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Postal cuts to slow delivery of first-class mail

Sun Dec 4, 2011 9:17 AM EST
business, politics, us, problems, postal-service, postal
Hope Yen, Associated Press
< PreviousNext >
showing 1 of 4 photos
<p>FILE - In this Sept. 15, 2011, file photo Postmaster General Patrick Donahoe speaks at a news conference on changes to the Postal Service that could potentially save as much as $3 billion in Washington. The estimated $3 billion in reductions, to be announced in broader detail on Monday, Dec. 5, 2011, are part of a wide-ranging effort by the Postal Service to quickly trim costs and avert bankruptcy. While providing short-term relief, the changes could ultimately prove counterproductive, pushing more of America's business onto the Internet.(  AP Photo/Evan Vucci)</p>

FILE - In this Sept. 15, 2011, file photo Postmaster General Patrick Donahoe speaks at a news conference on changes to the Postal Service that could potentially save as much as $3 billion in Washington. The estimated $3 billion in reductions, to be announced in broader detail on Monday, Dec. 5, 2011, are part of a wide-ranging effort by the Postal Service to quickly trim costs and avert bankruptcy. While providing short-term relief, the changes could ultimately prove counterproductive, pushing more of America's business onto the Internet.( AP Photo/Evan Vucci)

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WASHINGTON — Facing bankruptcy, the U.S. Postal Service is pushing ahead with unprecedented cuts to first-class mail next spring that will slow delivery and, for the first time in 40 years, eliminate the chance for stamped letters to arrive the next day.

The estimated $3 billion in reductions, to be announced in broader detail on Monday, are part of a wide-ranging effort by the cash-strapped Postal Service to quickly trim costs, seeing no immediate help from Congress.

The changes would provide short-term relief, but ultimately could prove counterproductive, pushing more of America's business onto the Internet. They could slow everything from check payments to Netflix's DVDs-by-mail, add costs to mail-order prescription drugs, and threaten the existence of newspapers and time-sensitive magazines delivered by postal carrier to far-flung suburban and rural communities.

That birthday card mailed first-class to Mom also could arrive a day or two late, if people don't plan ahead.

"It's a potentially major change, but I don't think consumers are focused on it and it won't register until the service goes away," said Jim Corridore, analyst with S&P Capital IQ, who tracks the shipping industry. "Over time, to the extent the customer service experience gets worse, it will only increase the shift away from mail to alternatives. There's almost nothing you can't do online that you can do by mail."

The cuts, now being finalized, would close roughly 250 of the nearly 500 mail processing centers across the country as early as next March. Because the consolidations typically would lengthen the distance mail travels from post office to processing center, the agency also would lower delivery standards for first-class mail that have been in place since 1971.

Currently, first-class mail is supposed to be delivered to homes and businesses within the continental U.S. in one day to three days. That will lengthen to two days to three days, meaning mailers no longer could expect next-day delivery in surrounding communities. Periodicals could take between two days and nine days.

About 42 percent of first-class mail is now delivered the following day. An additional 27 percent arrives in two days, about 31 percent in three days and less than 1 percent in four days to five days. Following the change next spring, about 51 percent of all first-class mail is expected to arrive in two days, with most of the remainder delivered in three days.

The consolidation of mail processing centers is in addition to the planned closing of about 3,700 local post offices. In all, roughly 100,000 postal employees could be cut as a result of the various closures, resulting in savings of up to $6.5 billion a year.

Expressing urgency to reduce costs, Postmaster General Patrick Donahoe said in an interview that the agency has to act while waiting for Congress to grant it authority to reduce delivery to five days a week, raise stamp prices and reduce health care and other labor costs.

The Postal Service, an independent agency of government, does not receive tax money, but is subject to congressional control on large aspects of its operations. The changes in first-class mail delivery can go into place without permission from Congress.

After five years in the red, the post office faces imminent default this month on a $5.5 billion annual payment to the Treasury for retiree health benefits. It is projected to have a record loss of $14.1 billion next year amid steady declines in first-class mail volume. Donahoe has said the agency must make cuts of $20 billion by 2015 to be profitable.

It already has announced a 1-cent increase in first-class mail to 45 cents beginning Jan. 22.

"We have a business model that is failing. You can't continue to run red ink and not make changes," Donahoe said. "We know our business, and we listen to our customers. Customers are looking for affordable and consistent mail service, and they do not want us to take tax money."

Separate bills that have passed House and Senate committees would give the Postal Service more authority and liquidity to stave off immediate bankruptcy. But prospects are somewhat dim for final congressional action on those bills anytime soon, especially if the measures are seen in an election year as promoting layoffs and cuts to neighborhood post offices.

Technically, the Postal Service must await an advisory opinion from the independent Postal Regulatory Commission before it can begin closing local post offices and processing centers. But such opinions are nonbinding, and Donahoe is making clear the agency will proceed with reductions once the opinion is released next March.

"The things I have control over here at the Postal Service, we have to do," he said, describing the cuts as a necessary business decision. "If we do nothing, we will have a death spiral."

The Postal Service initially announced in September it was studying the possibility of closing the processing centers and published a notice in the Federal Register seeking comments. Within 30 days, the plan elicited nearly 4,400 public comments, mostly in opposition.

Among them:

_Small-town mayors and legislators in states including Illinois, Missouri, Ohio and Pennsylvania cited the economic harm if postal offices were to close, eliminating jobs and reducing service. Small-business owners in many other states also were worried.

"It's kind of a lifeline," said William C. Snodgrass, who owns a USave Pharmacy in North Platte, Neb., referring to next-day first-class delivery. His store mails hundreds of prescriptions a week to residents in mostly rural areas of the state that lack local pharmacies. If first-class delivery were lengthened to three days and Saturday mail service also were suspended, a resident might not get a shipment mailed on Wednesday until the following week.

"A lot of people in these communities are 65 or 70 years old, and transportation is an issue for them," said Snodgrass, who hasn't decided whether he will have to switch to a private carrier such as UPS for one-day delivery. That would mean passing along higher shipping costs to customers. "It's impossible for many of my customers to drive 100 miles, especially in the winter, to get the medications they need."

_ESPN The Magazine and Crain Communications, which prints some 27 trade and consumer publications, said delays to first-class delivery could ruin the value of their news. Their magazines are typically printed at week's end with mail arrival timed for weekend sports events or the Monday start of the work week. Newspapers, already struggling in the Internet age, also could suffer.

"No one wants to receive Tuesday's issue, containing news of Monday's events, on Wednesday," said Paul Boyle, a senior vice president of the Newspaper Association of America, which represents nearly 2,000 newspapers in the U.S. and Canada. "Especially in rural areas where there might not be broadband access for Internet news, it will hurt the ability of newspapers to reach customers who pretty much rely on the printed newspaper to stay connected to their communities."

_AT&T, which mails approximately 55 million customer billing statements each month, wants assurances that the Postal Service will widely publicize and educate the public about changes to avoid confusion over delivery that might lead to delinquent payments. The company is also concerned that after extensive cuts the Postal Service might realize it cannot meet a relaxed standard of two-to-three day delivery.

Other companies standing to lose include Netflix, which offers monthly pricing plans for unlimited DVDs by mail, sent one disc or two at a time. Longer delivery times would mean fewer opportunities to receive discs each month, effectively a price increase. Netflix in recent months has been vigorously promoting its video streaming service as an alternative.

"DVD by mail may not last forever, but we want it to last as long as possible," Netflix CEO Reed Hastings said this year.

Maine Sen. Susan Collins, the top Republican on the Senate committee that oversees the post office, believes the agency is taking the wrong approach. She says service cuts will only push more consumers to online bill payment or private carriers such as UPS or FedEx, leading to lower revenue in the future.

"Time and time again in the face of more red ink, the Postal Service puts forward ideas that could well accelerate its death spiral," she said, urging passage of a bill that would refund nearly $7 billion the Postal Service overpaid into a federal retirement fund, encourage a restructuring of health benefits and reduce the agency's annual payments into a retiree health account.

That measure would postpone a move to five-day-a-week mail delivery for at least two years and require additional layers of review before the agency closed postal branches and mail processing centers.

"The solution to the Postal Service's financial crisis is not easy but must involve tackling more significant expenses that do not drive customers," Collins said.

In the event of a shutdown due to bankruptcy, private companies such as FedEx and UPS could handle a small portion of the material the post office moves, but they do not go everywhere. No business has shown interest in delivering letters everywhere in the country for a set rate of 44 cents or 45 cents for a first-class letter.

Ruth Goldway, chair of the Postal Regulatory Commission, said the planned cuts could test the limits of the Postal Service's legal obligation to serve all Americans, regardless of geography, at uniform price and quality. "It will have substantial cost savings, but it really does have the potential to change what the postal service is and its role in providing fast and efficient delivery of mail," she said.

___

Online:

Postal Service: https://www.usps.com

© 2011 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.
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  • Hope Yen's Column, All of Newsvine
  • Groups: Happy with Corporate America?, The Newsvine Tea Party
  • Regions: Washington DC
  • Public Discussion (254)
Jump to discussion page: 1 2
Malibu AllenDeleted
roypatterson

The solution for the UPS is to sell the whole thing to private interprise. Take the money from the sale and pay on the national debt.

  • 4 votes
#2 - Sun Dec 4, 2011 10:08 AM EST
Ben-478550

You mean USPS.

UPS is a private enterprise.

  • 6 votes
#2.1 - Sun Dec 4, 2011 10:45 AM EST
NiteOwlett

Nothing only is Ben correct, Roy doesn't seem to understand that private industry CANNOT deliver daily mail to our entire country without raising the rates that would drive us further into a REAL depression.

Republicans are NOT KNOWN for proposing solutions, but KNOWN FOR proposing solutions that do actually harm us in the long run.

  • 4 votes
#2.2 - Sun Dec 4, 2011 12:24 PM EST
NiteOwlett

Not only...., not NOTHING ONLY. sorry.

    #2.3 - Sun Dec 4, 2011 1:00 PM EST
    Naughtia

    Thats moronic. You think that fedex and UPS arent doing regular mail cause they feel like it? cause the government offers it already? Cause they are scared of the post office monopoly?

    No they only stole the profitable part of mailing.

    Also too many of you republicans, live in a mega bubble and think everyone lives in a big city and that big city ideas work for rural america. American that feeds the world.

    AND YOU DO KNOW THE RIGHT WING PUT THE POST OFFICE IN THIS POSITION. Unlike any other business they are forced to come up with 75 years of health care benefits.

    • 8 votes
    #2.4 - Sun Dec 4, 2011 1:11 PM EST
    Palmquist1

    That is what the Republican been doing for 30 years and with the help of blue dog Dem.

    • 3 votes
    #2.5 - Sun Dec 4, 2011 2:03 PM EST
    king jester

    naughtia, how can you say this Postal Accountability and Enhancement Act of 2006 was a republican plan.

    they did not record the votes on this bill, and it was passed in a democrat majority house and senate, this bill was sponsored by 2 democrats and 1 republican. so i would then believe its a democrat plan to kill the post office. or set it up to be bailed out by the American tax payers. and buying many more union votes.

    • 2 votes
    #2.6 - Sun Dec 4, 2011 2:23 PM EST
    gmross

    king jester, if you go to this site it will show you that it was passed before the Democrats had the majority during a lame duck session of congress and that President Bush signed it into law before the Democratic majority was sworn in.

    http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=h109-6407

    It was conceived by Republicans and passed by Republicans so it is a Republican mess.

    • 6 votes
    #2.7 - Sun Dec 4, 2011 2:30 PM EST
    king jester

    your right the 201 democrates that signed this bill in the house are all innocent. and the democrates had control of the senate. so they are all innocent also right?

    • 2 votes
    #2.8 - Sun Dec 4, 2011 2:36 PM EST
    chitownty

    Why would king jester allow facts to get in the way of the right wing yaking points.

    • 5 votes
    #2.9 - Sun Dec 4, 2011 2:37 PM EST
    gmross

    I think its a re-reg, Chitownty! Be very very careful.

    • 1 vote
    #2.10 - Sun Dec 4, 2011 2:39 PM EST
    king jester

    hehehe re reg really, please if your going to accuse me of anything feel free to report me and be able to back up that claim.

    • 2 votes
    #2.11 - Sun Dec 4, 2011 2:43 PM EST
    gmross

    You've been on the vine for over a year and haven't posted one article, you have made comments, so, if not a re-reg then maybe a troll.

    • 5 votes
    #2.12 - Sun Dec 4, 2011 2:47 PM EST
    king jester

    maybe someone that isnt interested in posting. i didnt read in the rules where you are required to post anything. or did i miss that somewhere. or do you feel you get to decide who is allowed to do anything on newsvine and do you get to decide what is acceptable or not? do i need to fill out a form and get my newsvine activites preapproved?

    • 3 votes
    #2.13 - Sun Dec 4, 2011 2:51 PM EST
    chitownty

    Maybe a trolling re-reg?

    • 1 vote
    #2.14 - Sun Dec 4, 2011 2:52 PM EST
    gmross

    Chitownty, I think its time for the ignore button, don't you?

    • 1 vote
    #2.15 - Sun Dec 4, 2011 3:07 PM EST
    azartguy

    if you go to this site it will show you that it was passed before the Democrats had the majority during a lame duck session of congress and that President Bush signed it into law before the Democratic majority was sworn in. It was conceived by Republicans and passed by Republicans so it is a Republican mess.

    gmross (#2.7) Your comments are correct . The seeds of the problem were sown earlier by Nixon, however, with the Postal Reorganization Act of 1970. As Reps are so fond of doing, they blocked reform of the system, forced the postal strike of 1970 and then used the strike they created as justification for "reorganization." Reagan was to do the same with air traffic controllers in the 80s. The Act did improve working conditions and wages in the short run, but it also started the long slide into a sea of red ink and Congressional mismanagement.

    The irony is that the "free market" folks say the mail service should be fully privatized so the market could set rates and service. The profit-motive drive would then inevitably lead tens of millions of Americans who don't, won't or can't pay the private freight to being marginalized; and the internet cannot, and should not, replace this basic and necessary service.

    There is no alternative to national postal service, as the law clearly states: The United States Postal Service shall be operated as a basic and fundamental service provided to the people by the Government of the United States, authorized by the Constitution, created by Act of Congress, and supported by the people.

    Mail delivery is fundamental to the security and stability of the society as are railroads, highways, ports and harbors, airports, military bases. Their virtue is in their service, not in their profit. The problem is that too many right-leaning shrink-the-government folks know the price of everything and the value of nothing. All cost money, but that is price we pay for our society.

