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APNewsBreak: Veterans say rape cases mishandled

Tue Feb 15, 2011 6:55 AM EST
politics, us, military, abuse, sexual, sexual-abuse
Kimberly Hefling, AP Education Writer
< PreviousNext >
showing 1 of 6 photos
<p>Veteran Kori Cioca, 25, of Wilmington, Ohio, tells how she was raped, and her jaw broken, while serving in the U.S. Coast Guard, during an interview in her attorney's office in Washington Sunday, Feb. 13, 2011. Cioca is a plaintiff among about a dozen women and at least one man suing Pentagon officials, seeking change in the military's handling of rape, and sexual assault cases. (AP Photo/Cliff Owen)</p>

Veteran Kori Cioca, 25, of Wilmington, Ohio, tells how she was raped, and her jaw broken, while serving in the U.S. Coast Guard, during an interview in her attorney's office in Washington Sunday, Feb. 13, 2011. Cioca is a plaintiff among about a dozen women and at least one man suing Pentagon officials, seeking change in the military's handling of rape, and sexual assault cases. (AP Photo/Cliff Owen)

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WASHINGTON — A group of U.S. veterans who say they were raped and abused by their comrades want to force the Pentagon to change how it handles such cases.

More than a dozen female and two male current or former service members say servicemen get away with rape and other sexual abuse and victims are too often ordered to continue to serve alongside those they say attacked them.

In a federal class-action lawsuit filed Tuesday that names Defense Secretary Robert Gates and his predecessor, Donald Rumsfeld, they want an objective third party to handle such complaints because individual commanders have too much say in how allegations are handled.

The alleged attackers in the lawsuit include an Army criminal investigator and an Army National Guard commander. The abuse alleged ranges from obscene verbal abuse to gang rape.

In one incident, an Army Reservist says two male colleagues raped her in Iraq and videotaped the attack. She complained to authorities after the men circulated the video to colleagues. Despite being bruised from her shoulders to elbows from being held down, she says charges weren't filed because the commander determined she "did not act like a rape victim" and "did not struggle enough" and authorities said they didn't want to delay the scheduled return of the alleged attackers to the United States.

"The problem of rape in the military is not only service members getting raped, but it's the entire way that the military as a whole is dealing with it," said Panayiota Bertzikis, who is a plaintiff in the lawsuit and claims she was raped in 2006. "From survivors having to be involuntarily discharged from service, the constant verbal abuse, once a survivor does come forward your entire unit is known to turn their back on you. The entire culture needs to be changed."

Although The Associated Press normally does not identify the victims of sexual assault, the plaintiffs in the lawsuit have publicly discussed the cases.

Bertzikis, 29, of Somerville, Mass., now is executive director of the Military Rape Crisis Center. She says she was raped by a Coast Guard shipmate while out on a social hike with him in Burlington, Vt. Bertzikis complained to her commanding officer, but she said authorities did not take substantial steps to investigate the matter. Instead, she said, they forced her to live on the same floor as the man she had accused and tolerated others calling her a "liar" and "whore."

Pentagon spokesman Geoff Morrell said in a statement that sexual assault is a wider societal problem and that Gates has been working to ensure the military is doing all it can to prevent and respond to it.

"That means providing more money, personnel, training and expertise, including reaching out to other large institutions such as universities to learn best practices," Morrell said. "This is now a command priority, but we clearly still have more work to do in order to ensure all of our service members are safe from abuse."

The military had already planned to roll out a new hotline victims can call in April, said Pentagon spokeswoman Cynthia Smith. It has another initiative that encourages service members to help those who are assaulted or raped. In 2005, the military created an office charged with preventing sexual assault. Victims can opt to file a "restricted" or confidential report that allows them to get medical attention without an investigation being triggered.

Sarah Albertson, a former Marine corporal who is one of the plaintiffs in the lawsuit, said one of the hurdles in getting improvements in the system is that military commanders do not want any marks on their record such as a rape in their unit. Albertson alleges she reported she was raped in 2006 by a fellow Marine, but instead of helping her, she was forced to live one floor below the alleged perpetrator for two years.

