Agree or Disagree: I could vote for a president whose views on abortion differ from mine

Exactly Keith. It is murder! What about the baby's rights? They argue the baby is not life until born...yet a few cells on Mars and what have we found? Life! They argue the definition of life is that the being must be self-sustaining. I say if that is the case, the woman should be able to choose until the child is about 3-4 years old. Can a 3-month-old baby sustain itself without any help? The fact: life begins at conception. The arguments for abortion are pathetic and the murder committed is far greater than any war. What a tragedy...please Lord let us turn this ship around and reverse Roe v Wade.

As a mother of 2 children under the age of 5, I won't debate whether a infant can survive once born without help - obviously they cannot. A viable pregnancy - one where the baby can breathe on it's own or with medical intervention - is what this particular issue is about. Most baby's born before the 27th week gestation will not live no mater what the medical intervention. The lungs just aren't developed enough to make it. Some born at as little as 25 weeks might beat the odds, but it's the exception and not the rule. I get that you strongly oppose abortion, but given that the baby would be completely unable to survive until after at least 5 1/2 months, your above argument falls flat. Abortion is bigger than teenagers and one person's beliefs. What about the people like me who had children later in life, or those who find out their baby will be born with devastating malformations. How is the government - or those with religious beliefs - the most qualified person to tell a woman what to do about her child. Shouldn't that be up to the parents and the doctors to decide? If not, why do we have prenatal testing and give birth in hospitals. If it's to become a situation of you get what God gave you, than what would be the need? Are we really ready as a society to say goodbye to science and free will? I certainly hope not. I also don't want to see the United States turn into China with one child per family, but we could be headed there as well. Populations grow regardless of if we want them to or not.

Then every American soldier who has ever killed in the name of this country is a murderer.

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I am somewhat dismayed that most of the comments come from men who don't carry or most times care for the babies when born but is it murder to have a child aborted that was conceived via rape?? At age 17 I was raped and impregnated, I will take your label as a "murderer" as opposed to an "undereducated, barely surviving teenage single mother". Of course the next argument is "give the baby up for adoption", well what happens when that child looks for me one day and I have to say that your conception disgusted me and I never wanted to see you. Maybe we should leave individual choice as it is and individual choice. We spend too much time worrying about what others should do with their lives and not focusing enough on our own and helping to make this a better country as a whole.

Oh please, it always makes me laugh when men get passionate about this discussion, especially given the fact that, for every single father, there are 5 single mothers in the United States. You see guys, quite a few men tend to just leave the kids and the little woman to struggle and survive on their own! But at the same time, that same brilliant Father of the Year will bellow at the top his lungs how adamantly opposed he is to a woman's right to choose whether or not to accept THIS LIFELONG COMMITMENT. This is an untouchable topic for politicans, regardless of what you may think or what they may say, so please don't show your utter lack of common sense by actually voting for a Presidential nominee based on your opinion of this issue. Sheesh.

You go! When you see groups of anti-abortion protestors, most are men.

I'm not sure "men" is an appelation I'd choose to apply to people who have no concept of what treating abortion as murder would do to the rights of women, whether they are biologically male or not.

Whatever you self righteous prig.....you have NO say what I do with my body and if you tried to tell me what to do with my body, you would be the one getting murdered! There are too damn many people on this planet anyway.....so keep you holier than thou opinions to yourself!

Then I suggest you keep your pants zipped so any woman you know isn't put in a position to be called a murderer. Responsibility goes two ways!!! Most of you men run out on a woman and her child(ren) the minute you feel like being/acting single again and you dare to judge a woman!!

