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FACT CHECK: Errant claims on auto bailout, taxes

Wed Feb 22, 2012 9:34 PM EST
politics, us, debate, check, fact, gop-debate, twenty-republican
Calvin Woodward , Associated Press

Republican presidential candidates, from left, Rep. Ron Paul, R-Texas, former Pennsylvania Sen. Rick Santorum, former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney and former House Speaker Newt Gingrich share the stage during a Republican presidential debate Wednesday, Feb. 22, 2012, in Mesa, Ariz. (AP Photo/Jae C. Hong)

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WASHINGTON — Twenty Republican presidential debates later, the head-scratching claims kept coming.

Did Mitt Romney really cut taxes as Massachusetts governor, as he asserted yet again? Or did he raise them by hundreds of millions of dollars, as former Pennsylvania Sen. Rick Santorum alleged? And how could Newt Gingrich have given the nation four balanced budgets when he was only in Congress for two of them?

There was something old, something new in the misstatements of the candidates Wednesday in what was possibly the last GOP debate.

A look at some of the claims and how they compare with the facts:

___

ROMNEY to Santorum: "You voted to raise the debt ceiling five times without compensating cuts in spending."

THE FACTS: Maybe so, but increases in the debt ceiling were not politically charged in the past as they are now. They just allow the government to pay bills run up by previous Congresses. To not pay them would be like deciding to stop paying a car loan or mortgage. In fact, President Ronald Reagan, an icon to most conservatives, supported increases in the debt limit 12 times over his two terms. The idea of insisting on offsetting spending cuts when raising the debt ceiling is relatively new.

___

ROMNEY: "They finally realized I was right." — On the government ushering the auto industry into and out of bankruptcy.

THE FACTS: Romney did propose a bankruptcy process for the automakers before the government opted for that course. But there was a tremendous difference between the course he advocated and the one that was taken. GM and Chrysler went into bankruptcy on the strength of a massive bailout that Romney opposed. Neither Republican President George W. Bush nor Democratic President Barack Obama believed the automakers would have survived without that backup from taxpayers. Romney held out the possibility at the time of the government giving certain loan and warranty guarantees that would not have approached the nearly $85 billion bailout.

___

SANTORUM: "Gov. Romney even today suggested raising taxes on the top 1 percent."

THE FACTS: Romney's new proposal actually would lower tax rates across the board. The rate for the wealthiest Americans would drop to 28 percent from 35 percent. However, Romney's call for unspecified new limits on tax deductions for higher-income taxpayers makes it impossible, absent more details, to assess the impact on any individual.

___

NEWT GINGRICH: "When I was speaker ... we balanced the budget for four consecutive years."

THE FACTS: Gingrich has made this misstatement many times before. He was speaker from January 1995 to January 1999. During budget years 1996 and 1997, when Gingrich was House speaker, the government ran deficits totaling nearly $130 billion. In budget year 1998, which ended Sept. 30, 1998, there was a surplus of $69 billion. And in budget year 1999, during which Gingrich was speaker part of the time, there was a surplus of $126 billion. Thus, Gingrich can only claim credit for contributing to two years of a balanced budget, at most.

___

SANTORUM: "Gov. Romney raised $700 million in taxes and fees in Massachusetts."

ROMNEY: "We cut taxes 19 times."

THE FACTS: Romney largely held the line on tax increases but the record is mixed. Massachusetts raised business taxes by $140 million with measures mostly recommended by Romney. As well, the Republican governor and Democratic lawmakers raised hundreds of millions of dollars from higher fees and fines, another form of taxation. Romney himself proposed raising nearly $60 million by creating 33 new fees and increasing 57 others. Anti-tax advocates praised his support for income tax cuts while objecting to his course on business taxes and fees.

___

SANTORUM, on Syrian President Bashar Assad: "If (Syria) would have been any other country, given what was going on and the mass murders that we're seeing there, this president would have quickly joined the international community, which is calling for his ouster and the stop of this. But he's not. He's not, because he's afraid to stand up to Iran."

