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Man angry at IRS crashes plane into building

Thu Feb 18, 2010 6:57 PM EST
us-news, us, texas, crash, plane, internal-revenue-service
Jim Vertuno, Associated Press
< PreviousNext >
showing 1 of 15 photos
<p>Smoke billows from a seven-story building after a small private plane crashed into the building  in Austin, Texas on Thursday Feb. 18, 2010. (AP Photo/Harry Cabluck)</p>

Smoke billows from a seven-story building after a small private plane crashed into the building in Austin, Texas on Thursday Feb. 18, 2010. (AP Photo/Harry Cabluck)

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AUSTIN — A software engineer furious with the Internal Revenue Service launched a suicide attack on the agency Thursday by crashing his small plane into an office building containing nearly 200 IRS employees, setting off a raging fire that sent workers running for their lives.

Emergency crews recovered two bodies from the wreckage. The pilot was presumed dead and one worker in the building had been missing. Austin Fire Department Battalion Chief Palmer Buck declined to discuss the identities of those found, but said Thursday night that authorities had "accounted for everybody."

The FBI tentatively identified the pilot as A. Joseph Stack III, 53. Law enforcement officials, speaking on condition of anonymity because the investigation was still going on, said that before taking off, Stack apparently set fire to his house and posted a long anti-government screed on the Web. It was dated Thursday and signed "Joe Stack (1956-2010)."

In it, the author cited run-ins he had with the IRS and ranted about the tax agency, government bailouts and corporate America's "thugs and plunderers."

"I have had all I can stand," he wrote, adding: "I choose not to keep looking over my shoulder at `big brother' while he strips my carcass."

The pilot took off in a four-seat, single engine Piper PA-28 from an airport in Georgetown, about 30 miles from Austin, without filing a flight plan. He flew low over the Austin skyline before plowing into the side of the hulking, seven-story, black-glass building just before 10 a.m. with a thunderous explosion that instantly stirred memories of Sept. 11.

Flames shot from the building, windows exploded, a huge pillar of black smoke rose over the city, and terrified workers rushed to get out.

The Pentagon scrambled two F-16 fighter jets from Houston to patrol the skies over the burning building before it became clear that it was the act of a lone pilot, and President Barack Obama was briefed.

"It felt like a bomb blew off," said Peggy Walker, an IRS revenue officer who was sitting at her desk. "The ceiling caved in and windows blew in. We got up and ran."

At least 13 people were injured, with two reported in critical condition. About 190 IRS employees work in the building.

Gerry Cullen was eating breakfast at a restaurant across the street when the plane struck the building and "vanished in a fireball."

Matt Farney, who was in the parking lot of a nearby Home Depot, said he saw a low-flying plane near some apartments just before it crashed. "I figured he was going to buzz the apartments or he was showing off," Farney said. "It was insane. It didn't look like he was out of control or anything."

Sitting at her desk in another building a half-mile from the crash, Michelle Santibanez felt the vibrations and ran to the windows, where she and her co-workers witnessed a scene that reminded them of 9/11.

"It was the same kind of scenario, with window panels falling out and desks falling out and paperwork flying," said Santibanez, an accountant.

The building, in a heavily congested section of Austin, was still smoldering six hours later, with the worst of the damage on the second and third floors.

The entire outside of the second floor was gone on the side of the building where the plane hit. Support beams were bent inward. Venetian blinds dangled from blown-out windows, and large sections of the exterior were blackened with soot. It was not immediately clear if any tax records were destroyed.

Andrew Jacobson, an IRS revenue officer who was on the second floor when the plane hit with a "big whoomp" and then a second explosion, said about six people couldn't use the stairwell because of smoke and debris. He found a metal bar to break a window so the group could crawl out onto a concrete ledge, where they were rescued by firefighters. His bloody hands were bandaged.

Austin Police Chief Art Acevedo said "heroic actions" by federal employees may explain why the death toll was so low.

The FBI was investigating. The National Transportation Safety Board sent an investigator as well.

Rep. Michael McCaul, a Republican from Austin on the Homeland Security Committee, said the panel will take up the issue of how to better protect buildings from attacks with planes.

In the long, rambling, self-described "rant" that Stack apparently posted on the Internet, he began: "If you're reading this, you're no doubt asking yourself, `Why did this have to happen?'"

He recounted his financial reverses, his difficulty finding work in Austin, and at least two clashes with the IRS, one of them after he filed no return because, he said, he had no income, the other after he failed to report his wife Sheryl's income.

He railed against politicians, the Catholic Church, the "unthinkable atrocities" committed by big business, and the government bailouts that followed. He said he slowly came to the conclusion that "violence not only is the answer, it is the only answer."

"I saw it written once that the definition of insanity is repeating the same process over and over and expecting the outcome to suddenly be different. I am finally ready to stop this insanity. Well, Mr. Big Brother IRS man, let's try something different; take my pound of flesh and sleep well," he wrote.

According to California state records, Stack had a troubled business history, twice starting software companies in California that ultimately were suspended by the state's tax board, one in 2000, the other in 2004. Also, his first wife filed for bankruptcy in 1999, listing a debt to the IRS of nearly $126,000.

The blaze at Stack's home, a red-brick house on a tree-lined street in a middle-class neighborhood six miles from the crash site, caved in the roof and blew out the windows.

Elbert Hutchins, who lives one house away, said the house caught fire about 9:15 a.m. He said a woman and her daughter drove up to the house before firefighters arrived.

"They both were very, very distraught," said Hutchins, a retiree who said he didn't know the family well. "'That's our house!' they cried. `That's our house!'"

Red Cross spokeswoman Marty McKellips said the agency was treating two people who live in the house and that the family had no comment Thursday. McKellips said the family would "give information and answer questions" on Friday.

Thursday was not the first time a tax protester went after an Austin IRS building. In 1995, Charles Ray Polk plotted to bomb the IRS Austin Service Center. He was released from prison in October of last year.

The tax protest movement has a long history in the U.S. and was a strong component of anti-government sentiments that surged during the 1990s. Anti-tax protesters typically believe that they do not have to pay income taxes. Some have been convicted in recent years for targeting IRS officials for harassment and even murder.

___

Associated Press writers April Castro and Jay Root in Austin; Michelle Roberts in Georgetown; Linda Stewart Ball, Danny Robbins, Jeff Carlton and John McFarland in Dallas; Devlin Barrett, Lolita C. Baldor, Eileen Sullivan and Joan Lowy in Washington; and Melanie Coffee and Barbara Rodriguez in Chicago contributed to this report, along with the AP News Research Center.

© 2010 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.
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  • Public Discussion (278)
Jump to discussion page: 1 2 3
BLOGER-486140

Sounds like a tea bagger. I suspect we will see more of this. Republicans have been stoking the anger and fear of the extreme right in a ploy to discredit Democrats and win votes. I think it will eventually backfire on them when one of their extreme patrons pulls a stunt like this bozo.

  • 20 votes
#1 - Thu Feb 18, 2010 7:58 PM EST
determined0a1

I knew that any of the liberals here could try to string attach to the tea baggers.

Many more to come and.....it is going to be discarded.

Attach the sad incident to the personal troubles of an indivual vs the IRS. I feel very sorry for the people that have to be in a hospital with burns.

  • 8 votes
#1.1 - Thu Feb 18, 2010 8:21 PM EST
Sick'N'Tired'Of'It

It was just on the news, prior to jumping into his plane, he set his house on fire and several facebook sites have been pulled down by facebook for people posting things like: "We salute you."

It's being investigated as an act of domestic terrorism.

  • 7 votes
#1.2 - Thu Feb 18, 2010 8:26 PM EST
MyView-222

Bloger

Republicans have been stoking the anger and fear of the extreme right in a ploy to discredit Democrats and win votes.

No "ploy" needed. Democrats are doing a fine job of discrediting themselves these days.

  • 8 votes
#1.3 - Thu Feb 18, 2010 8:27 PM EST
usa1

great post, this story really brings to attention that it is very near tax time.

  • 3 votes
#1.4 - Thu Feb 18, 2010 8:39 PM EST
usa1

just one question did he own the plane or rented it for the day?

It would be a bigger deduction if the plane was owned, and used for business purposes only versus renting. With renting he can only deduct the 1 day rental and not the total cost of the plane, unless he has proof of liability from the rental company. Only than can he deduct the full amount as a loss<<<warped satire

  • 6 votes
#1.5 - Thu Feb 18, 2010 8:47 PM EST
big city

Everyone applauds when a convenience store clerk shoots dead a young thug trying to rob the place. What makes this any different ?

  • 4 votes
#1.6 - Thu Feb 18, 2010 8:55 PM EST
Zumia

Big difference: the employees were doing their jobs, they were not direct threats to this man!!!!

  • 7 votes
#1.7 - Thu Feb 18, 2010 9:11 PM EST
AmericansAtWar

Sad to say, more and more acts like this are coming. Our society is ruled by only a few who take more than they give. Its just a matter of time when "Civil War" will start and all hell will break loose. Neighbor shall rise against neighbor. It is written.

  • 10 votes
#1.8 - Thu Feb 18, 2010 9:59 PM EST
usa1

Neighbor shall rise against neighbor. It is written.

I am so glad I am a product of the public school system, thankfully I am illiterate and since it is written and I cant read, this can never come true.

In case any one is wondering how I could read this my computer is equipped with an old See and Say pull string Put mouse pointer over words and pull string<<<<< LOL

  • 7 votes
#1.9 - Thu Feb 18, 2010 10:07 PM EST
landspirit

To take ones life is one thing, to take it and willfully kill or injure innocent people has no justification- ever.

  • 9 votes
#1.10 - Thu Feb 18, 2010 10:59 PM EST
Buckeye Voter

I was going to make a snarky remark about him being Republican, or Conservative, or something. Then, seeing his tax problems, suggest he may have been a good candidate for Obama's cabinet.

But neither seemed to gel into a good joke.

Guy seems to be just a dick. Dead dick, now. Too bad he killed someone else. @!$%#.

  • 6 votes
#1.11 - Thu Feb 18, 2010 11:44 PM EST
Adastra

Sounds like sanity is finally coming aboard. While many will consider this act an atrocity, I suspect that many of us are wondering why we haven't done something like this before as the government that is supposed to belong to the citizens has become a government that has been purchased outright by the corporate monarchs. Isn't it time for a bit of outrage?--over elections bought and sold without regard for the voters, a Supreme Court that has sold America to the corporations, an executive that is paid by munitions manufacturers, and a Congress that is in the pockets of the corporate campaign financers.

Not that I'm in favor of crashing planes into buildings, just sayin'.

"It isn't as though he didn't have a point worth considering."

With love under will,

Bob, Adastra,

The Wizzard of Jacksonville

  • 5 votes
#1.12 - Fri Feb 19, 2010 12:09 AM EST
Therese Nelson

The Harvard Professor who killed her colleagues in Alabama was a Liberal.... hmm

She also tried to bomb another Professor.

I think liberals think they do not have to take responsibility for their actions, they are elites.

  • 4 votes
#1.13 - Fri Feb 19, 2010 12:26 AM EST
Gorgegirl

Baloney. Quit making everything like this political. This man didn't just begin his problem with the IRS in January 2009. It began way before that. It was his problem - I mean - the guy didn't include his wife's wages in filing taxes and it is the IRS's fault?

This isn't a matter of "liberal" like it was a cuss word or something, or "Conservative" like it was "purity" or something. We both know there are extremes on both sides.

This guy obviously had bad luck all his life - or, he wasn't that good to begin with and needed to find his niche in the world and couldn't. However, leaving his wife's wages off the IRS filing was fraud. Whether he was a democrat or a republican - doesn' t matter.

  • 5 votes
#1.14 - Fri Feb 19, 2010 1:52 AM EST
Mass Graves

Was that a terror attack? Can't blame that on a Muslim or invade Iraq-welp, too late, been there done that. Next.

Big Brother? Alright everybody go pick up a copy of George Orwell's "1984" and "Animal Farm" he predicted our present- then take a look at our world- its being destroyed. These attacks are warning signs.

  • 4 votes
#1.15 - Fri Feb 19, 2010 2:35 AM EST
Craig19

Billy Eli, a band member of Stack's, has known the man for about five years and said he never suspected Stack had any political feelings.

"The Joe I knew was mostly apolitical," he told Fox News. "I never heard him talk politics, or take a stand left or right. As far as I know he didn't have a party affiliation."

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,586581,00.html

  • 1 vote
#1.16 - Fri Feb 19, 2010 2:37 AM EST
Janica

Read the actual note he isnt a 'teabagger' he quotes the communist manifesto and talks smack about God, he is a lefty, liberal, just like you sweetheart, check your sources.

he was a left wing, anti-god terrorist, soak in it

I LOVE how these 'liberals' are so quick to label this guy a "tea bagger" they dont even check their sources they are just echoing talking points JUST LIKE DITTOHEADS just like FOX NEWS HAWKS

learn how to CHECK YOUR FACTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • 4 votes
#1.17 - Fri Feb 19, 2010 7:05 AM EST
llooDeleted
CCArm

I am both appalled and sickened by most of the above posts.