Joel-Buckeye,
You are entitled to your perception, however I see lack of real insight in your statement. First abortion is ending the completion of a cycle. If a space flight is not ready, they abort the mission. If a military strategy is scrubbed before being implemented, it is aborted. So the word is not associated with murder, except in your mind. If a pregnancy is not healthy or planned and the cycle is interrupted, than we say the pregnancy was aborted, same rational. The ending of the pregnancy is than associated with not allowing the unborn fetus the chance to live, which by your definition is murder, however the actual life of that fetus is in the hands of the parents, most heavily on the woman carrying it. There are so many factors to be considered, before bringing another being into this world. There are too many children that were planned and wanted births that are left on the streets to grow-up with gangs and prostitution and crime that the unwanted births are a real scary fact. Adoption is not the option that everyone thinks, it is as ignorant as Mr. Scrooge's statement of, "are there no workhouses are there no prisons?" To expect society to take care of these unwanted births is not responsible. Adoptions in the U.S. are too expensive, time consuming and way too much paperwork, which is why most adoptions are from other countries! That leaves our children living in foster care, prison, half-way houses and death row! Yeah, that is better than interrupting the cycle in the beginning and allowing that soul to choose another body to be born into. I support choices, but believe prevention with education is the best route!!! Lost to most is the facts that places like Planned Parenthood, do much more education and counselling than just walk in, sign here and end the pregnancy. Perhaps, if more counselors would work with these ladies they would have more options "on the table" than just ending their pregnancy. Perhaps, if more pro-lifers would 'step-up to the plate' and offer encouragement and maybe even some financial options to these ladies, the results would be different. I can assure you that protesting, marching and calling these ladies, "murderers" is negative and not accomplishing any positive results. Consider that, next time you pick up a sign and show dead babies to my children, as we drive by! Talk about not having a conscious!

I am a moderate on this issue. It is a little strange that so many men are involved in this debate. I mean who wants to kill babies so the whole debate is kind of ridiculous. What we need is to spend more time keeping young people from getting preggers and not having unwanted pregnancies. I would have a lot more respect for pro-lifers if they focused on that as opposed to calling people murderers.

I mean let's face it there is no reason for someone to have an unwanted pregnancy or to use abortion as a means of birth control.

I consider myself pro-life too but I would never affiliate myslef with a pro-life org. because it mostly seems like crazies are involved in the movement. I know that's a huge generalization so sorry in advance. So people who would like to get involved that are moderate would not dream of it.

Even if RoevWade is overturned it doesn't matter. For instance, the last slavery issues were taken out of the constitution in the 1950's. It's a constitutional right and amendments, removal to the constitution takes years. So that's what we are doing now, fighting over definitions of what is life. When is life? What circumstances? Instead of the core issue of why the hell do we have so many unplanned unwanted pregnancies.

My mom had to have an abortion when I was 15 and she was devastated, but the pregnancy could have killed her and the amnio results told her the baby had all of his organs on the outside-zero chance of survival...it was a horrible experience. I would not have wanted to risk that pregnancy with my mother's life. Nor is it fair to force a woman who was raped to have her rapists baby.

Well I have a suggestion, Edward. Why don't we tell the next woman who requests an abortion that she can't have one because you said so. Adoption is a scary prospect, because with our concern for human life, what if the baby goes to serial killer or someone who may abuse it or sell it into human slavery? We wouldn't want to have yet another neglected abused future criminal on our hands, would we? I have an idea: how about we just give the child to you to raise? It's a huge responsibility Edward, and it costs a ton of money to raise a child, not to mention all that time and effort and caring, but I'm sure you won't mind standing behind your opinion.

Yes and I bet you were eagerly watching the shock and aew as we killed all those innocent children in Irag. Your disgusting.

It was a shame that I was raped at 17 and became pregnant. Was it a shame for me to have an abortion and go on to college so that I may live as I wish and not have the stigma of being a single teenage mother??

Yes it was a shame...you killed a child that was half your flesh and blood. What right did you have to decide he/she should die? Granted you were raped, but that is not the child's fault. If you didn't want to raise him/her give it up for adoption. That child could have grown up to be a wonderful person, but you will never know will you???

On the other hand, that child could grow up to be a rapist just like his daddy. And KJ, I make the same offer to you as I did to Edward and will to all you big talkers who want to preach right and wrong to others - but most especially when it requires nothing more from you than preaching.