    • 4 votes
    #2.16 - Sun Dec 4, 2011 3:13 PM EST
    Darkdonnie

    Hey Jester,

    They do not like the facts, that is a recurring problem with the lib/progs here on the vine.

    Friend request sent!

    • 2 votes
    #2.17 - Sun Dec 4, 2011 3:19 PM EST
    NiteOwlett

    The FACTS are that that Post Office accountability law was passed without a recorded vote. It was a VOICE vote and it was BEFORE the Democrats took control in 2007.

    Why do people stick to their lies????? To mislead??? To put out the lie often enough that even THEY believe their own baloney???

    King Jester, please explain your misleading take on this bill.

      #2.18 - Mon Dec 5, 2011 11:16 AM EST
      king jester

      what misleading part of it, it was voted on and approved by 203 democrates in the house and approved by the democrate controlled senate. how is that misleading?

        #2.19 - Mon Dec 5, 2011 12:04 PM EST
        Gulliver's Island

        This wouldn't be the first time the Democrats voted for a bad bill.

        The real question is why? They either didn't understand the full implications of what they were voting for or they were complicit.

        Either way, it reinforces my belief that politics in Washington DC is about as predictable as a Harlem Globetrotters exhibition game, and yes, the Dems are the Washington Generals.

        • 2 votes
        #2.20 - Mon Dec 5, 2011 12:10 PM EST
        king jester

        i dont think the dems are the generals, i think both parties are the globe trotters and the american people are the generals.

        • 1 vote
        #2.21 - Mon Dec 5, 2011 12:13 PM EST
        NiteOwlett

        King Jester: Give us a link to your vote of 203 Democrats voting FOR the bill. I saw the vote was VOICE only and no record exists for the individual vote.

        • 1 vote
        #2.22 - Mon Dec 5, 2011 12:31 PM EST
        king jester

        yes they did not record the vote but there was 203 democrats in the house, they could of easily stopped this bill if they wanted to. but they didnt so they means they voted for it.

          #2.23 - Mon Dec 5, 2011 12:47 PM EST
          NiteOwlett

          So, I unearthed a lie from your lips. You have NOT a clue who voted for or against this since the MAJORITY allowed a voice vote and if you have ever listened to congressional votes, you realize the voice didn't matter other than the little letter R next to the bill's title.

            #2.24 - Mon Dec 5, 2011 2:14 PM EST
            Gulliver's Island

            But where are the Democrats on this now?

            Now that the bill is doing its damage where is the outcry against it?

            You have to go off and read fringe media to find anyone blaming the bill for the crisis.

            • 3 votes
            #2.25 - Mon Dec 5, 2011 2:28 PM EST
            NiteOwlett

            More baloney. A SUPER MAJORITY required for everything is going to be the RUIN of America.

              #2.26 - Tue Dec 6, 2011 2:47 PM EST
              Reply
              genevieveva

              Mail is vital to this nation. To give the money to private corp is insane.

              • 14 votes
              Reply#3 - Sun Dec 4, 2011 10:12 AM EST
              Common.Cents

              Not to mention that operation of the Post Office is one of the few things the states created the Federal Government for.

              As I mentioned below, this is just an attempt to move us beyond that old Constitution document and into a new era of unlimited government by the ruling class.

              --
              ¢ommon ¢ents

              • 2 votes
              #3.1 - Sun Dec 4, 2011 5:29 PM EST
              johny-388777

              Naughtia

              AND YOU DO KNOW THE RIGHT WING PUT THE POST OFFICE IN THIS POSITION. Unlike any other business they are forced to come up with 75 years of health care benefits.

              Thats what the Right wing nuts do. They find away to destroy something so they can have there privatisation agenda march forward.

              Thats all they do. Its never for them, If they fail, they want government hand outs, The rich have the entitlement mentality and are the biggest liars.

              • 3 votes
              #3.2 - Tue Dec 6, 2011 10:35 AM EST
              Reply
              Gulliver's Island

              Has anyone here read how the reason the postal service is going bankrupt is because congress passed a bill requiring it to fund its pension and health care costs far into the future? In particular they have to fund the next 75 years of obligations within the next decade.

              Here is an article which explains this:

              Rolando lays out the real root of the problem: "The problem lies elsewhere: the 2006 congressional mandate that the USPS pre-fund future retiree health benefits for the next 75 years, and do so within a decade, an obligation no other public agency or private firm faces. The roughly $5.5 billion annual payments since 2007 — $21 billion total — are the difference between a positive and negative ledger."

              Postal Service management recently claimed: "If we were a private company, we would have already filed for bankruptcy and gone through restructuring—much like major automakers did two years ago." NALC responded by calling this claim the "Big Lie." If the USPS were a private company, NALC argued, it wouldn't have been subjected to the pre-funding requirement and it would've been profitable, since the pre-funding requirement is responsible for 100 percent of the Service's losses in recent years.

              NALC suggests that the problem has an easy fix. Instead of eliminating the requirement for pre-funding future benefits, Rolando says that the Postal Service should be allowed to transfer funds from pension surpluses instead of operating funds. That would continue to fund both pensions and retiree health benefits funded well into the future while putting the operations budget back into a surplus without cutting back on services or laying off workers.

              In other words, the Postal Service isn't dying of natural causes. It's being murdered by right wing ideologues.

              • 18 votes
              #4 - Sun Dec 4, 2011 10:29 AM EST
              Ben-478550

              Surprising?

              • 1 vote
              #4.1 - Sun Dec 4, 2011 10:45 AM EST
              Darkdonnie

              In other words, the Postal Service isn't dying of natural causes. It's being murdered by right wing ideologues.

              Hmmmmm from the NYT:

              decades of contractual promises made to unionized workers, including no-layoff clauses, are increasing the post office’s costs. Labor represents 80 percent of the agency’s expenses, compared with 53 percent at United Parcel Service and 32 percent at FedEx, its two biggest private competitors. Postal workers also receive more generous health benefits than most other federal employees.

              • 3 votes
              #4.2 - Sun Dec 4, 2011 11:08 AM EST
              Kc77

              Hmmmmm from the NYT:

              No Hmm in it. What Gulliver said is correct. It's their obligations to the pensions that are killing them. What you've highlighted doesn't dig deep enough.

              • 4 votes
              #4.3 - Sun Dec 4, 2011 11:16 AM EST
              Darkdonnie

              Which democrats voted against the 2006 law? pfffft

              Was there any democrat co-sponsors?

              • 3 votes
              #4.4 - Sun Dec 4, 2011 11:25 AM EST
              Gulliver's Island

              Damn those feckless, complicit Democrats!

              • 2 votes
              #4.5 - Sun Dec 4, 2011 11:46 AM EST
              Gulliver's Island

              The point is that it isn't just pension costs and health care costs which are sinking the Post Office, it's the artificially accelerated timetable to fund the costs which is sinking the Post Office.

              • 5 votes
              #4.6 - Sun Dec 4, 2011 11:54 AM EST
              genevieveva

              I know, it is a shame that congress can decide the fate of our nation, our mail, and our vote.

              • 4 votes
              #4.7 - Sun Dec 4, 2011 11:58 AM EST
              scott-1148057

              (In other words, the Postal Service isn't dying of natural causes. It's being murdered by right wing ideologues.)....how in the world do you get guilt from the RIGHT WING out of the article you just posted??? where is the RIGHT WING in the article????the problem is the NALC, the union, they have been fighting reducing routes tooth and nail for 25 years, and who is the union???? oh thats right its the LEFT WING ideologues. you have it exactly opposite. If the USPS could have been allowed to reduce routes, hence trim employees little by little it wouldn't have to make such drastic cuts all at once, thank you unions for putting us in this situation

              • 1 vote
              #4.8 - Sun Dec 4, 2011 12:06 PM EST
              petridishofideas

              Please keep in mind that there are plenty of corps who have promised to have pensions and retirement and medical for their employees and there are even portfolios set up to do just that. There are also plenty of corps who have failed to keep up payments pleading financial difficulties all the while there ceos, upper management and stock holders make out like the bandits that are! AND who has to make up the difference.......IF you have paid any attention, it is the taxpayers! Not defending USPS by any means......there have seen the writing on the wall ffor YEARS and seem to expect the American taxpayer to cover their assets! Fire the upper management and put in someone who can make it a viable contender if that is possible.

              • 1 vote
              #4.9 - Sun Dec 4, 2011 12:08 PM EST
              Checkmate-983933

              Wasn't there a joke that was supposedly true that Congress couldn't run a brothel and you expect them to run something else?

              • 2 votes
              #4.10 - Sun Dec 4, 2011 12:19 PM EST
              Infohack

              I've never quite bought the argument that the Postal Service's problems are simply the result of a failed business model.

              Even though the amount of letters being sent has been drastically reduced, the internet has created new opportunities as well. Package delivery from online shopping has soared, and USPS shipping services are quite competitive with UPS and FedEx - many small businesses utilize Priority Mail due to their pricing model.

              Here's another good article on the subject of the pre-paid health benefits USPS is forced to pay:

              You might have heard that the United States Postal Service is in trouble: that it's losing billions, that it will have to end Saturday service and close branches - and most inflammatory, that it might need a government bailout. Perhaps you heard that the Postal Service couldn't pay $5.5 billion bill that came due Sept. 30 and that only an emergency postponement saved it from the government's equivalent of default.

              In fact, it's the Postal Service that's currently bailing out the U.S. government. Politicians have been raiding Postal Service revenues for years, using them to make the federal deficit appear smaller than it really is. The fiscal gyrations are so twisted that the Postal Service is right now forced to pre-pay health care benefits for employees the agency hasn't even hired yet - in fact, for many future employees who haven't even been born yet - all to artificially shrink the federal deficit.

              It's these crushing accounting tricks, not the cost of delivering mail, that has pushed this 200-year-old institution to the brink.

              Welcome to the wacky world of Washington, D.C., accounting.

              MSNBC.com Red Tape - Twisted government accounting behind Postal Service woes

              • 5 votes
              #4.11 - Sun Dec 4, 2011 12:51 PM EST
              Naughtia

              wish I had scrolled down. Glad someone know the right wing stabbed the post office in the back. Darkdonnie, spin yourself dizzy if you want, doesnt change the fact that no other agency or business has to come up with 75 years of employee health care all at once.

              And even a republican could see that a "tax bill" that covered 75 years, might @!$%#ing harm any damn company on the planet earth, even someone like microsoft.

              • 5 votes
              #4.12 - Sun Dec 4, 2011 1:13 PM EST
              Palmquist1

              Two blue dog Dem voted for this.

              • 3 votes
              #4.13 - Sun Dec 4, 2011 2:06 PM EST
              Darkdonnie

              There are also plenty of corps who have failed to keep up payments pleading financial difficulties all the while there ceos, upper management and stock holders make out like the bandits that are!

              You make this sound like it is the norm or even more than the few it actually is!

              Fire the upper management and put in someone who can make it a viable contender if that is possible.

              That is exactly what is going to happen next November!

              • 3 votes
              #4.14 - Sun Dec 4, 2011 2:19 PM EST
              petridishofideas

              darkdonnie.....FEW?!? ROTFFL Hysterically AT YOU! the gNOpee will believe anything faux spews and the mental/moral midgets of peckerhead and rush the lush say.

              • 1 vote
              #4.15 - Sun Dec 4, 2011 2:27 PM EST
              Darkdonnie

              Darkdonnie, spin yourself dizzy

              Spin, what? I laid out the facts, if it doesn't fit your preconceived ideals that is your problem!

              Two blue dog Dem voted for this.

              Waxman co-sponsored this bill, are you actually trying to say he is a Blue dog dem?

              All the dems in the house and senate voted for it, who is spinning now?

              • 2 votes
              #4.16 - Sun Dec 4, 2011 2:29 PM EST
              Darkdonnie

              darkdonnie.....FEW?!? ROTFFL Hysterically AT YOU! the gNOpee will believe anything faux spews and the mental/moral midgets of peckerhead and rush the lush say.

              Can you provide any data to back up your democratic talking points? How many do you believe it is? And by your response I wonder if I should even respond to you, what are you 12 years old?

              • 2 votes
              #4.17 - Sun Dec 4, 2011 3:49 PM EST
              joe420er

              darkdonnie, just wanted to say, nyt is owned by newscorp, owner of fox news, wall street journal, direct tv, and hundreds of newspapers nationwide as well as television stations. in 2003 they successfully argued against a lawsuit against them for false news...they acknowledged that they lied, but they argued that under the first amendment they had the right to lie to you and they broke no laws legally. and the courts agreed...i wouldn't listen to them...btw newscorp second largest majority owner is a saudi arabian "prince"...why would you follow news by middle eastern dudes and foreigners such as rupert murdoch?

              http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_hb6666/is_272_35/ai_n29142998/?tag=content;col1

              • 1 vote
              #4.18 - Sun Dec 4, 2011 4:00 PM EST
              Darkdonnie

              darkdonnie, just wanted to say, nyt is owned by newscorp, owner of fox news, wall street journal, direct tv, and hundreds of newspapers nationwide as well as television stations.

              You are kidding right, you cannot possibly be this obtuse, can you?

              The company's chairman is Arthur Ochs Sulzberger Jr., whose family has controlled the paper since 1896.

              http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_New_York_Times

                #4.19 - Sun Dec 4, 2011 4:56 PM EST
                joe420er

                whoops...just doubled checked...that was the new york post that newscorp bought. i got an essay to revise now. fuuuuck. however, keep in mind that fox news and newscorp has set a precedent for all media news with their landmark win in that case...

                • 1 vote
                #4.20 - Sun Dec 4, 2011 5:03 PM EST
                Darkdonnie

                It was a local fox news outlet in Tampa and five major media outlets filed briefs of Amici Curiae- or friend of FOX – to support FOX’s position: Belo Corporation, Cox Television, Inc., Gannett Co., Inc., Media General Operations, Inc., and Post-Newsweek Stations, Inc.

                There is more to it than you know!

                  #4.21 - Sun Dec 4, 2011 5:48 PM EST
                  joe420er

                  nice! gonna look into that and add it...

