Norway mass killer demands medal at court hearing

The look on his face is truly ... insane. Arrogant on the surface, but so vacant everywhere else. If I didn't know anything about this case, or somehow missed it entirely - I would still find just the look of him to be unsettling.

He's clearly an extremist.... a madman... and it just goes to show that madness is not always something isolated to a single person, and that madness takes upon the atmosphere it finds itself.

Not all insane people are 'nazis in the soapdish' sorts.

The look on his face is truly ... insane. Arrogant on the surface, but so vacant everywhere else. If I didn't know anything about this case, or somehow missed it entirely - I would still find just the look of him to be unsettling.

I think this about every right-wing extremist I have ever seen.

This man is not insane. His political beliefs simply fall so far outside of the mainstream that to normal people whose views still fall on the spectrum he appears insane. He has justified these murders and atrocities based on his political beliefs, which may be paranoid and fearful, but he believes them. The horrifying truth is that if the world really was the way he perceives it then many of us would have contemplated doing the same. Such is human nature, unfortunately. His response to his beliefs was therefore rational. That however, is no excuse for the massacre of children. He should have had enough humanity in him to combat his beliefs. Since he clearly has disposed of his humanity in order to embrace his fears, knowingly committing this crime, he deserves to be castrated and locked away.

Eliminating this man does not eliminate the beliefs which drove him. Those beliefs are clearly evil. This man's intellect was simply too weak to defend against this belief structure and as such he is only a symptom of the problem. Efforts to combat this hatred and fear at its source must be redoubled.

I could say that we are lucky this hasn't happened here, but then it has. The Oklahoma bombing of the federal building. What do these guys have in common, what does he have in common with Timothy McVeigh? What does he have in common with Jared Loughner? How do we prevent this type of violence from happening again?

Then Mexico has this type of violence going on continually due to the drug cartels.

There is no excuse for the violence this man unleashed on people.

However, he is right about one thing- There are traitors who are embracing immigration to promote "an Islamic colonization of Norway. This much is true. It is happening.

The leftists in every Western country are promoting this same erosion of European peoples. In the United States, Europe, Australia, and every white nation on Earth, there is an insidious, carefully premeditated plot to "multiculturalize" and "integrate" massive numbers of immigrants from the third world into white countries. They are using the media, film, magazines and television, they are using the education system and government, and they are trying to program the people to believe that to not accept the disenfranchisement of their own (white) people is being "bigoted" and "racist". The governments of these countries allow it to happen, and threaten their nation's people with imprisonment and worse if they refuse to accept this irreversible demographic shift. Activist groups trying to bring the issue to people's attention are labeled "hate groups" and summarily banned or outlawed.

Such is necessary to weaken national identity in order to allow the globalist elitists to implement their One World Government.

He wants a medal for shooting at unarmed children? Wow. The challenge. The deep-seated patriotism towards his twisted belief system. I'm in awe.

What's next...head to the neo-natal intensive care unit and put cyanide in the formula?

Sadly, if we must explain to this waste of human pulp why his actions are demented, he simply would not understand.

Shuklack

The look on his face is truly ... insane.

I think the term you meant to use is mentally ill.

Insanity is a legal term that describes an individual's lessened legal culpability based on mental defect, or diminished capacity.

Anders Behring Breivik may be found to be insane, but he is almost certainly mentally ill.

Is this guy really any more insane than some of America's Presidents?

Truman dropped two atomic bombs on civilian targets, not military targets. He massacred women and children in an instant and sentenced many others to slow painful deaths even though the Japanese were already willing to surrender.

Nixon dropped napalm on villages filled with women and children in Vietnam and Cambodia. This was done even though neither country declared war on America nor did they represent a military threat to America.

Reagan massacred people in the tiny island of Grenada using the bogus excuse of protecting some medical students there.

Bush senior massacred women and children in Iraq after his administration had given that country the green light to invade Kuwait which was originally a part of Iraq.

Bush Jr. massacred women and children in Iraq based on the false claim that it had weapons of mass destruction.

How could these American Presidents commit such atrocities and still be considered sane, yet this guy is insane? Anders Behring Breivik's beliefs and actions would have to be considered moderate compared to what these Presidents have done.

Head you spew the a same toxic poison this guy does...Erosion of European peoples? Yet in the next breath cons can't bash those European peoples enough.

So as a uniculturalist, a cultural imperialist, tell me where in the constitution does it say immigrants have to adopt YOUR mindset? Some faith based homogenized fantasy you have adopted is required of them. Bet you think we are just chomping at the bit for Sharia law to take over the country and other pundit based fairy tales.

