Newsvine
  • Welcome
  • Help
  • Report Bug
  • Conversation Tracker
  • Your Column
  • Replies
  • Friends
Type Comments Since You Last CheckedArticle Source Last Checked Stop Tracking All Clear Tracking All
Advertise | AdChoices
Log In | Register
Close the Login Panel
Existing users log in below. New users please register for a free account.

New Users:

Existing Users:

E-Mail:
Password:
Forgot Password?
Please enter the e-mail address or domain name you registered with:
E-Mail/Domain:
Back to Login
Log Out
  • Top News
  • Local News
  • World
  • U.S.
  • Sports
  • Politics
  • Tech
  • Entertainment
  • Science
  • Business
  • Health
  • Odd News
  • More
    • Arts
    • Education
    • Environment
    • Fashion
    • History
    • Home & Garden
    • Not News
    • Religion
    • Travel
What is Newsvine?

Updated continuously by citizens like you, Newsvine is an instant reflection of what the world is talking about at any given moment.

Get a Free Account
Help
Fun Stuff
  • Your Clippings
  • Leaderboard
  • E-Mail Alerts
  • Top of the Vine
  • Newsvine Live
  • Newsvine Archives
  • The Greenhouse
  • Recommended Articles
  • Wall of Vineness
Put a Seed Newsvine link on your own site

Oakland police action unnerves some protesters

Wed Oct 26, 2011 6:26 PM EDT
us-news, us, wall-street, street, protests
Terry Collins, Associated Press
Barber and Wall Street protester Steve Vilot was giving symbolic haircuts to demonstrate what the banks should be doing.
< PreviousNext >
showing 1 of 8 photos
<p>An exchange of opinions between a supporter of the Occupy Wall Street protests, right, and passersby attracts attention at Zuccotti Park in New York on Tuesday, Oct. 25, 2011. Some businesses and residents are losing patience with the protesters in the park, the unofficial headquarters of the movement that began in mid-September. (AP Photo/Bebeto Matthews)</p>

An exchange of opinions between a supporter of the Occupy Wall Street protests, right, and passersby attracts attention at Zuccotti Park in New York on Tuesday, Oct. 25, 2011. Some businesses and residents are losing patience with the protesters in the park, the unofficial headquarters of the movement that began in mid-September. (AP Photo/Bebeto Matthews)

Advertise | AdChoices

OAKLAND — The display of police force in Oakland, Calif., and Atlanta has unnerved some anti-Wall Street protesters.

While demonstrators in other cities have built a working relationship with police and city leaders, they wondered on Wednesday how long the good spirit would last and whether they could be next.

Will they have to face riot gear-clad officers and tear gas that their counterparts in Oakland, Calif., faced Tuesday? Or will they be handcuffed and hauled away in the middle of the night like protesters in Atlanta?

"Yes, we're afraid. Is this the night they're going to sneak in?" said activist William Buster of Occupy Wall Street, where the movement began last month to protest what they see as corporate greed.

"Is this the night they might use unreasonable force?" he asked.

An Iraq War veteran marching with demonstrators suffered a cracked skull in the chaos between officers and protesters in Oakland, further raising concern among some in the movement. Scott Olsen, a 24-year-old Marine veteran, was in critical condition Wednesday after he had been struck, said a spokesman for Highland Hospital in Oakland.

It was not clear exactly what type of object hit the veteran or who might have thrown it, though the group Iraq Veterans Against the War said it was lodged by officers. Police Chief Howard Jordan said at a news conference that the events leading up to Olsen's injury would be investigated as vigorously as a fatal police shooting.

The message, meanwhile, from officials in cities where other encampments have sprung up was simple: We'll keep working with you. Just respect your neighbors and keep the camps clean and safe.

Business owners and residents have complained in recent weeks about assaults, drunken fights and sanitation problems. Officials are trying to balance their rights and uphold the law while honoring protesters' free speech rights.

"I understand the frustration the protesters feel ... about inequity in our country as well as Wall Street greed," Baltimore Mayor Stephanie Rawlings-Blake said. "I support their right to free speech but we also have rules and laws."

Some cities, such as Providence, R.I., are moving ahead with plans to evict activists. But from Tampa, Fla., to Boston, police and city leaders say they will continue to try to work with protesters to address problems in the camps.

In Oakland, officials initially supported the protests, with Mayor Jean Quan saying that sometimes "democracy is messy."

But tensions reached a boiling point after a sexual assault, a severe beating and a fire were reported and paramedics were denied access to the camp, according to city officials. They also cited concerns about rats, fire hazards and public urination.

Demonstrators disputed the city's claims, saying that volunteers collect garbage and recycling every six hours, that water is boiled before being used to wash dishes and that rats have long infested the park.

When riot gear-clad police moved in early Tuesday, they were pelted with rocks, bottles and utensils from people in the camp's kitchen area. They emptied the camp near city hall of people, and barricaded the plaza.

Protesters were taken away in plastic handcuffs, most of them arrested on suspicion of illegal lodging.

Demonstrators returned later in the day to march and retake the plaza. They were met by police officers in riot gear. Several small skirmishes broke out and officers cleared the area by firing tear gas.

The scene repeated itself several times just a few blocks away in front of the plaza.

Tensions would build as protesters edged ever closer to the police line and reach a breaking point with a demonstrator hurling a bottle or rock, prompting police to respond with another round of gas.

The chemical haze hung in the air for hours, new blasts clouding the air before the previous fog could dissipate.

The number of protesters diminished with each round of tear gas. Police estimated that there were roughly 1,000 demonstrators at the first clash following the march. About 100 were arrested.

On Wednesday, Oakland officials allowed protesters back into the plaza where their 15-day-old encampment had been raided but said people would be prohibiting from spending the night, potentially bringing another clash with police.

About 1,000 people quickly filled the plaza, but late at night, many of them filed out and began marching down nearby streets.

A reporter at the scene says police erected wooden barricades to block the march, but the protesters veered off as a group and continued down another street.

There were no signs of clashes between the two sides.

It wasn't immediately clear how many people were left in the plaza, where some had vowed to spend the night.

In Atlanta, police in riot gear and SWAT teams arrested 53 people in Woodruff Park, many of whom had camped out there for weeks as part of a widespread movement that is protesting the wealth disparity between the rich and everyone else.

Mayor Kasim Reed had been supportive of the protests, twice issuing an executive order allowing them to remain.

Reed said on Wednesday that he had no choice to arrest them because he believed things were headed in a direction that was no longer peaceful. He cited a man seen walking the park with an AK-47 assault rifle.

"There were some who wanted to continue along the peaceful lines, and some who thought that their path should be more radical," Reed said. "As mayor, I couldn't wait for them to finish that debate."

Reed said authorities could not determine whether the rifle was loaded, and were unable to get additional information.

An Associated Press reporter talked to the man with the gun earlier Tuesday.

He wouldn't give his name — identifying himself only as "Porch," an out-of-work accountant who doesn't agree with the protesters' views — but said that he was there, armed, because he wanted to protect the rights of people to protest.

People who were arrested trickled out of jail as a crowd of several dozen supporters chanted "freedom" as they left.

"I think Mayor Reed would do well to learn quickly that you cannot intimidate, you cannot threaten, you cannot jail something whose time has come," activist Derrick Boazman said. "The fact of the matter is this movement's time has come."

In Portland, Ore., the protest seems to be at a crossroads. Organizers have been dealing with public drunkenness, fighting and drug abuse for weeks, especially among the homeless who are also in the camp.

Some are floating the idea of relocating it, possibly indoors. Others see that as capitulation.

"I don't know if it would be a good idea. Part of the effectiveness of what's going on here is visibility," protester Justin Neff said. "Though I'd do it if there's a possibility that we'd get seen and noticed. I don't know how that would work indoors."

City officials haven't said what would cause them to forcibly evict the protesters. They said they evaluate the camp daily.

In Baltimore, protesters like Casey McKeel, a member of Occupy Baltimore's legal committee, said he wasn't sure aren't sure what to expect from city officials, noting that some cities have arrested protesters in recent weeks.

"Across the country we're seeing a wide range of reactions," he said. "For now we're hoping the city will work with us."

The mayor, Rawlings-Blake, said she is willing to work with them, but they should realize that they are camping out in a city park and that was not its intended use. She said their free-speech rights don't trump the public's right to enjoy the space.

"I have absolutely no interest in a violent exchange," she said. "We want to work with the protesters, but the point is to talk about inequity and talk about how we can work together to have a more just society or more equitable Baltimore.

"It's not about pitching a tent. It's about getting the work done," she said.

___

Contributing to this report were Associated Press writers Marcus Wohlsen in Oakland; Nigel Duara in Portland, Ore.; Sarah Brumfield in Baltimore, Md.; Verena Dobnik and Samantha Gross in New York; Harry R. Weber, Errin Haines and Jeff Martin in Atlanta; Erica Niedowski in Providence, R.I.; Michael J. Crumb in Des Moines, Iowa; Ben Nuckols in Washington; and Jay Lindsay in Boston.