"People who did believe me and had my back and were supportive of me were still telling me, 'Don't tell anybody about this, don't go to the public, don't let this get out because it will make the military look bad,'" Albertson said.

In many of the described cases, no charges were filed. In other cases, the alleged attackers faced lesser charges and were allowed to remain in the military, according to the lawsuit.

Kori Cioca, 25, of Wilmington, Ohio, described being hit in the face by a superior in one incident in 2005 and being raped by the same man in a second incident soon after while serving in the Coast Guard in Bay City, Mich.

Even though the man confessed to having sex with her, Cioca said in the lawsuit she was told if she pressed forward with reporting the sex as a rape, she would be court-martialed for lying. She said the man pleaded guilty only to hitting her and his punishment was a minor loss of pay and being forced to stay on the base for 30 days. She said she was discharged from the military for a "history of inappropriate relationships."

"You think of a Coast Guardsman, you think of somebody in the military holding themselves at a certain level," Cioca said. "When somebody walks up to you and shakes your hand and says, `Thank you for your service,' little do they know they're shaking the hand of a man who rapes and beats women in the military. "

She said she continues to suffer from numbness in her jaw and has nightmares.

"My body hurts every day. My face hurts. I get the most horrible headaches. My body has been trespassed. The honor that I had was stripped from me. I'm no longer proud of myself. People tell me thank you for your service, but my service wasn't what it was supposed to be," Cioca said.

Anuradha Bhagwati, 35, executive director of the Service Women's Action Network, said the Defense Department's own statistics show that fewer than one in five of these cases are even referred for court martial. She said unit commanders are the judge and the jury in these types of cases. Too often, she said, perpetrators are given non-judicial punishments.

"A lawsuit like this is needed because change cannot happen on the inside. DoD has had literally decades, perhaps more, to change the culture within the military. They've proven that they can't, and even the minor changes they've made the last few years are so superficial," Bhagwati said.

___

Online:

Service Women's Action Network: http://servicewomen.org/

Defense Department's site on sexual assault prevention: http://myduty.mil/

© 2011 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.
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  • Public Discussion (60)
Z1P2

What you mean locking them in empty trailers and treating them worse than animals isn't good enough for rape victims that are our own soldiers?

Careful girls, knowing the Pentagon, their solution to you demanding to be treated like human beings will be to issue immediate bad-conduct discharges to rape victims.

  • 5 votes
#1 - Tue Feb 15, 2011 8:15 AM EST
jabbausaf

Careful girls, knowing the Pentagon, their solution to you demanding to be treated like human beings will be to issue immediate bad-conduct discharges to rape victims.

Looks like they're actually doing that.

Even though the man confessed to having sex with her, Cioca said in the lawsuit she was told if she pressed forward with reporting the sex as a rape, she would be court-martialed for lying. She said the man pleaded guilty only to hitting her and his punishment was a minor loss of pay and being forced to stay on the base for 30 days. She said she was discharged from the military for a "history of inappropriate relationships."

But this is Republican America, where the woman gets punished for what the man does, because she drove him to lose control.

If this looks a lot like Taliban Afghanistan, there's a reason for that.

  • 8 votes
#1.1 - Tue Feb 15, 2011 8:21 AM EST
devilsadvocates

The female veterans need to get this done before the gop changes the defination of rape and stay out of Georgia cause they claime rape VICTIMS are just the accuser!

  • 6 votes
#1.2 - Tue Feb 15, 2011 8:27 AM EST
Tacitus13

Despite being bruised from her shoulders to elbows from being held down, she says charges weren't filed because the commander determined she "did not act like a rape victim" and "did not struggle enough" and authorities said they didn't want to delay the scheduled return of the alleged attackers to the United States.

Should these commanders be in charge? I'm thinking they should be forced to resign their commissions immediately!

  • 7 votes
#1.3 - Tue Feb 15, 2011 8:32 AM EST
Spikegary

Tacitus,

I agree. I knew someone in the Air Force that was married, her husband's friend raped her, when she tried to go forward and receive justice, her husband sided with his buddy and left her. Unbelievable that in this day and age people still do stuff like this and get away with it.