I understand your convictions and support of the Prolife movement, but I always find it hard to believe that people think its that easy. "Oh just give it up for adoption", how is that an easy decision? The girl was raped. She didnt consent to the sex act, yet she becomes fully responsible for the result, which ever decision she makes. If she keeps the baby shes got the stigma of being a teen mom - who often are seen as sluts that cant keep their legs shut, a murderer if she aborts, or an irrisponsible, uncaring woman for giving up her own child. A woman cant win. Each have their own implications. You cant complain about welfare moms and teenage pregnancy if you arent going to allow the women to make their own choice. ARe you going to be the one who adopts all these children that come from pregnancies such as these? Calling a young girl who has yet to experience life a murderer is whats wrong. CJ - my heart goes out to you dont let comments like this get to you. Make your peace with God and forgive yourself. People like this claim to be faithful but really havent a clue. NOw KJ from MN - Let God in your heart. "Dont judge lest thou be judged.." "those without sin cast the first stone..." Abortion is a horrible thing, but I stand proudly and pray for those girls such as CJ that have to bear the weight of that decision as well as the weight of those who tell them that they are murderers. Stop punishing the women and girls and start yelling at the men that put them in such a terrible situation.
May God be with you.

Here here, Terri, for being a voice of reason.

Yes, CJ-421136, It was wrong for you to murder the child conceived out of a violent rape for the same reason it wrong to punish unrelated people for crimes done by others.

Killing the innocent for the crimes of others is barbarous and primitive.

From a scientific and logic perspective it is highly doubtful that you conceived from rape. Did you report the rape to the authorities was anyone charged or was it a "rape" of incapacitation or drunken inclination that you later regretted?

Dear God, I mean, Rufus,
So glad you cleared things up for CJ, now can you please solve our ficitious global warming problem? From a "scientific and logic perspective" it is highly possible that she conceived from rape, just as she might have from any other sexual encounter.
From a moral and ethical perspective, you should be ashamed of yourself for that last line you wrote. I don't even know you and I'm ashamed of you.

Thank everyone for there perspective but to clear things up I was a virgin when I was raped at 17, had never had an alcoholic drink in my life and was already accepted at five major universities. The man that raped me was charged, found guilty and served 10 years for his 5th rape. I thank God that I survived and thrived after this incident and went on to have three children with my husband of 16 years. So, yes Rufus your "scientific and logical perspective" is right on target as I'm sure it always is. I hope and pray that you don't ever find a woman in your life faced with such a decision but of course she can give the baby to you because you would never stand for such primitive behavior. I have made peace with God and myself for making a decision that was best for my life and I have absolutely NO REGRETS at all.

Abortion is not an easy choice, nor is it without consequence. The choice made is a life-long choice, period! To keep the baby or not, you will live with that choice and the dreams for the balance of your life. I am for education and alternatives and most importantly, choices. We had a choice whether to declare war on Afghanistan and Iraq or to deal with them diplomatically. I use this as a basis that our government is in no position to decide what fate is to become of ourselves. The scandals, covert operations, lies and manipulations that our government exercises each and every day are proof positive that they have no business telling us whether we should carry out the birth of a child or not! Another lifelong decision, children. It is not just the first 18 years, it is until you die and then you should life insurance to help them after you have passed. It is a commitment that can't be ruled by science or politics or somebody elses interpretation of religion. It is the kind of personal choice that each person has to live with. Edward, you and other pro-life antagonists that would march in front of the medical facilities to express your opinion and tell young women that if they go in, they are murderers, you need to back-off!!! If you had a loved one on a respirator and their health was failing and not likely to improve and they were suffering and you had the Durable Health to "pull the plug", would that be murder? I don't believe it is, but you might. Life is not measured in the breaths we take or the ability to breath, but on the quality. Teenage pregnancy has the real effect of destroying the quality for both the mother and the baby. Welfare, ACCHESS, food-stamps, food boxes and Section 8 housing, is what these young women have to look forward to. I wonder if you are opposed to that? Have you ever gone to a homeless shelter and handed out money and hope to these people? Do you have an extra home that you could give to someone, rent-free to help them? Perhaps you could go to the Womens clinics and offer these women hope and help, instead of adding misery to their situation. Just a thought, since you are a crusader, of sorts, or is it just talk?