THE FACTS: Obama, in a statement Aug. 18, 2011, said, "For the sake of the Syrian people, the time has come for President Assad to step aside." Since then, Obama and officials throughout his administration have repeated dozens of times their call for Assad to leave power immediately. The U.S. also led efforts at the United Nations to win support for a resolution demanding Assad's resignation. It was vetoed by China and Russia, but the Obama administration is now working with European and Arab partners to use diplomatic and economic pressure to force Assad out of power.

___

ROMNEY: "I'm going to link the pay of government workers with the pay in the private sector. Government servants shouldn't get more than the people who are paying taxes."

THE FACTS: It's something of a myth that federal workers make out like gangbusters next to their private sector counterparts.

The latest Congressional Budget Office study found federal pay is, on average, only 2 percent higher than for comparable private sector workers. The discrepancy is larger among the least educated. Federal employees with just a high school diploma make 21 percent more than similar private workers. But federal workers tend to be more educated, older and concentrated in professional occupations — and they make 23 percent less, on average, than private sector counterparts.

That advantage holds true when benefits are added to the mix: The federal professionals still lag, while federal employees with less education have a greater advantage over private sector workers.

___

GINGRICH: "If we're going to have a debate about who the extremist is on these issues, it is President Obama, who as a state senator voted to protect doctors who killed babies who survived the abortion."

THE FACTS: As an Illinois state senator, Obama voted against legislation promoted by anti-abortion activists that would have conferred protection to fetuses showing any signs of life after an abortion, even if doctors did not believe the fetus was viable. Obama pointed to an existing Illinois law requiring doctors to protect fetuses they believed were likely to survive after an abortion, and said he was concerned the proposed new law was so broad it could interfere with routine abortions. Obama said he would have supported federal legislation President George W. Bush signed in 2002 that would protect a viable fetus but reaffirmed a woman's right to an abortion.

___

GINGRICH: "It is utterly stupid to say that the United States government can't control the border. It is a failure of will. It's a failure of enforcement."

THE FACTS: A failure of will or enforcement is difficult to see in the statistics. Starting under the Bush administration, the ranks of the Border Patrol have risen to more than 21,400 agents, a force augmented by National Guard troops, unmanned aerial vehicles and fencing. A record 396,609 illegal immigrants were deported last year.

In the budget year that ended in September, border agents arrested the fewest illegal border crossers — 327,577 — in nearly four decades. That's considered a sign that fewer people are trying to cross, whether because doing so is riskier or because economic opportunity in the U.S. is less than before.

The debate presses on about whether the border is becoming secure enough, but there has been a measure of success and substantial effort.

___

Associated Press writers Alicia A. Caldwell, Beth Fouhy and Bradley Klapper contributed to this report.

© 2012 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.
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  • Public Discussion (57)
Jump to discussion page: 1 2
TomALT

False claims are a staple of the Republicans. The whole choreographed reason for churning through candidates during the primaries is to avoid taking a stand on anything. Step #2 is to throw enough crap on the wall to see what sticks and see what people point at. Step #3 is to cobble together a platform from the results and try to wangle your way back in so you can then do the bidding of your corporate masters. Doubt it? Just look what happened to us in Arizona (A classic lesson in Buyers remorse). www.recallbrewer.com

  • 14 votes
Reply#1 - Wed Feb 22, 2012 10:49 PM EST
MartyMoose

It's baffling and incredibly bold. I heard some of this on the radio tonight and I figure they have just decided to say "screw it" and the facts be damned. The strategy literally seems to be: make any accusation; make any claim. It doesn't matter if it's true or not. The voters will hear the thing you said and it will be in their brains. Fact-checking is for losers.

It's kind of like the prosecutor who asks "when did you stop beating your wife?" It doesn't matter that you never did. They jury hears "he beats his wife."

  • 6 votes
#1.1 - Wed Feb 22, 2012 11:06 PM EST
mountainmike-1199289

They need consequences, such as the one that lies gets the trap door opened beneath him, plunging him into a tank of water.