© 2011 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.
  • Enjoy this article? Help vote it up the 'Vine.

Back To Top | Front Page

Published to:

  • Terry Collins's Column, All of Newsvine
  • Groups: none
  • Regions: United States , San Francisco/Oakland/San Jose
  • Public Discussion (213)
Jump to discussion page: 1 2 3
American Dreams

Tensions would build as protesters edged ever closer to the police line and reach a breaking point with a demonstrator hurling a bottle or rock, prompting police to respond with another round of gas.

SO the protesters are pushing the envelope and are surprised they are getting their butts handed to them? Guess college doesn't teach about cause and effect.

  • 13 votes
#1 - Wed Oct 26, 2011 6:52 PM EDT
differnet

So, let me get this straight, you advocate violence against peaceful protest. And you call yourself American Dreams? Did you read the article you posted. A US veteran was critically wounded and you think this is good. I bet 10 to one, you never wore a uniform. Sorry, but you are probably a typical self-satisfied Conservative who passed up your opportunity to serve your country or considered yourself doing that by sitting behind a keyboard.

  • 19 votes
#1.1 - Wed Oct 26, 2011 7:16 PM EDT
greg-709692

And who threw the projectile, the Police ?

Sounds more like the protestors weren't concerned with who got hit, with all that rock and bottle throwing they did.

  • 9 votes
#1.2 - Wed Oct 26, 2011 7:39 PM EDT
greg81082-4115372

He might even be Ted Nugent.

  • 3 votes
#1.3 - Wed Oct 26, 2011 7:41 PM EDT
common sense-457836

Guess college doesn't teach about cause and effect.

Nope. It teaches you to have the courage of your convictions and not scatter like a spineless sheep when the going gets tough. Sounds like you'd be the first to give up your ideals no questions asked because someone yelled at you.

The cops can use violence and abuse all they want - the message won't be silenced.

  • 17 votes
#1.4 - Wed Oct 26, 2011 7:45 PM EDT
common sense-457836

And who threw the projectile, the Police ?

Yup. There's video. And then they shoot more projectiles at the people trying to help an injured veteran. Class act.

  • 13 votes
#1.5 - Wed Oct 26, 2011 7:46 PM EDT
FlNutmegger

And you would call this peaceful protesting? But tensions reached a boiling point after a sexual assault, a severe beating and a fire were reported and paramedics were denied access to the camp, according to city officials. They also cited concerns about rats, fire hazards and public urination. Nowhere is it indicated just how the Marine was injured he could have been the victim of the above beating. Peaceful protesting is your right but when you break the law expect to be taken down and if I read you correctly you would be out in front screaming about unreasonable force! YOU are not the solution YOU are the problem!

  • 9 votes
#1.6 - Wed Oct 26, 2011 7:49 PM EDT
beej mcl

fin, the evening news mentioned that the marine was hit with a smoke gernade.

  • 5 votes
#1.7 - Wed Oct 26, 2011 7:54 PM EDT
greg-709692

Video showing the head shot, Really ?

  • 4 votes
#1.8 - Wed Oct 26, 2011 8:00 PM EDT
FlNutmegger

beej mcl: Thanks for the info. I was not aware of that and it really is too bad that it happened but look for more because I think the unwritten rules for these folks is to push the envelope in the name of Civil Disobedience which covers a lot of sins!

  • 2 votes
#1.9 - Wed Oct 26, 2011 8:02 PM EDT
common sense-457836

'According to city officials' FINutmegger. In NYC they flat out lied about the sanitary conditions of the camp as pretext for an attempted removal.

To be honest I don't know the conditions there - but one statement from a source trying to spin events in order to justify brutality after the fact isn't enough for me to condemn them yet.

  • 9 votes
#1.10 - Wed Oct 26, 2011 8:07 PM EDT
common sense-457836

Video showing the head shot, Really ?

There's a lot of amateur video floating around. What's consistent between them is the protesters are attempting to protect themselves while the police keep firing in aggression. In one you can clearly see those attempting to help being fired on.

  • 9 votes
#1.11 - Wed Oct 26, 2011 8:09 PM EDT
Indepvoter

In Seattle these protester who do not have a clear message, have cost the city hundreds of thousands of dollars, enough is enough.

Occupy Seattle began with a protest at the Federal Building in downtown Seattle on September 26th, 2011 and camping at Westlake Park on October 1st. Westlake is primary site but some facilities are at Seattle City Hall.

According to a news report, the City of Seattle has spent an extra $104,869 as of October 14, 2011 in response to the protest for overtime pay for police and parks & recreation personnel.[4] Police overtime pay comprised the majority of overtime expenses at $97,200.[4]

Ten protesters were arrested for obstructing on the evening of October 13th after refusing to vacate Westlake Park after it had closed.[1] On October 15, the Occupy Seattle movement had its largest demonstration to date, with over 3,000 people rallying in Westlake Park.[5][6] On the morning of October 17, 2011, Seattle police informed campers at Westlake Park that tents had to be removed for city personnel to clean the park.[5] It was reported that during this incident six demonstrators whom didn't comply with the order were arrested.[5]

The city of Seattle issued permits for Occupy Seattle on October 18, 2011, which limits camping at Westlake Park and enforces the park's closure at 10:00 PM.[7] Another permit for protests occurring at Seattle's city hall plaza allows camping with the stipulation that tents are to be deconstructed by 7:00 AM.[7] It was reported that police are enforcing a rule in Westlake Park in which umbrellas are only allowed to be used while being held, and are not allowed to be used as tent-like shelters.[8]

  • 4 votes
#1.12 - Wed Oct 26, 2011 8:09 PM EDT
greg-709692

I read it was claimed he was hit by a rubber bullet . Oakland Police said they only used bean bag rounds.

As we watch tear gas erupt and men and women run back and forth across the frame, we suddenly hear a group of people calling for a medic. The man runs over to see them carrying what some are calling a veteran who has been shot in the face by the bean bag rounds. Some reports are stating he was hit by a rubber bullet but the police do claim they only used bean bag rounds.

    #1.13 - Wed Oct 26, 2011 8:17 PM EDT
    rose-231178

    This may be silly, but there seems to be "plants" in any protest by the people. It seems to me, that this protest is overall peaceful. That leaves "plants" and perhaps a few dissenters making problems. Those for the movement would not jeopardize it.

    Look at Walker talking to a supposed koch bro.

    • 7 votes
    #1.14 - Wed Oct 26, 2011 8:19 PM EDT
    DREW@HOOD.MIL

    Wheres the NATO planes and U.S. drones, to protect the protesters?

    • 3 votes
    #1.15 - Wed Oct 26, 2011 8:40 PM EDT
    mountainfirefall

    this reporter needs to get a job, cause this is the poorest attempt at spin i've seen in awhile.

    ast least most 'journalists' make a small attempt to be objective and THEN make thier opinion the story.

    this is false @!$%# and anyone who follows this, has watched the miles of video and listened to first hand stories and experiences... knows that the attack started at 4:30am most in the camp were sleeping, or what passes for sleep out in the elements..

    jesus.. just do your homework and then you won't have to apologize when you knee jerk emotionally respond out the ass.

    • 7 votes
    #1.16 - Wed Oct 26, 2011 8:54 PM EDT
    jacqlyn

    All this is very wrong....................

    • 2 votes
    #1.17 - Wed Oct 26, 2011 10:41 PM EDT
    jacqlyn

    Protestes

      #1.18 - Wed Oct 26, 2011 11:19 PM EDT
      james ca.

      Tensions would build as protesters edged ever closer to the police line and reach a breaking point with a demonstrator hurling a bottle or rock, prompting police to respond with another round of gas.

      Proof please? Video perhaps? No? Why not? Police film everything from multiple POV's. Media was present to the 10'th degree, and even more people had cameras & cell phones filming the entire event. Please show your video of OWS Protesters throwing glass bottles, eggs or rocks at the Police... Pretty please?

      There is ample evidence the police were in the wrong, there is a reason we have vid of police violince and not protester violence. OPD even tried to claim they don't have flashbang gernades on hand at all, that they simply do not have them in their inventory and that the sounds were m-80's being thrown at the police. After the vid emerged of the cop clearing throwing a gernade at the people trying to assist Scott Olsen after they shot him in the face with a projectile fracturing his skull putting him in critical condition, OPD changed their story, now saying they themselves do not deploy such tactics, but surrounding forces who were called in to assist in crowd control do and must have been the ones who deployed them. They were caught lying.

