Do you have confidence that Florida officials will be able to avoid a repeat of the voting problems that occurred in 2000?

Yes I agree, and I believe the electoral vote system should be updated as well. I agree that it is totally unacceptable and one of the reasons people don't get out to vote, because of flaws in the system such as this leading them to believe their votes really don't count, so why vote. They should have had this issue taken care of years ago, so people can have faith in the system and the candidates are safeguarded from both sides.

To me not voting is just plain lazy. If you have no vote, you have no voice. After 2000 people should realize that your vote DOES count.

I agree this whole issue is unacceptable. But I will say that one of the reasons people don't vote is the Electoral System. I voted as a democrat in the hardcore republican state of South Carolina in 2004 and many of the Dem leaning people I know told me they didn't bother to vote because the assumed their vote wouldn't make any difference since the GOP would almost assuredly have the majority and therefore the whole state. In a age of supercomputers and worldwide instant communication, a systems like the Electorate is not just outdated, it is ancient. I say let EVERY vote count (i.e. a POPULAR VOTE) in a country that prides itself on being open for all its citizens.

I agree. Americans have learned some valuable lessons in the last 8 years.

1. Remove the electoral system and allow every vote to count. A GOP in California should have their vote counted as should a Democrat in Mississippi.

2. Add education as a qualification to the Presidency and VP. If someone doesn't have the intelligence and discipline to achieve a "B" average in college they will not have the intelligence and discipline to lead the Nation.

3. The debt an Administration runs up is theirs at the end of their term. Our country went from a projected surplus to being Trillions of dollars in debt. I think we should hand Bush and Cheney a bill. They can pay it themselves or beg the money from their buddies.

LU-404506
2. Add education as a qualification to the Presidency and VP. If someone doesn't have the intelligence and discipline to achieve a "B" average in college they will not have the intelligence and discipline to lead the Nation
3. The debt an Administration runs up is theirs at the end of their term. Our country went from a projected surplus to being Trillions of dollars in debt. I think we should hand Bush and Cheney a bill. They can pay it themselves or beg the money from their buddies.
...................................................................................................................................................
I so agree with this. We have almost completed our experiment with the "not so smart bully" and once should be enough to anybody! It's appalling that the American voter would elect a person to the highest office in our country while most of us own dogs or cats that are smarter.

Agree, however, people with little education will not understand this. They simply follow the leader blindly and make decisions based on pre-existing emotional views. The economic situation facing our nation is so complex, we cannot leave its resolution in the hands of poorly educated people.

hi, dian larkin here different name on this computer -- i'm not good with names and passwords on the 10million sites we have to register and sign into. i can't buy anthing on amazon b/c for the life of me i can't remember the name or password and i get frustrated and go to borders

ANYHOO it's unacceptable and appalling that we once again have to worry about an election being stolen by the republican plants in corrput states

please everyone write to the powers at be in these corrupt republican states and demand honesty -- insist we will not tolerate their dishonesty this time

Republicans never change their tactics - and in this instance why should they -- it worked once, everyone muttered but no one did anything (& if 6-Pack gets her way alal muttering will cease -- she has a way of dealing with dissenters that makes me very uncomfortable).

The republicans, not the most imaginative group, have no reason to stretch themsleves to come up with a new tactic and have every reason to believe it will work again -- they are obviously already going for it

With early voting we have a chance to stop it -- write to Ohio and to Florida -- does anyone know of other states we should be watching?

Obama represents a return of BY THE PEOEPLE FOR THE PEOPLE for the people -- we need to live up to this opportunity as we may not get another one soon

TAKE BACK OUR COUNTRY!!!!!!!!!

write to these evil people.

Stealing one or two elections in America and fixin' to steal a third -- I just sayin' -- American is the home of the free and the brave right? -- it does not get much more evil than stealing elections here -- if our elections are stolen we are no longer free

i like my freedom and i like the constitution -- i'd like to keep both

our freedom comes from our voices and no where else

it was our apathy ultimately that allowed Bush to steal elections -- apathy born of watching oursleves, the majority middle class, struggle more daily; and the despair of knowing our voices were being ignored

now is our chance to take back our country and restore it to greatness and freedom

write to the representatives and courts in these states and demand honesty. Let  freedom ring.

