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More Americans' credit scores sink to new lows

Mon Jul 12, 2010 12:48 AM EDT
us-news, business, us, scores, credit-scores, new-lows
Eileen Aj Connelly, AP Personal Finance Writer

Chart compares U.S. credit score prior to the recession and from April

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NEW YORK — The credit scores of millions more Americans are sinking to new lows.

Figures provided by FICO Inc. show that 25.5 percent of consumers — nearly 43.4 million people — now have a credit score of 599 or below, marking them as poor risks for lenders. It's unlikely they will be able to get credit cards, auto loans or mortgages under the tighter lending standards banks now use.

Because consumers relied so heavily on debt to fuel their spending in recent years, their restricted access to credit is one reason for the slow economic recovery.

"I don't get paid for loan applications, I get paid for closings," said Ritch Workman, a Melbourne, Fla., mortgage broker. "I have plenty of business, but I'm struggling to stay open."

FICO's latest analysis is based on consumer credit reports as of April. Its findings represent an increase of about 2.4 million people in the lowest credit score categories in the past two years. Before the Great Recession, scores on FICO's 300-to-850 scale weren't as volatile, said Andrew Jennings, chief research officer for FICO in Minneapolis. Historically, just 15 percent of the 170 million consumers with active credit accounts, or 25.5 million people, fell below 599, according to data posted on Myfico.com.

More are likely to join their ranks. It can take several months before payment missteps actually drive down a credit score. The Labor Department says about 26 million people are out of work or underemployed, and millions more face foreclosure, which alone can chop 150 points off an individual's score. Once the damage is done, it could be years before this group can restore their scores, even if they had strong credit histories in the past.

On the positive side, the number of consumers who have a top score of 800 or above has increased in recent years. At least in part, this reflects that more individuals have cut spending and paid down debt in response to the recession. Their ranks now stand at 17.9 percent, which is notably above the historical average of 13 percent, though down from 18.7 percent in April 2008 before the market meltdown.

There's also been a notable shift in the important range of people with moderate credit, those with scores between 650 and 699. The new data shows that this group comprised 11.9 percent of scores. This is down only marginally from 12 percent in 2008, but reflects a drop of roughly 5.3 million people from its historical average of 15 percent.

This group is significant because it may feel the effects of lenders' tighter credit standards the most, said FICO's Jennings. Consumers on the lowest end of the scale are less likely to try to borrow. However, people with mid-range scores that had been eligible for credit before the meltdown are looking to buy homes or cars but finding it hard to qualify for affordable loans.

Workman has seen this firsthand.

A customer with a score of 679 recently walked away from buying a house because he could not get the best interest rate on a $100,000 mortgage. Had his score been 680, the rate he was offered would have been a half-percent lower. The difference was only about $31 per month, but over a 30-year mortgage would have added up to more than $11,000.

"There was nothing derogatory on his credit report," Workman said of the customer. He had, however, recently gotten an auto loan, which likely lowered his score.

Studies have shown FICO scores are generally reliable predictions of consumer payment behavior, but Workman's experience points to one drawback of credit scoring: the automated underwriting programs lenders use can't always differentiate between two people with the same score. Another consumer might have a 679 score because of several late payments, which could indicate he or she is a bigger repayment risk. But a computer program that depends just on score won't consider those details.

On a broader scale, some of the spike in foreclosures came about because homeowners were financially irresponsible, while others lost their jobs and could no longer pay their mortgages. Yet both reasons for foreclosures have the same impact on a borrower's FICO score.

In the past too much credit was handed out based on scores alone, without considering how much debt consumers could pay back, said Edmund Tribue, a senior vice president in the credit risk practice at MasterCard Advisors. Now the ability to repay the debt is a critical part of the lending decision.

Workman still thinks credit scores alone play too big a role. "The pendulum has swung too far," he said. "We absolutely swung way too far in the liberal lending, but did we have to swing so far back the other way?"

© 2010 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.
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  • Public Discussion (73)
Kshark

*Just banging my head over and over into the table. People spending outside of their means, having no idea how to be fiscally responsible.*

Time to cut up the credit cards.

  • 5 votes
Reply#1 - Mon Jul 12, 2010 1:20 AM EDT
Shawn [a.k.a. "Shadow"]

Time to cut up the credit cards.

The only reason to cut up your credit card is if you are financially irresponsible.

The credit card I have costs nothing and mails me a check each month based on the spend of the month. It is paid off monthly in full and I put every single minute transaction on it, including utility bills...so I usually get a check for between 50-75 a month.

That's a "bonus" of $600-$900 a year.

Couple that with the idea that you keep your funds in a Money Market Account and take out what you need to pay the bill when it's due. That way you earn a month's plus interest every single month as well...interest on that account last month was 7.45.

