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Pelosi will seek to stay as House Dem leader

Fri Nov 5, 2010 4:51 PM EDT
politics, us, house, pelosi, leadership, speaker-nancy-pelosi
Charles Babington, Associated Press
< PreviousNext >
showing 1 of 5 photos
<p>FILE - In this Nov. 2, 2010 file photo, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi of Calif., waits to speak in Washington. Pelosi says she will try to keep her Democratic leadership post despite massive election losses that cost her party the House majority. (AP Photo/Alex Brandon, File)</p>

FILE - In this Nov. 2, 2010 file photo, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi of Calif., waits to speak in Washington. Pelosi says she will try to keep her Democratic leadership post despite massive election losses that cost her party the House majority. (AP Photo/Alex Brandon, File)

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WASHINGTON — Despite widespread complaints about massive losses that will put Democrats in the minority, Speaker Nancy Pelosi said Friday she will try to stay on as leader of her party in the House.

The decision exposed a rift between Pelosi's liberal allies and the dwindling number of moderate Democrats, who feel besieged and eager for substantive and symbolic changes in direction after Tuesday's Republican rout. It also is likely to trigger leadership battles farther down the ladder.

Pelosi, the nation's first female speaker, said many colleagues urged her to seek the post of minority leader in the new Congress that convenes in January. That will be the Democrats' top post, because Republicans, who grabbed more than 60 Democratic-held seats Tuesday, will elect the next speaker. It will be John Boehner of Ohio, who will swap titles with Pelosi if she succeeds in her bid.

"We have no intention of allowing our great achievements to be rolled back," Pelosi, 70, said in a letter to her colleagues.

Allies said Pelosi would not make the bid unless she felt she had the votes. Some cautioned, however, that House members vote by secret ballot when electing the leaders of their respective parties at the start of each new Congress. Pelosi's caucus is more heavily liberal now that many moderate Democrats lost on Tuesday, but even some Pelosi admirers are distressed by the magnitude of the losses.

Several moderates, and even some longtime Pelosi supporters, had openly criticized her in their re-election campaigns, and had urged her to step aside. Pelosi's Friday announcement caught some off guard.

Rep. John Yarmuth, D-Ky., had told a Louisville TV station on Thursday, "as good a leader as she has been, I don't think she's the right leader to take us forward."

He reversed field Friday after she announced her intentions, and after a senior Pelosi ally, Rep. George Miller of California, called him.

Pelosi "has proven time and time again that she is able to build consensus in a caucus comprised of members from all across the ideological spectrum," Yarmuth said.

Other House Democrats held their ground.

Rep. Joe Donnelly, D-Ind., said he was "disappointed that Speaker Pelosi is going to seek the position of Minority Leader." North Carolina Rep. Larry Kissell's office said he hopes Pelosi "will change her mind and step aside."

Reps. Dan Boren of Oklahoma and Mike Ross of Arkansas also said they opposed Pelosi.

They were among the many House Democrats whom Republicans criticized for their loyalty to the California liberal, who was a forceful though generally well-liked speaker. During her four years as Speaker, Pelosi used all her political muscle to enact contentious measures such as President Barack Obama's health care overhaul.

Republicans were giddy in learning the news.

Republican National Committee Chairman Michael Steele, in a meeting with reporters, put his hands over his head and applauded. "My breath is taken away by that announcement," he said, grinning.

In a statement, White House spokesman Bill Burton said the president appreciates the work of Pelosi and the Democratic leadership team "who have been great partners in moving the country forward" and he looks forward to working with them.

Pelosi's announcement set off a likely battle for the No. 2 Democratic leadership job, now held by Majority Leader Steny Hoyer of Maryland. The party's third-ranking leader, House Whip Jim Clyburn of South Carolina, said he will try to keep the job, which will become the second in command when Democrats become the minority.

If Clyburn — the House's highest-ranking African-American — prevails, Hoyer would be forced out of the leadership ranks for the first time in many years.

Hoyer said he would make a decision after consulting with lawmakers, adding, "I have received an outpouring of support from Democratic colleagues who have told me that I should remain in our party's leadership."

Hoyer is more centrist than Pelosi, and the two have long had a cordial but somewhat wary relationship.

Pelosi's bid presumably will keep her atop the Democratic caucus, which will number about 190 members next year. But it would mark a big drop from being speaker, which carries tremendous power to influence legislation and is second only to the vice president in the line of presidential succession.

Among those defending her was Rep. Jesse Jackson Jr., D-Ill. "We're in a political storm," he said, "but we don't need to adopt an 'any leader in a storm' mentality."

Several Democratic lawmakers in conservative districts had vowed to oppose Pelosi as speaker, but some of them lost their re-election bids all the same.

One survivor, Rep. Heath Shuler of North Carolina, had said he might challenge Pelosi because the party needs a more moderate leader. Shuler noted that he lost his job as Washington Redskins quarterback in 1997 after the team performed poorly.

As the magnitude of Tuesday's election losses sunk in, even some longtime supporters of Pelosi said she needed to step aside as the party leader.

"I voted for everything she asked me to vote for," said Rep. Albio Sires, D-N.J. "You know, sometimes in this business it's difficult to know when to move on."

"With all the losses that we had with governors and all the redistricting that's going to be done, we don't need the target," Sires said, referring to the once-a-decade House redistricting process about to begin nationwide.

If Pelosi remains as the Democrats' House leader, it's possible the party will absorb historic election losses without making significant leadership changes. In the Senate, Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., will keep his post.

Pelosi's decision also may enable Republicans to keep demonizing her as an emblem of Democratic liberalism, as they did in so many campaigns this fall.

___

Associated Press writers Philip Elliott, Andrew Taylor, David Espo, Ben Evans, Henry C. Jackson, Julie Pace and Stephen Ohlemacher contributed to this report.

© 2010 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.
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  • Charles Babington's Column, All of Newsvine
  • Groups: 112th Congress, 2010 Elections, American_Politics, DemGuys, Democrats, FIRED UP DEMOCRATS!, Left of Center, Rational Progressive Party
  • Regions: Washington DC
  • Public Discussion (205)
Jump to discussion page: 1 2 3
Smokie-788412

Another politician that does not know the meaning of, No we don't want you anymore!! Well if she does stay and gets elected the Democrats will have another big problem to add to their list.

  • 21 votes
#1 - Fri Nov 5, 2010 5:11 PM EDT
Mike-475880

I hope this bulldog of a Democrat stays on and gives the Republicans hell. Nancy can take a lot of @!$%# and keeps on fighting. Good for her.

  • 11 votes
#1.1 - Fri Nov 5, 2010 5:36 PM EDT
paxildog

Every minute she is around gives the republicans more fuel and hurts the democratic party. She should go home and stay drunk on our tax dollar paid for railroad through her vineyard and never return. She's worse than any republican could ever be.

  • 14 votes
#1.2 - Fri Nov 5, 2010 5:46 PM EDT
witchrunner

Two points about Pelosi: First of all, whether you like her or not and whether you like where she stands on the issues or not, she does hold her party together. Yes, she is a bully, that is why they passed health care destruction and cap and tax. So, from the standpoint of getting the votes from the Congressmen and women of her party, she does that. That being said, she has forced her party so far to the left that they are dropping like flies.

Although she is annoying and arrogant and everything else that everyone has said about her, I hope she gets the dem leadership post. That will guarantee that not even the RINOs will try to work with the dems. Hopefully, the repubs will understand what this election was about and lean heavily towards the right. Actually, simple principles such as shrinking government, lowering taxes and balancing the budget, along with building a strong national defense are not extreme right-wing nut principles, they are middle of the road, middle American policies. These are the policies that Pelosi opposes. So, the longer she is there in power, the more seats the dems will lose!

  • 3 votes
#1.3 - Fri Nov 5, 2010 6:01 PM EDT
huskergal

Ah, I am so glad she is staying. We need someone with vision.

  • 4 votes
#1.4 - Fri Nov 5, 2010 6:02 PM EDT
paxildog

Yup. She sees that fire ridden place she is headed to in the afterlife. Sorry, I just can't stand her as a human being at all.

  • 9 votes
#1.5 - Fri Nov 5, 2010 6:05 PM EDT
Rhazes

She has an approval rating of like 10% she needs to go. Keeping her in charge is not change and not what the people want. Pelosi is the GoPs greatest fundraiser.

This is another chance for the Democrats do what the majority wants and they will fail at it like they do everything else because nothing changes in Washington.

  • 10 votes
#1.6 - Fri Nov 5, 2010 6:08 PM EDT
Fred G. from N.C.

If Nancy stays in charge it will increase the chances of Obama being a one term wonder. While I haven't been a big fan of the President I sure don't want him to be a one term wonder enough to wish for more of comrade Nancy's "leadership". Of course if the Dem's are stupid enough to keep her in charge they'll deserve what they get in 2012.

  • 5 votes
#1.7 - Fri Nov 5, 2010 7:17 PM EDT
Z1P2

Another politician that does not know the meaning of, No we don't want you anymore!! Well if she does stay and gets elected the Democrats will have another big problem to add to their list.

She won her re-election campaign, and ALL of the democrats that opposed her and didn't vote with her, lost their re-election campaigns. The message the voters sent is clear... if you're a democrat, you can't lean too far to the middle/right without losing your base which put you in power to begin with.