Huh? AG, where did you hear this nonsense about the "hook-like instrument"? Because you should know that it is utter and complete nonsense. And yes, if you believe in the bible, then by all means, please follow the word of the bible. If you can find any words in the bible which don't contadict themselves.

"And the LORD our God delivered him before us; and we smote him, and his sons, and all his people. And we took all his cities at that time, and utterly destroyed the men, and the women, and the little ones, of every city, we left none to remain": Deuteronomy 2:33-34

They sure smote a lot of folk, didn't they?

Someone here needs to do some REAL research. Hopefully, there are so very few of you uneducated people out there.

AG - A spoon like instument is used to scrape the uterus. It depends on the abortion. Its a horrible experience eithr way. The one I had used a machine that looked alot like a carpet cleaner that you rent at the groceries (I still cant look at one and its been 15+ years). I was screaming from pain and thanking God that I felt that pain because I know i deserved it. So needless to say I did not notice what else he used. I wish you prolifers could take a minute and understand the other side as we try to understand your beliefs. Prolifers do good work. I worked with NRTL for a website I had to do for a project for college, which I did on my reasons for being prochoice. I learned alot about the prolife movement. But the greatest lesson I learned was to let go of my hate and anger for the prolife movement. I have great respect for the prolife movement. I cant say that the prolife movement has respect for prochoicers. i can bet just reading "terri the prochoicer" ignites instant contempt. I have no ill will for others that believe differently. But I do when they try to say their way is the right way and I have to believe in that way. the Bible (romans) says that we have to stand by our convictions. It also says that if we do in our heart what we know is wrong its a sin. I believe in the prochoice movement for everyone and that its wrong for making a woman have a baby. its is a violation of her rights as a human.

Then you must also be against war or the police killing a suspect.

It would be very difficult to protect a fetus from the moment of conception as 1) pregnancy is rarely detected at the moment of conception, and b) between 60 and 80 percent of fertilized eggs fail to implant or are otherwise lost.

PROF. SANDEL: Thank you. I have two questions about the rate of natural embryo loss in human beings. The first is what percent of fertilized eggs fail to implant or are otherwise lost? And the second question is is it the case that all of these lost embryos contain genetic defects that would have prevented their normal development and birth?

DR. OPITZ: The answer to your first question is that it is enormous. Estimates range all the way from 60 percent to 80 percent of the very earliest stages, cleavage stages, for example, that are lost.
http://www.bioethics.gov/transcripts/jan03/session1.html

There are roughly 11000 births in the US per day. Assuming successful conception and implantation roughly equates to the number born, that means each day a minimum of 6600 fertilized eggs failed to implant or were otherwise lost. It could be as high as 8800. What do we do in these cases? Do we charge the mother with murder? Obviously not... it was a natural event, like a miscarriage. But if we assign full human rights to the fetus, we must investigate all miscarriages as potential manslaughter if not homicide. Did the woman drink too much? Eat the wrong foods? Do anything that would cause her body to be an inhospitable environment for the human life we have decided she was carrying? What if it was too early for her to even know she was pregnant... can we live with the fact that there would be thousands of such events per day that we would have no way to know about much less investigate? And short of relegating a woman to having all of the rights of a broodmare, how does one go about protecting a child in the womb from the person whose womb it is?

What exactly is partial birth abortion? I never understood the terminology. Either a baby is born or it isn't, there is no in between. This is a disgusting term used to push someones agenda.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intact_dilation_and_extraction#.22Partial-birth_abortion.22

It's not a medical term, it's entirely a political invention.

Then based on that you should also believe that guns should be banned and drugs and those who sell it, as well as the alcohol industry. There are more deaths in America from these than abortion. You cant say its wrong to abort because its killing humans and not also ban alcohol, guns and drugs. If I tell you you cant have a gun or you cant drink (whether you do or not is not the point) you would tell me that I have no right to tell you how to live your life. How is this any different. I bet you know many that have had an abortion, you just dont know that they have. And how has this affected your life? My getting an abortion does not affect anyones life but my own. And yet the 1 inch fetus as well. but if I get drunk and drive I can affect many lives, and end many lives. There are many other issues that should be considered, like sex education classes, laws that make the men equally responsible for the pregnancy and eventual child. You have to stop a problem before it begins. You would have less abortion if men knew the implications. Ther3e is no way that abortion will end legal or not. I would take my girls across the border and risk arrest to get them one if thats what they want.

