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Senate showdown over limiting debit card fees

Wed Jun 8, 2011 3:02 AM EDT
business, politics, us, federal-reserve, card, fees, debit-card, debit-card-fees, us-debit-card
Alan Fram, Associated Press

FILE - In this Nov. 2, 2009 file photo, a customer swipes a MasterCard debit card through a machine while checking-out at a shop in Seattle. Consumers are wedged in the middle of a fight between bankers and merchants as the Senate plans a showdown vote Wednesday June 8, 2011 over whether to limit fees that stores pay financial institutions every time a debit card is swiped. (AP Photo/Elaine Thompson, file)

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WASHINGTON — Consumers are caught in the middle of a fight between financial institutions and merchants as the Senate approaches a showdown vote over whether to block the Federal Reserve from capping fees that stores pay banks every time a shopper swipes a debit card.

The vote, scheduled for Wednesday, is the climax of a long, expensive lobbying battle between two industries that lawmakers hate to cross because of their influence back home and their campaign contributions.

"Those are folks who have a lot of presence in all our states," said Sen. Mark Pryor, D-Ark., who added he was undecided. He said, "This is one of those where people have friends on both sides."

At stake is whether to slash the $16 billion the Fed says merchants pay banks and credit card companies for the 38 billion times consumers use debit cards annually. The Fed says the fees currently average about 44 cents per swipe, which under a proposal the central bank unveiled last year would be capped at 12 cents per transaction.

Last year's financial overhaul law ordered the Fed to issue a rule that will take effect on July 21. The Senate vote will be on an effort to delay the regulations for a year and order the Fed and three other agencies to study whether the proposal is fair — and rewrite it if at least two agencies decide it is not.

Each side was claiming to have consumers' interests at heart. Merchants said today's fees, typically 1 percent to 2 percent of the purchase, push their prices higher and make it tougher to hire new workers. Banks say the Fed proposal discounts overhead costs like preventing fraud and argue that slicing the fee would force them to find other sources of revenue such as raising their charges for checking accounts.

The fight over so-called interchange fees for debit cards crosses party lines. While No. 2 Senate Democratic leader Richard Durbin of Illinois is the chief supporter of the Fed's proposal, the main foes are Sens. Jon Tester, D-Mont., and Bob Corker, R-Tenn.

The provision requiring the Fed to set fair debit card fees was included in last year's financial overhaul law by a 64-33 Senate vote and was written by Durbin. There was no separate House vote on the issue. President Barack Obama signed the overall law after Congress passed it over solid Republican opposition.

Durbin, using Senate procedures, is forcing Tester and Corker to gather support from 60 of the 100 senators to win. Though aides and lobbyists on both sides say Tester could be close to prevailing, they concede it will be tough to defeat the veteran Durbin, who wields considerable influence as a party leader.

Even so, Durbin faced some challenges. Six senators — including five Democrats — who voted for his amendment last year are no longer in the Senate. And at least two senators who supported him a year ago — Kay Hagan, D-N.C., and Mike Crapo, R-Idaho — are backing Tester's effort to delay the Fed rules.

As debate began Tuesday, Durbin recalled the $700 billion bailout passed in late 2008 as the financial industry teetered on the brink of catastrophe — followed by the widely unpopular bonuses that many financial firms awarded executives. He said the largest banks were "fighting viciously" to block the Fed rule because they have the most to lose.

"Are we going to be shaken down a second time?" he asked. "That's what this debate is all about."

Tester, a first-term senator facing re-election next year in a GOP-leaning state, said he was not championing big banks.

"No one needs to shed a tear for them," he said on the Senate floor.

Instead, he said he was on the side of small banks and credit unions that dot his rural state, which he said could vanish if their revenues collapse.

"Fewer banking options in rural America is a death knell for rural America," Tester said. "But that is where we are headed."

"To call this a Wall Street bailout is beyond demagoguery," Corker told reporters.

Financial institutions and merchants spend millions of dollars a year lobbying on Capitol Hill, and their attempts to sway the vote are far from over.

A radio ad in Montana, sponsored by the National Retail Federation and the Montana Retail Association, took direct aim at Tester.

"He's helping the big banks delay debit card swipe fee reform," the announcer says. "Sen. Tester says he's for the consumer, but Tester lets the big banks swipe our money."