European powers colonized the land , interrupted there development and governed them till the mid 20th century...They have longstanding ties with their former colonies. They are intertwined, not by their former colonies designs, but by their own. Having been to Europe many times in the last decade, I have seen up close and personal how much bs the right wing memes have been ..OMg Europe has immigrants , but this @!$%# fed off the bull@!$%# right wing propaganda and in a violent reactionary way targeted and killed dozens of children at a liberal parties camp, and its being justified by the likes of right wingers like you and Pamela Gellar... Who goes so far as to sift through pictures of the camp Brevik camp, looking for , "non-Norwegians" who are supposedly muslim, nevermind that lap landers of the north have dark features. Someone who thinks like you is going to do the same thing here again, using the same warped logic...

not a judgement call , we had the good fortune of diversity of foodstuffs on the eurasian continent that enabled people to

This guy sounds eerily similar to Hitler. Hitler was insane too but accomplished a lot of what he set out to do. This guy needs to be put down or put away quickly. He is an extreme danger to society. Let's let the pot heads out of jail and make room for these kind of guys. And those guys should include those who don't want world peace. Our government aren't the good guys either so it seems. We are pathetic really. All the way around. :(

This man shows the insanity that right wing extremism creates. It was alive and living in Hitler and those who carried out mass murder of innocent people. If one compares the characteristics of a sociopath or psychopath to the ones of right wing extremists, they are too eerily the same. Right wing extremist, Islamic extremist they are all sociopaths. They don't live by our rules. They don't feel guilty about harming someone, destroying someone's life or even murdering someone. They are monsters. Their brains are not the same. They lack communication between areas of the brain associated with empathy and conscience.

I'm with ya' landspirit. :)

machinehead"There is no excuse for the violence this man unleashed on people. However, he is right about one thing- There are traitors who are embracing immigration to promote "an Islamic colonization of Norway. This much is true. It is happening."

that is a truth that is quietly happening all over the world. extremist Muslims use "the voting block". they move into an area, reproduce in mass quantities, and vote. it's a slow, quiet, and meticulas process but as we see in India, it works. . India is losing it's Hindu identity as more and more Muslims invade the voting process and oust Hindi politicians and pass pro-Muslim agenda.

but this guy, wow. what a way to make a point. looks as insane as Manson, and as charismatic as Hitler. what a combo. i'd like to see something around his neck - and it's not a medal.

I don't know the legal definition of insane but I do know that this man is smart enough to behave in a manner that fits the criteria/definition.

His determination that he is due a medal for what we see as heinous, murderous terrorism is based on his thinking that he had to make

a strike against "traitors" he said are embracing immigration to promote "an Islamic colonization of Norway."

He knows that he faces terror charges and he is prepared to present himself as mentally ill so that he can be sent to psychiatric care, get 'cured' and then be free, amongst the people to perpetrate more heinous acts of murderous terrorism.

Christ way to derail from Breyviks white christian nationalism.. Shut up already wth the Islamists are taking over the world...thats bul@!$%#, and they are not, I seen Europe up close and in person...not as described by conservatives on the brink of ISLAMIFICATION...this idiot killed children of the people he disagrees with politically, he wasn't killing muslims en mass, he was killing the white children of his white european brethren , and to bring up the same talking points that drove him over the edge is to give sanction to his actions! Enough of that. If we didn't want to mingle with middle easterners we wouldn't have plundered their wealth and occupied their land, if you don't want them migrating support policies that move them from tyranny to democracy so the don't have a hell hole to run from. This kind of bull@!$%# talk leads to "final solution talk"

Randy McMurphy- Head you spew the a same toxic poison this guy does...Erosion of European peoples? Yet in the next breath cons can't bash those European peoples enough.

What conservatives are bashing is the socialist system that the Europeans fell for in their countries. The system that is falling apart now. The same kind of system that always fails. The same system that the left-wingers are trying to shove down our throats here.

So as a uniculturalist, a cultural imperialist, tell me where in the constitution does it say immigrants have to adopt YOUR mindset? Some faith based homogenized fantasy you have adopted is required of them. Bet you think we are just chomping at the bit for Sharia law to take over the country and other pundit based fairy tales.

After reading your brilliant posts, I see now that I should be joining voices like yours and praising the suicide of the United States and the race and culture that built it.

I should boldly celebrate the massive influx of dark foreigners who have no concern for us, our heritage, our laws or traditions, and will change it to suit themselves as soon as they can.

I should be celebrating that these people are rapidly becoming the majority in the country that used to be ours, even though they still have their own countries back in their home lands, and we will have none.

I should visciously call any effort by white Americans to hold on to their own country as "hate" and "racism", and try to convince people that the only way to redeem themselves is to surrender their country, way of life, their lands, culture, and the veru DNA that makes them who they are.

I should look at the poverty, filth and squalor of the third world and proclaim loudly that we need this here in the States. Anything less and we would be suffuring from a crippling lack of diversity.

I should remember that these ideas that were always considered treasonous, should now be considered "compassion" and "intelligent moderation".

If I keep repeating my daily affirmations, perhaps I can one day become a bonafide left-wing communist (who denies that I want communism) and profess the wonderful words of "equality", "anti-racism" and "progressivism".

Well, maybe.

After reading your brilliant posts, I see now that I should be joining voices like yours and praising the suicide of the United States and the race and culture that built it.

I should boldly celebrate the massive influx of dark foreigners who have no concern for us, our heritage, our laws or traditions, and will change it to suit themselves as soon as they can.

Well... that says it all.

Thanks for sharing who you really are.

*ding*

I think your sheets are dry...

Jeez machinehead- did you even consider that the original "dark skinned" Americans may have thought the same thing about your ancestors? Do you honestly know so little about American history that you are unaware of the fact that rhetoric like yours has been spewed at evey new perceived threat- Irish, Italian, Polish heaven forbid Latino...

After reading your brilliant posts, I see now that I should be joining voices like yours and praising the suicide of the United States and the race and culture that built it.

African Americans?

I should boldly celebrate the massive influx of dark foreigners who have no concern for us, our heritage, our laws or traditions, and will change it to suit themselves as soon as they can.

