy bank to pay for health care?"

                If you consider the rich to be the employed or the middle class..., the answer is YES!

                • 36 votes
                Reply#4 - Tue Jan 12, 2010 3:05 PM EST
                K. in CA

                YES, there aren't enough rich people to tax for Obama's endless entitlement programs.

                He's going to have to come after the middle class.

                • 20 votes
                #4.1 - Tue Jan 12, 2010 3:49 PM EST
                freedomfromfreedom

                My new plan.... petition the revocation of my US citizenship, leave the country and then immigrate back in illegally to enjoy all the benefits I once had but without all the responsabilities and burdens.

                • 13 votes
                #4.2 - Tue Jan 12, 2010 4:18 PM EST
                Ken Driessen

                Don't you realize the Federal Reserve is an entiltement program K of CA? Don't you Realize the Pentagon is an entitlement program where CEO defense contractors make 100 million salaries? And you would starve a baby to protect the real entitlement thugs? Oh yeah just as long as the baby is out of the womb first we can't have abortion if we are conservative.

                • 3 votes
                #4.3 - Tue Jan 12, 2010 4:42 PM EST
                K. in CA

                Ken,

                Of course there are many valuable entitlement programs around, but Obama wants to entitle the US to death. Remember how he keeps saying he wants to "spread the wealth" by creating more and more entitlement programs? Where's the wealth supposed to keep on coming from? An endless supply of Obama money falling from the sky? He's going to tax working Americans. That's where it's all going to come from.

                • 3 votes
                #4.4 - Tue Jan 12, 2010 6:38 PM EST
                Reply
                PacificGatePost

                Just further example of a confused and confusing Administration.

                America still waits for promises of speeches, given during the most expensive Presidential campaign in history, to materialize into actions that will be positive for a Nation facing unprecedented debt, deficits and unemployment.

                America is still looking for a leader.

                http://pacificgatepost.com/2010/01/america-waits-for-leadership.html

                • 17 votes
                Reply#5 - Tue Jan 12, 2010 3:05 PM EST
                Madison From NY

                Sarah Palin 2012 she LOWERED taxes in Alaska.

                • 21 votes
                #6 - Tue Jan 12, 2010 3:07 PM EST
                Rallyforge

                Madison:

                Alaska can afford this since it gets a tremendous infusion of cash from the oil companies. Sarah Palin is a joke, but Obama is no better.

                • 7 votes
                #6.1 - Tue Jan 12, 2010 3:26 PM EST
                east coast

                I have to agree with Rallyforge. Palin is not the way to go and neither was Obama.

                • 13 votes
                #6.2 - Tue Jan 12, 2010 3:30 PM EST
                Mopopz

                talk about no business sense but she's a hell of a booty call, I'm sure the chinese are hoping for that one.

                • 2 votes
                #6.3 - Tue Jan 12, 2010 3:30 PM EST
                Allen-968499

                Palin wasn't running for president.....

                • 14 votes
                #6.4 - Tue Jan 12, 2010 3:31 PM EST
                lib50

                I'm sure the chinese are hoping for that one.

                They can have her.

                • 2 votes
                #6.5 - Tue Jan 12, 2010 3:33 PM EST
                James Lee-367659

                Rally, you might think Palin is a joke but she is the one who re-negotiated the deal with the oil companies to get that infusion of cash rolling into Alaskan coffers.

                • 17 votes
                #6.6 - Tue Jan 12, 2010 3:37 PM EST
                J B-980125

                At least O bammy has not sent his henchmen up there to stop that nasty drilling. All that money and only $ 4.50 to the government to every dollars of profit......What's up with that?

                • 4 votes
                #6.7 - Tue Jan 12, 2010 3:44 PM EST
                Madison From NY

                Rally,

                Just think of all the new jobs building drilling rigs off shore NY and CA and all the NEW TAX REVENUE not ON THE BACKS of hard working citizens. A simple change to JUMP START THE ECONOMY, CREATE JOBS and LOWER TAXES both FEDERAL AND STATE.

                We need someone PRACITCAL WHO REPRESENTS HARD WORKING CITIZENS AND SMALL BUSINESS not BIG CORPORATE AMERICA like Obama and the dems.

                • 13 votes
                #6.8 - Tue Jan 12, 2010 3:44 PM EST
                K. in CA

                Palin has common sense. The DEMS on Capitol Hill completely lack it.

                Also, she actually has some experience and accomplishments on her resume. How about that???

                • 23 votes
                #6.9 - Tue Jan 12, 2010 3:53 PM EST
                toni-445883

                the people who voted odumbo in didn't care about experience and accomplishments..... hence, the mess we are in......