                    #4.22 - Sun Dec 4, 2011 5:55 PM EST
                    BIGTIMEj

                    In other words, the Postal Service isn't dying of natural causes. It's being murdered by right wing ideologues.

                    true of many things

                    • 2 votes
                    #4.23 - Sun Dec 4, 2011 9:54 PM EST
                    Gulliver's Island

                    I accept the premise that the Post Office is being killed by a law passed by congress in 2006. And I view that law as a right wing stunt to: (1) privatize the post office and (2) dismantle public sector unions, but what I see missing is any clamor on the part of congressional Democrats or the White House to fix this.

                    Setting aside how valuable the postal service is to every last one of us, and even how the postal service is mandated by the Constitution, the Democrats should be trying to fix this problem out of a sense of self-prezervation. The Democrats don't have the Koch brothers deep pockets (although they make the occasional shameless overture for Koch brothers' money). The Democrats don't have the Chamber of Commerce. What the Democrats have is labor unions and community organizations. When the Democrats don't lift a finger in defense of such groups, they might as well just blow their brains out, so we can get on with figuring which party we would like to replace the Democrats with.

                    • 2 votes
                    #4.24 - Mon Dec 5, 2011 11:54 AM EST
                    king jester

                    your also missing the part where the democrats co sponsored this bill and they also voted in favor of it. it wasnt just a republican stunt, it was both parties

                    • 1 vote
                    #4.25 - Mon Dec 5, 2011 12:06 PM EST
                    Gulliver's Island

                    I actually called it a right wing stunt as opposed to a Republican stunt, and I did that on purpose. I refuse to lay blame totally at the door of the Republicans because (1) the bill had Democratic support and (2) I am unaware of any serious effort on the part of the Democratic party to undo the damage done by this bill.

                    One of the things that drives down popularity on Newsvine is the fact that I am a fairly consistent critic of the Democrats. I view them as a sham of a party, failing on purpose. They actually prefer to be in the minority so they can grandstand against the GOP while getting nothing done. When I complain how they squandered their super-majority back in 2009 and punted on the Union Card Check bill and kneecapped the public option, I get drawn into an epistemological argument about how the super-majority was only an illusion. It was only an "illusion" because it was the Democrats in possession of it. They have the same prime directive the Republicans do: please Wall Street.

                    And that is how the Democrats behave when people are watching. This Post Office story is an example of how the Democrats behave when they think nobody is watching. When they think nobody is watching they vote for bad bills and allow Democratic principles, constituencies and even their own viability to whither on the vine.

                    Privatizing the Post Office and and crippling/dismantling postal worker unions are right wing agenda items. The mystifying part is why the Democrats are complicit. But is is only mystifying if you are under the illusion that the Democrats are not a bunch of two faced hypocrites.

                    At some point we can expect Obama to give a speech in front of a Post Office. The sad part is that it will probably be a Post Office about to be bulldozed and Obama will be taking credit for it.

                    • 2 votes
                    #4.26 - Mon Dec 5, 2011 12:25 PM EST
                    king jester

                    i agree with your points. i am as right wing as they come, but i do not want to see the post office go under. i think they are mismanaged. and really should take advantage of the market forces aready avalible.

                    bulk mail is their bread and butter. it shows up already to be delivered. little or no processing needed. first class mail is a mess and has to be most of the time hand sorted.

                    they could take a cue frm ups and shut down all the big bulky post offices and open smaller strip mall versions like my postal store ( my ups store) and take a smaller foot print and bigger market share. along with killing alot of the upper overhead that is weighing down the already sinking ship

                    • 1 vote
                    #4.27 - Mon Dec 5, 2011 12:52 PM EST
                    Gulliver's Island

                    I don't know how mismanaged they are. For years, all it has taken to get a letter delivered, and usually by the next day, is to lick a stamp. Most of the packages I order from Amazon show up well before the promised delivery date. The market for mail is changing, but it seems the current red ink crisis is due to a ridiculous bill requiring them to fund their pension and health care costs will into the future.

                    If the internet is killing the post office, perhaps there should be a small internet fee which goes to subsidize the post office. Perhaps the post office should invest that fee into 21st century postal services that use the internet. Anyway, that's just me pulling a few quick ideas out of my ass.

                    I think what we have here is a bipartisan pissing away of a national resource that is is going to be hard to rebuild. Before we had our revolution, we had our committees of correspondence. The American revolution was born in words written onto pieces of paper and carried from colony to colony. The British passed the Stamp Act for a reason: to shut those nasty correspondence committees down. The founding fathers knew that freedom of speech and freedom of the press wasn't enough. You also needed a comprehensive means of getting that free speech into the hands of the people. In concept the internet replaces the post office in many ways, but there is a big problem with the internet: it makes it too easy to read everybody's mail.

                    I guarantee you that some supercomputer at the NSA is reading every Newsvine post and flagging some of them. I'd be awfully surprised if this post didn't get a a bit of scrutiny. It's talking about government and the NSA after all. ATT helped the government build a huge packet sniffer with the capability of inspecting every packet that flows through their system. They might be scanning every last email message in the nation.

                    They aren't opening every last paper envelope. We would have heard about it if they were.

                    • 1 vote
                    #4.28 - Mon Dec 5, 2011 1:43 PM EST
                    king jester

                    i dont want to see an "internet fee" i am do not like the governemt giving subsidies to anyone. oil or post office or GE for that matter.

                    but your right both parties are not helping the post office in anyway.

                    • 1 vote
                    #4.29 - Mon Dec 5, 2011 2:05 PM EST
                    johny-388777

                    Its a very sad fact but true. What the hell was happening? I suspect the democrat majority have a lot of people who are really republicans at heart.

                    Gulliver's IslandWhen I complain how they squandered their super-majority back in 2009 and punted on the Union Card Check bill and kneecapped the public option, I get drawn into an epistemological argument about how the super-majority was only an illusion. It was only an "illusion" because it was the Democrats in possession of it. They have the same prime directive the Republicans do: please Wall Street.

                    These democrats need to be exposed for what they are. I always say that sabotage is a trick that is played in the main game in the businesses here in the United states. I want all corporate failures to be investigated on the probable cause of sabotage by competitors.

                    • 2 votes
                    #4.30 - Tue Dec 6, 2011 10:42 AM EST
                    Reply
                    Dean Moriarty

                    Just like the government to wait until they drive the thing into the ground before making the necessary cuts. The post office has largely been replaced by the internet years ago that is when the cuts should have begun. Just about anything that can be done through snail mail can be done over the internet the post office is like US buggy whip outdated and obsolete. Everyone should have been able to read the hand writing on the wall.

                    • 4 votes
                    Reply#5 - Sun Dec 4, 2011 10:58 AM EST
                    Naughtia

                    JUst like a republican to blame the government and then get elected and make it true.

                    There is nothing wrong with the post office. The only reason why they need the cuts is because Bush and the GOP (who had all branches of government) forced the post office to pay health care costs up front that cover the next 75 years.

                    Republicans blame the government and then get elected and prove it.

                    Look at what they did to get us in the mega recession. they removed banking reserve requirements and all oversite and now sit on the net chanting how it was all the governments fault, just dont blame the GOP, just the faceless term "the government"

                    • 3 votes
                    #5.1 - Sun Dec 4, 2011 1:16 PM EST
                    Darkdonnie

                    The only reason why they need the cuts is because Bush and the GOP (who had all branches of government) forced the post office to pay health care costs up front that cover the next 75 years.

                    Spin......... It was a bipartisan vote and the Postal Union approved and helped write it per there own leadership.

                    Republicans blame the government and then get elected and prove it.

                    Huh, what, who......The post office can no longer compete with private suppliers. They should either keep up of get out. They do not even have to do better than break even unlike a private company.

                    Look at what they did to get us in the mega recession. they removed banking reserve requirements and all oversite and now sit on the net chanting how it was all the governments fault, just dont blame the GOP, just the faceless term "the government"

                    And you think the dems hold no culpability in any of this........... fantasy land, what color is the sky where you live.

                    • 2 votes
                    #5.2 - Sun Dec 4, 2011 2:38 PM EST
                    Reply
                    madvargr

                    This is all the fault of Congress' stupid law. Let's all thank the Republicans and the Bush Administration for creating yet another @!$%# up for America. The levels of their malfeasance and ineptitude are endless.

                    • 5 votes
                    #6 - Sun Dec 4, 2011 11:01 AM EST
                    Darkdonnie

                    Let's all thank the Republicans and the Bush Administration for creating yet another @!$%# up for America. The levels of their malfeasance and ineptitude are endless.

                    How many dems voted against it? hmmmmm

                    So did Barack Obama, Hillary Clinton, and John Kerry vote against it. In, fact, it passed the Senate with 100% consent, not a single senator objected to the language in the bill. And the sponsors of the bill in the house were two Republicans, Tom Davis and John McHugh, and two Democrats, Danny Davis and Henry Waxman.

                    Why did no Democrats oppose this "union-busting" bill when it went through the senate? Why did two Democrats co-sponsor this "union-busting" legislation? And why has The union, the NALC, done a 180-degree turn-around on this, with no mention of the fact that they supported this bill, even boasted about having helped craft the bill?

                    But I am sure you are right its all the republicans fault. pfffft

                    • 6 votes
                    #6.1 - Sun Dec 4, 2011 11:22 AM EST
                    Naughtia

                    Isnt it amazing, how bipartisan the GOP become when they want to spin their way out of @!$%#.

                    The buck stops on the presidents desk. he signed it yall own it. Heck yall like to blame Obama for tarp when your boy mccain canceled his campaign to run to washington to pressure people to pass it.

                    ISnt it always that way with republicans. 9-11 wasnt bush's fault it was clintons.

                    Bush inherited a recession that started months into his watch.

                    But Obama owns this recession.

                    and dont you know Obama broke his promise to close gitmo, despite the GOP filibustered every time he tried.

                    AMAZING HOW BIPARTISAN THAT GET.

                    WEll when a company goes under, do you blame the junior executives or the GUY in charge? The guy who with a single stroke of his pen can say NO!. For years yall screamed at us about the "unitary executive" but apparently that only extends to 'making the decisions" and not into "taking the blame"

                    • 4 votes
                    #6.2 - Sun Dec 4, 2011 1:23 PM EST
                    king jester

                    your right and i agree the buck stops at the top.

                    so we need to bring treason charges against obama for what he has done to this countries economy.

                    or do you only mean it stops at the top if its a republican? your hipocracy is showing.

                    all people that have voted on this needs to be removed from office. and i do believe in 2006 most of them was democrates.

                    • 2 votes
                    #6.3 - Sun Dec 4, 2011 2:27 PM EST
                    BIGTIMEj

                    what did obama do

                      #6.4 - Sun Dec 4, 2011 9:44 PM EST
                      joe420er

                      treason charges should be brought against bush and company....

                        #6.5 - Sun Dec 4, 2011 9:47 PM EST
                        king jester

                        obama has lead this country in the the biggest double dip recesion in history, and according to Naugh.. the bug stops at the top. so he should be charged with treason for what he has done to this country

                        • 1 vote
                        #6.6 - Sun Dec 4, 2011 10:06 PM EST
                        joe420er

                        bush led us into the recession in the first place...

                          #6.7 - Sun Dec 4, 2011 10:57 PM EST
                          king jester

                          yes but the top man in charge now is obama, so the buck stops with him.

                          • 1 vote
                          #6.8 - Sun Dec 4, 2011 11:57 PM EST
                          Jim44

                          K.J.

                          Asking the man that has been President for 3 years.... 2 of which he had a Democrat (his party) controlled congress ... To take responsibility seems to be asking to damn much!

                          Its much easier to blame everyone else!!!!! And it feels better !!!

                            #6.9 - Mon Dec 5, 2011 12:09 AM EST
                            king jester

                            hey he is the president, he can do no wrong right?

                            • 1 vote
                            #6.10 - Mon Dec 5, 2011 12:25 AM EST
                            joe420er

                            come on. this guy's been in office barely over 3 years and bush ran us into the ground over the course of 8 years. the 8 yrs of damage bush caused could hardly be solved by one man and certainly not within 4 yrs.

                              #6.11 - Mon Dec 5, 2011 12:29 AM EST
                              king jester

                              so joe what policy of bush's ran us into the ground at the start of his 8 years?

                                #6.12 - Mon Dec 5, 2011 1:44 AM EST
                                joe420er

                                war. the arms trade. no child left behind. refusing to parcipicate in the kyoto treaty, which he said he would join if voted into office, and didn't. big surprise, huh. there's more, but that's what i got going through my mind right now...

                                  #6.13 - Mon Dec 5, 2011 1:50 AM EST
                                  joe420er

                                  here's one example of what i mean...bush really @!$%#ed us up worldwide and escalated violence worldwide with his arms trade bull@!$%#, he was just @!$%#in careless and didn't care about @!$%# but makin money...:

                                  Report: U.S. WEAPONS AT WAR 2005

                                  ARMS TRADE RESOURCE CENTER

                                  U.S. WEAPONS AT WAR 2005:
                                  PROMOTING FREEDOM OR FUELING CONFLICT?
                                  U.S. Military Aid and Arms Transfers Since September 11

                                  Perhaps no single policy is more at odds with President Bush’s pledge to "end tyranny in our world" than the United States’ role as the world’s leading arms exporting nation. Although arms sales are often justified on the basis of their purported benefits, from securing access to overseas military facilities to rewarding coalition allies in conflicts such as the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, these alleged benefits often come at a high price. All too often, U.S. arms transfers end up fueling conflict, arming human rights abusers, or falling into the hands of U.S. adversaries. As in the case of recent decisions to provide new F-16 fighter planes to Pakistan, while pledging comparable high-tech military hardware to its rival India, U.S. arms sometimes go to both sides in long brewing conflicts, ratcheting up tensions and giving both sides better firepower with which to threaten each other. Far from serving as a force for security and stability, U.S. weapons sales frequently serve to empower unstable, undemocratic regimes to the detriment of U.S. and global security.

                                  In 2003, the last year for which full information is available, the United States transferred weaponry to 18 of the 25 countries involved in active conflicts. From Angola, Chad and Ethiopia, to Colombia, Pakistan and the Philippines, transfers through the two largest U.S. arms sales programs (Foreign Military Sales and Commercial Sales) to these conflict nations totaled nearly $1 billion in 2003, with the vast bulk of the dollar volume going to Israel ($845.6 million).

                                  In 2003, more than half of the top 25 recipients of U.S. arms transfers in the developing world (13 of 25) were defined as undemocratic by the U.S. State Department’s Human Rights Report: in the sense that "citizens do not have the right to change their own government" or that right was seriously abridged. These 13 nations received over $2.7 billion in U.S. arms transfers under the Foreign Military Sales and Commercial Sales programs in 2003, with the top recipients including Saudi Arabia ($1.1 billion), Egypt ($1.0 billion), Kuwait ($153 million), the United Arab Emirates ($110 million) and Uzbekistan ($33 million).