The man was an income tax evader and a malcontent, upset that he had to pay his fair share. The ignorant among you applaud him for this horrible act of violence as somehow being justified. Shame on you.

Are we entering into an time when a few citizens of this country will become enemies of the state? It seems so. This guy is in the same category as Timothy McVeigh and should not be canonized as some sort of hero.

I am sorry for the families and the victims, may they have all the help they need to recover from this act of American Terror.

  • 6 votes
#1.19 - Fri Feb 19, 2010 8:13 AM EST
llooDeleted
mountainmike-1199289

Let's start by keeping politics out of this and calling him a possible tea bagger. He needed psychiatric treatment.

This is different than Timothy McVeigh, who would most likely be a tea party-er. Joseph Stack sounded like he was going bankrupt and homeless.

  • 2 votes
#1.21 - Fri Feb 19, 2010 10:48 AM EST
StaciJ7Deleted
StaciJ7Deleted
Sick'N'Tired'Of'It

Hear-Hear CCArm!

I think that it is more than sick that the first response of many is not to express their pain and horror at this guy's actions with the normal, human response against such a random atrocity but to jump on-line first thing in order to either claim him as: "some sort of lefty-liberal...." or to eve laud his actions as "just the start...."

This man was dangerously ill and yet- somehow, we've come to the point that some people feel perfectly comfortable with their primary response not being for the innocent who may be dead and/or wounded- but to push and/or justify their personal politics?!!!!

I couldn't put the precise words to this thought, but, I am glad that you did!

Because, that's just... sick of some people. I mean, really, really sick.... Innocent people are hurt and certain individuals really don't care- would even, honestly threaten to do even more harm to innocents who were only trying to get through their day and earn their paycheck (just like the rest of us!) so they could get home to and take care of their families?

Wow....Just.... Wow....

    #1.24 - Sat Feb 20, 2010 1:07 AM EST
    CCArm

    Thanks Sick!

    Trying to label this guy w/o pity for his act of violence against innocents is ignorantly insensitive, IMO.

    Of course we care about his history, but only to the point to make sure there aren't others out there, standing in the wings, ready to repeat such an atrocity.

    • 1 vote
    #1.25 - Sat Feb 20, 2010 9:05 AM EST
    lambnlions

    For every action, there is an equal and sometimes catastrophic reaction. Life's a nest of nuts, and everyone effect everyone else. What do you want to do, call out the guillotine gulf carts and kill every one that display any signs of being mentally disturbed?

    Sh** happens.

      #1.26 - Sat Feb 20, 2010 2:12 PM EST
      Sick'N'Tired'Of'It

      What do you want to do, call out the guillotine gulf carts and kill every one that display any signs of being mentally disturbed?

      Not at all!

      Look I can go all "noble" and point out that not calling out something as wrong only encourages it- but, I'm not that good. No, the simple truth is that, at the end of the day, I have to look at myself in the mirror.

      No, I can't control anyone else's thoughts or actions (nor would I wish to!) but, I certainly will not stand silently by while people display all of the worst darknesses that we can be capable of without at least saying something.

      As for your implied threat? Your saying may be "Sh*** happens" and you may see this man's action as just "an equal and sometimes catastrophic reaction" but my family's motto is quite clear thank you:

      "NEVER start the fight!... But always FINISH IT!!!"

      So, please- before you start threatening to "reaction" towards myself? Don't mistake a desire for peace and a certain modicum of human decency in fellow human beings for being a blind, idealistic fool.

      But, we've already started upon the obvious path, haven't we? Because I already see where this dance is going- it's as old as time itself. Because, now that you've already started the threats, the bullying shall only escalate because I have just never been able to cower properly.

      So, I tell you what, I'm going now. You go ahead and do and say whatever it is you feel it necessary to do and say to make yourself feel better.

      CCArm- it was nice talking to you. You have a good one sweetie.

        #1.27 - Sun Feb 21, 2010 1:13 AM EST
        Truth Hurts-840829

        to bad the guy died

        I would have liked to see him die at our hands instead.

        • 1 vote
        #1.28 - Mon Feb 22, 2010 2:40 PM EST
        davetopper

        I see that point Truth Hurts and I agree with it. He would have met the same fate as Timothy McVeigh.

        Even if no one died including himself, he would have met something more menacing than the IRS, our penal system.

          #1.29 - Wed Feb 24, 2010 9:32 PM EST
          Reply
          islandgirl-382087

          Oh yeah that should just about do it to stop the IRS from taxing us to death from now on! Now get back to work sheeple, millions of illegal immigrants are depending on you!

          • 16 votes
          Reply#2 - Thu Feb 18, 2010 8:01 PM EST
          MyView-222

          Oh yeah that should just about do it to stop the IRS from taxing us to death from now on!

          They'll have to raise taxes. Security isn't cheap, you know.

          • 6 votes
          #2.1 - Thu Feb 18, 2010 8:59 PM EST
          mountainmike-1199289

          It does remind me of all the billionaires that use offshore banking for tax evasion. The IRS through the Bush years held to the incredibly naive view that the tax cuts would encourage the rich to bring their money back on shore. Typical of the hog snout in the trough mentality, they took the tax cuts and continued with offshore banking.

          Then recently the US, UK, Germany and others threatened to put the Swiss Bank and famous tax haven on trial. Over 5,000 super rich Americans had billions of dollars stuffed away in UBS for tax evasion purposes. The UK and Germany had even a greater problem with UBS, all because Switzerland offered secrecy to people wishing to evade taxes.

          I can't reconcile that with my elderly mother who has been frugal and saved money all her life and now has large bank accounts and interest income. She must be accurate to the penny on all her IRS forms for a relatively small amount of money in comparison with the tax evading super rich of America that have these offshore bank accounts.

          IRS needs a mandate to start at the top to close these loopholes for billionaires and corporations.

          • 2 votes
          #2.2 - Fri Feb 19, 2010 10:57 AM EST
          islandgirl-382087

          Mountainmike, what loophole? The IRS is the government, the government is controlled by the big money corporations and the wealthy tycoons who just so happen to have a large chunk of their change in these offshore accounts. Nope no loopholes there just a lot patronizing.

          Clearly the only loophole I see is (visualize now) in the middle and lower class, as in bend over we (the government) need to reach into your loophole and get some more taxes out of you. I'd laugh it it weren't so damn true.

          • 2 votes
          #2.3 - Fri Feb 19, 2010 12:28 PM EST
          Reply
          Tony in Arizona

          Al-qaeda took the kamikaze attack first seen by the Japanese against enemy aircraft and ships to a new level. I guess we can expect to see the trend continue with planes used against buildings.

          • 3 votes
          #3 - Thu Feb 18, 2010 8:10 PM EST
          TL-770512

          Why don't they label this what it is... a terrorist attack.

          • 10 votes
          #3.1 - Thu Feb 18, 2010 9:28 PM EST
          2TailPuppy

          Why don't they label this what it is... a terrorist attack.

          Yes. The IRS terrorists.

          • 12 votes
          #3.2 - Thu Feb 18, 2010 9:30 PM EST
          Jimster

          Yes. The IRS terrorists.

          Paying taxes is terrorism?

          Geez, grow a set

          • 7 votes
          #3.3 - Fri Feb 19, 2010 1:42 AM EST
          Digital-904078

          People wanna live in this country, scream about it being the greatest country on the planet, then when tax times come it's like they all wanna live here for free or something. If it comes out that this guy had major problems with paying his taxes are all those people saying they salute him gonna do the necessary 180 flip and treat him like they treat some few members of obamas cabinet?

          • 3 votes
          #3.4 - Fri Feb 19, 2010 2:31 AM EST
          mountainmike-1199289

          People wanna live in this country, scream about it being the greatest country on the planet, then when tax times come it's like they all wanna live here for free or something. If it comes out that this guy had major problems with paying his taxes are all those people saying they salute him gonna do the necessary 180 flip and treat him like they treat some few members of obamas cabinet?

          And tax collected from average Americans is chump change in comparison to the billionaire super rich using offshore bank accounts for tax evasion. In dealing with the hogs with their snouts in the trough using offshore banking, it is time the IRS has a public mandate to "bring home the bacon."

          • 3 votes
          #3.5 - Fri Feb 19, 2010 11:01 AM EST
          DefheroDeleted
          2TailPuppy

          Defhero

          You're my man...or woman!

          • 1 vote
          #3.7 - Sat Feb 20, 2010 3:56 PM EST
          Tony Wlliams

          Speak for yourself because while most of us don't like having to pay tax we don't believe that murdering an office worker is the way to express that anger. We use the courts, we write letters to Congress, and we damn sure don't go off the deep end.

            #3.8 - Sat Feb 20, 2010 3:58 PM EST
            Socrates1

            And when it doesn't work?? When the Secretary of the Treasury is a tax cheat, what does that tell you?

            • 1 vote
            #3.9 - Sun Feb 21, 2010 3:09 PM EST
            Concerned Citizen-1303521

            And when it doesn't work?? When the Secretary of the Treasury is a tax cheat, what does that tell you?

            That gives you an excuse to execute some grunt-level employees who has nothing to do with the policies being made at the top?

              #3.10 - Sun Feb 21, 2010 3:29 PM EST
              Socrates1

              I didn't say that. I gave my opinion on to what he might have been thinking.

              btw...1. Isn't it always the lower level ranks that get hurt?

              2. Turbo Tim is still in office. See any movement to change that? What do you suggest? Writing letters and posting on Newsvine?

                #3.11 - Sun Feb 21, 2010 4:07 PM EST
                Tony Wlliams

                The one thing it doesn't tell me is pick up a gun and murder the guy in the corner office who didn't make the rules but is doing his job. It doesn't tell me burn down my families home because someone else pissed me off. It doesn't tell me to destroy the property that I purchased because I tried to cheat instead of finding a way to reach an agreement.

                  #3.12 - Sun Feb 21, 2010 4:11 PM EST
                  Socrates1

                  That wasn't the question. What does it tell you to do which will result in real change?

                    #3.13 - Sun Feb 21, 2010 6:03 PM EST
                    davetopper

                    May not have been the question, but it is the answer. Murder is not it.

                      #3.14 - Sun Feb 21, 2010 7:48 PM EST
                      Socrates1

                      And what is?

                        #3.15 - Sun Feb 21, 2010 8:31 PM EST
                        Tony Wlliams

                        Real change comes when adults sit down and make a real plan they can present that works. Just like here on the Vine we discuss the issues. Now what do you think would or could happen if somebody took all of the real answers and cut and past them to a word file. When they had enough problems with real solutions they could send that word file to their Senator.

                        Dear Senator insert name

                        Please read the following letter on abortion. This letter was made using a blog where people from across America discuss this issue at length. It contains what they feel the real problems are with the issue and what they came up with together as a solution.

                        Please do not disregard this information and remember that some of those people elected you to Office with the belief that you would here their voices.

                        Insert Name

                        Now I might have over simplified it but there it is and it a lot better than shooting up or blowing up an office building.

                          #3.16 - Mon Feb 22, 2010 1:05 AM EST
                          TL-770512

                          If 9/11 was aimed at the right people (instead of civilians) like the government and IRS

                          Last I checked, the pentagon houses the military branch of our "government."

                          IRS = government and I praise the fool who took out his anger, on the source that should of been retaliated on along time ago.

                          You are a fool, and a dangerous one at that. There were non IRS offices in that building and, besides that, are you dumb enough to think the man was venting his anger on a building? On "government property?" Or are you evil enough to support his venting his anger against people who happen to be employed by the IRS?

                          I vote for your hate-speech above to be collapsed as inflammatory.

                          • 1 vote
                          #3.17 - Mon Feb 22, 2010 12:12 PM EST
                          Socrates1

                          Tony-Don't wish to be misconstrued, but when has change not been associated with violence? There have been a number of issues where the polls have shown that the wishes of the people have not been aligned with the votes of their representatives.

                          • 1 vote
                          #3.18 - Mon Feb 22, 2010 12:41 PM EST
                          Tony Wlliams

                          Socrates1

                          Have you forgotten people like Mahatma Gandhi and Martin Luther King already?

                          Just two examples of peace through non-violence.

                          • 1 vote
                          #3.19 - Mon Feb 22, 2010 1:24 PM EST
                          Socrates1

                          Not at all. The division of Pakistan and India resulted in widespread death and destruction.

                          MLK was assassinated.

                            #3.20 - Mon Feb 22, 2010 3:57 PM EST
                            Tony Wlliams

                            Oh a joke very funny Ha Ha.

                            The lessons they taught where that change can be achieved and goals can be reached with non-violent means. Anyone can pick up a gun, any fool can fire it, and any coward can hide behind it. Violence brings about more violence and the cycle of hate will continue until someone says enough is enough.

                              #3.21 - Tue Feb 23, 2010 2:07 AM EST
                              Socrates1

                              Even funnier...forgot to mention Gandhi was assassinated too.

                                #3.22 - Wed Feb 24, 2010 1:30 AM EST
                                DefheroExpand Comment Comment collapsed by the community

                                TL I see your a tree hugging liberal and if someone doesnt say what you agree with, then you call it hate-speech and you want to collapsed as inflammatory. If you live in the US, then leave and go back to the dictating country you were born at. If you are from here, then its ok you are either retarded or need some kind of meds., to survive in this world today.