  • 4 votes
#1.8 - Fri Nov 5, 2010 7:22 PM EDT
brock661

She could care less what anyone thinks,she has an overblown ego and whats worse is she is arrogant with a large dose of ignorance mixed in.She is all about power and letting go of her title as house leader is eating at her psychee.Do you really think she wants to reliquish her privileges that come with it(air force jets at her beckon,3 or 4 car motorcades whenever she leaves the house or goes anywhere,her own secret cervice detail ,$100,000 liqour tab on government jets)Its all about power for this lady,and it went rite to her head!!!!!

  • 5 votes
#1.9 - Fri Nov 5, 2010 8:58 PM EDT
Bill-Weeks

She is the gift that keeps on giving.

Isn't it interesting that both Liberals and Conservatives agree on this for different reasons.

  • 5 votes
#1.10 - Fri Nov 5, 2010 9:26 PM EDT
Lisa Schneider

I heard that after her announcement, Webster's is officially changing the definition of "Delusional" in their dictionary. They are going to make it real easy:

World English Dictionary

delusion (dɪˈluːʒən)

— n

1.

a mistaken or misleading opinion, idea, belief, etc: he has delusions of grandeur

-will be replaced with "Nancy Pelosi."

2.

psychiatry illusion See also hallucination a belief held in the face of evidence to the contrary, that is resistant to all reason

-will be replaced with simply "see Nancy Pelosi."

3.

the act of deluding or state of being deluded

-will be replaced with "Nancy Pelosi."

de'lusional

— adj

-see nancy Pelosi

de'lusive

— adj

-see Nancy Pelosi

de'lusively

— adv

-See Nancy Pelosi

de'lusiveness

— n

-See Nancy Pelosi

delusory

— adj

-see Nancy Pelosi

  • 6 votes
#1.11 - Fri Nov 5, 2010 9:47 PM EDT
Rixar13

Speaker Nancy Pelosi said Friday she will try to stay on as leader of her party in the House.

Nancy Pelosi has my support and vote...

  • 2 votes
#1.12 - Fri Nov 5, 2010 10:25 PM EDT
Mike-475880

witchrunner

she has forced her party so far to the left

What a joke. You wish the current Dems were left leaning. Today's Dems are so far right compared to the past,they look like Ronald Reagan. Dems need to get back to their liberal roots and stop imitating the Repubs.

  • 3 votes
#1.13 - Fri Nov 5, 2010 10:56 PM EDT
chouchou

Smokie-788412

This woman -Pelosi has no shame and she does not understand how to move on gracefully. Like Obama, she still does not get it.

  • 8 votes
#1.14 - Fri Nov 5, 2010 11:06 PM EDT
Lisa Schneider

Mike...thank you. I don't even know if we can call it "right"...to me it is so far off the spectrum, it has no recognizable label...how any liberal or left of center person can support their agenda is beyond me...it just doesn't make any sense.

  • 5 votes
#1.15 - Fri Nov 5, 2010 11:07 PM EDT
TiG.

Unbelievable

Nancy Pelosi now is my archetype for the narcissistic, power-seeking politician.

  • 5 votes
#1.16 - Sat Nov 6, 2010 12:39 AM EDT
Z1P2

She could care less what anyone thinks

Don't you mean, YOU could care less what anyone thinks because she wasn't on your side you're not going to like her no matter what?

Everyone in here complaining about her right now, would be perfectly happy with her if she were on your side of the isle. The sooner you realize that, the sooner you'll realize how petty and useless all this back and forth about her is.

  • 3 votes
#1.17 - Sat Nov 6, 2010 4:01 AM EDT
Roryanne

Upon her exit as SOH, Congress' approval rating was 11%, if not lower. Even your side didn't like her. Is she more or less clueless than Obama?

  • 4 votes
#1.18 - Sat Nov 6, 2010 11:02 AM EDT
VetteLover

Pelosi will seek to stay as House Dem leader

She has no intention of giving up her private 757, her limo's and all the power.

  • 2 votes
#1.19 - Sat Nov 6, 2010 1:05 PM EDT
Roryanne

private 757, her limo's and all the power

Or her condo, but what I want to know is, will they televise the moment when she has to hand over her mallet to Boehner?

What are the chances Time would put that picture on the cover of their next issue? LOL It would actually make me go out and buy my first issue.

  • 3 votes
#1.20 - Sat Nov 6, 2010 1:20 PM EDT
VetteLover

NP: "you will have to pry my gavel out of my cold dead hands"! And, I am keeping the @!$%#ing Jet too"!!

  • 3 votes
#1.21 - Sat Nov 6, 2010 2:08 PM EDT
Soval-1219303

Kinda sad that the righties above are so invested in smearing Pelosi that they can't even get the facts about the transplantation and security needs of the Speaker of the House. I wonder if the even know who it was that established those heightened measures in the fist place.

  • 3 votes
#1.22 - Sat Nov 6, 2010 2:58 PM EDT
Roryanne

The only thing relevant enough to remember about Pelosi is the "Drop Dead Troops" bill.

  • 3 votes
#1.23 - Sat Nov 6, 2010 3:44 PM EDT
Reply
KyleN

The extremist tone set by the Democratic leadership in 2008 setup the eventual fall. I'm surprised they haven't learned the lesson and want to double down on the strategy. Perhaps I'm pre-mature and the full caucus will not select Pelosi.

  • 9 votes
Reply#2 - Fri Nov 5, 2010 5:17 PM EDT
Mike-475880

What extremist tone?

  • 2 votes
#2.1 - Fri Nov 5, 2010 10:59 PM EDT
Lisa Schneider

Just read HCR law or Cap n Trade bill...you will need not look further than that for definition of extreme...funny, all Dem campaigns across country had a common theme: opponents "extreme" when Dems trying to hold seats who voted for these are the epitome of same. Perhaps Webster's will change def on that too...extreme: just see recent addition- "Obamacrat."

  • 4 votes
#2.2 - Fri Nov 5, 2010 11:11 PM EDT
Mike-475880

Pish posh, neither of your examples come close to anything extreme. Unless you consider covering nearly 30 mil previously uninsured individuals somehow extreme. If it is, then we have nothing further to talk about.

  • 2 votes
#2.3 - Fri Nov 5, 2010 11:41 PM EDT
Concerned Citizen-1698205

And probably half of those will be illegals.

  • 1 vote
#2.4 - Fri Nov 5, 2010 11:45 PM EDT
Lisa Schneider

Unless you consider covering nearly 30 mil previously uninsured individuals somehow extreme.

As a matter of fact, that's exactly what I consider FORCING 30 mill to BUY insurance they cannot afford...I also consider it to be unconstitutional, as Obama himself said it is not a tax.

30 mil are only covered IF they can afford it...if they can't, they get a huge fine, administered thru the IRS...extreme? Oh yeah...I find that exceptionally extreme.

Next up Cap n Trade Pelosi got passed in house...that one takes extreme to a whole new level.

  • 2 votes
#2.5 - Sat Nov 6, 2010 12:34 PM EDT
Roryanne

You're right Lisa, and if all this stuff was so great for America, why didn't the dems that lost the election, run on what they voted for? Gee that's a tough one, give me a minute...

Because Americans didn't want any of it!

  • 3 votes
#2.6 - Sat Nov 6, 2010 9:57 PM EDT
TiG.

Roryanne

(FYI. After a few months your name becomes frozen; you will not be able to change it forever.)

  • 2 votes
#2.7 - Sat Nov 6, 2010 10:51 PM EDT
Roryanne

FYI: My name's still there; I just thought I'd add to it to celebrate Tuesday's victory.

  • 1 vote
#2.8 - Sat Nov 6, 2010 11:49 PM EDT
TiG.

Roryanne

I was saying that NV removes the ability for you to change your name after a while. Just letting you know so you do not get stuck with a name you do not want.

  • 2 votes
#2.9 - Sun Nov 7, 2010 12:17 AM EDT
brock661

She is 3rd in line for the presidency,that is way too close and really scary,could you imagine a Pelosi vision of this country,gay section of the military,(all of whom are the generals)wouldnt wanna descrriminate against any of them ,so promote them all.Automobiles that ran on sol;ar power that had a limit of 30 miles perday,If you work farther that 30 miles from your home,you should either move closer,get another job or pay a large fee to some govt environmentalst group,also food stamps would be the same as cash,You know Pelosi herself said that Food Stamps are the best way to stimulate the economy.Also raising taxes to protect endangered species before any human cosideration is thought about!!Face it humans are at the top of the Food chain,eventually we may be the only thing left in 5000years but by god The delta Smelt and the Caloifronia Condor will survive

  • 3 votes
#2.10 - Sun Nov 7, 2010 2:18 AM EST
TiG.

To me the biggest problem with Pelosi is not her ideology but rather her arrogance. She examplifies the aristocrat - she has a vision for how she wants to shape the USA and she will pursue her vision regardless of the wishes of the American people. Pelosi, in her mind, knows better than the majority of the electorate.

  • 5 votes
#2.11 - Sun Nov 7, 2010 10:35 AM EST
Roryanne

I just heard that dems are coming out in opposition of Pelosi. If they would have done this years ago, they might have had a fighting chance in 2012.

  • 4 votes
#2.12 - Sun Nov 7, 2010 11:26 AM EST
Bill-Weeks

You know, Nancy Pelosi is extraordinarily bad for America. In the Minority Leadership position she will be visible enough to remind us how bad she is for America, while remaining far from any material influence over the direction of our country.

