Newsvine
  • Welcome
  • Help
  • Report Bug
  • Conversation Tracker
  • Your Column
  • Replies
  • Friends
Type Comments Since You Last CheckedArticle Source Last Checked Stop Tracking All Clear Tracking All
Advertise | AdChoices
Log In | Register
Close the Login Panel
Existing users log in below. New users please register for a free account.

New Users:

Existing Users:

E-Mail:
Password:
Forgot Password?
Please enter the e-mail address or domain name you registered with:
E-Mail/Domain:
Back to Login
Log Out
  • Top News
  • Local News
  • World
  • U.S.
  • Sports
  • Politics
  • Tech
  • Entertainment
  • Science
  • Business
  • Health
  • Odd News
  • More
    • Arts
    • Education
    • Environment
    • Fashion
    • History
    • Home & Garden
    • Not News
    • Religion
    • Travel
What is Newsvine?

Updated continuously by citizens like you, Newsvine is an instant reflection of what the world is talking about at any given moment.

Get a Free Account
Help
Fun Stuff
  • Your Clippings
  • Leaderboard
  • E-Mail Alerts
  • Top of the Vine
  • Newsvine Live
  • Newsvine Archives
  • The Greenhouse
  • Recommended Articles
  • Wall of Vineness
Put a Seed Newsvine link on your own site

Economists see growing risk of global recession

Fri Aug 12, 2011 5:04 PM EDT
business, politics, us, economy
Christopher S. Rugaber, AP Economics Writer
< PreviousNext >
showing 1 of 4 photos
<p>In this Aug. 9, 2011 photo, Gary Hartwig of Gretna, Neb., fuels his car at a Costco gas station in Omaha, Neb. Consumers spent more on autos, furniture and gasoline in July, pushing up retail sales by the largest amount in four months. The gain could signal that Americans are a little more confident and help dispell fears that the country is in danger of toppling into another recession. (AP Photo/Nati Harnik)</p>

In this Aug. 9, 2011 photo, Gary Hartwig of Gretna, Neb., fuels his car at a Costco gas station in Omaha, Neb. Consumers spent more on autos, furniture and gasoline in July, pushing up retail sales by the largest amount in four months. The gain could signal that Americans are a little more confident and help dispell fears that the country is in danger of toppling into another recession. (AP Photo/Nati Harnik)

Advertise | AdChoices

WASHINGTON — Discouraging economic data from around the globe have heightened fears that another recession is on the way.

Fresh evidence emerged Thursday that U.S. home sales and manufacturing are weakening. Signs also surfaced that European banks are increasingly burdened by the region's debt crisis and sputtering economy.

The rising anxiety ignited a huge sell-off in stocks that led many investors to seek the safety of U.S. Treasurys.

Economists say the economic weakness and the stock markets' wild swings have begun to feed on themselves. Persistent drops in stock prices erode consumer and business confidence. Individuals and companies typically then spend and invest less. And when they do, stock prices tend to fall further.

"A negative feedback loop ... now appears to be in the making" in both the United States and Europe, Joachim Fels and Manoj Pradhan, economists at Morgan Stanley, said in a report Thursday. Both economies are "dangerously close to a recession. ... It won't take much in the form of additional shocks to tip the balance."

The risk of a recession is now about one in three, according to Morgan Stanley and Bank of America Merrill Lynch.

Among the worrisome economic signs:

— A survey by the Federal Reserve Bank of Philadelphia shows that manufacturing in the mid-Atlantic region contracted in August by the most in more than two years. The steep drop, on top of a smaller decline in a New York Fed survey this week, means U.S. manufacturing probably contracted in August, economists said.

It would be the first decline since July 2009 — a worrisome sign because manufacturing has been a key source of U.S. growth in the two years since economists say the Great Recession ended.

— U.S. home sales fell in July for the third time in four months, the National Association of Realtors said. Sales dropped 3.5 percent to a seasonally adjusted annual rate of 4.67 million homes. That's far below the 6 million homes that economists say must be sold to sustain a healthy housing market.

Sales are lagging behind last year's pace — the weakest since 1997. "There seems to be a correlation between the stock market and home prices," said Andrew Davidson, a New York-based mortgage industry consultant.

— In Asia, Japan's exports fell for a fifth straight month. The world's No. 3 economy has fallen into a recession since its earthquake and tsunami in March. Its weakness is contributing to the global slowdown.

— Consumer prices rose 0.5 percent in July, mostly due to more expensive gas and food. The "core" price index, which excludes volatile food and energy prices, rose 0.2 percent. The higher prices add to the burdens for Americans already squeezed by stagnant pay, though economists don't expect prices to rise much further. And gasoline has fallen this month.