OBAMA / BIDEN '08

I also agree with "my friends" (little Chaos McCain joke) above

I have been saying all along that our leaders need to be our best educated, not our least educated

Our best people, not our worst who, every day, a new scandal a new dishonesty emerges

Our brightest not our dimmest -- brightest / dimmest both in terms of thought process ability and in terms of an ability to unite and not divide, an ability to reach across the aisle in a real sense

Obama is already lining his cabinet with the sharpest minds and best experts on both sides of the aisle

meanwhile both sides of the aisle ingore McCain -- possibly b/c he is so unstable and so rage-filled, ya think just sayin'

oh but I forget myself -- if McCain is elected 6-Pack will 'run the Senate' so cooperation will be mandatory.....

We need a builder, not a destroyer, someone who offers hope --- not fear, hatred and negativity -- that is ONLY Obama between the two candidates, and the people know it!

We need our most flexible, most thoughtful, most open minds; not our most rigid, erratic, impulsive and smallest minds.

Our most expansive and inclusive philosophers; not our most entitled, our most the-laws-are-for-little-people philosophers, say no to neo-Nazis and Imelda Marcos' wannabes whose ultimate concern is themselves and their own agendas -- say no to those who believe the end, their end, justifies their means

I would go further than LU and add to the grade achievement requirement a graduate degree requirement. I don't want people like Chaos McCain who only graduated at all, at the bottom of his class, due to family ties - crashed a bunch of planes and never attained a graduate degree -- or 6-Pack with her barely earned third tier college degree, no graudate degree, and her high school educated husband (altho I have not seen the diploma -- while the repubs are looking for Obama's birth certificate can they find Todd's high school diploma?) -- an uneducated husband who co-governs with her as her undercover thug.

I'll vote for the constitutional law professor thanks -- but I want my vote to count!!!!!

OBAMA / BIDEN '08

I think there should be no voting glitches because like a product, the people lose confidence and if Florida is the only one with issues when it comes to their machines having "glitches" someone should be held accountable for the loss of confidence in the voting system and be penalized in some way...Diebold?...state officials?...both?

you are both right -- write to the officials and write to diebold too and demand honesty -- let them know they will be held accountable

and VOTE do not stay home for fear your vote will not be counted -- this year more than any other VOTE

and please please please do not write in your neighboor or a third candidate -- unless you are ok with your vote going, in effect, to McCain / Palin -- in which case that is obviously your right as an American, just be aware that you will effectively be voting McCain and Palin into office

OBAMA / BIDEN '08

First, Florida is not the only state that has had it's votes stolen by corrupt Diebold, and other Republican controlled voting machines, see the ongoing litigation of the 2004 Ohio vote-stealing and machine tampering.

Second, I don't know how we will ever get fair election results without doing away with the electoral vote.  Everyone's vote should count - popular vote would reduce the ability of partisan IT people and poll workers to manipulate the votes, especially if the pre-election polling was done away with.  With no idea of the percentages of supporters for either candidate, hackers would not have margins to use in corrupting the vote.

Think about what a difference place the country and world would be today if Gore and the Democratic party had not buckled under in 2000.

Just a guess but:

Gore would have read the memo titled "Ben Laden to strike the US".

Gore would have tracked Ben Laden since the Gore family does not have ties to the Ben Laden family going back 3 generations.

No Iraq war.

Alternative energy plans would be in place by now instead of "drill baby drill" chants.

And I'm guessing that we wouldn't be having the financial meltdown because the US dollar would still be strong around the world.

The last 8 years have been similar to "It's a wonderful life" if Jimmy Stewart had killed himself.

And doesn't Cheney remind you of the evil man in the movie???

It would have been different all right.

Gore would be preaching about global warming while flying his private jet everywhere (which puts out four times the emissions as a normal plane).

We would have been taken over by Iraq or whoever else wants to destroy this country because Gore would have been too afraid to do anything.

We would have a complete financial meltdown worse than what is going on now because he would have taxed the heck out of everyone and we would all be waiting six months to a year for a doctor's appointment because of universal health care.

Congress would still have the worst rating in history (dems are majority) because they would just be lap dogs for him.

I can't wait for "An American Carol" to come out that makes fun of Michael Moore and Rosie O'Donnel, it is going to be great!!!

Oh please, if I wanted to hear the garbage spewed by the right wing talking machine, I would listen to Rush and Hannity. Do you have anything new to add?