Hey! That would be a great idea for a fund raiser for the Democrats who have to match the mega bucks from the Koch brothers and Super Republi-PACs.

  • 13 votes
#1.2 - Wed Feb 22, 2012 11:07 PM EST
DEATHNELL J.

"Misstatements"? How about OUT RIGHT "LIES"!

  • 4 votes
#1.3 - Thu Feb 23, 2012 2:20 AM EST
Rorschach-558483

I'd love to see some of the stalwart righties here on the 'Vine defend this round of lies, point by point.

It's all fact-checked, Repubbie 'Viners! What's your defense?

  • 1 vote
#1.4 - Thu Feb 23, 2012 8:08 AM EST
fernando-2143457

Very simple fix, lie detectors for everyone during the debates. Hook them all up and see what happens. It would definitely make it more interesting.

  • 2 votes
#1.5 - Thu Feb 23, 2012 9:55 AM EST
DEATHNELL J.

fernando, would be interesting if a little electric JOLT was added to the lie detector every time these presidential wannabe's gave a false answer...:)

  • 1 vote
#1.6 - Thu Feb 23, 2012 9:41 PM EST
Reply
Marshall James

there was only three people at this debate?????

really???? isnt someone missing here??? or is it he is just right over and over again???

if they just performed a typo and he is the first one...he is still right....and his new ad makes that claim.

but it is funny that of course ...if an error is going to be made by the MSM..it will be made inregards to Ron Paul.

pathetic and obvious.

  • 3 votes
Reply#2 - Wed Feb 22, 2012 10:49 PM EST
RobPlumley

I believe the article was referring to claims made, and as such, Ron Paul was not mentioned. Though I guess you could say that he was opposed to it, but that is his opinion which is not what the article was about - it was about false claims.

Everyone knows that Ron Paul is running.

The article was about false claims. In fact, Ron Paul has mentioned that even though the bailout was successful, he would still be opposed to it. This was not a statement made based on false claims but an opinion by Ron Paul.

Again, the article was about false claims.

I understand that those liking Ron Paul are frustrated about the lack of coverage regarding Ron Paul, but it could be an indication that there is nothing to report on that most already know about the candidate.

Perhaps, the non-coverage of Ron Paul is only a reflection that there is not much to say about the candidate. I don't know - I wouldn't vote him anyway. His positions are a bit out-dated. Maybe they would be on target if it was the 18th or 19th century, but it is the 21st century and things are different.

  • 6 votes
#2.1 - Wed Feb 22, 2012 11:05 PM EST
MartyMoose

If there's an honest man up there, it's Ron Paul. He's crazy, but at least he knows what he really believes. None of these losers can actually run on their record except him.

  • 5 votes
#2.2 - Wed Feb 22, 2012 11:08 PM EST
RobPlumley

You are correct. So, if I was having to vote for anyone one of these guys, my choices are:

  1. Mitt, whom I don't really know if he is real or not.
  2. Newt, whom unlike Clinton, inhaled.
  3. Santorum, whom I think he is running for Pope or some Cardinal position in the Catholic Church
  4. Paul, whom is crazy and he really, really believes so.
  • 4 votes
#2.3 - Wed Feb 22, 2012 11:23 PM EST
gatoralum

Of course there were four people there. Three of whom had a chance to actually win the nomination and the election and one who has no chance whatsoever of being either nominated or elected; who is the darling of the uninformed, the delusional, the followers of a failed screenwriter turned lousy novelist and those who think that because they support the one very few others do must mean they are smarter than everyone else.

  • 2 votes
#2.4 - Wed Feb 22, 2012 11:24 PM EST
RebootIt

Ron Paul is not crazy. He just does not pander to fear mongers. I'm a liberal atheist but I support Paul even though he believes in god. Why? Because he does not believe it's ok to shove it down my throat.

  • 4 votes
#2.5 - Thu Feb 23, 2012 12:15 AM EST
abolish taxes

lol no, he thinks it's ok as long as it is the State doing it.