      The proof is in the pudding, notice that once Scott Olsen goes down and people attempt to assist him, how an officer casually tosses a flash-bang gernade at them for no good reason - according to the Oakland Mayor, there will be a Federal investigation of the incident too (Scott Olsen being shot in the head and then being attacked a second time while people are trying to assist him with medical help):

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZLyUK0t0vQ&feature=player_embedded

      Here's another kat who was shot in the head by OPD with a "less than lethal" weapon meant to be used during riots and violent behavior where leathal force would otherwise have to be used to calm the situation.

      • 3 votes
      #1.19 - Thu Oct 27, 2011 12:00 AM EDT
      james ca.

      I read it was claimed he was hit by a rubber bullet . Oakland Police said they only used bean bag rounds.

      Oakland Police are lying pigs, I know this from first hand experience, not just from what I have read. Once it became clear such a lie would not pass anybodies lie-o-meter, OPD Chief of Police changed his story to 'Oakland Police don't use such projectiles, but other departments from other cities who we asked to assist us in crowd control do, and must have - but it wasn't us'

      Here is an interview of the Oakland Mayor and the Police Chief this afternoon:

      http://www.ktvu.com/video/29598240/index.html

      • 3 votes
      #1.20 - Thu Oct 27, 2011 1:11 AM EDT
      ZeroX

      This is what OWS wanted. Flash and bang. So they got it. The Left’s behaviors have been degenerate but I cannot say I am not surprised. Why they cannot enunciate their issues clearly and respectfully. This behavior is a result of the liberal methods, indoctrination, and propaganda. The real shame of the OWS movement is the people that lead them there and encouraged their disruptive behavior. Misleading young and confused minds is not difficult, but there is a responsibility to truth that is being ignored, and these unwashed followers are being used as cannon fodder for the socialist agenda.

      They are all misfits wanting to belong; to make a difference; to be a part of something. Because they have been such losers their whole life and never been part of any religious faith that put their lives in perspective. It was the same people back then. In addition, the OWS nuts are simply the misfits of THIS generation

      • 2 votes
      #1.21 - Thu Oct 27, 2011 1:18 AM EDT
      performance396Deleted
      james ca.

      Here is an interview of the Oakland Mayor and the Police Chief this afternoon:

      http://www.ktvu.com/video/29598240/index.html

      They broke up the interview, be sure to watch the other parts of the interview including the Police chief at the same site!

      • 3 votes
      #1.23 - Thu Oct 27, 2011 1:29 AM EDT
      james ca.

      Yup. There's video. And then they shoot more projectiles at the people trying to help an injured veteran. Class act.

      Let's see that video. Or is this dreaming on your part?

      More like a nightmare :( and all too real. Check out the sailor in uniform facing off the scared lill piggies so afraid of the big bad wolf pack of peaceful protesters!?! That sailor had no fear!!! Didn't even flinch at the flash bangs and tear gas!!! Amazing!!! Also amazing in a sickening way, is how the police attack people attempting to assist the fallen soldier Scott Olsen who is now possibly going to be the first person to be killed at an OWS protest - Scott Olsen is now in critical condition in a hospital on a respirator. Scott Olsen served two tours in Iraq, but was taken down peacefully protesting, expressing his first amendment rights: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZLyUK0t0vQ&feature=player_embedded

      • 4 votes
      #1.24 - Thu Oct 27, 2011 1:43 AM EDT
      james ca.

      BTW, Scott Olsen has a two inch fracture in his skull and may need serious surgery to deal with it. He is on a respirator in critical condition. I doubt "Bean bags" cause fractured skulls.

      • 3 votes
      #1.25 - Thu Oct 27, 2011 1:52 AM EDT
      james ca.

      This is what OWS wanted. Flash and bang. So they got it. The Left’s behaviors have been degenerate but I cannot say I am not surprised. Why they cannot enunciate their issues clearly and respectfully.

      That is a bold faced lie, even reporters who were in the crowd the whole time at OWS Oakland, Ca were quick to comment on how peaceful the protesters were yesterday and the night Scott Olsen and others where shot in the head with tear gas, flash bangs & rubber bullets, including the Police throwing flash/gas bangs at the people attempting to assist Scott Olsen after he falls to the ground.

      The Police, greatly ashamed of being caught in such despicable behavior, have disappeared from the protest tonight - which includes up to two thousand people marching around Oakland right now this evening and they will be out all night long, there are no police in riot gear tonight. There are even very few police in general, it's hard to spot one there are so few - and guess what!?! No violence. The only violence was instigated by the Police. W/o their presence and subsequent actions, no violence occurs. No vandalizing. Nothing. Just peaceful protesting.

      • 3 votes
      #1.26 - Thu Oct 27, 2011 1:57 AM EDT
      performance396Deleted
      performance396Deleted
      RebootIt

      The Left’s behaviors have been degenerate but I cannot say I am not surprised.

      Get a clue. OWS is not a left movment. We're independants who are sick of both parties being in bed with Wallstreet.

      • 1 vote
      #1.29 - Thu Oct 27, 2011 2:58 AM EDT
      james ca.

      Yes it will if rocks and bottles are thrown and cars are overturned and shop windows are broken in and looted. Peaceful demonstrations don't give you the right to do any of that. Once that line gets crossed, all bets are off.

      None of that happened!!!

      Besides, I have a hard time thinking anything can occur peacefully in Oakland, so it doesn't surprise me at all that the riot police were on hand. Maybe Governor Moonbeam has finally gotten a clue.

      Talk about player hating!!! At least one thousand up to two thousand protesters are marching through Oakland right now past midnight. There are no riot Police with tear gas standing by, there are very few police in general, and there is no violence, no vandalism. Your perception of OWS Oakland is very tainted.

      • 2 votes
      #1.30 - Thu Oct 27, 2011 3:10 AM EDT
      performance396Deleted
      performance396Deleted
      james ca.

      It's Thur morn. OWS Oakland CA protesters reoccupied their area, stayed all night (obviously past the 10PM curfew for first amendment expression given by the Oakland Mayor) AND Oakland Police seriously backed off, did not suit up in riot gear, did not call in Police from a ton of other depts & there were no Police barricades as there were Tues night in Downtown Oakland. Oakland Police made no attempt to disperse the crowd out of extreme shame for their previous nights actions including possibly killing an Iraq War Vet for doing nothing more than commiting a non-violent misdemeanor. AND THERE WAS NO VIOLENCE FROM THE CROWD EVEN THOUGH THEY MARCHED AROUND OAKLAND THROUGHOUT THE NIGHT UNCHECKED, AND STAYED IN THE AREA THEY HAD BEEN FORCED OUT OF ON TUES NIGHT WITH TEARGAS, RUBBER BULLETS, FLASH BANG GRENADES AND A CLEAR DISTASTE FOR CITIZENS EXPRESSING THEIR FIRST AMENDMENT RIGHTS WHILE COMMITTING NON-VIOLENT LOW LEVEL MISDEMEANORS .

      Proof that it was the Police who escalated the situation and not the protesters, the protesters were only trying to do what they peacefully did last night, it was the police who entered violence & tension & "less than lethal" potentially lethal force into play - not the peaceful OWS Oakland Ca protesters.

      • 3 votes
      #1.33 - Thu Oct 27, 2011 9:47 AM EDT
      james ca.

      Here's a short interview of the Sailor seen in the video where Scott Olsen has his head cracked open by a Police projectile. The Sailor was facing off the Police, in uniform, holding a flag, as the Police cowardly attacked the OWS Protesters with potentially lethal force.

      Original vid: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZLyUK0t0vQ&feature=player_embedded

      Interview: http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=nZQMHo4I6xg

      • 3 votes
      #1.34 - Thu Oct 27, 2011 10:58 AM EDT
      common sense-457836

      Why they cannot enunciate their issues clearly and respectfully.

      How have they not been clear or respectful? Every incident of violence since the protests began has been initiated by the state, not one by the protesters themselves.

      They are all misfits wanting to belong; to make a difference; to be a part of something. Because they have been such losers their whole life and never been part of any religious faith that put their lives in perspective.

      This is being respectful? This is discussing issues?

      From 0 to hypocrite in under 3 sentences. Incredible.

      • 2 votes
      #1.35 - Thu Oct 27, 2011 3:15 PM EDT
      performance396Deleted
      common sense-457836

      The Mayor of Oakland had reports that bottles were thrown and assaults by protestors were made. That's why they were called in in the first place.

      So they were called in to address a situation in which they were already involved even though by definition calling them in means they weren't there? How do you explain the numerous photographs showing the police taking their time to organize and assemble in formations unmolested if they were already being 'assaulted'?

      Why are you falling back on 'but the Mayor said so' when there is direct video evidence?

      Do you have anything but hearsay and gut feelings at all?

      • 3 votes
      #1.37 - Thu Oct 27, 2011 7:49 PM EDT
      Auto 101

      That is all you have.

        #1.38 - Thu Oct 27, 2011 7:50 PM EDT
        performance396Deleted
        common sense-457836

        No, the burden is on you and the Mayor to prove there was a situation which warranted the response given.