                                  When countries designated by the State Department’s Human Rights Report to have poor human rights records or serious patterns of abuse are factored in, 20 of the top 25 U.S. arms clients in the developing world in 2003-- a full 80%-- were either undemocratic regimes or governments with records of major human rights abuses.

                                  http://www.worldpolicy.org/projects/arms/reports/wawjune2005.html

                                  • 1 vote
                                  #6.14 - Mon Dec 5, 2011 2:09 AM EST
                                  king jester

                                  and obama's list is. war. debt out of control, start treaty, war, lowering taxes on the rich, war, all children are fat programs, crashing the american dollar, selling guns to mexican cartels. should we go on?

                                  name 1 thing that bush did that obama undid? what policy did obama reverse?

                                    #6.15 - Mon Dec 5, 2011 2:10 AM EST
                                    joe420er

                                    well, let's start with the iraq war. hmm, also in the process of nixing the no child left behind act. oh yeah, got bin laden too. deportation of illegal immigrants are at record highs. punishing businesses who hire illegal immigrants. told the bankrupt auto companies to shut the @!$%# up and do what he said or they weren't in business no more. give him another term, he'll do more...

                                    • 1 vote
                                    #6.16 - Mon Dec 5, 2011 2:14 AM EST
                                    king jester

                                    so to answer the question he has not reversed any of bush's policys correct?

                                      #6.17 - Mon Dec 5, 2011 2:39 AM EST
                                      joe420er

                                      why sure....i mentioned the iraq war, right? plus it's kinda hard to do @!$%# with the party of no standin in the way...

                                      • 1 vote
                                      #6.18 - Mon Dec 5, 2011 2:39 AM EST
                                      king jester

                                      if you look we havent ended the war yet, and he still wont bring the troops home, they will be redeployed in the area to be ready to storm back in. plus with all the other wars in the area obama has commited us to they can not leave.

                                      so let me get this correct. obama gets a pass because republicans have been in control for 1 of his 3 years. but bush had democrates in control for half his term.

                                        #6.19 - Mon Dec 5, 2011 2:48 AM EST
                                        joe420er

                                        we're in the process of withdrawing from both iraq and afghanistan...we're not committed anywhere...and after looking over the bush policies and obama's handling of them, i have to agree, he hasn't done anything about them...it's disappointing to say the least...however, it's also foolhardy to lay our troubles at his feet, since he didn't start any of it...

                                          #6.20 - Mon Dec 5, 2011 3:04 AM EST
                                          king jester

                                          he may not of started any of them, but he hasnt done anything about them so he is just as guilty as bush

                                            #6.21 - Mon Dec 5, 2011 3:06 AM EST
                                            joe420er

                                            don't know about that...if i was in his position in this time and era, i would've kept some of bush's policies too...like the patriot act, it makes sense when you consider how far terrorists can go, even if it is unconstitutional. he sure didn't start any wars...don't get me wrong, it's not like i'm in love with the guy. i'm a pothead, i love to smoke it up, and he says i don't got any rights. go figure. for me, the best president was clinton...in my personal experience, anyway. jfk still seems to be the legendary best...

                                            • 1 vote
                                            #6.22 - Mon Dec 5, 2011 3:13 AM EST
                                            Jim44

                                            Joe you seem to have a thing for Presidents with Zero respect for marriage vows ...

                                              #6.23 - Mon Dec 5, 2011 4:55 AM EST
                                              joe420er

                                              ;)

                                              what a man does on the side outside of politics does not define him as a leader...what he does as a leader of the people in politics defines him in his role of presidency...who cares if they cheated? nobody was physically harmed as a result...

                                                #6.24 - Mon Dec 5, 2011 5:02 AM EST
                                                Jim44

                                                So you have no problem with Newt? And his personal indiscretions?

                                                  #6.25 - Mon Dec 5, 2011 6:04 AM EST
                                                  joe420er

                                                  oh yeah, i do...guy's a complete failure as a leader...no way, dude...i'm looking for people with true leadership skills, not some incompetent @!$%#up. it's obvious he's a @!$%# up. obama wasn't obviously a @!$%#up. clinton wasn't obviously a @!$%#up. they were good leaders.

                                                  • 1 vote
                                                  #6.26 - Mon Dec 5, 2011 11:12 AM EST
                                                  king jester

                                                  i agree clinton wasnt half bad, but obama hasnt lead anything. its the republicans that have controlled the show, he is just along for the ride.

                                                    #6.27 - Mon Dec 5, 2011 12:08 PM EST
                                                    joe420er

                                                    well, all i got to say is obama has done more good in 3 years than bush ever did in 8 years...

                                                      #6.28 - Mon Dec 5, 2011 1:12 PM EST
                                                      king jester

                                                      all he has done is support bush policys and cried about the right. thats all he has done. he has done nothing to fight the evil right. wait he put on a show of fighting them then caved into what they wanted him to do.

                                                        #6.29 - Mon Dec 5, 2011 2:06 PM EST
                                                        Angry Left-532262

                                                        Here king check this out.

                                                        http://whatthe@!$%#hasobamadonesofar.com/

                                                          #6.30 - Mon Dec 5, 2011 2:36 PM EST
                                                          king jester

                                                          i would love to read your link, not sure if i need to change something on it or not, but it doesnt do anything when i click it.

                                                            #6.31 - Tue Dec 6, 2011 12:50 AM EST
                                                            Angry Left-532262

                                                            works fine here.....

                                                              #6.32 - Tue Dec 6, 2011 12:56 AM EST
                                                              king jester

                                                              this is what i see the webaddress has whatthe@$%#hasobamadonesofar

                                                              is there a word filter i need to turn off?

                                                                #6.33 - Tue Dec 6, 2011 1:03 AM EST
                                                                Gulliver's Island

                                                                is there a word filter i need to turn off?

                                                                Go to your Newsvine account settings (it's that page you get where you can set your bio, etc.) and set the the profanity filter to the "off" setting.

                                                                  #6.34 - Tue Dec 6, 2011 1:29 AM EST
                                                                  king jester

                                                                  thanks for the help, neat little website.

                                                                    #6.35 - Tue Dec 6, 2011 2:22 AM EST
                                                                    johny-388777

                                                                    Some of the commentary on Obama say the buck stops with the President.

                                                                    Does anyone here actually understand how the government works?

                                                                    Just remember all this has been stewing for 30 years. Obama has only 4 years behind him as president. Though I am not exactly happy with his performance. Its much better then the nutjobs against him. The far right are so far right that they are crazy.

                                                                    Why are they so crazy, Its all that money. The big pay that CEOs and executives have been getting is being used. Where? To make them so crazy. They are wipped up into a frenzy. Its the lotto mania , Why do you think Newt and Boehner go crazy. So much cash.

                                                                    The CEO power and executive power is so great. The money is so great. How else could the biggest fraud in the history of the world occured and we get, they are too big to fail cr+p.

                                                                    • 3 votes
                                                                    #6.36 - Tue Dec 6, 2011 10:47 AM EST
                                                                    Gulliver's Island

                                                                    Some of the commentary on Obama say the buck stops with the President.

                                                                    I don't know if you are specifically referring to any comments that I have made with regard to this topic, but I include the president in the list of suspects responsible for this mess. Although, his is more guilt of omission than commission.

                                                                    The president is a really smart man from what I am told by everyone, and having read one of his books, I do believe he is a very smart man. I think he is smart enough to know what is happening to the Post Office, its implications for mail delivery, labor unions, pensions and health care. Yet, the Democrats and the White House have been silent about this. Why is that?

                                                                    Could one possible reason be how tight the White House is with the CEO of Fed Ex?

                                                                    Here's an article from Bloomberg back on Feb 4, 2010:

                                                                    Feb. 11 (Bloomberg) -- President Barack Obama, when asked to name a chief executive he admires, chose one with an unusual pedigree: FedEx Corp.'s Frederick Smith, who raised more than $100,000 for 2008 Republican presidential nominee John McCain and was George W. Bush's fraternity brother.

                                                                    "He's an example of somebody who is thinking long term," the president said in an interview with Bloomberg BusinessWeek, adding that he "really enjoyed talking" with Smith at a Feb. 4 White House luncheon.

                                                                    And apparently the feelings are mutal:

                                                                    "He's a very likable gentleman," Smith said of Obama. "He's clearly brilliant and I think he's very -- I've been asked this many times the little bit I've been around him, whether I thought he is pro-business. I think he's very pro-business. ... I think he very much wants American business to prosper."

                                                                    Fed-Ex has one of the worst relations with labor in the USA. I mean, it is one of the worst companies in the world to work for. They treat the guys who deliver packages as private contractors, denying them overtime pay and avoiding paying payroll taxes for them and things like that.

                                                                    Obama likes this guy? No wonder Obama is going to look the other way while the Post Office implodes under the weight of a right wing engineered bankruptcy.

                                                                    • 2 votes
                                                                    #6.37 - Tue Dec 6, 2011 11:40 AM EST
                                                                    Reply
                                                                    Justice4all "Not"

                                                                    I have had so much trouble with my post office, I don't blaim anyone for using anouther carrier. My packages are allways broken, never checked in or out at my post office for tracking, and held onto for days befor delivery. My town sent one package back out of town insted of delivering it, I complained. When they got the package back they sent it accross the country, I complained again to usps and they tell me I have to fix it with the people at my post office. Now if the problem is with my post office, what good would it do to tell them what they allready know there doing. Right now I have a package comming and made them send it in my boyfriends name, to his mothers house, so posibly I can get it without it being broken. It's insured for $200. but I know it would be a big fight with them to be re-imbursed. Just like the rest of the country, Justice is not for all!

                                                                    • 4 votes
                                                                    Reply#7 - Sun Dec 4, 2011 11:28 AM EST
                                                                    Tappy McWidestance

                                                                    I have no problems with my post office. They deliver my mail quickly, are always courteous at the counter and deliver for 95% less than my other options.

                                                                    • 1 vote
                                                                    #7.1 - Sun Dec 4, 2011 2:12 PM EST
                                                                    Palmquist1

                                                                    Your should see what I get from UPS. If your don't know how to pack your package will break. And to blame the Post offices went someone doesn't do their job is wrong this goes on in every company.

                                                                      #7.2 - Sun Dec 4, 2011 2:17 PM EST
                                                                      johny-388777

                                                                      If the Fed and state government was forced to only use the UPSP , then i think it would be alot more profitable. What happens is the right wing nuts in the government use UPS or Fedex.

                                                                      • 2 votes
                                                                      #7.3 - Tue Dec 6, 2011 10:57 AM EST
                                                                      Reply
                                                                      Little Sure Shot

                                                                      The closest thing I get to personal mail is a birthday card from my insurance company each year.

                                                                      • 3 votes
                                                                      Reply#8 - Sun Dec 4, 2011 11:47 AM EST
                                                                      Geek_on_the_wing

                                                                      As usual, the government's solution is to increase the cost and decrease the quality of service. They want to close processing centers, eliminate Saturday delivery, and raise postage.

                                                                      My solution? Let the Postal Service go bankrupt. Then they will be able to nullify their excessively generous union contracts, fire their excess employees, and make changes to their pension and other benefits packages to bring them in line with what private-sector employees receive.

                                                                      The other option would be to entirely privatize the USPS. Once free of the stranglehold imposed by their current union contracts, I'm sure there would be no shortage of private-sector companies interested in taking it over.

                                                                      • 3 votes
                                                                      Reply#9 - Sun Dec 4, 2011 11:48 AM EST
                                                                      Checkmate-983933

                                                                      By me in NJ, there are one too many post offices and the post office got the last laugh. Here's what happened.

                                                                      You had a main post office and a branch that was less than 5 blocks away from each other in the same town. The branch was supposed to close down. People complained that they wanted it mainly because they were too lazy to travel to 5 blocks. So what happened? The branch is still open, BUT they changed the hours to f*** with the people! They are open 8-3 almost every day, and they're closed on Saturday. They used to be open until 4:30-5 and opened until noon on Saturday. Fewer people go there now.

                                                                      • 2 votes
                                                                      #9.1 - Sun Dec 4, 2011 12:26 PM EST
                                                                      Naughtia

                                                                      geek, you see to be misinformed, the only thing wrong with the post office(and mind you it is self funding but has to apply to raise rates, LET THAT RATTLE AROUND IN YOUR HEAD FOR A BIT.. maybe a bit longer if you are a fox news watcher) is right wingerism. Bush signed a law making them pay for 75 years of health care upfront. THAT WOULD KILL ANY CORPORATION ON THE PLANET.

                                                                      • 3 votes
                                                                      #9.2 - Sun Dec 4, 2011 1:28 PM EST
                                                                      Darkdonnie

                                                                      Bush signed a law making them pay for 75 years of health care upfront. THAT WOULD KILL ANY CORPORATION ON THE PLANET.

                                                                      It was co-sponsored by dems, and every dem in both houses raised no objections what so ever!

                                                                      Keep spinning this, it makes you look foolish!

                                                                      • 2 votes
                                                                      #9.3 - Sun Dec 4, 2011 2:45 PM EST
                                                                      gmross

                                                                      The only sponor on the bill was a Republican. Try again.

                                                                      • 1 vote
                                                                      #9.4 - Sun Dec 4, 2011 2:48 PM EST
                                                                      king jester

                                                                      there was a republican sponsor and 4 co- sponsores. please try to read all the details

                                                                      • 2 votes
                                                                      #9.5 - Sun Dec 4, 2011 2:52 PM EST
                                                                      Darkdonnie

                                                                      The only sponor on the bill was a Republican. Try again.

                                                                      Where is your link to this information? Or should we take your word for this?

                                                                      • 2 votes
                                                                      #9.6 - Sun Dec 4, 2011 3:51 PM EST
                                                                      gmross

                                                                      H.R. 6407: Postal Accountability and Enhancement Act

                                                                      109th Congress: 2005-2006

                                                                      To reform the postal laws of the United States.

                                                                      Sponsor: Rep. Thomas Davis [R-VA11]

                                                                      This bill became law. It was signed by George Bush.

                                                                      • 2 votes
                                                                      #9.7 - Sun Dec 4, 2011 3:58 PM EST
                                                                      Darkdonnie

                                                                      Neither of these links are relevant, try again!

                                                                      This is what you are looking for!

