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Death highlights women's role in Special Ops teams

Tue Oct 25, 2011 3:50 PM EDT
politics, us, women, special, ops, ashley-white
Lolita C. Baldor, Associated Press
< PreviousNext >
showing 1 of 8 photos
<p>This undated photo provided by the North Carolina National Guard shows 1st Lt. Ashley White from Alliance, Ohio. White was killed Oct. 22, 2011, by an improvised explosive device in Kandahar province, Afghanistan. Last weekend, White died in combat in southern Afghanistan, the first casualty in what the Army says is a new and vital wartime attempt to gain the trust of Afghan women. White, like other female soldiers working with special operations teams, was assigned duties that would be awkward or impossible for her male counterparts, such as frisking burqa-clad women. (AP Photo/North Carolina National Guard)</p>

This undated photo provided by the North Carolina National Guard shows 1st Lt. Ashley White from Alliance, Ohio. White was killed Oct. 22, 2011, by an improvised explosive device in Kandahar province, Afghanistan. Last weekend, White died in combat in southern Afghanistan, the first casualty in what the Army says is a new and vital wartime attempt to gain the trust of Afghan women. White, like other female soldiers working with special operations teams, was assigned duties that would be awkward or impossible for her male counterparts, such as frisking burqa-clad women. (AP Photo/North Carolina National Guard)

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WASHINGTON — Army 1st Lt. Ashley White died on the front lines in southern Afghanistan last weekend, the first casualty in what the Army says is a new and vital wartime attempt to gain the trust of Afghan women.

White, like other female soldiers working with special operations teams, was brought in to do things that would be awkward or impossible for her male teammates. Frisking burqa-clad women, for example.

Her death, in a bomb explosion in the Taliban heartland of Kandahar, underscores the risks of placing women with elite U.S. special operations teams working in remote villages.

Military leaders and other female soldiers in the program say its rewards are great, even as it fuels debate over the roles of women in combat.

"We could do things that the males cannot do, and they are starting to realize that," says Sgt. Christine Baldwin, who like White was among the first groups of women deployed to Afghanistan this year as specially trained "cultural support" troops.

Male soldiers often cannot even speak to an Afghan woman because of the strict cultural norms that separate the sexes and the tradition of women remaining behind closed doors most of the time. Forcing the issue has yielded only resentment, military officials say, and has jeopardized the trust and cooperation of villagers. From the start of the war 10 years ago, Afghans have especially resented the practice of "night raids" in which male foreign soldiers enter and search homes, the traditional sanctum of women.

"We could search the female, find out the other half of the information," Baldwin said in an interview. "If you're missing half of the lay of the land, how effective are you in engaging the populace?"

That question was eight years in the making. It arose from the frustration of U.S. commanders who realized two years ago that as they tried to apply the principles of counterinsurgency — protect civilians and enlist them to reject insurgents and provide intelligence — they weren't reaching the majority of the Afghan population.

Now, the first female soldiers are serving in commando units. They are trained to ferret out critical information not available to their male team members, to identify insurgents disguised as women and figure out when Afghan women are being used to hide weapons.

U.S. women have been on the front lines in Afghanistan since the war began, and over time they have been used to reach out to the Afghan population through health care initiatives and other programs. They have traveled with Army soldiers and Marines throughout the warfront, often to assist in development projects or as part of psychological operations — what are now called MISO, or military information support operations.

But as elite special operations teams fanned out across the country doing counterinsurgency "stability operations" in the small villages, they complained to their superiors that they weren't reaching the women and children who make up as much as 71 percent of the population.

`We waited too long to get to this," says Command Sgt. Maj. Ledford Stigall. "We had a lot of people focused on the kill and capture, and it really took someone to say, hey it's not about kill, capture, it's about developing a country that can take care of itself."

"Women have a voice," he said. "They can influence the men in their society."

In 2009, under pressure from Gen. Stanley McChrystal, then the top U.S. commander in Afghanistan, and Gen. David Petraeus, then the top U.S. commander in the Middle East, the Army began to develop Cultural Support Teams.

Last November, the first group of women went through a grueling five-day assessment that tested their physical and military skills, their problem-solving and writing abilities and their psychological and mental fitness. Those that passed moved on to a six-week training program.

And in January, the first group of 28 women deployed to Afghanistan with Army Rangers and Special Forces teams.

They went in two-woman teams as part of larger special operations units — usually numbering about a dozen. And they were designed to go out on patrols and into the villages with the special operators to help build relations with the communities by engaging with the Afghan women.

In the process, they could also glean valuable intelligence about the people in the region, information they might not be able to get from the men.

Capt. Adrienne Bryant was in the first group that deployed.

Down in Helmand Province with a team of Marine special operations forces, Bryant said, the initial response from the population was tepid.

But on her first patrol, the team introduced her and her CST teammate to a village elder.

"He had been constantly abused by the Taliban, had been kidnapped and returned and he didn't want to work with coalition forces anymore because of the fear the Taliban was going to retaliate," said Bryant, in an interview.

Bryant and her teammate talked to him about what they could do for the women of his village, including the medical assistance and the skills training — like sewing — they could bring. And he was interested.

"Helmand was a pretty conservative area, women aren't really seen out much, they don't shop. So we had to disguise our sewing program, we ran it in conjunction with our clinic," said Bryant, who is from Virginia. "In case the women were being scrutinized because they were coming to learn a skill from us, they had cover by coming on clinic days."

Baldwin, of San Diego, was sent up north with an Army special operations team in Kunduz Province. The women they encountered were hesitant at first.

"We'd go out on patrol and be all kitted up and they were almost fearful, but once we took off that helmet, and put on the scarf, they would recognize that it was a female and the fear would be gone," she said.

Both Baldwin and Bryant said the Afghan women and children at their meetings grew from a few to dozens. Neither said they ever felt they were in immediate danger during their eight-month deployment, although they knew what was possible.

"Any day that they're walking into a village and engaging with the population they are at the same risk as those Special Forces, SEALs, or special operators they're detailed to. So I would say it is not for the weak-kneed," said Michael Lumpkin, the principal deputy assistant defense secretary for special operations. "These women are on the front lines in very austere locations."

White, 24, from Alliance, Ohio, was among the 34 CST members to go to Afghanistan in the second group, and she was assigned to a Ranger unit. The Ohio native and two Rangers were killed when their assault force triggered a roadside bomb. In a press release Monday, U.S. Army Special Operations Command said White "played a crucial role as a member of a special operations strike force. Her efforts highlight both the importance and necessity of women on the battlefield today."

Pentagon leaders know that the CSTs draw attention again to the ongoing debate over women on the battlefield, even though these are not technically combat roles.

The women in the CSTs, said Stigall, have proven to be critical assets.

"They were able to get (Afghan) women to talk about issues the men were too proud to talk about," said Stigall, who worked with the first group of teams in Afghanistan earlier this year. "The women were able to get a pulse on the community that we couldn't get from the men."

And, he acknowledged, there were instances where the CST women were able to identify a man dressed in women's clothing, or a woman carrying a weapon, and alert their male team members.

Lumpkin said that so far commanders agree the program has been a success. The third group of women is about to begin training, and the tentative plan is to have 25 permanent Army CST teams by 2016.

"When 71 percent of the population are women and children, you have to have buy-in from a greater number of people in the villages to really connect with them, and to understand really what's going on. Because of that female-to-female connection, that can be achieved," said Lumpkin.

He added, "We're coming late to the table, but we've recognized the value (of the program) and I think this will transcend beyond Afghanistan ... I don't see them going away any time soon."

© 2011 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.
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  • Lolita C. Baldor's Column, All of Newsvine
  • Groups: Down With Tin Horn Dictators, Femvine
  • Regions: Washington DC
  • Public Discussion (199)
Jump to discussion page: 1 2
dbmcc

She was a lot braver then I would ever be. God bless her soul. I'm sure she knew the risk and took the risk willingly. She probably saved the lives of other people who would have been exposed to the bomb.

I believe women are every bit as patriotic as their male counterparts and she was doing a job only a women could do in that society. It does however, make me wonder again if Afganistan is worth even one American Life?

  • 28 votes
#1 - Tue Oct 25, 2011 4:38 PM EDT
workhorse2010

Women giving their lives for our freedom, God bless em'.

  • 15 votes
#1.1 - Tue Oct 25, 2011 5:17 PM EDT
Fletch-495299

<S> RIP 1st Lt. Ashley White.

  • 18 votes
#1.2 - Tue Oct 25, 2011 5:57 PM EDT
follow the money

Got something today in my email, for veterans:

http://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/2011/10/25/we-can-t-wait-supporting-our-veterans

from the whitehouse..

check it out.

  • 8 votes
#1.3 - Tue Oct 25, 2011 6:00 PM EDT
Buzz of the Orient

Give it up already. It's not worth losing even one of our own for the sake of these barbarian uncivilized savages.

  • 8 votes
#1.4 - Tue Oct 25, 2011 7:32 PM EDT
MONEY-is-funDeleted
nolagrrl

Not only that, but in spite of the GOP, women are full US citizens, with a right to defend their country to the best of THEIR abilities, not just to some good ole boy's notion of what's 'proper.'

  • 10 votes
#1.6 - Tue Oct 25, 2011 8:33 PM EDT
California Militia

nola,

i actaully feel dumber having read your post.

if you would have read the article, you would see that she was there specifically because the "good ole boys" thought that it was proper.