                • 17 votes
                #6.10 - Tue Jan 12, 2010 4:08 PM EST
                Rita-900543

                You're right K. in CA; I have an article written by an Alaskan fisherman with nothing but praise for Palin. She brought revenue into Alaska that the big oil companies had stalled for decades. Part of that revenue goes into every Alaskan citizens pocket. She's not a corporate bully or a tax evader.....she doesn't have the verbal skills that the liberals think is necessary, but look what fancy words have produced! Nothing but further debt and more spending, more taxing, more regulations on our lives. I'll back and vote Palin should she decide to run. She absolutely could do no worse than some of the democratic presidents like Carter, and now Obama. It's time for a woman in the White House.....and not Hillary Clinton.

                • 14 votes
                #6.11 - Tue Jan 12, 2010 4:18 PM EST
                amzp1

                Look, I'm Republican and I wouldn't vote for the MILF.

                Isn't there a free-thinking individual left in politics???

                • 3 votes
                #6.12 - Tue Jan 12, 2010 4:26 PM EST
                Nancy Sawyer

                AMEN RITA!!! You certainly go this right

                • 5 votes
                #6.13 - Tue Jan 12, 2010 4:27 PM EST
                AF Chief

                I could and probably would vote for Condoleeza Rice. She is incredibly intelligent on foriegn affairs, seeks consul from her advisors and is smart, articulate, and experienced in the legislative and executive branches of the United States. If it were humanly possible to combine the talents of Hillary Clinton and Rice - that would be a Presidential ticket that would definitely put our country's house in order! Then have Palin be the press secretary to explain the actions in her folksy style that everyone understands.

                • 2 votes
                #6.14 - Tue Jan 12, 2010 5:44 PM EST
                Roger 2468

                You meant oil royalties din/t you?

                  #6.15 - Tue Jan 12, 2010 6:25 PM EST
                  lib50

                  Then have Palin be the press secretary to explain the actions in her folksy style that everyone understands.

                  Are you f'n kidding? I saw her on an O'Reilly segment and that broad made no sense whatsoever. The only people who can understand her are the ones who can't comprehend anything else.

                  • 2 votes
                  #6.16 - Tue Jan 12, 2010 9:59 PM EST
                  K. in CA

                  Lib,

                  Maybe you should watch Chris Matthews or Rachel Madcow instead.

                  • 2 votes
                  #6.17 - Tue Jan 12, 2010 11:16 PM EST
                  lib50

                  I get my news from multiple sources, so I'll get to see her incomprehensible ramblings from various sources.

                    #6.18 - Tue Jan 12, 2010 11:23 PM EST
                    Reply
                    Clicker-785500

                    The left never seems to understand that it doesn't matter who you target the taxes to. They will always get passed down. Go ahead and tax the banks...then watch them pass on that cost to consumers. Tax stock brokers, then watch them increase fees for their clients. Tax big oil, watch gas prices sky rocket. The examples go on and on.

                    • 35 votes
                    Reply#7 - Tue Jan 12, 2010 3:10 PM EST
                    I'm barry, it's GW's fault

                    Clicker.......tax the rich more and watch how they just leave more of their money unprotected for the government to take. Can the libs be that naive to think that the rich (including Hollywood) will leave their money on the table for the gov to take?......now taxes will filter down to the middle class to pay for the socialist's wet dream. LIAR

                    • 12 votes
                    #7.1 - Tue Jan 12, 2010 3:42 PM EST
                    AF Chief

                    I want to get past pointing fingers at an administration and assigning fault. Each President has faced challenges they did not campaign on. Bush faced 9/11 and the following recession and used tax reductions to foster economic growth. Not bad...it had worked magic during the Regan administrations. Now President Obama faces stimulus spending and the need to bend the defict spending curve down. That is my expectation for the President - reduce deficit spending. Given we have adopted foriegn policies to increase our presense in Afghanistan and support other military operations in the War on Terrorism; and given we have almost passed landmark health care legislation; I expect to see an increase in my taxible income to pay for these two objectives. In the 1970's we included a special tax to pay for the war in Vietnam - I believe we need to embrace that idea again.

                    Increasing taxes forces Americans to question programs and their necessity. While I believe in health care as a fundamental program to foster the general welfare, and I support promoting the common defense, I know these two objectives are costly. I am not willing to sacrifice the pensions of current social security recipients, or health care of current medicare/medicade recipients so I have to be willing to pay to support those programs that were agreed to when I was a child.

                    Where we need to help our Congressmen and President is by giving the President the Line Item Veto to veto spending amendments tacked on to legislataion that supports specific congressional districts at the expense of the whole United States - aka pork barrel spending. I understand how these amendments expediate legislation and reduces legislative administration. But the line item veto would provide the President the ability to approve the major portion of legislation while applying veto provisions to certain line items. If those particular line items are so vital to the United States, there are provisions for those items to override the Presidential veto.