                                                                      http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d109:HR06407:@@@P

                                                                      COSPONSORS(3), ALPHABETICAL [followed by Cosponsors withdrawn]:

                                                                      Rep Davis, Danny K. [IL-7] - 12/7/2006
                                                                      Rep McHugh, John M. [NY-23] - 12/7/2006
                                                                      Rep Waxman, Henry A. [CA-30] - 12/7/2006

                                                                      • 1 vote
                                                                      #9.8 - Sun Dec 4, 2011 4:45 PM EST
                                                                      gmross

                                                                      I posted the headline off of the post Donny, the information above shows the Republican who sponsored the bill and the president that signed the bill and during what congress ie, the 109th congress.

                                                                        #9.9 - Sun Dec 4, 2011 9:07 PM EST
                                                                        king jester

                                                                        yes and ignores the democrates that co sponsored the bill, or the democrat sub commitee that took the bill and ran with it. or the 210 democrates that voted in favor of the bill, and the democrate controlled senate that voted and passed this bill all before the president even got to see it

                                                                        • 1 vote
                                                                        #9.10 - Sun Dec 4, 2011 10:09 PM EST
                                                                        Reply
                                                                        Dot-820782

                                                                        We will just have to adjust . No big deal.

                                                                          Reply#10 - Sun Dec 4, 2011 11:51 AM EST
                                                                          WILDWONDERFUL

                                                                          And we want the government to take over Healthcare ?

                                                                          • 3 votes
                                                                          Reply#11 - Sun Dec 4, 2011 1:10 PM EST
                                                                          Naughtia

                                                                          If you would have read a couple comments, THIS PROVES WHY WE SHOULD NOT LET RIGHT WINGERS RUN THE COUNTRY.

                                                                          right wingers like wildwonderful, claim government is the problem and then they get elected and prove it.

                                                                          Bush(R) SIgned a law stating the post office had to PREFUND 75 years of health care. THINK YOU COULD PREFUND 75 years of your own health care? why not? having gotten 75 years of paychecks? BOOOHOOO pay it anyways.

                                                                          This is what right wingers do, they "starve the beast" they get the government in so much debt with their right wingerism, and then they blame this "the government" as the @!$%# hits the fan.

                                                                          WELL CONGRATS, RIGHT WINGERS IN CONTROL OF EVERY BRANCH OF GOVERNMENT, SUCCEEDED IN MAKING THE POST OFFICE SO SMALL YOU COULD DROWN IT IN A BATH TUB AND NOW THEY WANT TO DROWN IT.

                                                                          Most of our problems come from the 109th congress when republicans had total control.

                                                                          • 6 votes
                                                                          #11.1 - Sun Dec 4, 2011 1:31 PM EST
                                                                          WILDWONDERFUL

                                                                          It is so amazing to see all the Democrats know is the blame game.

                                                                          • 4 votes
                                                                          #11.2 - Sun Dec 4, 2011 1:46 PM EST
                                                                          Tappy McWidestance

                                                                          Hahaha. The right wing is blaming the employees at the USPS. You know, those darn unions fighting for a living wage and good working conditions.

                                                                          The blame for this really does lay with Congress no matter how much you wish it didn't.

                                                                          • 3 votes
                                                                          #11.3 - Sun Dec 4, 2011 2:15 PM EST
                                                                          Darkdonnie

                                                                          The blame for this really does lay with Congress no matter how much you wish it didn't.

                                                                          And who voted for this in congress Barack Obama, Hillary Clinton along with every dem in both houses! hmmmm

                                                                          • 2 votes
                                                                          #11.4 - Sun Dec 4, 2011 2:48 PM EST
                                                                          Tappy McWidestance

                                                                          I don't understand your argument Darkdonnie. Do you now agree Congress is to blame?

                                                                          • 1 vote
                                                                          #11.5 - Sun Dec 4, 2011 8:03 PM EST
                                                                          Darkdonnie

                                                                          Congress with aid of both parties and the input from the postal union did vote this in. And this law using a set amount for the pensions is some of the problem but not all or most.

                                                                          Their high labor costs for what they provide is what is at fault mostly. They need to adjust their labor to match the times and the changing market and commensurate pay to job preformed.

                                                                          • 1 vote
                                                                          #11.6 - Sun Dec 4, 2011 8:43 PM EST
                                                                          johny-388777

                                                                          Naughtia If you would have read a couple comments, THIS PROVES WHY WE SHOULD NOT LET RIGHT WINGERS RUN THE COUNTRY.

                                                                          So beautifully said. The right wingers are going to follow there ideology if it kills the whole populace. They only care for themselves and to be bring new meaning to corporate whoredom.That is everything is for sale. Kochsucking to a new high. Thanks Newt, thanks Boehner.

                                                                          • 3 votes
                                                                          #11.7 - Tue Dec 6, 2011 11:00 AM EST
                                                                          Reply
                                                                          Angry Left-532262

                                                                          The post office is pretty useless. Who in the hell mails letters any longer? All I ever get in the mail is ads. That's it.

                                                                          My bills are all paid online, if a friend or relative wants to send me a letter they use this wonderful thing called email.

                                                                          The only thing that gets delivered is packages, and thats all done through UPS, Fed Ex or DHL.

                                                                          The USPS is obsolete and needs to die.

                                                                          • 2 votes
                                                                          Reply#12 - Sun Dec 4, 2011 1:29 PM EST
                                                                          joe420er

                                                                          same here...except for netflix. nobody's takin my movies from me...well, i hope, anyway.

                                                                          • 1 vote
                                                                          #12.1 - Sun Dec 4, 2011 1:32 PM EST
                                                                          Angry Left-532262

                                                                          Yeah...netflix. I forgot about that...but even that is heading towards a streaming only service.

                                                                          • 2 votes
                                                                          #12.2 - Sun Dec 4, 2011 1:39 PM EST
                                                                          joe420er

                                                                          hope not...most streaming movies they have aren't subtitled, and i can't hear. need them dvd's for the closed captions...

                                                                          • 1 vote
                                                                          #12.3 - Sun Dec 4, 2011 1:40 PM EST
                                                                          Naughtia

                                                                          live in a city I see and assume everyone does?
                                                                          you send emails and assume everyone does.
                                                                          heck why dont the elderly learn computers already right?

                                                                          The USPS is not obsolete despite you choose to not use it. It's astounding that you think it is simply because of your experience. it is like saying job training is obsolete simply because you never used the service in your life. For someone called angry left, your comment sure sounds like angry right.

                                                                          You do realize the post office, unlike the rest of gov, is self funding. WE BUY STAMPS TO MAIL. The post office is basically free to us. The could simply "let market forces determine mailing rates" or in republican terms, raise their rates. YOU DO GET THIS RIGHT? It's like any other business, except it was commissioned by the government.

                                                                          Last you do realize that the only problem with the post office right now, is that Bush said that they had to come up with 75 years of health care payments upfront, unlike any other gov agency or any other private corp on the planet.

                                                                          this would kill any business. YOU DO ALSO KNOW AT THE SAME TIME THE BUSH FORBADE THE POST OFFICE FROM RAISING RATES?

                                                                          OK WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU GIVE A BUSINESS A BILL FOR 75 YEARS OF HEALTH CARE COSTS(one of the largest costs to any business) AND THEN FORBID THEM FROM RAISING THEIR RATES.

                                                                          • 2 votes
                                                                          #12.4 - Sun Dec 4, 2011 1:42 PM EST
                                                                          Angry Left-532262

                                                                          I would like to see a poll...how many of the people who are all for keeping USPS afloat, I would assume older people living in the country, would also like to see AMTRAK close it's doors.

                                                                          Because old hicks can't figure out an email we should cater to them???

                                                                          AMTRAK service is actually useful and should be expanded....USPS should go away, just like the pony express and the buggy whip makers.

                                                                          • 3 votes
                                                                          #12.5 - Sun Dec 4, 2011 1:53 PM EST
                                                                          Infohack

                                                                          As a small business owner, I ship most things via USPS. I don't do enough volume to qualify for commercial discounts through UPS or FedEx, and Priority Mail is a good medium in terms of cost and expediency.

                                                                          Regardless, we shouldn't be adding anyone to the rolls of the unemployed right now, and if USPS wasn't being saddled with unreasonable costs in having to pre-pay health benefits and pensions (see comment #4), they would be very nearly in the black in terms of operating costs, even during a recession.

                                                                          • 2 votes
                                                                          #12.6 - Sun Dec 4, 2011 2:04 PM EST
                                                                          gmross

                                                                          Angry, read post 1.9 above and go to the links provided there, this might inlighten you to a few things. Then see if you still want to see the post office closed, or if you want to see a certain bill repealed.

                                                                          • 1 vote
                                                                          #12.7 - Sun Dec 4, 2011 2:05 PM EST
                                                                          scar_tissue

                                                                          Because old hicks can't figure out an email we should cater to them???

                                                                          *Old hicks*? Nice. Is that how you refer to or speak to your parents or grandparents or (judging by the GenY 'tude) great-grandparents?

                                                                          Maybe they can't afford a computer, living below poverty level, dependent upon SSA & SNAP to survive, b/c they got screwed out of pensions, & never had stock portfolios b/c they were simply lower- or middle-class citizens for whom such things were out of reach, or 401k's b/c that stuff didn't exist even when I began working & I'm not near retirement age by a long shot.

                                                                          Joe up there said he's hearing-impaired. Ever stop to think some ppl are vision-impaired? Or were smited w/ some other handicap like, o I don't know, Parkinson's disease, muscular dystrophy, Huntington's chorea, peripheral neuropathy, cerebral palsy, to cite a few that would make it difficult to type, use a mouse or trackball, or even sit at a computer?

                                                                          Those conditions & many more wouldn't apply to just *old hicks*. Ppl in handicapped housing & assisted living still have bills to pay & still might like to get a magazine, newspaper, or send Xmas cards, etc.

                                                                          Some ppl are unfortunate enough to be all alone in the world w/ no one to *do* for them. Did you not read the objections made by a pharmacist regarding mailing scrips to elderly ppl in rural areas who lived 100 mi from the nearest drugstore & couldn't be expected to drive in brutal winter weather for 4 hrs just to pick up meds?

                                                                          Don't tell them to move. I'm sure if they could afford to, they just might. What seems like a fine place to live when you're 21 & full of piss & vinegar may not be so great 50 yrs later, but it's home, & you pd for it, & you own it free & clear & you don't have the $ to relocate b/c the economy sucks & no one wants to buy your house in the middle of sm-town America where there are no jobs.

                                                                          Did it ever occur to you that there are still places in the US that don't even have running water &/or electricity, let alone internet access?

                                                                          Yes, there are lots of areas in this country that are more like the 3rd World than anything you might be accustomed to seeing, & it's done on purpose by the US govt b/c it's just a bunch of damned Mexicans, white trash hillbillies, or Indians stuck on a reservation, who cares if they're ringed by luxury subdivisions, the govt isn't spending the $ to run those pipes & cables a few more mi b/c that's how the govt is, we don't take care of our own. Virginia, for Pete's sake, the 1st state that was settled back in 1607, still has mountainous areas w/ no modern conveniences, never mind the Southwest & those Injuns all over the place. Let em suffer. Look it up if you don't believe it.

                                                                          Even where there is internet access available, in some places it's just dialup b/c the cables haven't been laid for anything else. A friend who lives 10 min away from me can't get DSL, living in one of the biggest 'burbs in the area, b/c they haven't gotten to his neighborhood yet. And this is a reasonably lg metropolitan area & he's smack btwn 2 of the state's lgr cities, 15 min in either direction, & about an hr from another one. He's paying thru the nose for crappy, unreliable satellite service, more than 4x ($80/mo) what DSL costs, b/c he refuses to pay $25/mo to AOL for freakin' dialup.

                                                                          Luckily he has a good job & can afford that option. Others can't. But you bet those rich folk in their pastoral rural enclaves filled w/ million $ homes on wooded acres, lakeside vacation *cottages*, & mtn vacation *chalets* already have FIOS. $ talks.

                                                                          The little isolated box in which you live is not the be-all & end-all of the world, let alone the US. Get out more, open your eyes. Not only would elimination of USPS be a catastrophe for some folks, it would be right in line w/ the GOP *starve the beast* 'tude b/c it's going to once again hit those who can least afford it the hardest. What else is new?

                                                                          • 4 votes
                                                                          #12.8 - Sun Dec 4, 2011 6:25 PM EST
                                                                          Angry Left-532262

                                                                          Did it ever occur to you that there are still places in the US that don't even have running water &/or electricity, let alone internet access?

                                                                          I bet every one of them is in one of those deep south "red" states.

                                                                          Don't blame me for their backwardsness, they like it that way.

                                                                          Did you know you can go to the library (if your @!$%# hole town has one) and access the internet for free....

                                                                            #12.9 - Sun Dec 4, 2011 7:04 PM EST
                                                                            scar_tissue

                                                                            I bet every one of them is in one of those deep south "red" states.

                                                                            You'd be wrong.

                                                                            Actually, you'd know, had you bothered to look it up.

                                                                            Don't blame me for their backwardsness, they like it that way.

                                                                            No one was blaming you for anything.

                                                                            Tho now I do question why on Earth you would make such a callous statement about your fellow Americans.

                                                                            No, actually they don't *like it that way*.

                                                                            The Indians in California are esp pissed b/c their reservation is surrounded by luxury homes w/ several bathrms & yet they literally have to carry buckets of water for miles.

                                                                            But it's deemed *too expensive* to run the pipes over the rez line & connect them.

                                                                            Contrary to popular opinion, Indians don't live in tipis anymore.

                                                                            They're quite civilized.

                                                                            They want modern conveniences.

                                                                            They're American citizens.

                                                                            They didn't choose to live where they are, the US govt made them move to some of the crappiest lands in the country.

                                                                            And for over 100 yrs they've not had the most basic of modern conveniences, running water.

                                                                            I know you didn't bother to look this up b/c that article is the 1st hit. You got your flush toilet & you don't much care who doesn't, right?

                                                                            Did you know you can go to the library (if your @!$%# hole town has one) and access the internet for free....

                                                                            I sincerely hope you weren't implying *I* live in a *@!$%# hole town* as you so charmingly phrased it. That could be considered *inflammatory*.

                                                                            Did you know some ppl can't drive or even walk? Are you volunteering to make sure all the ppl in your community who'd have trouble getting to the library would have transportation if USPS goes under, or is that just a *talking pt*?

