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Armed, resolute, church group heads for Haiti

Thu Jan 14, 2010 6:55 PM EST
only-on-msnbc-com, haiti, haiti-earthquake, embassy, landis, port-au-prince, haitian, domingo, santo, santo-domingo
msnbc.com News — Bill Dedman, msnbc.com - Only on msnbc.com

Members of the Lifechurch of Allentown, Pa. ties supplies atop their SUV on Thursday before leaving on a desperate relief mission to the orphanage in Port-au-Prince, Haiti, that their congregation supports.

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— ON THE ROAD TO PORT-AU-PRINCE, Haiti - What would Jesus do? Well, in these circumstances, he'd probably pull strings at three embassies, stock up on machetes, put yellow police lights on his vehicles and find a quiet place to cross the border into Haiti.

At least that’s how Randy Landis interpreted his likely course of action.

“Our emphasis is to witness, to be the hands and the feet of Jesus,” said the 50-year-old senior pastor and founder of the Lifechurch in Allentown, Pa., who is leading a desperate relief mission to the Haitian orphanage the church sponsors. “If Jesus were here, what would he do? I don't think he would be in America sitting and watching the television. If he had a way to get to Port-au-Prince, he would get here. He would be a first-responder.”

It was nearly dusk on Thursday when Landis and three other members of the nondenominational church left the Dominican Republic city of Santo Domingo for the Rescue Children's Orphanage in the Haitian capital, Port-au-Prince.  Already, the 11 children and four staff members there have spent two nights sleeping outside, afraid to risk the collapsed walls of their home amid continuing aftershocks.

After loading the SUV with as many supplies as possible, Landis and the others paused for a minute of prayer, forming a small circle by the side of the highway, before beginning the journey. The trip to the border, on good highways through the mountains, was expected to take about four hours.

But the group wasn't certain it would be allowed to cross, and safety on the other side was uncertain. The State Department warned Americans not to visit Haiti and not to travel after dusk in the capital, Port-au-Prince. The church members aren’t afraid to use guns, but they weren’t willing to try and take any firearms across the border. Machetes and police lights would have to do.

"How many of you got a knife?" mission director Ramon Crespo asked as the workers finished tying down the two stories of supplies: 25 gallons of gasoline, sacks of potatoes, vegetable oil, bananas.

He then handed out hunting knives like boarding passes as the others clambered into the SUV. But he held onto “Johnny,” his 10-inch serrated knife. “If you throw this, it nearly always sticks,” he said.

The border guards from the Dominican side were said to be turning back many vehicles, particularly rental vehicles like the group’s Mitsubishi, the last vehicle available at the Santo Domingo airport.

But the pastor had in his pocket a lucky card to play.

On the flight down from Newark, N.J., church handyman Ramon Morales sat next to a Haitian living in New Jersey, Hubermann Debrosse, who said he has not heard from his wife or children — a 2-year-old son and a 20-year-old daughter — in Haiti since Tuesday’s killer earthquake. Debrosse, who said he was a doctor who speaks three languages, was trying to make his way to Port-au-Prince, so he was immediately hired on as translator/fixer. It turned out that Debrosse's roommate from the Haitian medical college he attended works in the Haitian Embassy in Santo Domingo.

So on Thursday, before heading out, the doctor and the pastor visited the embassy.

"There were maybe 70 (or) 80 Haitians “frantically trying to communicate with embassy officials, notes, pieces of paper, can you find so and so,” Landis said. “And inside it was just jam-packed, trying to get in to see an official. Wall-to-wall people. Very orderly. You could see despair on their face."

Hubermann talked to the guard, and "we were immediately walked right through the crowd that took us to the back of the embassy into an office where the doctor was. He immediately embraced him. He said everything in Creole. All I know is he gave us his business card, wrote his number on the back. I'm hoping we won't have to use it."

If they are turned back by border guards, there is a plan B, Landis said. "Our driver knows another way in without a checkpoint," which they hope will enable them to enter Haiti unnoticed.

The group had been offered a charter flight to Haiti from Santo Domingo. The pastor's wife, Maribel, has a second cousin who works at the American Embassy in the Dominican Republic, and the cousin's husband works for the Dutch Embassy. But a charter flight wouldn't have allowed the group to bring all the gasoline, propane, food and crates of medical supplies.

"The orphanage has food for maybe 10 more days," Crespo said. "They have rice, but not much else. Without this food, they're not going to make it."

Earlier in the day, the load on top of the SUV came loose, spilling medical supplies packed by former Bronx paramedic and church volunteer Frank Andino onto the side of the road. The driver screeched to a halt and the load was retied more securely. 

Now, passing a Burger King on the highway out of the city, the roads were smooth and the view serene: beautiful mountain peaks reaching into the clouds.

“Right now, this is all the easy part," Landis said. "Once we get near that city. … I hope we get there. If we can't reach our destination, it's not like there's a Motel Cinco.”

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txmom32

Wishing these lovely men a safe journey. Prayers to all.

  • 18 votes
#1 - Thu Jan 14, 2010 7:21 PM EST
USARogue

“If Jesus were here, what would he do? I don't think he would be in America sitting and watching the television. If he had a way to get to Port-au Prince, he would get here. He would be a first-responder.”

Pfffttttt! Of course he would get there!

He can walk on water.

  • 8 votes
#1.1 - Thu Jan 14, 2010 7:41 PM EST
JAC28Deleted
USARogue

JAC28

Now, now. That wasn't very Christian.

  • 11 votes
#1.3 - Thu Jan 14, 2010 8:04 PM EST
Diane-1530584

Trust in God.

(but carry a big knife.)

I guess Jesus would have brought an ak47.

But aside from the religious spin, best wishes to these brave men.

  • 9 votes
#1.4 - Thu Jan 14, 2010 8:15 PM EST
MtMike-571674

These religious zealots should be arrested and prosecuted - bringing weapons is not their task and they are stupid to even "go there"! Also, potentially illegal entry, failure to get proper papers, etc - all in the name of what? Their fanatical religous views = Think as I do or we will kill you.

If these religous fanatics want to help humanity, walk the streets of the US of A and assist your "brothers" and "sisters" that your system has left behind.

  • 13 votes
#1.5 - Thu Jan 14, 2010 8:33 PM EST
jkenney1973

Mike,

I'm an atheist, but even I can recognize that these men are risking their lives to help others. Is that so wrong?

  • 31 votes
#1.6 - Thu Jan 14, 2010 9:11 PM EST
YepYeah

MtMike: This "religious zealots", who happen to work in charities hand in hand with the needed people, are doing way much more than what you and Pat Robertson can do combined.

  • 16 votes
#1.7 - Thu Jan 14, 2010 9:11 PM EST
Laos Deo

It's going to get real sporty. They will need protection. These folks burn down their own towns and village's when they get to rioting. Look what has happened in the USA in the past.

  • 6 votes
#1.8 - Thu Jan 14, 2010 9:11 PM EST
Sammi.lea

I belong to Life Church and I am an active member. So for you MTMike, our church does NUMEROUS project in the community around us, such as food drives, donating to the school, building/renovating houses for people soo.... Please do not put them down, they need as much suport as they can get.

  • 24 votes
#1.9 - Thu Jan 14, 2010 9:23 PM EST
YepYeah

Sammi: Thank you!

Don't pay attention to some commenters here, they seem to be just bitter, what a sad existence.

Good luck on your job there :)

  • 12 votes
#1.10 - Thu Jan 14, 2010 9:30 PM EST
Megalodon-358694

lol...ok, it isn't like these people are down to coffee cans and strings to communicate here. but still...a SUV going thru the streets of starving people, is just a little insane, and to be so public about it, can lead to a lot of trouble. to tell everyone what routs you are takeing, without any real protection is crazy...real protecion being a police escort, altho i know tuff atm.

    #1.11 - Thu Jan 14, 2010 10:58 PM EST
    Gus-393033

    Stop criticizing a good work!

    I don't care if they bring protection... sounds pretty sound minded to me.

    God Bless and protect you guys.

    • 12 votes
    #1.12 - Thu Jan 14, 2010 11:10 PM EST
    Get The Point

    after reading comments by Rush Limbaugh and Pat Robertson.... WOW.... it's a little hard to be positive...

    but,

    good luck to these guys! anyone who closes their mouth and gets off their ass to make a positive difference stands out in the crowd these days - and in a very good way!

    • 11 votes
    #1.13 - Thu Jan 14, 2010 11:37 PM EST
    MtMike-571674Expand Comment Comment collapsed by the community

    These religious "whackos" are not assisting/helping anyone - anyone that really believes their religous front is nutz!

    Under the disguise of some phoney religon/cause, they are farthering their personal agenda - phoney religion - vigilantes is what they are - and they should be arrested and prosecuted!

    Their philosophy/religon, Think as I do, or be killed - some religion/cult.

    Religous Whacko's attempting to FORCE their beliefs on someone - this is just one more example.

    Those that support this cults journey are just as whacked as this cult is.

    What gives any group the right to take their own agenda - arm themselves, "in case", violate exsisting laws, ignore the government their going to laws/rules?

    Oh yeah, the United States does this all the time, invading foreign countries, under some phoney cause - Iraq, Afghanistan, the Middle East - in the name of some cause - that really does not exsist, to force those that we do not agree with/understand, into the likeness/beliefs we desire -

    Let's follow this cults journey and see where these nutz go

    Why don't they just clean up/assist their own countries homeless, their are plenty of homeless kids in America, rather than arm oneself to illegally invade another country using a phoney religon!

    • 4 votes
    #1.14 - Fri Jan 15, 2010 12:02 AM EST
    MtMike-571674

    Unfortunately what they will wind up doing is divert needed resources to help get them out of trouble. The will have to bring fuel and food so they can survive. What's going to be left over to help those that need it. Leave it to the professionals and donate the funds used to pay for this venture.

    Sorry, Logic not applicable to religous nutz = Gawd is on their side!

    • 4 votes
    #1.15 - Fri Jan 15, 2010 12:21 AM EST
    Mark-394701

    Mike, the children they are going to help is worth it. Period.

    • 14 votes
    #1.16 - Fri Jan 15, 2010 12:37 AM EST
    ToldYouSo-

    A little unorthodox by our standards, but bless thier hearts.

    • 5 votes
    #1.17 - Fri Jan 15, 2010 2:03 AM EST
    txmom32

    Megaladon...Read..They are off to an Orphanage to help CHILDREN who have no building to sleep in, no water to drink, no food to eat and handful of exhausted and frightened care givers who probably will welcome a fresh perspective about now.

    They are following their hearts and doing what Jesus would do to respond to the needs of these children at a time when adults around them could easily push them aside for their own adult needs. Yes it is a risk, but who knows they may be offering relief to a future leader of Haiti or the next Mother Theresa.