Ads from the other side make similar claims. In one radio commercial that ran recently in Idaho, an announcer says of the Fed proposal, "This government regulation will hurt our local community banks and credit unions and could force you to pick up the tab for giant retailers," a reference to the big-box retail behemoths that banks and credit unions say would be the biggest beneficiaries if the fees are reduced.

Underscoring the unlikely coalitions the battle was spawning, Tester's proposal was being supported by the conservative Americans for Tax Reform on the ground that the Fed proposal would impose price controls. Supporting Durbin was the Armed Forces Marketing Council, whose members operate exchanges on military bases and which argued that the fees hurt military families.

© 2011 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.
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  • Public Discussion (34)
Vlad's dog

Screw the bansk just like they screw every American, fees are just a new form of corporate tax on the economy.

  • 11 votes
Reply#1 - Wed Jun 8, 2011 6:34 AM EDT
Mr. Roger Rabbit

That's right - screw the banks, the Waltons need more money.

  • 2 votes
#1.1 - Wed Jun 8, 2011 8:58 AM EDT
Kreepy-Krawler

Without putting a cap on these transactions, Banks can and will raise them to whatever they see fit to rob the people of their hard earned cash. Sometime we need to put a cap on thongs like this and next, we need to put a salary cap on government workers and government itself. Hourly salary for senators, congress, and the president as well.

Then if they try and screw the people, fire the SOBs. :)

  • 1 vote
#1.2 - Wed Jun 8, 2011 9:20 AM EDT
Rich-365548

Debit card fees are usually much lower than credit card fees, up to 50% less. If they really wanted to help retail businesses, it would be far more effective to go after credit card fees. But that won't happen since the big banks own congress.

  • 1 vote
#1.3 - Wed Jun 8, 2011 9:41 AM EDT
Davy-755715

I heard Tester on the news, providing some lame excuse or another for keeping the rates as they are. Since no GOPher likely could EVER bring himself to vote for ANYTHING that would limit business' take, the people better bend over, as usual; but if you ask 'em real nice, the GOPhers just might be nice enough to approve some vaseline for the rabble...

    #1.4 - Wed Jun 8, 2011 11:18 AM EDT
    Mr. Roger Rabbit

    Davy, Kreepy - it seems you're missing the point. The fight is between BoFA and Wall-Mart, over their profit lines. Has nothing to do with people. If you do not want to give the banks your swipe fees here is the tip - pay cash.

    • 2 votes
    #1.5 - Wed Jun 8, 2011 12:27 PM EDT
    Kreepy-Krawler

    Mr Roger Rabbit

    Davy, Kreepy - it seems you're missing the point. The fight is between BoFA and Wall-Mart, over their profit lines. Has nothing to do with people. If you do not want to give the banks your swipe fees here is the tip - pay cash.

    It has everything to do with the consumers. If Walmart pays the increases that BofA wants, then the prices go up for the consumers. If Walmart refuses to go along with the increase, then BofA will increase their fees. Either way, the consumers are once again going to get screwed over either by Walmart or BofA.

    I think it's you Mr Roger Rabbit that is missing the point here. ;)

    • 5 votes
    #1.6 - Wed Jun 8, 2011 2:41 PM EDT
    Mr. Roger Rabbit

    If Walmart pays the increases that BofA wants, then the prices go up for the consumers.

    BoFA wants to keep current rates, not increase. If Wallmart gets its price cap - the BoFA will raise its fees to make up for lost profits. The net result - we will pay more no matter what. But there is no increase being discussed here - only a cut to current fees, which appear to be about a half that of the comparable credit-card fees.

    • 1 vote
    #1.7 - Wed Jun 8, 2011 3:16 PM EDT
    my-pockets-r-mt

    Rich-365548 Agreed.

    Kreepy-Krawler Merchants are at the mercy of merchant services if they want to take credit cards and many people that is all they use in relation to our business anyway (love it when they pay cash but would be shooting ourselves in the foot if we demanded cash instead of credit card). We have watched our fees increase for the past 2 years and if they pass this you can bet the merchant services will hit merchants somehow and yes it will be passed onto the customer. We held off as long as we could to keep prices the same but merchants are seeing cost of goods increasing just as consumers and finally a merchant has to cry "uncle" and raise prices. Many of us are not out to screw anyone. We employ people, we as business owners are employees ourselves not just owners and if all of us cannot make a living in the business why bother.

    • 1 vote
    #1.8 - Wed Jun 8, 2011 3:19 PM EDT
    Reply
    Wizeguy

    "No one needs to shed a tear for them," he said on the Senate floor......Instead, he said he was on the side of small banks and credit unions that dot his rural state, which he said could vanish if their revenues collapse.

