Judge: Willie Nelson won't have to sing in court

Er, you'll have to excuse me (or not) if I don't want to jump on the pot bandwagon. The stuff is bad news.

Davy,

Hmm. You don't have to smoke it. But I can.

Yup. You can get fined or go to the graybar hotel for it, too.

Not me. I have the fabled card of infinite pot smoking. A prescription.

Some say it is a legitimate medicinal use, and it may have that capability. But most of those with a "prescription" have it only as a legal pretext to get high. If the "medicinal" property of it could be isolated from the intoxicating effect and sold that way, I'd bet the use would drop precipitously.

Davy,

I use it for both reasons. Why would you want to take away what you call the intoxicating effects? Those effects include mood elevation, relaxation and and overall sense of well being. All of this without significantly impaired motor skills. There are some proven short term memory problems that occur only during usage.

My experience with the drug is that it is much more effective at handling pain than the oxycontin I was prescribed. The ancillary effects that comprise the high make it fun to take the medicine and help with the rigors of suffering a debilitating illness.

People use all kinds of substances and situations to give themselves a sense of well being. I don't see much wrong with this kind of behavior if it is done responsibly.

...fun to take the medicine...

...to give themselves a sense of well being.

But I'd say it is pretty much nothing more than an escape. I'd also say that as a nation we're in deep doody, and escapes don't really accomplish anything, even in good times. A depression is still a depression, even when people sit around under the influence.

Davy,

Hmm, escapism. Hard to argue with that, really. I'm escaping pain and ameliorating a lot of the psychological effects of pain by using marijuana.

If I were still taking oxycontin for pain, would you feel as uncomfortable with my escaping pain?

Marijuana is a drug. It has uses and benefits. The judgement that is attached to it is unreasonable.

People escape into books, movie theaters, sex, alcohol, hobbies, et. al. Why should my method tailored for my life's situation be unacceptable because it represents an escape?

No, I'm not saying anyone should writhe in pain; but I think for most, this is simply a matter of getting high. That's why virtually anyone in a "medicinal pot" state can find some doctor who's willing to facilitate it. I look at legalization this way:

• It would raise some tax, but there simply ain't that much money around. It would be grown or imported and sold to avoid the tax, much as moonshine is to this day.
• The idea that the cartels would simply give up and start attending night school is a fantasy. They would just move on to the next poison-du-jour.
• A big savings on law enforcement is also a fantasy. The law people would also move on, to fighting the next poison.
• It would significantly increase use among kids; those of age would be selling it to them to make a few bucks. Can't you hear the "adults" now laughing about how it was illegal, and egging the kids on?
• Related to the above, it is a gateway drug. If you are older and won't use anything else, great! There are plenty of kids who won't resist.

You may think I'm somehow involved in law enforcement, but I'm not; I'm a retired engineer who's seen a lot of stuff, some good but a lot of it, like this, bad.

Davy,

Legality is not an issue in my situation.

I have to reiterate that your seeming dismissal of the motive of getting high is highly prejudicial. Someone has made a judgement that having sex to feel good is okay, smoking tobacco is okay, consuming alcohol is okay, watching sappy movies is okay, sharping people out of their money using the law is OK, going up to complete strangers on the street and quizzing them on their personal relationship with God is 'O' @!$%#ing 'K', but if I decide that I want to cultivate an indigenous weed in order to smoke it, why throw me in prison for hairy back freaks to rape.

I gotta tell you, your position seems unreasonable, to me.

That said, if you tax pot, you simply create either a black market or a huge increase in enforcement.

Screw the cartels and legalize all substances. Alot of them could be easily taxed and a hell of a lot more safely produced. I repeat who the hell are we to tell some one they can't eat bacon.

Don't worry about law enforcement. The more likely scenario is that corporations will have forced privatized prisons in this country and created a permanent underclass of determined prisoners. That's where the jobs will be, you see.

On a side note, I was imprisoned for rape, I sure as hell deserved to be there. I've seen it first hand in all it's ripely miserable glory. Prison isn't the country club you imagine and putting a nineteen year old kid within reach of some of the freaking maniacs in there is called systemized rape. That is what happens to you in this country if you dare to smoke pot. The hypocritical bastards who've often admitted to similar offenses teach everyone else a lesson with your anus.

Every kid I know from Bible belt Camden Point to wide open Grand Junction has at least tried pot. It would be difficult for any significant increase to take place given my admittedly limited exposure to the hidden lives of teens. I tried it as a kid and so did every other kid I knew.