                                My mother is an accountant, dad retired from the city, my daughter is a teacher and I own a business for 19 years. And yes I applaud the man who puts his anger in the public eye from an orginization that steals, cheats and ruins lives of hard working people. Its like a gang member killing a gang member = no loss to us.

                                P.S. You should believe that over 50% of people feel the way I do on this case and I havent and wont loose any sleep on this matter, but look forward to reading about the copycat who is next in line = I hope I am not at the wrong place at the wrong time, LOL!!!!

                                Word of the day! Can we say LIBERAL TREE HUGGER!

                                • 1 vote
                                #3.23 - Wed Feb 24, 2010 6:58 PM EST
                                tyler

                                3.6 deleted, Defhero wishing 9/11 on the U.S. government. Sheesh. Banned, reported to authorities.

                                • 2 votes
                                #3.24 - Fri Feb 26, 2010 6:30 PM EST
                                davetopper

                                Tyler I think at the end of all this you may be a busy busy man. But take names will ya, and take note of political leanings of who you are reporting to the authorities. It may be an interesting article down the road for MSNBC showing how far the right wing has lost its mind.

                                In those anti liberals threads, and anti liberal comments I am coming ever closer to becoming one of those people you suspend for a day.

                                Not there yet, but as Jack said in Big Trouble in Little China, "You never can tell".

                                  #3.25 - Fri Feb 26, 2010 10:26 PM EST
                                  Reply
                                  More Than Happy

                                  "I have had all I can stand," he wrote, adding: "I choose not to keep looking over my shoulder at `big brother' while he strips my carcass."

                                  What a cry-baby. Did he think he was especially cursed, that he was the only one who paid taxes? Rot in Hell, loser.

                                  • 8 votes
                                  Reply#4 - Thu Feb 18, 2010 8:17 PM EST
                                  Bubba-939441

                                  "Rot in Hell, loser."

                                  Liberal compassion?

                                  • 4 votes
                                  #4.1 - Thu Feb 18, 2010 8:29 PM EST
                                  More Than Happy

                                  You must have me confused with someone else.

                                  What you posted is not a sentence, it's a fragment.

                                  • 4 votes
                                  #4.2 - Thu Feb 18, 2010 8:31 PM EST
                                  AmericansAtWar

                                  Selfishly, he fought for his freedom. Many more will come fighting for survival.

                                  • 3 votes
                                  #4.3 - Thu Feb 18, 2010 10:01 PM EST
                                  CCArm

                                  AmericansAtWar

                                  I hope they have you on a watch list.

                                  • 3 votes
                                  #4.4 - Fri Feb 19, 2010 8:17 AM EST
                                  mountainmike-1199289

                                  My impression of Stack is he was in over his head in terms of both taxes and mental health. Instead of "rot in hell" he needed treatment. He needed psyciatric treatment and family support.

                                  • 1 vote
                                  #4.5 - Fri Feb 19, 2010 11:03 AM EST
                                  Reply
                                  bonos_rama

                                  He had a family, a home, a small plane, and had just purchased a piano...and he was whining about paying taxes? My husband just came home from a business trip to India where he was reduced to tears seeing the abject poverty - people born into caste systems who will never have a chance to escape their poverty. Maybe spoiled Americans need to take trips to places like India or Haiti before complaining about their frigging tax bills.

                                  • 18 votes
                                  Reply#5 - Thu Feb 18, 2010 8:21 PM EST
                                  determined0a1

                                  I mentioned many times in NV and in the NYT that we Americans don't have an idea what poverty is. Having the opportunity of traveling around the world, saw 4 and 5 families living, eating and copulating separated by a sheet in Hong Kong.

                                  • 8 votes
                                  #5.1 - Thu Feb 18, 2010 8:27 PM EST
                                  bonos_rama

                                  Exactly. That's why I find it hard to have sympathy for people in this country when they complain about taxes. Nobody likes taxes, but what's the alternative? Living in a country with no infrastructure, no electricity, running water or sewers, no education, no security, etc.?

                                  • 7 votes
                                  #5.2 - Thu Feb 18, 2010 9:03 PM EST
                                  Beckyal

                                  India is not the United States and in fact has taken many jobs from Americans. It appears that people on this site are more concerned about individuals overseas than in America. No wonder you don't care that President Obama cut many programs for Americans and increased foreign aid programs. Before you talk about increasing taxes cut the foreign aid programs.

                                  PS, most of us have a beef at one time or the other with either a state or federal agency and most of us may express ourselves on website like this but would never consider doing something like this. the man had mental problems.

                                  • 5 votes
                                  #5.3 - Thu Feb 18, 2010 9:19 PM EST
                                  Buckeye Voter

                                  He had a family, a home, a small plane, and had just purchased a piano...and he was whining about paying taxes?

                                  And his wife racked up over $125 in tax debt. They weren't poor - he was just spoiled and deranged.

                                  • 7 votes
                                  #5.4 - Thu Feb 18, 2010 11:46 PM EST
                                  bonos_rama

                                  NO,what some of us are saying is we have no sympathy for a guy who was relatively well off and seemed to have issues paying his taxes over the year. a guy who decided to kill people b/c he was pissed he had to pay taxes. His troubles didn't amount to a hilll of beans when taking into consideration what others in this country AND overseas have to go through.

                                  • 5 votes
                                  #5.5 - Fri Feb 19, 2010 12:04 AM EST
                                  GEEZER-guy

                                  ABSOLUTELY right bonos_rama! Waste here is so rampant few even see it. The poorest here are rich compared to a majority of the Global population. We Americans learn world geography by where our latest war is located. Complain about OUR taxes? Look at ANYWHERE in Europe.

                                  • 2 votes
                                  #5.6 - Fri Feb 19, 2010 1:28 AM EST
                                  Digital-904078

                                  Some people just don't get it. Any talk of relating how the US is doing compared to poor parts of the world is anti-american. I have a great idea for cutting

                                  the foreign aid programs

                                  Let's cut the military budget. Get that industrial monster down to a manageable level.

                                  • 7 votes
                                  #5.7 - Fri Feb 19, 2010 2:38 AM EST
                                  Miss Monaco

                                  Maybe spoiled Americans need to take trips to places like India or Haiti before complaining about their frigging tax bills.

                                  Who has money to take trips?

                                  • 2 votes
                                  #5.8 - Fri Feb 19, 2010 3:06 AM EST
                                  Miss Monaco

                                  Wow, the responses here truly amaze me. I would hardly consider anyone who has the money to go around the world to watch people eat in their living rooms poor. Question? Have either of you been around America and witnessed the very same "abject poverty" right here in your own backyard?

                                  Guess not because you may be too busy getting on and off of flights going around the world...News flash, there are people born and raised right here in America who do not and have never had money to leave this country.

                                  • 5 votes
                                  #5.9 - Fri Feb 19, 2010 3:14 AM EST
                                  Janica

                                  taxes are voluntary, there is no law that you must pay them only guys with guns and a paracite system to enforce it, taxing each individual citizen of direct un-apportioned taxes was never ratified into our constitution and is therefore illegal but im broke so mine taxes is little so when gov says - i can has taxes, i pays

                                  this country is wealthy and at peace because people follow the laws, this guy also in my opinion had money, he could afford to burn down his 200,000 house and go to his private hanger and get in his private plane and take out his fustrations in the most expensive rich dude fashion then leave a long rambling note on his website of the business he owns, about how the catholic church gets away with not paying taxes and then quotes the marx - gimmie a break, i dont like the tax man either and i know there is no law but -

                                  IF VIOLENCE IS THE ANSWER, IT WAS A STUPID QUESTION!

                                  -WARNING- do not ask a tax man to show you the law that you have to pay taxes he will take your name and by the time they are done with you you will end up like this dude

                                  • 1 vote
                                  #5.10 - Fri Feb 19, 2010 7:32 AM EST
                                  Gedde

                                  taxes are voluntary, there is no law that you must pay them only guys with guns and a paracite system to enforce it, taxing each individual citizen of direct un-apportioned taxes was never ratified into our constitution and is therefore illegal but im broke so mine taxes is little so when gov says - i can has taxes, i pays

                                  It is precisely this misguided belief, and the resulting failure to prevail in his hopeless arguments against the I. R. S., that fueled Mr. Stack's frustrations.

                                  I'd post innumerable links debunking the various myths you propound with regard to the taxation, but I know it would be futile. Instead, I'll leave you with this quote from an Appellate Judge:

                                  "Like moths to a flame, some people find themselves irresistibly drawn to the tax protester movement's illusory claim that there is no legal requirement to pay federal income tax. And, like moths, these people sometimes get burned." -- US v. Sloan (7th Cir. 1991)

                                  • 2 votes
                                  #5.11 - Fri Feb 19, 2010 9:54 AM EST
                                  determined0a1

                                  We already finish the dried run for our taxes to present to the Accountant. We live always inside our means, i.e. separate a big chunk for the Federal and State Taxes. However, we get upset that our politicians don't pay theirs. They are sitting in our Congress dictating bills to charge us more and they are sitting on their own pile of manure and don't caring about paying what they owe.

                                  • 3 votes
                                  #5.12 - Fri Feb 19, 2010 10:29 AM EST
                                  Reply
                                  Borncorn

                                  Uh-oh, looks like the teabaggers found themselves a martyr.

                                  • 9 votes
                                  Reply#6 - Thu Feb 18, 2010 8:21 PM EST
                                  krounded

                                  Uh-oh, looks like the teabaggers found themselves a martyr.

                                  Not with what he had to say about the health care industry.

                                  He sort of straddled both camps in that manifesto.

                                  No excuse for that act of hatred.

                                  • 5 votes
                                  #6.1 - Thu Feb 18, 2010 8:48 PM EST
                                  Sick'N'Tired'Of'It

                                  Borncorn,

                                  I know, too bad his act of "patriotism" was to just ape the Taliban....

                                  • 1 vote
                                  #6.2 - Thu Feb 18, 2010 9:01 PM EST
                                  Beckyal

                                  He had nothing to do with the teabaggers so stop relating the two.

                                  • 3 votes
                                  #6.3 - Thu Feb 18, 2010 9:20 PM EST
                                  ComSen

                                  Uh-oh, looks like the teabaggers found themselves a martyr.

                                  Actually, he has more in common with the left. He thinks he knows what is right and doesn't like the Catholic church. Also, I think he likes Communism.

                                  • 4 votes
                                  #6.4 - Thu Feb 18, 2010 11:15 PM EST
                                  Borncorn

                                  Actually, hatred of the Catholic Church tends to be from conservative evangelical Christians. Remember the preacher who backed McCain who called Catholics "The Great Whores". I find it hard to believe a man running his own private business is a communist. If that's true, we live in a Communist nation. His hatred of government definitely sounds like the Beck/Limbaugh conservatives of today.

                                  • 8 votes
                                  #6.5 - Thu Feb 18, 2010 11:27 PM EST
                                  Sick'N'Tired'Of'It

                                  And, yet despite his "having more in common with the left..."

                                  Everyone applauds when a convenience store clerk shoots dead a young thug trying to rob the place. What makes this any different ?

                                  Sad to say, more and more acts like this are coming. Our society is ruled by only a few who take more than they give. Its just a matter of time when "Civil War" will start and all hell will break loose. Neighbor shall rise against neighbor. It is written.

                                  Oh yeah, those are definitely comments you tend to hear from those leftist liberals these days.....

                                  • 3 votes
                                  #6.6 - Thu Feb 18, 2010 11:58 PM EST
                                  ARodg

                                  His hatred of government definitely sounds like the Beck/Limbaugh conservatives of today.

                                  How about his hatred for Bush, capitalism and his support of health care reform? But, I guess you, along with the rest of your flock is too blinded by your own hatred and ignorance to actually READ what this guy said in his manifesto.

                                  • 2 votes
                                  #6.7 - Fri Feb 19, 2010 4:41 PM EST
                                  Sick'N'Tired'Of'It

                                  And, you obviously are too blinded by your flock to read the post before you respond to it.

                                  I do however find your immediate response interesting, because I never even mentioned his manifesto- but, instead of arguing the points observed, you immediately respond with something else completely.

                                  But, as you obviously want to argue the weather while the rest of us were talking traffic, you go right on ahead honey. Bless your heart, it's all yours, rant away.

                                    #6.8 - Fri Feb 19, 2010 8:34 PM EST
                                    Reply
                                    neoatg

                                    Sad to see someone like this refused to accept that he is the problem and try and kill others. If you have 30 solid years of problem with the IRS then I doubt it's the IRS that is the main cause of your problems. My Hope goes out to the still missing and the wounded. Domestic terrorism will not be excused any more.

                                    • 8 votes
                                    Reply#7 - Thu Feb 18, 2010 8:27 PM EST
                                    Digital-904078

                                    Well said.

                                    • 1 vote
                                    #7.1 - Fri Feb 19, 2010 2:40 AM EST
                                    determined0a1

                                    7

                                    I understood that the problems with the taxes started on 2000-2001, that's 10 years.

                                    • 2 votes
                                    #7.2 - Fri Feb 19, 2010 10:31 AM EST
                                    Reply
                                    Penny-1315669

                                    How sad for everyone...

