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High court torn over law banning lies about medals

Wed Feb 22, 2012 11:54 AM EST
politics, us, supreme-court, court, valor, stolen-valor
Mark Sherman, Associated Press
The Supreme Court is hearing a case today that's one of the first involving prosecution under the Stolen Valor Act. The AP's David Melendy reports.
< PreviousNext >
showing 1 of 6 photos
<p>In this photo taken Wednesday, Feb. 8, 2012, Doug and Pam Sterner are photographed in their home in Alexandria, Va. Pam is the author of a college paper that led to the drafting of a federal law in 2006, the Stolen Valor Act, aimed at curbing false claims of military valor, and Doug exposes phony medal winners. (AP Photo/Carolyn Kaster)</p>

In this photo taken Wednesday, Feb. 8, 2012, Doug and Pam Sterner are photographed in their home in Alexandria, Va. Pam is the author of a college paper that led to the drafting of a federal law in 2006, the Stolen Valor Act, aimed at curbing false claims of military valor, and Doug exposes phony medal winners. (AP Photo/Carolyn Kaster)

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WASHINGTON — Free speech cases before the Supreme Court often lead justices to consider far-fetched scenarios, and Wednesday's argument over a law making it a crime to lie about having received top military honors was no exception.

One after another, the justices wanted to know whether a decision upholding the Stolen Valor Act could lead down a slippery slope to new laws against such things as lying about the Holocaust, an extramarital affair, a high school diploma, college degrees or to impress a date.

"Where do you stop?" Chief Justice John Roberts asked at one point.

But the justices also suggested that it might be possible in this case to uphold the 2006 law anyway by reasoning that Congress has an interest in protecting medals it created to honor war heroes.

Justice Anthony Kennedy, who asked about lies about college degrees, also seemed open to sustaining the law.

"Here it does seem to me that you can argue that this is something like a trademark, a medal in which the government and the armed forces have a particular interest, and we could carve out a narrow exception for that. I think we would have to do that," Kennedy said.

The high court has in recent years overwhelmingly rejected limits on speech, striking down a federal ban on videos showing graphic violence against animals and a state law aimed at keep violent video games away from children. The court also rejected the attempt by the father of a dead Marine to sue fundamentalist church members who staged a mocking protest at his son's funeral.

And in 1989, the court said the Constitution protects the burning of the American flag.

Justice Sonia Sotomayor said the earlier cases made clear that merely offending others by itself is not enough to justify limiting speech.

"So outside of the emotional reaction, where's the harm? And I'm not minimizing it. I, too, take offense when people make these kinds of claims, but I take offense when someone I'm dating makes a claim that's not true," said Sotomayor, who is divorced.

She seemed the least willing member of the court to accept the Obama administration's defense of the law and disputed the view that the value of the highest award, the Medal of Honor, or any others has been diminished because some people lie about having received them.

The administration's top Supreme Court lawyer, Solicitor General Donald Verrilli Jr., defended the law as targeted to protect the integrity of the system established by Gen. George Washington in 1782. Wednesday was Washington's 280th birthday.

"The Stolen Valor Act regulates a very narrowly drawn and specific category of calculated factual falsehood, a verifiably false claim that an individual has won a military honor," Verrilli said.

On the other side from Sotomayor was Justice Antonin Scalia. "When Congress passed this legislation, I assume it did so because it thought that the value of the awards that these courageous members of the armed forces were receiving was being demeaned and diminished by charlatans. That's what Congress thought," Scalia said.

Jonathan Libby, the federal public defender arguing against the law, said Congress' intent is hard to discern because it passed the legislation without any hearings.

The effort to limit the reach of a ruling in favor of the law appeared to be the court's most pressing concern.

Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg wondered whether Congress could use the same rationale put forth by Verrilli to justify laws against denying the existence of the Holocaust or lying merely about having served in the military.

Justice Elena Kagan asked whether the government's concern about the stability of the family could lead to a law "to prevent everybody from telling lies about their extramarital affairs."

Several justices expressed concern that a ruling striking down the law might also call into question a separate provision that makes it a crime to actually wear an unearned medal.

Libby's client, Xavier Alvarez, was one of the first people prosecuted for violating the Stolen Valor Act. Alvarez told a meeting of the Three Valleys Municipal Water District in Pomona, Calif., to which he had been elected, that he was a wounded war veteran who has received the Medal of Honor.

He never served in the armed forces.

Libby said public exposure of lies about military medals is preferable to prosecution. Alvarez "still was exposed for who he was, which was a liar," Libby said.