Investors are also growing more anxious about Europe's sputtering economy and its leaders' ability to resolve the debt crisis. European bank stocks accelerated their fall Thursday.

European banks are being forced to pay more for the short-term loans they need to finance day-to-day operations. Some with heavy exposure to the debts of Greece and other weak countries are relying on loans from the European Central Bank because other private banks are reluctant to do business with them.

The ECB said Thursday that one bank had borrowed $500 million a day for seven days through the ECB's dollar lending program. It was the first time since February that a bank had used the program. The bank wasn't identified.

After all the volatility of the past month, the Dow Jones industrial average has lost more than 14 percent since July 21. That includes Thursday's drop of more than 419 points.

Some sectors of the U.S. economy still show strength. Retail sales are up. Gas prices have fallen. And job growth has been consistent, though below what's needed to reduce the unemployment rate.

Yet a consumer survey taken this month showed confidence in the economy fell to the lowest level in 31 years.

Morgan Stanley's calculation of a one-in-three risk of a new recession hinges, in part, on its expectation that Congress will let a Social Security tax cut, a business tax credit and extended unemployment benefits expire at year's end. It calculates that the expiration of those measures would reduce U.S. growth by 0.5 to 1 percentage point in 2012.

Jitters over the economy and financial markets may also reduce auto sales. That would be a blow to an industry that reported strong profits and healthy hiring earlier this year. J.D. Power and Associates has cut its 2011 sales forecast last week by 2 percent and its 2012 forecast by 3 percent.

On Tuesday, France's president, Nicolas Sarkozy, and German Chancellor Angela Merkel held an emergency meeting to discuss the continent's sluggish economy and debt crisis. Disappointment in the outcome of the meeting has contributed to the sell-off in European bank shares.

"All we got was more taxes and more bureaucracy and more austerity," said Neil MacKinnon, an economist at VTB Capital in London.

The German economy, Europe's biggest, slowed to a growth rate of 0.1 percent in the April-June quarter, after expanding at a 1.3 percent rate in the first quarter of this year. France's growth fell to zero in the April-June period after a 0.9 percent quarterly rate in the first quarter.

Still, Neil Dutta, an economist at Bank of America Merrill Lynch, said that most of the negative indicators, including the Philadelphia Fed index, reflect sentiment, rather than actual economic activity. Measures of the actual economy, like the number of people seeking unemployment benefits, haven't declined nearly as much.

The number applying for benefits rose 9,000 last week to a seasonally adjusted 408,000. The four-week average, a more reliable gauge of the job market, dropped for a seventh straight week to 402,500, the lowest level since April. The report suggests that the economy is creating jobs but not nearly enough to lower the high unemployment rate.

"We are not ready to say this is the death knell for the U.S. economy," Dutta said. Still, recession risks are rising, he added.

__

AP Auto Writer Tom Krisher in Detroit and AP Writer Pan Pylas in London contributed to this report.

© 2011 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.
  • Enjoy this article? Help vote it up the 'Vine.

Back To Top | Front Page

Published to:

  • Christopher S. Rugaber's Column, All of Newsvine
  • Groups: none
  • Regions: United States , Washington DC
  • Public Discussion (45)
mstanley2265

I'm trying my darnest to help the Economy, I ♥ shopping. :)

    Reply#1 - Fri Aug 12, 2011 6:23 PM EDT
    mountainmike-1199289

    Goldman Sachs and other Wall Street giant corporations have a legion of speculators at the stock exchange with super fast lap top computers speculating on oil and food. That drives up the cost for consumers and causes nation wide recession. Since taxpayers bailed out Wall Street and that was somehow OK (despite the fact that we were the victims of their white collar greed crime) maybe its time that Wall Street bail out taxpayers. BAN SPECULATION ON OIL AND FOOD.

    That would be an overnight bail out of Main Street involving NO taxpayer money. The price of gas would be cut in half overnight.

    How about WALL STREET doing its "damest" to help the economy instead of trying to find new ways to $crew America?

    • 4 votes
    #1.1 - Fri Aug 12, 2011 9:36 PM EDT
    Pat P11111

    I know how to help the economy. I looked up the lowest unemployment in my lifetime and it was 2.3%

    I was looking at how that happened and discovered the top tax rate was 92%.

    So we can solve unemployment and solve the deficit at the same time. Pretty cool huh?

    http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxfacts/displayafact.cfm?Docid=213

    http://www.bls.gov/cps/prev_yrs.htm

    The year was 1953 and it had both the lowest unemployment and the highest tax rate in 60 years.

    • 3 votes
    #1.2 - Fri Aug 12, 2011 10:23 PM EDT
    aqua surf-1123675

    IF that is true, one has to consider that it was the time of the post war boom.