All criminal acts can be justified from the perspective that "it does not affect anyones life but my own" when the victim is dead.

Again Stephan, I appreciate your beliefs for Prolife. There are many other things as I mentioned to Rogelio that we allow that kill the innocent - alcohol, drugs, physical abuse, guns, and on and on. This issue has turned us all against each other, each trying to make the other out to be wrong and to believe in their views. We should accept that we all have our own beliefs and try to work together to help the women who find themselves pregnant - from molested children to rape victims to the unmarried find a way, whether it be your views the prolife or ours of choice. Um, Choicers like myself are prolifers, we just believe that it should be up to the individual to choose. It may not be what one feels is right but as an American and a believer in Christ I have to allow the women their own choice, under the free will that God has given us. I believe nonpartisan as I believe Jesus to be, I believe that I dont have to agree with someone to work with them to make change. Remember divided we fail. But why is it ok to allow other things that take innocent life and not others? Abortion is taking a "life" that is yet to be - this is going to get me in trouble here- a life that isnt even conscience of its existance, where all of what I mentioned takes innocent life that has lived. Look at the cases of abuse in single parent homes, or young parent homes, look at the cases of the "unaborted" that grow to live the same life. We are growing up with generations of kids who live off of the state. How is that going to affect the future economy? There is too much to consider and certainly many more important issues to consider. We need to protect the children that are already here. Advocate against child abuse or pedofilia (spelling?). Advocate for easier adoption of children. Advocate for children that are older to be adopted. Protect those that are already here, that is being prolife. What makes you think that a rape victim or a girl molested by a teacher, or uncle or father, arent innocent victims? Whos protecting them? Or how about people like myself who do use contraception and it still fails? There is too much to consider. Show some compasion . It doesnt make you less of a conservative if you have compassion. If letting your heart die is what makes one a conservative, then one I will never be. True Christians should have no political agenda, but we do. Dont punish women for this. Ultimately this is the end result.

I see. So a woman should be prepared to feed, shelter, clothe, educate, care for, and protect a child every time she has a sexual encounter, correct?

Hmmm. Just wondering if this applies to men also or do you see this as strictly a woman's problem?

If every sexual encounter came with that heavy responsibility, as you suggest, I don't think we'd have to worry about abortions OR births.

Boy did you hit the nail on the head!!

And I think that's called the death penalty, if I'm not mistaken. What a hyprocritical country this is.

What of the basic right of life on the potential mother? We need to protect the children who are already here! Those who have their pets spayed or neutered are denying the animal their basic right to life. There are no guarantees in life. The death penalty or anyother punishment hasnt stopped crime. Hence overturning Roevwade will NOT end abortion. As long as the men responsible are left without any type of accountability for the pregnancy, they will continue to rape, molest and have sex with as many women as they can. Shes pregnant? well thats her problem not his...thats a thought we have to change. MAKE GETTING A WOMAN PREGNANT AGAINST HER WILL OR OUT OF WEDLOCK PUNISHABLE. I can bet my life that legislation such as that will NEVER happen. Women will continue to bear the burden of mens sexual urges. SO as long as women bear the burden they also bear the right to choose how to best deal with that burden.

You're comparing the execution of rapists, murders, and other reprobates and unborn children with no hesitation?

Wow.

Contrary to what women may think, you should NOT be entitled to do what you want with an unborn baby because it's a "mistake" by making arguably a much bigger one.

Incest, rape, and pregnancy-related health risks are one thing...making it a deferred version of birth control is quite another. If you can't see that simple fact through whatever prism you look through, you are a piece of work (and that's not a compliment).