  • 5 votes
#1.7 - Tue Oct 25, 2011 8:45 PM EDT
MONEY-is-funDeleted
mountainmike-1199289

I remember taking my mom into the doctor's office and picking up a National Geographic magazine with the cover story of an Afghan woman that had her nose cut off and scalped by her husband of an family arranged marriage with an elderly man when she was a young girl.

I usually like to stay open minded about other cultures, but.... this is the most horrific gender discrimination on the planet earth.

Then I read another story about a woman that was gang raped by a group of men, and the religious leader run court ruled she was to blame and was sentenced to be caned several hundred times. The men had no punishment. Then a few months later, I saw a story about a man convicted of raping his camel. He got sentenced to be caned a few hundred times. I guess women rank lower than camels in that part of the world.

If the Mideast women ever get the idea that they can empower themselves to fight back, watch out!!!

I have a great idea - lets shut down this quagmire and leave Afghanistan! My issue has never been the troops - it is the cowardly Washington DC desk warriors that always micromanage military missions into quagmires while having no military direct experience themselves or anyone in their extended families deployed to go fight their quagmires.

The Karzai government in Afghanistan is corrupt to the core. His entire extended family is involved in opium and hashish. We do not owe this situation anymore American lives.

  • 10 votes
#1.9 - Tue Oct 25, 2011 10:31 PM EDT
MarkD-555

I know the facts of fundamentalist Muslim life for women, but every time I hear about it it's still just as stupidly mind blowing.

They sneak out to learn sewing. Really. They treat their farm animals better.

All the best to all the troops, and this sounds like a great program. I just hope more Afghan women see other women living sane lives.

  • 4 votes
#1.10 - Tue Oct 25, 2011 10:35 PM EDT
jdl-28

How many of our troop must die for the Muslim stupidly?

When will our government learn to keep our troops home and allow the other countries fight and kill each other, we have enough oil in our country to last for 100 years having our child die is just a waste.

  • 2 votes
#1.11 - Tue Oct 25, 2011 10:58 PM EDT
JimEdee

What she was doing, was important to her...accomplishing her mission...I believe she knew the risk, but did it anyway.

Like so may others, she'll come home under the flag, she'll be missed but never forgotten...not by her brothers and sister in arms.

Rest easy LT.

  • 7 votes
#1.12 - Tue Oct 25, 2011 11:22 PM EDT
Tawney-4240638

jdl- Not to dimish any troops sacrifice, because I am very proud of our troops, but if you join the military you know the risks. Soldiers die to keep things like what mountainmike said from happening. You can argue our leaders started the war for oil and money, but the soldiers are fighting for much more. We can fix a nation, as long as citizens are willing, and it seems citizens are willing there.

Now for women in the military. I don't necessarily support them in combat teams unless necessary like in this case. Women have the pain of childbirth and nursing, as given by God. Men are to support the women and do labor, this includes combat, in my opinion. Why would I want my daughter to fight? My son, possibly, but not my daughter. Not to mention women are, on average, genetically weaker then men, and when you need to carry a fellow soldier that can be a big deal. Now this isn't true for all cases obviously, but it's more of who's role it is to do what. If there's a draft and they draft women, I would have to, unfortunately, get my daughter out of the country. That's not her place, women deliver and endure the pain to give us children. That's hard enough and men should do the rest.

  • 1 vote
#1.13 - Tue Oct 25, 2011 11:22 PM EDT
OneNativeSon

Honorable soldier; sister, daughter and freedom's bright eyed defender.

No mountain stood too high nor valley hung ever too deep,

For a woman so bright of eye, strong in both heart and steel to keep.

A real patriot not some stateside bs pretender.

Army 1st Lt. Ashley White. You're dedication and strength will make every good thinking citizen proud. Now stood down yet another fine soldier... please rest ye'well.

  • 7 votes
#1.14 - Wed Oct 26, 2011 9:21 AM EDT
Rich-2229277

As OneNative Son stated: "Honorable soldier, sister, daughter and freedom's bright eyed defender."

As you have and so many have sacrificed over the past years for this country, I thank you and honor you! You will not be forgotten and never taken for granted!

  • 6 votes
#1.15 - Wed Oct 26, 2011 10:40 AM EDT
nolagrrl

i actaully feel dumber having read your post.

That doesn't seem possible.

  • 2 votes
#1.16 - Wed Oct 26, 2011 12:22 PM EDT
ZenFreedom

Not even remotely possible, lmao.

  • 1 vote
#1.17 - Wed Oct 26, 2011 12:46 PM EDT
MONEY-is-funDeleted
Reply
TexMan

What???????

Like every other facet of US life .......... there is nothing to talk about unless it happens to a woman.

Some equality .......

  • 4 votes
#2 - Tue Oct 25, 2011 4:45 PM EDT
Jumpmaster82

Yea, Tex

How'd she get a special story?

  • 1 vote
#2.1 - Tue Oct 25, 2011 4:54 PM EDT
TexMan

Don't know ........ maybe the 4500 men who died can tell us

  • 5 votes
#2.2 - Tue Oct 25, 2011 5:01 PM EDT
82AllAmericansExpand Comment Comment collapsed by the community

So Tex, how will you be judged... at the risk of being booted from the "vine", which I'll gladly accept... I have to say that you're an ass.

  • 14 votes
#2.3 - Tue Oct 25, 2011 5:09 PM EDT
TexManExpand Comment Comment collapsed by the community

and you are a fool ...........

wake up

  • 5 votes
#2.4 - Tue Oct 25, 2011 5:19 PM EDT
Pablo-123Expand Comment Comment collapsed by the community

More straight white male whining.

  • 6 votes
#2.5 - Tue Oct 25, 2011 5:30 PM EDT
Jimmy the Goon

CoH Pablo. Racial remarks are unnecessary and inflammatory.

  • 6 votes
#2.6 - Tue Oct 25, 2011 5:35 PM EDT
TexMan

LOL.......... whining???????

Some of us just know the deference between @!$%# and shineola...... (google it if you do not get it)

  • 4 votes
#2.7 - Tue Oct 25, 2011 5:35 PM EDT
82AllAmericans

hmmm... it's easy to be tough on the Internet... I'd serve with any of these women any day of the week as apposed to some "Internet Tough Guy"... oh that's right... I ALREADY HAVE!

  • 11 votes
#2.8 - Tue Oct 25, 2011 5:42 PM EDT
douglasq

She's getting a "special" story because she is doing something that we, as a society, previously said women cannot do. Or, if they could do it, we were unwilling to let them. She is getting a "special" story because she is representative of the changing role of women in the armed forces.

She is getting a "special" story because she was there. Where were you?

Some of us know the definition of "crass"... (google it if you do not get it)

  • 18 votes
#2.9 - Tue Oct 25, 2011 5:43 PM EDT
Jimmy the Goon

Now that's funny. But I do have to be honest. Some of the women I served with did not inspire my confidence that they could save me in battle, but neither did some of the guys. But it did seem like female soldiers on average were not as able to lift and carry wounded soldiers and needed equipment as well as male soldiers. Just a general observance, and they made up for it in other areas. Some made really good decisions, and were much more level headed when times were stressful. So I guess you take the good with the bad.

  • 6 votes
#2.10 - Tue Oct 25, 2011 5:47 PM EDT
TexManExpand Comment Comment collapsed by the community

LOL @ 82

Some of did when there was not a choice.

Ignorant azzHOLE

  • 2 votes
#2.11 - Tue Oct 25, 2011 5:49 PM EDT
Jimmy the Goon

No name calling. Remember the CoH.

  • 3 votes
#2.12 - Tue Oct 25, 2011 5:50 PM EDT
Mitsy-475766

The troops should have all been home long before now. We didn't need to lose the thousands we've lost in this war. Far too many losses.

  • 7 votes
#2.13 - Tue Oct 25, 2011 5:52 PM EDT
82AllAmericans

Jimmy... from my vantage point of 22 years active duty in the US Army... soldiers, women or men will be exactly what you (a leader) allow them to be.

  • 13 votes
#2.14 - Tue Oct 25, 2011 5:52 PM EDT
82AllAmericans

Tex... slow down and use your words correctly... but yeah, I'll own that because that's all people like you can understand...other people like you... did you get that?

Besides, if what you're trying to say is that you've served with women, then I'd say to you that you should be the LAST to be critical of her or any other person who has lost their life serving.

  • 7 votes
#2.15 - Tue Oct 25, 2011 5:55 PM EDT
Pablo-123

CoH Pablo. Racial remarks are unnecessary and inflammatory.

But sexist remarks are all cool?

  • 6 votes
#2.16 - Tue Oct 25, 2011 5:58 PM EDT
TexMan

People like me?????????? .........

Sorry,, I made it out alive 2x

People like you do not have a clue.......

Go be stylish somewhere else

  • 6 votes
#2.17 - Tue Oct 25, 2011 6:00 PM EDT
Jimmy the Goon

Yeah. Because I made sexist remarks. No, I made general assumptions that are correct. An AVG 120lb woman cannot pick up and carry as much as the average 160lb male. It's science not sexism. Go to school and learn the difference Pablo.

I think you have a point there 82.

  • 8 votes
#2.18 - Tue Oct 25, 2011 6:06 PM EDT
Pablo-123

Like every other facet of US life .......... there is nothing to talk about unless it happens to a woman

Really, what part of the above quote that I was resonding to is science?

It's science not sexism. Go to school and learn the difference Pablo.

When I wrote....

More straight white male whining.

....I wasn't responding to you genius.

Go to school and learn the difference Pablo.

Feel free to remove your foot from your mouth at any time.