That adds ANOTHER $90 a year to the bucket, just for being financially sound and looking for ways to make your money work for you.

  • 3 votes
#1.1 - Mon Jul 12, 2010 2:13 AM EDT
Tired_of_ExtremistsDeleted
Doug-375144

Your score only goes down if you are not paying your obligations , did you spend too much(like the gov't) or did you buy too much , like a house that was beyond your means , did you have to have the new car ?

  • 1 vote
#1.3 - Mon Jul 12, 2010 9:11 AM EDT
Shawn [a.k.a. "Shadow"]

Soooo...you're spending about $5000 to $8000 each month with your credit card, you have a money market account and are trying to rationalize your experience as having anything to do with people who make much less money than you? Eat much cake?

So alter the numbers that best suit your particular income...if you cut it in half, you make $450 a year. The point is, if someone is sensible about the finances and looks for ways to have their money work FOR THEM, there is no reason to drastically "knee jerk" and cut up the credit card...

The problem is that instead of looking to people that have found and are working with viable solutions, they instead are quick to berate them, as if they have themselves have never experienced hardship. You learn through watching others and seeing what worked for them. It's immediate "evolution" at it's finest...

See...there was a time where I was on the streets...and where I had to eat, what was, essentially trash to survive. I know a life that many (like yourself I presume) will never know (and I would never wish it on my worst enemy), but through watching, learning, and extreme hard work and sacrifice, I am where I am today (and at 39, still with a lifetime of experience to learn/pass on).

If you don't want to go this route, by all means, don't...but I'm sure there are a couple people on the vine that would love to see a FREE couple hundred dollars added to their wallet every year.

  • 3 votes
#1.4 - Mon Jul 12, 2010 9:36 AM EDT
oldecrankyman

Your score only goes down if you are not paying your obligations

Wrong. Your score goes down if you use too much of your available credit, even if you pay your bill in full each month. Your score goes down if you take out a loan. Your score goes down if you apply for a loan, but are turned down. Your score goes down if a company reduces your limit because of where you shop. There are LOTS of ways that your score can go down.

  • 8 votes
#1.5 - Mon Jul 12, 2010 10:11 AM EDT
Shawn [a.k.a. "Shadow"]

There are LOTS of ways that your score can go down.

This is very true - you need to be careful about your credit if you are looking to preserve a high credit rating. Your available credit and it's ratio to salary, your available credit and it's ratio to usage, etc....

  • 3 votes
#1.6 - Mon Jul 12, 2010 10:20 AM EDT
Kshark

Shawn [a.k.a. "Shadow"]--

Time to cut up the credit cards.

The only reason to cut up your credit card is if you are financially irresponsible.

No cutting up your credit cards and ONLY using the money you actually have IS financially responsible.

  • 1 vote
#1.7 - Mon Jul 12, 2010 12:13 PM EDT
Shawn [a.k.a. "Shadow"]

No cutting up your credit cards and ONLY using the money you actually have IS financially responsible.

That brings into the play the difference between the person that simply uses their money to buy things, and the person that uses their money to buy the identical things AND make money...you still spend the identical amount, but in the end, the person that uses their money to MAKE money ends up ahead.

But if someone is incapable of controlling themselves with a credit card, I agree that I wouldn't recommend that type of behavior, as it does require strict financial discipline.

  • 3 votes
#1.8 - Mon Jul 12, 2010 1:31 PM EDT
NoobPatrol

No cutting up your credit cards and ONLY using the money you actually have IS financially responsible.

A CC is a way to transfer cash. If you don't spend more than you have it isn't an issue. Pay off your CC every month and it isn't a problem either. You ony carry a balance if you're retarded.

  • 2 votes
#1.9 - Mon Jul 12, 2010 3:56 PM EDT
Shawn [a.k.a. "Shadow"]

A CC is a way to transfer cash. If you don't spend more than you have it isn't an issue. Pay off your CC every month and it isn't a problem either. You ony carry a balance if you're retarded.

Yes....thank you!

  • 2 votes
#1.10 - Mon Jul 12, 2010 4:23 PM EDT
hvymtl83

Bingo Shawn and Noob. My wife and I have always lived like that. The end result is our house is paid for (we haven't had a mortgage since 1992), we pay in cash for our cars, we carry no balance on our credit cards and our liquid net worth now places us in the top 1%. This wasn't just luck, it was good financial management. My wife was laid-off 3 times in the 82 - 84 recession and I was laid-off twice. It wasn't much more than a blip to us. Your house is not an ATM. If you have to take a loan out for some gizmo or vacation, you really need to question whether you need it. And credit cards should be treated as 30 days same as cash. If you ain't got the cash, don't buy the trash.