@contesa

"Gore would be preaching about global warming while flying his private jet everywhere (which puts out four times the emissions as a normal plane)." - I think you were trying to make a point here, but you didn't. First, as president, AG wouldn't be flying his private jet, he would be flying in Airforce 1; the same plane that GW flies around in today. Second, if AG were president, he would have put in place many polices that would be helping our environment.

"We would have been taken over by Iraq or whoever else wants to destroy this country because Gore would have been too afraid to do anything." - Wow, what a silly talking point. Do you really think Iraq could have taken over America? Do you really think that, if we were attacked, Al Gore would do nothing? If so, I suggest seeking psychiatric help. But we all know why conservatives keep parroting this nonsense; if you repeat a lie long enough, simpler people will believe it.

"we would all be waiting six months to a year for a doctor's appointment because of universal health care. " - Another silly talking point. Please explain how changing who pays for medical care will affect waiting times. Universal Health Care plans don't call for firing any doctors or closing any doctor's offices. How would waiting time increase?

You other points are too silly to even garner a response.

good post LU! And yes criminal Cheney is like the evil man in the movie

and yet McCain / Palin make Bush / Cheney look like boy scouts.....

OBAMA / BIDEN '08

That's a good ideal.

How sad is it that we have to go back to the 70's to find an honest man.

The paper ballot backup is a good ideal. It wouldn't have to be the entire ballot, just the Presidential vote which would be easy to read and calculate.

we can't give up we have to start writing to everyone and anyone KNOW demanding an honest election and letting them know they will be accountable

"We'll never know exactly what Gore would have achieved had he not been robbed of that election. BUT IT WOULD HAVE BEEN GREATLY MORE REWARDING THAN THE DEPRAVITY THAT DID GET INTO THE WHITE HOUSE. We will never know. But one thing is sure it was the biggest heist ever perpetrated on this country."

I think it would have been greatly more damaging. There's no way the poor and middle class could afford someone like Gore in office, who holds no understanding of the economy and believes that he can take whatever he wants from businesses and magically not have an impact to everyone else. Of course, the accusation that it was a heist is still nothing more than an opinion. After recounts and evidence displayed over and over and over again, the winner was chosen. Just because the person you supported did not win does not automatically make it a heist. Your side could have been the biggest cheaters for all you know. The evidence was all measured and the decision was made based on the evidence, that's it. Calling it a heist isn't going to change the evidence and make it side with you. You're showing the very problem Florida has. People there are under the foolish belief there that the opinions of one person must reflect the opinion of the entire country, and these people speak as if they represent everyone. I had never heard so many cries of "Americans want this with this guy in charge." Since the country is fairly well divided, it's safe to assume that there's nobody who can stand there and say that America agrees with him/her. When the majority doesn't agree with you, it doesn't make them wrong or mean the other side cheated.

Beckwolf:

Gore would have read the memo "Ben Laden to strike the US". How about that for starters???

If Bush and Cheney have such an "understanding of the economy" Why is the country trillions of dollars in debt and begging for more???

If Gore had been President for the last 8 years we'd have alternative energy by now.

Yes, Robert.  All of the key electoral vote states have problems - especially, Ohio.  An IT person with the McCain Campaign is being depo'ed as we speak on his involvement in the 2004 vote tampering in Ohio.  Read this:

(at the end of the article are links to other sources, however, I never put too much credit in information obtained from blogs sites - verify all sources with legitimate sources)

 Last Friday, a federal court judge in Cleveland, Ohio, ordered Michael Connell, an information-technology consultant to the McCain '08 campaign, to give a deposition in a court proceeding. Mr. Connell, whose firm, GovTech Solutions, built Ohio's 2004 election results computer network, was in a position to have knowledge about the alleged manipulation of electronic voting results in that presidential contest (a technique known as "flipping") in order to switch the winner in Ohio from Sen. John Kerry to President Bush. The deposition is scheduled to take place today, November 3, one day before the 2008 general election.

    Connell is a former associate of Karl Rove, who is believed by those familiar with the events in question to have engaged in witness intimidation to prevent testimony about what happened in Ohio in 2004. They also believe that IT companies associated with the Republican Party have redeveloped the capacity to manipulate electronic voting results in Tuesday's election, both within Ohio and outside, including Pennsylvania and other key battleground states such as Colorado and New Mexico. One such firm, Triad GSI, is managing voter registration databases in 55 of Ohio's 88 counties and is hosting 25 of those databases.