  • 2 votes
#2.13 - Wed Nov 10, 2010 12:27 AM EST
Reply
Wade-512031

I hope the wicked witch of the west stays we need a constant reminder from her and Reid of why we fired so many DEMOS.

  • 12 votes
Reply#3 - Fri Nov 5, 2010 5:18 PM EDT
Z1P2

Funny how it was 100% of the dems that voted against her agenda that lost their jobs while less than 50% of those who voted with her agenda lost their jobs.

This is politics not rocket science. If you lean too far to the middle that you lose your base, you lose the election. If you lean too far to the edge that you lose the middle, then you lose the election as well. Not rocket science folks.

  • 2 votes
#3.1 - Sat Nov 6, 2010 4:23 AM EDT
Reply
tired of government-1186407

This woman has her own twisted agenda, she cares nothing about the American people! But I guess she feels we are tooooo stooopid to know what is good for us.

  • 16 votes
Reply#4 - Fri Nov 5, 2010 5:19 PM EDT
Fearless Leader-2158343

But I guess she feels we are tooooo stooopid to know what is good for us.

Well, we usually say 'voting against your own self interest' but that's another way of putting it.

  • 1 vote
#4.1 - Fri Nov 5, 2010 6:02 PM EDT
chouchou

tired of government-1186407 4,

Excellent! And spot on!

  • 3 votes
#4.2 - Sun Nov 7, 2010 2:30 AM EST
Reply
Field MarshallDeleted
SAtownMytown

Pelosi seems to take a beating from everybody no matter what she does.

I have to admit i'm hoping she stays just because of the badgering she takes. we need everyone to keep trying, and there are plenty on both sides that have given up. Very little politicians have taken this kind of heat and stayed with the program, so.....

Stay the course, Pelosi.

  • 5 votes
Reply#6 - Fri Nov 5, 2010 5:24 PM EDT
Radio Free America

I agree. Stay Congresswoman Pelosi.

  • 4 votes
#6.1 - Fri Nov 5, 2010 5:38 PM EDT
Mollybrown-2448196

Agreed and drive yourself right off that cliff.....Grand Finale!!!!!

  • 4 votes
#6.2 - Fri Nov 5, 2010 6:35 PM EDT
jaina 1950

I am conflicted. As a woman I respect the heck out of her strength. Right or wrong, she has become the embodiment of all that is wrong with our Party. It's unfair and ignorant, and I really hate that she has become a target of clueless yahoos, but the fact that she is perceived to be an enemy negates her effectiveness in the public arena. Uppity women threaten the power structure in ways that men refuse to even admit. I think it stinks; but I think she should quietly use her power under the radar. These are ugly times in which we live,

    #6.3 - Sat Nov 6, 2010 2:04 AM EDT
    Field MarshallDeleted
    TiG.

    Uppity women threaten the power structure in ways that men refuse to even admit

    The misogyny card? I just realized that I have not noticed others trying to defend Pelosi this way. That, in hindsight, is rather surprising. Good for us!

    The problem with Pelosi is NOT her gender.

    • 3 votes
    #6.5 - Sat Nov 6, 2010 10:57 PM EDT
    brock661

    The dems have to have a scape goat,Pelosi set herself up for it perfect,the problem is,she is a passionate liberal who thinks gays are special and that global warming is the end of the world,and that Food Stamps is a good way to stimullate the economy,also her district represents the largest bastion of extreme liberals in this whole country,San Fransisco,where I think that a statue of pelosi will be raised next to

    • 3 votes
    #6.6 - Sun Nov 7, 2010 2:32 AM EST
    Reply
    Stardust-649419

    Hit the road you botoxed old bag....or will you miss your free trips home? I'm dam tired of paying your dead weight freight. (Imagine this skank as President in the event the other two croak....jesus, what a dam nightmare)!!!

    • 13 votes
    #7 - Fri Nov 5, 2010 5:25 PM EDT
    LS-415070

    Do you seriously believe she is the only politician, either Republican or Democrat, who ever abused their power??? Puhleezzzzeeee!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    • 1 vote
    #7.1 - Fri Nov 5, 2010 8:32 PM EDT
    Star3

    No-----but she's the most annoying one.

    • 4 votes
    #7.2 - Fri Nov 5, 2010 11:44 PM EDT
    jaina 1950

    Oh Stardust-you are such a mean-spirited person. How can you sleep?

    • 1 vote
    #7.3 - Sat Nov 6, 2010 2:08 AM EDT
    Roryanne

    skank - now there's a word I haven't heard in decades...it fits her perfectly! That's what I thought, here are your two choices if Obama got impeached or resigned...Biden or Pelosi? Holy Cow!

    • 2 votes
    #7.4 - Sat Nov 6, 2010 9:59 PM EDT
    arkpdx

    Biden was obama's hedge against early removal from office.

    • 2 votes
    #7.5 - Sun Nov 7, 2010 12:13 AM EDT
    jaina 1950

    Roryanne-enlighten me on the rules of, and reasons for, impeachment. I don't think that because you personally disagree qualifies. But I could be wrong.

      #7.6 - Sun Nov 7, 2010 10:55 PM EST
      Roryanne

      Well, we know from Wild Billy, that a POTUS who lies to the grand jury gets it, but stays to romp again in the oval office.

      I hold Obama responsible for the deaths of people in Arizona, by illegal immigrants.

      But then I think being clueless is an impeachable defense. Either way, Biden would be the POTUS!

      Enlighten yourself, but please don't tell us about it.

      • 2 votes
      #7.7 - Mon Nov 8, 2010 7:13 AM EST
      huskergal

      the deaths of people in Arizona, by illegal immigrants.

      If I remember correctly, the loss of jobs to illegal immigrant and legal immigrant alike, being on welfare,, etc were all imaginary hobgoblins told by Clinton(D) and the Republicans for covering up the jobs that were being lost due to downsizing and to plants closing so that corporations could have a better bottomline. Sorry you can't hold Obama accountable for the deaths in Arizona. He is not the one who fell for these imaginary hobgoblins. The people did and caused the problem themselves because of fear.

        #7.8 - Wed Nov 10, 2010 9:34 AM EST
        Roryanne

        How is Obama not responsible for those NOW, that are being killed by illegal immigrants when he refuses to protect the citizens of the country he's supposed to be leading?

        He mocks the citizens of Arizona, its governor, and the immigration law that the federal government is supposed to reinforce?

        Yeah, being that Arizona is #2 on the list of kidnappings in the world, there is nothing for Arizona citizens to fear from illegal immigrants.

        You've got to be kidding!

        • 3 votes
        #7.9 - Wed Nov 10, 2010 10:16 AM EST
        huskergal

        Only because the people of Arizona have made it so. They believed the imaginary hobgoblin fed by Clinton and the republicans and ran with it. It is the people show of fear that has created the situation. It made you pass a law that right now is being looked over the states illegal immigration law. See link below.

        http://www.deseretnews.com/article/700077974/Hearing-starts-over-Arizona-illegal-immigration-law.html?s_cid=rss-1194

        Not Obama's fault, but the fault of the people and the governor herself.

          #7.10 - Wed Nov 10, 2010 10:36 AM EST
          Bill Reese

          Oh MY that darn ole Arizona Governor dragging all those illegals into her state and giving them weapon so they can kill all those Americans. She is really terrible, next thing you know she will want to make Arizona part of Mexico.

          You have to be kidding me huskergal, no one invited the illegals into Arizona, and the Gov. has done more to try and enforce a law that is very similar to the US law than Obama has. Oops, in fact Obama has done nothing to protect our country from illegals. Do you suppose he is illegal himself? so far he has not done anything to try and prove he is an American citizen. Only to try and keep his life a secret from the voters of the US.

          • 4 votes
          #7.11 - Wed Nov 10, 2010 2:18 PM EST
          huskergal

          If you were paying attention, I told that the problem was created by Cliinton and the Republicans in the mid 1990's. American jobs were being lost due to corporations either downsizing or closing plants, for cheaper labor elsewhere, to improve their bottom line. At the same time there was a great influx of both legal and illegal immigrants. Our leaders. playing on our economic fears, decided to cast blame on the immigrants for the lose of American jobs, for receiving welfare. and raising taxes.

          Are you with me so far?

          While doing this, both parties got together and passed legislation that Clinton signed that removed welfare for both legal and illegal immigrants. In 1996. the Anti-terrorism and Effective Death Penalty Act was passed. This act thatwas passed in response to the Oklahoma City bombing, allowed deportation of any immigrant ever convicted of a crime, no matter how serious or how long ago it was. Thousand of lawful legal residents who married Americans and had children have been deported under this law.

          Still with me?

          If you wonder why Bush never secured the border it is because he knew it was not a problem. He knew this immigration problem was just an imaginary hobgoblin sent to alarm the people by menacing it with falsehoods.

          Didn't your parents teach you that fear smells and the bully smell it and come to take advantage of the situation? Now picture an entire population scared and an illegal law passed and you have Arizona. It is a mess and a shame and I truly do hope that it gets straightened out and quiets down soon.

            #7.12 - Wed Nov 10, 2010 8:34 PM EST
            Bill Reese

            It was president Bush that started the wall to try and keep out the illegals. You keep mentioning fear throughout your diatribe, but it is not fear it is common sense, we are losing jobs, money from the US Government in medical care, food stamps and on and on. There is a federal law that would stop most illegal immigration, but Obama does not want to enforce it, in fact he has done just the opposite by suing the state of Arizona.