Rape is a crime of violence and should be treated as such. Period. No one should be allowed to walk away, especially with the ability of evidence including DNA. Some men are misogynists that think women don't belong in the service. I think people that think that way are the ones that don't belong. There is no honor in serving your country when you attack or permit others to attack the very same people you serve with.

For the jacka$$es who seem to think that this is a partisan problem, you are wrong. There are these kinds of people form all walks of life, from all belief systems.

  • 7 votes
#1.4 - Tue Feb 15, 2011 8:57 AM EST
cmlawyer-2385572

There needs to be a trained third party investigator as the first person to report the rape and abuse to-not a unit commander. Unit commanders are not trained to investigate, they have their own pressures to deal with (a rape in their unit could be a black mark on their own careers- at the very least, it shows that their unit is disfunctional), and they have their own prejudices. This is the same type of thing happening on college campuses, where campus police benefit from downplaying the incidences. Give these victims justice. Worried about protecting the accused? A properly trained third party investigator will be better at weeding out any false complaints than a non-trained unit commander.

  • 5 votes
#1.5 - Tue Feb 15, 2011 9:14 AM EST
Spikegary

The Air Force has instituted the SARC (Sexual Attack Response Coordinator) at every base who answers only to the Wing Commander-and can go over the Wing COmmanders head in certain circumstances. This is a good start, though there will always be issues when it comes to a 'Chain of Command' driven organization.

  • 4 votes
#1.6 - Tue Feb 15, 2011 9:28 AM EST
Shugga-Shugga

Maybe we need to have females in the pentagon handling these cases instead of men. However, regardless on what was done, the Pentagon officials are there to see to it that none of these woman will get fair justice. If they did, then they know there would have to be a big payout to the victims, and they don't want that coming out of their budgets and own pockets.

Maybe it the pentagon themselves are the ones that need to be put on trial for covering up crimes against the people.

  • 1 vote
#1.7 - Tue Feb 15, 2011 9:30 AM EST
ZenFreedom

The Air Force has instituted the SARC (Sexual Attack Response Coordinator)

That's actually a DoD directive. Each service has the SARC program up and running.

If they did, then they know there would have to be a big payout to the victims, and they don't want that coming out of their budgets and own pockets.

Unfortunately, you can't sue the military.

  • 2 votes
#1.8 - Tue Feb 15, 2011 9:40 AM EST
Spikegary

You can, in fact, sue the military, the hurdle you have to clear is the 'chain of command'. There has been multiple rulings that suing a superior causes rifts in 'Good Order and Discipline'. That being said there have been exceptions.

I believe these individuals should be held accountable as they are there to uphold the highest standards.

  • 1 vote
#1.9 - Tue Feb 15, 2011 9:45 AM EST
Hughmac312

Shug, please don't bring attention to the crimes of the Military Industrial Complex.

Don't you realize that they are all heroes? I mean it doesn't matter that the wars were poorly planned, executed, and there is no end plan. What does matter is that the military are all heroes.

And it doesn't matter that 4000 civilians die on the job each year, or that thousands more are injured. It also doesn't matter that without the citizens there would be no military. Or that they too pay the ultimate price for freedom.

The only thing that matters is that we keep the hero factories (wars) going so the MIC keeps getting richer and more powerful.

    #1.10 - Tue Feb 15, 2011 10:00 AM EST
    tobiii

    Too often, she said, perpetrators are given non-judicial punishments.

    And knowing a personal friend who was FALSELY accused, there is a reason for this. After all the dust settled, the accuser recanted her story, explaining she was "mad at him" because he wouldn't sleep with her. 15 years later, he STILL has the rape accusation in his his records. Explain THAT logic, would you?

    There are always THREE sides to every story. Never pass judgment based on ONE side.

    ----------------------------------------

    Did anyone else catch this comment -

    she was discharged from the military for a "history of inappropriate relationships."

    a HISTORY of inappropriate relationships - not a "single incident" - a HISTORY of "inappropriate" relationships.

    Let's hear the WHOLE story, not just the "woe is me" part of it.

    --------------------------------------

    The only thing that matters is that we keep the hero factories (wars) going

    Really? The Hero Factories?

    Pop Quiz -

    1) Name an Action Movie actor.

    2) Name a Drama Actor.

    3) Name a Comedy Actor.