      #1.3 - Sat Aug 13, 2011 12:15 AM EDT
      Pat P11111

      The war ended in 44 that's 9 years. There wasn't really a boom to speak of, actually GDP data shows a pretty straight upward trend from the WWII until now. Certainly there were ups and downs but they don't support the idea that low taxes for the rich creates job, if anything it's the other way.

      From 1950 to 1963 during top tax rate of 92% or 91% the average unemployment was 4.9%

      From 1971 to 1980 at a 70% rate the average unemployment was 6.45%

      From 2003 to 2010 with current rate of 35% the average unemployment was 6.3%

      I only looked at periods when the tax rates stayed steady for a long period. That's what the data says, sorry it doesn't agree with the current political talking points, it's history.

      It surprised me when I saw it. I think it would surprise a lot of people.

      As most people know as the top tax rates went down the rich of course got richer. Some of the middle class got richer but most just held on or lost ground. The poor got poorer.

      • 2 votes
      #1.4 - Sat Aug 13, 2011 2:06 AM EDT
      mountainmike-1199289

      You are talking about Dwight D Eisenhower's two terms in office. Republicans don't like to remember him because he was the anti trickle down dogma GOP president. There was a massive war/national debt to pay down, which he did in his two terms in office. The nation converted from a full employment war time economy producing tangible goods with no outsourcing to a full employment peace time economy producing tangible goods with no outsourcing. He had no problem taxing the rich and corporations. He was also the first to warn us about the military industrial complex and was against continued massive military spending.

      If Republicans need a fiscal conservative icon, it was Eisenhower, not Reagan. Reagan was the first post WWII president to substantially increase the national debt.

      Reagan and the two Bushes account for $9.2 trillion of the national debt, over $11 trillion with interest added in.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P1bZ-TiX8rA

      Tax cuts to the rich have ALWAYS been put on the national debt tab and ALWAYS accompanied by excessive military spending. Since the end of the arms race, through five presidential terms in office, America has accounted for more military spending than all other countries combined. George W Bush re-established tax cuts for the rich while starting two multi trillion dollar quagmire wars in the Mideast. That's not fiscal conservatism, that fiscal insanity.

      It seems Republicans can tell down from up. We have a trickle UP economy with the rich getting richer, the super rich getting super richer and multi billionaire, multi national corporations getting obscenely rich.

      • 2 votes
      #1.5 - Sat Aug 13, 2011 2:42 AM EDT
      Reply
      EJCanavan

      I find it insulting that these "experts" think because of a .02 rise in spending that the recession may not be getting worse. These dumba$$e$ do realize it's back to school time right ? The lists from school spending cuts has nearly doubled and we have no choice but to look at back to school as an investment ! We are taking on the burden of buying every little thing the school tells us we need to make our kids successful right down to the tissue they blow their nose with. If it happens more than one month in a row I might believe them a little more, but this isn't an indication of squat.

      • 3 votes
      Reply#2 - Fri Aug 12, 2011 6:49 PM EDT
      mstanley2265

      and don't forget the 'school trip' money either...

      • 2 votes
      #2.1 - Fri Aug 12, 2011 7:08 PM EDT
      ebookout

      Agree EJ , they need to get into the real world. I hear of companies folding everyday so it's going to be hard to tell me it getting better. Someone drinking to much cool-aid or trying to convince someone this President has a clue on what's going on.

      • 2 votes
      #2.2 - Fri Aug 12, 2011 7:53 PM EDT
      FlyingEnergy

      And what are you going to do on your own to change that? The tea-party seems to be all about being pissed of at big government, but I don't see any of them stepping up with a real solution. Thye just complain and do nothing. I actually own a buisness, we do well. Why? Because I understand economics, supply and demand is the problem in America and getting rid of government jobs is not the solution. In order to continue showing a profit we went from local serivices to national. Because the demand for our service was diminished.

      • 3 votes
      #2.3 - Fri Aug 12, 2011 9:08 PM EDT
      tbart

      Any sign of rebound must be very frustrating for the Baggerz among us.

      • 2 votes
      #2.4 - Fri Aug 12, 2011 9:15 PM EDT
      mountainmike-1199289

      In the meantime, multi billionaire corporations are sitting on almost 2 trillion dollars in profits not wanting to invest in America or American jobs. If consumers don't have jobs, they don't consume. Its time that we blast these corporations off of the dead butts to quit committing economic treason against America.

      • 4 votes
      #2.5 - Fri Aug 12, 2011 9:40 PM EDT
      jesse285

      Show you are right, we are not slaves and working us in the ground is not the answer if God was to to that to us where would we be, we will always need God and Government, without rules thing will not be fair, just look at other country who slave other peoples.