                                    • 4 votes
                                    Reply#8 - Thu Feb 18, 2010 8:30 PM EST
                                    lifeinaraindrop

                                    Terrorism.

                                    • 14 votes
                                    Reply#9 - Thu Feb 18, 2010 8:30 PM EST
                                    Kai

                                    Funny the left tries to paint him as a right winger / tea party, etc. Read the guy's manifesto.. he was against capitalism. Hardly a conservative. Nutjob sounds about right though.

                                    The liberals definitely like to spread lies to further their propaganda campaign though...

                                    "Never let a crisis go to waste" - Rahm Emanuel

                                    • 7 votes
                                    Reply#10 - Thu Feb 18, 2010 8:31 PM EST
                                    Psimon

                                    He wasn't anti capitalist he railed against the bailout. He was an anti government anti tax wingnut like the teabaggers and you know it. More to come from the teaparty crowd in the future. Teabaggers make a lot of noise but offer no solutions. They seek only to inflame people so that republicans can win a few seats back in the fall. They don't care if what they say is true just as long as they make people upset. The problem with that strategy is guys like this who go off the deep end.

                                    • 13 votes
                                    #10.1 - Thu Feb 18, 2010 8:44 PM EST
                                    determined0a1

                                    psi,

                                    I feel your pain.

                                    • 2 votes
                                    #10.2 - Thu Feb 18, 2010 9:06 PM EST
                                    Beckyal

                                    He was against everything so there is no way that he could have been a conservative. It is just the liberals mouthing off again.

                                    • 3 votes
                                    #10.3 - Thu Feb 18, 2010 9:21 PM EST
                                    neoatg

                                    Seriously why even try to twist this. The guy was clearly anti-tax ,anti government far right wing nut in a patriot movement sense.

                                    • 4 votes
                                    #10.4 - Thu Feb 18, 2010 9:27 PM EST
                                    Kai

                                    The guy was clearly anti-tax ,anti government far right wing nut in a patriot movement sense.

                                    Unless you have any sort of substantial evidence of this (you don't), then that's just your opinion... of which my opinion says, is wrong.

                                    • 5 votes
                                    #10.5 - Thu Feb 18, 2010 9:41 PM EST
                                    usa1

                                    Kai I agree if people read his final words he stated how an elderly woman was wiped out from her husbands retirement and medical retirement, due to the greed of the coal mine industry.

                                    This does not sound like a far right nut job to me, he also did not sound like the lunatic fringe far left. He was a man caught in the middle and his life observations of personal rights and freedoms being taken and stolen by industry and taxes drove him over the edge.

                                    Only the foolish could label his actions as right or left wing politics. This is only my opinion but I do not see the rational in using symbolic red blue categorization of this mans actions.

                                    • 12 votes
                                    #10.6 - Thu Feb 18, 2010 9:49 PM EST
                                    Miss Monaco

                                    so true...usa1.

                                    he spelled out how he felt in a long letter and it seems that no one even read it...everyone breezed through it looking for a label to put on him...read what he wrote.

                                    • 4 votes
                                    #10.7 - Fri Feb 19, 2010 3:19 AM EST
                                    Kai

                                    Agreed, USA1

                                    • 3 votes
                                    #10.8 - Fri Feb 19, 2010 3:29 AM EST
                                    determined0a1

                                    This man was not functioning. That the IRS wanted him to have another auditing and pay? Well if he was in the right mind there are a couple of ads on TV helping with troubles and payments.

                                    My friends suffered one month of auditing and they survived (an officer was sent to their home)

                                    Just keep (like I do) every payment slip of medicine that we buy, every check, every charged medical with the details. It takes few minutes but it's worth. And.....declare everything.

                                    Once we were audited and asked for the proof entrance to the U.S.A. We used to live overseas. Well, that specific year our passport were not dated in our port of entry. Not a problem, we showed bills after bills that we were in the U.S.A. Not a problem.

                                    • 1 vote
                                    #10.9 - Fri Feb 19, 2010 10:41 AM EST
                                    Reply
                                    RF373Deleted
                                    krounded

                                    What a jackass.......he burned down his family's house too. How did he expect to get back at the IRS by doing that?

                                    His manifesto is a grab bag of complaints. Some sound tea baggish, some sound like something straight off Liberal cable shows. Some of it many people can relate to since you cannot buy anything or engage in any business arrangement anymore without getting ripped off.

                                    He seems to want to portray himself as some destitute guy that has lost everything. But last time I checked, people with no money do not own airplanes or have money for flying lessons.

                                    • 13 votes
                                    Reply#12 - Thu Feb 18, 2010 8:42 PM EST
                                    AmericansAtWar

                                    Uh, freedom? genius.

                                      #12.1 - Thu Feb 18, 2010 10:04 PM EST
                                      Truth Hurts-840829

                                      What a jackass.......he burned down his family's house too. How did he expect to get back at the IRS by doing that?

                                      the IRS had lien on the house

                                      he expected them to get ashes and no more than that

                                      • 1 vote
                                      #12.2 - Sat Feb 20, 2010 11:58 AM EST
                                      davetopper

                                      And his daughter and wife, what is left for them? Supporting this mans actions in any way shape or form is something in a term I do not use very often, concerning.

                                        #12.3 - Sun Feb 21, 2010 7:50 PM EST
                                        mike lonkouski

                                        would you be happier if he had murdered his family first, like plenty of others have?

                                        Come on, @!$%# his wife and kid! Worry about people killing people, not about their god damned families.

                                        • 1 vote
                                        #12.4 - Sun Feb 21, 2010 7:57 PM EST
                                        Reply
                                        Happy Jack-1268238

                                        All the greedy-ars bankers and other recipients of the bail-outs, rich politicians living in the pockets of lobbyists, folks like that...those are the ones who need to start watching their backs I think. We're hurting here. Millions of people are out of work. Unemployment benefits have run out for many, still no jobs. Benefits will run out for those remaining. Six applicants for each available job. Education means absolutely nothing. Too few homeless shelters. Too few food banks, and those exisiting are low on food. What do we have to lose???

                                        • 4 votes
                                        Reply#13 - Thu Feb 18, 2010 8:53 PM EST
                                        Psimon

                                        But you have a computer and internet service. Interesting.

                                        • 7 votes
                                        #13.1 - Thu Feb 18, 2010 8:56 PM EST
                                        Beckyal

                                        happy jack, why are you blaming those that have worked when you should be blaming Obama and congress for cutting programs for Americans and increasing foreign aid. If those individuals would just take the increases of foreign aid and gave half of it to American programs and use the other half to pay down the debt, America's economy would start improving and there would be no need to have a permanent tax increase .

                                        PS. Has anyone found the Budget for the Executive office of the President or the Congressional budget in Obama's Fy 2011 budget. Under previous president's, they were both easy to find now they have disappeared. Maybe some of you who want to increase taxes should look at the spending of these two organizations and request that increases be decreased and spent on americans for jobs, payment of the debt, etc.

                                          #13.2 - Thu Feb 18, 2010 9:29 PM EST
                                          Tony Wlliams

                                          Beckyal

                                          The problems with jobs and program cuts started long before Obama took office. The man worked in IT and problems for those companies began in 2001. Your comment would have been far better if you had left out the attempted dig of Obama and Congress at the start of it because of this fact. So all you did was open the door for another round of place the blame game.

                                          • 1 vote
                                          #13.3 - Fri Feb 19, 2010 2:48 AM EST
                                          HoneyBee-1239445

                                          This was not Obama's fault. The guy was mentally unstable and had problems for years, also it doesn't sound as if he was poor.

                                          I think it's sad that some people think it's ok for someone to take out innocent people anytime you feel mad at our government.

                                          I didn't like some of our previous administrations, but I didn't go out and kill someone for it.

                                          • 1 vote
                                          #13.4 - Fri Feb 19, 2010 9:56 AM EST
                                          determined0a1

                                          The solution was not to kill others and himself. He could to a river and do the same. Now, who is going to take care of his daughter? Oh, I see. Welfare.

                                          • 1 vote
                                          #13.5 - Fri Feb 19, 2010 10:44 AM EST
                                          HoneyBee-1239445

                                          Social Security.

                                            #13.6 - Sun Feb 21, 2010 2:55 PM EST
                                            Reply
                                            2TailPuppy

                                            The IRS is completely out of control. As well as our tax code.

                                            • 7 votes
                                            #14 - Thu Feb 18, 2010 9:05 PM EST
                                            Psimon

                                            So that excuses this? Tell me was the IRS and tax code out of control 2 years ago or 8 years ago. We have the same tax code. Why the outrage now I wonder. What's so diffrent now from then?

                                            • 8 votes
                                            #14.1 - Thu Feb 18, 2010 9:08 PM EST
                                            2TailPuppy

                                            At least he had the guts to do something about it.

                                            • 2 votes
                                            #14.2 - Thu Feb 18, 2010 9:10 PM EST
                                            2TailPuppy

                                            I've been in an audit for 2 years now. The IRS is nothing but a bunch of fat good for nothing power drunk bureaucrats putting in their time before collecting their obscene retirement benefits.

                                            I think the bottom line is the US is too big and unmanageable as a political entity. Even a private company could not manage something like this. Government needs to be administrated and managed at the lowest level possible. Lincoln, FDR and LBJ destroyed what the founding fathers set up.

                                            • 8 votes
                                            #14.3 - Thu Feb 18, 2010 9:14 PM EST
                                            Psimon

                                            At least he had the guts to do something about it.

                                            Wow. Seek professional attention immediately.

                                            • 4 votes
                                            #14.4 - Thu Feb 18, 2010 9:14 PM EST
                                            Psimon

                                            Lincoln, FDR and LBJ destroyed what the founding fathers set up.

                                            Explain this statement please. I gotta hear this logic.

                                            • 4 votes
                                            #14.5 - Thu Feb 18, 2010 9:17 PM EST
                                            2TailPuppy

                                            They destroyed the idea of a united states (lower case "u" and "s") for the concept of a tyrannical federal government with all the power in Washington.

                                            • 4 votes
                                            #14.6 - Thu Feb 18, 2010 9:32 PM EST
                                            Psimon

                                            So tell us what did the founding fathers have in mind. I just find it very interesting that you picked those 3 presidents who have really 1 thing in common.

                                            • 3 votes
                                            #14.7 - Thu Feb 18, 2010 9:36 PM EST
                                            Just Me-1501763

                                            So you think the answer is to run a plane into a building. Pretty sure no one eliminated taxes today because of this terrorist.

                                            • 6 votes
                                            #14.8 - Thu Feb 18, 2010 9:39 PM EST
                                            Tappy McWidestance

                                            I've been in an audit for 2 years now.

                                            Wow, you must have had some creative accounting for that to be dragging out that long. How were you cheating? How did they catch you?

                                            • 4 votes
                                            #14.9 - Thu Feb 18, 2010 10:10 PM EST
                                            Demosthene

                                            This man had no guts, he was a coward. Executing yourself along with innocent strangers is not gutsy, it is craven cowardice.

                                            • 7 votes
                                            #14.10 - Thu Feb 18, 2010 11:25 PM EST
                                            Buckeye Voter

                                            At least he had the guts to do something about it.

                                            I don't applaud killing innocent people. That's not guts. That's pathetic.

                                            • 5 votes
                                            #14.11 - Thu Feb 18, 2010 11:50 PM EST
                                            Jaaack

                                            Those presidents defeated the idea that our nation is a group of seperate states. They exaggerated the role the federal government should have in the "business" of the individual states. All of them asked for centralized powers and a call for a centralized bank to control the monetary policies for the nation. They defeated the idea that a country can survive on a commodity standard, and supported a fiat nothing based currency.

                                            Always remember the "winners of a war" write the history books. Yes Lincoln did the whole freeing the slaves thing (which was great and necessary). The south knew slavery wouldn't last forever and that social unrest would eventually call for slave's freedom. Lincoln on the otherhand wanted more control for the federal government.

                                            • 2 votes
                                            #14.12 - Fri Feb 19, 2010 12:13 AM EST
                                            bonos_rama

                                            Gee, I guess you probably think the 9/11 terrorists also "had the guts to do something about" whatever it was they were pissed about too, eh?

                                            • 3 votes
                                            #14.13 - Fri Feb 19, 2010 12:27 AM EST
                                            usa1

                                            Psimon wrote

                                            So tell us what did the founding fathers have in mind. I just find it very interesting that you picked those 3 presidents who have really 1 thing in common.

                                            In ref to FDR, LBJ, and Lincoln

                                            They were all over 6 ft tall?

                                            • 1 vote
                                            #14.14 - Fri Feb 19, 2010 4:02 AM EST
                                            Psimon

                                            Lincoln liberated the with the amancipation proclaimation.

                                            FDR Liberated the Jews in Germany and intergrated the military

                                            LBJ signed the civil right act.

                                            That's why I found it strange to say that they destroyed what the founding fathers set up.

                                              #14.15 - Fri Feb 19, 2010 6:13 AM EST
                                              JaiAllen

                                              Emancipation proclamation. And it freed no one.