  • 5 votes
#2.6 - Thu Feb 23, 2012 1:26 AM EST
fernando-2143457

I love the way Ron Paul called out national news agencies for not giving him any attention at the end of the debate. Ron Paul, you are my favorite crazy old man.

    #2.7 - Thu Feb 23, 2012 9:58 AM EST
    Reply
    Michael Sautter

    Never let facts get in the way of a good story - especially in politics. Truthiness is much more important.

    • 4 votes
    Reply#3 - Wed Feb 22, 2012 10:59 PM EST
    MrIndia

    Questions - What do you call four old white men trying to one up each other in lies, ignorance, intolerance and deceit.......

    Answer - The republican presidential debate....

    • 8 votes
    Reply#4 - Wed Feb 22, 2012 11:02 PM EST
    Bluebird Sister

    OMG-WTF, how did we get here? 4 grown men who act like children, using lies and fear.

    We sure as hell do not want Rick's little finger on the trigger. He wants to shrink our government, but make our military bigger.

    Our rights should come from God, you know, and not the constitution, the federal government shouldn't protect us, or our country from pollution.

    He wants women in their place, submissive to our men, with Catholic law, he'll cure us all from all our evil sin.

    Then there's Newt, the happy guy, he'll insult you with a grin. His great ideas seem mostly odd, his support is growing thin.

    If Newt's a genius, and that's a big "if", then I can only laugh, cause Newt, I try to use all my brain and you use only half.

    Now Mitt, he rich, and stutters a lot and sweats his nervous replies, he's working for the 1% and the many votes he buys.

    Mitt was leading this rabid pack, he used to be on top, until he turned into a pancake and did the old flip-flop.

    And now we come to Dr. Paul, such a harmless sweet old man. He thinks he's leading a revolution, but I don't think he can.

    He favors business over civil rights but speaks of civil liberties. He'll legalize drugs, which is good I think, but has problems with racist policies.

    So OMG-WTF how did these 4 get here? The republican party has no new ideas and has to rely on fear.

    Rick says it will be painful, if he wins the rat race, I feel the punishment already, Rick, here's my hand in your face!

    Newt's lost all credibility. He should really go to the moon, his blathering doesn't make any sense. He's as crazy as a loon.

    Mitt's not too exciting, but at least a little sane, the right thinks he isn't' authentic, then there's the Mormon thing and Bain.

    Ron Paul will get rid of most government, so there wouldn't be anything left. If he steals away all of our programs, he will be part of the theft.

    So we, the American people, must make sure we get out and vote! Or we'll get stuck with one of, the following;

    A pope, a dope, a robot or and old goat!

    • 9 votes
    Reply#5 - Wed Feb 22, 2012 11:04 PM EST
    RobPlumley

    I thought there was just the three stooges?

    • 5 votes
    #5.1 - Wed Feb 22, 2012 11:07 PM EST
    bphilly76

    today was the 4 Musketeers on Display

    • 1 vote
    #5.2 - Thu Feb 23, 2012 2:39 AM EST
    WmRAllen

    Nah. The Musketeers had panache. These four? Not so much.

    • 1 vote
    #5.3 - Thu Feb 23, 2012 7:22 AM EST
    Reply
    Monkey99

    So......What else is new?

    ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

    • 5 votes
    Reply#6 - Wed Feb 22, 2012 11:05 PM EST
    RobPlumley

    Awesome response. I feel like I should report to the scene of the crime, "Keep moving, nothing to see here..."

    • 5 votes
    #6.1 - Wed Feb 22, 2012 11:08 PM EST
    Reply
    greg81082-4115372

    It's so cute when they get together like this for discussions about which one is wrong.

    Don't they already know it's Obama's fault. The presidential debates can't come soon enough for me.

    • 2 votes
    Reply#7 - Wed Feb 22, 2012 11:08 PM EST
    digcreation

    why is there no accountability for the things politicians say or do?

    • 4 votes
    Reply#8 - Wed Feb 22, 2012 11:14 PM EST
    The Grim CreeperExpand Comment Comment collapsed by the community

    why is there no accountability for the things politicians say or do?