                    • 1 vote
                    #7.2 - Tue Jan 12, 2010 5:58 PM EST
                    Reply
                    Sharon-287953

                    So, tax cuts did not increase jobs in the Good Ole USA, in fact businesses hired every illegal they could find for the cheapest wage possible. If we have to work that cheap then we will live in maytag boxes or become slave labor like they have in China, china the great AMERICAN Business worship zone. So, if we can't have jobs, and they don't want to pay us but want us to live like dogs.. they can be taxed to death to pay for our vet bills.

                    • 5 votes
                    Reply#8 - Tue Jan 12, 2010 3:18 PM EST
                    fxe84

                    Start your own company, Sharon. It would be a great learning experience for you. You can pay yourself top wages, and then you can learn to pay the government top fees (taxes). I assume since you have a computer, you don't yet live in the maytag box. I have found it easy in life to be employed, beacause the company comes first for me, not myself. I love my job!

                    • 30 votes
                    #8.1 - Tue Jan 12, 2010 3:37 PM EST
                    James Lee-367659

                    fxe84, what great advice to give to a liberal.

                    Thank you for trying to instill a little insight into their thought process.

                    I wish I could have voted for your comment more than once.

                    • 15 votes
                    #8.2 - Tue Jan 12, 2010 3:40 PM EST
                    JoJo-362265-751247

                    Sharon, that has got to be the stupidest comment today, you get the prize. You have a little research to to. Obama is the one who wants to level the playing field. Do you think that means everybody does well? It means the government does well, everyone else fall in line.

                    • 2 votes
                    #8.3 - Tue Jan 12, 2010 6:13 PM EST
                    Reply
                    brett-591775Deleted
                    Old Car Lover

                    The man is a liar and has been since he started running for the highest office in the land and then to our dismay was elected to fill that position. You'd better hang on, because BHO is going to reach deep into your pockets to pay for Nightmare.........oops I mean Obamacare, among other worthless liberal programs!!

                    • 30 votes
                    Reply#10 - Tue Jan 12, 2010 3:21 PM EST
                    lib50

                    blah, blah, blah. Piss moan bitch.

                      #10.1 - Tue Jan 12, 2010 10:01 PM EST
                      Reply
                      NJRichie

                      yeah...ummmm I didn't see THIS coming

                      • 14 votes
                      Reply#11 - Tue Jan 12, 2010 3:22 PM EST
                      James Lee-367659

                      Rich, why not?

                      The man told us repeatedly what he was all about in his books, while he was a state representative, while he was a US senator and while he was a candidate.

                      Everything he said pointed toward big government and expensive government programs. There is only one way for government to be able to implement any program and that is by taking money from the citizenry.

                      The man laid out a road map for us to follow. How could one NOT see this coming?

                      • 10 votes
                      #11.1 - Tue Jan 12, 2010 3:48 PM EST
                      toni-445883

                      i read his books but no one else bothered to research the man they would vote in for president..... that's how stupid voters are....... but then again, look at the demographics of who elected him...... not very bright.

                      • 11 votes
                      #11.2 - Tue Jan 12, 2010 4:13 PM EST
                      PastMars

                      obamabots

                      • 1 vote
                      #11.3 - Tue Jan 12, 2010 6:13 PM EST
                      lib50

                      teabaggin' wingnuts

                        #11.4 - Tue Jan 12, 2010 10:02 PM EST
                        I'm barry, it's GW's fault

                        lib50, I must say that it's been easy pick'ins to expose the community organizers amateur administration with its self proclaimed Marxists, Socialists and Communists.

                          #11.5 - Tue Jan 12, 2010 10:41 PM EST
                          Old Guy-1464523

                          Lib50 - I see that you are still fascinated by that weird homosexual act, secret dreams perhaps. Why the fixation?

                            #11.6 - Fri Jan 15, 2010 12:00 AM EST
                            Reply
                            Bigeye

                            Every day Obamas lack of any business sense surfaces how did he plan to pay for all this crap he has proposed he can't and never could. The people that voted for this guy got the most ingnorant and biggest liar Washington has ever seen.

                            • 29 votes
                            Reply#12 - Tue Jan 12, 2010 3:23 PM EST
                            Jim-372206

                            Funny isn't it ?? ---- All you folks are the ones who keeps saying that Obama is a Muslim & not born in the USA,,,, You still echo the rhetoric from PNAC & the John Birch Society

                            These are assumptions on what he will do ---- Nothing more than assumptions

                            • 1 vote
                            Reply#13 - Tue Jan 12, 2010 3:24 PM EST
                            dari-681905-795267

                            Why don't you go move to Calif with the rest of your radical leftist democrats. The dem liberals have ruined that once great state. I lived there for 20 years and couldn't wait to leave as it was and still is all tax and spend. Beautiful buildings they don't need and programs for everything and everybody. A state tax that's thru the roof and business taxes that are obscene. And they still can't balance the budget because of the dem state legislature. This is where Pelosi and Finegold came from and believe in. They won't be voted out because of the leftist liberals in their districts. Typical dem. Oh and he will tax and tax greatly.