                                                                            • 2 votes
                                                                            #12.10 - Sun Dec 4, 2011 8:26 PM EST
                                                                            joe420er

                                                                            unfortunately, indians are not american citizens...they are their own sovereign people within america, subject to their own laws and rules and are pretty much considered foreigners...i mean, they are treated as such, aren't they...their reservations are considered their own land separate from the united states...

                                                                              #12.11 - Sun Dec 4, 2011 8:54 PM EST
                                                                              scar_tissue

                                                                              They were finally granted American citizenship in the 1940s. They're subject to the same US laws as anyone else, they serve in the US military (Navajo Code Talkers ring a bell?), & they're not *foreigners* at all. They were here 1st.

                                                                              Tho the reservations are theoretically considered *sovereign nation*, that only applies until something valuable's discovered there. Then the US can take the land back *for the good of the country*.

                                                                              • 1 vote
                                                                              #12.12 - Mon Dec 5, 2011 1:30 PM EST
                                                                              joe420er

                                                                              thanks...didn't know they were granted citizenship...of course the code talkers ring a bell, i love the fact that they helped during the war, as did the american japanese boys from hawaii...and i don't consider them foreigners...if anything, we're the foreigners (and i'm hawaiian...well, half hawaiian, anyway)...was just pointing out how they're treated by our government...even you mention that our government reserves the right to take away additional land from them in this day and age...

                                                                                #12.13 - Mon Dec 5, 2011 1:36 PM EST
                                                                                johny-388777

                                                                                This is the same setup like Fannie mae and Freddie Mac. The Republicans tried every Ruse to blame them. The real problem is that they followed policy and bought junk that was rated AAA+ by the criminal rating agencies.

                                                                                The banks imploded and then got saved. Some how the idioicy from the republican side did the darn best to shift the blame. Can you blame them?

                                                                                The huge CEO pay over the decades is coming back to the congress in bribes to do there bidding. ITs lotto money for the congress members. How can you blame them for the big cash for the little politicians.

                                                                                • 2 votes
                                                                                #12.14 - Tue Dec 6, 2011 11:04 AM EST
                                                                                Reply
                                                                                American Latina

                                                                                A lot of people get their prescriptions through the mail.. The postal service needs to remain solvent.

                                                                                • 3 votes
                                                                                Reply#13 - Sun Dec 4, 2011 1:58 PM EST
                                                                                Angry Left-532262

                                                                                They can get their prescriptions through UPS or fed-ex...probably quicker and more reliably.

                                                                                • 2 votes
                                                                                #13.1 - Sun Dec 4, 2011 2:02 PM EST
                                                                                gmross

                                                                                Angry, the UPS uses the USPS to make some of its deliveries because the UPS doesn't go everywhere that the USPS does, so, again rethink this and read post 1.9 and go to the links listed in the post.

                                                                                • 3 votes
                                                                                #13.2 - Sun Dec 4, 2011 2:07 PM EST
                                                                                chitownty

                                                                                And a lot more expensive for people living on a fixed income.But why should you give a sh*t about that,right?

                                                                                • 2 votes
                                                                                #13.3 - Sun Dec 4, 2011 2:10 PM EST
                                                                                gmross

                                                                                Angry try doing some reading before you say the post office should be shut down.

                                                                                http://www.govtrack.us/congress/billtext.xpd?bill=h109-6407

                                                                                  #13.4 - Sun Dec 4, 2011 2:18 PM EST
                                                                                  Angry Left-532262

                                                                                  Whoever killed it...I don't care. All this uproar over the USPS going away.

                                                                                  Like I said it amazes me the the people screaming to save the USPS are usually the same people wanting to kill AMTRAK.

                                                                                  Their arguments sound almost exactly like mine....obsolete, inefficient and only used by a certain group of people.

                                                                                  • 1 vote
                                                                                  #13.5 - Sun Dec 4, 2011 2:22 PM EST
                                                                                  gmross

                                                                                  Angry imagine if every corporation was made to pay pensions 75 years in advance at 5.5 billion dollars a year every year until the 75 year goal was reached, how long do you think the corporations would be in business? Not very long, this is what this bill 6407 does to the post office. Thank a Republican for this.

                                                                                  • 1 vote
                                                                                  #13.6 - Sun Dec 4, 2011 2:33 PM EST
                                                                                  king jester

                                                                                  gmross not all corps have a strong union lobbying to protect their money. so blame the unions cause if it wasnt for them all this could be fixed

                                                                                  • 2 votes
                                                                                  #13.7 - Sun Dec 4, 2011 2:39 PM EST
                                                                                  Darkdonnie

                                                                                  Like I said it amazes me the the people screaming to save the USPS are usually the same people wanting to kill AMTRAK.

                                                                                  I don't want to kill either one of them but they need to pay their own way or just go away. We cannot afford any more charity for this kind of BS.

                                                                                  Raise the price of stamps to cover their cost. fine with me. raise it enough and I will pick the cheapest. I already send out the same amount to both USPS and UPS and Fed EX combined. Which ever is the most efficient should win, right?

                                                                                  Or should we keep one just to provide union jobs to government workers? It would probably be cheaper to pay them to stay home and let UPS do the job. That might be overreaching, break even is closer.

                                                                                  • 3 votes
                                                                                  #13.8 - Sun Dec 4, 2011 4:01 PM EST
                                                                                  johny-388777

                                                                                  Its a fact. The republicans and blue dog democrats are out to destroy what they can't privatize. Its sabotage.

                                                                                  They don't care if its not logical. They don't care who they hurt as long as its not them. The facts, smacks. Who cares. They just want it to be private.

                                                                                  Its an intense fight of ideology and dogma about the super people. Thats right. The fascists are back with the dogma of the super rich guy. Its funny when the reality hits and its through inheritance and theft. The bozo fest is here.

                                                                                  The fox news watchers think the incredible hulk is real.

                                                                                  • 2 votes
                                                                                  #13.9 - Tue Dec 6, 2011 11:08 AM EST
                                                                                  Reply
                                                                                  Thunder Storm

                                                                                  Those lazy ass Postal Workers have been riding that pony long enough. They shot themselves in the foot by their Unions demands. How do you allow something that big to go bankrupt? It appears almost intentional.

                                                                                  Their uniform allowance alone back in 1975 was around $400 a year. Do you really think they spent all of their uniform allowance on uniforms? Have you ever watched them doddle behind the counter taking their sweet time to wait on you.

                                                                                  Why don't they just quit delivering the mail on Saturdays. Why don't they quit giving uniform allowances. Why didn't they come up with an inventive way to get in on email.

                                                                                  Most government employee's are pretty much useless when it comes to misuse of funds. One need only look at Congress.

                                                                                  • 3 votes
                                                                                  Reply#14 - Sun Dec 4, 2011 1:59 PM EST
                                                                                  gmross

                                                                                  Before you blame the workers at the post office, take a look at House bill 6407 and who it was that passed this peice of Sh@@ and then make a comment.

                                                                                  • 1 vote
                                                                                  #14.1 - Sun Dec 4, 2011 2:20 PM EST
                                                                                  Darkdonnie

                                                                                  Before you blame the workers at the post office, take a look at House bill 6407 and who it was that passed this peice of Sh@@ and then make a comment.

                                                                                  Teddy, Obama and Clinton all voted for it, are they culpable. Of course all the dems voted for it along with the republicans. Dems co-sponsored and help write it. And the postal union blessed it.

                                                                                  What is your point?

                                                                                  • 2 votes
                                                                                  #14.2 - Sun Dec 4, 2011 4:04 PM EST
                                                                                  Thunder Storm

                                                                                  Thank you Darkdonnie...It is an inefficient beast that has choked on its own spew.

                                                                                  Unions ran it in the ground, and the Government let them by bending to their every demand. My ex-father-in-law was the VP of the Motor Vehicle Craft AFLCIO Union in Washington, during the Moe Billa (sp) days, he like many others abused the system.

                                                                                  Before he became a suit in Washington, he was a uniform wearing Postal (Truck and Trailer) Truck Driving Instructor in Los Angeles on Alameda. Why would they need a driving instructor, and why didn't they hire qualified drivers to begin with?

                                                                                  He began as a Union Steward. This is how and why I know so much about our Postal Service and its Union. He not only retired with the Postal Retirement, but also a Union one. How would you have liked to retire on 45,000 a year in 1972 from the Union and pull down a Postal one on top of it, and who do you think paid for it?

                                                                                    #14.3 - Tue Dec 6, 2011 10:43 AM EST
                                                                                    Reply
                                                                                    leonahardware

                                                                                    An interesting thought was shared with me by a coworker whose spouse works for the USPS. First, he shared with me the issues about the USPS having to immediately fund 75 years of healthcare benefits. By itself, that's completely ridiculous. No other industry, public or private is required to do that. So as the USPS slowly (or quickly, depending how you look at it) dies, private enterprise will begin to accelerate the delivery of regular mail. Then as the volume increases, businesses will be paying more for sending out their billings and advertisements every month. Businesses will complain about the cost of doing business increasing, then BAM! Households will begin paying to have their mail delivered.

                                                                                    Can you imagine having to pay to have your mail delivered? How about if you didn't pay?

                                                                                    • 5 votes
                                                                                    Reply#15 - Sun Dec 4, 2011 2:00 PM EST
                                                                                    Infohack

                                                                                    Can you imagine having to pay to have your mail delivered?

                                                                                    You might be on to something.

                                                                                    Look at what happened to television. We used to get it free over the airwaves (which are publicly-owned), with programming supported by advertising dollars. Then came subscription cable, at first because they provided additional programming that wasn't available. Now they sell advertising as well as collect subscription rates for even basic programing, and thanks to lobbyists getting legislation passed, television without a digital device no longer exists.

                                                                                    Now the GOP has a plan to use the public airwaves, the bands once used by broadcast radio and television, and sell them to the highest bidder.

                                                                                    So paid mail delivery service really isn't an idea that's all that far-fetched - Republicans want to privatize anything that has profit potential so they can sell it to their business associates at below market rates, The Indiana Toll Road is another example.

                                                                                    • 3 votes
                                                                                    #15.1 - Sun Dec 4, 2011 2:25 PM EST
                                                                                    scar_tissue

                                                                                    Good pt, leo.

                                                                                    They'd just hand it over to local municipalities & add it into property taxes like they do sewer & trash removal. Ppl would be forced to pay or have their houses repo'd & sold at auction for *back taxes*.

                                                                                    You'd likely see slumlords dumping properties & creating a housing crisis if that would happen.

                                                                                    Sm towns would go back to Little House on the Prairie days, where you had to go pick up your mail at the PO yourself, b/c they wouldn't be able to generate enough revenue to support local delivery of mail. Couldn't be just one guy, what happens when he gets sick &/or dies? How's he going to sort & deliver at the same time?

                                                                                    And who's going to bring the mail to the towns to disperse? There's where it's going to get expensive, b/c that'll be the *privitized* part that goes around emptying mailboxes, taking it to a central collection warehouse, sifting thru it, & sending it along to municipalities to sort & deliver or hold for ppl.

                                                                                    And where are they going to hold it if they can't afford delivery? Exisiting POs aren't going to be equipped w/ enough mailboxes for everyone.

                                                                                    And y'all do know that all the data USPS has gathered as far as ZIP codes & streets belongs to them, right? But they're forced to share it w/ UPS et al, otherwise those guys wouldn't know where to deliver your pkgs. USPS did all the work & absorbed the cost for this, not very fair that their competitors feed off this technology, is it? Who's going to continue w/ development of this as new streets & subdivisions get added in, if there's no USPS to do it? It's a big country & it ain't full up yet.

                                                                                    • 2 votes
                                                                                    #15.2 - Sun Dec 4, 2011 6:49 PM EST
                                                                                    Thunder Storm

                                                                                    How about those that want it delivered Pay, those that don't pick-it up at a P.O. Box that they rent?

                                                                                      #15.3 - Tue Dec 6, 2011 11:32 AM EST
                                                                                      Reply
                                                                                      Joan-1682891

                                                                                      The problem is that due to people paying bills online, due to Twitter and email, etc., the post office has a lot less business, but, the union representing the USPS says no one can ever be fired. So you have maybe 2/3rds more workers than you need that cannot be let go. That's why Darrell Issa forced the post office to fund 75 years of their pensions. He saw that the post office needs to fire about 2/3rds of its employees, and he knew they would not fire anyone, and that the post office would not be bringing in the money to pay those pensions, so he forced the post office to fund its pensions. Good for him. Now the post office threatens that the customers can no longer get next day delivery. It is supposed to inconvenience the public so badly that the public will agree to pay tax money to keep all of the postal employees employed, so that none of them get laid off. The post office is trying to get tax money instead of laying off workers. They are going to have to lay off workers like any business would do when their business is cut back.

                                                                                      • 3 votes
                                                                                      Reply#16 - Sun Dec 4, 2011 2:05 PM EST
                                                                                      scar_tissue

                                                                                      What a fable. No one's job is *fire-proof*, unionized or not. All a union means is there's a process that must be adhered to b4 firing someone to ensure it's a just termination for good cause, & not just b/c they can, like w/ *at will* employment lacking unions.

                                                                                      • 1 vote
                                                                                      #16.1 - Sun Dec 4, 2011 6:56 PM EST
                                                                                      Reply
                                                                                      Joan-1682891

                                                                                      The politicians should have done this with the state pensions. California has over 500 billion dollars in unfunded liabilities in state pension promises. CA pays police and firefighters $200,000 a year pensions, it pays house painters $100,000 a year pensions, office workers get $75,000 a year pensions, none of it is paid for. Now what?? People are already leaving CA due to high taxes. Our state sales tax is 9.5 percent. Our vehicle registration fees already tripled in the past few years. Property taxes have already gone way up. Now what?? If the state workers had been forced to pay for their pensions, CA would not be in this mess. And, 47 states are bankrupt from the pension promises. People say that well the people in Ohio showed the governor, the "union" workers, meaning government workers, showed him. Well, Ohio has no jobs, it has empty buildings, no tax reveneus. So the state workers want huge taxpayer pensions. You can't get blood out of a turnip. So they want all of that money? So? I want a 100K pension at 50 for having no education and for doing clerical work too. So?? Where's the money going to come from?? From no where.

                                                                                      • 2 votes
                                                                                      Reply#17 - Sun Dec 4, 2011 2:09 PM EST
                                                                                      thepipster

                                                                                      Don't sweat it. One of two things will happen: the state will declare bankruptcy and default on all that, or they will legalize marijuana, tax the heck out of it, and revitalize the economy with that money, the money saved in law enforcement and incarceration costs, and the huge influx of pot tourism dollars.