    I think Tester is over reacting...Banks won't collapse they will fee you up somewhere else...My dog groomer stopped taking credit & debit cards about a year ago. She was losing too much money and didn't want to raise prices in this economy.

    If the Merchants get their break will they give it back to the consumer? That remains to be seen!

    • 5 votes
    Reply#2 - Wed Jun 8, 2011 6:59 AM EDT
    V. Bevis

    Good point, wiseguy. I live in a small town & it amazed me when I moved here how many take cash, or checks, but NOT C.C. If it keeps prices down, I'm all for it.

    • 2 votes
    #2.1 - Wed Jun 8, 2011 9:22 AM EDT
    Reply
    don-72

    Each side was claiming to have consumers' interests at heart. Merchants said today's fees, typically 1 percent to 2 percent of the purchase, push their prices higher and make it tougher to hire new workers. Banks say the Fed proposal discounts overhead costs like preventing fraud and argue that slicing the fee would force them to find other sources of revenue such as raising their charges for checking accounts.

    Can there being any question that the cost of every transaction is not passed on to the consumers? My experience is that it is. The question is how much should Banks get and is it fair to all of us?

    I don't question that there is a cost to process the transaction but how much more should the banks make? It looks to me that the banks are saying we want all we can get and if we can not get it one way we are going to find some other way to make it. Ok then what if we pay cash for every thing we buy will the stores than charge us less or not? And how will we know if they are charging us less?

    And then again how do we no that if we pay cash any one is or has hired more employes? Maybe some of the bigger company's will but I do not think that a small company will hire more people. Just because they may not need them.

    Then there is a question what is a fair profit for any company make? I think that is a Question that can be answered by us the people not buying from some company that we think is charging us to much.

    • 5 votes
    Reply#3 - Wed Jun 8, 2011 7:23 AM EDT
    Wizeguy

    Voted Up!!!

    Your right on target Don...this is millionaires fighting millionaires for a larger piece of the pie. Using us (the consumer) as the pawns in their sick little game. Soundbites like "it's good for the consumer" or "we care about the little guy" are all well and fine. But when you come right down to it they have the Gordon Gekko (greed is good) syndrome,,,

    • 4 votes
    #3.1 - Wed Jun 8, 2011 7:42 AM EDT
    Reply
    28az

    At gas stations in my home town the cost to use a debt card is 45 cent, remember when the bank started the debt card it was going to save them money for they wasn't going to have to have so many people working going through the checks. This is just another way for bank to make more money for they see how many people are using debt card now. Start dealing with a credit union or home town bank instead of banks our government allow to get two big for they give them money to run for office.

    • 5 votes
    Reply#4 - Wed Jun 8, 2011 7:55 AM EDT
    ohiogal-479871

    Start dealing with a credit union or home town bank instead of banks our government allow to get two big for they give them money to run for office.

    I agree.

    My credit union charges me 0 to run a purchase as a debit. My old bank charged me 25 cents to a 1$ for any purchase ran as debit. There isn't anything extra they are doing in this techno age that could possibly explain why it cost me .25 for a 49.99 purchase and .50 for a 50 buck purchase.

    • 3 votes
    #4.1 - Wed Jun 8, 2011 8:43 AM EDT
    zanilth

    The funny thing is, anywhere I've been (anywhere on the planet) the cost if you use your debit card is the same as if you use cash...

    Merchants pay a fee per swipe, but that is already factored into their prices. Whether the banks charged the merchants or not, the prices won't go down...

    • 4 votes
    #4.2 - Wed Jun 8, 2011 8:45 AM EDT
    jaker023

    well said, zanilth. the lone difference I have seen those are gas stations - they'll advertise a lower price for cash vs. credit/debit cards.

    I have also seen some places require a minimum purchase amount to use a credit/debit card (usually ~$10). the merchants don't mind paying the extra 45cents for those purchases as they are already included in the price, just as you said.

      #4.3 - Wed Jun 8, 2011 9:14 AM EDT
      V. Bevis

      zanith: You are correct when it comes to chain stores, i.e. grocery, home improvement, restaurants, etc. But! If you shop any small, independent merchants (and there ARE small businesses), many times they will give you a discount of the amt. they would LOSE if they ran the C.C. through, esp. if it is for a bigger item. We just ask & often get it esp. at the hardware store.