        The only facts we know is the riot police perpetrated an organized attack on the camp while they were sleeping. Until there is some proof that justifies that action, we have to assume it was unjustified and unprovoked.

        This was not an act of self defense by the police, it's ludicrous for you or anyone else to actually try to claim that.

        • 1 vote
        #1.40 - Fri Oct 28, 2011 4:28 PM EDT
        james ca.

        This was not an act of self defense by the police, it's ludicrous for you or anyone else to actually try to claim that.

        Here is proof it was not self defense. It's crazy they didn't assume someone would have recorded it!?! The police use a bullhorn to tell the crowd they are illegally assembled and must go home, and if they do not "chemical agents WILL be used", they then use chemical agents (along with rubber bullets, flash bangs and bean bags) to disperse the peacefully resisting protesters who refused to leave when told to, a misdemeanor at most. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nM3GgZTPYiA

        Here is live News coverage as it happened with two separate reports from two different reporters in different places amongst the peaceful protesters who concur with the police bullhorn version of events given in above video, along with a sky view from a helicopter of the event as it went down. OPD still claims they did not use rubber bullets and flash bangs. Live accounts of the event do not agree. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7r2ETi5C1A

        I imagine these vids will be used in a trial where Oakland police are prosecuted for their apparent crimes.

        • 2 votes
        #1.41 - Fri Oct 28, 2011 8:46 PM EDT
        performance396Deleted
        MONEY-is-funDeleted
        Reply
        Rixar13

        "Across the country we're seeing a wide range of reactions," he said. "For now we're hoping the city will work with us."

        Rogue Cops will not stop the movement and I plan another visit to Tampa park.... wink ;-)

        Even as an old Vietnam Veteran, I've still got some fight left in me...

        • 10 votes
        Reply#2 - Wed Oct 26, 2011 7:41 PM EDT
        petridishofideas

        I'm with ya.....Rixart.

        • 5 votes
        #2.1 - Wed Oct 26, 2011 7:46 PM EDT
        Indepvoter

        If I were a supporter, how would I know? I can't figure out the message. If I were a supporter, what should I do? Buy something, boycott something, elect someone? Sleep in a park?

        I think many of us are unhappy with government. Right, Left and Independents.. What is the call to action, what do we do?

        Cost my city money by sleeping in the park, doesn't seem to work for me.

        • 6 votes
        #2.2 - Wed Oct 26, 2011 8:47 PM EDT
        Little Sure Shot

        If protesters want to throw bottles, rocks, and paint at the cops like the ones in Oakland did, they had better be prepared for the cops to show force.

        • 2 votes
        #2.3 - Thu Oct 27, 2011 12:28 AM EDT
        james ca.

        If protesters want to throw bottles, rocks, and paint at the cops like the ones in Oakland did, they had better be prepared for the cops to show force.

        So you have the video of bottles, rocks and paint being thrown at Police? Or are you just taking Police word for it? They were already caught in a lie saying flash bang grenades were not used, until vid popped up, then OPD changed their story saying they themselves do not use such tactics, but one of the dept they called in from another city does and they are the ones who used the weapons against peaceful protesters.

        The event was filmed by Police, Media, protesters and bystanders from many POV's. If such activity occurred, there would be ample video of it, at least by the Police - that's why there is so much video of peaceful protesters being injured by projectiles as it happened, because of the massive camera presence. If there were rocks & glass bottles being thrown at the Police, there would be video proof, and there is none.

        • 3 votes
        #2.4 - Thu Oct 27, 2011 12:38 AM EDT
        Reply
        Gorgon-891617

        Sic 'em! Sic 'em. Good, doggies. Now take the doggies to the pound to be euthanized since they are biters (and are in a union).

        When will the police realize that every "order" is not necessarily a legal order?

        • 4 votes
        Reply#3 - Wed Oct 26, 2011 7:44 PM EDT
        Mandy-2148207

        When will you realize that protesting is a RIGHT that is guaranteed to the American Public.

        • 1 vote
        #3.1 - Wed Oct 26, 2011 8:20 PM EDT
        Reply
        xrayspex

        The Oakland protestors seem to be the exception, and thankfully not the rule. They lost any support they might have had from me when they acted like punk a$$ thugs to news crews trying to provide media coverage , not to mention the BULL$H*T of denying paramedic access and property destruction. That all goes way beyond the right of peaceful protest and assembly, which I will always strongly support !!

        • 6 votes
        Reply#4 - Wed Oct 26, 2011 7:48 PM EDT
        onomatopoeia

        Unnerved or unhinged? ... Right, they were already unhinged.

        • 2 votes
        Reply#5 - Wed Oct 26, 2011 7:53 PM EDT
        silverhawk63

        SO the cops where supossed to ignore the sexual assult that was reported and when OWS toads push out paramedics from responding to a person in need thats just free speech? Really?

        • 6 votes
        Reply#6 - Wed Oct 26, 2011 7:53 PM EDT
        fight for freedom-2341533

        Well I knew this was coming that the corporate owned gov't would send in their police to run the protesters out. The Oakland protesters reaction does not suprise me and have hurt the movement. However I still support the movement and what happened in Atlanta was an injustice to Americans. Where are you now Obama? It is ok when other Muslim dominated countries prostesters act far more aggressively but it is not acceptable when Americans occupy or protest in front of government buildings? You are a coward Obama and a disgrace to your party. Hell both the Reps and the Dems leadership is a a cowardly group of corporate owned puppets. This will not stop the movement but clarify to the American people just how corrupt hypocritcal and cowardly our goverment leaders are.

        • 3 votes
        Reply#7 - Wed Oct 26, 2011 7:58 PM EDT
        Annie-637703

        Fight for freedom, So now the rubber meets the road and it is starting to get ugly, what did you expect. The majority of Americans are in favor of the protesters and I am proud of my fellow Americans that have taken a stand for the 99ers. I am a retired social worker and also grew up during the 1960's not far from Oakland, Ca.. I guess my question is what is it you expect the President to do? President Obama is doing his part as he is out telling the American public about how unfair this economy is today. I think it was today that he was talking about the student loans that he used his executive power to put out. I understand your anger as I am truly pissed off also. No one said that this movement would be easy, fun or safe. You should be thankful that the dogs have not been brought in yet or the National Guard. The movement is not suppose to be a picnic as it is a movement. The people need to practice peaceful protest and know that everyone is watching and contacting their political lawmakers. I have seen many protest over time in Oakland and although this was bad, it could have been worst. The protesters need to police themselves very carefully in order to rid out the trouble makers as that will cost the good will established between main street America and the Occupy patriots. Oakland Cops have always been hard and tough, but they have had lots of experience that have made them that way. Thank God no dogs or hoses. God Bless and keep all Americans safe.

        • 1 vote
        #7.1 - Thu Oct 27, 2011 1:17 AM EDT
        Super Ultra

        I hope people keep taping and tape everything you can. That way it becomes harder for the cops to claim violence on the part of people they brutalize. I think the cops are being told simply to clear them out and stop their protesting, and if they can make up a reason to do it, they will. If you see someone at a protest committing a crime, arrest THEM. Don't go balls out on the whole crowd with riot gear. Of course now they're dipping deep into the law books to find archaic laws they can charge people with just to get rid of them. Way to quash the first amendment.

        • 1 vote
        #7.2 - Fri Oct 28, 2011 7:46 AM EDT
        Reply
        imsewvainDeleted
        Kathy Stuart

        I would have to see video of protesters throwing things and provoking the fight before I would believe it. You know why, because there is no evidence of the other "inappropriate" behavior on the part of the protesters that was mentioned in this article, only the BS that keeps being passed around by the right. You know the TPty types who found protesters with automatic weapons and pictures of Obama with a bone through his nose were Patriots but the protesters are commie hippies. I am sure that is how Mr Olsen was describing himself on the front-line in Iraq.

        There is a video of the wounded Mr Olsen on the ground, bleeding from the head and when several people went to his aid, a cop standing a few feed away tossed a flash bang at them. I did not see any provocation of the part of those concerned people when they were attacked by OPD.

        • 4 votes
        #9 - Wed Oct 26, 2011 8:08 PM EDT
        fight for freedom-2341533

        Kathy You bring up an important point that I did not raise in my post. We don't know what really happened in Oakland. The person carrying the Ak 47 was not substantiated nor any of the other claims police had. I suppose you have to look at the past performance of governments and what they do to suppress protest. One method is to send in people to disrupt and cause problems to give them justification to go in and use force to break them up. This has happened and may be a possible explanation. In NY the police did not allow any of the other protesters to help a young woman who gave no provocation to the officer who sprayed pepper spray in her eyes. She was actually walking away from him. I just read an article that 8 ofthe NYPD officers have been caught gunrunning. The more the police show how corrupt and violent they are the more they will empower this movement.