    You are certainly within your right to be cynical and flippant but, it is very sad. Truly a prudent person would still wish for a safe journey. A faithful person would wish for God to keep them safe and allow this mission of mercy to be unfettered.

    • 9 votes
    #1.18 - Fri Jan 15, 2010 3:50 AM EST
    John Smith The Great

    Mike, I hate to say this, but you are also starting to sound like a religious zealot...

    • 5 votes
    #1.19 - Fri Jan 15, 2010 4:17 AM EST
    amusedreader

    Mike were you born in a pool of satanic blood or something? Give them a break they are just trying to help people in need. Comparing them to the invasion of Iraq? Come on I don't think there is an oil mine in that orphanage. They are risking their own lives to assist other humans, have a heart.

    They have already been assisting that orphanage, for them it is more personal than it is to you. If you were funding a poor child and found out he was in hospital you would hopefully visit him (let's say he's close by).

    How are they attempting to force their belief on anyone? They are trying to help them not convert them.

    Under the disguise of some phoney religon/cause, they are farthering their personal agenda - phoney religion - vigilantes is what they are - and they should be arrested and prosecuted!

    ....Funny, how about you tell that to the orphans they are going to help. You sound like a ranting crack addict. And no I am not one of those people who believe in everything they see on TV, I am a very critical person and believe that most, if not all, governments are just corrupt and greedy (a lot of people also have that opinion).

    And they arm themselves for the same reason many other Americans arm themselves, for safety.

    • 10 votes
    #1.20 - Fri Jan 15, 2010 4:23 AM EST
    reseachplz

    Our emphasis is to witness, to be the hands and the feet of Jesus,”

    That's what they all do "if you except jeessuusss as your only god ......than we will give you food, water , clothes and send you to school.

    Pat Robinson and the likes of his followers are SATAN just in sheep clothing, always has been.

    • 3 votes
    #1.21 - Fri Jan 15, 2010 6:57 AM EST
    Amazonbaby

    Well, we will see how you respond when you are in trouble and one of those "satan's" are the only one offering you food, water and help. You make me laugh when you try to compare Robinson to the devil. It's his organization that is providing a large about of help in the USA and around the world. You are using this forum to express your personal bias about Christians. Get a life. The people in the article own the orphanage. They weren't making any requirements before. If your screen name means anything to you, perhaps you should take it to heart and do some research before you spout out of that hole under your nose.

    • 4 votes
    #1.22 - Fri Jan 15, 2010 7:20 AM EST
    John G.-299480

    This is a church group going into a country where 80% of the population lives in unimaginable poverty that has just been further devastated by a severe earthquake. And now almost half of the respondents to txmom32's commentary along with the title and story by MSNBC; to quote: "Armed, resolute, church group heads for Haiti" are either whining about resources that might be used to get this group out of trouble, the fact that they are taking machetes and knives along without regard to the fact that this is a tropical island where a machete could be very useful, and that a knife is little more than a carving tool, to someone who hasn't been well trained in its use as a defensive weapon. Which I doubt any of these good people have been so trained.

    The fact that these people are going over there to help people, especially children, who are in extreme need is,. or at least should be, considered very commendable in anybody's book. From that, I'd have to say to all of the naysayers in this blog: "Before you complain about these people, you should step up to the plate" and earn the right to complain. Quite frankly, I'm getting tired of people complaining about the things that faith based organizations do as a matter of compassion for others and in the support of moral values, which is to a large extent what is wrong with this country.

    txmom32 - My hat goes off to you for starting this commentary off on a positive note.

    • 8 votes
    #1.23 - Fri Jan 15, 2010 9:30 AM EST
    cmon-864012

    poor mike, must've been molested by a priest or something to hate so much.

    a lot of people talk the talk, but not many walk the walk. good luck, but still a little concerned over going in armed, can't they sing kumbaya (sp?) and everything will be fine?

      #1.24 - Fri Jan 15, 2010 9:38 AM EST
      Allen-968499

      I think it was a bit much for the author to put "armed" in the headline anyway. They took machetes! OMG! RUN! Yeah like those are worse than the millions of tons of debris, pick axes, shovels, crowbars, etc being used in the rescue.

      The State Department warned Americans not to visit Haiti and not to travel after dusk in the capital, Port-au-Prince. The church members aren’t afraid to use guns, but they weren’t willing to try and take any firearms across the border. Machetes and police lights would have to do.

      • 1 vote
      #1.25 - Fri Jan 15, 2010 10:19 AM EST
      Brian-595389

      SHAME SHAME SHAME ON MSNBC. The headline clearly IMPLIES and tries to insinuate these are far right wing, gun toting, religious extremists. When in fact, all they are doing is trying to help. The primary reason for the machete would be to cut down jungle foliage either for construction of temporary shelter or to gain access to the area they want to go too. Also to the poster above who dreamed up this gem,

      "That's what they all do "if you except jeessuusss as your only god ......than we will give you food, water , clothes and send you to school."

      I have never, ever in my life heard of a Christian organization withholding aid to non-believers. Please provide some basis for your claim.

      • 6 votes
      #1.26 - Fri Jan 15, 2010 10:24 AM EST
      Lloyd-812061

      You know, it's really too bad what has happened in Haiti. However, we have enough problems here. Why don't we let China and the UAE handle this. They seem to be teeming with money to loan. As far as the crew traveling to assist, I'm sure it does make them feel good, but it's a bad idea.They're going to end up needing help themselves, mark my words.

      The government in Haiti has been non existent at best. The aid aircraft can't even get into their podunk airport. What ever happened to all the money given to them for infrastructure upgrades? It went to the crooks running the country. Let China handle this.

      • 1 vote
      #1.27 - Fri Jan 15, 2010 10:57 AM EST
      explorerdog

      Your BS isn't cutting the foliage either! "Jonnie" the pet name for his machete remember "always sticks," does that mean sticks in clearing brush? I don't think so either. They say their forst job is to "WITNESS", these are their own words, what does that mean to you? Only the blind are fooled!

        #1.28 - Fri Jan 15, 2010 10:57 AM EST
        Sally-1456674

        I hang my head in shame at these comments. You know who you are, Lloyd and explore. Proud Americans to the end eh? And you wonder why other countries hate us, you need look no further than some of your comments.

        • 1 vote
        #1.29 - Fri Jan 15, 2010 11:40 AM EST
        aquatone

        The fact that they are going in to help the orphans doesn't change what complications they could cause, simply by being there under these circumstances. It doesn't matter that they are Christians, either way. They just shouldn't be doing this or risking the consequences, to both themselves and anyone else who may "stand in their way". Organized, large-scale relief efforts are underway. The children have food and water to last more than a week. These adventurers from PA shouldn't even be there taking up the space. Not yet, anyway.

          #1.30 - Fri Jan 15, 2010 11:44 AM EST
          MtMike-571674

          This thread is hilarious!

          The US Army is there in Haiti to assist - no communication in the country -

          The religous fanatics from Pennsylvania claim to know how much food/water the orphans have, these religous nutz don't even know if the orphans have been helped or are alive but all true believers KNOW that the nutz from Pennsylvania have a way of knowing, because the Pennsylvaniz nutz said they did.

          Logic and common sense - no need to apply for - These Pennsylvaniz nutz will be a added burden on the legal relief workers -

          Gawd from the Pennsylvaniz Religous Nutz view, has guided em.

          And these Pennsylvania nutz, religious zealots, shake all the other religous nutz out of the trees on the Vine. Hilarious!

          Bring out the straight jackets -

          Gawd has spoken to the RELIGIOUS NUTZ, gawd is all knowing/good, AND THE FOLLOWERS HAVE UNITED and GAWD would not sit by idly,

          THE ALL KNOWING GAWD CAUSED THE EARTHQUAKE and now wants all his faithful to rush down there so he can find his true followers/believers to give aid in a country with chaos - but arm yourself to defend your beliefs - where does one sign up?

          Maybe America can cleanse themselves of a lot of their own religous nutz "problems".

          Straight Jackets Pleeeze.

          • 2 votes
          #1.31 - Fri Jan 15, 2010 12:29 PM EST
          txmom32

          My prayers go out to each and every one of you heathens who believe in nothing more grand than your own ego's...yes, yes, yes I know you think I should save my prayers for someone who cares and yet you are the ones in need. What else would a faithful Christian do?

          So here is the deal. This community in Haiti, within three days of this massive event, placed 7,000 dead bodies into a mass grave. I find that unfathomable. That is an event to be viewed with awe. Not only did they have to witness and participate in this event but they had to endure under less than primitive circumstances to endure. They had no time and no where to go.

          This Church Family, that sponsored this Orphanage, are sitting back home viewing the devastation with a tremendous sense of responsibility and love for these children who are stuck out in the open world in what has never been a gentle society before the disaster.

          The children have food and water to last more than a week.

          They also have limited and exhausted protection. What match are these children and a few adults for a hungry mob who wants their food and water?

          It doesn't matter that they are Christians, either way. They just shouldn't be doing this or risking the consequences, to both themselves and anyone else who may "stand in their way".

          But it absolutely DOES matter that they are Christians. They honor these children as their own. In so doing they will make this journey in spite of the risk or consequences to themselves or to those who might kill those kids for what they posses...food and water.

          Those of you who cannot see the greater good that they attempt in the name of Christ are so very sadly limited by your limited scope of possibility.

          MtMike...I'm saying special prayers for you as yours must be a retched and lonely existence.

          God bless this small band of good men.

          • 2 votes
          #1.32 - Fri Jan 15, 2010 12:45 PM EST
          Lloyd-812061

          Not my own ego, my own Country. My country comes first and foremost. I'm always sickened at how these "poor" (run by criminals) countries burn our flags, drag our dead GI's through the streets, and basically preach hate for America, it's citizens, and what we stand for. As soon as something goes sideways, it's "USA needs to help! Where is USA?!!"

          Sorry, I feel for the children for sure. Maybe it's time other countries citizens stand up, AS OUR FOREFATHERS DID, and did something about it.

          • 2 votes
          #1.33 - Fri Jan 15, 2010 1:00 PM EST
          Lloyd-812061

          By the way Sally,did you serve in the Military also?

          • 1 vote
          #1.34 - Fri Jan 15, 2010 1:04 PM EST
          Lloyd-812061

          TXmom, I would think a good, sensible christian would look no further than his checkbook, and write a healthy (at least 10% of what you have available) to any number (Red Cross is a good start!) of charities who are used to doing this type of work.

          A self absorbed person (christian, whatever) will jump in with both feet and get in the way of real help. Sure looks good though. Really, I'm sure they have the best of intentions, but they are poorly equipped to do any real help there.

            #1.35 - Fri Jan 15, 2010 1:08 PM EST
            MR Ms

            reseach...

            Many many many churches including ours does not say we'll give you help if only you believe in Jesus...

            Everything is given regardless of belief, ...& we only preach by our example of caring, love, compassion and sacrifice..if someone asks why we are doing this, we tell them. If they have no interest, fine, we keep giving anyway.