            How do I know that illegals take jobs from Americans? I ran a company in the Forest Industries for 25 years and our main competetor were companies that hired illegals and they would offer their services to timber companies for .75 cents to a 1.00 per hour less than we charged. They did not pay matching S.S. or unemployment insurance, or workmans Comp. or any other state fees as they hired under the table illegals that were not even on the books for our government. Sick and anyone that thinks it is fine to hire illegals is sick also.

            • 2 votes
            #7.13 - Thu Nov 11, 2010 12:52 AM EST
            Roryanne

            huskergal:

            Here's a page I found that explains what the problems are in Arizona. You should read it:

            Arizona

            • 2 votes
            #7.14 - Thu Nov 11, 2010 9:48 AM EST
            huskergal

            Arizona isn't the only state that has a large immigration population. It is the only state that has been crying about it and passed an illegal law on it. Sure it has problems, there are problems everywhere, but people deal with them quietly.

            It was president Bush that started the wall to try and keep out the illegals

            Yeah, come on; how far did he get with the wall? He did it just as a pacifier. He wasn't very concerned about it.

            • 1 vote
            #7.15 - Thu Nov 11, 2010 9:58 AM EST
            Bill Reese

            Huskergal, Well, President Bush did get a fence built on 370 miles, and then the child Obama came along and said, I do not care about the US Citizen, just let my voting constituency in and give them all the help America can afford. We will cut Social Security, but pay for health care and food stamps for the illegals. We need to get a president elected in 2012 that has the US Citizen in his heart and mind.

            There is over 18 states looking at laws like or very simular to Arizona's. they are watching to see how Obama law suite plays out. In fact one of the states maybe Nebraska that has written and passed an illegal immigration law.

            We all owe Arizona and Gov. Brewer a huge vote of thank you for leading the way, when our National Government is too weak to protect us then we now know we can protect ourselves.

            God Bless Arizona, and the all the States of the Union, pray for a change of leadership.

            • 4 votes
            #7.16 - Thu Nov 11, 2010 6:33 PM EST
            chouchou

            Bill Reese, 7.16,

            We need to get a president elected in 2012 that has the US Citizen in his heart and mind.

            Great comments and I agree with them. Specifcally, on the Immigration issue; Obama is taking the time and money out of our pockets to sue Arizona. Obama thinks he is "historic" in every way (illusions, are by their nature sweet) , but this action from this current administration, is unprecedented and unproductive. And it is hurting America!

            • 3 votes
            #7.17 - Thu Nov 11, 2010 10:23 PM EST
            huskergal

            Bill and ChouChou,

            See post 7.12, maybe you'll learn something.

            Also in 1997 Clinton added thousands of border guards to keep illegals out.

            It is the time worn out story all over again. People believe what they are told and never bother to find out the truth for themselves. everything I say is documented history.

            Here are some interesting links.

            http://www.resistnet.com/forum/topics/president-bush-signed-the-1

            http://immigration.procon.org/view.answers.php?questionID=000794

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antiterrorism_and_Effective_Death_Penalty_Act_of_1996

              #7.18 - Fri Nov 12, 2010 5:00 PM EST
              Bill Reese

              Huskergal, you are living in the past, with Presidents Clinton and Bush. Yes, President Bush was pushed into signing the border law, but he signed it and built 370 some miles of it. Obama has not even gone to see the wall or the problem in Arizona, he is too busy flying around the world playing the big shot in Indonesia, Kenya, Germany, Belgium, France and showing his wife how great he is, yet does not care one hoot about Americans and their need for jobs.

              Since Arizona has passed their illegal alien law, the numbers of illegals in their state has dropped drasticly and Obama is still suing Arizona, is he stupid or what? If Obama, Pelosi and Reid had not spent most of two years ramming a Obamacare bill down the throats of American, and worked on the illegal issue, economy and jobs instead, just maybe we would not be facing bankruptcy. Who knows maybe many Democrats would have had a chance to be elected for another term, instead of the landslide that hit them.

              • 4 votes
              #7.19 - Fri Nov 12, 2010 10:42 PM EST
              huskergal

              Bill,

              First of all, the President is serving us all to the best of his abilities and is trying to secure this nation. Illegal immigration is not the problem you believed to be as witnesses by the fact that the fear was swept under the rug by the illegal law passed by the governor. Arizona is no longer afraid.

                #7.20 - Sat Nov 13, 2010 10:25 AM EST
                Bill Reese

                Huskergal, I do not understand your last post, and you keep using the word fear and afraid in your post when it is Legal or illegal that we are concerned about. It is illegal aliens, not immigrants. I ran a small 150 person crew for over 25 years in the NW and we fought the Illegals for most of those years, in fact the INS had us help them for thee of those years in locating and then the INS sent them home only to have them return in 10-15 days. They removed work for about 30-45 American men, and women that needed it for their future education. We do not need the Illegal alien taking away jobs that we then need to support our unemployed with money we must borrow just so we can say we are nice people. SICK!

                • 2 votes
                #7.21 - Sat Nov 13, 2010 11:28 PM EST
                huskergal

                Bill.

                I do not understand. You ran a small 150 person crew. Did you do the hiring? If so, why did you hire illegals if there were Americans also applying for the jobs? If not why didn't you and you men protest to the owner or do something to stop this practice?

                  #7.22 - Sun Nov 14, 2010 9:36 AM EST
                  chouchou

                  Bill Reese 7.21,

                  Again, Great comments and not specifically for the above referenced post 7.21, but all of them. I agree with your position in this [the subject at hand] regard. Clearly, there is major difference between illegal aliens as opposed to immigrants.

                  • 1 vote
                  #7.23 - Mon Nov 15, 2010 4:53 AM EST
                  Roryanne

                  You're right chouchou, and Legal immigrants feel the same way about illegal immigrants as Arizona and most of the country does. The keyword those who miss the point, is illegal.

                  • 1 vote
                  #7.24 - Mon Nov 15, 2010 7:29 AM EST
                  huskergal

                  However, legal and illegal get treated the same by the government. If they ever committed a crime not matter how serious or how long ago they are deported. Did you know that? Illegals cannot receive benefits. I know though, it is hard to tell the difference between forges papers and real papers as withnessed by the Fort Dix debacle a few years ago.

                  I still have the same questions for you Bill. Are you going to aswer them?

                    #7.25 - Mon Nov 15, 2010 10:17 AM EST
                    Roryanne

                    legal and illegal get treated the same by the government

                    Yes, the Obama administration does not treat illegal immigrants the sa,e as people who have broken the law, even though sneaking into the country illegal, is breaking the law, but he has treated them as his friends, and anyone who opposes him, as his enemies.

                    Obama treats the citizens of Arizona, the Governor, and the law enforcement offiials as his enemy as well.

                    • 3 votes
                    #7.26 - Mon Nov 15, 2010 10:37 AM EST
                    chouchou

                    Roryanne 7.26,

                    Obama treats the citizens of Arizona, the Governor, and the law enforcement offiials as his enemy as well.

                    Excellent counter-point. Obama has no clue who are the real enemies amid a dangerous world.

                    • 4 votes
                    #7.27 - Mon Nov 15, 2010 11:31 PM EST
                    Roryanne

                    You're right chouchou and we'll chalk that up to yet another thing he's clueless about.

                    • 3 votes
                    #7.28 - Mon Nov 15, 2010 11:44 PM EST
                    Bill Reese

                    Husker gal, I am sorry I was not ignoring your question, as my ISP or something in outer cyber space destroyed my note to you. I wish I had copied it first so here goes again. I owned the forestry service company, and we hired mostly young people fresh out of high school or from entire (almost) college ball teams to work weekends when our main crews were shut down. We not only protested the illegals, the INS before Homeland security, asked me to drive them to the job sites where the illegal were working. On one of our excursions, I had a radio 2-way, from one of the major forest industries in the NW and the illegals were working for that company that particular day, and on the air we heard a company COR call the field COR and tell them that the INS was on its way and to hid the illegals.

                    To answer your question, YES I fought them at every turn, and I pulled for the legal competitors of ours as they were also training young men to learn good working habits.

                    Now the circuit court of the Western states in San Francisco has ruled that illegal are entitled to the Califronia free schooling and other benefits from the federal government. Where were those judges during the November landslide, as It sure sent the message that illegals need to be sent home and enter through proper channels.

                    You seen to think it is okay that the illegal alien is treated the same as the legal immigrant and deported if they commit a crime, well the born American sits it out in prision, they do not get to be sent home for comitting a crime.

                    I am sorry, but you are on the wrong side of the fence on this issue, and it would build better relation with Mexico if we locked down the border, helped Arizona with their challenge and cleaned up America, one problem at a time. We will welcome you aboard when you are ready.

                    • 2 votes
                    #7.29 - Tue Nov 16, 2010 12:03 AM EST
                    chouchou

                    Bill Reese #7.29,

                    Now the circuit court of the Western states in San Francisco has ruled that illegal are entitled to the California free schooling and other benefits from the federal government.

                    Yes, I know, and once again, I agree with your position and your comments--excellent ones. This ruling is ridiculous and terribly unfair for all of us who are making an honest day of work and pay taxes on time. California is a cautionary tale of what would happen to our country if we allow liberal Democrats take over.