                            • 21 votes
                            #13.1 - Tue Jan 12, 2010 3:38 PM EST
                            JIM041424

                            Jim-372206,

                            Religion is not the issue, nor is his skin color or his dialect. His ability to understand financial matters is of vital importance. The man seems to think we can tax and spend our way to prosperity while millions are jobless !

                            Are you that blind to the reality that is at hand ? B.O.'s management of this country is like trying to fly an airplane backwards. IT WON'T WORK !

                            • 21 votes
                            #13.2 - Tue Jan 12, 2010 3:39 PM EST
                            freedomfromfreedom

                            Assumptions are exactly what got him elected my friend

                            • 15 votes
                            #13.3 - Tue Jan 12, 2010 3:42 PM EST
                            dcisshovelready

                            Great point freedom!!

                            • 10 votes
                            #13.4 - Tue Jan 12, 2010 3:56 PM EST
                            toni-445883

                            liberals like to pick on religion, race, etc. instead of the real matter.... stupidity on odumbo...... but he knows exactly what he is doing... socializing... it is all by design by his puppet masters... he is not running the show.... bill ayers, geo soros, all his communist friends are running the show....... when are you people going to learn that he is the SUIT, that's it....... the front man who reads their messages on the teleprompter... this odumbo could NOT run anything if he tried..... and that's why he NEVER DID.

                            • 7 votes
                            #13.5 - Tue Jan 12, 2010 4:16 PM EST
                            hacksaw235

                            Assumptions also got him an unearned Nobel Peace Prize. You'll never see a Republican or Independent recieve one of those...

                            • 5 votes
                            #13.6 - Tue Jan 12, 2010 4:28 PM EST
                            AF Chief

                            The article is discussing assumptions on how President Obama will attack the vexing problem of under-taxing and overspending that has prevailed in our government since the 2003 tax cuts. I understand President Clinton surpluses were overstated, and I've listened to President Obama as he intends to make all spending reflected on the budget as opposed to the off-budget spending of previous administrations. Lets face it - even I enjoyed the benefits of President Bush's and the Republican party tax cuts in 2003. I got to reinvest more of my capital gains and dividends in my small investment portfolio as did most Americans. But someone has to look at Americans in the eye with the sobering voice that we just can't have everything now and pay for it down the road. I expect increases in local property taxes due to decreased employment. I expect increases in State taxes due to decreased employment and rising health care cost to the states. And finally, I expect increased taxes at the Federal Level to pay for past overspending in 2003-2007; 2008-2009 stimulus spending and bail-outs; current wars; and the new health care program.

                              #13.7 - Tue Jan 12, 2010 6:12 PM EST
                              Reply
                              Mopopz

                              How about just calling it quits on the ridiculous profiteering wars. Our many wars have finally tapped us out, regardless of what talking head is in office, wise up Bigeye.

                              Robinhood rules apply, get busy.

                              • 2 votes
                              Reply#14 - Tue Jan 12, 2010 3:24 PM EST
                              east coast

                              Tapped us out? You're acting like we had money to spend. We haven't had that kind of pull economically since before either Obama or Bush were born.

                              The wars weren't a good move, economically speaking, but they certainly didn't "tap us out." They just help dig a hole deeper.

                              We need a serious reversal of course. We need to stop spending what we don't have and we need to get back to a place where we have real products to export. Instead both the Democrats and the Republicans are continuing this system of robbing Peter to pay Paul. It will be a painful transition but anything less will be a painful end to our culture and society as we know it.

                              No amount of "creative" economic dickering is going to bring our heads above water.

                              • 3 votes
                              #14.1 - Tue Jan 12, 2010 3:35 PM EST
                              James Lee-367659

                              Mop, what evidence exists on the profits from war? Who got them and how much did they get?

                              If the military is fighting a war, it must have some degree of support. If that support is provided by a civilian entity, do they not have a right to earn a profit for their hard work, for providing such needed services?

                              Do you think that it is wrong for someone to profit from their work?

                                #14.2 - Tue Jan 12, 2010 3:56 PM EST
                                Tom been both

                                To your last question James. Will it suprise you when the answer is yes?