            With your belief as stated, you are misssing so very very much..

            • 1 vote
            #1.36 - Fri Jan 15, 2010 1:09 PM EST
            Gus-393033

            What's missing is a greater understanding of what it means to put aside your own time and your own life and head into a grief stricken area to help. Christian workers that give a "cup of water in Jesus' name" are going against the grain of what a self-absorbed individual would do. They are rising above their personal comfort zone to help... and acknowledge that they would not probably do it unless Christ has put it in their heart to do so.

            All the glory goes to God... and I'm sure that they will not be passing the collection plate around.

            Those who are so judgemental on this discussion should leave the judgement to God. He looks on the heart... man looks on the outward appearence.

            • 2 votes
            #1.37 - Fri Jan 15, 2010 1:45 PM EST
            Lloyd-812061

            As I stated, I'm sure they have the very best of intentions. However, they are poorly equipped to truly help. Not judgemental, just a fact. "Good Intentions" won't stop a hungry mob.

            I truly hope they come out of this alive.

              #1.38 - Fri Jan 15, 2010 1:54 PM EST
              Gus-393033

              Lloyd....

              How is anyone completely equipped to help in a dire situation?

              With that said, one scripture comes to mind... "Greater love has no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends". John 15:13

              They feel called to help... and they are putting their feet to it. If someone gets hurt... or someone gets killed... it is worth it. That's the chance that they take.

              • 2 votes
              #1.39 - Fri Jan 15, 2010 2:49 PM EST
              Lloyd-812061

              The Red Cross, the Military, the UN peacekeepers. Those are the people that need to be there. Not a rag tag bunch of civilians without a clue. Yes, they are supporting an orphanage, that's wonderful, I applaud that. However, the whole bunch going and getting killed, tripped up (arrested or kidnapped, just two possibilities), or just go missing, that's not going to help anyone in the long run, is it?

              Honestly, would you let your son or daughter scramble there right now? Common sense has to kick in somewhere.

                #1.40 - Fri Jan 15, 2010 4:00 PM EST
                ARodg

                Is MtMike Eric Albert returning in disguise? No, can't be, no mention of "Zionist pigs" in his rants.

                • 1 vote
                #1.41 - Fri Jan 15, 2010 5:10 PM EST
                Reply
                Becky-573564

                God bless all of them; anyone would be lucky to have such kind, brave, determined gentlemen on their side. Please keep covering this story so that we will all know when they have completed their quest safely.

                • 14 votes
                #2 - Thu Jan 14, 2010 7:30 PM EST
                JAC28

                Yes Becky God Bless them all...peaceful journey.

                • 6 votes
                #2.1 - Thu Jan 14, 2010 7:45 PM EST
                MtMike-571674

                Whacked you all are!

                Do you not think this group could of informed the Red Cross or the groups that are in Haiti legally, to give aid to this school/kids they want to assist, giving the exact location?

                Chaos is what vigilantes cause.

                Arming a group of religious nutz, just sets up the scenario for violence.

                What religion says "arm yourself" to further your cause?

                Oh yeah the American Christian Version of WE ARE THE ONLY ONES THAT LIVE OUR LIVES CORRECTLY ON THE PLANET and all others are wrong!

                • 6 votes
                #2.2 - Fri Jan 15, 2010 12:08 AM EST
                jkenney1973

                Mike,

                You give atheists, such as myself, a bad name. In fact I would equate people like you to Pat Robertson, just on the other side of the fence.

                Would you like Christians to respect your right to not believe in God? Maybe you should start by respecting their right to believe. It's not up to you or me to make others believe as we do. Just as it's not up to Christians to make others believe. If you truly believe in freedom, you will live at let live.

                • 17 votes
                #2.3 - Fri Jan 15, 2010 12:57 AM EST
                goldminor

                Good reply jkenney.

                • 6 votes
                #2.4 - Fri Jan 15, 2010 1:35 AM EST
                MtMike-571674

                Stay in the US and carry a concealed weapon under the disguise of your religion and see what happens.

                Prison!

                These nutz and people who reinforce this behavior are forcing their beliefs on others.

                Let those that are trained and on site in Haiti do the saving - not some armed religous nutz!

                • 2 votes
                #2.5 - Fri Jan 15, 2010 2:09 AM EST
                Victor-779429

                Mike, the problem is no one is trained and on site. This is one of the worst breakdowns in civilization and infrastructure that we have seen to date. These people were trying to help Haitians before this calamity. They have a vested interest in the orphanage. I'm not exactly sure what you are interpreting as a "forcing their beliefs" on others or why you insist on using the phrase "believe like we do or we will kill you". There was nothing about these people or in this article that could make anyone logically infer that. And most states have laws that allow you to carry concealed weapons for whatever reason you choose. Hell, even David Koresh's weapons were legal. You seem a little uninformed and unbalanced. Or maybe you are just trying to get a rise out of people on newsvine.

                • 3 votes
                #2.6 - Fri Jan 15, 2010 2:25 AM EST
                MtMike-571674

                Victor - The US Army is there.

                These religous fanatics have no vested interest in going to Haiti, they are going to "witness", in the name of Gawd, did you not read the article.

                These nutz will be just a burden on the people setting up security and more mouths to take care of in a stressed catastrophe.

                It is one thing to be "legal" and carry concealed weapons at home, it is quite another to go in as vigalantes, violate laws, with your own "cause" arming yourself. That is just stupidity.

                If you think carrying weapons in the US is legal, you are wrong! Most Americans have lost that right - ask the NBA player who is now facing felony charges, or the NFL player(s) doing prison time.

                Religous stupidity! Someone says I am doing this in the name of Gawd, and all you nutz fall out of your trees, saying Gawd Bless!

                http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34867185/ns/world_news-haiti_earthquake

                • 3 votes
                #2.7 - Fri Jan 15, 2010 3:36 AM EST
                amusedreader

                These religous fanatics have no vested interest in going to Haiti, they are going to "witness", in the name of Gawd, did you not read the article.

                Did you not read the article? See below. Don't criticise others if you can't even stop yourself from making the same mistake.

                "The orphanage has food for maybe 10 more days," Crespo said. "They have rice, but not much else. Without this food, they're not going to make it."

                • 2 votes
                #2.8 - Fri Jan 15, 2010 4:48 AM EST
                MtMike-571674

                amused reader - talk about not being able to read.

                Pleeeeze your source for this quote has no source, remember no communication in Haiti, devastation -

                this is the nutz logic and these nutz have no idea how to get to where they want to go "to witness" or if these kids have already been aided!

                • 2 votes
                #2.9 - Fri Jan 15, 2010 5:29 AM EST
                Amazonbaby

                Mikey, your heart is so filled with hate. What God are you serving? Go back and reread the article. You are going on and on based on your imagination.

                Kenny, Pat Robinson's organization, Operation Blessing International has already been working in Haiti for years and before the earthquake had a huge container filled with food, water and medical supplies ready to go. They work with another charity there. OBI is so organized that if any major disaster occurs in the USA, they are often the first charity there to feed, water and offer shelter. Then, after, they are there rebuilding for free for months or even years as after Katrina. They partner with the Salvation Army as both have semi trucks that fit together and can provide up to 30K meals a day, store supplies and offer washing clothes, etc... OBI has warehouses all over the USA and other countries in case of disasters. OBI is stocking food banks all over the USA. They provide free medical and dental care all over the world/USA, along with orphanages, educational training, rebuilding entire villages, providing training/supplies for small businesses for widows, etc...Folks love to put down Dr. Robinson but I'm sure if you were hurting you would not turn down what they offered. They just celebrated their 50th anniversary. OBI is just one part of the huge multi international organization, not to mention prestigious University, international attornies firm in Washington DC, international news organization, television studios/show, producing movies, exercise equipment/nutritional products, etc... all this Dr. Robinson started and built up. He is a major success. People tend to not like him because he says what is on his mind. Now, a crazy person could not have built this type of empire if he was stupid. He is the CEO of a huge, successful company. He has a high IQ. He's just secure in himself and doesn't play the PC game. If he wasn't a Christian you would be falling all over yourself about him and how smart he was if what he was saying didn't have a Christian angle. And, he had a successful career as an attorney/stock market broker before he quit and started a ministry. He gave up a comfy life to live in the ghetto to start a ministry. He didn't do so bad.

                • 3 votes
                #2.10 - Fri Jan 15, 2010 5:46 AM EST
                lilyandersenDeleted
                Allen-968499

                MtMike-571674

                Stay in the US and carry a concealed weapon under the disguise of your religion and see what happens.

                Prison!

                So all of the yard workers who have a machete in their vehicle are evil zealots to you? If this story had been about an atheist group that went in with machetes, the right wouldn't be screaming they were all on a murdering rampage because they don't have the "thou shalt not kill" commandment.

                  #2.12 - Fri Jan 15, 2010 10:36 AM EST
                  explorerdog

                  They would also be honest about why they have it and why they are there.

                    #2.13 - Fri Jan 15, 2010 11:04 AM EST
                    Lloyd-812061

                    Maybe this was Gods way of cleansing an out of control country which no other country can seem to help. Maybe God said "too many hungry folks, and not enough good to support them. I give you............an earthquake".

                    Plausible? Gods will? Just curious.

                    • 1 vote
                    #2.14 - Fri Jan 15, 2010 11:20 AM EST
                    Sally-1456674

                    Stay in the US and carry a concealed weapon under the disguise of your religion and see what happens.

                    Prison!

                    Where do you live MtMike? My florist carrys a concealed weapon on a daily basis. And it's legal.

                    • 1 vote
                    #2.15 - Fri Jan 15, 2010 11:43 AM EST
                    aquatone

                    I would say that Amazonbaby's heart is filled with hate, toward anyone trying to use common sense and logic in this thread.

                    Oh well. It's a free country.

                    • 1 vote
                    #2.16 - Fri Jan 15, 2010 11:47 AM EST
                    Stewart Piddas

                    With all of the useless drivel and rantings, it appears that Mikey forgot his medication today. In order to communicate effectively, one must understand the words used, and the differences between "legal" & "lawful", and "right" and "privilege."

                    If you think carrying weapons in the US is legal, you are wrong! Most Americans have lost that right - ask the NBA player who is now facing felony charges, or the NFL player(s) doing prison time.

                    It is both legal (with a license) and Lawful via State and federal Constitutionals to carry weapons. Knowing and teaching the difference is the only thing lacking. Understanding that most Statutes & Ordinances may be legal, but can be unlawful/unconstitutional is key to winning any case. And litigation is the only way to nullify the effects of the unlawful laws.

                    Rights are inherent to an individual and/or group and can only be suppressed by the permission or lack of resolve of that individual or group. A privilege is "granted" (via a license or permit) by a government and can be taken away at its discretion. Whether anyone likes it or not, the US Supreme Court has recently upheld that the "Right" to bear arms is an "Individual Right" and not a privilege. This means that most of the laws for "regulatory purposes" are "legal" yet "unlawful", and up to the People to litigate in order to correct them. These are the facts. Ranting like a little child will not change them.