      My husband began & sold a profitable business back in the 80's & 90's & we took C.C.s then. At that time, we used to shop around for which bank gave the best deal to merchants. They weren't all the same. I'm not sure exactly what the fees were then, but I do know it was MORE than the 1%-2% they are talking about now. It was partly based on the amt. of $ run through their accts. each month. And Am. Ex. has ALWAYS charged more than MasterCard/Visa.

      • 1 vote
      #4.4 - Wed Jun 8, 2011 9:29 AM EDT
      V. Bevis

      zanith: You are correct when it comes to chain stores, i.e. grocery, home improvement, restaurants, etc. But! If you shop any small, independent merchants (and there ARE small businesses), many times they will give you a discount of the amt. they would LOSE if they ran the C.C. through, esp. if it is for a bigger item. We just ask & often get it esp. at the hardware store.

      My husband began & sold a profitable business back in the 80's & 90's & we took C.C.s then. At that time, we used to shop around for which bank gave the best deal to merchants. They weren't all the same. I'm not sure exactly what the fees were then, but I do know it was MORE than the 1%-2% they are talking about now. It was partly based on the amt. of $ run through their accts. each month. And Am. Ex. has ALWAYS charged more than MasterCard/Visa.

      • 1 vote
      #4.5 - Wed Jun 8, 2011 9:31 AM EDT
      my-pockets-r-mt

      but I do know it was MORE than the 1%-2% they are talking about now

      I was wondering the same thing because ours average is 3%, now they have so many levels and the percentage of a particular level depends on what type of cc it is (rewards, company, phone, etc). Then on top of that they keep creating fees on the bottom line they charge and of course they lock a merchant in so it will cost a good chunk of change merchant services.

      And Am. Ex. has ALWAYS charged more than MasterCard/Visa.

      We won't even take amex because the fees are considerably higher than that.

      • 2 votes
      #4.6 - Wed Jun 8, 2011 5:32 PM EDT
      zanilth

      Well, looks like good news for business owners, since they capped the fees.

      At least until the banks find another way to get the money.

      • 2 votes
      #4.7 - Thu Jun 9, 2011 8:17 AM EDT
      Mr. Roger Rabbit

      At least until the banks find another way to get the money.

      So the Waltons get more money and as consumers we are screwed.

      • 1 vote
      #4.8 - Thu Jun 9, 2011 8:26 AM EDT
      zanilth

      So the Waltons get more money and as consumers we are screwed.

      Not quite... What dictates how much money the banks AND the merchants get is how many consumers swipe their debit card at that retailer. Don't swipe your debit card at Wal-Mart, and you aren't giving the Waltons anything.

      This will help out the 99 small businesses MUCH MORE than wal-mart... It helps SMALL BUSINESSES instead of putting them at the mercy of the banks. YES, Wal Mart and other large establishments ALSO benefit- but there are a WHOLE LOT MORE individual small businesses than there is Wally world.... There's only one of those! (If I just lost you, it's because I am referring to individual business names, not business locations/establishments.)

      Oh, and if you don't see a slight price decrease? Complain to the merchant and quit shopping there.

      • 1 vote
      #4.9 - Thu Jun 9, 2011 12:10 PM EDT
      Mr. Roger Rabbit

      This will help out the 99 small businesses MUCH MORE than wal-mart...

      Naaah - the margins aren't there, not to mention the lobbying power to put something like this through our benevolent congress. It is for the Wallmarts, Target, Giant Food and other chains. If you want to help the small guys - just pay cash.

      • 2 votes
      #4.10 - Thu Jun 9, 2011 4:10 PM EDT
      Reply
      Nitesh-3583394Deleted
      AmusedinVa

      Banks say the Fed proposal discounts overhead costs like preventing fraud and argue that slicing the fee would force them to find other sources of revenue such as raising their charges for checking accounts.

      Funny how they don't mention the overhead costs like 6 figure salaries and bonuses for executives, lavish parties, jets and other expenses that they need to gouge consumers to support. This has nothing to do with small banks and credit unions but rather it deals with whether or not we'll continue to let the giant banks continue to abuse the US consumers and businesses.

      The entire argument being made by the banks about the debit card "swipe fees" is nothing more than an argument for more price gouging by them. The article doesn't include that in addition to the debit card fees the banks also get the "swipe fee" from every credit card transaction too. If they aren't making enough profit with the hundreds of billions of transactions processed annually and the interest they charge on credit cards then the debit card fees won't make any difference.