Dark Foreigners? What about dem white Fer'ners ? Way to play your hand ,head. Anything White people have done to advance civilization has been because of dismissing racist and backwards attitudes like yours

I should be celebrating that these people are rapidly becoming the majority in the country that used to be ours, even though they still have their own countries back in their home lands, and we will have none.

Used to be yours? By what metric? The constitution says nothing about the United states belonging to any one race or culture. This ain't just your country,Its mine too. Its the Black Americans,the Hispanic americans,the Asian Americans. I see small minded pissants who think the "Dark Foreingers" are going to treat whites as badly as whites have treated these cultures.

I should visciously call any effort by white Americans to hold on to their own country as "hate" and "racism", and try to convince people that the only way to redeem themselves is to surrender their country, way of life, their lands, culture, and the veru DNA that makes them who they are.

I don't know about the viscious part. But yes it is hate and racism. What exactly is American DNA? It seems like you think yourself some part of a master race, in danger of having our magnificent DNA sullied because your daughter might find a nice Balck or latin man to have kids with. Your DNA ain't that special, no more special than anybody else on the planets regardless of color

I should look at the poverty, filth and squalor of the third world and proclaim loudly that we need this here in the States. Anything less and we would be suffuring from a crippling lack of diversity.

You should look at the 3rd world and be grateful that your ancestors won the lottery of location and timing...all that separated them from the 3rd world is diversity of flora and fauna on the eurasian continent and the good fortune of not spending most of their waking hours hunting for calories.

I should remember that these ideas that were always considered treasonous, should now be considered "compassion" and "intelligent moderation".

What would be considered treasonous...living up to the constitution? yeah theres some sound logic/s/

If I keep repeating my daily affirmations, perhaps I can one day become a bonafide left-wing communist (who denies that I want communism) and profess the wonderful words of "equality", "anti-racism" and "progressivism".

Well, maybe.

Well the Beck inspired fantasy caricature that you cast as liberal would be an improvement over A pathetic bigoted white supremacist who thinks their mindset is why their civilization advanced when it flourished DESPITE it. Not you btw .That would be a violation of COH , but people with similar mindsets, Like Breyvik *^P

Randy McMurphy -

I'm learning so much that I've never heard before. It's all so new.

I see now that we must consider every culture, race and people totally equal in every way. Then, when the situation doesn't mesh with that supposition, we will assign the blame to anything we can, from systemic racism, to "culturally biased tests", to underfunded schools, and whatever we can so avoid the dangerous and tragic admission that statistically people really are different, and really do form different kinds of societies.

This way, every time test results tell us things we don't want to hear, we can raise taxes and send more money to schools and communities to affect change. When that effort fails, we can assign more blame and level more racism charges, and raise more taxes to fund new programs to try to erradicate these differences. We can even pass more hate crime laws and government set asides to keep those with higher scores and economic prosperity in check and under the government's thumb.

Read a brief excerpt form Wikipedia about the 1994 book "The Bell Curve".

The Bell Curve, published in 1994, was written by Richard Herrnstein and Charles Murray as a work designed to explain, using empirical statistical analysis, the variations in intelligence in American Society, raise some warnings regarding the consequences of this intelligence gap, and propose national social policy with the goal of mitigating the worst of the consequences attributed to this intelligence gap. Many of the assertions put forth and conclusions reached by the authors are very controversial, ranging from the relationships between low measured intelligence and anti-social behavior, to the observed relationship between low African-American test scores (compared to whites and Asians) and genetic factors in intelligence abilities. The book was released and received with a large public response. In the first several months of its release, 400,000 copies of the book were sold around the world. Several thousand reviews and commentaries have been written in the short time since the book's publication. Herrnstein and Murray in many ways follow in the footsteps of UC Berkeley researcher Arthur Jensen, whose controversial article on the subject appeared in 1969 in the Harvard Educational Review. The Bell Curve argues that:

1. Intelligence exists and is accurately measurable across racial, language, and national boundaries.
2. Intelligence is one of, if not the most, important factors correlated to economic, social, and overall success in the United States, and its importance is increasing.
3. Intelligence is largely (40% to 80%) heritable.
4. No one has so far been able to manipulate IQ to a significant degree through changes in environmental factors—except for child adoption and that they conclude is not large in the long term—and in light of these failures, such approaches are becoming less promising.
5. The USA has been in denial of these facts. A better public understanding of the nature of intelligence and its social correlates is necessary to guide future policy decisions.

Perhaps the next necessary step is to pass laws forbiding the kind of research listed here, on the grounds that it promotes racism. Perhaps we should allow the government to confiscate all the homes, property and bank accounts of Americans so that those things can be redistributed equally, and imprison those who don't comply in the name of compassion and fairness.

I'm sure you also are aware of extensive critiques on the theories presented in the "The Bell Curve" but ultimately:

even if there is a correlation between race and intelligence, this would have no "social consequences except in a racist society in which each individual is assigned to a racial category and dealt with not as an individual in his own right, but as a representative of this category … In a non-racist society, the category of race would be of no greater significance [than height].^[23]

Meloney- I'm sure you also are aware of extensive critiques on the theories presented in the "The Bell Curve" but ultimately:

even if there is a correlation between race and intelligence, this would have no "social consequences except in a racist society in which each individual is assigned to a racial category and dealt with not as an individual in his own right, but as a representative of this category … In a non-racist society, the category of race would be of no greater significance [than height].^[23]

No consequence? Pure nonsense. Your quote with missing source is simply an erroneous position whose ultimate goal is not to find truth, but to create a consensus that fits the left-wing aganda. These kinds of excuses are often seen, but will not hold up to scrutiny. It is this reason that the primary response of leftists toward studies like this one are simply to demonize the very idea of such studies in the first place. They cannot disprove the facts, so they keep the facts from being discovered and discussed in the public arena.

