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As Romney's firm profited in SC, jobs disappeared

Mon Dec 19, 2011 12:01 PM EST
us-news, politics, us, mitt-romney, romney, layoffs
Jack Gillum, Associated Press
< PreviousNext >
showing 1 of 6 photos
<p>Republican presidential candidate andformer Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney speaks during a town hall meeting at Memminger Auditorium, Saturday, Dec. 17, 2011, in Charleston, S.C.  (AP Photo/Rainier Ehrhardt)</p>

Republican presidential candidate andformer Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney speaks during a town hall meeting at Memminger Auditorium, Saturday, Dec. 17, 2011, in Charleston, S.C. (AP Photo/Rainier Ehrhardt)

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GAFFNEY — More than two decades ago, Mitt Romney's business venture came to town with a bounty of highly anticipated manufacturing jobs. The new plant, just past the gas station off Interstate 85, needed skilled workers to churn out thousands of photo albums.

Four years later, the Holson Burnes Group Inc. — the company controlled by Romney's Bain Capital LLC — closed the factory and laid off about 150 workers. Some jobs were sent north, where months later many of those were also eliminated. Other operations went overseas.

But Bain walked away with millions in profits.

A review by The Associated Press of financial and regulatory documents in the case of Holson Burnes contrasts with statements Romney has made during his presidential campaign about his success creating jobs in the private sector. It shows how Bain, then headed by Romney, wrung profits out of the company by slashing costs and trimming its work force.

By coincidence, the economic fallout from Bain's decisions struck hardest in South Carolina and New Hampshire, early primary states that will shape the Republican race and Romney's White House prospects. Romney knows President Barack Obama — not to mention the other Republican hopefuls — will be picking apart his record at Bain.

"He's going to go after me and say, you know, in businesses that you've invested in, they didn't all succeed," Romney said at last week's Republican debate. "Some failed. Some laid people off. And he'll be absolutely right." Yet Romney said that, overall, his investments produced tens of thousands of jobs. "In the real world, some things don't make it," Romney added.

Under Romney, Bain Capital earned a reputation for turning around struggling companies and establishing well-known brands such as Domino's Pizza and the Staples office supply retailer.

But the little-known story of Holson Burnes shows the human toll in this town of about 12,000 people touched by Bain's pursuit of profit.

For Bain, the plan was a financial success: Holson Burnes raised $24 million from its initial public offering on the over-the-counter trading market, with Bain executives retaining the majority of the company's shares. Bain, in the end, reaped more than double the return on its initial investment. But workers were left jobless just as the local economy began to slump.

___

LURING INVESTORS

In 1987, Bain Capital pounced on a golden opportunity: It set its sights on Hallmark's Burnes of Boston, having bought the Holson Co. the year before. Executives organized the companies under the Holson Burnes Group, which by 1992 was one of the nation's largest makers of photo albums and picture frames.

Company executives quickly went to work growing their new venture. They foresaw "significant growth" for their products in the South, a local newspaper reported, so South Carolina officials lured the company to Gaffney with more than $5 million in industrial bonds. Officials in Cherokee County, about 60 miles from Charlotte, N.C., pushed for $200,000 in utility upgrades.

Within months, Holson Burnes opened its 114,000-square-foot factory, using land on the outskirts of Gaffney once owned by a farm-supply company. By April 1988, about 100 workers were fastening together photo albums for the growing business.

"It was a new, state-of-the-art plant with lots of people," recalled Robert Weaver, who worked there in the late 1980s and later became a county official.

But in time, the red ink grew. Although Holson Burnes' sales nearly doubled from 1987 to 1991 — to more than $110 million— it posted consecutive operating losses, reports stated. Executives blamed the recession and a shift in consumer habits.

To stem the losses, Holson Burnes closed the plant and sold the property in July 1992 for $2.8 million, county records show. The company paid off its mortgage and transferred a small number of remaining jobs to New Hampshire.

Undoubtedly, Bain executives had their eye on the bottom line as they were preparing to close the Gaffney plant. Just six months before, the company touted "improved efficiencies" and "stronger cost controls" in its regulatory filings, just as it reported losses in early 1992.

The cost-cutting worked, just as the company prepared its initial public offering. By 1993, Holson Burnes brought in more than $3 million in after-tax profit, a stark turnaround from its $12.4 million loss the year before.

___

JOB CUTS A PATTERN

Holson Burnes had brought new jobs to Gaffney amid a downtrodden economy. It was no surprise when county development officials worked quickly to find a surrogate after Bain closed up shop. The local plant manager formed a small spinoff company and rehired about 20 to 30 workers.

In the end, Holson Burnes saved millions of dollars. Yet its squeeze on Gaffney was hardly unique.

Just as executives closed down operations here and sold its South Carolina factory to the Bic Corp., residents 900 miles away in Claremont, N.H., were preparing for the new jobs. The company said in spring 1992 that the expansion in Claremont "will allow us to focus our attention on our rapidly growing base" of products.

But the prospect of new jobs — similar to expectations in Gaffney — was short lived.

Within seven months, Holson Burnes began issuing furloughs to half its Claremont employees. Even if things looked up, the company told its workers, it would not rehire most of its clerical or managerial staff.

Exact numbers of layoffs were never announced. Some workers estimated that 85 to 100 employees were affected, telling the local Claremont Eagle Times that entire departments had been "decimated."

The cost-cutting continued at Holson Burnes. By 1992, the company manufactured nearly 75 percent of its photo frames overseas, according to documents filed with the Securities and Exchange Commission. One of the company's clock-making divisions also shipped work overseas from a Rhode Island plant.

But the business decisions didn't come without risk or public scrutiny.

Two clockmakers sued Holson Burnes in U.S. District Court in August 1992, claiming executives convinced them to hold off on demanding $1.9 million in IOU payments so that Holson Burnes could pull its Cuckoo Clock Manufacturing Co. out of a financial tailspin. A judge dismissed the case three years later.