  • 3 votes
#2.19 - Tue Oct 25, 2011 6:20 PM EDT
FactOfTheMatter

Like every other facet of US life .......... there is nothing to talk about unless it happens to a woman.

Um, did you miss something in the article about how there's an extremely small number of them working with special forces?

  • 9 votes
#2.20 - Tue Oct 25, 2011 6:26 PM EDT
TexMan

Nope........... got it......... just wondering about the 45oo men who got killed. No special story for them ........ just a grave marker

Your point?

  • 3 votes
#2.21 - Tue Oct 25, 2011 6:32 PM EDT
mountainfirefall

men don't have enough of a 'platform', poor tex has to advocate on behalf of men...

chuckles....

end the war.... then all those men tex is worried about can come home.

  • 6 votes
#2.22 - Tue Oct 25, 2011 6:37 PM EDT
TexManExpand Comment Comment collapsed by the community

They already came home ........... in a body bag

What is your point azzhole???????

Be stylish somewhere else

  • 3 votes
#2.23 - Tue Oct 25, 2011 6:40 PM EDT
mountainfirefall

how much do you hold in the way of oil certificates?

    #2.24 - Tue Oct 25, 2011 6:54 PM EDT
    TexMan

    Not one dime ........ who are you trying to impress with your BS??????????

    • 4 votes
    #2.25 - Tue Oct 25, 2011 6:57 PM EDT
    ZenFreedom

    Way to stand up for the troops, tex. It's nice watching some supposed former Service Member spit on the recognition of one of the fallen for no other reason than maybe they didn't get their own name in the print. For an encore, why don't you go to her funeral and tell her friends and family how much more deserving you are of the attention being paid to her?

    • 11 votes
    #2.26 - Tue Oct 25, 2011 6:59 PM EDT
    mountainfirefall

    who are you trying scare with yours?

    • 3 votes
    #2.27 - Tue Oct 25, 2011 7:00 PM EDT
    TexManExpand Comment Comment collapsed by the community

    ZEN -

    Your typical misrepresentation on this vine.

    I just wonder why she is more important than the 4500 men who died.

    Stylish is just too overrated in my opinion.

    Said another way .......... go fu*k yourself

    • 1 vote
    #2.28 - Tue Oct 25, 2011 7:04 PM EDT
    rescue dogs62

    Tex,

    I'm curious how long your suspension will be with so many CoH violations...you should be gone for about a month. I hope everyone is hitting the report button on your inflammatory statements. If unfortunately happens when it's an MSNBC story with no seeder.

    On to your other statement which IMHO is ludicrous. I have read countless stories about the men who have died in battle, look at the publicity that the team that got bin Laden. This story is not only about her, but about the relatively new approach, that we've finally gotten around to is that kicking down doors and rousting women and children in that culture gets us nothing but more enemies. Every single day they're stories about troops getting killed. It seems like you have an issue with women more than you do with this story.

    Like every other facet of US life .......... there is nothing to talk about unless it happens to a woman.r about a month

    • 6 votes
    #2.29 - Tue Oct 25, 2011 7:16 PM EDT
    TexMan

    Not everything you disagree with is a CoH violation

    NOT ONE MINUTE I THINK

    • 3 votes
    #2.30 - Tue Oct 25, 2011 7:20 PM EDT
    rescue dogs62

    Tex,

    I has nothing to do with either my agreeing or disagreeing with you.

    Said another way .......... go fu*k yourself

    Ignorant azzHOLE

    What is your point azzhole???????

    Those are CoH violations. Perhaps you need to read them. I can guarantee you, you will get a suspension

    • 6 votes
    #2.31 - Tue Oct 25, 2011 7:35 PM EDT
    FactOfTheMatter

    I just wonder why she is more important than the 4500 men who died.

    No one is saying she is more important than anyone, what we are saying is that it highlights an important issue about whether or not women should be working with them in the first place.

    • 6 votes
    #2.32 - Tue Oct 25, 2011 7:49 PM EDT
    WakeUpPeople-1385514

    No, I made general assumptions that are correct. An AVG 120lb woman cannot pick up and carry as much as the average 160lb male. It's science not sexism.

    Tell that to these women...

    http://www.ironasylumgym.com/womenofpower/

    Teale Adelmann - 370lbs squat, 264lbs bench press, 355 deadlift

    Kate Baird - 425lbs squat, 255lbs bench, 400lbs deadlift

    Kara Bohigian-Smith - 565 squat, 451 bench, 501 deadlift

    Ruby Calabrese (AF Reservist) - 250 squat, 160 bench, 260 deadlift

    Brooke Fineis-Curry - 520 squat, 341 bench, 440 deadlift

    etc...

    http://www.132poundsofpower.com/

    Jennifer Thompson -315 squat, 293 bench, 419 deadlift.

    Jimmy... from my vantage point of 22 years active duty in the US Army... soldiers, women or men will be exactly what you (a leader) allow them to be.

    82AllAmericans is right. The reason most men in the military can lift a lot is because the ones who couldn't were let go during boot camp and subsequent training. Women who couldn't lift a lot were still allowed to continue through. It has nothing to do with an average woman's ability, it has everything to do with the standards set by military leaders. Start raising the physical requirements for women when in combat roles and you'll see just as many strong women as men.

    Not everyone has the genetic disposition to be a power-lifter. But it doesn't matter what gender the person is. You either have it or you don't. My grandfather was a professional boxer and is in the boxing hall of fame. Most of my family have big stocky bodies and build muscles quickly. My mom was benching over 100 lbs when she was 13 yrs old!

    It has nothing to do with male vs female. It's genetic regardless of gender. The army's selection process discards those men without the genetic ability, but has not done so for women. If it did, you would see women who are just as strong as men throughout our special forces.

    • 8 votes
    #2.33 - Tue Oct 25, 2011 7:52 PM EDT
    TexMan

    @fact -

    That is probably correct.

    about whether or not women should be working with them in the first place

    That is why the military has tried to keep them off the front lines. They obscure all of the objectives and issues and turn the entire matter into a feminine debate.

    • 2 votes
    #2.34 - Tue Oct 25, 2011 7:56 PM EDT
    Student of Life

    I'm a Marine Corps Sgt, and I'll gladly take a platoon of women into combat who have fought tooth and nail for the right to be there, versus a platoon of men who think it's their genetic disposition that they should be chosen to go.

    It takes 5.5lbs of pressure to pull a trigger to the rear, meaning it takes brains, not brawn to be effective in combat. I've never saved anyone's life with a benchpress, or killed an enemy with a bicep curl.

    I worked with many of the Lionesses in my day, and they were all stellar Marines and soldiers. They never complained, they just completed their missions.

    You can't and shouldn't ask for anything else.

    She deserves the honor and respect for the actions and the values she's displayed.

    Remember, she didn't just volunteer for the Army. She didn't just volunteer for the Lioness program, she volunteered for a pilot program with some of the most elite warriors on the planet.

    Do you think for ONE MINUTE that they'd lower their standards and risk their own if they didn't think she was capable ?

    I'll put any of the female Marines from my old unit up against just about any male on this thread, and smart money will go on the girls.

    Pick your discipline. My MPA is a no-gi national champion and a brazillian jiujitsu black belt. My Comm Lt is a triathelet. My log clerk is a powerlifter. My admin clerk is a avid crossfitter. My armorer is a distinguished marksman with the rifle.

    It doesn't matter if you're a guy or a girl, if you can't pull your weight (and then some) in my unit - you're gone.

    • 15 votes
    #2.35 - Tue Oct 25, 2011 8:14 PM EDT
    Bambi-2024856

    Student just OWNED it!!!! YES!!!!!!!

    • 7 votes
    #2.36 - Tue Oct 25, 2011 8:37 PM EDT
    nolagrrl

    Now that's funny. But I do have to be honest. Some of the women I served with did not inspire my confidence that they could save me in battle, but neither did some of the guys.

    Ah - but remember, women, by law, are not allowed to be trained for combat. We still kick.

    I also suggest you NOT say that to a combat nurse.

    • 5 votes
    #2.37 - Tue Oct 25, 2011 8:38 PM EDT
    bonos_rama

    What it comes down to is women like this shatter the fragile male ego. Period.

    • 9 votes
    #2.38 - Tue Oct 25, 2011 9:27 PM EDT
    Mac-101

    G-d bless this lady LT. It takes a well conditioned soldier to hump all that gear. Especially to keep up with Special Forces personnel. Few men and very few women can. Not only ya got up a hundred pounds plus, in Afcrackistan, it's up and down mountains. Nowhere is easy to git to unless ya willin to take an IED. That generally makes for a bad day. So once again, G-d bless this special women's soul who was workin with a Special Forces team.

    • 3 votes
    #2.39 - Tue Oct 25, 2011 9:43 PM EDT
    Buzz of the Orient

    What it comes down to is women like this shatter the fragile male ego. Period.

    Ha ha, bonos_rama, it shouldn't take much to accomplish that. :~)

    • 5 votes
    #2.40 - Tue Oct 25, 2011 9:58 PM EDT
    TexMan

    I am trying to recall .......... how many male troops have died in Iraq and how many female troops have died in Iraq.

    I guess we just keep lowering the bar til the women seem to be equal.

    Someone tell me ....... how many dead male troops does it take to make up one female troop?

    All of women censors can collapse this but the truth is the truth ..... no matter how much you try to conceal it.

    • 2 votes
    #2.41 - Tue Oct 25, 2011 10:20 PM EDT
    mountainmike-1199289

    TexMan:

    How about EVERYONE that has died while serving America gets 100 percent honor and respect?