  • 3 votes
#1.11 - Tue Jul 13, 2010 10:25 AM EDT
Reply
I choose to believe.....Deleted
I choose to believe.....Deleted
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bkoz

Hey Kshark, my neighbor was over for coffee the other day and told me she was doing OK, there were still checks in her checkbook! LOL!

  • 2 votes
Reply#5 - Mon Jul 12, 2010 1:52 AM EDT
Tony Wlliams

For years lenders have used a persons credit score as a club. Those who could least afford it had to pay back at the highest rate they could get away with charging. Those who could afford it got sweetheart deals and where offered rewards. Those rewards where made possible by over charging the poor. Then when the crash happened they canceled the cards for the poor and raised the rates on the middle class while dropping their credit line. That credit line drop also lowered their credit scores. People who never missed a payment had their scores dropped because some idiot at a desk said cut the credit line for Joe Blow or canceled the card. I said it 2 years ago and I'm saying it again:

The entire credit score rating system needs to be revamped. It needs to be based on payment history and all the other items that are allowed to effect it needs to be removed.

  • 10 votes
#6 - Mon Jul 12, 2010 2:27 AM EDT
NoobPatrol

The poor are riskier investments. They used to charge appropriately based on risk (ie, interest rate). They also have to entice people with higher credit to use their products. That is where rewards come into play.

    #6.1 - Mon Jul 12, 2010 3:59 PM EDT
    Tony Wlliams

    Does that apply to those who payed on time any paid off the balance in full in order to improve their credit rating while living within their means?

    I know a few who did just that by using their card to take care of all their bills and then put their entire check on the card.

    • 2 votes
    #6.2 - Mon Jul 12, 2010 4:18 PM EDT
    NoobPatrol

    If they pay their bills on time every month, their scores will improve. It doesn't happen over night.

    I know a few who did just that by using their card to take care of all their bills and then put their entire check on the card.

    I do something like this except that my entire check isn't applied to the card (unless I had some large expense).

    You can be poor and have a good credit score if you pay your bills on time, all the time. It takes a long time though.

    That said, it's still can be like a house of cards. The poor are more susceptible to falling behind or defaulting since they might not have the back up finances to cover a job loss.

      #6.3 - Mon Jul 12, 2010 4:25 PM EDT
      Tony Wlliams

      And a job loss places them in the same bracket as the person who made twice as much but was laid off.

      In other words it's a lame excuse to blame those who made less.

      Excuses excuses and any reason to place blame.

      • 2 votes
      #6.4 - Mon Jul 12, 2010 4:50 PM EDT
      NoobPatrol

      Those who made more might have more reserves and be able to pay off their card without the CC company knowing they were laid off. If you're poor and lose your job and have a balance, the CC company is probably going to lose money. If you're not poor and lose your job, you can probably pay off the card. If you're not poor and can't pay off the card, you get screwed like the poor guy.

        #6.5 - Mon Jul 12, 2010 4:54 PM EDT
        Tony Wlliams

        Oh realy?

        Name one!

        Name someone who paid off their card before paying for the roof over their head?

        I'd like to meet them.

        • 2 votes
        #6.6 - Mon Jul 12, 2010 5:01 PM EDT
        NoobPatrol

        Me. I have never had a balance on my credit card that I couldn't pay off.

        • 1 vote
        #6.7 - Mon Jul 12, 2010 5:04 PM EDT
        Tony Wlliams

        Did you lose your job and pay the card before you paid for the roof over your head?

        Don't blow smoke and tell me it's cloudy. Don't try to make it look like someone who lost their job through no fault of their own wasn't being responsible either because it's the frist sign of someone who is using B.S. talking points.

        Over the last 2 years peoples credit lines where cut without notice even when they paid in full each month and some had their cards cancled because they paid it off each month. Some kept a small balance on their cards only to find when they made their next payment they no longer had an available amount left on it. Don't blame them for the B.S. the card company pulled.

        • 4 votes
        #6.8 - Tue Jul 13, 2010 12:54 AM EDT
        NoobPatrol

        I did. But I also did things that others don't do.

        1) I didn't use the credit limit as an extension to my income.

        2) I had savings built up.

        • 1 vote
        #6.9 - Tue Jul 13, 2010 1:24 AM EDT
        Tony Wlliams

        So did a lot of others but savings only last so long. I lost my job thanks to out sourcing in 2001. I had 6 months in savings. My next didn't pay as much but I barely got the position in time before what I had saved would have ran out. We live below our means and always have. Some people can't and you can't hold it against them when they weren't trying to live above what they earned.