                                                                                      Or they'll do one and then the other LOL

                                                                                      • 1 vote
                                                                                      #17.1 - Sun Dec 4, 2011 2:25 PM EST
                                                                                      Joan-1682891

                                                                                      I thought of that too. CA would love to legalize pot and make a ton of money that way. I agree. Short of doing so, CA will have to declare bankruptcy soon. That debt in the state pensions does not cover the country pensions, which are in much worse shape than the state pensions. Los Angeles is banrupt, it can't pay the pensions, no way. Soon enough you will see all of these counties in CA declaring bankruptcy, then the state itself. Over 300,000 students were rejected from community colleges in CA because of cuts to classes and teachers being laid off to try and come up with a balanced budget, and even with those deep cuts, CA can't balance its budget. Bankruptcy here we come, along with 47 other states. The combined unfunded liabilities for state workers' pensions is 15 trillion dollars. This is what unions in government jobs has created.

                                                                                      • 1 vote
                                                                                      #17.2 - Sun Dec 4, 2011 2:31 PM EST
                                                                                      scar_tissue

                                                                                      Where are you getting 48 out of 50 states are bankrupt from?

                                                                                      • 2 votes
                                                                                      #17.3 - Sun Dec 4, 2011 6:58 PM EST
                                                                                      Joan-1682891

                                                                                      I saw the CEO of Starbucks admit that welfare has been subsidizing his low wage workers and that 47 states are bankrupt now. He was saying that low wage employers like Starbucks and Walmart can no longer count on the states to pay their workers Medicaid, Section 8 housing and food stamps. If you look at the three main expenses for every state, it is Medicaid, the prisons and education. Most everyone in prison comes from welfare families, Medicaid is welfare, so most of the state expenses comes from welfare. Add in the unfunded liabilities from the state pensions, there are 15 trillion dollars in combined unfunded liabilities in the state pensions. There's no money. My state turned over 300,000 new poor students away from community colleges last year due to budget cuts to the community colleges. So the cuts keep coming. We can either spend on educating those who want to do something with their lives or we can pay welfare and huge state pensions. There should be a cap on how many government pensions the baby boomers can get. I have also seen people in CA post in chatboards that their fire department went volunteer due to the retirees getting huge pensions and bonuses. One group takes all of the money when they retire and the entire fire department has to go under, go volunteer. Thank the unions getting into government jobs for that.

                                                                                      I had a mail carrier I never met, know nothing about, who decided she did not like being fat and did not like my being athletic, so she put in three mail forwards in on me over a period of a year. I didn't know who to contact, so I looked in the phone book, found Consumer Affairs and called them. They found out she commit crimes against me. Was she fired?? NO, no way because it is the post office, because of the union. If someone did that in the private sector, they would be fired and prosecuted for crimes. Same time, the post master general here is never around, he called me and told me that he saw what I look like when I went into the post office, he threatened to kill me over my contacting Consumer Affairs. I need this third world ganster criminal mental case stuff done to me for what good reason?? If not for it being the government and if not for their government union, none of those things would have been done to me. I'm 54, never been in any trouble with anybody. I need a post master general threatening me and a mail carrier committing crimes against me over everyone is fat and I'm not fat why?? I would get out of this place if I could. I'm terrified of living in a place like this. I don't need nor want any of this kind of stuff in my life, ever, for any reason. This is how bad the post office is. This is what happens when people cannot be fired no matter what they do. They commit crimes and threaten to kill you if you don't like it. I feel like I live in a third world country. I don't need any of this stuff in my life.

                                                                                        #17.4 - Mon Dec 5, 2011 11:39 AM EST
                                                                                        johny-388777

                                                                                        The big expenses are social expenses?

                                                                                        No problem . Can hear death cheer GOP.

                                                                                        Hey we just shoot them? The army can get training in real life combat situation.

                                                                                        WHy is that crazy? Sure is crazy. After reading the commentary about the bad government and good private corporations. Thats even more crazy.

                                                                                        WE just had the biggest fraud in the history of the world. Who cares. Its just some rich folk taking from the poor dumb folk. The bozo fest party continues. Why should the USA be any different. Through out history we had tyranny of kings and queens. Why not now.

                                                                                        They say. The old way is the best way. ;) The good old times.

                                                                                        • 3 votes
                                                                                        #17.5 - Tue Dec 6, 2011 11:27 AM EST
                                                                                        Joan-1682891

                                                                                        Social security and Medicare have 120 trillion dollars of unfunded liabilities. The states have combined unfunded liabilities of 15 trillion dollars. Soon one half of Americans will be on SS, Medicare and other government pensions, and with Hispanics dropping out of high school at four times the rate of other students and going onto welfare, I saw one guy on MSNBC say it will cost about 13 trillion dollars over time. So we have no educated young work force to pay the 140 million old people SS and Medicare nor to pay the state pensions nor to pay for the majority of young people ot be on welfare, and the prison costs, etc. associated with welfare.

                                                                                        I am a Ron Paul supporter so I am not for war profiteering, for wars for oil companies and for war corporations. I have no use for Fox, for people like Newt Gingrich. But, both parties have failed the country in different ways. Bush let the manufacturing jobs to go China between 2002-2008 and he invaded Iraq for the oil, illegally, and for Halibuton and other war corporations to make billions fo dollars. He fed and fed the rich. At the same time, the Dems' programs are not funded, they are all blowing up from debt because this country did not make higher education important for all of the people. So now we have a lot of high school dropouts at the same time that we have half of the country being old people looking to live on several govenmentpensions. These things worked as long as the educated 79 million baby boomers were all working and paying income taxes. Basically the baby boomers paid for the World War II generation to get state and federal pensions and social security and Medicare and they funded welfare, which is why the welfare programs were expanded so much. In those days we had a huge educated work force, so we could pay for these things. Today it is a very different situation, changing demographics. Both parties are at crash and burn. Obama runs up close to a trillion dollars a year in debt to prop up the states so that no one sees the states cannot pay those pensions while the Republican candidates want a war in Iran and Syria and anywhere else where there is oil. These are the real problems. I would rather we consider Libertarianism, consider Ron Paul. JMO.

                                                                                        The point is you can't defend oil wars and you can't defend entire populations living on welfare and you can't fund 140 million people being on SS and Medicare and on several government pensions. The things the Dems do are no more sane nor financially sound than the things the Repubs do. That's the problem. We need a new system of doing things, IMO.

                                                                                          #17.6 - Tue Dec 6, 2011 4:31 PM EST
                                                                                          Gulliver's Island

                                                                                          You didn't mention the post office once!

                                                                                          • 3 votes
                                                                                          #17.7 - Tue Dec 6, 2011 4:33 PM EST
                                                                                          gmross

                                                                                          Joan,

                                                                                          So we have no educated young work force to pay the 140 million old people SS and Medicare nor to pay the state pensions nor to pay for the majority of young people ot be on welfare, and the prison costs,

                                                                                          And the GOP think that it is wise to get rid of the Department of Education and the student loan program as well as the Pell Grant program. Tell me, how can if what you say above is true, how can the GOP want to end programs that will help the poor get an education that will benefit them and the country?

                                                                                          Now Joan concerning the Postal Service, have you heard of House bill 6407? This bill was passed during a Lame Duck session of congress in Dec. 2006 before the Democratic majority took power, this bill requires the Postal Service to put 5.5 billion dollars a year into the coffers of congress until the Postal Service has 75 years worth of pension payments made to pay postal workers, this is what is causeing the USPS to go under.

                                                                                          • 1 vote
                                                                                          #17.8 - Tue Dec 6, 2011 4:44 PM EST
                                                                                          Reply
                                                                                          thepipster

                                                                                          How about cut delivery of junk mail? I don't care if that never shows up....

                                                                                          • 4 votes
                                                                                          Reply#18 - Sun Dec 4, 2011 2:22 PM EST
                                                                                          Angry Left-532262

                                                                                          USPS loves junk mail....it makes most of their money.

                                                                                          • 1 vote
                                                                                          #18.1 - Sun Dec 4, 2011 2:23 PM EST
                                                                                          Dennis Kemmerer

                                                                                          thepipster wrote:

                                                                                          How about cut delivery of junk mail?

                                                                                          Unfortunately for those of us who dump it into the recycling every day that stuff accounts for 25 percent of USPS's revenue. (It does keep the local recyclers in business, though :).

                                                                                          If they were to cut that out, they'd have to make that up somewhere, likely by increasing the largest revenue source, which is first class mail (54 percent).

                                                                                          • 2 votes
                                                                                          #18.2 - Sun Dec 4, 2011 2:29 PM EST
                                                                                          thepipster

                                                                                          Well, if they only make money from junk mail, and they aren't going to deliver good mail, then let's shut this moneysuck down right now and open a brand new postal system from scratch, one that does not involve huge pension schemes for drones whose only virtue is longevity.

                                                                                          • 1 vote
                                                                                          #18.3 - Sun Dec 4, 2011 5:12 PM EST
                                                                                          scar_tissue

                                                                                          huge pension schemes for drones whose only virtue is longevity.

                                                                                          I can guesstimate your age just by that remark.

                                                                                          Up until the Reagan era, that was called *company loyalty* & *good employee* & *lifelong service*, & that was rewarded w/ a pension.

                                                                                          Nowadays ppl are *throwaways* to companies b/c they don't want longevity & loyalty b/c that'd mean they'd have to reward employees, so they keep firing & hiring new ones instead.

                                                                                          That isn't how the US workforce used to be, not too long ago.

                                                                                          Why do you think the unemployment rate has gotten so high? Very few ppl have a *gold watch* job these days. No one's employment is secure. No one's.

                                                                                          Y'all who don't care if it's going to cost you 20x what it does now to send your mom a Mother's Day card if USPS goes down the toilet need to think about that one long & hard.

                                                                                          • 3 votes
                                                                                          #18.4 - Sun Dec 4, 2011 7:05 PM EST
                                                                                          johny-388777

                                                                                          Yup. This here economy is dog eat dog. The dogs run the show now.

                                                                                          We have corporate whoredom and executives smoking crack and being as unproductive as they can be. Then they blame the peasant work force for the ills.

                                                                                          • 2 votes
                                                                                          #18.5 - Tue Dec 6, 2011 11:10 AM EST
                                                                                          Reply
                                                                                          Palmquist1

                                                                                          Joan I love went your talk about the Post Offices like your know what your are talking about. Union has made this country great. Why don't your turn off Fox because your are uniform person.

                                                                                            Reply#19 - Sun Dec 4, 2011 2:34 PM EST
                                                                                            buckeyenut-2225921

                                                                                            Wow! And I really mean WOW. I think post 19 speaks for itself.

                                                                                            The teachers union should be proud!

                                                                                            • 3 votes
                                                                                            #19.1 - Sun Dec 4, 2011 2:49 PM EST
                                                                                            king jester

                                                                                            yes we all need to bow down to the unions for with out them we would not of had a country to start with. our fore fathers wanted to do their own thing but thanks to the unions our country was saved and protected from these evil extreme mad men..

                                                                                            oh yes need to add the /sarc

                                                                                            unions have helped out, but they have also harmed just as much. they are an old out dated group that has served their purpose.

                                                                                            • 3 votes
                                                                                            #19.2 - Sun Dec 4, 2011 2:55 PM EST
                                                                                            Rockwater-1211171

                                                                                            buck,

                                                                                            Priceless, isn't it? Such a shining example.

                                                                                            • 1 vote
                                                                                            #19.3 - Sun Dec 4, 2011 3:05 PM EST
                                                                                            Darkdonnie

                                                                                            unions have helped out, but they have also harmed just as much. they are an old out dated group that has served their purpose.

                                                                                            I have no problem with private unions (as long as no one is forced to join or pay dues).

                                                                                            I have a big problem with public unions, there should be none!

                                                                                            • 2 votes
                                                                                            #19.4 - Sun Dec 4, 2011 4:11 PM EST
                                                                                            johny-388777

                                                                                            Ok. Darkdonnie ring up the police union. Tell them to quit. ha ha.

                                                                                            • 3 votes
                                                                                            #19.5 - Tue Dec 6, 2011 11:12 AM EST
                                                                                            Reply
                                                                                            buckeyenut-2225921

                                                                                            "for the first time in 40 years, eliminate the chance for stamped letters to arrive the next day."

                                                                                            If a stamped letter arrived to me next day, THAT would be a first in my 40 years.

                                                                                            • 2 votes
                                                                                            Reply#20 - Sun Dec 4, 2011 2:47 PM EST
                                                                                            Skidude

                                                                                            The problem with the post office is they are behind the times. Their service is great, but they have some problems. I work for the federal government as a manager with 25 years of experience and a related college degree. The Post office has better pay and benefits and retirement. They pay better than Fedex and UPS. Many of the postal jobs are unskilled or low level clerks with the same skill level as a retail cashier. The unions have their place, but postal workers are getting disproportionate pay for what they do. The personnel costs have bankrupted the postal service. The Postal Service needs to be restructured. I think they still have a place in government because in most countries the mail is a function of government. It's a vital service.

                                                                                            • 2 votes
                                                                                            Reply#21 - Sun Dec 4, 2011 2:53 PM EST
                                                                                            Joan-1682891

                                                                                            Sure. That's the problem. If the ONLY workers who can make a lot of money are ones in unions who get paid by taxpayers, then we have a problem. If private sector jobs can only afford to pay one-half or one-third as much as government jobs, that tells all of us that the government jobs are paying far too much only because the money comes from taxes. If the economy does not support paying private sector employees the high wages government workers get, that means government workers are way overpaid. Unions have no business in government jobs. Unions were run out of the trades in the 1970s because of the high wage and benefit demands they made. Today people in the trades are doing better than ever without unions. The unions had no where else to go, so they went to politicians and told them if they put unions into government jobs, that they would give them big money and that the government workers would vote Democrat. So it went on and on until people are retiring 20 years younger than private sector workers and they are getting 3-4 times more money in pensions than private sector workers, all on the backs of the taxpayers. It's a totally corrupt system. It's not a business that has to make a profit, it's a situation where a governor gives government employees whatever they ask for and raises taxes to pay for it. Unions have no place in government jobs. Imaginethe union for the post office demanding no one can ever be laid off. Imagine that going on in a business. It would close its doors, go under. Imagine demanding from a business that has to make a profit that every clerical worker gets a 75K a year pension and gets to retire in their 50s. It's all tax money, that's the only reason any of this is going on. Those state pensions pay so much that the state retirees are Ed Schultz's one percenters. I saw a retired firefighter on Ed Schultz's show say that he is a one percenter. It's like their free medical clinics. The people all have Medicaid, they are mainly obese folks, everyone has everything already. There are no more poor people. Poor people today is people purposely on big, huge welfare programs and "union" workers today are only government employees controlling governors and other politicians. The Dems are way in the past, the things they support do not exist anymore. How many people in the trades today are in unions?? None other than those who work for the government.