The implications of intelligence on society are of grave importance to the future of any nation, and the fabric of that nation will be determined by those that make up the populations as a whole.

Again from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bell_Curve

The book argued the average genetic IQ of the United States is declining due to the tendency of the more intelligent to have fewer children than the less intelligent, for the generation length to be shorter for the less intelligent, and through the large scale immigration to the United States of those with low intelligence. The United States will become increasingly like Latin America, with high IQ whites and Asians living in fortified enclaves protected by high fences and armed guards from "the menace of the slums" below.

In a discussion of the future political outcomes of an intellectually stratified society, they stated that they "fear that a new kind of conservatism is becoming the dominant ideology of the affluent - not in the social tradition of an Edmund Burke or in the economic tradition of an Adam Smith but 'conservatism' along Latin American lines, where to be conservative has often meant doing whatever is necessary to preserve the mansions on the hills from the menace of the slums below".^[1] Moreover, they fear that increasing welfare will create a "custodial state" in "a high-tech and more lavish version of the Indian reservation for some substantial minority of the nation's population." They also predict increasing totalitarianism: "It is difficult to imagine the United States preserving its heritage of individualism, equal rights before the law, free people running their own lives, once it is accepted that a significant part of the population must be made permanent wards of the states".^[2]

Herrnstein and Murray recommended the elimination of welfare policies that encourage poor women to have babies:

We can imagine no recommendation for using the government to manipulate fertility that does not have dangers. But this highlights the problem: The United States already has policies that inadvertently social-engineer who has babies, and it is encouraging the wrong women. "If the United States did as much to encourage high-IQ women to have babies as it now does to encourage low-IQ women, it would rightly be described as engaging in aggressive manipulation of fertility." The technically precise description of America's fertility policy is that it subsidizes births among poor women, who are also disproportionately at the low end of the intelligence distribution. We urge generally that these policies, represented by the extensive network of cash and services for low-income women who have babies, be ended. The government should stop subsidizing births to anyone rich or poor. The other generic recommendation, as close to harmless as any government program we can imagine, is to make it easy for women to make good on their prior decision not to get pregnant by making available birth control mechanisms that are increasingly flexible, foolproof, inexpensive, and safe.^[3]

wow.

again.

At least he's persistent...

Better get those sheets out of the dryer before they get wrinkly...

Your quote with missing source ... - It's from the same source as your quote dude - the wiki page for the book. Evidently you are cherry picking "facts" if you missed that.

Simply will gladly give the medal only if this psycho accepts a one way to hell.

Meloney

Your quote with missing source ...

- It's from the same source as your quote dude - the wiki page for the book. Evidently you are cherry picking "facts" if you missed that.ad to

I see. What you did was cherry pick your own paragraph, and cut out the beginning that stated "Noam Chomsky in 1972 in an earlier debate with Herrnstein argued..."

First of all, that was a debate on the topic of race differences in intelligence in 1972, and not a study. The book The Bell Curve was published in 1994, 22 years later.

Second, Noam Chomsky did not have the massive and detailed study that the Bell Curve was compiled from to base his argument.

The point that you, as well as most people, miss is that this issue is not about "hate". This issue needs to be acknowledged because important policy decisions have been, and are still being made on the false belief that there is no difference in intelligence and the races.

Therefore when some groups like African Americans continue scoring significantly lower on SAT's and show lower scholastic performance, the proposed solution is always to throw more money at the problem, and punish others, like whites in the never ending effort to "level the playing field" that cannot be leveled in this way. That is NOT justice.

No Machinehead, we shouldn't lower our standards. The black people aren't less intelligent then anyone else. When many blacks were brought here against their will, many white men and women oppressed them and refused to educate them. They wanted them inferior and less intelligent because they didn't want the blacks to become their equal. Well, evolution did it any way and regardless of what the slave owners wanted, black people still got smarter. We do learn from our fathers and enough time has passed that the cultural problem has now shifted back some and black men don't seem to stick around. As long as they continue to have lower expectations of themselves and accept the "help" as an African American, others won't have the same expectations of them as others either. Some might be foolish enough to go as far as to say that they're inferior because they accept the help. The thing is, they do have many many smart people. They're tolerance for their brother is too high in my opinion. They're the only ones that can change it now and many are doing it. Fewer and fewer blacks are keeping quiet when terrorised by gangs in their neighborhood. More and more black men are committing themselves to their families and it is getting better. The girls already tried to pull the "black" card with me at Church. I told them that I would be dishonoring them as individuals if I expected less of them then I do the others. They don't disrespect me because I have an expectation of a certain level of behavior that they've been taught and understand.

Becky-2100114 - We agree on several points here.

I concur that people will often conform to expectations, and that many things factor into one's intelligence, including family, culture, diet...and race.

If you read the Bell Curve, you would see that in every group there are some individuals that fall into the low I.Q. range, some that fall into the high I.Q. range, and the majority of them fall at a prticular average score in the middle. That middle range (which represents the highest numbers of the group) does not match across different groups. This has been corrected for socio-economic status and other factors that would be expected to have an effect on measured intelligence.