Marijuana is two steps from being a gateway drug. Tobacco and alcohol are one and two. Kids experiment. That is likely why we have everything from fire to personal computers. It's the young kids that dream stuff up. Drugs are part of that. Kind of hard to turn it around and say that drugs make kids experiment though.

As a final note, much of what I have said may seem as though it is directed at you personally, Davy. In many cases I was writing to a larger audience. Specifically speaking, when I was expressing my contempt for the politcians, judges, and prosecutors who send all kids but their own to prison for drugs, none of that emotional backlash is directed at you.

You seem entirely reasonable to me; however, the topic stirs a passionate response in me. Perhaps in that response I lose some sense of reason myself. :)

Hey I would much rather see someone using Marijuana to relieve pain & other medical issues, than see people become addicted to prescription medications. I've lost to many friends & loved ones to prescription medicine either still suffering from the addiction or overdosed.

If I consume Marijuana it does not affect anyone else but me. It does not affect someones health that is standing in the same area as me. It has never been found to be the cause of any medical problems or terminal illness. It does not impair your mind or body enough to disrupt your ability to function normally throughout the day or your ability to safely drive a motor vehicle without in-dangering the lives of others. It is a natural high that comes from an all natural plant that grows from the ground & does not require any man made chemicals that cause addiction or terminal diseases. I am a firm believer that Marijuana does not cause addiction or lead to the use of other drugs. If you want to stop smoking Marijuana it is as easy as making up your mind to do so, you might be quite bitchy but other than that there are no withdrawal's to suffer from. If you teach children & teens the affects & dangers of all drugs, then they would be less likely to allow smoking a little harmless pot to lead to trying out some meth or other hard drugs that can kill them. Seeing as how I am witness to how young teens start experimenting drugs & know that they will, I would much rather see my teen smoking a little pot with friends rather than seeing them getting drunk & dieing in a car accident.

Whether it's legal or not people will smoke it. As long as it is for personal use, you are less likely to get into any trouble at all if your lucky & if not the fines are nothing compared to if you were trying to sell it by the boat loads.

If you don't smoke it, it doesn't affect you, so why fight against making it legal, if you don't want to smoke it don't smoke it... Just like if you don't want to smoke cigarette's, don't smoke them. If you don't want to drink alcohol, don't drink it... Marijuana smokers are not trying to make cigarette's & alcohol illegal, and they are the direct cause several terminal illnesses... I'm not saying I think people should be able to burn down out in public, but people smoking in the privacy of their own home & on their own property is nobody's business & does not affect any one in any way.

flameaway, your honesty and candor are applauded here! Not many people would be so publicly honest about mistakes of their past. 

As the daughter and mother of Addicts (presciption meds) I can honestly relate. I've flushed a full 90 day script of oxycontin down the toilet to keep it from my mother, I've put my adult child out on the street on the side of the highway -physically. I would much rather them smoke a little and chill out, than take pills and die. Luckily by the Grace of God they are both in recovery now and by the same Grace I hope they stay there.

I've commented similarly before on seeds about pot, and caught hell from those who like to use it. Some of them say as you do, flameaway, to legalize everything. I can imagine nothing worse than to have a bunch of people seeking the next trip or escape, and winding up with ruined lives, if not dead. We legalized alcohol; while I've gone beyond where I should have with it, I've thus far managed to avoid the harm that I've seen happen to others and the costs that society pays for those effects. My intent is not to make it difficult on anybody, just to prevent as much as possible, similar damage with pot and all the rest of the crap.

What kind of damage have you seen caused by smoking pot? (Just curious Davy, no attitude intended.) And I'm with you about the rest of the drugs in the world remaining illegal. We've got enough people in this world addicted to meth, cocaine, crack, heroin, etc.etc., could you imagine how much worse it would be if it was legal. Really, I don't want to imagine that, it's bad enough already... :(

What I see is that anyone that wants the stuff can get it anyway. When you criminalize, the cost to society is much greater than the addicts. The cost is more prisons, organized crime and corruption. And guess what? After all of that you still have the addicts. I don't understand why we keep having to learn this lesson. Prohibition is foolish.

Why do people assume that there will be a sudden increase in addiction. As I said, anyone that wants it can get it.

Maybe this will put it into perspective for you: I celled with three different guys at three different times who used herion. While in prison. Four walls, barbed wire, officers with guns, dogs and still they got herion and used it. The best way to smuggle I ever heard of was the person who fired tennis balls over the wall and into the yard during yard time. The guards finally caught on when a fight broke out over the ball.