    Seems like all of my Vet buddies and the people I know deployed and serving in the Mideast would stand behind that 100 percent.

    You don't own the topic!

    • 8 votes
    #2.42 - Tue Oct 25, 2011 10:42 PM EDT
    CommisarCain

    It takes 5.5lbs of pressure to pull a trigger to the rear, meaning it takes brains, not brawn to be effective in combat.

    It take a lot more strength than that to carry your gear into battle. The elite military units require both strength and intelligence.

    • 2 votes
    #2.43 - Tue Oct 25, 2011 11:05 PM EDT
    jdl-28

    Texman

    You are out in left field all of our personnel should receive respect and you seem to hate women for some reason. None of our citizens should be dieing for any country oversea take it out on your government not on the women that serve.

    Listen to {82AllAmerican for he is right in what he have been telling you sometime you can learn from other} Instead you like to call people names, which tell me you are like a teenager follow up. Some of the names you call the other posters show you at a lost in how to debate in the proper way.

    • 5 votes
    #2.44 - Tue Oct 25, 2011 11:16 PM EDT
    Student of Life

    Texman,

    The fact that when they die, be they male or female - they get the same respect.

    A pair of boots, their rifle turned upside down and planted into the ground, with their dogtags hung from the pistol grip, and their kevlar placed on top.

    When they are brought off the C130 at Dover, they are treated the same be they male or female. Their coffin is draped with an American flag, and they are met by a funeral detail who treats their coffin with the utmost respect and gives it the dignity and honor they deserve.

    When they are buried, be they male or female, they are given the same military burial complete with a 21 gun salute, their flag folded and presented to their loved one as a testament to their service.

    If the mlitary doesn't make a distinction between male and female in death -

    WHO THE @!$%# ARE YOU TO MAKE A DISTINCTION ABOUT THEIR PERFORMANCE IN LIFE? Dead is dead. Man, woman, whoever. This soldier gave HER life for HER country.

    That is what should be respected here, and not marginalized in any way shape or form.

    • 9 votes
    #2.45 - Tue Oct 25, 2011 11:22 PM EDT
    cmach

    Bravo Student of life!! Well said...

    • 2 votes
    #2.46 - Tue Oct 25, 2011 11:30 PM EDT
    Student of Life

    comisar,

    If you were ever in, you haven't been for awhile.

    Most patrols nowadays are mounted. If we dismount, we bring our assault pack, ammo, weapon, and body armor - roughly 50+60 lbs in total. Our ILBE packs either stay in the trucks or in the camps. Women are more than capable of handling that sort of load, especially being the weight distribution is much more even than the ILBEs. The ILBES have also greatly reduced difficulty in carrying a full ruck by distributing the load much better than ALICE or even MOLLE packs which were a killer on the lower back.

    You pack your ILBE right, and you can put 100lbs on it and go all day with no worries.

    Every single person who starts one of our military's special forces programs are physically capable of completing the program. That's why there's pre-screening and fitness requirements that must be met as prerequisites.

    The reason that the 80+ percent attrition rate exists is because of a lack of MENTAL toughness.

    It takes much more brains than brawn to succeed in the Special Operations Community.

    And again, they wouldn't lower their standards just to get some publicity. THey have no need , nor desire to.

    • 5 votes
    #2.47 - Tue Oct 25, 2011 11:30 PM EDT
    CommisarCain

    You pack your ILBE right, and you can put 100lbs on it and go all day with no worries.

    Special operations personnel are required to be able to go for several days with no worries or sleep.

    It takes much more brains than brawn to succeed in the Special Operations Community.

    That is not because it does not take brawn. That is because it takes a lot of mental prowess. You need to be in incredible shape to be a part of the US special operations forces.

    • 3 votes
    #2.48 - Tue Oct 25, 2011 11:33 PM EDT
    TexMan

    I was not disrespecting her or her service to the country. This is what I said :

    What???????

    Like every other facet of US life .......... there is nothing to talk about unless it happens to a woman.

    Some equality .......

    I wonder where the stories for the other 450k troops KIA are. Not stylish enough to talk about here I guess.

    To me that is disrespecting all of the others who died before her.

    Let's see if the zealot woman censors on this thread will collapse me again.

    Nothing like living in a world of self righteous censorship.

      #2.49 - Tue Oct 25, 2011 11:41 PM EDT
      Student of Life

      Carrying a pack doesn't take a lot of muscular strength. It takes endurance. It takes core body strength, lower body strength

      Okay let's look at the Marine Corps Force Reconnaissance indoc test.

      Obtain and demonstrate CWSQ level 1. That's swimming. No brawn there.

      Complete a first class PFT. That's 15 pullups, 100 crunches, and a 22:30 run time. No brawn there.

      Tread water for 1 hour. No brawn required.

      a 40 mile hike with a 65 lb pack.

      That's the screening. No 'brawn' required. In fact, if you're a yoked guy, Special Forces schools are going to be incredibly tough for you. Muscle doesn't float. I lost almost 30 lbs going through school , and I already didn't have a lot to lose. We (this might be a clue) don't have bench press competitions. There's no bicep curls to be done. Everything that we do in that training is body weight. Climbing ropes, pullups , pushups, runs, calisthenic exercises, things of that nature. There's not a lot of heavy lifting. Our goal is muscular endurance. How far can you push yourself, how many times can you get over the bar or the wall, and how much further beyond what your body wants to endure is your mind willing to endure.

      If they selected this 1stlT, it's because she was qualified.

      • 5 votes
      #2.50 - Tue Oct 25, 2011 11:47 PM EDT
      CommisarCain

      That's the screening. No 'brawn' required.

      Most people don't have the strength to do those things. Hiking 40 miles with 65 pounds is incredibly difficult.

      Our goal is muscular endurance.

      Which most people do not have.

      • 1 vote
      #2.51 - Wed Oct 26, 2011 12:18 AM EDT
      TexMan

      I found an article that supports my point .........

      The answer is 400 to 1

      http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/100_american_women_dead_in_iraq/

        #2.52 - Wed Oct 26, 2011 8:40 AM EDT
        Jimmy the Goon

        Pablo. You quoted me, then wrote your little speel. I don't know how you were not speaking to me.

        WakeupPeople thank you for proving my point. There are some that can do it, but on the average there are not many. And for each of those women you show, there are men in the same weight class that have outdone them. I am not attacking women in general. I am just saying that women on average are not as strong physically. Many of them are tougher mentally than their male counterparts, because of their devotion.

        Scientifically speaking, it has to do with hormones, not commitment, or desire, or training. I would agree that women should be held to the exact standards males are. This differentiating between male and female physical fitness is equitable, but when your life depends on it, not fair, and I don't care if your in a combat MOS or not. It should be the same either way.

          #2.53 - Wed Oct 26, 2011 10:32 AM EDT
          SouthLa

          Student -

          Thanks for your service. At the end of the day, she gave her life. That's all that matters. She will be mourned by those who knew her and those who didn't but can recognize what sacrifice she made.

          You (the Military) are the best of us.

          • 2 votes
          #2.54 - Wed Oct 26, 2011 11:01 AM EDT
          82AllAmericans

          TexMan... look, I do not want to trade insults with you or anyone else out here or "be stylish" as you say (whatever that means), but my point is this and to me it's very simple... 1st Lt. Ashley White was a soldier who died serving her country, and there is no questioning that, from you or anyone else. No body said that she or any of the other women that have died in the line of duty were any different or more special than any male Soldier, Sailor, Marine or Airman... so it's really hard to understand why you're trying to make that distinction.

          There was a story a few years back of a medic (see the link), paratrooper in the 82nd Airborne Division, it was all good until most found out that she was a woman... really? Read the story tell me what you think... my point is that it does not matter.

          http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23547346/ns/us_news-military/t/female-medic-earns-silver-star-afghan-war/#.TqggiXKVoQw

          • 4 votes
          #2.55 - Wed Oct 26, 2011 11:03 AM EDT
          ZenFreedom

          I wonder where the stories for the other 450k troops KIA are. Not stylish enough to talk about here I guess.

          There are tons of stories about male KIA's in the news. I guess you simply felt the need to spit on someone's sacrifice because you've got a problem with women. Please, do go and count how many news stories involving male KIA's there are as opposed to female. I'd love to see your numbers. The Army Times list the names and units of those killed between each issue. Maybe you should stop looking up your fourth point of contact for information...

          • 4 votes
          #2.56 - Wed Oct 26, 2011 11:11 AM EDT
          Student of Life

          Texman,

          If you go to the news section of Google, you'll see that there's over 10,700 stories of people killed in Afghanistan. Of the top ten story's - 9 of them are of men who died.

          In fact the Daily Mail just did a piece on one of the Army Rangers who died alongside the 1stLt.

          There was a news article this morning about a Marine LCpl killed over the weekend.

          A west Philly sailor also died over the weekend, story's in the top ten results.

          A soldier from Round Rock also died this weekend.

          More research, less bloviating would go a long way for you.

          You know the saddest part about this? It's obvious that this soldier did everything in her power to make her gender a non-issue - and it's the only issue that concerns you..

          • 9 votes
          #2.57 - Wed Oct 26, 2011 11:32 AM EDT
          ZenFreedom

          Kinda makes you wonder about what kind of discharge that was received?

            #2.58 - Wed Oct 26, 2011 11:45 AM EDT
            Sally

            Ignorant azzHOLE

            TexMan, you are suspended for a week for violating rule # 1 of the Code of Honor.