    Perhaps you might ask our liar-in-chief why this is so.

    • 3 votes
    #8.1 - Wed Feb 22, 2012 11:15 PM EST
    digcreation

    yeah, b/c this all started in 2008. brilliant

    • 3 votes
    #8.2 - Wed Feb 22, 2012 11:16 PM EST
    Don Overton

    Perhaps you might ask our liar-in-chief why this is so.

    Would do that Grimm if we could get Santorum, Romney and Newt to shut the @!$%# up.

    • 6 votes
    #8.3 - Thu Feb 23, 2012 12:13 AM EST
    Reply
    The Grim Creeper

    If the lamestream media devoted as much time to fact checking Dear Leader Obama as they do giving the Republicans an anal exam, their ratings might improve exponentially. Let's do some investigative reporting on the sheer "coincidence" of Obama fundraisers getting most of the no-risk phony green energy loans.

    • 3 votes
    Reply#9 - Wed Feb 22, 2012 11:14 PM EST
    gatoralum

    If there has been no reporting on this, how do you know it is true?

    • 7 votes
    #9.1 - Wed Feb 22, 2012 11:26 PM EST
    Silvaria

    Wow, TGC...for someone on the side of those who complain every time a liberal brings Bush into a conversation about Obama, some of you sure have no qualms whatsoever about dragging Obama into a conversation about Republicans, lol...

    No wonder you guys are losing so badly, you don't know the meaning of, "lead by example".

    But feel free to carry on your transparent attempt at deflection, it's entertaining. 8)

    • 7 votes
    #9.2 - Wed Feb 22, 2012 11:54 PM EST
    Reply
    Philip Grant

    Did the President really sign off on infanticide? My head fell off when Newt said that one.

    • 7 votes
    Reply#10 - Wed Feb 22, 2012 11:16 PM EST
    MrIndia

    Twisting your opponents words is a time honored political strategy.

    But what these mother@!$%#ers are doing - outright lies and distortion - is something amazing to behold in a country with a supposedly free press.

    Why is the press not ripping them apart on their lies ?

    • 3 votes
    #10.1 - Thu Feb 23, 2012 6:25 AM EST
    Reply
    rational thought-3748544

    The Democrats couldn't have written a better script for this debate that would insure more of a win for President Obama in November. Whenever Romney, Santorum and Gingrich open their mouths they reinforce why most of us already know that their presidencies would be a disaster for the country.

    • 6 votes
    Reply#11 - Wed Feb 22, 2012 11:18 PM EST
    steven-791492

    Did anyone expect the clowns on the right to find the truth?

    Big lies are the only thing that works for them.

    • 8 votes
    Reply#12 - Wed Feb 22, 2012 11:18 PM EST
    WmRAllen

    "Clowns" is an apt term-- since the whole thing seems to be an exercise in "but will it play in Peoria?"...

    • 3 votes
    #12.1 - Thu Feb 23, 2012 12:10 AM EST
    Reply
    rational thought-3748544

    I'm confused. Was this a Republican debate of prospective presidential candidates or a tent revival?

    • 7 votes
    Reply#13 - Wed Feb 22, 2012 11:23 PM EST
    rational thought-3748544

    :o)

    • 2 votes
    Reply#14 - Wed Feb 22, 2012 11:24 PM EST
    RobPlumley

    These guys are smart to know that their comments are recorded, and the media has a really bad habit of reporting the news.

    Democrat Slogan 2012: We're not perfect, but they're nuts!

    • 8 votes
    Reply#15 - Wed Feb 22, 2012 11:25 PM EST
    Bill K. NYExpand Comment Comment collapsed by the community

    False claims are the staple of Obama and the dims. The Republicans have to practice so as to be ready for the lies told by Obama and the dims.

      Reply#16 - Wed Feb 22, 2012 11:27 PM EST
      digcreation

      there have been several articles published listing the falsehoods of the repub politicians. I dont seem to recall there being any about the dems. hmmm. perhaps not enough stock.