                    The only thing that stopped people from leaving New Orleans after hurricane Katrina was a group of US soldiers placed on the bridge leaving town. Not one person had the intestinal fortitude to cross that bridge to freedom. As long as the first priority of these people going to help is NOT proselytizing, they are helping others cross that bridge to freedom.

                    Whether it is this group dealing with the"authorities" in Haiti, or us dealing with the federal, State and/or local governments here, my question to anyone is, "What are you doing to change and fix the system?"

                    C'ya 'round the 'vine...

                    • 1 vote
                    #2.17 - Fri Jan 15, 2010 11:56 AM EST
                    Reply
                    ExPat-709389

                    If they need weapons does that mean god wont back them up? Was it satan that caused the earthquake? Obviously gods grand plan was to do what was done yes? im just trying to understand the mentality or lack of one !

                    • 2 votes
                    Reply#3 - Thu Jan 14, 2010 8:19 PM EST
                    Patriot1-935417

                    ExPat - God provided these men with courage, initiative, strong bodies and willing minds, an SUV and an AK47. God expects you to use your resources - all of them. We don't know how the AK will be used, or not. It seems you are assuming the worst. It may be used to secure the next meal or a wild animal intent on making them it's next meal.

                    • 1 vote
                    #3.1 - Thu Jan 14, 2010 10:58 PM EST
                    Kat51

                    Too bad he didn't provide them with sense. Going in there all gung ho with probably no French speaking persons, they will find themselves arrested for being in the wrong. Letting the military know they are bringing weapons? Oh boy, big brave ones, aren't they?

                    • 2 votes
                    #3.2 - Fri Jan 15, 2010 1:58 AM EST
                    Amazonbaby

                    Kat, Go back and reread the article. You obviously missed many important points.

                    • 2 votes
                    #3.3 - Fri Jan 15, 2010 4:33 AM EST
                    amusedreader

                    Kat, they have a doctor who can translate for them. Reread the article. And yes they are hell brave going into a country of that situation trying to help others. I for one highly respect their courage to assist others instead of sitting on their ass. What they don't need are people dragging them down by saying you can't do anything to help them stop trying and sit down.

                    • 2 votes
                    #3.4 - Fri Jan 15, 2010 4:45 AM EST
                    Amazonbaby

                    Expat, We are just trying to understand your mentality.

                      #3.5 - Fri Jan 15, 2010 7:26 AM EST
                      anna_tx

                      Actually these people are supporting an orphanage in Haiti financially so they have good reason to be there. All communications are broken down.

                        #3.6 - Fri Jan 15, 2010 8:00 AM EST
                        Allen-968499

                        Patriot1-935417

                        We don't know how the AK will be used, or not.

                        Actually, we do. It's in the article. They weren't willing to take firearms across the border. They took machetes.

                        • 2 votes
                        #3.7 - Fri Jan 15, 2010 10:39 AM EST
                        explorerdog

                        One that "sticks", for those perhaps that respond poorly to their witnessing

                          #3.8 - Fri Jan 15, 2010 11:09 AM EST
                          Harleyman5

                          Just wondering who dreamed up the AK47, I went back and reread the article and all I saw was the machete and some hunting knives. ""The church members aren’t afraid to use guns, but they weren’t willing to try and take any firearms across the border. Machetes and police lights would have to do. "How many of you got a knife?" mission director Ramon Crespo asked as the workers finished tying down the two stories of supplies: 25 gallons of gasoline, sacks of potatoes, vegetable oil, bananas.He then handed out hunting knives like boarding passes as the others clambered into the SUV. But he held onto “Johnny,” his 10-inch serrated knife. “If you throw this, it nearly always sticks,” he said." That just shows how easy it is to get false info started.

                            #3.9 - Fri Jan 15, 2010 11:38 AM EST
                            aquatone

                            I'm still trying to understand the mentality of anyone who thinks unprepared Pennsylvanians should be trying something as ill-advised as this, now.

                              #3.10 - Fri Jan 15, 2010 11:49 AM EST
                              lilbear68

                              the christians are forgetting the 1st commandment 'never bring a knife to a gunfight' lol

                              • 2 votes
                              #3.11 - Fri Jan 15, 2010 11:58 AM EST
                              Reply
                              Josh-304951

                              They claim they are going there to witness. Witness to what? These people need food, water, and medical care. What they do NOT need is superstitious dribble by extraordinarily misguided religious missionaries.

                              "If Jesus were here, what would he do? I don't think he would be in America sitting and watching the television. If he had a way to get to Port-au Prince, he would get here. He would be a first-responder."

                              That statement cannot be as ridiculous as it sounds. If Jesus did exist, and if he was/is the son of an omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent deity, he would have KNOWN it was going to happen and he would already KNOW how he would get there and he would be GUILTY of having maliciously inflicted this carnage on the innocent. If he didn't take a moment to halt the violent forces of nature, what makes anyone think he'll show up to clean up? Come on! How can people believe this nonsense?

                              • 5 votes
                              Reply#4 - Thu Jan 14, 2010 8:23 PM EST
                              YepYeah

                              Why so angry?

                              They believe in God, so what? They're going there to help, which is what matters, and says a lot about themselves.

                              I think it's insecure people who bring their own point of view about religion, a superior entity, etc, in order to discredit people who are actually doing something good.

                              • 12 votes
                              #4.1 - Thu Jan 14, 2010 9:18 PM EST
                              Patriot1-935417

                              Josh - If you have better intentions and methods, why aren't you on a plane to Haiti?

                              It's so easy to criticize, so difficult to walk the talk.

                              • 4 votes
                              #4.2 - Thu Jan 14, 2010 11:01 PM EST
                              Josh-304951

                              "Why so angry? They believe in God, so what? They're going there to help, which is what matters, and says a lot about themselves." -YepYeah

                              It isn't anger, YepYeah, it's disgust. The victims do not need superstition and dogma, they need food, water, medicine.

                              "Our emphasis is to witness, to be the hands and the feet of Jesus," said the 50-year-old senior pastor.

                              Does proselytizing sound like genuine help to you? I find it incredible that you accuse me of bringing my "..own point of view about religion.." to this discussion when the entire story is about religious missionaries going to the scene of a natural disaster with the explicit intent of proselytizing.

                              Patriot- My intention (as I have already done) is to make a specific donation to the American Red Cross to help buy food and medicine for the victims; you can't eat dogma.

                              • 3 votes
                              #4.3 - Fri Jan 15, 2010 12:44 AM EST
                              drbacon

                              Josh. You sell Jesus short. If He knew it were going to happen He could have stopped it if He wanted to. The fact that He didn't shows that He probably wouldn't have gone there to help unless some of the faithful asked Him to. Jesus would have put the situation a little more delicate than this but in modern vernacular it would be something like "Sh!t happens".

                                #4.4 - Fri Jan 15, 2010 3:41 AM EST
                                Amazonbaby

                                Josh, Go back and reread the article. And, you don't understand how he is using the term, "witnessing". He is talking about the act of bring the food and medical supplies to their orphanage. Their churches have been working in Haiti for years, also digging wells, providing medical care, etc... along with providing care for orphans. And, if they do it through their religion, what's wrong with that? Quit using this forum as a sounding board for your personal bias against Christians. Or, maybe you just need some attention.

                                Go to the church's website and see all that they do around the world and in their local area. The link is with the church's name in the article. They have videos of their mission trips and that recent one to Haiti is available, too.

                                • 1 vote
                                #4.5 - Fri Jan 15, 2010 4:38 AM EST
                                amusedreader

                                These people need food, water, and medical care. What they do NOT need is superstitious dribble by extraordinarily misguided religious missionaries.

                                Those extraordinarily misguided religious missionaries are delivering food. See below, straight from the article. Next time soften your heart.

                                "The orphanage has food for maybe 10 more days," Crespo said. "They have rice, but not much else. Without this food, they're not going to make it."

                                • 2 votes
                                #4.6 - Fri Jan 15, 2010 4:41 AM EST
                                Brammers

                                From my understanding of the scriptures Jesus would not have done anything physically. He would have persuaded other people to have done the manual stuff. His attitude to the situation may have been surprising. When expensive perfumes were being applied to his feet he explained that there will always be poor people no matter what. So @!$%# happens.

                                  #4.7 - Fri Jan 15, 2010 5:54 AM EST
                                  Amazonbaby

                                  Amusedreader, I think people stop reading when they see the word, "christian". When I read the comments here, it seems that they don't read the entire article before they start ranting and raving. It seems you picked up on that, too.

                                  • 1 vote
                                  #4.8 - Fri Jan 15, 2010 5:54 AM EST
                                  aquatone

                                  I have highlighted several instances where you, amazonbaby, have not read (or comprehended) what was stated in the article. Perhaps you should take some of your own advice. Just a thought.

                                    #4.9 - Fri Jan 15, 2010 11:51 AM EST
                                    Lloyd-812061

                                    I certainly hope they get out of there alive.

                                      #4.10 - Fri Jan 15, 2010 1:28 PM EST
                                      Reply
                                      aquatone

                                      I know these people are only trying to help some desperate kids, but I suspect they will end up doing far more harm than good. They sound very brave, but not very well prepared for what they are really likely to encounter. I hope they succeed in helping the kids, but this is still a very ill-advised journey they are undertaking, with a high risk of failure, or worse. Common sense, and the better good of all the people of Haiti, needs to be factored into the equation at some point. They have been advised of the situation that currently exists at the border, and have decided that the rules just don't apply to them. They take God's council, but not the council of the people actually there on the ground in Haiti. Not a very good idea, IMO.

                                      They have guts, for sure. I'll give 'em that much.

                                      • 4 votes
                                      Reply#5 - Thu Jan 14, 2010 8:28 PM EST
                                      Patriot1-935417

                                      Better to have tried and failed, than to have never tried.

                                      • 2 votes
                                      #5.1 - Thu Jan 14, 2010 11:02 PM EST
                                      aquatone

                                      Not really, not if these people end up causing even more trouble than currently exists. They are renting a truck that could be used by people who are more familiar with those surroundings, for instance. It was the last one available for rent.

                                      That is the crux of what I've been trying to say here. The authorities have their hands full as it is. They don't need or want this kind of "help".

                                      • 4 votes
                                      #5.2 - Fri Jan 15, 2010 12:26 AM EST
                                      Amazonbaby

                                      Aquatone, Go back and reread the article. If anyone is prepared and connected for this trip, this group is. Go ahead and reread the article.