                                  #14.3 - Tue Jan 12, 2010 4:41 PM EST
                                  hacksaw235

                                  Mopopz,

                                  I love how fools like you conveiniently forget that Iraq got re-visited by our forces because they FAILED to abide by UN and Coalition sponsored sanctions to allow inspectors into their military sites for monitoring of Nucliar, Chemical, and Biological (NBC) agents. Or as the media dubbed them: Weapons of Mass Destruction (WMDs). Upon every instance of a UN inspector trying to fulfill his duty on this task, Saddam Hussein's henchmen blocked their efforts with the promise of force and violence.

                                  George Bush, Sr started the whole thing and FAILED to finish it properly. If he had, there wouldn't have been an insurgency to deal with. In short: we failed to keep promises that we made in the region before the first Gulf War kicked off. To exascerbate the problem, Bill Clinton sat by in the Oval Office and concerned himself with chasing interns with cigars instead of doing a proper follow-up and ensuring that the UN and Kopfi Annan enforced the sanctions and embargoes placed on Iraq. While playing with the interns, the UN, France, China, and Russia raped as much oil as they could off of the Food for Oil Program and let Saddam Hussein do as he pleased with the UN weapons inspectors.

                                  So along comes the younger George Bush. The things that he was guilty of were bad timing (Iraq not actually being THE top threat of the moment), and we were already fighting the Taliban in Afganistan. So we wound up with a military with a divided mission instead of focused on one at a time.

                                  So, reminding you of all of these neglected facts, tell all of us whom the REAL profiteers were outside of the UN, France, China, and Russia. Now stay focused and remember: these threee countries have been the bane of all of our foreign policy efforts for the last 20 years. EVERY time we tried to accomplish a piece of positive policy or diplomacy one or more of them have been there to screw it up in one fashion or another.

                                  • 1 vote
                                  #14.4 - Tue Jan 12, 2010 4:54 PM EST
                                  JIM041424

                                  Tom been Both,

                                  I think we need to hire you my man! Please come to work for us scrubbing down dirty diesel trucks. Since you think it is wrong to profit from your labor, we won't bother to pay you. After all, B.O. will provide for you.

                                  You must be a true socialist if you truly think it is wrong to profit from your efforts.

                                  • 2 votes
                                  #14.5 - Tue Jan 12, 2010 6:02 PM EST
                                  Reply
                                  cyfi

                                  The rich didn't get rich by letting some socialist pick their pockets. They have the resources to shield their assets. Ever heard of tax free bonds or maybe stocks that only have capital appreciation, so you don't pay taxes till you sell them.

                                  Soon, you will see the impact on the economy as money is moved out of the Democrat's reach. It is one thing to help needy people it is another too punish people for working hard and being smart. So far I have counted at least four or five taxes that will impact the rich and the Democrats still want to tax more. HOW ABOUT A RADICAL THOUGHT, CUT SPENDING TOO!

                                  • 27 votes
                                  Reply#15 - Tue Jan 12, 2010 3:24 PM EST
                                  david1262

                                  New taxes from a Democrat President this must be a joke. LMAO

                                  If you believed taxes were not going to be raised for this so call health plan you need to get out more and stop drinking all the kool-aid.

                                  • 21 votes
                                  Reply#16 - Tue Jan 12, 2010 3:24 PM EST
                                  sweaver209

                                  My sister and brother in law just knew that he had the answer to all our problems, and that taxes whould increase, and it was ok for them because he was a true democrat, working and looking out for the working man. and there still happy with everything he's done. They see no problem at all. And they still scream racist at me when ever i suggest he or the demoractic congress has made a mistake. They've had way to much kool-aide. As i read a number of writers on newsvine also have. Recycle congress 2010. Fresh Tea Please!!!

                                  • 11 votes
                                  #16.1 - Tue Jan 12, 2010 3:36 PM EST
                                  toni-445883

                                  ALL DEMOCRATS are tax and spend.... have never met one who isn't....but this one takes the cake..... spending our money like drunken sailors is putting it very very mildly....... REVOLUTION...... REVOLUTION.... REVOLUTION.........very very soon

                                  • 7 votes
                                  #16.2 - Tue Jan 12, 2010 4:18 PM EST
                                  James Lee-367659

                                  toni, I think they are worse than drunken sailors. I think they are spending money like drunken politicians instead!

                                  • 5 votes
                                  #16.3 - Tue Jan 12, 2010 4:35 PM EST
                                  Tom been both

                                  There was one in 1960 but his approach is being denied by the current crop. Kennedy cut taxes and brought us out of the funk that came after WWII and the effects of policies put in place during the great depression. That it worked seems to always be avoided by the left at this point in time. They also avoid discussing that on top of expanding the economy and making fewer people dependant on government aid, it also raised the level of government reciepts afterwards. Unfortunatly this left Johnson the money to start his great society. That has been such a fine mess.