The two federal appeals courts that have considered the issue have come to different conclusions. The 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in San Francisco struck down the law in Alvarez's case. The 10th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in Denver upheld the law in the case of another false claim of military valor.

Civil liberties groups, writers, publishers and news media outlets, including The Associated Press, have told the justices they worry that the law, and especially the administration's defense of it, could lead to more attempts by government to regulate speech.

Veterans groups are backing the administration.

If the court were to strike down the law, legislation proposed by Rep. Joe Heck, R-Nev., would make it a crime to benefit from lying about a military record.

A decision is expected by late June.

The case is U.S. v. Alvarez, 11-210.

___

Online:

Military Times Hall of Valor database: http://militarytimes.com/citations-medals-awards

© 2012 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.
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  • Public Discussion (20)
Carol O MI

Oh wow. Against the law now for lying, too. I worked at the American Legion for years. According to the old guys there that lived on their bar stools 6 hours a day, everyone of them was telling fibs. Ya think it wise to look them all up so you can charge some 80 year old with lying?

    Reply#1 - Wed Feb 22, 2012 12:34 PM EST
    fernando-2143457

    It's not so much about lying on a bar stool at a VFW or AL, its about wearing the uniform and making speeches in front of large audiences wearing medals you didn't earn.

    • 3 votes
    #1.1 - Wed Feb 22, 2012 1:39 PM EST
    MartyMoose

    I think there is a potential for a narrow ruling. What brought this case on was Xavier Alvarez, an elected official, lying about public service and a public award in a public meeting. Basically he is defrauding the public so they will support him politically. I think in that narrow context, it should be a crime.

    It also needs to be a black and white thing. You were in the military or you weren't. You won this award or you didn't. It can't be the kind of debatable thing that politicians do all the time like taking credit for an improving economy. That would be way too vague.

    I'd love to see it be a crime to lie on your resume. I've been telling the truth for years about my education and experience and my honesty isn't getting me anywhere. According to this study, more than half of people lie on their resumes: Over 53% of candidates lie on their resume and 80% of resumes are misleading.

      #1.2 - Wed Feb 22, 2012 2:10 PM EST
      Student of Life

      Marty,

      As an actual combat wounded veteran - I'm torn on this. On one hand, I agree with Sotomayer that after the emotional response of discovering you've been lied to its really of little consequence. However I'm also with Scalia that to the average viewerit disenfranchises the value of these awards.

      Personally, I don't need anyone to assign a 'value' to the awards I've received. Unfortunately, I have more than enough memories of the events that merited them to give them 'value'.

      However, I do agree that the false claims of awards used in an effort to benefit monetarily should be treated just as if an unlicensed individual falsely claimed themselves to be a licensed contractor and then jacked up your home while 'fixing' it.

      It's fraud. Pure and simple.

      If someone wants to claim they won 3 MOH , 17 purple hearts, 4 bronze stars, and the legendary blue falcon award - more power to them. Freedom of Speech is not limited to honest speech, or even intelligent speech. I don't want to start down that slippery slope.

      However, real veterans will just shake their heads and laugh and call them out on it.

      They'll be outted as a liar publically, and personally - that's worse than the class D felony sentence of 1 year in jail.

      • 3 votes
      #1.3 - Wed Feb 22, 2012 3:25 PM EST
      btco

      I listened to a story about this decision on NPR today. I think both sides have legitimate arguments and am interested to see how this gets decided.

        #1.4 - Wed Feb 22, 2012 3:43 PM EST
        don-72

        Student of Life

        As a retired Army Sgt. I agree with you. If we put every one in jail who stretched the truth we would have to lock of most people I know. I just look at them and shake my head. And think do they really think I believe them. They are only hurting themselves when the truth comes out.

        • 1 vote
        #1.5 - Wed Feb 22, 2012 4:35 PM EST
        petridishofideas

        lying about little things are one thing....saying YOU served and had military decorations is a far different thing. I served, abet during peacetime, I don't "claim" to have served in war and would gladly kick some ass who said he did and didn't. It is an honor thing those who never served seem not to understand!

          #1.6 - Wed Feb 22, 2012 4:51 PM EST
          JmetheSad

          As I read it, the Stolen Valor Act isn't simply about lying about military service and/or medals received, but rather for defrauding others with a lie specific to military service and/or awards.

          9 ‘‘(a) OFFENSE.—Whoever, with intent to obtain any-

          10 thing of value, knowingly makes a misrepresentation re-

          11 garding his or her military service, shall—

          12 ‘‘(1) if the misrepresentation is that such indi-

          13 vidual served in a combat zone, served in a special

          14 operations force, or was awarded the Congressional

          15 Medal of Honor, be fined under this title, impris-

          16 oned not more than 1 year, or both; and

          17 ‘‘(2) in any other case, be fined under this title,

          18 imprisoned not more than 6 months, or both.