                                                                                            • 1 vote
                                                                                            #21.1 - Sun Dec 4, 2011 3:07 PM EST
                                                                                            scar_tissue

                                                                                            If private sector jobs can only afford to pay one-half or one-third as much as government jobs, that tells all of us that the government jobs are paying far too much only because the money comes from taxes.

                                                                                            No, I rather think that *tells us* corporate profits are worshipped like a god while employees are merely underpd wage slaves.

                                                                                            Back in the 70s UPS pd phenomenally well. A BF I had in college worked 3rd shift there loading trucks at time & a half (shift differential), PT wkends (F-Sa-Su, 3 days/wk) during the schl yr (Sept-mid-May), FT from mid-May to the end of Aug.

                                                                                            After 3 yrs of this (when we got together), he had not only pd his way thru the state college (which was around $375/semester then, plus books & expenses) w/ no help from his parents at all, acquired a good late model used car, but also bought a 2-family house near the state university campus & became a LL to 4 students at the then-outrageous rent of $400/mo for an upper 2BR w/ slopey ceilings, which covered his housing costs entirely. Min wage then was $1.90/hr when he started working there in June of 1975, $3/hr by Sept of 1979 when we hooked up.

                                                                                            They probably have barely tripled the pay there in the last 30 yrs, as they're not competitive in scale w/ USPS.

                                                                                            Unions were run out of the trades in the 1970s

                                                                                            They were not.

                                                                                            Imagine demanding from a business that has to make a profit that every clerical worker gets a 75K a year pension and gets to retire in their 50s.

                                                                                            Happened all the time in the private sector until we were saddled w/ *trickle-down economics*....or was that *voodoo economics*?

                                                                                            You're not concerned about the $5 mil severance pkgs CEOs get, but you'd begrudge a working stiff a pension? Um....there's something wrong here.

                                                                                            I saw a retired firefighter on Ed Schultz's show say that he is a one percenter.

                                                                                            Dunno who is this TV god you worship, but firefighters, police, teachers, & EMTs, despite having unions, are woefully underpd & are definitely not *1%-ers* by any stretch of the imagination. Maybe the fireman's wife had a better job than he did to get them there, if true, but he didn't get there on a govt paycheck.

                                                                                            like their free medical clinics. The people all have Medicaid, they are mainly obese folks,

                                                                                            BS. The income eligibility threshold on MA in NYS is $364 gross/mo for 1 person. MA costs are #1, nursing homes & end of life care for the elderly & disabled, #2, ppl on SSI b/c they've been disabled from birth or became disabled at a young age, #3, children w/ deadbeat dads whose mothers' *McJobs* qualify them.

                                                                                            Pt me to a chart that states there are *mainly obese folks* on MA. Spoken like someone who's been fortunate enough never to walk into a DSS office in her life & doesn't know anything about it except what she learns from talking heads on TV.

                                                                                            Poor people today is people purposely on big, huge welfare programs

                                                                                            Seriously? You really need to educate yourself on *big huge welfare programs* b/c they just don't exist.

                                                                                            That $364/mo I mentioned above is the max cash assistance grant for 1 person in NYS, & NY has been criticized for its *generous* assistance. The max SNAP benefit for 1 person is $50/wk.

                                                                                            Think ppl are getting *obese* on that? Think you could get 21 meals/wk out of $50?

                                                                                            Over 46 million Americans are on SNAP. The avg benefit is $134/mo per household. That's average, not everyone.

                                                                                            Why don't you give the fairly stagnant unemployment rate a gander? Saying ppl are poor *on purpose* is absurd.

                                                                                            You have no idea what you're talking about. None.

                                                                                            How many people in the trades today are in unions?? None other than those who work for the government.

                                                                                            Um, lots. The Teamsters are the lgst union in the country, if not the world.

                                                                                            • 1 vote
                                                                                            #21.2 - Sun Dec 4, 2011 7:36 PM EST
                                                                                            Skidude

                                                                                            Joan, I am not sure where you are getting your information. $75,000 are you kidding? Maybe a postal worker. I will be lucky if I get a $20,000 pension. Try living on that. To be honest the federal civilian retirement is three tiered. It depends heavily on the Thrift Savings Plan, which is a 401K and social security. I hope after 30 years ( I will be in my sixties) to keep my head above water. $75,000, I wish. With my 401K (if it doesn't go to crap because it's invested in the stock market), Social Security, and my small pension I hope to have an income of 50K, if I am lucky. I know I am another one of those fat cat government employees. The only fat cats in government are the millionaire politicians that are in bed with the corporations.

                                                                                            • 1 vote
                                                                                            #21.3 - Sun Dec 4, 2011 11:45 PM EST
                                                                                            johny-388777

                                                                                            Every media channel would say, Good luck to the executive getting his millions. Now its come back to bite 99% on the behind.

                                                                                            WHy? All that cash is being swamped onto congress to buy favors. Can you blame the turds in the congress? They got cash coming out there ears.

                                                                                            So the UPSP is going to the chopper. The wall street masters have commanded.

                                                                                            What pisses off the Wall street. Is that OWS knew it was them. Thats why the protest was there. Everyone knows the congress is just full of the muppets.

                                                                                            • 3 votes
                                                                                            #21.4 - Tue Dec 6, 2011 11:14 AM EST
                                                                                            Reply
                                                                                            Hannibel Lechter

                                                                                            The only thing that is even remotely close to being “time-sensitive” in any U.S. newspaper or magazine today are the expiration dates on the manufactures coupons contained in them. Using the verbiage “time-sensitive” to describe newspapers and magazines in the same sentence is actually a “metaphoric oxymoron”. Today’s newspapers and magazines are nothing less than “advertising platforms” for big business.

                                                                                            It is BECAUSE of the newspaper, magazine and other “junk mail” industry that the U.S. Postal Service is in trouble to begin with. The U.S. Postal Service gives tremendous discounts to BIG BUSINESS. It’s like they’re cutting their own throat. The only ones making out on the deal are the “advertisers”.

                                                                                            If we are to have a “FIRST CLASS” Postal System with timely delivery then there should be no discounts for anyone. First class is First Class is First Class; the same price for everyone.

                                                                                            The U.S. Postal Service has to realize that they are the HOUSE in this game and they are the ONLY casino around. If business wants to use their service MAKE EM PAY for it.

                                                                                            • 3 votes
                                                                                            Reply#22 - Sun Dec 4, 2011 3:35 PM EST
                                                                                            Hannibel Lechter

                                                                                            I suggest that the U.S. Postal Service do away with the second class, third class, book and magazine rates. Again, there should only be one postal rate and it should be the same for everyone. If the Postal Service got rid of all the "junk mail" (newspapers, magazines and advertising mail) they wouldn't need as many mail carriers. And they wouldn't have to cut back on service.

                                                                                            • 3 votes
                                                                                            #22.1 - Sun Dec 4, 2011 3:48 PM EST
                                                                                            Rockwater-1211171

                                                                                            The other things in a newspaper that are time sensitive are the "community calendar events".

                                                                                            However, any "delay" in delivery can be negated by a little forethought and planning (put the adverts in a week earlier). Thus there is really no issue (pun?) with newspapers and magazines coming a day or two later.

                                                                                            Same goes for the pharmacies whining about meds not getting delivered the next day. Those who need the meds just have to plan to not put in a refill request on the last day of their supply (DOH!). They could try ordering their refill when there are 7 to 10 days worth left.

                                                                                            • 2 votes
                                                                                            #22.2 - Sun Dec 4, 2011 3:57 PM EST
                                                                                            Darkdonnie

                                                                                            If the Postal Service got rid of all the "junk mail" (newspapers, magazines and advertising mail) they wouldn't need as many mail carriers.

                                                                                            Union will not allow the postal service to lay off carriers!

                                                                                            I agree with you on the raise the rates deal, of course it will make UPS and Fed ex more competitive and viable as a competitor to the USPS. I use all three now, who ever offers a better deal gets the business. Funny thing is both UPS and Fed ex make money, the USPS only needs to break even which they cannot do.

                                                                                            So raise the rates and lets see where it goes! The USPS as we know it now is toast IMHO!

                                                                                            • 2 votes
                                                                                            #22.3 - Sun Dec 4, 2011 4:38 PM EST
                                                                                            Hannibel Lechter

                                                                                            Darkdonnie

                                                                                            You stated that: Union will not allow the postal service to lay off carriers!

                                                                                            Then they can reduce their numbers through attrition.

                                                                                            • 2 votes
                                                                                            #22.4 - Sun Dec 4, 2011 6:54 PM EST
                                                                                            Hannibel Lechter

                                                                                            Rockwater-1211171

                                                                                            You don't need a "newspaper subscription" for a "community calendar events" schedule; it can be posted on the community bulletin board or mailed.

                                                                                            As far as the "medication" portion of your statement; it's as simple as having each prescription set up to "auto-refill".

                                                                                            • 2 votes
                                                                                            #22.5 - Sun Dec 4, 2011 7:01 PM EST
                                                                                            scar_tissue

                                                                                            As far as the "medication" portion of your statement; it's as simple as having each prescription set up to "auto-refill".

                                                                                            Scrips don't last 4ever.

                                                                                            Some ins don't honor them for a full yr, but have cutoffs at 3 or 6 mos, regardless of what the MD writes.

                                                                                            Worker's comp, who demands the patient shop around for the cheapest possible meds & that's often via mail, quibbles & waffles over everything b4 approval, causing enough delay that ppl often run out b4 the new shipment arrives.

                                                                                            Controlled substances cannot have refills at all w/o a dr appt & a new scrip.

                                                                                            And the ppl who rely on having meds delivered would be the segment of the population who are poor, don't have transportation or cannot drive due to a medical condition, live far away from pharmacies, elderly, disabled, may not have computers.

                                                                                            Your existence does not parallel that of everyone else. Think.

                                                                                            • 1 vote
                                                                                            #22.6 - Sun Dec 4, 2011 7:55 PM EST
                                                                                            Hannibel Lechter

                                                                                            I think it would be a great idea for our government (FTC or Post Office) to set up a national "do not mail" list equivalent to the "do not call" list presently in effect, to limit junk mail. I for one would be willing to pay for such a service and it would definitely help the Post Office.

                                                                                            • 4 votes
                                                                                            #22.7 - Mon Dec 5, 2011 6:19 PM EST
                                                                                            johny-388777

                                                                                            No it was the unions. They demand too much. If the post office was run by illegals. We wouldnt have the big costs now.

                                                                                            Im tryng to be funny ;)

                                                                                            • 2 votes
                                                                                            #22.8 - Tue Dec 6, 2011 11:16 AM EST
                                                                                            Reply
                                                                                            WILDWONDERFUL

                                                                                            Wonder what the postal system would fetch if we placed it on the auction block ?

                                                                                            • 1 vote
                                                                                            Reply#23 - Sun Dec 4, 2011 4:01 PM EST
                                                                                            Jeffrey7500

                                                                                            Memo from the Postmaster General to all Postal employees: "The management regrets that it has come to their attention that employees dying on the job are failing to fall down. This practice must stop as it becomes impossible to distinguish between death and natural movement of the staff. Any employee found dead in an upright position will be placed on life support indefinitely at the expense of the US taxpayers."

                                                                                            • 1 vote
                                                                                            Reply#24 - Sun Dec 4, 2011 4:49 PM EST
                                                                                            johny-388777

                                                                                            See, CEO pay is here. its too powerful. Too much cash.

                                                                                            The war on the post office continues. Yes the post office is vile place of socialism.

                                                                                            According to the Right wingers media kochsucker fox news, all things need to be privatized. So that the bozo fest party can continue on the backs of the working poor.

                                                                                            • 1 vote
                                                                                            #24.1 - Tue Dec 6, 2011 11:21 AM EST
                                                                                            Reply
                                                                                            Common.Cents

                                                                                            I'm amazed at the blame game and the disagreements here over the Post Office.

                                                                                            However, this whole mess is an attempt by "progressives" from both parties to move us beyond that old piece of paper, the United States Constitution.

                                                                                            One of the very few things that We the People and our States formed a federal government for was to operate Post Offices. This is one of the very few areas where the Congress has an actual enumerated power to act. Quoting from Article 1, Section 8 of the United States Constitution:

                                                                                            To establish Post Offices and post Roads;

                                                                                            Congress needs to fix the Post Office, not destroy it. If they can't get that job done right, why should we trust them with other things where they have no clear enumerated power to act, like education and health care.

                                                                                            --
                                                                                            ¢ommon ¢ents

                                                                                            • 1 vote
                                                                                            Reply#25 - Sun Dec 4, 2011 5:12 PM EST
                                                                                            shutterbug98

                                                                                            Here's how the USPS can save some money. Instead of closing the P.O. on Saturday, close it on MONDAY. What way, the postal workers wouldn't have to be paid for federal holidays that fall on that day, b/c they'd be off anyway. That, & they would have 2 days off (in a row!!) instead of 1.

                                                                                              Reply#26 - Sun Dec 4, 2011 6:28 PM EST
                                                                                              chitownty

                                                                                              It's a federal holiday,they'd still get paid.I don't know about you ,but most people do get paid for holidays.

                                                                                                #26.1 - Sun Dec 4, 2011 9:07 PM EST
                                                                                                johny-388777

                                                                                                The USA will get the jobs back in the future. Don't you worry. When its a third world country good and proper.

                                                                                                The ring wingers will tell the populace. We got you the work. Then they will change the stats on household income into community income and it will be still less then what people earn now.

                                                                                                You guys aint seen nothing yet. The right wingers won't stop. The USPS is the small potatoes. They want it all. They want a super elite and the super poor and they will stamp on the forehead poor. Thats so the rich bozos will know who is who.

                                                                                                The poor folk will be watching re runs of the incredible hulk and batman and robin. They will think Fes parker is the real daniel Boon.

                                                                                                • 2 votes
                                                                                                #26.2 - Tue Dec 6, 2011 11:32 AM EST
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