        Corporate America had better watch out because we are a armed country and not all of our military boys will take kindly to one of their own war vetrans being hit by a tear gas canister.

        • 3 votes
        #9.1 - Wed Oct 26, 2011 8:51 PM EDT
        Auto 101

        I just watched one seed that showed protesters trowing rocks a police before he went down.

        • 4 votes
        #9.2 - Wed Oct 26, 2011 9:43 PM EDT
        fight for freedom-2341533

        Auto 101 Can you provide this seed? Does it show this as a response to police aggression or the result of protesters starting the aggression. Was it one individual or many? Without some clear proof it really is all up for question. Also are you aware that there is a check mark in the top bar where you enter your comment that will correct spelling mistakes?

          #9.3 - Wed Oct 26, 2011 10:04 PM EDT
          Auto 101

          bar where you enter your comment that will correct spelling

          What are you going to give me a grade? I Received my education with 100% attendance and a 4.0 and can get a job any where any time.

          http://minnesotaindependent.com/90763/video-wisconsin-native-and-iraq-war-vet-critically-injured-by-police-in-occupy-oakland-protest

          Does it show this as a response to police aggression or the result of protesters starting the aggression

          No one has shown any thing that says who started it this just shows they are trowing tear gas back and what look like rocks.

            #9.4 - Wed Oct 26, 2011 10:17 PM EDT
            fight for freedom-2341533

            Auto 101 thanks for the information. Oh I was not giving a grade. I am a terrible speller and just thought you might not know about the check spelling option.

            • 1 vote
            #9.5 - Wed Oct 26, 2011 10:45 PM EDT
            Little Sure Shot

            Kathy, I saw on local news tonight shots of a cop covered in red paint courtesy of the protesters. While paint is not lethal, it is still considered assault upon a law enforcement official.

            • 3 votes
            #9.6 - Thu Oct 27, 2011 12:30 AM EDT
            james ca.

            Auto, your vid only shows gas canisters being thrown back at police, no rocks - you are seeing what you want to see.

            • 2 votes
            #9.7 - Thu Oct 27, 2011 12:47 AM EDT
            james ca.

            Kathy, I saw on local news tonight shots of a cop covered in red paint courtesy of the protesters. While paint is not lethal, it is still considered assault upon a law enforcement official.

            What station so I can go to their website to see the footage? What day & time did it occur? Was it in the moments leading to the near lethal injuring of a peaceful protester who's only crime was at most a non-violent misdemeanor? If true, do you really conclude that the whole crowd should be treated like a single person rather than removing individual trouble makers as they arise?

            • 2 votes
            #9.8 - Thu Oct 27, 2011 12:55 AM EDT
            RebootIt

            Kathy, I saw on local news tonight shots of a cop covered in red paint courtesy of the protesters. While paint is not lethal, it is still considered assault upon a law enforcement official.

            That happened in Greece not the US.

            http://news.yahoo.com/photos/greek-debt-unrest-1309284105-slideshow/greek-riot-police-officers-covered-red-paint-thrown-photo-182003134.html

            • 2 votes
            #9.9 - Thu Oct 27, 2011 3:11 AM EDT
            Auto 101

            Yes the police just look for excuses to hurt people.

            • 2 votes
            #9.10 - Thu Oct 27, 2011 3:12 AM EDT
            james ca.

            I would have to see video of protesters throwing things and provoking the fight before I would believe it.

            Here's news footage/coverage from Russian Television of the OWS Oakland, Ca. protest where Scott Olsen was seriously injured (he has now undergone surgery to relieve swelling of the brain). In the news report, they give both; the claim by Police that dangerous objects were being thrown at them; and the fact that no evidence to back up such accusations has been produced by anybody - such as video of protesters attacking police in any way:

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6blAR1Zjcb8&NR=1

            • 1 vote
            #9.11 - Thu Oct 27, 2011 12:37 PM EDT
            Auto 101

            I think the police should use live ammo instead of rubber and tear gas. :<) that would be fun to watch:<). That would be less violent right.

              #9.12 - Thu Oct 27, 2011 12:41 PM EDT
              FlNutmegger

              I find it very interesting that "The Thin Blue Line" who's mandate it is is "To Protect & Serve" is automatically the enemy when a mob is involved and yet are the first to be called when an individual has been harmed by a criminal. They are not the enemy, folks, unless you put them into the unsavory position of being that while you break the laws of society that we all live under. The injured party, while unfortunate, was indeed a part of this mob mentality and as a military man knew the dangers that he was facing. I wish him a full and speedy recovery anyway!

                #9.13 - Thu Oct 27, 2011 1:11 PM EDT
                james ca.

                They are not the enemy, folks,...

                Tell that to the Police! This kid who was also shot in the head that night says it well: http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=ibG0GUIiZs4

                Protesters are carrying signs and chanting slogans about/to the police such as, "we are you, you are us", and "you are part of the 99% too" along with others very similar.

                • 2 votes
                #9.14 - Thu Oct 27, 2011 1:33 PM EDT
                FlNutmegger

                Protesters are carrying signs and chanting slogans about/to the police such as, "we are you, you are us", and "you are part of the 99% too" along with others very similar.

                Would you have expected those Police Officers to have laid down their arms and joined in what has already been described as Misdemeanor Illegal activities?? Their oaths demand of them that they enforce the laws no matter how you would seek to diminish either their activities or the fact that the law was being broken. There is a law against illegal assembly which also was being broken by each and every individual in that mob! You have legal redress against what you might consider a bad law but it has to be in the courts or through the revocation of that law by the authorities! When you (broad you here) take the law into your own hands then expect a response which you might not like! I might just add here that the headline of this story is total;y moisleading and provocative in that it makes the Police look to be out of hand without a word concerning the mob rule in evidence. I Might also add that if you decide that you are going to go against the rules of Law & Order that you are hopelessly outgunned here!

                  #9.15 - Thu Oct 27, 2011 1:46 PM EDT
                  james ca.

                  Would you have expected those Police Officers to have laid down their arms and joined in what has already been described as Misdemeanor Illegal activities??

                  Yes. If I was ordered to use such force against peaceful protesters, I would refuse such orders.

                  Their oaths demand of them that they enforce the laws no matter how you would seek to diminish either their activities or the fact that the law was being broken.

                  Care to site police protocol which states that it's ok to use excessive force?

                  • 2 votes
                  #9.16 - Thu Oct 27, 2011 9:08 PM EDT
                  Auto 101

                  Care to site police protocol which states that it's ok to use excessive force?

                  As a cop told me it is excessive force until you have a hole in your chest.

                    #9.17 - Thu Oct 27, 2011 9:26 PM EDT
                    Super Ultra

                    With so many stories of police brutality, abuse of power, and outright murder of civilians, I tend to look upon most police officers as little more than the biggest gang in America. This isn't doing much to make me feel differently. They do the dirty work for the higher ups not realizing that when things go wrong, and suits are filed, they'll be the first thrown under the bus.

                    • 1 vote
                    #9.18 - Fri Oct 28, 2011 7:52 AM EDT
                    Auto 101

                    tend to look upon most police officers as little more than the biggest gang in America.

                    Have you ever seen what they deal with every day?

                      #9.19 - Fri Oct 28, 2011 4:14 PM EDT
                      Reply
                      Jim44

                      "Yes, we're afraid. Is this the night they're going to sneak in?"

                      Sneak in? They told them to leave .... They did not sneak in ... The article is an attempt to get sympathy for actions that were illegal... Now its you choice if you want to support law breakers or not!!

                      "Is this the night they might use unreasonable force?" he asked

                      Or the night we throw paint at them and call them pigs? What ever....

                      When will people learn who really are the OWS folks?

                      Lets see it had to go all the way to tear gas in Oakland and Atlanta..

                      Which Tea Party event did they use Tear Gas? I seem to remember NONE! But the Progressives told us they (Tea Party folks) were the aggressive (guns and all) and violent ones...Yet there have been over 2000 OWS supporters arrested ..Tea Party = ZERO .. The Math sucks if you want to believe that the Tea Party is Violent and the OWS is Passive...

                      But ... Do the Progressives care? My guess NO! This is what they want!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

                      ...

                      • 3 votes
                      Reply#10 - Wed Oct 26, 2011 8:10 PM EDT
                      common sense-457836

                      Now its you choice if you want to support law breakers or not!!

                      Do you believe that all laws are just simply by nature of being law?

                      Which Tea Party event did they use Tear Gas?

                      You need to ask yourself which of these movements represents an actual threat to the establishment and then consider the respective responses.

                      • 2 votes
                      #10.1 - Wed Oct 26, 2011 8:27 PM EDT
                      rose-231178

                      Did not mean to vote you up #10, but did mean to comment. Tea Party members are joining the 99 percent because they got hi-jacked early on by koch dick. Those people that wanted a voice, but realized they had none.