Hi ANGRY
Ive heard that alot - that Im a piece of work - but in many different ways. I get that alot. :) I dont take it as an insult either. Not all prochoicers believe in all abortions. I dont. As I have had one I would love to speak at schools about what its like to help the girls understand that because they are the ones left with the results of a sex act they need to be the ones to advocate for themselves. I would rather there not be sex before marriage, but come on, its going to happen. I would like the girls to know that though it is an option it isnt as easy as they may think it is. It was a horrible horrible experience and except for my miscarriage at 21 weeks and my husband telling me he filed for divorce, it was the worst day of my life. I havent really talked about it until my website project last year and it was 15+ years ago...actually closer to 20 years. I still think what I said above - make it p;unishable to get a woman/girl pregnant against her will or out of wedlock. I dont see an abortion as being a bigger mistake. I was told by my boyfreind that he wasnt ready for a kid (which is aways seen as a responsible thing for a male to say) and made arrangements for me to "get it taken care of". I was in love so I did it. Everyone looked at him as being responsible for not continueing the pregnancy while looking and treating me as if I were some cheap wh**e and I was called a murderer. it wasnt easy to decide that. But to think of my life and what it wouldve been had I had the baby. ANd we used contraception. We were responible. it still happened. I know tht no one could tell by looking at me that I had an abortion. But if I stayed pregnant and gave it up, people would regularly ask me Hows the baby. I had to weight out alot before agreeing to the procedure. I also have a medical condition that requires strong medication, the doctor told us of all the complications that could occur and we were scared. I dont at all agree with the use of abortion as birth control (though thats pretty much what we did) and again its not so much that as allowing someone the right to tiehr own life. Call it murder or what ever you want, unless you are directly affected by a womans abortion it really has no direct affect on your life other than upseting you that we think women should have a choice. Its not my choice shes making. Its not affecting my life. I cant walk by someone and just know that they have had one unless they tell me they did. If you really care about someone - firend family co worker, church member, whatever - and you really think they are a good genuine person, are you really going to turn you back on that relationship if they tell you that they are prochoice or have had an abortion? I hope you say no. I dont agree with abortion, its awful. I agree with a woman/girl chosing how her life is going to be lived. And I will support anyone having to face such a terrible decision. And I do it because I am to "love my neighbor as I love myself". Again ANGRY, thank you for your comments. I respect your views and understand your resoning behind them. Im cool with that. I am a piece of work, you're right. Ive often wondered if my purpose in life is to create waves. LOL I like to challenge and question and I make many people angry. Im kinda used to that. Im really quite a nice person. I dont plan to change the way I am, I just want to make a difference. Been good debating with you.

Had alot of type - os. Am really tired, and am normally a great speller. Excuse the errors and dont use them to judge my intellegence.

Angry, who are you kidding? We've killed innocent people through our death penalty system, we've killed innocent people through our wars, we've killed innocent people through our pharmaceuticals, we've killed innocent people through our energy plants, for God's sake - and we've seen unwanted, neglected, and abused children become lifelong criminals who commit the very crimes you mentioned above. That's one of the things that drives me crazy about people like you. The "sanctity" of human life apparently only comes into play when it comes to a woman's choice in regard to taking on the lifelong responsibility of caring for another human being. I'm sure you're the same angry guy who would be screaming "death to abortionists", right?

As a christian i base all of my views on my beliefs....without them what are we left with? Although I do not consider abortion a religious issue..it is an ETHICS issue! I am curious though..as a Jew..what do you believe God's stance is on this subject?

I agree. I have yet to find a bible passage even refering to the act of abortion. I know the ones that the Christian prolifers use, but it doesnt refer to the act of "ending a life" as it has been said. I believe in the end it is between the woman and God. He will be the one we have to answer to. TM where are your ethics based on? Mine are on my faith. So it is a religious issue.

TM:

You're saying you cannot find any reason to dislike or even hate abortion without bringing religion into the discussion? I see.

Terri:

You do realize that the Bible was based in a time period about 2,000~ years ago, right? You think they could do a true medical abortion back in that era and the patient survive?

I agree that, in the end, all of our morality is judged by God...not man...but the Bible mentions pretty bluntly that we should not be tolerant of sin. I can't stop women from having abortions if I don't agree with it and I would never try or impose my views...but I will certainly use a person's viewpoint on the subject to choose who I associate with and I don't give a wit what anyone thinks of that.