          I don't understand why we want to make it okay for people to lie about something that is earned through risk of life for profit, power, and/or influence. Fraud is fraud and those that do it on the backs of those that have gone above and beyond is despicable.

          Although, I'm not partial to them serving time on the taxpayer's dime - it should be 8544 hours (or 4272 hours for "any other case") of community service instead or fined the cost of their time spent in prison, if prison time is sentenced.

          • 1 vote
          #1.7 - Wed Feb 22, 2012 5:36 PM EST
          petridishofideas

          There was a guy downhere who lied about being a New York Police Officer during 9/11 and getting all the accolades and respect due those who were. FRAUD pure and simple. There should be a penalty!

            #1.8 - Thu Feb 23, 2012 8:23 AM EST
            Reply
            TheyreAllCrooks

            I can think of a number of current politicians who've lied about and embellished their military service...maybe we should have a law against that too.

            Case in point Senator Mark Kirk of Illinois.

            • 1 vote
            Reply#2 - Wed Feb 22, 2012 4:27 PM EST
            fernando-2143457

            Politicians don't have to play by the same rules as everyone else. They make sure of it.

            • 1 vote
            #2.1 - Wed Feb 22, 2012 4:30 PM EST
            Reply
            Belinda_Joy

            How is this even a debate? Of course it should be against the law to lie about having received military honors. Come on, this is a no brainer!

            • 2 votes
            Reply#3 - Wed Feb 22, 2012 4:30 PM EST
            TheyreAllCrooks

            Impersonating a police officer is a crime...but I never heard of impersonating General Patton being a crime!

              #3.1 - Wed Feb 22, 2012 4:37 PM EST
              petridishofideas

              Only time impersonating patton shouldn't be a crime is for halloween and constume parties....LOL

              • 1 vote
              #3.2 - Wed Feb 22, 2012 4:56 PM EST
              TheyreAllCrooks

              Yes, well when they throw Republican Senator Mark Kirk out of Congress - I'll take this whole idea seriously. He was elected in large part on his falsely trumped up bogus embellished military record - complete with a 100% "made up and fictional award"..."Intelligence Officer of the Year" Award!

              There is NO such award, but yet he said he was awarded it!

              • 1 vote
              #3.3 - Wed Feb 22, 2012 5:18 PM EST
              petridishofideas

              intellegence in the gNOp.....Hahahahaha! Laughing my Fing ass off!

              • 1 vote
              #3.4 - Wed Feb 22, 2012 5:22 PM EST
              Reply
              SeattleBobb

              The fact that we need our courts to rule on something like this speaks volumes about how pathetic a portion of our society has become.

              Who the hell would lie about receiving military honors? And, yes, those people should be held accountable somehow for lying if its done in a manner to reap rewards, discounts, benefits, etc....

              • 3 votes
              Reply#4 - Wed Feb 22, 2012 4:37 PM EST
              TheyreAllCrooks

              Who the hell would lie about receiving military honors?

              Senator Mark Kirk of Illinois would and DID! Kirk claimed to have won the "Military Intelligence Officer of The Year" Award. There is no such award - but he claimed he won it and he's serving in Congress right now. He's apparently been telling this bold faced lie for several years!

              He is my Senator and a complete scumdooshbag, and though he is currently ill, I still hope that he is voted out of the office he never should have held. Any man that would stoop as low as he did doesn't deserve anyone's trust...but the tea party loves him! Go figure!



              http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20006430-503544.html

              • 1 vote
              Reply#5 - Wed Feb 22, 2012 4:46 PM EST
              SeattleBobb

              I agree he is a douche bag for lying, but get real TheyreAllCrooks. The entire goal of your post, like every single one of your typical posts is to take a jab at the party you don't agree with. Anytime you can stick some reference to the tea party or GOP you do it. It's pathetic. This issue has nothing to do with political parties.

                #5.1 - Thu Feb 23, 2012 2:14 PM EST
                Reply
                Chirmly

                This is truly a slippery slope issue. If they argue the "this particular issue is narrow but is being considered because the ramifications of the lie are so important and such an affront to decency" then they have to allow that ruling to apply to such things as police/detectives lying to suspects, sting operations, and political ads.

                I don't think they are willing to go down that rabbit-hole.

                  Reply#6 - Wed Feb 22, 2012 5:33 PM EST
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