      At one time merchants were able to offer discounts if you paid with cash. Now they are bound by contract with MasterCard and Visa that in order to accept those credit cards or branded debit cards they can't offer cash discounts. The banks always find ways to maximize every penny they can squeeze from consumers and some common sense regulations and laws to limit this are long past due.

      At stake is whether to slash the $16 billion the Fed says merchants pay banks and credit card companies for the 38 billion times consumers use debit cards annually. The Fed says the fees currently average about 44 cents per swipe, which under a proposal the central bank unveiled last year would be capped at 12 cents per transaction.

      Now here's the funny thing about the entire argument the banks are making. If there's 38 billion debit card transactions a year at the 12 cent proposed fee cap that would be $4,560,000,000 per year in fees they would still collect. If they can't cover "fraud prevention" and other operating costs with that type of revenue then they don't need to be in business anyway.

      • 7 votes
      Reply#6 - Wed Jun 8, 2011 8:07 AM EDT
      zanilth

      My question is if we suddenly quit using debit cards, and those fees weren't charged because no transactions were made- obviously the merchants wouldn't have those fees to pay, but does anyone truly think the banks would even blink?

      • 1 vote
      #6.1 - Wed Jun 8, 2011 9:12 AM EDT
      Reply
      Better Careful

      My bank sold out to a larger bank in the last two months. No longer will interest be paid on any accounts. Free checking is gone. Fees for use of non-bank cards, or using their cards in other ATM's went up from $0.35 to $4.00 for each use. Staying with these new predators will cost me $80 a year, minimum.

      The CEO and top managers got raises and bonuses. On my nickel, as it turn out. If I don't move out of state or country to find work, I'm moving my business to a credit union. This is personal; they want what's mine and will simply take it if I let them. Do I expect to see competition between banks? Do I expect to see Bank A offering customers a better deal than Bank B, to win over customers? No, actually, I expect to see Banks A and B offering increasingly worse deals simultaneously and acting as a cabal. I expect to see my own government providing cover for these market-breaking practices. Free markets in American are dead, folks. Welcome to fascism.

      • 3 votes
      Reply#7 - Wed Jun 8, 2011 8:36 AM EDT
      Y Lee Coyote

      you are correct in moving to a credit union. They might not be perfect, but they are a damned sight better that than the "commercial banks"

      • 2 votes
      #7.1 - Wed Jun 8, 2011 9:04 AM EDT
      Reply
      Confer

      Well it appears we all understand this subject. Now let us see what those in congress end up with on a this hot political football.

      • 4 votes
      Reply#8 - Wed Jun 8, 2011 8:52 AM EDT
      mgbirish

      The CEO and top managers got raises and bonuses

      The bottom line! They want the bonuses not capped, but they will find some other way to gouge us for them!

      • 5 votes
      Reply#9 - Wed Jun 8, 2011 8:55 AM EDT
      Hardcoffeeat6am

      I think it may be time to put our money back under the mattress again,but I just open account at  Ally Bank on line, It's all free NO FEES!

      • 2 votes
      Reply#10 - Wed Jun 8, 2011 9:07 AM EDT
      NC Slim

      The definition of usury is “the act or practice of loaning money at an exorbitant rate of interest.” In the vernacular of the street--it is known as the “vigorish” or “vig” and is the percentage taken by a gangster.

      Americans would make out better dealing with the neighborhood thug than the GOP-backed Dons of Wall Street.

      Do not believe the “Party of No New Taxes.” At your local bank there are new overdraft fees(tax); if you take money from your own savings account too many times, a fee(tax); higher late credit card charges(tax); foreign transaction fees(tax). And make no mistake--these are TAXES for using your own MONEY. A tax is an assessment, a tariff. The Republican money-changers call it the cost of doing business. It’s really mobster speak. The Repubs are taxing us into the poor house and blaming it on everyone else.

      • 1 vote
      Reply#11 - Wed Jun 8, 2011 11:35 AM EDT
      michaelmc554

      Why do the Banks need to make more money on these (FEE'S)lol ? I cannot believe we would allow them to get bigger and charge the poorest of Americans more money,Have we not Learned anything?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

      • 1 vote
      Reply#12 - Wed Jun 8, 2011 12:49 PM EDT
      Gnosis13

      Pfft, like banks or business need an excuse to increase their fees.

      • 2 votes
      Reply#13 - Wed Jun 8, 2011 4:01 PM EDT
      LatonyaMccarthyDeleted
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