        #2.6 - Sun Aug 14, 2011 7:33 AM EDT
        Reply
        ppk-1970460

        screweeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

          Reply#3 - Fri Aug 12, 2011 7:23 PM EDT
          Marcel Villa

          The comment says it all. The county "might" (emphasis on might) not be in brink of recession after all.

            Reply#4 - Fri Aug 12, 2011 7:24 PM EDT
            Rainbow Warrior

            The richest 10 percent of Americans own 80 percent of stocks. And the richest 20 percent drive about 40 percent of consumer spending, analysts say.

            There's that consolidation of wealth and power by the few at the expense of the many thing again... and it's been happening right under our noses for the past 40 years.

            That's the problem folks! There aren't enough jobs and opportunities to go around because the economic elite hoard it all, and don't pay their fair share of taxes. How else could this have happened?

            Romney is right, corporation are people. Too bad it's only a small fraction of the American population.

            • 4 votes
            Reply#5 - Fri Aug 12, 2011 7:59 PM EDT
            peterclarke

            It is these same so called economic, economist expert theorists who could not predict the downfall and even with economic hindsight I doubt if they can predict if and when unemployment will rise and fall or when world stock market shall again fall and then rebound even after they have done all the surveys after or before the so called facts.

            The stock market and the views and predictions of economic theorists are nothing more than a roulette game with the same odds at best.

            • 3 votes
            Reply#6 - Fri Aug 12, 2011 8:00 PM EDT
            FlyingEnergy

            It is these same so called economic, economist expert theorists who could not predict the downfall

            Elizabeth Warren predicted it and made a documentary along with D. Sen. Henry Waxman describing what could happen. This Doc is called maxed out and it is earily correct on what will happen one year after it's production.

            • 2 votes
            #6.1 - Fri Aug 12, 2011 8:56 PM EDT
            mountainmike-1199289

            How Our Largest Corporations Made $170 Billion During Great Recession And Paid No Taxes
            http://www.forbes.com/sites/rickungar/2011/06/01/how-our-largest-corporations-made-170-billion-during-great-recession-and-paid-no-taxes/

            Today, and not a moment too soon, the non-profit Citizens For Tax Justice (CTJ) has put out their findings revealing that twelve of the nations largest Fortune 500 companies, while making $170 billion in profits during the period of The Great Recession, paid an effective tax rate of negative 1.5%.

            Yes, you read that correctly.

            Not only have these twelve companies paid zero in taxes for the years 2008-2010, they actually received tax subsidies that added $62.4 billion to their bottom lines.

            The companies were chosen by the CTJ to represent a range of industries, including manufacturing, energy, services, transportation and high tech and include – in alphabetical order – American Electric Power, Boeing, Dupont, Exxon Mobil, FedEx, General Electric, Honeywell International, IBM, United Technologies, Verizon Communications, Wells Fargo and Yahoo.

            Here are the bullet points presented by the report:

            • From 2008 through 2010, these 12 companies reported $171 billion in pretax U.S. profits. But as a group, their federal income taxes were negative: –$2.5 billion.
            • All but two of the dozen companies enjoyed at least one no-tax year over the 2008-10 period, despite reporting substantial pretax U.S. profits in those no-tax years.
            • Eight of the twelve companies reported net tax benefits over the full three-year period.

            These are the same corporations that are sitting on almost 2 trillion dollars in profits and not investing in America and American jobs.

            A boom in corporate profits, a bust in jobs, wages

            'I've never seen labor markets this weak in 35 years of research'

            http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/43860044/ns/business-stocks_and_economy/

            • 4 votes
            #6.2 - Fri Aug 12, 2011 9:44 PM EDT
            tbart

            The stock market and the views and predictions of economic theorists are nothing more than a roulette game...

            Oh, I don't know about that. Most economist evaluated the 2009 mess by saying that the country would emerge from recession in late 2010 and would then experience a painfully slow recovery. Sounds like a pretty accurate analysis to me....

              #6.3 - Thu Aug 18, 2011 6:15 PM EDT
              Reply
              black spider

              Dream on. America is broke. Deal with the facts.

              There will be NO PROSPERITY as we used to know it.

              It's done, over, slam the coffin, secure the nails and lower the nation of America into the abyss.

              Richard Nixon was the last president to balance the Federal budget. He was sitting on a HUGE $358 billion national debt, slightly manageable.

              Clinton was offered the largest tax increase in history, and what did he do? He gutted the military and intel resources, raised social bureaucratic programs, and without a peace dividend and dot com boom, would have been about as good looking as Bush or Obama.

              Bush built the coffin, Obama set the nails. If Obama gets a second term , the nails will be permanently sealed and you can forget about America's century: by then it will obviously be over.