                    • 2 votes
                    #7.30 - Tue Nov 16, 2010 5:05 AM EST
                    chouchou

                    Roryanne, 7.8,

                    Indeed....dangerously clueless.

                    • 2 votes
                    #7.31 - Tue Nov 16, 2010 5:06 AM EST
                    TiG.

                    What may seem to be ignorance is sometimes blind support (aka 'usefulness'). Ignorance can be remedied. It is very difficult to influence someone who will defend an individual or group regardless of the circumstances.

                    • 3 votes
                    #7.32 - Tue Nov 16, 2010 9:32 AM EST
                    Roryanne

                    Yes, and Obama's association with radical extremists will be ever hard to sever.

                    • 2 votes
                    #7.33 - Tue Nov 16, 2010 10:33 AM EST
                    huskergal

                    Excellent counter-point. Obama has no clue who are the real enemies amid a dangerous world.

                    Actually, it is most of us that are clueless. Ever hear of "Keep your friends close but your enemies closer?" Well Obama is doing just that. He is going to our enemies with olive branch in hand to mend fences in order to keep this nation secure.

                    Hobgoblins are in Arizona; most of them are imaginary. Why do you keep on believing the lies that are being fed to you? Putting fear into people is the oldest political trick in the book, that and religion

                      #7.34 - Wed Nov 17, 2010 2:46 PM EST
                      Roryanne

                      Does that mean that those who have been kidnapped in Arizona by illegal immigrant drug cartel members, are only imagining that as well.

                      I don't think that Congress applauding the Mexican President for bashing a state in the United States, and Obama mocking those citizens killed by illegal immigrants by saying Adios Amigos, is exactly doing what he's supposed to be doing.

                      Even though he flubbed the line, as POTUS he is supposed to protect, defend, and uphold the Constitution. He is also supposed to protect the citizens of US, of which he is president until Nov. 2012.

                      Refusing to enforce the federal law to secure the borders plus filing a lawsuit against those who are trying to do just that, is not keeping our borders secure.

                      • 3 votes
                      #7.35 - Wed Nov 17, 2010 2:52 PM EST
                      Bill Reese

                      Good reply Roryanne, Obama needs to retire before congress finally wakes up and has to impeach him.

                      He is certainly out as a potential Presidential candidate in 2012. I was going to say we need to find someone with more leadership experience, but that statement would open the door to 90 percent of the American public. :-)

                      • 2 votes
                      #7.36 - Wed Nov 17, 2010 4:58 PM EST
                      Roryanne

                      Yeah, Bill, you're right. It started out as an historic presidency, but unfortunately he blew it. His place in history won't be what it should be.

                      • 1 vote
                      #7.37 - Wed Nov 17, 2010 5:52 PM EST
                      huskergal

                      I really have a good laugh with the two of you. Neither of you can see the forest for the tree in front of you. Thanks for the vaudeville comedy. :)

                        #7.38 - Wed Nov 17, 2010 10:51 PM EST
                        Roryanne

                        For someone who made this statement about Arizona citizens being kidnapped, murdered, and drove out of their neighborhoods, because of illegal immigrants:

                        Not Obama's fault, but the fault of the people and the governor herself.

                        it's pretty amazing the you would laugh at anyone.

                        • 3 votes
                        #7.39 - Wed Nov 17, 2010 11:03 PM EST
                        chouchou

                        Bill Reese, 7.36,

                        Good reply Roryanne,

                        Agree 100%.

                        Roryanne 7.35,

                        Refusing to enforce the federal law to secure the borders plus filing a lawsuit against those who are trying to do just that, is not keeping our borders secure.

                        Your position in this subject as in all others, are always well articulated. With specific reference to your 7.39 comment, again I agree completely. If others who are still confused or choose to be confused about kidnaps down at the border and blame the wrong persons, in my opinion, they have chosen to misinterpret the definition of illegal aliens vs legal immigrants, and the federal law in this regard....God help them.

                        • 2 votes
                        #7.40 - Wed Nov 17, 2010 11:48 PM EST
                        Roryanne

                        Thanks, chouchou, and it all goes back to not wanting to disagree with anything Obama does.

                        I didn't run around for 8 years praising everything Bush did, and agreed on some things that people said they didn't like about him.

                        But I believe now more than ever, that the way Bush handled 9/11 is something we'd never see from the current POTUS. Whatever people wanted to rag on Bush for, he at least stepped up to the plate when it came down to protecting the country he swore to defend, unlike Obama, who does the opposite at every turn.

                        • 2 votes
                        #7.41 - Thu Nov 18, 2010 7:14 AM EST
                        chouchou

                        Roryanne, 7.41,

                        You are welcome, and anytime my friend.

                        Whatever people wanted to rag on Bush for, he at least stepped up to the plate when it came down to protecting the country he swore to defend, unlike Obama, who does the opposite at every turn.

                        Agreed completely. Excellent comment, as usual. Bush kept our country safe and there was not even one terrorist attack since 9/11 on US soil. Unlike "the smartest guy in the room", we already had several, aiming to attack on US soil. Let's not state the obvious ones [terrorists' attacks], as I had, and others on the vine, had written extensively on this subject.

                        Obama must have forgotten, or is he that clueless that he swore, to "preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States."?

                        • 2 votes
                        #7.42 - Thu Nov 18, 2010 8:01 AM EST
                        Roryanne

                        Especially since the terrorist was just found guilty on only one charge, and will probably walk out of prison in less than twenty years. That's Obama's idea of keeping America safe.

                        • 2 votes
                        #7.43 - Thu Nov 18, 2010 8:03 AM EST
                        Bill Reese

                        Chouchou: I am not fully convinced that Obama believes in our US Constitution, or even wants to try. I think one day we just may find out why he is so dead set against producing his birth certificate. Hopefully it is nothing too serious, but there is a challenge there to be considered. His trying to sue the state of Arizona is totally asinine where he should be continuing the fence (create jobs for Arizonans) and helping to enforce the US Laws against illegal aliens. I do not mean just in Arizona, but all states, including the other state called California. :-) That state has so many non working people that they vote in a lot of laws for illegals and they are enforced making it more difficult to send them home.

                        • 2 votes
                        #7.44 - Thu Nov 18, 2010 1:12 PM EST
                        chouchou

                        Bill Reese #6.44

                        Agreed. Obama's actions, notably his three main goals are to control energy, public education, and national healthcare by the federal government. As POTUS, he has yet to show me that he believes in our Constiution, or our American Exceptionlism. Obama doesn't really see himself as President of the United States (POTUS), but more as a ruler over the world. He sees himself above it all, trying to orchestrate and coordinate various countries and their agendas. He sees moral equivalency in all cultures. His apology tour in Germany and England was a prime example of how he sees America, as an imperialist nation that has been arrogant, rather than a great noble nation that has at times made errors. This is the first President ever who has chastised our allies and appeased our enemies.

                        Lastly, Obama has a way of making you think he's on your side, agreeing with your position, while doing the opposite. Pay no attention to what he says; rather, watch what he does.

                        • 3 votes
                        #7.45 - Fri Nov 19, 2010 1:34 AM EST
                        Bill Reese

                        Chouchou, I see we are on the same page about Obama, the first non-President of the United States.

                        I can only imagine the mess should Obama be found guilty of impersonating a Federal Official. Does all the bills that he signed become unsigned? What will become of our Government should he be found a foreigner and his actions are to help the countries that hate America, like Iran, or Venezuela, North Korea and so forth. Can and will America survive should that come to pass?

                        I think something is up as Obama is taking every advantage of traveling the world and spending the tax payers money on himself.

                        • 3 votes
                        #7.46 - Fri Nov 19, 2010 6:36 PM EST
                        chouchou

                        Bill Reese #6.46,

                        I oppose to Obama's agenda and his ideology, which without care of what We, the People, he would like to impose all of them on us--truly transformative in a very bad way. This is not America! America does not need the "change" Obama wanted to impose on us.

                        I am darn proud to say I DID NOT VOTE FOR HIM. The signs of his radical left were apparent when he was on campaign trail; but timing is everything along with the liberal newspaper/Media (NY Times, LA Times,NPR, Washington Post, ABC, CNN, and the list goes on) who were so mesmerized by his "charm", reported in the most biased way.

                        We have got to band together to take one step at a time----to oppose and dismantle his agenda by voicing our opinions, and WE, THE PEOPLE, WILL ALL SPEAK AGAIN LOUDLY AND CLEARLY THAT WE DO NOT WANT OBAMA IN 2012.

                        • 3 votes
                        #7.47 - Sat Nov 20, 2010 1:08 AM EST
                        Bill Reese

                        Chouchou, Are you aware of the Cap and Tax (trade) bill as passed by the Democratic House earlier this year and in it is a requirement to get a license for you home? Your home must meet certain requirements before you will be allowed to sell it. This is free America? I hope the new House will reject this bill before the senate can approve one similar to it.

                        In the past two years our country has taken the largest step toward Socialism that perhaps in all of the past 200 years. I am pulling for the American Voter to never get suckered into an inexexperienced idiot again by the main stream news media.

                        In fact there is three States today that are putting up bills to require all presidential nominees to be vetted by the state before being put on the ballot

                        • 2 votes
                        #7.48 - Sun Nov 21, 2010 3:16 PM EST
                        chouchou

                        Bill Reese 6.48,

                        I am not aware of the finer details in the cap and trade bill. Great info, and thanks! I hope it is not another replay a la Obamacare, "We have to pass the bill so that you can find out what is in it.”

