Newsvine
  • Welcome
  • Help
  • Report Bug
  • Conversation Tracker
  • Your Column
  • Replies
  • Friends
Type Comments Since You Last CheckedArticle Source Last Checked Stop Tracking All Clear Tracking All
Advertise | AdChoices
Log In | Register
Close the Login Panel
Existing users log in below. New users please register for a free account.

New Users:

Existing Users:

E-Mail:
Password:
Forgot Password?
Please enter the e-mail address or domain name you registered with:
E-Mail/Domain:
Back to Login
Log Out
  • Top News
  • Local News
  • World
  • U.S.
  • Sports
  • Politics
  • Tech
  • Entertainment
  • Science
  • Business
  • Health
  • Odd News
  • More
    • Arts
    • Education
    • Environment
    • Fashion
    • History
    • Home & Garden
    • Not News
    • Religion
    • Travel
What is Newsvine?

Updated continuously by citizens like you, Newsvine is an instant reflection of what the world is talking about at any given moment.

Get a Free Account
Help
Fun Stuff
  • Your Clippings
  • Leaderboard
  • E-Mail Alerts
  • Top of the Vine
  • Newsvine Live
  • Newsvine Archives
  • The Greenhouse
  • Recommended Articles
  • Wall of Vineness
Put a Seed Newsvine link on your own site

Circumcision ban to appear on San Francisco ballot

Wed May 18, 2011 5:54 PM EDT
us-news, us, san-francisco, ban, circumcision-ban
Robin Hindery, Associated Press
< PreviousNext >
showing 1 of 7 photos
<p>In this Sunday, May 15, 2011 photo, Rabbi Gil Leeds discusses a proposed ballot initiative banning circumcision shortly after performing a brit milah, a Jewish circumcision ceremony, in San Francisco. San Francisco voters in November will be asked to weigh in on what was until now a private family matter: male circumcision. City elections officials confirmed Wednesday, May 18, 2011 that an initiative that would ban the circumcision of males younger than 18 in San Francisco has received enough signatures to appear on the ballot. The practice would become a misdemeanor. (AP Photo/Noah Berger)</p>

In this Sunday, May 15, 2011 photo, Rabbi Gil Leeds discusses a proposed ballot initiative banning circumcision shortly after performing a brit milah, a Jewish circumcision ceremony, in San Francisco. San Francisco voters in November will be asked to weigh in on what was until now a private family matter: male circumcision. City elections officials confirmed Wednesday, May 18, 2011 that an initiative that would ban the circumcision of males younger than 18 in San Francisco has received enough signatures to appear on the ballot. The practice would become a misdemeanor. (AP Photo/Noah Berger)

Advertise | AdChoices

SAN FRANCISCO — A proposal to ban the circumcision of male children in San Francisco has been cleared to appear on the November ballot, setting the stage for the nation's first public vote on what has long been considered a private family matter.

But even in a city with a long-held reputation for pushing boundaries, the measure is drawing heavy fire. Opponents are lining up against it, saying a ban on a religious rite considered sacred by Jews and Muslims is a blatant violation of constitutional rights.

Elections officials confirmed Wednesday the initiative had qualified for the ballot with more than 7,700 valid signatures from city residents. Initiatives must have at least 7,168 names to qualify.

If the measure passes, circumcision would be prohibited among males under the age of 18. The practice would become a misdemeanor offense punishable by a fine of up to $1,000 or up to one year in jail. There would be no religious exemptions.

The proposed ban appears to be the first in the country to make it this far, though a larger national debate over the health benefits of circumcision has been going on for many years. Banning circumcision would almost certainly prompt a flurry of legal challenges alleging violations of the First Amendment's guarantee of the freedom to exercise one's religious beliefs.

Supporters of the ban say male circumcision is a form of genital mutilation that is unnecessary, extremely painful and even dangerous. They say parents should not be able to force the decision on their young child.

"Parents are really guardians, and guardians have to do what's in the best interest of the child. It's his body. It's his choice," said Lloyd Schofield, the measure's lead proponent and a longtime San Francisco resident. He added the cutting away of the foreskin from the penis is a more invasive medical procedure than many new parents or childless individuals realize.