              • 1 vote
              Reply#7 - Fri Aug 12, 2011 9:32 PM EDT
              mountainmike-1199289

              If Obama gets a second term , the nails will be permanently sealed and you can forget about America's century: by then it will obviously be over.

              There's Obama and there is the Republican dog and pony show range of candidates. What's your alternative to Obama, a dog or a pony?

              • 1 vote
              #7.1 - Sat Aug 13, 2011 2:47 AM EDT
              tbart

              Spider - About as optimistic a forecast as i could expect form a rightie. Fear and doom is what you guys are all about and that's why you need to be kept on the sidelines. You do not know what you are talking about.

                #7.2 - Thu Aug 18, 2011 6:17 PM EDT
                Reply
                John-614398

                A friend of mine once said "when I look around and see that I am the smartest person in the room, it scares the hell out of me"

                Well I have to tell you that I'm getting that feeling. Don't any of you get what the problem is? Well I'm going to tell you.

                Remember those big greedy corporations’ and stingy small businessmen that Obama talks about and makes no secret that they are a target for punishment and that he wants to spread around their wealth? The people in charge of these businesses have listened to the President and the Democrats in congress and they took that message and have hunkered down to make sure they have the cash on hand to weather the storm.

                Remember the wealthy folks in this country that are the horrible greedy disgusting people? Same problem. They are conserving their cash and not spending to buy a new Lexus or Corvet. They are waiting out the storm to see what is going to happen next.

                Now the good poor folks are already spending all they have to spend and so they can't pull the economy up to full speed by themselves.

                We need the businesses to feel safe enough to take on more employees and they don't feel safe with Barack Obama in the White House. It's just that simple.

                Barack Obama, Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi have put a chill on this market and economy that can only be thawed out by flushing the Washington and sending these goofy politicians back home.

                In short, what we have is a deficit problem. It's a DEFICIT OF TRUST IN WASHINGTON AND THE POLITICIANS INFESTING IT.

                And folks that's the story and the whole story. You may not have known before but you know now. And even if you don't like corporations, business owners and rich people you should ask yourself two questions.

                When was the last time you got a job from a poor person?

                When was the last time a poor person paid enough taxes to support all of the welfare programs that you liberals dream of benefiting from?

                • 1 vote
                Reply#8 - Fri Aug 12, 2011 9:44 PM EDT
                mountainmike-1199289

                Trickle down is a blatant lie. That is a Republican talking point, not something a credible economist would ever support. We have a trickle UP economy. The rich are getting richer, the super rich are getting super richer, and the multi billionaire, multi national corporations are getting obscenely richer.

                Here is the long term track record for voodoo, trickle down Reaganomics:

                http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P1bZ-TiX8rA

                Reagan and the two Bushes account for $9.2 trillion of the national debt, over $11 trillion with interest added in. That's about 78 percent of the entire national debt. How did they do that? Tax cuts to the rich and tax loopholes/subsidies for corporations, which have always been put on the national debt tab. Then you have over the top excessive military spending. How excessive? Since the end of the arms race and the Soviet Union, through 5 presidential terms in office America has accounted for more of the world's military spending than all other countries combined.

                Both parties have contributed to the national debt. I am just saying there is absolute no Republican self righteous holier than thou high ground to preach down to the rest of us about spending. George W Bush nearly doubled the national debt, and John Boehner, Mitch McConnell and Eric Cantor were there to vote for all of that spending and raise the debt ceiling 7 times with no issues expressed.

                • 1 vote
                Reply#9 - Fri Aug 12, 2011 9:59 PM EDT
                John-614398

                So when a wealthy person takes his wife to dinner and spends $185, where does the money go and who collects a paycheck from it?

                • 2 votes
                #9.1 - Fri Aug 12, 2011 10:01 PM EDT
                mstanley2265

                $185, that's a drop, when the same guy just laid off 40 workers at his business? hmmmm doesn't work.

                  #9.2 - Fri Aug 12, 2011 10:05 PM EDT
                  John-614398

                  You still didn't answer the question?

                  But if the guy didn't lay off 40 then the other 100 would loose their jobs when the business crashes. Corporations are not like government where they can print money or borrow it with no hope of repayment. Companies must always live within their means.

                  • 2 votes
                  #9.3 - Fri Aug 12, 2011 10:09 PM EDT
                  mountainmike-1199289

                  Rich Americans Save Tax Cuts Instead of Spending, Moody's Says

                  http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-09-13/rich-americans-save-money-from-tax-cuts-instead-of-spending-moody-s-says.html

                  This research study proves there is little or no trickle down. My next question would be WHERE do they save their money. The court case against the Swiss bank UBS is just one single favorite offshore bank for tax evasion bank accounts. Over 4,000 rich Americans were discovered with accounts there.