    4) Who won the Super Bowl?

    5) Who was the MVP of the Super Bowl?

    Doesn't take very long to answer those questions, does it?

    4) Name the last Medal of Honor winner.

    Hero Factory, you say?

    • 1 vote
    #1.11 - Tue Feb 15, 2011 10:23 AM EST
    jabbausaf

    Vin Diesel

    Maggie Gyllenhaal

    Adam Sandler

    Green Bay

    Don't know

    Six comes after five, not four. And if the quiz is whether or not you can name any action, drama, or comedy actor, then you should be able to name any medal of honor winner. So, Richard O'Hare. He had O'Hare airport named after him. Or John Levitow.

      #1.12 - Tue Feb 15, 2011 11:06 AM EST
      tobiii

      You mention "Hero Factories" - you could at least name one of the SEVERAL in the past 3 years ALONE.

      What do you do? Name one from WW2, simply because of an Airport in your town? Then a Vietnam recipient?

      If the "hero Factories" you claim are needed, why is that you couldn't name ONE from the CURRENT WARS??

      Here's some names for you to research.

      Salvatore Giunta - Nov 16, 2010

      Robert Miller - Oct 6, 2010

      Jared Monti - Sep 17, 2009

      Ross McGinnis - Jun 5, 2008

      Mike Monsoor - Apr 8, 2008

      Mike Murphy - Oct 22, 2007

      Yeah, so much for your "Hero Factory" when you couldn't name ONE of these "Heroes" FROM THE CURRENT WARS.

      Thanks for establishing and confirming your ignorance.

      And now we return to our regularly scheduled program - the topic at hand, bashing the Military, once again.

      • 1 vote
      #1.13 - Tue Feb 15, 2011 11:57 AM EST
      jabbausaf

      I never used the term hero factories, you're attacking me over something somebody else said, but go ahead and keep projecting other people's words into my mouth.

      I'm actually an OEF and OIF veteran, I was actually in Baghdad in 2005, and I've got 3 siblings currently Active Duty in the Army, 2 brothers and a sister. My brother is stationed at Camp Casey in South Korea right now.

      So f*** you very much.

        #1.14 - Tue Feb 15, 2011 2:03 PM EST
        tobiii

        you couldn't name ONE from the CURRENT WARS??

        And you were ON Active Duty, DEPLOYED to Baghdad?

        What an embarassment. The only MoH winners you could think of were from WW2 and Vietnam - and you were on ACTIVE DUTY in 2005?

        So, let me ask you this, Jabbausaf - since you want to say "F*** you very much" to me, did you happen to notice the Softball Field there in Baghdad named after my buddy, Sammy Castle?

        Ever wonder why it was named after him? Or perhaps you want to say "F*** You" to him too?

        • 1 vote
        #1.15 - Tue Feb 15, 2011 5:01 PM EST
        jabbausaf

        If you're so obsessed with misdirecting your aggression, you must have made a @!$%#ty soldier.

        And another waste of air gets added to the ignore list.

          #1.16 - Wed Feb 16, 2011 12:19 AM EST
          ZenFreedom

          You can ask 30 Soldiers who were the last 5 people to win the MoH and you might get 5 who can tell you one and you might get 6 who actually care. The majority of awards that are given out in the military are merely political "thanks for showing up" medals. It's gotten to the point where medals aren't impressive anymore. Not to anyone who knows the process for getting medals, anyway. Not to belittle the MoH in anyway.

          And knowing a personal friend who was FALSELY accused, there is a reason for this.

          a HISTORY of inappropriate relationships - not a "single incident" - a HISTORY of "inappropriate" relationships.

          Anyone can go back through a counseling packet and make things up. Especially if they're trying to justify chaptering a service member out of the military. It's nothing new and it happens everyday. For someone to be falsely accused, I have to wonder what they were doing to bring about the accusation.

            #1.17 - Wed Feb 16, 2011 8:17 AM EST
            tobiii

            You just add to your list of assumptions, don't you?

            He was our Friend, He was the Soldier. Not me.

            Your observation skills are outstanding. Actually SERVING in the Armed Forces in Afghanistan and Iraq...and the only Names you can remember are from over 40 years ago.