                                        #5.3 - Fri Jan 15, 2010 4:40 AM EST
                                        aquatone

                                        This is the third time I've checked the article for any updates. These people aren't properly prepared and are likely to do much more harm than good. As I said earlier, I hope they can accomplish their mission but they really have no idea what they are doing, or getting into. I hope they make it out alive, and I hope the orphans are o.k. too, but this effort, while well-intentioned, is extremely ill-advised considering all of the existing circumstances. That is my sincere opinion after reading the entire article multiple times now.

                                        I don't see how any intelligent person could read the article and still think these people from Pennsylvania are ready to deal with a disaster in a foreign land, of shockingly immense proportions. If you disagree with me, you are wrong, whether or not these folks are eventually successful.

                                          #5.4 - Fri Jan 15, 2010 10:42 AM EST
                                          Allen-968499

                                          aquatone

                                          Not really, not if these people end up causing even more trouble than currently exists. They are renting a truck that could be used by people who are more familiar with those surroundings, for instance. It was the last one available for rent.

                                          For someone with a hate for people who believe in an all-knowing God, you sure seem to think you have the same ability. So, you've seen the future and know they will cause trouble how? A group on a mission to help the desperate took a truck when the next person who showed up to rent it would have been better? As opposed to news crews with cameras or politicians wanting to be seen visiting a disaster area?

                                          I think you need to rethink the definition of zealot and look in the mirror.

                                          • 1 vote
                                          #5.5 - Fri Jan 15, 2010 10:46 AM EST
                                          ornery dem

                                          When even the U. S. military and other international missions are hesitant to take a truck full of water into an area because of the possibility of riots breaking out -- and who would blame anyone at this point? -- to think they can get an SUV full of food to a specific area and keep those supplies safe for a handful of kids -- doesn't that smack just a little of hubris?

                                          Instead of hiring a vehicle where there are no roads, and taking a few pounds of supplies through a country where everyone is by now crazy for water and food, why not hook up with a regular relief organization? How will they defend their actions of passing by thousands, thousands, thousands of people in dire need of relief to cater to the few they might -- possibly -- reach some day? Why is no one airlifting supplies by helicopter to all communities, dropping massive bundles of bottled water, blankets, food, medical supplies, sat phones? Why do they not try something innovative like that? If the next news story is how these guys were slaughtered along the road, how will that help anyone?

                                          These guys have an ideal, which is great, but considering all of the "most least" they will ignore in their single-minded mission -- will they truly chop up a mother attacking them for a bottle of water on their way? -- it seems a misguided ideal at best.

                                          • 1 vote
                                          #5.6 - Fri Jan 15, 2010 10:59 AM EST
                                          aquatone

                                          That's funny, I don't think I've said a single thing about their religious beliefs, either way. I did agree with someone else who questioned how certain believers could be considered different then terrorists, but that was a general issue of "religious logic" and was not an attack on these particular people, or I would not have stated that I agreed.

                                          Personally, I'm glad so many people are believers, even though I'm not one of them. If people think they need a set of rules in order to live a decent life, they are probably right. I'll be glad to defer to their own judgment on that, believe me. Better to not take any chances.

                                          It's funny how believers so often assume that anyone who is NOT overtly and obviously religious must be against those that are. I could care less either way. I just wish certain people who are motivated in various ways by their religion, would also allow their brains to engage, along with their hearts.

                                            #5.7 - Fri Jan 15, 2010 12:02 PM EST
                                            bsbfankaren

                                            Laos Deo, "these people"? Who would "these people" be, exactly? Human beings without food or water? Who have lost loved one's and are powerless to help themselves? Who don't have a television or even a radio to let them know that help is on the way, and that the world is doing everything they can to bring them the help that they need?

                                            Can you for one moment imagine hearing your own child's plea's for help, but being unable to reach him or her? Can you imagine being a child and looking at the dead bodies of your parents and wondering who will care for you? Fortunately for you and I, there is a strong possibility that we will never have to feel such pain in our lives.

                                            Or perhaps you are talking about the "these people" headed by Rush Limbaugh and Pat Robertson, who do for no onewithout wondering what is in it for them first, but can sit around finding fault and telling people not to help those that are far, far less fortunate?

                                            Tell you what. I will take the "these people" that are in need, before those that can't see past their own needs!

                                              #5.8 - Fri Jan 15, 2010 2:57 PM EST
                                              goldminor

                                              Aquatone is correct in his assessment on their being ill-equipped. If you look at the photo of the vehicle, notice how heavy the load appears to be; and that is with all of them standing outside the vehicle. Plus the size of the vehicle limits the supplies, a larger box van truck would have been more appropriate. The real test they will face will be getting through the crowds, to safely deliver the food and medicine. I hope they are successful. It is a risky undertaking.

                                                #5.9 - Fri Jan 15, 2010 3:53 PM EST
                                                Lloyd-812061

                                                Nobody seems to have noticed, but what about the families that these guys abandoned, I mean, left behind in Pa.? Are they ready to carry on with one parent? I would be curious as to the marital/family make up of these volunteers. Will the church see to it that the offspring of these people are cared for? Just curious.

                                                  #5.10 - Fri Jan 15, 2010 4:19 PM EST
                                                  Reply
                                                  Niki-440757

                                                  If you shake the tree enough and all the nuts will fall out.

                                                  • 2 votes
                                                  Reply#6 - Thu Jan 14, 2010 8:35 PM EST
                                                  JohnOliviaNewton

                                                  And you just did

                                                  • 3 votes
                                                  #6.1 - Thu Jan 14, 2010 10:56 PM EST
                                                  Reply
                                                  Dan Brown-585027

                                                  Haiti has plenty of weapons. Leave those home or in the DR, save space for what they really need. The Haitians lack clean water, water purifying devices, medical supplies, food and wise, experienced individuals to deliver them. Please thank these people for their generosity, then transfer their materials to a competent party for transport to the orphanage. I have worked in Haiti 3 years, one doesn't need guns or machetes. You need skills, and enough common sense and command of French or Creole to understand what is going on around you.

                                                  • 2 votes
                                                  Reply#7 - Thu Jan 14, 2010 8:36 PM EST
                                                  There They Go Again

                                                  If they're not armed, the stuff won't get to the kids who need it. Law and order are breaking down all around. All the good will in the world isn't worth as much as armed force, conspicuously displayed. If they are obviously armed, the chances are better that they won't be attacked.

                                                  Mt. Mike

                                                  If they waited around to get the proper papers and a military escort, the kids they are trying to help would be dead when they got there. I don't have much use for religion but they are trying to help. Maybe it won't work but at least they're trying.

                                                  • 6 votes
                                                  #7.1 - Thu Jan 14, 2010 8:57 PM EST
                                                  Dan Brown-585027

                                                  I understand their passion. Their heart may be in the right place. And so is yours. But if these black men roll into that chaos with arms conspicuously displayed as you suggest, they will be cut down by predominately South American UN troops (and perhaps US soldiers if they are in there already) since they may not distinguish between clueless American missionaries and the armed Haitian gangs they have been battling off and on for five years until it is too late.

                                                  I know from experience that going in unarmed entails risk, but going in armed is far more dangerous and foolish. Waving machetes at armored personnel carriers with mounted heavy machine guns is not going to get them through to the orphanage. Calm, sane, serious demeanor and facility in the languages of the UN troops and Haitians they meet will.

                                                  • 2 votes
                                                  #7.2 - Thu Jan 14, 2010 9:20 PM EST
                                                  Allen-968499

                                                  Dan Brown-585027

                                                  Waving machetes at armored personnel carriers with mounted heavy machine guns is not going to get them through to the orphanage.

                                                  Why do you think they would even do that? Are the APCs blocking aid? If so, that should be a news story.

                                                  • 1 vote
                                                  #7.3 - Fri Jan 15, 2010 10:48 AM EST
                                                  bsbfankaren

                                                  Dan, if you read the article carefully you will see that they are not going to "conspicuously" display their knives, but have them for protection in case the need arises.

                                                  And while I don't know if this is important, I looked at the men pictured, and I could not tell if they were simply "black men" or if this was a mission of men of various races.

                                                  Lastly, please don't assume that because these men are coming from New Jersey that they are "clueless". They have ample documentation if needed, as well as someone who speaks the language and knows both the terrain, and the types of people they are likely to meet up with on the way to the orphanages.

                                                  Wait and see. These men will meet with some resistance, but I believe they will complete their task. Remember, you are on the outside looking into an article, and neither you nor I have ever actually talk to these men, but to me they sound like they have good heads on their shoulder's and are not walking into this situation blindly.

                                                    #7.4 - Fri Jan 15, 2010 3:27 PM EST
                                                    Reply
                                                    jimbo-944865

                                                    Somebody tell me which religion these people claim to represent.

                                                    Surely not christianity...Jesus was the "Prince of Peace". I don't remember his carrying heat to make a point.

                                                    Gandhi was right. Christians are not very much like their Jesus.

                                                    • 4 votes
                                                    Reply#8 - Thu Jan 14, 2010 9:01 PM EST
                                                    Mister Joshua

                                                    The weapons are necessary for protection against bandits and thieves. Haiti is a poor country with plenty of desperate people that would be willing to rob and murder these people.

                                                    • 3 votes
                                                    #8.1 - Thu Jan 14, 2010 9:06 PM EST
                                                    Laos Deo

                                                    They adopted VooDoo as the official religion in 2003. Starting to see the revelations in all of this?

                                                    • 4 votes
                                                    #8.2 - Thu Jan 14, 2010 9:09 PM EST
                                                    goldminor

                                                    Way to much space is used in this article talking about the 'weapons' they will bring. They aren't carrying in bazookas and machineguns. A knife is a good tool to have in many places. I hope they find the children of their mission in good health. One might question their judgement in making this journey, but their motives are right on.

                                                    • 7 votes
                                                    #8.3 - Thu Jan 14, 2010 9:14 PM EST
                                                    No gun

                                                    jimbo-944865 You need to work on your memory....... and gandhi was a moron.

                                                    King James Bible
                                                    Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

                                                    Luke 22:36

                                                    • 1 vote
                                                    #8.4 - Thu Jan 14, 2010 10:37 PM EST
                                                    No gun

                                                    Sorry, I take that back, gandhi was probably not a moron, he possibly was a nice guy IDK.

                                                    • 1 vote
                                                    #8.5 - Thu Jan 14, 2010 10:43 PM EST
                                                    Patriot1-935417

                                                    Gandhi is noted as one of the world's GREATEST leaders. I know it is difficult for anyone who voted for Obama to recognize the characteristics of leadership, so I felt compelled to point out his stature.

                                                    • 4 votes
                                                    #8.6 - Thu Jan 14, 2010 11:05 PM EST
                                                    explorerdog

                                                    Instaed of the weapons why don't they pray? WWJD probably slap them with another earthquake for not worshiping the correct imaginary guy. Oh yeah witnessing is not taking food to th orphans it is taking the word to uh vulnerable. I can call nuclear radiation fireflies in a can, but it does not make it so.