                  Why give the rich tax cuts when they are already giving themselves an illegal tax cut?

                  How Our Largest Corporations Made $170 Billion During Great Recession And Paid No Taxes
                  http://www.forbes.com/sites/rickungar/2011/06/01/how-our-largest-corporations-made-170-billion-during-great-recession-and-paid-no-taxes/

                  These are the one and the same multi billionaire, multi national corporations that are sitting on 1.9 trillion looking to invest in other countries instead of generating American jobs.

                  A boom in corporate profits, a bust in jobs, wages

                  'I've never seen labor markets this weak in 35 years of research'

                  http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/43860044/ns/business-stocks_and_economy/

                  Aughts were a lost decade for U.S. economy, workers

                  For most of the past 70 years, the U.S. economy has grown at a steady clip, generating perpetually higher incomes and wealth for American households. But since 2000, the story is starkly different.

                  The past decade was the worst for the U.S. economy in modern times, a sharp reversal from a long period of prosperity that is leading economists and policymakers to fundamentally rethink the underpinnings of the nation's growth.

                  It was, according to a wide range of data, a lost decade for American workers. The decade began in a moment of triumphalism -- there was a current of thought among economists in 1999 that recessions were a thing of the past. By the end, there were two, bookends to a debt-driven expansion that was neither robust nor sustainable.

                  There has been zero net job creation since December 1999. No previous decade going back to the 1940s had job growth of less than 20 percent. Economic output rose at its slowest rate of any decade since the 1930s as well.

                  Middle-income households made less in 2008, when adjusted for inflation, than they did in 1999 -- and the number is sure to have declined further during a difficult 2009. The Aughts were the first decade of falling median incomes since figures were first compiled in the 1960s.

                  And the net worth of American households -- the value of their houses, retirement funds and other assets minus debts -- has also declined when adjusted for inflation, compared with sharp gains in every previous decade since data were initially collected in the 1950s.

                  Since we are talking about the 1999 to 2009 decade, this is the George W Bush economic legacy for America.

                  WHERE WAS THE TRICKLE DOWN??? This is the same period of the time when the rich were getting richer, the super rich super richer, the top 400 richest Americans came to own more financial wealth than the bottom 50 percent of all Americans.

                  • 1 vote
                  #9.4 - Sat Aug 13, 2011 3:00 AM EDT
                  tbart

                  John - like most righties, you have it wrong by about 180 degrees. The idea that nurturing the riches of the top 5% will result in prosperity for the middle just never works. That's called oligarchy and lots of civilizations and cultures have tried it.

                  What does work is nurturing the well-being of a strong middle class which creates a society where the top 5% do very well, thank you. The country as a whole moves forward and we have a productive economy. We have done that before, and it worked. Time we tried it again.

                  We have been concentrating the wealth for the past thirty years and have created one ugly mess. Why would we keep doing something that is obviously not working?

                    #9.5 - Thu Aug 18, 2011 6:23 PM EDT
                    Reply
                    Roger-287Deleted
                    aqua surf-1123675

                    I didn't know the recession/depression ever ended! Here's the latest grocery store reality check-As of today, a bottle of pancake syrup is, fasten your seat belts-$5.19!!!!!! A bag of frozen veggies, that 6 months ago was $1.00 is now $1.99. Don't tell me we're in a recovery because it's a f*cking lie! How many people had to starve in America today because of Obama and the Left? Who do you liberal spin doctors think you're still fooling?

                    • 3 votes
                    Reply#11 - Sat Aug 13, 2011 12:10 AM EDT
                    FlyingEnergy

                    How did Obama affect your food prices? I would really love to see your logic on that. And I would also like to hear why exactly you think the Recession and lack of recovery is his fault. That would really be neat if you could desribe what policies he enacted that caused what you are describing. And how the Party that has tried to pass small buisness bills, which by the way is the democrats, are being blocked by the party that claims it's for small buisness, Republicans.

                    • 2 votes
                    #11.1 - Sat Aug 13, 2011 12:16 AM EDT
                    sportysue

                    Why is Pres. Obama's spending worse than Pres. Bush's? The debt ceiling was raised 18 times during Pres. Regan's admin and 7 times during Pres. Bush but Obama asks for the debt ceiling to be raised once and suddenly he is to blame for everything. I know math and I remember the debt clock had to be replaced under Pres. Bush cause the clock ran out of digits to accomodate the trillions of dollars we owed then and Republicans could care less then when they passed every single spending bill their president proposed. Cha Ching! Charge it!

                    Pres. Obama inherited the "Money pit"and like in the movie, money had to be spent to fix the home, lots of money and in the end it was all worth it. Is America worth it?