                                              • 1 vote
                                              #14.16 - Fri Feb 19, 2010 6:37 AM EST
                                              Psimon

                                              So what are all the black folks doing walking around loose then. Quick round them up and get them bact to their rightful owners. *sarcasm*

                                              Again wow.

                                                #14.17 - Fri Feb 19, 2010 7:11 AM EST
                                                usa1

                                                not to be the devils advocate but the founding fathers could have cared less about freedom for all. Our founding fathers were from the same mold and ethnicity and when founding the country and its principles did not take into consideration of minorities, women, or any group outside their own circle.

                                                The intent was to free the colonies from outside governments and create a Bill of rights and later the Constitution that honored the founding fathers ideals.

                                                On a side note amendments to our constitution brought forth change in relationship to economy, growth, and demographics of the nation as a whole.

                                                As you referred to the Emancipation proclamation yes true Lincoln was president at the time but the Emancipation proclamation was concieved by a group of Northern Industrialists and Churches. Only after the civil war was the amendments passed13th 14th an 15th.

                                                If there was a great influence on freedom this would have to be Fredrick Douglas, his relations with many of the financially elite and the way he was able to convince them of both moral and profit reasons to end slavery. Now we can talk of others who influenced post civil War America or the reconstruction period. There was Dubois and BT Washington also a great influence on reconstruction. Dubois insisting on education for the now freed slaves while BT Washington leaning towards the 40 acres and a mule.

                                                Not diminishing Lincolns efforts but this was ones persons actions, it was more of a chain of events and individuals that ended slavery.

                                                Same with FDR while the Japanese invaded China massacring thousands of women and children FDR still sold Japan scrap steel for their war effort. Just as he claimed the US neutral and turned away boats with thousands of refugees seeking asylum from Germany, only to be sent back to be murdered. Not till the bombing of Pearl Harbor did FDR enter into the war.

                                                LBJ basically the same he took a blind eye to civil rights but did realize change was needed before riots broke out and the poor and minorities classes revolted. With Vietnam a major problem Johnson needed support and only by creating the Great Society with improving civil rights and creating a government health care for the poor and retired (mind you FDR and the New Deal Social security)

                                                Mind you during LBJ term as president Dr King gave a peaceful solution for change, but there were other groups that will burn kill and destroy (EKA Black Panther Movement, splinter cells of the Red brigade and other subversive factions). With the US at the height of the cold war and propaganda from the communist countries portraying the USA as a racist State with images of dogs attacking people and groups being fire hosed like animals, it just enhanced an already bad view of the USA. Johnson had to create some type of strategy and plan to keep the USA from collapsing.

                                                So we can go on and I could elaborate in detail but this is old history and boring. Point is not one president or for that matter any politician did what is best for all the people, if it did not keep the nation together as a whole, and protected their best interests

                                                • 2 votes
                                                #14.18 - Fri Feb 19, 2010 7:45 AM EST
                                                Janica

                                                If there be those who would not save the Union, unless they could at the same time save destroy slavery, I do not agree with them. My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and is not either to save or to destroy slavery. If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that. What I do about slavery, and the colored race, I do because I believe it helps to save the Union; and what I forbear, I forbear because I do not believe it would help to save the Union. slavery, I do not agree with them. If there be those who would not save the Union unless they could at the same time - LINCON

                                                His goal was to preserve the union, outside forces were trying to break our country up because it was becoming to rich strong and powerful, freeing the slaves was just the propaganda they used to support the war

                                                • 2 votes
                                                #14.19 - Fri Feb 19, 2010 9:43 AM EST
                                                HoneyBee-1239445

                                                2tailpuppy- No it doesn't take 'guts' to kill innocent people because you can't handle stress. That's disgusting.

                                                The guy is no hero, he was a mentally unstable person. Too bad he didn't kill himself before acting selfishly by taking some innocent person down with him.

                                                  #14.20 - Fri Feb 19, 2010 10:00 AM EST
                                                  JaiAllen

                                                  So what are all the black folks doing walking around loose then. Quick round them up and get them bact to their rightful owners. *sarcasm*

                                                  Again wow.

                                                  It was called the 13th Amendment to the Constitution , ratified by Congress in December 1865 , The Emancipation Proclamation was a speech by Lincoln in 1862 , in which an executive order by Lincoln on September 22 , 1862 and another on December 1, 1863 in which he declared slaves in the slaveholding states which were in rebellion ONLY free. He did not free slaves in the Slaveholding states that had stayed with the Union , only in those states which were in rebellion , which had NO legal standing because he wasn't the President of the Confederacy.

                                                  WOW IS RIGHT , because I never saw so many people totally IGNORANT OF HISTORY.

                                                  The Emancipation Proclamation consists of two executive orders issued by United States President Abraham Lincoln during the American Civil War. The first one, issued September 22, 1862, declared the freedom of all slaves in any state of the Confederate States of America that did not return to Union control by January 1, 1863. The second order, issued January 1, 1863, named ten specific states where it would apply. Lincoln issued the Executive Order by his authority as "Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy" under Article II, section 2 of the United States Constitution.[1]
                                                  The proclamation did not name the slave-holding border states of Kentucky, Missouri, Maryland, or Delaware, which had never declared a secession, and so it did not free any slaves there. The state of Tennessee had already mostly returned to Union control, so it also was not named and was exempted. Virginia was named, but exemptions were specified for the 48 counties that were in the process of forming West Virginia, as well as seven other named counties and two cities. Also specifically exempted were New Orleans and thirteen named parishes of Louisiana, all of which were also already mostly under Federal control at the time of the Proclamation.

                                                  The Emancipation Proclamation was criticized at the time for freeing only the slaves over which the Union had no power.

                                                  http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/aia/part4/4h1549.html

                                                  Thanks for reminding me how little of Americas history most Americans are familiar with.

                                                  WOW !!!!!!

                                                  • 1 vote
                                                  #14.21 - Fri Feb 19, 2010 10:42 AM EST
                                                  2TailPuppy

                                                  Always remember the "winners of a war" write the history books. Yes Lincoln did the whole freeing the slaves thing (which was great and necessary).

                                                  Lincoln was a murderer and tyrant not unlike Hitler and set this country on a dangerous course. Every other country in the world eliminated slavery without millions of casualties.

                                                  • 2 votes
                                                  #14.22 - Fri Feb 19, 2010 10:47 AM EST
                                                  Psimon

                                                  Atually USA1 has the most correct answer. 2tail and JaiAllen so very wrong and confused. If it were up to you 2 we'd still be selling people. President Lincoln did have the right to free the slaves in confederate states by executive order because they had not gained independence they were revolting from the Union there for they were still under U.S. law. So again I say WOW.

                                                  • 2 votes
                                                  #14.23 - Fri Feb 19, 2010 11:57 AM EST
                                                  2TailPuppy

                                                  Every other country in the world eliminated slavery without millions of casualties.

                                                  Psimon

                                                  Confused? Sorry, that's a fact.

                                                    #14.24 - Fri Feb 19, 2010 12:00 PM EST
                                                    Psimon

                                                    North won and I'm happy because I get to sit here and rattle your cage about it. The civil war itself caused the casualties because the south succeeded from the U.S. Civil War was not about the freeing of slaves it was however a by product. I thank President Lincoln for holding together the greatest nation on the planet. I live in the south and I thank him.

                                                    • 2 votes
                                                    #14.25 - Fri Feb 19, 2010 12:13 PM EST
                                                    Psimon

                                                    btw don't go flying any planes into stuff trying to make the sout win. The war is over.

                                                    • 2 votes
                                                    #14.26 - Fri Feb 19, 2010 12:21 PM EST
                                                    JaiAllen

                                                    The Confederate States of America was a sovereign nation free from control by Lincoln , again I say wow , because once again , I have never seen anyone so devoid of knowledge of American History. The links are there and you refuse to read them which means that American History isn't the only place where you're lacking common sense.

                                                    Why didn't he free slaves in the slaveholding states loyal to the Union that never seceded ? Because he had no intention of freeing anyone , he wanted to :

                                                    1. Make slavery an issue for the war in order to make it a recuritment issue.

                                                    2. With emancipation , many blacks who escaped the south to the North where they were now free from being returned by the Fugitive Slave Act , which previously returned all slaves to their southern masters , were free to join the Union Army , which was short on manpower.

                                                    3. Caused a furor in the south as this deprived the southern slaveholders of their most valuable property next to arable land.

                                                    4. Caused an economic crisis in the south where cotton and slaves were the total sum of their wealth.

                                                    I'm tired of arguing with someone who is too lazy to even read history books and ascertain the entire picture and only argues on the same emotion that fuels the rabid right.

                                                    The south had a Congress and a President ( Jefferson Davis ) and their own Constitution and their own set of laws.

                                                    Your argument is historically inaccurate and intellectually devoid of reason. If I were you , I would get that GED , HISTORY is a great place to start.

                                                    • 2 votes
                                                    #14.27 - Fri Feb 19, 2010 12:36 PM EST
                                                    Psimon

                                                    So at what point did the south gain independence from the U.S. Was there a war that the south won or did the U.S. just grant it to them. Justy because you and your buddies go out and say you've got a Congress and a President don't mean that you are just able to ignore the laws of the U.S. South tried that got their butts kicked and were dragged back into the union. I'm glad. God Bless the USA.

                                                    • 1 vote
                                                    #14.28 - Fri Feb 19, 2010 12:46 PM EST
                                                    JaiAllen

                                                    And the Confederate States of America was recognized by the world powers of the day , Great Britain and France , both of whom loaned money to the Confederate Government because of the cotton they needed .

                                                    • 1 vote
                                                    #14.29 - Fri Feb 19, 2010 12:47 PM EST
                                                    JaiAllen

                                                    The South gained independence when they seceded and formed their own Government. Your point ? They lost , doesn't change history.

                                                    More pointless emotion here , no facts whatsoever.

                                                    • 1 vote
                                                    #14.30 - Fri Feb 19, 2010 12:49 PM EST
                                                    Psimon

                                                    Bottm line is that the South could not sucede. They did not pay their debt.

                                                    Article 6 of the constitution: "All Debts contracted and Engagements entered into, before the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be as valid against the United States under this Constitution, as under the Confederation." In Black's Law 6th Edition Dictionary. The Civil War was about Southern states seceding without first paying the debt. President Lincoln was faced with the potential loss of cotton revenue, and the possibility of losing free-hold land in the South. South tried to run out on the bill and got thumped. As I said they were still under U.S. law.

                                                      #14.31 - Fri Feb 19, 2010 1:01 PM EST
                                                      davetopper

                                                      JaiAllen

                                                      Good piece of history presented there. Should be written on the walls of the Lincoln memorial. But the good o'le US of A isn't big on truth, just big on glory.

                                                      The US always has to be presented as the good guy in history class. But as the case often was, it wasn't the good guy at all.

                                                      Lincoln did little really for slaves and blacks in general. It would be deemed a political move today just as it was then.

                                                      If there was more energy spent then doing what the words actually foretold our history, even the history in my lifetime would be truly different.

                                                      Truly different indeed.

                                                        #14.32 - Fri Feb 19, 2010 1:12 PM EST
                                                        Concerned Citizen-1303521

                                                        Psimon -

                                                        Article 6 of the constitution: "All Debts contracted and Engagements entered into, before the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be as valid against the United States under this Constitution, as under the Confederation."

                                                        You are mistaking the Articles of Confederation with the Confederate States of America

                                                          #14.33 - Fri Feb 19, 2010 2:50 PM EST
                                                          2TailPuppy

                                                          I don't applaud killing innocent people

                                                          So who's innocent?

                                                          We are all responsible.

                                                            #14.34 - Fri Feb 19, 2010 2:55 PM EST
                                                            2TailPuppy

                                                            Psimon

                                                            The South would have been just fine as a separate nation. Just as Canada is on our north.

                                                            • 1 vote
                                                            #14.35 - Fri Feb 19, 2010 2:57 PM EST
                                                            michelle maria

                                                            so you're arguing that the slaves weren't freed out of the goodness of lincoln's heart so they weren't really freed? who gives a @!$%#? lincoln may have had no original intention of freeing the slaves but it's great that it worked out that way, isn't it?

                                                            i'm so glad the south lost the war.

                                                            • 1 vote
                                                            #14.36 - Fri Feb 19, 2010 6:35 PM EST
                                                            Askari

                                                            michelle maria, perhaps the slaves gave a @!%#. Are you forgetting about the Jim Crow laws and the myriad of other segregationist/racist tactics that were used right up until the 1960s?

                                                            • 1 vote
                                                            #14.37 - Fri Feb 19, 2010 6:39 PM EST
                                                            michelle maria

                                                            so you would have preferred that they weren't freed? or was it just not enough? you think everything should have been done all at once? yeah, that would have been nice but that isn't what happened. so what are you saying? a lot of @!$%# should have been done differently. what is it you're arguing with me? i can't change the past. lincoln was the one who got the ball rolling on abolishing slavery. that was a good thing even if it wasn't everything that should have been done.

                                                            wtf?

                                                              #14.38 - Fri Feb 19, 2010 7:37 PM EST
                                                              Askari

                                                              I'm not arguing with you. I was just offended by your false remarks about Lincoln's role in ending slavery and lack of sensitivity about the despicable treatment that people of African descent endured and continue to endure long after slavery ended.