            That in itself speaks volumes about your "service".

            • 1 vote
            #1.18 - Wed Feb 16, 2011 8:20 AM EST
            jabbausaf

            At least I served, instead of psychotically attacking people who did serve for not "winning" your trivia game.

            I'm pretty happy with me. You seem to be overcompensating for what you see as a deficiency in your own character, and you're projecting your own inadequacies onto others. It seems you feel guilty for not contributing to the nation's defense, so you have to attack people who did. These are your problems, not mine.

            And at least I can count to 6.

              #1.19 - Wed Feb 16, 2011 9:17 AM EST
              tobiii

              And at least I can count to 6.

              Must be proud of yourself. The ret of us call it a typo. But hey, sharpshoot all you want to validate your "service". Merely showing up in a Combat Zone does not make you a defender. I don't need to attack your service. We all know if you're not a Pilot in the USAF, you drive a desk.

              • 1 vote
              #1.20 - Wed Feb 16, 2011 11:33 AM EST
              DavePat

              We all know if you're not a Pilot in the USAF, you drive a desk.

              Actually, we don't all know that. In fact, some of us who have been in those Combat Zones, know that isn't the case at all.

              • 2 votes
              #1.21 - Wed Feb 16, 2011 11:50 AM EST
              jabbausaf

              I'm secure enough in the value of my military service that I'm not going to bring out all the things I've done to see if they meet with the approval of an armchair general. Especially one that's apparently only mad at me because I still remember the sacrifices of previous generations of warfighters in addition to the current generations.

              But, thanks Dave.

                #1.22 - Wed Feb 16, 2011 12:06 PM EST
                tobiii

                in addition to the current generations

                Current? You named a Vietnam Era recipient. You didn't name ANYONE in the past 40 years. If that's "current" in your book, you might try watching the news sometime.

                DavePat -

                My apologies to you if I stepped on your toes, but here we have Jabba who puffs his chest about showing up in Iraq and Afghanistan as if he was actually running patrols out of a FOB.

                As I stated, showing up in a Combat Zone doesn't make you a defender anymore than standing in McDonalds makes you an employee.

                If you'd like to discuss the origins of Buehring, Udairi Range Complex, LSA Adder, Diwaniyah, or those of us who were there LONG before any "Jabbas" showed up to park at their desk on Victory/Liberty, please, feel free to send me an Email.

                I view people like Jabba like those who are punished under the Stolen Valor Act, especially when they make this comment:

                I'm secure enough in the value of my military service that I'm not going to bring out all the things I've done

                • 1 vote
                #1.23 - Wed Feb 16, 2011 2:18 PM EST
                Reply
                yes I CAN

                No disrespect here as I am a female and a veteran..However if the military is just now 40 yrs later willing to acknowledge Agent Orange cases and pay claims on the few folks still alive who were poisoned ..Tell me is it really reasonable to believe the military is gonna investigate rape issues in any great detail and pay claims on those for damages etc...and make this situation any kind of priority ? It will never be allowed to be a situation ..And with 1 in 5 rape cases even REFERRED for court martial it certainly looks to be a military non issue .....Sad but true

                • 4 votes
                Reply#2 - Tue Feb 15, 2011 8:18 AM EST
                jabbausaf

                Just because that's the way it is doesn't mean that's the way it has to stay.

                • 9 votes
                #2.1 - Tue Feb 15, 2011 8:21 AM EST
                yes I CAN

                Agreed 100 percent....however this is gonna be a toughie to move on up to priority A list !!! I believe what will be hardest issue is that females I believe only 8-12 percent of the ranks and that will be hard to make a big push for change with small numbers and highest numbers of senior officers men and ranks...

                • 3 votes
                #2.2 - Tue Feb 15, 2011 8:32 AM EST
                cmlawyer-2385572

                Now is the perfect time to address this. With the repeal of DADT, there has to be additional diversity training and implementing of a formal process for complaints against discrimintation, verbal and physical abuse. That process should include a "police force" to investigate all of these complaints.