    All this has led to speculation that the McCain campaign's insistence that they can win Pennsylvania, Ohio, and other states, despite being (in some places, significantly) behind in most of the polls, could be prompted by having been informed about planned cyber interference with electronic voting results. The reality is that a successful cyber attack only requires a few skilled IT experts with an in-depth understanding of digital security. Election returns in many states are presently emailed from local databases for statewide consolidation, without even the standard safeguards routinely used by banks and corporations. In other words, voting data can be relatively easily hacked.

    The lawsuit in Ohio is being pursued as a violation of voting rights laws, and it claims that Connell witnessed a "kingpin" cyber attack on electronic voting results in several Ohio counties, the consequence of which was to give the 2004 national election to Bush (had Kerry won Ohio, he would have won the election). Serious statistical anomalies in several Ohio counties' election returns, as well as a shocking disconnect between exit polls and actual results in '04 in Ohio, have never been explained. Despite being urged by his running mate John Edwards to do so, Kerry declined to take legal action in Ohio.

    The suspicions by some Democratic operatives about impending Republican interference with electronic voting in 2008 have been further fueled by the sustained bellicosity of Republican spokespeople about voter registration errors by ACORN, believing that exaggerations of the ACORN problem have been encouraged by those involved in the Republicans' own covert e-voting fraud in order to distract the media from recent news about the possibility of this far graver threat to the integrity of American elections.

    The general news media are doing a serious disservice to the cause of vigilance about honest elections by having, so far, neglected the case involving one of the McCain campaign's consultants on digital technology. It would be a travesty of historic proportions if Sen. Barack Obama won the national popular vote for president by a large margin, but lost the Electoral College narrowly because of electronic voting manipulation in two or three states.

    The current legal action will obviously not be resolved in time to determine the possible extent of any effort to manipulate electronic voting in 2008. But poll workers, campaign activists and local supporters of Senator Obama can do a number of practical things in order to identify and compile evidence of anomalies which may signal digital manipulation of election returns:

    1. Local activists and lawyers in any state where the vote appears close should demand that county voting officials where electronic voting systems are used should, if possible, unplug their servers from the Internet and phone in their results, and otherwise never permit external IT consultants to have unsupervised physical access to hard drives after vote counting commences.

    2. Screen captures of all television-reported exit poll numbers on all networks should be obtained for every state for which they are reported, to later compare them to actual vote tallies when they are reported - and the networks should assign a staff person to perform such checks. Any significant deviations from statewide exit polls in counties that don't have demographic factors to account for such differences should be flagged for later investigation.

    3. Vote totals for presidential and down-ballot candidates should be compared, precinct-by-precinct and county-by-county, to see if there are strange disparities. In 2004, a Democratic candidate for a judgeship in Ohio mysteriously received tens of thousands more votes than John Kerry (even though many voters never bother to vote for down-ballot candidates). This was a statistical improbability of enormous magnitude (no disrespect meant to the judge).

    4. Vote totals in safe Republican counties should be compared to the past two election cycles, to see whether any sky-high turnout is historically unprecedented and therefore cause for suspicion. That is what happened in several Republican-dominated counties in Florida in 2004. Election monitors should also watch the traffic at the polling places in Republican precincts, and maintain careful records, as a way to gauge the honesty of later claims about the turnout there.

    These steps are necessary to facilitate the discovery of any circumstantial or direct evidence of possible manipulation of electronic-voting returns, which would be sufficient to enable immediate legal action to prevent certification of election results. In turn, that would permit time for a full forensic investigation. Additionally, many citizens' groups are preparing calls to action should legal remedies to any attempted vote interference falter or be obstructed.

    There is ample cause for general alarm and for the measures we've recommended, in what has emerged from the ongoing court action in Ohio. If evidence of electronic-voting manipulation follows the election tomorrow, it must be pursued regardless of who wins. And if the campaigns involved do not challenge the results where this evidence emerges, or if local and state authorities do not cooperate to resolve these questions, it is certain that a tidal wave of protest will develop. Nonviolent resistance was used successfully by African-Americans to win their civil rights in the 1960s, and earlier by American women to win the right to vote. Millions would not hesitate to use it again, if there is evidence of a stolen presidential election.