But opponents say such claims are alarmingly misleading, and call the proposal a clear violation of constitutionally protected religious freedoms.

"For a city that's renowned for being progressive and open-minded, to even have to consider such an intolerant proposition ... it sets a dangerous precedent for all cities and states," said Rabbi Gil Yosef Leeds of Berkeley. Leeds is a certified "mohel," the person who traditionally performs ritual circumcisions in the Jewish faith.

He said for the past few months he has been receiving daily phone calls from members of the local Jewish community who are concerned about the proposed ban. But he said he is relatively confident that even if the measure is approved, it will be abruptly — and indefinitely — tied up in litigation.

Jews consider religious male circumcision a commandment from God. It also is widely practiced by Muslims, and while it does not appear in the Quran it is mentioned in the Sunnah, the sayings of the Prophet Muhammad. Most Christian denominations neither require nor forbid circumcision.

The initiative's backers say its progress is the biggest success story to date in a decades-old, nationwide movement by so-called "intactivists" to end circumcision of male infants in the United States. A similar effort by the Tarrytown, N.Y.-based group Intact America to introduce a circumcision ban in the Massachusetts Legislature last year failed to gain traction.

"It's been kind of under the radar until now, but it was a conversation that needed to happen," Schofield said of the debate over male circumcision. "We've tapped into a spark with our measure — something that's been going on for a long time."

Schofield's group calls its initiative the San Francisco Male Genital Mutilation bill, though he said the city attorney has opted to call the measure "Male Circumcision" on the ballot. The group's official website features a picture of a wide-eyed, delighted-looking baby and urges visitors to help "protect ALL infants and children in San Francisco from the pain and harm caused by forced genital cutting."

Female genital cutting, a controversial practice that usually involves the removal of the clitoris, is illegal in the United States. A circumcision ban would simply extend the same protections to males, Schofield said.

International health organizations have promoted circumcision as an important strategy for reducing the spread of the AIDS virus. That's based on studies that showed it can prevent AIDS among heterosexual men in Africa.

But there hasn't been the same kind of push for circumcision in the U.S., in part because nearly 80 percent of American men are already circumcised, a much higher proportion than the worldwide average of 30 percent. Also, HIV spreads mainly among gay men in the U.S., and research indicates circumcision doesn't protect gay men from HIV.

For years, federal health officials have been working on recommendations regarding circumcision. The effort was sparked by studies that found circumcision is partially effective in preventing the virus' spread between women and men. The recommendations are still being developed, and there is no date set for their release, said a spokeswoman for the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

The CDC doesn't have a position on the San Francisco proposal, said the spokeswoman, Elizabeth-Ann Chandler.

The chief of pediatric urology at the University of California, San Francisco Benioff Children's Hospital said he remains neutral on the subject of circumcision when parents come to him seeking advice. Dr. Laurence Baskin said he instead tries to educate them about the medical benefits and potential downsides of the procedure.

In addition to the AIDS studies, Baskin cited published research indicating that circumcision can reduce the incidence of other sexually transmitted diseases, as well as penile cancer and urinary tract infections. He disputed claims that circumcision is mutilation or causes significant pain.

"It has what I would say would be a minimal amount of pain if done properly, so my recommendation is to use anesthesia," he said. However, he noted, "most people aren't circumcised and they do just fine."

Baskin was not neutral on the subject of the new ballot measure, calling it "a bunch of nonsense."

"I'm not going to stop doing circumcisions, and this would never pass the First Amendment test," he said. "The people who are doing this should focus on our budget problems, lack of education — something that could really help society."

___

AP Medical Writer Mike Stobbe contributed to this report from Atlanta.

© 2011 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.
  • Enjoy this article? Help vote it up the 'Vine.

Back To Top | Front Page

Published to:

  • Robin Hindery's Column, All of Newsvine
  • Groups: none
  • Regions: United States , San Francisco/Oakland/San Jose
  • Public Discussion (47)
Par4TheCourse

Capital R -iculous !!!!!!!!!!!!!