        If you have a good job count your blessings but don't stick your nose so far in the air patting yourself on the back that if it starts to rain you risk drowning.

        • 4 votes
        #6.10 - Tue Jul 13, 2010 1:50 AM EDT
        NoobPatrol

        We live below our means and always have. Some people can't and you can't hold it against them when they weren't trying to live above what they earned.

        That is the key so many don't do and then blame it on CC when the house of cards come crumbling down. They may attempt to live within their means, but never below it.

          #6.11 - Tue Jul 13, 2010 9:25 AM EDT
          Tony Wlliams

          That's just it you where blaming those with problems with their CC as being their fault. Some people had their rates raised without notice or their available credit line dropped. The lower credit line drops your credit score. That drop was not their fault but the person sitting behind a desk who decided to raise the rate and lower the line for someone who never missed a payment. People who paid in full suddenly found they no longer had a credit card. The stories you can look up on WRAL.COM cover Business owners in this area who got screwed and AMEX was the biggest one screwing them over.

          One of the worst that I remember reading about was a Pizza owner. In order to track purchases and store cost he had all operations cost charge to the AMEX card and then paid the bill in full each month. Purchase orders where set for auto payment and a card he never kept a balance on was canceled without notice. His auto order for resupply was rejected. It cost him 2 days of business profits just to get product and find out what was going on.

          • 1 vote
          #6.12 - Tue Jul 13, 2010 5:39 PM EDT
          NoobPatrol

          Those case are unfortunate, but there have been a few things going on.

          1) The government cracked down and had the CCs increased minimum payments. This allows consumers to get out of debt quicker.

          2) Credit requirements were tightened. The people who could have a high credit line before don't qualify for the same line today. The CC's dropped their limits to what they could get today. That was underhanded if they did it without warning.

          Doing 2) it would cause their credit score to decrease due to having a higher utilization.

          3) They did drop customers due to tighter credit requirements. It is extremely underhanded when they do this without warning.

          CC's have also started requiring membership fees if you don't use your card enough.

          If you aren't keeping close attention, you will get burned in this game.

          If you do pay close attention, you can (or could) make a profit off the game (legally). It requires more dilligence than most people will keep though.

            #6.13 - Tue Jul 13, 2010 5:48 PM EDT
            NoobPatrol

            CC companies also do stupid things that screw themselves. They extend credit cards to people who shouldn't have them. Then they play dumb and state that they couldn't know that the people wouldn't pay. If anyone should be able to figure out if a person is likely to pay, it's them. They have your stated income, monthly stated debt payment, and your credit report. It shouldn't be hard to figure out that you shouldn't give credit to some people.

              #6.14 - Tue Jul 13, 2010 5:56 PM EDT
              Tony Wlliams

              Glad to see your taking a broader view of the problem. The companies own just as much blame as those who didn't know better or thought they could scam the game.

              • 1 vote
              #6.15 - Tue Jul 13, 2010 11:13 PM EDT
              Reply
              warder

              Welcome to the United States of Corporations. Corporate welfare is revered, individual welfare is frowned upon. I have thought for a long time that the credit rating system is rigged against the individual citizen and rigged in favor of corporations. If an idividual has a financial misstep, he winds up paying for it for a very long time. Have you tried to rent an apartment lately? Corporate landlords use your rating to gouge a larger deposit out of you or refuse to rent to you if your score does not fall within a certain range. But if you have a good score, see if that corporate landlord requires a smaller deposit. You can read a lot of writings complaining and carping about individuals on welfare but not about corporations on welfare. Pretty soon, citizens are going to do something about being kicked around and stepped on by the system. You see some level of it now from individuals who are underwater in over priced homes and just walking away, saying, "No more, I've had it up to here." And Kshark, give your brain a chance. The whole housing thing was a scam designed to ruse individuals into grossly overpriced homes and blame them via remarks like yours to cover the scam. The powers knew what the outcome would be but they were not concerned because it was a profit scam. And the claim that banks were forced to loan to unqualified borrowers by the government is also a pretext cover full of rooster poop. Start examining what is coming out of the HYPO clubs elite (Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Oxford) who come up with programs like FICO. They operate in parallel to RICO and the American public is their smorgasbord. Financial America is now being run by a bureaucratic oligarchy and they do not like, favor or help those who fall upon hard times. You get punished for that.

              • 10 votes
              Reply#7 - Mon Jul 12, 2010 2:35 AM EDT
              oldecrankyman

              Considering the fact that credit scores are now used to screen for employment, insurance rates, housing, etc., it's past time for some real regulation. If credit scores were just for obtaining credit, that would be one thing, but they now affect every aspect of most people's lives.

              Orwell would have been proud.