                                  And I have to agree with James. Please quit insulting drunken sailors. They work hard for the money to go drinking. Politicians expect us to work for their drinking without them breaking a sweat. At least not until they are hungover the next day.

                                  • 2 votes
                                  #16.4 - Tue Jan 12, 2010 4:47 PM EST
                                  SeattleBrian

                                  "ALL DEMOCRATS are tax and spend"

                                  I'll take a Tax and Spend Democrat over a Borrow and Spend Republican any day. One is honest, the other kicks the ball down the field for others to worry about, trying to hide things.

                                  Evidence for that? Look at the Estate tax "repeal" (Republican House, Republican Senate, Republican President, 2003). They wanted to repeal the Estate/Death tax, but wanted to hide the effect it would have on the defecit. So they wrote one of the nuttiest laws ever written repealing it (in 2010, there is no Estate Tax), but then adding a provision where in 2011, the law expires and goes back to 2001. This let them say "Hey, look at us! We eliminated the Death Tax" without affecting long-term deficit projections, since the tax comes back next year. Cut taxes, hide the effect on the deficit and kick the problem down the road for someone else to fix later. That's great governance, ain't it..

                                  My preference would be for both parties to CUT SPENDING-- but given that they seem unable to do that, give me "Tax and Spend" over "Borrow and spend" anyday.

                                  Personally I favor split gov't. I think we did pretty well with Dem congress + Reagan/Bush I, and pretty well with Repub congress + Clinton.

                                  • 3 votes
                                  #16.5 - Tue Jan 12, 2010 5:39 PM EST
                                  Ted 050247

                                  great post BLS

                                    #16.6 - Tue Jan 12, 2010 7:30 PM EST
                                    Reply
                                    navalairsupport

                                    misguided steps sums up this administrations first year. lofty goals to insure americans. why didn't obama reform the insurance industry? why go on a quest to reinvent the wheel. we are near the completion of his first year, and still no help in sight.....i guess just another smooth talker got elected...

                                    • 11 votes
                                    Reply#17 - Tue Jan 12, 2010 3:24 PM EST
                                    Jim-372206

                                    navalair,,, Probably because this wheel pretty much has to be reinvented --- It doesn't roll any better than a square tire

                                    • 1 vote
                                    #17.1 - Tue Jan 12, 2010 3:31 PM EST
                                    east coast

                                    Actually, Obama should have focused in on jobs and education first. Small reforms are not going to fix our problems. Another unproven social program sure as hell isn't going to either.

                                    • 10 votes
                                    #17.2 - Tue Jan 12, 2010 3:37 PM EST
                                    RV in GB#1

                                    east coast - You hit the nail on the head. If you want more people insured you start by making sure more people are EMPLOYED.

                                    • 1 vote
                                    #17.3 - Tue Jan 12, 2010 5:08 PM EST
                                    lib50

                                    Its all so easy. Surrender to Al Qaeda, leave the middle east. tax cuts to the rich, p!ss, I mean trickle, down for the poor (those policies do tend to shrink the middle class - can't pay workers too much or profits will shrink),

                                      #17.4 - Tue Jan 12, 2010 11:29 PM EST
                                      Reply
                                      I'm barry, it's GW's fault

                                      Once again, Joe Wilson was right.....YOU LIE!

                                      • 31 votes
                                      Reply#18 - Tue Jan 12, 2010 3:25 PM EST
                                      axl in Iowa

                                      yup yup

                                      • 4 votes
                                      #18.1 - Tue Jan 12, 2010 3:33 PM EST
                                      lib50

                                      .

                                        #18.2 - Tue Jan 12, 2010 11:30 PM EST
                                        Reply
                                        Mike-397032

                                        I know know why Obama keeps meeting with the banker's. it is not to reprimand them, it is to learn how they come up with all of those fees. This administration gives tax and spend a bad name!

                                        • 14 votes
                                        Reply#19 - Tue Jan 12, 2010 3:27 PM EST
                                        lifeisadimension

                                        The tax gap can be reduced substantially by making the patient part of the billing approval loop. Now, the medical provider directly bills the insurer, commercial or government. This practice leaves a large hole for corruption and error and violates accepted process control practices in other fields, as well as common sense, hence the recently announced $60 billion a year Medicare fraud losses. The current practice also leaves a large hole in patient satisfaction and in outcomes, as providers are naturally significantly more attentive to whoever pays the bills.

                                        • 3 votes
                                        Reply#20 - Tue Jan 12, 2010 3:29 PM EST
                                        Jen-377162

                                        Here we go with taxing the rich and the middle class again. RICH PEOPLE own businesses, they give to charities, they donate to scholarships funds for needy students. My BOSS is rich and eventually he's going to be the rich guy who gets fed up and closes the doors or lets people go. I'm sick of us a nation punishing those who do well just to provide for the people who don't. Where is the incentive for them to do better? there isn't one! We've become a nation that sits around and waits for a handout rather than putting in hard work. Why work hard when the government is just going to take everything they can and give it to someone else who doesn't work hard.