                                                              • 1 vote
                                                              #14.39 - Fri Feb 19, 2010 8:04 PM EST
                                                              michelle maria

                                                              askari: so lincoln had nothing to do with ending slavery? really? and slaves being freed because of the war wasn't a good thing? no, i don't give a @!$%# what politics were involved in giving them freedom. i'm just glad it happened. i guess you can't wrap your mind around that. but nice try at twisting my words.

                                                                #14.40 - Fri Feb 19, 2010 8:53 PM EST
                                                                usa1

                                                                Psimon. thanks for the positive feed back on y lengthy comment. It does see that many Americans will nut shell a president as the only factor in cause and result and always leave out the circumstances and repercussions of letting government go on per status quo.

                                                                2-tall is one leaving out major events such as Lincoln and the industrial revolution taking the USA from agriculture/plantation : Pastoral society to an industrial society. With this and the influx of a second wave of immigrants to support industry, slavery was no longer in thee best interests of the USAs economic, moral, and international well being. Just as Henry Ford discovered in the early twentieth century with the new Red Scare and onslaught of the European immigrants, labor force a majority in which from Eastern Europe, and his inception to create unionized labor at his Ford plants. By creating a unionized work force Ford realized this can offset the communist influence of his workers by giving them a some what socialized standard of living.

                                                                Once again it was an idea not best for the people, but best for the country as a whole, and in this case industry. A defensive strategy to protect Fords ideals of cheap production and good quality, became the cornerstone of modern american Unions, who in the past were actually beneficial for the American worker and Country as a whole

                                                                • 2 votes
                                                                #14.41 - Fri Feb 19, 2010 10:07 PM EST
                                                                Askari

                                                                michelle maria, I did NOT put any words in your mouth and you most certainly are too defensive right now to "wrap your mind around" what I said to you and consider the REALITY of the situation.

                                                                no, i don't give a @!$%# what politics were involved in giving them freedom.

                                                                I feel it's this kind of attitude that makes intentions questionable and/or dishonorable in situations such as the civil war. Just as you don't give a @!$% what politics gave slaves their freedom, Lincoln and the others didn't give a @!$% about the slaves' freedom. I think there has been PLENTY of illustration of this point earlier in the thread.

                                                                • 1 vote
                                                                #14.42 - Sat Feb 20, 2010 1:29 PM EST
                                                                2TailPuppy

                                                                "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the
                                                                blood of patriots and tyrants. It is its natural manure."

                                                                --Thomas Jefferson to William Stephens Smith, 1787.

                                                                • 1 vote
                                                                #14.43 - Sat Feb 20, 2010 2:49 PM EST
                                                                Gedde

                                                                "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is its natural manure."

                                                                --Thomas Jefferson to William Stephens Smith, 1787.

                                                                I simply love this quote and its recent resurgence in popularity, particularly because it tends to confirm the more relevant and critical nature of Jefferson's assertions.

                                                                Here is the quote in context, with emphasis added:

                                                                God forbid we should ever be twenty years without such a rebellion. The people cannot be all, and always, well informed. The part which is wrong will be discontented, in proportion to the importance of the facts misconceive. If they remain quiet under such misconceptions, it is lethargy, the forerunner of death to the public liberty. ...And what country can preserve its liberties, if its rulers are not warned from time to time, that this people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as to the facts, pardon and pacify them. What signify a few lives lost in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants.It is its natural manure.

                                                                In other words, he is saying that we will always have idiots. They will always become angry, and the less they comprehend, the more enraged they will become, and eventually they will rise up and kill a few perceived "tyrants", killing of few of themselves in the process.

                                                                His main assertion is that these futile efforts preserve liberty, not in and of themselves, as in the case of a successful revolution (which history has shown rarely preserves anything resembling liberty), but rather, as a reminder to government to better serve the public interest such that gross ignorance is defeated.

                                                                In this Jeffersonian context, the Tea Party members are the misconceived, the "wrong". It is therefore appropriate that they stupidly cloak themselves in irony by regurgitating this quotation. Manure indeed.

                                                                • 2 votes
                                                                #14.44 - Sat Feb 20, 2010 3:36 PM EST
                                                                2TailPuppy

                                                                Wow. Seek professional attention immediately.

                                                                You're pretty much an idiot huh?

                                                                • 1 vote
                                                                #14.45 - Sun Feb 21, 2010 8:34 PM EST
                                                                michelle maria

                                                                askari: and again.. i can't rewrite history. why is it you're taking issue with something that can't be changed? it happened the way it happened. i said it was better that it happened than it didn't.

                                                                you said: "I feel it's this kind of attitude that makes intentions questionable and/or dishonorable in situations such as the civil war"

                                                                yes, i said: "lincoln may have had no original intention of freeing the slaves but it's great that it worked out that way, isn't it?"

                                                                so what is your issue? i didn't give an opinion about lincoln either way. i didn't say i thought lincoln was a good guy. i didn't say he did or didn't believe in anything. all i said was that the outcome (READ: SLAVES + FREEDOM) was great. *shakes head* why you have a problem with that, i don't know.

                                                                  #14.46 - Mon Feb 22, 2010 1:18 AM EST
                                                                  Reply
                                                                  nillachoco

                                                                  He got our ATTENTION didnt he!

                                                                  • 3 votes
                                                                  Reply#15 - Thu Feb 18, 2010 9:06 PM EST
                                                                  Buckeye Voter

                                                                  He has my contempt.

                                                                  • 6 votes
                                                                  #15.1 - Thu Feb 18, 2010 11:50 PM EST
                                                                  Reply
                                                                  Askari

                                                                  Though I most certain do not condone the murderous action he took, I hope that ALL of us will pay attention to what drove him to this place as it is true for everyone on here. Take a read and re-frame the conversation around that:

                                                                  Joe Stack Manifesto

                                                                  • 3 votes
                                                                  Reply#16 - Thu Feb 18, 2010 9:18 PM EST
                                                                  Linda Luke

                                                                  His presentation with his airplane sucks but this guy should be read so thank Askari for supplying the manisfesto. There is a real problem in this country and indeed our conversation should be on this manifesto. Joe Stack gave up on life. It just wasn't worth the effort as he saw it. I'd bet many people feel the same way. Hope is pretty much gone and joblessness and homelessness are taking over while our govt feels more need to build up other countries instead of giving it's attention to this one. Joe Stack's message is very sane but very angry.

                                                                  • 2 votes
                                                                  #16.1 - Fri Feb 19, 2010 12:04 AM EST
                                                                  determined0a1

                                                                  It was selfish and insane of Stack to burn his own home and leaving behind a girl of 12 years old. Now what?

                                                                  • 1 vote
                                                                  #16.2 - Fri Feb 19, 2010 10:48 AM EST
                                                                  Reply
                                                                  davetopper

                                                                  So I'm guessing should this mans 15 minutes last as long that FOX will have him cast as a victim by the middle of next week.

                                                                  Or lob the story right under the rug because he is a domestic terrorist and not our concern.

                                                                  Our country I swear.

                                                                  He is no victim.

                                                                  • 2 votes
                                                                  Reply#17 - Thu Feb 18, 2010 9:18 PM EST
                                                                  davetopper

                                                                  Well it would seem the FOX spin machine is working the angles on this already according to the Crooks and Liars blog. They have the news feed from FOX and FOX states that this isn't an act of terrorism of any kind.

                                                                  The letter seems to fit as a threat, then there is the act, seems deliberate to me, and the target is federal, all the attributes of domestic terrorism.

                                                                  So why their spin. In the coming days, as tragic as this is, it could also get interesting on how the spin machine will be running it.

                                                                  • 1 vote
                                                                  #17.1 - Fri Feb 19, 2010 3:12 AM EST
                                                                  determined0a1

                                                                  dave,

                                                                  You are doing the same that you are accusing to Fox.

                                                                  No spin machine, this man was in a personal and mental turmoil

                                                                  In order to avoid more nonsense among us citizens, we have to force our politicians to pay their fair share.

                                                                  • 1 vote
                                                                  #17.2 - Fri Feb 19, 2010 10:49 AM EST
                                                                  davetopper

                                                                  In order to avoid more nonsense among us citizens, we have to force our politicians to pay their fair share.

                                                                  Seems fair to me and that can include the top 1% of this country that can afford a bigger hit than the middle class.

                                                                  You are doing the same that you are accusing to Fox.

                                                                  And what are you doing? Condoning his action, or supporting it?

                                                                  In another read...

                                                                  In order to avoid more nonsense among us citizens, we have to force our politicians to pay their fair share.

                                                                  Am I to read that, "by any means necessary"?

                                                                  I do not think this man was pushed by any ideology so you can get that out of your head. I haven't associated him with a group.

                                                                  But I at least condemn the means and have no sympathy for him because of it.

                                                                  Beyond that point, his wife is now a widow, his daughter no Dad, and they, no home. He burnt that down.

                                                                  At least they are alive, he could have in his irrational state killed them as well.

                                                                  • 1 vote
                                                                  #17.3 - Fri Feb 19, 2010 1:41 PM EST
                                                                  Reply
                                                                  JAVE

                                                                  The typical story from the feds says that the IRS only goes after the wealthy not the common man. What pissed this guy off enough to take this action? He does not seem wealth. He does not seem to earn enough to justify IRS action. He may of had some nutty politics, but what did he do to raise the Tax Man's ire?

                                                                  Sure the man is crazy. It is very rare, talking, digits on one hand rare, that an average citizen has taken such action.

                                                                  • 1 vote
                                                                  Reply#18 - Thu Feb 18, 2010 9:21 PM EST
                                                                  Beckyal

                                                                  The IRS goes after the common man more often than they do the wealthy. The common man cannot hire the big buck lawyers to defend them, so by going after the common man they have a higher number of people who pay.

                                                                  • 9 votes
                                                                  #18.1 - Thu Feb 18, 2010 9:31 PM EST
                                                                  2TailPuppy

                                                                  Beckyal

                                                                  You are absolutely right. They are thugs...like Hitler's Brown Coats.

                                                                  • 2 votes
                                                                  #18.2 - Thu Feb 18, 2010 9:34 PM EST
                                                                  Buckeye Voter

                                                                  He does not seem wealth.

                                                                  Bull@!$%#. They owed hundreds of thousands of dollars to the IRS. He was a tax evader who thought, for some reason, that he didn't have to play his taxes like everyone else.

                                                                  • 5 votes
                                                                  #18.3 - Thu Feb 18, 2010 11:53 PM EST
                                                                  HoneyBee-1239445

                                                                  No, that man was the thug here. Only thugs go after innocent people.

                                                                    #18.4 - Fri Feb 19, 2010 10:04 AM EST
                                                                    2TailPuppy

                                                                    > No, that man was the thug here. Only thugs go after innocent people.

                                                                    Yes, like employees who treat their customers with disdain, aloofness, disregard, belligerence and this haughty "I'm in control" attitude are thugs. (Also think TAS.) Just think of your last experience with any government employee.

                                                                    • 1 vote
                                                                    #18.5 - Fri Feb 19, 2010 10:32 AM EST
                                                                    HoneyBee-1239445

                                                                    That doesn't mean you kill someone.

                                                                    The last experience I had with a government employee was very helpful, SSI for ex-spouse's death.

                                                                    I did have a very abusive older brother who made my life hell, but I didn't kill him and I would have had an excellent excuse/defense had I chosen to do so.

                                                                      #18.6 - Sun Feb 21, 2010 2:52 PM EST
                                                                      Reply
                                                                      determined0a1

                                                                      Some people pay(s) Federal taxes, some people don't or doesn't.

                                                                      • 2 votes
                                                                      Reply#19 - Thu Feb 18, 2010 9:21 PM EST
                                                                      Buckeye Voter

                                                                      And one person doesn't, gets dismayed at how big a hole he dug for himself, and becomes a suicide killer.

                                                                      • 3 votes
                                                                      #19.1 - Thu Feb 18, 2010 11:54 PM EST
                                                                      Reply
                                                                      Steve Watts

                                                                      This is interesting timing, coming in the same week that hardcore conservatives have tried to paint the University of Alabama shooter a "left-wing extremist." Now someone commits an act of terrorism strangely reminiscent of 9/11 after publishing a manifesto that rails against big government, and suddenly it's an isolated incident, not to be indicative of others who share pieces of his views. How hypocritical can you be?

                                                                      Both the UoA shooter and the IRS crasher are fringe nutballs. Both sides need to stop clinging to tragedies as opportunities to score political points. Here's hoping those in the hospital and the one woman unaccounted for are okay.

                                                                      • 11 votes
                                                                      Reply#20 - Thu Feb 18, 2010 9:22 PM EST
                                                                      Psimon

                                                                      Actually the lady killed those folks because she was being fired and she murdered the people who fired her. The guy who crashed the plan wrote out what he was angry about, taxes and government bailouts and big government in general. The 2 are not the same. One was the murder of people she had direct relations with and his was the random targeting of people who worked in that government building.

                                                                      • 5 votes
                                                                      #20.1 - Thu Feb 18, 2010 9:33 PM EST
                                                                      Steve Watts

                                                                      And in both cases, they were disturbed individuals. Using it to criticize political opponents is a cheap shot no matter which side of the fence you sit on.