___

TENDING A `GOLDEN GOOSE'

Since announcing his candidacy for the White House, Romney has touted his business experience to convince voters that he's a better alternative to Obama as the country grapples with a weak economy.

"This president doesn't know how the economy works," Romney said last week. "I believe to create jobs, it helps to have created jobs."

After working as a top official for Bain & Co., Romney founded Bain Capital, where he largely made his personal fortune of $190 million to $250 million. He headed Bain Capital for more than 15 years before leaving to run the Salt Lake Olympic organizing committee.

Under Romney, Bain Capital invested millions of dollars into dozens of private-equity ventures. Some produced staggering profitability — one company showed a return rate greater than 1,000 percent — and by the late 1990s Bain targeted tech firms that specialized in software and telecommunications.

Romney insists now that he was never about "buying things, taking them apart, closing them down," as he told "Fox News Sunday."

"My business was associated with trying to make enterprises more successful. Not always was I able to succeed. But in each case, we tried to grow an enterprise, and in doing so, hopefully provide a better future for those associated with that enterprise."

Holson Burnes was one of Romney's lesser-known investments. In 1986, just as it bought smaller companies to form the Holson Burnes Group, Bain sank roughly $10 million in its new project under Romney's leadership.

By 1992, Holson Burnes' photography products lined the shelves in major American department stores. Bain eventually earned roughly $22 million from its initial investment — an average rate of return that a Deutsche Bank financial prospectus said surpassed 20 percent.

Indeed, it was Bain's investment in Holson Burnes and other ventures that made Romney undoubtedly wary about leaving the company he founded — it now manages about $66 billion in assets — to organize the 2002 Winter Olympics.

"How could I walk away from the golden goose," Romney wrote in his 2004 book, "especially now that it was laying even more golden eggs?"

___

View related documents at http://apne.ws/tT73F4

___

Contact the Washington investigative team at DCInvestigations(at)ap.org

Follow Jack Gillum at http://twitter.com/jackgillum

© 2011 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.
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  • Groups: Carolinas
  • Regions: United States , Greenville/Spartanburg/Asheville/Anderson
  • Public Discussion (91)
Jump to discussion page: 1 2
Boomer829

So Mitt... Let me get this straight... You're taking profits here in the US ...and creating jobs overseas... and you want to be President???? I think Not.....

  • 23 votes
Reply#1 - Mon Dec 19, 2011 12:29 PM EST
carolyn-727984

Gingrich is worse, still.....no good choices on the republican side, except maybe Huntsman.

  • 11 votes
#1.1 - Mon Dec 19, 2011 12:35 PM EST
Tappy McWidestance

Romney is not a jobs creator he is a jobs destroyer. Yet in the land of the tiny brained folks, he should be given the opportunity to run America like he ran Bain Capital. We recently had the "MBA" President who was going to run America like a corporation. It didn't turn out so well for the country although his donor class is doing quite well. Personally I am not a fan of corporate control of the country.

If America is stupid enough to vote for Romney and give control of the House and Senate to Republicans we will get what we deserve. The same goes for voting for Gingrich or Paul too.

  • 23 votes
#1.2 - Mon Dec 19, 2011 1:10 PM EST
Disturbedlibrarian

Hello Mitt "Gordon Gecko" Romney!

  • 4 votes
#1.3 - Mon Dec 19, 2011 2:51 PM EST
badchess

You might examine Obama's numbers Boomer:

Evergreen Solar, a Massachusetts company, received stimulus money, which the White House said is “hoping to hire 90 to 100 people.” Instead, it declared bankruptcy and shipped 800 jobs overseas.

At least Mitt Romney doesn't use taxpayer money to ship jobs overseas.

And Obama wants to be reelcted President???? I think Not.....

  • 3 votes
#1.4 - Mon Dec 19, 2011 3:14 PM EST
John Bayner

Or hello Edward Lewis (Pretty Woman) before the prostitute Vivianne softened him up.

    #1.5 - Mon Dec 19, 2011 3:22 PM EST
    tweetheart44

    We need to do something to keep jobs here in the United States. This is getting to be ridiculous. As I have said before, I think that most unemployed people would be happy to pay more for an item that is produced here if it meant that they would be employed here in our own country. If you have more money, you will spend more money.

    The more I hear about the Republican candidates, the more I want Obama to win a second term. Obama isn't perfect, but he's still a hell of a lot better than the Republican candidates.

    • 6 votes
    #1.6 - Mon Dec 19, 2011 4:44 PM EST
    devilsadvocates

    H'e just like so many of the powerful elite.......outsource not just the jobs but the profits made on the backs of the American consumer and expect to be compensated by the American taxpayer! PAST TIME for that crap to STOP!

    • 3 votes
    #1.7 - Mon Dec 19, 2011 4:46 PM EST
    ShannonLeslieDeleted
    Tappy McWidestance

    Evergreen Solar, a Massachusetts company, received stimulus money, which the White House said is “hoping to hire 90 to 100 people.” Instead, it declared bankruptcy and shipped 800 jobs overseas.

    Actually it was state money. But thanks for playing Lies about Obama.

    http://www.bostonherald.com/business/technology/general/view.bg?articleid=1358998

    • 7 votes
    #1.9 - Mon Dec 19, 2011 8:33 PM EST
    BXURZ

    Bud Fox: Why do you need to wreck this company?

    Gordon Gekko: Because it's WRECKABLE, all right? I took another look at it and I changed my mind!

    - Wall Street (1987)

    • 1 vote
    #1.10 - Mon Dec 19, 2011 10:37 PM EST
    Arieus

    Just another sign that old Mitt isn't pro-America when he didn't fight to stop all these plants from shutting down and moving overseas. He's with the 1%ers and believes that low wages puts more money in his pockets and to hell with the American people. I don't think any republican other than Ron Paul wants to help America or the American people. If Ron Paul wins, we need to make it work for him, because as we have seen and witnessed, congress and even Boehner are all against Obama and preventing him from even trying to help the American people.