                • 2 votes
                #2.3 - Tue Feb 15, 2011 9:20 AM EST
                ZenFreedom

                You do know that each military service has their own law enforcement and further investigative agency? Not all sexual assaults are reported to the investigative services. When a unit decides to undertake a 15-6 investigation they usually botch the investigation and screw things up for the actual investigators (yes we are trained in criminal investigative procedures) to make a case out of and the perpetrators end up walking.

                  #2.4 - Tue Feb 15, 2011 9:44 AM EST
                  Hughmac312

                  Hey, don't bring up Vietnam.

                  we had a god given right, as our religion tells us, to murder those 2 million vietnamese gooks...are you even an American Christian Zealot or what?! Get on board the war train will you please.

                    #2.5 - Tue Feb 15, 2011 10:03 AM EST
                    cmlawyer-2385572

                    I do know that there are investigative services in all the branches. (NCIS is one of the top rated TV shows, you know.) BUT, it also appears from the article that the "proper chain of command" in reporting these abuses is to go to personel within the unit first. And to go to further than that after your CO has told you to shut up and sit down when you are in a war zone, is crazy, dangerous and a guaranteed career killer. Therefore, I conclude that the complaint needs to go around the command first, straight to investigators specifically trained to handle inter-military abuse complaints.

                    • 1 vote
                    #2.6 - Tue Feb 15, 2011 10:23 AM EST
                    Reply
                    ZenFreedom

                    Yay government cover-ups. Not surprising in the least. I wonder what they'd find if they actually went digging for more information on sexual assaults and misconduct by those with rank in the military?

                    • 1 vote
                    Reply#3 - Tue Feb 15, 2011 8:23 AM EST
                    DavePat

                    You recall the Navy's "Tailhook" scandal in Las Vegas from several years ago? There were some repercussions from the news coverage on that one at the time.

                    • 1 vote
                    #3.1 - Tue Feb 15, 2011 9:07 AM EST
                    Reply
                    Teddy-3026838

                    What?! Our military has grown dark and evil?

                      Reply#4 - Tue Feb 15, 2011 9:10 AM EST
                      Spikegary

                      No. Some individuals in our services are dark and evil. Just like in society at large. We are just a microcosm of that society.

                      • 2 votes
                      #4.1 - Tue Feb 15, 2011 9:32 AM EST
                      DavePat

                      Well put Spikegary and very true.

                      • 2 votes
                      #4.2 - Tue Feb 15, 2011 9:34 AM EST
                      Dennis-816242

                      Having served myself in several all male units I can tell you that yes, it's a microcosm, but one where there is less of the leveling having women around causes. More free-running testosterone and good-ol-boy networking. So it's actually a little more concentrated...

                      • 1 vote
                      #4.3 - Tue Feb 15, 2011 10:29 AM EST
                      Spikegary

                      Having served for 21+ years, I worked in many different locations, all of them were mixed sexes. Never once did I or anyone I know of rape anyone (I didn't know th one person's husband or friend-happened at her previous assignment). There are good people and bad people and people in between, just like society. As to testosterone, have you ever been on a football team?

                      • 2 votes
                      #4.4 - Tue Feb 15, 2011 1:16 PM EST
                      Dennis-816242

                      Exactly my point. Mixed genders works great, single gender - no so much when converting to mixed. They need to get through this and on to their jobs.

                      My own gut reaction is to up the penalty. Call it treason to rape a service member.

                      • 3 votes
                      #4.5 - Tue Feb 15, 2011 2:04 PM EST
                      Reply
                      kj031056-1

                      It's the very least we can do for our military veterans. They already put their lives at risk from the enemy, and the enemy shouldn't be the servicemen they serve with.....

                      • 4 votes
                      Reply#5 - Tue Feb 15, 2011 9:23 AM EST
                      Spikegary

                      Well said.

                      • 3 votes
                      #5.1 - Tue Feb 15, 2011 9:32 AM EST
                      Hughmac312

                      Really KJ, how many veterans have put their lives at risk?
                      The military industrial complex uses enlisted people as tools for marketing and propaganda, period. To legitimize their incompetence, their existence, and their corruption.

                      We have a huge standing military, lets make up some lies, go to war. WE'll do it badly so it drags out forever, so we can make more money, and we make more heroes so we can make more money. See how that works.