What a bunch of freaking morons. #1.. There is more important things out there to consider... Whomever it is.. and I did not read the article because it is a waste of time like this bill to assert ones ideas onto others of a personal nature.. Up their living moronic arses..

  • 2 votes
Reply#1 - Wed May 18, 2011 6:13 PM EDT
Janeinthisworld

it is a waste of time like this bill to assert ones ideas onto others of a personal nature

And yet we do it all the time. Propositions go on ballots all the time trying to regulate personal behavior that has no effect on anyone else.

  • 2 votes
#1.1 - Wed May 18, 2011 6:38 PM EDT
Citizen Kane-473667

Propositions go on ballots all the time trying to regulate personal behavior that has no effect on anyone else.

Circumsion is an interaction between an adult charged with protecting their child and an infant who can't speak. Prostitution is an interaction between two consenting adults. The baby gets cut. Neither the hooker nor the john get hurt.

Not any worse than telling me who I can marry. Can't marry other boys or girls, can't marry too young, can't marry too old, can't marry my dog or my cat. Can't marry crazy, can't marry too stupid. At least I can still marry richer or poorer or I would be in jail....

  • 4 votes
#1.2 - Wed May 18, 2011 10:45 PM EDT
Little Sure Shot

The parents will just hire moyles (sp) to do the job after they take junior home.

  • 1 vote
#1.3 - Wed May 18, 2011 10:54 PM EDT
Janeinthisworld

It won't matter. If this proposition passes, no one will be able to perform a circumcision within the city limits of SF, whether its in the hospital or at a private location.

My question is, who will be charged with the misdemeanor? Will it be the parents for allowing the circumcision? Or will it be the doctor or religious representative who will be charged? All of the above? Will the people who attend the bris be charged as accessories?

  • 3 votes
#1.4 - Thu May 19, 2011 12:08 PM EDT
Had-E-Nuf

OMG...what else can people yammer about?

  • 1 vote
#1.5 - Thu May 19, 2011 9:34 PM EDT
Reply
MalfunktionDeleted
crumplecup

Without proving a serious health risk, this falls under freedom of religion. The Lord directs Abraham to circumcise every male in his household and every newborn on the 8th day. Performing the surgery in infancy is proscribed by God not as a health measure but as a way to set apart the Jews as God's people... a loyalty pledge.

Unless you can prove this practice has a long-term health risk, I think this bill is unconstitutional.

  • 2 votes
Reply#3 - Wed May 18, 2011 7:16 PM EDT
warrior wheatman

@crumpledup

I DO think it has serious health risks.

What Abraham did to identify his people and set them apart (not just his personal family, but also ALL his people And their slaves) was for war/defense, conquering and enslaving, and extermination - so that the world would know HIM and HIS GOD.

To this day, Abrahamic people are distrustful and at war - ...

If only it was for health reasons ...peace.

    #3.1 - Fri May 20, 2011 7:17 PM EDT
    Reply
    Elvis-362920

    Typical San Freakso lunacy.

    You can only wonder what cretins came up with this bright idea.

    • 2 votes
    Reply#4 - Wed May 18, 2011 7:34 PM EDT
    RightBrainMuse

    So there's this guy up the street who has multiple piercings in his ears, a pierced eyebrow, nipples, one nostril, and, of course,… his tongue. When the circumcision issue came up a few months ago, he argued that circumcision would have reduced his options regarding body decoration there. So, now we know one more place where he has "improved on God's work" (as he likes to put it)! Jeez!

    • 3 votes
    Reply#5 - Wed May 18, 2011 9:30 PM EDT
    BLD

    What is the most moronic thing about this is that San Francisco is so liberal and full of people who hated Bush and hate Repubs and conservatives as being like Nazis, etc. Yet, aren't they the ones who want to control behavior most? Don't they have rules about pets (something about having to adopt one instead of getting a "new" one?)? Don't they have rules outlawing happy meals? Something about soda in machines in the city? They support the ban of regular lightbulbs and would probaby prefer gas-powered vehicles be outlawed. They rail against Repubs on gay rights - let people marry who they want, live how they want - yet they want to micromanage every other aspect of your lives.