                      Taxes may be a differing point but over all, but many of those people do not-repeat, do NOT-want a corrupt government. Our gov't has been bought.

                      If the following were enacted, perhaps we would not be having this discussion.

                      A thought, constitutional amendment that may help Congress focus on the people...This is going around face book. If seeder see's no value, delete.

                      Warren Buffett, "I could end the deficit in 5 minutes," he told CNBC. "You just pass a law that says that anytime there is a deficit of more than 3% of GDP, all
                      sitting members of Congress are ineligible for re-election. The 26th
                      amendment (granting the right to vote for 18 year-olds) took only 3 months
                      & 8 days to be ratified! Why? Simple! The people demanded it. That was in
                      1971...before computers, e-mail, cell phones, etc. Of the 27 amendments to
                      the Constitution, seven (7) took 1 year or less to become the law of the
                      land...all because of public pressure.

                      Warren Buffet is asking each addressee to forward this email to a minimum of
                      twenty people on their address list; in turn ask each of those to do
                      likewise.
                      In three days, most people in The United States of America will have the
                      message. This is one idea that really should be passed around.

                      *Congressional Reform Act of 2011*

                      1. No Tenure / No Pension. A Congressman collects a salary while in office
                      and receives no pay when they are out of office.

                      2. Congress (past, present & future) participates in Social Security. All
                      funds in the Congressional retirement fund move to the Social Security
                      system immediately. All future funds flow into the Social Security system,
                      and Congress participates with the American people. It may not be used for
                      any other purpose.

                      3. Congress can purchase their own retirement plan, just as all Americans
                      do.

                      4. Congress will no longer vote themselves a pay raise. Congressional pay
                      will rise by the lower of CPI or 3%.

                      5. Congress loses their current health care system and participates in the
                      same health care system as the American people.

                      6. Congress must equally abide by all laws they impose on the American
                      people.

                      7. All contracts with past and present Congressmen are void effective 1/1/12.
                      The American people did not make this contract with Congressmen. Congressmen
                      made all these contracts for themselves. Serving in Congress is an honor,
                      not a career. The Founding Fathers envisioned citizen legislators, so ours
                      should serve their term's), then go home and back to work.

                      If each person contacts a minimum of twenty people then it will only take
                      three days for most people (in the U.S.) to receive the message. Maybe it is
                      time.

                      THIS IS HOW YOU FIX CONGRESS!!!!! If you agree with the above, pass it on.

                      • 4 votes
                      #10.2 - Wed Oct 26, 2011 8:39 PM EDT
                      Jim44

                      Do you believe that all laws are just simply by nature of being law?

                      No, but I do believe that they be followed until changed! Because they are the LAW!

                      You need to ask yourself which of these movements represents an actual threat to the establishment and then consider the respective responses.

                      You mean the ones that cleaned up after themselves ..waved American Flags then...went home and went back to work ? Or the ones that it takes tear gas to stop them, and get them to follow the orders of the Police?

                      YOU TELL ME!!!!!!!

                      • 2 votes
                      #10.3 - Wed Oct 26, 2011 9:18 PM EDT
                      Jim44

                      Did not mean to vote you up #10, but did mean to comment. Tea Party members are joining the 99 percent because they got hi-jacked early on by koch dick. Those people that wanted a voice, but realized they had none.

                      Interesting You seem to like to point out the money on the Right but do you acknowledge George Soros and his money on the Left?

                      And just what makes you think you are the smartest person in the room? Other than Liberals on Newsvine know one knows who the hell the Koch brothers are.. Its a great talking point... But give some proof... I can PROVE Soros gave millions to Media Matter, Huffington Post, Think Progress and many more through his foundation...Then add the Money he gives to the Tides Foundation to multiply his footprint...

                      Please PROVE the Koch brothers have spent one penny on Tea Party events..Then if you really want to compare...

                      the 99% no such thing LOL

                      I would be glad to... Big money from Soro's VS big money from the Koch's... Do you really want to play?

                      Soros made $7 Billion dollars last year... how did you do?

                        #10.4 - Wed Oct 26, 2011 9:28 PM EDT
                        Jim44

                        Warren Buffett, "I could end the deficit in 5 minutes," he told CNBC. "You just pass a law that says that anytime there is a deficit of more than 3% of GDP, all

                        Link to it Please...

                          #10.5 - Wed Oct 26, 2011 9:31 PM EDT
                          greg81082-4115372

                          Oh waaah.. The tea party is a failure and OWS is making headway.

                          It's like those students at Kent State had a lot of nerve stopping the bullets' paths while they were standing around doing nothing.

                          • 1 vote
                          #10.6 - Wed Oct 26, 2011 9:41 PM EDT
                          fight for freedom-2341533

                          Rose great post and I will pass it on.Congressional Reform Act 2011.

                            #10.7 - Wed Oct 26, 2011 10:16 PM EDT
                            common sense-457836

                            No, but I do believe that they be followed until changed! Because they are the LAW!

                            Do you think protests are a reasonable way to affect large scale change? If not, could you point to some historical instances in which large scale change was achieved without broad social movements?

                            You mean the ones that cleaned up after themselves ..waved American Flags then...went home and went back to work ?

                            OWS sites are extremely clean but that's besides the point. What you're describing are sheep. Hence why no reaction from the state. Everyone recognized it as a bunch of meaningless flag waving that would ultimately have no effect on the status quo. Even the participants.

                            • 1 vote
                            #10.8 - Wed Oct 26, 2011 11:31 PM EDT
                            Reply
                            Peter-2556560

                            Being hostile does not help anybody, it puts a lot of people in harm's way and that goes for both sides.

                            • 2 votes
                            Reply#11 - Wed Oct 26, 2011 8:15 PM EDT
                            greg81082-4115372

                            Huh? It's the OWS fault for beating billy clubs with their heads and hogging all the tear gas?

                            The first amendment gives an unalienable right for public protest. All of you anti-OWS folks should just ignore what's going on since you obviously have no dog in the fight

                            Watch Fox News, take your Valium and complain about the drug addled hippies at OWS.

                            Your flag decal won't get you in to heaven any more.

                            • 3 votes
                            #11.1 - Wed Oct 26, 2011 10:18 PM EDT
                            suz-3786636

                            Could be they let a few out of jail and mixed them in the protesters. What? Happens?

                              #11.2 - Wed Oct 26, 2011 10:42 PM EDT
                              Reply
                              Paul-3964318

                              When the police tell you to move, you move, or the police will move you with whatever force is necessary. These people really do need to give it up and stop provoking the police. No one's paying attention any longer. it's on the back pages of most newspapers if there at all.

                              • 5 votes
                              Reply#12 - Wed Oct 26, 2011 8:17 PM EDT
                              Indepvoter

                              They couldn't come up with a message anyone could understand. For a second I was on their side. But it just kept getting weirder.

                              In Seattle this has cost the city 104K up to Oct 16th.

                              • 5 votes
                              #12.1 - Wed Oct 26, 2011 8:23 PM EDT
                              common sense-457836

                              it's on the back pages of most newspapers if there at all.

                              How did you find this story? It's the leading story on this site. Or did you some how flip to the back pages of Newsvine and dig it up?

                              • 1 vote
                              #12.2 - Wed Oct 26, 2011 8:29 PM EDT
                              Brettay

                              Go re-read the First Amendment.

                              Better yet, I'll post a synopsis for you here so you have no excuse. Pay attention to the bold parts:

                              The First Amendment (Amendment I) to the United States Constitution is part of the Bill of Rights. The amendment prohibits the making of any law respecting an establishment of religion, impeding the free exercise of religion, abridging the freedom of speech, infringing on the freedom of the press, interfering with the right to peaceably assemble or prohibiting the petitioning for a governmental redress of grievances.

                              • 4 votes
                              #12.3 - Wed Oct 26, 2011 8:41 PM EDT
                              Annie-637703

                              Paul, You really should start reading the paper front to back instead of back to front and you will find that the Occupy movement is all over the front pages of the newspapers and all over the Tv news. I am a somebody and I am in complete support of the Occupy protesters. Just look at how already they are making a difference and have America talking. Again learn how to read the paper and you might learn something.

                              • 2 votes
                              #12.4 - Thu Oct 27, 2011 2:03 AM EDT
                              Reply
                              wayne-3333

                              and now they want their student loans forgiven as well. What a bunch of cronic spoiled brats.

                              http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/45040659/ns/us_news-life/

                              • 6 votes
                              Reply#13 - Wed Oct 26, 2011 8:28 PM EDT
                              Super Ultra

                              All that money going to the economy and not to a bank that's already hoarding assets? Might not be such a crazy idea after all.