                                                                      • 5 votes
                                                                      #20.2 - Thu Feb 18, 2010 9:58 PM EST
                                                                      Psimon

                                                                      The fact is that the Bama lady was not trying to make a political statement while this guy was as was evident by his manifesto. I didn't politicize it he did, by using right wing talking points in his letter.

                                                                      • 5 votes
                                                                      #20.3 - Thu Feb 18, 2010 10:06 PM EST
                                                                      Gedde

                                                                      Wha?

                                                                        #20.4 - Thu Feb 18, 2010 10:09 PM EST
                                                                        Steve Watts

                                                                        The fact is that the Bama lady was not trying to make a political statement while this guy was as was evident by his manifesto.

                                                                        Did you read his manifesto? It was just as much a screed against unfettered capitalism as it was against government waste. Neither party can lay sole claim to his beliefs, because he was anarchist, conservative, liberal, and psychotic in equal measure. Claiming any different is a transparent attempt at using tragedy to play politics, and both sides need to be above that.

                                                                        • 6 votes
                                                                        #20.5 - Thu Feb 18, 2010 10:13 PM EST
                                                                        Psimon

                                                                        Not mad at capitalism. He was mad not at the corperations but at the fact that the companies failed and the government immediately bailed them out but came after him for taxes. To say that a guy who started 2 business was anticapitalist is insane.

                                                                        • 2 votes
                                                                        #20.6 - Thu Feb 18, 2010 10:23 PM EST
                                                                        gwen-450413

                                                                        Psimon,

                                                                        Have you bothered to read his "rant?"

                                                                        The communist creed: From each according to his ability, to each according to his need.

                                                                        The capitalist creed: From each according to his gullibility, to each according to his greed.

                                                                        What he says about health care and a few other things are pages right out of Olberman and Co. There is no evidence in here that he is conservative. There is no evidence he is liberal. There is plenty of evidence that he has had some sort of psychotic break. And actually about 1/4 of the whole thing has random snippets about health care, the Catholic church (on sentence actually), the bailouts, "big brother." The other 3/4 is just him telling his own personal saga of IRS crap.

                                                                        Baselessly injecting partisan politics into this serves no purpose.

                                                                        • 2 votes
                                                                        #20.7 - Fri Feb 19, 2010 1:13 AM EST
                                                                        JaiAllen

                                                                        He played in a country and western band , that labels him as a redneck Conservative, to " Liberals " country and western music is like Slim Whitman music to the Martians in the movie " Mars Attacks ". Had he been a Grateful Dead follower , or a Stones fan or a Black Sabbath fan , then maybe the liberal label would apply.

                                                                        Conservative , his every selfish action screamed It's all about ME , the way Conservatives do. Liberals care about the effects of actions on others , the effect of the environment on mankind and , the effect of certain political actions on the rest of the nation , Conservatives ONLY care about themselves as Stack's selfish action highlighted.

                                                                        • 1 vote
                                                                        #20.8 - Fri Feb 19, 2010 3:35 AM EST
                                                                        Janica

                                                                        DO YOUR HOMEWORK COMMIES, READ HIS ACTUAL MANIFESTO - he is not tea party, no matter how bad you want him to be, he is an angry, criminal terrorist who snapped- THATS ALL - or is your COGNITIVE DISSONANCE so thick that you refuse to see.

                                                                        =========================================================

                                                                        If you're reading this, you're no doubt asking yourself, "Why did this have to happen?" The simple truth is that it is complicated and has been coming for a long time. The writing process, started many months ago, was intended to be therapy in the face of the looming realization that there isn't enough therapy in the world that can fix what is really broken. Needless to say, this rant could fill volumes with example after example if I would let it. I find the process of writing it frustrating, tedious, and probably pointless... especially given my gross inability to gracefully articulate my thoughts in light of the storm raging in my head. Exactly what is therapeutic about that I'm not sure, but desperate times call for desperate measures.

                                                                        We are all taught as children that without laws there would be no society, only anarchy. Sadly, starting at early ages we in this country have been brainwashed to believe that, in return for our dedication and service, our government stands for justice for all. We are further brainwashed to believe that there is freedom in this place, and that we should be ready to lay our lives down for the noble principals represented by its founding fathers. Remember? One of these was "no taxation without representation". I have spent the total years of my adulthood unlearning that crap from only a few years of my childhood. These days anyone who really stands up for that principal is promptly labeled a "crackpot", traitor and worse.

                                                                        While very few working people would say they haven't had their fair share of taxes (as can I), in my lifetime I can say with a great degree of certainty that there has never been a politician cast a vote on any matter with the likes of me or my interests in mind. Nor, for that matter, are they the least bit interested in me or anything I have to say.

                                                                        Why is it that a handful of thugs and plunderers can commit unthinkable atrocities (and in the case of the GM executives, for scores of years) and when it's time for their gravy train to crash under the weight of their gluttony and overwhelming stupidity, the force of the full federal government has no difficulty coming to their aid within days if not hours? Yet at the same time, the joke we call the American medical system, including the drug and insurance companies, are murdering tens of thousands of people a year and stealing from the corpses and victims they cripple, and this country's leaders don't see this as important as bailing out a few of their vile, rich cronies. Yet, the political "representatives" (thieves, liars, and self-serving scumbags is far more accurate) have endless time to sit around for year after year and debate the state of the "terrible health care problem". It's clear they see no crisis as long as the dead people don't get in the way of their corporate profits rolling in.

                                                                        And justice? You've got to be kidding!

                                                                        How can any rational individual explain that white elephant conundrum in the middle of our tax system and, indeed, our entire legal system? Here we have a system that is, by far, too complicated for the brightest of the master scholars to understand. Yet, it mercilessly "holds accountable" its victims, claiming that they're responsible for fully complying with laws not even the experts understand. The law "requires" a signature on the bottom of a tax filing; yet no one can say truthfully that they understand what they are signing; if that's not "duress" than what is. If this is not the measure of a totalitarian regime, nothing is.

                                                                        How did I get here?

                                                                        My introduction to the real American nightmare starts back in the early '80s. Unfortunately after more than 16 years of school, somewhere along the line I picked up the absurd, pompous notion that I could read and understand plain English. Some friends introduced me to a group of people who were having 'tax code' readings and discussions. In particular, zeroed in on a section relating to the wonderful "exemptions" that make institutions like the vulgar, corrupt Catholic Church so incredibly wealthy. We carefully studied the law (with the help of some of the "best", high-paid, experienced tax lawyers in the business), and then began to do exactly what the "big boys" were doing (except that we weren't steeling from our congregation or lying to the government about our massive profits in the name of God). We took a great deal of care to make it all visible, following all of the rules, exactly the way the law said it was to be done.

                                                                        The intent of this exercise and our efforts was to bring about a much-needed re-evaluation of the laws that allow the monsters of organized religion to make such a mockery of people who earn an honest living. However, this is where I learned that there are two "interpretations" for every law; one for the very rich, and one for the rest of us\u2026 Oh, and the monsters are the very ones making and enforcing the laws; the inquisition is still alive and well today in this country.

                                                                        That little lesson in patriotism cost me $40,000+, 10 years of my life, and set my retirement plans back to 0. It made me realize for the first time that I live in a country with an ideology that is based on a total and complete lie. It also made me realize, not only how naive I had been, but also the incredible stupidity of the American public; that they buy, hook, line, and sinker, the crap about their "freedom"... and that they continue to do so with eyes closed in the face of overwhelming evidence and all that keeps happening in front of them.

                                                                        Before even having to make a shaky recovery from the sting of the first lesson on what justice really means in this country (around 1984 after making my way through engineering school and still another five years of "paying my dues"), I felt I finally had to take a chance of launching my dream of becoming an independent engineer.

                                                                        On the subjects of engineers and dreams of independence, I should digress somewhat to say that I'm sure that I inherited the fascination for creative problem solving from my father. I realized this at a very young age.

                                                                        The significance of independence, however, came much later during my early years of college; at the age of 18 or 19 when I was living on my own as student in an apartment in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania. My neighbor was an elderly retired woman (80+ seemed ancient to me at that age) who was the widowed wife of a retired steel worker. Her husband had worked all his life in the steel mills of central Pennsylvania with promises from big business and the union that, for his 30 years of service, he would have a pension and medical care to look forward to in his retirement. Instead he was one of the thousands who got nothing because the incompetent mill management and corrupt union (not to mention the government) raided their pension funds and stole their retirement. All she had was social security to live on.

                                                                        In retrospect, the situation was laughable because here I was living on peanut butter and bread (or Ritz crackers when I could afford to splurge) for months at a time. When I got to know this poor figure and heard her story I felt worse for her plight than for my own (I, after all, I thought I had everything to in front of me). I was genuinely appalled at one point, as we exchanged stories and commiserated with each other over our situations, when she in her grandmotherly fashion tried to convince me that I would be "healthier" eating cat food (like her) rather than trying to get all my substance from peanut butter and bread. I couldn't quite go there, but the impression was made. I decided that I didn't trust big business to take care of me, and that I would take responsibility for my own future and myself.

                                                                        Return to the early '80s, and here I was off to a terrifying start as a 'wet-behind-the-ears' contract software engineer... and two years later, thanks to the fine backroom, midnight effort by the sleazy executives of Arthur Andersen (the very same folks who later brought us Enron and other such calamities) and an equally sleazy New York Senator (Patrick Moynihan), we saw the passage of 1986 tax reform act with its section 1706.

                                                                        For you who are unfamiliar, here is the core text of the IRS Section 1706, defining the treatment of workers (such as contract engineers) for tax purposes. Visit this link for a conference committee report (http://www.synergistech.com/1706.shtml#ConferenceCommitteeReport) regarding the intended interpretation of Section 1706 and the relevant parts of Section 530, as amended. For information on how these laws affect technical services workers and their clients, read our discussion here (http://www.synergistech.com/ic-taxlaw.shtml).

                                                                        SEC. 1706. TREATMENT OF CERTAIN TECHNICAL PERSONNEL.

                                                                        (a) IN GENERAL - Section 530 of the Revenue Act of 1978 is amended by adding at the end thereof the following new subsection:

                                                                        (d) EXCEPTION. - This section shall not apply in the case of an individual who pursuant to an arrangement between the taxpayer and another person, provides services for such other person as an engineer, designer, drafter, computer programmer, systems analyst, or other similarly skilled worker engaged in a similar line of work.

                                                                        (b) EFFECTIVE DATE. - The amendment made by this section shall apply to remuneration paid and services rendered after December 31, 1986.

                                                                        Note:

                                                                        — "another person" is the client in the traditional job-shop relationship.

                                                                        — "taxpayer" is the recruiter, broker, agency, or job shop.

                                                                        — "individual", "employee", or "worker" is you.

                                                                        Admittedly, you need to read the treatment to understand what it is saying but it's not very complicated. The bottom line is that they may as well have put my name right in the text of section (d). Moreover, they could only have been more blunt if they would have came out and directly declared me a criminal and non-citizen slave. Twenty years later, I still can't believe my eyes.

                                                                        During 1987, I spent close to $5000 of my 'pocket change', and at least 1000 hours of my time writing, printing, and mailing to any senator, congressman, governor, or slug that might listen; none did, and they universally treated me as if I was wasting their time. I spent countless hours on the L.A. freeways driving to meetings and any and all of the disorganized professional groups who were attempting to mount a campaign against this atrocity. This, only to discover that our efforts were being easily derailed by a few moles from the brokers who were just beginning to enjoy the windfall from the new declaration of their "freedom". Oh, and don't forget, for all of the time I was spending on this, I was loosing income that I couldn't bill clients.

                                                                        After months of struggling it had clearly gotten to be a futile exercise. The best we could get for all of our trouble is a pronouncement from an IRS mouthpiece that they weren't going to enforce that provision (read harass engineers and scientists). This immediately proved to be a lie, and the mere existence of the regulation began to have its impact on my bottom line; this, of course, was the intended effect.

                                                                        Again, rewind my retirement plans back to 0 and shift them into idle. If I had any sense, I clearly should have left abandoned engineering and never looked back.

                                                                        Instead I got busy working 100-hour workweeks. Then came the L.A. depression of the early 1990s. Our leaders decided that they didn't need the all of those extra Air Force bases they had in Southern California, so they were closed; just like that. The result was economic devastation in the region that rivaled the widely publicized Texas S&L fiasco. However, because the government caused it, no one gave a @!$%# about all of the young families who lost their homes or street after street of boarded up houses abandoned to the wealthy loan companies who received government funds to "shore up" their windfall. Again, I lost my retirement.

                                                                        Years later, after weathering a divorce and the constant struggle trying to build some momentum with my business, I find myself once again beginning to finally pick up some speed. Then came the .COM bust and the 911 nightmare. Our leaders decided that all aircraft were grounded for what seemed like an eternity; and long after that, 'special' facilities like San Francisco were on security alert for months. This made access to my customers prohibitively expensive. Ironically, after what they had done the Government came to the aid of the airlines with billions of our tax dollars... as usual they left me to rot and die while they bailed out their rich, incompetent cronies WITH MY MONEY! After these events, there went my business but not quite yet all of my retirement and savings.