    We have a real problem when out government represents themselves and the 1%ers only and say to hell with the rest of us. We need government reform and we need it now.

    Ron Paul 2012

    • 2 votes
    #1.11 - Tue Dec 20, 2011 12:10 AM EST
    real michaud

    "Don't allow Slick Willard to run America like he ran Bain Capital".....thats a good enough slogan as I ever seen I might say, as I pat myself on the back.

    • 2 votes
    #1.12 - Tue Dec 20, 2011 10:11 AM EST
    Reply
    Zoolopolis

    Romney spokeswoman Andrea Saul said Bain Capital ultimately created tens of thousands of jobs.

    In China.

    Romney's best example of vulture capitalism.

    These vampires enthralled our government to pass tax breaks for outsourcing our jobs. Then they sent our jobs to China.

    • 15 votes
    Reply#2 - Mon Dec 19, 2011 12:35 PM EST
    hww

    It is called free enterprise and is common.

    General Electric is planning to move its 115-year-old X-ray division from Waukesha,

    Wis., to Beijing, China. In addition to moving the headquarters, the company will

    invest $2 billion in China and train more than 65 engineers and create six research

    centers. This is the same GE that made $5.1 billion in the United States last year but

    paid no taxes-the same company that employs more people overseas than it does in

    the United States. Obama appointed GE Chairman Jeff Immelt to head his commission

    on job creation (job czar). Immelt is supposed to help create jobs.

    I guess Obama forgot to tell him in which country he was supposed

    to be creating those jobs.

    • 3 votes
    Reply#3 - Mon Dec 19, 2011 12:48 PM EST
    Hairfarmer

    GE..."We bring good things to life..."

    Like weapons and outsourcing...And subsidized profits without paying taxes....

    The politicians and these companies are looters of our country. They should be worried about the actions they have taken...People are starting to realize how screwed it has become...And they still get the reply..."Let them eat cake"

    That never works out...

    Vote out ALL incumbents in 2012...Take America back to the home of the brave...A government by the people...And FOR the people....

    • 6 votes
    #3.1 - Mon Dec 19, 2011 1:06 PM EST
    Naughtia

    Same GE will ask for the US intelligence services help when trying to enter the market of a country they arent in, to manipulate the goverment of said country into giving them the best deal.

    Same GE will ask for government protection from un fair trade practices from foriegn powers.

    Same GE would ask the US government to do something about it if rebels attacked on of their foreign plants.

    They want all the benefits from american society but they dont want to actually be a part of it.

    • 8 votes
    #3.2 - Mon Dec 19, 2011 2:17 PM EST
    Angry Left-532262

    Kind of like Haliburton??

    • 10 votes
    #3.3 - Mon Dec 19, 2011 2:40 PM EST
    Cniht

    Angry,

    At least Haliburton hired their own mercenaries. GE just pimps our own troops.

    • 3 votes
    #3.4 - Mon Dec 19, 2011 2:46 PM EST
    Disturbedlibrarian

    Hairfarmer, OK, I'll bite, who are you going to put in their place? I don't see a viable candidate anywhere! Obama could maybe do it if Congress gets out of the way. The only thing they are doing is concentrating on making him a one-term president. Let's find some folks who really want to work for the exorbitant paycheck we pay them.

    • 4 votes
    #3.5 - Mon Dec 19, 2011 2:56 PM EST
    HappyToSeeYa

    historically, American companies, before they became multi-national, routinely usedy the US military to protect their interests in other countries. GE and other multi-corporate entities no longer have an interest in manufacturing in the US and are able to get the host country to support their interests.

    An interesting change is that the US middle class is being squeezed out making it possible to manufacture dirt cheap in this country. At that point the US market will not be able to afford the manufactured goods so which global market is the consumer?

    Romney will continue the current reality because that is his business expertise. We are not supposed to see behind this wizard's curtain.

    • 1 vote
    #3.6 - Mon Dec 19, 2011 4:50 PM EST
    Hairfarmer

    I do not care...Send in the clowns...As long as it is not the same people who keep accepting corporate money to help themselves get rich. The same crews that allow the Congress to pass "free trade"...Not to be confused with fair trade...

    The same old guys that passed Senate bill 1867 to detain anyone without the need for charges...

    I could tell you how I really feel...LOL...

    They have given our jobs to China...Destroyed countless families with wars all over the planet while the Military Industrial Complex expands...And lines their own pockets on the backs of our young men and women. Our future depends on taking it back...

    I will vote as many as I can this next year...

    Peace

      #3.7 - Mon Dec 19, 2011 4:55 PM EST
      Reply
      thisbusymonster

      I love how it's "nearly 150" jobs. That's the kind of language a child uses to make himself seem older by saying "I'm almost 10!"

      As in, still 9. They don't actually count the number of jobs even though it's eminently countable. If you weren't looking you might think the "150" was an order of magnitude greater. The construction would read "created almost 150 thousand." That is the kind of language you use when the numbers are so large that they are too fluid to pin down to a specific amount. When you are talking about 150 jobs -- that is a handful out of an ocean.

      And of course, Romney's company didn't really create jobs. This is because corporations do not creat jobs. They destroy them. Corporations typically expand by buying out their smaller competition. They then find "synergy" which means "two or more people already doing the same job" and then they fire the people who aren't needed. Corporations destroy jobs. The intense corporatization of America in the Reagan Era though the Bush Years has been one of the direct causes of our job woes. As a corporation captures a market completely they eliminate thousands or millions of jobs, some directly and some indirectly. The income that used to flow from consumers to local business owners now gets vacuumed up by the corporation. This is why the Walton Heirs control more money than 90 million Americans. They've taken all of that business activity and consolidated it to point at their pockets.