                    • 2 votes
                    #11.2 - Sat Aug 13, 2011 1:08 AM EDT
                    mountainmike-1199289

                    The truth is the recession didn't end. What recovery have we had? Wall Street white collar criminals have recovered and are back to $crewing America again. Business had its best quarter in our history in the third quarter of 2010 with record breaking profits, led by Wall Street. They generally gave CEO's and executives pay raises and higher bonuses, kept outsourcing jobs and sat on the rest of the profits. WHERE WAS THE TRICKLE DOWN?

                    John Boehner, Mitch McConnell and Eric Cantor were there to vote for all of that Bush spending binge that nearly doubled the national debt and voted 7 times to raise the debt ceiling with no issues expressed. Back then, Dick Cheney (not an economist) said deficits don't count. Now suddenly they do and Republicans want to blame the entire national debt on Obama.

                    Reagan and the two Bushes alone account for $9.2 trillion of the national debt, over $11 trillion with interest added in. That's about 78 percent of the entire national debt. Both parties have contributed to the national debt. I am just saying that Republicans have no self righteous holier than though high ground to preach down to the rest of us about spending.

                    How do spending fanatics during the Bush years reinvent themselves into spending cut experts upon the arrival of Obama in the White House?

                    • 3 votes
                    #11.3 - Sat Aug 13, 2011 3:09 AM EDT
                    FlyingEnergy

                    So I gave aqua surf a 4 days to respond to my comment and low and behold no response. Guess I am right, they don't really know what their talking about.

                    • 1 vote
                    #11.4 - Mon Aug 15, 2011 7:58 PM EDT
                    mstanley2265

                    might have got suspended again..

                    • 1 vote
                    #11.5 - Mon Aug 15, 2011 8:22 PM EDT
                    Reply
                    The Grim Creeper

                    If it keeps up, the economy might rebound after growing at an annual rate of just 0.8 percent in the first half of 2011.

                    B.S. The only way the economy recovers is when Barack Obama is unemployed.

                    • 3 votes
                    Reply#12 - Sat Aug 13, 2011 2:35 AM EDT
                    FlyingEnergy

                    The only way the economy recovers is when Barack Obama is unemployed.

                    Wow, genius. You are really gonna sway allot of people with that bit of research. (sarc) Why don't you support your statement with some facts on why you believe that. What exactly, name a bill or action, he has done that make him responsible for the current economic situation. I have yet to hear one factual argument from your side, so i'm excited to hear why you are so convinced that Obama is responsible.

                    • 2 votes
                    #12.1 - Sat Aug 13, 2011 2:45 AM EDT
                    mountainmike-1199289

                    There were serious financial problems before Obama started as president. The 2008 collapse of the economy is a good example. Then you have George W Bush nearly doubling the national debt, nearly tripled the long term unfunded fiscal commitments and grew the government/military payroll to gargantuan size.

                    Republicans are obstinately refusing to credit the fact that George W Bush happened. We need to keep reminding them.

                    • 3 votes
                    #12.2 - Sat Aug 13, 2011 3:12 AM EDT
                    FlyingEnergy

                    And it looks like Grim creeper is in the same boat as aqua Surf, no facts no rational reasoning just partison horse crap.

                      #12.3 - Mon Aug 15, 2011 7:59 PM EDT
                      Reply
                      noel-2811835

                      illegals billions and growing rapidly on welfare checks, soon a highly populated majority on welfare checks, why has not anyone even mentioned it? well I just did, and will continue

                      • 1 vote
                      Reply#13 - Sat Aug 13, 2011 3:02 AM EDT
                      FlyingEnergy

                      Why do you hate mexicans so much. Thats right I read your posts. You sound like a racist. What did the "illegals" do to you. And how does someone that doesn't have a valid S.S. number collect welfare? I would love to know the answer to that one.

                      • 3 votes
                      #13.1 - Sat Aug 13, 2011 3:17 AM EDT
                      Reply
                      smallstuff

                      "Consumers, who drive most economic growth, spent more on cars, furniture, electronics and other goods in July — and more in May and June than previously thought. That burst of activity is encouraging because it shows many Americans were willing to spend despite high unemployment, scant pay raises, steep gas prices and diminished wealth."

                      Fellow posters read the above quote taken from the article reprint and think for one moment. What does a one month gain of .5% in retail sales really mean and what are the ramifications of same.