The results are consistant, and there is a significant measured difference in the distribution of average scores between races. What's more, intelligence is not a measure of education. It is a measure of one's ability to conceive and process complex and abstract concepts.

The point of my argument is that if we continue to deny and cover-up the facts because of our desire to meet some mythical ideal of equality, we will set ourselves up for failure and injustice by dumbing-down tests, wasting countless taxpayer dollars, destroying the quality of our education, and punishing those who excell in the name of "equality of outcome".

We will never have equality of outcome. We can have equality of opportunity. I don't see anything wrong with setting a level of expectation and people either meet that or they don't. We need the different levels in our economy. White collar and blue collar workers make our world go round. I see nothing wrong with simple. Simple people are needed and they don't get bored with mundane tasks. lol One of our biggest problems as a society is our sense of entitlement. Breathing doesn't make someone entitled. It's up to us to make our own lives and not leave that up to others to do for us. Victims rarely take ownership for what is within their control.

This issue needs to be acknowledged because important policy decisions have been, and are still being made on the false belief that there is no difference in intelligence and the races.

The issue "needs" to be addressed in societies that determine individuals may be categorized racially for purposes of public policy. There are societies that that do this routinely (and historical examples) and others that strive for inclusion without regard to inherent qualities (basically those not chosen by the individual like age, gender, ethnicity, place of birth ...).

... the false belief that there is no difference in intelligence and the races.

It sounds like you have set up a false dicotomy. Your argument poses a choice for purposes of public policy between making racial classifications or not making those classifications.

However, depending on the wider social goals, policy may or may not find any individual characteristic significant. It is possible to make policy without regard to classification by race. This does not necessarily indicate a belief that all individuals are the same but that for purposes of considered policy racial classification is not significant. The virtue in dismissing the significance of race is that individuals have the opportunity for self expression without regard to membership within a class.

Of course there are also virtues in considering public policy issues that do indicate individuals as a member of a class. In most societies there is designation in age classes that relate to level of indiviual responsibility, or expectations of participation - ie children (minors) or elderly - that are part of public policy. They might provide for the ability to acknowledge and accomodate individual differences and minimize the restrictions to an individual's potential or opportunity.

What important policy issues do you think would be enhanced by racially classifying it's participants or the people to which policy applies?

machinehead

I see now that I should be joining voices like yours and praising the suicide of the United States and the race and culture that built it.

Oh dear, the sky is falling.

I should boldly celebrate the massive influx of dark foreigners who have no concern for us, our heritage, our laws or traditions, and will change it to suit themselves as soon as they can.

That's right, Cletus, it's them or us.

This is absolutely a zero-sum game. If the "dark foreigners" win, the precious Aryan race will lose.

I should be celebrating that these people are rapidly becoming the majority in the country that used to be ours, even though they still have their own countries back in their home lands, and we will have none.

Obama, and all of the other "dusky foreigners" should go back to their homes in the country of Africa. Everyone knows that the US belongs to the indigenous Americans. We, the wan-complected American aborigines, shall defend our homeland to the last!

I should visciously call any effort by white Americans to hold on to their own country as "hate" and "racism", and try to convince people that the only way to redeem themselves is to surrender their country, way of life, their lands, culture, and the veru DNA that makes them who they are.

We cannot allow this pure nation to perish from the Earth! Mine Fuhrur, errr..My president is not some vile mudblood. We serve He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named, and the Dark Lord will wipe all of Muggles from our land!

I should look at the poverty, filth and squalor of the third world and proclaim loudly that we need this here in the States. Anything less and we would be suffuring from a crippling lack of diversity.

Right?! Every time I stroll through my neighborhood, next to the industrial park, I think about how the Liberals want to turn my beauteous home into a pre-industrial hell-scape.

I should remember that these ideas that were always considered treasonous, should now be considered "compassion" and "intelligent moderation".

Exactly! One of these days Miniluv is going to catch up to 'ol Emmanuel Goldstein.

If I keep repeating my daily affirmations, perhaps I can one day become a bonafide left-wing communist (who denies that I want communism) and profess the wonderful words of "equality", "anti-racism" and "progressivism".

Well, maybe.

Have another glass of the knifey moloko on me, machinehead.

Awesome, Zen-Hydra! I was having to walk away from this one, just unfathomable to me that people with this mind set walk among us.

Meloney-What important policy issues do you think would be enhanced by racially classifying it's participants or the people to which policy applies?

You can't have it both ways. Either you stop classiying race alltogether - along with all the special perks that SOME get, like affirmative action, set-asides in hiring and government contracts and business loans for minorities, or acknowledge the differences that do exist, and take steps to reduce the reproduction of those undesirables who are more prone to low I.Q., violence, low productivity and high state dependency, and encourage the growth of desirables.

Zen-Hydra-This is absolutely a zero-sum game. If the "dark foreigners" win, the precious Aryan race will lose.

Obviously you are being sarcastic. Just as obvious is your lack of knowledge about the shift occurring in global demographics. Whites, including those in every country they live in are a global minority...and shrinking fast. So, in a sense, yes, the "Aryans" are disappearing.