      It's like the Roman model of imperialization. It works up to a point. The Romans spread outward consquering smaller nations, looting their resources, enslaving their people. Economically Wal-Mart is almost identical. They "conquer" a market with their mosopony (monopoly over suppliers), squeeze their competition out with lower wholesale prices, throw all of those employees out of work, and replace a healthy economy with a dead hand remotely operated. The local Wa-Mart will absolutely not do anything on behalf of the local community that they aren't forced to by Corporate, and are little more than a fiefdom of a distant empire.

      Rome collapsed when they overextended their reach, running out of room to conquer new lands and in a classic pyramid scheme collapse unable to continue to fuel the expansion of their 1%. Rome was sacked by barbarians. Wal-Mart will fail in another catastrophic fashion when their customer base finally evaporates because their good jobs are all gone.

      • 14 votes
      Reply#4 - Mon Dec 19, 2011 12:54 PM EST
      RobPlumley

      I always thought about the Roman Empire's decline, but just couldn't convey it in any seed on the vine because of the length of text, but you did a wonderful job explaining it.

      Until the masses (voters) understand that the GOP and Tea Party do not have their best interests at hand, nothing short of a revolution is going to rid ourselves of these paid corporate whores.

      • 9 votes
      #4.1 - Mon Dec 19, 2011 1:04 PM EST
      thisbusymonster

      The Roman model was the result of sociopathic greed in the upper classes of that society. The Wal-Mart model is nearly identical, and most definitely includes the sociopathic greed.

        #4.2 - Tue Dec 20, 2011 9:21 AM EST
        Reply
        steven-791492

        The republican's seem to think having a President that will state up front "all of our jobs will go over seas" is a good thing.

        • 9 votes
        Reply#5 - Mon Dec 19, 2011 12:59 PM EST
        Naughtia

        it depends on your base.

        See when jobs disappear but the supply of labor in the US stays the same(or grows due to birth rate) what happens to the value of labor in the american employment zone?

        Right, it is nothing more than econ 101, Job demand drops, with labor supply rising, therefore labor supply costs will drop.

        WHich is what the 1% want. And you will hear right wingers admit that often, in a round about way.

        Our poor arent poor, 80% have a refrigerator.(forgetting that most rental homes come with one)

        The problem with the unemployed is they are too arrogant to take low wage mcdonalds jobs(not true since over 1 million showed up for 50k jobs but doesnt stop the GOP from claiming that)

        They want to get rid of the minimum wage.

        and they claim that due to unions and such, america cant compete on the International market.

        For the 1%'rs getting a republican, any republican into office is a wet dream.

        and just imagine how much richer the rich could be if we got down labor costs and with it total price.

        • 6 votes
        #5.1 - Mon Dec 19, 2011 2:24 PM EST
        knightofdespair

        Are you kidding? The majority of the right wing is still virulently convinced unions are what killed jobs, not people like Romney out there sucking corporate and taxpayer money to reduce as many American jobs as he can for a 3 month stock jump or multi million dollar (non taxed and non spent) bonus.

        • 6 votes
        #5.2 - Mon Dec 19, 2011 2:50 PM EST
        Naughtia

        knightofdespair

        what are you talking about? I am talking about the supply of labor and the demand for jobs.. NOT LABOR UNIONS.

        Seriously what the @!$%# are you talking about?

        BY LABOR i mean EMPLOYEES, not UNIONS

        The right want to increase the number of employees looking for a job. They do this by sending jobs overseas. SInce you have more people looking for less jobs.. THE AMOUNT OF MONEY THEY WILL TAKE TO WORK FOR YOU DROPS.

        you do get that? it is econ 101. IF there are less people applying for your job offer, you have to raise the salary you offer. If there are 40 people coming fro every job offer, you can lower the salary you offer and still get 20 people to apply.

        who the @!$%# mentioned unions?

        • 2 votes
        #5.3 - Mon Dec 19, 2011 4:43 PM EST
        knightofdespair

        I was replying to Steven's post, where he states

        The republican's seem to think having a President that will state up front "all of our jobs will go over seas" is a good thing.

        I was replying most of them are still too busy blaming unions for the jobs going overseas instead, unless faux news changed the official stance recently?

        • 3 votes
        #5.4 - Mon Dec 19, 2011 6:08 PM EST
        steven-791492

        knightofdespair, I was speaking of the romney supporters.... but of course your right fox news has not yet found a way to broadcast facts yet.

        • 2 votes
        #5.5 - Tue Dec 20, 2011 12:35 AM EST
        knightofdespair

        From my experience the right wing followers have a very (very) simple understanding of economics... They see everything in black and white, and once they are told of some truism that looks good on a bumper sticker they simply cannot visualize the myriad ways such absolutes break down in the corrupt board rooms across America. They have no interest in researching or testing various tax rates or compensation plans, they can't even get their blinders off to see that we are teetering on the brink of collapse and virtually every root cause of this instability stems from Reagan's tinkle down flawed theory.

        The simple truth is that 7th grade math can easily show them wrong on virtually every economic or policy idea they espouse, but sadly 90% of their base cannot handle 7th grade math to the very painful detriment of the rest of us.

        • 2 votes
        #5.6 - Tue Dec 20, 2011 11:30 AM EST
        Reply
        thomasG-3668592

        "as we create more jobs over seas, those workers will have more buying power later on to buy USA big ticket items thus creating more jobs and wealth here". campaign promise from 1980's. LOL LOL LOL.

        • 6 votes
        Reply#6 - Mon Dec 19, 2011 1:03 PM EST
        TheyreAllCrooks

        Mitt should go into the oil drilling business. By the time he's done spinning his lies, he should be at least 100 miles deep...

        • 7 votes
        Reply#7 - Mon Dec 19, 2011 1:12 PM EST
        knightofdespair

        His hair would soak it all up.