              • 8 votes
              #7.1 - Mon Jul 12, 2010 10:55 AM EDT
              Reply
              Fed up in Missouri

              Credit is a scam. Mine's shot, and I don't care!!! I'm too poor to borrow money anyway. Somebody should really take the US government's checkbook away. I'm pretty sure they're writing bad checks. lol :)

              • 10 votes
              Reply#8 - Mon Jul 12, 2010 2:46 AM EDT
              Tony Wlliams

              LOL :)

              • 3 votes
              #8.1 - Mon Jul 12, 2010 3:00 AM EDT
              Fed up in Missouri

              Tony I knew you'd appreciate my view! lol :)

              • 2 votes
              #8.2 - Tue Jul 27, 2010 11:41 AM EDT
              Reply
              bkoz

              Credit is not a scam if used properly. Rule #1, don't spend what you don't have, if you can't pay your credit card off in a reasonable amount of time, like every month, you shouldn't have one in the first place. If you carry more than one card you're really asking for trouble.

              • 2 votes
              Reply#9 - Mon Jul 12, 2010 3:16 AM EDT
              warder

              It is a scam. Governments do not follow the rules you state, corporations do not follow those rules and city and other public entities do not follow those rules. And even if those rules were strictly followed by individuals, your credit could and would be reduced or card cancelled at the whim of the creditor. Additionally, if the credit companies cannot make any profit off someone like you, they will just not do business with you. Your pedestrian logic does not prove it is not a scam.

              • 6 votes
              #9.1 - Mon Jul 12, 2010 6:21 AM EDT
              Super Ultra

              Here's the thing, if you have plenty of money to spend on a credit card bill, you don't really need a credit card. Credit has pretty much become a racket. You pay someone extra money to access money you don't really have in the first place. Sounds like a bad deal to me. I have zero credit cards and that's the way I like it.

              • 3 votes
              #9.2 - Mon Jul 12, 2010 10:32 AM EDT
              Shawn [a.k.a. "Shadow"]

              You pay someone extra money to access money you don't really have in the first place.

              Who are you paying to use a credit card?!? There are zero charge credit cards so you pay nothing for them, and as noted above (#1.1) they actually pay you cash to use them. Use them wisely and they can actually make you money on money that you would be spending anyway. Pay them off monthly and you pay nothing for the ability to not have to carry cash.

                #9.3 - Mon Jul 12, 2010 10:36 AM EDT
                Super Ultra

                You'll pay interest on them and finance fees, and most people aren't going to turn around and pay off the whole balance every month, because most people that need to use credit don't have that kind of money lying around in the first place and it becomes a vicious cycle. I'm very glad that you seem to have the ultimate wonderful credit card, but that's not exactly most people's experience with them.

                Also, don't get the big deal about not having to carry cash because almost everyone has a credit/debit card now that gives you pretty much all the advantages and none of the extra B.S. Either way, not running out today and getting a bunch of credit cards. I'll keep it simple and spend money I actually have and be done with it.

                • 2 votes
                #9.4 - Mon Jul 12, 2010 10:42 AM EDT
                Shawn [a.k.a. "Shadow"]

                You'll pay interest on them and finance fees, and most people aren't going to turn around and pay off the whole balance every month, because most people that need to use credit don't have that kind of money lying around in the first place and it becomes a vicious cycle.

                There are no interest and finance fees because it's paid off every month.

                The argument of "they'll use it and won't have the money to pay it off"...that's called financial irresponsibility. Those that don't have the money that, as you say, 'need to use credit' would end up AHEAD if they would simply use it wisely and strategically...it actually works in your favor if you let it - or if you don't...then you might as well just flush the money down the drain.

                If I have $100 in my hand and and my options are pay in cash and spend the $100, or pay with credit and put that same $100 bill in the bank so that one month from now they will take the $100, and give me back $1 (thereby saving money with the purchase)...why WOULDN'T you choose that option?

                If people can actually be financially responsible about their money...it's not a concern. The problem comes when people spend the $100 on the credit card...and then take that $100 bill and buy something else with it. Those people shouldn't be trusted with money in the first place (and helps to explain part of the financial mess we're in today).

                  #9.5 - Mon Jul 12, 2010 10:56 AM EDT
                  Shawn [a.k.a. "Shadow"]

                  Either way, not running out today and getting a bunch of credit cards. I'll keep it simple and spend money I actually have and be done with it.

                  All I can say to that type of logic...think of every single penny you spend in cash for an entire year...car, phone, cell phone, all utilities, groceries, etc...even the $1 you spend for a breakfast sandwich.

                  Add up every single transaction for a full year. Every nickel and dime spent everywhere you shop throughout the entire year...