                        In the past two years our country has taken the largest step toward Socialism that perhaps in all of the past 200 years. I am pulling for the American Voter to never get suckered into an inexexperienced idiot again by the main stream news media.

                        Spot on. Great comments. I agree completely.

                        The success of social policy is to be measured not by equality of outcomes for groups, but by open, abundant opportunity for individuals. It is to be measured by the freedom of individuals, acting upon their personal abilities, aspirations, and values, to seek the kind of life that best suits them--- American Exceptionalism, the cornerstones of our unique dynamics of American life as Alexis de Tocqueville observed in 1830.

                        America’s elites must once again fall in love with what makes the United States different instead of chasing after Europe's socialist model, which by the way, is not working quite what they (socialist European) planned.

                        • 1 vote
                        #7.49 - Sun Nov 21, 2010 11:38 PM EST
                        Reply
                        Jeff in Houston

                        Okay, I'm ready for the stoning from my fellow progressives, so start gathering up the rocks.

                        Please Nancy, please just go away. I appreciate what you did, but right now, we do nto need someone that gets to people like fingernails on a blackboard. Whatever you do, please do it quietly.

                        There. I finally said it.

                        • 15 votes
                        Reply#8 - Fri Nov 5, 2010 5:28 PM EDT
                        Kori

                        There. I finally said it.

                        ... and you were rewarded with a big green Star. lol!

                        • 2 votes
                        #8.1 - Fri Nov 5, 2010 6:38 PM EDT
                        Jeff in Houston

                        I hated writing that. Seriously. I did. But some people, no matter how noble, just make you grind your teeth. I alwasy felt better READING her words than HEARING them.

                        • 3 votes
                        #8.2 - Fri Nov 5, 2010 9:22 PM EDT
                        chouchou

                        Jeff in Houston 7,

                        Please Nancy, please just go away

                        Agree. Great comment. But, I am afraid she [Nancy] will not go gently, and quietly into that good night.

                        • 1 vote
                        #8.3 - Sun Nov 21, 2010 11:44 PM EST
                        Reply
                        Little Sure Shot

                        Does she have to give up the jets and use her broomstick again?

                        • 11 votes
                        Reply#9 - Fri Nov 5, 2010 5:29 PM EDT
                        Star3

                        I thought it was a broomstick---just a fancier version

                        • 3 votes
                        #9.1 - Fri Nov 5, 2010 11:46 PM EDT
                        Reply
                        socialjustice

                        We've already rewarded failure enough by electing these Republican obstructionists.

                        I do not think Nancy Pelosi should continue as minority leader. It would be nice if we were enlightened enough to have Dennis Kucinich as leader, but if we were that enlightened we wouldn't have just elected these disgusting Republicans.

                        I'm still disappointed that Pelosi took impeachment of Bush off the table. Now we're going to see those Republican criminals again as America forgets what they did to us last decade and don't understand what a filibuster is and how it has hindered our recovery.

                        • 3 votes
                        Reply#10 - Fri Nov 5, 2010 5:30 PM EDT
                        Bello99

                        If you are lazy, feel that you are entitled to a happy easy life courtesy of someone else, upset because your paycheck can't pay for all the material things you really deserve, spend your free time on useless chat rooms, then PELOSI is for you. As the dollar is purposely devalued and America struggles under the burden of impossible to pay debt and you wonder why life is SOOOO unfair, PELOSI is for you.

                        Wake up America - there's tough days ahead that will demand tough choices if we aim to make it another 235 years. We've got to take a long view, and right now, it would appear that because of the last 25 years of spending & criminal policies courtesy of Alan Greenspan, Congress, Republicans AND Democrats, and (can't believe I'm saying it) individual Americans and our choices... life's gonna be tough.

                        Now, let's get to fixing things, and it's gonna hurt. Simply, if it's not in the bank account, don't write the check.

                        • 3 votes
                        Reply#11 - Fri Nov 5, 2010 5:44 PM EDT
                        McSpockyExpand Comment Comment collapsed by the community

                        Good for Pelosi. I think she should stay. The only reason Americans became upset with Congress (other than all the right-wing lies during the campaign season) was because of all the obstructionism by Republicans in the Senate. Too many Americans don't even understand that filibusters were used at a record pace by the Republicans to prevent legislation from being passed in the Senate. Then the right wing media blamed it all on the Democratsin both the Senate and the House, and many voters ate up the lies just like candy. The anger caused by Senate obstructionism, was the basis for unjustified anger at the House, and the election results giving the Teapublicans a House majority.

                        • 8 votes
                        Reply#12 - Fri Nov 5, 2010 5:46 PM EDT
                        Bello99

                        McSpocky - you clearly don't get it.

                        They ALL should go until we get a crew in there that will slow gov't spending to a point where we can afford ourselves. With our debt at $122,000 per taxpayer (and then take half of those who don't even pay taxes due to the rebates/credits you get almost $250k), we've nowhere to go but a big fireball unless we stop the trains.

                        The gov't HAS to create inflation... their problem will be how to stop it... which they won't be able to. Think interest rates at 30%. Some economy then, huh?

                        You're focused on the small things... & missing the train that's falling from the sky...

                        • 6 votes
                        #12.1 - Fri Nov 5, 2010 5:50 PM EDT
                        huskergal

                        Bello99, it is you that do not get it. The economy is improving. There is no train falling from the sky, but there are more trains running on the rails. I work at a major railyard and I have seen the increase of business.

                        Sorry to say, I do not know where you are focused, but it is not on what is really happening. Government spending was out of control under Reagan, then Bush. Clinton at least balanced the budget and turned the reigns over to Bush Jr, with a surplus, Bush not only spent the surplus, he added to the deficit hugely. It appears that Obama has too, but in actuality, he didn't as he added payback clauses to all loans and they are being paid back.

                        • 3 votes
                        #12.2 - Fri Nov 5, 2010 5:59 PM EDT
                        Bello99

                        huskergal - it is true things appear to be better. But why? Is it because businesses are hiring? Paying more? or is it because Helicopter Ben just announced he would loan himself another $600 billon? If you are a foreign investor, or any kind of investor, how is this attractive for the dollar? Any guess why the dollar is worth, in real terms only 10% of what it was in 1970? Hint... think low interest rates, more treasury sales to ourselves... what nation has ever survived this recipe? Hint... NONE. Think Rome, Greece, Germany.

                        We really need some education. For those worried about becoming a socialist vice democratic based nation - guess what? Our gov'talready spends 40% of our GDP on entitlements. Guess what - the boomer will be retiring soon... but that's OK. You're right. Our gov't can just print us more money every 6 months... it's a fine plan... Europe is right along with us...

                        • 5 votes
                        #12.3 - Fri Nov 5, 2010 6:07 PM EDT
                        photoguy69

                        Bello, things are getting better not because of Ben but because companies are tired of their money sitting on the sidelenes doing nothing. They are flush with cash, credit is cheap, and consumers are starting to come back. Rail shipment are up and have been getting better well before the Fed made this latest move.

                        40% of GDP? Where the heck did you get that from?

                        Germany is gone? My god, I didn't know.

                        • 3 votes
                        #12.4 - Fri Nov 5, 2010 6:17 PM EDT
                        huskergal

                        Bello, I am sorry but you can not see the forest for the tree. Reagan and Bush started this thing about printing money to bail out the Savings and Loans. Clinton did his own thing, but did balance the books and leave a surplus and then we Had Bush Jr.

                        Our gov'talready spends 40% of our GDP on entitlements

                        But please tell us when this started. From my studies I can tell you this spending on entitlement has been going on since the birth of this nation. So it nothing new. Since this nation was founded the weathy grew weathier and the poor got poorer and the middle class got just enough to keep them satisfied so that they would vote with the elite.

                        There are more businesses hiring and hopefully more to come. We lost jobs due to companies downsizing or closing plants to go elsewhere for cheaper labor and this happened back in Reagan, Bush and Clinton days as well as today.

                        Our military budget is 49% of the Federal budget and growing. It has been growing since WWII. It should have been cut when the Soviet Union collapsed, but government makes money with war so we have been in the war business for years.

                        Low interest rates? Um, the name that comes to mind is John Maynard Keynes. Lower the interest rates to stimulate the economy. I remember the early 80's when interest rates hit as high as 21%. We had a stagnant economy then. People were buying CD's left and right because of the high interest rate. In the mid 80's interest rates fell and the economy started to boom again. Unfortunately we had Alan Greenspan who call for and did deregulated,. We are now feeling his blunder.

                        • 3 votes
                        #12.5 - Fri Nov 5, 2010 6:32 PM EDT
                        Mollybrown-2448196

                        Clinton balanced the books and had a surplus because he had a Republican Congress...hellooooo Huskergal.

                        • 5 votes
                        #12.6 - Fri Nov 5, 2010 6:44 PM EDT
                        Bello99

                        OK - we have flashes of understanding among your statements, but a very basic misunderstanding centered on our currency and spending issues. Spending on entitlements since the birth of the nation? At our current rate under deficit spending? Where people are taxed differently? Where Harrisburg, PA came within a rat's hair of declaring bankruptcy until PA bailed them out? Where the gov't routinely bailed out failed companies heavy on pensions and unions? All because they make the best product on the market? Since the birth of our nation?