                                                      #8.7 - Fri Jan 15, 2010 12:08 PM EST
                                                      Reply
                                                      Mister Joshua

                                                      What is wrong with the people on this seed that are criticizing these people? How bitter and heartless must you be to mock people that are trying to help orphans? Pathetic!

                                                      • 9 votes
                                                      Reply#9 - Thu Jan 14, 2010 9:03 PM EST
                                                      aquatone

                                                      We're not all bitter and heartless. This is supposed to be a discussion, not some one-way praise fest.

                                                      Personally, I'm just an advocate of common sense; how about you? I hope these people can help the orphans, and I wish them no ill will. But they appeared to lament the fact that they can't take guns into a desperate country that they know very little about. It just seems as if they are lacking in several departments, including permission from the authorities to enter a country under severe emergency conditions, complete with looting and other crime. They may find themselves in some serious trouble and in need of their own help when it just can't be spared. And they may not even find be able to find the orphanage, based on an earlier story.

                                                      There is nothing to suggest these kids aren't at least as "well off" as the average Haitian is right now. Organized help efforts may well reach the kids even long before these well-intentioned rescuers show up. It just isn't worth the trouble it could cause.

                                                      I don't think that makes me bitter and heartless. I'm just trying to use my head first.

                                                      • 5 votes
                                                      #9.1 - Thu Jan 14, 2010 9:36 PM EST
                                                      Amazonbaby

                                                      Aquatone, go back and reread the article. There is no authorities to ask permission from. They were offered a free plane trip into the city and refused so they could bring food, gas and medical supplies. They have connections from two embassies and a business card from someone connected. Some of them speak multiple languages of the area. Plus, this isn't their "first rodeo" in Haiti. They have been there many, many times - just a few months ago. They do more work in Haiti than the orphanage. In the article, the church's name,is a link to their website. You can see the work they are doing all around the world and in their local area in the US. Don't forget that news articles are written to get your attention.

                                                      • 1 vote
                                                      #9.2 - Fri Jan 15, 2010 4:47 AM EST
                                                      aquatone

                                                      I can maybe believe that they may be prepared for the kinds of problems that Haiti presents under normal circumstances. But not now. I believe they are severely underestimating just how dire the situation is down there. They are apparently avoiding official border crossing points to avoid being turned back. Hmmm, by whom I wonder? Perhaps by the Dominican "authorities"? I hear our military will take over the border crossings soon; do you think they would let these people in?

                                                      Individual missions such as this one have been discouraged. I'm not sure what else you need to read in order to come to the conclusion that these people are not acting in the best interests of anyone involved, possibly including the orphans themselves. To say they somehow have "permission" to be there is simply ridiculous. I'm sorry but it's true. They have a guy who met a guy who has a friend that works at the embassy. They have that guy's business card. Well, that should smooth out EVERYTHING!

                                                      Apparently the article did not get your own, full, attention.

                                                        #9.3 - Fri Jan 15, 2010 11:13 AM EST
                                                        Sally-1456674

                                                        Aqua, why do you care and what expertise do you have to sit back in front of your computer and explain why everyone elses plans are wrong and you are right? When does your plane for Haiti leave? Why aren't you already there sorting this mess out? With your expertise you should be square in the middle of it all.

                                                          #9.4 - Fri Jan 15, 2010 11:53 AM EST
                                                          aquatone

                                                          Like all Americans, aside from those associated with organized relief efforts, I have been asked to stay away. So I'm not planning on going anytime soon. I have managed to make a small donation, instead.

                                                            #9.5 - Fri Jan 15, 2010 12:05 PM EST
                                                            Lloyd-812061

                                                            Sally- it's just that them going there the way they did was a bad idea, I don't care if they're christians or not.

                                                              #9.6 - Fri Jan 15, 2010 4:32 PM EST
                                                              Lloyd-812061

                                                              Just got word a friend of mine in Florida is on her way there to help. Hopefully, she'll get through. Travel is spotty at best. She's one who should be there, along with her rescue/cadaver dog. That's the kind of people that need to be there.

                                                                #9.7 - Fri Jan 15, 2010 4:34 PM EST
                                                                Reply
                                                                Laos Deo

                                                                Pagans. 2003 they made Voodoo their official religion. God has punish them severely it appears.

                                                                Signs of no visible government. Not surprised are you? Look at the history of this place. Thousands scramble to the USA as refugees some years back. They too got on all the government entitlements we hard working Americans are still paying for. BS. Sorry to sound so hard about this but that's just the way I see it. God help me understand. Give me strength and compassion.

                                                                • 7 votes
                                                                Reply#10 - Thu Jan 14, 2010 9:08 PM EST
                                                                sncknbrg

                                                                The people who think that God punishes children with earthquakes are of the same ilk as those who think that God wants them to strap a bomb on their a$$ and blow up innocents.

                                                                • 5 votes
                                                                #10.1 - Thu Jan 14, 2010 9:12 PM EST
                                                                MrsBeaDeleted
                                                                jimbo-944865

                                                                So they adopted Voodou...your point?

                                                                • 1 vote
                                                                #10.3 - Thu Jan 14, 2010 9:25 PM EST
                                                                Ace-312731

                                                                Maybe they should have taken dolls and pins in place of machetes. If they want to risk it all to help an orphanage,more power to them.

                                                                • 2 votes
                                                                #10.4 - Thu Jan 14, 2010 9:54 PM EST
                                                                aquatone

                                                                Excellent post, sncknbrg.

                                                                  #10.5 - Fri Jan 15, 2010 12:29 AM EST
                                                                  Amazonbaby

                                                                  snackberg, Moslems' reasons for blowing themself up if very selfish. It's the only way they feel they will be assured they will go to paradise and receive their 72 virgins, and they will be respected as a martyer in the community. It's not because they feel God tells them to. Usually, it is the lazy mullah who is telling them to blow themselves up. There is no connection in philosopy as to why a Christian unselfishly gives of their time and money for others with no expectations back. This time on earth was designed so all humans have a personal choice if they want to believe in God or not. Just as their actions are a personal choice, too. I'm sure you wouldn't like to be lumped to together with others that maybe you have some connection to but don't believe the same as. So, don't assume that all Christians are the same. No one is perfect,including Christians. Look in the mirror first before you start putting others down. Same to you, AuntBea. Stop using this forum as your personal forum for expressing your hate towards Christians.

                                                                  • 1 vote
                                                                  #10.6 - Fri Jan 15, 2010 4:57 AM EST
                                                                  explorerdog

                                                                  You have no problem holding them up high, those selfless entities. Most of these selfless ones are convinced that the deed is being recorded in the good part of the book, so for you to pretend that this is somehow a totally benevolent action, get a grip, these are their version of brownie points. MRSBEA right on .
                                                                  I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours. -Stephen Henry Roberts

                                                                    #10.7 - Fri Jan 15, 2010 12:18 PM EST
                                                                    Reply
                                                                    MrsBeaDeleted
                                                                    Laos Deo

                                                                    You don't see Jesse Jackson and company jumping on an airplane??? Yet.

                                                                    • 7 votes
                                                                    Reply#12 - Thu Jan 14, 2010 9:13 PM EST
                                                                    Crystal-569996

                                                                    He's waiting until all the dirty work is done and the money comes in!

                                                                    • 9 votes
                                                                    #12.1 - Thu Jan 14, 2010 9:20 PM EST
                                                                    MrsBeaDeleted
                                                                    Sally-1456674

                                                                    Bravo MrsBea. What I am wondering is why are all the "in charge" aid people over there sitting around wringing their hands trying to "figure out" how to get the aid that is ALREADY there to the people 72 hours later? They have a barage of helicopters there. Why are they not air dropping this stuff instead of sitting around planning logistics? That is not a new concept. We have air dropped aid to many places before. They are creating a worse situation by fretting over logistics and leaving the people with nothing for so long than would have had to have been if they had just started dropping water and food from the very beginning.

                                                                      #12.3 - Fri Jan 15, 2010 12:03 PM EST
                                                                      Lloyd-812061

                                                                      What I can do I will do though and it won't be sitting at a computer with snide, malicious, ignorant comments

                                                                      Venom in that one boy. "He who lives in glass house,

                                                                      should not whack off in living room"

                                                                      Old saying

                                                                        #12.4 - Fri Jan 15, 2010 5:09 PM EST
                                                                        Reply
                                                                        Crystal-569996

                                                                        From the MSN homepage "how to help" it says to text Haiti to 90999 and they will add a $10.00 charge to your phone bill to donate. Do that instead of armchair aid! It works, they will text you back to verify. New Orleans, you are off the dole, you've had time to get your stuff together, now these people need help x 5000.

                                                                        • 1 vote
                                                                        Reply#13 - Thu Jan 14, 2010 9:17 PM EST
                                                                        Reply
                                                                        Treadlightly

                                                                        I have a feeling that these guys are going to make it. When you are doing the right thing doors just open for you. People intuitively know when you have good intentions and help you along the way. This IS a feel good story.

                                                                        • 3 votes
                                                                        Reply#14 - Thu Jan 14, 2010 9:21 PM EST
                                                                        Amazonbaby

                                                                        You can go to the article and click on the name of the church. It's a link to their website. You can follow their trip there. Report back to us.

                                                                          #14.1 - Fri Jan 15, 2010 5:08 AM EST
                                                                          Reply
                                                                          John Lawrence-371945

                                                                          God speed these men on their journey to help the Children in this orphanage!

                                                                          For those who try a knock on these men..................

                                                                          Ask yourselves something.............................................

                                                                          Who feeds more people than Christian ministries?

                                                                          WHo clothes more people than Christian ministries?

                                                                          The answer is nobody!

                                                                          The truth is that truw Christian faith urges us to give our time, talent, and money to those in need.

                                                                          The truth is that their have been those who have distorted the Christian faith.

                                                                          They have said turn or die.

                                                                          The truth is that the number who have done such pails to the number of CHristians who have died for their faith.

                                                                          The truth is more CHristians have died for their faith in the last century than died in the holocaust.

                                                                          • 7 votes
                                                                          Reply#15 - Thu Jan 14, 2010 9:25 PM EST
                                                                          jimbo-944865

                                                                          'The truth is more CHristians have died for their faith than died in the holocaust"

                                                                          Helluva theory... Got any facts to backup that ridiculous statement? Proof please.

                                                                          • 1 vote
                                                                          #15.1 - Thu Jan 14, 2010 9:29 PM EST
                                                                          John Lawrence-371945

                                                                          Here are some links.....

                                                                          http://www.bereanpublishers.com/Persecution_of_Christians/a_new_century_of_martyrs.htm

                                                                          http://www.hotchristianity.com/

                                                                          http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/world/asia-pacific/3993857.stm

                                                                          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Christians

                                                                          http://www.christiantoday.com/article/more.christians.killed.in.india.violence/21306.htm

                                                                          http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/world-news/holy-war-strikes-in-india-35-christians-killed-and-50000-forced-from-their-homes-13996113.html

                                                                          http://www.christianpost.com/article/20090801/officials-6-pakistani-christians-killed-by-muslim-extremists/index.html

                                                                          DO you need more?