            Above all else, respect others. Address issues and arguments and refrain from making personal attacks.

            • 10 votes
            #2.59 - Wed Oct 26, 2011 11:52 AM EDT
            nolagrrl

            I wonder where the stories for the other 450k troops KIA are. Not stylish enough to talk about here I guess.

            Ask Mr. Bush and Mr. Cheney.

            • 2 votes
            #2.60 - Wed Oct 26, 2011 12:25 PM EDT
            SouthLa

            And behind door #2 : NolaGrrl getting all bashy, I was wondering how long that was going to take.

              #2.61 - Wed Oct 26, 2011 12:30 PM EDT
              Student of Life

              Zen, he strikes me as suffering from what SgtMajUSMC Kent called 'the dinosuar mentality.'

              I just have a hard time not believing that in ANY branch, that the giant chip on shoulder wasn't too tempting of a target for one of our sisters to gladly knock off for him.

              I can think of 5 right off of the top of my head that would LOVE the opportunity to...

              • 1 vote
              #2.62 - Wed Oct 26, 2011 1:41 PM EDT
              82AllAmericans

              I just have a hard time not believing that in ANY branch, that the giant chip on shoulder wasn't too tempting of a target for one of our sisters to gladly knock off for him.

              Maybe that's the problem...

              • 1 vote
              #2.63 - Wed Oct 26, 2011 2:28 PM EDT
              Student of Life

              Ah a little bruised ego - yeah that could do it...

              • 1 vote
              #2.64 - Wed Oct 26, 2011 2:42 PM EDT
              WakeUpPeople-1385514

              WakeupPeople thank you for proving my point. There are some that can do it, but on the average there are not many. And for each of those women you show, there are men in the same weight class that have outdone them.

              Not really... they are neck and neck... and in some cases the women are lifting more than the men within the same weight class. look at the world records...

              http://www.ipapower.com/WR/M114.htm

              http://www.ipapower.com/WR/W114.htm

              http://www.ipapower.com/WR/M123.htm

              http://www.ipapower.com/WR/W123.htm

              http://www.ipapower.com/WR/M132.htm

              http://www.ipapower.com/WR/W132.htm

              The fact is, women have the ability and potential of being as strong or stronger than men. Because of society and social factors, many women CHOOSE not to be. But that doesn't mean they can't. And it doesn't mean that women who CHOOSE to be in special forces are any less of a soldier than their male counterpart.

              And hormones have nothing to do with it. As a woman works out her body produces more testosterone and less estrogen, just like a man's body does.

              There are physical difference though, you are correct... and some of those physical differences make women MORE suitable for combat if they were to choose to. For example, Women have more body fat then men, which can help in extreme cold conditions as well as in outdoor survival situations. If you are lost behind enemy lines and have to "live off the land". A woman will have a natural edge over a male because of the normal extra body fat her body hangs on to, as well as the fact that an average woman standing 5'6" tall and weighing 120 lbs requires much fewer calories every day than your average 5'10" 180lb male. That ultimately means women can live off smaller rations without a "hit" to their abilities to perform when compared to their male counterparts.

              I remember reading an article a few years ago where they surveyed BUD/S instructors and asked what their ideal candidate is. They said 5'8" or shorter and weighing under than 180 lbs. Why do they want smaller men? Because a smaller person burns less calories, which means they have more endurance. Your endurance runs out when you physically do not have enough energy to continue. It has nothing to do with muscle mass. In fact muscle mass counteracts endurance since muscle mass eats up more calories. for every lb of muscle on your body you burn 50 extra calories every day, just breathing, not to mention the extra energy required to move that extra weight. It's why marathon runners are NEVER ripped. We always think combat soldiers need to look like Rambo or Schwartzenagger. But the opposite is true. They need to look like marathon runners. A younger cousin of mine is a body builder and just finished Army basic. He lost 30 lbs of MUSCLE during basic. Why? Because it slows you down and you don't need it for the tasks a soldier goes through. Carrying 100 lbs for 20 miles day in and day out does not make you ripped, it makes you skinny like a marathon runner. Try it. Go to Wal-mart, buy a Gold's Gym weight vest (25lbs or 50lbs) and wear it while walking even 5 miles every day. See what happens...

              For this same reason, women make as good a soldier as men do. Not every woman is cut out to be a soldier. But not every man is either. Don't stereotype the entire gender based on those who aren't cut out for the task to begin with.

                #2.65 - Wed Oct 26, 2011 2:45 PM EDT
                Student of Life

                Wakeup,

                Just like to point out something -

                68/180 lbs actually would be outside of height/weight standards for the Navy. Most Special Forces members are in the 60-70% percentile for their height. They're not big, but they're not small either. What they don't carry a lot of is 'wasted weight'. That's a result of training though...

                And it's not just muscular endurance, it's length of their limbs. If you have shorter limbs, it's easier to hike, climb, and lift your body weight because you don't have to go as far.

                At 6'0" 180 lbs, it takes me a LOT more energy to climb ropes and such than it would if I were 5'8" and 155. Plus I have long limbs. Good for boxing, bad for calisthenics.

                • 1 vote
                #2.66 - Wed Oct 26, 2011 3:07 PM EDT
                WakeUpPeople-1385514

                68/180 lbs actually would be outside of height/weight standards for the Navy.

                http://www.military.com/military-fitness/army-fitness-requirements/army-weight-control-charts

                5' 10" is 70 inches.

                A 70 inch tall male ages 17-20 should weight 180 lbs by army standards. If 21-27 he should weight 185 lbs, 28-39 he should be 189 lbs, over 40 should be 192 lbs.

                In the BUD/s article I read, it said the ideal candidate is 5' 8" (68") and UNDER 180 lbs. I'm assuming because you are going to lose a lot of that during buds training? I'll see if I can find the article. I think it was in the times or something...

                  #2.67 - Wed Oct 26, 2011 7:48 PM EDT
                  Student of Life

                  Well, you said 5'8", not 5'10" . So 68 inches versus 70.

                  Secondly, you look up an Army height/weight scale - not a Navy one.

                  Navy max weight standard is 181 lbs for 68 inches.

                  You will lose some weight during BUD/S , but most candidates don't have a lot of weight to lose in the first place.

                  One of the biggest reasons they like BUD/S candidate to be slender is that muscle is heavier than water. Your yoked guys don't float very well, and they struggle with every water evolution as a result of it.

                    #2.68 - Sun Oct 30, 2011 10:57 AM EDT
                    Reply
                    CynicL1

                    Sad that she died, but about time all soldiers were provided equal risk and reward, no matter the gender.

                    • 9 votes
                    #3 - Tue Oct 25, 2011 4:55 PM EDT
                    MONEY-is-funDeleted
                    rescue dogs62

                    Treated with much respect from all of us.

                    Except TexMan

                    • 7 votes
                    #3.2 - Tue Oct 25, 2011 8:54 PM EDT
                    grump in NM

                    Poor TexMan. Taking a beating he is. Check out his Newsvine pages. You will have a chuckle.

                    • 5 votes
                    #3.3 - Tue Oct 25, 2011 9:25 PM EDT
                    OomYaaqub

                    Sad that she died, but about time all soldiers were provided equal risk and reward, no matter the gender.

                    WHAT "equal risk"? It's fairly obvious that women face additional risks. You know, like rape, pregnancy, sexually inspired torture, need I really spell this out? That's why civilized societies don't allow women into combat except under the most extraordinary circumstances. I can understand how Lt. White's presence was necessary in this unusual situation. But she was needed precisely because she was a female, NOT because men and women are equally strong or equally aggressive or equally qualified for combat.

                    I'm a woman, BTW. And let's not kid ourselves--maybe women have to volunteer for combat today, but once it becomes the norm, sooner or later it will be required. If a draft is brought back, and we can't rule that out forever, your daughter could be forced into combat. And I think that's just plain shameful. Isn't it enough that we GIVE life? Now we have to take it, too?

                    • 1 vote
                    #3.4 - Tue Oct 25, 2011 11:02 PM EDT
                    OomYaaqub

                    Poor TexMan. Taking a beating he is

                    Yes, it happens to anyone who doesn't tow the party line 100%. To leftists, it's a crime to think for yourself.

                      #3.5 - Tue Oct 25, 2011 11:03 PM EDT
                      TexMan

                      LOL ........ more like a powder puff pummeling ......... no worries.

                      Here is a bone for some of you:

                      http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/17/us/17women.html?pagewanted=all

                      • 1 vote
                      #3.6 - Tue Oct 25, 2011 11:10 PM EDT
                      TexMan

                      Oh ........ then there is this too. Not so stylish but the cold hard truth of the matter:

                      The answer is 400 to 1

                      http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/100_american_women_dead_in_iraq/

                        #3.7 - Wed Oct 26, 2011 8:43 AM EDT
                        82AllAmericans

                        OomYaaqub... No, it's not a crime to think for yourself, and as for "towing one's party line, PLEASE lets not even go there... he expressed his opinion and I expressed mine. I've explained where and how my opinion was formed, his only point was that a woman was getting more press than other men who had paid the same price. Look at what Student of Life posted in regards to Tex's rant(s)... not stylish enough to pass muster with him because he kept saying the same things, nothing intelligent just disrespect for women soldiers, as a matter of fact I now even question if he even read the story because if he had I truly cannot see how he would have a problem.

                        • 2 votes
                        #3.8 - Wed Oct 26, 2011 12:31 PM EDT
                        WakeUpPeople-1385514

                        ? It's fairly obvious that women face additional risks. You know, like rape, pregnancy, sexually inspired torture, need I really spell this out?