                                #13.1 - Fri Oct 28, 2011 7:59 AM EDT
                                Reply
                                South Bay

                                To me greediness is good and necessary because it is a mechanism to move us forward. It's bad and causes problems when greedy people go over limit (you get sick when you eat too much.) Protesting against the rich is ridiculous because everybody has the right to get rich. Rich people exploit, rip you off, and your government sides with them (they buy government) then you must protest against your government.

                                Before our economic tanked working class people were not too much dissatisfied because government had money for the social programs. The middle class felt prosper and happy with what they had. Now the working and middle classes are getting poorer, rich people are getting richer, and government has no right solutions for their problems. So they must revolt. This happened in the past and it happens now because the so called the "equality scale" has tipped too much. Maintain a balanced scale is not an easy task.

                                • 3 votes
                                Reply#14 - Wed Oct 26, 2011 8:28 PM EDT
                                Super Ultra

                                Thing is, corporations have bought and paid for our government. They're practically the same thing now.

                                • 1 vote
                                #14.1 - Fri Oct 28, 2011 8:00 AM EDT
                                Reply
                                Brettay

                                Mayor Stephanie Rawlings-Blake said. "I support their right to free speech but we also have rules and laws."

                                Um, Ms. Mayor, you need to re-read the First Amendment, which clearly states that no laws supercede it. Free speech, the right to peacefully assemble, and the right to petition the government for redress of wrongs is all covered in the first amendment.

                                You have NO legal grounds to stop this.

                                • 4 votes
                                Reply#15 - Wed Oct 26, 2011 8:38 PM EDT
                                Jim44

                                Um, Ms. Mayor, you need to re-read the First Amendment, which clearly states that no laws supercede it. Free speech, the right to peacefully assemble, and the right to petition the government for redress of wrongs is all covered in the first amendment.

                                You might want to understand that "free speech" and "freedom of assembly" has LIMITS! You can't yell fire in a theater or just assemble in the middle of a street!

                                I do like the fact that you pointed out that the 1st Amendment says that the government can not ESTABLISH a religion... yet its now used to restrict the expression of religion.... Are you willing to STAND UP against this transgression? Using the 1st Amendment to restrict free expression of religion? Rather than just keeping it from establishing a State run religion (Church of England)...which you and I know was the INTENT! ...

                                Freedom to assemble does not mean freedom to take over... We as Americans know that our rights end where our fellow citizens rights begin... Its about respect... Occupy ____________— fill in the blank are welcome to express themselves... Just respect others follow the laws and if you disagree with the law then Change the law..DON'T BREAK IT!

                                • 1 vote
                                #15.1 - Wed Oct 26, 2011 9:49 PM EDT
                                Reply
                                wayne-3333

                                and you will soon be hearing a lot more from the 53%.

                                http://money.cnn.com/2011/10/26/news/economy/occupy_wall_street_backlash/?npt=NP1&hpt=hp_t1

                                  Reply#16 - Wed Oct 26, 2011 8:39 PM EDT
                                  RebootIt

                                  That guy is not taking into account that the economy has changed drastically since 1996 and neither are you. WAKE UP!

                                  • 1 vote
                                  #16.1 - Thu Oct 27, 2011 3:18 AM EDT
                                  Reply
                                  Village Idiot-2299796

                                  Violence May Be Inevitable ...

                                  But it is far more often the case that it is state violence used against non-state actors.

                                  Understand that this always comes at an high price. If domestic security forces/police workers turn against the people, then it belongs to the people to turn and recognize domestic security forces/police workers as an essentially foreign force occupying US soil.

                                  Moreover, the risk of reprisals is real. It is not the sane people who lead; but it is the least stable and (ironically) the most principle-driven who tend to take charge of the dynamics.

                                  Every time police gas, beat and/or gun down protesters, they run the risk that there will be counterattacks. It may be a guy with a cult-like mind and a steel canister of compressed air on his back attached to a wand and acetone, a homemade flamethrower that sends several dozen police workers to glory in a flaming blaze. Or it may be chlorine gas released in city hall.

                                  This needs to happen one time. You will see the police vanish. And in their place, helicopter gunships and tanks. They will attack indiscriminately. They will gun down scores to scores of thousands of US citizens. All love of America will be gone.

                                  We are facing a very high-stakes game. Your official leaders are deeply concerned. They are a live with a strange mixture of contempt and cowardice. They are inflict massive damages on the population at large. They also contemplate their flight from United States soil.

                                  Pray that cooler, saner heads prevail. But don't count on it. Understand also that the powers that be WANT to provoke such actions, because they know that ultimately, control will shift from them to the people on the streets, who will create new, legal structures, the basis of a renewed, or a Second Republic, as is their right. A day of reckoning cometh.

                                  Politicians and police, investors and protestors, it behooves all to consider their ways.

                                  • 2 votes
                                  Reply#17 - Wed Oct 26, 2011 8:40 PM EDT
                                  Jim44

                                  ROFLMAO

                                  • 3 votes
                                  #17.1 - Wed Oct 26, 2011 10:02 PM EDT
                                  Village Idiot-2299796

                                  Not Much Of An Answer You Make ...

                                  ROFLMAO

                                  Is it, James.

                                  • 1 vote
                                  #17.2 - Thu Oct 27, 2011 1:29 AM EDT
                                  Reply
                                  absolutelyright

                                  Violence begets more violence. This is not the way!

                                  Exponentially, these protests will grow (as they already have) and be witnessed in more cities. The more clashes that take place the more it only eggs this on. It's going to get a lot worse before it gets better.

                                  Please bring back jobs, turn this economy around.

                                  • 3 votes
                                  Reply#18 - Wed Oct 26, 2011 8:51 PM EDT
                                  rose-231178

                                  "You are either with us or against us". You support of the people, by the people, or you support Lobbies, Wall Street GREED, Banksers, etc........

                                  See how why OWS cannot and should not focus on just one thing? There is too much wrong.

                                  • 2 votes
                                  Reply#19 - Wed Oct 26, 2011 8:53 PM EDT
                                  Jim44

                                  Ah ...No! ... to not support the clueless and the organizers at these Occupy events is not to be against the people! Do you have a clue who is organizing the events? And are you ready to support those that are? If you bothered to know who they are?

                                  Educate yourself on who the organizers really are then pick a side....

                                  • 2 votes
                                  #19.1 - Wed Oct 26, 2011 10:13 PM EDT
                                  Reply
                                  luvenia48

                                  Why don't you do a little research before standing on the side of the cops. Seems the crooks have learned to wear a badge. Why should we believe anyone with their track record???

                                  http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/10/13/ex-nypd-cop-we-planted-ev_n_1009754.html?icid=maing-grid10%7Chtmlws-main-bb%7Cdl1%7Csec3_lnk3%7C104236

                                  Stephen Anderson, Ex NYPD Cop: We Planted Evidence, Framed Innocent People To Reach Quotas

                                  Trymaine Lee

                                  Posted: 10/13/11

                                  A former New York City narcotics detective testified in court that planting drugs on innocent people was common practice, a quick and easy way to boost arrest numbers.

                                  http://www.forbes.com/2011/06/08/property-civil-forfeiture.html

                                  Civil Forfeiture Laws And The Continued Assault On Private Property

                                  Chip Mellor, 06.08.11, 05:30 PM EDT

                                  Your property is guilty until you prove it innocent.

                                  Civil forfeiture laws represent one of the most serious assaults on private property rights in the nation today. Under civil forfeiture, police and prosecutors can seize your car or other property, sell it and use the proceeds to fund agency budgets--all without so much as charging you with a crime. Unlike criminal forfeiture, where property is taken after its owner has been found guilty in a court of law, with civil forfeiture, owners need not be charged with a crime let alone be convicted to lose homes, cars, cash or other property.

                                  • 3 votes
                                  Reply#20 - Wed Oct 26, 2011 8:53 PM EDT
                                  fight for freedom-2341533

                                  Luvenia Good post thanks for the links. I know in my county this has happened when drugs were being sold in homes. I really don't want gun running or dope peddling in my county but no ones home should have their home or property seized be on suspicion of anything. I just read they caught 8 NYPD policeman gun running in NY. Not to mention another report that they had been planting evidence. There seems to be no end to the corruption.

                                    #20.1 - Wed Oct 26, 2011 9:21 PM EDT
                                    Jim44

                                    Yep ...like that has anything to do with protesters that refuse to follow orders.... Geeeeeezzzzzzzz

                                    • 2 votes
                                    #20.2 - Wed Oct 26, 2011 10:14 PM EDT
                                    greg-709692

                                    Is this "That '60's Show" ?

                                      #20.3 - Wed Oct 26, 2011 10:19 PM EDT
                                      Reply
                                      ray-2211901

                                      How come New York hasn't been hit hard? I mean, I don't wish this on anybody, but they've been at this the longest. Is it because of media attention?

                                        Reply#21 - Wed Oct 26, 2011 8:56 PM EDT
                                        Jim44

                                        You mean the Rich kids that go there to party and then go home at nigh?