                  Now take 1.5% of that number.

                  You just lost that much money. Every year....

                  No one is telling you to spend money you don't have...in fact, I say NEVER spend that which you don't have. But use your money to work for you to MAKE money...that's what I'm saying.


                    #9.6 - Mon Jul 12, 2010 10:59 AM EDT
                    Fed up in Missouri

                    bkoz I'm glad life is so simple for you. Let's eat cake!!! lol

                    • 3 votes
                    #9.7 - Tue Jul 27, 2010 11:43 AM EDT
                    Reply
                    loogiequeen

                    What does and does not cause a FICO score to rise or fall is evidence that the whole scoring system is driven by banks and credit card companies to maximize their profits. For example if you have 10 credit cards with $500 charged on each one, but that $500 is below 30% of your credit limit on each card, your score will rise. But if you have the total of $5,000 all on ONE credit card, and that balance is more than 30% of your credit limit on that card, then your score falls, suggesting that it is somehow more "responsible" to have 10 credit cards than just one. If the consumer closes a credit card account, it lowers the score, suggesting that taking responsibility for one's finances by closing accounts is bad and something to be punished for.

                    In addition, those people who have maintained good credit all their lives, then have been forced into bankruptcy due to illness and staggering medical bills are penalized the same way on their credit scores as those people who filed for bankruptcy due to financial irresponsibility. The practice of using credit scores to determine rates charged for auto insurance, for example, is another huge scam giving insurance companies an excuse to irrationally charge people more for insurance.

                    The FICO system as it stands is little more than a manipulative scam to maximize profits for credit card and insurance companies. Kshark, I am happy for you that life has been predictable and kind to you in the financial arena. May you continue to be employed, healthy, wise, and stable in your marriage relationship (if you are in one) because if any unforseen hardship causes your credit score to suffer, you will have to bang your own head over your own "stupidity".

                    • 7 votes
                    Reply#10 - Mon Jul 12, 2010 3:38 AM EDT
                    Solidarity Nite

                    lets buy all our stuff on credit cards and never pay them back!!

                    lets buy a house for a million dollars at the peak of a housing bubble then whine and default when the property values go down and the house is worth really half or less than the mortgage that was got for it

                    most people with bad credit aren't down on there luck and aren't screwed by credit card companies they consciously and deliberately made bad choices and don't want to take responsibility for their own actions.. the rest of us who aren't clowns are paying for there lack of adult behavior

                    my sympathies to those FEW who were genuinely down on their luck lost jobs lost a loved one had an illness in the family.. we would be able to help out those people if all the scammers weren't in the line up with their hands out first and fore most

                    • 2 votes
                    Reply#11 - Mon Jul 12, 2010 3:50 AM EDT
                    loogiequeen

                    Those "FEW"? Top five reasons for bankruptcy filings are:

                    1) Unemployment

                    2) Credit card burden

                    3) Natural disasters and lack of insurance

                    4) Ending relationships

                    5) Illness/injury

                    One of these reasons supports your argument, that of credit card burden, but also take into consideration that the credit card burden often is secondary to the occurence of the other four top reasons for bankruptcy filings.

                    • 4 votes
                    #11.1 - Mon Jul 12, 2010 4:07 AM EDT
                    Solidarity Nite

                    ending relationships seems like a valid reason to not pay off debts? really?

                    I see people claiming hard ship all the time when they don't really have any.. if you really believe all those reasons I have some nice water front property for sale lol

                    nearing seeded this really good article you mite want to read Biggest Defaulters on Mortgages Are the Rich

                    I have plenty of sympathy for people who are honestly down on there luck cuz some times bad stuff happens. if it wasnt for all the scammers out there like I said we would be able to help out those people. but the scammers are first in line and those squeaky wheels get the grease.

                    • 1 vote
                    #11.2 - Mon Jul 12, 2010 4:34 AM EDT
                    loogiequeen

                    "Ending relationships" means divorce. Say your spouse wants a divorce. You are legally responsible for debts incurred during the marriage. If the marriage ends for reasons out of your control, you are STILL responsible for the mutual debt, whether you can now afford it as a single person or not.

                    You have nice waterfront property for sale? Hmmmm, very old joke. How about discussion without insults? Makes you much more credible.

                    • 4 votes
                    #11.3 - Mon Jul 12, 2010 4:43 AM EDT
                    Solidarity Nite

                    don't incur big debts during your relationship or ever and they won't be a big burden on you

                    pretty simple

                    its not as if I havent had bad circumstances in which I accumulated debts I had a bad accident and it cost me.. here's the diff between me and people who default on their debts.. I PAID MINE

                    • 1 vote
                    #11.4 - Mon Jul 12, 2010 1:02 PM EDT
                    Reply
                    Linda Luke

                    I see this discussion will go on as the have's and the have nots will always disagree, until the have's get to experience loss of control by a society that deems it.