    When are people going to wake up and say enough is enough.

    • 1 vote
    Reply#6 - Wed May 18, 2011 11:14 PM EDT
    Rick Cain4150

    They also ban water bottles, which IMHO is a great idea!

    • 1 vote
    #6.1 - Mon Jun 13, 2011 2:07 PM EDT
    Reply
    huskergal

    This proposition is unconstitutional from the get go. A State. city, town, village, etc can not make a law that goes against the constitution:

    Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

    It is in the bible that all Israelite males must be circumcised.It is God's Covenant with the Israelites. So where do they come up with; "

    There would be no religious exemptions!!!!

    Where is this type of thinking coming from? What is next? No more Baptisms? No more confirmations?

    This is making law about religion. It is taking away some groups religious freedom.

    Who has asked anyone to mind everyone's business and given permission for some to take away individual choice?

      Reply#7 - Thu May 19, 2011 9:36 AM EDT
      Janeinthisworld

      Your Constitutional rights regarding your religious beliefs do not necessarily extend to your children, though. Look at parents who try to deny their children medical care based on their religious beliefs. In some cases the state steps in and tries to legally force medical care for the minor and sometimes even removes the child from an otherwise fit parent. It's a blurry line.

        #7.1 - Thu May 19, 2011 11:25 AM EDT
        Citizen Kane-473667

        Just ask the polygamous Mormon's about religious freedom...

        • 1 vote
        #7.2 - Thu May 19, 2011 7:06 PM EDT
        BLD

        7.1 - Then extend that to anything a parent does to a child. Will they ban people piercing a baby or toddler's ears? Cutting their hair? If a parent feels their child should be circumcised - whether for religious reasons or some other reason - that is the parent's right. Remember, this is a free country where parents raise their kids, whether we always agree with those decisions. Do you really want the govt. deciding what parents do or don't do with their kids?

        I really can't equate withholding medicine from a child to a circumcision.

          #7.3 - Fri May 20, 2011 5:18 PM EDT
          huskergal

          I really can't equate withholding medicine from a child to a circumcision.

          Neither can I, but it is still unconstitutional for courts to encroach upon religion. However, to save a life, intervention may be necessary. Circumcision is not life threatening and it it partof religious tradition; just as baptism is. Going further, baptism endangers the life of the baby as the child can drown. Maybe San Fransisco should ban baptism too.

            #7.4 - Mon May 23, 2011 10:41 AM EDT
            Janeinthisworld

            I really can't equate withholding medicine from a child to a circumcision.

            It's totally subjective whether you think a certain medical procedure is necessary versus medicine. It's just not so black and white. The following story is an excellent example.

            Mother Battles Michigan over daughter's medication

            • 1 vote
            #7.5 - Mon May 23, 2011 11:53 AM EDT
            huskergal

            No, it is not black and white. Why does the girl need an anti psychotic drug? This article leaves me with many questions the main one is why is social services involved if there is no court order for this medication to be given the child. Can it be that the state has overstepped it's bounds?

              #7.6 - Mon May 23, 2011 1:00 PM EDT
              Reply
              warrior wheatman

              @7.0 Huskergal

              This law would be upholding the Constitution. It would ban religious rites that forever mark children. Immigrants that claim it is their religious right to kill in order to prevent a person from changing their religion is also prohibited. Be careful how you interpret the Constitution.

              Let a man be and becomea man by voluntarily choosing his religious marking.

              • 1 vote
              Reply#8 - Mon May 23, 2011 2:46 PM EDT
              huskergal

              Okay. so let us start a movement to stop the baptism and/or confirmations of children. Let them choose whether to be baptized and/or confirmed or not when they become of age. What you are saying is that parents should not force their religious traditions on children for it is unconstitutional to do so.

                #8.1 - Tue May 24, 2011 12:19 PM EDT
                warrior wheatman

                We're talking about circumcision - bodely cutting and marking - we are not talking about educating, inviting, accepting, or celebrating. We are talking about a rite, not about primitive custom believe.

                Do you remember the de-brainwashing trials of parents who had their daughter abducted and subjected to RE-brainwashing? Not legal.