        • 2 votes
        #7.1 - Mon Dec 19, 2011 2:51 PM EST
        Reply
        christopher michael

        that's it? this is the whole article? where's the commentary on the "[profits]" mentioned in the headline? what was "consolidated" and to where? i see no reason consolidating operations within the U.S. would be a problem -- businesses often must do such things to stay profitable and competitive. some people lose jobs; some people get jobs. what's wrong with that reality?

        this article seems very unfinished -- even though i clicked the "Complete Story" link -- and i don't give credit for unfinished work. tell me about the profits. tell me about the consolidation. tell me about the "expanded" operations overseas. like, 5,000 jobs, or 15 people were hired to operate a now slightly larger overseas operation?

        yeah, the headline sounds great and easily instigates criticism of Romney (and the party he represents). but in a suspicious world of partisan politics and reporting and echo chamber driven misinformation, i'm gonna demand more of this journalist. meanwhile, others are running wild around the Internet at this very moment letting everyone know how "Romney's firm profited in SC, jobs disappeared." of course, they won't be able to say much more than that, but hey, who needs strong evidence in a world of 140 characters or less, right?

        having said all of this, if as unconcerned about American jobs as this article means to suggest, yeah, Romney's actions are a bit damaging. especially when trotting around the country with his party buddies spreading holy messages of how we need to put him (or one of his buddies) in the White House so he can be a job creator. never mind that we already put a majority of them in Congress, State Houses and Governorships (13 MONTHS AGO!) who could be job creators RIGHT NOW...

        • 3 votes
        Reply#8 - Mon Dec 19, 2011 1:23 PM EST
        christopher michael

        it appears that this article has now been updated. i expect that another read will answer my questions, or at least tell a more complete story.

        thank you, Jack Gillum, Associated Press. on a related note, perhaps next time a story "breaks", noting that it is a "developing" story or "pending further details" or something similar would be helpful to readers, especially in consideration of the potentially damaging effects mentioned in my earlier post. (forgive me, in advance, if this indeed was noted and i missed it in my intitial reading.)

        the echo chamber effect MUST be silenced. it starts with journalists.

          #8.1 - Tue Dec 20, 2011 10:07 AM EST
          Reply
          christopher michael

          interesting quote, thomasG-3668592. thank you. does speak to his actions suggested in the article...

          • 1 vote
          Reply#9 - Mon Dec 19, 2011 1:30 PM EST
          Brian-497171

          Huckabee once said of Romney's unappealing nature to voters, "He looks like the guy who just fired you."

          That's because he is the guy who just fired you. Then he poses for pics like this!

          • 11 votes
          Reply#10 - Mon Dec 19, 2011 1:35 PM EST
          Angry Left-532262

          SC doesn't care...they will vote for whichever one gets the nomination....as long as he has an R at the end of his name.

          • 8 votes
          Reply#11 - Mon Dec 19, 2011 1:57 PM EST
          Boatrocker

          SC doesn't care...they will vote for whichever one gets the nomination....as long as he has an R at the end of his name.

          And isn't brown . . . .

          • 3 votes
          #11.1 - Mon Dec 19, 2011 2:17 PM EST
          Angry Left-532262

          I would agree with you but they would bring up Nimrata Randhawa Haley...but she doesn't look or sound foreign either.

          • 3 votes
          #11.2 - Mon Dec 19, 2011 2:42 PM EST
          miasma

          Clipped to Carolinas Group.

            #11.3 - Mon Dec 19, 2011 3:57 PM EST
            Reply
            christopher michael

            brilliant pic link, brian!

            • 1 vote
            Reply#12 - Mon Dec 19, 2011 2:16 PM EST
            Willing.Sniper

            SO??

            Apparently you have no idea what "venture Capitalist" do?

            They provide private "capital" to start-ups who would not otherwise have the money to start a business. There are NO guarantees, it's a wagered investment with private money.

            The reward for a "venture capitalist" when he takes the huge risk of giving his money to the endeavor is "profit".

            So whats your problem?

            • 1 vote
            Reply#13 - Mon Dec 19, 2011 2:35 PM EST
            Cniht

            The problem, William, is that venture Capitalists in and of themselves produce nothing. They are in fact usually a net syphon of wealth away from others to themselves. That's the 'profit' you speak of for them.

            In today's world if they get that profit in America through American jobs or in China with American money invested and American consumers buying their products, but laying off American workers for a net LOSS to the greater good and wealth of America, that's A-OK in their book.

            Financial Services is one section of the economy that everyone realizes has way overextended itself and abused its position to become something it was never meant to become. Venture Capitalists included.

            • 3 votes
            #13.1 - Mon Dec 19, 2011 3:00 PM EST
            knightofdespair

            laying off American workers for a net LOSS

            Thats really the core of it, you got one guy making $3 million off the deal who hoards it all in a swiss bank, none of that is getting spent and certainly not on the local economy. Very little or none of it gets taxed either, and now you also have 5000 people getting unemployment, welfare, or food assistance because of it as well. What about the people cost, surely at least one or two of those 5000 layoffs will kill themselves due to the stress and lack of control forced upon them.

            • 3 votes
            #13.2 - Mon Dec 19, 2011 3:11 PM EST
            christopher michael

            Willing, if i may, if not just for my own clarification...to what and/or whom is this comment directed. did someone say "so." in the discussion to something? i can't find it...

            • 1 vote
            #13.3 - Mon Dec 19, 2011 3:58 PM EST
            thisbusymonster

            Apparently you have no idea what "venture Capitalist" do?

            Yea, we do. They use their money to destroy other people's lives for their convenience. That is what they do.

            Don't care about what else they do. There is no amount of good that these rapacious a-holes can do that makes up for the damage they do with their careless, selfish lives.

            • 1 vote
            #13.4 - Tue Dec 20, 2011 11:24 AM EST
            knightofdespair

            Apparently you have no idea what "venture Capitalist" do?