                      First of all, does anyone here think that the prices for for the indicated goods were on par or inflated since 2007? Does anyone here think that a one month retail sales figure that (as usual) will be adjusted one way or another after certain secondary audits of the information are completed? Third does anyone here think that ANY of these purchases were paid for with out and out cash or bought on time and thus causing more Americans to incur more debt while admittedly having high unemployment, reduced personal wealth and income increases and some cases job terminations. All this while simultaneously the national debt has hit an alltime high and our duly elected politicians could not even get a grip around the nations finances enough to prevent a global resounding downgrade of US debt obligations.

                      Can anyone really say this is good news in good conscience? I think it shows that WE as a nation have not changed our ways, still let our WANTS over shadow our needs and are manipulated by this self imposed belief that spending makes for a happier and better life.

                      I'm not not impressed by a single motnh's report. I would be impressed if this were a sixth month increase at the same time that national and pesonal debt was being paid down and personal savings rates were increasing. Then I would agreee that wewe are averting a (continued) not a secondary recession.

                        Reply#14 - Sat Aug 13, 2011 10:34 AM EDT
                        smallstuff

                        I'd like to add one more personal anecdote regarding this report. I have been unemployed since December 2008, am 52 and hold what used to be considered good degrees to find and keep a job with one in business and a second in marketing. Living in a rural area of Virginia there was no work and through very flawed research decided to move to Texas which was purported to be hiring peope like no tomorrow. As a matter of fact, my wife, a teacher by education and trade found employment by a new start up private school in San Antonio thus we made the move.

                        We sold our "free and clear home" with a nice monthly income at a 4.50% mortgage rate to the buyer who pays better than "Uncle Sam". We moved to San Antonio in July 2010 and my wife started her job. After a year the business closed due to poor enrollment. I myself, after 450, count them 450 resume' and application submissions received just (ONE) call back and that was from a temporary agency to go into the manufacturing field as a $9.00 per hour employee. I made that amount per hour in 1986!

                        We had sold our other vehicle a 1997 Ford Ranger with 110k miles to save transport costs to Texas from Virginia and also to cut expenses. Thus we had to go into debt for a new/used car. I use that phrase because the car I bought was a low end econo-box that cost 14K! I have never had to pay over 10K in my life for any new vehicle as I view cars as a dead ex[ense for the average user, not an investment or prestige creator. We also have had to pay for my perscriptions monthly on credit cards that run $200.00 plus groceries and other monthly bills that our mortgage deal just does not cover. I had to buy perscribed clothing to wear in this factory as well.

                        We are now well above my comfort zone as far as debt to income ratio goes and my wife has yet to find work even though she has now applied to 12 different private schools and school districts. I assure you I would NOT have gone into debt if I had an alternative. I also have an IRA that I am trying ever so hard not to use for two reasons, it is all the savings we have left and secondly since I invested in General Lelectric stock as a primary veicle as a value stock, my IRA value is about 30% less than the actual cost basis. And thankfully we do NOT have any children that we must provide food, clothing or school needs for.

                        I sadly suspect that I am NOT the only person that is in a similar boat thus I believe these similar situations could be equated with the so-called (improved) retail sales but again as stated in my ealrier post, these sales may not be what I term as (healthy) sales but those of need and executed with credit and not cash flow.

                        • 1 vote
                        Reply#15 - Sat Aug 13, 2011 10:54 AM EDT
                        jesse285

                        Thank for your point of view, for a minute I thought that I was out of my mind, but anyway you are right it been a very long time since I see a 9 dollar a hour job, the last time that I work which were seven year ago, I was making at lease 18 dollar a hour, the reason why is because they cannot outsource the kind of jobs that I were doing, and yes this all begin some 25 year ago right under our nose and no-one say say anything about it.

                          #15.1 - Wed Aug 24, 2011 6:32 AM EDT
                          Reply
                          Leave a Comment:
                          You're in Easy Mode. If you prefer, you can use XHTML Mode instead.
                          You're in XHTML Mode. If you prefer, you can use Easy Mode instead.
                          (XHTML tags allowed - a,b,blockquote,br,code,dd,dl,dt,del,em,h2,h3,h4,i,ins,li,ol,p,pre,q,strong,ul)
                          Newsvine Privacy Statement
                          As a new user, you may notice a few temporary content restrictions. Click here for more info.
                          FUN STUFF:
                          • Leaderboard |
                          • E-Mail Alerts |
                          • Top of the Vine |
                          • Newsvine Live |
                          • Newsvine Archives |
                          • The Greenhouse
                          COMPANY STUFF:
                          • Code of Honor |
                          • Company Info |
                          • Contact Us |
                          • Jobs |
                          • User Agreement |
                          • Privacy Policy |
                          • About our ads
                          LEGAL STUFF:
                          • © 2005-2012 Newsvine, Inc. |
                          • Newsvine® is a registered trademark of Newsvine, Inc. |
                          • Newsvine is a property of msnbc.com