I know, I know, folks like you think this is a great thing that whitey will be gone, even though you'll fret about the coming extinction of some species of owl, bird or fish. Ultimately, you all are so intoxicated by your own self-gratifying feelings of moral superiority from your "anti-racist" views that you cannot understand the implications of the populations becoming less intelligent and less able to sustain a superpower.

The United States is rapidly becoming a shadow of it's former self along with the shift in population. This land (and Europe) will become an impoverished, unproductive country in steep decline, and WILL eventually be taken over by the Chinese. The Chinese don't believe in multiculturalism, and they're smart. While we in the U.S. continue to produce basketball players and sports stars, rap singers, hip-pop dancers and reality T.V. stars, China is producing engineers, scientists and skilled laborers like we once did, only there's a over a BILLION people in China.

Your grandchildren will wonder how this happened to us, and why no one would stop it. They will have folks like you to thank for it. But hey, at least you can tell them how you were so superior to all those darned racists.

Awesome Timetravler :)

timetravler100

Obviously you are being sarcastic. Just as obvious is your lack of knowledge about the shift occurring in global demographics. Whites, including those in every country they live in are a global minority...and shrinking fast. So, in a sense, yes, the "Aryans" are disappearing.

I know, I know, folks like you think this is a great thing that whitey will be gone, even though you'll fret about the coming extinction of some species of owl, bird or fish. Ultimately, you all are so intoxicated by your own self-gratifying feelings of moral superiority from your "anti-racist" views that you cannot understand the implications of the populations becoming less intelligent and less able to sustain a superpower.

Race is an arbitrary, social construct. Science does not support the concept of race, and of all the Great Apes, Homo Sapiens shows the least amount of genetic diversity.

There is no "White" ethnicity to save from extinction.

There is no correlation between melanin density and intelligence, and insisting there is such a connection is willful ignorance. Let me guess, you (and good 'ol machinehead) probably believe that Ashkenazi Jews aren't "White," that they have secret devil horns, and that a select cabal of Jewish leaders pulls the strings of the world from the confines of an undisclosed cave.

Please go read some biology texts, and consider deleting the ridiculous pseudo-science from your brain.

The United States is rapidly becoming a shadow of it's former self along with the shift in population.

Those were the good ol' days, those were the good ol' days. They were good! They were old! They were days! Those were the good ol' days.

This land (and Europe) will become an impoverished, unproductive country in steep decline, and WILL eventually be taken over by the Chinese.

...so says the great pythonic doom-speaker!

The Chinese don't believe in multiculturalism, and they're smart.

...because they hide tiny cheat-sheets in their epicanthic folds.

While we in the U.S. continue to produce basketball players and sports stars, rap singers, hip-pop dancers and reality T.V. stars,

...don't forget porn, crystal meth, atheists, abortions, teh gays, and hobos. You were making a list of things that you don't want on your lawn, right?

China is producing engineers, scientists and skilled laborers like we once did, only there's a over a BILLION people in China.

I suppose I should tell all the American-born scientists, and engineers, whom I work with that they are retroactively Chinese.

Have you heard of the brain-drain phenomenon? Most of the world complains about how the US recruits the lion's-share of their scientists (and engineers) to work in the US. Since we can't produce enough scientists (and engineers) to keep up with our demands, we poach them from other countries.

Your grandchildren will wonder how this happened to us, and why no one would stop it. They will have folks like you to thank for it. But hey, at least you can tell them how you were so superior to all those darned racists.

If my grandchildren ask me why I didn't support a Racial Holy War to save the magical "White" race from illusory adversaries, I will slap them so hard that the universe implodes. Then all of your (and everyone else's) problems will be solved.

I will never need to tell my grandchildren how superior I am to a racist, because people like you do such an excellent job making that argument for me.

ahha ha, Zen-Hydra thank you for the light-ening. I was so astounded to see the dogmatic support in favor of racism I didn't know what to say.

Cheers, Meloney.

Racism is such a logically unsupportable notion that I find it difficult to take even the most frothing-ly rabid argument for it seriously.

People who support racism, are like the delusional parents of "indigo children." Nothing says pathetic desperation like making up excuses about why you (and your offspring) are special.

FYI, having pale skin doesn't make you special, it makes you prone to sunburns and skin cancer.

Zen-Hydra- Race is an arbitrary, social construct. Science does not support the concept of race, and of all the Great Apes, Homo Sapiens shows the least amount of genetic diversity.

No. This is false pseudo-scientific nonsense that sociologists (with leftist leanings) have been trying to push for years, but it is an easily disproved lie. Forensic scientists can identify the race of someone from only a skeleton. You can't try and quote science when you don't know science. I was educated in the sciences, and would bet a million Dollars I have far more university education than you.

Meloney--ahha ha, Zen-Hydra thank you for the light-ening. I was so astounded to see the dogmatic support in favor of racism I didn't know what to say.

I'm astounded at your narrow mindedness and refusal to even look outside the mental box you have been brainwashed into believing, even when it can be scientifically demonstrated that you are wrong. But then, you are leftists, and that tends to go with the territory. Accepting the factual differences in race is not racism. Since I'm not suggesting harming people of any certain group, I am not promoting "racism". Beyond that, nobody really cares what you think.

There is plenty of information available on the subject if you cared to educate yourself. With some effort and an open mind, you may be find that serious scientific study is a better way to find the truth than blindly following leftist propaganda.