                                        • 25 votes
                                        Reply#21 - Tue Jan 12, 2010 3:29 PM EST
                                        Jim-372206

                                        Jen,,, Just lie back & enjoy the rape,, Use an IUD ---- Conservatives have done little to stop the economic collapse but fight against what has to be done to correct it

                                        • 1 vote
                                        #21.1 - Tue Jan 12, 2010 3:34 PM EST
                                        Another View

                                        So very well put, so well put. Could not have said it better myself.

                                        • 1 vote
                                        #21.2 - Tue Jan 12, 2010 3:38 PM EST
                                        Bevy-474665

                                        Some great words Jen! Amen and Amen!

                                        • 5 votes
                                        #21.3 - Tue Jan 12, 2010 3:44 PM EST
                                        Common Sense-1506918

                                        I don't know about anyone else, but I don't believe I have ever worked for a poor man. Jobs are provided by the wealthy and if they are taxed and their wealth redistributed, we will not have jobs. That should help the unempoyment rate. Obviously the goal of the Obama administration is, and shall always be, to "take capitalism apart brick by brick". This would certainly contribute to that. Other countries envy us because our Constitution provides the kinds of freedoms that they would like to have. If someone, or many someones in the case of Liberal Progressives, do not like how our Country works perhaps the best solution would be to move to a country that does not practice free enterprise. Too bad we can't "vote them off the island" as well as out of office!!

                                        • 11 votes
                                        #21.4 - Tue Jan 12, 2010 3:50 PM EST
                                        freedomfromfreedom

                                        Well said Jen... America is no longer the land of opportunity. The Amercian Dream is dead. Success is no longer rewarded. Incentive does not exist. Among all the great freedoms this land offers is another freedom, the freedom to fail

                                        • 4 votes
                                        #21.5 - Tue Jan 12, 2010 4:35 PM EST
                                        SeattleBrian

                                        I've heard this before.. How the 93 tax increases were going to kill the economy, etc. etc.

                                        I do own my own business and if you think that having my taxes raised from 36% to 39.6% made me less driven, less willing in to put in the time to succeed, hire people and make $$, you're very mistaken.

                                        In general, we have a pretty good balance between rewarding success on one hand and ensuring that we don't live in a banana republic, where a very few own 99% of the wealth on the other. Real socialialism (not current "talk radio socialism" ) is a terrible way to run a society, as evidenced by the fall of the Soviet Union (as well as common sense). But true, 100%, "winner-takes-all, screw-the-little-guy" capitalism isn't very good either. I don't particularly like/enjoy paying taxes (a pretty high percentage, plus double SS/Med since I'm self employed), but neither do I want to live in a society where we just say "sorry, you starve" to the eldery or less fortunate [what did Scrooge say.."if they should die, let them do so and decrease the surplus population"]-- not everyone can 'win' in a capitalist society. Or, to be more cold-blooded about it, a society where we let the poor starve isn't a very good business climate for me to make my money in.

                                        So for me, it's about where the balance gets set. Talk Radio and liberal bloggers like to talk as if we have to choose either/or. But its been the evolving balance we've created in this country that (IMO) makes it so great.

                                        • 1 vote
                                        #21.6 - Tue Jan 12, 2010 5:56 PM EST
                                        Bill-857242

                                        My wife is a legal resident from a non-English speaking country; went through the complete process to get a green card and will be working on citizenship soon.

                                        Her background education was high school in her home country and she admittedly was a poor student. Then she got a two year diploma in hotel - restaurant management in her home country and she admittedly seldom attended classes and made poor grades. She is now taking night university courses to earn a Bachelor's in Finance.

                                        Her employer will help in the education costs to the tune of $5K this year but she didn't wait for that to start taking and paying for three courses end of last year (two As and a B+). She would pay for her own courses if her employer chose not to support her. Her goal is to be an attorney.

                                        She is doing the same job here that she did in her home country. She made about $10K per year there and is making $70K+ here.

                                        What do you think her answer would be if asked if America is a land of opportunity?

                                        To her, failing is an event and a learning opportunity, not a character trait. Yeah, she's upset / mad / embarrassed - what ever? But does she sit around a complain and gripe? Yes! She's human but does she move on quickly? Yes!

                                        Am I blessed to have her for my wife?!