                      And to top it all off, we'll murder someone like Pat Tillman, but we'll claim he died in service. Or lets use Jessica Lynch and we can make up lies about her too.

                      It is lies, lies to justify lies, and lying liars.

                      You can't make it rain, then complain about the weather.

                      • 1 vote
                      #5.2 - Tue Feb 15, 2011 9:48 AM EST
                      Reply
                      Hughmac312

                      Huh, I can't believe the military screwed something up!?

                      sounds like a bungled snafu, great name for a band btw

                      • 1 vote
                      Reply#6 - Tue Feb 15, 2011 9:43 AM EST
                      "TKS the Engineer"

                      This is just despicable... This is no way to treat fellow soldiers - and no way for the government to treat people who have served.

                      I want to mention that these stories have been around and reported on (a little, and far too infrequently) since the wars started. Hopefully, the military under the Obama administration will be more attentive to these issues. The Bush administration simply ignored them for his entire term.

                      • 1 vote
                      Reply#7 - Tue Feb 15, 2011 9:45 AM EST
                      AlwaysThinking-2980635Deleted
                      Tired_of_ExtremistsDeleted
                      Jeff Jefferson-912478

                      Seems the discussion of don't ask don't tell is misplaced and the discussion should be about opposite sex violence.

                      • 2 votes
                      Reply#10 - Tue Feb 15, 2011 10:23 AM EST
                      bibielisa

                      Someone ought to tell 'Whitley' (the woman in charge of investigations who stated that according to research it takes about 8 - 10 years for the 'culture' to change) that criminals don't follow along cultural lines - they are consistent, throughout history, of their disregard for life and liberty...something that she and those same "soldiers" are supposed to be fighting for.

                      But, I wonder what the military code states, in terms of punishment for rape. If it less than castration then I am disappointed.

                      • 2 votes
                      Reply#11 - Tue Feb 15, 2011 3:06 PM EST
                      Spikegary

                      As it is in civil law for the regular American Citizen? I'm not saying I don't think that these people deserve anything less than castration, but I won't advocate for harsher penalties than you would receive for the same crime.

                      • 2 votes
                      #11.1 - Tue Feb 15, 2011 3:56 PM EST
                      Reply
                      AJ-2014

                      ""In one incident, an Army Reservist says two male colleagues raped her in Iraq and videotaped the attack. She complained to authorities after the men circulated the video to colleagues. Despite being bruised from her shoulders to elbows from being held down, she says charges weren't filed because the commander determined she "did not act like a rape victim" and "did not struggle enough" and authorities said they didn't want to delay the scheduled return of the alleged attackers to the United States.""

                      So was this comparison to other rape victims in a war zone surrounded by soldiers. There is an aspect of the harassment that can be attributed to the solider life and should be overlooked - but when words turn into harassment and harassment turn into physical and psychological harm the full force of military justice should be served.

                      There should however not be the same standard for sexual harassment in a war zone as there is in the business life. Soldiers who are brought up to believe females can’t do their job will always act as they are (18 – 25 year old single men in COMBAT ARMS are always amongst only themselves). But soliders that “GROW UP” with female colleges, such as MP’s in the US Amry, will continue to behave better than average (for the most part, with notable exemptions).

                      My point is - as long as females are left out of "Combat Arms" positions in the Army, they won't have respect. Combat arms soliders, such as the infantry, look down on all soliders who are non-combat arms wether they are male or female. Females however, are put in a position of being submissive in this male dominated environment, and the already aggressive ALPHA males feel like they can get away with whatever they want.

                      Equalize women in combant-arms and this problem will fade away (but always exist on some front).

                      • 1 vote
                      Reply#12 - Tue Feb 15, 2011 5:13 PM EST
                      tobiii

                      Equalize women in combant-arms and this problem will fade away

                      One only needs to look at the Army PT Standards.

                      h-t-t-p://www.army-fitness.com/

                      21 year old Male -
                      71 pushups to score 100%
                      13:00 minutes to run 2 miles for 100%

                      21 year old Female -
                      42 pushups to score 100%
                      15:36 minutes to run 2 miles for 100%

                      -----------------------------------------------

                      When women perform to the same standard, then, by all means, they are equal.