                        actually, it's common knowledge that men in captivity get raped frequently and are administered "sexually inspired" (as you call it) torture. Its not something they talk about openly. But I remember reading about that exact issue a few years ago and stats show there is a high number of male POWs that get raped by their captures, have their genitals mutilated, or have different forms of "sexual" or "genital" torture as well as other forms of torture.

                        As for pregnancy. While there is a chance for it, it's unlikely. With the physical abuse, starvation/poor diet, and stress a captured soldier receives, a woman will usually go into Amenorrhea pretty quickly. I would imagine women in Special Forces would have to train so hard that they would probably have Amenorrhea while operational, just like olympic athletes do. If she did happen to get pregnant before Amenorrhea set in, she would probably have a miscarriage before she started showing signs of pregnancy from the malnutrition, stress and physical abuse/torture.

                        • 4 votes
                        #3.9 - Wed Oct 26, 2011 1:16 PM EDT
                        MONEY-is-funDeleted
                        grump in NM

                        TexMan got suspended for a week. By a girl.

                        • 1 vote
                        #3.11 - Thu Oct 27, 2011 10:16 AM EDT
                        ZenFreedom

                        TexMan got suspended for a week. By a girl.

                        LMFAO! ~zing~

                          #3.12 - Thu Oct 27, 2011 10:28 AM EDT
                          MONEY-is-funDeleted
                          MONEY-is-funDeleted
                          naughtynumbernine

                          Well, I don't really believe in God...

                          Seriously though you can't just blatantly request validation through shameless self promotion. You gotta act like you don't want it. You have to play it cool...

                          Another thing, people will refrain from voting up comments that are primarily capitalized or in bold. It could be the greatest thing anyone's ever read but if the delivery is too pretentious, they'll overlook the up arrow.

                          Hope this helps and welcome to the vine.

                          • 2 votes
                          #3.15 - Thu Oct 27, 2011 8:41 PM EDT
                          MONEY-is-funDeleted
                          naughtynumbernine

                          But we should still treat our soldiers with respect

                          That's true.

                            #3.17 - Fri Oct 28, 2011 4:21 PM EDT
                            Reply
                            mountainfirefall

                            how about we stop pickin fights and putting our citizens regardless of gender in harms way... tell me why we're there and then the war of words can begin.

                            She isn't the first to die, and own't be the last

                            but she should be.

                            • 17 votes
                            Reply#4 - Tue Oct 25, 2011 4:59 PM EDT
                            Tawney-4240638

                            They are there to improve another country's way of life. We can argue why the wars were started but in the end we killed dangerous terrorists and saved lives. If you only take one thing from these wars just think our men and women saved lives, immediate and future. Now, the actual effectiveness of the wars are yet to be determined. We will see how the country does when we leave at the end of the year. I haven't served in the military but I can honestly say if I wasn't newly married with a 5 month old daughter I would be in basic training right now. I may join Reserves sometime in the next couple years, but I'm dissapointed I couldn't serve along with the men and women who are over there now.

                            • 1 vote
                            #4.1 - Tue Oct 25, 2011 8:55 PM EDT
                            mountainfirefall

                            We have found a way to honor the soldier without eating the propaganda along with that.

                            there is no talking to someone who has mainlined that propaganda for so long, that the deaths of americans in lands rich with oil and resouces, are expected without question... and then glorified.

                            We have the ability to value life, and in doing so reject war and build toward peace and respect of worldly neighbors. We as a nation of freedom loving people have allowed 'politicians' to neglect diplomatic skills and abilities as they cloak the real nature of continued domination tactics.

                              #4.2 - Wed Oct 26, 2011 12:49 PM EDT
                              Reply
                              ashliegh

                              Women can give their lives for our country also, no problem here. Women being present may actually save live in certain situations.

                              • 9 votes
                              Reply#5 - Tue Oct 25, 2011 5:08 PM EDT
                              Ripley8

                              that is too true.

                              PBS has been running a great documentary ..

                              Women , War and Peace

                              http://www.pbs.org/wnet/women-war-and-peace/

                              • 9 votes
                              #5.1 - Tue Oct 25, 2011 5:14 PM EDT
                              follow the money

                              http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chauvinism

                              or...sexist?

                              • 1 vote
                              #5.2 - Tue Oct 25, 2011 6:59 PM EDT
                              MONEY-is-funDeleted
                              Tawney-4240638

                              Money- Women still aren't allowed in actual combat roles, if I'm correct. Just support to combat.

                              • 3 votes
                              #5.4 - Tue Oct 25, 2011 8:58 PM EDT
                              Ripley8

                              MONEY-is-fun

                              yoooooo. can't believe women risk their lives. wonder if theres a woman that joined the Navy Seals

                              Female Navy SEALs? Special Operations Commander 'Ready to Go Down That Road'

                              The top commander of U.S. special operations says he thinks it's time for women to go into combat as Navy SEALS.

                              A Navy SEAL himself, Admiral Eric T. Olson said at the opening session of the 2011 Aspen Security Forum that he would like to see female SEALs in combat roles.

                              "As soon as policy permits it, we'll be ready to go down that road," said Olson.

                              He added that being a SEAL is not just about physical strength. "I don't think the idea is to select G.I. Jane and put her through SEAL training, but there are a number of things that a man and a woman can do together that two guys can't," said Olson. "I don't think it's as important that they can do a lot of push-ups. I think it's much more important what they're made of and whether or not they have the courage and the intellectual agility to do that."

                              While women serve in the U.S. special forces community as information specialists and civil affairs specialists, there are currently no female SEALs, Green Berets, Rangers or Marine special operators as a result of the 1994 combat exclusion policy that precludes women from being assigned to ground combat units.

                              http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/female-navy-seals-special-forces-chief-ready-road/story?id=14180174

                              • 3 votes
                              #5.5 - Tue Oct 25, 2011 10:10 PM EDT
                              OomYaaqub

                              I'll be in favor of women risking their lives in combat the minute men start doing their share of pregnancy, childbearing, and breast feedng.

                              • 4 votes
                              #5.6 - Tue Oct 25, 2011 11:06 PM EDT
                              David-1830107

                              I disagree with this guy. As My family being all in Special Forces. I have watched what they carry what they pack for miles upon miles. It takes tons of strength and endurance. Are they going to have all the men carrying 150 pound packs and the women not? Would a woman at that point ever reach respect with the men that are carrying her burden?

                              • 1 vote
                              #5.7 - Wed Oct 26, 2011 1:33 PM EDT
                              MarkD-555

                              Individuals serve, not their gender.

                              Would a woman at that point ever reach respect with the men that are carrying her burden?

                              And if she carried the exact same burden, the answer would still be: "With some, she still would never get respect".

                              • 4 votes
                              #5.8 - Wed Oct 26, 2011 3:23 PM EDT
                              Reply
                              yellowrose18

                              It is sad that she died, but she died doing what she wanted to do. Many women in the military want to be able to fight on the front lines like the men. That is also true of many male dominated jobs here in the U.S. and in other countries.

                              There are so many male servicemen that have died in the Gulf, Iraq, and Afghanistan, and I have never seen one article dedicated to each of them.

                              She chose to do what she did, she knew the risks. If I had joined the military, I would have wanted to be in the action, but that is the thinking of most type A personalities.

                              I became an Officer, and although highly risky, I knew what I was getting into, and yes I was able to get further in some areas of investigations than a male Officer, but I was also shot at as well just as male Officers.

                              My son is a Marine, and although not currently deployed, he will be next year, I still worry about him constantly and did since he told me he was going to join. But he knew the risks and wanted to be a Marine despite those risks.

                              • 7 votes
                              Reply#6 - Tue Oct 25, 2011 5:25 PM EDT
                              Schwartsy

                              Here's to our fearless leaders... Turning nice Americans into gangsters. Gives me a warm feeling knowing all our taxes contribute directly toward some Zionist robber baron's pet hobby.

                              • 9 votes
                              Reply#7 - Tue Oct 25, 2011 5:28 PM EDT
                              Adler315

                              God rest her soul.

                              "We could search the female, find out the other half of the information," Baldwin said in an interview. "If you're missing half of the lay of the land, how effective are you in engaging the populace?"

                              If you haven't already done so, do check out the superb documentary Restrepo (2010) by author (The Perfect Storm) and documentarian Sebastian Junger and photojournalist Tim Hetherington - in April, Tim Hetherington was killed in Misrata, Libya in a mortar barrage laid down by loyalist forces of Muammar Gaddafi. From that film, you'll get some idea as to how effectively we are "engaging the populace": Major Dan Kearney, the company commander, offers to give fuel for the entire winter to the inhabitants of a local village if they will turn in just one machine gun to U.S. forces. He speaks, seemingly interminably and without pause, in rapid-fire English.

                              An Afghan interpreter translates the proposal from English into Dari, another man translates that into Pashto, and then a tribesman translates that into the local dialect. — Threat Matrix: A Blog Of The Long War Journal

                              As indicated in that same Threat Matrix article, the Afghan tribesmen regard foreign soldiers "as people who've just landed from the moon."

                              When we leave Afghanistan - as we someday will, and as we surely must - that country will, in many respects, essentially revert to conditions that existed four hundred years ago. The blood of thousands upon thousands of Soviet and American troops that has drenched Afghan soil since 1979 has made not a whit of difference.