                                                                          • 6 votes
                                                                          #15.2 - Thu Jan 14, 2010 9:46 PM EST
                                                                          John Lawrence-371945

                                                                          Here are more links......

                                                                          http://www.ekklesia.co.uk/content/news_syndication/article_04047nigeria.shtml

                                                                          http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/meast/10/13/iraq.main/index.html

                                                                          http://www.worthynews.com/5886-pakistan-christian-killed-for-drinking-tea-from-muslim-cup

                                                                          http://www.religionnewsblog.com/23679/somalia-christian-killed-for-carrying-bibles

                                                                          • 6 votes
                                                                          #15.3 - Thu Jan 14, 2010 9:50 PM EST
                                                                          John Lawrence-371945

                                                                          There are a lot more links.....

                                                                          http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1039691/posts

                                                                          I will leave it at these.

                                                                          • 6 votes
                                                                          #15.4 - Thu Jan 14, 2010 9:59 PM EST
                                                                          ToldYouSo-

                                                                          Doesn't take much to shut jimbo up, he's somewhat of a "drive- by- insultist"

                                                                            #15.5 - Fri Jan 15, 2010 2:20 AM EST
                                                                            John Smith The Great

                                                                            Jimbo got what he asked for. LOL!

                                                                              #15.6 - Fri Jan 15, 2010 4:21 AM EST
                                                                              Amazonbaby

                                                                              Hey Jimbo, Don't you pay attention to the news? How about Darfur, Saudi Arabia, China, India, Pakistan, Afghanistan, all the old Soviet Bloc countries, Lebanon, Sudan, India, Egypt, Somalia, Ethiopia, Etretia, Algeria, Vietnam, Cambodia, Laos, Malaysia, etc.......Christians are currently being killed and persecuted in all of these countries and their churches fire bombed. Not allowed to rebuild. Christian women are kidnapped, raped and forced to convert and marry their rapist. In Egypt last week, thousands of Moslems attacked and destroyed 100's of Christian's businesses, killed and beat Christians, destroyed their homes, and the police refused to file reports. And, the Moslems based their violence on rumors. This same story repeats itself over and over in any Moslem dominant country. And, the communist countries tourture, jail and kill Christians.

                                                                              Learn more - search on Voices of the Martyrs or Persecution.com

                                                                              • 1 vote
                                                                              #15.7 - Fri Jan 15, 2010 5:21 AM EST
                                                                              goldminor

                                                                              That is a questionable statement. That would be 5,000/mo. every month for the last 100 years.

                                                                                #15.8 - Fri Jan 15, 2010 4:14 PM EST
                                                                                Reply
                                                                                Handgunner

                                                                                God whips voodoo spirits in earthquake zones

                                                                                • 1 vote
                                                                                Reply#16 - Thu Jan 14, 2010 9:27 PM EST
                                                                                YepYeah

                                                                                Geez, you guys sure are insecure.

                                                                                Instead of applauding these people for helping those in need, you just put them down because their beliefs differ from yours. What a backwards mentality!

                                                                                • 9 votes
                                                                                Reply#17 - Thu Jan 14, 2010 9:27 PM EST
                                                                                BooHoo-1351197

                                                                                It's called REALITY.....

                                                                                • 2 votes
                                                                                #17.1 - Fri Jan 15, 2010 1:11 AM EST
                                                                                Allen-968499

                                                                                Reality of what? All I see are people assuming these guys have an evil agenda and running their mouths off based on that assumption.

                                                                                The REALITY is that they are trying to help orphans and atheists are coming out of the woodwork to condemn it. For a group that keeps pulling the "you aren't the only ones with morals" card, you guys are showing where your morals lie on this issue and it's disgusting.

                                                                                  #17.2 - Fri Jan 15, 2010 11:02 AM EST
                                                                                  aquatone

                                                                                  The reality, on the ground now in Haiti. NOT Pennsylvania in winter.

                                                                                    #17.3 - Fri Jan 15, 2010 12:07 PM EST
                                                                                    Reply
                                                                                    R. Scalzo

                                                                                    Unfortunately what they will wind up doing is divert needed resources to help get them out of trouble. The will have to bring fuel and food so they can survive. What's going to be left over to help those that need it. Leave it to the professionals and donate the funds used to pay for this venture.

                                                                                    • 1 vote
                                                                                    Reply#18 - Thu Jan 14, 2010 9:33 PM EST
                                                                                    MtMike-571674

                                                                                    Sorry, Logic not applicable to religous nutz = Gawd is on their side!

                                                                                    • 1 vote
                                                                                    #18.1 - Fri Jan 15, 2010 12:19 AM EST
                                                                                    Amazonbaby

                                                                                    Go back and reread the article. This isn't this group's first Haitian "rodeo". They have been providing orphanages, medical care and digging wells in Haiti for years. This is their church's orphanage. They have been in contact witih them and know their situation. Go to the church's website, accessible through the church's name in the article. They have orphanages and mission work through out the world and they provide a lot of services in their local area, too. They were just on Haiti a couple of months ago, and were planning to return in April with supplies. I think people don't read the entire article. All they do is see "Christian" and their claws come out. Then they use these forums to spread their personal bias and hate. What God are you serving?

                                                                                    • 1 vote
                                                                                    #18.2 - Fri Jan 15, 2010 5:25 AM EST
                                                                                    Allen-968499

                                                                                    R. Scalzo

                                                                                    Unfortunately what they will wind up doing is divert needed resources to help get them out of trouble.

                                                                                    Because of their faith? Where's the logic in that MtMike? Are all atheists automatically competent rescue workers or something? Christian groups do this type of work year round globally. I guess because you are atheist and figured out how to sign into newsvine on your computer that makes you an expert on complete strangers.

                                                                                    Logic....phththt. If that's what atheists call logic, it explains alot.

                                                                                    • 1 vote
                                                                                    #18.3 - Fri Jan 15, 2010 11:08 AM EST
                                                                                    aquatone

                                                                                    I believe he was just dealing in reality, Allen. That's probably why you can't understand his perfectly valid point.

                                                                                      #18.4 - Fri Jan 15, 2010 11:24 AM EST
                                                                                      Reply
                                                                                      mike-1529578

                                                                                      I'm still trying to reconcile the idea of Christians with machetes.

                                                                                      Oh well they're nondenominational.....

                                                                                      Good luck to them.

                                                                                      • 1 vote
                                                                                      Reply#19 - Thu Jan 14, 2010 9:57 PM EST
                                                                                      No gun

                                                                                      King James Bible
                                                                                      Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

                                                                                      Luke 22:36

                                                                                      • 1 vote
                                                                                      #19.1 - Thu Jan 14, 2010 10:33 PM EST
                                                                                      Harold Gates

                                                                                      Me too??

                                                                                        #19.2 - Fri Jan 15, 2010 12:30 AM EST
                                                                                        mike-1529578

                                                                                        @No gun

                                                                                        Matthew 26:52- All who take the sword will perish by the sword

                                                                                        Luke 6:27- Love your enemies; bless those who persecute you

                                                                                        2 Corinthians 10:4- The weapons we fight with are not the weapons of the world.

                                                                                        1 Peter 3:11- Turn from evil; do good; seek peace; pursue it

                                                                                        Please don't Bible quote at me, its quite annoying. And u can see how ur quote is no longer viable. Oh the many contradictions of the Bible.....

                                                                                          #19.3 - Fri Jan 15, 2010 2:37 AM EST
                                                                                          Amazonbaby

                                                                                          Mike, come down off your ivory tower. I think you have some major misconceptions and false ideas about exactly what constitutes a Christian.

                                                                                            #19.4 - Fri Jan 15, 2010 5:28 AM EST
                                                                                            drbacon

                                                                                            They are only contradictions when used out of context by those who are not knowledgeable of the true meaning of the text.

                                                                                              #19.5 - Fri Jan 15, 2010 5:36 AM EST
                                                                                              Amazonbaby

                                                                                              Dr. Bacon, you love to write very generic sentences without explaining what you mean. Please expound.

                                                                                                #19.6 - Fri Jan 15, 2010 6:08 AM EST
                                                                                                aquatone

                                                                                                As opposed to Amazonbaby, who just loves to write, period. I understand exactly what drbacon means. I don't agree with him/her, but I can certainly understand the meanings intended.

                                                                                                  #19.7 - Fri Jan 15, 2010 11:28 AM EST
                                                                                                  Allen-968499

                                                                                                  Thou shalt not kill should be an obvious one to include. Something atheists like to exclude all the time in the name of Christian bashing.

                                                                                                  And, Amazonbaby, if you haven't researched the "out of context" quotes on your own already, you aren't going to believe anything someone shows you anyway so it'd be a waste of time. Atheists favorite trick is to take a quote from the Bible that was made by a king or satan and say "see, the bible says this".

                                                                                                    #19.8 - Fri Jan 15, 2010 11:48 AM EST
                                                                                                    aquatone

                                                                                                    That isn't my favorite trick. Not even close.

                                                                                                      #19.9 - Fri Jan 15, 2010 12:12 PM EST
                                                                                                      Reply
                                                                                                      rustysun

                                                                                                      God Bless these men for trying to get in and help the orphans. And may the Haitian doctor who is with them and translating for them -- may he find his wife and children.

                                                                                                      My heart is with all of the people of Haiti. From what I've read the situation is so desperate that I'm sure they can use all of the help they can get -- professional or otherwise. It also seems to me that these men are as well-prepared as anyone can be entering such a disaster zone, with a plan and supplies and yes, knives, both for protection and to use as tools.

                                                                                                      We're all on this Earth together and we should help our fellow humans as much as we can.

                                                                                                      • 4 votes
                                                                                                      Reply#20 - Thu Jan 14, 2010 9:58 PM EST
                                                                                                      faithdriven

                                                                                                      For all you non-believers, I once was one. I am a member of Life Church. The first thing people continually don't get is good Christians do not believe or follow Pat Robertson or any other extremists. We are also not as the media makes us out to be. I know these guys. They are street smart and many are originally from other countries. They are not white middle class Americans sitting around judging others who have never experienced the "real deal" every day out there in our cities, communities and other countries in Central, South America and Africa. They grew up in all types of conditions, learning what truly makes a difference. The knife Ramon carries is his "security blanket" because there are situations which come up, most of all during a catastrophe like this one, where people are desperate and can lose their commmon sense for survival. Ramon does not use that knife.

                                                                                                      Also, anyone read Three Cups of Tea? Greg Mortison who had built schools all over Afghanistan and Pakistan? His "dirty dozen" as he calls them of local tribesman, etc, carry knives also. The don't use them either.