    The first Democratic president, Thomas Jefferson, said that "eternal vigilance is the price of liberty." The failure of the Bush administration to permit systematic reform of this nation's elections infrastructure so as to make it impossible for these manipulations to occur is bad enough. Even worse would be to refuse to take seriously the possibility that these abuses could alter or adulterate the results of what may well be the most important presidential election of our lifetimes.

    For more information on electronic voter interference and the above-cited legal action see:

    www.bradblog.com/?p=6600

    www.velvetrevolution.us/#071808a

    http://thejournal.epluribusmedia.net/index.php/state-news/ohio-news/200-ohio-

    www.alternet.org/democracy/100881/gop_consultant_subpoenaed_in_case_alleging_tampering_with_2004_election/

    www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&articleId=9118204

    http://harpers.org/archive/2005/08/0080696

    www.nytimes.com/2005/02/03/opinion/03thu2.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

    www.dkosopedia.com/wiki/Academic_Papers_on_2004_Election_Results

It seems you're the only one who thinks there was no problem in Florida in the past. Perhaps you missed what actually happened? Maybe you missed the fact that it was the first time in history that the Supreme Court was called upon to decide an election?

"some poor want McCain because they believe you have to support business growth instead of attack it to bring jobs and stability to the poor and middle class." - McCain is definitely for supporting business; not growth as you say, but lobbyists and CEOs. You seem to think that McCain's ideas for business development are good ideas. I must point out that he is in favor of deregulation, as shown by his voting history. If deregulation is such a good idea, why are we facing the worst economy since the Great Depression? McCain says getting rid of the rules is a good idea for business growth because all businesses want to make money and grow the economy, the rules just get in the way. That's like saying we should get rid of the Air Traffic controllers because all the airplanes want to get where they're going as fast as possible. Both of these ideas leave out the human nature problem; most people (airplanes, CEOs, ...) will do what's best for themselves.

Chaos McCain himself hollered from the rooftops that he is DEREGULATE McCAIN and that he VOTED WITH BUSH 90% OF THE TIME MORE THAN MOST OF HIS OWN PARTY DID!

good for you Chaos McCain

McCain / Palin assume Americans are really stupid and apathetic

Obama assumes Americans are really smart and willing to take back their country

WHO'S RIGHT AMERICA?!

OBAMA / BIDEN '08

Perhaps we can organize non-partisan groups to sit outside the polling office and record the votes on laptops. Human error and being off by a few votes isn't going to matter, but a large discrepancy in the results would show that the machines are rigged.

And the Diebold company executives need to be informed up front that they will go to prison for voter tampering. Let's face it: People usually only commit crimes because they think they will get away with it.

It's a month before the election and we're still trying to "fix" the voting process?? I have to wonder what is wrong with the Democratic party that they allow these things to happen. Then I remember that the Democratic politicians are wealthy and a Republican win is actually to their benefit financially.

Oh, please!!!!!!!!!!!!! Diebold, ES&S....none of them are perpetuating voter fraud. There might be a problem with machines but those can almost always be traced back to a mistake made by the local election board in programing and/or preparing them. If there had been voter fraud by any of the voting machine companies they would have been found out and convicted. Besides, most of the voter fraud from machines comes from lever machines. They can be easily "fixed" so the count comes out the way someone want's it to and they have NO paper trail....but places like New York and Chicago are still using them! Please...use your head for something besides a hat rack!!!!

Right ....found out and convicted? You mean like Abramoff was found out? DeLay was found out? Ney was found out? Libby? Meiers and Rove who refuse to testify into a congressional investigation?

Face facts. The Republicans headed by the former skanko Young Republicans like Ralph Reed, Norquist and Rove are unwilling to end their power freak games until another puppet like Bush, in the form of Palin, gets the White House. And, get it she will. McCain will not last 5 months into his presidency and the RNC will swill at history's trough for scheming to get Palin, a nobody from no where, Republican pit-Bush, to the presidency.

Repulsive Republican voter fraud? In a state that won Bush the election thanks to his brother? Another Bush, another bank bailout and another fraudulent election coming. Republicans don't care about country. They only care about winning so they can power freak it up for another 8 years.

Found out and convicted?

Then why are Bush & Cheney both not in jail and disbarred?

OBAMA / BIDEN '08