                  #8.2 - Tue May 24, 2011 10:48 PM EDT
                  huskergal

                  There is no difference between circumcision and baptism and/or confirmation. The child doesn't get a choice. It is not up to you, congress, the state, or anyone to pass a law against a religious custom. What is the matter? Circumcision is in the Bible. As a matter of fact, Jesus was circumcised. You haven't heard him protest it, have you? No, He followed the commands, laws and rules of the OT. He taught how to live those words. Now people think that this generation can change God's word or outlaw it.

                    #8.3 - Wed May 25, 2011 9:55 AM EDT
                    warrior wheatman

                    There are many things in the bible we don't do anymore. Feel free to celebrate your religion, but primitive body-cutting rituals should not be one of them (your own body you retain the right of). The wisdom of these rites came from a time when women were property, and property meant survival. Prohibiting photos of women (Hillary Clinton erased from Orthodox Jewish newspaper photo); Women having their head veiled or hatted in church; women getting the vote; hermorphodites getting castrated 'for their own good'; are all a prelude to changes the rest of the world still has to deal with to live in yours. Universal Human Rights is a very Christian American thing. Jesus would have voted for it.

                    • 1 vote
                    #8.4 - Thu May 26, 2011 1:45 AM EDT
                    huskergal

                    Jesus would have voted for it? My my. now you can speak for Jesus. Jesus followed the Law. He taught that one should obey the law and you think he would vote to break it. Wake up and discover for yourself what the bible says.

                    The Importance of the Law: Matthew 5:18

                    I tell you the truth, nothing will disappear from the law until heaven and earth are gone. Not even the smallest letter or the smallest part will be lost until everything has happened.

                    Read these words. Now ask yourself, has heaven and earth disappeared? No! Has everything happened yet? No! If everything happened we wouldn't be here and there would be no need for the law. Circumcision is part of the law.

                    Yes there are many things in the bible that people do not think they do anymore, yet they do it. For example; when one cooks a meal one is offering up burnt offerings to God. One can can eat from this offering for three days, then it must be thrown away.

                    What we have done away with mostly is sexual sin. We have prostituted ourselves for money and material goods. We have committed adultery by turning away from God in search of power and greed. We have turned away from the basic tenets of the law. Ask yourself: Do we care for the widow? the fatherless children? the poor, the strangers amongst us? Do the wealthy cheat workers of their wages?

                    So sit on you pedestal and talk for Jesus and the Lord Almighty and see where that gets you. I, on the other hand, will let Jesus talk for himself.

                      #8.5 - Thu May 26, 2011 9:19 AM EDT
                      warrior wheatman

                      Huckstergal; unless you are male, and orthodox Jew, you sound silly.

                      I bet you own a fridge, show your unveiled face to strangers, and enjoy cloven meats.

                      On what legality was Jesus crucified?

                        #8.6 - Fri May 27, 2011 9:25 AM EDT
                        huskergal

                        The above comment shows that people do not understand the Bible or the Word of God. Jesus understood it and God sent him to teach us how to live the words and lead those that followed him to the throne of God.

                          #8.7 - Sat May 28, 2011 5:26 AM EDT
                          warrior wheatman

                          Huskergal, I hope you stay strong and open to God's guidance, as espoused by Jesus; and that someday you'll join us... and the world will be as one.

                          • 1 vote
                          #8.8 - Sun May 29, 2011 3:51 AM EDT
                          Reply
                          H-3522360

                          ok, first off, San Francisco has a loud population of people who are not progressive but anarchistic. These folk are against ANYTHING accepted by society. I had one child before parents could choose and one after. Their father chose circumcision for the youngest so he would not be different.

                          Female African circ vs western male circ. Male has foreskin removed, female has vulva, lips, clitoris removed. Object: so she may be chaste and faithful to her spouse when married.

                          Fetus vs zygote. My father born late in life to my grandmother after a very difficult, very short pregnancy. He was born well within the abortable "zygote stage. He lived close to his 100th year. He was a thoughtful, creative, responsible man who founded and raised his own family. He survived his early birth with his loving parent's care and without the help of modern medical equipment. Yes he was blind, but,,,he learned to support his family. He figured out how to work and earn without any special training or public financial assistance. He is remembered by many as a wonderful intelligent man. Today he may well have been aborted as a non viable "zygote" What a pity that would have been to the world.