                              • 7 votes
                              Reply#8 - Tue Oct 25, 2011 5:43 PM EDT
                              johnny angel

                              Local women who talked with her are likely to suffer as well. While my heart bleeds for this story, I am acutely aware how futile our effort is. No accolades about bravery or dedication make up for the loss. She is but one-in-millions who've died in my lifetime. The price of gasoline gets a more earnest discussion. As a Vietnam Era veteran I don't know what else to say.

                              • 7 votes
                              #8.1 - Tue Oct 25, 2011 5:53 PM EDT
                              Jeremiah-2094437

                              Our troops made 1000's and 1000's more strides towards "Helping" that country and it's people become something greater than they are, than the Russians did.

                              We are not Occupiers of the country but Guests, and their children see our solders much like any other child would, with AWE. and when that kid grows up he'll know... he'll know the good from the bad, and our guys...

                              Are the Good guys. (*despite the far and few inbetween examples of indecent treatment of civilians on our nations part)

                              end rant

                              • 3 votes
                              #8.2 - Tue Oct 25, 2011 6:50 PM EDT
                              Mac-101

                              NOone hates da commies more than I. But the Soviets made a large investment in infrastructure and modernising the entire country. The city folk appreciated it, the country folk didn't. In the end they neutralized large areas of ALL life forms they could find. If they had our weapons, they would have prevailed.

                              Many of the Afghan doctors, engineers, scientist, pilots that survived came back out and attempted to rebuild Afghanistan with our help. But as mentioned above numerous times, it will revert again to total barbarity and primitiveness as soon as we leave.

                              • 2 votes
                              #8.3 - Tue Oct 25, 2011 9:52 PM EDT
                              OomYaaqub

                              Which means it was basically a total waste. Very sad for the families of everyone who died there, including innocent Afghan civilian men, women, and children.

                              • 3 votes
                              #8.4 - Tue Oct 25, 2011 11:08 PM EDT
                              TexMan

                              I think YellowRose just articulated my point ......

                              There are so many male servicemen that have died in the Gulf, Iraq, and Afghanistan, and I have never seen one article dedicated to each of them.

                                #8.5 - Tue Oct 25, 2011 11:14 PM EDT
                                RachaelMM

                                There are so many male servicemen that have died in the Gulf, Iraq, and Afghanistan, and I have never seen one article dedicated to each of them.

                                Then it is abundantly apparent that you haven't been looking. Student of Life blew that lie right out of the water in post 2.57 above.

                                • 5 votes
                                #8.6 - Wed Oct 26, 2011 12:45 PM EDT
                                yellowrose18

                                RachaelMM, I most certainly do look for them, more now than ever because my son is a Marine. Student of Life cites just a few deaths yet in total to date out of all of the wars there have been over 30,000 deaths of our troops. I have not read or seen 30,000 stories about them.

                                I understand that they cannot tell the story of each individual that gave their lives over there, and I am not saying that they should not print an exclusive story such as this one, but we all need to remember just how many lives in total have been lost.

                                It is very strange that Bin Laden himself stated that "nearly 3000 people died when we attacked America, and when they retaliate, we will succeed in killing 10 times more (30,000)". Thank goodness our Seal Team found and disposed of this threat to the world. Yet the statement he made still stings my ears, because he was right.

                                  #8.7 - Wed Oct 26, 2011 9:25 PM EDT
                                  RachaelMM

                                  You yourself said you have "never" seen a single article dedicated to a male servicemember killed in action. If you haven't seen a single story about a male servicemember who has died in action, you're simply missing them because they most certainly do exist.

                                  • 1 vote
                                  #8.8 - Thu Oct 27, 2011 9:36 AM EDT
                                  Reply
                                  Schwartsy

                                  Purely sacrificial and meaningless and expensive waste of a life... If it weren't for gullibility and youth....

                                  • 11 votes
                                  Reply#9 - Tue Oct 25, 2011 5:51 PM EDT
                                  IndependentVoter

                                  Just who are you to make that judgment concerning someones life?

                                  • 5 votes
                                  #9.1 - Tue Oct 25, 2011 6:48 PM EDT
                                  Schwartsy

                                  I have been there. I know what I am talking about. Don't get me started!

                                  • 8 votes
                                  #9.2 - Tue Oct 25, 2011 7:17 PM EDT
                                  MONEY-is-funDeleted
                                  Bambi-2024856

                                  Oh wow, so cuz you're a Vet you "earned" the right to talk @!$%# about fallen soldiers?

                                  Never heard that one before....

                                  • 2 votes
                                  #9.4 - Tue Oct 25, 2011 8:39 PM EDT
                                  MONEY-is-funDeleted
                                  OomYaaqub

                                  How did the wars actually protect our country?

                                  • 3 votes
                                  #9.6 - Tue Oct 25, 2011 11:09 PM EDT
                                  ArizonaIsAPit

                                  Please, get going Schwartsy. The more you talk, the more you show your ignorance. I love it when people state that they know because they have been there. Prove it. Playing a first person shooter on your computer does not make you an expert.

                                  • 3 votes
                                  #9.7 - Wed Oct 26, 2011 8:37 AM EDT
                                  Bambi-2024856

                                  Careful Arizona...he's probably lost a lot a friends playing 'Call Of Duty'. He's really sensitive about that.

                                    #9.8 - Wed Oct 26, 2011 10:30 AM EDT
                                    IndependentVoter

                                    Oh wow, so cuz you're a Vet you "earned" the right to talk @!$%# about fallen soldiers?

                                    Never heard that one before....

                                    Remember john kerry*

                                    * He fought in Vietnam

                                    • 1 vote
                                    #9.9 - Wed Oct 26, 2011 11:59 AM EDT
                                    Reply
                                    MONEY-is-funDeleted
                                    Elvis he PelvisDeleted
                                    rescue dogs62

                                    Bambi,

                                    While I agree with the intention of your statement, that was a CoH violation, so unless you want to end up with a suspension, which I'm sure you don't, it would be better if you get angry without a personal insult on another poster.

                                    • 2 votes
                                    Reply#12 - Tue Oct 25, 2011 8:47 PM EDT
                                    Bambi-2024856

                                    Ha, you're not too familiar with Newsvine...the moderators sometimes don't pay attention to "personal insults"...you won't believe the crap people say and get away with.

                                    It's all in the eyes of the beholder (moderator).

                                    • 1 vote
                                    #12.1 - Tue Oct 25, 2011 9:29 PM EDT
                                    rescue dogs62

                                    Bambi,

                                    Then you've never been on one of my seeds, and actually I am familiar with Newsvine. I've been on it almost 4 years, and am on sometime every day. What I don't do, almost ever, is go to a discussion board that has no seeder, this article was an exception.

                                    • 2 votes
                                    #12.2 - Tue Oct 25, 2011 9:39 PM EDT
                                    Bambi-2024856

                                    Well, the moderator came through and suspended someone for CoH violation...and I'm still here.

                                    BOOM!

                                    Bambi: 1, Rescue: 0

                                      #12.3 - Wed Oct 26, 2011 1:20 PM EDT
                                      Reply
                                      bearass

                                      This makes my stomach churn. Where was the bomb? I don't-REALLY don't give one rat's azz about their customs if they prove a security risk of any kind. Backwards clan of the cave bear-one of the worst cases of cult oppression ever. Damn them all. That woman gave her life for all of us, and she will not be forgotten!

                                        Reply#13 - Tue Oct 25, 2011 9:09 PM EDT
                                        CertifiedSpecialist

                                        I am sure there will be many Afghan women mourning the death of Army 1st Lt. Ashley White.

                                        • 6 votes
                                        Reply#14 - Tue Oct 25, 2011 9:16 PM EDT
                                        Peter-2556560

                                        Sad incident, such a big loss to everyone when you think about. You began to ask yourself the same question, Is it really worth it, having these soldiers in some foreign land fighting to protect you and I.

                                        It brings tears to my eyes, and i asked myself this same very question again and over again, What if..Soldiers have been know to feel different, after all that's what they are obligated to when they enrolled. What does the end of the contract say as they been know by. It's common courtesy on their part as servicemen and women in uniforms. We just relate to them as Heroes of this Nation, who have died under the same proud flag for the United States of America.

                                        One question remains which no one wants to think it when such tragedy happened, what do you say to her family??What if she is my sister? I don't know, but one thing is clear in my mind. I can not stand knowing that someone died on duty just to protect me.

                                        We can all talk about politic all damn day long today, tomorrow, and so on..but why in the word do Politician keep arguing that we should continue fighting in these two wars in the Middle East?? Do they feel safer at home when such horrific incident like this happen?

                                        • 3 votes
                                        Reply#15 - Tue Oct 25, 2011 9:26 PM EDT
                                        MONEY-is-funDeleted
                                        Reply
                                        US Citizen-658112

                                        As the USA is a dominant military presence...small unit actions against an enemy which will historically and predictably "hide and fight among the people" will become even more the normal than they are now.

                                        The genders working together can often be more effective than either working alone or apart.

                                        I am glad special operations forces are not adhering to old patterns and are successfully adapting to the modern battlefields...again...as our enemies are surely doing so!

                                          Reply#16 - Tue Oct 25, 2011 10:05 PM EDT
                                          CommisarCain

                                          If women are going to fight alongside men, they will die alongside men.

                                          • 1 vote
                                          Reply#17 - Tue Oct 25, 2011 10:51 PM EDT
                                          rational thought-3748544

                                          This isn't war to protect America. This is occupation and nation building pure and simply. If these people are culturally so stuck in the past that the we can't even talk to their women without causing resentment and hostility we will never change the hearts and minds of these people stuck in a religious culture hundreds of years old. This young brave woman's death is for nothing and it really saddens me. The leadership of this country should be ashamed to continue to ask our young people to die for such a worthless and futile cause.