                    • 5 votes
                    Reply#12 - Mon Jul 12, 2010 7:17 AM EDT
                    WatchTheOtherHand

                    Having a good credit score is not really something to be all that proud of. It rates how much debt you are willing to finance, not how fiscally responsible you actually are. I have been paying cash for everything now for a decade and my credit score has probably dropped off considerably because of it. I don't borrow money not even for cars.

                    Of course, since I don't borrow money, I don't care much what my credit score is either. To keep a high score, you have to keep a lot debt and pay interest on it. To me, that isn't a very bright thing to do.

                    • 5 votes
                    Reply#13 - Mon Jul 12, 2010 7:25 AM EDT
                    Gina-789277

                    So by your logic, I should really save every cent I have, because without credit let's forget about a mortgage, i need to pay cash. Let's hope and pray you always have "cash" ready, but when you don't a credit card can save your ass. Life happens. Emergencies happen. Whether or not credit is a scam I keep my score as high as possible. This ensures I can get lower rates on a car, house, even renting requires good stable credit. By your logic, if I want to rent, I better have a years worth of rent in cash, cuz no one will let me in without credit. Not everyone is lucky enough to have cash......

                      #13.1 - Mon Jul 12, 2010 8:18 AM EDT
                      WatchTheOtherHand

                      If you make monthly payments on anything you can choose to use cash just as easily. All it takes it planning it ahead of time. That $300 a month you make on your car payment is no different than the $300 I deposit into my 'major purchases' account each month. It sits untouched earning interest for years, then when I go buy a car I pay for it from that account. My 'rate' is far better. I earned interest on the money I used to buy the car and I didn't have to pay 4-6% more for the car because I had to pay someone else to use their money.

                      All it takes is planning ahead of time. In the long run its much cheaper. As far as mortgages go, trust me, if you walk in with 20-40% down... there isn't a bank out there that is going to turn down your loan.

                      • 2 votes
                      #13.2 - Mon Jul 12, 2010 10:25 AM EDT
                      Super Ultra

                      I pretty much do the same thing Watch. I've been getting along just fine without credit for years and years. No need to break a trend. Also, the places I've rented don't care if you have no credit, they just don't want bad credit....especially unpaid or late rent somewhere else.

                      I know some things are easier with credit, but the lack of debt can give you a really really nice sense of well being. My appliances are paid for, furniture, etc. and when times take a dip, no one's coming to call with the repo man, and that's just the way I like it.

                      • 1 vote
                      #13.3 - Mon Jul 12, 2010 10:35 AM EDT
                      Gina-789277

                      Sounds good, but my husband works in construction, and sometimes the money isn't there until a job is done.....

                      • 2 votes
                      #13.4 - Mon Jul 12, 2010 10:47 AM EDT
                      Reply
                      WILDWONDERFUL

                      This is the area where Obama and the Democrats have been the biggest hypocrites . They have done nothing. The so called Credit Reform Act is symbolism over substance. The credit scoring system is like a Rubik's cube. It is always being changed in order to extract more interest out of the consumer. The scoring system is completely and I mean completely corrupt.

                      • 3 votes
                      Reply#14 - Mon Jul 12, 2010 8:07 AM EDT
                      Gina-789277

                      True, but when your credit score is down you get screwed even more. Lose lose situation.

                      • 1 vote
                      #14.1 - Mon Jul 12, 2010 8:19 AM EDT
                      WILDWONDERFUL

                      I agree and the system is designed to keep finding ways to lower your score

                      • 1 vote
                      #14.2 - Mon Jul 12, 2010 10:24 AM EDT
                      JaiAllen

                      Even after the article states that credit has nothing to do with Obama , some " I hate Obama " bandwagon jumper still chimes in with disjointed rhetoric.

                      Read the article next time.

                      • 3 votes
                      #14.3 - Mon Jul 12, 2010 9:33 PM EDT
                      Reply
                      Dog_Blue

                      Did you ever think the entire FICO system is just a hugh scam. First an individual's entire life seemingly depends on it, but yet, The actual calculation is held a secret by Fair Issac. Sort of a misnomer because there doesn't seem to be anything fair about it. Secondly scores can decline for things which are not indicative of the abilit or willingness to pay backcredit such as closing accounts, not using excessive credit. Third creditors make much more revenue depending on lowering scores. Thenthere is all of the "pile ons" like higher rates for auto insurence, no employment (sort of ironic) etc. Seems like if congress really wanted to do "financial" reform that would have meanigful implications they would start with the Fair Issac monopoly.