So, how many miles of useless wall do you want to build for someone to throw tennis balls over?

So, how many miles of useless wall do you want to build for someone to throw tennis balls over?

Too funny!!! I don't know about building endless walls.... :) When I was young, I did something I am completely ashamed of, I helped my X-boyfriend smuggle weed in. He worked on the yard crew that got to leave the jail, at night I'd leave it in a Sonic cup or something where he was going to be the next day. I don't know how he did it but he got it in. I only did it twice before realizing he was just using me, both before & after he went in. Its been 13yrs or more & still to this day I don't tell anybody I did that, I was scared out of my mind. I don't tell anyone who knows me because I don't want them to judge me, I wasn't a bad person, just hanging out with the wrong guy...

Why do people assume that there will be a sudden increase in addiction. As I said, anyone that wants it can get it.

Yes they can, quite easily too... The reason I think that there would be an increase in addiction if drugs were legal is because I'm affraid our youth & other uneducated individuals will think that because it is legal it's okay to do it, therefore would cause more people to become addicted. Plus, people who are already addicted will have a worse addiction problem because it would be so much easier to get their hands on. Now I'm talking about the bad stuff like meth, cocaine, heroin, etc.etc. not Marijuana... People who think they are addicted to Marijuana either just don't want to quit or are scared to quit in fear of going through some kind of withdrawal's or something because they get a little edgy. There are those out there who have addictive personalities and suffer with addiction to multiple things, if they like it they're hooked immediately. But the amount of people using Marijuana would definitely increase if it was legal. I know several people of all ages & some Police Officers that would smoke it (on their own time not on the clock) in a heart beat if it was legal... But addiction to Marijuana, no way, I'm not falling for it!!! I smoked for 12yrs morning noon & night, and about 5yrs ago I quit cold turkey, only because I had to not because I wanted to(luckily I don't work for them anymore)...

I hope all is well for you flameaway, if smoking Marijuana helps you, more power to you!!! I know it helps me sometimes, & it's not an escape for me either, it keeps my nerves calm so I don't snap people's heads off sometimes... :)

There are enterprising ones, I admit it, when it comes to smuggling. If only they could use their ingenuity in legitimate work! I see the situation basically as unlimited widespread pot availability leading to more use by kids, of pot and then the next poison(s). Lots of them are turned on by the idea of trying it, and any number of those who could buy it legally, would provide it to the kids, just as alcohol is now. I can hear the providers: "Yeah, it was illegal, but the 'reefer madness' BS is BS, and it's great stuff." Lord help us if and when the floodgates are opened and there are no availability restrictions at all.

I really think that if parents took the time to really educate their children about the dangers of all drugs, instead of leaving it up to schools & peers, there would be a lot less kids wanting to experiment them with their friends. If they know the real detailed dangers of drugs & the affects they could have on their lives, they would be less likely to try them at all. But if you just tell them "hey, just say no" or "hey, don't do that" or "drugs are bad for you" they're not going to believe that when they see their friends doing it & think "hey, they did it they're okay, I'll be okay too"... Teach them so they will know, just because your friend is okay after doing it doesn't mean they will be okay too, or he's okay this time but will he be next time. Plus, an educated peer could also say "hey, do you know what thats gonna do to you if you do that, it's gonna............ or it could..........", and maybe change their minds just in time.... To me, it's worth a try!!!

My favorite addict story:

I was living with this guy in a cell about the size of a bathroom. Two bunk beds and a desk. It was actually pretty nice. The toilet was down the hall instead of in the room.

I'm just coming back after walking around the yard. I open the door and there sits my cellie, on my bunk, with vomit sprayed down the front of him. He's kind of fallen a bit to the side and is clearly in the state known as 'nodding' from using heroin. Which is semi conscious at best. So I get the mess cleaned up, get him off of my bed and onto the floor.

I'm sitting there reading and the guy comes to:

"You puked all over yourself."

"Yeah that happens."

"If I puked everytime I did something, I'd stop doing it."

"No, you don't understand, puking feels good."

I stopped listening about then.

I agree

I think I should be allowed if I so choose because I am an adult. I'm also a taxpayer, an employee ( 2 jobs), a homeowner, and as most all good hard working Americans , I owe the bank money for a car which is heavily insured.

As long as it's not killing your brain cells and affecting your overall quality of life what's the problem. Individually people are stressing the fact that the need this herbal treatment. Give it to them. It might be reversal in the way it affects their body and cause more harm NOT to have. I am so tired of doctors thinking they know it all about everybody. Sometimes the doctors, the studies and the research is incorrect