                                                                        By this time, I'm thinking that it might be good for a change. Bye to California, I'll try Austin for a while. So I moved, only to find out that this is a place with a highly inflated sense of self-importance and where damn little real engineering work is done. I've never experienced such a hard time finding work. The rates are 1/3 of what I was earning before the crash, because pay rates here are fixed by the three or four large companies in the area who are in collusion to drive down prices and wages... and this happens because the justice department is all on the take and doesn't give a @!$%# about serving anyone or anything but themselves and their rich buddies.

                                                                        To survive, I was forced to cannibalize my savings and retirement, the last of which was a small IRA. This came in a year with mammoth expenses and not a single dollar of income. I filed no return that year thinking that because I didn't have any income there was no need. The sleazy government decided that they disagreed. But they didn't notify me in time for me to launch a legal objection so when I attempted to get a protest filed with the court I was told I was no longer entitled to due process because the time to file ran out. Bend over for another $10,000 helping of justice.

                                                                        So now we come to the present. After my experience with the CPA world, following the business crash I swore that I'd never enter another accountant's office again. But here I am with a new marriage and a boatload of undocumented income, not to mention an expensive new business asset, a piano, which I had no idea how to handle. After considerable thought I decided that it would be irresponsible NOT to get professional help; a very big mistake.

                                                                        When we received the forms back I was very optimistic that they were in order. I had taken all of the years information to (name deleted), and he came back with results very similar to what I was expecting. Except that he had neglected to include the contents of Sheryl's unreported income; $12,700 worth of it. To make matters worse, (he) knew all along this was missing and I didn't have a clue until he pointed it out in the middle of the audit. By that time it had become brutally evident that he was representing himself and not me.

                                                                        This left me stuck in the middle of this disaster trying to defend transactions that have no relationship to anything tax-related (at least the tax-related transactions were poorly documented). Things I never knew anything about and things my wife had no clue would ever matter to anyone. The end result is\u2026 well, just look around.

                                                                        I remember reading about the stock market crash before the "great" depression and how there were wealthy bankers and businessmen jumping out of windows when they realized they screwed up and lost everything. Isn't it ironic how far we've come in 60 years in this country that they now know how to fix that little economic problem; they just steal from the middle class (who doesn't have any say in it, elections are a joke) to cover their asses and it's "business-as-usual". Now when the wealthy @!$%# up, the poor get to die for the mistakes\u2026 isn't that a clever, tidy solution.

                                                                        As government agencies go, the FAA is often justifiably referred to as a tombstone agency, though they are hardly alone. The recent presidential puppet GW Bush and his cronies in their eight years certainly reinforced for all of us that this criticism rings equally true for all of the government. Nothing changes unless there is a body count (unless it is in the interest of the wealthy sows at the government trough). In a government full of hypocrites from top to bottom, life is as cheap as their lies and their self-serving laws.

                                                                        I know I'm hardly the first one to decide I have had all I can stand. It has always been a myth that people have stopped dying for their freedom in this country, and it isn't limited to the blacks, and poor immigrants. I know there have been countless before me and there are sure to be as many after. But I also know that by not adding my body to the count, I insure nothing will change. I choose to not keep looking over my shoulder at "big brother" while he strips my carcass, I choose not to ignore what is going on all around me, I choose not to pretend that business as usual won't continue; I have just had enough.

                                                                        I can only hope that the numbers quickly get too big to be white washed and ignored that the American zombies wake up and revolt; it will take nothing less. I would only hope that by striking a nerve that stimulates the inevitable double standard, knee-jerk government reaction that results in more stupid draconian restrictions people wake up and begin to see the pompous political thugs and their mindless minions for what they are. Sadly, though I spent my entire life trying to believe it wasn't so, but violence not only is the answer, it is the only answer. The cruel joke is that the really big chunks of @!$%# at the top have known this all along and have been laughing, at and using this awareness against, fools like me all along.

                                                                        I saw it written once that the definition of insanity is repeating the same process over and over and expecting the outcome to suddenly be different. I am finally ready to stop this insanity. Well, Mr. Big Brother IRS man, let's try something different; take my pound of flesh and sleep well.

                                                                        The communist creed: From each according to his ability, to each according to his need.

                                                                        The capitalist creed: From each according to his gullibility, to each according to his greed.

                                                                        Joe Stack (1956-2010)

                                                                        2/18/2010

                                                                          #20.9 - Fri Feb 19, 2010 9:53 AM EST
                                                                          determined0a1

                                                                          Hope that our politicians and members, those with tax issues and sitting on it, can sleep well after this sad tragedy.

                                                                            #20.10 - Fri Feb 19, 2010 11:22 AM EST
                                                                            mike lonkouski

                                                                            You know, as manifestos go, that's a pretty good one.

                                                                            Great Post Stack!

                                                                            (and thank you to Janica for posting it)

                                                                            • 1 vote
                                                                            #20.11 - Sat Feb 20, 2010 11:27 AM EST
                                                                            Reply
                                                                            Sog-510945

                                                                            Terrorism.

                                                                            • 3 votes
                                                                            Reply#21 - Thu Feb 18, 2010 9:27 PM EST
                                                                            nillachoco

                                                                            GOD be with us all....................................

                                                                            • 3 votes
                                                                            Reply#22 - Thu Feb 18, 2010 9:32 PM EST
                                                                            usa1

                                                                            Say what you want about this man, though crashing a plane into a building isnt the way to get things done, his frustration is genuine. Our government past has always forgotten about contracted employees and independent contractors. We are usually the least noticed but expected to pay the most in exchange for low or none benefits.

                                                                            Though crashing a plane gave him notoriety, and without doing so he would have went unnoticed, perhaps this is a wake up call for the IRS and all of corporate America abusing its work force and independent contractors

                                                                            To all of those who only read what fits, let me reiterate I do not condone this mans actions but do understand his frustration and what brought him to this point of confusion

                                                                            • 8 votes
                                                                            Reply#23 - Thu Feb 18, 2010 9:35 PM EST
                                                                            ilanrab

                                                                            This man's legitimate frustrations are shared by tens of millions of Americans. The IRS was clearly responsible for this poor soul's death. However, big government is there to feed off people like this guy. All they will have to do now is produce new TV programs to show how "wonderful" the IRS agents are (as they have done in the past), to beef up the IRS buildings' security (using the American taxpayer's tax dollars to do it), attack aviation or General Aviation with new draconian laws, and "raise" the ordinary American citizen's taxes in the process.

                                                                            Isn't big government wondeful, folks?

                                                                            • 6 votes
                                                                            #23.1 - Thu Feb 18, 2010 11:25 PM EST
                                                                            Digital-904078

                                                                            well, if our own citizens are going to be commiting acts of terrorism, trying to fly planes into and blow up buildings where hundreds of innocent men and women are working then I guess we are going to have to raise taxes to protect our own citizens. I could have sworn that that was a reason taxes were collected already personally.

                                                                              #23.2 - Fri Feb 19, 2010 2:57 AM EST
                                                                              Miss Monaco

                                                                              I could have sworn that that was a reason taxes were collected already personally.

                                                                              I prefer more money back on my unemployment over more security at the IRS building...personally.

                                                                                #23.3 - Fri Feb 19, 2010 3:36 AM EST
                                                                                HoneyBee-1239445

                                                                                ...responsible for this poor souls death... BS!

                                                                                He was a tax evader and mentally unstable who took out innocent people. He was able to afford a piano, and plane, and those things ain't cheap. He's a despicable murderer, not some 'poor soul'.

                                                                                  #23.4 - Fri Feb 19, 2010 10:12 AM EST
                                                                                  Reply
                                                                                  Gedde

                                                                                  It's tempting to blame the Right for implicitly encouraging this, and doubtless future similar incidents, through its increasingly bitter invective that is couched in terms of violence, whether it tries to pass it off as metaphor or dismiss it as hyperbole fueled by righteous anger.

                                                                                  But I can't quite get there, personally. From the limited information available, and from the content of his final screed, it strikes me as an increasingly paranoid business man that chose to fight serial battles with tax agencies (not just the I. R. S.), that he couldn't possibly win. If he had decades of issues with the I. R. S., it certainly implies he shared responsibility for those conflicts.

                                                                                  I'm coming down on the side of a paranoid act of retribution for perceived persecution; almost apolitical.

                                                                                  • 5 votes
                                                                                  Reply#24 - Thu Feb 18, 2010 9:36 PM EST
                                                                                  Psimon

                                                                                  I'm coming down on the side of a paranoid act of retribution for perceived persecution; almost apolitical

                                                                                  That's called the teaparty movement.

                                                                                  • 5 votes
                                                                                  #24.1 - Thu Feb 18, 2010 9:40 PM EST
                                                                                  Gedde

                                                                                  Well, certainly the movement does seem to project an air of persecution, but it is a fallacy to suggest that since they share that single trait, they share others.

                                                                                  • 5 votes
                                                                                  #24.2 - Thu Feb 18, 2010 9:43 PM EST
                                                                                  Psimon

                                                                                  They didn't share just a single trait.

                                                                                  He was anger at being taxed without representation or so he felt just like the tea party. He felt the government was too big just like the tea party. he felt that the federal governent should be broken up just like the tea party.

                                                                                  • 5 votes
                                                                                  #24.3 - Thu Feb 18, 2010 9:55 PM EST
                                                                                  ilanrab

                                                                                  He was not the only one feeling this way. These types of issues pop up especially during harsh economic times. Big brother keeps using his whip endlessly, on the back of the ordinary person, no matter what.

                                                                                  • 1 vote
                                                                                  #24.4 - Thu Feb 18, 2010 11:29 PM EST
                                                                                  Gedde

                                                                                  Big brother keeps using his whip endlessly, on the back of the ordinary person, no matter what.

                                                                                  I think this an inaccurate, and singularly unhelpful, comment. He essentially admitted that he engaged in scams designed to avoid taxes. His problems with the I. R. S. are more than likely of his own making. Had he simply paid his share, his normal non-oppressive share, he would not have been pursued over the years.

                                                                                  • 2 votes
                                                                                  #24.5 - Thu Feb 18, 2010 11:54 PM EST
                                                                                  Digital-904078

                                                                                  What whip? What metaphorical whip is this? It seems the man didn't pay his taxes. I could have some sympathy for him except for this dick move. The IRS does what any other lender does who is not getting their money, fees, penalties, interest. I've had it done to me and I paid the money I owed back quick as I could so that it would not get worse. This is the price tag on living in our great country.

                                                                                    #24.6 - Fri Feb 19, 2010 3:01 AM EST
                                                                                    Reply
                                                                                    nillachoco

                                                                                    BUSH was the PROBLEM, OBAMA is the ANSWER he is not Superman but he definately is doing the best he can with what he was left so get off it.......

                                                                                    Obama still will have my vote

                                                                                    • 6 votes
                                                                                    Reply#25 - Thu Feb 18, 2010 9:37 PM EST
                                                                                    ilanrab

                                                                                    Isn't the democratic party the one that raises taxes to no end, while using the IRS to do its dirty work for it?

                                                                                    • 2 votes
                                                                                    #25.1 - Thu Feb 18, 2010 11:31 PM EST
                                                                                    Digital-904078

                                                                                    Yes, the democratic party is the one that cleans up after the Republicans when their VooDoo economics screw our country again. Seriously man, sorry that living in this country can't be free for yah.

                                                                                    • 1 vote
                                                                                    #25.2 - Fri Feb 19, 2010 3:03 AM EST
                                                                                    Reply
                                                                                    Beckyal

                                                                                    http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p3744.pdf
                                                                                    Please go the IRS's FY 2011 Budget and look at their performance measures. I believe that many of you would be surprise.

                                                                                      Reply#26 - Thu Feb 18, 2010 9:40 PM EST
                                                                                      JR3349

                                                                                      Thanks for the link - I wondered where my missing $1000000 in taxes went! "The Internal Revenue Service strives to maintain the fairest and most effective system of voluntary tax compliance in the world." ROTFLMAO!! Voluntary??? Fairest?? PUUUULLLLEEEEESSSEEEEE!!!!

                                                                                      • 2 votes
                                                                                      #26.1 - Fri Feb 19, 2010 1:24 AM EST
                                                                                      mtherof3

                                                                                      yes, thanks! I loved that as well "voluntary tax compliance"!

                                                                                      If it was fair, it would be a flat %.

                                                                                      • 1 vote
                                                                                      #26.2 - Fri Feb 19, 2010 1:35 AM EST
                                                                                      sovereign man

                                                                                      It's only going to get worse.

                                                                                      This sort of thing is only going to happen again until our government changes.

                                                                                      • 1 vote
                                                                                      #26.3 - Fri Feb 19, 2010 4:20 AM EST
                                                                                      Gedde

                                                                                      Changes how? You mean like until it invents and launches satellites that orbit the earth while scanning brain waves to determine which of us are paranoid and planning baseless attacks on low-level Federal employees with no power to effect national policy?

                                                                                      • 1 vote
                                                                                      #26.4 - Fri Feb 19, 2010 4:54 AM EST
                                                                                      Reply
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