                            Reply#9 - Tue May 24, 2011 10:27 PM EDT
                            warrior wheatman

                            That would have been before 1911CE. It is hard to believe the medical establishment was capable of bringing a pre-term baby into our midst the way it can now. Many pre-terms are viable. Glad you had your father that long.

                            Aren't we debating circumcision here?

                              #9.1 - Tue May 24, 2011 11:08 PM EDT
                              warrior wheatman

                              San Franciscans may have difficulty keeping their streets flat, but they are progressive. They may seem loud and anarchistic to you, simply to awaken the world to values to be entertained. When Orthodox Jews don't allow women to be photographed (Hillary Clinton erased from situation room), and when Muslims risk death when changing religion, and when women have to wear a hat or veil in church (but not men), and when all religions treat females with second-class rights: We have a major cultural obstacle for world peace and universal human rights and American style independence. Circumcision may not seem a big thing to you, but it is at the heart of our Constitution of human freedom. We fought a civil war over its wording.

                              • 1 vote
                              #9.2 - Tue May 24, 2011 11:33 PM EDT
                              Rick Cain4150

                              The original purpose of circumcision in the USA was for the same reasons, to prevent a young boy from masturbating.

                              • 1 vote
                              #9.3 - Mon Jun 13, 2011 2:06 PM EDT
                              Reply
                              Rick Cain4150

                              The whole HIV resistance thing of circumcision is bunk.   Wanna reduce your chances of getting HIV?  Wear a CONDOM.

                              The entire purpose of circumcision was an effort by protestant prudes to reduce masturbation in male children.  As time passed the reasons were forgotten and now it is being done mainly for aesthetics, out of fear that a child might "look different" in the shower after gym class.

                              • 1 vote
                              Reply#10 - Mon Jun 13, 2011 2:05 PM EDT
                              warrior wheatman

                              "Protestant prudes"? Can't masterbate without a foreskin? I don't know WHAT or FROM where you are, but you are not male, Catholic, nor adult.

                              • 1 vote
                              #10.1 - Sat Jun 18, 2011 6:55 AM EDT
                              Reply
                              el27

                              I can't believe how many ignorant comments I see on here. People just don't understand that the foreskin is not just an extra flap of skin, it is part of the penis and works in unison with the penis. Parents have no right to decide how much sensation and sensitivity they can chop off. The boy's penis belongs to him and his future sex partner. Parents are not the one's using their son's penis for sexual intercourse so they should leave it alone.

                              • 1 vote
                              Reply#11 - Mon Jun 20, 2011 2:22 PM EDT
                              warrior wheatman

                              Very well said. Thank you. Interesting how religion has muted the mind eh?

                                #11.1 - Thu Jun 23, 2011 12:06 AM EDT
                                Reply
                                Leave a Comment:
                                You're in Easy Mode. If you prefer, you can use XHTML Mode instead.
                                You're in XHTML Mode. If you prefer, you can use Easy Mode instead.
                                (XHTML tags allowed - a,b,blockquote,br,code,dd,dl,dt,del,em,h2,h3,h4,i,ins,li,ol,p,pre,q,strong,ul)
                                Newsvine Privacy Statement
                                As a new user, you may notice a few temporary content restrictions. Click here for more info.
                                FUN STUFF:
                                • Leaderboard |
                                • E-Mail Alerts |
                                • Top of the Vine |
                                • Newsvine Live |
                                • Newsvine Archives |
                                • The Greenhouse
                                COMPANY STUFF:
                                • Code of Honor |
                                • Company Info |
                                • Contact Us |
                                • Jobs |
                                • User Agreement |
                                • Privacy Policy |
                                • About our ads
                                LEGAL STUFF:
                                • © 2005-2012 Newsvine, Inc. |
                                • Newsvine® is a registered trademark of Newsvine, Inc. |
                                • Newsvine is a property of msnbc.com