                                        http://hotchicksofoccupywallstreet.tumblr.com/

                                        • 2 votes
                                        #21.1 - Wed Oct 26, 2011 10:20 PM EDT
                                        ray-2211901

                                        I read about that Jim.Funny stuff. It seems,New York wants these other cities to fight for them. Use smaller cities to embolden their cause. Stock Market is up 1000 pts in a month, Exxon is making 10 billion a quarter, food prices going up.up,up. What's the point of focusing on banks?

                                          #21.2 - Thu Oct 27, 2011 9:12 AM EDT
                                          Reply
                                          Moo-299581

                                          This is only the begining.

                                            Reply#22 - Wed Oct 26, 2011 8:57 PM EDT
                                            rose-231178

                                            No offense, but "only just the beginning" police action, or for OWS protestors going on?

                                            • 1 vote
                                            #22.1 - Wed Oct 26, 2011 9:07 PM EDT
                                            Moo-299581

                                            Sorry....I see that what I was saying was self evident.

                                            It is only the beginning of the protests.

                                            Until we all begin to share much more equally in prosperity of this country and this planet, until the richest 1, 2 or 3 percent quit rigging the game to insure that they and their families remain obscenely wealthy into perpetuity at the expense of everyone else.

                                            The people are waking up, something that has been feared by govts all over the world for decades. There is no going back to sleep, only an ever increasing alertness to the inequities that have gone on for much too long already.

                                            Remember the Carpenters? We've only just begun.....

                                            • 1 vote
                                            #22.2 - Wed Oct 26, 2011 10:57 PM EDT
                                            Reply
                                            news42

                                            Interesting to see the demonstrators breaking the law vs the Tea Party, and this in a state that is very liberal.

                                            • 1 vote
                                            Reply#23 - Wed Oct 26, 2011 9:06 PM EDT
                                            rose-231178

                                            Blast, I guess i feed the beast...

                                            Didn't see any guns.

                                            Oh, I am for guns.

                                            Constitution.

                                            Just not in the aspect the T !@#$%

                                              #23.1 - Wed Oct 26, 2011 9:12 PM EDT
                                              suz-3786636

                                              Still it could be plants that the GOP hire, like at there rallies.

                                                #23.2 - Wed Oct 26, 2011 10:44 PM EDT
                                                Reply
                                                Jim44

                                                Question to those that consider themselves either Democrats or Liberals but not Progressives ...Because there is a difference....

                                                Is this really who you want to be? Its kind of amazing... in the 1920's and 1930's they called themselves PROGRESSIVES.... and they made the name so disliked that they became Liberals... Now Today they are temporarily Progressives again... Look to D.C... Oakland and now Atlanta... is that what a hard working Democrat or Liberal really represents? Is this what you would want your children to be doing?

                                                Blindly following and chanting what is said to them!!! I for one don't believe it!! So Please LOOK!

                                                http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eu9BWlcRwPQ&feature=related

                                                Is this really you? And what you want for your children?

                                                Ever seen a Madrassa? Ever seen a group of children chanting to Mao or Stalin? Does it not scare the @!$%# out of you? .... Mindless followers!

                                                • 2 votes
                                                Reply#24 - Wed Oct 26, 2011 9:11 PM EDT
                                                This wont hurt much

                                                Now repeat after me.......

                                                  #24.1 - Thu Oct 27, 2011 12:25 AM EDT
                                                  Reply
                                                  Auto 101

                                                  Yes, we're afraid. Is this the night they're going to sneak in?"

                                                  Is this the night you will obey laws?

                                                  • 3 votes
                                                  Reply#25 - Wed Oct 26, 2011 9:13 PM EDT
                                                  T'omm J'Onzz

                                                  is this the day you stop voting up your own comments?

                                                  and just what law are they disobeying, per chance? the First Amendment?

                                                  • 2 votes
                                                  #25.1 - Thu Oct 27, 2011 12:29 AM EDT
                                                  Auto 101

                                                  is this the day you stop voting up your own comments?

                                                  I have not Voted for my comments so get a life.

                                                  and just what law are they disobeying, per chance? the First Amendment?

                                                  Just go into a theater and say fire. or talk dirty to a 12 year old and see how far you free speech gets.

                                                  • 1 vote
                                                  #25.2 - Thu Oct 27, 2011 3:14 AM EDT
                                                  Reply
                                                  news42

                                                  Did the Tea Party have any similar problems in all of their demonstrations ?

                                                  • 4 votes
                                                  Reply#26 - Wed Oct 26, 2011 9:21 PM EDT
                                                  Jim44

                                                  Did the Tea Party have any similar problems in all of their demonstrations ?

                                                  Lets see ? Tea Party had no one arrested ... as of today OCCUPY has had over 2000 arrested!

                                                  Tea Party Never had the Police use Tear Gas against them... OCCUPY ...in Oakland and Atlanta so far...

                                                  Now wait a second the Police are Union...right? So why did the Police have no problem with the tea party but they have to use tear gas on the OCCUPIERS?

                                                  So the Union Police are tear gassing the OCCUPIERS that support them .. And didn't do it to the Tea Party people..(scratches head) something seems wrong ... Shouldn't the Police be supporting the protesters .,.,.???????????????

                                                  Tear Gas the Tea Party not OCCUPIERS ????? But it seems the Police found out who really is who! You know when they throw urine at you ...paint at you ..defecate on your vehicles .. And call you a PIG!!!! I think they get or are getting the point!

                                                  Sadly or thankfully we do have the video tape to prove it ...Yes they did say it and do it... So if you want to support them !!! Be one of them! Don't call a cop...

                                                  • 1 vote
                                                  #26.1 - Wed Oct 26, 2011 10:37 PM EDT
                                                  james ca.

                                                  The Tea party has big money like Koch brothers renting land and private security forces for their events - does it feel good to put down OWS for not having such corporate sponsors? If anything, it makes OWS more legitimately a peoples movement - The difference between arrest of OWS protesters and the Tea party is that the OWS protesters can't afford to rent the Lincoln Memorial or to pay for convention halls - they are truly grass roots, unlike the manufactured Tea party.

                                                  • 1 vote
                                                  #26.2 - Thu Oct 27, 2011 1:07 AM EDT
                                                  Jim44

                                                  James ...

                                                  First ... The Lincoln Memorial is NOT FOR RENT... Its an asset of the National Park Service... You request a Permit, Reserve a Date follow their rules and meet their requirements... But Nice try with that one.... But ya got to Love how the left points to the Koch brothers then turns a blind eye to George Soros and pretends he is not even there.. And Think about it...If the Koch brothers financed everything the left said they do ...HAHAHA they would be about broke by now LOL...

                                                  As for Grass roots...My Ass !!!!

                                                  You might want to learn a bit more about who and what you support! It would appear to the casual reader you know as much about this Quote grass roots Unquote movement as you do about the Lincoln Memorial...

                                                  http://biggovernment.com/tag/lisa-fithian/

                                                  Then look into Steven Learner ..

                                                  Then watch this ...

                                                  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s8cBT_x22Jo

                                                  Organizing team from ACORN affiliated Working Family Party ...Hummm Grass Roots? Lets see a Professional ORGANIZER? What grass roots movement has professional payed organizers start them? That then works with ORGANIZED LABOR UNIONS?

                                                  Steven Learner former SEIU leader on Sept 22... forewarning of OWS ... Yep grass roots my ass!

                                                  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yKqHL8eJZO8

                                                  • 2 votes
                                                  #26.3 - Thu Oct 27, 2011 9:03 AM EDT
                                                  Reply
                                                  Jump to discussion page: 1 2 3
                                                  Leave a Comment:
                                                  You're in Easy Mode. If you prefer, you can use XHTML Mode instead.
                                                  You're in XHTML Mode. If you prefer, you can use Easy Mode instead.
                                                  (XHTML tags allowed - a,b,blockquote,br,code,dd,dl,dt,del,em,h2,h3,h4,i,ins,li,ol,p,pre,q,strong,ul)
                                                  Newsvine Privacy Statement
                                                  As a new user, you may notice a few temporary content restrictions. Click here for more info.
                                                  FUN STUFF:
                                                  • Leaderboard |
                                                  • E-Mail Alerts |
                                                  • Top of the Vine |
                                                  • Newsvine Live |
                                                  • Newsvine Archives |
                                                  • The Greenhouse
                                                  COMPANY STUFF:
                                                  • Code of Honor |
                                                  • Company Info |
                                                  • Contact Us |
                                                  • Jobs |
                                                  • User Agreement |
                                                  • Privacy Policy |
                                                  • About our ads
                                                  LEGAL STUFF:
                                                  • © 2005-2012 Newsvine, Inc. |
                                                  • Newsvine® is a registered trademark of Newsvine, Inc. |
                                                  • Newsvine is a property of msnbc.com