      • 7 votes
      #16.1 - Wed Feb 22, 2012 11:30 PM EST
      CountrySimple

      Child Sex is the staple of Santorum and the Pubbies.

      what's your point?

      • 3 votes
      #16.2 - Thu Feb 23, 2012 12:37 AM EST
      Reply
      wjm5-0

      Where's my bar of soap?

      These lying candidates need a good sudsing in the mouth. Catch 'em for me and hold 'em down!!!

      First, let me get a rabies shot. I know maddogs do bite.

      • 7 votes
      Reply#17 - Wed Feb 22, 2012 11:42 PM EST
      Bluebird Sister

      Good idea, wjm5-0, The mouths of duds, full of suds! I felt like a good old brain rinsing for myself! Listening to this nonsense makes my brain feel dirty.

      • 4 votes
      #17.1 - Wed Feb 22, 2012 11:56 PM EST
      Reply
      Jackie-355788

      what kills me is Romney in jeans. He walks like he just crapped his pants. I guess the " magic underwear" don't fit well under the Leevi's.

      • 6 votes
      Reply#18 - Wed Feb 22, 2012 11:49 PM EST
      AmericanMOM-598098

      Romney, Santorum, and Gingrich continuously go on about President Obama's policies being damaging to the country, but they always fall short of explaining "why" and a demonstration of a "when", "how", or a "where". They can't even be honest about their own records. I would have a lot more respect and confidence of someone's ability if they admit when they made mistakes, explain how they could have been and will be more effective. Their exaggerations, their deceitful statements, and their disregard for facts should have people shunning them instead of forming superpacs in support of them. This country has gotten so messed up that politicians can tell boldface lies and still get votes. It makes me have to ask: WTF?

      • 5 votes
      Reply#19 - Thu Feb 23, 2012 12:14 AM EST
      greg81082-4115372

      Since these clowns have proven they have nothing, It will be all about a culture war. They hope the American voter is stoopid.

      • 5 votes
      Reply#20 - Thu Feb 23, 2012 12:39 AM EST
      WmRAllen

      “No one in this world, so far as I know — and I have searched the records for years, and employed agents to help me — has ever lost money by underestimating the intelligence of the great masses of the plain people. Nor has anyone ever lost public office thereby.” --H. L. Menken

      • 1 vote
      #20.1 - Thu Feb 23, 2012 7:30 AM EST
      Reply
      CountrySimple

      Of course the pedophile worshipping Republicans are going to lie.

      Nobody who would vote for them would ever fact check anything. they are telling all of the other pedophile worshipping republicans exactly what they want to hear.

      • 3 votes
      Reply#21 - Thu Feb 23, 2012 12:39 AM EST
      TooManyPuppies

      since now my phone is fairly good at finding facts with natural language, it seems to me like a debate displaying network, could hook up a system that automatically searched wikipedia and google government and other sources and displayed the results in real time along the side or bottom of the screen(you could delay the broadcast a minute so the search and comment match up), so that people watching can get a sort of truth o meter.

      • 3 votes
      Reply#22 - Thu Feb 23, 2012 12:47 AM EST
      Bluebird Sister

      No one should be listening to any Catholic or Bishop until they prosecute the child molesters they

      protect from the law. This abuse by the Catholic church is less condemned than Obama. These

      people exhibit erratic behavior and are a menace to society! Rick Santorum should not be

      questioning Obama's religion, when the people who run his church are pedophiles.

      • 6 votes
      Reply#23 - Thu Feb 23, 2012 1:02 AM EST
      Bourgeois Hillbilly

      And this is a surprise to anyone?

      • 2 votes
      Reply#24 - Thu Feb 23, 2012 2:35 AM EST
      Really?-2872425

      And one of these folks is going to end up being the candidate to run against President Obama? Convincing us they could do a better job straightening out the massive problems we are faced with as a nation.LOL

      • 1 vote
      Reply#25 - Thu Feb 23, 2012 3:13 AM EST
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