The following link is a good article that you can use to rid yourself of your programmed ignorance.

http://www.news-medical.net/news/2005/04/26/9530.aspx

"Neither the existence nor the size of race differences in IQ are a matter of dispute, only their cause," write the authors. The Black-White difference has been found consistently from the time of the massive World War I Army testing of 90 years ago to a massive study of over 6 million corporate, military, and higher-education test-takers in 2001.

"Race differences show up by 3 years of age, even after matching on maternal education and other variables," said Rushton. "Therefore they cannot be due to poor education since this has not yet begun to exert an effect. That's why Jensen and I looked at the genetic hypothesis in detail. We examined 10 categories of evidence."

timetravler100

No. This is false pseudo-scientific nonsense that sociologists (with leftist leanings) have been trying to push for years, but it is an easily disproved lie.

I'm afraid you are the one who is mistaken. If you are as well educated as you claim to be why would you say "...false pseudo-scientific..."? Doing so makes you appear sub-literate.

You are the one making bold, unsupported statements about hypotheses that have been debunked time-and-again. The burden of proof is on you. Present us with evidence that can bear unbiased scrutiny.

Forensic scientists can identify the race of someone from only a skeleton.

Forensic anthropologists are able make calculated guesses at identifying a skeleton's ethnicity, but there is a margin for error. Such identifications are no more relevant in proving the genetic basis for race than skin color is.

No one is disputing that there are people that have similar sets of characteristics with one another. What is disputed is whether people with shared characteristics are substantively different than other similarly grouped people.

You can't try and quote science when you don't know science. I was educated in the sciences, and would bet a million Dollars I have far more university education than you.

When you make statements like the one above, you actively undermine any credibility you may have had. No one care what your alleged credentials are. Anyone can lie about who they are on the internet.

Only your arguments matter here. Either you can present a cogent position supported by verifiable facts, or you can't and are dismissed without a second glance.

No one is disputing that there are people that have similar sets of characteristics with one another.

Exactly.

What I added was that those characteristics do not imply a need or requirement for policy that pertains to them (which was dismissed 1.33). I asked (respectfully, in 1.30) what policy ought to use race as a criteria. Why should that criteria be significant to particular policy any more than some other physical attribute?

timetravler100

The article you linked to, and quoted, is based on the research of Arthur Jensen and J. Philippe Rushton. Both men are psychologists, and their research has been largely debunked (as of 2012 CE).

"Human Biodiversity" racial evolutionary claims of JP Rushton debunked

//knol.google.com/k/mainstream-academic-research/human-biodiversity-racial-evolutionary/3q8x30897t2cs/28#

JP Rushton, Michael Levin, Richard Lynn debunked. Weaknesses of Jared Diamond;s approach.

//nilevalleypeoples.blogspot.com/2010/04/blog-post_1818.html

Racism Resurgent: How Media Let The Bell Curve's Pseudo-Science Define the Agenda on Race

//www.fair.org/index.php?page=1271

The Mismeasure of Man

//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Mismeasure_of_Man

Scientific Racism

//www.enotes.com/topic/Scientific_racism

//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_racism

Zen-Hydra-Only your arguments matter here. Either you can present a cogent position supported by verifiable facts, or you can't and are dismissed without a second glance.

Already done, and done again. I offered detailed explanations with sources. What I have NOT seen is ANY proof on your part that conclusively disproves the link between race and intelligence. You will find nothing credible, because the issue is genuine, verifiable and repeatable.

All you will be able to find are some emotionally driven arguments by left-wingers that attempt to cast doubt on the issue by attempting to confuse the matter, or claim that the assertion has been "debunked" without a shred of scientifically tested and verified proof of their claims, just as you have done.

For the record, blogs and Wikipedia are NOT credible sources for offering proof.

From the Wikipedia article, you have no doubt grabbed on the the first sentence:

"Scientific racism is the use of scientific techniques and hypotheses to sanction the belief in racial superiority, inferiority or racism. ^[1]"

But more relevant to the topic at hand, where scientific statistical studies were being conducted is the following paragraph:

"This is not the same as using scientific findings and the scientific method to investigate differences among the humans and argue that there are races. In biological classification differences between animal groups are investigated without necessarily claiming that one group is superior to others."

Even though the studies conclude that some groups outscore others in I.Q., it makes no statememt of condemning the lesser-scoring groups, or suggesting they should be mistreated or have fewer rights than others.

The only thing that remains for leftists to support their arguments is the effort to exaggerate the "fuzzy edges" aroud classifications. This is insufficient.

timetravler100 -

Even though the studies conclude that some groups outscore others in I.Q., it makes no statememt of condemning the lesser-scoring groups, or suggesting they should be mistreated or have fewer rights than others.

well, the studies you cite might not but you, yourself have

1.33

acknowledge the differences that do exist, and take steps to reduce the reproduction of those undesirables who are more prone to low I.Q., violence, low productivity and high state dependency, and encourage the growth of desirables.

Are you backing off that assertion now? If so what are you arguing? What is it you think you are "proving" by citing studies?

Meloney

acknowledge the differences that do exist, and take steps to reduce the reproduction of those undesirables who are more prone to low I.Q., violence, low productivity and high state dependency, and encourage the growth of desirables.

Are you backing off that assertion now? If so what are you arguing?

Those assertions are still mine. However, those assertions are not prerequisites of doing studies that measure racial differences. Hence, the studies themselves that seek to measure these things are not "scientific racism" as implied in #1.41, they are science. Whether they are well received or politically correct is totally irrelevant.