                      When they fight to be treated equal by achieving different standards....Not very equal, now, is it?

                      Good lord, that reads horribly...before you go off about bashing women, I'm merely pointing out the difference in "standards" - THAT IS ALL!

                      • 1 vote
                      #12.1 - Tue Feb 15, 2011 5:34 PM EST
                      magz

                      What does all of that have to do with rape?

                      • 2 votes
                      #12.2 - Tue Feb 15, 2011 5:49 PM EST
                      AJ-2014

                      Give men and women the same standards for the same jobs - and hold them all to the same standard. I'll think you'll be surprised what happens.

                      If you've been in combat-arms in the army - you'll know there are a lot of people who shouldn't be in a combat arms job but are still there (all men). I'm sure that there are enough women that are willing and able to fill those roles.

                      My solution = PT test by MOS and age... not by anyone who happens to wear a uniform and then gender.

                      Then women in the ranks prove and show the respect they deserve - the same as men. Although this problem will of rape will never go away - the overall aspect of respect will and correct the problem a great deal. Women can do the same job - and it has been proven in these wars. If you don't believe it, go to PLDC or in a MP BNOC - the difference between men and women with high motivation is null.

                      • 1 vote
                      #12.3 - Tue Feb 15, 2011 6:02 PM EST
                      Spikegary

                      So, equalizing PT tests will stop misogyinists and other twisted men from raping women? Or other men for that matter? Do you really think so? I don't think equal earned respect will make any difference to those men that would rape a woman in the first place.

                      • 3 votes
                      #12.4 - Tue Feb 15, 2011 6:39 PM EST
                      AJ-2014

                      No - not equalizing PT test - but equalizing women.

                      The military is based off of respect. Combat-arms soldiers are responsible for the majority of these charges. Women aren't allowed in combat-arms jobs. Combant solider see themselves as superior to all other people in the military - because they do what other people want to brag about and think everyone else is only there to support them.

                      My suggestion is - allow the women who want to be combat-arms to do so. They must meet the same standard as the men, but they will. A lot of men in these jobs won't be able to meet the standards. This will be an evolution of the weak leaving the those capable coming in (some of which will be women). That will equal a great deal of respect by those that are already there.

                      I'm not saying this will end all rape in the military. But it would end the amount that is highlighted in this article and hopefully the majority of it. Those RAPES that occur now or ever should be fully prosecuted.... but you'll only ever get full command support for when women are treated as equals within the ranks.

                      Military Police have had ranks mixed with men and women for years. They both fight in combat. The rate of rape within this MOS is lower than the Army in whole. My theory is it is because even though they serve in though conditions all over the world - they were trained and brought up together in the ranks. They trust and respect one another and sexual misconduct although it may happen - rape is very very low within there ranks.

                      • 2 votes
                      #12.5 - Tue Feb 15, 2011 6:51 PM EST
                      Spikegary

                      Fair enough. I have no issue with equal jobs based on equal standards. Anything that makes these vicious attacks on people happen less is a good thing.

                      • 1 vote
                      #12.6 - Tue Feb 15, 2011 9:13 PM EST
                      tobiii

                      Spike - AJ nailed it.

                      • 1 vote
                      #12.7 - Wed Feb 16, 2011 8:22 AM EST
                      Reply
                      AJ-2014

                      No - not equalizing PT test - but equalizing women.

                      The military is based off of respect. Combat-arms soldiers are responsible for the majority of these charges. Women aren't allowed in combat-arms jobs. Combant solider see themselves as superior to all other people in the military - because they do what other people want to brag about and think everyone else is only there to support them.

                      My suggestion is - allow the women who want to be combat-arms to do so. They must meet the same standard as the men, but they will. A lot of men in these jobs won't be able to meet the standards. This will be an evolution of the weak leaving the those capable coming in (some of which will be women). That will equal a great deal of respect by those that are already there.

                      I'm not saying this will end all rape in the military. But it would end the amount that is highlighted in this article and hopefully the majority of it. Those RAPES that occur now or ever should be fully prosecuted.... but you'll only ever get full command support for when women are treated as equals within the ranks.

                        Reply#13 - Tue Feb 15, 2011 6:51 PM EST
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