            They concentrate wealth where it isn't healthy and suck away wealth, jobs, and economic growth from the other 99% - one guy gets richer and 5000 others get poorer, for a net loss across the board for the entire country.

            • 2 votes
            #13.5 - Tue Dec 20, 2011 11:33 AM EST
            thisbusymonster

            Apparently you have no idea what "venture Capitalist" do?

            I also want to point out I used to work for one of these supposed gods of the earth whom us lesser men must fawn over and admire.

            He was a miniscule, self-impressed dimwit who talked fast and bilked my 401k plan with his reckless self-enrichment, and has tried to run for Governor once and Senator once in the state he left the wreckage of his company in, and neither time has he gotten anywhere near the prize. He left his company in a shambles and walked away with a monstrous payday, and as far as I know my company still pays him a set amount every year though he does nothing for us and is no longer associated with our operations in any way.

            So, I know intimately what these vultures do. I have zero respect for their contribution to society. It is all about themselves.

            • 1 vote
            #13.6 - Tue Dec 20, 2011 1:10 PM EST
            Reply
            Willing.Sniper

            This is not to imply that Romney personally created these jobs (any more than President Obama personally creates jobs) but only that without the assistance of Bain Capital, Romney’s company, many of these jobs might never have happened.

            By the way, in 1990, Romney was asked by his former employer, Bill Bain, to help save that company, so we’ll start there:

          • Bain & Company – 5,000 jobs
          • Bain Capital – 400 jobs
          • Staples Office Supply – 90,000 jobs
          • Accuride – 3,000 jobs
          • Brookstone – 2,000 jobs
          • Domino’s Pizza – 145,000 jobs
          • Sealy Mattress – 5,000 jobs
          • Sports Authority – 15,000 jobs
          • Artisan Entertainment (now LionsGate Ent.) – 500 jobs
          • AmPad – 4,100 jobs
          • Burger King Corp. – 40,000 jobs
          • Bombadier (Ski-doo, Sea Doo, Can-Am) – 6,000 jobs
          • Warner Music Group – 4,000 jobs
          • Dollarama – 12,000 jobs
          • Burlington Coat Factory – 28,000 jobs
          • Royal Phillips Electronics (now NXP SemiConductor) – 28,000 jobs
          • Bavaria Yachtbau – 1,000 jobs
          • Home Depot Supply (now HDSupply) – 10,000 jobs
          • Guitar Center – 10,000 jobs
          • Clear Channel Radio – 18,000 jobs
          • Gome Electrical Appliances, China (16% stake) – 49,000 jobs
          • Styron (formerly a div. of Dow Chem) – 2,000 jobs
          • Gymboree – 10,000 jobs
          • That’s at least 484,150 jobs created by Romney’s company, Bain Capital.

            • 2 votes
            Reply#14 - Mon Dec 19, 2011 2:41 PM EST
            Willing.Sniper

            Here’s the part that just may surprise you. This list is just a tiny fraction of the hundreds of companies that Bain Capital has founded, funded or acquired over the past 27 years.

            So, let’s recap: Jobs created by Obama - None.

            Jobs created by Romney: A lot. But still a small fraction of the number of jobs he will create as President of the United States.

            And by the way, while Romney was Governor of Massachusetts, the unemployment rate dropped from 5.7% to 4.9%.

            Game over, Mr. President.

            • 2 votes
            #14.1 - Mon Dec 19, 2011 2:43 PM EST
            Cniht

            Both of you guys are leaving out the jobs that were destroyed when these companies consolidated operations, shipped jobs elsewhere, or the companies/competition that were purchased and then looted by that same Investment company. It's not an accurate picture to just so the pretty positives. You got to show the negatives too.

            Of course fanboiz leave that out.

            • 6 votes
            #14.2 - Mon Dec 19, 2011 2:53 PM EST
            Rigbee Dugane

            First, Cniht, both those comments are by the same person.

            Second, W.S gave us numbers. If you're going to refute his argument, it's incumbent upon you to do the same.

            You've got to include facts.

            Of course, haterz leave that out.

            • 2 votes
            #14.3 - Mon Dec 19, 2011 3:17 PM EST
            SeattleBrian

            You're stretching the truth quit a bit here...

            Just to pick on one of your examples... You say Romney/Bain created 145,000 Jobs at Dominos. (that is the current number of Domino's employees)

            Domino's was sold to Bain by the founder in December 1998 for about $1Billion. (source). Romney left Bain in Feb 1999, 3 months later.

            How do you get that Romney created 145,000 jobs at Dominos given those facts? I'd say that Tom Monaghan (who Founded Domino's in 1960) was responsible for those jobs, not Mr. Romney.

            • 8 votes
            #14.4 - Mon Dec 19, 2011 3:40 PM EST
            Brian-497171

            Jobs created by Romney: A lot.

            So, you're not saying he is responsible for these jobs - but then you follow that up by saying he is responsible? Wha?

            Jobs created by Obama - None

            None?

            • 3 votes
            #14.5 - Mon Dec 19, 2011 4:10 PM EST
            christopher michael

            So, let’s recap: Jobs created by Obama - None.