What is it you think you are "proving" by citing studies?

Are you learning disabled? What I proved was my original statement that race is real, and that there are measurable differences in intelligence between them. As a consequence, when the lower I.Q. populations grow rapidly, and the higher I.Q. populations diminish, the country as a whole will suffer and experience an undeniable decline in productivity, prosperity and living standards.

tt - "there are measurable differences"

Not in dispute.

You did see?

No one is disputing that there are people that have similar sets of characteristics with one another.

Your forecast consequences and corresponding advocacy of racist policies is.

Proving there are measurable differences is not proof of your forecasts or prescriptions.

And the same smug and hateful look on their face.

Yes, like the guy that shot Gabby Gifford and others.

Can people like him do something normal good hardworking people can celebrate...they never seem to. Fry him...useless eater!

It came out of the South. I have been living in a state with essentially a Tea Party government for more than a decade. The effects are obvious. My state is near the bottom of nearly every quality of life ranking. This is where those ridiculous pledges began and where some of the first townhalls were overrun. This is Demint Country. Enough said. Wouldn't wish it on anyone! Moderates Republicans are not welcome here. And you will see them even tear into Sen. Lindsay Graham (R-SC) in 2014. He is considered too moderate because he has actually talked to the other side. But read some of the crazy things he has said trying to endear himself to these wacko's. It is what he believes is required for his re-election.

Those like West are so misguided you wonder how they retain the notion that they are "legally sane"? Anyone calling for their opponents to leave has clearly run out of valid arguments. Not that West has ever had many of those either.

It took the biggest Domestic terrorist attack for the black helicopter crowd to can their bull@!$%#...I fear it will take another right wing mass casualty attack before they reign in their loons, if they are able to do so at all.

I know what you mean. I have been living in Arizona for the past fifteen years. We have the second highest forclosure rates, guns everywhere (and now some douche bag wants them on college campuses), pretty bad public schools, etc. We have a governor who sticks her finger in the face of President Obama, a sheriff who is absolutely nuts over immigration and who is a birther, guys who bring guns to where the president was speaking a few years ago, Giffords getting shot after Palin puts her name (along with other Democrats) on a cross-hairs map, etc.

Times like this I worry about it...If the President wins the next election like I believe he will I fear its almost a certainty...the instability is there, their fringe just needs a tipping point cue..

a sheriff who is absolutely nuts over immigration and who is a birther

I'd disagree with you here. Sheriff Joe is a megalomaniacal nutbag who will say he believes in whatever will get him the most publicity. The guy has no principles whatsoever except to promote himself.

But I agree with everything else you said.

That sentencing is due to the pyschiatric evaluation that found him insane no? I think that's why he's refusing to let them have another evaluation. He wants to take advantage of the relatively lighter sentencing the decision would render.

He wants to take advantage of the relatively lighter sentencing the decision would render.

The way the system works in Norway is that he will be placed in a psychiatric hospital for an indefinite period of time. He will have periodic hearings to determine if he still presents a threat if released. A regular prison sentence would have a firm release date. It's quite likely that he will reside in that hospital for the rest of his life.

The way the system works in Norway is ...

Would you also happen to know if the insanity decision will alter his trial in respect to his being able to speak for himself?

Many survivors have expressed concern that Breivik will use court hearings to draw attention to his extremist views.

Is there any difference in court proceedings for a sane v insane defendant or can he turn the courtroom into a platform for his brand of politics either way?

Would you also happen to know if the insanity decision will alter his trial in respect to his being able to speak for himself?

Dammit Jim, I'm an CAD tech, not a Norwiegen lawyer. ;)

Seriously though, that's something I recall reading back when this first happened. I'm not sure how that would affect what he does in his trial.

*looks for Jim* ?

thanks anyway redphish

My nerdness is showing. I guess you're not a fan of the original Star Trek.

oh, yes, as would have been uttered by Bones. um, me thinks it also shows your age, heh. I was a companion to a fan and was subjected to most all of the original but would rather have been doing something else.

It's 21 years if he's found sane I think... and he could be released next week if he's found insane but later some right wing nutjob doctor at the hospital decides he's sane.

I was a companion to a fan and was subjected to most all of the original but would rather have been doing something else.

So would all star trek fans, but most of them couldn't get girlfriends so their options for doing something else were limited to doing things they were ashamed to do... lol.

Davej, your comment reminds me of how appropriate and descriptive the phrase, the banality of evil, actually is.

Based on the history of our species, violent behavior is humanities default state. Civilization is the illusion that we wrap ourselves in to hide from the hard truths about who we are. Humans have spent far more of our existence murdering each other for better hunting/foraging territory than we have trading slips of paper for our food and shelter. Such aggression hasn't been bred out of us, it's only been subsumed by societal expectations into less overt violence.

Well ... I guess it's no loonier than the fascists who blame the poor for their pain ... like some "leaders" do here in America.

How about giving Breivik his wish and deliver him a 14.3 gram, lead, medal that is jacketed in copper at the rate of 2,700 feet-per-second. I think that would be a win/win for all parties

The Bell Curve, it turns out, is full of mistakes ranging from sloppy reasoning to mis-citations of sources to outright mathematical errors. Unsurprisingly, all the mistakes are in the direction of supporting the authors' thesis.

Should any of that stop someone from citing it as scholarly work 17 years later?