                                                                                                      Our guys didn't go in to hurt anyone or break laws. You won't find better people. We took over an orphanage only months ago, found out the kids had been abused by the previous people, bought them a new home, clothed them, fed them, brought them hope. And now the building is gone. But the kids are alive and well. We don't do things for others approval. We show by example what it means to be a Christian by reaching out to others, no matter the circumstances. To put ourselves last instead of first.

                                                                                                      For all you non-believers, I've been where you are. It's not bad as long as things are going your way, but it can be a lonely existence once you realize you need someone much bigger than you to take over.

                                                                                                      By the way, I am white and "upper class" by most people's standards, but I couldn't be prouder of my church than right now during this horrific time in Haiti's history. Go get 'em guys!

                                                                                                      • 9 votes
                                                                                                      Reply#21 - Thu Jan 14, 2010 10:15 PM EST
                                                                                                      jkenney1973

                                                                                                      Well this objectivist atheist applauds what your church is doing.

                                                                                                      • 6 votes
                                                                                                      #21.1 - Thu Jan 14, 2010 11:05 PM EST
                                                                                                      drbacon

                                                                                                      Ah yes. Good intentions.

                                                                                                      I know them well.

                                                                                                      They are used as paving stones

                                                                                                      Along the road to Hell.

                                                                                                      • 1 vote
                                                                                                      #21.2 - Fri Jan 15, 2010 5:42 AM EST
                                                                                                      Amazonbaby

                                                                                                      Dr. bacon, instead of writing poetry, give us an example for your explanation. It was too generic. Are you saying you did something similar that is leading you to hell??

                                                                                                      • 1 vote
                                                                                                      #21.3 - Fri Jan 15, 2010 6:01 AM EST
                                                                                                      aquatone

                                                                                                      drbacon, I don't agree with you but there is no need for you to elucidate further.

                                                                                                        #21.4 - Fri Jan 15, 2010 11:30 AM EST
                                                                                                        Reply
                                                                                                        Horus-282158

                                                                                                        Vigilante charity. Good intentions but perhaps poor judgement. My question is, why couldn't they just volunteer to donate their stuff and through proper channels, help the existing agencies already arriving and leave the religious grandstanding aside? The last thing any child wants who has just had their whole life completely destroyed in ten seconds is a lot of conversion preaching they can't even understand and with zealous Christians, that is always part of their motivation and while it is their right to evangelize their faith, right now is NOT the time for that.

                                                                                                        • 1 vote
                                                                                                        Reply#22 - Thu Jan 14, 2010 10:27 PM EST
                                                                                                        ToldYouSo-

                                                                                                        Because they are bringing a knife, they are stating from what they know of life down there, apparently they feel the proper channels haven't been installed yet.

                                                                                                          #22.1 - Fri Jan 15, 2010 2:25 AM EST
                                                                                                          Amazonbaby

                                                                                                          You just had to throw in your preconceived,negative spin....didn't you......."vigilante charity - conversion preaching they can't understand with zealous Christians" - I'm sure since they have been living in a Christian charity that they are already Christians. You are so involved that you always know the motivations behind what every person is doing? Tell me, where did you get your intel that those men are going to the orphanage to evangelize? Go and reread the article. You are just using this forum to air your bias and personal hatred.

                                                                                                          The men going, are already involved with the orphanage. What those orphans understand is it's the Christians that rescued them from the past abusers, and are currently housing, feeding, clothing, giving medical care, educating and loving them now. Not HORUS. And, who is coming to rescue them again - the Christians. I can't believe all the arm chair wantabee negative tell everyone how to it should be done chumps here who are trying to put the Christians down. And, it's all the time, in every post, about every subject. It gets so tiring. Do you just need some attention? Any type of attention? Since this earthquake happened, tell me, what have you done for the Haitians?

                                                                                                          • 1 vote
                                                                                                          #22.2 - Fri Jan 15, 2010 3:43 AM EST
                                                                                                          Amazonbaby

                                                                                                          Horus, Why don't you go to the website for the church that runs the orphanage? There is a link with the name of the church in the article. There are three churches involved. They have orphanages all around the world. They also dig wells, build houses and provide medical care. And, they are collecting supplies for a second trip to Haiti for their orphanage. I'm sure church members will be involved in helping to rebuild houses in Haiti. Are you planning to go?

                                                                                                          And, before you start with the ole, "why don't they help back here in the USA rant", they do. They work with Habitat for Humanity, stock foodbanks, recovery care, provide local medical and charity care, and operate schools and daycares. There was more but I wanted to write to you. They have videos of their mission trips so you can see the orphanage in Haiti, along with the wells they have dug. And, all the people who go on the mission trips around the world, pay out of their own pocket so they can go and care for others who have less. But all you can do is sit there and put them down. Oh, those horrible Christians.....boy, without them, millions would be staving, homeless and hurting. But I'm sure that the dead god, Horus, is out there providing for all of these hurting people. All we have to do is read about Horus to see what his goals where. God, commanded the Jews to stay away from the religions associated with Horus.

                                                                                                          • 1 vote
                                                                                                          #22.3 - Fri Jan 15, 2010 4:28 AM EST
                                                                                                          aquatone

                                                                                                          Amaonbaby, please elucidate. What have you done to help the Haitians, besides wasting so much time here? I have made a small donation, myself. Perhaps if you told us what you have done to help first, it would help us understand your close attention to this particular topic. You just seem to know so much yourself, so please share.

                                                                                                            #22.4 - Fri Jan 15, 2010 11:36 AM EST
                                                                                                            Reply
                                                                                                            Marshall James

                                                                                                            best of luck to them on their journey

                                                                                                            • 3 votes
                                                                                                            Reply#23 - Thu Jan 14, 2010 10:30 PM EST
                                                                                                            2cworth

                                                                                                            Don't think the article should have mentioned weapons. Probably should have taken more than knife, but discreetly. It should have just been about the missionaries connecting with their orphanage. BTW, how do you drive to Haiti

                                                                                                              Reply#24 - Thu Jan 14, 2010 10:33 PM EST
                                                                                                              jellybeanz

                                                                                                              lol I was wondering the same thing about how to drive to Haiti (on an island), but after reading the article further I realized they are driving from the Dominican Republic which is on the same island.

                                                                                                                #24.1 - Thu Jan 14, 2010 11:38 PM EST
                                                                                                                Reply
                                                                                                                bsimspon

                                                                                                                What would Jesus do he would nothing. There are so many problems in the world I do not think he would concentrateon Hatti. He might get rid of there leaders as they are so corruptthey are going to have a hard time getting to heaven. The people of the world need to start depending there selves and not the good Old USA to save there BUTTS. When ever a tornado strikes a hurricane comes on shore and tears things up when the snow raises hell on us who comes to our rescue. Nobody that is right nobody how many countries have given money to rebuild the twin towers.

                                                                                                                • 1 vote
                                                                                                                Reply#25 - Thu Jan 14, 2010 10:36 PM EST
                                                                                                                Patriot1-935417

                                                                                                                bsimpson - Apparently your heart is too cold and your head too thick to realize that Jesus is doing something and you could be a witness to it, if you would just pay attention.

                                                                                                                • 1 vote
                                                                                                                #25.1 - Thu Jan 14, 2010 11:08 PM EST
                                                                                                                Ralph Osbon

                                                                                                                Jesus lived in a desert in the Middle East if he existed at all ... but beyond that ... just what is this all about?

                                                                                                                Haiti is a failed society as well as a failed revolution.

                                                                                                                the earth-quake just revealed but did not cause the failure of Haiti.

                                                                                                                Haiti was once a French island called the Jewel of the Carribean, but the natives revolted and killed the French and Haiti became the poorest nation in the western hemisphere. Why does South Africa come to mind? Oh yes.... South Africa once was the strongest nation in Africa before the blacks took over the country and now it's starving.

                                                                                                                ...

                                                                                                                • 5 votes
                                                                                                                #25.2 - Fri Jan 15, 2010 12:16 AM EST
                                                                                                                BooHoo-1351197

                                                                                                                I agree, and this can happen in America too.

                                                                                                                  #25.3 - Fri Jan 15, 2010 1:09 AM EST
                                                                                                                  sometimes-1505713

                                                                                                                  Ralph,

                                                                                                                  Haiti was the Jewel of the Caribbean based on the lavish lifestyle those who built their wealth on the backs of chattel slave labor were able to live. Haiti may be the poorest nation in the Western Hemisphere, but they have something priceless, which the French may have never given them: their freedom. Same thing with South Africa. Things were great for some people, those in power, but not for the majority whose backs were broken to build someone else's wealth.... In the words of Emiliano Zapata, It is better to die on your feet, than to live on your knees

                                                                                                                  • 1 vote
                                                                                                                  #25.4 - Fri Jan 15, 2010 2:15 AM EST
                                                                                                                  ToldYouSo-

                                                                                                                  Maybe Ralph, but there is an island full of human beings there. Jesus spent time on earth, with worse than you'll find in Haiti, because all sheep are important to him, he created them.

                                                                                                                    #25.5 - Fri Jan 15, 2010 2:30 AM EST
                                                                                                                    Amazonbaby

                                                                                                                    Many countries donated money and offered to help but Bush turned them down. Don't you remember the Saudi prince who donated something like $10M and Bush rejected it? Go back and read history. Lots of countries offered money and help for Katrina, too.

                                                                                                                    • 1 vote
                                                                                                                    #25.6 - Fri Jan 15, 2010 3:48 AM EST
                                                                                                                    Mike Auto

                                                                                                                    Amazonbaby - Go back and get a solid factual book on the relief assistance on the twin towers. It wasn't Bush, it was the Mayor of New York who turned down the money from Prince Al-Waleed bin Talal bin Abdul Aziz al-Saud, because the prince believed the US aided Israel and turned it's back on the so called Palestinian people. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/saudiarabia/1359362/Why-US-spurned-princes-7m-gift.html

                                                                                                                    • 2 votes
                                                                                                                    #25.7 - Fri Jan 15, 2010 7:39 AM EST
                                                                                                                    MrIndia

                                                                                                                    Ralph Osbon is exactly right.

                                                                                                                    Look at India - At one time the richest nation in the world. But then that stupid Gandhi had to go and snatch his so called freedom from the British. Look what happened to India as the british left - overpopulation , corruption, squalor ...BLAH.

                                                                                                                    Same with South Africa , Haiti, south America, hong kong ...the moment the white man left these lands went back to being a mess.

                                                                                                                    I think all non white nations should be under the rule of white men. That is the only way things can work.

                                                                                                                      #25.8 - Fri Jan 15, 2010 10:35 AM EST
                                                                                                                      Reply
                                                                                                                      vicky from the north-374444

                                                                                                                      I hope they remembered to bring condoms to pass out to the general public along the way.

                                                                                                                        Reply#26 - Thu Jan 14, 2010 10:39 PM EST
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