                        You basically followed your own trail of gov't spending discussing the military spending - all coming from the same pot and I agree. That's got to come down, but it's only part. Your comments about interest rates being 21% willbe our future again, because who in his right mind would loan anyone money for 30 years at 4% (Only someone who can buy the same debt at 1.5% from the gov't and keep thedifference.) Investors will eventually demand higher interest on the dollar, or our treasury sales will dry up.

                        I hope you are right about the economy, but we've got a drunken sailor here who is trying to get sober through more drinking. The fed should let interest rates float to the market, let houses sell for what the market says, let bad companies go under so new growth can emerge.

                        Did we all forget that's what got us here? The ability to invent and take chances? Reward the companies that lay their money on the line. The strength of our nation is small business, not GE (who will be bankrupt as well in 2 years thanks to its financial hokus pokus), gov't run GM, Wall Street who runs unpunished and unaccountable for its risk taking.

                        Just saying there is no nice way out of the hole that we've dug.

                        OK - very simply - how do we pay the debt we've taken on? New taxes? Less coddling in Social Security (which was NEVER supposed to be your only source of income for 30 years of life) and the medical system? What politician in his right mind wants to touch any of that?

                        Simply answer that one and come out off the couch... "why can't I just watch Oprah?"

                        Germany was referring to post-WWI photoguy. I've lived in Germany and Italy for a toltal of 6.5 years. Google "trash in Naples" and you'll see what begins to happen when the gov't can't pay its bills. I've opened a whole new can that Icould go on and on, but it comes to deciding on what you will spend your money on. Unfortunately for the EU, they can't print money like the U.S. can. They have rules they must adhere to as a group, and they're hurting.

                        I hope some more polyanna gibberish will pull us out of this, but you haven't shown me the way. Only taken shots at some numbers and ideas I've thrown out. Hopefully the new crowd comes in with a plan, but I suspect not. Especially with "Hope" in the WH. I was always told "hope" is not a plan...

                        oh... and John Maynard Keynes will be shown in 50 years to be a complete idiot... as will those who believe his tragically wrong line of thinking...

                        • 2 votes
                        #12.7 - Fri Nov 5, 2010 8:19 PM EDT
                        Soval-1219303

                        Why was this collapsed?

                          #12.8 - Fri Nov 5, 2010 9:18 PM EDT
                          Bello99

                          apparently someone doesn't like adult discussions re: difficult topics on this site... sorry for hurting feelings... let me fluff your pillow...

                          • 3 votes
                          #12.9 - Fri Nov 5, 2010 10:28 PM EDT
                          huskergal

                          Bello99.

                          Under Bush jr, Government income was cut because of tax cuts and spending was increased.

                          I understand basic economic principles. You can't spend more than you take in and also cut your income. Nobody taught this to George W. Bush.

                          Clinton was in office for 8 years. he only had a republican congress for his last two years. Want to try again to tell me a republican congress balanced the budget?

                          As for John Maybard Keynes, nobody understood him and that includes Roosevelt and his 12 economic advisors

                          • 2 votes
                          #12.10 - Sat Nov 6, 2010 5:23 AM EDT
                          huskergal

                          Coddling in social security? You must have your head buries in the sand. People pay into social security. It is not a 'gift" from the government. It is ones own money that is doled out each month and it depends on what you earned.

                          You really think the government could survive without taxes. Taxes are income. Without money there will be no government.

                          As I do not watch TV, Who's Oprah and what does she have to do with this discussion?

                          The new crowd that came definitrly has a plan and it doesn't include you. wake up to that fact. They do not care about the people at all only about lining their own pockets and those of their cronies.

                          • 2 votes
                          #12.11 - Sat Nov 6, 2010 5:38 AM EDT
                          Bello99

                          huskergal - I am not a republican or democrat though I have voted against the democrats. Each party is equally corrupt and has made mistakes they blame on each other. I am saying that somehow it has to stop and sound financial decisions need to be made.

                          You also make a leap regarding my comment on taxes. I agree we need taxes to do all the things you suggest (I'm assuming roads, schools, police, safety functions). I would say the gov't is way to big because the current expenditures (local, state & gov't) eat up all the taxes - and we haven't addressed this small debt problem.

                          Other countries are now seeing what we refuse to see and making deals in other currencies - the dollar is doomed in our current direction. I truly believe Ben & Tim & Barrack already know this and intend for the dollar to collapse. They'll "pay" our debts that will be (in real terms) much smaller in value. (Think Zimbabwe)

                          My point I guess is that the administration knows what they're doing - I just think it's completely wrong for the long term health ./ existence of the country. Everyone's caught up in a political party discussion which is a waste of time. They're all lawyers - so they write laws. We don't need more laws!! Just go to DC keep the wheels & keep the wheels on the cart.

                          They all have a plan... but not me. Well, actually I'm buying a lot of gold / silver. Most agriculture items (wheat, sugar, cocoa, etc) have increased by 40% (at least) in the last 6 months. We'll feel this in the spring... which follows the inflation discussion I've tried to walk. I'll run my shop and be a good citizen - same as you. We will debate and voice opinions... but if we continue down this path, I'll be prepared with a life raft. Most will not. Others will try to poke holes in my raft in a year, saying it's not fair I'm prepared & they're not. That follows the same weak-kneed think America has become used to.

                          What's your plan? What is it you want your congressman to do come this January? I want mine to cut spending across the board. This will mean layoffs & people losing their TV. This will mean families will have to support each other. Charity will be for real and not some form I check and feel better, never seeing who I'm really helping. If not, America will have peaked, our voice will mean less and less because we pay our debt with a worthless dollar, so why would anyone listen?

                          • 2 votes
                          #12.12 - Sat Nov 6, 2010 8:49 AM EDT
                          huskergal

                          Bello, You and I are a lot alike. I also am an independant except I lean to the left a bit. I voted Democrat because I believe in what Obama is doing or trying to do. Wanting smaller government is okay, but we do need regulation in business. This disaster we are in proves it. The economy can run itself by supply and demand, but the business that run with in the economy need rules and regulations. This is what Obama's wall street reform is.

                          Healthcare insurance is very much needed in this country. The insurance industry has too much interference in our lives. So, even though the mandate is unconstitutional, it is necessary at thisjuncture in time. Without the mandate, the insurance companies are not going to lower costs and families will still be without insurance; they'll be emergency room patients being stabilized instead of cured.

                          Taxes? well they should stay were they are for those making under $250,000 a year and raise for those whose earnings are above that figure. They should not be entitled to spacial privileges and lower taxes are special privileges. This will also bring more revenue into our economy.

                          The military budget should be cut. To much of our hard earned money goes to that and not enough to educate our children and grandchildren.

                          Charity for me has always been real. I do it secretly, so I never get to see the results or know who I helped. I also do volunteer work and I do see what I accomplish there.

                          well I told you what I would like to see. Seeing it will be another ball of wax. Just look at some of the postings on this alone. We are not a peaceful species.

                          • 1 vote
                          #12.13 - Sat Nov 6, 2010 4:39 PM EDT
                          Bello99

                          yep - I reckon so. My view is though there are problems, I don't believe the government is the right organization to fix things. Way too buearocratic & wasteful. Never (or seldom) has a government body been formed and then abolished, so the beast only grows. This was never and should never be the function for a government. This is why the Soviet Union collapsed only 20 years ago...

                          Obama is an academic idealist which makes him a wonderful speaker, but his ideas are having some difficulty with reality. I will also say that my comment about the 2008 election has come true to a point... "Whoever wins, McCain or Obama, will look in the mirror in 2 years and ask himself why he wanted this job because things are a mess."

                          I believe life is about to be a lot simpler, though harder, which maybe isn't bad. I think many are about to get another round of cold water, and we'll be forced to conserve in all kinds of ways. We will have to be careful about targeting specific groups of people to fix everyone's problems though. There is an expectation that the 20% of Americans paying 80% of the taxes should pay more. What I think we'll find is that they will find ways to get around the system again. I'm for a simple, no exception flat tax for that reason.

                          Anyway, I guess this was about Pelosi, and I can't remember what my opinion was... I guess I would guess she has no friends or hobbies & this is the only thing she knows. She's old as the hills & might as well keep on if she can. I guess the other side would cheer if she gets the job, anticipating blasting her again in 2 years. Funny with all the 'change' this election brought, how the central positions remained with pretty much the same faces...

                          Good rant & thanks for coming back. My first chat room participation & likely my last. Short career... Ciao ~

                          • 2 votes
                          #12.14 - Sat Nov 6, 2010 11:17 PM EDT
                          Reply
                          Rise of the PHOENIX

                          This is great news, I pray she succeeds. Her continuing performance will get another 62 House seats, 8 more Senate seats and the Presidency for the GOP in 2012.

                          • 6 votes
                          Reply#13 - Fri Nov 5, 2010 5:56 PM EDT
                          paxildog

                          For a republican President. It sucks with only two parties right now.

                          • 2 votes
                          #13.1 - Fri Nov 5, 2010 5:59 PM EDT
                          Reply
                          gregory ward

                          to the democrats we are left its no one fault the election well it is what it is the people have spoken we live to fight another day we are strong and did nothing wrong our president did what he had to do to stop job lost and save jobs we must get behind him and push for change . so brush the dirt off and get busy our job is to make sure that this president has a second term no matter what.its called the white house but its the peoples house.we the people

                          • 2 votes
                          Reply#14 - Fri Nov 5, 2010 6:03 PM EDT
                          Smokie-788412

                          gregory ward===I think I'm getting sleepy now. After reading these same lines over and over again is getting the best of me. If Nancy does happen to stay, after her members tell her to go, I hope that she can get some new lines to read. These same old lines that have been around for over four years now. Regroup and come back with a new pharse please.