                                        • 2 votes
                                        #21.7 - Tue Jan 12, 2010 6:01 PM EST
                                        tom474e

                                        The marginal tax rate for the rich was 90% in the 50s, and we were building infrastructure, the country was doing well. In the 70s it was 70% and when Reagan got elected he slashed the rate to 35%. Trickle down economics or Reaganomics was a failure, it didnt work. And when Clinton got in, Wall Street again was in control and we had regulations and laws thrown out not to mention NAFTA. Both parties are at fault, both parties are siding with Wall Street and not with the American people.

                                          #21.8 - Tue Jan 12, 2010 7:37 PM EST
                                          lib50

                                          Tax cuts for the rich! Tax cuts for the rich! Please sir, may I have some more?

                                          • 2 votes
                                          #21.9 - Tue Jan 12, 2010 10:05 PM EST
                                          Reply
                                          JIMradio

                                          hmmmm...wonder how much we're spending per month on two wars?

                                          sorry, but i don't feel threatened by either iraq or afganistan

                                          • 3 votes
                                          Reply#22 - Tue Jan 12, 2010 3:31 PM EST
                                          Allen-968499

                                          http://www.costofwar.com/

                                          So currently it's at $948,354,780,000 since 2001.
                                          Comes to 105,372,753,333.33 per year or
                                          8,781,062,777.78 per month

                                          Compare that with 800 billion in the first quarter of Obama's bailout + 200 billion from Congress before that and you get something that is 8X the cost of both wars per year.

                                          Compare with 10 trillion for setting up health care to come into effect in 4 years and that is 20X the cost of both wars per month.

                                          That's a losing debate you've got going there. Especially since Dems voted for both wars too.

                                          And Clinton didn't feel threatened by them either. Alot of good that did since the hijackers started training 7 yrs before Bush was in office. The entire Oliver North trial left leaders feeling unthreatened by Bin Laden too. Whether you feel threatened or not, they will do someone harm again.

                                          • 16 votes
                                          #22.1 - Tue Jan 12, 2010 3:41 PM EST
                                          Kevin-859385

                                          I wonder if those who died in the Sept 11 attacks felt the same way.

                                          • 1 vote
                                          #22.2 - Tue Jan 12, 2010 4:12 PM EST
                                          RV in GB#1

                                          ...So what you are saying is that we should STOP the two wars? Fine. I'm sure the families of the troops would appreciate that, and I would love nothing more than to see our troops come home safely. I DO think that they are doing a tremendous job, and they ARE keeping us safer because they are taking the fight to the enemy, but fine, let's end the wars.

                                          I would like to ask you one practical (unpopular, but practical) question:

                                          Are you going to employ hundreds of thousands of troops coming home to an economy that has no jobs?

                                          • 1 vote
                                          #22.3 - Tue Jan 12, 2010 5:17 PM EST
                                          Fenderfan72

                                          JIMradio,

                                          lemme guess, this is your lame attempt to again blame Bush for everything and turn the other way at Obam's reckless spending. Those Wars are a drop in the bucket compared to porkulas bills and health care reform. There is just no getting through to you drones is there? You're gonna support this hack come hell or high water.

                                          God you people have ruined this country with your racism! That's right, I said it! You vote for someone because of their skin color you are a racist!

                                          • 3 votes
                                          #22.4 - Tue Jan 12, 2010 5:38 PM EST
                                          lib50

                                          I am surprised how quickly the right (or are you teagaggers, or wingnuts, republicans?) want to give up fighting the terrorists. I might call them quitters. Surrender monkeys? Terrorist supporters? Weak? I believe I heard those words back when some of us were telling them going into Iraq was a mistake.

                                            #22.5 - Tue Jan 12, 2010 10:08 PM EST
                                            Reply
                                            plutocracytownDeleted
                                            axl in IowaExpand Comment Comment collapsed by the community

                                            One word... dirtyrottencocsucker

                                            • 8 votes
                                            Reply#24 - Tue Jan 12, 2010 3:32 PM EST
                                            bepatient

                                            According to the article- "Obama has a problem: he has to propose more new taxes than he wants."

                                            Oh, really?

                                            What a load of crap. Admit it, he lied! The Dems always want to raise taxes just look at everyplace they're in control.

                                            • 20 votes
                                            Reply#25 - Tue Jan 12, 2010 3:33 PM EST
                                            Bevy-474665

                                            Health care to KILL all who disagree with the TAX AND SPEND policies of this gov't!

                                            I HOPE you're all happy with your votes NOW!

                                            Nice to see the MSM writing some of the truth of what's coming down the pike for us all ...

                                            • 3 votes
                                            Reply#26 - Tue Jan 12, 2010 3:33 PM EST
                                            Chris-936968

                                            How about no matter what business they tax, banks, healthcare it all gets passed on to us in the end anyway so who do the think they are fooling?

                                            • 5 votes
                                            Reply#27 - Tue Jan 12, 2010 3:33 PM EST
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