                      • 5 votes
                      Reply#15 - Mon Jul 12, 2010 9:59 AM EDT
                      WILDWONDERFUL

                      Dog

                      You are more than right , they keep changing the rules all the time.

                      • 3 votes
                      #15.1 - Mon Jul 12, 2010 10:26 AM EDT
                      Reply
                      mycountry

                      FICO scoring system is a tool to keep all of us in a state of SLAVERY. It controls every aspect of our lives. You have all pointed to cause and effect of the stupid scoring system, but the bottom line is that it's a tool used by greedy, self centered power players to control us into submission. (I know people with high FICO that would kill to keep their scores from climbing down).

                      Educate yourself, stop beliving the banks and pay CASH whenever possible.

                      May God bless America and strike down the evil banks and cooperations.

                      • 4 votes
                      Reply#16 - Mon Jul 12, 2010 10:43 AM EDT
                      JaiAllen

                      Obviously banks and other lending institutions are going to have to review and revise their lending policies or continue to lose money. Interest and other fees from loans are a large part of their profit and are an essential part of the economy. As long as credit is stagnated, the economy will be also.

                      Perhaps a auto loan that required a credit score of 750 five years ago should be rated at a 650 , and home loans should be revised as well, or credit as we know it in the United States of America is dead. Considering the erosion of the middle class in America , there's not enough new debtors joining the middle class to make up for the losses caused by the recession.

                      Massive changes are in order , or failure of a lot more banks is in the future.

                      • 2 votes
                      Reply#17 - Mon Jul 12, 2010 9:31 PM EDT
                      NoobPatrol

                      Credit as we knew it in the last decade is dead. It should be since it was a credit bubble.

                      • 2 votes
                      #17.1 - Mon Jul 12, 2010 9:48 PM EDT
                      JaiAllen

                      Without credit , the economy collapses.

                      • 1 vote
                      #17.2 - Tue Jul 13, 2010 12:47 PM EDT
                      NoobPatrol

                      The credit of the last decade wasn't real. It was artificailly cheap money.

                      • 1 vote
                      #17.3 - Tue Jul 13, 2010 1:10 PM EDT
                      Solidarity Nite

                      Without credit , the economy collapses.

                      true statement actually but not exactly an argument in favor of credit. only reason the economy would collapse with out credit is cuz so many goods are purchased with credit.. with imaginary make-believe money that just kind of floats around out there and doesn't really exist. take away credit and the whole house of cards falls down because the illusion can no longer be maintained

                      look around you next time you go out

                      most of those new cars are on loans or leases

                      vast majority of homes on huge mortgages

                      who really owns any thing these days

                      wheres the real money

                      • 1 vote
                      #17.4 - Tue Jul 13, 2010 1:20 PM EDT
                      Reply
                      oneforall

                      Figures provided by FICO Inc. show that 25.5 percent of consumers — nearly 43.4 million people — now have a credit score of 599 or below, marking them as poor risks for lenders.

                      It appears the the FICO credit police are killing off the bank's customers at an alarming rate. Since they can't "hook" the kids anymore, until they're old enough to know better, I wonder who is going to pick up the tab when all of the "deadbeats" are gone and no one is left except the "preferred" customers.

                      • 2 votes
                      Reply#18 - Mon Jul 12, 2010 11:54 PM EDT
                      E Hall-1909469

                      We bail out the credit dolers and they still hold us hostage! Did they care that hard working Americans are still being laid off by the thousands? Do they care that the economic woes they feed on will be non existent and them out of job if they don't start doing things differently? I don't want fancy cars, a big house that I will never live in because I have to work 80 - 100 hrs a week to pay for it, a nanny, and five star vacations, I just want to be able to get out of this mess and have a future for my children! DOWN WITH FICO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

                      • 2 votes
                      Reply#19 - Tue Jul 13, 2010 10:21 AM EDT
                      cabaraoke

                      I'm curious what affect the millions of fathers owing child support and being laid off has had on the numbers. Not knowing there is free legal help available in every state to get their support modified. they fall into arrears, which trashed their credit. Even those who do get a motion to modify, it takes a year to get a hearing date, by which time they are thousands in debt.

                        Reply#20 - Tue Jul 13, 2010 11:14 AM EDT
                        E Hall-1909469

                        It isn't just fathers, but anyone who pays child support can call their local child support office and request a modification and it "doesn't take years." Regardless of how much anyone brings in, if you owe child support, a percentage of every dollar should go to the child to aid in their support, something is better than nothing.

                          #20.1 - Tue Jul 13, 2010 2:17 PM EDT
                          Reply
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