                          • 3 votes
                          #14.1 - Fri Nov 5, 2010 6:34 PM EDT
                          tyler

                          15 deleted, Tony89 fantasizing about a congresswoman's death. Don't. Banned.

                          • 1 vote
                          #14.2 - Mon Nov 8, 2010 6:13 PM EST
                          Reply
                          Tony89Deleted
                          AKBER KASSAM

                          Nancy Pelosi must know that she lost in election, she cannot take any position in Government. And besides that in this elections brought a sudden political careers of many Senators and representives What will happen to those people? They are also looking for a job. They are aware of the American law, they will not seek any position in the Government, because the majority of voters did not supported them. Lost is Lost, don't even think about any Government position. Stay in your self respect being a woman, and please move to your home town.

                          NYC.

                          • 4 votes
                          Reply#16 - Fri Nov 5, 2010 6:28 PM EDT
                          Kori

                          #16: Stay in your self respect being a woman, and please move to your home town.

                          Nancy likes being a jet-setter at tax payers expense way too much to ever go home. Her ego thrives on being the center of attention and being catered too. There's very few people that I strongly dislike and she is one of them.

                          • 3 votes
                          #16.1 - Fri Nov 5, 2010 6:49 PM EDT
                          Soval-1219303

                          Nancy Pelosi must know that she lost in election, she cannot take any position in Government.

                          Nancy Pelosi won her seat in congress last Tuesday, she is still in the government, and has every right to seek a position of leadership withing her own party. It will be House Democrats who will decide if she gets that position, not Republicans that hate her.

                          They are aware of the American law, they will not seek any position in the Government, because the majority of voters did not supported them. Lost is Lost, don't even think about any Government position.

                          First, what law prohibits them from running for office again or accepting positions within state or federal government.

                          Second, you can read their minds and know their intentions?

                          Stay in your self respect being a woman, and please move to your home town.

                          "Go home woman!"? I hope that is not as misogynistic as it sounded.

                          Kori:

                          Do you have anything of actual substance to say?

                          • 4 votes
                          #16.2 - Fri Nov 5, 2010 9:44 PM EDT
                          Reply
                          john shaft-1998678

                          THATS GOOD NEWS ,, just stay and keep gumming up the works girl ..

                          To bad you don't know when its time to GOOOOOOOOO........

                          Kind of like a pain in the ass relative ..

                          • 5 votes
                          Reply#17 - Fri Nov 5, 2010 6:38 PM EDT
                          LarryMN

                          Speaker Pelosi was effective in getting some key legislation passed. That's what she was supposed to do especially in light of a huge economic emergency. The only place where she's faced demonization has been on F_cks News which is just the propaganda arm of the Republican Party. The health legislation will reduce business costs and reduce bankruptcies. Is this a bad thing? If Pelosi wants to stay in  the leadership the House Democrats owe it to her. As the economy improves Obama will become a huge hero and all the old tea bags in the Tea Party will dry up. We already saw job growth in the last quarter. 

                          As for Tony89's sick post I think he meant to send it to a friend about a female relative from whom he expects to get an inheritance. 

                          • 3 votes
                          Reply#18 - Fri Nov 5, 2010 6:47 PM EDT
                          Smokie-788412

                          Larry the only way any of the legislation that got passed in Congress is because the Democrats had the votes, period. If it would have been a mixed house as it is most of the time not much of this crap would have gotten to a vote. Nancy was in the right place at the right time and the rest they bought off. The Democrats had the Senate, the House and the President that's as good as it gets to get something passed. If you think back even with all of these votes they still had to buy off Congress to get anything passed.

                          When you have the majority and you have to buy off Mary Landrieu, Nelson in Nebraska, satisfy Charles Schumer and Chris Dodd that's not called leadership that's called a bribe. I kept the list of bribes small. I didn't want to upset the voters on a Friday evening. We have the week-end to look forward to.

                          • 5 votes
                          #18.1 - Fri Nov 5, 2010 7:02 PM EDT
                          Mollybrown-2448196

                          Oh Larry, Larry all that stupid legislation is fixing to be repealed.....it didn't work. The Democrats owe her nothing...she has pretty much destroyed the Democratic Party with her nonsense and stupidity. And as for the economy improving.......I have no doubt now.....the Republicans control the House. Obama will only get credit if he listens to the HOUSE!

                          • 4 votes
                          #18.2 - Fri Nov 5, 2010 7:03 PM EDT
                          ArizonaBill

                          LarryMN, "We already saw job growth in the last quarter"

                          The small amount it grew was from money Obama gave to business, problem is the People don't have the money to spend right now, so after that money is dried up so will be those "false" jobs.

                          Obama would have been far better to put that money in the hands of every American tax payer and let them do things like pay off their house, as the Banks would have made their money (without having to cut the loans, which they took a big loss on) and the economywould have rebounded and stayed up. All the stimulus money did was give Bankers and other big business people fat bonus's and nice retirement plans ! The American tax payer got only the "Shaft" !

                          • 2 votes
                          #18.3 - Fri Nov 5, 2010 7:07 PM EDT
                          brock661

                          Yah,and MSNBC doesnt favor the liberals at all,you people who complain about Fox News ,think MSNBC is actually more credible,that a joke,I will admit Glen Beck is a idiot but Keith Olberman and Mr. Rachell Maddow are just as xeterme on the other end of the political spectrum,and they both speak half truths and rarely tell the whole story,Imean look at Ed Schultz he is just as liberal as glen Beck is conservative,and never reports any news ,he just attacks republicans on enything he can slant negatively!!!!!!!!!

                          • 1 vote
                          #18.4 - Fri Nov 5, 2010 9:06 PM EDT
                          Reply
                          Mollybrown-2448196

                          The American people drained the swamp for Pelosi......now Pelosi, The Swamp Thing, just needs to slither away.

                          • 5 votes
                          Reply#19 - Fri Nov 5, 2010 6:49 PM EDT
                          Kori

                          lol. Good one.

                          • 4 votes
                          #19.1 - Fri Nov 5, 2010 6:50 PM EDT
                          Reply
                          ArizonaBill

                          Just goes to show how disconnected this chick is from the American people !

                          Go ahead Nancy hurt your Party as much as you can on your way out the door, after all it's always just been about what Nancy wants.

                          • 4 votes
                          Reply#20 - Fri Nov 5, 2010 6:54 PM EDT
                          bossrjc

                          The Dems would be smart to distance themselves from this woman starting right now.   She is a liability not an asset.

                          • 5 votes
                          Reply#21 - Fri Nov 5, 2010 6:56 PM EDT
                          Mollybrown-2448196

                          Sooooo Right!!!!

                          • 4 votes
                          #21.1 - Fri Nov 5, 2010 7:04 PM EDT
                          Reply
                          ArizonaBill

                          This is as brain dead an idea as when Obama went around before the election endorsing candidates,,lol that was like the "Kiss of Death" to them.

                          • 5 votes
                          Reply#22 - Fri Nov 5, 2010 6:59 PM EDT
                          alur

                          She's a typical, non-comprimising, self-serving politician. There needs to be people who work together without the acid, partisian agenda that she has.

                          • 5 votes
                          Reply#23 - Fri Nov 5, 2010 7:00 PM EDT
                          Smokie-788412

                          Simply Amazing!!
                          Now the whole Democratic Party will be upset for the next two years. GOOD!!

                          • 4 votes
                          Reply#24 - Fri Nov 5, 2010 7:07 PM EDT
                          ArizonaBill

                          The Tea Party itself couldn't have planned this one any better ! lol mmmmm Wonder if Nancy has become a Tea Party Operative ?

                          • 3 votes
                          #24.1 - Fri Nov 5, 2010 7:09 PM EDT
                          Mollybrown-2448196

                          A mole?

                          • 3 votes
                          #24.2 - Fri Nov 5, 2010 7:13 PM EDT
                          Reply
                          Mollybrown-2448196

                          I know this is off subject, but I couldn't resist. "Keith Olbermann suspended indefinitely by MSNBC for making political contributions." Another out of touch nutjob! They must run in packs!

                          • 6 votes
                          Reply#25 - Fri Nov 5, 2010 7:11 PM EDT
                          ArizonaBill

                          Mollybrown,,,,Good Call !

                          • 1 vote
                          #25.1 - Fri Nov 5, 2010 7:15 PM EDT
                          Mollybrown-2448196

                          Thanks Bill

                          • 1 vote
                          #25.2 - Fri Nov 5, 2010 7:56 PM EDT
                          Roryanne

                          Great assessment, Mollybrown; love your name, BTW!

                          • 1 vote
                          #25.3 - Sat Nov 6, 2010 12:05 PM EDT
                          Reply
                          Mollybrown-2448196

                          Maybe Rachel Madcow is next!

                          • 3 votes
                          Reply#26 - Fri Nov 5, 2010 7:12 PM EDT
                          uyhgrtuDeleted
                          Reply
                          raytedex

                          She needs to join ..the view....with the rest of the SEAHAGS....

                          • 5 votes
                          Reply#27 - Fri Nov 5, 2010 7:13 PM EDT
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