            Willing, this is a seriously disingenuous statement. mostly because at least 1 job has been created during this presidency, not "none," (and "not enough" is not the same as "none") so your statement is patently false on the surface. if you're going to use numbers, use them all or...none.

            but, more importantly, really, also because it is no secret that gross obstructionism during this presidency is at an all time high -- even to the point of PUBLICLY announcing that your #1 goal is the ending of it -- with widespread abuses of office, power and congressional "rules" SOLELY to stifle the progress of government and circumvent the success of ONE man, to your own political advantage, and at the expense of "the American people", every politician's favorite news conference darlings. and that's not an excuse, or a defense of this administration, or a talking point or even a partisan comment: that's recorded fact. already now historical, recorded, verifiable fact. yes, you have to use some better judgement to establish and accept that the actions of a small few have meant the utter destruction of nearly an entire class of people, but you seem like a reasonable person of good judgement. i'll trust to reach a reasonable conclusion.

            i appreciate an underlying argument of "you're in charge, get it done or own the results," but this here just is not the case where that argument stands up. i would appreciate your argument of a lack of the creation of jobs if it came with some debate on the facts above and maybe some suggestions of how a president might get things done in a climate EXPRESSED AS NOT INTENT ON him getting things done.

            to suggest that the lack of administration policy intended to create jobs (and a healthy raw number to support the policy) is to be owned solely by Barack Obama and not the president, the congress and the entire national government body as a whole (let's not forget state house obstructionism, governorship obstructionism, and even city council obstructionism) simply is grossly understating the issue.

            • 4 votes
            #14.6 - Mon Dec 19, 2011 4:38 PM EST
            TheyreAllCrooks

            Jobs created by Romney: A lot.

            Does this "a lot" include all the illegal Mexican aliens he had working at his snappy mansion? Just checking...because we wouldn't want to undersell his hiring numbers!

            • 2 votes
            #14.7 - Mon Dec 19, 2011 5:16 PM EST
            christopher michael

            thanks for your link, brian. this information further points out for Willing.Sniper that 1.3 million is > and ≠ 484,150 or even "alot." not even "a small fraction of the number of jobs" that Romney MIGHT create can stand up to the raw number 1.3 million.

            i HATED math in school...now i just love it!

            • 2 votes
            #14.8 - Mon Dec 19, 2011 6:01 PM EST
            thisbusymonster

            So, let's recap: Jobs created by Obama - None.

            Apparently conservative thinking is defined by one's ability to simply ignore facts that do not fit his narrative.

            Willing Sniper, you are lying. Why don't we back up to before you starting outright lying and start this over?

            • 1 vote
            #14.9 - Tue Dec 20, 2011 11:25 AM EST
            Reply
            fronco

            What did Romney say;; people are what?

            • 3 votes
            Reply#15 - Mon Dec 19, 2011 2:49 PM EST
            Brian-497171

            "Corporations are people.."

            • 4 votes
            #15.1 - Mon Dec 19, 2011 4:13 PM EST
            Reply
            Gary Vincent Guss

            Ask Mitt about his plan to outsource the Congress to China

            • 3 votes
            Reply#16 - Mon Dec 19, 2011 3:21 PM EST
            FactOfTheMatter

            A review by The Associated Press of financial and regulatory documents in the case of Holson Burnes contrasts with statements Romney has made during his presidential campaign about his success creating jobs in the private sector.

            Oh come on like this is that surprising really.

            • 3 votes
            Reply#17 - Mon Dec 19, 2011 3:48 PM EST
            kevin saltzman

            What kind of life does one live working for Dominoes Pizza,living out of a cardboard box??

            • 3 votes
            Reply#18 - Mon Dec 19, 2011 4:24 PM EST
            Prophat247

            And just how many jobs has Pres. Obama created?

            Mr. Romney created more jobs with Bain Capital than Pres. Obama ever has.

            • 2 votes
            Reply#19 - Mon Dec 19, 2011 4:24 PM EST
            Mike-584822

            Prophat Romney's religion is a cult and the base is not going to vote him into the Presidental office. The base likes normal religions like Baptist.

              #19.1 - Tue Dec 20, 2011 7:03 AM EST
              Prophat247

              I thought this was about jobs not religion Mike.

              • 1 vote
              #19.2 - Tue Dec 20, 2011 10:13 AM EST
              thisbusymonster

              And just how many jobs has Pres. Obama created?

              http : //www .flickr .com/photos/davecjohnson/6088811219

              http ://www .oliverwillis .com/2011/04/01/chart-private-sector-job-growth-under-obama/

              1.8 million as of July of this year, according to the facts.

              • 1 vote
              #19.3 - Tue Dec 20, 2011 1:13 PM EST
              thisbusymonster

              More jobs charts:

              http : // articles .businessinsider .com/2010-02-05/wall_street/30088805_1

              Different versions of the same chart from different points along the timeline, all demonstrating quite plainly that under Obama, jobs continue to increase albeit slowly. And that under Bush, we were heading into an economic armageddon.

              • 1 vote
              #19.4 - Tue Dec 20, 2011 1:14 PM EST
              thisbusymonster

              Gee, it looks like once the facts showed up, right-wingers ran away. What a surprise.

                #19.5 - Wed Dec 21, 2011 12:14 PM EST
                Reply
                Frisco Kid

                Yes when companies get rid of unprofitable sections they make more money...Shutting down a plant is the risk your run with capitalism; actually with any system...

                • 1 vote
                Reply#20 - Mon Dec 19, 2011 4:30 PM EST
                knightofdespair

                Actually many of such instances occur when the company is making plenty* of money *(only 10% growth a year)

                The board meets, Mr. Smith says his wife needs a new Bentley and god forbid it comes out of his meager $5 million a year salary, nope we need to slash costs he says...

                So out on the production floor 1/5 of the workers get axed, the remaining 4/5 have not had a raise in 5 years and already do the work of 2 people each, they now must forgo bathroom breaks and food and slave away, meanwhile Mr. Smith contacts his local mayor... Mr. Smith makes a 'charitable' donation to the mayors wife's pet project and in return gets a tax exemption for the year, now Mr. Smith can afford the new Bentley for his wife without cutting into his insultingly small paycheck and all is well.

                Meanwhile all his friends and neighbors taxes go up another 2% due to the persistent high unemployment and sluggish consumer spending in the area.

                Gee who could ever fault such great capitalism as we have here in 2011, I wonder why the 40 odd countries who rank better than us in happiness, quality of life, health care, job satisfaction, crime rates, retirement and vacation, and education all look down on us.