                                          Osama Bin Laden is dead. Mission accomplished. Afghan President Karsi has said that if the US went to war with Pakistan, he would support them. It's time to say goodbye and show them our dust as we leave their pathetic country.

                                          • 3 votes
                                          Reply#18 - Tue Oct 25, 2011 10:56 PM EDT
                                          OomYaaqub

                                          This young brave woman's death is for nothing and it really saddens me. The leadership of this country should be ashamed to continue to ask our young people to die for such a worthless and futile cause

                                          Totally agree, except I would extend that logic to every American soldier who died there.

                                            #18.1 - Tue Oct 25, 2011 11:11 PM EDT
                                            nolagrrl

                                            Sounds like some of the redder states in the US. Kansas? N. Dakota? Mississippi? My own Louisiana? Can we discuss a woman's right to medical care on her terms, not yours?

                                              #18.2 - Wed Oct 26, 2011 12:28 PM EDT
                                              WakeUpPeople-1385514

                                              This isn't war to protect America. This is occupation and nation building pure and simply.

                                              Osama Bin Laden is dead. Mission accomplished.

                                              there is a lot more to afghanistan than meets the eye. We originally invaded as part of a long term plan to take Iran. If you notice, we now have Iran surrounded.

                                              There is also an economic return from invading afghanistan. Look up the Trans Afghanistan pipeline. By invading Afghanistan, we now have a say in the development of this pipeline and can take a piece of its profits. Also, the majority of the world's opium and hashish comes from afghanistan. Just like past presidents used our military and CIA to take over, run and profit from cocaine operations in Central and South America... OUR corrupt politicians are looking at Afghanistan as a new drug cash cow.

                                              Also, as china becomes a financially and militarily stronger nation, Afghanistan plays a HUGE strategic role for us. Afghanistan is the land "nexus" of Asia. It sits right in the middle of everything. We already have military bases in Kyrgyzstan and Uzbekistan. Adding Afghanistan to the mix gives us a larger military "footprint" in the area with hopes of muscling in on the oil rich Caspian Sea and keeping an eye on China.

                                              Don't be so naive as to think we are in Afghanistan to help the afghan people or to rid the world of a terrorist group. We would never have invaded unless there was a lot of profit to be made for our politicians and their corporate interests. The same was true with Central and South America and the same is true with south east asia and the middle east. In the end it's all about money...

                                                #18.3 - Wed Oct 26, 2011 2:05 PM EDT
                                                Reply
                                                cmach

                                                Bring our troops home!!!!!!!!!

                                                RIP 1st LT. Ashley White!! You are/were awesome..

                                                • 3 votes
                                                Reply#19 - Tue Oct 25, 2011 11:00 PM EDT
                                                Pro life activoist

                                                I honor every one serves and puts themselves at risk to protect us. My Son is an Army Ranger and the casualty (wounded and killed) rate among his buddies who have seen combat is 60%.

                                                It is about time women are called to serve and risk their lives as men have all along.

                                                  Reply#20 - Tue Oct 25, 2011 11:10 PM EDT
                                                  OomYaaqub

                                                  If you favor drafting young women and forcing them into combat, your screen name is somewhat ironic.

                                                  • 3 votes
                                                  #20.1 - Tue Oct 25, 2011 11:12 PM EDT
                                                  rational thought-3748544

                                                  Pro life activist??????

                                                  You're kidding right?

                                                    #20.2 - Tue Oct 25, 2011 11:21 PM EDT
                                                    JAVE

                                                    If you favor drafting young women and forcing them into combat, your screen name is somewhat ironic.

                                                    Many in our world make distinctions between the innocent and the not. Many people are not religious. They don't see the world as one theory for all situations.

                                                      #20.3 - Tue Oct 25, 2011 11:43 PM EDT
                                                      rational thought-3748544

                                                      Do they also get to decide who is innocent and who is not? Judgement is mine sayeth the Lord.

                                                        #20.4 - Wed Oct 26, 2011 12:07 AM EDT
                                                        JAVE

                                                        What God wants, God gets. The rest just live their life.

                                                          #20.5 - Wed Oct 26, 2011 2:02 AM EDT
                                                          Reply
                                                          JAVE

                                                          She died an American soldier.

                                                          Women troops seem a good solution. Their women are considered lesser but that doesn''t stop them from hiding intelligence on these women. Bin Ladin's wives seemed rather stand by your man.

                                                          American woman stay away from me.

                                                            Reply#21 - Tue Oct 25, 2011 11:39 PM EDT
                                                            rational thought-3748544

                                                            HUH?

                                                            • 1 vote
                                                            #21.1 - Tue Oct 25, 2011 11:42 PM EDT
                                                            JAVE

                                                            HUH?

                                                            She died an American soldier.

                                                            It seems self explanitory. She died in combat fighting for the USA, we own her. She is heir to all that an American soldier killed is due.

                                                            Women troops seem a good solution. Their women are considered lesser but that doesn''t stop them from hiding intelligence on these women. Bin Ladin's wives seemed rather stand by your man.

                                                            While off limits to other men, the Muslim woman is entrusted with intelliegence and keeping it safe. Both of Bin Ladin's wives didn't play the meek Muslim woman. They fought for him and got their arses shot in the process.

                                                            American woman stay away from me.

                                                            If you think of a female US Army soldier, many are first thinking of the chick that made the Iraqi's do gay sex, go in a pyramid, bark like a dog and such. If you ask many people about Abu Ghiard they remember the American woman kicking ass. You never heard Americans argue she was just some woman tricked into these deeds. She was portrayed as at least co-ring leader.

                                                            The West has a long history of strong women. Look at Elizabeth and her sister Mary. Look at Carrie Nation and her gals @!$%#ing up bars from coast to coast.

                                                            There was a reason the song was written.

                                                            • 1 vote
                                                            #21.2 - Tue Oct 25, 2011 11:57 PM EDT
                                                            Reply
                                                            Viewer_Ready

                                                            Hey, the guys and gals with the "rainbow ribbon of honor" can go in (to combat) now.

                                                            Why not straight females?

                                                            • 1 vote
                                                            Reply#22 - Tue Oct 25, 2011 11:44 PM EDT
                                                            Student of Life

                                                            When you find a weapons system that does a gender or sexual persuasion check before it will operate - I might see grounds for your argument.

                                                            However, as there's no such system...

                                                            • 4 votes
                                                            #22.1 - Wed Oct 26, 2011 12:58 AM EDT
                                                            Viewer_Ready

                                                            Most of them do.

                                                            It is called the "inherent mechanic ability check".

                                                            It knows the difference between a wrench, a multi-meter and a nail file.

                                                            • 1 vote
                                                            #22.2 - Wed Oct 26, 2011 6:41 PM EDT
                                                            Reply
                                                            rescue dogs62

                                                            Viewer,

                                                            I must just be dense. There certain are "straight" females in the military, and I'm sure there are a large number of gay females that have been serving our country....I know that for a fact because I worked with ex military nurses. That they weren't able to serve openly with pictures of those they love displayed, I think is tragic. They are risking their lives just as much, they bleed the same red blood as everyone else when they die.

                                                            • 3 votes
                                                            Reply#23 - Wed Oct 26, 2011 12:16 AM EDT
                                                            JAVE

                                                            Was she gay? Does it matter. She an American soldier. Enough said.

                                                            Whether she was Left or Right means @!$%#. She died under our flag. She was only a common American that did uncommon things.

                                                            • 4 votes
                                                            #23.1 - Wed Oct 26, 2011 2:07 AM EDT
                                                            SouthLa

                                                            JAVE - Well Effing Said.

                                                              #23.2 - Wed Oct 26, 2011 10:51 AM EDT
                                                              Reply
                                                              David-1830107

                                                              Brave girl RIP,

                                                                Reply#24 - Wed Oct 26, 2011 11:00 AM EDT
                                                                1eachBENNIS

                                                                For those that are interested in the subject of women in combat, check out "Lioness."

                                                                Really, for me it just shows the abject lack of planning at higher levels. Having females and/or female translators is..ahem, not as sexy as some wizz-bang technological voodoo thingy. Again, a total lack of understanding about who we are fighting and how.

                                                                  Reply#25 - Wed Oct 26, 2011 12:54 PM EDT
                                                                  mountainfirefall

                                                                  I know other dead women who died in war... just not the wars our government have encouraged.

                                                                  Honoring this kind of death gives her a status.

                                                                  Who among you will honor the deaths of women who died at the hand of men at war with them.

                                                                  I mean... as long as we are arguing value... lets get to the heart of it.

                                                                  Women are being attacked right here at home... and more and more 'men' are ending the status they achieved when laws were written to protect them, by defunding the resources.

                                                                  this woman died in battle on foreign soil... I respect that. There are those here who wish to deny her the status she 'earned'.

                                                                  why.

                                                                  there's an answer.. all you have to do is acknowledge it.

                                                                    Reply#26 - Wed Oct 26, 2011 12:57 PM EDT
                                                                    blindsided-1194485

                                                                    Thoughts and prayers to Lt.White's family, loved ones, and the Rangers she served with. Many female servicemembers have endured terrible wounds and given their lives in the service of our country in Afghanistan, Iraq, and other places around the world. May she and other brave soldiers, sailors, airmen, and marines NEVER be forgotten.

                                                                      Reply#27 - Wed Oct 26, 2011 1:07 PM EDT
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