Im not sure what educational level you think prochoicers are. Im very well educated in the teachings of the bible and have taken many classes -college and church - on the history and the meaning of the Bible. If we are going to use the excuse "it was based...2000 yrs ago" then what does that say for the meaning of the Bible? That we shouldnt believe in even Jesus or God because it was not written in our time. The Bible is the basis of all Judeo/christian beliefs. there would be no religion as we know it if it werent for the Bible. Im not talking of a "medical abortion". Im talking of women who took herbs that were poisonous to get them to miscarry. Im a little more well read than you have given me credit for.

I am moderately tolerant of sin, just as Jesus is. Jesus taught us to pray," forgive us our tresspases as we forgive those who trespass against us" and to "forgive others as God has forgiven you". I am a belieeer in the death penalty, thats in the Bible too. I have friends that arent believers that regularly condemn me. But I love them and continue to pray for their redemption. I had an abortion. During the procedure feeling the excrutiating pain as if I were being butchered on the table and knowing I deserved it, I begged God for forgiveness. All of us are sinners, whether it be our actions or our thoughts. But Jesus said when he was reproached for eating with sinners and tax collectors, that thats who he was sent to save. He was sent to die for us sinners, so that we may be forgiven. Thats cool that you choose to not associate with others not like yourself. I think its bad and narrowminded and certainly not something Jesus would do but thats my oppinoin. We are told to not forget the poor, sick, homebound, prisoners. it shouldnt matter what one believes or if they believe as you do, it only matters that you believe. Being angry and shutting people out isnt being a peacemaker or a preacher of Gods good news. It turns people off and thats not at all what Jesus came here for. If I can make others rethink their actions or thoughts, and not push my views on them and it makes them think then maybe they will see the beauty of Gods light. Now if we could go back to the values of sex is an act saved for marriage, then all would be great in the world. But then you'll get those that will fight to say that they shouldnt be forced to marry. My p;oint is that there are too many views and opinions and like Jesus we should be open to acceptance. I have to quote a really cool bumper sticker I saw - "God loves everyone- no exceptions." Thank you ANGRY CONSERVATIVE, both our post names will bring many bad opinions. I respect what you say. I advocate for everyone to stand by their convictions and not back down from what they think is right - even in the face of adveersity. Even if they dont agree with me. I dont care if anyone agrees with me, but I do enjoy speaking to others "on the other side". It helps me to learn more. I hope you arent too angry. Im not a liberal but Im not conservative either. Im all over the board. thank you for your comments.

that is such an unfair thing to say to her. you dont know her situation, or if she was mentally or emotionally capable of it. SHE HERSELF WAS A CHILD AND WAS RAPED!!!! If abortion is murder then a miscarriage is manslaughter. AND the man responsible for the pregnancy is an accesory to murder.

CJ - DONT YOU THINK on it. Not for one minute. Im so sorry about what happened to you. And Im so sorry that you had to be forced to make such a decision. Ive had an abortion, and it was the single most horrible experience I have ever had. May God bless you and ease your heart. He knows what you went though, dont you think on it for one minute. ok?

Ditto CJ, to what Terri said. You ain't goin' to hell, no matter what the bible-thumpers tell you. You did what was right for you at the time, given your choices. Also, given the fact that you are still paying the emotional price for another's crime, no one should dare sit in judgement of you, unless they are ready to be judged themselves.

I'll bet most of the "abortion is a women's right" people have a big problem with the death penalty! You are comparing apples to oranges. and the scenario that you are talking about is few and far between. If you take pitty on a ten year old mentally handicapped child who comits a crime, how can you have no feeling for an innocent child, and don't be deceived by thinking that all abortions are perfomed on baby's in their first trimester who are plagued by some malfornation either.

then why is it when a woman has a child the fact of wether or not the father wants to participate in its life is of no relevance to the father paying child support! When the mother wants the support of the father then she cries out that he has just as much obligation to support that child as she does. If your view is correct then we cannot make father's step up to the plate!?! Fathers are to insignificant to choose life for their child but they have to pay up regardless!?!?!?!?