                • 1 vote
                #20.1 - Tue Dec 20, 2011 12:21 PM EST
                Reply
                Jeff in Houston

                The Republican Plan:

                1. Gradually erase all laws that provide for even decent treatment of workers.
                2. Finish thier pruchase of the national government through the election of more Republicans.
                3. Break the will and spirit of all unions.
                4. Break the back and the will of the middle class.
                5. Once broken, dictate terms to the population in terms of what they will get paid, where they will live, where they will shop, and what they can have. The end of citizenship as we know it.
                6. While completing the Corporate State, install the National Religion, which the corporations purchased while they were purchasing the government.
                7. Advance to another country, or more than one country at once, and repeat the process.....complete subversion of the populace to the corporate will.
                • 6 votes
                Reply#21 - Mon Dec 19, 2011 4:37 PM EST
                Naughtia

                "He's going to go after me and say, you know, in businesses that you've invested in, they didn't all succeed," Romney said at last week's Republican debate. "Some failed. Some laid people off. And he'll be absolutely right." Yet Romney said that, overall, his investments produced tens of thousands of jobs. "In the real world, some things don't make it," Romney added.

                this is totally unlike solyndra, because if Obama invested in it, it MUST succeed or it is proof that Obama is the anti christ.

                • 3 votes
                Reply#22 - Mon Dec 19, 2011 4:39 PM EST
                greenpagan

                Hey that's Crapitalism our state religion. Luv it or lump it!

                • 3 votes
                Reply#23 - Mon Dec 19, 2011 5:00 PM EST
                lifeisgood43

                The thing is that Romney benefited personally from these deals. Even after admitting what was happening, he double down because with the statement of "golden goose"

                By the way, Romney's economyplan is for the rich's benefit only. Ronmey has already said that the middle class would be hurt.

                • 1 vote
                Reply#24 - Mon Dec 19, 2011 6:48 PM EST
                Rigbee Dugane

                The thing is that Romney benefited personally from these deals.

                It's called "having a job". See, when you "have a job," people pay you to do things. I've been doing it for decades. It's kind of cool, really.

                • 1 vote
                #24.1 - Tue Dec 20, 2011 9:52 AM EST
                knightofdespair

                It's called "having a job". See, when you "have a job," people pay you to do things. I've been doing it for decades. It's kind of cool, really.

                Yeah kind of like the mob and gang members have a job.

                • 1 vote
                #24.2 - Tue Dec 20, 2011 7:20 PM EST
                christopher michael

                Rigbee: what in lifeisgood's #24 comment suggests s/he has no job or doesn't understand the basic concept of work-for-pay? is it that the comment generally criticizes Romney? is it that it attempts to connect Romney's mindset with his intended policy?

                or is it just that you and people who share your views like to.....no, are obsessed with identifying people who don't support Republican and conservative ideology as lazy, jobless, free-ride seeking do-nothings, despite ANY evidence to support such a claim?

                i'm thinking the latter.

                perhaps you're familiar with the personal life of this Viner thru past commentary; if so, forgive me. either way, your suggestion that those who reject the positions of the Romney's of the world are, in this specific instance, any more than simple Americans just like you is a bit pompous and, with all due respect, a whole lot arrogant.

                • 1 vote
                #24.3 - Tue Dec 20, 2011 9:03 PM EST
                Rigbee Dugane

                Rigbee: what in lifeisgood's #24 comment suggests s/he has no job or doesn't understand the basic concept of work-for-pay?

                I have no idea whether lifeisgood43 works or not. His or her work status is irrelevant to my post.

                lifeisgood43 seemed to be implying that getting paid to work was something to be ashamed of. I'm just making the observation that the demonization of those who work for a living seems strange, especially if the accuser actually has a job.

                  #24.4 - Wed Dec 21, 2011 10:57 AM EST
                  christopher michael

                  while i don't agree that lifeisgood's work status is irrelevant to your original post, this is a very reasonable, honest reply, Rigbee. so why didn't you just say that in your post, instead of the suggestive nature of what you did say (which does seem to suggest LIG's work status is relevant)? also, my interpretation of LIG's comment is that doing something solely for the sake of personal gain can be damaging to the personal condition of others. i mean, i could sell a bunch of useless derivatives, loans and junk bonds on wall street for enormous personal gain, but that doesn't mean i should do it -- especially since a allot of blameless people would lose heavily solely for my gain. (wait. that already happened, didn't it?) but again, that was my interpretation; i understand that yours may have been different.

                  lastly, since you didn't address it, do you agree then that, while maybe not you, most people who share your views are obsessed with identifying people who don't support Republican and conservative ideology as lazy, jobless, free-ride seeking do-nothings, despite ANY evidence to support such a claim?

                    #24.5 - Wed Dec 21, 2011 1:58 PM EST
                    Rigbee Dugane

                    i could sell a bunch of useless derivatives, loans and junk bonds on wall street for enormous personal gain, but that doesn't mean i should do it

                    I agree. Are you claiming that Romney did any of those things?

                    Romney was hired, amongst other things, to save business. Sometimes some of the people who were not helping those businesses thrive had to be let go, so the rest of the people working there would continue to have a place to work.

                    Sometimes you have to amputate a limb to save a life.

                    do you agree then that, while maybe not you, most people who share your views are obsessed with identifying people who don't support Republican and conservative ideology as lazy, jobless, free-ride seeking do-nothings, despite ANY evidence to support such a claim?

                    Most? No. Some? Of course.

                      #24.6 - Mon Dec 26, 2011 11:13 AM EST
                      Reply
                      BLOGER-486140

                      Poor Romney, this is not a good year for a man who made millions outsourcing America's Jobs. He outsourced good manufacturing jobs and gutted American companies. To replace this carnage he gave us sales clerks jobs at Staples as a suitable replacement.

                      • 2 votes
                      Reply#25 - Mon Dec 19, 2011 10:41 PM EST
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